Carbon bikes will multiply. Look at prices today, so many low end bikes are now in carbon. Why buy a heavier aluminium bike with weldings made by welders that made the Titanic. Carbon bikes are nicer looking and will become cheaper than aluminium with automation and volume production. Steel bikes only exists because small bespoke shops find it easier to weld. Aluminium bikes exist because small productions in Asia can produce them by hand without expensive equipment.
Your next bike is alloy because of the technical improvements and aerodynamics (I didn't watch the video yet). My next bike is alloy because I am poor. We are not the same.
Hehe. For every day use I will always look for alloy bikes when people ask me for advice. Unless the person is loaded with cash and can afford 2 bikes, go for the durable/rugged one before dumping cash into a hobby.
The aluminium discussion reminds me of when Specialized did a limited release Allez Smartweld S-Works version that was super light and performed amazing in sprints.
That was my first thought as well (looks like a battery). I sometimes worry people might think my Cervélo is an e-bike because of the é logo and the large bottom bracket shell.
@@ukestjohnnope. orbea already have ebikes with the battery integrated inside the downtube (i have one), so there's no way they would change that design and expose the battery on the outside like this and make it look uglier.
With Aluminium theres a possibility with hydroformed tubing. You can make them look modern and like a smooth carbon frame.Price for performance Aluminum i can see making a comeback. Steel its harder for me to see unless theres a resurgance of people wanting the look of an old school round tube bike. Titanium is to expensive and much more expensive to produce a bike frame. Being a steel bike lover. Id love to see a comeback.
Oh I've known for years now that my next bike WILL 100% NOT be carbon :D It will be titanium :) Carbon bikes are for athletes and people interested in racing, and I'm neither :)
do it. I bought a Baum Titanium bike 2 years ago after being sick of poorly made carbon frames that fracture if you look at them with bespoke parts that are out of stock after 5 years. Best decision ever.
I ride both carbon and steel. Custom steel for the long endurance rides and bling style. Carbon for the super stiff sprint filled rides of 20-25 miles. It's nice to have both. I used to ride a Ti bike but found it was a bit of a compromise in both directions.
The advent of wider tires has made a big difference. For most riders the most compelling reason for carbon over aluminum was comfort and still lightweight. Now that people are riding around on 32 mm tires lightweight aluminum isn't uncomfortable.
Man, aluminum with carbon wheels and 25 is what I ride now and feels amazing, better than carbon bikes that I had, and the bike is 12 y.o., ok I’m in search of a new bike, but this was my first and I still think is very good, I’ll buy a new bike only because it is rim brake and I want a disc brake one 🤷♂️
I just bought my first carbon bike, Otso Waheela w/shimano GRX 11 speed for $2400 because it's the 2022 model, the current year frame only is $2700. 2.1" tire clearance and just over 20lbs no complaints.
Love the Endurace AL I bought last year to replace my 30 year old Cannondale R300 (still hanging on wall, though). I lost 7 kg since March so no need for carbon fiber.
Yay, my track bike just got a Supernice! And I don't think Ollie even realized I'm the guy who sent him the Shimano 100 book way back in Tech Show 203.
I have a Cannondale CAAD13 Disk 105 . . . pretty basic aluminum alloy "race bike" . . . Have about 8,000 miles on it and it's been terrific. Keeps up in the paceline when we're running along at 22-and even up 24-25MPH and handles very well. I weigh @ 170 pounds. I am a crappy climber, but I can't blame that on the bike :) I think the best upgrade that I can add to this bike, to improve performance, would be some nice carbon wheels . . . I think they'll make a nice difference. Happy riding.
Not sold on the service box, a perfect place to catch all the crud off the road, pros will ride what there paid to and whatever the industry wants to promote
Just bought my new bike and its not carbon. I went for Titanium. I do a lot of bikepacking including internationally and so need something that is comfortable to ride, is less likely to be broken in transit and I also wanted a bike that will outlast me (at 54, I'm similar age to Dan Lloyd, so hopefully decades of riding left to do).
@@gcntechLOL. Do you think anyone over the age of 30 will wake up and say “hey, I want to go pro” and be immediately picked up by a team? Or anyone lacking a room-sized ego will spend an absurd amount of money on a bike whose potential greatly exceeds their physical abilities? This past time attracts a lot of poseurs and wannabes, but never enough to satisfy corporate appetites.
I like carbon fibre as much as anyone on my TT/Performance bike. But I have a gravel commuter that I spent most time riding and I have spent more time effort caring for it compared to my training bikes. Being able to lock it up and not dreading some bumps/knicks makes me feel like can use it as a training tool and not an expensive piece of tech. So the gravel bike has gotten upgrades like several sets of tires, detachable fenders, semi-hyraulic brakes, premium cables/housing... So for a alloy bike it is getting most of my attention 😅
I' ve had 2 caad12 bikes. Loved their handling, but after 20.000 kilometers the first frame broke at seattube junction. Got a replacement, which did 10.000 k more, then broke at the same spot. Got a caad13 replacement, which was toast after 5.500 k (broken seattube at bottle cage). I weight 105 kg, but do no sprints, no off road etc. Modern lightweight alloy bikes are not rugged. They are the least rugged bikes out there.
i'm 61kg, the bike is 7kg, and my 2014 allez is still running well. everything on it is pretty much CF, but the bar/stem/frame - but its survived many trips to different countries, every kind of weather conditions, a bit of racing, mostly road ridden, but i've even done some light gravel and less technical single track. its probably about at around 90,000km now but the frame is going strong. so its not fair to blanket statement everything.
My last new bike was aluminium. Priced right and performs fine. Unlikely to explode on a trail. Perfect. I have a fleet of steel vintage bikes as well. Ageless and lovely to ride. Who will be riding 45 year old carbon bikes in years to come.
Thanks for finally saying it Ollie, our local landfills have more carbon frames in them than even your local dentists garage, amazed but not surprised that governments aren't remotely interested in doing anything about it, a lot of people have forgotten that bicycles are supposed to be a better alternative to other forms of transport
@@ZebraLemur what nonsense. A carbon frame lasting or being used for 20 years? Unlikely. Also solid waste per person - most of this is either biodegradable or recyclable. And of course metal framed bikes get recycled if they’re taken to a recycling facility.
I have Pinarello 1992 with Campagnolo SuperRecord, Trek Alumininium frame with Shimano 105 (2010) (gone), Specialized Diverge with Shimano GRX (2022) (my daughter has it now) and custom Ti frame with SRAM XPLR. From all these bikes, the 1992 Pinarello is still AMAZING bike to ride. Feels and rides great. Is it the fastest, lightest, etc, bike? No, it is not. But it rides like a dream. I love to go for up to 20km rides on it for pure enjoyment. the custom Ti frame is designed to be single bike with two wheel-sets, one road and one gravel. The lateral stiffness is 10/10 and the vertical compliance is 6/10. With titanium and steel you can design such frame. Went with titanium frame, as from my experience with high end steel, it will last forever. Group sets change and as they age out become very expensive (I dread the moment when looking for original Campagnolo, but they look just beautiful). Now here is the most important part, 55 yo with about 87kg. Is the bike 1-2 kilo heavier or lighter, don't care much, as much I enjoy the ride and the time with the frineds out on the road. I hope to keep my custom Ti bike for next 20 years and enjoy many, many great rides
If your next high end bike is alloy, it's because that's what the manufacturers want, and the thoughtless will bite as they do for every manufacturing ploy, because we've all bought enough carbon bikes and the sales are slowing..
The only reason that most carbon fiber road bikes are so expensive is because of greedy manufacturers. They cost a small fraction to manufacture than what some brands are selling them for.
I just started crit racing on my steel gravel bike with road tyres and I couldn't agree more about tyres changing feel more than the frame. I was planning to racing on a carbon bike but unfortunately cracked the frame. Well the crit season started so I put narrow bars on my Norco search. First race was hard, got dropped because I was on gravel tyres, second race I had 28mm race tyres with tpu tubes and finished 5th in the final sprint with the same time as the winners only held back by gearing. I am however still looking forward to a bike under 11kgs 😂.
I have a carbon, aluminum, titanium & steel, the 2 I don’t see myself ever getting rid of are the Alu CAAD 10 & the Lynskey Ti. Good show today boys..!
Hope it never happens to you but I had a stressed aluminium frame and I rear ended a car. Pushed the forks out of place and bent the down tube. But the telling thing were the stress fractures you could see on that down tube.
I'm a big guy who likes to ride his bikes for years, so no way I'll trust Carbon for that. I mostly ride titanium, it's for life. And ever since Brennan Wertz won the 2024 USA Cycling Gravel National Championships on a titanium bike, there's no reason to not ride them even at the highest level. Yes, they are slightly heavier, but he's a massive guy with a ridiculous power output, and he wanted a bike that could handle his efforts.
I have had all those carbon bikes (buy and sell is my business). I have the latest Venge, Tarmac and supersix evo all on carbon wheels and di2. Now At 34 y/o I found myself assembling a relax steel bike (Soma Wolverine) with aluminum wheelset. I dont know. It comes with age
I would love for the industry to return to steel for mass production. Decades of material science have produced comparable options, but nothing strictly "better" on all fronts, especially for the average rider.
@凸Bebo凸 I am very doubtful of this claim. Better usually means: lighter, more aero, cheaper, better longevity, weather/uv resistance, impact resistance, more attractive appearance, vibration damping, dimensionally stable with moisture/heat/age It might have great vibration resistance and impact but it has a lot of negatives. A steel frame would beat out bamboo in every category, except maybe vibration, which is a bit of a moot point when considering tires/wheels are 99% of vibration damping.
Lucky to own a Tarmac SL8 and Allez Sprint. Identical parts down to the wheels and tires. Everything besides the frame. Close my eyes, I couldn't tell you the difference.
@@TK-nc3ou placebo. Carbon bikes are being made stiffer and stiffer. You physically do not have the perceptual capability to tell the difference between NVH of frame materials when its all being swamped out by larger tire volumes.
@@cjohnson3836 I can tell the difference between carbon, steel and Alu on gigantic 35mm tires, not true. 38-40mm is where they all start to blend together like you are claiming.
@@凸Bebo凸 No, you can't. There's a million other things that are playing out. Shape of the stays. How much exposed seat post. Shape of the head tube. How much stack in spacers you are running. Handlebars. How was the steerer constructed between each fork (this even varies between carbon forks on the same frame). You very literally do not have the ability to perceive through all those difference. And the dampening/rebound of the tires (going to vary even within model) produces an effect size much larger than any of those effects. Physics is physics and neurobiology is neurobiology.
@@cjohnson3836 If you ride fixed gear it's very noticeable. Be glad you can't perceive it and can enjoy your crappy Alu bikes. It's a curse to be able to feel this stuff. You sound like you've been watching too many CYCLINGABOUT videos. That guy just wants to sell you 9000 dollar Alu bikes, don't listen to him, haha.
Wow! I never thought that biomechanics, based on research in nature, would finally arrive on bikes as well. The weird shape of that track bike's seattube with its horizontal grooves is based on the natural form of the fins of a Humpback whale. Studies showed that the fin's frontal grooves drastically reduce drag despite its very odd looking shape. And now it's on bikes as well...
I have my steel/alloy Battaglin that I am most happy with. I am older, slower than I used to be, but that bike rides great and looks fabulous, all I want.
Third try in the bike vault and now I got in … and my new Titanium Kocmo ticked all boxes. Thanks for all your work! I follow you for years now. You are supernice. And in the end my bike is supernice too. ❤ …and it is not made of carbon.
Good bike fit, tyres, saddle, bars/bars tape and pedals make the biggest difference in ride feel. Frame and fork material only makes a difference when you start going up hill.
@@PRH123 is that difference more or less than a good set of tyres, bars and bar tape though? At the end of the day it's up to everyone what they want and prefer to ride. I just think a lot of people believe what they're being told, can they feel the difference? 99.9% can't. So why pay more just for hype. If bike brands created only their very top tier out of carbon and the rest of their range from "other" cheaper materials and bikes were in general a grand cheaper would people be happier? The industry makes bikes from carbon because the markup is bigger. They're in the business of making money. If the markup was less we wouldn't be riding carbon bikes. It's really simple. But if people are happy and they're riding with a smile on their face. That's OK with me. 😊👍
I bought my Merlin Ti bike 1993 - truly a "lifetime bike" but not so very lifetime in terms of components. The press fit bottom bracket with a square end spindle being one example. After moving to mostly Mountain Biking, I commuted on it, literally for decades. I just rebuilt it again and finding compatible parts (especially compatible bottom bracket bearings) was an adventure, so to speak.
If I’m being honest with myself, alloy is really all I need… but carbon is definitely what I want. Cycling is a hobby that keeps me fit and I’m grateful that I’m able to spend a little more on it than I really *need* to.
Thank god I’m ahead of the curve this time, Found a used titanium mtb, converted it to a 700c bike and drop bars, now it’s like a dad bike but in titanium, so I guess I’m set for a couple more years. I just need someone who can weld on titanium and add disc brake mounts and additional bracing for the bike and It would be a great forever bike 🥰
I chose a titanium bike (VA Moots) over a carbon fiber one due to the vibration-dampening characteristics of the metal. It does have a carbon fork and the recovery time after a long ride is less than carbon or aluminium.
I've got a carbon roadie, a steel fixie commuter, scandium/aluminium track bike and an aluminium MTB. Can definitely see a departure from carbon as the meagre weight and stiffness gains can't compete with the price, repairability, and robustness of alloy in my opinion. If I bought a carbon bike for offroad I'd be constantly worried about a rock cracking the front of the down tube, maybe that's an unfounded fear though?
The shop where I work sells many steel and chromoly bikes for people who want a forever frame and something that can survive the rigors of riding with packs (and the implied increase in weight) for gravel touring and city commuting. I think people appreciate that carbon saves kilos but often don't appreciate its stiffness among other performance aspects. But carbon pricing continues to be out of reach for most folks. The riders who want a performance bike are going to be fine with the price and typically want the better component technology, etc. too. I am glad that so many less big brands not seen in competitive cycling exist to provide quality bikes for people who want a good bike. But then a lot of new riders are still influenced by brand recognition as their starting point, so they see aluminium Big Brands and carbon spaceships and get intimidated by it all. So it would overall be nice for big brands to embrace steel and other materials to get more bikes for everyone. Also I agree with Ollie that we need to consider sustainability and the environment when it comes down to it.
Luis Scott and Reginald Scot both feel there's been an industry-led effort to cast shade on steel as an option. As a returner to cycling after extended hiatus, I only have experience of riding steel and aluminium. Reynolds 853, Columbus SL/X and Spirit The pick of the materials. 6061 T6 the worst ride. My bike is bang on 8kg. I could replace the Ksyrium Elites with a pair of Winspace, a carbon saddle and seatpost to easily bring down to 7.5kg. But I ride for health on cold crappy road surfaces, not for trophy's. What's 1200 quid for a half kilo compared to the 4+ kg i've shed in bodyweight in past year by eating well and running/cycling. Riding my upgrades.. not buying it.
I could see a major bike brand follow small builders and make a nice steel bike for two reasons: steel is still stylish. A supple steel bike that isn't overbuilt has a very nice ride quality, and can still be quite light.
I appreciate Ollie's comparison of carbon fiber to Gore's Shakedry membrane, which I agree was a a nearly miraculous product. It appears that Shakedry's replacement has now hit the market with two new rain jackets from Rapha. "Shakedry" isn''t mentioned, but Rapha states that the jacket is PFAS-free and "waterproof," and it definitely carries the Shakedry price premium. I hope GCN will test the jacket soon.
Rule #1 - Pros will ride and endorse whatever their paymasters supply. Rule #2 - Big bike brands will make/sell whatever is easier to market and has the biggest profit margin. And don't forget aluminum frames have to be overbuilt to keep the flex cycles low enough to ensure a reasonable lifespan before the inevitable failure. Scandium'? Been there, done that. So many of them failed the material fell out of favor rather quickly, maybe back when you guys were still pedaling a plastic "Big Wheel" around mummy's garden?
Alex, yes you are right! The pedals that are flat one side and have spd the other are underrated. They are great for bike packing and touring and also if you have to do a lot of urban riding. You can easily change your foot position on long rides and you don't have to worry about unclipping when you are faced with endless traffic lights in town. I used them on LEJOG and my length of Japan ride. They are great!
Cannondale Caad 12 with 28mm tires is the most fun bike I’ve ever ridden! I could probably invest in making it even more fun but I’m hoping it last for several more years!
Is not the cost of carbon fibre not just the R&D but also the _labour_ required to do the layup? Given most of those bikes seem to have at least a hundred different custom pieces cut out (which can be automated) -- but then, crucially, they have to be laid into the mould by hand, according to a meticulous lay-up plan? Whereas a frame created by additive manufacturing processes (aka 'printed') is still going to have similar R&D costs (aero design at a minimum, but other costs too, e.g. which pieces can be printed in what order), however, the cost base of manufacturing then becomes the _capital outlay_ on the machines, not so much the _labour_ cost? Then the _cost per piece_ gets less and less as you make more and more pieces. As opposed to a traditional carbon layup, which, if it takes say four hours to do it by hand, that money can never be reduced other than by driving the labour cost down. I'm over-simplifying of course; especially in ignoring the material costs. Also, obviously there's still a quite a bit of capital costs in setting up a carbon frame plant, and unless you can print the whole frame at once, there's still some assembly and finishing required for a printed frame. But imagine you could design a frame that could be printed all in one go. You could then churn these out 24 hours a day, once R&D is accounted for, the material costs, electricity, and capital amortization of the machines are nearly all of your manufacturing cost base.
Don't worry I am not ever going to be on a carbon bike , as I have my forever bike and its Titanium !! I prefer metal bikes, alloy, Ti, steel or even Magnesium !!! I wouldn't ride a carbon frame, they have a shorter lifespan than metal frames and is bad for the environment ! . I ride for fun and do long days int he saddle over road and gravel: "Performance" is far less important that comfort and durability, for this modern metal bikes are always better imo.
The most important things for bike performance and comfort are tires, wheels, and bike fit. For most of us, the frame doesn't matter as long as it will fit the wheels and tires you want and it fits you. Seems like the future of bike brands should be custom fit steel/Al/Ti frames.
Reynolds 531 tubing! I know it's outperformed by many other materials, be it alu alloys, titanium, carbon or more modern steel alloys. I just like the look of classic road bikes and the ride quality speaks for itself.
@@marcusathome I’m no weight weenie. I’m just not carrying a 9kg - 10kg ‘road bike’ up a flight of stairs. Even gravel bikes that provide more comfort and faster are lighter than that 🤣
Agree, I have a 2010 Colnago EPS , in 2010 there wasn't the understanding on where and where not to put different types of carbon fibre for stiffness , compliance etc... Colnago went to Germany and purchased Ferrari grade HM carbon fibre to enable them to build the stiffest frameset possible. However, as the comments in the video, I was lucky that the frame accepts modern 28mm tyres , these run at 70 psi have been a real gamechanger to what was previously a skateboard
I have 2 steel and 2 carbon bikes.. still love my steelies.. Volare 931 Stainless and Condor Acciaio Columbus Spirt :) love my carbon Cannondales to of course :) Pete
Steel is real, but titanium gets all up in your cranium, yo! I have a Lynskey R240 with mechanical shifting, rim brakes, and exposed cables. It's virtually bombproof and easy to work on. It's stiff enough yet comfortable. It's also stable, but responsive enough to flick around a surprise pothole without feeling twitchy. Unfortunately the one limitation (after me, of course) is that the triangle only has clearance for a 25c tire. Otherwise , it's a fantastic bike that does everything I need it to for road riding and even some light duty mixed surface riding in dry conditions. For those who will say I am a retro grouch because of the rim brakes, I have a newer Lynskey with disc brakes, too. I like the R240 better.
One of my bikes has a $99 aluminum house brand frame circa 2009, built up with some pretty high end spare parts I had. I really just built it because I had the stuff lying around. I’ve also got carbon and Ti bikes…and honestly, if you didn’t know, you would never guess the frame was so much cheaper based on ride quality.
Bought a Crux DSW this summer. Such a fantastic bike and very happy with the purchase! And with bikepacking in mind, i’m just more comfortable with an Alu frame :)
6:44 I had a Scott G-Zero from around 2000-2010 and that had a Scandium alloy rear swing arm. As an alloy used for frames etc. it’s been around for a while.
I consider myself to be very lucky to own an S-Works Allez from 2014, in a 54cm the frame weighs 1050g and built with Dura Ace 9000 and 1500g carbon wheels, it’s comfortably under 7kg. And rides as nice as a Tarmac SL5 (which I also have) but feels somehow more connected and alive. I don’t think we’ll see the likes of it again now discs have taken over given that your average £5000 carbon disc bike weighs 7.5kg+. It’s not all about weight, but it doesn’t hurt to have a 6.xxkg bike if you can.
A while ago I decided to buy a new bike with an alloy frame, so far so good. Apart from the obvious price saving, I also like the design and the "people" groupset that goes with it. As a non-professional cyclist, I believe that alloy bikes are a great option to fully enjoy the sport, while avoiding some of the unaffordable prices of carbon bikes. PS: I've already uploaded my bike to The Bikevault, just to say. 😅
All four main materials have their own characteristics and will suit different people's needs accordingly. The only material I don't have a bike made from is titanium, but plan to do so one day. And depending on the type of ride and conditions I choose accordingly. Wet and windy or for commute/shopping, alloy (with mudguards and maybe panniers). Fast club rides or races, carbon. Relaxed/cafe rides, steel (unless in bad weather). The development of steel bikes would make a good tech topic. In the 40s and 50s Reynolds 531 was the tube of choice for frame builders in the UK, but developed even lighter and stronger tubing in subsequent years and a 725 or 953 tube frame is noticeably lighter, stiffer and stronger than a 531.
Excellent show. I agree that metal bikes are the future. Carbon fibre will be replaced with some new super technology. That Orbea is stunning though the toolbox spoils it.
Material science has so much to offer to alter bike frames. You have the 2D material shennanigans like Graphene and the nanotubes made from them. Even if it's expensive per gram, you can add it to your tire rubber mix and get amazing strength increases. If you ditch the carbon fiber for graphene fiber, you'd save another 10% - 20% in weight, while gaining strength. And that's just one material. Hacksmith showcased a coating that increases the strength of any material massively even when used in micrometer thicknesses. Imagine coating your chain with it. It could make all mechanical parts 10x lighter. Or all the fun you could have with chain waxes. Using a phase change material for your wax, so that it is hard when in rest and repells dirt, but liquid inside the bearings. One of the wackier ideas I've had is an inflatable bicycle, where everything but the mechanical components are inflated. You'd need a ridiciulous amount of pressure, but a graphene reinforced rubber could do that.
Crazy fact that's just occurred to me: I've never had an aluminium bike! I've had a couple of carbon, one titanium and a number of steel bikes (I go back to the age where all you could get for kids bikes was steel).
I love my carbon bike, I really do (2021 Canyon Ultimate). But I really want a metal bike to replace it when the time comes. A couple of chain drops caused some nasty damage to the bottom bracket which cost over £350 to put right. Thing about metal is you don't need to be so paranoid about the structural implications of small nicks and scrapes / dents. Also way easier to strip down and respray once out of warranty - strip it down, put it in a blaster and you are ready to go. So the carbon bike has been a novelty, but I'm ready to return to a metal one next time round. But not for stupid money.
The carbon version of my aluminum Trek Domane was $1500 more for a weight savings of 0.83 kg. I have not ridden both bikes back to back, so I don't know about ride quality, but I do love my bike and have no regrets. As for the cost of sports cars vs bikes, my used Porsche Boxster cost me less than the Moots CRD I keep drooling over.... Sigh....
I read scandium as an alloying element never disappeared from the formula of many tubing manufacturers (eg. easton) for their top alu profucts, but it just wasnt marketed as such
I ride steel framed bikes and always have, they have the feel of steel and the thin round tubes look good. They also last a lifetime, my oldest steel frame is 74 years old, still good and never repaired.
Interesting, a couple of days ago, I read an article about custom bikes done by Rodriguez in Seattle, where it is claimed that he manufactures custom STEEL bikes, which are lighter than top carbon bikes. I was quite surprised, to be honest. Steel lighter than carbon? Seeing is believing.
I would love to see more lightweight steel frames from larger companies at reasonable price points. I recently rode quite a lightweight Ritchie frame that was at least as enjoyable to ride as any other bike and about $1500 US for the frame.
It's ok to own more than one bike. I ride carbon and I ride steel. Both do what they are meant to do beautifully. One is stiff and the other has a lively spring to it. I find alloy and titanium to hit neither of these marks, and these are the qualities I look for in a frame.
Don't understand why longevity/robustness is never mentioned when discussing frame materials. Most consumers, even if they do want to ride fast, care about their bikes and want something they can cherish and will last them a long time. Carbon is so much more likely to break in a crash or if the bike falls over - very expensive, and you can lose something you love. People are drifting to alloy/titanium/steel becasue they want something strong that will last them.
Standards have really slipped. No way Manon would have passed over that Canyon TT bike without commenting that it was in “biggie smalls, but the pedals weren’t horizontal”…keep up the good work chaps.
I've gotten rid of all but one of my carbon bikes, a model I've just always wanted. I now ride a custom steel and a titanium frame as my daily riders. One, I'm just older now and can't go as fast so why do I need a carbon bike. Two, all the carbon bikes seem to be the same and make the same claims of lighter, stiffer, more aero, that there's not much difference from one model to the next. Once the new one comes out, the previous one becomes quickly outdated. So, I stuck with more classic double triangle frames that ride so nicely. My custom steel frame costs as much as a high end carbon frame but I appreciate the craftsmanship put into it, it's classic look, fits like a glove, and it's one of a kind.
I’ve had (broke) a couple of carbon fiber mountain bikes, but I now ride a Hydro formed aluminum framed bike. The weight difference is negligible, and they are significantly more compliant than they used to be.
I had one carbon one. Never again. Sturdiness and silence are the best features of metal. I even prefer steel. (my LBS told me, that more people ask for steel)
Would be great if you could do a pro ike review on that custom art ENVE, espicially if you could track down the tattoo artist for an interview. Amazing looking bike
Still have my carbon road bike, but have now moved to a Titanium Gravel Bike. Always wanted a pure Ti road bike after I saw a mates Litespeed, but price was the problem, until Ti Gravel bikes and cycle 2 work :-)
😭. I just bought a Cannondale Topstone Carbon gravel bike, I love the bike rides smoother than anything I’ve ridden in years. Finally got a carbon fiber bike and now you’re saying it’s gonna be old tech in a couple years 😂. Oh well I’m gonna ride this thing till it falls apart. I definitely can’t afford to buy a new bike every couple years.
The Specialized SWorks Alloy with full DuraAce and Corima rims was 6.8 kg in 2004. Mine has Ultegra. 7.2 kg with bottle cage and computer. This compares with today's bikes.
I would suggest that it could also be Titanium and not just aluminium based alloys. In the aerospace industry, especially in jet turbines, superplastic forming of titanium at temperatures just above 1000 degC is used to manufacture hollow fan blades of incredible strength and low weight despite their enormous sizes. The technique can be used to make complex shaped tubes but also more complex parts such as BB intersection of 3 or 4 tubes.
The 2018 US Pro Champs was won by Johnny Brown on an Allez Sprint. My current 52 cm Allez Sprint weighs 16.5 lbs with pedals, bottle cages. Biggest difference between it and my SWorks SL8 is rdie quality. Not true that you can tune the ride quality to match carbon. But it's the low cost of aluminum frames seems lke what the industry needs to make quality bikes at lower prices. When Brown won the champs, however, Specialized gave the win zero publicity.
Scandium alloy frames were pretty common in the late 90's. I prefer alu bikes, but it's pretty much impossible to get one "off the rack" with decent components. I'd rather have a good alu bike with dura ace instead of a carbon bike with ultegra. Selling the alu bikes afterwards is a nightmare too since people on the 2nd hand market seems to be carbon or nothing.
With the rise of 3D printed Titanium tech I think that will bring it back to light. You got bikes from BeSpoke Brands, No22, Bossi, etc already using 3D printed Titanium on some killer Aero road bikes.
It’s not the bike it’s the legs powering the bike. I have a steel framed road bike, alloy gravel bike. Both under 8.5 kilos I moved away from carbon due to my size and damaging the frames. I’m just as fast on both bikes as my friends on 12k carbon bikes, I’m just more comfortable due to the compliance in the bikes but more importantly I can weld them back together if I crack or damage them 🤘
What do you think the future holds for carbon fibre bikes? 🚲 👇
They will not be a bread and butter but definitively will remain as a delicacy.
This is something I didn't even think could happen..
Carbon fiber bikes will cost tens of thousands.. and aluminum bikes 10,000..
Blends. Look in to Time's dyneema blends, Ollie would love to discuss that!
Carbon bikes will multiply. Look at prices today, so many low end bikes are now in carbon. Why buy a heavier aluminium bike with weldings made by welders that made the Titanic. Carbon bikes are nicer looking and will become cheaper than aluminium with automation and volume production.
Steel bikes only exists because small bespoke shops find it easier to weld.
Aluminium bikes exist because small productions in Asia can produce them by hand without expensive equipment.
Aluminium bikes are cheaper, the market will decide the outcome.
Your next bike is alloy because of the technical improvements and aerodynamics (I didn't watch the video yet). My next bike is alloy because I am poor. We are not the same.
Hehe. For every day use I will always look for alloy bikes when people ask me for advice. Unless the person is loaded with cash and can afford 2 bikes, go for the durable/rugged one before dumping cash into a hobby.
😂
Even poor people cant afford alloy bikes with these prices
this comment is criminally under-thumbs upped
I would rather have an aluminum bike with an extra $1500 dollars worth of wheels.
The aluminium discussion reminds me of when Specialized did a limited release Allez Smartweld S-Works version that was super light and performed amazing in sprints.
The service box on the Orbea looks like a battery. We can't be having that.
When you go uphill, everyone will realise it's not electric 😃
I think that , in the future, Orbea will replace this with a battery, making a very acceptable e-bike.
That box looks like a hideous afterthought.
That was my first thought as well (looks like a battery). I sometimes worry people might think my Cervélo is an e-bike because of the é logo and the large bottom bracket shell.
@@ukestjohnnope. orbea already have ebikes with the battery integrated inside the downtube (i have one), so there's no way they would change that design and expose the battery on the outside like this and make it look uglier.
Yay my Grevil got a Supernice at the end - spent ages on that photo :-) thanks Alex and Ollie.
With Aluminium theres a possibility with hydroformed tubing. You can make them look modern and like a smooth carbon frame.Price for performance Aluminum i can see making a comeback. Steel its harder for me to see unless theres a resurgance of people wanting the look of an old school round tube bike. Titanium is to expensive and much more expensive to produce a bike frame. Being a steel bike lover. Id love to see a comeback.
Oh I've known for years now that my next bike WILL 100% NOT be carbon :D It will be titanium :) Carbon bikes are for athletes and people interested in racing, and I'm neither :)
do it. I bought a Baum Titanium bike 2 years ago after being sick of poorly made carbon frames that fracture if you look at them with bespoke parts that are out of stock after 5 years. Best decision ever.
I ride both carbon and steel. Custom steel for the long endurance rides and bling style. Carbon for the super stiff sprint filled rides of 20-25 miles. It's nice to have both. I used to ride a Ti bike but found it was a bit of a compromise in both directions.
@@MacuhdohnadadohJust out of curiosity, which brand and model of ti bike did you have?
@@richm.3477 litespeed t2
The advent of wider tires has made a big difference. For most riders the most compelling reason for carbon over aluminum was comfort and still lightweight. Now that people are riding around on 32 mm tires lightweight aluminum isn't uncomfortable.
Man, aluminum with carbon wheels and 25 is what I ride now and feels amazing, better than carbon bikes that I had, and the bike is 12 y.o., ok I’m in search of a new bike, but this was my first and I still think is very good, I’ll buy a new bike only because it is rim brake and I want a disc brake one 🤷♂️
Even more so with ever widening tyres the frame material in general matters less and less. So then, more steel again?
@@feedbackzaloop agreed 😁
I just think that carbon fiber having low durability makes it a pro-only choice, and us peasants should stay with alloys.
Ride a lot, crash a few times, titanium will be the top of your list.
I just bought my first carbon bike, Otso Waheela w/shimano GRX 11 speed for $2400 because it's the 2022 model, the current year frame only is $2700.
2.1" tire clearance and just over 20lbs no complaints.
Love the Endurace AL I bought last year to replace my 30 year old Cannondale R300 (still hanging on wall, though). I lost 7 kg since March so no need for carbon fiber.
Yay, my track bike just got a Supernice! And I don't think Ollie even realized I'm the guy who sent him the Shimano 100 book way back in Tech Show 203.
Surely He had forgotten about it before you mentioned it 😂
@@gcntech I'm just as happy that Alex had forgotten, he said he was "incredibly jealous" at the time and I'm glad he didn't hold anything against me.
I have a Cannondale CAAD13 Disk 105 . . . pretty basic aluminum alloy "race bike" . . . Have about 8,000 miles on it and it's been terrific. Keeps up in the paceline when we're running along at 22-and even up 24-25MPH and handles very well. I weigh @ 170 pounds. I am a crappy climber, but I can't blame that on the bike :) I think the best upgrade that I can add to this bike, to improve performance, would be some nice carbon wheels . . . I think they'll make a nice difference. Happy riding.
*Magnesium Alloy frames.*
Light, strong & aero shapes for tubing.
Also, cheaper than CF.
Not sold on the service box, a perfect place to catch all the crud off the road, pros will ride what there paid to and whatever the industry wants to promote
Just bought my new bike and its not carbon. I went for Titanium. I do a lot of bikepacking including internationally and so need something that is comfortable to ride, is less likely to be broken in transit and I also wanted a bike that will outlast me (at 54, I'm similar age to Dan Lloyd, so hopefully decades of riding left to do).
I presume you meant 34?
@@daniellloyd100 I wish I was LOL
@daniellloyd100 34 last 20yrs
yes from direct impact carbon is fragile, but titanium frames are more likely to crack due to milage
@@diogonascimento6470. Source?
My favorite bike is made of steel. It has a carbon fiber fork and alloy wheels. I don't care what the pros ride. I am not a pro, and I never will be.
Me too. Ride for enjoyment and fitness.
Well, never say never 😂
@@gcntechLOL. Do you think anyone over the age of 30 will wake up and say “hey, I want to go pro” and be immediately picked up by a team? Or anyone lacking a room-sized ego will spend an absurd amount of money on a bike whose potential greatly exceeds their physical abilities?
This past time attracts a lot of poseurs and wannabes, but never enough to satisfy corporate appetites.
You can always be an influencer to pick up a bike sponsorship.
@@newttella1043 The industry term for that is “sock puppet”.
I like carbon fibre as much as anyone on my TT/Performance bike. But I have a gravel commuter that I spent most time riding and I have spent more time effort caring for it compared to my training bikes.
Being able to lock it up and not dreading some bumps/knicks makes me feel like can use it as a training tool and not an expensive piece of tech.
So the gravel bike has gotten upgrades like several sets of tires, detachable fenders, semi-hyraulic brakes, premium cables/housing... So for a alloy bike it is getting most of my attention 😅
I' ve had 2 caad12 bikes. Loved their handling, but after 20.000 kilometers the first frame broke at seattube junction. Got a replacement, which did 10.000 k more, then broke at the same spot. Got a caad13 replacement, which was toast after 5.500 k (broken seattube at bottle cage). I weight 105 kg, but do no sprints, no off road etc. Modern lightweight alloy bikes are not rugged. They are the least rugged bikes out there.
i'm 61kg, the bike is 7kg, and my 2014 allez is still running well. everything on it is pretty much CF, but the bar/stem/frame - but its survived many trips to different countries, every kind of weather conditions, a bit of racing, mostly road ridden, but i've even done some light gravel and less technical single track. its probably about at around 90,000km now but the frame is going strong. so its not fair to blanket statement everything.
My last new bike was aluminium. Priced right and performs fine. Unlikely to explode on a trail. Perfect.
I have a fleet of steel vintage bikes as well. Ageless and lovely to ride. Who will be riding 45 year old carbon bikes in years to come.
Thanks for finally saying it Ollie, our local landfills have more carbon frames in them than even your local dentists garage, amazed but not surprised that governments aren't remotely interested in doing anything about it, a lot of people have forgotten that bicycles are supposed to be a better alternative to other forms of transport
government interested in Bicycles and their waste?
@@High_Octane exactly.
Plastic bottles and trash bags outweigh carbon frames in landfills and the ocean 10 to 1. Government should start there first.
@@ZebraLemur what nonsense. A carbon frame lasting or being used for 20 years? Unlikely. Also solid waste per person - most of this is either biodegradable or recyclable. And of course metal framed bikes get recycled if they’re taken to a recycling facility.
I have Pinarello 1992 with Campagnolo SuperRecord, Trek Alumininium frame with Shimano 105 (2010) (gone), Specialized Diverge with Shimano GRX (2022) (my daughter has it now) and custom Ti frame with SRAM XPLR. From all these bikes, the 1992 Pinarello is still AMAZING bike to ride. Feels and rides great. Is it the fastest, lightest, etc, bike? No, it is not. But it rides like a dream. I love to go for up to 20km rides on it for pure enjoyment.
the custom Ti frame is designed to be single bike with two wheel-sets, one road and one gravel. The lateral stiffness is 10/10 and the vertical compliance is 6/10. With titanium and steel you can design such frame. Went with titanium frame, as from my experience with high end steel, it will last forever. Group sets change and as they age out become very expensive (I dread the moment when looking for original Campagnolo, but they look just beautiful).
Now here is the most important part, 55 yo with about 87kg. Is the bike 1-2 kilo heavier or lighter, don't care much, as much I enjoy the ride and the time with the frineds out on the road. I hope to keep my custom Ti bike for next 20 years and enjoy many, many great rides
If your next high end bike is alloy, it's because that's what the manufacturers want, and the thoughtless will bite as they do for every manufacturing ploy, because we've all bought enough carbon bikes and the sales are slowing..
The only reason that most carbon fiber road bikes are so expensive is because of greedy manufacturers. They cost a small fraction to manufacture than what some brands are selling them for.
I just started crit racing on my steel gravel bike with road tyres and I couldn't agree more about tyres changing feel more than the frame. I was planning to racing on a carbon bike but unfortunately cracked the frame. Well the crit season started so I put narrow bars on my Norco search. First race was hard, got dropped because I was on gravel tyres, second race I had 28mm race tyres with tpu tubes and finished 5th in the final sprint with the same time as the winners only held back by gearing. I am however still looking forward to a bike under 11kgs 😂.
I have a carbon, aluminum, titanium & steel, the 2 I don’t see myself ever getting rid of are the Alu CAAD 10 & the Lynskey Ti. Good show today boys..!
Hope it never happens to you but I had a stressed aluminium frame and I rear ended a car. Pushed the forks out of place and bent the down tube. But the telling thing were the stress fractures you could see on that down tube.
My Cannondale CAADi2 (CAAD12 with Di2) has come back into fashion! Cool. Never getting rid of it, knew it was the best that money could buy.
As someone here has said, long strand Kevlar fibers used by Time connect across so much resin that failures become as rare as aluminum failures.
I'm a big guy who likes to ride his bikes for years, so no way I'll trust Carbon for that. I mostly ride titanium, it's for life. And ever since Brennan Wertz won the 2024 USA Cycling Gravel National Championships on a titanium bike, there's no reason to not ride them even at the highest level. Yes, they are slightly heavier, but he's a massive guy with a ridiculous power output, and he wanted a bike that could handle his efforts.
I have had all those carbon bikes (buy and sell is my business).
I have the latest Venge, Tarmac and supersix evo all on carbon wheels and di2.
Now At 34 y/o I found myself assembling a relax steel bike (Soma Wolverine) with aluminum wheelset. I dont know. It comes with age
I would love for the industry to return to steel for mass production. Decades of material science have produced comparable options, but nothing strictly "better" on all fronts, especially for the average rider.
Much more aero shakes and a hell of a lot lighter
Steel is the best frame material but it's the same as it was 50 years ago. No new material science really.
Wood is making a comeback
@@ZebraLemur Bamboo is the best material for a geared road bike that isn't intended for racing, no arguments here.
@凸Bebo凸 I am very doubtful of this claim. Better usually means: lighter, more aero, cheaper, better longevity, weather/uv resistance, impact resistance, more attractive appearance, vibration damping, dimensionally stable with moisture/heat/age
It might have great vibration resistance and impact but it has a lot of negatives. A steel frame would beat out bamboo in every category, except maybe vibration, which is a bit of a moot point when considering tires/wheels are 99% of vibration damping.
I love my ALLEZ SPRINT, no different to carbon bikes, maybe 500g heavier but this is easy equalized with proper training and aerodynamic positioning
My allez sprint is my dream bike. Amazing bike.
Absolutely love my Sprint
Wish Specialized made it in a 44
Lucky to own a Tarmac SL8 and Allez Sprint.
Identical parts down to the wheels and tires. Everything besides the frame. Close my eyes, I couldn't tell you the difference.
where are you riding? on a perfectly smooth surface. carbon is WAY better in absorbing surface I mean... night and day!!!
@@TK-nc3ou placebo. Carbon bikes are being made stiffer and stiffer. You physically do not have the perceptual capability to tell the difference between NVH of frame materials when its all being swamped out by larger tire volumes.
@@cjohnson3836 I can tell the difference between carbon, steel and Alu on gigantic 35mm tires, not true. 38-40mm is where they all start to blend together like you are claiming.
@@凸Bebo凸 No, you can't. There's a million other things that are playing out. Shape of the stays. How much exposed seat post. Shape of the head tube. How much stack in spacers you are running. Handlebars. How was the steerer constructed between each fork (this even varies between carbon forks on the same frame). You very literally do not have the ability to perceive through all those difference. And the dampening/rebound of the tires (going to vary even within model) produces an effect size much larger than any of those effects. Physics is physics and neurobiology is neurobiology.
@@cjohnson3836 If you ride fixed gear it's very noticeable. Be glad you can't perceive it and can enjoy your crappy Alu bikes. It's a curse to be able to feel this stuff. You sound like you've been watching too many CYCLINGABOUT videos. That guy just wants to sell you 9000 dollar Alu bikes, don't listen to him, haha.
Wow! I never thought that biomechanics, based on research in nature, would finally arrive on bikes as well. The weird shape of that track bike's seattube with its horizontal grooves is based on the natural form of the fins of a Humpback whale. Studies showed that the fin's frontal grooves drastically reduce drag despite its very odd looking shape. And now it's on bikes as well...
I have my steel/alloy Battaglin that I am most happy with. I am older, slower than I used to be, but that bike rides great and looks fabulous, all I want.
Third try in the bike vault and now I got in … and my new Titanium Kocmo ticked all boxes. Thanks for all your work! I follow you for years now. You are supernice. And in the end my bike is supernice too. ❤ …and it is not made of carbon.
Good bike fit, tyres, saddle, bars/bars tape and pedals make the biggest difference in ride feel. Frame and fork material only makes a difference when you start going up hill.
hmm, carbon fork does make a big difference in feel
@@PRH123 is that difference more or less than a good set of tyres, bars and bar tape though? At the end of the day it's up to everyone what they want and prefer to ride. I just think a lot of people believe what they're being told, can they feel the difference? 99.9% can't. So why pay more just for hype. If bike brands created only their very top tier out of carbon and the rest of their range from "other" cheaper materials and bikes were in general a grand cheaper would people be happier? The industry makes bikes from carbon because the markup is bigger. They're in the business of making money. If the markup was less we wouldn't be riding carbon bikes. It's really simple. But if people are happy and they're riding with a smile on their face. That's OK with me. 😊👍
I bought my Merlin Ti bike 1993 - truly a "lifetime bike" but not so very lifetime in terms of components. The press fit bottom bracket with a square end spindle being one example. After moving to mostly Mountain Biking, I commuted on it, literally for decades. I just rebuilt it again and finding compatible parts (especially compatible bottom bracket bearings) was an adventure, so to speak.
You mean square taper spindle? Didn’t know that anyone ever made a press fit cartridge bearing BB with square taper, interesting.
Reynolds 931 and 953.
Here is the future. 953 is stainless. It will last forever. :-)
If I’m being honest with myself, alloy is really all I need… but carbon is definitely what I want. Cycling is a hobby that keeps me fit and I’m grateful that I’m able to spend a little more on it than I really *need* to.
Thank god I’m ahead of the curve this time, Found a used titanium mtb, converted it to a 700c bike and drop bars, now it’s like a dad bike but in titanium, so I guess I’m set for a couple more years. I just need someone who can weld on titanium and add disc brake mounts and additional bracing for the bike and It would be a great forever bike 🥰
I appreciate the note regarding environmental concerns driving the materials decisions. Kudos to that!
I chose a titanium bike (VA Moots) over a carbon fiber one due to the vibration-dampening characteristics of the metal. It does have a carbon fork and the recovery time after a long ride is less than carbon or aluminium.
Moots makes some sweet bikes!
I've got a carbon roadie, a steel fixie commuter, scandium/aluminium track bike and an aluminium MTB.
Can definitely see a departure from carbon as the meagre weight and stiffness gains can't compete with the price, repairability, and robustness of alloy in my opinion. If I bought a carbon bike for offroad I'd be constantly worried about a rock cracking the front of the down tube, maybe that's an unfounded fear though?
The shop where I work sells many steel and chromoly bikes for people who want a forever frame and something that can survive the rigors of riding with packs (and the implied increase in weight) for gravel touring and city commuting. I think people appreciate that carbon saves kilos but often don't appreciate its stiffness among other performance aspects. But carbon pricing continues to be out of reach for most folks. The riders who want a performance bike are going to be fine with the price and typically want the better component technology, etc. too. I am glad that so many less big brands not seen in competitive cycling exist to provide quality bikes for people who want a good bike. But then a lot of new riders are still influenced by brand recognition as their starting point, so they see aluminium Big Brands and carbon spaceships and get intimidated by it all. So it would overall be nice for big brands to embrace steel and other materials to get more bikes for everyone. Also I agree with Ollie that we need to consider sustainability and the environment when it comes down to it.
Cro moly isn't a forever frame. A strong rider can easily snap the bottom bracket off with stand up pedalling in a few years.
Luis Scott and Reginald Scot both feel there's been an industry-led effort to cast shade on steel as an option.
As a returner to cycling after extended hiatus, I only have experience of riding steel and aluminium. Reynolds 853, Columbus SL/X and Spirit The pick of the materials. 6061 T6 the worst ride. My bike is bang on 8kg. I could replace the Ksyrium Elites with a pair of Winspace, a carbon saddle and seatpost to easily bring down to 7.5kg. But I ride for health on cold crappy road surfaces, not for trophy's. What's 1200 quid for a half kilo compared to the 4+ kg i've shed in bodyweight in past year by eating well and running/cycling.
Riding my upgrades.. not buying it.
I could see a major bike brand follow small builders and make a nice steel bike for two reasons: steel is still stylish. A supple steel bike that isn't overbuilt has a very nice ride quality, and can still be quite light.
I appreciate Ollie's comparison of carbon fiber to Gore's Shakedry membrane, which I agree was a a nearly miraculous product. It appears that Shakedry's replacement has now hit the market with two new rain jackets from Rapha. "Shakedry" isn''t mentioned, but Rapha states that the jacket is PFAS-free and "waterproof," and it definitely carries the Shakedry price premium. I hope GCN will test the jacket soon.
Rule #1 - Pros will ride and endorse whatever their paymasters supply. Rule #2 - Big bike brands will make/sell whatever is easier to market and has the biggest profit margin. And don't forget aluminum frames have to be overbuilt to keep the flex cycles low enough to ensure a reasonable lifespan before the inevitable failure. Scandium'? Been there, done that. So many of them failed the material fell out of favor rather quickly, maybe back when you guys were still pedaling a plastic "Big Wheel" around mummy's garden?
Alex, yes you are right! The pedals that are flat one side and have spd the other are underrated. They are great for bike packing and touring and also if you have to do a lot of urban riding. You can easily change your foot position on long rides and you don't have to worry about unclipping when you are faced with endless traffic lights in town. I used them on LEJOG and my length of Japan ride. They are great!
Cannondale Caad 12 with 28mm tires is the most fun bike I’ve ever ridden! I could probably invest in making it even more fun but I’m hoping it last for several more years!
I always had an aluminum frame with carbon fork bike and use the money saved to get carbon wheels, better tires and comfortable seat
Is not the cost of carbon fibre not just the R&D but also the _labour_ required to do the layup? Given most of those bikes seem to have at least a hundred different custom pieces cut out (which can be automated) -- but then, crucially, they have to be laid into the mould by hand, according to a meticulous lay-up plan?
Whereas a frame created by additive manufacturing processes (aka 'printed') is still going to have similar R&D costs (aero design at a minimum, but other costs too, e.g. which pieces can be printed in what order), however, the cost base of manufacturing then becomes the _capital outlay_ on the machines, not so much the _labour_ cost? Then the _cost per piece_ gets less and less as you make more and more pieces. As opposed to a traditional carbon layup, which, if it takes say four hours to do it by hand, that money can never be reduced other than by driving the labour cost down.
I'm over-simplifying of course; especially in ignoring the material costs. Also, obviously there's still a quite a bit of capital costs in setting up a carbon frame plant, and unless you can print the whole frame at once, there's still some assembly and finishing required for a printed frame. But imagine you could design a frame that could be printed all in one go. You could then churn these out 24 hours a day, once R&D is accounted for, the material costs, electricity, and capital amortization of the machines are nearly all of your manufacturing cost base.
Love my Aluminum 2007 Cervelo Soloist Team CSC Bike. Aero, slippery, and faster than me. And, It is beautiful.
Don't worry I am not ever going to be on a carbon bike , as I have my forever bike and its Titanium !! I prefer metal bikes, alloy, Ti, steel or even Magnesium !!!
I wouldn't ride a carbon frame, they have a shorter lifespan than metal frames and is bad for the environment ! . I ride for fun and do long days int he saddle over road and gravel:
"Performance" is far less important that comfort and durability, for this modern metal bikes are always better imo.
Surely the next generation of bikes must be two things: more expensive and inferior to what we had before.
Love my custom steel road bike. With tubeless tires, the ride is sublime. Yes it's heavier by a bit, but it's got soul!
The most important things for bike performance and comfort are tires, wheels, and bike fit. For most of us, the frame doesn't matter as long as it will fit the wheels and tires you want and it fits you. Seems like the future of bike brands should be custom fit steel/Al/Ti frames.
Reynolds 531 tubing!
I know it's outperformed by many other materials, be it alu alloys, titanium, carbon or more modern steel alloys. I just like the look of classic road bikes and the ride quality speaks for itself.
They say steel is real but if you’re talking Reynolds 531, I am not carrying that elephant up and down my flat! 🤡
@@ariffau This is for men, not weight weenies! :)
@@marcusathome I’m no weight weenie. I’m just not carrying a 9kg - 10kg ‘road bike’ up a flight of stairs. Even gravel bikes that provide more comfort and faster are lighter than that 🤣
@@ariffau You are a lightweight.... just like your bike.
@@ariffau poor muffin
Agree, I have a 2010 Colnago EPS , in 2010 there wasn't the understanding on where and where not to put different types of carbon fibre for stiffness , compliance etc... Colnago went to Germany and purchased Ferrari grade HM carbon fibre to enable them to build the stiffest frameset possible. However, as the comments in the video, I was lucky that the frame accepts modern 28mm tyres , these run at 70 psi have been a real gamechanger to what was previously a skateboard
I have 2 steel and 2 carbon bikes.. still love my steelies.. Volare 931 Stainless and Condor Acciaio Columbus Spirt :) love my carbon Cannondales to of course :) Pete
Be it aluminum, steel or carbon frame, I love all bikes just the same.
@@DamnMyNickIsTakenme to 👍🚴
Steel is real, but titanium gets all up in your cranium, yo!
I have a Lynskey R240 with mechanical shifting, rim brakes, and exposed cables. It's virtually bombproof and easy to work on. It's stiff enough yet comfortable. It's also stable, but responsive enough to flick around a surprise pothole without feeling twitchy. Unfortunately the one limitation (after me, of course) is that the triangle only has clearance for a 25c tire. Otherwise , it's a fantastic bike that does everything I need it to for road riding and even some light duty mixed surface riding in dry conditions.
For those who will say I am a retro grouch because of the rim brakes, I have a newer Lynskey with disc brakes, too. I like the R240 better.
Let's keep moving back, thinking 3000 years - a BRONZE bike!!! That would be so beautiful!
Rocking the specialized crux dsw. I have no complaints.
One of my bikes has a $99 aluminum house brand frame circa 2009, built up with some pretty high end spare parts I had. I really just built it because I had the stuff lying around. I’ve also got carbon and Ti bikes…and honestly, if you didn’t know, you would never guess the frame was so much cheaper based on ride quality.
Bought a Crux DSW this summer. Such a fantastic bike and very happy with the purchase! And with bikepacking in mind, i’m just more comfortable with an Alu frame :)
6:44 I had a Scott G-Zero from around 2000-2010 and that had a Scandium alloy rear swing arm. As an alloy used for frames etc. it’s been around for a while.
I consider myself to be very lucky to own an S-Works Allez from 2014, in a 54cm the frame weighs 1050g and built with Dura Ace 9000 and 1500g carbon wheels, it’s comfortably under 7kg. And rides as nice as a Tarmac SL5 (which I also have) but feels somehow more connected and alive. I don’t think we’ll see the likes of it again now discs have taken over given that your average £5000 carbon disc bike weighs 7.5kg+. It’s not all about weight, but it doesn’t hurt to have a 6.xxkg bike if you can.
A while ago I decided to buy a new bike with an alloy frame, so far so good. Apart from the obvious price saving, I also like the design and the "people" groupset that goes with it. As a non-professional cyclist, I believe that alloy bikes are a great option to fully enjoy the sport, while avoiding some of the unaffordable prices of carbon bikes.
PS: I've already uploaded my bike to The Bikevault, just to say. 😅
still have my 1998 Cannondale aluminum bike - just fine thanks
All four main materials have their own characteristics and will suit different people's needs accordingly. The only material I don't have a bike made from is titanium, but plan to do so one day. And depending on the type of ride and conditions I choose accordingly. Wet and windy or for commute/shopping, alloy (with mudguards and maybe panniers). Fast club rides or races, carbon. Relaxed/cafe rides, steel (unless in bad weather).
The development of steel bikes would make a good tech topic. In the 40s and 50s Reynolds 531 was the tube of choice for frame builders in the UK, but developed even lighter and stronger tubing in subsequent years and a 725 or 953 tube frame is noticeably lighter, stiffer and stronger than a 531.
Excellent show. I agree that metal bikes are the future. Carbon fibre will be replaced with some new super technology. That Orbea is stunning though the toolbox spoils it.
Material science has so much to offer to alter bike frames. You have the 2D material shennanigans like Graphene and the nanotubes made from them. Even if it's expensive per gram, you can add it to your tire rubber mix and get amazing strength increases. If you ditch the carbon fiber for graphene fiber, you'd save another 10% - 20% in weight, while gaining strength. And that's just one material. Hacksmith showcased a coating that increases the strength of any material massively even when used in micrometer thicknesses. Imagine coating your chain with it. It could make all mechanical parts 10x lighter. Or all the fun you could have with chain waxes. Using a phase change material for your wax, so that it is hard when in rest and repells dirt, but liquid inside the bearings.
One of the wackier ideas I've had is an inflatable bicycle, where everything but the mechanical components are inflated. You'd need a ridiciulous amount of pressure, but a graphene reinforced rubber could do that.
Crazy fact that's just occurred to me: I've never had an aluminium bike! I've had a couple of carbon, one titanium and a number of steel bikes (I go back to the age where all you could get for kids bikes was steel).
Guess you’ll have to try one, right?
I love my carbon bike, I really do (2021 Canyon Ultimate). But I really want a metal bike to replace it when the time comes.
A couple of chain drops caused some nasty damage to the bottom bracket which cost over £350 to put right.
Thing about metal is you don't need to be so paranoid about the structural implications of small nicks and scrapes / dents.
Also way easier to strip down and respray once out of warranty - strip it down, put it in a blaster and you are ready to go.
So the carbon bike has been a novelty, but I'm ready to return to a metal one next time round. But not for stupid money.
The carbon version of my aluminum Trek Domane was $1500 more for a weight savings of 0.83 kg. I have not ridden both bikes back to back, so I don't know about ride quality, but I do love my bike and have no regrets.
As for the cost of sports cars vs bikes, my used Porsche Boxster cost me less than the Moots CRD I keep drooling over.... Sigh....
I read scandium as an alloying element never disappeared from the formula of many tubing manufacturers (eg. easton) for their top alu profucts, but it just wasnt marketed as such
I ride steel framed bikes and always have, they have the feel of steel and the thin round tubes look good. They also last a lifetime, my oldest steel frame is 74 years old, still good and never repaired.
Interesting, a couple of days ago, I read an article about custom bikes done by Rodriguez in Seattle, where it is claimed that he manufactures custom STEEL bikes, which are lighter than top carbon bikes. I was quite surprised, to be honest. Steel lighter than carbon? Seeing is believing.
I would love to see more lightweight steel frames from larger companies at reasonable price points. I recently rode quite a lightweight Ritchie frame that was at least as enjoyable to ride as any other bike and about $1500 US for the frame.
It's ok to own more than one bike. I ride carbon and I ride steel. Both do what they are meant to do beautifully. One is stiff and the other has a lively spring to it. I find alloy and titanium to hit neither of these marks, and these are the qualities I look for in a frame.
Don't understand why longevity/robustness is never mentioned when discussing frame materials. Most consumers, even if they do want to ride fast, care about their bikes and want something they can cherish and will last them a long time. Carbon is so much more likely to break in a crash or if the bike falls over - very expensive, and you can lose something you love. People are drifting to alloy/titanium/steel becasue they want something strong that will last them.
Standards have really slipped. No way Manon would have passed over that Canyon TT bike without commenting that it was in “biggie smalls, but the pedals weren’t horizontal”…keep up the good work chaps.
I've gotten rid of all but one of my carbon bikes, a model I've just always wanted. I now ride a custom steel and a titanium frame as my daily riders. One, I'm just older now and can't go as fast so why do I need a carbon bike. Two, all the carbon bikes seem to be the same and make the same claims of lighter, stiffer, more aero, that there's not much difference from one model to the next. Once the new one comes out, the previous one becomes quickly outdated. So, I stuck with more classic double triangle frames that ride so nicely. My custom steel frame costs as much as a high end carbon frame but I appreciate the craftsmanship put into it, it's classic look, fits like a glove, and it's one of a kind.
I’ve had (broke) a couple of carbon fiber mountain bikes, but I now ride a Hydro formed aluminum framed bike. The weight difference is negligible, and they are significantly more compliant than they used to be.
I had one carbon one. Never again.
Sturdiness and silence are the best features of metal. I even prefer steel. (my LBS told me, that more people ask for steel)
Would be great if you could do a pro ike review on that custom art ENVE, espicially if you could track down the tattoo artist for an interview. Amazing looking bike
Still have my carbon road bike, but have now moved to a Titanium Gravel Bike. Always wanted a pure Ti road bike after I saw a mates Litespeed, but price was the problem, until Ti Gravel bikes and cycle 2 work :-)
😭. I just bought a Cannondale Topstone Carbon gravel bike, I love the bike rides smoother than anything I’ve ridden in years. Finally got a carbon fiber bike and now you’re saying it’s gonna be old tech in a couple years 😂. Oh well I’m gonna ride this thing till it falls apart. I definitely can’t afford to buy a new bike every couple years.
The Specialized SWorks Alloy with full DuraAce and Corima rims was 6.8 kg in 2004.
Mine has Ultegra. 7.2 kg with bottle cage and computer. This compares with today's bikes.
Steel, Stainless & Titanium, they’re my rides and they rule!
now all you need to do is learn how to ride a bike ,...
@@vlombardiNow all you need to do is try and be funny, because you're as funny as a kidney infection.
I would suggest that it could also be Titanium and not just aluminium based alloys.
In the aerospace industry, especially in jet turbines, superplastic forming of titanium at temperatures just above 1000 degC is used to manufacture hollow fan blades of incredible strength and low weight despite their enormous sizes. The technique can be used to make complex shaped tubes but also more complex parts such as BB intersection of 3 or 4 tubes.
The 2018 US Pro Champs was won by Johnny Brown on an Allez Sprint. My current 52 cm Allez Sprint weighs 16.5 lbs with pedals, bottle cages. Biggest difference between it and my SWorks SL8 is rdie quality. Not true that you can tune the ride quality to match carbon. But it's the low cost of aluminum frames seems lke what the industry needs to make quality bikes at lower prices. When Brown won the champs, however, Specialized gave the win zero publicity.
Scandium alloy frames were pretty common in the late 90's. I prefer alu bikes, but it's pretty much impossible to get one "off the rack" with decent components. I'd rather have a good alu bike with dura ace instead of a carbon bike with ultegra. Selling the alu bikes afterwards is a nightmare too since people on the 2nd hand market seems to be carbon or nothing.
With the rise of 3D printed Titanium tech I think that will bring it back to light. You got bikes from BeSpoke Brands, No22, Bossi, etc already using 3D printed Titanium on some killer Aero road bikes.
I want a chromoly steel foam frame that grows like a bone. I expect the frameset to be under a kilogram.
I just got a carbon gravel bike. Love the comfort compared to my aluminum bikes before.
I’m buying a caad 13, Allez sprint, or an emonda alr for my next bike. It’s so much cheaper than carbon.
It’s not the bike it’s the legs powering the bike. I have a steel framed road bike, alloy gravel bike. Both under 8.5 kilos I moved away from carbon due to my size and damaging the frames. I’m just as fast on both bikes as my friends on 12k carbon bikes, I’m just more comfortable due to the compliance in the bikes but more importantly I can weld them back together if I crack or damage them 🤘