The fact that one man wrote this all by himself based on a vision where Jesus came to him and told him what to write reminds me of Joseph Smith and the Mormon Bible.
The passion translation is not a one man project, nor is it a new gospel. Brain is the lead translator, he is not the only one involved. TPT goes through MANY other respected pastors and scholars review and editing before it is set to print. ALSO, He revises and makes corrections as needed up each reprinting. One other thing...The footnotes are very significant and vital part when reading TPT. Brian makes sure to explain why he uses the wording he does, he will site the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic if there is a difference. He also speaks about the importance of all translations, he's not trying to replace or discount the previous versions. He's offering a fresh view that can be added to your personal study along with the others.
@@The_SeoulJourneryou've been misled. Brian Simmons has lied about his credentials. He has easily manipulated many in this group, by using your group jargon.
@seaweed349 @the_seouljourner How about both of you go sit with the lord and ask him for the answers INSTEAD of leaning on your own wisdom and understanding .. sound familiar? 😂
@@The_SeoulJourner "The passion translation is not a one man project..." No, it IS a one man project!!! If thee are other pastors involved, it is only AFTER Brain writes it!
More like "i want to show you the passion God has for you... by completely rewriting and changing the meaning of key verses in the bible by adding thousands of words that God did not say and calling it a bible translation." That would be a more accurate description of the Passion Translation.
The Passion Translation is Dominion Theology buzzwords added strategically into Scripture. It caters to those that are into Dominionism/7 Mountains Mandate, which is contrary to what God really says in His Word. Brian Simmons found a way to make good money off of this idea. It's a clever idea, but it will only last a lifetime and not for eternity.
It sounds like what you are trying to do is equate any criticism with a lack of love. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. It’s love for God, his word, and the people who read it that drives scholars and concerned Christians to criticize poor translations of the Bible.
It's not people's love that criticizes TPT. For most, its their egos. Bill's not equating "ANY" criticism with a lack of love, that's a false statement. I speak life to your wounded spirit, be healed!
@@djunk747 you don’t have authority to speak anything into anyone’s life. You’re not God, who is the only one who can speak anything into existence. That’s what all other translations of the Bible say, maybe the Passion says something different? Case in point.
The problem is that the Passion Translation shouldn't be called a "translation" but a commentary. When they use the word "translation" to make more money and have more people use it, this is what can lead people astray simply because its not a translation
The sketchy part is the “commentary” is woven into the very scripture itself and not fully separated from the text. That and it’s the work of one man Brian Simmons with extraordinary claims about hidden divine knowledge never before revealed to humanity.
@@denis-kononov I think that if you are going to make a commentary you also have to have some kind of qualifications? It appears to be just a passionate twisting of the Bible.
It is a terrible “translation” I would recommend checking out Mike Wingers exhaustive research. He hired biblical scholars to examine the work. They concluded it’s not biblical.
Im not saying I like the translation, know nothing about it.. but the Pharisees I’m sure did “exhaustive” research on Jesus messages. They were the most knowledgeable biblical scholars. They concluded it wasn’t biblical. The Bible says I need no teacher, only the anointing of the Holy Spirit. I can read a bad translation and still get something out of it because of the direction of the Holy Spirit. His sheep will hear his voice, and John 7 says anyone who wills to do his will he will know the whether doctrine is from men or from God. Don’t be so knowledgeable and dependent on mere men’s research in order to walk in confidence in the spirit. You need no teacher. The lord is able to make you stand
That wasn’t quite the scholars’ conclusion, with most saying it was a paraphrase. Mike may have concluded that and he may well be correct (which isn’t my point here), but most of the scholars he had on didn’t conclude that it’s not biblical
The passion bible (as stated in the preface in my copy) is based on the Aramaic texts as well as the greek texts. The author does not hide this and in-fact adds footnote explanations of when and why it makes sense, to him, to use one text over the other. The translator is a very thoughtful and passionate (not pun intended) believer from what i have seen and heard. It is incorrect to call the passion a commentary. But it is also disingenuous to say it is “not biblical” without the explanation of the texts he uses. I want to encourage all to research the Aramaic texts and their importance. I am not suggesting some long hidden truth conspiracy. I also want to encourage the research of the recognized greek texts that are used in modern “mainstream” translations (yes i am also including KJV 1611, it uses more than one text group or text family to produce its committee’s word for word type translation).
@@Mr39Brown Actually the Pharisees did not do exhaustive research in the scripture to verify Jesus’s words. They were using, not the word of God, but their own traditions added to the Scripture to justify their behavior. People have been saying “God said to me” since the beginning, that’s why we need a scripture to weed out truth from lies.
“This critical spirit that’s been around is not helpful”: God’s word calls his people to be critical, to have discernment, to “rightly handle the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15), and to “speak the truth in love” (Eph. 4:15) to those in the church that need to be told “hey I don’t think this is right”; because one of the things that the word is profitable for is “reproof and correction” (2 Tim. 3:16). Being critical is not equivalent to being hateful or unloving. Paul even criticized the Hebrews by calling them immature and that they needed to get back to the basics: “For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.” Heb. 5:12-14
Well put! Thanks for sharing this. Today’s most prolific hypocrites love to criticize critical people and judge judgmental people. There’s nothing inherently wrong with criticism and judgment, done rightly. Jesus and the apostles demonstrated this. But blind hypocrisy in the name of love is self-deceiving.
That's not what they meant by "critical" spirit. There's the good kind and the bad kind. If you learn Hebrew you will understand that context is everything! In this case Bill talks about "critical" as in overly-critical and looking to find fault due to an agenda, not a rational introspective verification. Bethel is very much about rational introspection as I have seen both from their approach and teachings as a whole. In this case, you guys just disagree. I would put more trust in Bill's ability to discern good from evil vs. all the keyboard warriors here...and so would millions of other Christians.
@@djunk747 I hold nothing against Bill Johnson personally or spiritually, but if he had said, as you did, that people were being "overly-critical and looking to find fault due to an agenda," then that would have been a much clearer statement. Simply referring to a "critical spirit" comes across as self-refuting: If I accuse somebody of having a "critical spirit" then am I not also being critical of them, and thus be operating in a "critical spirit" myself? That's how it comes across. And if I accuse somebody of being "judgmental" then am I not being judgmental of them? That is the hypocrisy to which I was referring (not of Bill himself, but of his poor choice of words here). If you know Hebrew, then you know that we must be precise in our words, and avoid self-refuting statements like "He's so judgmental" or "They have a critical spirit." Such statements are intrinsically judgmental and critical, an thus unavoidably hypocritical. Inserting the word "overly" is an acceptable way to correct that, as you rightly did. Thanks for understanding!
It sucks that any time anyone has any sort of rebuttal or concern, or point out straight up fallacy, its meet with "you just have a critical spirit." That makes no room for conversation, growth or sharpening. Its so intellectually dishonest to use that as an out on every single topic
I didn’t hear that in this conversation at all. What they did say is some highly intellectual Christians who enjoy the difficult texts are overly critical of easier to read versions that actually do help many new Christians, or even older Christians who may not fall into the realm of ‘intellect’. Let others enjoy texts even if you don’t. That’s what I heard here.
@@lorim2000 It is dishonest to say that people are in need of another translation because NASB or ESV is difficult to read. Agreed that NASB can be a little challenging but a 12 year old can read the ESV. If you want a paraphrase then you have the NLT, Message and Amplified given to the kids. It is intellectually dishonest to say that there is no other translation that is suitable for the kids. Why did he not mention the message or amplified? It is intellectually dishonest to say that the passion is a translation. I do not know hebrew and Greek but there are very clear places where the readers are equated to Christ and phrases are included whose meaning is not present in any translation which includes the message and amplified. This means that Brian Simmons is adding to the Bible and Bill Johnson is endorsing it.
@@lorim2000 You really should read up on the The Passion Translation and the various alarms raised about it from actual Biblical scholars. The TPT is not your run-of-the-mill easy to read translation like the NIV or GNB. It is rewriting of the text by someone who claims to have gotten special revelation from God that has enabled him to 'translate' the Bible despite having no training or scholarly credentials. It is also his own solo project and so he has no accountability or scholarly community to provide a guard and accountability. He claims to have translated his version from the original aramaic. There is no such thing. The New Testament was written in Greek.
Perhaps the problem is not that scholars are not in love with Jesus or have relationship with Him, but that we do not have fear of God and a reverence for his Word.
@@KristiLEvans1 Maybe I misunderstood, with all the haters on the comments. It seemed like you were implying that Bill Johnson was saying that scholars aren't in love with Jesus or have relationship with him. I assumed you were commenting that a fear of God or reverence for His word was your basis for rejecting the TPT. If I misunderstood, forgive me. Seeing the people in the chats who don't understand translations made me assume that's what you were saying.
@@KristiLEvans1 perhaps you inferred that, but it's not what was said. And you don't need to go far into the comments to see the lack of love expressed, which if any lack was addressed, is what was referred to. People apparently don't like to actually listen to people's explanations (or read TPT notes) and lack any grace and scholarly respect among differences in interpretation. If someone is bent out of shape because of the word 'translation' then they are stuck on the difference from their favorite ones and they aren't interested in the various methods of interpretation. And if any of them just visited the passion website they could read the page on the translation method which would calm any fears. Plus, as I've done many times in this chat, I'd post passages from the TPT in threads by haters and ask what they dislike - and they don't respond. If you or any have developed an opinion on TPT without reading it and the notes and knowing who it was translated for, then your criticisms are mere sour grapes and based on fear of what you're not used to. And idealogues like winger and others who dislike anything not of their tradition don't help. Though their fear based confusion has led to these videos, which I dig, so some good came from their denominational ignorant division causing terdiness.
I understand “liking” a translation, but with it being the actual Word of God, it still demands discerning research and careful consideration. Whether you like it or not, the actual work done to arrive at translation must be weighted more than your preference. Please reconsider using TPT as it a faulty “Bible.” Check out Mike Winger’s study of it for more info.
Gavin thinks there is only one interpretation or insight to be gained from any single passage in scripture. And it's his interpretation. So of course he would write posts like this. I bet Holy Spirit is so bored with Him when he reads scripture.
That sounds very reasonable, but you’re not answering the complaints. The complaints are The passion “translation“ is adding to the word of God.. paragraphs even entire chapter in John NOT The original text are being added to the passion “translation“. This is a very serious concern to anyone who loves the Bible!
Take it one step further. TPT isn’t just adding to Scripture, it’s completely changing scriptures. Look up Acts 3:21 is ESV, NKJV, NASB, even NIV and see what it says. Then look it up in TPT. It’s completely different. It’s extremely concerning.
@@Sojourningmomma - what do you think is a critical difference in Acts 3:21, and what versions are you comparing it to? I didn't see anything far off the mark in the translation of that verse.
@@dagman85 Brian Simmons claims that Jesus has given him "the secrets of aramaic manuscripts". Which there are 2 major problems with this as 1. There is no more revelation of Jesus after John's apocalyptic vision of revelation and 2. There simply are no aramaic manuscripts of the New Testament, all of it was written in Greek
At least he acknowledges that it's not a translation but a commentary. . . . If the author would acknowledge that, I would have less problems with it. . . My biggest problem is when they recommend it for new believers who don't know the Scriptures. . . . NKJV is actually very easy to read for people who don't like thee's or thou's.
You'd get the impression that this was about the Passion Translation being easier to read and understand. The real issue is the additions and alterations to fit an agenda, combined with dodgy 'research' and a claim to have secret translation information from Jesus.
Please watch Mike Wingers videos on The Passion Translation - ALL scholars he has interviewed and who have done a deep dive into specific books of TPT say do not read this! It’s dangerous dangerous dangerous.
Love what Bethel is doing, but I feel like this conversation was only a criticism of the critics of the translation! Not of the criticisms itself. Would love to hear a more thoughtful conversation of that, if this is something Bethel actually wants to engage in. If we follow the logic presented here, then no correction can ever be done, which we know that can't be true. Also, a good translation would be to convey the author's intent, not the translators intent. So whether or not there are hidden agendas in TPT or ESV, that argument doesn't work. And the "thee's and thou's" argument doesn't work either, because the criticism against TPT isn't that it's too readable, it's that it doesn't translate the original languages well enough. We have plenty of readable translations, the NLT being one, that is written for a 6th grade level (I think) that scholars recommend. Again, I love the ministry of Bethel and have greatly enjoyed the fruit from it, so I greatly appreciate them doing these videos and engaging with these topics!
There is some good research into The Passion Translation. This video didn't address any of the real concerns about the translation but just side stepped the issue. They said in this video we dont need critical spirits and people that have them do no good. But they didn't share what the criticism is about. Look up the Aramaic texts for the NT part of the translation. There is a lot more here then just preferences and peoples opinions. Would love to chat about the passion. But if not mike winger does a very long well researched look into the translation as a charismatic believer.
I’m sorry but “oh there’s a critical spirit” is not a magic wand phrase that you can just use to wave away criticism. Calling scholars who are critical of poorly done “translations” like tPT not walking in love is really distasteful.
@@kevinwhilock1457 Christians are called to be discerning. Theology is important, and TPT has the ability to lead people to a false version of God found in this false “scripture”. That’s something to judge very carefully.
Many years ago I started a Master's degree in Apologetics because I so cared that people come to know the Lord. But I found myself in classrooms where believers seem to only want to argue. It made me lose the taste for wanting to learn in that higher educational realm. Since then, I have studied on my own, not gotten the degree, and continue to love others into the Kingdom. (Please don't mis-take me thinking I am discouraging higher education. I'm not. Just don't lose your PASSION.)
I had a very similar experience and I stopped taking classes and studied on my own as well and, in hindsight, it was the right decision.....I don't want to spend to much time calculating theology of God because it creates a tradeoff from my experience/feeling of God during prayer and meditation. I was slipping in feeling the presence and I am not willing to allow that. Now I take less classes than I would have and I don't have a degree, but I am the better for it.
When people read aloud the Passion, and I am like “dude, where did you find that?” …it’s like when movies add a twist to the original book, it might be catchy and poetic but it is not the original. And I believe that the Bible is already very poetic, how much more?
Is it a critical spirit to be alarmed about Brians's vision of seeing John 22 in heaven and how Jesus would give it to him? Brian's Translation methods aside that is incredibly unsettling to me.
8:09 t’s not necessarily a question of love. How you show your live is totally subjective. 8:25 Taking things out of context of His word is definitely not loving it
Thank you!!! Brian Simmons is a Charleton of Charletons! He claims an Angel gave him secrets of Hebrew and Greek that have never before been revealed. he references "original" aramaic texts that do not even exist, claims that God showed him a hiddem book called "John 22" that he has yet to reveal to the world. Has no shame in adding full lines of thought and theology that are not within the original text. Galatians 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."
The problem is not that it is a "New Translation." The problem is that it is NOT a translation. At the very least it is a paraphrase (like the old Living Bible or the Message.) Things have been added to it that are not in the original languages, and things have been removed that are in the original languages. That is a MAJOR problem. Also- take note of who endorses it. It is not endorsed by people who know the original languages, it is endorsed by people who belong to a particular movement. They accept it and endorse it because it supports their existing theology. If you add to God's word, or take away from God's word, it ceases to truly be God's Word- even if you like it, even if it is poetic and easy to read, even if it fits with your theology, and even if Bill likes it.
It actually is a translation, it's just not a word-for-word translation. It's more of a thought-for-thought translation. I may be wrong about this, but my understanding is that when talking about Bibles, a "paraphrase" refers to a Bible that is based on another translation in the same language. I don't know about The Living Bible, but I do know that The Message and The Passion Translation were both translated from the original languages. tPt also brings in some ideas from old Aramaic translations and the Septuagint, with the idea that the ancient translators may have had awareness of nuance that has been lost in the thousands of years since then. However, when he does that, he uses footnotes to document what he is doing and the reasons for it. If you're ever reading it, I would recommend making sure that you use a version that includes the footnotes, because they provide a huge amount of insight into why it might differ from other translations in a particular area. The general statements in your post show that you don't have a detailed knowledge of the translation that you are criticizing or of the reasons why the people who like it like it. I would encourage you to educate yourself more before letting fly with this type of criticism. When the Bereans examined the scriptures, they were doing so to see if the things Paul said were true: they weren't looking for ways to prove that he was a heretic. There is a huge difference between those two approaches.
@New Eyes To See - have you ever noticed that the Bible is full of people who get new revelation from God? That is meant to be a normal part of the life of the believer, of the disciple of Jesus. Paul demonstrated this very well for us, since he only knew Jesus after Jesus had ascended into heaven. Paul also was taken up into the third heaven, so that is meant to be available to disciples of Jesus, too. I realize that this idea of new revelation might get scary when you see it being expressed in a Bible translation, because that might feel like it's getting close to being new doctrine for the Church. However, Brian Simmons knows that there are many translations out there, so it's not like the more traditional understanding of passages are going away. He also documents any potentially novel ideas in tPt through its footnotes, so the reader can easily see when he is doing something that might not be traditional. My encouragement to you would be that if you read the Passion translation, use it in addition to a translation that you trust, and allow it to give you another angle to view those verses from, rather than seeing it as replacing the more traditional interpretation. The Christian life is meant to be one of ongoing communication with God and learning from Him. That is one of the reasons Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to us, and it's a core component of the New Covenant.
passion translation made me discover God more. and it feel like im living in that era where the bible took place. im quite disappoint where as numerous of youtuber or youtube contents are actually bashing this translations. For me, humbleness is always the key in finding his kingdom.
Jesus can use even evil circumstances to bring people to loving submission to him, but that does not mean that he endorses evil circumstances. Just because someone came to Jesus through reading bad texts, doesn't mean the texts aren't bad. And yes, this translation is no translation at all, if you'd actually listen people like Mike winger talk about it, and carefully weigh the evidence, I think you will see that this is an extremely ignorant and disrespectful treatment of our sacred texts, not rooted in koine Greek or ancient Hebrew, completely divorced from the culture of the Israelite people. It's so full of fluff that was never in the original texts. Some of it is benign, but unnecessary, but some of it is really messing around with the meaning of texts.
Because it's not a translation. It's a paraphrase, at best. Translation means from one language to another with the closest proximity to the original, but in the listening language. This means scholarship, proven accountability, loads of research, and has always meant more than one person. Saying an angel downloaded understanding that no one in the translators' community finds believable is not the same thing as real work by God's Spirit to be true to what we know is the original, historic language. Jesus is faithful by God the Father to lead us to him. Be real and God will be real with you.
Dany jj being humble is good but that doesn't mean succumbing to error in teaching there are multiple things in the passion that are problematic others in these threads have pointed them out. Basically it stops being a translation when you add 50% to verses and then it becomes pushing something else.
@@tomandbevhighly questionable they actually learned anything if they need an evil, false version of the Bible that reads like a 13-year old's diary of poetry. Mmm, "godflavor" 🙄
I’m surprised that Bethel, a church that promotes the supernatural , thinks anyone needs simplified language to read the Gospel. My first Bible was a King James and at 17, could understand it well enough through the Holy Spirit’s guidance. Why do we need , in the beginning to read something like , before all things and people were created , ?
There's no problem with someone wanting to interpret but calling that a translation creates confusion. You mentioned The Message Bible, yet Eugene Peterson was scholar of Greek and Hebrew languages, while Brian Simmons is a person that claims supernatural and new revelations and seems to often "miss the mark". Though Bill and Dan give some good perspectives here I'd encourage you to do at least minimum investigation on a translation before committing to it or recommending it to someone. Mike Winger did a series of videos on it with Bible scholars whom he gathered to review different letters and give their opinion on it. ❤🙏
There is one main issue. The translator claimed that the revelation came from God, and its the most accurate source. Every scholar knows its not true what he said. Mike Winger hired some scholars to review it - video of it too. If they translate any other translation of the Word of God back into the original, its gonna be the same with very minor diffrences. They tried that the passion translation, and it wasnt even the Word of God, way way off, THAT is concerning. And i hope you see this. 🥺
I can see it. And am mind blown that Bethel fully endorses this mess. I enjoy some of their music.....yikes. We just received 6 of the Passion translations as a gift. I decided to research. So so glad I did. Not even fit to be donated.....
Is TPT marketed as humbly as Bill presents it here? No. It's touted by its author as the next best advancement in Biblical revelation, unlocking hidden secrets that have been lost to the church for years. The conversation revealed it correctly here as a commentary, but it is not presented as such. And it is a problematic commentary at that. And Bill's condescension to new believers not being able to read normal modern translations is ridiculous. Watching these two people softball questions at each other and backslap each other is kinda sad. 2000 years ago they may have have thought the Apostle Paul had a "critical spirit" for all the critical things he had to say about super apostles and false teachers.
Straw man and putting words into his mouth. So funny! People like this take their interpretation of what they hear emotionally, and claim what something is marketed as as a point of translation issues. Red herring much?
Brad Ber hi! I’m not sure if you understand what a straw man argument actually is? Or a red herring one for that matter. But you can play the double bass that’s for sure. Nice! I don’t think I’ve reduced bills position to a straw man. I’ve given my opinion on the exchange and I found it to be shallow and typical of a puff piece that avoided really hard questions. He also mischaracterised potential critics of TPT by implying that scholars are somehow bereft of love if they apply critical thinking to a translation. My opinion is that TPT is awful and cringeworthy at best, and dangerousness misleading at worst. I understand it’s difficult for Bill to entertain criticism of a translation he has so publicly endorsed. Honestly the whole series reminds me more of CEOs doing damage control on their corporate image as opposed to pastors having genuine conversations. Just my opinion mate - no straw men or red herrings here. Carry on slapping:)
Listen BS said Jesus breathed on him a gave him NEW REVELATION! Absurd! But the worst part is where he says he went to heaven and God showed him John chapter 22? What? That literal frightens me! I’m not saying BS is not a kind man, or passionate about Jesus but sound doctrine and solid translation is so important! Deception in these last days! If something seems off, it is.
Brian Simmons claims that, in 2009, Jesus Christ literally visited him in his room, breathed on him, and commissioned him to write a new translation of the Bible. "he breathed on me so that I would do the project, and I felt downloads coming, instantly. I received downloads. It was like, I got a chip put inside of me. I got a connection inside of me to hear him better, to understand the scriptures better and hopefully to translate." How is this different from: Joseph Smith Jr who founded Mormonism: "Smith said he experienced a series of visions, including one in 1820 during which he saw "two personages" (whom he eventually described as God the Father and Jesus Christ), and another in 1823 in which an angel directed him to a buried book of golden plates inscribed with a Judeo-Christian history of an ancient American civilization." Or Muhammad who founded Islam: "Muhammad's first revelation was an event described in Islamic tradition as taking place in AD 610, during which the Islamic prophet, Muhammad was visited by the angel Jibrīl, known as Gabriel in English, who revealed to him the beginnings of what would later become the Qur’an."
It's very simple. This wasn't an angel that appeared to Brian Simmons. This was the head of the church. Also he didn't write new books. His job was to create a new translation.
@@JewandGreek How do you know it was really Jesus that Brian Simmons saw in that vision? Because Simmons said so? Well then, Joseph Smith Jr and Muhammad are owed an apology from all their naysayers. Also, claims of extra-biblical special revelations that no one else has are always a red flag. Always. Worse still when the claims are made by a Bible "translator".
I’m so glad I walked away from this movement. I was reformed and went charismatic for 6 yrs and one day I decided to dig deep and do my research. Thank you Holy Spirit for opening my eyes. I was truly blind!
Out of curiosity, what led you away from "charismatic"? I'm reformed & charismatic, but I do think Bethel and "NAR" style churches are possibly idolising the supernatural and chasing after it. This leads to the nonsense such as the Trump prophecies (Kris Vallotton being involved and still being a leader is not good imo)
Yes, this whole series to me seems manipulative. It's so tiring watching so many leaders being know it all. Every leader is an apostle/prophet/teacher/pastor/evangelist. They know and see all perfectly. Bethel has walked a couple things back. It's taken years to do so and they still don't have the most simple truth down. We are flawed humans, that can be prone to error. How is everyone that points out you may be wrong a pharisees or a critical spitit. THAT IS DVISIVE. We should pray, ask questions and discern the words people are saying. Not just slander them/call them a pharisees. Even Jesus told us to do as the pharisees say, bc their words were right. Don't be like them, but trust they do know the scriptures if it's in line with sound doctrine.
I DO NOT understand y’all’s goal here. Brian Simmons has been proven to an illegitimate translator and claimed this translation came straight from Jesus. The reason people take issue with the translation is BECAUSE of love. You can’t just dismiss people changing the very word of God as being ‘critical’. You guys know very well that Brian doesn’t claim the passion to just be an enhancing paraphrase.
Did you know people visited Heaven in the Bible? It's a thing. Also, do you think John quit writing in heaven? I mean seriously, do you think we will all be playing harps on a cloud or in a 24/7 church service? Obviously God is into books, and the Bible is clear that there are books in Heaven (your names written in one.) But it's a logically fallacy even if someone is wrong about one thing to think they are wrong about another. They are unrelated. But if you don't know what the Bible says about Heaven and heaven experiences, you ought to study more before you try to rip things.
@@BradBeryeah, Paul visited heaven and said he wasn't allowed to say anything and wasn't even entirely sure of what happened anyway. Brian is lying, just like Kat Kerr.
The main criticism is EXTRA BIBLICAL REVELATION THAT IS PLACED ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE APOSTOLIC REVELATION, meaning that Brian Simmons had a "visitation" where he received "downloads" for his translation. Brian Simmons claims that Jesus will soon reveal to him ANOTHER, ADDITIONAL Chapter of the Gospel of John when he was in the "library of Heaven". This chapter 22 supposedly is sealed up for the last days teaching us to do the greater works that Jesus has spoken of ?!? Go watch his interview on Sid Roth!
A circular logic with stories and feeling to back it up? Why? And why is it so common to have this idea that a new believer either can't read or just wouldn't understand a word for word translation?
I don't think the topic was addressed at all. I feel like 99% of the time you talked about other translations and how they were met with criticism, well ok, but that doesn't make TPT a valid translation. On the TPT website there is a quote of Bill Johnson about the translation: "One of the greatest things to happen with Bible translation in my lifetime.". This is a very high feedback, so when now the translation gets so much evaluation from the scholars, who don't just know the language, but they dedicated their life's study to a specific book of the Bible and they say in one voice "I wouldn't call it a translation, it's even hard to call it a paraphrase" - I would expect a more thorough response from pastor Bill.
@@JewandGreek sorry if I misrepresented the scholars opinion, I didn't mean that. Do you perhaps remember the name of the scholar? I was pretty sure I watched all the videos and don't remember anyone saying that it could be put in the category of translations. I'll review the scholar's feedbacks and will fix my comment, it won't change the overall point of the comment, but maybe then "in one voice" would be an exaggeration. God bless!
They don’t understand the word? New believers? Sure they do. We all understood. Some times we have to read more than once and that’s ok. Watering down the word is not necessary at all.
The Message is not a translation and the author never intended for it to be used as a primary text for study. Simmons claims his book is a true translation for use as primary text in bible study. You ought to warn your followers!!
Or put it differently, if I had to translate one of your books Bill… and translate in wrong wording, other meaning or even adding new phrases… would you allow that? Was this your original intend?
Then it would be how you interpret it, and would have to do with who you were interpreting it for. I know you think it's a mic drop, but you are forgetting that translations are made to appeal to certain cultures and languages. If your church uses kjv language, then that's translated into your language. Tell me about the different translation methods and which other ones you hate, which you like, and why?
@@EAB-bz6yi hahaha what? Did you develop your opinion from some youtube videos of people who hate anything Spirit filled? I challenge you to present a TPT verse with a note that you think is heretical for this choices, or a quote in context (non straw manned plz) of Bill's. Otherwise, you just sound like another 'christian' shooting his fellow soldiers on the battlefield.
@@BradBer Go back to Hogwart school....the devil is ringing the bell. Oh! or is Bethel still closed because you can't heal people from Covid....like yall brag about! Bills own wife has reoccurring cancer....she can't even "receive a healing", as yall put it. Where is the evidence of Bethel or Bill healing anyone? Doctors reports? Yall are so guliable, just like I was when I was a baby Christian. You just believe their stories of healing's with no proof. Don't forget the fact that people exaggerate healing and flat out lie, because they don't want to be accuse of not being able to "receive from God" or they really don't have "favor from God" or maybe everyone will think they are in really bad awful sin.....so they lie and fake it! Instead, it is "Hey, look at me, I am so righteous I am healed and I don't sin anymore...so now God can heal me and use me to heal others!" "Yeppy! Now I can be like Bill or Kris V or Smith Wiggles and buy an Ashton Martin and buy whatever I want!" I was up in these kinds of meetings with the biggest names in charismania 20 years ago: Hedi Baker laid hands on me 3 times once in Toronto, Arnott's many times, Bob Jones, IHOP, etc.
TPT is called a translation (a text or word that has been changed from one language into another) while it is a paraphrase ( to express what somebody has said or written using different words, especially in order to make it easier to understand). Calling TPT a translation makes people believe the text is actually saying what TPT offers while according to linguistic standards it is not. Better yet, the TPT is even as paraphrase to be ignored while it adds to the text and cannot be considered a paraphrase.
Always appreciate honest dialogue about important issues, especially from Bill. Issues like these seem to come up from time to time. However, there actually weren’t any specific examples or scriptures given cited in the video, like comparing side by side to another translation which could have been very helpful.
Yeah, for a true critique, you will need to go elsewhere. This is not the place. Just dialogue that does not dig to get the truth. It is all about experience, feeling, new revelation. Very dangerous place for a church to be.
It's amazing that God has kept back revealing his heart until personally commissioning Brian Simmons. I mean... what pithy revivals we've had with empty hearted bibles. Finally, at long last, God has, through his mighty instrument, Dr. Simmons, given us what we've truly needed for victory. How sad and pathetic the church has been the last 2000 years.
The problem with the Passion book is it should not be called a translation, it is more like commentary. Also when the author states that Jesus spoke to him and gave him the translation and that He called him to the library of Heaven? with a promise to reveal a new chapter of John ? Chapter 23. This wreaks of a Joseph Smith book of Mormon scenario? Pastor Johnson, I would be running for the hills if I'm in your church and your calling this book Canon? This is going down a slippery slope when you change the meaning or add to God's word.
When discerning whether or not you should read the passion "translation", you should realize, it was written by one man. Only one. When the others have been pain stakingly translated by more than 50 scholars in greek, hebrew, and aramaic. Bryan Simmons claims that Jesus pulled him into heaven, and has given him direct revelation to write this "tranalation" that is a dangerous lie. He also said that Jesus told him about John chapter 22, and that one day he will write it for people to hear, but they're "not ready to hear it".... the absurdity of this is disheartening.. this implies that God's holy word is not complete... which is heretical
It's amazing how far Dominion Theologists will go, even going as far as to re-write the Bible and twist scripture a way that fits into their own theology instead of yeilding to what God is actually saying. The fact that Brian claims about having God reveal to him a new chapter in John that will be revealed when the time is right is most concerning. This has Joseph Smith vibes.
@@mountainsriversandtrees1474 i have now realized this. But it still doesn't mean it's any more accurate. There is so much added, words that aren't there, full sentences added. And even more so are the phrases that have been entirely removed
Solomon wrote a lot of the old testament. He was one person... With 1,000 wives. I think there is more to this than which translation and which denomination - spirituality isn't science and it isn't exact. Hebrew is the original language of most of the Old Testament (although there are some portions in Aramaic), and Greek is the original language of the New Testament. Everything in English is an interpretation of these.
I respect your view. I often find translations like good news are easy choices for new beleivers. The problem is when a version is used that no longer sounds like the scriptures you have learnt and it can cause confusion. Some versions sound completely alien to the scriptures. As a new Christian my church used the message and I loved to hear it so I wanted to own it but when I bought it I didn't like it's structure. It was too hard to use. So I have it away. My first ever bible was word on the street. It have me a thirst to want to read the REAL bible
I too have the message. But my go to- is NIV, ESV, NLT…. Otherwise when I just wanna read- almost like a regular book- I pick up the message. The structure is different- without all of the verses specifically labeled.
@@julesybethmedlini "The Message" is called a paraphrase and is not considered to be the Bible, capital "B", but the bible, kind of like a kids story book bible.
We are actually a very favoured generation to have the word of God in our hands personally. For the word of God to be so accessible to the common man is a great blessing no other generation has had.
And what a slap in the face it must be to God that even when we have the treasure of Scripture in our hands, it’s not good enough for these people. They need to write a “better” version for themselves.
@@faithnicole5310 Do you think the king james fell down from heaven or something? you people are insane. no translation is perfect. but the passion translation captures the heart of God so well
@@TElias5 The KJV and other qualified translations do their absolute best to stay true to the original text. The Passion Translation makes no effort to stay true to the actual Biblical scrolls, and it presents a false picture of who God is and what He promises. That is incredibly problematic for people genuinely seeking truth.
@@TElias5 Essentially speaking: Scripture does capture the heart of God perfectly, and most translations stay as true to the original text as possible. The Passion Translation makes up its own version of God and disregards original text.
The thing is, the author isn't working from the original texts as a scholar, or in a team. He paraphrases from an English language version which means his/our cultural biases come to bear on how he interprets the scriptures, and he isn't balanced by teamwork. 🔔🔔🔔 ALARM BELLS
Ah yes, I found a question on that FAQ page that directly addresses your assertion. I will quote it here for you: There is often some confusion in the Christian community when it comes to various versions of the Bible, particularly the differences between “translation” and “paraphrase.” A paraphrase version of the Bible utilizes an existing English-language translation as its base text. It paraphrases one version into more contemporary language. For instance, in 1971 the creator of The Living Bible paraphrased the existing American Standard Version of 1901 to create a new English-language Bible version. A translation, however, uses the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts as the base text for a new version of the Bible. It translates these original languages into a modern language. For example, the translators of the New International Version in 1978 worked off the original ancient-language manuscripts to produce a new English Bible by translating those ancient languages into the modern language. Similar to such functional or dynamic equivalent translations as the New International Version and the New Living Translation Bible versions, The Passion Translation is a new version of God’s Word that is considered a translation because it uses the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts to translate the essential message of the Scriptures into contemporary English.
It's not a translation or a paraphrase. Brian Simmons has no credentials to undertake such an endeavor. Plus, he didn't use a committee of scholars like every other translation and paraphrase has used. He got his inspiration and so called "secrets" of the Hebrew and Aramaic languages from an angel that called itself Passion. Where have you heard that before? Bethel needs to renounce this thing and distance themselves as far away as possible.
Surely when you read a bible claiming to be a translation it should be relatively accepted by the people who Bill says he normally trusts. What about the swell of very concerned experts. Bethel have some issues theologically I am told....this doesn't help.
The issue is it's not a “Translation.” It is a paraphrase at best, and the authors personal theology built in that is not in the text. (that needs to be disclosed) I like it but I would not preach from it. I might use it to be illustrative but not to build my theology on.
Bill Mounce says that a paraphrase is a rewording of an existing translation. He said that if you consult the original languages it's not a paraphrase but a translation.
No, I don't believe that it is the heart of the matter. There are tons of biblical scholars who love the real Jesus and have devoted their lives to the Scriptures because they are deeply in love with the God of the universe, and want nothing more than to rightly divide the word of truth. They point out very big problems with this foolish paraphrase of a text. There are no Aramaic originals, and the author claims to be pulling from them in some mystical way. He does not have a handle on hebrew or greek, but says he is the recipient of special revelation regarding those languages he does not know, including extra chapters of the closed cannon. This is outright deception, and needs to be called out for what it is.
No, it isn't the heart of the matter. Don't mess with and distort the Word of God to fit your view of God. (See PT's rendition of 1 Timothy 2:11-14, 1 Corinthians 14:33-34 to see just an example of how PT attempts to distort God's words)
@Dean Agnor aside from the whole Aramaic issue, it is startling some the words he chooses to use in the translation. Words that seem to “benefit” the jargon used inside churches like Bethel.
the passion bible is not a bible. it is not accurate to the original texts. Brian is adding all kinds of his own ideas to the bible making it his own writings, not scripture. HOW CAN YOU CHURCH LEADERS NOT SEE THE OBVIOUS? WHY DOES THIS NOT SCARE YOU? WHY ARE YOU NOT BRINGING BRIAN TO ACCOUNT OVER THIS? IT ISNT EVEN REMOTELY ACCURATE.
You don't need thees and thous to have an accurate translation. People aren't stupid either. The Passion "Translation" adds a lot to the original text, which is unnecessary and potentially dangerous. The Passion isn't even a translation, at best it's a commentary. My wife is a new Christian, and English is her second language. She's had pretty much zero issues with the NKJV, and uses the NLT if she needs clarification. The Passion "translation" is no better than a modern day "book of Mormon". Check out Mike Winger's videos on the subject.
I think the problem is Bill. The deciet and lies behind the guy who supposedly "translated" the Passion. Watch Mike Wingers videos . The guy lied on his credentials. He doesn't even know the language enough to translate . Your being so deceptive in this. Your just creating a bigger problem with these. And alot of God fearing God loving real spiritual leaders are saying the passion translation isn't a good one. Your whole theory about a Bible for new believers to read and understand well hey the new living is a fine one
How about talk about how we got this new " Bible Translation" the writer is not a scholar and " Jesus Christ literally visited him in his room, breathed on him, and commissioned him to write a new translation of the Bible. " If this is true... Then why say Mormos are wrong or Jehovah Witnesses. Don't they have the same claims... Blessings brothers and sisters! if you like this version ok but do some research its ok to question what your favorites teachers say is ok.. Learn for yourselves. Blessings!
Use words correctly. Use scripture in context. Not all scripture is "prophecy." the word "private" means something. Interpretation is something we all do when we read based on our knowledge and experience. Using scripture out of context is using God's word in vain. You prove yourself to be incapable of using scripture if u think that quote has anything to do with the many Bible versions to different languages and cultures used throughout all time.
@@indigenous31617 I think you misunderstood the point of my comment above regarding your use of scripture. But yeah, it's not a translation in the exact sense, but if you have any pro evangelism vibes and understand how missionaries translate ideas into a particular cultures language, then you can get a closer idea the function of the Passion. But most knee jerk reactions against it are done by the same people who hate anything from the Spirit filled hands and feet of the church. And if their fear is that someone will forsake other translations for this one alone, that's just illogical. And the irony of it all is, those who object the most and the rudest to TPT are the types who would benefit most from it as a devotional sort of Biblical reading with a heartbeat. But, they are too busy humbly and meekly being critics.
@@astar7772 I asked His opinion of TPT. He said "I prefer King James and New King James." "They are the most accurate." BTW, I am not a 'King James only' person. I enjoy comparing versions. Search the word with guidance from Holy Spirit.
This is really very sinister stuff. They did not address even one single critique of TPT, but just effectively told everyone there's no reason to ever question the legitimacy of a new translation which brings new ideas, and judged anyone who would do so as having a critical spirit with no genuine love for God. Wow.
Brian Simmons visitation by an angelic being that inspired the TPT is reason enough for me to avoid it. I don’t believe he’s blowing smoke. I believe he actually had an encounter with an angel… …just not an angel of light.
Both Joseph Smith and Muhammed claim they were visited by an angel. Both of them ignored Galatians 1:6-9 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel - 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: if anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
When you claim that an angel instructed you to write a new bible and that the gospel of John is incomplete you are falling in to the same trap that Joseph Smith did, you are listening to doctrine of demons.
The problem with it is the fact that it’s called “translation” but isn’t actually a translation. It’s not very accurate. It’s more of a “message bible” I think if he went that route in writing it and called it a type of “message paraphrased bible” then people wouldn’t feel as harsh about it. Also, he claims that he got the verses line for line directly from Heaven. Which is basically what a lot of folks have done, such as: joseph smith and even Muhammad while writing the Quran. I love bethel. And I think the passion is cool for a “fun read” but there are actual issues with the text.
To those confused by the comments here, be careful of those who would seek to push God off His throne and condemn others in their self-righteousness. I had initially been cautious of Bill because of the criticism he gets, but after months of watching the man, the level of spiritual maturity the Lord has given him is a beautiful thing to behold. This interview is well on point. Fall in love with your Creator, get to know Him intimately, personally, closely. Learn to know His Spirit, the way he moves and speaks. Feed on the Word and you will grow in hunger for more. The Passion is a good place to start for understanding, but like all versions it isn't perfect. Read it alongside an NRSV, academics prefer this because of its word for word accuracy. And get a free app with a Strongs Concordance, it'll make the experience so much richer and fun. Always invite the Spirit, His love, wisdom and revelation into your time with the living Word. Consciously study it together and you'll grow from strength to strength. Honour the Word always, and be very, very careful of those who do not demonstrate Godly love in their speech or character, especially those who belonging to the body of Christ would regardless seek to divide it according to their own wisdom. I'm a Pastor, but none of us have it all right, myself included! it's on you. Don't just settle for knowing of Him, get to actually know Him. Jesus loves you so much. Passionately seek Him out with all your heart and may His Spirit lead you by the deepest pools of joy and peace and into waterfalls of loving revelation.
I really like your comment but I have concerns about the author. What are your thoughts on Brian Simmons adding another chapter to the book of John? Also, I have a lot of questions about Dominion Theology, which it seams Brian is adding into some of the scriptures I have read in the Passion. I can give you examples if you like. Please don't take this as a critical spirit on my part. I just have questions that maybe you or someone else could shed some light upon. It's sad that the comments section is becoming the devil's playground. Anyway Hope we can dialogue. Be blessed my brother. You seam like a really loving pastor. Just wanted to add that, yes, none of us have it all right.
Being a believer for 40 years and having a passion to study God’s word, I have many translations and I use them all! I have a KJV with Strong’s concordance app on my phone which is so easy to access. I have The Complete Jewish Bible and I even have The Jesus Book which is the Bible translated by Whitcliffe into Hawaiian Pigeon. My first Bible was The Way that was targeted to the Jesus People of the ‘70’s. Then I was given an NASB which I destroyed from so much use but I still have it. I just kept collecting and I love them all. They all contain that which is living and active and sharper than any two edged sword! And I love the Passion Translation! It helps to read the introduction and the background of the author and its translation. Reading that is what made me want to get the translation.
@@HerveyShmervy all I know is that I LOVE LOVE LOVE Jesus! And if any translation draws me into a deeper, more intimate relationship with Him then that’s all I need. I will stay away from any translation that draws me away from Him and so far I haven’t found one.
@@barbarahall6284 a relationship with God is not an emotion. It is the acceptance of truth (similar to how Jesus wants us to worship). Based on your convictions based on what makes you "feel good". That's not a strong foundation of faith and truth. Why would you put how something makes you feel over the verocity of the real words of the word of God? Do you not see your bad logic behind that? Are you familiar with the New World Translation?
Not here to debate...but the passion is harrisy. Just look at the history of it. He littered said Jesus gave him a New translation. You can read it out of his context. Its gross.
The difficulty with the Passion Translation is Brian gets some things alright, and then completely changes other things to mean something that was never intended, and it's a lot of work to try and figure out which is which. I've come to the conclusion it's best not to read it at all, we have so many better and more consistent translations, there's no need to mess with TPT. Also, what the heck is with Brian saying there's new Aramaic documents found when there isn't? I really appreciated Mike Winger's work on this, came from a place of love for the body but also a love for the word.
I too would like to show people the passion God has for them. Man. If only there was a more succinct way to say, "for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believed in him would not perish but have everlasting life." If only.
Cmon Pastor, you need to exercise discernment. The Passion Translation is not a translation at all. Translations are supposed to take words in one language and make them clear in another. The passion translation literally adds ideas to scripture. Stay far from it.
Yeah, it's almost like the translation was written in the language of a group different than your own, a group who loves how it speaks to them in their language, and clearly fills a need left unfulfilled by other outdated translations. Hmmmmm sounds like your reasoning actually supports its usage. Don't let the word translation trip you up. There are people who will tell you that the only good translation is a literal one, and when they do, they show they don't understand principles of translation - there are many different methods.
@@BradBer I hear you Brad, but if you read the Passion translation, you ought to quickly realize that it is not a translation, but an interpretation, as it adds ideas and concepts to the Bible that are not present in the original. It’s not the Bible made into relevant and understandable.
@@jkirks8 thanks for your reply. My main concern is that people have been poisoned by people who dislike things that come from another denomination. I'll do as I have been doing and give you a couple of passages and see if you disagree. It's one thing to say it changes everything but it's another to actually look at the text and decide. 7 Those who are loved by God, let his love continually pour from you to one another, because God is love. Everyone who loves is fathered by God and experiences an intimate knowledge of him. 8 The one who doesn’t love has yet to know God, for God is love. 1 John 4:7-8 TPT 10 A thief has only one thing in mind-he wants to steal, slaughter, and destroy. But I have come to give you everything in abundance, more than you expect -life in its fullness until you overflow! 11 I am the Good Shepherd who lays down my life as a sacrifice for the sheep. John 10:10-11 TPT Do you see are here? Or do you see a thought for Thought translation? Does it sound like this is going against scriptural teachings? Or does it seem like the same people who dislike anything other than the King James are telling you that this is bad just like they did with the new international version or The Message Bible?
@@BradBer even broken clocks are right twice a day, my brother. An errorless passage doesn’t make it an errorless translation/interpretation. And it’s not KJV only people who are against the passion translation. I don’t read KJV at all except for occasional cross translation sermon prep. I have an issue with TPT because I care about the integrity of the text, and TPT as a whole is not a translation but an interpretation that reads into scripture and adds to it. Please Send me a video on why TPT is trustworthy and I’ll watch it, if you agree to watch Mike Wingers in depth video on TPT. He is also not a KJV only guy, nor is he dogmatic or legalistic. He brings a balanced view, and it’s worth listening to.
Can you please differentiate between people operating from a critical spirit and people who are genuinely trying to guard against deception? Or people who just have a passion for seeing God's word handled correctly, like Paul exhorted Timothy to do? There is so much bad teaching or slightly skewed theology out there. The more I know the bible, the more I'm recognising it - like people who preach a message without even bothering to check if their premise is scripturally accurate. I would hate to see anyone be discouraged from wise scepticism or testing what they hear just because they don't want to be critical. (I'm actually on the same page as Bill in that the Passion is not my go-to translation, but I keep it in my toolbox when I want to dig deeper and get other perspectives on a passage. That being said, I have had a few qualms about his take on some passages, so I would actually dissuade people from using TPT as their primary bible.)
This passion bible whatever the intent dumbs down believers to look at the Christian walk as boiled down to good 'feelings' about God. Just call it the woke bible because it's the same spirit. If you correctly discern how dangerous it is because it is changing God's Word, you are labeled as having a critical spirit. It's no different than what the liberal spirit of the age does to people with cancel culture, take away their voice to question things that are wrong. Down the road this moves the church to accept the world.
Why should the Bible have an agenda? Just stick to the BEST ACTUAL translation. Why do you think the original scribes had to tear up what they wrote if they had a single mistake. Critical vs discerning. There is a difference!
I think most scholars would say if you’re studying the Bible, look at multiple translations. Some would say a minimum of 5 translations. I like the idea of treating some translations as a commentary. I think that’s a really good idea. I would rather people read the Passion Translation than not read any Bible at all, which I think is a bigger problem. The ESV and NKJV are my base translations but I love doing comparisons with other translations. I’ll be having a look at that New Century Version now! I always like to use a new translation every time I read through the Bible from cover to cover, it spreads new light on it. I quite like the ‘Word of Promise’ dramatised digital audio NKJV version too to keep things fresh.
I don't think the problem is a lack of good translations out there, if anyone wants to read the Bible. False claims alongside lack of true scholarship, while making tons of money from this is a much bigger issue.
The internet provides every translation. TPT is a very bad excuse for a translation by a guy who contradicts himself frequently, makes bizarre claims that contradict scripture, and so on.
When I got saved I barley ever read any books so my reading comprehension was bad. When I read the ESV, NASB, NKJV etc I would get discouraged because I felt like I couldn’t understand the Bible. I had to read the message or NIV and even that was hard for me to understand. It took me years to understand other translations.
@@BruhSick I think it is important to try to stick to the Word of God rather than reading perversions of it. The assumption is that everyone will read the passion translation and then when they grow will take up ESV or some other version. It's however not true. Majority will stick to the passion all their lives and never progress. Passion has some serious errors which has the capacity to lead people away from the faith. My question is why read such a translation? It's important not to encourage people to read the passion. A few years down the line we will never know whether these people will be saved in the first place. People need to come to the Church to hear the words of Jesus Christ and not the words of Brian Simmons. Brian Simmons words does not get people saved. Jesus Christ's words does.
@@BruhSick If NIV and message suits you, it's good. These are good paraphrases to start with. Even NLT is good point to start with. However The passion adds on to the Scriptures to a point where The Word of God is unrecognisable. That's my concern regarding that.
A neighbor I had recently had never been churched. She was 60 at the time. She could barely read. The new century version is what I bought for her. It was still hard but way easier than the other ones I’d been reading to her. She had no foundation for anything in the Bible. She needed something in plain English. ESV seems plain English to those of us who’ve been in the church for a while but not for the unchurched.
@@suzannemartin6817 Thanks for sharing that. I was from a completely non Christian culture and English is not my first language. I have seen people use, message and amplified in those cases, which I think is justified. However it is important to note that passion is one step lesser to that. It is blatantly wrong in many places twisting the Word of God
7:50 feels like a straw man argument. Many Bible scholars who care about biblical integrity and being true to the original Greek and Hebrew texts also love Jesus and love His word.
Because we question means we don’t love God and his truth? Bill, is that what you just said to defend your Passion translation? So we can’t think critically?
@@BradBerexcept it's not a strawman, it's actually a common fallacy of FALSE TEACHERS trying to defend their most favorite-est blasphemy by saying "THE BIBLE SAYS YOU CAN'T JUDGE ME!" and other nonsense like this tripe defending the demonic Passion misTranslation 😂
AS A BIBLE TRANSLATOR MYSELF to minoriry groups, I just wish The Passion project would turn to fund Bible translation to people groups who actually need their very first translation as they never had a single one. We bible translators struggle so much to raise funds, train locals, form a commity and diligently work 10-20 years in the field translating the New Testament to start with...years and years of a lot of hard work just because we believe everyone should have access to the Bible in the language they understand. Meanwhile, English speakers delight and are indulged in inumerous versions, translations, paraphrases, comentaries, Bible for kids, teens, woman, man, for pastors, for mums, artists, etc, etc,etc..and all of those still not enough to satisfy their hearts..Iam not against all of this variety by any means, i benefit from them too, I just feel like it is a bit unfair and i dare to say a bit selfish if we are aware of the massive need of translations in other languages .We would still know Jesus, his love and all of God's passion for his people with 1 single translation...it did the job for all the christians that came before us and it does for millions that only have 1 version of the Bible in their language today. Who would like to join our efford to make the Bible available to all languages that still need a translation? We can make a huge difference in the lives of millions of christians, help their spiritual grouth and consequently reaching out those who ultimately dont't know who is author of the Word of God. I tell you, that is so worth it! When you see the tears coming down from someone who read the Bible in their language and understood what it meant for the first time...you think, yes, that is an effort worthwhile!
If you've never disagreed with a translation then you haven't learned about any translations and the process of it. Name any translation and there are "wrong" things depending on perspective and translation methods. This is why none is perfect (it is a translation after all-even kjv, nasb, NIV, esv etc) and this is why we use many translations and many tools to make the most robust Bible study.
@@BradBer these guys say they disagree with how Simmons translates certain portions of scripture. I contend that they disagree because Simmons is wrong. They are more careful in their complaints about this "translation" than they are about their complaints about legitimate concerns. As for me disagreeing with respected translations, there are few things that I don't like about them. I love the translations that are closer to word-for-word rather than thought-for-thought since they are closer to the original languages.
@@isaacparks1105 Generalizations from haters dont help, ya know? Like, if you dig recent biblical scholarship, you'll know why he made these choices, right? 16 For here is the way God loved the world-he gave his only, unique Son as a gift. So now everyone who believes in him will never perish but experience everlasting life. John 3:16 TPT I don't agree with all his notes and reasons, like his idea of the mark IN Rev meaning humanity when I prefer gematria, but we can understand that perspective and its prevalent. I just see the main critics being people who already have a hate campaign against the nar-boogeyman and love to place themselves as judge without trying to understand. Word for word is great, providing we understand the cultural references and meanings of the original words, right? That's why any serious studiers use many translations and helps, and though I prefer word to word too, in the parables, thought for thought is amazing. Because we aren't in 1st venture culture, ya know?
Thank you, Bethel, for doing this. I feel this is an appropriate and necessary thing to do. To be honest, I have been inspired and blessed by your ministry but have had concerns as well. It’s not an attack, I’m just being upfront. Something I would like to see in the future is a dialogue between you and someone that doesn’t agree with you. It would be great to see you hash it out together. It seems many are scared to do this or don’t feel it is necessary. I disagree. Working through Christian doctrine is extremely relevant considering it affects how we live, love, and treat others. Also, it safeguards us from walking in error. I’ve heard some say, “why do we worry so much about what other ministries are doing and why are we so critical?” My concern is people “in the name of God” kill, steal, or deceive others into not having a relationship with Jesus Christ. What is the underlying issue? An incorrect understanding of God and His word. I want other Christians to be concerned with whether or not I am teaching and preaching things that are true or false. Of course I’d prefer them to not be mean-spirited about it, but either way-if I have to humble myself and change something because they have brought it to my attention and are right, I pray I will do so.
Watch the full episode here: ruclips.net/video/XZ2xjnXYfm8/видео.html
To see the entire series go to: ruclips.net/p/PLUaRlPOu98p0clsG0U0jGoU91tl5q3-sK
The fact that one man wrote this all by himself based on a vision where Jesus came to him and told him what to write reminds me of Joseph Smith and the Mormon Bible.
The passion translation is not a one man project, nor is it a new gospel. Brain is the lead translator, he is not the only one involved. TPT goes through MANY other respected pastors and scholars review and editing before it is set to print. ALSO, He revises and makes corrections as needed up each reprinting. One other thing...The footnotes are very significant and vital part when reading TPT.
Brian makes sure to explain why he uses the wording he does, he will site the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic if there is a difference. He also speaks about the importance of all translations, he's not trying to replace or discount the previous versions. He's offering a fresh view that can be added to your personal study along with the others.
@@The_SeoulJourneryou've been misled. Brian Simmons has lied about his credentials. He has easily manipulated many in this group, by using your group jargon.
@seaweed349 @the_seouljourner
How about both of you go sit with the lord and ask him for the answers INSTEAD of leaning on your own wisdom and understanding .. sound familiar? 😂
@@The_SeoulJourner "The passion translation is not a one man project..." No, it IS a one man project!!! If thee are other pastors involved, it is only AFTER Brain writes it!
Except the Book of Mormon is a totally made up thing that has nothing to do with the Bible
More like "i want to show you the passion God has for you... by completely rewriting and changing the meaning of key verses in the bible by adding thousands of words that God did not say and calling it a bible translation." That would be a more accurate description of the Passion Translation.
😂💀
The Passion Translation is Dominion Theology buzzwords added strategically into Scripture. It caters to those that are into Dominionism/7 Mountains Mandate, which is contrary to what God really says in His Word. Brian Simmons found a way to make good money off of this idea. It's a clever idea, but it will only last a lifetime and not for eternity.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
It sounds like what you are trying to do is equate any criticism with a lack of love. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. It’s love for God, his word, and the people who read it that drives scholars and concerned Christians to criticize poor translations of the Bible.
Amen Andrew.
It's not people's love that criticizes TPT. For most, its their egos. Bill's not equating "ANY" criticism with a lack of love, that's a false statement. I speak life to your wounded spirit, be healed!
@@djunk747 you don’t have authority to speak anything into anyone’s life. You’re not God, who is the only one who can speak anything into existence. That’s what all other translations of the Bible say, maybe the Passion says something different? Case in point.
Amen Andrew.
Excellent comment Andrew... yes!
The problem is that the Passion Translation shouldn't be called a "translation" but a commentary. When they use the word "translation" to make more money and have more people use it, this is what can lead people astray simply because its not a translation
The sketchy part is the “commentary” is woven into the very scripture itself and not fully separated from the text. That and it’s the work of one man Brian Simmons with extraordinary claims about hidden divine knowledge never before revealed to humanity.
@@nicklandry8019 I think with a commentary you have that liberty. The problem is that it’s not labeled as a commentary but I agree with your opinion
@@denis-kononov I think that if you are going to make a commentary you also have to have some kind of qualifications?
It appears to be just a passionate twisting of the Bible.
@@johnohod I wasn’t aware of any qualifications to write a commentary, but I might be wrong
@Full Deck are you a kjv onlyist?
It is a terrible “translation” I would recommend checking out Mike Wingers exhaustive research. He hired biblical scholars to examine the work. They concluded it’s not biblical.
Im not saying I like the translation, know nothing about it.. but the Pharisees I’m sure did “exhaustive” research on Jesus messages. They were the most knowledgeable biblical scholars. They concluded it wasn’t biblical.
The Bible says I need no teacher, only the anointing of the Holy Spirit. I can read a bad translation and still get something out of it because of the direction of the Holy Spirit. His sheep will hear his voice, and John 7 says anyone who wills to do his will he will know the whether doctrine is from men or from God.
Don’t be so knowledgeable and dependent on mere men’s research in order to walk in confidence in the spirit. You need no teacher. The lord is able to make you stand
@@Mr39Brown that’s not correct. The Pharisees were false teachers with many unbiblical views outside of the teaching of the Law and Prophets.
That wasn’t quite the scholars’ conclusion, with most saying it was a paraphrase. Mike may have concluded that and he may well be correct (which isn’t my point here), but most of the scholars he had on didn’t conclude that it’s not biblical
The passion bible (as stated in the preface in my copy) is based on the Aramaic texts as well as the greek texts. The author does not hide this and in-fact adds footnote explanations of when and why it makes sense, to him, to use one text over the other.
The translator is a very thoughtful and passionate (not pun intended) believer from what i have seen and heard. It is incorrect to call the passion a commentary. But it is also disingenuous to say it is “not biblical” without the explanation of the texts he uses.
I want to encourage all to research the Aramaic texts and their importance. I am not suggesting some long hidden truth conspiracy.
I also want to encourage the research of the recognized greek texts that are used in modern “mainstream” translations (yes i am also including KJV 1611, it uses more than one text group or text family to produce its committee’s word for word type translation).
@@Mr39Brown Actually the Pharisees did not do exhaustive research in the scripture to verify Jesus’s words. They were using, not the word of God, but their own traditions added to the Scripture to justify their behavior. People have been saying “God said to me” since the beginning, that’s why we need a scripture to weed out truth from lies.
“This critical spirit that’s been around is not helpful”:
God’s word calls his people to be critical, to have discernment, to “rightly handle the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15), and to “speak the truth in love” (Eph. 4:15) to those in the church that need to be told “hey I don’t think this is right”; because one of the things that the word is profitable for is “reproof and correction” (2 Tim. 3:16).
Being critical is not equivalent to being hateful or unloving. Paul even criticized the Hebrews by calling them immature and that they needed to get back to the basics: “For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.” Heb. 5:12-14
Yes!
Well put! Thanks for sharing this.
Today’s most prolific hypocrites love to criticize critical people and judge judgmental people. There’s nothing inherently wrong with criticism and judgment, done rightly. Jesus and the apostles demonstrated this. But blind hypocrisy in the name of love is self-deceiving.
That's not what they meant by "critical" spirit. There's the good kind and the bad kind. If you learn Hebrew you will understand that context is everything! In this case Bill talks about "critical" as in overly-critical and looking to find fault due to an agenda, not a rational introspective verification. Bethel is very much about rational introspection as I have seen both from their approach and teachings as a whole. In this case, you guys just disagree. I would put more trust in Bill's ability to discern good from evil vs. all the keyboard warriors here...and so would millions of other Christians.
@@djunk747 I hold nothing against Bill Johnson personally or spiritually, but if he had said, as you did, that people were being "overly-critical and looking to find fault due to an agenda," then that would have been a much clearer statement. Simply referring to a "critical spirit" comes across as self-refuting: If I accuse somebody of having a "critical spirit" then am I not also being critical of them, and thus be operating in a "critical spirit" myself? That's how it comes across. And if I accuse somebody of being "judgmental" then am I not being judgmental of them? That is the hypocrisy to which I was referring (not of Bill himself, but of his poor choice of words here). If you know Hebrew, then you know that we must be precise in our words, and avoid self-refuting statements like "He's so judgmental" or "They have a critical spirit." Such statements are intrinsically judgmental and critical, an thus unavoidably hypocritical. Inserting the word "overly" is an acceptable way to correct that, as you rightly did. Thanks for understanding!
Being critical doesn’t mean you have godly discernment
There’s good reason to be weary of single-person “translations”.
Amen.
Weary and Wary.
@@robcallicotte5786 oh yes I meant to say “wary”, good catch.
@@jokebookrally -- same. :)
@New Eyes To See Interesting. Had not seen that. Thanks.
It sucks that any time anyone has any sort of rebuttal or concern, or point out straight up fallacy, its meet with "you just have a critical spirit." That makes no room for conversation, growth or sharpening. Its so intellectually dishonest to use that as an out on every single topic
I didn’t hear that in this conversation at all. What they did say is some highly intellectual Christians who enjoy the difficult texts are overly critical of easier to read versions that actually do help many new Christians, or even older Christians who may not fall into the realm of ‘intellect’. Let others enjoy texts even if you don’t. That’s what I heard here.
@@lorim2000 It is dishonest to say that people are in need of another translation because NASB or ESV is difficult to read. Agreed that NASB can be a little challenging but a 12 year old can read the ESV. If you want a paraphrase then you have the NLT, Message and Amplified given to the kids. It is intellectually dishonest to say that there is no other translation that is suitable for the kids. Why did he not mention the message or amplified?
It is intellectually dishonest to say that the passion is a translation. I do not know hebrew and Greek but there are very clear places where the readers are equated to Christ and phrases are included whose meaning is not present in any translation which includes the message and amplified. This means that Brian Simmons is adding to the Bible and Bill Johnson is endorsing it.
@@lorim2000 You really should read up on the The Passion Translation and the various alarms raised about it from actual Biblical scholars. The TPT is not your run-of-the-mill easy to read translation like the NIV or GNB. It is rewriting of the text by someone who claims to have gotten special revelation from God that has enabled him to 'translate' the Bible despite having no training or scholarly credentials. It is also his own solo project and so he has no accountability or scholarly community to provide a guard and accountability. He claims to have translated his version from the original aramaic. There is no such thing. The New Testament was written in Greek.
@@lorim2000 4;00-5:00 minute mark it is very clear.
Couldn’t agree more. I love my brothers and sisters but this irks me. There is a straight up attack on the gift of discernment today. Period.
Perhaps the problem is not that scholars are not in love with Jesus or have relationship with Him, but that we do not have fear of God and a reverence for his Word.
Straw man much?
@@KristiLEvans1 Maybe I misunderstood, with all the haters on the comments. It seemed like you were implying that Bill Johnson was saying that scholars aren't in love with Jesus or have relationship with him. I assumed you were commenting that a fear of God or reverence for His word was your basis for rejecting the TPT. If I misunderstood, forgive me. Seeing the people in the chats who don't understand translations made me assume that's what you were saying.
@@KristiLEvans1 perhaps you inferred that, but it's not what was said. And you don't need to go far into the comments to see the lack of love expressed, which if any lack was addressed, is what was referred to. People apparently don't like to actually listen to people's explanations (or read TPT notes) and lack any grace and scholarly respect among differences in interpretation. If someone is bent out of shape because of the word 'translation' then they are stuck on the difference from their favorite ones and they aren't interested in the various methods of interpretation. And if any of them just visited the passion website they could read the page on the translation method which would calm any fears. Plus, as I've done many times in this chat, I'd post passages from the TPT in threads by haters and ask what they dislike - and they don't respond.
If you or any have developed an opinion on TPT without reading it and the notes and knowing who it was translated for, then your criticisms are mere sour grapes and based on fear of what you're not used to. And idealogues like winger and others who dislike anything not of their tradition don't help. Though their fear based confusion has led to these videos, which I dig, so some good came from their denominational ignorant division causing terdiness.
I understand “liking” a translation, but with it being the actual Word of God, it still demands discerning research and careful consideration. Whether you like it or not, the actual work done to arrive at translation must be weighted more than your preference. Please reconsider using TPT as it a faulty “Bible.” Check out Mike Winger’s study of it for more info.
The criticism isn’t that it reads better than old English translations. The criticism is it it changes the word of God.
‘Wow, i have never seen that!’
Maybe because the original text is not saying that!
Ikr. How can people be so naive
Gavin thinks there is only one interpretation or insight to be gained from any single passage in scripture. And it's his interpretation. So of course he would write posts like this. I bet Holy Spirit is so bored with Him when he reads scripture.
@@HerveyShmervy Hi HerveyShmervy
@@getgnomed6179 I am convinced we are the same person now
That sounds very reasonable, but you’re not answering the complaints. The complaints are The passion “translation“ is adding to the word of God.. paragraphs even entire chapter in John NOT The original text are being added to the passion “translation“. This is a very serious concern to anyone who loves the Bible!
That and the whole "secret Aramaic manuscripts" thing is idiotic scholarship (with a hint of blasphemy)
Take it one step further. TPT isn’t just adding to Scripture, it’s completely changing scriptures. Look up Acts 3:21 is ESV, NKJV, NASB, even NIV and see what it says. Then look it up in TPT. It’s completely different. It’s extremely concerning.
@@Sojourningmomma - what do you think is a critical difference in Acts 3:21, and what versions are you comparing it to? I didn't see anything far off the mark in the translation of that verse.
@@HerveyShmervy - would you care to elaborate regarding what is idiotic about it or how it verges on blasphemy?
@@dagman85 Brian Simmons claims that Jesus has given him "the secrets of aramaic manuscripts". Which there are 2 major problems with this as 1. There is no more revelation of Jesus after John's apocalyptic vision of revelation and 2. There simply are no aramaic manuscripts of the New Testament, all of it was written in Greek
At least he acknowledges that it's not a translation but a commentary. . . . If the author would acknowledge that, I would have less problems with it. . . My biggest problem is when they recommend it for new believers who don't know the Scriptures. . . . NKJV is actually very easy to read for people who don't like thee's or thou's.
You'd get the impression that this was about the Passion Translation being easier to read and understand. The real issue is the additions and alterations to fit an agenda, combined with dodgy 'research' and a claim to have secret translation information from Jesus.
Glad to see that Mike Winger has more subscribers than one of the most popular charismatic megachurches in America.
Please watch Mike Wingers videos on The Passion Translation - ALL scholars he has interviewed and who have done a deep dive into specific books of TPT say do not read this! It’s dangerous dangerous dangerous.
Love what Bethel is doing, but I feel like this conversation was only a criticism of the critics of the translation! Not of the criticisms itself. Would love to hear a more thoughtful conversation of that, if this is something Bethel actually wants to engage in. If we follow the logic presented here, then no correction can ever be done, which we know that can't be true.
Also, a good translation would be to convey the author's intent, not the translators intent. So whether or not there are hidden agendas in TPT or ESV, that argument doesn't work.
And the "thee's and thou's" argument doesn't work either, because the criticism against TPT isn't that it's too readable, it's that it doesn't translate the original languages well enough. We have plenty of readable translations, the NLT being one, that is written for a 6th grade level (I think) that scholars recommend.
Again, I love the ministry of Bethel and have greatly enjoyed the fruit from it, so I greatly appreciate them doing these videos and engaging with these topics!
Mike Winger has a series on TPT
TPT and Bethel are likely business partners. lol
Bethel is evil. This is not a matter of opinion 😢
There is some good research into The Passion Translation. This video didn't address any of the real concerns about the translation but just side stepped the issue. They said in this video we dont need critical spirits and people that have them do no good. But they didn't share what the criticism is about. Look up the Aramaic texts for the NT part of the translation. There is a lot more here then just preferences and peoples opinions. Would love to chat about the passion. But if not mike winger does a very long well researched look into the translation as a charismatic believer.
I’m sorry but “oh there’s a critical spirit” is not a magic wand phrase that you can just use to wave away criticism. Calling scholars who are critical of poorly done “translations” like tPT not walking in love is really distasteful.
But….but…but Simmons had an angel appear to him telling him to do the translation. Surely that must be legit?
@@pabloberea7295no doubt the use of the phrase "downloads" being common among people who claim to be visited by space aliens means nothing! 😅
“Critical spirit,” no. Examining spirit, yes.
It's not a translation but a paraphrase. End of story. Good for morning devotions or a quiet time but never try to get your theology from a paraphrase
@@gregbeck7276 barely even a paraphrase since it adds NAR theology into scripture. More of an interpretation than paraphrase I think
greg beck It's not even a paraphrase.
Both in fact, Christians can be very judgemental..
@@kevinwhilock1457 Christians are called to be discerning. Theology is important, and TPT has the ability to lead people to a false version of God found in this false “scripture”. That’s something to judge very carefully.
Many years ago I started a Master's degree in Apologetics because I so cared that people come to know the Lord. But I found myself in classrooms where believers seem to only want to argue. It made me lose the taste for wanting to learn in that higher educational realm. Since then, I have studied on my own, not gotten the degree, and continue to love others into the Kingdom. (Please don't mis-take me thinking I am discouraging higher education. I'm not. Just don't lose your PASSION.)
Bless you Laura. I pray that the Father take you deeper into His wisdom and that He continue to spur on your passion for unity.
@@Bethel_Online thank you dear one(s).
Your loss!
I had a very similar experience and I stopped taking classes and studied on my own as well and, in hindsight, it was the right decision.....I don't want to spend to much time calculating theology of God because it creates a tradeoff from my experience/feeling of God during prayer and meditation. I was slipping in feeling the presence and I am not willing to allow that. Now I take less classes than I would have and I don't have a degree, but I am the better for it.
@@KristiLEvans1 AMEN!!
When people read aloud the Passion, and I am like “dude, where did you find that?” …it’s like when movies add a twist to the original book, it might be catchy and poetic but it is not the original. And I believe that the Bible is already very poetic, how much more?
Is it a critical spirit to be alarmed about Brians's vision of seeing John 22 in heaven and how Jesus would give it to him? Brian's Translation methods aside that is incredibly unsettling to me.
8:09 t’s not necessarily a question of love. How you show your live is totally subjective.
8:25
Taking things out of context of His word is definitely not loving it
I second this.
Thank you!!! Brian Simmons is a Charleton of Charletons! He claims an Angel gave him secrets of Hebrew and Greek that have never before been revealed. he references "original" aramaic texts that do not even exist, claims that God showed him a hiddem book called "John 22" that he has yet to reveal to the world. Has no shame in adding full lines of thought and theology that are not within the original text.
Galatians 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."
The passion translation was written by non scholars who do not have a clear understanding of the ancient text
The problem is not that it is a "New Translation." The problem is that it is NOT a translation. At the very least it is a paraphrase (like the old Living Bible or the Message.) Things have been added to it that are not in the original languages, and things have been removed that are in the original languages. That is a MAJOR problem. Also- take note of who endorses it. It is not endorsed by people who know the original languages, it is endorsed by people who belong to a particular movement. They accept it and endorse it because it supports their existing theology. If you add to God's word, or take away from God's word, it ceases to truly be God's Word- even if you like it, even if it is poetic and easy to read, even if it fits with your theology, and even if Bill likes it.
It actually is a translation, it's just not a word-for-word translation. It's more of a thought-for-thought translation. I may be wrong about this, but my understanding is that when talking about Bibles, a "paraphrase" refers to a Bible that is based on another translation in the same language. I don't know about The Living Bible, but I do know that The Message and The Passion Translation were both translated from the original languages. tPt also brings in some ideas from old Aramaic translations and the Septuagint, with the idea that the ancient translators may have had awareness of nuance that has been lost in the thousands of years since then. However, when he does that, he uses footnotes to document what he is doing and the reasons for it. If you're ever reading it, I would recommend making sure that you use a version that includes the footnotes, because they provide a huge amount of insight into why it might differ from other translations in a particular area. The general statements in your post show that you don't have a detailed knowledge of the translation that you are criticizing or of the reasons why the people who like it like it. I would encourage you to educate yourself more before letting fly with this type of criticism. When the Bereans examined the scriptures, they were doing so to see if the things Paul said were true: they weren't looking for ways to prove that he was a heretic. There is a huge difference between those two approaches.
It’s a translation a more spirit translation compared to a scholar translation
@New Eyes To See - have you ever noticed that the Bible is full of people who get new revelation from God? That is meant to be a normal part of the life of the believer, of the disciple of Jesus. Paul demonstrated this very well for us, since he only knew Jesus after Jesus had ascended into heaven. Paul also was taken up into the third heaven, so that is meant to be available to disciples of Jesus, too.
I realize that this idea of new revelation might get scary when you see it being expressed in a Bible translation, because that might feel like it's getting close to being new doctrine for the Church. However, Brian Simmons knows that there are many translations out there, so it's not like the more traditional understanding of passages are going away. He also documents any potentially novel ideas in tPt through its footnotes, so the reader can easily see when he is doing something that might not be traditional. My encouragement to you would be that if you read the Passion translation, use it in addition to a translation that you trust, and allow it to give you another angle to view those verses from, rather than seeing it as replacing the more traditional interpretation.
The Christian life is meant to be one of ongoing communication with God and learning from Him. That is one of the reasons Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to us, and it's a core component of the New Covenant.
Good points, Mike.
@@dagman85 That definition is a paraphrase.
passion translation made me discover God more. and it feel like im living in that era where the bible took place. im quite disappoint where as numerous of youtuber or youtube contents are actually bashing this translations. For me, humbleness is always the key in finding his kingdom.
Amen! I know people who have come to Jesus because of it
Jesus can use even evil circumstances to bring people to loving submission to him, but that does not mean that he endorses evil circumstances.
Just because someone came to Jesus through reading bad texts, doesn't mean the texts aren't bad.
And yes, this translation is no translation at all, if you'd actually listen people like Mike winger talk about it, and carefully weigh the evidence, I think you will see that this is an extremely ignorant and disrespectful treatment of our sacred texts, not rooted in koine Greek or ancient Hebrew, completely divorced from the culture of the Israelite people. It's so full of fluff that was never in the original texts. Some of it is benign, but unnecessary, but some of it is really messing around with the meaning of texts.
Because it's not a translation. It's a paraphrase, at best. Translation means from one language to another with the closest proximity to the original, but in the listening language. This means scholarship, proven accountability, loads of research, and has always meant more than one person. Saying an angel downloaded understanding that no one in the translators' community finds believable is not the same thing as real work by God's Spirit to be true to what we know is the original, historic language. Jesus is faithful by God the Father to lead us to him. Be real and God will be real with you.
Dany jj being humble is good but that doesn't mean succumbing to error in teaching there are multiple things in the passion that are problematic others in these threads have pointed them out. Basically it stops being a translation when you add 50% to verses and then it becomes pushing something else.
@@tomandbevhighly questionable they actually learned anything if they need an evil, false version of the Bible that reads like a 13-year old's diary of poetry. Mmm, "godflavor" 🙄
We shouldn't confuse discernment with criticism. Discernment will reveal that the Passion Translation is dangerous and deceptive.
I’m surprised that Bethel, a church that promotes the supernatural , thinks anyone needs simplified language to read the Gospel. My first Bible was a King James and at 17, could understand it well enough through the Holy Spirit’s guidance. Why do we need , in the beginning to read something like , before all things and people were created , ?
@@psalmreader8049Right. The Bible is so simple. And we have plenty of translations that are "simple" and understandable.
There's no problem with someone wanting to interpret but calling that a translation creates confusion. You mentioned The Message Bible, yet Eugene Peterson was scholar of Greek and Hebrew languages, while Brian Simmons is a person that claims supernatural and new revelations and seems to often "miss the mark".
Though Bill and Dan give some good perspectives here I'd encourage you to do at least minimum investigation on a translation before committing to it or recommending it to someone. Mike Winger did a series of videos on it with Bible scholars whom he gathered to review different letters and give their opinion on it. ❤🙏
There is one main issue. The translator claimed that the revelation came from God, and its the most accurate source. Every scholar knows its not true what he said.
Mike Winger hired some scholars to review it - video of it too. If they translate any other translation of the Word of God back into the original, its gonna be the same with very minor diffrences. They tried that the passion translation, and it wasnt even the Word of God, way way off, THAT is concerning. And i hope you see this. 🥺
I can see it. And am mind blown that Bethel fully endorses this mess. I enjoy some of their music.....yikes. We just received 6 of the Passion translations as a gift. I decided to research. So so glad I did. Not even fit to be donated.....
Is TPT marketed as humbly as Bill presents it here? No. It's touted by its author as the next best advancement in Biblical revelation, unlocking hidden secrets that have been lost to the church for years. The conversation revealed it correctly here as a commentary, but it is not presented as such. And it is a problematic commentary at that. And Bill's condescension to new believers not being able to read normal modern translations is ridiculous. Watching these two people softball questions at each other and backslap each other is kinda sad. 2000 years ago they may have have thought the Apostle Paul had a "critical spirit" for all the critical things he had to say about super apostles and false teachers.
well said.....
Straw man and putting words into his mouth. So funny! People like this take their interpretation of what they hear emotionally, and claim what something is marketed as as a point of translation issues. Red herring much?
Brad Ber hi! I’m not sure if you understand what a straw man argument actually is? Or a red herring one for that matter. But you can play the double bass that’s for sure. Nice! I don’t think I’ve reduced bills position to a straw man. I’ve given my opinion on the exchange and I found it to be shallow and typical of a puff piece that avoided really hard questions. He also mischaracterised potential critics of TPT by implying that scholars are somehow bereft of love if they apply critical thinking to a translation. My opinion is that TPT is awful and cringeworthy at best, and dangerousness misleading at worst. I understand it’s difficult for Bill to entertain criticism of a translation he has so publicly endorsed. Honestly the whole series reminds me more of CEOs doing damage control on their corporate image as opposed to pastors having genuine conversations. Just my opinion mate - no straw men or red herrings here. Carry on slapping:)
Isn't it the pastor's duty to take the Word of God, and preach it so that the congregants understand it? Isn't that what discipleship is all about?
Listen BS said Jesus breathed on him a gave him NEW REVELATION! Absurd! But the worst part is where he says he went to heaven and God showed him John chapter 22? What? That literal frightens me! I’m not saying BS is not a kind man, or passionate about Jesus but sound doctrine and solid translation is so important! Deception in these last days! If something seems off, it is.
Brian Simmons claims that, in 2009, Jesus Christ literally visited him in his room, breathed on him, and commissioned him to write a new translation of the Bible.
"he breathed on me so that I would do the project, and I felt downloads coming, instantly. I received downloads. It was like, I got a chip put inside of me. I got a connection inside of me to hear him better, to understand the scriptures better and hopefully to translate."
How is this different from:
Joseph Smith Jr who founded Mormonism:
"Smith said he experienced a series of visions, including one in 1820 during which he saw "two personages" (whom he eventually described as God the Father and Jesus Christ), and another in 1823 in which an angel directed him to a buried book of golden plates inscribed with a Judeo-Christian history of an ancient American civilization."
Or Muhammad who founded Islam:
"Muhammad's first revelation was an event described in Islamic tradition as taking place in AD 610, during which the Islamic prophet, Muhammad was visited by the angel Jibrīl, known as Gabriel in English, who revealed to him the beginnings of what would later become the Qur’an."
Thank you for your response! If you would like to address this more personally, please email info@bethel.com to connect with someone at Bethel.
@@Bethel_Online again, why do you not answer here??
It's very simple. This wasn't an angel that appeared to Brian Simmons. This was the head of the church. Also he didn't write new books. His job was to create a new translation.
@@JewandGreek How do you know it was really Jesus that Brian Simmons saw in that vision? Because Simmons said so? Well then, Joseph Smith Jr and Muhammad are owed an apology from all their naysayers. Also, claims of extra-biblical special revelations that no one else has are always a red flag. Always. Worse still when the claims are made by a Bible "translator".
@@anoushkaarmstrong7673 They are deflecting.....
I’m so glad I walked away from this movement. I was reformed and went charismatic for 6 yrs and one day I decided to dig deep and do my research. Thank you Holy Spirit for opening my eyes. I was truly blind!
Haha. Went charismatic. This tells us all we need to know about how you process doctrine and understand the gift of the Spirit.
Out of curiosity, what led you away from "charismatic"? I'm reformed & charismatic, but I do think Bethel and "NAR" style churches are possibly idolising the supernatural and chasing after it. This leads to the nonsense such as the Trump prophecies (Kris Vallotton being involved and still being a leader is not good imo)
Excellent job at avoiding the actual issues of concern...A+ for distraction, D- for honest evaluation.
Yes, this whole series to me seems manipulative. It's so tiring watching so many leaders being know it all. Every leader is an apostle/prophet/teacher/pastor/evangelist. They know and see all perfectly.
Bethel has walked a couple things back. It's taken years to do so and they still don't have the most simple truth down. We are flawed humans, that can be prone to error. How is everyone that points out you may be wrong a pharisees or a critical spitit. THAT IS DVISIVE. We should pray, ask questions and discern the words people are saying. Not just slander them/call them a pharisees. Even Jesus told us to do as the pharisees say, bc their words were right. Don't be like them, but trust they do know the scriptures if it's in line with sound doctrine.
ESV is my favourite. When i became a Christian i started on New Living Translation.
Swwwwswp
Same that was my journey too
Have you heard of ISV, that's my favourite.
Me too!
I DO NOT understand y’all’s goal here. Brian Simmons has been proven to an illegitimate translator and claimed this translation came straight from Jesus. The reason people take issue with the translation is BECAUSE of love. You can’t just dismiss people changing the very word of God as being ‘critical’. You guys know very well that Brian doesn’t claim the passion to just be an enhancing paraphrase.
Brian Simmons, the man who claims Jesus took him to heaven and showed him John 22. If this isn’t enough to run away from TPT, I don’t know what is.
That's not what he said. He said that he saw a book called John 22.
Yes, he saw a third book titled John 22. Jesus told him he’s not ready for it but will bring him back one day and give it to him. 🤔
Did you know people visited Heaven in the Bible? It's a thing. Also, do you think John quit writing in heaven? I mean seriously, do you think we will all be playing harps on a cloud or in a 24/7 church service? Obviously God is into books, and the Bible is clear that there are books in Heaven (your names written in one.) But it's a logically fallacy even if someone is wrong about one thing to think they are wrong about another. They are unrelated. But if you don't know what the Bible says about Heaven and heaven experiences, you ought to study more before you try to rip things.
@@BradBeryeah, Paul visited heaven and said he wasn't allowed to say anything and wasn't even entirely sure of what happened anyway. Brian is lying, just like Kat Kerr.
The main criticism is EXTRA BIBLICAL REVELATION THAT IS PLACED ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE APOSTOLIC REVELATION, meaning that Brian Simmons had a "visitation" where he received "downloads" for his translation. Brian Simmons claims that Jesus will soon reveal to him ANOTHER, ADDITIONAL Chapter of the Gospel of John when he was in the "library of Heaven". This chapter 22 supposedly is sealed up for the last days teaching us to do the greater works that Jesus has spoken of ?!? Go watch his interview on Sid Roth!
A circular logic with stories and feeling to back it up? Why? And why is it so common to have this idea that a new believer either can't read or just wouldn't understand a word for word translation?
I have been testing the Passion translation verse by verse, word by word like a scholar. It is a horrible translation.
I don't think the topic was addressed at all. I feel like 99% of the time you talked about other translations and how they were met with criticism, well ok, but that doesn't make TPT a valid translation. On the TPT website there is a quote of Bill Johnson about the translation: "One of the greatest things to happen with Bible translation in my lifetime.". This is a very high feedback, so when now the translation gets so much evaluation from the scholars, who don't just know the language, but they dedicated their life's study to a specific book of the Bible and they say in one voice "I wouldn't call it a translation, it's even hard to call it a paraphrase" - I would expect a more thorough response from pastor Bill.
One of Mike Winger's scholars on the passion project stated that he has no problem calling the passion translation a translation.
@@JewandGreek sorry if I misrepresented the scholars opinion, I didn't mean that. Do you perhaps remember the name of the scholar? I was pretty sure I watched all the videos and don't remember anyone saying that it could be put in the category of translations. I'll review the scholar's feedbacks and will fix my comment, it won't change the overall point of the comment, but maybe then "in one voice" would be an exaggeration. God bless!
They don’t understand the word? New believers? Sure they do. We all understood. Some times we have to read more than once and that’s ok. Watering down the word is not necessary at all.
The Message is not a translation and the author never intended for it to be used as a primary text for study. Simmons claims his book is a true translation for use as primary text in bible study. You ought to warn your followers!!
If you are looking for accuracy of scripture this is not the translation.
Or put it differently, if I had to translate one of your books Bill… and translate in wrong wording, other meaning or even adding new phrases… would you allow that? Was this your original intend?
Then it would be how you interpret it, and would have to do with who you were interpreting it for. I know you think it's a mic drop, but you are forgetting that translations are made to appeal to certain cultures and languages. If your church uses kjv language, then that's translated into your language. Tell me about the different translation methods and which other ones you hate, which you like, and why?
Bill wouldn't like that at all. But, Bill is easy to interpret.....he is just plain and out right heretical!
@@EAB-bz6yi hahaha what? Did you develop your opinion from some youtube videos of people who hate anything Spirit filled? I challenge you to present a TPT verse with a note that you think is heretical for this choices, or a quote in context (non straw manned plz) of Bill's. Otherwise, you just sound like another 'christian' shooting his fellow soldiers on the battlefield.
@@BradBer Go back to Hogwart school....the devil is ringing the bell. Oh! or is Bethel still closed because you can't heal people from Covid....like yall brag about!
Bills own wife has reoccurring cancer....she can't even "receive a healing", as yall put it. Where is the evidence of Bethel or Bill healing anyone? Doctors reports?
Yall are so guliable, just like I was when I was a baby Christian. You just believe their stories of healing's with no proof. Don't forget the fact that people exaggerate healing and flat out lie, because they don't want to be accuse of not being able to "receive from God" or they really don't have "favor from God" or maybe everyone will think they are in really bad awful sin.....so they lie and fake it! Instead, it is "Hey, look at me, I am so righteous I am healed and I don't sin anymore...so now God can heal me and use me to heal others!" "Yeppy! Now I can be like Bill or Kris V or Smith Wiggles and buy an Ashton Martin and buy whatever I want!"
I was up in these kinds of meetings with the biggest names in charismania 20 years ago: Hedi Baker laid hands on me 3 times once in Toronto, Arnott's many times, Bob Jones, IHOP, etc.
TPT is called a translation (a text or word that has been changed from one language into another) while it is a paraphrase ( to express what somebody has said or written using different words, especially in order to make it easier to understand). Calling TPT a translation makes people believe the text is actually saying what TPT offers while according to linguistic standards it is not. Better yet, the TPT is even as paraphrase to be ignored while it adds to the text and cannot be considered a paraphrase.
Always appreciate honest dialogue about important issues, especially from Bill. Issues like these seem to come up from time to time. However, there actually weren’t any specific examples or scriptures given cited in the video, like comparing side by side to another translation which could have been very helpful.
Yeah, for a true critique, you will need to go elsewhere. This is not the place. Just dialogue that does not dig to get the truth. It is all about experience, feeling, new revelation. Very dangerous place for a church to be.
It's amazing that God has kept back revealing his heart until personally commissioning Brian Simmons. I mean... what pithy revivals we've had with empty hearted bibles. Finally, at long last, God has, through his mighty instrument, Dr. Simmons, given us what we've truly needed for victory. How sad and pathetic the church has been the last 2000 years.
This is sarcastic, right?
The problem with the Passion book is it should not be called a translation, it is more like commentary. Also when the author states that Jesus spoke to him and gave him the translation and that He called him to the library of Heaven? with a promise to reveal a new chapter of John ? Chapter 23. This wreaks of a Joseph Smith book of Mormon scenario? Pastor Johnson, I would be running for the hills if I'm in your church and your calling this book Canon? This is going down a slippery slope when you change the meaning or add to God's word.
When discerning whether or not you should read the passion "translation", you should realize, it was written by one man. Only one. When the others have been pain stakingly translated by more than 50 scholars in greek, hebrew, and aramaic. Bryan Simmons claims that Jesus pulled him into heaven, and has given him direct revelation to write this "tranalation" that is a dangerous lie. He also said that Jesus told him about John chapter 22, and that one day he will write it for people to hear, but they're "not ready to hear it".... the absurdity of this is disheartening.. this implies that God's holy word is not complete... which is heretical
It's amazing how far Dominion Theologists will go, even going as far as to re-write the Bible and twist scripture a way that fits into their own theology instead of yeilding to what God is actually saying.
The fact that Brian claims about having God reveal to him a new chapter in John that will be revealed when the time is right is most concerning. This has Joseph Smith vibes.
Brian Simmons has a team working with him. He doesn't work alone. He's stated this more than once.
@@mountainsriversandtrees1474 i have now realized this. But it still doesn't mean it's any more accurate. There is so much added, words that aren't there, full sentences added. And even more so are the phrases that have been entirely removed
The author literally claims his translation 'unlocks secrets hidden to his people previously ' cmon people doesn't that sound strange
Solomon wrote a lot of the old testament. He was one person... With 1,000 wives. I think there is more to this than which translation and which denomination - spirituality isn't science and it isn't exact.
Hebrew is the original language of most of the Old Testament (although there are some portions in Aramaic), and Greek is the original language of the New Testament.
Everything in English is an interpretation of these.
I respect your view. I often find translations like good news are easy choices for new beleivers. The problem is when a version is used that no longer sounds like the scriptures you have learnt and it can cause confusion. Some versions sound completely alien to the scriptures. As a new Christian my church used the message and I loved to hear it so I wanted to own it but when I bought it I didn't like it's structure. It was too hard to use. So I have it away. My first ever bible was word on the street. It have me a thirst to want to read the REAL bible
I too have the message. But my go to- is NIV, ESV, NLT…. Otherwise when I just wanna read- almost like a regular book- I pick up the message. The structure is different- without all of the verses specifically labeled.
@@julesybethmedlini "The Message" is called a paraphrase and is not considered to be the Bible, capital "B", but the bible, kind of like a kids story book bible.
@@Caderic that was written 2 years ago… now I am leaning into KJV… and wondering about the one prior to KJV…
We are actually a very favoured generation to have the word of God in our hands personally. For the word of God to be so accessible to the common man is a great blessing no other generation has had.
TPT is not a Godly version of His Word
And what a slap in the face it must be to God that even when we have the treasure of Scripture in our hands, it’s not good enough for these people. They need to write a “better” version for themselves.
@@faithnicole5310 Do you think the king james fell down from heaven or something? you people are insane. no translation is perfect. but the passion translation captures the heart of God so well
@@TElias5 The KJV and other qualified translations do their absolute best to stay true to the original text. The Passion Translation makes no effort to stay true to the actual Biblical scrolls, and it presents a false picture of who God is and what He promises. That is incredibly problematic for people genuinely seeking truth.
@@TElias5 Essentially speaking: Scripture does capture the heart of God perfectly, and most translations stay as true to the original text as possible. The Passion Translation makes up its own version of God and disregards original text.
The thing is, the author isn't working from the original texts as a scholar, or in a team. He paraphrases from an English language version which means his/our cultural biases come to bear on how he interprets the scriptures, and he isn't balanced by teamwork. 🔔🔔🔔 ALARM BELLS
Ah yes, I found a question on that FAQ page that directly addresses your assertion. I will quote it here for you:
There is often some confusion in the Christian community when it comes to various versions of the Bible, particularly the differences between “translation” and “paraphrase.”
A paraphrase version of the Bible utilizes an existing English-language translation as its base text. It paraphrases one version into more contemporary language. For instance, in 1971 the creator of The Living Bible paraphrased the existing American Standard Version of 1901 to create a new English-language Bible version.
A translation, however, uses the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts as the base text for a new version of the Bible. It translates these original languages into a modern language. For example, the translators of the New International Version in 1978 worked off the original ancient-language manuscripts to produce a new English Bible by translating those ancient languages into the modern language.
Similar to such functional or dynamic equivalent translations as the New International Version and the New Living Translation Bible versions, The Passion Translation is a new version of God’s Word that is considered a translation because it uses the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts to translate the essential message of the Scriptures into contemporary English.
Where do you get your information that he took it from an existing English translation?
It's not a translation or a paraphrase. Brian Simmons has no credentials to undertake such an endeavor. Plus, he didn't use a committee of scholars like every other translation and paraphrase has used. He got his inspiration and so called "secrets" of the Hebrew and Aramaic languages from an angel that called itself Passion. Where have you heard that before? Bethel needs to renounce this thing and distance themselves as far away as possible.
Surely when you read a bible claiming to be a translation it should be relatively accepted by the people who Bill says he normally trusts. What about the swell of very concerned experts. Bethel have some issues theologically I am told....this doesn't help.
The issue is it's not a “Translation.” It is a paraphrase at best, and the authors personal theology built in that is not in the text. (that needs to be disclosed)
I like it but I would not preach from it. I might use it to be illustrative but not to build my theology on.
Bill Mounce says that a paraphrase is a rewording of an existing translation. He said that if you consult the original languages it's not a paraphrase but a translation.
Having to defend your use of the passion translation on RUclips. Yikes.
I looove the PT❤
The Passion Translation is NOT a translation…. call it what it is … a paraphrase. One man’s idea of how he can improve on God’s Word!
The problem seems to be that it is called a translation rather than what it is, a paraphrase.
There's no consensus on the distinction between a translation and a paraphrase.
"The main problem is that this book is being taught by people who aren't in love." 😳 Well isn't that the real heart of the matter.
This statement: “Bible is being taught by people who does NOT have an RELATIONSHIP with The Holy Spirit… that’s HARSH!!”
Who teaches the Bible? In depth ....but those that love the Lord...
No, I don't believe that it is the heart of the matter. There are tons of biblical scholars who love the real Jesus and have devoted their lives to the Scriptures because they are deeply in love with the God of the universe, and want nothing more than to rightly divide the word of truth. They point out very big problems with this foolish paraphrase of a text. There are no Aramaic originals, and the author claims to be pulling from them in some mystical way.
He does not have a handle on hebrew or greek, but says he is the recipient of special revelation regarding those languages he does not know, including extra chapters of the closed cannon.
This is outright deception, and needs to be called out for what it is.
No, it isn't the heart of the matter. Don't mess with and distort the Word of God to fit your view of God. (See PT's rendition of 1 Timothy 2:11-14, 1 Corinthians 14:33-34 to see just an example of how PT attempts to distort God's words)
@Dean Agnor aside from the whole Aramaic issue, it is startling some the words he chooses to use in the translation. Words that seem to “benefit” the jargon used inside churches like Bethel.
the passion bible is not a bible. it is not accurate to the original texts. Brian is adding all kinds of his own ideas to the bible making it his own writings, not scripture. HOW CAN YOU CHURCH LEADERS NOT SEE THE OBVIOUS? WHY DOES THIS NOT SCARE YOU? WHY ARE YOU NOT BRINGING BRIAN TO ACCOUNT OVER THIS? IT ISNT EVEN REMOTELY ACCURATE.
You don't need thees and thous to have an accurate translation. People aren't stupid either. The Passion "Translation" adds a lot to the original text, which is unnecessary and potentially dangerous. The Passion isn't even a translation, at best it's a commentary.
My wife is a new Christian, and English is her second language. She's had pretty much zero issues with the NKJV, and uses the NLT if she needs clarification.
The Passion "translation" is no better than a modern day "book of Mormon".
Check out Mike Winger's videos on the subject.
I think the problem is Bill. The deciet and lies behind the guy who supposedly "translated" the Passion. Watch Mike Wingers videos . The guy lied on his credentials. He doesn't even know the language enough to translate . Your being so deceptive in this. Your just creating a bigger problem with these. And alot of God fearing God loving real spiritual leaders are saying the passion translation isn't a good one. Your whole theory about a Bible for new believers to read and understand well hey the new living is a fine one
How about talk about how we got this new " Bible Translation" the writer is not a scholar and " Jesus Christ literally visited him in his room, breathed on him, and commissioned him to write a new translation of the Bible. " If this is true... Then why say Mormos are wrong or Jehovah Witnesses. Don't they have the same claims... Blessings brothers and sisters! if you like this version ok but do some research its ok to question what your favorites teachers say is ok.. Learn for yourselves. Blessings!
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation
Use words correctly. Use scripture in context. Not all scripture is "prophecy." the word "private" means something. Interpretation is something we all do when we read based on our knowledge and experience. Using scripture out of context is using God's word in vain. You prove yourself to be incapable of using scripture if u think that quote has anything to do with the many Bible versions to different languages and cultures used throughout all time.
@@BradBer this is not a translation... it's a private interpretation. I enjoy many translations with multiple scholastic contributors.
@@indigenous31617 I think you misunderstood the point of my comment above regarding your use of scripture. But yeah, it's not a translation in the exact sense, but if you have any pro evangelism vibes and understand how missionaries translate ideas into a particular cultures language, then you can get a closer idea the function of the Passion.
But most knee jerk reactions against it are done by the same people who hate anything from the Spirit filled hands and feet of the church.
And if their fear is that someone will forsake other translations for this one alone, that's just illogical.
And the irony of it all is, those who object the most and the rudest to TPT are the types who would benefit most from it as a devotional sort of Biblical reading with a heartbeat.
But, they are too busy humbly and meekly being critics.
Bill, have the courage to ask Holy Spirit His opinion of the Passion Translation.
U do that first
@@astar7772 Many have, including myself.
@New Eyes To See you must be a cessationist
@@PaulOfPeace54 so what did The Lord tell you
@@astar7772 I asked His opinion of TPT. He said "I prefer King James and New King James." "They are the most accurate." BTW, I am not a 'King James only' person. I enjoy comparing versions. Search the word with guidance from Holy Spirit.
This is really very sinister stuff. They did not address even one single critique of TPT, but just effectively told everyone there's no reason to ever question the legitimacy of a new translation which brings new ideas, and judged anyone who would do so as having a critical spirit with no genuine love for God. Wow.
I’ve read the NIV/NLT since I was a young girl and never felt like I needed another translation because of “hetherin, thees and thous”
Brian Simmons visitation by an angelic being that inspired the TPT is reason enough for me to avoid it.
I don’t believe he’s blowing smoke. I believe he actually had an encounter with an angel…
…just not an angel of light.
Both Joseph Smith and Muhammed claim they were visited by an angel.
Both of them ignored Galatians 1:6-9
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel - 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: if anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
When you claim that an angel instructed you to write a new bible and that the gospel of John is incomplete you are falling in to the same trap that Joseph Smith did, you are listening to doctrine of demons.
The problem with it is the fact that it’s called “translation” but isn’t actually a translation. It’s not very accurate. It’s more of a “message bible” I think if he went that route in writing it and called it a type of “message paraphrased bible” then people wouldn’t feel as harsh about it. Also, he claims that he got the verses line for line directly from Heaven. Which is basically what a lot of folks have done, such as: joseph smith and even Muhammad while writing the Quran. I love bethel. And I think the passion is cool for a “fun read” but there are actual issues with the text.
It’s a translation lol mate learn what a translation is
Wow, there is some truth twisting in this video!
Simply put It's a seeker friendly interpretation and not a translation
Whatever happened to reverence for the Holy Word?
To those confused by the comments here, be careful of those who would seek to push God off His throne and condemn others in their self-righteousness. I had initially been cautious of Bill because of the criticism he gets, but after months of watching the man, the level of spiritual maturity the Lord has given him is a beautiful thing to behold. This interview is well on point.
Fall in love with your Creator, get to know Him intimately, personally, closely. Learn to know His Spirit, the way he moves and speaks. Feed on the Word and you will grow in hunger for more. The Passion is a good place to start for understanding, but like all versions it isn't perfect. Read it alongside an NRSV, academics prefer this because of its word for word accuracy. And get a free app with a Strongs Concordance, it'll make the experience so much richer and fun. Always invite the Spirit, His love, wisdom and revelation into your time with the living Word. Consciously study it together and you'll grow from strength to strength. Honour the Word always, and be very, very careful of those who do not demonstrate Godly love in their speech or character, especially those who belonging to the body of Christ would regardless seek to divide it according to their own wisdom.
I'm a Pastor, but none of us have it all right, myself included! it's on you. Don't just settle for knowing of Him, get to actually know Him. Jesus loves you so much. Passionately seek Him out with all your heart and may His Spirit lead you by the deepest pools of joy and peace and into waterfalls of loving revelation.
Bill is a wolf. If you don’t recognize that I feel for those you care for. 😢
I really like your comment but I have concerns about the author. What are your thoughts on Brian Simmons adding another chapter to the book of John?
Also, I have a lot of questions about Dominion Theology, which it seams Brian is adding into some of the scriptures I have read in the Passion. I can give you examples if you like.
Please don't take this as a critical spirit on my part. I just have questions that maybe you or someone else could shed some light upon.
It's sad that the comments section is becoming the devil's playground.
Anyway
Hope we can dialogue. Be blessed my brother. You seam like a really loving pastor.
Just wanted to add that, yes, none of us have it all right.
Being a believer for 40 years and having a passion to study God’s word, I have many translations and I use them all! I have a KJV with Strong’s concordance app on my phone which is so easy to access. I have The Complete Jewish Bible and I even have The Jesus Book which is the Bible translated by Whitcliffe into Hawaiian Pigeon.
My first Bible was The Way that was targeted to the Jesus People of the ‘70’s. Then I was given an NASB which I destroyed from so much use but I still have it. I just kept
collecting and I love them all.
They all contain that which is living and active and sharper than any two edged sword!
And I love the Passion Translation! It helps to read the introduction and the background of the author and its translation. Reading that is what made me want to get the translation.
❣️❣️
If you've read all of them, then you especially should have noticed how extra paragraphs and incorrect phrasings of greek terms that are in TPT.
@@HerveyShmervy all I know is that I LOVE LOVE LOVE Jesus! And if any translation draws me into a deeper, more intimate relationship with Him then that’s all I need. I will stay away from any translation that draws me away from Him and so far I haven’t found one.
@@barbarahall6284 a relationship with God is not an emotion. It is the acceptance of truth (similar to how Jesus wants us to worship). Based on your convictions based on what makes you "feel good". That's not a strong foundation of faith and truth. Why would you put how something makes you feel over the verocity of the real words of the word of God? Do you not see your bad logic behind that?
Are you familiar with the New World Translation?
The guy added a chapter to one of the gospels (or is going to). What about that?
Not here to debate...but the passion is harrisy. Just look at the history of it.
He littered said Jesus gave him a New translation. You can read it out of his context. Its gross.
The difficulty with the Passion Translation is Brian gets some things alright, and then completely changes other things to mean something that was never intended, and it's a lot of work to try and figure out which is which. I've come to the conclusion it's best not to read it at all, we have so many better and more consistent translations, there's no need to mess with TPT. Also, what the heck is with Brian saying there's new Aramaic documents found when there isn't? I really appreciated Mike Winger's work on this, came from a place of love for the body but also a love for the word.
"Fighting for the Faith" on youtube. A must watch.
The Living Bible was such a blessing to me as a teenager
"Even if you don't agree with him, you at least understand where he's coming from."
What??? This is THE BIBLE!!!!
The answer is YES, ABSOLUTELY. Respected scholars want nothing to do with it.
It has to do more with pride
I too would like to show people the passion God has for them.
Man. If only there was a more succinct way to say, "for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believed in him would not perish but have everlasting life."
If only.
Cmon Pastor, you need to exercise discernment. The Passion Translation is not a translation at all. Translations are supposed to take words in one language and make them clear in another. The passion translation literally adds ideas to scripture. Stay far from it.
Yeah, it's almost like the translation was written in the language of a group different than your own, a group who loves how it speaks to them in their language, and clearly fills a need left unfulfilled by other outdated translations. Hmmmmm sounds like your reasoning actually supports its usage. Don't let the word translation trip you up. There are people who will tell you that the only good translation is a literal one, and when they do, they show they don't understand principles of translation - there are many different methods.
@@BradBer I hear you Brad, but if you read the Passion translation, you ought to quickly realize that it is not a translation, but an interpretation, as it adds ideas and concepts to the Bible that are not present in the original. It’s not the Bible made into relevant and understandable.
@@jkirks8 thanks for your reply. My main concern is that people have been poisoned by people who dislike things that come from another denomination. I'll do as I have been doing and give you a couple of passages and see if you disagree. It's one thing to say it changes everything but it's another to actually look at the text and decide.
7 Those who are loved by God, let his love continually pour from you to one another, because God is love. Everyone who loves is fathered by God and experiences an intimate knowledge of him. 8 The one who doesn’t love has yet to know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:7-8 TPT
10 A thief has only one thing in mind-he wants to steal, slaughter, and destroy. But I have come to give you everything in abundance, more than you expect -life in its fullness until you overflow! 11 I am the Good Shepherd who lays down my life as a sacrifice for the sheep.
John 10:10-11 TPT
Do you see are here? Or do you see a thought for Thought translation? Does it sound like this is going against scriptural teachings? Or does it seem like the same people who dislike anything other than the King James are telling you that this is bad just like they did with the new international version or The Message Bible?
@@BradBer even broken clocks are right twice a day, my brother. An errorless passage doesn’t make it an errorless translation/interpretation. And it’s not KJV only people who are against the passion translation. I don’t read KJV at all except for occasional cross translation sermon prep. I have an issue with TPT because I care about the integrity of the text, and TPT as a whole is not a translation but an interpretation that reads into scripture and adds to it. Please Send me a video on why TPT is trustworthy and I’ll watch it, if you agree to watch Mike Wingers in depth video on TPT. He is also not a KJV only guy, nor is he dogmatic or legalistic. He brings a balanced view, and it’s worth listening to.
well there is no scholarship in the PT, and its not correct, and it distorts the meaning. its not good. it shouldnt be used.
Can you please differentiate between people operating from a critical spirit and people who are genuinely trying to guard against deception? Or people who just have a passion for seeing God's word handled correctly, like Paul exhorted Timothy to do? There is so much bad teaching or slightly skewed theology out there. The more I know the bible, the more I'm recognising it - like people who preach a message without even bothering to check if their premise is scripturally accurate. I would hate to see anyone be discouraged from wise scepticism or testing what they hear just because they don't want to be critical.
(I'm actually on the same page as Bill in that the Passion is not my go-to translation, but I keep it in my toolbox when I want to dig deeper and get other perspectives on a passage.
That being said, I have had a few qualms about his take on some passages, so I would actually dissuade people from using TPT as their primary bible.)
This passion bible whatever the intent dumbs down believers to look at the Christian walk as boiled down to good 'feelings' about God. Just call it the woke bible because it's the same spirit. If you correctly discern how dangerous it is because it is changing God's Word, you are labeled as having a critical spirit. It's no different than what the liberal spirit of the age does to people with cancel culture, take away their voice to question things that are wrong. Down the road this moves the church to accept the world.
Why should the Bible have an agenda? Just stick to the BEST ACTUAL translation. Why do you think the original scribes had to tear up what they wrote if they had a single mistake. Critical vs discerning. There is a difference!
Lord, convict Brian Simmons and grant him repentance, in Jesus’s name. 😔
I think most scholars would say if you’re studying the Bible, look at multiple translations. Some would say a minimum of 5 translations. I like the idea of treating some translations as a commentary. I think that’s a really good idea.
I would rather people read the Passion Translation than not read any Bible at all, which I think is a bigger problem.
The ESV and NKJV are my base translations but I love doing comparisons with other translations. I’ll be having a look at that New Century Version now! I always like to use a new translation every time I read through the Bible from cover to cover, it spreads new light on it. I quite like the ‘Word of Promise’ dramatised digital audio NKJV version too to keep things fresh.
So well put. I personally have seen how the Passion translation has caused someone to start to want to know more about Jesus. Blessings.
Agree totally ..it all comes under the heading ...judge not that you be not judged....just read what blesses you❤️
I don't think the problem is a lack of good translations out there, if anyone wants to read the Bible. False claims alongside lack of true scholarship, while making tons of money from this is a much bigger issue.
The internet provides every translation. TPT is a very bad excuse for a translation by a guy who contradicts himself frequently, makes bizarre claims that contradict scripture, and so on.
It's just a lie that NASB or ESV could not be understood by new believers.
When I got saved I barley ever read any books so my reading comprehension was bad. When I read the ESV, NASB, NKJV etc I would get discouraged because I felt like I couldn’t understand the Bible. I had to read the message or NIV and even that was hard for me to understand. It took me years to understand other translations.
@@BruhSick I think it is important to try to stick to the Word of God rather than reading perversions of it. The assumption is that everyone will read the passion translation and then when they grow will take up ESV or some other version. It's however not true. Majority will stick to the passion all their lives and never progress. Passion has some serious errors which has the capacity to lead people away from the faith. My question is why read such a translation?
It's important not to encourage people to read the passion. A few years down the line we will never know whether these people will be saved in the first place. People need to come to the Church to hear the words of Jesus Christ and not the words of Brian Simmons. Brian Simmons words does not get people saved. Jesus Christ's words does.
@@BruhSick If NIV and message suits you, it's good. These are good paraphrases to start with. Even NLT is good point to start with. However The passion adds on to the Scriptures to a point where The Word of God is unrecognisable. That's my concern regarding that.
A neighbor I had recently had never been churched. She was 60 at the time. She could barely read. The new century version is what I bought for her. It was still hard but way easier than the other ones I’d been reading to her. She had no foundation for anything in the Bible. She needed something in plain English. ESV seems plain English to those of us who’ve been in the church for a while but not for the unchurched.
@@suzannemartin6817 Thanks for sharing that. I was from a completely non Christian culture and English is not my first language. I have seen people use, message and amplified in those cases, which I think is justified. However it is important to note that passion is one step lesser to that. It is blatantly wrong in many places twisting the Word of God
For new believers, please go to the New Living Translation, not the Passion.
7:50 feels like a straw man argument. Many Bible scholars who care about biblical integrity and being true to the original Greek and Hebrew texts also love Jesus and love His word.
Because we question means we don’t love God and his truth? Bill, is that what you just said to defend your Passion translation? So we can’t think critically?
Straw man much?
@@BradBerexcept it's not a strawman, it's actually a common fallacy of FALSE TEACHERS trying to defend their most favorite-est blasphemy by saying "THE BIBLE SAYS YOU CAN'T JUDGE ME!" and other nonsense like this tripe defending the demonic Passion misTranslation 😂
AS A BIBLE TRANSLATOR MYSELF to minoriry groups, I just wish The Passion project would turn to fund Bible translation to people groups who actually need their very first translation as they never had a single one. We bible translators struggle so much to raise funds, train locals, form a commity and diligently work 10-20 years in the field translating the New Testament to start with...years and years of a lot of hard work just because we believe everyone should have access to the Bible in the language they understand. Meanwhile, English speakers delight and are indulged in inumerous versions, translations, paraphrases, comentaries, Bible for kids, teens, woman, man, for pastors, for mums, artists, etc, etc,etc..and all of those still not enough to satisfy their hearts..Iam not against all of this variety by any means, i benefit from them too, I just feel like it is a bit unfair and i dare to say a bit selfish if we are aware of the massive need of translations in other languages .We would still know Jesus, his love and all of God's passion for his people with 1 single translation...it did the job for all the christians that came before us and it does for millions that only have 1 version of the Bible in their language today. Who would like to join our efford to make the Bible available to all languages that still need a translation? We can make a huge difference in the lives of millions of christians, help their spiritual grouth and consequently reaching out those who ultimately dont't know who is author of the Word of God. I tell you, that is so worth it! When you see the tears coming down from someone who read the Bible in their language and understood what it meant for the first time...you think, yes, that is an effort worthwhile!
If you disagree with the translation, have you asked yourself why?
Could it be that it's wrong?
If you've never disagreed with a translation then you haven't learned about any translations and the process of it. Name any translation and there are "wrong" things depending on perspective and translation methods. This is why none is perfect (it is a translation after all-even kjv, nasb, NIV, esv etc) and this is why we use many translations and many tools to make the most robust Bible study.
@@BradBer these guys say they disagree with how Simmons translates certain portions of scripture. I contend that they disagree because Simmons is wrong. They are more careful in their complaints about this "translation" than they are about their complaints about legitimate concerns.
As for me disagreeing with respected translations, there are few things that I don't like about them. I love the translations that are closer to word-for-word rather than thought-for-thought since they are closer to the original languages.
@@isaacparks1105 Generalizations from haters dont help, ya know?
Like, if you dig recent biblical scholarship, you'll know why he made these choices, right?
16 For here is the way God loved the world-he gave his only, unique Son as a gift. So now everyone who believes in him will never perish but experience everlasting life.
John 3:16 TPT
I don't agree with all his notes and reasons, like his idea of the mark IN Rev meaning humanity when I prefer gematria, but we can understand that perspective and its prevalent.
I just see the main critics being people who already have a hate campaign against the nar-boogeyman and love to place themselves as judge without trying to understand.
Word for word is great, providing we understand the cultural references and meanings of the original words, right? That's why any serious studiers use many translations and helps, and though I prefer word to word too, in the parables, thought for thought is amazing. Because we aren't in 1st venture culture, ya know?
Thank you, Bethel, for doing this. I feel this is an appropriate and necessary thing to do.
To be honest, I have been inspired and blessed by your ministry but have had concerns as well. It’s not an attack, I’m just being upfront.
Something I would like to see in the future is a dialogue between you and someone that doesn’t agree with you. It would be great to see you hash it out together.
It seems many are scared to do this or don’t feel it is necessary. I disagree.
Working through Christian doctrine is extremely relevant considering it affects how we live, love, and treat others. Also, it safeguards us from walking in error.
I’ve heard some say, “why do we worry so much about what other ministries are doing and why are we so critical?”
My concern is people “in the name of God” kill, steal, or deceive others into not having a relationship with Jesus Christ.
What is the underlying issue? An incorrect understanding of God and His word.
I want other Christians to be concerned with whether or not I am teaching and preaching things that are true or false. Of course I’d prefer them to not be mean-spirited about it, but either way-if I have to humble myself and change something because they have brought it to my attention and are right, I pray I will do so.