Yes, this is a reupload of the Helaena video with a few fixes in it. I'm having issues with that one ATM with youtube, hopefully they get resolved. In the meantime, I still wanted people to watch it so here it is. If you've watched the other one already, please throw a like or comment for support it would mean a lot to me. And if the issues get fixed, then I'll set the other one back to public.
Beast beneath the floor boards... Boats are made of boards, snake is the biblical beast, boats sail the seas... Beware of the Seasnake! CORLYS IS BEHIND IT ALL! He is not dead or even wounded he has been time travelling Hot Pie this whole time!
Rather than night dreams, it really seems Helaena is in the dream world at all times. That's why she seems distracted, and why other "dreamers" would want to drown themselves in drink. They're not upset by what they remember from the night before, they're upset by what they experience every day, every night, all the time.
No seems like she isn't a dragon dreams who can see actual visions of the past or future but she just prophesizes things without even knowing herself ..
@@tanxilhanif If she did know her own future, don't you think that she would stop it, or attempt to? Lol she is doing exactly what you said. Otherwise, she'd be insane.
I absolutely loved Helaena from the newest episode. Jace and Halaena dancing was just too cute. In another world we would have been graced with King Jacaerys I with his Queen Helaena.
@@tashacrawford770 If Alicent had accepted Rhaenyra's proposal and Helaena married Jace the whole mess that will follow would've been avoided and everybody would've been happy.
@@mori1bund Yes but except Alicent.. She believes bastards are bad, born from filth and not trustworthy.. because she is so religious. That is what most westerosi believe.
Dany: For my wedding he gave me three petrified dragon eggs. He believed … the world believed … that the ages had turned them to stone. How many centuries has it been since dragons roamed the skies? But I dreamt that if I carried those eggs into a great fire, they would hatch. When I stepped into the fire, my own people thought I was mad. But when the fire burned out, I was unhurt, the Mother of Dragons. Do you understand? I’m no ordinary woman. My dreams come true.
And hands turn loom , looming over someone also means to stand over someone with a threatening intent . And alicent takes the knife and nearly tries to cut luke but is stopped and the hand "looms" over them . Maybe im overanalyzing but hey thats what prophecies be like😂
I wish we could have had a moment with Viserys and Hal. He wanted to be a dreamer and was convinced that ONE dream he had was a prophetic one. You'd think he would notice right away that she's special. She's a dreamer and probably on the spectrum. You'd think Viserys would have had a conversation or two with someone about his daughter.
A missed opportunity for sure. They might've found comfort in their shared gift, though Halaena's visions are definitely more prophetic and frightening.
I think Viserys dream is not a vision, but more of his manifestation. He wanted a son so bad he start dreaming about it. Helaena is a seer, her dreams are visions.
I don't think he wanted a son at first. He started to see that dream out of nothing when Rhaenyra was just a baby. It seemed like a dream but judging from the book+show, it was actually a warning but he misinterpreted it as a good sign. He was so sure Aemma was pregnant with a boy when everyone told him she wasn't, did he? He surprised himself too. Viserys has always been a dreamer but he keep doubting himself. But his gut feeling guides him on the right path even though he doubted his own mind
@@leachimy24 No it's not. His vision was abt the Dance. It's a actually a warning but Viserys misinterpret it as a good sign. The male babe he sees with Aegon crown was truly Aegon, his son. The sound of thundering swords and splintering shields is the battle in the Rook's Rest. The first battle in the Dance. Dragon roar could be Sunfyre roaring in anger bcs he was badly injured and besieged by Aegon's enemy. But also could be Meleys and Sunfyre screaming in agony. By the end of EP8 after he met Rhae and Daemon's sons, he's so sure, he made the right choice. Bcs Viserys is superstitious, Rhae and Daemon unintentionally named their son Aegon is like a good sign to him. He's sure, it was never his Aegon he dreamt of. It was their Aegon. It still wrong tho, but he still made the right choice by encouraging Rhae til the end
@@leachimy24 I'm not talking abt Aegon's I dream in particular, I'm talking abt Viserys dream abt the male heir who wear Aegon crown. But okay, the Aegon's I dream he said is mostly abt the bloodline. He's NOT talking specifically abt Jon, he's talking abt how Rhaenyra and her bloodline has part in the prophecy. If you pay a close attention abt what he said "the Prince that was promised *...it was you.* You must do this." So Viserys thinks it was Rhae bcs "Prince" in High Valyrian has no gender. In asoiaf book, Maester Aemon thinks it was Dany. Rhaegar thinks it was him. Malisandre thinks it was Jon. But Malisandre said to Varys on GOT S7 "I've done my part. I've brought Ice and Fire together"
@@greenforce68 I disagreed. Just because one person have the gift of Vision doesn't means everyone else does too. Also Viserys dreams while Helaena sees. She's not asleep when she have her visions.
I am also wondering if Heleana is learning to control her dream state because the family dinner is the first time we see Heleana behaving "neurotypical" as we call it now.
I'm autistic and related a lot with Helaena based on the description here! Masking is a thing girls with autism start learning out of necessity. It's cool to see a good portrayal, even if it isn't intentional.
Her ending is going to be devastating. I loved her character in the books but I love it in the show even more. She has Bran level potential as far as lore and dream/greenseeing.
Fireflies are often symbolic of magic and mystery. Makes sense as they must have mystified people for thousands of years, especially during times before electricity. I think it's a subtle nod to his inherent magical abilities.
I love how the dragons need to be won over for each side the same way you'd try to win over allies or a powerful lord. Makes sense. It's like fighting over flying nuclear tanks.
Helaena's show portrayal as sweet, innocent, and mysterious will really make the B&C event a much more emotional gut punch. I'm both looking, and not looking forward to seeing it.
This reminds me of how I felt waiting to see Glenn, from The Walking Dead, get his head smashed into the concrete. I knew it was horrifying from the comics and was waiting to see how brutal it looked onscreen. With the B&C event, I'm waiting to see how controversial the aftermath will be. What happened there, might be worse than the Red Wedding in my opinion, just psychologically.
I think the tragedy is that these revelations are only seen in hindsight. Even we misinterpret them. Just like Alicent did in that final scene with Viserys.
@@antissocialblackcat2099 she is the daughter, sister, wife and mother of greens. She is a green by blood and marriage. I'll agree she has no part in the scheming and should of been married to Luce, but still a green.
@@jerimeyperry3282.... If we go by blood, black and green should be the same side! The colors are not about blood, they are about political alinment and engagement. She is not engaged, she just happened to exist like Viserys, that's also why rhynera holds no grudge against her.
@@jerimeyperry3282 If she's a green she's a black by that order of thinking. the greens and the blacks are rival factions, as I see it she's a Targaryen, being a black. She doesn't belong to any faction, just because she lives with her mother and brothers.
@@antissocialblackcat2099 by blood they are all Targaryen, but Helena and her brothers are all half Hightower so they are atleast half green. She is aligned with her mother, brothers/husband and children are all greens in the green line of succession even if none of it was her idea or choice. Civil Wars are tragic, especially when fought in the same family, in this case needlessly over the ambition of the mother and second son grandfather. Helena is a good and sweet woman who deserved better, but she is still and always will be a green. There is a line In the sand it is drawn in blood. Which side of the line you're born on depends on who your mother was. Her mother was a Hightower and the leader of the greens, she is a green
In the books they are very close. Helaena brought her children every night to his father Viserys who told them night bed stories of his time as the rider of Balerion.
I like to think the bugs are a reference to GRRM's Sandkings and the author's meta perspective that humans in medieval times operated in a eusocial structure similar to colonies of bees, ants and beetles. In that story the Sandkings were "similar to insects" living in a pen and (at first) they couldn't "see" the nature of their own existence nor the truth about the "all knowing" God who put them there. Which is why I find Helaena's comment about the millipede - "it has eyes, but it cannot see" - so intriguing. The all live in her world but only Helaena can "see" it.
Oysters are also associated with pearls and pearls with royalty. Notice how every oyster is open (which kills them) and missing pearls. That could symbolize Helaena kneeling before the royal Tageryan bloodline that all lost their lives. A grave of empty shells. The spider cannot benefit from an empty shell. The alliance ultimately shatters them both, leaving only spider guts left to fill empty cracked shells.🐚
I think you're right: the "hand turns loom" ditty means Otto manipulated dragons of flesh (the Blacks and Greens) to weave dragons-that is, they call their banners.
I watch several channels that do breakdowns of HotD but, I must say, I feel that yours is the most insightful. None of the others that I watch put together the possibility that Larys Strong could be a warg or greenseer. Nothing we see in the show is put there by chance or by accident. The rats definitely mean something. Does the comment she makes in this last episode "beware the beast beneath the boards" foreshadow Blood and Cheese? Keep up the good work!
That prophecy on driffmark is the moment i was like "wait...what'd you say"??? And realized shes foreshadowng whats to come...so i had to go back and listen to all of her dialogue to peep everything coming
I think the connection here is actually connecting us back to GOT. George loves to play with names and it’s clear that some of these HOTD characters mimic the characters is the original series. I believe Larys is supposed to be the evil version of Varys from GOT. Varys was called The Spider aka the master of whispers. It seems like Larys is a mix of littlefinger and Varys. Plus there is the connection with Healena holding the spider and she is also knitting a spider design in episode 9
it was worth getting thousands eyes but still it wasn't enough, because what the greens never understood is that Rheanyra her kids were meant to be the heir. It was fate. As it was fate that Danearys was born and became the mother of dragons and Jon Snow was born and became the son of ice and fire.
After the iconic moment for Alicent's green dress I'm hoping we get a better moment for the black dress cause if all we get is the episode 8 dress it's very underwhelming.
Rheanyra actually preferred red Myrrish dresses. She wore black at the famous tourney that gave the names black and green because it was the color of the main Targaryen house. The factions are named as such due to the dress colors, but the people themselves wore different colors
@@SantomPh yes so the show has obviously not done the tourney and now has to make it clear in another way as to why the factions are called the greens and blacks. They've made it obvious with the greens by giving Alicent her moment walking in in the green dress. They haven't made it obvious why the blacks are called the blacks. Since they chose to keep it as the dress colour for Alicent it stands to reason they'll keep it dress colour for Rhaenyra as well. She wore a black dress for episode 8 but if that's all she gets it's no where near as impactful as Alicents moment.
Great microscopic job!You have an amazing analytical brain! The way you peel the layers of each onion skin is awesome! My hat to you and a courtesy to bout!😊😊
Interesting...I thought the firefly was like Littlefinger's Mockingbird, a personal sigil to mark that they have personal ambitions outside of families or houses. I didn't really see the connection to Helaena until you pointed it out. Capturing the spider in the oyster shell, I figured she was trapping it until she could pin it to her collection. Although...spiders and their webs have a long association with weaving. Arachne, the weaver who claimed to be a better weaver than Athena and was turned into a spider when she lost. Could it be that Helaena saw that the 'threads' of her fate and her family's has already been spun, and was taking that frustration out on the nearest creature?
I thought of the same reference as soon as I realized she had prophetic tendencies. I'd love for her to become more active in trying to warn people of what's too come and seeing them reacting to her and her dreams.
My guess is Larys may have put the symbol on his minions because they can't tell each other that they're involved without tongues, and he probably didn't send them in 1 group together
The irony is that Viserys is the dragon dreamer who keep doubting himself. And wasting his whole life being superstitious without knowing his daughter is really talking in cryptic code (I think Helaena mastering her dreams better than Viserys). IF Alicent let Helaena marry to Jace, I'm dead sure Rhae would pay attention to everything she said bcs Rhae herself is just like her father, a bit superstitious. Only Targaryen, like king Jaeherys, who understand what she's suffered, that's why Alicent didn't pay much attention to her words bcs she didn't know what's going on. And judging how clueless Viserys was abt Helaena, I think he rarely sees her
When i first read the prophecy…. “Glowing like sunset a red sword in the hand of a blue eye king who cast no shadow” pretty sure thats stannis. He has a glowing sword, blue eyes and has no shadow coz the red lady used his shadow to kill Renly. But it could be the night king to I suppose. Maybe his ice like swords is reflecting an actual sunset?🤷
An interesting moment I noticed is that when daemon kills vaemond, helaena jumps and covers her ears instead of covering her eyes. Just thought it was a detail that could make more sense later
The only thing I can think of when hearing Helaena talking is blood and cheese, and I wonder if she doesn’t already know what’s in store for her and is unable to stop it from happening.
I think it's also important to note Helaena's humanity was rooted in her ability to experience the present. For examples, her misunderstanding the double meaning behind calling her nephews "strong" as well as her struggles immediately before and after making what is an impossible choice. Many times, seers and dreamers are portrayed as completely aloof or dismissive of others, but she's so kind.
Anyone notice how the Spider that was employed as Master Of Whispers in GOT has almost the same name as the unofficial Master Of Whispers that serves Alicent? Larys is one letter different from Varys.
It's a shame her mother and grandfather's self centred greed for power did not allow her to marry Rhaenyras oldest child, she likely would have led to a much, much happier life for her, Jeremy children and all of the realm.
I believe that she is in both realms- one foot in the realm of dreams/seeing and one foot in the well realm of reality. Remember when Allicent had such a problem getting her to calm down as a babe? I can guarantee you that baby was seeing things that scared her. That is why she (Allicent) could not calm her own child. You see the distress on her face when when she cannot calm her. As a person watching in the audience, you can tell that she feels overwhelmed as a mother. Well also going through the Game of Thrones, and being pushed around and abused by her own Father (Otto). We know that she (Heleana) can see. She has been given the gift of sight. Sure, it may come out garbled, but what premonition or prophecy has never come out garbled? Or lost in translation? Remember Hodor (or should I say, "Hold the door")? I'd like to add, remember to listen closely to what she is saying. Don't take it word-for-word. Pull from it. Look at the surrounding conditions. Add it up from there. Trust me.
the bug reference is also related in parts of conversation - like when they aren't like the spiders of Egypt or something - they referenced it in game of thrones i believe too. theres definitely significance / symbolism there
I still dream of Rhaenyra inheriting the Iron Throne and that the Dance did not happen and Jacaerys being married to Helaena and living happily with each other and eventually ruling as both King and Queen regents where Westeros continues its golden age in the Age of King Jace and Queen Helen but my sweet summer child...
What if larys strong is a greenseer like bran and the hint is that he's also a cripple :D also another very interesting theory i read somewhere is that he's turning into the rats you see around the castle at random scenes. Not entirely random, as important things appear to happen when the rat is around there...
If Larys is a smash up of Littlefinger and Varys- you are saying he’s the Spider, right? The spider Helaena plays with and embroiders and is obviously fixated on actually represents Larys. So why is she so fixated on him? The beast beneath the boards is yet to come- Rhaenys broke through a stone floor, not a wooden one, and did not harm the Greens. I think the Beast beneath the boards is blood and cheese. And I think Larys is cheese. Helaena knows that the events of that day will eventually lead to her ultimate showdown with the spider. I find it super creepy that she embroiders that spider while sitting over her children. And it’s weird that she won’t let Alicent touch her. I know she’s been hinted as being on the spectrum but somebody touched her as she is a mother. Why the constant flinching at Alicent’s touch? Alicent who enabled Larys to rise to power - and isn’t the Queen tied up watching the whole blood and cheese thing? Or am i not remembering correctly? I’m super excited to see how this all plays out.
I am not sure if you saw the new episodes of season 2, but you were right about the beasts under the boards but i have a feeling there is more to it than blood and cheese
I feel like if Alicent wasn’t so obsessed with Rhaenyras kids and figuring out their dad & viserys wasn’t sick and trying to defend rhaenyra they would’ve caught on but Alicent & aegon would’ve used her so much in the war
I thought they might be doing a Little Finger and Sansa esq connection with Laryis and Helaena. But it seems Helaena is too deep into her own world. I thought at first she was just a bit aloof but she seems really disconnected with reality. Although she seemed to really like dancing with Jace. It was like the first time someone paid her any attention. It really is a shame. If Daemon and Rhaynera just stayed closer to home they could have helped her. Daemon with all the reading he was doing in Essos may have been able to understand her.
Maybe she's detached as the 3 eyed raven will be later... because her power is too much and overwelming so that she can't fight her sight and is fatalist about it
About the straight cut from the spider and shell to Larys Strong. The cut isn't acrually straight from Helaena to Larrys. The cut is from Healenas hands to Allicent. The camera then quickly focus to Larrys. This entails that Larrys is not observing Haelena at all but are as unconcerned with her as the rest. His eyes are instead at Allicent and whatever Haelena is seeing probably concerns Larrys and Allicent and what their futureholds...
I assumed that Larys Strong uses a firefly because his own preferred method of assassination is by fire; torching his brother, his father and Mysaria's manse. As to why his assassins wear his identifying mark - well I rather think it's because the show wants us, the audience, to be in no doubt as to who is behind it all, and because the writers don't have the imagination of George Aargh Aargh Martin.
In the original script of GOT ending, Bran plays with a beetle that crawled onto his just before got elected as king. Also tyrions cousin who also played with bugs.
Hi Joe -- do you have any comments on the possibility of Aemond being the father of Helaena's twins? Makes the "a son for a son" thing in B&C make more sense. It's an interesting thought I don't fully buy into but it was an entertaining thought!
I forget the names but in one of the tales Dunk and Egg there’s a fun throwaway line about fire flies being the cause of a major fire. In Dorne, there’s a water dispute during a major drought and a large fire appears. Funny enough the lady who makes the comment about the fire fly being the cause of the fire has a spider for her sigel.
It stands out to me that when her mother tries to touch her, to comfort her or whatever, she always flinches. I can't recall if the books talks about it. I need to re-read it.
Another great vid, I don't think larys is a green sewer, I just think that he is just ignored like a statue. But maybe. I need ur opinion on something, to me it's almost like the writers are trying to make Alicent more likeable. Alicent was truly a major part in Usurping the throne. During the the counsel meeting it was almost like Otto was forcing the situation. Don't forget in the books Alicent had the chambermaids locked up, no bells, the King was dead for some time before anyone new!! And See Criston opened Beesbrys throat
Helaena’s comments on the centipede/millipede sections had a few interesting points: She said each section had two legs and then remarked that the last section had no legs. Sounds like Bran? Or a Targaryen Prince who took the Black who represents the end of the Targaryen line? How many Targaryen kings are there? 240 sounds too high a number. Could she be numbering how many dragon riders there will be? Is she naming Bran or Jon as the final “legless” Targaryen? If she is counting dragon riders, does that mean one of them will ride a dragon? Jon rode one in the show, but could he become a rider in the book? Anyone else curious about Helaena’s insect math?
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Yes, this is a reupload of the Helaena video with a few fixes in it. I'm having issues with that one ATM with youtube, hopefully they get resolved. In the meantime, I still wanted people to watch it so here it is. If you've watched the other one already, please throw a like or comment for support it would mean a lot to me. And if the issues get fixed, then I'll set the other one back to public.
Are you gonna do a video about her latest riddle? Something about the beast under the boards or something like that
At some point yeah, my next one won't be about her though
@@JoeMagician Any hint of what she was talking about?
Beast beneath the floor boards... Boats are made of boards, snake is the biblical beast, boats sail the seas... Beware of the Seasnake! CORLYS IS BEHIND IT ALL! He is not dead or even wounded he has been time travelling Hot Pie this whole time!
Pin this comment so people see
Rather than night dreams, it really seems Helaena is in the dream world at all times. That's why she seems distracted, and why other "dreamers" would want to drown themselves in drink. They're not upset by what they remember from the night before, they're upset by what they experience every day, every night, all the time.
Is she autistic?
No seems like she isn't a dragon dreams who can see actual visions of the past or future but she just prophesizes things without even knowing herself ..
@@tanxilhanif Are you saying she has prophetic Tourettes Syndrome?
@@tanxilhanif exactly!
@@tanxilhanif If she did know her own future, don't you think that she would stop it, or attempt to? Lol she is doing exactly what you said. Otherwise, she'd be insane.
I absolutely loved Helaena from the newest episode. Jace and Halaena dancing was just too cute. In another world we would have been graced with King Jacaerys I with his Queen Helaena.
I loved that. That was probably the nicest thing some did for her. She would of been happier with Jace.
@@tashacrawford770 If Alicent had accepted Rhaenyra's proposal and Helaena married Jace the whole mess that will follow would've been avoided and everybody would've been happy.
@@mori1bund Yes but except Alicent.. She believes bastards are bad, born from filth and not trustworthy.. because she is so religious. That is what most westerosi believe.
@@mori1bund if Jacaerys hadn't been an obvious bastard, they would have been married.
@@mori1bund I don’t think so , at this point nothing could stop this upcoming war
Dany: For my wedding he gave me three petrified dragon eggs. He believed … the world believed … that the ages had turned them to stone. How many centuries has it been since dragons roamed the skies? But I dreamt that if I carried those eggs into a great fire, they would hatch. When I stepped into the fire, my own people thought I was mad. But when the fire burned out, I was unhurt, the Mother of Dragons. Do you understand? I’m no ordinary woman. My dreams come true.
Yes, Daenerys is another dreamer. Just like Daenys, Aegon I, Viserys I, and Helaena
@@greenforce68 Daenerys is the Dreamer until her egg hatch later this is kind of different because she see Quaithe
@@queenxx1690wdym?
“Hand turns loom”= Otto making the succession problem worse
In the prophecy about sewing dragons of flesh, we also have both Aemond and Rhaenyra getting stitches.
Nice observation
I missed that one! There are so many different takes on that one scene with the spider. Good call!
Think its more to do with that all dragons will die and only been seen in tapestry...
And hands turn loom ,
looming over someone also means to stand over someone with a threatening intent . And alicent takes the knife and nearly tries to cut luke but is stopped and the hand "looms" over them . Maybe im overanalyzing but hey thats what prophecies be like😂
I wish we could have had a moment with Viserys and Hal. He wanted to be a dreamer and was convinced that ONE dream he had was a prophetic one. You'd think he would notice right away that she's special. She's a dreamer and probably on the spectrum. You'd think Viserys would have had a conversation or two with someone about his daughter.
Seems like he only cared about his oldest Daughter..
But maybe there are some deleted scenes where they talk.
A missed opportunity for sure. They might've found comfort in their shared gift, though Halaena's visions are definitely more prophetic and frightening.
i think it’s good juxtaposition, even someone who believes in Targaryean prophetic dreams is too close to earth to recognize a real Dreamer.
Of all Alicent's kids, she's the one I like
Me to
I think Viserys dream is not a vision, but more of his manifestation. He wanted a son so bad he start dreaming about it. Helaena is a seer, her dreams are visions.
I don't think he wanted a son at first. He started to see that dream out of nothing when Rhaenyra was just a baby. It seemed like a dream but judging from the book+show, it was actually a warning but he misinterpreted it as a good sign. He was so sure Aemma was pregnant with a boy when everyone told him she wasn't, did he? He surprised himself too. Viserys has always been a dreamer but he keep doubting himself. But his gut feeling guides him on the right path even though he doubted his own mind
@@leachimy24 No it's not. His vision was abt the Dance. It's a actually a warning but Viserys misinterpret it as a good sign. The male babe he sees with Aegon crown was truly Aegon, his son. The sound of thundering swords and splintering shields is the battle in the Rook's Rest. The first battle in the Dance. Dragon roar could be Sunfyre roaring in anger bcs he was badly injured and besieged by Aegon's enemy. But also could be Meleys and Sunfyre screaming in agony.
By the end of EP8 after he met Rhae and Daemon's sons, he's so sure, he made the right choice. Bcs Viserys is superstitious, Rhae and Daemon unintentionally named their son Aegon is like a good sign to him. He's sure, it was never his Aegon he dreamt of. It was their Aegon. It still wrong tho, but he still made the right choice by encouraging Rhae til the end
@@leachimy24 I'm not talking abt Aegon's I dream in particular, I'm talking abt Viserys dream abt the male heir who wear Aegon crown. But okay, the Aegon's I dream he said is mostly abt the bloodline. He's NOT talking specifically abt Jon, he's talking abt how Rhaenyra and her bloodline has part in the prophecy. If you pay a close attention abt what he said "the Prince that was promised *...it was you.* You must do this." So Viserys thinks it was Rhae bcs "Prince" in High Valyrian has no gender. In asoiaf book, Maester Aemon thinks it was Dany. Rhaegar thinks it was him. Malisandre thinks it was Jon. But Malisandre said to Varys on GOT S7 "I've done my part. I've brought Ice and Fire together"
@@greenforce68Viserys dream was about Jon Snow
@@greenforce68 I disagreed. Just because one person have the gift of Vision doesn't means everyone else does too. Also Viserys dreams while Helaena sees. She's not asleep when she have her visions.
I am also wondering if Heleana is learning to control her dream state because the family dinner is the first time we see Heleana behaving "neurotypical" as we call it now.
normal?
@@ieradossantos I believe the PC term is "neurotypical".
I'm autistic and related a lot with Helaena based on the description here! Masking is a thing girls with autism start learning out of necessity. It's cool to see a good portrayal, even if it isn't intentional.
Yooooo the Dale Gribble “POCKET SAND” reference took me out! 😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂
Her ending is going to be devastating. I loved her character in the books but I love it in the show even more. She has Bran level potential as far as lore and dream/greenseeing.
Which of the books is season 2 inspired from ?
@@missnyc5727 the whole show is from the book fire & blood
If so, let us hope that she isn't anywhere near being as inutile and impertinent as Bran the Mushy Potato was.
Helaena talking about the centipede's feet to Alicent, and then her becoming the foot fetish of Larys Strong.
😂😂😂😂
Fireflies are often symbolic of magic and mystery. Makes sense as they must have mystified people for thousands of years, especially during times before electricity. I think it's a subtle nod to his inherent magical abilities.
I love how the dragons need to be won over for each side the same way you'd try to win over allies or a powerful lord. Makes sense. It's like fighting over flying nuclear tanks.
Helaena's show portrayal as sweet, innocent, and mysterious will really make the B&C event a much more emotional gut punch. I'm both looking, and not looking forward to seeing it.
How about when she flings herself from the window and impales herself on the spikes
This reminds me of how I felt waiting to see Glenn, from The Walking Dead, get his head smashed into the concrete. I knew it was horrifying from the comics and was waiting to see how brutal it looked onscreen.
With the B&C event, I'm waiting to see how controversial the aftermath will be. What happened there, might be worse than the Red Wedding in my opinion, just psychologically.
She reminds me of Luna lovegood
what is the B& C event if you don't mind telling me?
@@aryansinha8259 Blood and Cheese :>
She was amazing in Ep 8 she doesn't speak much however when she does she spitting facts
Anyone remember when Daenerys said in quarth to the spice masters that she shouldn’t be underestimated b/c the dreams she has do eventually come true?
Helaena is my fav now, the way she sat down after her dinner toast 😂
I wonder if Helaena ever will refer to the song of ice and fire and that Aegon was never supposed to be king.
I think the tragedy is that these revelations are only seen in hindsight. Even we misinterpret them. Just like Alicent did in that final scene with Viserys.
@@alicecaraballo3910 so what did he mean? What did she misinterpret?
I hate the greens, but Helena has a sweet soul and I like her a lot. Heartbreaking
Sh'e not really "a green". Just her father and mother's daughter, and sister and wife to Aegon.
@@antissocialblackcat2099 she is the daughter, sister, wife and mother of greens. She is a green by blood and marriage. I'll agree she has no part in the scheming and should of been married to Luce, but still a green.
@@jerimeyperry3282.... If we go by blood, black and green should be the same side!
The colors are not about blood, they are about political alinment and engagement. She is not engaged, she just happened to exist like Viserys, that's also why rhynera holds no grudge against her.
@@jerimeyperry3282 If she's a green she's a black by that order of thinking. the greens and the blacks are rival factions, as I see it she's a Targaryen, being a black. She doesn't belong to any faction, just because she lives with her mother and brothers.
@@antissocialblackcat2099 by blood they are all Targaryen, but Helena and her brothers are all half Hightower so they are atleast half green. She is aligned with her mother, brothers/husband and children are all greens in the green line of succession even if none of it was her idea or choice. Civil Wars are tragic, especially when fought in the same family, in this case needlessly over the ambition of the mother and second son grandfather. Helena is a good and sweet woman who deserved better, but she is still and always will be a green. There is a line In the sand it is drawn in blood. Which side of the line you're born on depends on who your mother was. Her mother was a Hightower and the leader of the greens, she is a green
Great video as always, I hope the reupload satisfies the whims of the algorithm gods 🙏
i wish we had scenes with viserys and helaena :( i imagine them bonding over his model of valyria and their dreams
In the books they are very close. Helaena brought her children every night to his father Viserys who told them night bed stories of his time as the rider of Balerion.
Helaena is fascinating, thanks for the video.
I like to think the bugs are a reference to GRRM's Sandkings and the author's meta perspective that humans in medieval times operated in a eusocial structure similar to colonies of bees, ants and beetles. In that story the Sandkings were "similar to insects" living in a pen and (at first) they couldn't "see" the nature of their own existence nor the truth about the "all knowing" God who put them there. Which is why I find Helaena's comment about the millipede - "it has eyes, but it cannot see" - so intriguing. The all live in her world but only Helaena can "see" it.
You got a little of Helaena in yourself 🔮🙃
Oysters are also associated with pearls and pearls with royalty. Notice how every oyster is open (which kills them) and missing pearls. That could symbolize Helaena kneeling before the royal Tageryan bloodline that all lost their lives. A grave of empty shells. The spider cannot benefit from an empty shell. The alliance ultimately shatters them both, leaving only spider guts left to fill empty cracked shells.🐚
I believe when Haleana says “beware the beast below the boards” in the latest episode is related to blood and cheese
The actress said it was actually about the dragon coming through the floor
I think you're right: the "hand turns loom" ditty means Otto manipulated dragons of flesh (the Blacks and Greens) to weave dragons-that is, they call their banners.
I’m so glad “Krispy Cole” has caught on 😂
Ser crispen he shall never be known by another name again
Ser Krusty
Very well written! Thank you!
I watch several channels that do breakdowns of HotD but, I must say, I feel that yours is the most insightful. None of the others that I watch put together the possibility that Larys Strong could be a warg or greenseer. Nothing we see in the show is put there by chance or by accident. The rats definitely mean something. Does the comment she makes in this last episode "beware the beast beneath the boards" foreshadow Blood and Cheese? Keep up the good work!
That prophecy on driffmark is the moment i was like "wait...what'd you say"??? And realized shes foreshadowng whats to come...so i had to go back and listen to all of her dialogue to peep everything coming
I think the connection here is actually connecting us back to GOT. George loves to play with names and it’s clear that some of these HOTD characters mimic the characters is the original series. I believe Larys is supposed to be the evil version of Varys from GOT. Varys was called The Spider aka the master of whispers. It seems like Larys is a mix of littlefinger and Varys. Plus there is the connection with Healena holding the spider and she is also knitting a spider design in episode 9
it was worth getting thousands eyes but still it wasn't enough, because what the greens never understood is that Rheanyra her kids were meant to be the heir. It was fate. As it was fate that Danearys was born and became the mother of dragons and Jon Snow was born and became the son of ice and fire.
After the iconic moment for Alicent's green dress I'm hoping we get a better moment for the black dress cause if all we get is the episode 8 dress it's very underwhelming.
Rheanyra actually preferred red Myrrish dresses. She wore black at the famous tourney that gave the names black and green because it was the color of the main Targaryen house. The factions are named as such due to the dress colors, but the people themselves wore different colors
@@SantomPh yes so the show has obviously not done the tourney and now has to make it clear in another way as to why the factions are called the greens and blacks. They've made it obvious with the greens by giving Alicent her moment walking in in the green dress. They haven't made it obvious why the blacks are called the blacks. Since they chose to keep it as the dress colour for Alicent it stands to reason they'll keep it dress colour for Rhaenyra as well. She wore a black dress for episode 8 but if that's all she gets it's no where near as impactful as Alicents moment.
@@madalynnr9940 ive read somewhere that in Old Town when the hightowers call their bannermen to war, the beacon on the High tower is lit green
@@lexiladylou3569 Yes that’s exactly right
@@lexiladylou3569 Yes that’s exactly right
Great microscopic job!You have an amazing analytical brain! The way you peel the layers of each onion skin is awesome! My hat to you and a courtesy to bout!😊😊
Interesting...I thought the firefly was like Littlefinger's Mockingbird, a personal sigil to mark that they have personal ambitions outside of families or houses. I didn't really see the connection to Helaena until you pointed it out.
Capturing the spider in the oyster shell, I figured she was trapping it until she could pin it to her collection.
Although...spiders and their webs have a long association with weaving. Arachne, the weaver who claimed to be a better weaver than Athena and was turned into a spider when she lost. Could it be that Helaena saw that the 'threads' of her fate and her family's has already been spun, and was taking that frustration out on the nearest creature?
I believe her character is based on Cassandra of Troy had the same gift of prophecy. Everyone thought she was crazy.
I thought of the same reference as soon as I realized she had prophetic tendencies. I'd love for her to become more active in trying to warn people of what's too come and seeing them reacting to her and her dreams.
My guess is Larys may have put the symbol on his minions because they can't tell each other that they're involved without tongues, and he probably didn't send them in 1 group together
Couldn't they just point to their missing tongues?
@@kshaur13 it would be hard to be a spy if you couldn't say anything
The irony is that Viserys is the dragon dreamer who keep doubting himself. And wasting his whole life being superstitious without knowing his daughter is really talking in cryptic code (I think Helaena mastering her dreams better than Viserys). IF Alicent let Helaena marry to Jace, I'm dead sure Rhae would pay attention to everything she said bcs Rhae herself is just like her father, a bit superstitious. Only Targaryen, like king Jaeherys, who understand what she's suffered, that's why Alicent didn't pay much attention to her words bcs she didn't know what's going on. And judging how clueless Viserys was abt Helaena, I think he rarely sees her
When i first read the prophecy…. “Glowing like sunset a red sword in the hand of a blue eye king who cast no shadow” pretty sure thats stannis. He has a glowing sword, blue eyes and has no shadow coz the red lady used his shadow to kill Renly. But it could be the night king to I suppose. Maybe his ice like swords is reflecting an actual sunset?🤷
An interesting moment I noticed is that when daemon kills vaemond, helaena jumps and covers her ears instead of covering her eyes. Just thought it was a detail that could make more sense later
What is it foreshadowing?
@@bills1967 damn I would love to know more
Me too! What did it mean?! 🤔
I just took it to mean she didn't like the noises of the chaos but that's also possible
@@merrittanimation7721 Same I thought that it was a normal reaction. But you we would never know unless we read the source material.
The only thing I can think of when hearing Helaena talking is blood and cheese, and I wonder if she doesn’t already know what’s in store for her and is unable to stop it from happening.
I think it's also important to note Helaena's humanity was rooted in her ability to experience the present. For examples, her misunderstanding the double meaning behind calling her nephews "strong" as well as her struggles immediately before and after making what is an impossible choice. Many times, seers and dreamers are portrayed as completely aloof or dismissive of others, but she's so kind.
Today's episode confirmed your theory. A beast underneath the board!!!
This is the first video I’ve seen of yours and I’m impressed. Definitely subbing! You’ve done great work!
Awesome! Thank you!
Excellent video as always.
Already watched, but rewatching and commenting for the algorithm gods. Thanks for all your hard work!
Same here
Hah! Throwback to WoW in your lil clip, and the Nornir in norse Mythos. Fun little tbs love it. Your videos are the best!
I remember when she even said that the rats are watching
You can't even imagine my reaction when I connected "I'm afraid of rats" scene and the rat catcher beheading her kid
Anyone notice how the Spider that was employed as Master Of Whispers in GOT has almost the same name as the unofficial Master Of Whispers that serves Alicent? Larys is one letter different from Varys.
It's a shame her mother and grandfather's self centred greed for power did not allow her to marry Rhaenyras oldest child, she likely would have led to a much, much happier life for her, Jeremy children and all of the realm.
I'm willing to bet her covering her ear's during the last episode a nightmare sound of the future! ;-)
good spotting
i picked up on this immediately when watching and i love it
I believe that she is in both realms- one foot in the realm of dreams/seeing and one foot in the well realm of reality. Remember when Allicent had such a problem getting her to calm down as a babe? I can guarantee you that baby was seeing things that scared her. That is why she (Allicent) could not calm her own child. You see the distress on her face when when she cannot calm her. As a person watching in the audience, you can tell that she feels overwhelmed as a mother. Well also going through the Game of Thrones, and being pushed around and abused by her own Father (Otto). We know that she (Heleana) can see. She has been given the gift of sight. Sure, it may come out garbled, but what premonition or prophecy has never come out garbled? Or lost in translation? Remember Hodor (or should I say, "Hold the door")?
I'd like to add, remember to listen closely to what she is saying. Don't take it word-for-word. Pull from it. Look at the surrounding conditions. Add it up from there. Trust me.
"The beast under the boards" I love her!
Great stuff as always joe.
she just predicted the evil dragon that no one can control.
Beware of the beast beneath the wood
Which Dragon is this?
@@ZoZo-gm7rji think the cannibal
Her ending is one of the most tragic in whole Westeros
What happens to her xx
Bravo 👏 Great work on this video!!
I just wanna say that there’s no way DREAMfyre became her dragon by coincidence. Just saying.
She kills the spider in a foreshadowing of her own death. Think about it, her sigel is a spider, she just smooshed a spider..... (herself)
What about...the beast under the floor is actually about the mice and rats that we see all over the episodes?
the bug reference is also related in parts of conversation - like when they aren't like the spiders of Egypt or something - they referenced it in game of thrones i believe too. theres definitely significance / symbolism there
Maybe Larys is part of a faction of the children of the forest that want to kill the dragons to help the Others
I still dream of Rhaenyra inheriting the Iron Throne and that the Dance did not happen and Jacaerys being married to Helaena and living happily with each other and eventually ruling as both King and Queen regents where Westeros continues its golden age in the Age of King Jace and Queen Helen but my sweet summer child...
What if larys strong is a greenseer like bran and the hint is that he's also a cripple :D
also another very interesting theory i read somewhere is that he's turning into the rats you see around the castle at random scenes. Not entirely random, as important things appear to happen when the rat is around there...
Yup! I wrote that theory ruclips.net/video/94gxoRIqvVI/видео.html
@@JoeMagician genius! also, cynical side, believing all this is another way to let the showrunners let us down, later on :'DD
If Larys is a smash up of Littlefinger and Varys- you are saying he’s the Spider, right? The spider Helaena plays with and embroiders and is obviously fixated on actually represents Larys. So why is she so fixated on him?
The beast beneath the boards is yet to come- Rhaenys broke through a stone floor, not a wooden one, and did not harm the Greens. I think the Beast beneath the boards is blood and cheese. And I think Larys is cheese. Helaena knows that the events of that day will eventually lead to her ultimate showdown with the spider. I find it super creepy that she embroiders that spider while sitting over her children. And it’s weird that she won’t let Alicent touch her. I know she’s been hinted as being on the spectrum but somebody touched her as she is a mother. Why the constant flinching at Alicent’s touch? Alicent who enabled Larys to rise to power - and isn’t the Queen tied up watching the whole blood and cheese thing? Or am i not remembering correctly? I’m super excited to see how this all plays out.
I am not sure if you saw the new episodes of season 2, but you were right about the beasts under the boards but i have a feeling there is more to it than blood and cheese
When she referred to 'the hand' I assumed she was referring to Otto.
Isn't funny Viserys was obsessed with prophecies and their family yet no one stopped to think hey she's dreamer.... bugs me so much!
I feel like if Alicent wasn’t so obsessed with Rhaenyras kids and figuring out their dad & viserys wasn’t sick and trying to defend rhaenyra they would’ve caught on but Alicent & aegon would’ve used her so much in the war
Last place I would've expected a World of Warcraft clip
Great video !
I thought they might be doing a Little Finger and Sansa esq connection with Laryis and Helaena. But it seems Helaena is too deep into her own world. I thought at first she was just a bit aloof but she seems really disconnected with reality. Although she seemed to really like dancing with Jace. It was like the first time someone paid her any attention.
It really is a shame. If Daemon and Rhaynera just stayed closer to home they could have helped her. Daemon with all the reading he was doing in Essos may have been able to understand her.
Don't know if there is any connection, but on game of thrones, wasn't Varis (another master of whispers) nicknamed "the spider"?
Maybe she's detached as the 3 eyed raven will be later... because her power is too much and overwelming so that she can't fight her sight and is fatalist about it
That's why she might like bugs, humans in HOD are like bugs in the hand of fate...
Is the Three Eyed Raven that Bran met a former Targaryon?
About the straight cut from the spider and shell to Larys Strong. The cut isn't acrually straight from Helaena to Larrys. The cut is from Healenas hands to Allicent. The camera then quickly focus to Larrys. This entails that Larrys is not observing Haelena at all but are as unconcerned with her as the rest. His eyes are instead at Allicent and whatever Haelena is seeing probably concerns Larrys and Allicent and what their futureholds...
I assumed that Larys Strong uses a firefly because his own preferred method of assassination is by fire; torching his brother, his father and Mysaria's manse. As to why his assassins wear his identifying mark - well I rather think it's because the show wants us, the audience, to be in no doubt as to who is behind it all, and because the writers don't have the imagination of George Aargh Aargh Martin.
Queen Helaena now
Dragon Dreams usually end up in alcoholism. So I don't envy her.
remember Hodor. Bran or the 3 eyed raven is watching all of this through her I think
In the original script of GOT ending, Bran plays with a beetle that crawled onto his just before got elected as king. Also tyrions cousin who also played with bugs.
Maybe he's just a fly on the wall whose favorite weapon is fire. Firefly
Laryis is a Green Seeer that saw team Green forming 20 years ago.
Hi Joe -- do you have any comments on the possibility of Aemond being the father of Helaena's twins? Makes the "a son for a son" thing in B&C make more sense. It's an interesting thought I don't fully buy into but it was an entertaining thought!
Loved the Pokémon Bug catcher Meme 😀
Jesus christ, I'm amazed at how right you are
Nice work 👏
the dragons of thread and dragons of flesh thing is probably a prediction of the end of dragon kind.
I forget the names but in one of the tales Dunk and Egg there’s a fun throwaway line about fire flies being the cause of a major fire.
In Dorne, there’s a water dispute during a major drought and a large fire appears. Funny enough the lady who makes the comment about the fire fly being the cause of the fire has a spider for her sigel.
House Webber?
@@SantomPh yeah, been a while for me. Looked it up. Lady Rohanne Webber the Red Widow for anyone who wants to read about it.
IT MIGHT MEAN: Dragon of flesh weaving dragons of thread. Meaning the greens change the banner to the yellow dragon.
Fantastic commentary
It stands out to me that when her mother tries to touch her, to comfort her or whatever, she always flinches. I can't recall if the books talks about it. I need to re-read it.
well, now we know why Larys was smiling.
Alicent : Ser Larys, something wrong about Healena?
Larys : she spoils the show... I think I want to eat blood sausage and cheese (Blood and cheese)
The show writers have made Helaena such a fascinating character! It stinks that she had to marry Aegon and by blood she's tied to the Greens though 😢
You and IDG are the best
Another great vid, I don't think larys is a green sewer, I just think that he is just ignored like a statue. But maybe. I need ur opinion on something, to me it's almost like the writers are trying to make Alicent more likeable. Alicent was truly a major part in Usurping the throne. During the the counsel meeting it was almost like Otto was forcing the situation. Don't forget in the books Alicent had the chambermaids locked up, no bells, the King was dead for some time before anyone new!! And See Criston opened Beesbrys throat
Helaena’s comments on the centipede/millipede sections had a few interesting points:
She said each section had two legs and then remarked that the last section had no legs. Sounds like Bran? Or a Targaryen Prince who took the Black who represents the end of the Targaryen line? How many Targaryen kings are there? 240 sounds too high a number. Could she be numbering how many dragon riders there will be? Is she naming Bran or Jon as the final “legless” Targaryen? If she is counting dragon riders, does that mean one of them will ride a dragon? Jon rode one in the show, but could he become a rider in the book?
Anyone else curious about Helaena’s insect math?
She has "visions" She already predicted Aemon would lose an eye to take a Dragon in season 1.