I just looked up that portion of the guy said that Jesus asked him for forgiveness. It’s still on their RUclips channel from seven years ago. That is insanity.
Where are the lines between a true and false church? Are all non-reformed or calvinistic churches false churches? I agree with the concerns, but I would be hesitant to call anyone a false church unless there is a clear biblical framework to identify true and false churches.
Bethel and Hillsong promote heresies like the little gods doctrine. They teach the Word Faith theology. The WF theology is dependent 100% on man, and to obtain the supposed blessings one doesn't even need to be a Christian (a teaching promulgated by Kenneth Hagin). If they follow Joyce Meyer's teaching, which is also echoed by Kenneth Copeland, they teach Christ achieved victory while in the grave, not on the cross. There are a lot of reasons why WF is heretical, but that's just some of them. They promise you what you want as a heathen.
"WEIRD" IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO TRASH OTHERS WAYS OF WORSHIP. I'm not in denial. I know that deceptions are real and pervasive. But trashing something because you dont understand it or feel it isnt a valid excuse. I FEEEEEL to the point of divine tears when I listen to HILLSONG UNITEDs album 'From Dirt to Grace'. I absolutely LOVE Bill Johnson and sense only Wisdom, Truth and Love from him. I would much rather be a person like Bill than any of you boring, fear based folks. OH NO..... he worships differently than me. They use drum beats in their songs. They aspire to be like Christ and heal others. They turn the lights down so it must be satanic. You are all pathetic not recognizing that God wants us to experience Joy and Love in a multitude of forms and styles. And I could just as easily trash your conception of a what a church is or should be. Ecclesia is NOT A BUILDING WITH A PASTOR. Its a community.
The meaning of the word cult has changed. I consider a 'cult' too strong a word for Mormons, Bethel and such. I set it aside for Nation of Islam, JonesTown and the like. It fits a group of men who head out to the outback of Utah with weapons and a dozen teenage girls.
I have found that the Christian church typically defines cults to be institutions that branch off of particular belief systems but which deny at least one MAJOR doctrine of the parent religion. The more mainline, secular definition (and this would also be recognized by the church) would recognize a charismatic and highly influential figure or figures who is/are the focal point of the parasitic belief system. There are other definitions that are in play, but these cover the basics. Note that there are religions and then there are cults. Islam is a religion, as is Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, and others. Each of these can, and often do, have cults that branch off of them. We Christians recognize that there is the truth of who God is, what sin is, what the gospel message is, etc. These are MAJOR doctrines. As such, Hillsong and Bethel certainly qualify as cults, alongside the LDS (Mormons), JWs, Catholicism, SDAs, and others. Elevation certainly has deviated away from orthodoxy and toward the "Word of Faith"/ "Prosperity Gospel", and although I don't know if they qualify as a cult, they are at minimum misleading, sloppy, if not dangerous (check out Jordan Petersons' discussions on this outfit). Among the issues with these cults (which purport to be mainline Christianity) is when churches play or sing their music. If the church leadership is ethical, they pay royalties to the content provider(s); this money, in part, fuels these heresies. Additionally, by playing or singing this music, churches give legitimacy to these outfits. Sure, some of their songs pass the "sniff test" of orthodoxy, but that's not the main issue. I left a church over this issue, and I don't regret it.
I agree that Bethel and Hillsong have many problems I agree that in general churches should stay away from their music. However he lost me when he said one of the main reasons was because they believe it is God’s will to heal. That is a legitimate view and does not mean that one is a part of the New Apostolic reformation. Healing is promised in scripture, does James not tell believers who are sick to be prayed for? Does it not give the command with the promise “ the prayer of faith shall save the sick.” This is an ordinance and a promise just as much for the church in this day as in others. Does Isaiah 53 speaking of Christ’s atonement not say “ Yet he himself bore our sicknesses, and he carried our pains.” Matthew 8:17 which is a quotation of this verse renders it “ himself took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses “ and the apostle quotes this in response to Jesus’ healing ministry. Did Christ not say to many “ your faith has made you well” does it not say that the prayer of faith is what heals? Healing like all of God’s promises is received by faith. God can and does at times heal for his own sovereign purposes but that is not the norm. Most in today’s churches are unenlightened on the subject of healing and to no surprise correspondingly healings are rare in our day.
Look at Jesus's life. He did not heal every sick person He encountered. Jesus healed a single paralytic at the fountain of Bethesda out of many simply because He was doing His Fathers will and not His own. And His Fathers will is NOT to heal 100% everyone and every single time. He ONLY grants healing when HE decides to grant it ALWAYS. Preaching that God wants to heal 100% every time is wrong and unbiblical and a simple look at Jesus's ministry shows that. Also Bill Johnsons wife died recently of what? Exactly. Cancer.
Is there any scripture you can point to to prove your position? I gave you several and you didn’t give me a single one. Im not trying to be offensive I just wonder if you even read my comment. God’s word says plainly “Surely he hath bore our sicknesses and carried our pains” that is either true or not in the same a chapter it says Christ bore our sins. The same word is used to describe both and is the same word to describe the scapegoat bearing the sins of the people out to the wilderness.If Christ bore our sins then he bore our sicknesses as well because it says both.
I'm a new believer and my limited understanding is that it is not our actions (prayer or faith) that directly heals, we should pray and have strong faith of course but it is God who chooses to heal or not heal. And if you are unwell, that doesn't mean you don't have strong faith or haven't prayed enough. The false message from Bethel is that we have control over our healing and if youve been healed its because of your own doing. But God has all the control over healing and all the Glory.
I am glad that you are a new believer that’s awesome. I would have to disagree though, healing like salvation is by faith. God is in control of salvation, healing, and all of the blessings we receive in Christ and has ordained that we “through faith and patience inherit the promises” Hebrews 6:12. All of Gods blessings are received through faith.
![Quando Rondo - Life Goes On [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIf3fhMXAow/mqdefault.jpg)
I just looked up that portion of the guy said that Jesus asked him for forgiveness. It’s still on their RUclips channel from seven years ago. That is insanity.
Where are the lines between a true and false church? Are all non-reformed or calvinistic churches false churches? I agree with the concerns, but I would be hesitant to call anyone a false church unless there is a clear biblical framework to identify true and false churches.
Bethel and Hillsong promote heresies like the little gods doctrine. They teach the Word Faith theology. The WF theology is dependent 100% on man, and to obtain the supposed blessings one doesn't even need to be a Christian (a teaching promulgated by Kenneth Hagin). If they follow Joyce Meyer's teaching, which is also echoed by Kenneth Copeland, they teach Christ achieved victory while in the grave, not on the cross. There are a lot of reasons why WF is heretical, but that's just some of them. They promise you what you want as a heathen.
What's the Lord's day
I have “chunked them all together.”
"WEIRD" IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO TRASH OTHERS WAYS OF WORSHIP. I'm not in denial. I know that deceptions are real and pervasive. But trashing something because you dont understand it or feel it isnt a valid excuse. I FEEEEEL to the point of divine tears when I listen to HILLSONG UNITEDs album 'From Dirt to Grace'. I absolutely LOVE Bill Johnson and sense only Wisdom, Truth and Love from him. I would much rather be a person like Bill than any of you boring, fear based folks. OH NO..... he worships differently than me. They use drum beats in their songs. They aspire to be like Christ and heal others. They turn the lights down so it must be satanic. You are all pathetic not recognizing that God wants us to experience Joy and Love in a multitude of forms and styles. And I could just as easily trash your conception of a what a church is or should be. Ecclesia is NOT A BUILDING WITH A PASTOR. Its a community.
Mark 9:23, KJV: Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
The meaning of the word cult has changed. I consider a 'cult' too strong a word for Mormons, Bethel and such. I set it aside for Nation of Islam, JonesTown and the like. It fits a group of men who head out to the outback of Utah with weapons and a dozen teenage girls.
I have found that the Christian church typically defines cults to be institutions that branch off of particular belief systems but which deny at least one MAJOR doctrine of the parent religion. The more mainline, secular definition (and this would also be recognized by the church) would recognize a charismatic and highly influential figure or figures who is/are the focal point of the parasitic belief system. There are other definitions that are in play, but these cover the basics.
Note that there are religions and then there are cults. Islam is a religion, as is Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, and others. Each of these can, and often do, have cults that branch off of them.
We Christians recognize that there is the truth of who God is, what sin is, what the gospel message is, etc. These are MAJOR doctrines. As such, Hillsong and Bethel certainly qualify as cults, alongside the LDS (Mormons), JWs, Catholicism, SDAs, and others. Elevation certainly has deviated away from orthodoxy and toward the "Word of Faith"/ "Prosperity Gospel", and although I don't know if they qualify as a cult, they are at minimum misleading, sloppy, if not dangerous (check out Jordan Petersons' discussions on this outfit).
Among the issues with these cults (which purport to be mainline Christianity) is when churches play or sing their music. If the church leadership is ethical, they pay royalties to the content provider(s); this money, in part, fuels these heresies. Additionally, by playing or singing this music, churches give legitimacy to these outfits. Sure, some of their songs pass the "sniff test" of orthodoxy, but that's not the main issue. I left a church over this issue, and I don't regret it.
wow thats a spank
really it was a matter of would you like lemon in your tea
i dont know but is that just for men
At least Elevation music is catchy 😅
I agree that Bethel and Hillsong have many problems I agree that in general churches should stay away from their music. However he lost me when he said one of the main reasons was because they believe it is God’s will to heal. That is a legitimate view and does not mean that one is a part of the New Apostolic reformation. Healing is promised in scripture, does James not tell believers who are sick to be prayed for? Does it not give the command with the promise “ the prayer of faith shall save the sick.” This is an ordinance and a promise just as much for the church in this day as in others. Does Isaiah 53 speaking of Christ’s atonement not say “ Yet he himself bore our sicknesses, and he carried our pains.” Matthew 8:17 which is a quotation of this verse renders it “ himself took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses “ and the apostle quotes this in response to Jesus’ healing ministry. Did Christ not say to many “ your faith has made you well” does it not say that the prayer of faith is what heals? Healing like all of God’s promises is received by faith. God can and does at times heal for his own sovereign purposes but that is not the norm. Most in today’s churches are unenlightened on the subject of healing and to no surprise correspondingly healings are rare in our day.
Look at Jesus's life. He did not heal every sick person He encountered. Jesus healed a single paralytic at the fountain of Bethesda out of many simply because He was doing His Fathers will and not His own. And His Fathers will is NOT to heal 100% everyone and every single time. He ONLY grants healing when HE decides to grant it ALWAYS.
Preaching that God wants to heal 100% every time is wrong and unbiblical and a simple look at Jesus's ministry shows that. Also Bill Johnsons wife died recently of what? Exactly. Cancer.
Is there any scripture you can point to to prove your position? I gave you several and you didn’t give me a single one. Im not trying to be offensive I just wonder if you even read my comment. God’s word says plainly “Surely he hath bore our sicknesses and carried our pains” that is either true or not in the same a chapter it says Christ bore our sins. The same word is used to describe both and is the same word to describe the scapegoat bearing the sins of the people out to the wilderness.If Christ bore our sins then he bore our sicknesses as well because it says both.
I'm a new believer and my limited understanding is that it is not our actions (prayer or faith) that directly heals, we should pray and have strong faith of course but it is God who chooses to heal or not heal. And if you are unwell, that doesn't mean you don't have strong faith or haven't prayed enough.
The false message from Bethel is that we have control over our healing and if youve been healed its because of your own doing. But God has all the control over healing and all the Glory.
@@keeponrockin85 Yes. You understand it correctly.
I am glad that you are a new believer that’s awesome. I would have to disagree though, healing like salvation is by faith. God is in control of salvation, healing, and all of the blessings we receive in Christ and has ordained that we “through faith and patience inherit the promises” Hebrews 6:12. All of Gods blessings are received through faith.
Th deception is deep here in the comments aisle…alas
Are we trying to get out of this mug alive?