There is an old saying, 'Men in blue jeans built this country, men in suits ruined it". I think that goes for many other things as well, including hobbies. Great subject, thanks for bringing it up.
You can say what you want, but it is damn nice to see the 20 somethings with their skinny chops, wrenching and riding rather than sitting on the couch playing video games. They are the next generation, the culture will die without them.
But HOW MUCH are they actually wrenching? Not the MONEY ones - NO WAY are they getting their manicures messed up. I grew up without a father (The big "C" took him before I turned 5 - stomach cancer), so every time my mother had to pay a repairman to come fix something, she was like, "watch what he's doing - see if you can figure it out" - I've NEVER had a repairman NEAR my house since I was 12 years old. I've tried to instill a self-reliance in MY boys (sadly, only the oldest seems to have caught on). Old-School Choppers weren't all they may seem NOW. There weren't ANY "rules" about what side the shifting or braking was done on. My buddy wanted to ride with me and some buddies, but he didn't have a bike - he talked his cousin into letting him "borrow" HIS bike. It was a late '60's BSA Chopper - brake with your left foot - shift with your right. As we're riding around, we'd get curious about what the other guy's riding, and we'd trade-off. The FIRST time I was on the chopper, and a stoplight turned red, muscle memory kicked in, and instead of braking, I was just down-shifting! GIVE ME MY BIKE BACK! And it was also Super Sketchy crossing Railroad Tracks if you weren't PERFECTLY aligned at a 90* angle to them.
Yeah Man, You're so right! Soon as a craze comes around the money comes out, and the people with the fat wallets with money to splash want the next Cool thing on the street, and They'll pay a fortune for it, just for the kudos that something like that will bring, And yeah it is sad, I myself have had people hating on me for riding my Harley, saying that They'll never ride one of those pieces of crap, then a short while later they sell their rice burner and go and spend a shit load of cash on bobbing out and M8 Softail in the vain hope that they can out do me in the Cool stakes 😂😂😂 But I must admit that it's really quite funny when they've spent all that cash and realise that they real haven't achieved anything 👍🤘🏴
I think the comments about it being cyclical and relative are right. It’s relative to your skills and resources at any given moment and cyclical to your place in life and riding. You’re young and broke, you don’t have the money to buy into the game at your level. You admire the life so you find scraps in your garage and build what you can. You keep that up until you grow a little, make a little more money and start finding time and some conveniences (tools/prefab parts/other more experience experts) can help take your build/ride to the the next level. You make a little more, find new technologies you can’t get on older rides (maybe safety features/ ride improvements/gps) and find these are more important to your riding stage/age so maybe you upgrade because you can. You’re not sorry for upgrading because you’ve worked your way to it. Maybe throw in nicer paint or a newer model and you tell yourself you’ve earned it after many years of doing in the other way. Maybe life happens and you keep what you’ve got for a while because kids need braces and then when peace and time alone is what you crave, you go back to your roots (or discover the old ways for the first time). Money doesn’t impress or comfort or satisfy you the way it once (or maybe you’re just out of it) so you long for a return to basics. If you were never mechanically inclined to start (maybe no mentor/no one who rode/etc) maybe buying your way into the life, even at the lower end would have been your only way in. It’s one more fan of the culture so why not The money will set the trends but life will set the tendencies. Older tends towards comfort and convenience; you’ve earned it you’re not out to impress but to enjoy. Younger tends towards wild and risky. Do what you can now with what you’ve got and make sure they remember your name. There are outliers in every bunch: the rich trust fund kid; the old bones still on a rigid with paper directions; some major technological advancement that simply turn the riding scene on its head causing an entire shift in safety or styling. You can’t account for everything but you can enjoy each season based on where you’re at and what you like and what’s available and important to you at any given moment. In the end, at every event you’re bound to find one harley guy busting Honda chops, chopper guys laughing away at baggers, and an Afflicted owner turning up the music to drown everyone out. Then from the back is a voice saying “at least we’re all riding” and everyone nods and has another beer. Do you. Life’s the shortest ride we’ll ever take.
F'n nailed it brother! Keep it real man. Thanks for all you do as well as all the others like us out there! Respect and love on our brothers/sisters who are the real deal. Dedicating our time and efforts for others as well as self. We learn from each other both good and bad things. LOL! We're all different but we have the common denominators to ties us all in together. To some degree anyway. Blessings!
I used to restore 55,56,57 chevys for fun in the 70s,80s. Not anymore! Vintage bikes did that..its gone nuts. Vintage motocross bikes..its gone crazy as far as cost now. Anything that is a hobby will get too expensive to enjoy quickly
@@paulfleming4710 I used to buy 60s early 70's Chevy's all day long for 2000-4000K. Back then mid/late 70's they weren't that old and they were all in cherry shape. Not like rotten barn finds that get restored and go to Barrett Jackson. As the new trend sets like with smokey and the bandit and knight rider. Gotta have a Trans Am or whatever the soup de jour of the trend set for that generation became. Look at fast and furious. How about sons of anarchy? The list is long and wide. But you know that!
Dude, absolutely agree! I remember back in the 70s when I was a kid, choppers from that era were cool because they were fun to build and look at. Then through the 80s motorcycles were just motorcycles, and people rode them for their own purposes. But then the Discovery shows came along and everybody just had to have a bike. After a year or two how many used bikes were available way cheap because everyone that just had to have one and then they realized riding wasn't what they thought it was and so they got rid of it. But I also think this conversation leads to a larger issue, the other side of the same coin. Some folks try to tell others they like something and everyone else has to like it because they are " supposed" to like it. Sheeple, posers, whatever you want to call them like something because someone else said they should. So those seeking attention or acceptance drop gobs of money on something they're supposed to like, driving things away from those who are truly motorcycle enthusiasts. Music, TV, movies, its all the same as what you're talking about.
LOL, love this subject, in my years riding (60 this year "including dirt") i got my 1st Harley in 1973 and my 1st dealership job the same year. my 1st Harley an SX125 and in the 70's working at a dealership was weird you had the bikers, on pans and flatheads and a few on the shovels, then you had the Motorcyclists who had often newer shovelhead bikes and the cops on the new police, but the MONEY you speak of didn't really come in till the EVO Era, and the 1st sign of it was the Flip your patch movement, old bikers were wearing upside-down Harley patches on their leathers, and then i was working part time at another dealer and a bunch of us quit to go to work at an EASYRIDER Store (part of the Easyrider magazine family franchise) what we didn't realize was the Money had followed us to Easyrider before our store even opened and we were worst than the dealership price wise, and some of us went back to the HD dealer. While in the 80's and 90's the time of the FXR, that frame was designed by Erik Buell, the FXR was and still is FAR superior to the Dyna in EVERY WAY !! the Dyna was just cheaper to build and made Harley a bigger profit. and by the late 90's the money was hardcore into the Motor Company and they opened the Kansas City plant and started flooding the market with bikes, why you can now find cheap early twin cams all over the place. Also in the 90's when those of us who were kids in the dirt and missed the Original Chopper craze, we started building our own, (you've seen my tribute to Billy's bike) but then by the late 90's and early 2000's Money got into choppers and we ended up with Titan, Big Dog, Iron Horse, Orange County, thunder mountain and other store bought choppers that were selling for $50K plus and now you can buy them for under $5k , then as us Boomers got older we got into Baggers and them custom baggers and the big wheel baggers (up here they are named after a British cigarette) and as with the choppers now there are companies building store bought super baggers.......it's officially a FAD, and in 10-15 years it too will be DEAD !!!
I used to subscribe to Easyriders Magazine back in the '80s and cancelled my subscription when they started featuring big bucks cosmic builds instead of homemade choppers. A lot of cold winter nights, drinking rye and shivering in the garage while wrenching on your bike leads to total disrespect for the Write A Cheque crowd.
Having or not having money does not make you “cool”. You are either “cool” or you’re not. What kind of bike you ride does not make you cool. If you like what you ride, and have a good time working on it or riding it that is “COOL”
TRUE. I never "tried" to be "cool' (I thought I was kind of a nerd/dork - being into electronics and all)b But the other day, I heard somebody say, "Why don't you try to be cool like Greg"? If NOT caring what everybody thinks about you is "cool", I'll take it.
Interesting commentary. For those of us with no money, we don't worry about it too much. It's more of just keeping my old 99 FLSTF in good running condition, and then getting out on the road with it. For me it's the ride... not so much the show. Keep up the good work and God bless.
I think you’re right about the traditional choppers being next. A recent example is Matty Matheson on the knucklehead. You can absolutely believe that when rich people spend $100k+ to build patina choppers, it’s only a matter of time before it bleeds throughout the rest of the industry.
I think you could possibly even go back to the when the Evo first came out, people with more money than mechanical ability were then able to get into the Harley market.
Contracts! Now that's UNEARNED money! By the time you get to the end? What's the loan cost and what's the bike worth now? Guys with all the cash don't care. It's all disposable anyway! Trade it in for .25 on the dollar. Upgrade to the latest new trend set. No prob! But because of them we're supposed to cough up huge inflated, ...yeah, you get the pic...
I remember FXR's bein popular in the early 90's FFS! I started painting motorcycles in 1977 and I charged $200 to paint a set of FL tanks and fenders! Times have def changed..
You are so right. I've been riding Road Glides since 2010 and everyone called them ugly, bitched about the fairing not turning etc. Everyone was buying street glides and putting 30" wheels on them. That scene blew up and everyone had one and then the transition to Road Glides being the cool bike to have and then performance upgrades coming along and now the the MOCO is building them stock you know it's on the tail end of the trend. My bike looks basically stock but I've kept my performance upgrades low key and don't need reservoir shocks hanging off the back and carbon fiber parts to make my bike better. I'm waiting for the next trend so road glides will no longer be the cool bike. I enjoyed being the only guy I'd see out riding around on a weekend on a road glide.
I think it will swing back to street glides. The new batwing is better looking than the road glide. Talk about everyone saying your bike is ugly, I have a 1980 FLT Tour Glide, the very first road glide. A face only a mama could love!
I remember when a cool bike had tassles on the handlebars, a kuryakyn hypercharger and a thunderheader and Most likely an EV-27 in the cam box. Fads and yuppies will always be there calling expensive builds an “investment”. If you like a bike style ride it, if you like a part then put it on. Don’t set your bike up to impress anyone but yourself.
I'm trend resistant 😂 working on my bike is a hobby. Right now I put a radio with amp in (FLHTP). Requires re-pining connectors, putting extra switches in and installing and cabling the whole Soundsystem. Yeah, I know a piece of cake but to me, without a mechanical background, this is a challenge. But when it's done, I'm proud I did it myself (with the help of YT). That's how I see the builder discussion. Do it because you love it and not to be cool or famous. Otherwise it becomes a job and then it is no longer fun 😉 let the money bags do their thing. When the wave has passed, things go back to normal. One important aspect of the monetization is that it sparks invention and creativity (eg new parts, look at where Advanblack came from) and from that we all benefit. just my .02$. ride safe 🤙
@@ProfessionalMonkey I installed the passing light switch, re-pinned the horn cable and changed the handlebar controls. Now I'm waiting for Volunteer Audio to deliver the sound hardware. Scared of the speaker install but if I just don't get it, I'll ask a friend who is a mechanic. The rest should be in my wheelhouse 😀
Considering the Motor company has started making performance baggers from the factory (CVO RG ST) and they are selling all of them.....then yeah, money has found the performance bagger world, additionally, the King of the Bagger series is helping to push this too.
The shows should do something like the Cycle Source show. Have different levels of competition builds. The garage builds, the shop builds, and then the "Stupid Money" builds. "Stupid Money" builds never get a payout (if there is any) if they win, and the trophy/plaque is small, very small. Especially when compared with the garage and shop builds. When they get nothing, they'll walk away from it.
Unfortunately it's not worth much. Big Dogs were some of the best made ones for sure. I'd like to take a 2000s fat tire chopper and try to make it cool. Spokes, flat black paint, etc.
I bought my first motorcycle back in 98 and I’ve never looked back. I always used to love what the next big trend was and I love it when I used to be able to do stuff at home to my bike regardless of what’s new or regardless of how much money people are throwing at their new projects or having a new project built by somebody else I will always love my motorcycle because it’s a part of me and what I have done to it or what I have paid to have done to it because let’s face it electronics have pretty much entered every aspect of motorcycle riding regardless I will always love my bike because it’s a part of me and it’s what I have chosen to do whether I have enough money to do it all at once or just a little bit at a time it will always be a part of me! P.S I love your channel and I understand where you’re coming from about this subject.
I remember the R U B video you did about 3 years ago. Same principle different end of the spectrum. It's a giant bag of money vs passion for the project. Passion wins in the long run. Like you said, money comes in, money goes out but the passion bulids with each bulid.
When were performance baggers not $$$ I’m not a rich dude but put a good lot into my road glide. Didn’t do it all at once and did as much of the work as I can. Same with maintenance. Who doesn’t like working on there bike ? House is a mess but the bike got fresh fluids Road Glide .. expensive Big motor .. expensive Suspension .. pretty expensive Nice bar setup .. not cheap Forget the fancy paint. Gonna need that money to fix it when it breaks down. Just blew a head gasket on mine. Sucks. Gonna have to be in a cage for a few days. Makes me wanna cry like a little kid who dropped his icecream cone
Say what you may about FXRs. I have a '91, that thing didn't have enough of anything to get out of its own way. So I did the unthinkable, I installed an Ultima 120 engine. Now it's nothing but a wohoo moment. Why did I do this? The bike was free and the brand new engine was $4K. (Who knows how long the other drive train components will last, but as of right now who cares). And as for performance baggers, again say what you may, I installed a crate 131 engine, a Woods cam and again it's nothing but wohoo moments. The engine was cheap and the bike I bought new as a Christmas present to myself in 2019 in form of a 2020 RG at way less then MSRP. The key is do the work yourself, involve yourself with the project because YOU want it, and you'll never go wrong regardless of what the money trend tells you
I was at the cabbage patch in 19 ask the guy about his bike told me he didn't know anything about it he barely knows how to start it.he said a shop built it for him . I called him a poser with his white Oakley's and his bedazzled jeans. My wife told me that I was very rude and I told her that guy don't know shit about a bike he just makes a lot of money
True that! Seen it a few times. LOL! Meanwhile, other wanna be bikers need to grasp the concept. You know, where the bike actually has to leave the garage/driveway at least once in a while to be called a biker!
@@TagRolio THAT seems like A LOT of people - why keep the mileage low? For resale? That's like NOT banging your girlfriend to "keep it tight for the next guy".
Garage builds forever! Bikes built in a garage like yours, or mine, or the guy down the street…..Those are the bikes I like to try and pick out at a show, or in a line of bikes on Main Street. To me those are the cool ones, because you can tell there was real blood and sweat involved in the project. 🍻
Brought up some valid points. Fascinating how some publicity can spark big money interest. Shows are their own kind of publicity. Trends, like interest, will cycle through. In turn, it becomes a business cycle. Money drives all of it, one way or another.
You’re hitting on all the right points living here Southern California. I see a lot of it first out of the gate and sadly it does go from the sublime to the ridiculous. The big wheel baggers were flareup performance baggers have been out here for many many years however, a lot of the guys that I know who are true sport touring guys will opt for a BMW K 1600 GT which Harley what performance and a long ride those things are animals starting to see late 50s early 60s FL fully dressed. I talked to a lot of guys that have been mechanics for 3040 years out here and they all say the same thing it’s cyclical that every 20 years the stuff comes back around so it’s just a cycle but as for right now, since the factory got a hold of the performance bagger look and has made it accessible from a dealer. I agree with you. I think it’s gonna wind up. Let’s see what happens but great thank you so much.
I don’t think performance baggers are dead but what is are the big wheel bikes. They’re going to go the way of the early 00’s choppers - unrideable and probably worth less than $10k as more people realize just because you put 10s of thousands into a bike doesn’t make it worth that much.
The FXR was dropped due to the cost for Harley hand making the frames compared to the Dyna more machine oriented to build, I've owned both and would swap my Dyna for my old FXR in a heartbeat, better handling is just the start.
Apples and oranges to me as well. I'd love to lay hands on an old 82-83 FXRS, because those old Shovelhead FXRS/FXRs had soul. I still hurt inside over having to let go of mine. Looking for easy-starting and reliable? That ain't a carbed Shovelhead Harley. An EVO, especially the later fuel-injected made a Harley an "Everyman's Bike". Some will say that the easy-starting, reliable EVO was the start of the Harley market move from 'bikers" to "motorcycle riders", competing for the Gold Wing market. Things have changed since then, like the shift from cruisers to "designer choppers" to baggers plain/big-wheel/performance and I'm sure they'll change again.
I watched it happen with old muscle cars. Back in the 90’s-early 2000’s. You could get old Camaros, Mustangs, Novas etc. CHEAP. I bought a 70 Nova for $200. Running, and Driving. Throw a cam, carb, intake, and a set of headers on for $500. You’re burning rubber. Now days. The cheapest Nova you’re going to find is 80% rust, has no engine, or title. Dudes still thinks he’s going to get $2k out of it. ALSO ! The FXR is clearly the superior bike. The Dyna replaced it, because it was cheaper to produce.
This conversation can apply to anything. Here’s the,”soul” of it… Do you remember the little rascals episode where the rich kid has a cool fire truck go-cart and he gets the pretty girl to ride in it. Well the rascals build a go-cart that all of them including Petey the dog can ride. They have a race down the hill and the rich kid trashed his cool fire truck. This is what inspired me as a kid to start building go-carts and all kinds of other stuff. Once we all chipped in like 25 cents each, bought a Whamo slingshot mail order, used it as a template and made like ten of them from it. My point, the soul of building something cool is the satisfaction of your craftsmanship and enjoyment of the art. Money can buy almost anything but most time it’s a fool’s errand. The craftsmen and true enthusiasts will keep their passion alive no matter how many, “fools with money” think they can buy their way into it. Most times those types quickly lose interest and spend their money in something else.
I see your point. The things I can't make myself will increase in cost. The rest is fun time in the workshop. I just started with self studies with my english wheel. I rebuilt my roll bending machine for two tubes to the frame. It will most likely also give me the handle bar. Maybe I'll use a larger diameter on that, so I can hide the fron brake line for a bit of the strech. You can't value garage time enough. I just wish I had a few friends to terrorize while building....😅
My awesome step dad quit stock car racing 1974. Said they can use unlimited money we didn't have. I love Racing. But we got Dirt bikes. Went to the mountains every Sunday. 14 years old that saved my life
When you build your own bike there is a sence of pride that someone who buys someone else toy will never know. Don't worry about what the other guys doing just enjoy what your doing weather it a chop or bagger that the fun of being a biker. Enjoy your videos.
Agree With You all the way, work on my softail Last 3 winter doing everything from welding thru painting and ride with guys who dont know nothing about there bike...that's OK to be raise poor 😂
Money even ruined 4 cylinder local dirt track racers. It was meant to be an inexpensive way to get into the sport. Suddenly, people be putting together cars with a ridiculously high budget to where the whole point of that class was meant to be rather simple & who's the best driver. Now it's how much $$$ you have
First, when the motor company finally puts out their own version of a performance bagger for consumers, yes the scene is dead. Second, the idea that a two wheeled machine are reaching 200 plus hp and such means that these bike are no longer reliable. I do not know of anyone with a “built” bike that doesn’t have it in the shop at least twice a year. Third, yes money has found it. No one “builds” a bike anymore. They buy a bike. They couldn’t tell you the torque specs on the derby cover. We have lost the meaning of the words in the culture. The difference between a “Built Bike”, “Custom Bike”, “Customized Bike”, and “Stock Bike”. Built Bike = I built it in my garage from the frame up. Custom Bike = Bike Built ground up to my specifications. ie OCC. Customized Bike = Stock bike that has parts swapped out to make it yours. Stock Bike = no changes from the showroom floor. Most people are calling Custom Bikes, Built Bikes.
I agree with this 100%. I’ve been in the bike game for a long time and things have changed a lot. My bikes and tattoos were heavily looked down upon. Now for some reason it’s all cool. What gets me now is the complete lack of customer service with a lot of these aftermarket parts outfits. Not to mention they want all of your money up front for something that won’t be available for months. Most of them don’t even have a phone number on their website. So spend thousands and we won’t even pick up the phone to talk to you. Unfortunately this is the direction this industry has gone.
The 2000’s “discovery channel” chopper craze was a thing all its own. Everything ebbs and flows, the thing that will keep performance baggers alive is the west coast. They sort of overlap the whole lane splitter category. Or maybe the lane splitter is on the dead list too. Some big money gets dumped into them also.
I agree for the bike shows your totally correct but for the small guys that ride a hang out. Riders still know the old school that did it on a shoe string compared to the weekend rider that just throws money at it.
That’s their loss really. I sold my dyna and just got an 05 ultra classic. The enjoyment I get from simply removing the gay light bar on the front, the blinker bar in the back, removing the bag rails, and adding a black moons mc headlight and tail light, removing the tour pack and the mount bar for it, and seeing g the difference between it before and after, those guys that just pay someone else to do everything will never experience that feeling. I might not be building motors and shit, but I’m doing all of my own stuff, bars etc. I get to look at my bike and know I did that. Which provides me with a sense of pride. Those posers will never get to feel that.
Some people buy these cycles. Just to have as a work of art in their house. And not know anything about it. And not it. It's just a conversation piece. Because as you said. Money found it. And money left it.
You are exactly correct. Money creates evil !!!! I was born in the early 50s. By the time i was 16, i loved hot rods and harleys. My first build was a 51 pan. Back then, i had to get it raked and have a big long springer. This is when i first learned about Harley Motors. Since then, I've built many as well as transmissions. Back in the late 80s and early 90s is when i saw this change you're talking about start. As time went on, the guys i used to hang with all went their own ways. For the last 25 years, i mostly ride by myself. I just can't stand to be around those money people you're talking about.
I love the Harley Breakout, and other muscle bikes. Choppers went absolutely insane for a while there. Personally, something sleek with muted styling and a gnar sounding lope with comfy handlebars that runs, drives, and stops is all I really want in a chopper.
100% agree on money destroying everything. Putting monetary value on an intangible destroys it. Being cool is an intangible. Paying money to be cool destroys being cool. I have zero respect for individuals who walk into a shop with their temporary personality and essentially say "I only care about fitting in and trends so here's some money, make me cool". Atleast when the culture vultures leave, there will be a grip of killer bikes for sale.
I can see the validity of what you are saying. Never really liked the big wheel thing, or the OCC type build...I did like Indian Larry style. Trends will come and go but basic good style will survive. A solid dresser that will put down reliable miles is most desirable for me. One positive thing about motorcycle fads is when stuff goes out of style it seems to give regualr (working class) guys a chance to get a good deal on parts or a bike that has flooded the market (or been wrecked) and decreased the value. SOme can say ths about dressers/baggers also. They are in style. Rich/in debt guys buying them and never putting any miles on them. I like those guy cause they are a future opportunity. I am always on the lookout for a good deal on a CVO ----like your wifes...damn I love that paint job...and if some rich shmuck upgraded the motor...all the better.
Monk, I totally agree. When it’s too cold to ride up here in the Northeast I go skiing. I grew up on skis because my dad and some of his friends rented an old farmhouse in Vermont and turned it into a ski house. We didn’t have a lot of money, (my dad, like yours was a machinist/tool and die maker). But we could ski at least twice a month in Vermont because it was affordable. Now it’s $125, $150 or more per day to ski at the same mountain I grew up on. So I don’t go more than a couple times a year Because money found it, and the mountains are now owned by huge corporations who cater to the hedge fund crowd.
My thing about performance baggers is that I noticed that ever since the King of the Baggers circuit came along, for a small while everyone seemed all in. Bagger guys because they finally felt represented in the racing world outside of outlaw bagger drag racing clubs and sport bike guys because they previously hadn't even considered it possible for a bagger to do that and it created a common ground. Lately though, I find myself hearing less and less about it and can't help but wonder if a KOTB team might come along with a metric competitor, such as a Kawasaki Vulcan Vaquero, or if the scene was just doomed to have that short of a run and now it's too late.
Agreed. I just want a high performance bike to ride and have fun with, not to put it in shows. I don't care what other people think, it's for me. This craze is making it unaffordable to do now, it was expensive enough but now... out of my price range.
I bought a 54 HydraGide in 2005 when I got back from Afghanistan. It needed/ needs work and the shows like American pickers and pawn stars inflated the prices of everything so much, she just sits in the garage withering away. I should have hit those swap meets all them years ago and started buying. But when a guy wants $300 for an oil can from '60, and the little home builders can't justify the price, it kills the culture. I hope one day panhead prices go down. I fear they never will though...
Performance baggers came from the west for building Harley’s as stunt bikes and mountain riders usually people from a dirt bike background. It’s never going to die, it’s a lifestyle. Don’t forget battle of the baggers racing that capitalized on it.
what ever happened to run what ya brung. I have a 1990 fxsts stripped it and started over. Many beers and many laughs spent many nights with the boys pulling wrenches loved every minute
When my husband built his Pan chopper, right after an accident, he built it in our living room in 1983.. He searched for parts and a friend of his did the custom paint job for $2000.00.. Long time ago.....
Remember the 90zz.. when u had to put your name on a list to get a Harley.. the ROLEX RANGERS started that fab… how many of them are riding now…….. great video 👍👍👍
Started LONG before that. I 1982 I was a poor GI who scraped up the cash to hand over to the dealer and get told "It'll be here in six months." And that was the norm for years before that: full amount cash down and your bike is ordered. It was Harley's way of doing business for forever. Monkey has a story about his dad buying a Harley and the waiting list from back then. The Rolex guys came in the 90s Old Man Forbes started riding and every wannabe big time Wall Street investor wanted to be part of the crowd. Those 6-month waits became 1 year and prices skyrocketed as those guys paid lots of extra cash to get moved ahead of you on the waiting list. Dealerships lost loyal customers when they played those games on them and have never recovered or died over the hurt their catering to the Rolex crowd.
In 2008 started out on a cheap 94 Honda Shadow 600. First blacking it out any chrome I could. Added a springer seat. and rat-rodded it out. Now Harley and other bike companies charge more for blacked out parts than chrome ones.
Well I totally agree right in a check isn't the same as wrenching on your own bike... It's going to happen but I don't see it changing and people still be wrenching on their bikes and still having self-pride in what they've done. I kind of hope that bike shows start making a bigger deal out of the weekend mechanic and seeing what they produced out of their own garage.. we'll have to see
Streetrods did the same thing..we went to the junk yard and got parts or made them ..different rims front or back and mismatch colors and drove them everyday ..
I remember in the 60's and70's as a kid (Yea, I know I'm old, born in 62) you would have the old school bikers (they were young then) Vietnam Veterans just coming home wrenching on their bike or a buddies bike every weekend in the driveway. They would "source" parts that didn't necessarily fit but they would make it work for their purpose or fabricate what they needed, without any fancy machining using mainly hand tools. I've also seen a lot of nice and intricate paint jobs come from rattle cans. I know these guys didn't have money, most didn't work and lives in the same dead end small village that I lived in. A lot of bartering went on and a few even "bartered" services from their old lady for parts. But you are absolutely correct yes money can buy, but where is the pride of hands on labor!!
Whats up can we get an update on those helper springs orthe big GMC and how they did on your trip to Dayton if you haven't alredy said if you did I missed it somehow and would realy like to know how they have worked out so are thanks keep up the fun stuff
Performance Baggers aren’t dead. Big Wheel Baggers aren’t dead. Stretched Baggers aren’t dead. Bobbers not dead. Cafe racers not dead. Choppers not dead. Fat tire bikes not dead. Skinny Tire baggers not dead. FXR’s not dead. Vrods not dead. Vicklas not dead. Sportsters not dead. Dynas never die! Rippin on bikes is always cool whether you’re running tbars or rockin ape hangers, scraping bags or having a crazy lean angle, it’s all good. Who cares if trends die? We picked up more enthusiasts along the way and Performance Baggers will never die!!
One more thing ,If you haven't seen the Documentary on The Sinners out of Cali,check it out . Those guys had the right idea about the entire Bike /Car seen.
Dang !! You nailed it with this one. I’ve had multiple FXR’s and multiple Dynas (none newer than ‘05) and I absolutely love them both. And other than the rear swingarm pivot deficiency on a Dyna (which I would rarely feel) I don’t feel either is better than the other. But I will agree had a mint and I mean mint 20k mile ‘98 Dyna I pretty much had to give away. And sold my last FXR (that didn’t run but was complete) for way more than I ever imagined to a guy in California (I’m in Nc). So yeah, I agree with the cyclical thing and how money ruins things. Loved this video.
Sorry I didn't get a chance to see you at Bike Week this year. Spent too much time riding around go figure 🙂 I am still waiting for money $$$ to find me. If you and the bride to make it up to Laconia Bike Week please let me know. Love your content, keep up the good work. Ride hard, ride safe! I would love for money to "destroy" me. Mind you I am not poo, but I don't have the resources to get a 6 figure build. If I won Power Ball or what not, yes I would get a custom built "comfortable" performance bagger. Not gonna lie. 160HP / 175TQ would be awesome don't you think 🙂
Great topic man. I wonder if they could flip the script on this? What about having different classes? Like, less than 50k build, 100k build, and then greater than 100k builds 🤷🏼♂️
I've always thought that a performance bagger was just silly. As a fellow Missourian that retired out of the Army in the Pacific Northwest state of Washington. I have a 2017 H-D Roadie Ultra and a 2023 Softail Low Rider ST... my round town bike. I have a my 2017 pumped up 107" short stroke motor and the ST smokes it like a cheap cigar! I was over that performance bagger concept years ago. But with a 107 HP from a S&S .475 cam/cam plate blah blah blah! It was a fine investment to ride a bike that outruns those hideous Honda Gold Wings! Ride to Live Live to Ride! Also built a chopper long ago but after riding it was adorned with a brand new FOR SALE sign on it!
This all goes in cycles (no pun intended). My pops speaks about the old becoming new and the new becoming old time and time again. Just gotta get over it. Money will always be involved. Until people realize that they don't have to always 'vote' for the trailer queens to always win the trophy or actually take the time to categorize events appropriately, it will always be a thing.
Truth. The only good part is once money loses interest, regular folks can go back. But yeah I think old school chops are the next one to go. The 78 FXE shovel (with bad tins but great frame and motor) I was gonna chop, dude selling it just jacked up the price…
Very true! I'm a bit of a purist and like to keep that traditional harley look, hopefully that trend never comes. I've got a 2000 road king that I've slowly made look like a 60s fl, a 2022 road glide that the wife and I ride the piss out of and recently bought a 2003 1200 custom that i would love to hardtail and put a springer on. In my mid 40s, not alot of money but its my hobby. After listening to your video, maybe go another route with the sporty? It'll probably be too expensive by the time i can afford it. Love your videos as always from Sturgis! Btw, the uglier the better. I always lean towards stuff no one wants, hows that for a trend!?
Not everyone is going to have the time or skillset to do something like garage build. I'm happy for the guys who have spent decades honing their craft and can now make some money with it.. Also I'm happy to see the 20 something crowd get into old school chopper and fxr's, is going to keep the life going instead of being some footnote somewhere.
great topic! Tough call on this one. Without popularity then Low Brow doesn't exist with a good selection. Maybe something like OG choppers can grow in popularity BUT the popular OG choppers aren't massive dollar bikes? Maybe it'll be cool to zip-tie shit to shit?
I do agree with all that shit that is why I found a bike at Sturgis '84 road it from Rapid to the park in Sturgis for a guy that had to spend the night in jail, not sure why but he didn't want the cops to have his bike , I was with a friend of his and he asked me if I could ride, I told him that I have ridden dirt bikes and a few street bikes two of his other friends said they would show me what I needed to know and ride with me and that id when I fell in love with the Wide Glide, I think it was an '81 or '82 it was the first bike that everything just fit me, seat, handle bars and pegs in the right spot and 25 years and a family later I have my '97 that now has 70k on it and I do all the work my self when I'm not working on my '78 sporty for my boy, well that's how to make a short story long but I miss those days, have a good one.
It’s not money that ruins it. It’s when it becomes a competition for prizes. Trophies, monetary prizes etc. I’ve participated in several hobbies like this. Hot rod car shows- they become who spends the most money. I’ve played in that world. Only one exception has been (laugh if you want) the antique farm tractor world! Prizes are not allowed in the shows. An 18 year old kid who restores an antique tractor in his FFA class gets more attention than the huge farming outfit who shows 10 perfect tractors. It’s awesome. I have a pretty well modified touring bagger. I do it for me. When I’m riding it across the western deserts I don’t give a damn if anybody else thinks it’s cool. I stop and look at it because it is exactly what I want it to look like. I build a lot of my own parts. Only I know what I’ve done to it. THAT is what gives me satisfaction. Hard to describe that. I love to look at show bikes but I like what mine looks like after a 500 mile day the best. I’ll spend an hour wiping it down that night just so I can roll on a clean machine in the morning. The leather wrapped grips, levers that my wife did for me mean more than any custom part on it.
it all moves in trends, remember when Big wheel baggers were a thing? All chrome on absolutely everything? Eventually everything reaches its peak and then we're on to the next thing. Money will definitely kill it though it's not always the rich guy asking for the custom build. I can name several dealerships that build the customs and then sell them to rope in the guy with a great credit score.
@professionalmonkey We get caught up in stuff we cannot afford..... When it comes to bike shows I am not a fan of the bolt on guys. I like the creativity of a bike build. The Craftsmanship of creativity is what I am looking for.... Keep doing what you do. I enjoy the channel.
There is an old saying, 'Men in blue jeans built this country, men in suits ruined it". I think that goes for many other things as well, including hobbies. Great subject, thanks for bringing it up.
True same in the hobbies like gaming, Movies and other pop culture is all ruined.
You can say what you want, but it is damn nice to see the 20 somethings with their skinny chops, wrenching and riding rather than sitting on the couch playing video games. They are the next generation, the culture will die without them.
I completely agree!
But HOW MUCH are they actually wrenching? Not the MONEY ones - NO WAY are they getting their manicures messed up. I grew up without a father (The big "C" took him before I turned 5 - stomach cancer), so every time my mother had to pay a repairman to come fix something, she was like, "watch what he's doing - see if you can figure it out" - I've NEVER had a repairman NEAR my house since I was 12 years old. I've tried to instill a self-reliance in MY boys (sadly, only the oldest seems to have caught on).
Old-School Choppers weren't all they may seem NOW. There weren't ANY "rules" about what side the shifting or braking was done on. My buddy wanted to ride with me and some buddies, but he didn't have a bike - he talked his cousin into letting him "borrow" HIS bike. It was a late '60's BSA Chopper - brake with your left foot - shift with your right. As we're riding around, we'd get curious about what the other guy's riding, and we'd trade-off. The FIRST time I was on the chopper, and a stoplight turned red, muscle memory kicked in, and instead of braking, I was just down-shifting! GIVE ME MY BIKE BACK! And it was also Super Sketchy crossing Railroad Tracks if you weren't PERFECTLY aligned at a 90* angle to them.
Damn right bud. I love it too
My $100,000 Bagger Budget:
50K: Badass Bagger
30K: Booze, Gambling, Strippers and bail
20K: Divorce Lawyer
😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂
Yeah Man, You're so right! Soon as a craze comes around the money comes out, and the people with the fat wallets with money to splash want the next Cool thing on the street, and They'll pay a fortune for it, just for the kudos that something like that will bring, And yeah it is sad, I myself have had people hating on me for riding my Harley, saying that They'll never ride one of those pieces of crap, then a short while later they sell their rice burner and go and spend a shit load of cash on bobbing out and M8 Softail in the vain hope that they can out do me in the Cool stakes 😂😂😂 But I must admit that it's really quite funny when they've spent all that cash and realise that they real haven't achieved anything 👍🤘🏴
Lmfao
I think the comments about it being cyclical and relative are right. It’s relative to your skills and resources at any given moment and cyclical to your place in life and riding.
You’re young and broke, you don’t have the money to buy into the game at your level. You admire the life so you find scraps in your garage and build what you can. You keep that up until you grow a little, make a little more money and start finding time and some conveniences (tools/prefab parts/other more experience experts) can help take your build/ride to the the next level. You make a little more, find new technologies you can’t get on older rides (maybe safety features/ ride improvements/gps) and find these are more important to your riding stage/age so maybe you upgrade because you can.
You’re not sorry for upgrading because you’ve worked your way to it. Maybe throw in nicer paint or a newer model and you tell yourself you’ve earned it after many years of doing in the other way.
Maybe life happens and you keep what you’ve got for a while because kids need braces and then when peace and time alone is what you crave, you go back to your roots (or discover the old ways for the first time). Money doesn’t impress or comfort or satisfy you the way it once (or maybe you’re just out of it) so you long for a return to basics.
If you were never mechanically inclined to start (maybe no mentor/no one who rode/etc) maybe buying your way into the life, even at the lower end would have been your only way in. It’s one more fan of the culture so why not
The money will set the trends but life will set the tendencies. Older tends towards comfort and convenience; you’ve earned it you’re not out to impress but to enjoy. Younger tends towards wild and risky. Do what you can now with what you’ve got and make sure they remember your name.
There are outliers in every bunch: the rich trust fund kid; the old bones still on a rigid with paper directions; some major technological advancement that simply turn the riding scene on its head causing an entire shift in safety or styling. You can’t account for everything but you can enjoy each season based on where you’re at and what you like and what’s available and important to you at any given moment.
In the end, at every event you’re bound to find one harley guy busting Honda chops, chopper guys laughing away at baggers, and an Afflicted owner turning up the music to drown everyone out. Then from the back is a voice saying “at least we’re all riding” and everyone nods and has another beer.
Do you. Life’s the shortest ride we’ll ever take.
F'n nailed it brother! Keep it real man. Thanks for all you do as well as all the others like us out there! Respect and love on our brothers/sisters who are the real deal. Dedicating our time and efforts for others as well as self. We learn from each other both good and bad things. LOL! We're all different but we have the common denominators to ties us all in together. To some degree anyway. Blessings!
That's the fact Jack! Money corrupts absolutely and ruins all sorts of things just like the classic car industry!
I used to restore 55,56,57 chevys for fun in the 70s,80s. Not anymore! Vintage bikes did that..its gone nuts. Vintage motocross bikes..its gone crazy as far as cost now. Anything that is a hobby will get too expensive to enjoy quickly
You're out your god damn mind
@@paulfleming4710 I used to buy 60s early 70's Chevy's all day long for 2000-4000K. Back then mid/late 70's they weren't that old and they were all in cherry shape. Not like rotten barn finds that get restored and go to Barrett Jackson. As the new trend sets like with smokey and the bandit and knight rider. Gotta have a Trans Am or whatever the soup de jour of the trend set for that generation became. Look at fast and furious. How about sons of anarchy? The list is long and wide. But you know that!
@@TagRolio I paid $450 for my GTO Convertible used in 1977 - $2,000 to $4,000 would *maybe* have bought a NEW car back then.
Dude, absolutely agree! I remember back in the 70s when I was a kid, choppers from that era were cool because they were fun to build and look at. Then through the 80s motorcycles were just motorcycles, and people rode them for their own purposes. But then the Discovery shows came along and everybody just had to have a bike. After a year or two how many used bikes were available way cheap because everyone that just had to have one and then they realized riding wasn't what they thought it was and so they got rid of it. But I also think this conversation leads to a larger issue, the other side of the same coin. Some folks try to tell others they like something and everyone else has to like it because they are " supposed" to like it. Sheeple, posers, whatever you want to call them like something because someone else said they should. So those seeking attention or acceptance drop gobs of money on something they're supposed to like, driving things away from those who are truly motorcycle enthusiasts. Music, TV, movies, its all the same as what you're talking about.
It's The Love of money is the root of evil.
LOL, love this subject, in my years riding (60 this year "including dirt") i got my 1st Harley in 1973 and my 1st dealership job the same year. my 1st Harley an SX125 and in the 70's working at a dealership was weird you had the bikers, on pans and flatheads and a few on the shovels, then you had the Motorcyclists who had often newer shovelhead bikes and the cops on the new police, but the MONEY you speak of didn't really come in till the EVO Era, and the 1st sign of it was the Flip your patch movement, old bikers were wearing upside-down Harley patches on their leathers, and then i was working part time at another dealer and a bunch of us quit to go to work at an EASYRIDER Store (part of the Easyrider magazine family franchise) what we didn't realize was the Money had followed us to Easyrider before our store even opened and we were worst than the dealership price wise, and some of us went back to the HD dealer. While in the 80's and 90's the time of the FXR, that frame was designed by Erik Buell, the FXR was and still is FAR superior to the Dyna in EVERY WAY !! the Dyna was just cheaper to build and made Harley a bigger profit. and by the late 90's the money was hardcore into the Motor Company and they opened the Kansas City plant and started flooding the market with bikes, why you can now find cheap early twin cams all over the place. Also in the 90's when those of us who were kids in the dirt and missed the Original Chopper craze, we started building our own, (you've seen my tribute to Billy's bike) but then by the late 90's and early 2000's Money got into choppers and we ended up with Titan, Big Dog, Iron Horse, Orange County, thunder mountain and other store bought choppers that were selling for $50K plus and now you can buy them for under $5k , then as us Boomers got older we got into Baggers and them custom baggers and the big wheel baggers (up here they are named after a British cigarette) and as with the choppers now there are companies building store bought super baggers.......it's officially a FAD, and in 10-15 years it too will be DEAD !!!
You can always tell when a build style is dead when Harley comes out with a half-assed factory built version of it.
I used to subscribe to Easyriders Magazine back in the '80s and cancelled my subscription when they started featuring big bucks cosmic builds instead of homemade choppers. A lot of cold winter nights, drinking rye and shivering in the garage while wrenching on your bike leads to total disrespect for the Write A Cheque crowd.
Having or not having money does not make you “cool”. You are either “cool” or you’re not. What kind of bike you ride does not make you cool. If you like what you ride, and have a good time working on it or riding it that is “COOL”
TRUE. I never "tried" to be "cool' (I thought I was kind of a nerd/dork - being into electronics and all)b But the other day, I heard somebody say, "Why don't you try to be cool like Greg"? If NOT caring what everybody thinks about you is "cool", I'll take it.
Interesting commentary. For those of us with no money, we don't worry about it too much. It's more of just keeping my old 99 FLSTF in good running condition, and then getting out on the road with it. For me it's the ride... not so much the show. Keep up the good work and God bless.
Absolutely bud! Your FB is a modern classic already!
I guess I was unsubscribed from you. Just re-subscribed
I think you’re right about the traditional choppers being next. A recent example is Matty Matheson on the knucklehead. You can absolutely believe that when rich people spend $100k+ to build patina choppers, it’s only a matter of time before it bleeds throughout the rest of the industry.
I believe it actually started in 1999 when Harley started offering the CVO. Just sign the contract and drive off with unearned bragging rights.
I mean, how does one "earn" bragging rights? Stuff is cool because people say it is.
I think you could possibly even go back to the when the Evo first came out, people with more money than mechanical ability were then able to get into the Harley market.
Contracts! Now that's UNEARNED money! By the time you get to the end? What's the loan cost and what's the bike worth now? Guys with all the cash don't care. It's all disposable anyway! Trade it in for .25 on the dollar. Upgrade to the latest new trend set. No prob! But because of them we're supposed to cough up huge inflated, ...yeah, you get the pic...
I remember FXR's bein popular in the early 90's FFS!
I started painting motorcycles in 1977 and I charged $200 to paint a set of FL tanks and fenders!
Times have def changed..
You are so right. I've been riding Road Glides since 2010 and everyone called them ugly, bitched about the fairing not turning etc. Everyone was buying street glides and putting 30" wheels on them. That scene blew up and everyone had one and then the transition to Road Glides being the cool bike to have and then performance upgrades coming along and now the the MOCO is building them stock you know it's on the tail end of the trend. My bike looks basically stock but I've kept my performance upgrades low key and don't need reservoir shocks hanging off the back and carbon fiber parts to make my bike better. I'm waiting for the next trend so road glides will no longer be the cool bike. I enjoyed being the only guy I'd see out riding around on a weekend on a road glide.
I think it will swing back to street glides. The new batwing is better looking than the road glide. Talk about everyone saying your bike is ugly, I have a 1980 FLT Tour Glide, the very first road glide. A face only a mama could love!
I remember when a cool bike had tassles on the handlebars, a kuryakyn hypercharger and a thunderheader and Most likely an EV-27 in the cam box. Fads and yuppies will always be there calling expensive builds an “investment”. If you like a bike style ride it, if you like a part then put it on. Don’t set your bike up to impress anyone but yourself.
Well said,I thought a Stage 2 was a big performance upgrade on my Ultra, LOL I guess I'll never be one of THOSE guys. TY Mr M.
I'm trend resistant 😂 working on my bike is a hobby. Right now I put a radio with amp in (FLHTP). Requires re-pining connectors, putting extra switches in and installing and cabling the whole Soundsystem. Yeah, I know a piece of cake but to me, without a mechanical background, this is a challenge. But when it's done, I'm proud I did it myself (with the help of YT). That's how I see the builder discussion. Do it because you love it and not to be cool or famous. Otherwise it becomes a job and then it is no longer fun 😉 let the money bags do their thing. When the wave has passed, things go back to normal. One important aspect of the monetization is that it sparks invention and creativity (eg new parts, look at where Advanblack came from) and from that we all benefit. just my .02$. ride safe 🤙
I did the same thing a while back. Added a stereo to a Po Po Glide. It was a PITA!
@@ProfessionalMonkey I installed the passing light switch, re-pinned the horn cable and changed the handlebar controls. Now I'm waiting for Volunteer Audio to deliver the sound hardware. Scared of the speaker install but if I just don't get it, I'll ask a friend who is a mechanic. The rest should be in my wheelhouse 😀
New legislation is coming to make radios on motorcycles illegal. Expected to pass without much resistance.
Considering the Motor company has started making performance baggers from the factory (CVO RG ST) and they are selling all of them.....then yeah, money has found the performance bagger world, additionally, the King of the Bagger series is helping to push this too.
The shows should do something like the Cycle Source show. Have different levels of competition builds. The garage builds, the shop builds, and then the "Stupid Money" builds. "Stupid Money" builds never get a payout (if there is any) if they win, and the trophy/plaque is small, very small. Especially when compared with the garage and shop builds. When they get nothing, they'll walk away from it.
Garage build shows are the best, but the problem is people just flat lie about building their bike.
My brother in law has one of those Big Dog choppers sitting under a tarp...for the past 10 years.
Unfortunately it's not worth much. Big Dogs were some of the best made ones for sure. I'd like to take a 2000s fat tire chopper and try to make it cool. Spokes, flat black paint, etc.
I can’t wait for KING OF THE BAGGERS to become KING OF THE TRIKES ! Your dad and me are already set.
HA!!!
Someone will just write a check to put a Hellcat engine in it.
I bought my first motorcycle back in 98 and I’ve never looked back. I always used to love what the next big trend was and I love it when I used to be able to do stuff at home to my bike regardless of what’s new or regardless of how much money people are throwing at their new projects or having a new project built by somebody else I will always love my motorcycle because it’s a part of me and what I have done to it or what I have paid to have done to it because let’s face it electronics have pretty much entered every aspect of motorcycle riding regardless I will always love my bike because it’s a part of me and it’s what I have chosen to do whether I have enough money to do it all at once or just a little bit at a time it will always be a part of me! P.S I love your channel and I understand where you’re coming from about this subject.
Agree. I recently bought an 04 Big Dog Chopper because it was cheap. Nice toy for local poker runs. My bagger is for comfort, not performance.
I remember the R U B video you did about 3 years ago. Same principle different end of the spectrum. It's a giant bag of money vs passion for the project. Passion wins in the long run. Like you said, money comes in, money goes out but the passion bulids with each bulid.
When were performance baggers not $$$
I’m not a rich dude but put a good lot into my road glide. Didn’t do it all at once and did as much of the work as I can. Same with maintenance. Who doesn’t like working on there bike ? House is a mess but the bike got fresh fluids
Road Glide .. expensive
Big motor .. expensive
Suspension .. pretty expensive
Nice bar setup .. not cheap
Forget the fancy paint.
Gonna need that money to fix it when it breaks down.
Just blew a head gasket on mine. Sucks. Gonna have to be in a cage for a few days. Makes me wanna cry like a little kid who dropped his icecream cone
Say what you may about FXRs. I have a '91, that thing didn't have enough of anything to get out of its own way. So I did the unthinkable, I installed an Ultima 120 engine. Now it's nothing but a wohoo moment. Why did I do this? The bike was free and the brand new engine was $4K. (Who knows how long the other drive train components will last, but as of right now who cares). And as for performance baggers, again say what you may, I installed a crate 131 engine, a Woods cam and again it's nothing but wohoo moments. The engine was cheap and the bike I bought new as a Christmas present to myself in 2019 in form of a 2020 RG at way less then MSRP. The key is do the work yourself, involve yourself with the project because YOU want it, and you'll never go wrong regardless of what the money trend tells you
I was at the cabbage patch in 19 ask the guy about his bike told me he didn't know anything about it he barely knows how to start it.he said a shop built it for him . I called him a poser with his white Oakley's and his bedazzled jeans. My wife told me that I was very rude and I told her that guy don't know shit about a bike he just makes a lot of money
True that! Seen it a few times. LOL! Meanwhile, other wanna be bikers need to grasp the concept. You know, where the bike actually has to leave the garage/driveway at least once in a while to be called a biker!
@@TagRolio THAT seems like A LOT of people - why keep the mileage low? For resale? That's like NOT banging your girlfriend to "keep it tight for the next guy".
As someone who has been involved with motorcycles since I was a kid. I couldn't agree with you more. 💯%. Great topic, Monkey!
I remember when The Horse Backstreet Choppers magazine was making fun of everyone buying baggers post 2004.. they called it back then.
The good thing about when the trend ends is that the regular people that have been into bikes for years can pick up a bike at a reasonable price.
Garage builds forever! Bikes built in a garage like yours, or mine, or the guy down the street…..Those are the bikes I like to try and pick out at a show, or in a line of bikes on Main Street. To me those are the cool ones, because you can tell there was real blood and sweat involved in the project. 🍻
110% correct about big money ruining everything! I’m not smart enough to venture a guess on what’s next but u nailed the concept!
Brought up some valid points. Fascinating how some publicity can spark big money interest. Shows are their own kind of publicity. Trends, like interest, will cycle through. In turn, it becomes a business cycle. Money drives all of it, one way or another.
You can spot those people a mile away.Just the way they conduct themselves they're phonies
Thanks…Bike culture needed this video. Hope this goes viral☑️
You’re hitting on all the right points living here Southern California. I see a lot of it first out of the gate and sadly it does go from the sublime to the ridiculous. The big wheel baggers were flareup performance baggers have been out here for many many years however, a lot of the guys that I know who are true sport touring guys will opt for a BMW K 1600 GT which Harley what performance and a long ride those things are animals starting to see late 50s early 60s FL fully dressed. I talked to a lot of guys that have been mechanics for 3040 years out here and they all say the same thing it’s cyclical that every 20 years the stuff comes back around so it’s just a cycle but as for right now, since the factory got a hold of the performance bagger look and has made it accessible from a dealer. I agree with you. I think it’s gonna wind up. Let’s see what happens but great thank you so much.
You said that wrong, money is not the root of all evil,
the love of money is!
I don’t think performance baggers are dead but what is are the big wheel bikes. They’re going to go the way of the early 00’s choppers - unrideable and probably worth less than $10k as more people realize just because you put 10s of thousands into a bike doesn’t make it worth that much.
Huge wheels are absolutely one of the worst investments you can make in a bike.
The FXR was dropped due to the cost for Harley hand making the frames compared to the Dyna more machine oriented to build, I've owned both and would swap my Dyna for my old FXR in a heartbeat, better handling is just the start.
Apples and oranges to me as well. I'd love to lay hands on an old 82-83 FXRS, because those old Shovelhead FXRS/FXRs had soul. I still hurt inside over having to let go of mine.
Looking for easy-starting and reliable? That ain't a carbed Shovelhead Harley. An EVO, especially the later fuel-injected made a Harley an "Everyman's Bike".
Some will say that the easy-starting, reliable EVO was the start of the Harley market move from 'bikers" to "motorcycle riders", competing for the Gold Wing market.
Things have changed since then, like the shift from cruisers to "designer choppers" to baggers plain/big-wheel/performance and I'm sure they'll change again.
I watched it happen with old muscle cars. Back in the 90’s-early 2000’s. You could get old Camaros, Mustangs, Novas etc. CHEAP. I bought a 70 Nova for $200. Running, and Driving. Throw a cam, carb, intake, and a set of headers on for $500. You’re burning rubber. Now days. The cheapest Nova you’re going to find is 80% rust, has no engine, or title. Dudes still thinks he’s going to get $2k out of it.
ALSO ! The FXR is clearly the superior bike. The Dyna replaced it, because it was cheaper to produce.
This conversation can apply to anything. Here’s the,”soul” of it…
Do you remember the little rascals episode where the rich kid has a cool fire truck go-cart and he gets the pretty girl to ride in it. Well the rascals build a go-cart that all of them including Petey the dog can ride. They have a race down the hill and the rich kid trashed his cool fire truck. This is what inspired me as a kid to start building go-carts and all kinds of other stuff. Once we all chipped in like 25 cents each, bought a Whamo slingshot mail order, used it as a template and made like ten of them from it. My point, the soul of building something cool is the satisfaction of your craftsmanship and enjoyment of the art. Money can buy almost anything but most time it’s a fool’s errand. The craftsmen and true enthusiasts will keep their passion alive no matter how many, “fools with money” think they can buy their way into it. Most times those types quickly lose interest and spend their money in something else.
I see your point. The things I can't make myself will increase in cost. The rest is fun time in the workshop. I just started with self studies with my english wheel. I rebuilt my roll bending machine for two tubes to the frame. It will most likely also give me the handle bar. Maybe I'll use a larger diameter on that, so I can hide the fron brake line for a bit of the strech. You can't value garage time enough. I just wish I had a few friends to terrorize while building....😅
My awesome step dad quit stock car racing 1974. Said they can use unlimited money we didn't have. I love Racing. But we got Dirt bikes. Went to the mountains every Sunday. 14 years old that saved my life
That's a good way to avoid the money throwers, do something dangerous...
When you build your own bike there is a sence of pride that someone who buys someone else toy will never know. Don't worry about what the other guys doing just enjoy what your doing weather it a chop or bagger that the fun of being a biker. Enjoy your videos.
Agree With You all the way, work on my softail Last 3 winter doing everything from welding thru painting and ride with guys who dont know nothing about there bike...that's OK to be raise poor 😂
Money even ruined 4 cylinder local dirt track racers. It was meant to be an inexpensive way to get into the sport. Suddenly, people be putting together cars with a ridiculously high budget to where the whole point of that class was meant to be rather simple & who's the best driver. Now it's how much $$$ you have
First, when the motor company finally puts out their own version of a performance bagger for consumers, yes the scene is dead. Second, the idea that a two wheeled machine are reaching 200 plus hp and such means that these bike are no longer reliable. I do not know of anyone with a “built” bike that doesn’t have it in the shop at least twice a year. Third, yes money has found it. No one “builds” a bike anymore. They buy a bike. They couldn’t tell you the torque specs on the derby cover. We have lost the meaning of the words in the culture. The difference between a “Built Bike”, “Custom Bike”, “Customized Bike”, and “Stock Bike”. Built Bike = I built it in my garage from the frame up. Custom Bike = Bike Built ground up to my specifications. ie OCC. Customized Bike = Stock bike that has parts swapped out to make it yours. Stock Bike = no changes from the showroom floor. Most people are calling Custom Bikes, Built Bikes.
I'm from Delaware where punkin chunkin came from,went on discovery Channel and booom! In 2 seasons! All gone.😢
Delaware here 2
I agree with this 100%. I’ve been in the bike game for a long time and things have changed a lot. My bikes and tattoos were heavily looked down upon. Now for some reason it’s all cool. What gets me now is the complete lack of customer service with a lot of these aftermarket parts outfits. Not to mention they want all of your money up front for something that won’t be available for months. Most of them don’t even have a phone number on their website. So spend thousands and we won’t even pick up the phone to talk to you. Unfortunately this is the direction this industry has gone.
The 2000’s “discovery channel” chopper craze was a thing all its own. Everything ebbs and flows, the thing that will keep performance baggers alive is the west coast. They sort of overlap the whole lane splitter category. Or maybe the lane splitter is on the dead list too. Some big money gets dumped into them also.
I agree for the bike shows your totally correct but for the small guys that ride a hang out. Riders still know the old school that did it on a shoe string compared to the weekend rider that just throws money at it.
That’s their loss really. I sold my dyna and just got an 05 ultra classic. The enjoyment I get from simply removing the gay light bar on the front, the blinker bar in the back, removing the bag rails, and adding a black moons mc headlight and tail light, removing the tour pack and the mount bar for it, and seeing g the difference between it before and after, those guys that just pay someone else to do everything will never experience that feeling. I might not be building motors and shit, but I’m doing all of my own stuff, bars etc. I get to look at my bike and know I did that. Which provides me with a sense of pride. Those posers will never get to feel that.
Some people buy these cycles. Just to have as a work of art in their house. And not know anything about it. And not it. It's just a conversation piece. Because as you said. Money found it. And money left it.
You are exactly correct. Money creates evil !!!! I was born in the early 50s. By the time i was 16, i loved hot rods and harleys. My first build was a 51 pan. Back then, i had to get it raked and have a big long springer. This is when i first learned about Harley Motors. Since then, I've built many as well as transmissions. Back in the late 80s and early 90s is when i saw this change you're talking about start. As time went on, the guys i used to hang with all went their own ways. For the last 25 years, i mostly ride by myself. I just can't stand to be around those money people you're talking about.
I love the Harley Breakout, and other muscle bikes. Choppers went absolutely insane for a while there. Personally, something sleek with muted styling and a gnar sounding lope with comfy handlebars that runs, drives, and stops is all I really want in a chopper.
He's not lying. My boy put 20k in stereo 15k for the front wheel and much more they don't care about budget
100% agree on money destroying everything. Putting monetary value on an intangible destroys it. Being cool is an intangible. Paying money to be cool destroys being cool. I have zero respect for individuals who walk into a shop with their temporary personality and essentially say "I only care about fitting in and trends so here's some money, make me cool". Atleast when the culture vultures leave, there will be a grip of killer bikes for sale.
The whole Harley CVO (Currently this Vehicle is Overpriced) thing is what convinced me to get a Softail.
I can see the validity of what you are saying. Never really liked the big wheel thing, or the OCC type build...I did like Indian Larry style. Trends will come and go but basic good style will survive. A solid dresser that will put down reliable miles is most desirable for me. One positive thing about motorcycle fads is when stuff goes out of style it seems to give regualr (working class) guys a chance to get a good deal on parts or a bike that has flooded the market (or been wrecked) and decreased the value. SOme can say ths about dressers/baggers also. They are in style. Rich/in debt guys buying them and never putting any miles on them. I like those guy cause they are a future opportunity. I am always on the lookout for a good deal on a CVO ----like your wifes...damn I love that paint job...and if some rich shmuck upgraded the motor...all the better.
Monk, I totally agree. When it’s too cold to ride up here in the Northeast I go skiing. I grew up on skis because my dad and some of his friends rented an old farmhouse in Vermont and turned it into a ski house. We didn’t have a lot of money, (my dad, like yours was a machinist/tool and die maker). But we could ski at least twice a month in Vermont because it was affordable. Now it’s $125, $150 or more per day to ski at the same mountain I grew up on. So I don’t go more than a couple times a year
Because money found it, and the mountains are now owned by huge corporations who cater to the hedge fund crowd.
My thing about performance baggers is that I noticed that ever since the King of the Baggers circuit came along, for a small while everyone seemed all in. Bagger guys because they finally felt represented in the racing world outside of outlaw bagger drag racing clubs and sport bike guys because they previously hadn't even considered it possible for a bagger to do that and it created a common ground. Lately though, I find myself hearing less and less about it and can't help but wonder if a KOTB team might come along with a metric competitor, such as a Kawasaki Vulcan Vaquero, or if the scene was just doomed to have that short of a run and now it's too late.
Agreed. I just want a high performance bike to ride and have fun with, not to put it in shows. I don't care what other people think, it's for me. This craze is making it unaffordable to do now, it was expensive enough but now... out of my price range.
I bought a 54 HydraGide in 2005 when I got back from Afghanistan. It needed/ needs work and the shows like American pickers and pawn stars inflated the prices of everything so much, she just sits in the garage withering away. I should have hit those swap meets all them years ago and started buying. But when a guy wants $300 for an oil can from '60, and the little home builders can't justify the price, it kills the culture. I hope one day panhead prices go down. I fear they never will though...
That sucks. I am glad your pan found your home though. I hope someday you can get her together.
Performance baggers came from the west for building Harley’s as stunt bikes and mountain riders usually people from a dirt bike background. It’s never going to die, it’s a lifestyle. Don’t forget battle of the baggers racing that capitalized on it.
what ever happened to run what ya brung. I have a 1990 fxsts stripped it and started over. Many beers and many laughs spent many nights with the boys pulling wrenches loved every minute
When my husband built his Pan chopper, right after an accident, he built it in our living room in 1983.. He searched for parts and a friend of his did the custom paint job for $2000.00.. Long time ago.....
Now that bike is $20k!
Completely Agree!!! Freaking Sucks that you have to sell a damn Kidney to make your bike the way you want it… smh
Remember the 90zz.. when u had to put your name on a list to get a Harley.. the ROLEX RANGERS started that fab… how many of them are riding now…….. great video 👍👍👍
Started LONG before that. I 1982 I was a poor GI who scraped up the cash to hand over to the dealer and get told "It'll be here in six months." And that was the norm for years before that: full amount cash down and your bike is ordered. It was Harley's way of doing business for forever. Monkey has a story about his dad buying a Harley and the waiting list from back then.
The Rolex guys came in the 90s Old Man Forbes started riding and every wannabe big time Wall Street investor wanted to be part of the crowd. Those 6-month waits became 1 year and prices skyrocketed as those guys paid lots of extra cash to get moved ahead of you on the waiting list.
Dealerships lost loyal customers when they played those games on them and have never recovered or died over the hurt their catering to the Rolex crowd.
In 2008 started out on a cheap 94 Honda Shadow 600. First blacking it out any chrome I could. Added a springer seat. and rat-rodded it out. Now Harley and other bike companies charge more for blacked out parts than chrome ones.
Well I totally agree right in a check isn't the same as wrenching on your own bike... It's going to happen but I don't see it changing and people still be wrenching on their bikes and still having self-pride in what they've done. I kind of hope that bike shows start making a bigger deal out of the weekend mechanic and seeing what they produced out of their own garage.. we'll have to see
Even back in 07, the builders would show customers bikes that spent tons of money for the builders to take to shows.
Money is not the root of all evil. The love of money is the root of all evil.
I blew my performance bagger budget when I signed the purchase contract on my 21 Road Glide and paid the ridiculous dealer fees.
It's easy to do!
I watched the same thing happen with the diesel community. SEMA truck builds and spending money competition ruined it.
Streetrods did the same thing..we went to the junk yard and got parts or made them ..different rims front or back and mismatch colors and drove them everyday ..
I remember in the 60's and70's as a kid (Yea, I know I'm old, born in 62) you would have the old school bikers (they were young then) Vietnam Veterans just coming home wrenching on their bike or a buddies bike every weekend in the driveway. They would "source" parts that didn't necessarily fit but they would make it work for their purpose or fabricate what they needed, without any fancy machining using mainly hand tools. I've also seen a lot of nice and intricate paint jobs come from rattle cans. I know these guys didn't have money, most didn't work and lives in the same dead end small village that I lived in. A lot of bartering went on and a few even "bartered" services from their old lady for parts.
But you are absolutely correct yes money can buy, but where is the pride of hands on labor!!
Same thing happened with hot rods, rusted out buckets are now a mint.
And old volkswagens
Whats up can we get an update on those helper springs orthe big GMC and how they did on your trip to Dayton if you haven't alredy said if you did I missed it somehow and would realy like to know how they have worked out so are thanks keep up the fun stuff
Made a WORLD of difference! The truck felt a lot more stable.
Performance Baggers aren’t dead. Big Wheel Baggers aren’t dead. Stretched Baggers aren’t dead. Bobbers not dead. Cafe racers not dead. Choppers not dead. Fat tire bikes not dead. Skinny Tire baggers not dead. FXR’s not dead. Vrods not dead. Vicklas not dead. Sportsters not dead. Dynas never die!
Rippin on bikes is always cool whether you’re running tbars or rockin ape hangers, scraping bags or having a crazy lean angle, it’s all good. Who cares if trends die? We picked up more enthusiasts along the way and Performance Baggers will never die!!
One more thing ,If you haven't seen the Documentary on The Sinners out of Cali,check it out . Those guys had the right idea about the entire Bike /Car seen.
Dang !! You nailed it with this one. I’ve had multiple FXR’s and multiple Dynas (none newer than ‘05) and I absolutely love them both. And other than the rear swingarm pivot deficiency on a Dyna (which I would rarely feel) I don’t feel either is better than the other. But I will agree had a mint and I mean mint 20k mile ‘98 Dyna I pretty much had to give away. And sold my last FXR (that didn’t run but was complete) for way more than I ever imagined to a guy in California (I’m in Nc). So yeah, I agree with the cyclical thing and how money ruins things. Loved this video.
Thank you!
Sorry I didn't get a chance to see you at Bike Week this year. Spent too much time riding around go figure 🙂 I am still waiting for money $$$ to find me. If you and the bride to make it up to Laconia Bike Week please let me know. Love your content, keep up the good work. Ride hard, ride safe! I would love for money to "destroy" me. Mind you I am not poo, but I don't have the resources to get a 6 figure build. If I won Power Ball or what not, yes I would get a custom built "comfortable" performance bagger. Not gonna lie. 160HP / 175TQ would be awesome don't you think 🙂
Great topic man. I wonder if they could flip the script on this? What about having different classes? Like, less than 50k build, 100k build, and then greater than 100k builds 🤷🏼♂️
That way everyone gets a trophy
I love garage build shows, but somehow every entrant needs to be interviewed to make sure they really built it.
I've always thought that a performance bagger was just silly. As a fellow Missourian that retired out of the Army in the Pacific Northwest state of Washington. I have a 2017 H-D Roadie Ultra and a 2023 Softail Low Rider ST... my round town bike. I have a my 2017 pumped up 107" short stroke motor and the ST smokes it like a cheap cigar! I was over that performance bagger concept years ago. But with a 107 HP from a S&S .475 cam/cam plate blah blah blah! It was a fine investment to ride a bike that outruns those hideous Honda Gold Wings!
Ride to Live Live to Ride! Also built a chopper long ago but after riding it was adorned with a brand new FOR SALE sign on it!
This all goes in cycles (no pun intended). My pops speaks about the old becoming new and the new becoming old time and time again. Just gotta get over it. Money will always be involved. Until people realize that they don't have to always 'vote' for the trailer queens to always win the trophy or actually take the time to categorize events appropriately, it will always be a thing.
Truth. The only good part is once money loses interest, regular folks can go back. But yeah I think old school chops are the next one to go. The 78 FXE shovel (with bad tins but great frame and motor) I was gonna chop, dude selling it just jacked up the price…
i dont look at performance baggers anymore because of the write a check guy,you can tell by looking at the owner whether or not he built it or not
Very true! I'm a bit of a purist and like to keep that traditional harley look, hopefully that trend never comes. I've got a 2000 road king that I've slowly made look like a 60s fl, a 2022 road glide that the wife and I ride the piss out of and recently bought a 2003 1200 custom that i would love to hardtail and put a springer on. In my mid 40s, not alot of money but its my hobby. After listening to your video, maybe go another route with the sporty? It'll probably be too expensive by the time i can afford it. Love your videos as always from Sturgis! Btw, the uglier the better. I always lean towards stuff no one wants, hows that for a trend!?
Couldn`t have said it better myself !!! Good one Monkey.
Not everyone is going to have the time or skillset to do something like garage build. I'm happy for the guys who have spent decades honing their craft and can now make some money with it.. Also I'm happy to see the 20 something crowd get into old school chopper and fxr's, is going to keep the life going instead of being some footnote somewhere.
won nice thing about it is they make new parts that end up at the flea markets at a good price
great topic! Tough call on this one. Without popularity then Low Brow doesn't exist with a good selection. Maybe something like OG choppers can grow in popularity BUT the popular OG choppers aren't massive dollar bikes? Maybe it'll be cool to zip-tie shit to shit?
I do agree with all that shit that is why I found a bike at Sturgis '84 road it from Rapid to the park in Sturgis for a guy that had to spend the night in jail, not sure why but he didn't want the cops to have his bike , I was with a friend of his and he asked me if I could ride, I told him that I have ridden dirt bikes and a few street bikes two of his other friends said they would show me what I needed to know and ride with me and that id when I fell in love with the Wide Glide, I think it was an '81 or '82 it was the first bike that everything just fit me, seat, handle bars and pegs in the right spot and 25 years and a family later I have my '97 that now has 70k on it and I do all the work my self when I'm not working on my '78 sporty for my boy, well that's how to make a short story long but I miss those days, have a good one.
Happens all the time with all sorts of bikes cars truck etc. Just build or ride what you like. I don’t care what s hot or not.
It’s not money that ruins it. It’s when it becomes a competition for prizes. Trophies, monetary prizes etc. I’ve participated in several hobbies like this. Hot rod car shows- they become who spends the most money. I’ve played in that world. Only one exception has been (laugh if you want) the antique farm tractor world! Prizes are not allowed in the shows. An 18 year old kid who restores an antique tractor in his FFA class gets more attention than the huge farming outfit who shows 10 perfect tractors. It’s awesome.
I have a pretty well modified touring bagger. I do it for me. When I’m riding it across the western deserts I don’t give a damn if anybody else thinks it’s cool. I stop and look at it because it is exactly what I want it to look like. I build a lot of my own parts. Only I know what I’ve done to it. THAT is what gives me satisfaction. Hard to describe that.
I love to look at show bikes but I like what mine looks like after a 500 mile day the best. I’ll spend an hour wiping it down that night just so I can roll on a clean machine in the morning. The leather wrapped grips, levers that my wife did for me mean more than any custom part on it.
it all moves in trends, remember when Big wheel baggers were a thing? All chrome on absolutely everything? Eventually everything reaches its peak and then we're on to the next thing. Money will definitely kill it though it's not always the rich guy asking for the custom build. I can name several dealerships that build the customs and then sell them to rope in the guy with a great credit score.
$600.00 for handlebars,$1200for pipes,,yeah,money corrupts,
@professionalmonkey We get caught up in stuff we cannot afford..... When it comes to bike shows I am not a fan of the bolt on guys. I like the creativity of a bike build. The Craftsmanship of creativity is what I am looking for.... Keep doing what you do. I enjoy the channel.