John, I have been a photographer for 14 years, and have watched 100s of hours of lighting videos/tutorials. Your video has packed more useful and never seen before information. It’s truly remarkable. I think I learned more about beauty dishes in this video than I have in all the videos I’ve watched prior! Thank you so much! Can’t wait to go through all your other content!
I have been a professional commercial photographer for thirty years and John, this is the most complete class on shooting with a beauty dish I have ever scene. I was raised on the same principal for BDs or I was also taught, the length of your arm, which is not very technical. You have done a great job on this subject, I hope everyone that sees it goes and does tests with their own dishes, it's one thing to hear it and another to go do it!
This is great info. One thing for a home with a small studio: I bought the 28” dish. Without a grid it may as well be a soft box, with white walls it is way too big to control in a small room.
@@JohnGress for what it’s worth I spent a lot of time playing with different modifiers. I found a small strip box 1x3 horizontally with a grid allows for a ton of control of fall off and is very easy to position even in a room with 8 foot ceilings in an all white room and providers similar high contrast look. I was able to achieve an all black background. For someone wanting a less soft light but for someone who doesn’t have room for a large beauty dish. The issue with the beauty dish and an 8x9x10 foot room is between the light stand, camera, and backdrop there just wasn’t enough room for me to get the light to fall off. You’ve got me thinking i should try again with a 17” one though. 😀
You are doing what I did with my modifier when I started photography 👍 Just to learn they’re different and lighting character! It takes time, but keep videos like this coming😊 it’s very informative for other photographers 👍 Thank you for sharing videos like this, it’s good for the community 👍
Great video. In my estimation, the beauty dish is the least understood light modifier however by estimation its not the most abused because umbrellas and softbox are more widely used. This video demonstrates how to understand the output pattern of a beauty dish with a very easy method. In addition, excellent information how to apply a beauty dish into portrait work. I teach a PPA workshop in the fall for beauty dishes that includes the light pattern method demonstrated in this video and I am glad to see this method demonstrated on youtube. Thank you.
I’m a long-term viewer of your channel, and I believe this is the best educational video you’ve made. I learned multiple things, even stuff I didn’t plan to learn (like that light warms up when it travels through diffusion). Thank you so much for all of your effort prepping, scripting, shooting, editing, and delivering digestible, innovative, and helpful information on this topic. I’m in the Chicago northwest burbs, and I plan to be in your studio someday either for a future workshop or a portrait photo session for myself!
I am deeply impressed by your explanation. I'm relatively new to portraits and your comparisons between various scenarios are really helpful in improving my perspective. Keep up your amazing work, sir!
I've been working on commercial, fashion and advertising jobs for 14 years now, and I've only come across a handful of photographers that actually know how to use a beauty dish. Nicely done. Most of the time they want it 6' or more away from he subject and I've even seen them want the diffusion to go on top of the grid.
Someone allegedly after watching my video, commented that they swore by using their beauty dish with the grid and the sock and while I didn’t test it out in this video, I can imagine the results.
I feel seen. At times I thought I had no idea what I was doing with my beauty dish. I just did whatever I was told. Loved seeing the results from the test and I sincerely appreciate your curiosity.
Thank you for a great video. I bought an elinchrom beauty dish several years ago and gave up on it as the results were far from my expectation. I recently ordered a grid for it thinking to give it a second chance and hence my video tutorial search. After finding and watching this I am really excited to get everything setup as I now feel I better understand what I was doing wrong before.
@@JohnGress and then I tried while the model was in the makeup room with some selfies and that didnt work...... I need to test more....I do a lot of beauty photography and the look of a beauty dish is nice but it only shines on the head. the chest is substantially darker. I tried the lower spotlight that you had but that was too bright....so I went back to my standard setup that always works. need to test more on this....
I appreciate the time and effort you put into making this video. As usual, you pack a lot of incredibly useful information in your videos, and your portraiture is some of the best I've seen. Thank you for sharing. :)
Your videos are so good. Really easy to understand and the information is so useful. I've been using a beauty dish for years and I've never taken the grid off. I feel a bit stupid that I've never thought of using it without the grid. The information and the tests you have provided are gold. I can't thank you enough. Ace video. I can't wait to use my dish in the studio on my next shoot.
Thank you so much! I don’t think you should feel too stupid. I remember buying a beautify dish grid 10 years ago because I felt like it was an accessory that I had to have and because I thought it must be something really good to use if it costs that much. Now that really just sound stupid. I see a lot of people using the grid thinking that they’re controlling the spread of the light but obviously it’s so much more than just that. Grids can be really good in specific instances and there are other instances where they might not be giving you the light that you’re looking for
I´ve never used a beauty dish before, but the black card test was amazing. I did a print screen and push down the blacks on lightroom and was so nice... Excelent video.. I used to use a huge umbrella (1.90cm ) as fill light and I am having some quite good results. We can spent weeks playing with lights. thank you for another amazing moment of experience sharing.
This was incredibly informative! Since my college days of shooting with a Profoto beauty dish and getting great results, I've only ever purchased a folding beauty dish and the results haven't been the same. I stepped away from using the beauty dish I have on professional shoots because I couldn't get the results I wanted. After watching this video, I will surely use it on my next shoot now that I understand how distance affects a beauty dish. Thank you for the scientific approach you took to making this video!
Of course thank you so much! I wonder of these collapsible dishes really have the secret sauce since the rim seems to have a huge impact on the results. I remember seeing the convergence creating a night spot when manipulating the photo silver beauty dish.
I've also used reflective umbrellas and softboxes to add fill from directly behind the beauty dish or camera. Moving the fill from below the camera allows more space to photograph your subject with the BD.
Fantastic video John! Really informative. The cross section was really helpful to visualize the light pattern (I'm mostly self taught so I hadn't even heard of the distance rule) and the 3D models are great learning tools as well.
Fascinating. I have used the Elinchrom Beauty Dishes for years and was always told that to accentuate cheek bones place the beauty dish 1.5 to 2 times the width of the reflector away from the subject and above their face as you have shown. I never knew about the Y pattern--but from your tests it seems like that goes away when using the diffusion sock over the front of the dish. I have always used the diffusion sock with the silver reflector so I will have to do some testing next time I am using it and see what happens. Thanks for the extremely well researched video John!
I appreciate you sharing your knowledge here, I found it interesting and I’m going to try out what you taught us. I’ll be using my many different sizes of beauty dishes and softboxes with and without grids. My 14 year old granddaughter will be my model, I haven’t told her yet. If I plead and beg she’ll do it.🕺🏻
Oh wow! I was what a great visual on how the light leaves the beauty dish and makes a “Y” beam of light! Thanks for this! I can’t wait to test my beauty dish out for the light output pattern, & lines of convergence! ❤ I will also be looking to purchase another one in a smaller size as I love that dramatic look for my younger portraits!
I stumbled upon this video in search of the effect of removing the center deflector of a beauty dish to use as a soft key light for video. Still watched the full thing. Great explanations
Thanks Mate! I hope you are doing well! I thought of you recently, because I was lining up a shoot with some dancers, and I almost bought a mini trampoline.
Good Info John..Thanks! Educational. I'm On a quest for the "Holy Grail" of modifiers. A modifier that creates the beautiful portrait lighting. One with the softness but yet has the definition (not mush) Thought about trying a beauty dish so your video is great info. Been using a med large48" octa box. sometimes w grid sometimes wo. It works okay but im really searching for the one that gives you the "Sfumato" style look in my portraits. Softness but definition but soft lines. maybe its using constant lights w shallow DOF. I often do the butterfly lighting w a "scoop" and sometimes w a strip and strobe below. Its a nice look but i want that soft contours with gentle modeling on the face (IE subtractive lighting) Anyway. Appreciate you taking the time analyze and do such an extensive research into the different aspects of beauty dishes and light controls!
Wow.. this is super comprehensive. If I ever make youtube videos, this is how comprehensive I should be :-) Love love love it. Found out about you after taking your class at WPPI . Loving thie content , John! :-)
You are such a talent for teaching John 🙏I have watched some of your videos now comparing different soft boxes or beauty dishes and I was wondering if your might be able to offer me some advice to what kind of light modifier I would get best results from for the following upcoming client photoshoot: I will be photographing a model using yoga mats (which is the product being photographed) in different situations: She will be doing yoga on the floor + standing/walking with the rolled mat. Te location will be a large public (closed on the day of the photoshoot) botanical garden green house - which means lots of light. I plan to bring one light either with an umbrella, a small softbox or a white beauty dish - just to add a bit of fill light to the model’s face etc. Natural light will be used for general light, flash only for the model. The reason I considered getting a white beauty dish for the shoot was primarily to act as a smaller version of a soft box. I imagine there are restrictions in the botanical garden green house that don’t allow me to alway place the light where we would like to - rather they will probably have to stay on the (sometimes) narrow paths. That means light will sometimes have to come from in front of the models face and not from the side as I would have preferred. I am not used to working with beauty dishes but thought it could be a great small sized softbox. However, when you mention the 1 meter distance I start doubting. I will have to place my light maybe 2-5 meters from the model. So what would you recommend me in that case? Or maybe a Sunbounce Silver reflector will actually be enough and much easier to work with (let the client hold it for me). Please let mw know you thoughts if you have a spare moment for it 🌱 Thanks so much in advance John - hope you can offer some advice. It would be much appreciated for sure 🫶 Best from Susanne
Thank you so much Susanne! If I could only own one softbox it would be tis one Elinchrom Rotalux Deep Octabox (100cm / 39”) Adorama howl.me/cjCnv90VNi5 Amazon amzn.to/3fRG5AH B&H bhpho.to/3oSg0cy I think it would be a great choice for your shoot, but I might remove the outer layer of diffusion if its sunny so it will closer match the color temperature of the sun. You could also use an umbrella like this one. The silver one if its sunny and the white one if its cloudy. Elinchrom Deep Umbrella (Silver, 49") Adorama howl.me/cjCnv9siDlr B&H bhpho.to/42dasrm Elinchrom Deep Umbrella (White, 49") Adorama howl.me/cjCnv96Jz4i Amazon amzn.to/3H0DAIn B&H bhpho.to/3nfjjdg
Very useful and in-depth information. I have a 27" Paul C Buff beauty dish and I am most comfortable using it at the diameter/distance method. I also have a collapsible beauty dish, and I haven't experimented with it. Many typically use it as a soft box, I need to start experimenting with it as well.
So good. Never knew the diameter = distance rule. Neat! Excited to test with my dish with it's flat back - wonder where the light will converge? Hmmm... Thanks for feeding my inner lighting-geek!
I currently own two beauty dishes. 21.6" white and silver. They provide a really nice light which is great for sculpting the face and subject. You will get highlights on the T zone if the subject is looking straight forwards. Modifier distance wise I have always worked 1-2 times the diameter of the modifier but it also depends on the look I want and what I want lit in the scene. That said it will depend on the shape of the face as well. My white dish will provide a warmer light which is more diffused than the silver and the silver will be cooler and more specular. A lot of people discount the diffusion socks on them, sure is makes the light more homogenous but it does what it should and diffuses the light , it also negates any shadows cast on the background from the dish rim when placing the dish off axis. Grid... well grids are just awesome. Bring the drama and contrast. 😄 Before I landed on the 21.6" dishes I tried the 27" and 16" versions and they were to large or too small. The 21.6" is perfect for my small studio space and low ceiling height.
Thank you John, very informative video. Good work! I love such experiments! :) One more factor which may influence the light bouncing behaviour heavily, which I think you didn't mention explicitly (only implicitly in "YMMV with other lights") would be, I guess, how far the flash bulb sticks into the modifier. Some lights have an adjustable "focus" (i.e. setting how far the light sticks into the modified), which can then be used to directly influence the line crossing distance or other characteristics. So saying "Beauty dish XY by brand Z has the most 3D-looking characteristics at distance 0.9m from the face" might be misleading.
Muito boa a Aula Vou fazer o teste do diametro com a metragem para testar o beauty que eu tenho aqui de uma marca Brasileira . So para aprender seguindo estas regras de medida como base a mesma iluminação. Muito obrigado pelo conteúdo e maestria em repassar todo este conhecimento ... Sou grato por tudo
Obrigada e obrigada por assistir! Espero que meu vídeo ajude e tenho certeza de que você encontrará o que funciona para você e fará ótimas fotos com seu beauty dish!
Thanks for a very informative video, John. I am going to use your technique to compare a hard beauty dish to a collapsible beauty dish. In my hands, collapsible beauty dishes behave like a typical soft box and not a hard beauty dish. The grid on the collapsible beauty dish has also been problematic for me. I see a distinct checkerboard pattern cause by the thickness of the grid itself when angling the beauty dish down. The hard beauty dish doesn’t have that problem as the grid itself is very thin. I would be curious to know your thoughts on collapsible beauty dishes. Thanks again.
Thank you Stephen! Please let me know what you discover. After conducting these tests, I am highly doubtful that a collapsible beauty dish can do what a silver beauty dish can do. Maybe they kind of come close to the lighting pattern of the white beauty dish
Thanks John! So I also like to use the diffusion on my Elinchrom modifiers and it’s true it warms up the color temp. Sometimes I get yellowish hotspots, especially when subjects have used tanning cremes or make up. Do you recognize this and how do you correct this, in the studio or in post?
I think if youre seeing hot spots it's probably because the makeup isn't matte. Everyone talks about hot spots all of the time, but it's not something I really encounter.
@@JohnGress Thank you for telling me I am not the only one talking about this. Really matters to me! ;-) And thanks for replying of course, strangely enough I never thought about the matte-ness of makeup.
hi John. One quibble. The Elinchrom deflector kit comes with two opaque deflectors (silver and gold), a translucent (white) disc, and a frosted disk. The opaque deflectors block all light from passing through with the silver being neutral and the gold providing some warmth to the light. The white translucent (1-stop) allows some direct light to pass through. And the frosted (1/2-stop) allows more direct light to pass through. It looks like you are using the white/translucent disc in your beauty dishes, not an opaque deflector. Mola, Speedotron, and Elinchrom are the only beauty dishes I've used that have a translucent disc. Most other brands have an opaque white deflector.
Thx for that. I want to buy just 1 beauty dish and first of all you saved me a lot of time checking them and a lot of money because now I know I need 70cm silver one. Scientific approach for the win :D
Great video. I'm always curious, I notice some photographers do it and some do not, but regardless of the type of shoot, with strobes, do you start with settings that give you a completely black photo, then add in your lights? That way to control and avoid any light spills that may come from the room?
Thanks! most of the time if you are shooting a 1/200 f5.6 ISO ISO100 or something similar, the ambient light (unless its sunlight through a window) wont have an affect indoors. So it's not something I think about from a starting point, but it is something that I am aware can happen inside if I start shooting with wider apertures or high ISOs.
Thanks for this, John! Does the use of a grid change the quality of the light reaching the subject (specular vs diffused) due to the fact that it eliminates the crossing light?
I think the grid really increases the contrast. I felt like it kind of made the models and mannequin look less three dimensional in the lighting in the tests I did too.
The direction/shape of the output depends on the position of the bare bulb relative to the focal point of this shallow parabola; this is adjustable with a clamp adaptor, but not with a strobe with integral modifier mount.
Insightful comparison of the difference in the light pattern between the silver and white dishes. Your tests are always thorough! I am continuing to use the Mola in white with the opal deflector, typically with an active fill for control. I do find I can get away with a longer distance than the diameter of the dish, perhaps because it is a ridged design. I'll have to test the light pattern to see how it compares. Not a fan of grids with beauty dishes. As you demonstrated, you lose the wrap around light that is the signature of the beauty light.
Thanks! I might have to ask my friends to come over with his mola, so we can check it out! Please let us know if you do the cross-section test with yours.
Doesn’t that just turn it into a soft box? You’re diffusing all the light coming from the beauty dish. This topic is still a little confusing for me trying to figure out if there’s a reason to not just use a soft box in that situation.
I'll change my advice slightly. if you are photographing younger people silver. If you are photographing older people white. As for size something between 55 and 70cm,
So (and I guess this goes for other modifiers as well) the closer you put the modifier, the softer light you get which in itself might be flattering to the subject but it can also make the face wider? Too far away though and you loose the 3D feeling. So the best bet is to stay close to the diameter of the modifier if your goal is to have slimming light?
Those characteristics are specific to this modifier. With other modifiers, the governing principle would be that the larger it looks to the subject, the softer it will be. It’s traditionally sad that if you want to slim your subject have them angle their head towards a light source,which is referred to as short lighting.
This video might help The 9 types of portrait lighting photographers need to know-whether they're on location or in studio ruclips.net/video/c7gpFQwtF68/видео.html
I’m curious to know if there is a similar distance formula for the Elinchrom indirect 75 inch octa for portraiture. I have had one of those for a year and don’t feel like I am using it correctly.
I have acquired four of them over the years from different sources, but here are link where you could buy them. Elinchrom Indirect Litemotiv Strip Softbox (13 x 69”) Adorama howl.me/cjCnml5FQG0 Amazon amzn.to/33NTasn B&H bhpho.to/44b7B43
@@JohnGress Thank you John. Elinchrom seems to have discontinued the strip, recta and square from the Indirect LiteMotiv series. If you’re in close contact with Elinchrom, would you be able to find out if only the 190 octa will be made going forward?
Can you please make a this type of video on elinchrom square reflector 44cm white with grid? Also please ask elinchrom to relaunch it.... thanks for inspiring me
First of all. After watching this full video, other RUclips channels are cheating us with 7 minute videos. 2nd, do you have a Sportrait download for purchase 🤔
Thank you so much for your complement! I have these three lighting handbooks and you could use the setups for any type of portraits. plus they are 50% off for our Memorial Day Sale, which ends today. johngress.com/lightinghandbooks/
You proved that the recommended distance start point is the diameter of a front on modifier. When I am asked what is the right distance; I say that when the light starts to live. That is the effect of light, distance, and above all the subject's skin/makeup if any. Doesn't matter if it is an octa, beauty dish, bowl, or other. Distance makes all the difference, just move the light until the skin starts to become real. Too close is too flat and pasty. Too far is harsh but sometimes can work for men although if the skin starts to loose that beauty look it is less than ideal. I am lucky with Broncolor as the modeling lights are 650w and well placed to represent the actual flash making it fairly accurate for wysiwyg. Otherwise you need to do a lot more test pictures...
hehe, I went to the same with these beauty dishes … and no, now Elinchrom is more or less alone with real, working beauty dishes. Ok, mola is super rare outside the Us. There are a lot of bowens beauty dishes, but they are not really work like this. Weirdly it is the same with strip boxes, there are the indirect Elinchrom ones and total garbage from others. Other big known brands don't really build them anymore. Another huge topic would be ring flashes, to make them really work it is nearly as complicated.
@@JohnGress absolutly but there was also a lot of super overpriced studio stuff which got insanly cheap and better, like fresnel lenses… flash adapted ones where totaly absurd priced. now better ones with a aperture 1200W LED are half the priece inkl. the light.
I was good till 18:00 . .you make some assumptions about lighting for young and old people, not taking into consideration what the desired outcome is. . . I wish you had included some samples her, other than just a ramble . . . .
John, I have been a photographer for 14 years, and have watched 100s of hours of lighting videos/tutorials. Your video has packed more useful and never seen before information. It’s truly remarkable. I think I learned more about beauty dishes in this video than I have in all the videos I’ve watched prior! Thank you so much! Can’t wait to go through all your other content!
Wow! I hope the videos help and thank you for your kind words!
I have been a professional commercial photographer for thirty years and John, this is the most complete class on shooting with a beauty dish I have ever scene. I was raised on the same principal for BDs or I was also taught, the length of your arm, which is not very technical. You have done a great job on this subject, I hope everyone that sees it goes and does tests with their own dishes, it's one thing to hear it and another to go do it!
Thank you so much! I often use the length of my arm to determine where the soft box should be when I sit down to record these videos. 😀
Damn, this is like a college research capstone project presentation. Thanks for making this John!
Ha! Thanks for the huge complement!
The test shots on the card at 07:30 are so informative! Great idea.
Thanks Bob! I was so happy the day I discovered that I could do this because I knew it would be a game changer when explaining how beauty dishes work!
Another fantastic video. The test on the black card was a genius idea to see how the light spread.
Thanks! I was pretty geeked when I discovered I could do this!
This is great info. One thing for a home with a small studio: I bought the 28” dish. Without a grid it may as well be a soft box, with white walls it is way too big to control in a small room.
The dish distance to the subject will play a big factor in the fall off and spread too.
@@JohnGress for what it’s worth I spent a lot of time playing with different modifiers. I found a small strip box 1x3 horizontally with a grid allows for a ton of control of fall off and is very easy to position even in a room with 8 foot ceilings in an all white room and providers similar high contrast look. I was able to achieve an all black background. For someone wanting a less soft light but for someone who doesn’t have room for a large beauty dish.
The issue with the beauty dish and an 8x9x10 foot room is between the light stand, camera, and backdrop there just wasn’t enough room for me to get the light to fall off.
You’ve got me thinking i should try again with a 17” one though. 😀
This is top tier depth and breadth; and it isn’t the first time on this channel. Really awesome, and helpful, stuff. Thank you.
Awesome, thank you so much! I hope it helps.
Truly enjoyed the tests you did with the BDs and the ‘Y’ light throw together with your description. Thank you soo much. Cheers.
Thanks! I hope it was helpful!
Excellent ! Thanks for a very well done and complete study done by a talented teacher.
Wow! Thank you so much!
For the first time I can actually see what a beauty dish is doing. Thank you for that. 😃
That’s great! I’m so glad I figured out this black card test!
This is complete guide how to use beauty dish and video included get most answered all questions about. Respect for your work John!
Thank you so much 🙂
This felt like school in a good way lol. I don’t like school but I can sit through this guy section for hours
Ha! Don't worry there wont be a midterm!
John! This has been a very educative capsule. I finally understood the behaviour of the beauty dish. Thanks a ton! Cheers.
Thanks! Glad it was helpful!
You are doing what I did with my modifier when I started photography 👍
Just to learn they’re different and lighting character!
It takes time, but keep videos like this coming😊 it’s very informative for other photographers 👍
Thank you for sharing videos like this, it’s good for the community 👍
THanks! Making more content like this is my goal for 2024!
Great video. In my estimation, the beauty dish is the least understood light modifier however by estimation its not the most abused because umbrellas and softbox are more widely used. This video demonstrates how to understand the output pattern of a beauty dish with a very easy method. In addition, excellent information how to apply a beauty dish into portrait work. I teach a PPA workshop in the fall for beauty dishes that includes the light pattern method demonstrated in this video and I am glad to see this method demonstrated on youtube. Thank you.
Thank you so much! I hope this helps people better understand how to use them.
Another great video John. I've been winging it for years.
We can do better! Lol thanks.
wow, the best tutorial I've seen in recent years.
Thank you, great details and explanation, a teacher! From today I am your fan
Wow, thanks you so much!!
Thank you John for your teachings!
Thank you for watching. I hope it helps!
I’m a long-term viewer of your channel, and I believe this is the best educational video you’ve made. I learned multiple things, even stuff I didn’t plan to learn (like that light warms up when it travels through diffusion). Thank you so much for all of your effort prepping, scripting, shooting, editing, and delivering digestible, innovative, and helpful information on this topic. I’m in the Chicago northwest burbs, and I plan to be in your studio someday either for a future workshop or a portrait photo session for myself!
Thank you so much for taking the time to leave this comment! I hope the information helps and hope to see you soon!
I am deeply impressed by your explanation. I'm relatively new to portraits and your comparisons between various scenarios are really helpful in improving my perspective. Keep up your amazing work, sir!
Awesome, thank you!
I've been working on commercial, fashion and advertising jobs for 14 years now, and I've only come across a handful of photographers that actually know how to use a beauty dish. Nicely done. Most of the time they want it 6' or more away from he subject and I've even seen them want the diffusion to go on top of the grid.
Someone allegedly after watching my video, commented that they swore by using their beauty dish with the grid and the sock and while I didn’t test it out in this video, I can imagine the results.
Thank you for sharing this John, you making amazing content for photography! This is great!
My pleasure! Thank you!
I feel seen. At times I thought I had no idea what I was doing with my beauty dish. I just did whatever I was told.
Loved seeing the results from the test and I sincerely appreciate your curiosity.
Thanks G! I was definitely doing whatever without really knowing!
Thank you for a great video. I bought an elinchrom beauty dish several years ago and gave up on it as the results were far from my expectation. I recently ordered a grid for it thinking to give it a second chance and hence my video tutorial search. After finding and watching this I am really excited to get everything setup as I now feel I better understand what I was doing wrong before.
That's awesome! I hope this video really helps you when the gear arrives. Thanks and have a wonderful new year!
This is just absolute enlightening. Thanks!
You're very welcome! Thank!
again amazing and helpful content....thanks very much....inspired me to try it today...
Thank you so much! That is great to hear!
@@JohnGress and then I tried while the model was in the makeup room with some selfies and that didnt work...... I need to test more....I do a lot of beauty photography and the look of a beauty dish is nice but it only shines on the head. the chest is substantially darker. I tried the lower spotlight that you had but that was too bright....so I went back to my standard setup that always works. need to test more on this....
now I figured out my problem. I placed the beauty dish too far away. I really needs to be close.
Ok nice! Glad you got it sorted!
I appreciate the time and effort you put into making this video. As usual, you pack a lot of incredibly useful information in your videos, and your portraiture is some of the best I've seen. Thank you for sharing. :)
Wow! Thank you so much!
@@JohnGress Between you and Lindsay Adler, I think RUclips has all the studio photography teachers the world needs. :)
What a great video! Went well above and beyond beauty dishes. Thank you
Thank you so much! I hope it helps!
Thank you. I find your information to be relatable and easy to understand.
That is great to hear! Thank you!
Your videos are so good. Really easy to understand and the information is so useful. I've been using a beauty dish for years and I've never taken the grid off. I feel a bit stupid that I've never thought of using it without the grid. The information and the tests you have provided are gold. I can't thank you enough. Ace video. I can't wait to use my dish in the studio on my next shoot.
Thank you so much! I don’t think you should feel too stupid. I remember buying a beautify dish grid 10 years ago because I felt like it was an accessory that I had to have and because I thought it must be something really good to use if it costs that much. Now that really just sound stupid. I see a lot of people using the grid thinking that they’re controlling the spread of the light but obviously it’s so much more than just that. Grids can be really good in specific instances and there are other instances where they might not be giving you the light that you’re looking for
This video did not disappoint! Great stuff my guy!
Thanks! I was ecstatic
when I discovered the black card test. See you soon!
Awesome content John, you truly rock ! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thank you much for sharing !
Thank you so much!
I´ve never used a beauty dish before, but the black card test was amazing. I did a print screen and push down the blacks on lightroom and was so nice... Excelent video.. I used to use a huge umbrella (1.90cm ) as fill light and I am having some quite good results. We can spent weeks playing with lights. thank you for another amazing moment of experience sharing.
That’s great to hear! I never thought about dropping the blacks. Great idea.
This is a great deep-dive. I loved seeing the radical differences in the appearance of the faces as the beauty dish was moved.
Thanks Guy! I think you might have inspired me to buy my first beauty dish after I saw you using one during the 2010 US Olympic team photoshoot!
John! your shirt is CRISP! wow
Thanks! It was brand new and never washed.
Thank you so much John! Always I learn a lot from your video tutorials! This one was very informative and useful as well! God bless and good luck!
You are very welcome! Thats great to hear.
This was incredibly informative! Since my college days of shooting with a Profoto beauty dish and getting great results, I've only ever purchased a folding beauty dish and the results haven't been the same. I stepped away from using the beauty dish I have on professional shoots because I couldn't get the results I wanted. After watching this video, I will surely use it on my next shoot now that I understand how distance affects a beauty dish. Thank you for the scientific approach you took to making this video!
Of course thank you so much! I wonder of these collapsible dishes really have the secret sauce since the rim seems to have a huge impact on the results. I remember seeing the convergence creating a night spot when manipulating the photo silver beauty dish.
I am like a fild of corn, All ears! Teach John, I have learned a ton on this one,
Ha! I hope it helps 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Such a wonderful content and job, Congrats Mr. John! You are something
Thank you so much!😊
I love it. I’ve done the same thing, only with CG light modifiers and CG foam core and the Maxwell Renderer.
Awesome contents ! Many questions have been answered! Thank you for your teachings.
Wow. Thank you so much!
I've also used reflective umbrellas and softboxes to add fill from directly behind the beauty dish or camera. Moving the fill from below the camera allows more space to photograph your subject with the BD.
Fantastic video John! Really informative. The cross section was really helpful to visualize the light pattern (I'm mostly self taught so I hadn't even heard of the distance rule) and the 3D models are great learning tools as well.
That’s great to hear! I’m mostly self-taught too and I make these videos to help others so they don’t have to do so much trial and error.
great instructions for portrait shootings. Thanks a lot 👍👍👍
Glad it was helpful! Thank you so much!
Fascinating. I have used the Elinchrom Beauty Dishes for years and was always told that to accentuate cheek bones place the beauty dish 1.5 to 2 times the width of the reflector away from the subject and above their face as you have shown. I never knew about the Y pattern--but from your tests it seems like that goes away when using the diffusion sock over the front of the dish. I have always used the diffusion sock with the silver reflector so I will have to do some testing next time I am using it and see what happens. Thanks for the extremely well researched video John!
Sure thing! I think my sock is going to be let in my bin 99.9% of the time from now on.
Thanks John! Great video!
My pleasure! Glad you liked it!
I appreciate you sharing your knowledge here, I found it interesting and I’m going to try out what you taught us. I’ll be using my many different sizes of beauty dishes and softboxes with and without grids. My 14 year old granddaughter will be my model, I haven’t told her yet. If I plead and beg she’ll do it.🕺🏻
Ha! Have a great time🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
So good! Thank you, John!
My pleasure! Thanks!
Oh wow! I was what a great visual on how the light leaves the beauty dish and makes a “Y” beam of light! Thanks for this! I can’t wait to test my beauty dish out for the light output pattern, & lines of convergence! ❤ I will also be looking to purchase another one in a smaller size as I love that dramatic look for my younger portraits!
Thanks! When I figured out I could do that test I was geeked up all day! 😀Please let us know your results!
@@JohnGress Ha! Will do! I was practically giddy!!! Which definitely makes me think my friends calling me a lighting geek might have some truth!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I stumbled upon this video in search of the effect of removing the center deflector of a beauty dish to use as a soft key light for video. Still watched the full thing. Great explanations
Thanks! I don’t think I answered that question in the video but I think it would look fairly similar to a 7” reflector but maybe not as hard.
@@JohnGress i figure that. Same but with a wider light spread. I’m thinking low power, as close as possible with maybe a grid. Subscribed💪🏽
Dang good video John, I have both sizes in white and this helps a lot. Keep the good work comming.
Thanks Mate! I hope you are doing well! I thought of you recently, because I was lining up a shoot with some dancers, and I almost bought a mini trampoline.
This video was awesome!
Thank you so much!
Good Info John..Thanks! Educational. I'm On a quest for the "Holy Grail" of modifiers. A modifier that creates the beautiful portrait lighting. One with the softness but yet has the definition (not mush) Thought about trying a beauty dish so your video is great info. Been using a med large48" octa box. sometimes w grid sometimes wo. It works okay but im really searching for the one that gives you the "Sfumato" style look in my portraits. Softness but definition but soft lines. maybe its using constant lights w shallow DOF. I often do the butterfly lighting w a "scoop" and sometimes w a strip and strobe below. Its a nice look but i want that soft contours with gentle modeling on the face (IE subtractive lighting) Anyway. Appreciate you taking the time analyze and do such an extensive research into the different aspects of beauty dishes and light controls!
Sure thing! I hope this video helps you on your journey!
Wow.. this is super comprehensive. If I ever make youtube videos, this is how comprehensive I should be :-)
Love love love it. Found out about you after taking your class at WPPI . Loving thie content , John! :-)
Thanks for the huge complement! I hope you enjoyed the class too and I hope to hear from you soon!
You are such a talent for teaching John 🙏I have watched some of your videos now comparing different soft boxes or beauty dishes and I was wondering if your might be able to offer me some advice to what kind of light modifier I would get best results from for the following upcoming client photoshoot:
I will be photographing a model using yoga mats (which is the product being photographed) in different situations: She will be doing yoga on the floor + standing/walking with the rolled mat.
Te location will be a large public (closed on the day of the photoshoot) botanical garden green house - which means lots of light. I plan to bring one light either with an umbrella, a small softbox or a white beauty dish - just to add a bit of fill light to the model’s face etc. Natural light will be used for general light, flash only for the model.
The reason I considered getting a white beauty dish for the shoot was primarily to act as a smaller version of a soft box.
I imagine there are restrictions in the botanical garden green house that don’t allow me to alway place the light where we would like to - rather they will probably have to stay on the (sometimes) narrow paths.
That means light will sometimes have to come from in front of the models face and not from the side as I would have preferred. I am not used to working with beauty dishes but thought it could be a great small sized softbox. However, when you mention the 1 meter distance I start doubting. I will have to place my light maybe 2-5 meters from the model. So what would you recommend me in that case?
Or maybe a Sunbounce Silver reflector will actually be enough and much easier to work with (let the client hold it for me). Please let mw know you thoughts if you have a spare moment for it 🌱
Thanks so much in advance John - hope you can offer some advice. It would be much appreciated for sure 🫶
Best from
Susanne
Thank you so much Susanne! If I could only own one softbox it would be tis one
Elinchrom Rotalux Deep Octabox (100cm / 39”)
Adorama howl.me/cjCnv90VNi5
Amazon amzn.to/3fRG5AH
B&H bhpho.to/3oSg0cy
I think it would be a great choice for your shoot, but I might remove the outer layer of diffusion if its sunny so it will closer match the color temperature of the sun.
You could also use an umbrella like this one. The silver one if its sunny and the white one if its cloudy.
Elinchrom Deep Umbrella (Silver, 49")
Adorama howl.me/cjCnv9siDlr
B&H bhpho.to/42dasrm
Elinchrom Deep Umbrella (White, 49")
Adorama howl.me/cjCnv96Jz4i
Amazon amzn.to/3H0DAIn
B&H bhpho.to/3nfjjdg
Great Video!
Thanks!
Very useful and in-depth information. I have a 27" Paul C Buff beauty dish and I am most comfortable using it at the diameter/distance method. I also have a collapsible beauty dish, and I haven't experimented with it. Many typically use it as a soft box, I need to start experimenting with it as well.
Glad it was helpful! I think my first beauty dish was the one you’re using.
Great Video! Thanks for the insight!
Thanks! I hope it was helpful!
Thank you a lot for the informations!!
My pleasure!
So good. Never knew the diameter = distance rule. Neat! Excited to test with my dish with it's flat back - wonder where the light will converge? Hmmm... Thanks for feeding my inner lighting-geek!
Ha. Thank you Jenny! Please let us know the results.
For sure!@@JohnGress
Very interesting video!
Thank you so much!
This is great information, exactly what I was looking for. I don't have a beauty dish in my setup yet, and I am looking to add the first one
Awesome! Glad it was helpful!
Amazingly informative! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thanks! I hope it was helpful!
Very thorough and illuminating ( sorry!) gives a lot of understanding and encourages experimentation.
Ha. Thanks for lighting up my world too!
I currently own two beauty dishes.
21.6" white and silver.
They provide a really nice light which is great for sculpting the face and subject. You will get highlights on the T zone if the subject is looking straight forwards.
Modifier distance wise I have always worked 1-2 times the diameter of the modifier but it also depends on the look I want and what I want lit in the scene.
That said it will depend on the shape of the face as well.
My white dish will provide a warmer light which is more diffused than the silver and the silver will be cooler and more specular.
A lot of people discount the diffusion socks on them, sure is makes the light more homogenous but it does what it should and diffuses the light , it also negates any shadows cast on the background from the dish rim when placing the dish off axis.
Grid... well grids are just awesome. Bring the drama and contrast. 😄
Before I landed on the 21.6" dishes I tried the 27" and 16" versions and they were to large or too small. The 21.6" is perfect for my small studio space and low ceiling height.
Thanks for sharing Rick. I’m sure your perspective is I’ll help improve the understanding of this topic too.
Thank you for this brilliant video.
Ohh and thanks for using the metric system ;-)
Thank you so much! My pleasure. Everything is already in metric but most Americans don’t know it 🤣🤣
Thank you John, very informative video. Good work! I love such experiments! :) One more factor which may influence the light bouncing behaviour heavily, which I think you didn't mention explicitly (only implicitly in "YMMV with other lights") would be, I guess, how far the flash bulb sticks into the modifier. Some lights have an adjustable "focus" (i.e. setting how far the light sticks into the modified), which can then be used to directly influence the line crossing distance or other characteristics. So saying "Beauty dish XY by brand Z has the most 3D-looking characteristics at distance 0.9m from the face" might be misleading.
Muito boa a Aula Vou fazer o teste do diametro com a metragem para testar o beauty que eu tenho aqui de uma marca Brasileira . So para aprender seguindo estas regras de medida como base a mesma iluminação. Muito obrigado pelo conteúdo e maestria em repassar todo este conhecimento ... Sou grato por tudo
Obrigada e obrigada por assistir! Espero que meu vídeo ajude e tenho certeza de que você encontrará o que funciona para você e fará ótimas fotos com seu beauty dish!
Thanks for a very informative video, John. I am going to use your technique to compare a hard beauty dish to a collapsible beauty dish. In my hands, collapsible beauty dishes behave like a typical soft box and not a hard beauty dish. The grid on the collapsible beauty dish has also been problematic for me. I see a distinct checkerboard pattern cause by the thickness of the grid itself when angling the beauty dish down. The hard beauty dish doesn’t have that problem as the grid itself is very thin. I would be curious to know your thoughts on collapsible beauty dishes. Thanks again.
Thank you Stephen! Please let me know what you discover. After conducting these tests, I am highly doubtful that a collapsible beauty dish can do what a silver beauty dish can do. Maybe they kind of come close to the lighting pattern of the white beauty dish
Thanks John! So I also like to use the diffusion on my Elinchrom modifiers and it’s true it warms up the color temp. Sometimes I get yellowish hotspots, especially when subjects have used tanning cremes or make up. Do you recognize this and how do you correct this, in the studio or in post?
I think if youre seeing hot spots it's probably because the makeup isn't matte. Everyone talks about hot spots all of the time, but it's not something I really encounter.
@@JohnGress Thank you for telling me I am not the only one talking about this. Really matters to me! ;-) And thanks for replying of course, strangely enough I never thought about the matte-ness of makeup.
hi John. One quibble. The Elinchrom deflector kit comes with two opaque deflectors (silver and gold), a translucent (white) disc, and a frosted disk. The opaque deflectors block all light from passing through with the silver being neutral and the gold providing some warmth to the light. The white translucent (1-stop) allows some direct light to pass through. And the frosted (1/2-stop) allows more direct light to pass through. It looks like you are using the white/translucent disc in your beauty dishes, not an opaque deflector. Mola, Speedotron, and Elinchrom are the only beauty dishes I've used that have a translucent disc. Most other brands have an opaque white deflector.
Thank you 🙏
Any time!
Thx for that.
I want to buy just 1 beauty dish and first of all you saved me a lot of time checking them and a lot of money because now I know I need 70cm silver one.
Scientific approach for the win :D
Thanks! I’m sure you’re going to love it!
@@JohnGress It's already sent to me :D.
Now I need a model :D.
Great video. I'm always curious, I notice some photographers do it and some do not, but regardless of the type of shoot, with strobes, do you start with settings that give you a completely black photo, then add in your lights? That way to control and avoid any light spills that may come from the room?
Thanks! most of the time if you are shooting a 1/200 f5.6 ISO ISO100 or something similar, the ambient light (unless its sunlight through a window) wont have an affect indoors. So it's not something I think about from a starting point, but it is something that I am aware can happen inside if I start shooting with wider apertures or high ISOs.
@@JohnGress Thank you for the reply and I will keep that in mind. Very much appreciated!
Thanks for this, John! Does the use of a grid change the quality of the light reaching the subject (specular vs diffused) due to the fact that it eliminates the crossing light?
I think the grid really increases the contrast. I felt like it kind of made the models and mannequin look less three dimensional in the lighting in the tests I did too.
Yes dont use it. You destroy the character of the beauty dish. A grid blocks the outside ring of light that gives that character of the light.
The direction/shape of the output depends on the position of the bare bulb relative to the focal point of this shallow parabola; this is adjustable with a clamp adaptor, but not with a strobe with integral modifier mount.
I have some heads where the flash tube moves in an out.
Insightful comparison of the difference in the light pattern between the silver and white dishes. Your tests are always thorough! I am continuing to use the Mola in white with the opal deflector, typically with an active fill for control. I do find I can get away with a longer distance than the diameter of the dish, perhaps because it is a ridged design. I'll have to test the light pattern to see how it compares. Not a fan of grids with beauty dishes. As you demonstrated, you lose the wrap around light that is the signature of the beauty light.
Thanks! I might have to ask my friends to come over with his mola, so we can check it out! Please let us know if you do the cross-section test with yours.
For my setup I use a silver beauty dish with a diffuser cover and a grid over that. Then I have an eyeliner reflector at stomach level of subject.
Doesn’t that just turn it into a soft box? You’re diffusing all the light coming from the beauty dish. This topic is still a little confusing for me trying to figure out if there’s a reason to not just use a soft box in that situation.
My wife hates that damn dish….. after watching your video, I think it's operator error. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, you are truly gifted.
Thank you so much! I hope it helps your marriage too! =P
John thank for video so i want to buy Beauty Dish so buy a white or silver?
Thanks! I will probably use silver ones 90% of the time moving forward.
Thank you 🙏 then I go to buy sliver but what siz do you recommend?
I'll change my advice slightly. if you are photographing younger people silver. If you are photographing older people white. As for size something between 55 and 70cm,
So (and I guess this goes for other modifiers as well) the closer you put the modifier, the softer light you get which in itself might be flattering to the subject but it can also make the face wider? Too far away though and you loose the 3D feeling. So the best bet is to stay close to the diameter of the modifier if your goal is to have slimming light?
Those characteristics are specific to this modifier. With other modifiers, the governing principle would be that the larger it looks to the subject, the softer it will be. It’s traditionally sad that if you want to slim your subject have them angle their head towards a light source,which is referred to as short lighting.
This video might help The 9 types of portrait lighting photographers need to know-whether they're on location or in studio
ruclips.net/video/c7gpFQwtF68/видео.html
I’m curious to know if there is a similar distance formula for the Elinchrom indirect 75 inch octa for portraiture. I have had one of those for a year and don’t feel like I am using it correctly.
With the diffusion fabric attached, I would expect the light to fan out like we saw in the sock test portion of this video. Stay tuned for. 190 video!
@@JohnGress Thank you John. Also, where did you purchase your four Elinchrom indirect strip boxes from?
I have acquired four of them over the years from different sources, but here are link where you could buy them. Elinchrom Indirect Litemotiv Strip Softbox (13 x 69”) Adorama howl.me/cjCnml5FQG0 Amazon amzn.to/33NTasn B&H bhpho.to/44b7B43
@@JohnGress Thank you John. Elinchrom seems to have discontinued the strip, recta and square from the Indirect LiteMotiv series. If you’re in close contact with Elinchrom, would you be able to find out if only the 190 octa will be made going forward?
Have you ordered the gray paper yet? 21:25
Ha! No but I need to!
fire 🔥🔥🔥 content
Thank you so much! I hope it helps!
Can you please make a this type of video on elinchrom square reflector 44cm white with grid? Also please ask elinchrom to relaunch it.... thanks for inspiring me
First of all. After watching this full video, other RUclips channels are cheating us with 7 minute videos. 2nd, do you have a Sportrait download for purchase 🤔
Thank you so much for your complement! I have these three lighting handbooks and you could use the setups for any type of portraits. plus they are 50% off for our Memorial Day Sale, which ends today. johngress.com/lightinghandbooks/
You proved that the recommended distance start point is the diameter of a front on modifier. When I am asked what is the right distance; I say that when the light starts to live. That is the effect of light, distance, and above all the subject's skin/makeup if any. Doesn't matter if it is an octa, beauty dish, bowl, or other. Distance makes all the difference, just move the light until the skin starts to become real. Too close is too flat and pasty. Too far is harsh but sometimes can work for men although if the skin starts to loose that beauty look it is less than ideal. I am lucky with Broncolor as the modeling lights are 650w and well placed to represent the actual flash making it fairly accurate for wysiwyg. Otherwise you need to do a lot more test pictures...
hehe, I went to the same with these beauty dishes … and no, now Elinchrom is more or less alone with real, working beauty dishes. Ok, mola is super rare outside the Us. There are a lot of bowens beauty dishes, but they are not really work like this. Weirdly it is the same with strip boxes, there are the indirect Elinchrom ones and total garbage from others. Other big known brands don't really build them anymore. Another huge topic would be ring flashes, to make them really work it is nearly as complicated.
It’s sad that brands keep cutting their product lines.
@@JohnGress absolutly
but there was also a lot of super overpriced studio stuff which got insanly cheap and better, like fresnel lenses… flash adapted ones where totaly absurd priced. now better ones with a aperture 1200W LED are half the priece inkl. the light.
I always found beauty dishes harder to work with than softboxes. So, I always preferred softboxes. Maybe I was just being lazy.
It's great to be able to play different songs on different days.
I like this. Minus the obvious advertising of evoto. It’s not good enough yet.
I was good till 18:00 . .you make some assumptions about lighting for young and old people, not taking into consideration what the desired outcome is. . . I wish you had included some samples her, other than just a ramble . . . .
👇 Promo'SM
$500 for a beauty dish, ouch!
Way too much talking & i literally skipped through looking for anything relevant.
I found this as dull as dish water