Great video. Comparing each softbox, umbrella, and reflector; and how factors, such as fabric color, provides adjustability to reach a certain goal. I am also thankful beauty dishes were not included in the reflectors. Although beauty dishes is a type of reflector, its far different and behaves differently than the typical reflector. John has several great videos about beauty dishes if you are interested in a deep dive.
Good video. I personally believe the 100cm octa with only inner diffuser is still 100cm but comes out more focused (similar focus as a deep umbrella ) and with the outer diffuser it get more spread around the room (similar to deep umbrella with a diffuser on it). It makes a difference if your softbox has a recessed diffuser or if the diffuser is at the edge. I had a recessed diffuser on my Elinchrom octa and it kinda works similar to a grid. But to remove it you had to disassemble the entire octabox so i am back to the regular diffuser. But other brands have recessed diffusers by default. I mostly use my Godox white umbrellas anyway because off no diffuser and i can have focused big light source (65 inch/165cm) that is both focused and big and soft with barely any light bouncing in the room, which is pretty cool for an 80Euro modifier. I have the same octa as you have (elinchrom 100cm deep octa) and i bought it when i did know anything about light, but looking back a deep umbrella would have been a better choice. But back than i thought umbrellas suck. And now i think umbrellas are awesome. The deep octa is cool too, but you kinda can do the same with deep umbrellas. sorry for the long comment, i always nerd out after i see videos like this.
Thank you for your comment. I probably should’ve explained things a little better. I didn’t mean that it was really giving you the light of a 70 cm modifier. I just meant that the diffusion panel was smaller and then the outer diffusion panel and while I didn’t test it, it probably is less even edge to edge than the softbox with the second layer of diffusion on. You might enjoy this old video where I compare different modifiers and while I missed this in the analysis, a number of people did comment that the 120 cm Lightmotif is likely more directional because the lip restricts the spread of the light.
@@JohnGress It looks like That litemotiv has a recessed diffuser on the front so it is embedded 2 inches into the softbox so it kinda works like a grid. You can buy a similar embedded diffuser for the octabox but i returned it because you had to disassemble the entire softbox just to add or remove the embedded diffuser, but it is double diffusion but without losing focus that you get if you only use the inner diffuser. so pretty cool but the adding and removing has a couple of retarded design flaws because you have to take the rods out, add the diffuser to the rods put the rods back in again.
Thanks for very clear explanation. I believe softbox size is not related on reflectiveness or specularity. Diffusion gives less specular quality of light that's why softbox with double diffusion is less specular.
Thanks for your input! Diffusion does reduce specularity. However, the adage ‘size equals softness’ specifically refers to the relative size of the light source from the subject’s perspective. As a thought experiment, imagine placing a 3’ octabox with double diffusion 100 feet away from your subject and taking a picture. Then, replace it with a bare 7” reflector at the same distance. Both would effectively act as very small light sources relative to the subject, resulting in hard light with similar specularity. In this scenario, diffusion wouldn’t significantly alter the quality of light because the apparent size of the light source is so small.
it reduced contrast. just like clouds in the sky reduce contrast. And also the elinchrom have the outer diffuser at the edge so it becomes a bigger light source than 100cm because of the diffussion. they also sell recessed diffuser and than it is more like having a grid on it because the light cannot spill out. so that explains the contrast difference probably.
@@JohnGress You're right. Larger modifier also produce less specularity a little bit. But smaller light can still give less specularity if diffused. I did a similar test with my 105 silver reflective umbrella w/o diffision vs 60cm Octabox with double diffusion, same distance from my subject. 105 umbrella gives more specularity on my subject's forehead but softer shadow, while 60cm Octabox gives less reflective light but the shadow is sharper. Many photographer thinks that larger light source also produce less specularity but the reality is it depends on diffusion materials mostly.. Ex. Large Mirror produce more specular type of light compared to small window with white curtain. Maybe you can use specular/diffused and hard/soft as quality of light description on your next video. Thank you for giving free lessons to your subscribers. Have a nice day.
I set a custom white balance using a gray card for each option, but my execution may not have been perfectly precise, and there could be a margin of error of about 100K. While the bare bulb, reflector, and umbrella showed minimal variation in white balance, the setup with the octabox measured approximately 800K warmer. However, since I also adjusted the power level when switching modifiers, I can’t say definitively whether the difference was due to the modifier itself or the change in output power of the light. Different power settings result in different white balances and different modifiers effect the color of the light too. A more controlled test would be needed to confirm.
Great video. I do have a question. I have seen some videos of a photographer that likes beauty dishes with grids and uses them a lot. She uses the bigger dishes. I have a magnum reflector which is about 14 inch with a grid 30 and a 12" and 7" reflectors with same grids. have been looking at a 22 to 28 with grid to light a larger area of the body instead of just head shots but they are expensive, 150usd for 22" with grid and . I already have a 24-48" softbox that have grids. Can I get the same or similar effects using those softboxes instead of of beauty dish. This would save me some money over the, 27-28" beauty dishes, which are easily t damage. They are also 270usd. Are the grids too big in the softboxes to compete against the beauty dishes?
Thank you! The light from a softbox with a grid will look quite different from a beauty dish with a grid. However, I’d question whether a beauty dish with a grid is significantly different from a Magnum reflector with a grid. The beauty of a beauty dish-pun intended-lies in its design without a grid. The light reflects off the back of the dish and also off the rim at about a 45-degree angle, creating sculpting light where these diagonal beams cross. Adding a grid blocks these diagonal beams. In this video, I take a deep dive into beauty dishes, including a demonstration of how adding a grid affects the modifier. Hope it helps! ruclips.net/video/VO3R8DTEzJU/видео.html
@@JohnGress I did watch your other video. I just wish I understood what 3 dimensional means or what it looks like. I cannot see it in your examples, probably because I don't have the experience you do with these modifiers or even portrait photography. You also say, this is considered "wrong". Is there a list of "wrong" things not to do? Also your suggestion to shoot at the distance of the size of the beauty dish. I have seen another photographer that shoot at a distance double that distance and with grid. Her images look great, but would it be considered wrong? I would rather not be "wrong" but what latitude does distance have. Farther away is harder light but then using another flash or reflector to fill in the shadows is the way to work around this?
‘Wrong’ is always subjective, but efficiency is not. You might use a certain modifier to achieve a specific look, but understanding how different distances and grids affect the light can help you determine which tool is the most efficient for the job. The differences shown in the beauty dish video are subtle, but you can see how the crossing light beams create a distinct sculpting effect. Regarding the other photographer’s method, I’d question whether her results are meaningfully different from what you’d get with an 18-21cm grid reflector at the same distance, given how a gridded beauty dish channels light. If the two setups produce similar quality of light, then using the smaller, more affordable modifier might be the more efficient choice. This video compares beauty dishes to softboxes, so it may help clarify that 3-dimensional effect-or you might decide it’s all just hype! Let me know what you think. ruclips.net/video/5puD6liIn8M/видео.html
You said there are white, silver, and translucent umbrellas. What about gold umbrellas? I've got a gold umbrella... Are they officially out of market now? do we hate them? what is it?
it probably messes up your white balance. silver does too. white is the best for accurate color. silver is a bit on the cool side. My Elinchrom octa has 5000k wb. And my Godox white umbrella is more around 5600k wb (and the flash should be around 5500k - 5700k depending on the power.) but if you like gold, i think they still sell them, they also have gold reflectors. so i think maybe the gold umbrella is made for active fill light maybe? They should make blue and green ones etc so you have a color filtered fill light. but it is probably cheaper to buy the color filters.
I don’t think I’ve seen a gold one before, but I have seen some inserts for the back to make them gold ish and I remember 25 years ago seeing gold lined soft boxes, but it has been a minute. As for the white balance I found when I tested things previously that a silver umbrella And a bare bulb flash have the same white balance, so while it does feel like the light from a silver umbrella is cool, it’s actually neutral where as a white umbrella warms up the light slightly. That’s why I always suggest that if you are using multiple lights in a scene that it’s best for you to use all white or all silver modifiers.
@420sigmapower I have a recessed face for one of my small strip soft boxes so I know what you mean. Taking it off is next to impossible if you want to just use a deflector so I use it for my hair light.
@@JohnGress I don't agree about white balance. my godox qt2 should be 5500-5700k according to the manual(all the temperatures are mentioned in the manual) and with a white godox umbrella that is exactly what i get. And with my Elinchrom octa (with godox/bowens speedring) i get 5000k to 5100k. And to me that is too cool. And with only inner diffuser i get 5400k which is already a bit closer to what it should be. Maybe it is just different because i use it on a godox strobe. But my godox umbrella gives me accurate barebulb temperatures. so i am not sure why my elinchrom does not.
@420sigmapower I wouldn’t take the manual at face value for bare bulb numbers without testing it. Wb shifts over the power range and they could vary unit to unit, flash to flash. When I performed this test with a Profoto light and their own 7” modifier without changing the power of the flash, a key factor, the white balance was the same. When I added a soft box, the temperature shifted 500 to 700° lower, which is warmer, not cooler. This happens because when light passes through fabric, it becomes warmer. I would encourage you to test your flash at the same power with multiple modifiers and set the white balance with a gray card. Also keep in mind that there will be a slight variance in each flash burst so you may want to do the test three times with each modifier.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Such a great educator
Thank you so much! ❤️
Love your videos John, thanks
Glad you like them! I hope they help!
good as always.
THANKS! I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Great video. Comparing each softbox, umbrella, and reflector; and how factors, such as fabric color, provides adjustability to reach a certain goal. I am also thankful beauty dishes were not included in the reflectors. Although beauty dishes is a type of reflector, its far different and behaves differently than the typical reflector. John has several great videos about beauty dishes if you are interested in a deep dive.
Thanks! I am glad you enjoyed the video.
Good video. I personally believe the 100cm octa with only inner diffuser is still 100cm but comes out more focused (similar focus as a deep umbrella ) and with the outer diffuser it get more spread around the room (similar to deep umbrella with a diffuser on it).
It makes a difference if your softbox has a recessed diffuser or if the diffuser is at the edge. I had a recessed diffuser on my Elinchrom octa and it kinda works similar to a grid. But to remove it you had to disassemble the entire octabox so i am back to the regular diffuser. But other brands have recessed diffusers by default. I mostly use my Godox white umbrellas anyway because off no diffuser and i can have focused big light source (65 inch/165cm) that is both focused and big and soft with barely any light bouncing in the room, which is pretty cool for an 80Euro modifier. I have the same octa as you have (elinchrom 100cm deep octa) and i bought it when i did know anything about light, but looking back a deep umbrella would have been a better choice. But back than i thought umbrellas suck. And now i think umbrellas are awesome. The deep octa is cool too, but you kinda can do the same with deep umbrellas.
sorry for the long comment, i always nerd out after i see videos like this.
Thank you for your comment. I probably should’ve explained things a little better. I didn’t mean that it was really giving you the light of a 70 cm modifier. I just meant that the diffusion panel was smaller and then the outer diffusion panel and while I didn’t test it, it probably is less even edge to edge than the softbox with the second layer of diffusion on.
You might enjoy this old video where I compare different modifiers and while I missed this in the analysis, a number of people did comment that the 120 cm Lightmotif is likely more directional because the lip restricts the spread of the light.
@@JohnGress It looks like That litemotiv has a recessed diffuser on the front so it is embedded 2 inches into the softbox so it kinda works like a grid. You can buy a similar embedded diffuser for the octabox but i returned it because you had to disassemble the entire softbox just to add or remove the embedded diffuser, but it is double diffusion but without losing focus that you get if you only use the inner diffuser. so pretty cool but the adding and removing has a couple of retarded design flaws because you have to take the rods out, add the diffuser to the rods put the rods back in again.
Thanks for very clear explanation. I believe softbox size is not related on reflectiveness or specularity. Diffusion gives less specular quality of light that's why softbox with double diffusion is less specular.
Thanks for your input! Diffusion does reduce specularity. However, the adage ‘size equals softness’ specifically refers to the relative size of the light source from the subject’s perspective. As a thought experiment, imagine placing a 3’ octabox with double diffusion 100 feet away from your subject and taking a picture. Then, replace it with a bare 7” reflector at the same distance. Both would effectively act as very small light sources relative to the subject, resulting in hard light with similar specularity. In this scenario, diffusion wouldn’t significantly alter the quality of light because the apparent size of the light source is so small.
it reduced contrast. just like clouds in the sky reduce contrast. And also the elinchrom have the outer diffuser at the edge so it becomes a bigger light source than 100cm because of the diffussion. they also sell recessed diffuser and than it is more like having a grid on it because the light cannot spill out. so that explains the contrast difference probably.
@@JohnGress You're right. Larger modifier also produce less specularity a little bit. But smaller light can still give less specularity if diffused. I did a similar test with my 105 silver reflective umbrella w/o diffision vs 60cm Octabox with double diffusion, same distance from my subject. 105 umbrella gives more specularity on my subject's forehead but softer shadow, while 60cm Octabox gives less reflective light but the shadow is sharper. Many photographer thinks that larger light source also produce less specularity but the reality is it depends on diffusion materials mostly.. Ex. Large Mirror produce more specular type of light compared to small window with white curtain.
Maybe you can use specular/diffused and hard/soft as quality of light description on your next video. Thank you for giving free lessons to your subscribers. Have a nice day.
In opinions with reflector is the best option for environment lifestyle headshot
10:42 Interesting. Why is the reflector photo warmer?
I set a custom white balance using a gray card for each option, but my execution may not have been perfectly precise, and there could be a margin of error of about 100K. While the bare bulb, reflector, and umbrella showed minimal variation in white balance, the setup with the octabox measured approximately 800K warmer. However, since I also adjusted the power level when switching modifiers, I can’t say definitively whether the difference was due to the modifier itself or the change in output power of the light. Different power settings result in different white balances and different modifiers effect the color of the light too. A more controlled test would be needed to confirm.
Great video. I do have a question. I have seen some videos of a photographer that likes beauty dishes with grids and uses them a lot. She uses the bigger dishes. I have a magnum reflector which is about 14 inch with a grid 30 and a 12" and 7" reflectors with same grids. have been looking at a 22 to 28 with grid to light a larger area of the body instead of just head shots but they are expensive, 150usd for 22" with grid and . I already have a 24-48" softbox that have grids. Can I get the same or similar effects using those softboxes instead of of beauty dish. This would save me some money over the, 27-28" beauty dishes, which are easily t damage. They are also 270usd. Are the grids too big in the softboxes to compete against the beauty dishes?
Thank you! The light from a softbox with a grid will look quite different from a beauty dish with a grid. However, I’d question whether a beauty dish with a grid is significantly different from a Magnum reflector with a grid.
The beauty of a beauty dish-pun intended-lies in its design without a grid. The light reflects off the back of the dish and also off the rim at about a 45-degree angle, creating sculpting light where these diagonal beams cross. Adding a grid blocks these diagonal beams.
In this video, I take a deep dive into beauty dishes, including a demonstration of how adding a grid affects the modifier. Hope it helps! ruclips.net/video/VO3R8DTEzJU/видео.html
@@JohnGress I did watch your other video. I just wish I understood what 3 dimensional means or what it looks like. I cannot see it in your examples, probably because I don't have the experience you do with these modifiers or even portrait photography. You also say, this is considered "wrong". Is there a list of "wrong" things not to do? Also your suggestion to shoot at the distance of the size of the beauty dish. I have seen another photographer that shoot at a distance double that distance and with grid. Her images look great, but would it be considered wrong? I would rather not be "wrong" but what latitude does distance have. Farther away is harder light but then using another flash or reflector to fill in the shadows is the way to work around this?
‘Wrong’ is always subjective, but efficiency is not. You might use a certain modifier to achieve a specific look, but understanding how different distances and grids affect the light can help you determine which tool is the most efficient for the job.
The differences shown in the beauty dish video are subtle, but you can see how the crossing light beams create a distinct sculpting effect. Regarding the other photographer’s method, I’d question whether her results are meaningfully different from what you’d get with an 18-21cm grid reflector at the same distance, given how a gridded beauty dish channels light. If the two setups produce similar quality of light, then using the smaller, more affordable modifier might be the more efficient choice.
This video compares beauty dishes to softboxes, so it may help clarify that 3-dimensional effect-or you might decide it’s all just hype! Let me know what you think. ruclips.net/video/5puD6liIn8M/видео.html
You said there are white, silver, and translucent umbrellas. What about gold umbrellas? I've got a gold umbrella... Are they officially out of market now? do we hate them? what is it?
it probably messes up your white balance. silver does too. white is the best for accurate color. silver is a bit on the cool side. My Elinchrom octa has 5000k wb. And my Godox white umbrella is more around 5600k wb (and the flash should be around 5500k - 5700k depending on the power.) but if you like gold, i think they still sell them, they also have gold reflectors. so i think maybe the gold umbrella is made for active fill light maybe? They should make blue and green ones etc so you have a color filtered fill light. but it is probably cheaper to buy the color filters.
I don’t think I’ve seen a gold one before, but I have seen some inserts for the back to make them gold ish and I remember 25 years ago seeing gold lined soft boxes, but it has been a minute. As for the white balance I found when I tested things previously that a silver umbrella And a bare bulb flash have the same white balance, so while it does feel like the light from a silver umbrella is cool, it’s actually neutral where as a white umbrella warms up the light slightly. That’s why I always suggest that if you are using multiple lights in a scene that it’s best for you to use all white or all silver modifiers.
@420sigmapower I have a recessed face for one of my small strip soft boxes so I know what you mean. Taking it off is next to impossible if you want to just use a deflector so I use it for my hair light.
@@JohnGress I don't agree about white balance. my godox qt2 should be 5500-5700k according to the manual(all the temperatures are mentioned in the manual) and with a white godox umbrella that is exactly what i get. And with my Elinchrom octa (with godox/bowens speedring) i get 5000k to 5100k. And to me that is too cool. And with only inner diffuser i get 5400k which is already a bit closer to what it should be. Maybe it is just different because i use it on a godox strobe. But my godox umbrella gives me accurate barebulb temperatures. so i am not sure why my elinchrom does not.
@420sigmapower I wouldn’t take the manual at face value for bare bulb numbers without testing it. Wb shifts over the power range and they could vary unit to unit, flash to flash. When I performed this test with a Profoto light and their own 7” modifier without changing the power of the flash, a key factor, the white balance was the same. When I added a soft box, the temperature shifted 500 to 700° lower, which is warmer, not cooler. This happens because when light passes through fabric, it becomes warmer. I would encourage you to test your flash at the same power with multiple modifiers and set the white balance with a gray card. Also keep in mind that there will be a slight variance in each flash burst so you may want to do the test three times with each modifier.