Carbon bikes will multiply. Look at prices today, so many low end bikes are now in carbon. Why buy a heavier aluminium bike with weldings made by welders that made the Titanic. Carbon bikes are nicer looking and will become cheaper than aluminium with automation and volume production. Steel bikes only exists because small bespoke shops find it easier to weld. Aluminium bikes exist because small productions in Asia can produce them by hand without expensive equipment.
Your next bike is alloy because of the technical improvements and aerodynamics (I didn't watch the video yet). My next bike is alloy because I am poor. We are not the same.
Hehe. For every day use I will always look for alloy bikes when people ask me for advice. Unless the person is loaded with cash and can afford 2 bikes, go for the durable/rugged one before dumping cash into a hobby.
The advent of wider tires has made a big difference. For most riders the most compelling reason for carbon over aluminum was comfort and still lightweight. Now that people are riding around on 32 mm tires lightweight aluminum isn't uncomfortable.
Man, aluminum with carbon wheels and 25 is what I ride now and feels amazing, better than carbon bikes that I had, and the bike is 12 y.o., ok I’m in search of a new bike, but this was my first and I still think is very good, I’ll buy a new bike only because it is rim brake and I want a disc brake one 🤷♂️
To me the difference between my Toray T-800 carbon bike my lugged Reynolds 853 bike and a standard trash Aluminum frame is massive on 32mm tires. Don't kid yourself that you are getting the full ride quality of lugged 853 on your 32mm roadie tires, you aren't until you raise the size to 40mm which feels like a tank and not a road bike anymore.
One day I'll give my old aluminium Trek 1000 (that has become an ornament) a try with just lower tyre pressures. It did feel a firm ride. Maybe that's all it needed.
That was my first thought as well (looks like a battery). I sometimes worry people might think my Cervélo is an e-bike because of the é logo and the large bottom bracket shell.
@@ukestjohnnope. orbea already have ebikes with the battery integrated inside the downtube (i have one), so there's no way they would change that design and expose the battery on the outside like this and make it look uglier.
Love the Endurace AL I bought last year to replace my 30 year old Cannondale R300 (still hanging on wall, though). I lost 7 kg since March so no need for carbon fiber.
The aluminium discussion reminds me of when Specialized did a limited release Allez Smartweld S-Works version that was super light and performed amazing in sprints.
My brother's owned one for about a year. He sold it. He didn't like it. And he isn't a carbon fanboy. His only carbon bike is a gravel bike that never leaves the trainer. He prefers his titanium gravel bike.
I have a Specialized Shiv alu 2009 the only year when alu was the material. Stiff as crazy and non functional SRAM 2x front. The reason why SRAM pushes 1x.
@@JanneRasanen2 I agree with you wrt SRAM FDs-- as I imagine 2010 Andy Schleck does! Had early force and it shifted great in the back, but yes the reason why SRAM pushes 1x so hard is because they never figured out 2x in the first place.
I currently ride carbon fiber, but like many other cyclists my dream bike is a custom titanium bike. Custom metal bikes can be perfectly suited to your size, locally manufactured, and they look beautiful. Someday, that's what I'll ride.
@@gcntechLOL. Do you think anyone over the age of 30 will wake up and say “hey, I want to go pro” and be immediately picked up by a team? Or anyone lacking a room-sized ego will spend an absurd amount of money on a bike whose potential greatly exceeds their physical abilities? This past time attracts a lot of poseurs and wannabes, but never enough to satisfy corporate appetites.
I have a Cannondale CAAD13 Disk 105 . . . pretty basic aluminum alloy "race bike" . . . Have about 8,000 miles on it and it's been terrific. Keeps up in the paceline when we're running along at 22-and even up 24-25MPH and handles very well. I weigh @ 170 pounds. I am a crappy climber, but I can't blame that on the bike :) I think the best upgrade that I can add to this bike, to improve performance, would be some nice carbon wheels . . . I think they'll make a nice difference. Happy riding.
My cannondale card 9 with full dura ace and an older set of American classic carbon fiber rim brake wheels weighs 16 lbs. max tire width 25mm tires running around 90 lbs pressure makes it comfortable and lighter than some guys I ride with with carbon fiber frame sets. I do wish I could put 28s onto it but it wouldn’t move🤪
You know what's cool about metal bikes? They're quiet. You don't really notice how loud your carbon bike is until you hop on something else, but it's really awesome. If you are out on a nice fall day, no wind, cruising on a long ride, with a waxed chain no less, you hear nothing, your bike just goes. Then when you hop back on your wizz bang bike, it's clunk clunk rattle rattle and you hear all of it. I hop back and forth with my N+1 collection and that's the main thing.
Yay, my track bike just got a Supernice! And I don't think Ollie even realized I'm the guy who sent him the Shimano 100 book way back in Tech Show 203.
Thanks for finally saying it Ollie, our local landfills have more carbon frames in them than even your local dentists garage, amazed but not surprised that governments aren't remotely interested in doing anything about it, a lot of people have forgotten that bicycles are supposed to be a better alternative to other forms of transport
@@ZebraLemur what nonsense. A carbon frame lasting or being used for 20 years? Unlikely. Also solid waste per person - most of this is either biodegradable or recyclable. And of course metal framed bikes get recycled if they’re taken to a recycling facility.
With Aluminium theres a possibility with hydroformed tubing. You can make them look modern and like a smooth carbon frame.Price for performance Aluminum i can see making a comeback. Steel its harder for me to see unless theres a resurgance of people wanting the look of an old school round tube bike. Titanium is to expensive and much more expensive to produce a bike frame. Being a steel bike lover. Id love to see a comeback.
My Fairlight Strael rides brilliantly and is nearly as light as my carbon bike. A truly modern steel bike with a design that gets the best out of Reynolds 853 - the tubing has super thin walls, with the chain stays being hydro formed.
Oh I've known for years now that my next bike WILL 100% NOT be carbon :D It will be titanium :) Carbon bikes are for athletes and people interested in racing, and I'm neither :)
do it. I bought a Baum Titanium bike 2 years ago after being sick of poorly made carbon frames that fracture if you look at them with bespoke parts that are out of stock after 5 years. Best decision ever.
I bought a TI bike and love it. I added allot of additional parts for my comfort and suggest you seek excellence on your own terms. You will be glad you did
My last new bike was aluminium. Priced right and performs fine. Unlikely to explode on a trail. Perfect. I have a fleet of steel vintage bikes as well. Ageless and lovely to ride. Who will be riding 45 year old carbon bikes in years to come.
I chose a titanium bike (VA Moots) over a carbon fiber one due to the vibration-dampening characteristics of the metal. It does have a carbon fork and the recovery time after a long ride is less than carbon or aluminium.
I like aluminum bikes a lot. But The durability of carbon isn't all that low (I've crashed carbon bikes numerous times with only superficial damage) AND they can be repaired quite easily/inexspensively.
I think the big plus for manufacturers and bike teams is that carbon frames very quick to make and very quick to change so for pro riding and industry carbon makes a lot of sense
@@Foxtrottangoabc No they aren't. Most carbon frames are made in a mould so the mould has to be made first and this will cost thousands. This is why most custom bikes are metal (quicker and cheaper to make and easy to adapt geometry).
Once you have a mould and a supply chain you can produce more bikes, and the labour involved is more economical, it's still a skill, however laying sheets of carbon and setting in resin is easier than welding and cutting. A lot of large brands, even on their high end bikes are also sourcing frames from all over the place, meaning the cost for them in included into the frame, and goes down when larger orders are made ect, only those silly priced bikes have the experts in black latex gloves carefully laying each layer by hand spending weeks on end producing a single frame, the rest is automatically produced and pumped out through a rinse repeat method, carbon, ironically, is much like plastic for food in some sense.
Not sold on the service box, a perfect place to catch all the crud off the road, pros will ride what there paid to and whatever the industry wants to promote
I just started crit racing on my steel gravel bike with road tyres and I couldn't agree more about tyres changing feel more than the frame. I was planning to racing on a carbon bike but unfortunately cracked the frame. Well the crit season started so I put narrow bars on my Norco search. First race was hard, got dropped because I was on gravel tyres, second race I had 28mm race tyres with tpu tubes and finished 5th in the final sprint with the same time as the winners only held back by gearing. I am however still looking forward to a bike under 11kgs 😂.
I've been riding a fluid formed alu-alloy frame as a touring bike for 8 years now. Bombproof, light enough for an old "fred" like me and I run supple tyres on it. Super handling, easy comfy riding, carries a big load. Way cheaper than and as many brackets and bosses as any entry level steel tourer. And steel started at 3x the price when I bought this.
I have Pinarello 1992 with Campagnolo SuperRecord, Trek Alumininium frame with Shimano 105 (2010) (gone), Specialized Diverge with Shimano GRX (2022) (my daughter has it now) and custom Ti frame with SRAM XPLR. From all these bikes, the 1992 Pinarello is still AMAZING bike to ride. Feels and rides great. Is it the fastest, lightest, etc, bike? No, it is not. But it rides like a dream. I love to go for up to 20km rides on it for pure enjoyment. the custom Ti frame is designed to be single bike with two wheel-sets, one road and one gravel. The lateral stiffness is 10/10 and the vertical compliance is 6/10. With titanium and steel you can design such frame. Went with titanium frame, as from my experience with high end steel, it will last forever. Group sets change and as they age out become very expensive (I dread the moment when looking for original Campagnolo, but they look just beautiful). Now here is the most important part, 55 yo with about 87kg. Is the bike 1-2 kilo heavier or lighter, don't care much, as much I enjoy the ride and the time with the frineds out on the road. I hope to keep my custom Ti bike for next 20 years and enjoy many, many great rides
Lucky to own a Tarmac SL8 and Allez Sprint. Identical parts down to the wheels and tires. Everything besides the frame. Close my eyes, I couldn't tell you the difference.
@@TK-nc3ou placebo. Carbon bikes are being made stiffer and stiffer. You physically do not have the perceptual capability to tell the difference between NVH of frame materials when its all being swamped out by larger tire volumes.
@@cjohnson3836 I can tell the difference between carbon, steel and Alu on gigantic 35mm tires, not true. 38-40mm is where they all start to blend together like you are claiming.
@@凸Bebo凸 No, you can't. There's a million other things that are playing out. Shape of the stays. How much exposed seat post. Shape of the head tube. How much stack in spacers you are running. Handlebars. How was the steerer constructed between each fork (this even varies between carbon forks on the same frame). You very literally do not have the ability to perceive through all those difference. And the dampening/rebound of the tires (going to vary even within model) produces an effect size much larger than any of those effects. Physics is physics and neurobiology is neurobiology.
@@cjohnson3836 If you ride fixed gear it's very noticeable. Be glad you can't perceive it and can enjoy your crappy Alu bikes. It's a curse to be able to feel this stuff. You sound like you've been watching too many CYCLINGABOUT videos. That guy just wants to sell you 9000 dollar Alu bikes, don't listen to him, haha.
I just bought my first carbon bike, Otso Waheela w/shimano GRX 11 speed for $2400 because it's the 2022 model, the current year frame only is $2700. 2.1" tire clearance and just over 20lbs no complaints.
I have my steel/alloy Battaglin that I am most happy with. I am older, slower than I used to be, but that bike rides great and looks fabulous, all I want.
The only reason that most carbon fiber road bikes are so expensive is because of greedy manufacturers. They cost a small fraction to manufacture than what some brands are selling them for.
I built carbon fiber rowing shells. You would be surprised how much craftsmanship is required to build them. Bikes also require expensive molds for production.
when you buy high end sport equipment, there is often a heavy sponsorship cost added to it. When you buy tennis shoes you pay more for the pro than for the whole manufacturing of your good. Even when you buy a car, you pay more for the advertisement than for the wage of the workers making it (but still in this case the total cost is superior to the advertisement). Also small quantities have a highest manufacturing cost and a huge engineering cost by item. And at the end when you have invested a lot in sponsorship and engineering, you want something back and you milk the whales to the limit.
Just bought my new bike and its not carbon. I went for Titanium. I do a lot of bikepacking including internationally and so need something that is comfortable to ride, is less likely to be broken in transit and I also wanted a bike that will outlast me (at 54, I'm similar age to Dan Lloyd, so hopefully decades of riding left to do).
That Orbea with 105 is a fantastic deal, a serious price rollback. Ang gorgeous, too. Metal and mechanical forever, with an e-bike conversion kit on commuters, fun to have some boost with a thumb throttle. 😀
I have a carbon, aluminum, titanium & steel, the 2 I don’t see myself ever getting rid of are the Alu CAAD 10 & the Lynskey Ti. Good show today boys..!
Hope it never happens to you but I had a stressed aluminium frame and I rear ended a car. Pushed the forks out of place and bent the down tube. But the telling thing were the stress fractures you could see on that down tube.
Third try in the bike vault and now I got in … and my new Titanium Kocmo ticked all boxes. Thanks for all your work! I follow you for years now. You are supernice. And in the end my bike is supernice too. ❤ …and it is not made of carbon.
I like carbon fibre as much as anyone on my TT/Performance bike. But I have a gravel commuter that I spent most time riding and I have spent more time effort caring for it compared to my training bikes. Being able to lock it up and not dreading some bumps/knicks makes me feel like can use it as a training tool and not an expensive piece of tech. So the gravel bike has gotten upgrades like several sets of tires, detachable fenders, semi-hyraulic brakes, premium cables/housing... So for a alloy bike it is getting most of my attention 😅
I could see a major bike brand follow small builders and make a nice steel bike for two reasons: steel is still stylish. A supple steel bike that isn't overbuilt has a very nice ride quality, and can still be quite light.
I have had all those carbon bikes (buy and sell is my business). I have the latest Venge, Tarmac and supersix evo all on carbon wheels and di2. Now At 34 y/o I found myself assembling a relax steel bike (Soma Wolverine) with aluminum wheelset. I dont know. It comes with age
Wow! I never thought that biomechanics, based on research in nature, would finally arrive on bikes as well. The weird shape of that track bike's seattube with its horizontal grooves is based on the natural form of the fins of a Humpback whale. Studies showed that the fin's frontal grooves drastically reduce drag despite its very odd looking shape. And now it's on bikes as well...
And scratches in the laquer can lead to catastrophic failure because magnesium is so reactive. No thanks, there is nothing wrong with aluminium frames.
I’ve been thinking this for a while. The only issue with aluminium alloys is their fatigue levels. But, which wide tyres at low pressures, it seems like a good option.
Bought a Crux DSW this summer. Such a fantastic bike and very happy with the purchase! And with bikepacking in mind, i’m just more comfortable with an Alu frame :)
Material science has so much to offer to alter bike frames. You have the 2D material shennanigans like Graphene and the nanotubes made from them. Even if it's expensive per gram, you can add it to your tire rubber mix and get amazing strength increases. If you ditch the carbon fiber for graphene fiber, you'd save another 10% - 20% in weight, while gaining strength. And that's just one material. Hacksmith showcased a coating that increases the strength of any material massively even when used in micrometer thicknesses. Imagine coating your chain with it. It could make all mechanical parts 10x lighter. Or all the fun you could have with chain waxes. Using a phase change material for your wax, so that it is hard when in rest and repells dirt, but liquid inside the bearings. One of the wackier ideas I've had is an inflatable bicycle, where everything but the mechanical components are inflated. You'd need a ridiciulous amount of pressure, but a graphene reinforced rubber could do that.
Alex, yes you are right! The pedals that are flat one side and have spd the other are underrated. They are great for bike packing and touring and also if you have to do a lot of urban riding. You can easily change your foot position on long rides and you don't have to worry about unclipping when you are faced with endless traffic lights in town. I used them on LEJOG and my length of Japan ride. They are great!
If I’m being honest with myself, alloy is really all I need… but carbon is definitely what I want. Cycling is a hobby that keeps me fit and I’m grateful that I’m able to spend a little more on it than I really *need* to.
I would love for the industry to return to steel for mass production. Decades of material science have produced comparable options, but nothing strictly "better" on all fronts, especially for the average rider.
@凸Bebo凸 I am very doubtful of this claim. Better usually means: lighter, more aero, cheaper, better longevity, weather/uv resistance, impact resistance, more attractive appearance, vibration damping, dimensionally stable with moisture/heat/age It might have great vibration resistance and impact but it has a lot of negatives. A steel frame would beat out bamboo in every category, except maybe vibration, which is a bit of a moot point when considering tires/wheels are 99% of vibration damping.
The Specialized SWorks Alloy with full DuraAce and Corima rims was 6.8 kg in 2004. Mine has Ultegra. 7.2 kg with bottle cage and computer. This compares with today's bikes.
Thank god I’m ahead of the curve this time, Found a used titanium mtb, converted it to a 700c bike and drop bars, now it’s like a dad bike but in titanium, so I guess I’m set for a couple more years. I just need someone who can weld on titanium and add disc brake mounts and additional bracing for the bike and It would be a great forever bike 🥰
Sonin USA a big box store Walmart sold a bine called the GMC Denali. It had a hydro formed aluminum frame. That was a offshoot of GMC auto maker. Frame was aero formed. But big they sold to low end market it had all steel front end. Fork, stem, handle bars. Some people stripped the steel off if to drop the weight 10 pounds. But the bike is made to support a 250 pound rider. The new specialized allez sprint comp by Specialized has carbon forks and hydro formed aero frame. Very nice. Single crash does not require you to throw out the frame like a carbon bike.
The most important things for bike performance and comfort are tires, wheels, and bike fit. For most of us, the frame doesn't matter as long as it will fit the wheels and tires you want and it fits you. Seems like the future of bike brands should be custom fit steel/Al/Ti frames.
I would suggest that it could also be Titanium and not just aluminium based alloys. In the aerospace industry, especially in jet turbines, superplastic forming of titanium at temperatures just above 1000 degC is used to manufacture hollow fan blades of incredible strength and low weight despite their enormous sizes. The technique can be used to make complex shaped tubes but also more complex parts such as BB intersection of 3 or 4 tubes.
I bought my Merlin Ti bike 1993 - truly a "lifetime bike" but not so very lifetime in terms of components. The press fit bottom bracket with a square end spindle being one example. After moving to mostly Mountain Biking, I commuted on it, literally for decades. I just rebuilt it again and finding compatible parts (especially compatible bottom bracket bearings) was an adventure, so to speak.
Im a hard riding ClydesdaIe. I love steel. I've cracked all but one of the many alloy frames I've ridden over the decades, though I liked the stiffness I could get on an alloy bike. I sold the one I didn't crack before it died under me. Steel is comfortable and durable. The bikes of MY dreams are all steel.
I'm a big guy who likes to ride his bikes for years, so no way I'll trust Carbon for that. I mostly ride titanium, it's for life. And ever since Brennan Wertz won the 2024 USA Cycling Gravel National Championships on a titanium bike, there's no reason to not ride them even at the highest level. Yes, they are slightly heavier, but he's a massive guy with a ridiculous power output, and he wanted a bike that could handle his efforts.
Agree, I have a 2010 Colnago EPS , in 2010 there wasn't the understanding on where and where not to put different types of carbon fibre for stiffness , compliance etc... Colnago went to Germany and purchased Ferrari grade HM carbon fibre to enable them to build the stiffest frameset possible. However, as the comments in the video, I was lucky that the frame accepts modern 28mm tyres , these run at 70 psi have been a real gamechanger to what was previously a skateboard
Would be great if you could do a pro ike review on that custom art ENVE, espicially if you could track down the tattoo artist for an interview. Amazing looking bike
Good bike fit, tyres, saddle, bars/bars tape and pedals make the biggest difference in ride feel. Frame and fork material only makes a difference when you start going up hill.
@@PRH123 is that difference more or less than a good set of tyres, bars and bar tape though? At the end of the day it's up to everyone what they want and prefer to ride. I just think a lot of people believe what they're being told, can they feel the difference? 99.9% can't. So why pay more just for hype. If bike brands created only their very top tier out of carbon and the rest of their range from "other" cheaper materials and bikes were in general a grand cheaper would people be happier? The industry makes bikes from carbon because the markup is bigger. They're in the business of making money. If the markup was less we wouldn't be riding carbon bikes. It's really simple. But if people are happy and they're riding with a smile on their face. That's OK with me. 😊👍
@@iansingleton I think there’s a difference, I ride 3 bikes on a weekly basis, 2 with steel forks and one with carbon forks (all 3 aluminum). You can have a good set of tires and a carbon fork also, you don’t have to choose. And it gives a Cadillac ride. Doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy the other bikes, I enjoy all 3. Don’t think it’s a case of mass psychosis due to advertising. Not in my case anyway, I’m pretty advertising resistant :)
@@PRH123 I'm glad to hear it mate, a lot are though, otherwise why are so many hobby cyclists and weekend warriors riding really expensive bikes they don't really need? And the cafe chat about tech, benefits and performance and not forgetting "AERO" always makes me chuckle. 😆😆
@@iansingleton it’s a fair question, some people assume more expensive equals better, so they’re easy targets for a bit of marketing One thing I do enjoy in the last year or two though, is that I see a big percent of Joe and Jane public riding on streets and paths on steel or aluminum gravel bikes, instead of the tractor tired dual suspension or hardtail MTB’s and fatbikes that they used to drag themselves around on, sometimes fads I suppose can head in the right direction :)
6:44 I had a Scott G-Zero from around 2000-2010 and that had a Scandium alloy rear swing arm. As an alloy used for frames etc. it’s been around for a while.
I have a 1994 Raleigh Dynatech Aluminum frame which The main tubes are XMT100 which is an Aluminium, whisker re-enforced with silicon carbide. It was sourced from BP Metal Composites of Farnborough . It is the same thickness as a steel frame but supposed to be stronger than steel .
I have 2 steel and 2 carbon bikes.. still love my steelies.. Volare 931 Stainless and Condor Acciaio Columbus Spirt :) love my carbon Cannondales to of course :) Pete
I work in prosthetics and we frequently make sockets and devices from basalt fiber vs carbon fiber. Significantly cheaper, improved impact resistance, less prone to catastrophic failure, and much more environmentally friendly. Still lighter than aluminum as well. Perhaps the bike industry will take notice…
I've got a carbon roadie, a steel fixie commuter, scandium/aluminium track bike and an aluminium MTB. Can definitely see a departure from carbon as the meagre weight and stiffness gains can't compete with the price, repairability, and robustness of alloy in my opinion. If I bought a carbon bike for offroad I'd be constantly worried about a rock cracking the front of the down tube, maybe that's an unfounded fear though?
Cannondale had beautiful smooth welds when they were made in the USA, now they look like crap. Hats off to Orbea for taking the time to smooth the welds for an aesthetically pleasing, financially obtainable bike.
Reynolds 531 tubing! I know it's outperformed by many other materials, be it alu alloys, titanium, carbon or more modern steel alloys. I just like the look of classic road bikes and the ride quality speaks for itself.
@@marcusathome I’m no weight weenie. I’m just not carrying a 9kg - 10kg ‘road bike’ up a flight of stairs. Even gravel bikes that provide more comfort and faster are lighter than that 🤣
I have a steel road bike and recently bought a Kinesis Titanium gravel bike. The Titanium is incredibly comfortable compared to my previous Aluminium gravel bike. As is the steel compared to the previous carbon road bike. Mind I don't race, just enjoy a pedal.
Luis Scott and Reginald Scot both feel there's been an industry-led effort to cast shade on steel as an option. As a returner to cycling after extended hiatus, I only have experience of riding steel and aluminium. Reynolds 853, Columbus SL/X and Spirit The pick of the materials. 6061 T6 the worst ride. My bike is bang on 8kg. I could replace the Ksyrium Elites with a pair of Winspace, a carbon saddle and seatpost to easily bring down to 7.5kg. But I ride for health on cold crappy road surfaces, not for trophy's. What's 1200 quid for a half kilo compared to the 4+ kg i've shed in bodyweight in past year by eating well and running/cycling. Riding my upgrades.. not buying it.
I bought carbon fibre parts (frame, fork, wheels, handlebar, etc.) from China to build a whole bike, and I am very satisfied with the cost-effectiveness. I paid the aluminum bike price (even less) to get a carbon fibre bike. The speed is much faster than an aluminum bike. My next bike will still be a carbon fibre bike for sure.
One of my bikes has a $99 aluminum house brand frame circa 2009, built up with some pretty high end spare parts I had. I really just built it because I had the stuff lying around. I’ve also got carbon and Ti bikes…and honestly, if you didn’t know, you would never guess the frame was so much cheaper based on ride quality.
I just made the move from carbon to titanium road and gravel bikes. I also have two steel hard tails and only one carbon bike, a full suspension down country bike.
On the subject of longevity i have a 16 year ol pinarello fp quattro with original ultegra 10 speed groupset. Still rides beautifully and is immaculate. Its been used an awful lot including touring the Czech Republic
Carbon vs alloy. I had an entry level 2010 Specialized Transition Elite Al triathlon bike with stock Alex wheels and 105 groupset. It weighed 22.5 lbs. Finished second in a local race in my AG behind a guy with a disk rear and deep section front on a carbon frame, so…Decided to upgrade my wheels. I found a 2009 Cervelo P3C frame custom built in 2011, full Dura-Ace, with HED 6x9 wheels and ceramic BB for the price of wheels, so just replaced my old bike. The Cervelo weighs just 18 lbs. But, here’s the issue, the P3C has a rougher ride (same 23mm GP5000 tires) vs the old alloy bike. The carbon bike with it’s fancy wheels and fancy components doesn’t seem to be any faster than the old stock aluminum bike, and I can’t tell the difference in shifting a Dura-Ace vs 105 10sp. But, the P3C is beautiful, so there’s that.
Cannondale Caad 12 with 28mm tires is the most fun bike I’ve ever ridden! I could probably invest in making it even more fun but I’m hoping it last for several more years!
28 is only good for nice weather on my 2012 carbon racer. 66-622 on the front and 50-622 on the back on my gravel bike with clip on bars beat my 32-622 TT bike and the carbon racer By miles for comfort. The gravel bike was 699 € and alu. It is not always what you pay for. My carbon racer was 1000 € for a bike that was supposed to be delivered for a world tour team after the captain got 3rd at the TDF a year before. How lucky am I? Well my gravel bike is about 8x more comfortable not to talk about my later donated recumbents.
I ride steel framed bikes and always have, they have the feel of steel and the thin round tubes look good. They also last a lifetime, my oldest steel frame is 74 years old, still good and never repaired.
I love my carbon bike, I really do (2021 Canyon Ultimate). But I really want a metal bike to replace it when the time comes. A couple of chain drops caused some nasty damage to the bottom bracket which cost over £350 to put right. Thing about metal is you don't need to be so paranoid about the structural implications of small nicks and scrapes / dents. Also way easier to strip down and respray once out of warranty - strip it down, put it in a blaster and you are ready to go. So the carbon bike has been a novelty, but I'm ready to return to a metal one next time round. But not for stupid money.
I remember when..... back in the mid 80's a young friend who was a track sprinter, was given an Ishiwata 015 steel frameset. Most of the tubes were butted 0.6/0.4/0.6mm thickness and even thinner in the middle part of the downtube. My god it was light and if you grabbed the top tube hard enough you could literally see the steel tube flexing From memory scandium was added to 7005 series alloy tubesets in the early 90's and may have been used on high end hardtail mtb frames, made in the US.
Steel bikes are actually make a lot more sense for the weekend warrior. Thinking of offerings from the likes of Genesis, Fairlight etc ... a good steel frame with carbon forks and maybe carbon wheels is as light and fast as I will ever need.
I bought a Specialized Epic Comp about 4 years ago. They had that same build in alloy and carbon, and the shop had both of them available, $1000 difference in price. I had them weighed and there was 1 pound difference in the bikes, for the same exact build. 1 pound less was not worth $1000 more out of my pocket.
I consider myself to be very lucky to own an S-Works Allez from 2014, in a 54cm the frame weighs 1050g and built with Dura Ace 9000 and 1500g carbon wheels, it’s comfortably under 7kg. And rides as nice as a Tarmac SL5 (which I also have) but feels somehow more connected and alive. I don’t think we’ll see the likes of it again now discs have taken over given that your average £5000 carbon disc bike weighs 7.5kg+. It’s not all about weight, but it doesn’t hurt to have a 6.xxkg bike if you can.
The shop where I work sells many steel and chromoly bikes for people who want a forever frame and something that can survive the rigors of riding with packs (and the implied increase in weight) for gravel touring and city commuting. I think people appreciate that carbon saves kilos but often don't appreciate its stiffness among other performance aspects. But carbon pricing continues to be out of reach for most folks. The riders who want a performance bike are going to be fine with the price and typically want the better component technology, etc. too. I am glad that so many less big brands not seen in competitive cycling exist to provide quality bikes for people who want a good bike. But then a lot of new riders are still influenced by brand recognition as their starting point, so they see aluminium Big Brands and carbon spaceships and get intimidated by it all. So it would overall be nice for big brands to embrace steel and other materials to get more bikes for everyone. Also I agree with Ollie that we need to consider sustainability and the environment when it comes down to it.
@@jackpreston2984 Nah, you don't have to be Popeye, the lateral flexing in that area will fatigue the welds and break them off with a few years of heavy riding with lots of stand up pedaling. Fixed Gear and BMX riders break this area of the bike all the time. On a road bike it doesn't happen as much, still not really a forever frame.
Steel is real, but titanium gets all up in your cranium, yo! I have a Lynskey R240 with mechanical shifting, rim brakes, and exposed cables. It's virtually bombproof and easy to work on. It's stiff enough yet comfortable. It's also stable, but responsive enough to flick around a surprise pothole without feeling twitchy. Unfortunately the one limitation (after me, of course) is that the triangle only has clearance for a 25c tire. Otherwise , it's a fantastic bike that does everything I need it to for road riding and even some light duty mixed surface riding in dry conditions. For those who will say I am a retro grouch because of the rim brakes, I have a newer Lynskey with disc brakes, too. I like the R240 better.
I appreciate Ollie's comparison of carbon fiber to Gore's Shakedry membrane, which I agree was a a nearly miraculous product. It appears that Shakedry's replacement has now hit the market with two new rain jackets from Rapha. "Shakedry" isn''t mentioned, but Rapha states that the jacket is PFAS-free and "waterproof," and it definitely carries the Shakedry price premium. I hope GCN will test the jacket soon.
All four main materials have their own characteristics and will suit different people's needs accordingly. The only material I don't have a bike made from is titanium, but plan to do so one day. And depending on the type of ride and conditions I choose accordingly. Wet and windy or for commute/shopping, alloy (with mudguards and maybe panniers). Fast club rides or races, carbon. Relaxed/cafe rides, steel (unless in bad weather). The development of steel bikes would make a good tech topic. In the 40s and 50s Reynolds 531 was the tube of choice for frame builders in the UK, but developed even lighter and stronger tubing in subsequent years and a 725 or 953 tube frame is noticeably lighter, stiffer and stronger than a 531.
I think the problem with buying (at least new) aluminium bikes is that most of the aluminium bikes sold with Sora max, even 105 is not often provided; you don't really see them selling you an ultegra aluminium bikes, and 105 Di2 I also couldn't really find
![Lethal Company Music Video 🎵 "Follow The Orders" [VERSION A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeooZB4Z7RA/mqdefault.jpg)
What do you think the future holds for carbon fibre bikes? 🚲 👇
They will not be a bread and butter but definitively will remain as a delicacy.
This is something I didn't even think could happen..
Carbon fiber bikes will cost tens of thousands.. and aluminum bikes 10,000..
Blends. Look in to Time's dyneema blends, Ollie would love to discuss that!
Carbon bikes will multiply. Look at prices today, so many low end bikes are now in carbon. Why buy a heavier aluminium bike with weldings made by welders that made the Titanic. Carbon bikes are nicer looking and will become cheaper than aluminium with automation and volume production.
Steel bikes only exists because small bespoke shops find it easier to weld.
Aluminium bikes exist because small productions in Asia can produce them by hand without expensive equipment.
Aluminium bikes are cheaper, the market will decide the outcome.
Your next bike is alloy because of the technical improvements and aerodynamics (I didn't watch the video yet). My next bike is alloy because I am poor. We are not the same.
Hehe. For every day use I will always look for alloy bikes when people ask me for advice. Unless the person is loaded with cash and can afford 2 bikes, go for the durable/rugged one before dumping cash into a hobby.
😂
Even poor people cant afford alloy bikes with these prices
this comment is criminally under-thumbs upped
I would rather have an aluminum bike with an extra $1500 dollars worth of wheels.
The advent of wider tires has made a big difference. For most riders the most compelling reason for carbon over aluminum was comfort and still lightweight. Now that people are riding around on 32 mm tires lightweight aluminum isn't uncomfortable.
Man, aluminum with carbon wheels and 25 is what I ride now and feels amazing, better than carbon bikes that I had, and the bike is 12 y.o., ok I’m in search of a new bike, but this was my first and I still think is very good, I’ll buy a new bike only because it is rim brake and I want a disc brake one 🤷♂️
Even more so with ever widening tyres the frame material in general matters less and less. So then, more steel again?
@@feedbackzaloop agreed 😁
To me the difference between my Toray T-800 carbon bike my lugged Reynolds 853 bike and a standard trash Aluminum frame is massive on 32mm tires. Don't kid yourself that you are getting the full ride quality of lugged 853 on your 32mm roadie tires, you aren't until you raise the size to 40mm which feels like a tank and not a road bike anymore.
One day I'll give my old aluminium Trek 1000 (that has become an ornament) a try with just lower tyre pressures. It did feel a firm ride. Maybe that's all it needed.
The service box on the Orbea looks like a battery. We can't be having that.
When you go uphill, everyone will realise it's not electric 😃
I think that , in the future, Orbea will replace this with a battery, making a very acceptable e-bike.
That box looks like a hideous afterthought.
That was my first thought as well (looks like a battery). I sometimes worry people might think my Cervélo is an e-bike because of the é logo and the large bottom bracket shell.
@@ukestjohnnope. orbea already have ebikes with the battery integrated inside the downtube (i have one), so there's no way they would change that design and expose the battery on the outside like this and make it look uglier.
Ride a lot, crash a few times, titanium will be the top of your list.
@@barn2255Just curious who build your bike.
Love the Endurace AL I bought last year to replace my 30 year old Cannondale R300 (still hanging on wall, though). I lost 7 kg since March so no need for carbon fiber.
The aluminium discussion reminds me of when Specialized did a limited release Allez Smartweld S-Works version that was super light and performed amazing in sprints.
My brother's owned one for about a year. He sold it. He didn't like it. And he isn't a carbon fanboy. His only carbon bike is a gravel bike that never leaves the trainer. He prefers his titanium gravel bike.
I have a Specialized Shiv alu 2009 the only year when alu was the material. Stiff as crazy and non functional SRAM 2x front. The reason why SRAM pushes 1x.
L39ion LA dominated the US Crit scene on those bikes for a few years.
@@JanneRasanen2 I agree with you wrt SRAM FDs-- as I imagine 2010 Andy Schleck does! Had early force and it shifted great in the back, but yes the reason why SRAM pushes 1x so hard is because they never figured out 2x in the first place.
I currently ride carbon fiber, but like many other cyclists my dream bike is a custom titanium bike. Custom metal bikes can be perfectly suited to your size, locally manufactured, and they look beautiful. Someday, that's what I'll ride.
My favorite bike is made of steel. It has a carbon fiber fork and alloy wheels. I don't care what the pros ride. I am not a pro, and I never will be.
Me too. Ride for enjoyment and fitness.
Well, never say never 😂
@@gcntechLOL. Do you think anyone over the age of 30 will wake up and say “hey, I want to go pro” and be immediately picked up by a team? Or anyone lacking a room-sized ego will spend an absurd amount of money on a bike whose potential greatly exceeds their physical abilities?
This past time attracts a lot of poseurs and wannabes, but never enough to satisfy corporate appetites.
You can always be an influencer to pick up a bike sponsorship.
@@newttella1043 The industry term for that is “sock puppet”.
I have a Cannondale CAAD13 Disk 105 . . . pretty basic aluminum alloy "race bike" . . . Have about 8,000 miles on it and it's been terrific. Keeps up in the paceline when we're running along at 22-and even up 24-25MPH and handles very well. I weigh @ 170 pounds. I am a crappy climber, but I can't blame that on the bike :) I think the best upgrade that I can add to this bike, to improve performance, would be some nice carbon wheels . . . I think they'll make a nice difference. Happy riding.
My cannondale card 9 with full dura ace and an older set of American classic carbon fiber rim brake wheels weighs 16 lbs. max tire width 25mm tires running around 90 lbs pressure makes it comfortable and lighter than some guys I ride with with carbon fiber frame sets. I do wish I could put 28s onto it but it wouldn’t move🤪
You know what's cool about metal bikes? They're quiet. You don't really notice how loud your carbon bike is until you hop on something else, but it's really awesome. If you are out on a nice fall day, no wind, cruising on a long ride, with a waxed chain no less, you hear nothing, your bike just goes. Then when you hop back on your wizz bang bike, it's clunk clunk rattle rattle and you hear all of it. I hop back and forth with my N+1 collection and that's the main thing.
Yay, my track bike just got a Supernice! And I don't think Ollie even realized I'm the guy who sent him the Shimano 100 book way back in Tech Show 203.
Surely He had forgotten about it before you mentioned it 😂
@@gcntech I'm just as happy that Alex had forgotten, he said he was "incredibly jealous" at the time and I'm glad he didn't hold anything against me.
Thanks for finally saying it Ollie, our local landfills have more carbon frames in them than even your local dentists garage, amazed but not surprised that governments aren't remotely interested in doing anything about it, a lot of people have forgotten that bicycles are supposed to be a better alternative to other forms of transport
government interested in Bicycles and their waste?
@@High_Octane exactly.
Plastic bottles and trash bags outweigh carbon frames in landfills and the ocean 10 to 1. Government should start there first.
@@ZebraLemur what nonsense. A carbon frame lasting or being used for 20 years? Unlikely. Also solid waste per person - most of this is either biodegradable or recyclable. And of course metal framed bikes get recycled if they’re taken to a recycling facility.
Yay my Grevil got a Supernice at the end - spent ages on that photo :-) thanks Alex and Ollie.
My Cannondale CAADi2 (CAAD12 with Di2) has come back into fashion! Cool. Never getting rid of it, knew it was the best that money could buy.
With Aluminium theres a possibility with hydroformed tubing. You can make them look modern and like a smooth carbon frame.Price for performance Aluminum i can see making a comeback. Steel its harder for me to see unless theres a resurgance of people wanting the look of an old school round tube bike. Titanium is to expensive and much more expensive to produce a bike frame. Being a steel bike lover. Id love to see a comeback.
My Fairlight Strael rides brilliantly and is nearly as light as my carbon bike. A truly modern steel bike with a design that gets the best out of Reynolds 853 - the tubing has super thin walls, with the chain stays being hydro formed.
@akronystic 853 is amazing stuff. It's a tried and true product. With amazing ride quality.
Oh I've known for years now that my next bike WILL 100% NOT be carbon :D It will be titanium :) Carbon bikes are for athletes and people interested in racing, and I'm neither :)
do it. I bought a Baum Titanium bike 2 years ago after being sick of poorly made carbon frames that fracture if you look at them with bespoke parts that are out of stock after 5 years. Best decision ever.
@@MacuhdohnadadohJust out of curiosity, which brand and model of ti bike did you have?
I bought a TI bike and love it. I added allot of additional parts for my comfort and suggest you seek excellence on your own terms. You will be glad you did
@@peteracainthe baum frame alone is around 12000 gorillas! Nowadays, thrown in top tier gear and its 25k. Just stupid
@@samgiamarelos4524 Less than the latest Tarmac.
My last new bike was aluminium. Priced right and performs fine. Unlikely to explode on a trail. Perfect.
I have a fleet of steel vintage bikes as well. Ageless and lovely to ride. Who will be riding 45 year old carbon bikes in years to come.
I chose a titanium bike (VA Moots) over a carbon fiber one due to the vibration-dampening characteristics of the metal. It does have a carbon fork and the recovery time after a long ride is less than carbon or aluminium.
Moots makes some sweet bikes!
I just think that carbon fiber having low durability makes it a pro-only choice, and us peasants should stay with alloys.
I like aluminum bikes a lot.
But The durability of carbon isn't all that low (I've crashed carbon bikes numerous times with only superficial damage) AND they can be repaired quite easily/inexspensively.
I think the big plus for manufacturers and bike teams is that carbon frames very quick to make and very quick to change so for pro riding and industry carbon makes a lot of sense
@@Foxtrottangoabc No they aren't. Most carbon frames are made in a mould so the mould has to be made first and this will cost thousands. This is why most custom bikes are metal (quicker and cheaper to make and easy to adapt geometry).
Once you have a mould and a supply chain you can produce more bikes, and the labour involved is more economical, it's still a skill, however laying sheets of carbon and setting in resin is easier than welding and cutting.
A lot of large brands, even on their high end bikes are also sourcing frames from all over the place, meaning the cost for them in included into the frame, and goes down when larger orders are made ect, only those silly priced bikes have the experts in black latex gloves carefully laying each layer by hand spending weeks on end producing a single frame, the rest is automatically produced and pumped out through a rinse repeat method, carbon, ironically, is much like plastic for food in some sense.
My brother rides a 1989 Giant Cadex 980c; how long does a bike have to last?
Not sold on the service box, a perfect place to catch all the crud off the road, pros will ride what there paid to and whatever the industry wants to promote
I just started crit racing on my steel gravel bike with road tyres and I couldn't agree more about tyres changing feel more than the frame. I was planning to racing on a carbon bike but unfortunately cracked the frame. Well the crit season started so I put narrow bars on my Norco search. First race was hard, got dropped because I was on gravel tyres, second race I had 28mm race tyres with tpu tubes and finished 5th in the final sprint with the same time as the winners only held back by gearing. I am however still looking forward to a bike under 11kgs 😂.
I've been riding a fluid formed alu-alloy frame as a touring bike for 8 years now. Bombproof, light enough for an old "fred" like me and I run supple tyres on it. Super handling, easy comfy riding, carries a big load. Way cheaper than and as many brackets and bosses as any entry level steel tourer. And steel started at 3x the price when I bought this.
I have Pinarello 1992 with Campagnolo SuperRecord, Trek Alumininium frame with Shimano 105 (2010) (gone), Specialized Diverge with Shimano GRX (2022) (my daughter has it now) and custom Ti frame with SRAM XPLR. From all these bikes, the 1992 Pinarello is still AMAZING bike to ride. Feels and rides great. Is it the fastest, lightest, etc, bike? No, it is not. But it rides like a dream. I love to go for up to 20km rides on it for pure enjoyment.
the custom Ti frame is designed to be single bike with two wheel-sets, one road and one gravel. The lateral stiffness is 10/10 and the vertical compliance is 6/10. With titanium and steel you can design such frame. Went with titanium frame, as from my experience with high end steel, it will last forever. Group sets change and as they age out become very expensive (I dread the moment when looking for original Campagnolo, but they look just beautiful).
Now here is the most important part, 55 yo with about 87kg. Is the bike 1-2 kilo heavier or lighter, don't care much, as much I enjoy the ride and the time with the frineds out on the road. I hope to keep my custom Ti bike for next 20 years and enjoy many, many great rides
Lucky to own a Tarmac SL8 and Allez Sprint.
Identical parts down to the wheels and tires. Everything besides the frame. Close my eyes, I couldn't tell you the difference.
where are you riding? on a perfectly smooth surface. carbon is WAY better in absorbing surface I mean... night and day!!!
@@TK-nc3ou placebo. Carbon bikes are being made stiffer and stiffer. You physically do not have the perceptual capability to tell the difference between NVH of frame materials when its all being swamped out by larger tire volumes.
@@cjohnson3836 I can tell the difference between carbon, steel and Alu on gigantic 35mm tires, not true. 38-40mm is where they all start to blend together like you are claiming.
@@凸Bebo凸 No, you can't. There's a million other things that are playing out. Shape of the stays. How much exposed seat post. Shape of the head tube. How much stack in spacers you are running. Handlebars. How was the steerer constructed between each fork (this even varies between carbon forks on the same frame). You very literally do not have the ability to perceive through all those difference. And the dampening/rebound of the tires (going to vary even within model) produces an effect size much larger than any of those effects. Physics is physics and neurobiology is neurobiology.
@@cjohnson3836 If you ride fixed gear it's very noticeable. Be glad you can't perceive it and can enjoy your crappy Alu bikes. It's a curse to be able to feel this stuff. You sound like you've been watching too many CYCLINGABOUT videos. That guy just wants to sell you 9000 dollar Alu bikes, don't listen to him, haha.
I just bought my first carbon bike, Otso Waheela w/shimano GRX 11 speed for $2400 because it's the 2022 model, the current year frame only is $2700.
2.1" tire clearance and just over 20lbs no complaints.
I have my steel/alloy Battaglin that I am most happy with. I am older, slower than I used to be, but that bike rides great and looks fabulous, all I want.
The only reason that most carbon fiber road bikes are so expensive is because of greedy manufacturers. They cost a small fraction to manufacture than what some brands are selling them for.
That’s true for everything in the world though.
What the market will bear.
Kootu for me…$1,300 all carbon fiber. Love it!
I built carbon fiber rowing shells. You would be surprised how much craftsmanship is required to build them. Bikes also require expensive molds for production.
when you buy high end sport equipment, there is often a heavy sponsorship cost added to it. When you buy tennis shoes you pay more for the pro than for the whole manufacturing of your good. Even when you buy a car, you pay more for the advertisement than for the wage of the workers making it (but still in this case the total cost is superior to the advertisement).
Also small quantities have a highest manufacturing cost and a huge engineering cost by item.
And at the end when you have invested a lot in sponsorship and engineering, you want something back and you milk the whales to the limit.
Just bought my new bike and its not carbon. I went for Titanium. I do a lot of bikepacking including internationally and so need something that is comfortable to ride, is less likely to be broken in transit and I also wanted a bike that will outlast me (at 54, I'm similar age to Dan Lloyd, so hopefully decades of riding left to do).
I presume you meant 34?
@@daniellloyd100 I wish I was LOL
@daniellloyd100 34 last 20yrs
yes from direct impact carbon is fragile, but titanium frames are more likely to crack due to milage
@@diogonascimento6470. Source?
As someone here has said, long strand Kevlar fibers used by Time connect across so much resin that failures become as rare as aluminum failures.
That Orbea with 105 is a fantastic deal, a serious price rollback. Ang gorgeous, too. Metal and mechanical forever, with an e-bike conversion kit on commuters, fun to have some boost with a thumb throttle. 😀
I have a carbon, aluminum, titanium & steel, the 2 I don’t see myself ever getting rid of are the Alu CAAD 10 & the Lynskey Ti. Good show today boys..!
Hope it never happens to you but I had a stressed aluminium frame and I rear ended a car. Pushed the forks out of place and bent the down tube. But the telling thing were the stress fractures you could see on that down tube.
Third try in the bike vault and now I got in … and my new Titanium Kocmo ticked all boxes. Thanks for all your work! I follow you for years now. You are supernice. And in the end my bike is supernice too. ❤ …and it is not made of carbon.
I like carbon fibre as much as anyone on my TT/Performance bike. But I have a gravel commuter that I spent most time riding and I have spent more time effort caring for it compared to my training bikes.
Being able to lock it up and not dreading some bumps/knicks makes me feel like can use it as a training tool and not an expensive piece of tech.
So the gravel bike has gotten upgrades like several sets of tires, detachable fenders, semi-hyraulic brakes, premium cables/housing... So for a alloy bike it is getting most of my attention 😅
I could see a major bike brand follow small builders and make a nice steel bike for two reasons: steel is still stylish. A supple steel bike that isn't overbuilt has a very nice ride quality, and can still be quite light.
I have had all those carbon bikes (buy and sell is my business).
I have the latest Venge, Tarmac and supersix evo all on carbon wheels and di2.
Now At 34 y/o I found myself assembling a relax steel bike (Soma Wolverine) with aluminum wheelset. I dont know. It comes with age
Wow! I never thought that biomechanics, based on research in nature, would finally arrive on bikes as well. The weird shape of that track bike's seattube with its horizontal grooves is based on the natural form of the fins of a Humpback whale. Studies showed that the fin's frontal grooves drastically reduce drag despite its very odd looking shape. And now it's on bikes as well...
*Magnesium Alloy frames.*
Light, strong & aero shapes for tubing.
Also, cheaper than CF.
And scratches in the laquer can lead to catastrophic failure because magnesium is so reactive.
No thanks, there is nothing wrong with aluminium frames.
I appreciate the note regarding environmental concerns driving the materials decisions. Kudos to that!
The Allez kills any and everything on the road if you build it right. Make no mistake 🔥
I’ve been thinking this for a while. The only issue with aluminium alloys is their fatigue levels. But, which wide tyres at low pressures, it seems like a good option.
Absolutely beautiful bike painted by the tattoo artist❤
Bought a Crux DSW this summer. Such a fantastic bike and very happy with the purchase! And with bikepacking in mind, i’m just more comfortable with an Alu frame :)
Material science has so much to offer to alter bike frames. You have the 2D material shennanigans like Graphene and the nanotubes made from them. Even if it's expensive per gram, you can add it to your tire rubber mix and get amazing strength increases. If you ditch the carbon fiber for graphene fiber, you'd save another 10% - 20% in weight, while gaining strength. And that's just one material. Hacksmith showcased a coating that increases the strength of any material massively even when used in micrometer thicknesses. Imagine coating your chain with it. It could make all mechanical parts 10x lighter. Or all the fun you could have with chain waxes. Using a phase change material for your wax, so that it is hard when in rest and repells dirt, but liquid inside the bearings.
One of the wackier ideas I've had is an inflatable bicycle, where everything but the mechanical components are inflated. You'd need a ridiciulous amount of pressure, but a graphene reinforced rubber could do that.
Alex, yes you are right! The pedals that are flat one side and have spd the other are underrated. They are great for bike packing and touring and also if you have to do a lot of urban riding. You can easily change your foot position on long rides and you don't have to worry about unclipping when you are faced with endless traffic lights in town. I used them on LEJOG and my length of Japan ride. They are great!
If I’m being honest with myself, alloy is really all I need… but carbon is definitely what I want. Cycling is a hobby that keeps me fit and I’m grateful that I’m able to spend a little more on it than I really *need* to.
I would love for the industry to return to steel for mass production. Decades of material science have produced comparable options, but nothing strictly "better" on all fronts, especially for the average rider.
Much more aero shakes and a hell of a lot lighter
Steel is the best frame material but it's the same as it was 50 years ago. No new material science really.
Wood is making a comeback
@@ZebraLemur Bamboo is the best material for a geared road bike that isn't intended for racing, no arguments here.
@凸Bebo凸 I am very doubtful of this claim. Better usually means: lighter, more aero, cheaper, better longevity, weather/uv resistance, impact resistance, more attractive appearance, vibration damping, dimensionally stable with moisture/heat/age
It might have great vibration resistance and impact but it has a lot of negatives. A steel frame would beat out bamboo in every category, except maybe vibration, which is a bit of a moot point when considering tires/wheels are 99% of vibration damping.
The Specialized SWorks Alloy with full DuraAce and Corima rims was 6.8 kg in 2004.
Mine has Ultegra. 7.2 kg with bottle cage and computer. This compares with today's bikes.
Love my custom steel road bike. With tubeless tires, the ride is sublime. Yes it's heavier by a bit, but it's got soul!
I remember back in the early 2000s, Easton manufactured Scandium Alloy tubesets for road race bikes.
Thank god I’m ahead of the curve this time, Found a used titanium mtb, converted it to a 700c bike and drop bars, now it’s like a dad bike but in titanium, so I guess I’m set for a couple more years. I just need someone who can weld on titanium and add disc brake mounts and additional bracing for the bike and It would be a great forever bike 🥰
Sonin USA a big box store Walmart sold a bine called the GMC Denali. It had a hydro formed aluminum frame. That was a offshoot of GMC auto maker. Frame was aero formed. But big they sold to low end market it had all steel front end. Fork, stem, handle bars. Some people stripped the steel off if to drop the weight 10 pounds. But the bike is made to support a 250 pound rider. The new specialized allez sprint comp by Specialized has carbon forks and hydro formed aero frame. Very nice. Single crash does not require you to throw out the frame like a carbon bike.
5:50 "Scam Alloy" what a revealing labsus !! the industry is hidenly confessing finaly, somehow !😁
The most important things for bike performance and comfort are tires, wheels, and bike fit. For most of us, the frame doesn't matter as long as it will fit the wheels and tires you want and it fits you. Seems like the future of bike brands should be custom fit steel/Al/Ti frames.
I would suggest that it could also be Titanium and not just aluminium based alloys.
In the aerospace industry, especially in jet turbines, superplastic forming of titanium at temperatures just above 1000 degC is used to manufacture hollow fan blades of incredible strength and low weight despite their enormous sizes. The technique can be used to make complex shaped tubes but also more complex parts such as BB intersection of 3 or 4 tubes.
Rocking the specialized crux dsw. I have no complaints.
Reynolds 931 and 953.
Here is the future. 953 is stainless. It will last forever. :-)
All materials degrade with time, except unobtanium.
@@davidadamus177 you mean adamantium, Wolverine's bones, unobtanium is avatar.
I bought my Merlin Ti bike 1993 - truly a "lifetime bike" but not so very lifetime in terms of components. The press fit bottom bracket with a square end spindle being one example. After moving to mostly Mountain Biking, I commuted on it, literally for decades. I just rebuilt it again and finding compatible parts (especially compatible bottom bracket bearings) was an adventure, so to speak.
You mean square taper spindle? Didn’t know that anyone ever made a press fit cartridge bearing BB with square taper, interesting.
@@PRH123 google: early merlin press fit bottom bracket
Im a hard riding ClydesdaIe.
I love steel. I've cracked all but one of the many alloy frames I've ridden over the decades, though I liked the stiffness I could get on an alloy bike.
I sold the one I didn't crack before it died under me.
Steel is comfortable and durable.
The bikes of MY dreams are all steel.
I'm a big guy who likes to ride his bikes for years, so no way I'll trust Carbon for that. I mostly ride titanium, it's for life. And ever since Brennan Wertz won the 2024 USA Cycling Gravel National Championships on a titanium bike, there's no reason to not ride them even at the highest level. Yes, they are slightly heavier, but he's a massive guy with a ridiculous power output, and he wanted a bike that could handle his efforts.
Agree, I have a 2010 Colnago EPS , in 2010 there wasn't the understanding on where and where not to put different types of carbon fibre for stiffness , compliance etc... Colnago went to Germany and purchased Ferrari grade HM carbon fibre to enable them to build the stiffest frameset possible. However, as the comments in the video, I was lucky that the frame accepts modern 28mm tyres , these run at 70 psi have been a real gamechanger to what was previously a skateboard
Love my Aluminum 2007 Cervelo Soloist Team CSC Bike. Aero, slippery, and faster than me. And, It is beautiful.
Great news for the shops stuck with crap inventory from 2022!
Would be great if you could do a pro ike review on that custom art ENVE, espicially if you could track down the tattoo artist for an interview. Amazing looking bike
Good bike fit, tyres, saddle, bars/bars tape and pedals make the biggest difference in ride feel. Frame and fork material only makes a difference when you start going up hill.
hmm, carbon fork does make a big difference in feel
@@PRH123 is that difference more or less than a good set of tyres, bars and bar tape though? At the end of the day it's up to everyone what they want and prefer to ride. I just think a lot of people believe what they're being told, can they feel the difference? 99.9% can't. So why pay more just for hype. If bike brands created only their very top tier out of carbon and the rest of their range from "other" cheaper materials and bikes were in general a grand cheaper would people be happier? The industry makes bikes from carbon because the markup is bigger. They're in the business of making money. If the markup was less we wouldn't be riding carbon bikes. It's really simple. But if people are happy and they're riding with a smile on their face. That's OK with me. 😊👍
@@iansingleton I think there’s a difference, I ride 3 bikes on a weekly basis, 2 with steel forks and one with carbon forks (all 3 aluminum). You can have a good set of tires and a carbon fork also, you don’t have to choose. And it gives a Cadillac ride. Doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy the other bikes, I enjoy all 3. Don’t think it’s a case of mass psychosis due to advertising. Not in my case anyway, I’m pretty advertising resistant :)
@@PRH123 I'm glad to hear it mate, a lot are though, otherwise why are so many hobby cyclists and weekend warriors riding really expensive bikes they don't really need? And the cafe chat about tech, benefits and performance and not forgetting "AERO" always makes me chuckle. 😆😆
@@iansingleton it’s a fair question, some people assume more expensive equals better, so they’re easy targets for a bit of marketing
One thing I do enjoy in the last year or two though, is that I see a big percent of Joe and Jane public riding on streets and paths on steel or aluminum gravel bikes, instead of the tractor tired dual suspension or hardtail MTB’s and fatbikes that they used to drag themselves around on, sometimes fads I suppose can head in the right direction :)
Nothing beats good steel bike.
6:44 I had a Scott G-Zero from around 2000-2010 and that had a Scandium alloy rear swing arm. As an alloy used for frames etc. it’s been around for a while.
I have a VAAST magnesium bike for my second bike and I like how it rides. My primary bike is a Pinarello Prince.
I always had an aluminum frame with carbon fork bike and use the money saved to get carbon wheels, better tires and comfortable seat
I have a 1994 Raleigh Dynatech Aluminum frame which The main tubes are XMT100 which is an Aluminium, whisker re-enforced with silicon carbide. It was sourced from BP Metal Composites of Farnborough . It is the same thickness as a steel frame but supposed to be stronger than steel .
I have 2 steel and 2 carbon bikes.. still love my steelies.. Volare 931 Stainless and Condor Acciaio Columbus Spirt :) love my carbon Cannondales to of course :) Pete
Be it aluminum, steel or carbon frame, I love all bikes just the same.
@@DamnMyNickIsTakenme to 👍🚴
I love my ALLEZ SPRINT, no different to carbon bikes, maybe 500g heavier but this is easy equalized with proper training and aerodynamic positioning
My allez sprint is my dream bike. Amazing bike.
Absolutely love my Sprint
Wish Specialized made it in a 44
I work in prosthetics and we frequently make sockets and devices from basalt fiber vs carbon fiber. Significantly cheaper, improved impact resistance, less prone to catastrophic failure, and much more environmentally friendly. Still lighter than aluminum as well. Perhaps the bike industry will take notice…
I've got a carbon roadie, a steel fixie commuter, scandium/aluminium track bike and an aluminium MTB.
Can definitely see a departure from carbon as the meagre weight and stiffness gains can't compete with the price, repairability, and robustness of alloy in my opinion. If I bought a carbon bike for offroad I'd be constantly worried about a rock cracking the front of the down tube, maybe that's an unfounded fear though?
Cannondale had beautiful smooth welds when they were made in the USA, now they look like crap. Hats off to Orbea for taking the time to smooth the welds for an aesthetically pleasing, financially obtainable bike.
Reynolds 531 tubing!
I know it's outperformed by many other materials, be it alu alloys, titanium, carbon or more modern steel alloys. I just like the look of classic road bikes and the ride quality speaks for itself.
They say steel is real but if you’re talking Reynolds 531, I am not carrying that elephant up and down my flat! 🤡
@@ariffau This is for men, not weight weenies! :)
@@marcusathome I’m no weight weenie. I’m just not carrying a 9kg - 10kg ‘road bike’ up a flight of stairs. Even gravel bikes that provide more comfort and faster are lighter than that 🤣
@@ariffau You are a lightweight.... just like your bike.
@@ariffau poor muffin
I'm happy to see this cause I can imagine there much cheaper than carbon and there so much creativity to be had there
I have a steel road bike and recently bought a Kinesis Titanium gravel bike. The Titanium is incredibly comfortable compared to my previous Aluminium gravel bike. As is the steel compared to the previous carbon road bike. Mind I don't race, just enjoy a pedal.
Luis Scott and Reginald Scot both feel there's been an industry-led effort to cast shade on steel as an option.
As a returner to cycling after extended hiatus, I only have experience of riding steel and aluminium. Reynolds 853, Columbus SL/X and Spirit The pick of the materials. 6061 T6 the worst ride. My bike is bang on 8kg. I could replace the Ksyrium Elites with a pair of Winspace, a carbon saddle and seatpost to easily bring down to 7.5kg. But I ride for health on cold crappy road surfaces, not for trophy's. What's 1200 quid for a half kilo compared to the 4+ kg i've shed in bodyweight in past year by eating well and running/cycling.
Riding my upgrades.. not buying it.
I bought carbon fibre parts (frame, fork, wheels, handlebar, etc.) from China to build a whole bike, and I am very satisfied with the cost-effectiveness. I paid the aluminum bike price (even less) to get a carbon fibre bike. The speed is much faster than an aluminum bike. My next bike will still be a carbon fibre bike for sure.
My Scapin Pro Racer (very light Geoid steel frame) with steel forks and aluminum wheels is, by far, my best riding bike. Smooth, strong, fast.
One of my bikes has a $99 aluminum house brand frame circa 2009, built up with some pretty high end spare parts I had. I really just built it because I had the stuff lying around. I’ve also got carbon and Ti bikes…and honestly, if you didn’t know, you would never guess the frame was so much cheaper based on ride quality.
I just made the move from carbon to titanium road and gravel bikes. I also have two steel hard tails and only one carbon bike, a full suspension down country bike.
On the subject of longevity i have a 16 year ol pinarello fp quattro with original ultegra 10 speed groupset. Still rides beautifully and is immaculate. Its been used an awful lot including touring the Czech Republic
CAAD 13 gang🤩, i also have Giant TCR A2 2023 but still prefer my CAAD and alu frames.
Carbon vs alloy. I had an entry level 2010 Specialized Transition Elite Al triathlon bike with stock Alex wheels and 105 groupset. It weighed 22.5 lbs. Finished second in a local race in my AG behind a guy with a disk rear and deep section front on a carbon frame, so…Decided to upgrade my wheels. I found a 2009 Cervelo P3C frame custom built in 2011, full Dura-Ace, with HED 6x9 wheels and ceramic BB for the price of wheels, so just replaced my old bike. The Cervelo weighs just 18 lbs. But, here’s the issue, the P3C has a rougher ride (same 23mm GP5000 tires) vs the old alloy bike. The carbon bike with it’s fancy wheels and fancy components doesn’t seem to be any faster than the old stock aluminum bike, and I can’t tell the difference in shifting a Dura-Ace vs 105 10sp. But, the P3C is beautiful, so there’s that.
Cannondale Caad 12 with 28mm tires is the most fun bike I’ve ever ridden! I could probably invest in making it even more fun but I’m hoping it last for several more years!
28 is only good for nice weather on my 2012 carbon racer. 66-622 on the front and 50-622 on the back on my gravel bike with clip on bars beat my 32-622 TT bike and the carbon racer By miles for comfort. The gravel bike was 699 € and alu. It is not always what you pay for. My carbon racer was 1000 € for a bike that was supposed to be delivered for a world tour team after the captain got 3rd at the TDF a year before. How lucky am I? Well my gravel bike is about 8x more comfortable not to talk about my later donated recumbents.
I ride steel framed bikes and always have, they have the feel of steel and the thin round tubes look good. They also last a lifetime, my oldest steel frame is 74 years old, still good and never repaired.
I love my carbon bike, I really do (2021 Canyon Ultimate). But I really want a metal bike to replace it when the time comes.
A couple of chain drops caused some nasty damage to the bottom bracket which cost over £350 to put right.
Thing about metal is you don't need to be so paranoid about the structural implications of small nicks and scrapes / dents.
Also way easier to strip down and respray once out of warranty - strip it down, put it in a blaster and you are ready to go.
So the carbon bike has been a novelty, but I'm ready to return to a metal one next time round. But not for stupid money.
I remember when.....
back in the mid 80's a young friend who was a track sprinter, was given an Ishiwata 015 steel frameset.
Most of the tubes were butted 0.6/0.4/0.6mm thickness and even thinner in the middle part of the downtube.
My god it was light and if you grabbed the top tube hard enough you could literally see the steel tube flexing
From memory scandium was added to 7005 series alloy tubesets in the early 90's and may have been used on high end hardtail mtb frames, made in the US.
Steel bikes are actually make a lot more sense for the weekend warrior. Thinking of offerings from the likes of Genesis, Fairlight etc ... a good steel frame with carbon forks and maybe carbon wheels is as light and fast as I will ever need.
I bought a Specialized Epic Comp about 4 years ago. They had that same build in alloy and carbon, and the shop had both of them available, $1000 difference in price. I had them weighed and there was 1 pound difference in the bikes, for the same exact build. 1 pound less was not worth $1000 more out of my pocket.
I consider myself to be very lucky to own an S-Works Allez from 2014, in a 54cm the frame weighs 1050g and built with Dura Ace 9000 and 1500g carbon wheels, it’s comfortably under 7kg. And rides as nice as a Tarmac SL5 (which I also have) but feels somehow more connected and alive. I don’t think we’ll see the likes of it again now discs have taken over given that your average £5000 carbon disc bike weighs 7.5kg+. It’s not all about weight, but it doesn’t hurt to have a 6.xxkg bike if you can.
Let's keep moving back, thinking 3000 years - a BRONZE bike!!! That would be so beautiful!
Now that would be classic! Maybe we could go all the way back to stone . . .?
The shop where I work sells many steel and chromoly bikes for people who want a forever frame and something that can survive the rigors of riding with packs (and the implied increase in weight) for gravel touring and city commuting. I think people appreciate that carbon saves kilos but often don't appreciate its stiffness among other performance aspects. But carbon pricing continues to be out of reach for most folks. The riders who want a performance bike are going to be fine with the price and typically want the better component technology, etc. too. I am glad that so many less big brands not seen in competitive cycling exist to provide quality bikes for people who want a good bike. But then a lot of new riders are still influenced by brand recognition as their starting point, so they see aluminium Big Brands and carbon spaceships and get intimidated by it all. So it would overall be nice for big brands to embrace steel and other materials to get more bikes for everyone. Also I agree with Ollie that we need to consider sustainability and the environment when it comes down to it.
Cro moly isn't a forever frame. A strong rider can easily snap the bottom bracket off with stand up pedalling in a few years.
@@凸Bebo凸 So long as said rider eats spinach before every sesh ....
@@jackpreston2984 Nah, you don't have to be Popeye, the lateral flexing in that area will fatigue the welds and break them off with a few years of heavy riding with lots of stand up pedaling. Fixed Gear and BMX riders break this area of the bike all the time.
On a road bike it doesn't happen as much, still not really a forever frame.
@@凸Bebo凸 Gotcha
Steel is real, but titanium gets all up in your cranium, yo!
I have a Lynskey R240 with mechanical shifting, rim brakes, and exposed cables. It's virtually bombproof and easy to work on. It's stiff enough yet comfortable. It's also stable, but responsive enough to flick around a surprise pothole without feeling twitchy. Unfortunately the one limitation (after me, of course) is that the triangle only has clearance for a 25c tire. Otherwise , it's a fantastic bike that does everything I need it to for road riding and even some light duty mixed surface riding in dry conditions.
For those who will say I am a retro grouch because of the rim brakes, I have a newer Lynskey with disc brakes, too. I like the R240 better.
It wood be great to see some wooden frames/bikes tested and compared ... maybe, just maybe, it is just great!
I appreciate Ollie's comparison of carbon fiber to Gore's Shakedry membrane, which I agree was a a nearly miraculous product. It appears that Shakedry's replacement has now hit the market with two new rain jackets from Rapha. "Shakedry" isn''t mentioned, but Rapha states that the jacket is PFAS-free and "waterproof," and it definitely carries the Shakedry price premium. I hope GCN will test the jacket soon.
Not aware of that but non PFAS materials do not help water proofing.
All four main materials have their own characteristics and will suit different people's needs accordingly. The only material I don't have a bike made from is titanium, but plan to do so one day. And depending on the type of ride and conditions I choose accordingly. Wet and windy or for commute/shopping, alloy (with mudguards and maybe panniers). Fast club rides or races, carbon. Relaxed/cafe rides, steel (unless in bad weather).
The development of steel bikes would make a good tech topic. In the 40s and 50s Reynolds 531 was the tube of choice for frame builders in the UK, but developed even lighter and stronger tubing in subsequent years and a 725 or 953 tube frame is noticeably lighter, stiffer and stronger than a 531.
I think the problem with buying (at least new) aluminium bikes is that most of the aluminium bikes sold with Sora max, even 105 is not often provided; you don't really see them selling you an ultegra aluminium bikes, and 105 Di2 I also couldn't really find