19:29 Please explain to me then why Ben Fitzgerald was the one taking the students to England in 2011 and doing exactly what this video tries to rebuke? Or Mrs. Johnson laying across the grave site of C. S. Lewis?
The idea that some spiritual aspect of one's being, in this case the annoiting of the Holy Spirit on those in the upper room, can operate seperate from said people and imprint geographically on an area must first be proven, or atleast in the Christian sphere. The Spirit of God is omnipresent and thus not restricted to any specific area. HE chooses how He would like to manifest at any given time. He is not some unseen force that we happen to aquire a piece of if we find ourselves in a place some believers were before. This sounds like a lot of hocuspocus and definitely things we see in mysticism. The person who died in Christ leaves nothing behind. Their body returns to the earth and their spirit to God. The annoiting one gets from God when they are regenerated is the Spirit of God Himself. So this whole idea that some people's graves or some sites are some sort of porthole to receive spiritual impartions, is new age. This is the stuff that the new agers and the pagans do. The Lord said 'you shall not worship like the pagans do'. My heart literally breaks for the people who are deceived by these wolves in sheep's clothing. But as the saying goes, the one with an argument will always lose against the one with an experience. They can't deny their experiences, and neither can we, the sad thing is they automatically assume it's God as if the devil doesnt masquerade as an angel of light.
I’m very critical of this church because of what I have heard other people say about them. Now I am sure this is the cleaned up version of what was said initially but what he is saying here is dead on. He is not looking for something from the dead. He, in this interview, is saying they are asking God to bring the type of blessing that was on the people or generations of the past.
They didn’t say they need the power of the dead. They said they honored those who’ve gone before them. That’s very different. They were very clear that all communication is to God and all power comes from him.
@@kevinmandara5186 this isn’t just for you.. but Christians in general say things like: Im very critical because of what you’ve heard other people say about them. The Bible calls that slander and gossip. If you have an issue with the pastor you take it to the Lord and keep your mouth quiet. We are to pray for people when or if we believe they are in the wrong. Do you even know the heart of another person ? Think about the heart of the people who are making the videos That slander and gossip about Bethel. People that come into agreement with it are going to come under judgment. Every person is judged Based upon how we judge. Including myself.
@UCAzbaeo81mDYZIHOmXWyRMg I know this was not specifically directed at me. I have to ask, did you read my whole comment? I said I’m critical of them but I went on to say, what he is saying in this video is accurate and not what they have been accused of. On another note. If someone in a position of prominence is leading people falsely, it is not slander or gossip to call them out on it.
May the Lord bring truth to light and expose the darkness...may He expose the wolves in sheep's clothing...and may He bring conviction to those who do evil in the sight of the Lord and mislead Gods children. In Jesus name. AMEN
There are no heroes in the Bible besides Jesus. Charles Spurgeon, Wesley, etc. never prayed to be like anybody but Him. It’s not a special “anointing” they had, it’s the fervent prayer that the grace of God would make them more like Christ.
The annointing is the Holy Spirit that every believer receives in full portion the moment they believe. As a member of the Body of Christ you are sealed with the Spirit. That is your annointing. The old testament believers didnt have that, the Spirit came upon them, but never indwelled them. We dont need to go 'claim' what others had, we all ready have what they had...one in the same Spirit, one in the same annointing. If we can learn anything from these goldy people that went before us is to give God more of ourselves and let the Spirit move as He wills. Those men didnt have something we dont have, they just had a better understanding of how to use it to glorify God and expand His kingdom. Bethel promotes pagan practices like soaking, guided prayer, prophetic games like destiny cards and prophetic uno cards. The Lord said come out of her my people, lest you also be defiled.
Sounds like an attempt to clean-up a practice that they thought was uber cool until ppl started asking 'WTH are you doing?' Not a good explanation to say we don't teach grave sucking and then the lead pastor saying I've gone to graves, I've knelt down to pray [at the grave site], I've prayed to God to do it again...that sounds like an admission to the charge, not a refutation. What do u mean by do it again other than give me the anointing of the dead guy of whose grave I'm kneeling at. Very bizarre and unbiblical. That's what the occult does, not Christians. We are not metaphysicals or spiritualists. We follow the Word of God, not unholy practices beyond the scope of scripture.
@ vjazz79 Agree!!! 2 Corinthians 6:17 “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,” Before learning they were doing this demonic practice I went to their church to visit, went to a healing conference, watched his sermons, and loved the music (most of it) from Bethel. Now? No way. Staying far, far away from any church that does any practices like their "grave soaking". That will bring demons. After watching Jesus Christ set over 100 people free from demons... NO THANK YOU BETHEL!!!
Isaiah 8:19 When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?
Why kneel and humble yourself on a grave? Why looking for the Living among the dead? Why honouring so called saints and not worship Christ Jesus in Spirit and truth?
He wasn't saying he kneeled and humbled himself before a grave. He was at a grave and felt the Holy Spirit's presence and felt led to kneel and humble himself before God, while at the grave. Quit mincing his words
I thank God He opened my eyes to the NAR movement - one I was deeply involved in. They scream freedom but the delivery is far from it. Finally found true freedom in the Gospel. 🙌🏼
Bingo! Interviewer states we don’t teach that, I’ve never, ever….Bill Johnson…..I talked about it 20 years ago….I’m creating a museum for dead people…etc
@@shan3671 No, but if Bethel is involved you can never know how they’ll use it! They have so much unbiblical practices already. Are you not the least worried about how they would misuse a museum from dead leaders of the faith? Their pastor states he’s an apostle, the gold dust sham, puppets prophet, high view of man low view of God gospel, etc…
@@gkrazy4ver I’m sure they would say that you are unbiblical in your beliefs. Thankfully, we are not saved by having the most correct theology. I just don’t see where praying at a gravesite (to God, not to the dead person) or thinking that you see gold dust disqualifies you for salvation. However, in Galatians chapter 5, Paul speaks about people “falling away from grace”. He’s not talking about sinners, he’s talking about people who have become self-righteous and legalistic. I’m sure you have some great arguments about why the Bethel folks are heretics, but be careful about looking down on people because they don’t have a beautiful liturgy, or hold the “correct” view of some secondary doctrine.
It's ok, we can still let Paul Washer loose on them. He can launch an emotional strike and Voddie Baucham can come in with the physical strike. Then John MacArthur will come to console.
I don't see an answer as to why his wife was laying on a grave, asking for a dead person's power, and speaking to the camera as if it was her own produced video. She wasn't caught by mistake. Where does this doctrine even come from? Does Christ suggest that we are to hang out in grave yards... no, he's the God of the LIVING (Mark 12:27). Does God's Word suggest we spend our time searching out anything we want or desire, or chasing after the heart of God and what HE wants and desires. We're told to pursue God, and even Spiritual Gifts, but these things are CLEARLY listed in scripture, so why on earth would you want to take spiritual risks? Doesn't the bible show us that spiritualists seek the dead? Even the demon-possessed? Like the demoniac of Mark 1. This appears to be another case of poor leadership at Bethel. I don't know what's happening right now, but pray for conviction for them.,
Not defending the idea of grave soaking - as I'm doubtful anyone recent has been annointed enough to make this even remotely useful - but do you know why the vatican calls the main church St Peters Basilica ? Give you a hint .... somone is burried under it named Peter .... you might have heard of him. Thats where the Christian traditiont of patron saints for Churches comes from. All early Christian churches were built over the graves of the deceased saints - starting with the 11 apostles. All 11 have churches built over their graves as do pretty much every single recognized Christian" saint". The catholics did it. The orthodox did it and the Protestants did it too. To this day every single altar in a catholic church contains at minimum 2 bones/relics from a dead saint so that the mass is literally celebrated "on the bones of the saints". Just pointing out - this isn't even remotely weird for Christianity. Its basically normal they did this in all the major denominations for literally 2000 years and in actual fact newer churches like Bethel are probably the only Christian churches that don't get the bodies of these types of people and literally bury them under the church or distribute their bones to be placed in the altar or as relics in the church. If I was a bethel leader I would have maybe pointed this out - as it seems like most people from traditional denominations pointing fingers don't actually know what their own Christian denomination does with the dead bodies of their past annointed leaders who have died. The traditional denominations are way weirder then this - go look at a Catholic alter - all of them have a dead saints bones or relics in it. :)
@@David-_-_- "All early Christian churches were built over the graves of the deceased saints - starting with the 11 apostles." Isn't that an obviously false statement given that churches existed when the apostles were alive? Then, when you add that persecution didn't stop for 300 years after their deaths, means that churches would not have been built on their graves for 300 years, until it was safe to do so. EVEN THEN, where they are buried would have become a tradition at that poin,t which would like have had disagreement. It seems like, despite you saying you're not defending grave soaking...you kind of are. You seem to be suggesting if someone had been "anointed enough" then some kind of power could be absorbed/drawn/recovered/imparted/(choose your own word) from their corpse? Therefore, this is why early Christians supposedly built their churches on the graves of saints. Now, I agree with you, especially in the dark ages/medieval era, the idea of the bones of saints having power existed (St. Cuthbert for example). However, these are later religious developments, not from the beginning.
He says they never called it grave sucking. He said what he really did, which we all know means he really went out there to get the deceased’s “anointing “. He was grave sucking.
When powerless toolish denominations claim something completely wrong so people who are bringing God's love have to address their foolish ignorance, they have failed miserably. Then there's serial nerderers who try post mic drops under a pseudonym but it fails so bad its more like a deuce drop- that's this guy. He is the Dwight of the hate-gospel.
False teachings: Bill Johnson:”god told me: if you honor these (dead ) men I will give you their anointing “ This is wrong on so many levels.... nothing biblical about that . Very deceived / deceiving.
@@1srael5haw because anointings are for each individual different. IT has to do with the Personal and natural Gifts that a Person has. Also his Charakter, personality , Temperament...IT is totally Personal and unique. Adding that Anointings are gotten by seeking Jesus on a very personal level of intimacy. When Bill believes that He can get anointing from an old Champion in faith by just laying on his grave...this is a very, very shallow view of things, ignorant and completely wrong, considering how unique and different people are. Pay the price and get your own anointing BY JESUS.
@@ComeOutOfHerMyPeople So I agree we should go directly to God for annointing where ever we can. But at the same time its clear God often chooses individuals who are mature and responsible enough to receive much larger annointings of the Holy Ghost then others. These people are then used as "conduits" or "channels" for the spirit to work on earth. Thats what happened at Pentacost in the Upper room. Thats what happened with Paul. Then instead of the holy Ghost falling directly from heaven on everyone these people were instead traveling and laying hands on people to transmit the holy ghost from themselves onto others. In Acts(Acts 19:12) its written that Paul's annointing with the spirit was so strong - he could heal people who were unable to visit him by simply giving his clothing items - hankerchief or apron - to a family member and they would take it to the ill person who could not meet him and the spirit on the clothing item was enough to heal them and cast out demons. Similar to the woman who touched the hem of Jesus garment. Just coming into contact with the spirit is all thats needed and its shown that it can be transmitted through objects and in the prophet Elishas case even remained on his body after he died and was able to restore a dead man to life. Why didn't God simply give them the holy spirit ? Why did he choose these conduits to deliver the spirit ? Why in the case of the woman witht he issue of bleeding or the sick who could not travel to the apostles did God not simply send his spirit from heaven ? I can't answer this for certain but my inference is God wants us humans to participate in the work of salvation and the distribution of the spirit. He doesn't just want to "zap" everyone from heaven. He wants people to dedicate themselves to God - so they become conduits and do his work on eath. "The harvest is ripe - but the workers are few". Additional it seems he requires people to "put in real concerted effort" to get their healing\annointing. Often they must perform an earnest act of repentance. The paralized man through the cieling - the caanite woman he challenges. God seems to respond to and reward acts of great perserveriance to receive healing and the spirit now I'm not sure he would consider "grave soaking" the best way to go about it - but I genuinely think he would be impressed at the desire and effort to come in contact with the spirit even if I agree its probably not a very intelligent way to go about it. But God rewards "faith" and when we keep seeking him he will reward us with his presence.
@Joe MacNeill Where does the Bible say that no man can improve upon the Holy Spirit residing in us? Of course the Holy Spirit is gift that only come from God, but we see many places in scripture where the Holy Spirit is given to someone through the laying on of hands. So God definitely uses people to give the Holy Spirit. Jesus even gave us the example by being baptized by John before the Holy Spirit descended on him.
I’m just wondering if your lack of “interfering” with students’ misinterpretations is actually a form of having bad boundaries as a leader. I would think as a student, I’d rather know what boundaries I should follow instead of being allowed to wander the supernatural as I please simply because you don’t want to pacify my passion
I can understand why you would also allow students to be innovative and be used in New and creative ways also. There just needs to be a balance and that should always hang on the Word. But I think, if the boundaries are the Word as they should be. As leaders they should be giving their students the coloring crayons, so to speak, and showing them how to use them, but not telling them what colors they should choose to use. God is a pretty creative, innovative Guy. Bethel trys to cultivate a spirit of creativity. I admire promoting that type of freedom to innovate. Even when they fall on their face sometimes. Cuz to be honest, nobody knows to the maximum degree exactly what the boundaries and guidelines are to the T. We are all growing together in our relationship and understanding of God, His Spirit and His Ways. And it continues to suprise us! Which to me was one lesson Jesus was teaching when He rubbed mud in the blind man's eyes. "You never know what I am going to do next or how I am going to do it. So just be humble."
The only one worth seeking out and giving honor to is God! We must be so careful to not give glory and attention to man. Receiving the anointing doesn't come from honoring man, and it never will. It is Jesus we should follow and seek with our whole heart, soul, and mind.
I'm not associated with Bethel - but this isn't even close to weird when compared to what other denominations do. What denomination are you ? Do you know literally every single catholic altar has a special compartment where they place the bones and relics of dead "saints". They literally dig up the dead bodies - distribute the bones and then place them into the altars as part of the concecration process. Every single altar - even for new churches today - have dead peoples bones and or their possessions placed in them. Most traditional denominations also built the major churches over the graves of important saints. Eg: Saint Peters Basilica in the vatican ..... is literally Peter the apostles Tomb. Most big Christian churches in Europe are built on a saints tomb. The catholics, orthodox and protestants all did this for basically the last 2 millenia. Much of what is practiced in tradtitional christian churches makes this look super tame. Have you ever been to an orthodox church and watched them praying while touching the "sacred relics" ?
@@David-_-_- Your talking about the Catholic Church. Bethels grave soaking . Both are listed as heretical in the scriptures. They are lying about grave soaking.. They’ve removed their pictures, but nothing is ever removed from the net.
@Conservative Mama I'm sure you'd say the same thing about the Book of Acts when Holy Spirit came like a wind if there had been video cameras. Those in the Upper Room went on to perform miracles and build the Church. The Scoffers just went on to scoff.
I looked at several videos where Bill is answering questions about Grave soaking and I believe he is not advocating praying to saints or asking for their anointing but more praying to God to do again what he has done before through these saints. I do not understand why he feels he has to go to their graveside but I also know when we visit a friend's or family members grave it stirs in us emotions that we don't experience when we are sitting at home. Not defending, but praying that if there is something demonic going on, God will reveal it to Bill and his staff. We on the other hand should be praying not crucifing our brothers and sisters in Christ. The only one winning when we bad mouth our fellow believers is satan.
Anointing comes from God, not from people. we are just vessels of God. We should always base our conviction from the Holy Spirit AND the WORD OF GOD. Conviction and earthly wisdom can be confusing,. And the " lead of the Holy Spirit" can lead other Christians to rely on their own understanding instead of praying and relying on God's Word.
My perception is that Wesley, Whitfield, and Finney are revered at Bethel because they drew crowds and spoke about experiencing God. Mostly I feel that What they taught is largely ignored at Bethel.
When I asked Father about grave sucking, He said, "I didn't call you to play with dead things." I believe there's a spirit of error in Bethel since leadership started to engage in this dangerous spiritual folly. Honoring the saints of old is fine but that is all that is necessary, folks. Use your excess money to help the senior citizens in your area and single mothers. Do the gospel now and stop worshiping the dead.
@@annacullen3096 what he said they do and what they actually do is not the same thing. I implore you to carefully disect what they are actually saying here, and not what they want you to hear. They admit to thinking these places have some spiritual power that can be imparted to them through touch. They admit to someone they know having had an supernatural experience at a grave of a believer that was famous, thus in turn making those student want to go there too to try and replicate said experience.(and why is no one asking what in the world he was doing at that grave in the first place? What are they,bethel student/bill's wife, doing in graveyards in the first place, laying on graves, if not to somehow connect to the dead? Which is strictly forbidden by God). He admits to thinking it strange but also not discouraging his students bc hey, he doesnt want to keep them from trying different things and missing out. It's all about feelings and experiences with them, it superceeds clear instructions in the bible. For instance, you shall not worship like the pagans do, or the hidden knowledge belongs to God. I pray you ask the Lord to show you the deception of bethel. Just because they are nice people and the feelings they evoke in others through their music and supernatural experiences make people feel great, doenst mean it's the truth of God. We should desire the truth of God above all else, especially above supernatural experiences. Blessed are those who do not see and still believe. Blessings!
You had to ask God about Necromancy, because His word isn't good enough for you?! WELL ARNT YOU BLESSED THAT HE EVEN ANSWERED YOU.... I WOULDNT GET AWAY WITH SUCH THINGS WITH GOD.... AND THAT JUST PROVES HOW MERCIFUL AND GRACIOUS HE REALLY IS!
Teaching Satannic Practices in the Name of God is called FRAUD and it's a Crime... MIX IT IN WITH ALL THE OTHER ORGANISED CRIME COMMITTED BY THESE CHURCHES AND THEIR god TRUMP, AND YOU GET CHARGES THAT QUALIFY UNDER RICO.... WHERE IS THE LAW?!
Haha, I can try (did 3 years at BSSM) but this is not a representative answer for the church. Throughout the Bible we see God's people and prophets do certain acts as God does his miracles. Moses is for example asked to strike a rock to make water flow out. Jesus put mud on a blind man's eyes and he was healed. Daniel prayed and fasted for 21 days until Michael came and freed Gabriel from the prince of Persia. Joshua and the Israelites walked around Jericho a bunch before the walls crumbled to dust. None of these natural, physical acts had any power to accomplish the miracle. Obviously! However, when the action is ordained by God to be done in such and such a way, obedience to that instruction is what God demands for the miracle to take place. I don't perfectly know why, but I believe God sees our hearts, obedience, willingness to risk looking stupid, faith and our practical action is an expression of that faith. As for the Gandalf-instance, I'm 90% sure the lady felt like she received such an instruction from God, that doing that would have some sort of spiritual impact on the powers and principalities perpetuating racism in America. I don't understand it, and the Bible doesn't give many details about spiritual warfare, but obedience to God's promptings is generally a safe bet. Worst case scenario, you look a little stupid :)
The problem is, you, as in Bill or Dan may not be doing it. But I was best friends with a LEADER who took 10 people on a trip to Smith Wigglesworths grave where they laid on it and asked God to give them his mantle. So the issue becomes that people in your leadership are promoting and doing this very thing. I was a member of Bethel for years. And I can attest that at no point was there a teaching to NOT do that. I think things do need to be addressed. And corrected so people stop doing that.
You shouldn’t need to lay on dead men of God’s graves in order to get an anointing…. All you need to do is repent of your sins, take up your cross and follow Jesus. Then trust that God will place you in your calling. You don’t need another mans anointing.
First of all, Elijah was still ALIVE when Elisha asked for a double portion of his spirit...not the anointing. Two different things. Plus God gave it to him not Elijah...Elijah said, "If you see me when I am taken up from you, you will have it, if not, you won't." But only God can give it folks!
With a deliverance I had of self loathing I felt a pulling up of something in my spirit. And it reminded me that the Lord said leave the tares to me. It was so wonderful to feel so good after so many years. And I was a born again Christian for over 30 years. I’m convinced Christians can need deliverance
Straight up was me as well, I’m on the younger side, 16 currently turning 17. I was in a church, and I fell into bad habits because of issues, and earlier this year I was getting delivered March 9th. So I’m convinced that a Christian can have a demon and be oppressed and they can be in ministry and not know and of course need deliverance.
@@luv2travel2000 2 of the worst false deliverance teachers you have named there. Not one verse in the bible supports the idea that Christians require deliverance from demons. Quite the opposite actually. To say that diminshes Christ's work on the cross for our sins.
@@danielkambur1560 can you point out specific scriptures in the bible where Christians were delivered from demons? Was the death of Jesus on the cross not powerful enough for you? How can God and a demon reside in the same place together?
I think Bill needs to do one of these sit downs and discuss " Physics of heaven" Melissa Dougherty has interviews discussing chapters from the book and she really does make it sound like Bill Johnson and others from Bethel that wrote this book are getting into New Age practices. I love listening to Bill Johnson's teachings from The Word of God but these teachings in this book need to be addressed.
Yep. Its a very well done and delivered talk that she did on the book. Bethel Bill is a fully false teacher. The list of deception and false teaching is long and deep. For people who dont know the scriptures, this stuff can seem rational and reasoned. This series of videos will indict these people and expose them and their false teaching to unknowing people who might have otherwise fallen for these falsehoods
Other people have done in-depth analyses on that book. It’s just too extensive and thorough to be taken out of context. There’s no way he could explain away the findings of Melissa et al. His views are problematic at best.
They do need to be addressed because Bill dabbled into a lot of unbiblical things there. The simple test for this is to open the Bible and show us where these practices are written in scripture. That was Melissa’s point, and she’s been in the New Age before. So the claim that these practices were stolen from Christianity is a lie because no one opens the Bible to prove it. We really need to Read the Bible.
You shouldn't listen to him. He tells about 80 truth to make the 20 blasphemy go down more smoothly. Satan himself told mostly truths in the garden. It's the lie that makes the poison.
I’m not sure exactly what you’re trying to say by this verse, but remember that many people came to Jesus for miracles and he performed them. Many people in the Bible asked God to perform signs for them and he did: Moses before the burning bush, Gideon with his fleece, Hezekiah with his shadow. And the Bible encourages us to seek God’s power in our own lives “earnestly desire the spiritual gifts”. Seek to understand the heart of God in scripture.
@@1srael5haw Jesus didn't come to "perform miracles for people." He came to die for our sins - which is the only miracle that we need to care about. Therein lies the problem with Bethel. Bethel is obsessed with power. I really urge you to read where they got their wacky doctrines from- like Bob Jones (who told women to get nude to receive a prophecy) and people like William Branham and the new order of the latter rain. These doctrines are just being re-hashed for the people now who don't bother to read up on their ungodly demonic origins.
@@1srael5hawFALSE TEACHERS, CHARLATANS, SORCERERS and all kinds of other sources can do miracles too. The heart of God through scripture is to REVEAL CHRIST. What is revealed has been WRITTEN. READ IT.
Spurgeon and Whitfield preached mostly about repentace and sin. That’s why revival happend in their generation. Bethel doesnt! They worship their supernarural experience instead.
I feel like this could've been a simple "no" moment. "No, we don't do that." Simple. 3 minute video. I feel all this is doing is digging a deeper hole and not actually answering the question.
It sounds like Beni was responding to what God was doing in the moment, during her time with him, but not specifically to soak something from the grave. Could have been a symbolic thing perhaps. It's entirely possible she doesn't even know. I've not seen the photo and I'm not a Bethel super fan or anything, just a Jesus follower trying to make sense of that question.
It’s pretty clear from the context what happened, she was in a graveyard for the reasons that Bill mentioned, and received a prompting from the Holy Spirit to lie down. If what you seek is information that would make lying on a grave sound less bizarre then I think you’re out of luck here, and to be a little blunt, there’s really no reason for you or anyone else to expect that
Matthew 5:1-20 1And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes. 2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.
@@RorySRussell I am thinking about all the scriptures about the grave and I totally agree with you on this. Still looking in the bible where we believers pray at the grave to get one's or the anointing.
Our life as born again Christian, is to discipline ourself to wake up early to be in prayer and the Word of God before the busyness of the day(1 Peter 1). This is how we put our whole armor of God to stand in the evil day. Eph.6:10-18
Ughhh. For Bill, anything goes, as long as someone is "hungry for God" and they were apparently led by the Holy Spirit. That's so dangerous! And frustrating because he can excuse any behavior away by making that claim...
If you guys were there in Jesus’ time, you sure would have been part of the Pharisees. I wonder if you really what the Bible is about. Christianity is cheapened because of we the so called Christians. You need Jesus
@@avidcreation6407 If I was Bethel I would have pointed out the practices of many other denominations which go far beyond this just so people are aware of what happens in their own faith. In Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches they traditionally built churches on top of their deceased annointed leaders tombs "saints". Most major churches in Europe are literally the tombs of saints. EG: Saint Peters basilica - thats built on Peters tomb like most major churches. Additionally the catholic church exhumes the bodies of those they recognize as saints - then distributes the bones to be placed into altars. Every catholic altar has a special compartment where they place the bones and relics from dead saints before it is concecrated for use. Almost no catholic I know realizes this - but every altar has a dead persons bones and posessions in it. The orthodox church sets up sites in the church for bones and relics where people come and touch them and pray. Its really only newer more modern churches from the last 50 odd years that dont do these practices Bethel is decidedly tame compared to the major denominations and what they do with the dead bodies of past "saints". Like he said - they don't teach or encourage this - but at least he can see the people who did it are hungry for the holy spirit. They did it because they thought this person was touched by Gods spirit and I want to be close to that.
@@adoretoutlemonde8 The interviewer said that. But Bill Johnson did mention that he talked about visiting the grave of deceased leaders of the faith. Why would they even be talking about this topic if not because this is about their rebranding campaign over topics that have cause huge backlash in previous years? Don’t check your brain at the door. Bill admitted to going to grave sites for the purpose of honoring the dead and there at that place he would ask God for the same grace those dead individuals had when they were alive. Hence the name grave soaking. He has influenced ppl to do the same. Weather you believe he is right or wrong, I just wanna know where in the word of God do we see this practice? Is my question offensive? Why is the herald of God even sharing some personal practice at the office of a biblical teacher when it is NOT a practice found in the scriptures? Why are there many who would document themselves doing such practices? I find it interesting and am merely curious to understanding.
Sounds very similar to the view of the Saints in Catholicism.. I don’t want Spurgoens or Wesleys anointing. I want Jesus’ anointing. And I’ve never read a scripture that suggested that we regard the anointing of men in such a high regard, or to chase an identity of men rather than the Jesus that gave them their own unique identity and anointing, whom also desires to give us our own.
@@marleneholloway7775 I still enjoy Bethel and really glean from their willingness to abandon the common facade of religious perfection for genuine pursuit
@@pastorjonathan4300 Elisha had to ask for a man’s anointing. We, under a new covenant are now in Christ. Elisha did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as we do either.. Which is why Jesus said that prophets like John the Baptist would even be least in the Kingdom, because they had God on them.. we have God IN us. We can do better than basing our New covenant on the examples of the Old one, or begging for anointing, or wishing for another man’s portion, because we have been invited into something much much greater.
Grandma needs healing; Yesterday she was taken to an ambulance at 4:30a.m. Because her heart is swollen. which i thought wasn't that bad until my mom told me about her having lots of confusion. So because she was confused my mom told her what to do ,and when she told Grandma to just suck on a straw. she said, "i can't" that moves me to ask for your prayer. So if this moved you even a little pray for my grandma Joy Levine to be healed in her body and soul. And get others too God bless THanks soo much
I would love to listen to Bill answering the questions without interruptions, the interview would be much better if the interviewer wouldn't interrupt so often - he talkes much more than Bill, that is really sad!
I don't think this is a Biblical attitude... yes God can defend his people and ultimately we do rely on God for everything, but we also have a responsibility to respond to criticism... 1 Peter 3:15 says "in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect." ... further more you see Paul reasoning with people in Athens the had idols in Acts 17... certainly there are some arguments not worth having... and yes there were times when God used miricles to reveal himself, even through the pophets and the apostles, but I think we should still be prepared to give a defense... so when I hear him say things like what he says at 5:30 ... it's very concerning to me
No pickles, if it didn’t and doesn’t happen, and powerless morons say it did cuz they don’t listen to words to learn, its not anything. But, you wouldn’t know the difference anyway.
@@LarrySanger Dude. Imagine you had to make a case in Heaven, and that what you repeat and spread is presented before God who knows the actions, responses, and hearts of all of the players-and present it here. If not, better keen with Kingdom talk. Get it? This means: A) what exactly do you claim went on? B) by whom? C) when? D) was something taught as a doctrine? When and where? E) how have claims been addressed within the last 30 years about it? For you to accuse and criticize the most influential move of God today without actual clear thought and sound judgment is how you can tell that the enemy is whispering in your ear. (As you research, you will find that what is said in the response videos are true, and the concept was both misreported and misrepresented, and it was rejected immediately. Also, check the fellows in your bed-are they they same ones who criticize anything Pentecostal/Charismatic? Do they speak bad of exorcism? Doubt healing? Do they preach the poverty gospel? Are they heresy hunters with no grace, forgiveness, or patience with people from different cultures and denominations? That should clue you in. Do they have a sin-seared consciousness, pointing out sins in others? Do they think their mandate is to point out wolves, even though they don’t exhibit any Holy Spirit New Covenant power in their ministries? These are the signs that they are stuck on works, and think their doctrine saves them, and that the devil is just manipulating their biases and weaknesses to attempt to minimize the work of any who are doing actual Kingdom ministry. Don’t be like them. You have a higher calling. )
Grave soaking??? "Why seek ye the living among the dead (James 24:5)?" "neither shall ye set up any image of stone...to bow down unto it (Lev 26:1)." "And whosoever toucheth...a grave, shall be unclean (Num 19:16)." "in the grave who shall give thee thanks (Ps 6:5)?" "Giving honor where honor is due...that Moses would no longer be the high water mark (Lakeland Todd Bentley prophesy June 24, 2008)."
Why would we need the grace and the anointing of the dead. We all have a unique anointing that was given to us by God. Why mess with Gods perfection 🤦♀️
This is weird and not biblical at all. Let the dead bury the dead. We have no business with the dead. Plain and simple. We need to focus on teachings that are purely biblical, and follow the steps of Jesus and He alone. I'm dedicated to doing this through my ministry.
Challenge to Bethel followers: Daily read and study God’s Word, watch both American Gospel videos (full movies) - and don’t attend meetings, listen or watch anything Bethel related for one month. This challenge is a hard one. His Word will expose things.
Yall are fools if yall are goin to look past this as well as the “christian terro cards” the “ honey hole” thing the scandals of stealing peoples money and spending it on affluent lives and things. not only this but its like if people have an explanation to the worst thing they can accept the other things without concern you are a fool if you feel this stuff is alright this church is full of demonic references and all kind of other heathenry they had a gay cowboy on stage naked. they compare biblical references to witchcraft they said “on earth as it is in heaven” and said thats the same as the demonic sayin “as above so below” . everyone is saying celebrities are devil worshipers and always throwin up the 3 6’s and spells in their song and all of a sudden they all show up in one church. You all will burn in hell not because you died and couldnt make it but because you are witches and are tripping up Gods people who are willing to give their life to God but you mislead them to a place where they think these things are okay . The bible says many will perish for the lack of knowledge. People please check into every single thing i said and seeeeeeee i pray god open eyes and i pray he give you the overwhelming evidence you need to leave thos chirch and turn away and really seek god not this wickedness i pray by the power of the Holy Spirit he open youre hearts to truth and close them to wickedness once you see the lies they tell and if you dont that you will be willing pray for an answer from god the one and only living God and that when you ask you can mever un hear the words he says. I plead the blood of jesus against any mind that is has been tricked by their wickedness and ask god himself to send the holy spirit and its power to war against all false doctrine. I pray eyes are opened to truth. And hearts and minds are willing to seek truth that they may leave wherever they are to find you able to leave freely and willingly breaking all contracts with satan and any form of demonic right that may be left over any legal right or promise that the devil may have any door that may be open any strong hold shall be broken in kesus mighty name amen
You study these men, read their sermons, teach the revelation that they had, but the anointing of the Holy Spirit is the max. In the OT anointing could be doubled, but the Holy Spirit came (to stay) on the day of Pentecost, and you cannot double Him.
I actually agree with you. I thought about what you said and remembered John 3:34, “For the One whom God had sent [Jesus] speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.” (NIV)
I loved watching this! I never thought you guys believed in “grave sucking”, because I trust the DNA of how your church pursues God. What I loved the most is watching an engaged conversation, with genuine grace in the face of an intentional misrepresentation. Just another way I want to grow in my own walk to be more like Jesus! Love you guys! From Alberta, Canada 🇨🇦
He's lying through his teeth. Their website literally has a deleted link to grave soaking. And they have many heretical doctrines at Bethel aside from that.
I'm an usher at my church. A few months ago, I was praying before service and I felt drawn to a particular chair in a particular section. I felt like the Holy Spirit wanted me to lay hands on the empty chair, so I did... Later on in service, the man who sat in that chair responded to the altar call and gave his life to Jesus.... You never know what a seemingly foolish or unnecessary act of obedience can do.
Kris totally different then getting on a plane....flying to a particular graveyard...going to a specific grave and laying on it. It was not a random grave.
@@Kris77777 Romans 10 is clear on how people get saved. It's not by your lying of hands on chairs and to add to that, have you ever seen an "altar call" in the Bible?
@@me4019 hi there. I'll continue to do as I feel led. One thing I'm learning is that in my effort to be childlike and teachable, I have to stop trying to 'parent myself' and look to the Lord instead. As far as people giving their lives to the Lord is concerned, I think it's awesome for them to be born again when the pastor invites them to at the altar call. Jesus said that the wind blows where it wishes, so is everyone who is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus had no scriptural context for being born again, despite all of his years of study, but he chose to listen to Jesus anyway. To add more of a plot twist, Jesus points to Himself as the Son of Man, who was to be lifted up just like the serpent in the wilderness was lifted up by Moses. Nicodemus admittedly just thought Jesus was a good Rabbi who did miracles and signs and taught truth... Although Nicodemus didn't understand, or subscribe to Jesus's interpretation of that event, that didn't stop him from putting his trust in Jesus. He judged Jesus based on the fruit of His life. My point is, whether or not you think that I was being led by the Spirit is unknown, but you can judge by the fruit. What was my intention / motive in praying over that seat? Was it self serving or in service to God? What was the result of that event? Etc.... This is how we exercise discernment. Having our senses trained... Hebrews 5:14. Being suspicious of something you don't know or understand isn't discernment, it's the manifestation of something else. I hope this helps 💕 Bless you.
I'm shocked by the comments in this thread! Did we all watch the same video?! I feel like all the Critics are viewing through a lens of suspicion and fear.
We’re watching through the lense of God’s word. Nothing they said was actually biblical. They’re basically experimenting with things, and seeing how it goes. Hmmm...seems legit. 🤔
I actually was hearing from a place of hopefulness. I knew Bill Johnson way back in the day... before Bethel. I had a great deal of admiration for him and learned a lot from him.. I was hoping that what I had "heard" about this grave stuff was some misguided exaggeration. I have heard critics of charismatic ministries with whom I absolutely disagree and I was really hopeful. And people doctor videos all the times these days, so I was open to the idea that allegation by video might not be proof. But while I have no problem with honoring God's Generals of the past, learning from their lives and witness, even asking God for an impartation of their anointing in our day... I have not seen in scripture [nor did they offer any] anything which suggests God-seeking or God-centered activity at graves would be God-authored. And since there are many scriptures to the contrary, I could not trust any claim that the Holy Spirit is guiding something which contradicts the written Word of God....and certainly no behaviors or spiritual experiences being exalted above the Word of God. So despite my hopefulness -- the only reason I even clicked on the video - I do not find what Bill shared biblically credible... which saddens me. And will cause me to pray for course correction before it's too late.
Pastor Bill even said..”there are huge Mantels that were upon these deceased preachers that are just laying there idol.. so they go to the graves to ‘soak up’ or absorb that mantel that’s been left on the table..”?? If Father God wanted2 give you a specific mantel… don’t you think He’d have given it directly TO you? Why would He expect us to go to graveyards to ‘soak up’ the leftover mantels from preachers passed on? It just doesn’t feel like God.. but hey- what do I know..
@@uke7084 I think Saul grew impatient by seeking a medium even after he cut them off from his land to speak to Samuel who was deceased for advice but was horrified to hear he too would be with Samuel too.. the lord said speaking to the dead was an abomination. Saul wanted a prophecy of what’s to come and was given words that’s gave him fear the word of God say he hasn’t given us the spirit of fear but of love, power, and of sound mind what he did was consort dark spirits to reach the dead.
@@glencabbage52 It is blatantly obviously that you sir are nothing more than a religious gadfly just passing through looking for a morsel of dung. Had you spent any quality time actually soaking in what the Spirit is saying through Bethel you would know the teaching at Bethel is rock solid. Really you would...
@@mikedavis1069 This rubbish is at best, anti-scriptural, and otherwise very close to demonic. The mysticism you try to pass off as Christianity has no place in a true, Biblical, New Testament church.
@@mikedavis1069 Given that this isn't from God, I'm happy to be "missing" out on it. The Bible says to be "sober and vigilant" and to not get entangled with mysticism and superstitions. Bethel "Church" has spit in the face of those admonitions and run headlong into unBiblical and foolish practices. You have replaced the truth of God with the lies of your emotions.
How about honoring these Godly men by bringing their preaching back- the sermons set in the Holy Word!! This is what these men, filled with the Holy Spirit, brought.
This is why I love the leadership of Bethel - you respond to imperfect people and our imperfect ways with wisdom and graciousness. Thank you for representing the Lord and the church so well.
Please watch RUclips video Hit The Bar Episode 21: Charismatic Day of Infamy. Essentially, in this video mentioned above, you see that Johnson prophesied that Bentley would have a greater ministry than Moses and was this incredible man of God that was going to change the world. When word got out about Bentley's adultery, abuse and alcoholism, and none of the prophesies came true, Johnson, instead of admitting he made a mistake, continued to endorse him and support him publicly without calling him to repentance. The video will flesh out any further questions, I highly reccommend it!
I’d like to ask when was the last time you prayed for Todd ? Yes everyone knows what happened but it breaks my heart that not only him but many would come back to sonship in Christ.
@@Straightfromshibuya Excellent question! Glad you brought that up. It is so important to pray for those who are caught in sin or false teaching to repent and return to Christ, and I pray frequently for Bentley, Bethel Church and others in my life who are on similar paths. However, as Christians, we are not inly called to compassionately and earnestly pray for those brothers & sisters, we are also called to speak biblical truth into their lives. Love isn't always fluffy and feel goody. Love sometimes looks like calling your brother to repentance and speaking the hard truth.
@@marinavanderwindt875 I do agree with you, and I’m positive people close to him are speaking the truth in love. Our “valiant” online efforts for preaching our version of truth without being in people’s lives is where I think we fail. It’s highly unlikely that my questions toward public figures or organizations will be answered personally in the comment section by Todd or Bethel or anyone else. It also speaks to discipleship as if I have the opportunity to do life with Bill then I have the privilege to speak in his life and vice versa. However I don’t have that privilege I do however have a direct line to God through Christ to intercede on what burdens my heart.
I appreciate Bethel's desire to try and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and sometimes it gets messy. The alternative of walking in the Spirit is walking in the flesh and my fear is that there is a whole group of Christians who are afraid to step out of their comfort zone to be led by the Holy Spirit. A nonbeliever once said to me, if your God is so powerful ask Him to let me win the big bingo jackpot that night. My immediate reaction was, the bible says don't tempt the Lord but as I was walking away I felt the Spirit say go back and pray that God would demonstrate His power to that man and he would win that jackpot. The next morning to everyone's amazement Donald had won that jackpot and as a result, he gave his heart to the Lord and the fear of God fell all over the warehouse and many more people were saved! As we step out of our comfort zone that is where the Holy Spirit often times will be there to accomplish the miraculous! Be Led By The Holy Spirit!
Hahahahaha. I love how God is willing to allow us to be offended at His ways.... That will crucify the prideful pharisee in us if we allow it to... Imagine, God has a covenant with mankind that they refuse to keep, so He becomes a Man and fulfills the whole thing Himself. Lol! What a slice of humble pie that must have been.
“Just as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth. They are men who are corrupt in mind and worthless in regard to the faith.” 2 Timothy 3:8 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.” - Mark 13:21-23 False signs and wonders will FLOURISH. The New Testament is flooded with warnings about it. DO NOT BE DECEIVED
@@Kris77777 you people have NO IDEA the sin of the Pharisees. But you reference them a lot and accuse people of being Pharisees because they appeal to scripture, while saying don’t judge. Isn’t that a judgment? The Pharisees practiced Hypocrisy, twisting of Scripture for their own traditions, self-aggrandizement, and rejection of the simple Gospel of Jesus. Jesus didn’t have an issue with them because they studied scripture and corrected people based on it. It was because they twisted scripture. I’m so tired of this cognitive dissonance among believers. “I have applied these things to myself and Apollos because of you, brothers and sisters, so that through us you may learn “not to go beyond what is written,” so that none of you will be puffed up in favor of the one against the other.” 1 Corinthians 4:6 Is Paul also a Pharisee? Saying that something is written in the Bible does not mean it is. Open the Bible and quote the scripture. The Bible is no longer being taught in some of these churches and believers are beginning to hate scripture. Because their leaders tell them the letter killeth. Except of course they are the ones quoting it out of context. No understanding of what “the letter killeth” even means in context.
That's what my husband and I were just talking about. They have skated across the topic for over a decade now yet this is all he comes up with.😥.....I really want Bethel to change and be a true light of Jesus because they do have great influence.
So Bill is saying we don’t teach grave soaking but then he goes on to say we really don’t try and stop anything and we believe there are past anointing we can get. I can see how students would be completely confused especially if they saw Beni’s pics laying on a grave and hugging another tombstone and all the comments from followers saying that they want to go to the gravesites like that and get anointings. Also, if they follow Ben Fitzgerald (and most everyone from bethel schools does) then that would really add to the confusion about grave soaking. Trying to look at this honestly and from someone on the outside who hears this and it sounds like they are saying we don’t grave suck, we just go to graves and we know past anointing s from these people are still available so we spend time there (sounds like grave soaking). I know it is hard to hear because we all have biases (some people love bill and would defend him to the death and others would come from not liking him and ready to jump on anything).
“There are anointings, mantles, revelations and mysteries that have lain unclaimed, literally where they were left, because the generation that walked in them never passed them on. I believe it’s possible for us to recover realms of anointing, realms of insight, realms of God that have been untended for decades simply by choosing to reclaim them and perpetuate them for future generations.” (Davis, 2012) Physics of Heaven - Bill Johnson
Maybe talking about a prophet passing on his blessing and power. Ala Elijah -> Elisha. Isaac -> Jacob etc. Prophetic blessing before death was very big in the bible. But note it was (usually) before death. Jesus of course being the exception.
@@xxstevenicholxx8732 So what if there is? Does one or two people's actions represent their entire church family? Take a look at their mission statement and find out what they believe about Jesus, the cross, and the resurrection. If the conclusion you reach after that doesn't lead to you considering them brothers and sisters in the Lord, I'm afraid you may be operating in the spirit of the accuser. If so, humble yourself and repent
@@cptredhorse5156 haha correction is biblical. 1 or 2 no. However enough video and still shots of several not 1 or 2 including Bills own wife haha repent. Good one
Oh, amen, amen, & a thousand more amens! I'm so glad ya'll made this video, cuz it really adds some blessed light on it all! Yeah, I heard some of the people, on RUclips, a year or two ago, demeaning Bethel for the "grave-soaking", & at first I kinda believed'em, & quit watching Bill Johnson's RUclips videos, & started watching them, instead... yet, after a week or two, I realized that they were always always CRITICIZING other people/places/practices... & it made my spirit weaker & more fear-based & all, & I realized that one of the things I've really liked about Pastor Johnson's sermons is that my spirit gets filled with hope & light & encouragement from them! Listening to ya'll is just too "real" to quit! And the things you were talking about, here, just seemed to so be re-enforced by what I was reading (& taking notes on), earlier tonight, in Romans 10! Thank ya'll so much! I totally bless ya'll, & may the blessings of the Lord be more so poured upon you all, too!
You are being deceived by Mr. Johnson. Have you ever watched American Gospel Christ Alone? It exposes a lot of Bill Johnsons disgusting practices and teachings.
@@lynnnnn3 My friend, I know the Scriptures you're referring to --- but I've found your NIV version to be WAYYYY FULLER OF ERRORS than my beloved human preachers! Just saying.
All the books in the New Testament with the exception of one is warning against deception and false teachings/teachers. Does it get you down when you read those versus that tell us to be vigilent and sober and that the devil comes as an angel of light and it is no wonder his ministers masquerade as ministers of light? Most of bethel's new age mystic teachings are unbiblical with an exceptipn of a few...but remember there is always real cheese in the rat trap. I pray you seek God's truth in His Word and not from mere men who has proven to be way of the map...as bill said, we should let the Spirit lead us off the map. Some spirit definitely lead him somewhere, but it doesnt line up with the word of God once and for all given to the saints. If the Word if God isnt the means by which we measure truth, then anytying goes...as bethel has proven. Prophetic uno cards,Destiny cards, sozo, need i list more? Its experience driven, it is not rooted in biblical instruction
Romans 14... All of it. Including: "Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord’s help, they will stand and receive his approval... So why do you condemn another believer? Why do you look down on another believer? Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God... Yes, each of us will give a personal account to God. So let’s stop condemning each other. Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not cause another believer to stumble and fall... For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. If you serve Christ with this attitude, you will please God, and others will approve of you, too. So then, let us aim for harmony in the church and try to build each other up."
Matthew 7:15-25 KJV Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Galatians 1:7-8 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Ephesians 5:11 Have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
SO many concerning things in this…..how they define “experiencing the Lord” is very telling in what they are seeking. It’s completely heretical and their opinions and trying to rationalize them. Goodness. It’s just so hard to hear these opinions and trying to call them of God. Leading so many people wrong. They will be accountable as we all will. I beg people to find a Bible exegeting church that can help them out of this. I can see right through these guys😞😫
I’m amazed by these comments. Every verse quoted is presented to confirm your decision that these men are operating in a contrary-to-scripture manner! I understand where you are coming from but your intent is not matching the results you desire. I was raised with a form of godliness that lacked power. I was searching for my promise of abundant living. I cried out for more and He answered me!! In the last 4 years, after following Jesus for 42 years, God has answered my cry for more. Here is what He is saying in a nut shell. Be still, repent, receive, discern, judge not, let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, I will never leave you or forsake you, be holy as I am holy, prophesy but desire the greater gift (LOVE), if you want to be great be a servant, consider it joy when encountering trials- you get the picture. The Spirit of God was given to us as a super force to live this obscure life! Please, before you you decide to unravel what you deem as twisted, ask the Holy Spirit any question you want with a humble heart and expect He will show you truth! Here is your litmus to discerning if it’s His voice 1. It will align with His WORD and 2. At first it likely will not sound like something your would say! Please! God is on the throne and He does whatever He pleases! Fear the Lord and resist evil! I love you brother’s and sisters. Please consider humbly asking for eyes that see and ears that hear what the Spirit is saying and doing. We are all chosen for such a time as this so be careful to live as wise and not unwise!!! Please!!
Very 'in house' interview guys 🤔 pastor & associate pastor in dialogue …. How do you reveal an objective perspective when you obviously support each other 100%. Not sure if there is any truth here ? Your bible is very clearly displayed on the table, yet you haven’t opened it once ?? or even referred to any verse that might support your teaching. Scripture is God's word that should be the clear reference given to support your teaching, not just stories about true & dedicated Christians who led revivals in the past. Very suspect ?? I would say Bethel is definitely verging on false doctrine ??
Love the way these two clowns attempt to dismiss their deception with laughter. Beni Johnson got promoted from part-time grave soaker to full-time grave soaker. You reap what you sow.
We will bow down and humble ourselves before a grave...smh... the presumption, double talk, and disorder elements have barred them from the thing they want. "We are not grave sucking" but we are going to these 'contact points' to get or experience God's pressence or anointing. Occasionally some lay on graves like his wife. No doubt there is this thought of Elisha's bones.
I certainly agree with you. The deception and blasphemy of Bethel, Johnson, Valloton, Furtick, Hillsong, and all the New Apostolic Reformation are used by Satan to derail the true believers.
I'm a Spirit filled tongue talking believer but I have to say Kylie I tend to agree with your general observation. I have noted recently believers in my camp putting to much emphasis ( I believe) on the supernatural manifestations or speaking continually on The Holy Spirit is saying this or that and not putting Jesus front and center, or first place. I have tried to tell a friend of mine Jesus must be exulted about everything and wanting or desiring spiritual manifestations and not staying consistently in The Word and focus on Jesus can lead to imbalance and error. Of course he didnt like it, believe it or listen to what I said. I really like some of Bill Johnson's sermons when I listen to them occasional on utube but if they are getting into grave sucking, soaking whatever is correct terminology then they are getting into error probably due to as you say an insatiable appetite for more. That's sad and dangerous. Many a fine man of God has gotten off into error by the end of their ministry, I think believing the whole time they were in the right.
@@patsyspell1126 and I agree 100% with your Statement. Actually, I'd make mention of Benny Hinn and His less positiv influence on Christianity. Approaches like "good morning Holy Spirit" but neglecting the example of simplicity and sincerity of the Lord Jesus. Mr. Hinn (I actually lose my appreciation for him) focus in Money making. I was in one of his cruzades here in Germany and was chocked by what He did. So...WHEN WE don't follow Jesus as disciples and carry our own Cross daily, but use the Holy Spirit to accommodate to a Life style that pleases ourselves and not the LORD on 1st place, WE are already in error and not following what Jesus tought us in the Gospels. Read John 8:31-32 for that. 🙂 Many Blessings to you wherever you are. 🙏🏻
@@gilsontopfstedt3554 thank you. I agree with all you have said. It takes to long to write all our thoughts and opinions but there are several TV preachers that I do not watch because simply put I just do not bare witness with them. Some of them are Bennie Hinn, Joel Osteen, Rod Parsley, Paula White, Mike Murdock if he even is a preacher, the couple that believes in generational curses their last name starts with a H. There are actually only a few I do watch. Joseph Prince from Singalore, Andrew Womack. Robert Morris, being probably my 3 favorites. I dont depend on man to convince me of anything. I love God's Word, I pray in english and in the spirit, and I trust The Spirit of God to reveal more of Jesus to me and in me because i do realize apart from Jesus I can do nothing. Be blessed.
The mantle He never cried out for the mantle. He asked for a double portion and the mantle fell on him. Yet he never relied on the mantle ...instead he knew to cry out to the God of Elijah. These small differences make a big difference when someone is trying to convince you that it's ok to honor ancestors in graveyards and pick up mantles... The bones with the last miracle. The bones of Elisha contained his last miracle that he was promised. He was given a double portion and he had completed Elijah x2 minus 1 .... No one was given that miracle. It was contained in his bones and it was released to a dead body that was thrown in the grave. A live person diddnt come and pick it up from the grave. If we were to speculate on this I could understand if they say that the man received the miracle from Elisha himself on the other side .... but I can't understand the idea that we should be rolling in graves or how any man with the holy spirit could understand that from our Bible.
First, I appreciate Bethel even attempting to address this. But, as a Bethel critic, this does nothing to alleviate my concerns. You’re still perpetuating the idea that visiting graves or other “special” places will somehow elicit a response from God. There’s a huge difference between honoring the dead and going to their gravesite for spiritual benefit. What’s the difference between the explanation offered here and the original accusation? “Well, we’re not seeking that person’s anointing by laying on their grave, we just want our own anointing by…visiting that person’s grave!”. What? Moreover, there’s a difference between looking like a fool for sharing the Gospel and looking like a fool for doing things that are both disturbing and also not found in the instructions revealed to us about how to live a Christian life. If someone thinks God’s anointing on their ministry comes from anything but the sovereign will of God, they’re wrong. You cannot provoke God into blessing you by visiting Spurgeon’s bones (who, perhaps ironically, would find Bethel detestable). “Well sometimes you have to take risks to know if it’s the Holy Spirit!” Really? Chapter and verse please. That’d be like whipping out a Ouija board in church and being like, “The Holy Spirit could work through this. We can’t know until we try.” Foolishness. Where does Bethel draw the line? It sounds like a clever ploy from the enemy. “You can do whatever spiritual practices you want!”. It reminds me of Joseph Smith and the Mormons. He said, “I can’t know if my prophecies are from the Devil or from the Lord until I see if they come true.” That’s something the Devil would say to get you to dabble in the occult, which is what Bethel has become: the occult dressed up in Christian terminology. Anyways, again, I appreciate Bethel joining the discussion.
@Toño Hdz Thanks for your response! I’m not missing the point at all. Bethel creates ambiguity where there is none and then operates in that theater. They say, “we don’t know if this is the Lord until we do it”. Absolutely foolish. I have news for you: if after 2,000 of years church history, you think you have a new idea, you’re probably wrong. And what do you mean if what Beni did wasn’t from God then it was just senseless? I’ll agree, it was indeed senseless, but it’s also evil. No one who is actually in tune with the Holy Spirit would think, “God wants me to go lay on the grave. I’ll get a blessing / anointing that way.” Even Bill understands optics, and he understand that just the optics of that are bad. That should be enough indication that it isn’t something Christians should be doing. Don’t be so dismissive. “She took a risk; we learned. Move on”. Brah, that’s not how it works. Taking a risk is preaching the Gospel, not dabbling in the occult. Can you imagine the things one could justify by saying you’re “just taking a risk for Jesus!”? What we’re risking is our spiritual well-being. How have things gotten so out of hand in Bethel? It’s shocking what they’re doing in the pursuit of something fresh, as if God’s mercy isn’t renewed everyday.
@Toño Hdz If, “go to this particular place and do this particular thing to get an anointing from God” or, “Try random things and see if God responds”, isn’t new theology, I’m not sure what is! Thanks for chatting.
Praise the Lord Jesus the Christ! This is actually a good learning tool, there are so many "holes" in this conversation that don't line up with the Holy scriptures. Not to mention these guys "flippant,at sometimes irreverent" attitude. They mention alot of emotional experience, notice how he says "attacks" on the church instead of "inquiries or factual observations" this is challenging to watch, do an interview with a qualified/objective interviewer.
This is where man worship and honour needs to be addressed. I think its weird and cultish how they stand up for every speaker it's weird. When there is a great speaker who speaks into the community when the people are moved to a standing ovation it won't feel genuine when it is and the anointing is thus not there. I would really like for bethel to address honour vs man worship after being there and loving their ministry so much I am concerned about this particular area. I get the strong impression they have shifted over into man worship and need to bring clarity and from my perspective a repentance on this.
Just a thought... suspicion is not discernment. If you are suspicious of the shift from honour -> worship of man, simply checking your own heart and asking the Holy Spirit what’s happening can really help. Keeping the heart humble before God is the focus. Humility and obedience go hand in hand.
@@wayfarer1101 I'm clearly not saying that all their behaviour is cultish or that they heal in the name of any other person than Jesus. But true christianity is built on personal intimacy and connection with Christ, not connecting to other people and their personal anointings. Speakers can be honoured by being present taking notes and being silent whilst they are speaking. Standing up for every speaker before they have said a word for me is performance based and not genuine. If I received a standing ovation before I spoke i would find it offensive to my message and not genuine. Your reply is out of context and not within the construct of the topic Mr Farer. I felt uncomfortable about this when I was there. I think that this needs addressing.
@@TheRubberDuck01 Yeah I do think this is the Holy Spirit, I felt uneasy in my Spirit about standing up for every speaker. There needs to be a shift back to authentic honour. I don't think this was suspicion but in fact Holy Spirit discernment. It's an ego play from the leaders to feel important before they speak. it's disgraceful and I have made the comment that this is man worship and not true honour and I stand by that statement wholeheartedly. No church is perfect and when ritual and systems supersede grace and truth it's a slippery slope into deception. The fact that Bill Johnson goes to grave sites for anointings I find really weird too. Read their materials pray on your knees before God but going to man for their anointings rather than the word and the secret place is off centre. i think Bills heart is right on this but this is definitely a red flag for me. Just to be clear I love Bethel i have been there it is incredible I was definitely touched their profoundly. Their value for the presence of God and worship is AMAZING! But we can all learn and grow and make changes. Peace
This is “damage control” with obvious proof of the teaching of these “mantles” and great desire for “passing on of anointed mantles”… yes you do teach and model this.
Watch the full episode here: ruclips.net/video/3c7s-WCKIrQ/видео.html
To see the entire series go to: ruclips.net/p/PLUaRlPOu98p0clsG0U0jGoU91tl5q3-sK
19:29 Please explain to me then why Ben Fitzgerald was the one taking the students to England in 2011 and doing exactly what this video tries to rebuke? Or Mrs. Johnson laying across the grave site of C. S. Lewis?
Keep pressing into GOD with The Holly Ghost's Power Releasing healing and God's Glory for his Purpose of REDEMPTION.
@@lwjr1046 keep doing what with who releasing what for who's purpose of WHAT?????? XD
Typo on the thumbnail…it says “grave sucking”
The idea that some spiritual aspect of one's being, in this case the annoiting of the Holy Spirit on those in the upper room, can operate seperate from said people and imprint geographically on an area must first be proven, or atleast in the Christian sphere.
The Spirit of God is omnipresent and thus not restricted to any specific area. HE chooses how He would like to manifest at any given time. He is not some unseen force that we happen to aquire a piece of if we find ourselves in a place some believers were before. This sounds like a lot of hocuspocus and definitely things we see in mysticism. The person who died in Christ leaves nothing behind. Their body returns to the earth and their spirit to God. The annoiting one gets from God when they are regenerated is the Spirit of God Himself. So this whole idea that some people's graves or some sites are some sort of porthole to receive spiritual impartions, is new age. This is the stuff that the new agers and the pagans do. The Lord said 'you shall not worship like the pagans do'. My heart literally breaks for the people who are deceived by these wolves in sheep's clothing.
But as the saying goes, the one with an argument will always lose against the one with an experience. They can't deny their experiences, and neither can we, the sad thing is they automatically assume it's God as if the devil doesnt masquerade as an angel of light.
Why would you need the power of dead men rather than power directly from God Almighty? 🤔
Yeah they are totally whack
I’m very critical of this church because of what I have heard other people say about them. Now I am sure this is the cleaned up version of what was said initially but what he is saying here is dead on. He is not looking for something from the dead. He, in this interview, is saying they are asking God to bring the type of blessing that was on the people or generations of the past.
They didn’t say they need the power of the dead. They said they honored those who’ve gone before them. That’s very different. They were very clear that all communication is to God and all power comes from him.
@@kevinmandara5186 this isn’t just for you.. but Christians in general say things like: Im very critical because of what you’ve heard other people say about them.
The Bible calls that slander and gossip.
If you have an issue with the pastor you take it to the Lord and keep your mouth quiet.
We are to pray for people when or if we believe they are in the wrong.
Do you even know the heart of another person ? Think about the heart of the people who are making the videos That slander and gossip about Bethel. People that come into agreement with it are going to come under judgment. Every person is judged Based upon how we judge. Including myself.
@UCAzbaeo81mDYZIHOmXWyRMg I know this was not specifically directed at me. I have to ask, did you read my whole comment? I said I’m critical of them but I went on to say, what he is saying in this video is accurate and not what they have been accused of.
On another note. If someone in a position of prominence is leading people falsely, it is not slander or gossip to call them out on it.
May the Lord bring truth to light and expose the darkness...may He expose the wolves in sheep's clothing...and may He bring conviction to those who do evil in the sight of the Lord and mislead Gods children. In Jesus name. AMEN
Amen. Sick twisted synagogue of satan stuff right here. Pray for their congregation and let the dead be with the dead
Amen
Amen
There are no heroes in the Bible besides Jesus. Charles Spurgeon, Wesley, etc. never prayed to be like anybody but Him. It’s not a special “anointing” they had, it’s the fervent prayer that the grace of God would make them more like Christ.
Than what is an anointing. Because your definition does not fit what the Bible says
The annointing is the Holy Spirit that every believer receives in full portion the moment they believe. As a member of the Body of Christ you are sealed with the Spirit. That is your annointing. The old testament believers didnt have that, the Spirit came upon them, but never indwelled them. We dont need to go 'claim' what others had, we all ready have what they had...one in the same Spirit, one in the same annointing. If we can learn anything from these goldy people that went before us is to give God more of ourselves and let the Spirit move as He wills. Those men didnt have something we dont have, they just had a better understanding of how to use it to glorify God and expand His kingdom. Bethel promotes pagan practices like soaking, guided prayer, prophetic games like destiny cards and prophetic uno cards. The Lord said come out of her my people, lest you also be defiled.
Sounds like an attempt to clean-up a practice that they thought was uber cool until ppl started asking 'WTH are you doing?' Not a good explanation to say we don't teach grave sucking and then the lead pastor saying I've gone to graves, I've knelt down to pray [at the grave site], I've prayed to God to do it again...that sounds like an admission to the charge, not a refutation. What do u mean by do it again other than give me the anointing of the dead guy of whose grave I'm kneeling at. Very bizarre and unbiblical. That's what the occult does, not Christians. We are not metaphysicals or spiritualists. We follow the Word of God, not unholy practices beyond the scope of scripture.
Ppppfffff lol
Amen!
You know him personally? No? okay cool.
@ vjazz79 Agree!!! 2 Corinthians 6:17 “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,” Before learning they were doing this demonic practice I went to their church to visit, went to a healing conference, watched his sermons, and loved the music (most of it) from Bethel. Now? No way. Staying far, far away from any church that does any practices like their "grave soaking". That will bring demons. After watching Jesus Christ set over 100 people free from demons... NO THANK YOU BETHEL!!!
@@luv2travel2000 lol you must know so much about them
Bethel played a large part in deceiving me. I’m so glad I watched American Gospel, and began reading my Bible in context and learned why Jesus came!
God bless you!!!
American gospel maybe right on some of the people they attack but can be very wrong in the spirit in which they attacked them.
@@Marc-yh1rd mmmmmm no
@@Marc-yh1rd you don’t gently correct people twisting Gods word deceiving people. You rebuke them sharply. False teachers are evil
I am right there with you!! American gospel changed my life and turned me away from bethel! God is so good
Isaiah 8:19 When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?
YES!
Didn't watch the video did you? 🙄
@@jessiosborne2902 don't read the Bible do you?
What denomination are you ?
@@David-_-_- Why are you asking?
Why kneel and humble yourself on a grave? Why looking for the Living among the dead? Why honouring so called saints and not worship Christ Jesus in Spirit and truth?
You didn’t listen to the video, did you? You’re just tossing out accusations w no proof.
@@kimdkus The first part is a quotation by Johnson in this video.
He wasn't saying he kneeled and humbled himself before a grave. He was at a grave and felt the Holy Spirit's presence and felt led to kneel and humble himself before God, while at the grave. Quit mincing his words
Amen.
@@wmr4463 let's not play pretend. The spirit is long gone from the dead body.
I thank God He opened my eyes to the NAR movement - one I was deeply involved in.
They scream freedom but the delivery is far from it. Finally found true freedom in the Gospel. 🙌🏼
Praise God
NAR was never created by the "Narites"!!! 😂🤣😂
@@wayfarer1101 what?
Amen. 2 Peter 2 18-21
You haven't experienced freedom, then.
You don't experiment in Christ period you teach another Christ. You don't preach the gospel. I pray for y'all.
So I'm hearing these guys say "We don't teach it but we do it"
Bingo! Interviewer states we don’t teach that, I’ve never, ever….Bill Johnson…..I talked about it 20 years ago….I’m creating a museum for dead people…etc
@@gkrazy4ver creating a museum is the same as praying to dead people?
@@shan3671 No, but if Bethel is involved you can never know how they’ll use it! They have so much unbiblical practices already. Are you not the least worried about how they would misuse a museum from dead leaders of the faith? Their pastor states he’s an apostle, the gold dust sham, puppets prophet, high view of man low view of God gospel, etc…
@@gkrazy4ver I’m sure they would say that you are unbiblical in your beliefs. Thankfully, we are not saved by having the most correct theology. I just don’t see where praying at a gravesite (to God, not to the dead person) or thinking that you see gold dust disqualifies you for salvation. However, in Galatians chapter 5, Paul speaks about people “falling away from grace”. He’s not talking about sinners, he’s talking about people who have become self-righteous and legalistic. I’m sure you have some great arguments about why the Bethel folks are heretics, but be careful about looking down on people because they don’t have a beautiful liturgy, or hold the “correct” view of some secondary doctrine.
The wheat and the tares is a weak excuse for allowing demonic behavior to come into a school of ministry. That’s sick and wrong.
Yea if only Spurgeon was here today! I’d love to hear what he would have to say about Bethel… 😀
Spurgeon: Heretics!
He would flip out lol
It's ok, we can still let Paul Washer loose on them. He can launch an emotional strike and Voddie Baucham can come in with the physical strike.
Then John MacArthur will come to console.
Utterly reprobate
Wow your profile picture looks like Heavenly Treasures / Jesse and Taylor
I don't see an answer as to why his wife was laying on a grave, asking for a dead person's power, and speaking to the camera as if it was her own produced video. She wasn't caught by mistake. Where does this doctrine even come from? Does Christ suggest that we are to hang out in grave yards... no, he's the God of the LIVING (Mark 12:27). Does God's Word suggest we spend our time searching out anything we want or desire, or chasing after the heart of God and what HE wants and desires. We're told to pursue God, and even Spiritual Gifts, but these things are CLEARLY listed in scripture, so why on earth would you want to take spiritual risks? Doesn't the bible show us that spiritualists seek the dead? Even the demon-possessed? Like the demoniac of Mark 1. This appears to be another case of poor leadership at Bethel. I don't know what's happening right now, but pray for conviction for them.,
Not defending the idea of grave soaking - as I'm doubtful anyone recent has been annointed enough to make this even remotely useful - but do you know why the vatican calls the main church St Peters Basilica ? Give you a hint .... somone is burried under it named Peter .... you might have heard of him. Thats where the Christian traditiont of patron saints for Churches comes from. All early Christian churches were built over the graves of the deceased saints - starting with the 11 apostles. All 11 have churches built over their graves as do pretty much every single recognized Christian" saint". The catholics did it. The orthodox did it and the Protestants did it too. To this day every single altar in a catholic church contains at minimum 2 bones/relics from a dead saint so that the mass is literally celebrated "on the bones of the saints".
Just pointing out - this isn't even remotely weird for Christianity. Its basically normal they did this in all the major denominations for literally 2000 years and in actual fact newer churches like Bethel are probably the only Christian churches that don't get the bodies of these types of people and literally bury them under the church or distribute their bones to be placed in the altar or as relics in the church. If I was a bethel leader I would have maybe pointed this out - as it seems like most people from traditional denominations pointing fingers don't actually know what their own Christian denomination does with the dead bodies of their past annointed leaders who have died. The traditional denominations are way weirder then this - go look at a Catholic alter - all of them have a dead saints bones or relics in it. :)
I saw the photo. Was there a video as well? Where can I find that?
@@David-_-_-
"All early Christian churches were built over the graves of the deceased saints - starting with the 11 apostles."
Isn't that an obviously false statement given that churches existed when the apostles were alive?
Then, when you add that persecution didn't stop for 300 years after their deaths, means that churches would not have been built on their graves for 300 years, until it was safe to do so. EVEN THEN, where they are buried would have become a tradition at that poin,t which would like have had disagreement.
It seems like, despite you saying you're not defending grave soaking...you kind of are. You seem to be suggesting if someone had been "anointed enough" then some kind of power could be absorbed/drawn/recovered/imparted/(choose your own word) from their corpse? Therefore, this is why early Christians supposedly built their churches on the graves of saints.
Now, I agree with you, especially in the dark ages/medieval era, the idea of the bones of saints having power existed (St. Cuthbert for example). However, these are later religious developments, not from the beginning.
When you have to go on RUclips to clear the air about a thing called grave soaking, you’ve already failed miserably.
@Sweet and Spicy Bacon Burgershould I just call it damage control? People didn’t make these things up about them.
Well he said God would defend him if he was worth defending....say no more!
He says they never called it grave sucking. He said what he really did, which we all know means he really went out there to get the deceased’s “anointing “. He was grave sucking.
When powerless toolish denominations claim something completely wrong so people who are bringing God's love have to address their foolish ignorance, they have failed miserably. Then there's serial nerderers who try post mic drops under a pseudonym but it fails so bad its more like a deuce drop- that's this guy. He is the Dwight of the hate-gospel.
@@mb1015wow it’s almost word for word of what the Roman’s soldiers said when they were mocking Jesus on the cross
False teachings:
Bill Johnson:”god told me: if you honor these (dead ) men I will give you their anointing “
This is wrong on so many levels.... nothing biblical about that . Very deceived / deceiving.
They should better Honor Jesus... And get His anointing. 👍🏻
Why do you think this is wrong? What scripture can you provide?
@@1srael5haw because anointings are for each individual different. IT has to do with the Personal and natural Gifts that a Person has. Also his Charakter, personality , Temperament...IT is totally Personal and unique. Adding that Anointings are gotten by seeking Jesus on a very personal level of intimacy. When Bill believes that He can get anointing from an old Champion in faith by just laying on his grave...this is a very, very shallow view of things, ignorant and completely wrong, considering how unique and different people are. Pay the price and get your own anointing BY JESUS.
@@ComeOutOfHerMyPeople So I agree we should go directly to God for annointing where ever we can. But at the same time its clear God often chooses individuals who are mature and responsible enough to receive much larger annointings of the Holy Ghost then others. These people are then used as "conduits" or "channels" for the spirit to work on earth. Thats what happened at Pentacost in the Upper room. Thats what happened with Paul. Then instead of the holy Ghost falling directly from heaven on everyone these people were instead traveling and laying hands on people to transmit the holy ghost from themselves onto others. In Acts(Acts 19:12) its written that Paul's annointing with the spirit was so strong - he could heal people who were unable to visit him by simply giving his clothing items - hankerchief or apron - to a family member and they would take it to the ill person who could not meet him and the spirit on the clothing item was enough to heal them and cast out demons. Similar to the woman who touched the hem of Jesus garment. Just coming into contact with the spirit is all thats needed and its shown that it can be transmitted through objects and in the prophet Elishas case even remained on his body after he died and was able to restore a dead man to life.
Why didn't God simply give them the holy spirit ? Why did he choose these conduits to deliver the spirit ? Why in the case of the woman witht he issue of bleeding or the sick who could not travel to the apostles did God not simply send his spirit from heaven ? I can't answer this for certain but my inference is God wants us humans to participate in the work of salvation and the distribution of the spirit. He doesn't just want to "zap" everyone from heaven. He wants people to dedicate themselves to God - so they become conduits and do his work on eath. "The harvest is ripe - but the workers are few".
Additional it seems he requires people to "put in real concerted effort" to get their healing\annointing. Often they must perform an earnest act of repentance. The paralized man through the cieling - the caanite woman he challenges. God seems to respond to and reward acts of great perserveriance to receive healing and the spirit now I'm not sure he would consider "grave soaking" the best way to go about it - but I genuinely think he would be impressed at the desire and effort to come in contact with the spirit even if I agree its probably not a very intelligent way to go about it. But God rewards "faith" and when we keep seeking him he will reward us with his presence.
@Joe MacNeill Where does the Bible say that no man can improve upon the Holy Spirit residing in us? Of course the Holy Spirit is gift that only come from God, but we see many places in scripture where the Holy Spirit is given to someone through the laying on of hands. So God definitely uses people to give the Holy Spirit. Jesus even gave us the example by being baptized by John before the Holy Spirit descended on him.
I’m just wondering if your lack of “interfering” with students’ misinterpretations is actually a form of having bad boundaries as a leader. I would think as a student, I’d rather know what boundaries I should follow instead of being allowed to wander the supernatural as I please simply because you don’t want to pacify my passion
Wow what a profound question.
Preach
So what did Bill say when you sat down snd asked him this question face to face? Not asking directly to a person snd making accusations is satanic.
I can understand why you would also allow students to be innovative and be used in New and creative ways also. There just needs to be a balance and that should always hang on the Word.
But I think, if the boundaries are the Word as they should be. As leaders they should be giving their students the coloring crayons, so to speak, and showing them how to use them, but not telling them what colors they should choose to use.
God is a pretty creative, innovative Guy. Bethel trys to cultivate a spirit of creativity. I admire promoting that type of freedom to innovate. Even when they fall on their face sometimes.
Cuz to be honest, nobody knows to the maximum degree exactly what the boundaries and guidelines are to the T. We are all growing together in our relationship and understanding of God, His Spirit and His Ways. And it continues to suprise us!
Which to me was one lesson Jesus was teaching when He rubbed mud in the blind man's eyes. "You never know what I am going to do next or how I am going to do it. So just be humble."
@@kimdkus I would say that you don’t always have to ask face to face. That’s why there’s a comment section. Also, p
The only one worth seeking out and giving honor to is God! We must be so careful to not give glory and attention to man. Receiving the anointing doesn't come from honoring man, and it never will. It is Jesus we should follow and seek with our whole heart, soul, and mind.
Jesus was a man friend. You just contradicted yourself. That's what Son of MAN means. Maybe Romans 1:3-4 will help you especially verse 4.
You can’t dispute the videos showing exactly what goes on at Bethel.
Unfortunately, my church's worship leader plays and sings their songs in church
I'm not associated with Bethel - but this isn't even close to weird when compared to what other denominations do. What denomination are you ?
Do you know literally every single catholic altar has a special compartment where they place the bones and relics of dead "saints". They literally dig up the dead bodies - distribute the bones and then place them into the altars as part of the concecration process. Every single altar - even for new churches today - have dead peoples bones and or their possessions placed in them. Most traditional denominations also built the major churches over the graves of important saints. Eg: Saint Peters Basilica in the vatican ..... is literally Peter the apostles Tomb. Most big Christian churches in Europe are built on a saints tomb. The catholics, orthodox and protestants all did this for basically the last 2 millenia. Much of what is practiced in tradtitional christian churches makes this look super tame. Have you ever been to an orthodox church and watched them praying while touching the "sacred relics" ?
@@David-_-_- Your talking about the Catholic Church. Bethels grave soaking . Both are listed as heretical in the scriptures. They are lying about grave soaking.. They’ve removed their pictures, but nothing is ever removed from the net.
@@David-_-_- really...others are worse...so hey what is a little error. what is a little arsenic?
@Conservative Mama I'm sure you'd say the same thing about the Book of Acts when Holy Spirit came like a wind if there had been video cameras. Those in the Upper Room went on to perform miracles and build the Church. The Scoffers just went on to scoff.
I looked at several videos where Bill is answering questions about Grave soaking and I believe he is not advocating praying to saints or asking for their anointing but more praying to God to do again what he has done before through these saints.
I do not understand why he feels he has to go to their graveside but I also know when we visit a friend's or family members grave it stirs in us emotions that we don't experience when we are sitting at home.
Not defending, but praying that if there is something demonic going on, God will reveal it to Bill and his staff.
We on the other hand should be praying not crucifing our brothers and sisters in Christ.
The only one winning when we bad mouth our fellow believers is satan.
We can expose darkness nothing wrong with telling the truth.
Anointing comes from God, not from people. we are just vessels of God. We should always base our conviction from the Holy Spirit AND the WORD OF GOD.
Conviction and earthly wisdom can be confusing,. And the " lead of the Holy Spirit" can lead other Christians to rely on their own understanding instead of praying and relying on God's Word.
My perception is that Wesley, Whitfield, and Finney are revered at Bethel because they drew crowds and spoke about experiencing God. Mostly I feel that What they taught is largely ignored at Bethel.
I suspect it would be good to avoid much of what Finney taught.
@@kirkkw Ah yes, inventor of the altar call, and denier of Jesus' sacrifice for our sins. Not a great example.
I was thinking this too- if Bethel followers would research the guys he mentions, they would by and large leave Bethel
...ignored.....like the Word of God.
@@Addie3107 or if they read their bible, they'd leave too.
When I asked Father about grave sucking, He said, "I didn't call you to play with dead things." I believe there's a spirit of error in Bethel since leadership started to engage in this dangerous spiritual folly. Honoring the saints of old is fine but that is all that is necessary, folks. Use your excess money to help the senior citizens in your area and single mothers. Do the gospel now and stop worshiping the dead.
He did specifically say they do not worship or talk to the dead. Or angels.
@@annacullen3096 what he said they do and what they actually do is not the same thing. I implore you to carefully disect what they are actually saying here, and not what they want you to hear. They admit to thinking these places have some spiritual power that can be imparted to them through touch. They admit to someone they know having had an supernatural experience at a grave of a believer that was famous, thus in turn making those student want to go there too to try and replicate said experience.(and why is no one asking what in the world he was doing at that grave in the first place? What are they,bethel student/bill's wife, doing in graveyards in the first place, laying on graves, if not to somehow connect to the dead? Which is strictly forbidden by God).
He admits to thinking it strange but also not discouraging his students bc hey, he doesnt want to keep them from trying different things and missing out. It's all about feelings and experiences with them, it superceeds clear instructions in the bible. For instance, you shall not worship like the pagans do, or the hidden knowledge belongs to God.
I pray you ask the Lord to show you the deception of bethel. Just because they are nice people and the feelings they evoke in others through their music and supernatural experiences make people feel great, doenst mean it's the truth of God. We should desire the truth of God above all else, especially above supernatural experiences. Blessed are those who do not see and still believe.
Blessings!
You had to ask God about Necromancy, because His word isn't good enough for you?!
WELL ARNT YOU BLESSED THAT HE EVEN ANSWERED YOU....
I WOULDNT GET AWAY WITH SUCH THINGS WITH GOD....
AND THAT JUST PROVES HOW MERCIFUL AND GRACIOUS HE REALLY IS!
1 Kings 13 - READ IT!
IT'S ABOUT THE ORIGINAL BETHEL!
Teaching Satannic Practices in the Name of God is called FRAUD and it's a Crime...
MIX IT IN WITH ALL THE OTHER ORGANISED CRIME COMMITTED BY THESE CHURCHES AND THEIR god TRUMP, AND YOU GET CHARGES THAT QUALIFY UNDER RICO....
WHERE IS THE LAW?!
Could you do a response to your recreating the Lord of the Rings staff scene when praying against racism please?
Yes that one had me questioning!!
Yeah that was things that make you go hmmmm
😂
Haha, I can try (did 3 years at BSSM) but this is not a representative answer for the church.
Throughout the Bible we see God's people and prophets do certain acts as God does his miracles. Moses is for example asked to strike a rock to make water flow out. Jesus put mud on a blind man's eyes and he was healed. Daniel prayed and fasted for 21 days until Michael came and freed Gabriel from the prince of Persia. Joshua and the Israelites walked around Jericho a bunch before the walls crumbled to dust. None of these natural, physical acts had any power to accomplish the miracle. Obviously! However, when the action is ordained by God to be done in such and such a way, obedience to that instruction is what God demands for the miracle to take place. I don't perfectly know why, but I believe God sees our hearts, obedience, willingness to risk looking stupid, faith and our practical action is an expression of that faith.
As for the Gandalf-instance, I'm 90% sure the lady felt like she received such an instruction from God, that doing that would have some sort of spiritual impact on the powers and principalities perpetuating racism in America. I don't understand it, and the Bible doesn't give many details about spiritual warfare, but obedience to God's promptings is generally a safe bet. Worst case scenario, you look a little stupid :)
@@Filipalien great answer Filip!
The problem is, you, as in Bill or Dan may not be doing it. But I was best friends with a LEADER who took 10 people on a trip to Smith Wigglesworths grave where they laid on it and asked God to give them his mantle. So the issue becomes that people in your leadership are promoting and doing this very thing. I was a member of Bethel for years. And I can attest that at no point was there a teaching to NOT do that. I think things do need to be addressed. And corrected so people stop doing that.
Risk means mistakes. Better not to be someone who gossips. Better to have a heart to peruse the Lord and continue in His grace when we fall.
@@benjaminhemingway4511 beautifully said My Brother ♡
His wife was doing it.
@@benjaminhemingway4511 You don't accidentally do necromancy.
@@mturner2572 I would recommend Mike Winger's channel for newbies. Anthony Rogers for more meat.
You shouldn’t need to lay on dead men of God’s graves in order to get an anointing….
All you need to do is repent of your sins, take up your cross and follow Jesus. Then trust that God will place you in your calling. You don’t need another mans anointing.
What about the mantle of Elijah being passed to Elisha? It is scriptural....
First of all, Elijah was still ALIVE when Elisha asked for a double portion of his spirit...not the anointing. Two different things. Plus God gave it to him not Elijah...Elijah said, "If you see me when I am taken up from you, you will have it, if not, you won't." But only God can give it folks!
With a deliverance I had of self loathing I felt a pulling up of something in my spirit. And it reminded me that the Lord said leave the tares to me. It was so wonderful to feel so good after so many years. And I was a born again Christian for over 30 years. I’m convinced Christians can need deliverance
Absolutely Christians need deliverance. Derek Prince and Isaiah Saldivar talk about this. I have seen Christians delivered frim demons. It is needed 💯
Straight up was me as well, I’m on the younger side, 16 currently turning 17. I was in a church, and I fell into bad habits because of issues, and earlier this year I was getting delivered March 9th. So I’m convinced that a Christian can have a demon and be oppressed and they can be in ministry and not know and of course need deliverance.
@@danielkambur1560 Encounter Ministries RUclips channel. (Mark Hemans)+
@@luv2travel2000 2 of the worst false deliverance teachers you have named there. Not one verse in the bible supports the idea that Christians require deliverance from demons. Quite the opposite actually. To say that diminshes Christ's work on the cross for our sins.
@@danielkambur1560 can you point out specific scriptures in the bible where Christians were delivered from demons? Was the death of Jesus on the cross not powerful enough for you? How can God and a demon reside in the same place together?
I think Bill needs to do one of these sit downs and discuss " Physics of heaven" Melissa Dougherty has interviews discussing chapters from the book and she really does make it sound like Bill Johnson and others from Bethel that wrote this book are getting into New Age practices. I love listening to Bill Johnson's teachings from The Word of God but these teachings in this book need to be addressed.
Yep. Its a very well done and delivered talk that she did on the book. Bethel Bill is a fully false teacher. The list of deception and false teaching is long and deep. For people who dont know the scriptures, this stuff can seem rational and reasoned.
This series of videos will indict these people and expose them and their false teaching to unknowing people who might have otherwise fallen for these falsehoods
Other people have done in-depth analyses on that book. It’s just too extensive and thorough to be taken out of context. There’s no way he could explain away the findings of Melissa et al. His views are problematic at best.
They do need to be addressed because Bill dabbled into a lot of unbiblical things there.
The simple test for this is to open the Bible and show us where these practices are written in scripture. That was Melissa’s point, and she’s been in the New Age before. So the claim that these practices were stolen from Christianity is a lie because no one opens the Bible to prove it.
We really need to Read the Bible.
You shouldn't listen to him. He tells about 80 truth to make the 20 blasphemy go down more smoothly. Satan himself told mostly truths in the garden. It's the lie that makes the poison.
@@toomanymarys7355exactly. The one tiny lie that makes it “almost true” and subtle enough for people to endorse it.
Jesus, in Matt 16:4a "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign"
YES!
SPOT. ON.
I’m not sure exactly what you’re trying to say by this verse, but remember that many people came to Jesus for miracles and he performed them. Many people in the Bible asked God to perform signs for them and he did: Moses before the burning bush, Gideon with his fleece, Hezekiah with his shadow. And the Bible encourages us to seek God’s power in our own lives “earnestly desire the spiritual gifts”. Seek to understand the heart of God in scripture.
@@1srael5haw Jesus didn't come to "perform miracles for people." He came to die for our sins - which is the only miracle that we need to care about. Therein lies the problem with Bethel. Bethel is obsessed with power. I really urge you to read where they got their wacky doctrines from- like Bob Jones (who told women to get nude to receive a prophecy) and people like William Branham and the new order of the latter rain. These doctrines are just being re-hashed for the people now who don't bother to read up on their ungodly demonic origins.
@@1srael5hawFALSE TEACHERS, CHARLATANS, SORCERERS and all kinds of other sources can do miracles too.
The heart of God through scripture is to REVEAL CHRIST. What is revealed has been WRITTEN. READ IT.
The Holy Spirit doesn’t need us to be the Holy Spirit.
Spurgeon and Whitfield preached mostly about repentace and sin. That’s why revival happend in their generation. Bethel doesnt! They worship their supernarural experience instead.
So, they basically said "Yeah, we kinda don't really do that. BUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTT.....*whispers* we kinda do".
Exactly!
You hear what you want to hear.
I feel like this could've been a simple "no" moment. "No, we don't do that." Simple. 3 minute video. I feel all this is doing is digging a deeper hole and not actually answering the question.
I'm still not real clear on why Beni Johnson was lying on a grave
20:57
It sounds like Beni was responding to what God was doing in the moment, during her time with him, but not specifically to soak something from the grave. Could have been a symbolic thing perhaps. It's entirely possible she doesn't even know.
I've not seen the photo and I'm not a Bethel super fan or anything, just a Jesus follower trying to make sense of that question.
It’s pretty clear from the context what happened, she was in a graveyard for the reasons that Bill mentioned, and received a prompting from the Holy Spirit to lie down. If what you seek is information that would make lying on a grave sound less bizarre then I think you’re out of luck here, and to be a little blunt, there’s really no reason for you or anyone else to expect that
I’m still not clear on why people care so much. 🙄
It's easy and misleading to add your own narrative to a photograph. Mainstream Media does it all of the time.
But what about the video where you mimicked Gandalf and used a socererers staff and commanded thall shall not pass.
What about that?
The tombs were the hangout of that demoniac mentioned in the Gospel. He was possessed by Legion.
Matthew 5:1-20
1And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.
You know nothing of Christian history.
@@RorySRussell I am thinking about all the scriptures about the grave and I totally agree with you on this. Still looking in the bible where we believers pray at the grave to get one's or the anointing.
@@lachundaroberts7033 It is not biblical. Read Matthew chapter 22:32. Read Mark chapter 12:27.
Sounds like witchcraft to me
Our life as born again Christian, is to discipline ourself to wake up early to be in prayer and the Word of God before the busyness of the day(1 Peter 1). This is how we put our whole armor of God to stand in the evil day. Eph.6:10-18
Ughhh. For Bill, anything goes, as long as someone is "hungry for God" and they were apparently led by the Holy Spirit. That's so dangerous! And frustrating because he can excuse any behavior away by making that claim...
Truth.
@@gandalf0987 if Gandalf says it’s true then it must be.
you mean like when his wife uses TUNING FORKS!
@@rachelg1372 does she use tuning forks on other people that is definitely a new age practice.
If you guys were there in Jesus’ time, you sure would have been part of the Pharisees. I wonder if you really what the Bible is about. Christianity is cheapened because of we the so called Christians.
You need Jesus
There is so much of the tangible presence of God on this Rhema. Glory to our King Jesus and the Spirit of the Lord, Holy Spirit.
Fire of the LORD.
Where is this practice done in the scriptures? Really…
He said that this is NOT something they teach.
@@adoretoutlemonde8 But it is something they have done, is it not?
@@avidcreation6407 If I was Bethel I would have pointed out the practices of many other denominations which go far beyond this just so people are aware of what happens in their own faith. In Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches they traditionally built churches on top of their deceased annointed leaders tombs "saints". Most major churches in Europe are literally the tombs of saints. EG: Saint Peters basilica - thats built on Peters tomb like most major churches. Additionally the catholic church exhumes the bodies of those they recognize as saints - then distributes the bones to be placed into altars. Every catholic altar has a special compartment where they place the bones and relics from dead saints before it is concecrated for use. Almost no catholic I know realizes this - but every altar has a dead persons bones and posessions in it. The orthodox church sets up sites in the church for bones and relics where people come and touch them and pray. Its really only newer more modern churches from the last 50 odd years that dont do these practices Bethel is decidedly tame compared to the major denominations and what they do with the dead bodies of past "saints". Like he said - they don't teach or encourage this - but at least he can see the people who did it are hungry for the holy spirit. They did it because they thought this person was touched by Gods spirit and I want to be close to that.
@@adoretoutlemonde8 it is something his wife did and there were webpages about it on their website before they were recently deleted.
@@adoretoutlemonde8 The interviewer said that. But Bill Johnson did mention that he talked about visiting the grave of deceased leaders of the faith. Why would they even be talking about this topic if not because this is about their rebranding campaign over topics that have cause huge backlash in previous years? Don’t check your brain at the door. Bill admitted to going to grave sites for the purpose of honoring the dead and there at that place he would ask God for the same grace those dead individuals had when they were alive. Hence the name grave soaking. He has influenced ppl to do the same. Weather you believe he is right or wrong, I just wanna know where in the word of God do we see this practice? Is my question offensive? Why is the herald of God even sharing some personal practice at the office of a biblical teacher when it is NOT a practice found in the scriptures? Why are there many who would document themselves doing such practices? I find it interesting and am merely curious to understanding.
Sounds very similar to the view of the Saints in Catholicism..
I don’t want Spurgoens or Wesleys anointing. I want Jesus’ anointing. And I’ve never read a scripture that suggested that we regard the anointing of men in such a high regard, or to chase an identity of men rather than the Jesus that gave them their own unique identity and anointing, whom also desires to give us our own.
I see your point.
@@marleneholloway7775 I still enjoy Bethel and really glean from their willingness to abandon the common facade of religious perfection for genuine pursuit
I agree. they are acting as if ministry means to abandon biblical wisdom for secret wisdom...sounds very gnostic.
Elisha asked for and received a double portion of Elijah's anointing when he left
@@pastorjonathan4300 Elisha had to ask for a man’s anointing. We, under a new covenant are now in Christ. Elisha did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as we do either..
Which is why Jesus said that prophets like John the Baptist would even be least in the Kingdom, because they had God on them.. we have God IN us.
We can do better than basing our New covenant on the examples of the Old one, or begging for anointing, or wishing for another man’s portion, because we have been invited into something much much greater.
Grandma needs healing; Yesterday she was taken to an ambulance at 4:30a.m. Because her heart is swollen. which i thought wasn't that bad until my mom told me about her having lots of confusion. So because she was confused my mom told her what to do ,and when she told Grandma to just suck on a straw. she said, "i can't" that moves me to ask for your prayer. So if this moved you even a little pray for my grandma Joy Levine to be healed in her body and soul. And get others too God bless THanks soo much
I would love to listen to Bill answering the questions without interruptions, the interview would be much better if the interviewer wouldn't interrupt so often - he talkes much more than Bill, that is really sad!
I totally agree.
My same thought
Have actually screamed at my phone for him to shut up and let Bill finish his point! Very annoying!
“I let God run my defense.” Amen!
@@KristiLEvans1 Amen....glad you returned home into the fold sister !
I don't think this is a Biblical attitude... yes God can defend his people and ultimately we do rely on God for everything, but we also have a responsibility to respond to criticism... 1 Peter 3:15 says "in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect." ... further more you see Paul reasoning with people in Athens the had idols in Acts 17... certainly there are some arguments not worth having... and yes there were times when God used miricles to reveal himself, even through the pophets and the apostles, but I think we should still be prepared to give a defense... so when I hear him say things like what he says at 5:30 ... it's very concerning to me
It's witchcraft no matter what you call it.
No pickles, if it didn’t and doesn’t happen, and powerless morons say it did cuz they don’t listen to words to learn, its not anything.
But, you wouldn’t know the difference anyway.
@@ReverendElationexcept for what is documented in video?
@@LarrySanger Oh, detective Larry! Go get that documentation and the relevant information and post it here, thanks!
@@ReverendElation it’s already on RUclips. I saw it. Many people here did.
@@LarrySanger Dude. Imagine you had to make a case in Heaven, and that what you repeat and spread is presented before God who knows the actions, responses, and hearts of all of the players-and present it here.
If not, better keen with Kingdom talk. Get it?
This means:
A) what exactly do you claim went on?
B) by whom?
C) when?
D) was something taught as a doctrine? When and where?
E) how have claims been addressed within the last 30 years about it?
For you to accuse and criticize the most influential move of God today without actual clear thought and sound judgment is how you can tell that the enemy is whispering in your ear.
(As you research, you will find that what is said in the response videos are true, and the concept was both misreported and misrepresented, and it was rejected immediately. Also, check the fellows in your bed-are they they same ones who criticize anything Pentecostal/Charismatic? Do they speak bad of exorcism? Doubt healing? Do they preach the poverty gospel? Are they heresy hunters with no grace, forgiveness, or patience with people from different cultures and denominations? That should clue you in. Do they have a sin-seared consciousness, pointing out sins in others? Do they think their mandate is to point out wolves, even though they don’t exhibit any Holy Spirit New Covenant power in their ministries? These are the signs that they are stuck on works, and think their doctrine saves them, and that the devil is just manipulating their biases and weaknesses to attempt to minimize the work of any who are doing actual Kingdom ministry.
Don’t be like them.
You have a higher calling. )
What scripture tells us we need anything from dead believers? Where does scripture tell us to want this? Pray for this? Believer this is possible?
Bless you Dan and Bill, I love to see your heart for the Lord and for the body 🙏🏼
Why did they delete the web pages relating to grave soaking?
Grave soaking??? "Why seek ye the living among the dead (James 24:5)?" "neither shall ye set up any image of stone...to bow down unto it (Lev 26:1)." "And whosoever toucheth...a grave, shall be unclean (Num 19:16)." "in the grave who shall give thee thanks (Ps 6:5)?" "Giving honor where honor is due...that Moses would no longer be the high water mark (Lakeland Todd Bentley prophesy June 24, 2008)."
Bro watch the video
“If you’re afraid of ridicule, you’ll never do anything great for God.” Good word.
....
Who says that ? It means everything we have to do for God will ask to be ridicule and dangerous?
@@lucianmezinoi8536 Dann Farrely, see above video.
Jim Jones
Why would we need the grace and the anointing of the dead. We all have a unique anointing that was given to us by God. Why mess with Gods perfection 🤦♀️
This is weird and not biblical at all. Let the dead bury the dead. We have no business with the dead. Plain and simple. We need to focus on teachings that are purely biblical, and follow the steps of Jesus and He alone. I'm dedicated to doing this through my ministry.
It’s not biblical so that’s that!
Challenge to Bethel followers: Daily read and study God’s Word, watch both American Gospel videos (full movies) - and don’t attend meetings, listen or watch anything Bethel related for one month.
This challenge is a hard one.
His Word will expose things.
As someone who can't travel to bethel I thank you for finally addressing this formally. It's been a source of unrest for many
Bethel still has dead links to grave soaking articles on their website. They deleted them to cover up their necromancy.
He's lying through his teeth.
@@SixStringSlinger1 that's what I thought. There were pictures of them lying across the graves. It's really disgusting.
This is called "Gaslighting."
Yall are fools if yall are goin to look past this as well as the “christian terro cards” the “ honey hole” thing the scandals of stealing peoples money and spending it on affluent lives and things. not only this but its like if people have an explanation to the worst thing they can accept the other things without concern you are a fool if you feel this stuff is alright this church is full of demonic references and all kind of other heathenry they had a gay cowboy on stage naked. they compare biblical references to witchcraft they said “on earth as it is in heaven” and said thats the same as the demonic sayin “as above so below” . everyone is saying celebrities are devil worshipers and always throwin up the 3 6’s and spells in their song and all of a sudden they all show up in one church. You all will burn in hell not because you died and couldnt make it but because you are witches and are tripping up Gods people who are willing to give their life to God but you mislead them to a place where they think these things are okay . The bible says many will perish for the lack of knowledge. People please check into every single thing i said and seeeeeeee i pray god open eyes and i pray he give you the overwhelming evidence you need to leave thos chirch and turn away and really seek god not this wickedness i pray by the power of the Holy Spirit he open youre hearts to truth and close them to wickedness once you see the lies they tell and if you dont that you will be willing pray for an answer from god the one and only living God and that when you ask you can mever un hear the words he says. I plead the blood of jesus against any mind that is has been tricked by their wickedness and ask god himself to send the holy spirit and its power to war against all false doctrine. I pray eyes are opened to truth. And hearts and minds are willing to seek truth that they may leave wherever they are to find you able to leave freely and willingly breaking all contracts with satan and any form of demonic right that may be left over any legal right or promise that the devil may have any door that may be open any strong hold shall be broken in kesus mighty name amen
You study these men, read their sermons, teach the revelation that they had, but the anointing of the Holy Spirit is the max. In the OT anointing could be doubled, but the Holy Spirit came (to stay) on the day of Pentecost, and you cannot double Him.
I actually agree with you. I thought about what you said and remembered John 3:34, “For the One whom God had sent [Jesus] speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.” (NIV)
I loved watching this! I never thought you guys believed in “grave sucking”, because I trust the DNA of how your church pursues God. What I loved the most is watching an engaged conversation, with genuine grace in the face of an intentional misrepresentation. Just another way I want to grow in my own walk to be more like Jesus!
Love you guys!
From Alberta, Canada 🇨🇦
Bill Johnson's wife had photos of herself grave sucking on Instagram. Bethel made up the name, too. He is trying to cover.
He's lying through his teeth. Their website literally has a deleted link to grave soaking. And they have many heretical doctrines at Bethel aside from that.
@@KristiLEvans1 Encounter Ministries RUclips channel. (Mark Hemans)
@@KristiLEvans1 Read Mark chapter 16:1-20. Ask yourself this question. Do you believe what it says? These signs will follow those who believe!
Still doesn't make sense. So at 21:00 she was led by God to lie on the grave??
I'm with you. This is all foolishness!
I'm an usher at my church. A few months ago, I was praying before service and I felt drawn to a particular chair in a particular section. I felt like the Holy Spirit wanted me to lay hands on the empty chair, so I did... Later on in service, the man who sat in that chair responded to the altar call and gave his life to Jesus.... You never know what a seemingly foolish or unnecessary act of obedience can do.
Kris totally different then getting on a plane....flying to a particular graveyard...going to a specific grave and laying on it. It was not a random grave.
@@Kris77777 Romans 10 is clear on how people get saved. It's not by your lying of hands on chairs and to add to that, have you ever seen an "altar call" in the Bible?
@@me4019 hi there. I'll continue to do as I feel led. One thing I'm learning is that in my effort to be childlike and teachable, I have to stop trying to 'parent myself' and look to the Lord instead.
As far as people giving their lives to the Lord is concerned, I think it's awesome for them to be born again when the pastor invites them to at the altar call. Jesus said that the wind blows where it wishes, so is everyone who is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus had no scriptural context for being born again, despite all of his years of study, but he chose to listen to Jesus anyway. To add more of a plot twist, Jesus points to Himself as the Son of Man, who was to be lifted up just like the serpent in the wilderness was lifted up by Moses. Nicodemus admittedly just thought Jesus was a good Rabbi who did miracles and signs and taught truth... Although Nicodemus didn't understand, or subscribe to Jesus's interpretation of that event, that didn't stop him from putting his trust in Jesus. He judged Jesus based on the fruit of His life. My point is, whether or not you think that I was being led by the Spirit is unknown, but you can judge by the fruit. What was my intention / motive in praying over that seat? Was it self serving or in service to God? What was the result of that event? Etc.... This is how we exercise discernment. Having our senses trained... Hebrews 5:14. Being suspicious of something you don't know or understand isn't discernment, it's the manifestation of something else. I hope this helps 💕 Bless you.
Spurgeon and Whitfield would be rolling in their graves at what you say and preach.
Exactly
I'm shocked by the comments in this thread! Did we all watch the same video?! I feel like all the Critics are viewing through a lens of suspicion and fear.
We’re watching through the lense of God’s word. Nothing they said was actually biblical. They’re basically experimenting with things, and seeing how it goes. Hmmm...seems legit. 🤔
I actually was hearing from a place of hopefulness. I knew Bill Johnson way back in the day... before Bethel. I had a great deal of admiration for him and learned a lot from him.. I was hoping that what I had "heard" about this grave stuff was some misguided exaggeration. I have heard critics of charismatic ministries with whom I absolutely disagree and I was really hopeful. And people doctor videos all the times these days, so I was open to the idea that allegation by video might not be proof.
But while I have no problem with honoring God's Generals of the past, learning from their lives and witness, even asking God for an impartation of their anointing in our day... I have not seen in scripture [nor did they offer any] anything which suggests God-seeking or God-centered activity at graves would be God-authored. And since there are many scriptures to the contrary, I could not trust any claim that the Holy Spirit is guiding something which contradicts the written Word of God....and certainly no behaviors or spiritual experiences being exalted above the Word of God.
So despite my hopefulness -- the only reason I even clicked on the video - I do not find what Bill shared biblically credible... which saddens me. And will cause me to pray for course correction before it's too late.
Everything must line up with the word of God
Pastor Bill even said..”there are huge Mantels that were upon these deceased preachers that are just laying there idol.. so they go to the graves to ‘soak up’ or absorb that mantel that’s been left on the table..”??
If Father God wanted2 give you a specific mantel… don’t you think He’d have given it directly TO you? Why would He expect us to go to graveyards to ‘soak up’ the leftover mantels from preachers passed on?
It just doesn’t feel like God.. but hey- what do I know..
Scripture talks about not communicating with the dead in any form. This is sorcery!
Have you read 1 Samuel 28? What is your interpretation of that?
@@uke7084 I think Saul grew impatient by seeking a medium even after he cut them off from his land to speak to Samuel who was deceased for advice but was horrified to hear he too would be with Samuel too.. the lord said speaking to the dead was an abomination. Saul wanted a prophecy of what’s to come and was given words that’s gave him fear the word of God say he hasn’t given us the spirit of fear but of love, power, and of sound mind what he did was consort dark spirits to reach the dead.
It’s flirting with the line
Spot. On.
Once again, if a story doesn't make sense, you haven't heard all of the story.
Maybe the story is simply rubbish. As in the case of the numerous anti-Biblical doctrines espoused here.
@@glencabbage52 It is blatantly obviously that you sir are nothing more than a religious gadfly just passing through looking for a morsel of dung. Had you spent any quality time actually soaking in what the Spirit is saying through Bethel you would know the teaching at Bethel is rock solid. Really you would...
@@mikedavis1069 This rubbish is at best, anti-scriptural, and otherwise very close to demonic. The mysticism you try to pass off as Christianity has no place in a true, Biblical, New Testament church.
@@glencabbage52 I'm really sorry you're missing out on what God is doing.
@@mikedavis1069 Given that this isn't from God, I'm happy to be "missing" out on it.
The Bible says to be "sober and vigilant" and to not get entangled with mysticism and superstitions. Bethel "Church" has spit in the face of those admonitions and run headlong into unBiblical and foolish practices. You have replaced the truth of God with the lies of your emotions.
I believe if your heart is to seek God and obey him you shouldn't care about the critics ! Love this explanation, though.
‘Their anointings?‘ ‘scripture is full of honouring the saints of the past?’ ‘We need their anointing?’ What?
Agreed go to the source and get clean anointing and mantels.
How about honoring these Godly men by bringing their preaching back- the sermons set in the Holy Word!! This is what these men, filled with the Holy Spirit, brought.
I had heard these rumors and appreciate the clarification by pastor Bill.
What clarification? A picture speaks louder than words !
This is why I love the leadership of Bethel - you respond to imperfect people and our imperfect ways with wisdom and graciousness. Thank you for representing the Lord and the church so well.
Would love to hear your response on endorsing Todd Bentley!
Please watch RUclips video Hit The Bar Episode 21: Charismatic Day of Infamy.
Essentially, in this video mentioned above, you see that Johnson prophesied that Bentley would have a greater ministry than Moses and was this incredible man of God that was going to change the world. When word got out about Bentley's adultery, abuse and alcoholism, and none of the prophesies came true, Johnson, instead of admitting he made a mistake, continued to endorse him and support him publicly without calling him to repentance. The video will flesh out any further questions, I highly reccommend it!
I’d like to ask when was the last time you prayed for Todd ? Yes everyone knows what happened but it breaks my heart that not only him but many would come back to sonship in Christ.
@@Straightfromshibuya Excellent question! Glad you brought that up. It is so important to pray for those who are caught in sin or false teaching to repent and return to Christ, and I pray frequently for Bentley, Bethel Church and others in my life who are on similar paths. However, as Christians, we are not inly called to compassionately and earnestly pray for those brothers & sisters, we are also called to speak biblical truth into their lives. Love isn't always fluffy and feel goody. Love sometimes looks like calling your brother to repentance and speaking the hard truth.
@@marinavanderwindt875 I do agree with you, and I’m positive people close to him are speaking the truth in love. Our “valiant” online efforts for preaching our version of truth without being in people’s lives is where I think we fail. It’s highly unlikely that my questions toward public figures or organizations will be answered personally in the comment section by Todd or Bethel or anyone else. It also speaks to discipleship as if I have the opportunity to do life with Bill then I have the privilege to speak in his life and vice versa. However I don’t have that privilege I do however have a direct line to God through Christ to intercede on what burdens my heart.
@@Straightfromshibuya All righty bro! God bless!
Notice how Bill Johnson has a whole bible that he never cracks open. And the host just rambles on.
Thank you so much for the gentle response to this topic. Appreciate hearing your hearts and the honor you are giving/seeking!
I appreciate Bethel's desire to try and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and sometimes it gets messy. The alternative of walking in the Spirit is walking in the flesh and my fear is that there is a whole group of Christians who are afraid to step out of their comfort zone to be led by the Holy Spirit. A nonbeliever once said to me, if your God is so powerful ask Him to let me win the big bingo jackpot that night. My immediate reaction was, the bible says don't tempt the Lord but as I was walking away I felt the Spirit say go back and pray that God would demonstrate His power to that man and he would win that jackpot. The next morning to everyone's amazement Donald had won that jackpot and as a result, he gave his heart to the Lord and the fear of God fell all over the warehouse and many more people were saved! As we step out of our comfort zone that is where the Holy Spirit often times will be there to accomplish the miraculous! Be Led By The Holy Spirit!
That's so powerful. What a God we serve.
Hahahahaha. I love how God is willing to allow us to be offended at His ways.... That will crucify the prideful pharisee in us if we allow it to... Imagine, God has a covenant with mankind that they refuse to keep, so He becomes a Man and fulfills the whole thing Himself. Lol! What a slice of humble pie that must have been.
“Just as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth. They are men who are corrupt in mind and worthless in regard to the faith.”
2 Timothy 3:8
“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.”
- Mark 13:21-23
False signs and wonders will FLOURISH. The New Testament is flooded with warnings about it.
DO NOT BE DECEIVED
@@Kris77777 you people have NO IDEA the sin of the Pharisees. But you reference them a lot and accuse people of being Pharisees because they appeal to scripture, while saying don’t judge. Isn’t that a judgment?
The Pharisees practiced Hypocrisy, twisting of Scripture for their own traditions, self-aggrandizement, and rejection of the simple Gospel of Jesus.
Jesus didn’t have an issue with them because they studied scripture and corrected people based on it. It was because they twisted scripture.
I’m so tired of this cognitive dissonance among believers.
“I have applied these things to myself and Apollos because of you, brothers and sisters, so that through us you may learn “not to go beyond what is written,” so that none of you will be puffed up in favor of the one against the other.”
1 Corinthians 4:6
Is Paul also a Pharisee?
Saying that something is written in the Bible does not mean it is. Open the Bible and quote the scripture. The Bible is no longer being taught in some of these churches and believers are beginning to hate scripture. Because their leaders tell them the letter killeth. Except of course they are the ones quoting it out of context. No understanding of what “the letter killeth” even means in context.
The Holy Spirit isn’t messy.
The Physics of Heaven....Bill and others wrote this book. It is completely New Age, watch the youtubes on it. No question.
They're explaining exactly what the rumors suggest. Seeking to get the specific "anointing" from the grave of a dead person.
See it from a Spiritual perspective, this is not talking to the dead but praising God for using this person mightily in his life down here.
Nothing new it’s even the Bible lol read it might help ya. Elisha asked for double of Elijahs anointing
This really didn't address the question / concern.
That's what my husband and I were just talking about. They have skated across the topic for over a decade now yet this is all he comes up with.😥.....I really want Bethel to change and be a true light of Jesus because they do have great influence.
Yes -@ajoy1028
They never do. Because they can't give a good reason.
So Bill is saying we don’t teach grave soaking but then he goes on to say we really don’t try and stop anything and we believe there are past anointing we can get. I can see how students would be completely confused especially if they saw Beni’s pics laying on a grave and hugging another tombstone and all the comments from followers saying that they want to go to the gravesites like that and get anointings. Also, if they follow Ben Fitzgerald (and most everyone from bethel schools does) then that would really add to the confusion about grave soaking. Trying to look at this honestly and from someone on the outside who hears this and it sounds like they are saying we don’t grave suck, we just go to graves and we know past anointing s from these people are still available so we spend time there (sounds like grave soaking). I know it is hard to hear because we all have biases (some people love bill and would defend him to the death and others would come from not liking him and ready to jump on anything).
“There are anointings, mantles, revelations and mysteries that have lain unclaimed, literally where they were left, because the generation that walked in them never passed them on. I believe it’s possible for us to recover realms of anointing, realms of insight, realms of God that have been untended for decades simply by choosing to reclaim them and perpetuate them for future generations.” (Davis, 2012) Physics of Heaven - Bill Johnson
Talk about FALSE teaching.
Think I will stick to reading my Bible and walking in God's holy word and God's truth. 📖🕊🔥
@@luv2travel2000 Yeah, I can’t believe how much they are lying and denying this quote in the interview.
Maybe talking about a prophet passing on his blessing and power. Ala Elijah -> Elisha. Isaac -> Jacob etc. Prophetic blessing before death was very big in the bible. But note it was (usually) before death. Jesus of course being the exception.
Clear as mud. You guys are more dangerous than you have ever been.
How did you draw that conclusion?
@@cptredhorse5156 Because there is enough video out there of Bethel leadership "grave soaking". Either address it or accept you go along with it.
exactly what the pharisees and temple priests said about Jesus...
@@xxstevenicholxx8732 So what if there is? Does one or two people's actions represent their entire church family?
Take a look at their mission statement and find out what they believe about Jesus, the cross, and the resurrection. If the conclusion you reach after that doesn't lead to you considering them brothers and sisters in the Lord, I'm afraid you may be operating in the spirit of the accuser. If so, humble yourself and repent
@@cptredhorse5156 haha correction is biblical. 1 or 2 no. However enough video and still shots of several not 1 or 2 including Bills own wife haha repent. Good one
Oh, amen, amen, & a thousand more amens! I'm so glad ya'll made this video, cuz it really adds some blessed light on it all! Yeah, I heard some of the people, on RUclips, a year or two ago, demeaning Bethel for the "grave-soaking", & at first I kinda believed'em, & quit watching Bill Johnson's RUclips videos, & started watching them, instead... yet, after a week or two, I realized that they were always always CRITICIZING other people/places/practices... & it made my spirit weaker & more fear-based & all, & I realized that one of the things I've really liked about Pastor Johnson's sermons is that my spirit gets filled with hope & light & encouragement from them! Listening to ya'll is just too "real" to quit! And the things you were talking about, here, just seemed to so be re-enforced by what I was reading (& taking notes on), earlier tonight, in Romans 10! Thank ya'll so much! I totally bless ya'll, & may the blessings of the Lord be more so poured upon you all, too!
He's lying through his teeth. Their website has a deleted link of grave soaking. One of many heretical doctrines at Bethel.
You are being deceived by Mr. Johnson. Have you ever watched American Gospel Christ Alone? It exposes a lot of Bill Johnsons disgusting practices and teachings.
@@lynnnnn3 My friend, I know the Scriptures you're referring to --- but I've found your NIV version to be WAYYYY FULLER OF ERRORS than my beloved human preachers! Just saying.
All the books in the New Testament with the exception of one is warning against deception and false teachings/teachers. Does it get you down when you read those versus that tell us to be vigilent and sober and that the devil comes as an angel of light and it is no wonder his ministers masquerade as ministers of light?
Most of bethel's new age mystic teachings are unbiblical with an exceptipn of a few...but remember there is always real cheese in the rat trap.
I pray you seek God's truth in His Word and not from mere men who has proven to be way of the map...as bill said, we should let the Spirit lead us off the map. Some spirit definitely lead him somewhere, but it doesnt line up with the word of God once and for all given to the saints.
If the Word if God isnt the means by which we measure truth, then anytying goes...as bethel has proven. Prophetic uno cards,Destiny cards, sozo, need i list more? Its experience driven, it is not rooted in biblical instruction
Romans 14... All of it. Including: "Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord’s help, they will stand and receive his approval... So why do you condemn another believer? Why do you look down on another believer? Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God...
Yes, each of us will give a personal account to God. So let’s stop condemning each other. Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not cause another believer to stumble and fall... For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. If you serve Christ with this attitude, you will please God, and others will approve of you, too. So then, let us aim for harmony in the church and try to build each other up."
Matthew 7:15-25 KJV
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Galatians 1:7-8 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Ephesians 5:11 Have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
Danced around the subject. Lots of talking but nothing being said.
Exactly
SO many concerning things in this…..how they define “experiencing the Lord” is very telling in what they are seeking. It’s completely heretical and their opinions and trying to rationalize them. Goodness. It’s just so hard to hear these opinions and trying to call them of God. Leading so many people wrong. They will be accountable as we all will. I beg people to find a Bible exegeting church that can help them out of this. I can see right through these guys😞😫
I’m amazed by these comments. Every verse quoted is presented to confirm your decision that these men are operating in a contrary-to-scripture manner! I understand where you are coming from but your intent is not matching the results you desire. I was raised with a form of godliness that lacked power. I was searching for my promise of abundant living. I cried out for more and He answered me!! In the last 4 years, after following Jesus for 42 years, God has answered my cry for more. Here is what He is saying in a nut shell. Be still, repent, receive, discern, judge not, let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, I will never leave you or forsake you, be holy as I am holy, prophesy but desire the greater gift (LOVE), if you want to be great be a servant, consider it joy when encountering trials- you get the picture. The Spirit of God was given to us as a super force to live this obscure life! Please, before you you decide to unravel what you deem as twisted, ask the Holy Spirit any question you want with a humble heart and expect He will show you truth! Here is your litmus to discerning if it’s His voice 1. It will align with His WORD and 2. At first it likely will not sound like something your would say! Please! God is on the throne and He does whatever He pleases! Fear the Lord and resist evil! I love you brother’s and sisters. Please consider humbly asking for eyes that see and ears that hear what the Spirit is saying and doing. We are all chosen for such a time as this so be careful to live as wise and not unwise!!! Please!!
Where in the word of God is written for grave soaking??
This is demonic 😱
Question
Normal answer yes or no
Bills answer 25 mins.. walking around subject.
Very 'in house' interview guys 🤔 pastor & associate pastor in dialogue …. How do you reveal an objective perspective when you obviously support each other 100%. Not sure if there is any truth here ? Your bible is very clearly displayed on the table, yet you haven’t opened it once ?? or even referred to any verse that might support your teaching. Scripture is God's word that should be the clear reference given to support your teaching, not just stories about true & dedicated Christians who led revivals in the past. Very suspect ?? I would say Bethel is definitely verging on false doctrine ??
Love the way these two clowns attempt to dismiss their deception with laughter. Beni Johnson got promoted from part-time grave soaker to full-time grave soaker. You reap what you sow.
We will bow down and humble ourselves before a grave...smh... the presumption, double talk, and disorder elements have barred them from the thing they want. "We are not grave sucking" but we are going to these 'contact points' to get or experience God's pressence or anointing. Occasionally some lay on graves like his wife. No doubt there is this thought of Elisha's bones.
Spurgeon would never condone the practices of Bethel
I certainly agree with you. The deception and blasphemy of Bethel, Johnson, Valloton, Furtick, Hillsong, and all the New Apostolic Reformation are used by Satan to derail the true believers.
@@deotejares1931 not true
Seems like an insatiable thirst for more than just the Holy Spirit...
This is wildly accurate description.
I'm a Spirit filled tongue talking believer but I have to say Kylie I tend to agree with your general observation. I have noted recently believers in my camp putting to much emphasis ( I believe) on the supernatural manifestations or speaking continually on The Holy Spirit is saying this or that and not putting Jesus front and center, or first place. I have tried to tell a friend of mine Jesus must be exulted about everything and wanting or desiring spiritual manifestations and not staying consistently in The Word and focus on Jesus can lead to imbalance and error. Of course he didnt like it, believe it or listen to what I said. I really like some of Bill Johnson's sermons when I listen to them occasional on utube but if they are getting into grave sucking, soaking whatever is correct terminology then they are getting into error probably due to as you say an insatiable appetite for more. That's sad and dangerous. Many a fine man of God has gotten off into error by the end of their ministry, I think believing the whole time they were in the right.
@Gilson Topfstedt I agree with what you said !!!
@@patsyspell1126 and I agree 100% with your Statement. Actually, I'd make mention of Benny Hinn and His less positiv influence on Christianity. Approaches like "good morning Holy Spirit" but neglecting the example of simplicity and sincerity of the Lord Jesus. Mr. Hinn (I actually lose my appreciation for him) focus in Money making. I was in one of his cruzades here in Germany and was chocked by what He did. So...WHEN WE don't follow Jesus as disciples and carry our own Cross daily, but use the Holy Spirit to accommodate to a Life style that pleases ourselves and not the LORD on 1st place, WE are already in error and not following what Jesus tought us in the Gospels. Read John 8:31-32 for that. 🙂 Many Blessings to you wherever you are. 🙏🏻
@@gilsontopfstedt3554 thank you. I agree with all you have said. It takes to long to write all our thoughts and opinions but there are several TV preachers that I do not watch because simply put I just do not bare witness with them. Some of them are Bennie Hinn, Joel Osteen, Rod Parsley, Paula White, Mike Murdock if he even is a preacher, the couple that believes in generational curses their last name starts with a H. There are actually only a few I do watch. Joseph Prince from Singalore, Andrew Womack. Robert Morris, being probably my 3 favorites. I dont depend on man to convince me of anything. I love God's Word, I pray in english and in the spirit, and I trust The Spirit of God to reveal more of Jesus to me and in me because i do realize apart from Jesus I can do nothing. Be blessed.
this dude's wife just had the audacity to disrespect the grave of c.s. lewis...
The mantle
He never cried out for the mantle. He asked for a double portion and the mantle fell on him. Yet he never relied on the mantle ...instead he knew to cry out to the God of Elijah. These small differences make a big difference when someone is trying to convince you that it's ok to honor ancestors in graveyards and pick up mantles...
The bones with the last miracle.
The bones of Elisha contained his last miracle that he was promised. He was given a double portion and he had completed Elijah x2 minus 1 .... No one was given that miracle. It was contained in his bones and it was released to a dead body that was thrown in the grave. A live person diddnt come and pick it up from the grave.
If we were to speculate on this I could understand if they say that the man received the miracle from Elisha himself on the other side .... but I can't understand the idea that we should be rolling in graves or how any man with the holy spirit could understand that from our Bible.
First, I appreciate Bethel even attempting to address this. But, as a Bethel critic, this does nothing to alleviate my concerns. You’re still perpetuating the idea that visiting graves or other “special” places will somehow elicit a response from God. There’s a huge difference between honoring the dead and going to their gravesite for spiritual benefit. What’s the difference between the explanation offered here and the original accusation? “Well, we’re not seeking that person’s anointing by laying on their grave, we just want our own anointing by…visiting that person’s grave!”. What? Moreover, there’s a difference between looking like a fool for sharing the Gospel and looking like a fool for doing things that are both disturbing and also not found in the instructions revealed to us about how to live a Christian life. If someone thinks God’s anointing on their ministry comes from anything but the sovereign will of God, they’re wrong. You cannot provoke God into blessing you by visiting Spurgeon’s bones (who, perhaps ironically, would find Bethel detestable). “Well sometimes you have to take risks to know if it’s the Holy Spirit!” Really? Chapter and verse please. That’d be like whipping out a Ouija board in church and being like, “The Holy Spirit could work through this. We can’t know until we try.” Foolishness. Where does Bethel draw the line? It sounds like a clever ploy from the enemy. “You can do whatever spiritual practices you want!”. It reminds me of Joseph Smith and the Mormons. He said, “I can’t know if my prophecies are from the Devil or from the Lord until I see if they come true.” That’s something the Devil would say to get you to dabble in the occult, which is what Bethel has become: the occult dressed up in Christian terminology.
Anyways, again, I appreciate Bethel joining the discussion.
@Toño Hdz Thanks for your response! I’m not missing the point at all. Bethel creates ambiguity where there is none and then operates in that theater. They say, “we don’t know if this is the Lord until we do it”. Absolutely foolish. I have news for you: if after 2,000 of years church history, you think you have a new idea, you’re probably wrong. And what do you mean if what Beni did wasn’t from God then it was just senseless? I’ll agree, it was indeed senseless, but it’s also evil. No one who is actually in tune with the Holy Spirit would think, “God wants me to go lay on the grave. I’ll get a blessing / anointing that way.” Even Bill understands optics, and he understand that just the optics of that are bad. That should be enough indication that it isn’t something Christians should be doing. Don’t be so dismissive. “She took a risk; we learned. Move on”. Brah, that’s not how it works. Taking a risk is preaching the Gospel, not dabbling in the occult. Can you imagine the things one could justify by saying you’re “just taking a risk for Jesus!”? What we’re risking is our spiritual well-being. How have things gotten so out of hand in Bethel? It’s shocking what they’re doing in the pursuit of something fresh, as if God’s mercy isn’t renewed everyday.
@Toño Hdz If, “go to this particular place and do this particular thing to get an anointing from God” or, “Try random things and see if God responds”, isn’t new theology, I’m not sure what is! Thanks for chatting.
Never satisfied: contend not w a fool
Wether he laugh or rage there is no shalom
Proverbs
Praise the Lord Jesus the Christ!
This is actually a good learning tool, there are so many "holes" in this conversation that don't line up with the Holy scriptures. Not to mention these guys "flippant,at sometimes irreverent" attitude. They mention alot of emotional experience, notice how he says "attacks" on the church instead of "inquiries or factual observations" this is challenging to watch, do an interview with a qualified/objective interviewer.
This is where man worship and honour needs to be addressed. I think its weird and cultish how they stand up for every speaker it's weird. When there is a great speaker who speaks into the community when the people are moved to a standing ovation it won't feel genuine when it is and the anointing is thus not there.
I would really like for bethel to address honour vs man worship after being there and loving their ministry so much I am concerned about this particular area. I get the strong impression they have shifted over into man worship and need to bring clarity and from my perspective a repentance on this.
With respect, poppycock. When you can Show me a clip where Bill Johnson says, "Be healed in the name of Oral Roberts," I'l agree with you. Be blessed.
Just a thought... suspicion is not discernment.
If you are suspicious of the shift from honour -> worship of man, simply checking your own heart and asking the Holy Spirit what’s happening can really help.
Keeping the heart humble before God is the focus. Humility and obedience go hand in hand.
@@wayfarer1101 I'm clearly not saying that all their behaviour is cultish or that they heal in the name of any other person than Jesus. But true christianity is built on personal intimacy and connection with Christ, not connecting to other people and their personal anointings. Speakers can be honoured by being present taking notes and being silent whilst they are speaking. Standing up for every speaker before they have said a word for me is performance based and not genuine. If I received a standing ovation before I spoke i would find it offensive to my message and not genuine. Your reply is out of context and not within the construct of the topic Mr Farer. I felt uncomfortable about this when I was there. I think that this needs addressing.
@@TheRubberDuck01 Yeah I do think this is the Holy Spirit, I felt uneasy in my Spirit about standing up for every speaker. There needs to be a shift back to authentic honour. I don't think this was suspicion but in fact Holy Spirit discernment. It's an ego play from the leaders to feel important before they speak. it's disgraceful and I have made the comment that this is man worship and not true honour and I stand by that statement wholeheartedly.
No church is perfect and when ritual and systems supersede grace and truth it's a slippery slope into deception. The fact that Bill Johnson goes to grave sites for anointings I find really weird too. Read their materials pray on your knees before God but going to man for their anointings rather than the word and the secret place is off centre. i think Bills heart is right on this but this is definitely a red flag for me.
Just to be clear I love Bethel i have been there it is incredible I was definitely touched their profoundly. Their value for the presence of God and worship is AMAZING! But we can all learn and grow and make changes. Peace
This is “damage control” with obvious proof of the teaching of these “mantles” and great desire for “passing on of anointed mantles”… yes you do teach and model this.