This is my second comment on this video, but I think it is worth saying. I, like many of you, had a really hard time getting the sprockets off on the balance shafts. In fact, I ended up dropping drill bits and punches into my oil pan (100% my fault- I should have stuffed a rag into the void leading to the oil pan). Anyhow, what I ended up doing (and it worked really well) is I took the old balance shaft chain, and cut it in half with a cutting wheel. From there, I draped the chain over the top of 1 of the sprockets, bunched one end of it and let it bind on the housing. This held the sprocket solid and allowed me to remove and reinstall the new one.
FYI: I broke a tooth on BOTH new balance shaft sprockets using the 'drill bit method!' To anyone who had the same problem, I'd suggest wrapping the OLD balance sprocket chain around the sprocket and grabbing with a vise-grip to hold in place while removing/installing the sprocket. By using the old chain, you take the pressure off the single tooth and greatly reduce the likelihood of damaging the sprocket!
Very good advice. The punch/bit method will work, but you do risk breaking a tooth. If we film an updated video for this application, the method you described is the method we will recommend.
Glad i followed this advice. I cut the old chain in half and wrapped it around the balance shaft sprocket and let it bind up against the block. Worked perfect to break the balance shaft bolts loose, then i wrapped the chain around the other way, let it bind up against the block on the intake side and against a bolt boss on the exhaust side and i could torque the sprocket bolts to spec
@@romanfedotov9434 Glad my advice panned out for you. It was REALLY upsetting when I broke not one, but BOTH of my new sprockets (and had to buy two more!) When the first one snapped, I thought it was my fault or the gear was of poor quality. The second one proved of the stupid idea of using a drill bit!
You guys are legends, 5 years and you're still responding to comments! I just performed this job on an LE5 using the Cloyes kits and followed this guide. Thank you for the clear instructions and filming of each step.
One thing I didn’t hear mentioned is if you’re doing this because the chain guide broke, make sure to drop the oil pan and clean out the oil pickup tube. I am in the process of doing one now and the oil pickup tube was completely jam packed with debris. Had I not done this I’m certain the motor would not have lasted more than 5 miles.
Absolutely. With the engine removed from my ‘08 Cobalt, I took off the oil pan and the OIL PICKUP TUBE was packed with debris. There were metal pieces from the chain guide, and broken plastic guide pieces.
Exactly I,m doing this Job on a 2011 Buick Regal 2.4 mine was also jam packed I took this oil pan off at first to clean out the Metal particles and knew there was debris ,you have to also take the metal Stupid cover off and knock the Oil pickup tube out of its hole first before you even find out what’s in it,stupid design but so are all GM products A side note the upper chain guide was completely cut in Half,so if you hear any strange noise,take that Valve cover off to inspect
That must've been the it seized on me..broken guide .. replaced chain n everything but didn't check the oil pan now I'm swapping the engine.... (Year later)
very impressed with the cost of the VVT kit and this tutorial. all aftermarket manufacturers need to take notice of Cloyes and follow their example. much appreciated!
Made everything simple as shit. I’ve down loads of timing belts but never a chain, and was pretty nervous going into it. This was an absolute gem of a video. 10/10. Glad the engine was out in the vid. Made everything super clear. Thanks
I love the cloyes timing videos. Used this one today on a customers car. They were quoted 16 hours for the job by the dealer, we did it in 6. I also used your video for the gm 3.6 in the GMC Acadia. Great videos 👍
This is such a better video than your previous one THANK YOU!! the last video said nothing about taking up the slack of the chain before triggering the tensioner which i believe is why i had slackness in my chain
Like to thank you guys for the great information! I just finished my first Eco timing chain and balance chain replacement on a 2013 Equinox. With your help I was able to get the job done right the first time. I've done some timing chain's before on older cars and got the much needed help from you on these newer engine's. These are a little bit more complex engine's. Thanks again!
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does any of you know a tool to get back into an Instagram account..? I was stupid forgot my account password. I would love any assistance you can offer me.
@Brodie Moshe I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and im trying it out atm. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Thank You for producing this awesome video. Watched it twice and I am about done with the project. 2012 Terrain with 90k. I bought the complete Cloye kit for the balance shafts and camshafts along with new VVT sprockets. Everything fits like it should so far.
Thank you for posting the video, it is very helpful. I would recommend taking the time to set the engine to TDC and not just a downward stroke so that you can use the markings in the video should you accidentally let the cam or a balance shaft rotate. I am in the middle of the job on a 2.0 lnf turbo engine, and the balance shaft sprockets on mine do not break loose like they do in the video. Using a punch and a 3/8 drive ratchet my 5/32 punch broke from the pressure. A friend that runs a shop recommended using a small impact hoping the percussion would knock the bolt loose under less pressure, I used a titanium 5/32 dewalt drill bit this time, and with a small impact nothing broke loose, it only slowly warped the drill bit. I grabbed my larger impact to retry and broke the drill bit in half, bolt and sprockets are still on the balance shafts. Any advice would be appreciated
You can remove the shafts from the engine and clamp them in a vice, on the non-bearing surfaces, with a cloth to protect the shafts. That is really the only other option if you can't get the punch/drill bit method to work.
I've got an 07 HHR with 2.2. It currently has 308000 miles on it. Replaced alternator is the only thing I had to do on the engine. It still has the original clutch.
Just watched the video and think it will help on this first time on this style engine. I did notice that no one has mentioned that if the original guides are broken or have misplaced parts you had better remove the oil pan and clean them out of the oil pickup tube screen. You will have a greater failure later.
Ok i have everything broken down and i am trying to remove the balance shaft gears but they will not come off. I tried sticking a punch in the hole to keep the gear from moving but the bolt will not break aloose. Any suggestions ?
If you can reach it with an impact gun, CAREFULLY try a couple of SHORT bursts with the impact gun. If you dont have an impact gun, or cannot reach with the impact gun, use a breaker bar and sharply hit the end of it with a hammer. You need sudden sharp force to get the bolt to start moving. Stay gold.
I am looking at the kits online and notice in the picture of the CLOYES 94201SX there are 5 colored links 3 black and 2 yellow and the yellow links are on each side of one of the black links, so how would this chain align
Do you know another indication of the TDC in exhaust stoke? Haynes manual states marking on pulley and line mark in engine cover is TDC on compression. My arrows on the camshafts are 10 on intake 12 on intake. That’s the closest I can it to align to the arrows. I also did put a screw driver in cylinder number 1 to to TDC.
Sounds like you are close enough. The engine does not need to be at perfect TDC to set the timing. The chain sets the timing, as long as your links are all aligned properly to the sprockets, then it is in time.
I got kit 9-4201sbwp kit got balance shaft chain all buttoned up got timing chain routed and its like the chain is to short i cant get it around the crank sproket, even tried starting at crank then intake still no luck
A few tips for anyone else doing this (my car is 08 Saturn Sky): You probably need a 3-jaw gear puller to remove the pulley. NOT the Y-shaped/peace sign style. No need to rent the gear puller set at the parts store, just buy a 3-jaw puller. I had to grind the 3 jaw teeth to fit precisely on the pulley. Once pulling, it was easy to get off. I used the old bolt as the pivot point. If you're doing a water pump replacement at the same time - the WP gear does fit in/out of the hole for the WP. To take off the WP pulley bolts, I made a bar with 2 holes to allow me to keep the WP from turning while loosening and installing those bolts. I used an alum bar with holes 1-5/8 apart on center, to put one bolt with a 3/4inch plastic spacer in the WP pulley threaded hole, and using the big WP bolt on the boss near it. Removing the cam gear on the crank required the 3-jaw puller, it's not easy to slip off/on by hand, there's a good amount of friction at the installed position. Removing the bolts from the balance shafts is a joke. I did not replace them as I bent my punch when I tried to loosen the bolt. Remember these parts have been going through thousands of heat cycles and everything can be stuck together. The video uses clean, demo-only engines. Not real life engines. Also, IMO, it's not required to replace every piece. The markings on the OE balance sprockets are marked but hard to see without good light. The main cam gear on the crank had plastic cushioner on it. There was a thin shim on the front of it that covered the part number and the timing mark dot, but it was so precisely fit it was hard to see until I took off the whole gear and touched the shim. In hindsight I might have been able to keep that gear honestly. The main chain for the cams likes to fall off the crank gear. Have a helper to keep it in place while you work. The balance shaft gear on the crank has a springy action to it so you can't try to turn the balance chain drivetrian after that's all in place. The vertical metal tensioner only seemed to fit into place from the top, not the bottom. Buy a plug/bolt replacement for the top vertical chain guide on the driver side so you don't have to fret about losing that top bolt taking it out of the big hole. Apparently it's prone to break. Most of the bolts are 89 inch-pounds but the GM book specifies 106 for some of the bolts actually. I ground a tiny slot mark on the outside of the main pulley to mark TOP and painted an arrow. Hopefully there's no "next time". Putting the main pulley back on doesn't require a special tool, just used the old bolt. I was able to push and wiggle the pulley on for an inch or so, then used the old bolt to press it down. Easy. I bought a flywheel holding tool on eBay for $15, easy to use in the starter hole. Tightening the crank bolt to 100Nm + 125 degrees required 2 passes on the degree bar, about 60 degrees each time, as there's not enough room IMO to go all at once. It's the most bolt tightening I've even done. You NEED a 24 inch or longer bar, I used a breaker bar, ie no ratcheting. The degree measure tool from the parts store is like $12.
Thanks for the video. I got balance and timing sets installed over weekend(2.2). starts up and has chain clatter. Drove about 1 mile, clatters under load but not coasting. Unceartain if chain tensioner functioning. Do I just remove it to see if its activated and try installing/ activating again ? And will it seat correctly without removing the front cover again? This is my first experience with this type of engine. Thanks
On the 2009 2.2 VVT the exhaust cam wanted to rotate counter clockwise when the chain came off. The 24mm wrench kept it from moving as it rested agsinst the cowl. In the video it shows having to rotate the intake cam in order to get the sprocket on the exhaust cam. However in my case I had to rotate the exhaust cam clockwise to get it on, since I only had one 24mm wrench and it was locked on the exhaust cam. Another tip, when putting the crank pulley back on, you can torque it to the initial 74 ft lbs with a large screwdriver between the pulley and the housing. However to get the additional 75 degrees of rotation I chalked the bolt and pulley and then made a mark to where the bolt needed to rotate to for the extra 75 degrees. Then I used my 1400 ft lb impact gun to get it there. The cams I was able to do myself by hand.
I just replaced timing chain 3 guides and sprocket may car started and runs but it almost sounds like chain rubbing in the valve cover could this be related to the tensioner possibly it being out 2.4 2011 Malibu
Follow up - had been in and out of my timing case 3 times since. Double checked everything. Made sure balance shaft sprockets were at 37ft lbs - the problem ended up being a DEFECTIVE balance chain tensioner. It had sprung, but after a decent amount of pressure, 15lbs orso, it retracted back into its turtle shell. My car has been down about 3 weeks because of this. Do you have a better quality control option? I wouldn't think a brand new tensioner in one of your kits would be defective, but low and behold. Double check all your tensioner and push as hard as you can after you spring it to make sure it does its job.
Do you know which specific 2.4L engine codes this video applies to? Is it safe to say that all 2011 and later 2.4L Ecotec engines will follow this process for the camshaft notch positioning, where the number 1 piston is at TDC on the exhaust stroke when the mark on the crankshaft key is at the 12 o'clock position, the mark on the intake camshaft sprocket is at the 10 o'clock position, and the mark on the exhaust camshaft sprocket is at the 7 o'clock position? I want to make sure that there aren’t any 2011 and later engine codes that would require the mark on the intake camshaft sprocket to be at the 5 o’clock position as is needed with 2010 models. Thank you for your help.
All 2.0L, 2.2L, and 2.4L Ecotec engines follow this basic procedure. In all cases, the unique link aligns to the intake mark on the intake camshaft, and the other 2 chain marks align to the crank mark and the exhaust mark. The chain sets the timing, so as long as the 3 marks are aligned you are good.
The chain sets the timing. As long as all the marks align when you get the chain fully installed then the engine will be in time. If you need to rotate the shafts slightly to get everything aligned that is OK, as long as the marks align when you are done.
I understand everything till 11:34 ..procedure comes up ..I understand that you move the exhaust or intake cam...counterclockwise wise to "help" the Cam Phaser ..get align with the chain's color link but its not mandatory to move it .??.along it aligned up with the marks? Correct?
@@t0ny2trill If your chain and sprockets marks are aligned, then it will be 100% correct. Sometimes all the shafts are sitting perfect and you don't need to move anything, but sometimes you might need to move a shaft slightly to get it to come together. But ultimately the chain sets the timing. If your marks are aligned, then you are in time.
@Cloyes01 thank you cloyes after getting my hands dirty , I see why you need to my move the phasers ...to help you put the chain on and to properly set the phaser on the cam ..it will make a clicking noise .
Why at the end is it not advised to turn the engine over by the crankshaft when installed and timed. I thought your suppose to check if timing is correct and that there is no interference?
If the marks are aligned then you are in time. Rotating the engine by hand only increases the chances of the chain jumping a tooth on a sprocket. The Ecotec engines are bad about the chain jumping a tooth on the crank sprocket before the tensioner can prime up with oil pressure. Slow rotation by hand allows valve spring pressures to move the cams dramatically causing chain slack to shift.
I am going to replace just the camshaft sprockets and was wondering if the intake and the exhaust camshaft sprockets are same on the 2.4 ecotec engine? Thanks
The non-VVT engines use the same camshaft sprockets on both cams. VVT equipped engines could have the same phaser on both cams, or some applications used unique intake and exhaust phasers. You can lookup your application on our website to see what phaser combination it requires.
Where would I find a replacement bolt that would go in the left balance chain guide? Had one that snapped on me and am having trouble finding the bolt online. Any help would be appreciated.
Hi I am having the same problem but it is with the right guide bolt. I am thinking of the junkyard, pep boys and this store called smith fastener company. I am just waiting for a ride so I can go there today.
@@rdylima9 I actually found the item number and ordered one from GM Warehouse Parts, then I called my local chevy dealer and they happened to have exactly one in stock. paid like 3.10 plus 40 cent tax or something like that from the dealer. Got me a torque wrench so i didn't make the same mistake again. 2004 Cavalier 2 door with the 2.2 with 200,000 miles. Engine runs so smooth now compared to before. Got a spare bolt now also.
I ordered at kit from you all for a 2010 equinox and when I get the camshaft sprockets one with the unique color on the intake side and black on the exhaust and black on crank shaft and line the crank sprocket up with the timing mark my exhaust cam is setting between 11 and 12 o'clock and intake is setting close to 2 o'clock does that sound right
It’s difficult to tell from the video, but if the balance shaft chain were to slip off of the water pump, is it possible to remove the cover and realign that chain, check timing without messing at all with the primary chain?
It is possible if you do not need to remove the chain, but if the chain came off the water pump then you likely have a tensioner issue in the balance shaft system.
@@axxisblack I haven’t gotten all my parts in yet so not finished but I feel like that must Mean you didn’t line up the tensioner right or didn’t activate it properly
Great video, but don't you need something holding the cams in place so that when you remove the sprockets and chain they don't move and screw up the timing? I've seen these blue or gold cam holders for this project for the Saab 9-3 but in the video I don't remember it mentioned. Thx.
They are not necessary, but can make the job easier. We do not use them during the video. The timing is set by the marked chain links aligning to the sprocket marks. If the cams move during disassembly, you will move the cams back when installing the new chain.
@@Cloyes01 Cloyes, the cam locks are necessary on a Saab if you are going to remove cam sprockets, and probably even if you don't. The sprockets are not keyed to the cam like a regular ecotech. They are just held by bolt tension. The cam sprockets also do not have timing marks on them. Blue locks are needed for the B207L (9-3 Linear little "t" engine, Gold is needed for the B207R big "T" engine. Trust me, I am putting one back together right now.
I bought this timing kit and it is great, however what they don't tell you is that crankshaft harmonic balancer bolt has to be replaced with a new one , it is not included with this kit which I thought was a bummer, these bolts can be hard to find.....
@@psfanboy79 no, I did not have to pull the engine, it is tough to work upside down but it wasn't too bad to do. just put something to cover the oil pan when working on this, if you drop a bolt it could go right into the pan..... just did not think it is right to not include the crank bolt withis kit... but it is what it is....
I have everything installed correctly and in the proper order but for some reason the chain is too tight for me to even get around the bottom sprocket. Is there a trick needed for the 2.4 ecotec with vvt? I ordered the 94201sa
Question 1) What's the deal with the black plastic guide that always breaks. Is there a reason this peice is solid plastic instead of metal like the other side? Question 2) I'm only getting a year out of these kits before it's time to change them again is this normal? I've changed my 2012 regal 2.0 lhu 3 times and 2013 equinox 2.4 twice, 8 months apart. The chains are either stretched or black plastic guide is busted.
Did my 2012 malibu in my driveway and im like why the fuck is this plastic. That one was worn, the metal one snapped and fell down. I left it in the pan lol. Ran good until a girl rear ended me and totaled it a year later.
Great video. However, using a punch or drill bit to hold the balance gears in place might work good on an engine stand but was nearly impossible in the tight space of my engine compartment in my 09 Pontiac G6. I did manage to remove both balance gear sprockets with a lot of grit and determination but could not get in a position to torque the bolts when installing and managed to break a tooth on the intake sprocket. Looking through the comments, I see that I wasn't the only one. When I get my replacement sprocket in a couple of days, I plan on re-installing the old chain, crank sprocket, chain guides and tensioner. Then stick a small wood wedge (or a penny) between the chain and the crank sprocket to keep it from turning while torquing the balance shaft bolts to 37 ft-lbs. Unless I hear of a better way, that's what I'm going to do. Now I wish that I left those sprockets in place. They were still in good shape.
That will work well. If we remade this video today we would recommend using the old chain to wrap the sprockets. Then you can allow the old chain to "bunch up" against the block or vice grip the old chain to get the bolts loosened or tightened.
11:14 do you know what size bolt the tensioner arm takes for the cams I seem to have misplaced mine and its the last thing I need to get my engine back together
Hello!! Let me start by saying, your videos are “SPOT ON”! Your step by step directions are easy to follow, & very thorough! I am nearly finished with a entire balance shaft, timing chain, & water pump job on a 2012 Malibu 2.4L. With the exception of the water pump, every other part installed, was “Cloyes” brand parts. Top quality parts also, I’d like to add!! I do have a question? As for the timing chain tensioner, is there a way I can verify that the tensioner is engaged, against the guide? I did what the video shows, as for activating it. But, it still seems to me that there is some slack in the timing chain. Is there a way I can verify, (for sure) that the tensioner is in its “activated” state? Any suggestions, would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you! Steve L.
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. I am doing my timing chain on my 2.2 ecotec and watched your video. This is a great video however I’m doing my timing chain because my old one snapped and bent the valves on cylinder 4. I installed new valves and am ready to do the timing but because my chain broke, what is the best way to get my cams on the exhaust stroke? I already have the bottom half at TDC, I just wanna know how to get my cams In time without piston to valve contact.
Move the crank so all the pistons are down slightly in the cylinders. You can then install the cam sprockets and move the marks to the approximate correct locations. Then you can take the sprocket back off and move the crank back to the starting point.
Installed a Cloyes timing chain kit in a 2011 NOX in 2017 without benefit of this video, piecing together information from several sources. Anyone doing it now will have a much easier time, due to this video. The crank bolt deserves mention, however: Does Cloyes sell a new TTY crankshaft balancer retaining bolt? I do not see one mentioned in the kit, and you'll need one. (GM is extremely proud of theirs.) If memory serves, it tightens to 100 NM plus 125 degrees.
What happen if I accidentally move the Balance shaft sprockets on disassemble and where do I find out how to fix my timing if it jumped. Thanks for all your help
You can just spin the balance shafts back to where they need to go so the sprocket marks and chain links align. The balance shafts do not connect to anything, so you can spin them freely. Same thing on the camshafts, however make sure the pistons are out of the way before rotating.
I've been having a hell of a time. 2006 chevy cobalt supercharged ecotec 2.0 lsj. Bought your balance shaft and timing chain kit, because it was about that time and my thermostat had just gone out. Anyway, I'm probably going to call your hotline tomorrow. Did everything listed, everything torqued to spec.Initially, I didnt spring the timing chain tensioner, after pulling it out, it had been released. My idle was fine on turn over, no engine codes (still no engine codes). Seemed a little heavier I n vibration on the jackstands, but I've got billet mounts, so I assumed the vibration was reverberation due to it still being on stands, it having solid engine mounts, and torque damper. Any revving while the tires are on the car, and I try vibrations like my car is going to fall apart. More vibration the higher the rpm goes. Also, at TDC in cylinder on the compression stroke, my 2 o'clock on the intake says exh, where my exh (firewall side), says int at the 10-11 o'clock position. Cam sprokets only go on one way..not that it should matter, but have you heard of camshaft sprokets being reversed from the dealership? I dont think I could possibly have the timing reversed 180 degrees, because it wouldn't start nicely, or at all, or would backfire from what I'm reading? Could you shine some Insight, or is there any chance that an under or over torqued anything in the timing cover could cause the vibration? Sorry for the novel, I'm all out of ideas. My father just got diagnosed with 4 weeks to live and this is my only vehicle. Please please any help you could give would be great.
Timing is set on this engine with #1 TDC on the exhaust stroke. That explains why your cam sprockets are 180 out on the compression stroke, it is perfectly normal. With the car running, and no codes, you have the engine in time. The vibrations could be caused by a balance shaft/shafts being out of time, but with the colored links aligned correctly with the marks on the sprockets there is nothing you can do wrong there. If you are confident that the marks were aligned then the solid engine mounts are more than likely the cause of the vibrations you are experiencing.
@@Cloyes01 because these arent new mounts, I've had them off the car several times, and back on, mounts torqued to spec. Or is it possible when changing balance shaft sprockets, if the pinch hold (where you catch the tooth to remove the sprocket with a punch or drill bit) slips when putting on a the new sprockets as long as you turn the balance shafts to their correct positions without completing the turn, assuming it slipped right on tighten, I'd move it counter clockwise back, against the direction it turned? OR, if I worked counter clock wise installing the balance shaft chain vs clockwise from your video and others I've seen could that be the culprit? Do I need to turn my motor over 180 degrees and then do the balance shaft chain,should I turn the crank clockwise for a full revolution, or 33 revolutions, to get the timing chain to match up on the marks on the initial install, and then line up the balance shaft chain links to the sprockets?
The balance shaft chain would not be affected by the primary chain tensioner. As long as you pulled the pin on the balance shaft tensioner then you will have no issues.
Turning the balance shafts independently will not matter at all, as long as the marks are properly aligned when the chain is installed. The sprockets have a "D" shaped back so they will only install on the shaft one way. If you want to reset the balance shaft timing you can rotate the engine back to the starting position (cam marks at 10 and 2 with the crank key at 12) then remove the balance shaft chain tensioner and guides. From there you can realign all the marks on the balance shaft system and reinstall the components. You will not need to disassemble any primary components, and keep in mind the colored chain links on the primary chain will not be aligned anymore.
Thank you for simplifying the process for those of us who are not mechanically inclined but also can't afford to pay a minimum of 600.00 to put it in the shop either. I have a 2009 Chevy HHR 2.2L ecotech motor. I have installed the new kit and the water pump and housing, however when I attempt to start the car, it makes a horrible sound coming from the starter and won't start. Please help, I can't wait another 2 months to get my car up and running again.
Im doing mine currently and need advice on the shims that are on my cranshaft gear. One behind and one on front. Keep them when replacing or not? The oem gear has rubber also so maybe shimsnare for that since the new gear has no rubber
I have confirmed, the front cover gasket that I reused was compressed enough that oil got by it at the oil pump, I replaced the gasket with a new one, as I recommend for this job. No more ticking or rattle. Perhaps the chain was replaced before I bought the HHR and the cover gasket was reused and the bolts over torqued .
Very similar, the only difference will be the cam sprockets. You will have phasers instead of plain cam sprockets, but they will be marked as well and everything lines up the same.
@@kirkfranks1 Phasers can be reused, just inspect the sprocket teeth and make sure they are not heavily worn. It is recommended to replace them while you are in there though.
I've gone through the install, chain rattle is gone, but now I have a quite bit of engine vibration throughout the vehicle. No codes are coming up. I've replaced the balancer pully and bolt but vibration still there. Engine mounts look good. Car is drivable, just a lot of engine vibration. Now that I just read the last two comments... is it likely my balance shaft 180 degrees out? Anyway to check this without taking everything apart again?
Hi After timing chain replacement I was getting P0014: replaced the vvt selenoids Wit oem but Didnt fix it. Then I replaced the vvt phasers with after market ones. Now getting p0011. Do you think it is the aftermarket vvt phaser still giving me that code? I am positive I did the timing right. Thanks
So I took a 2012 Buick Regal 2.0 to a shop for water pump.. they ended up setting off timing and refused to accept responsibility… I eventually drove it and repeatedly changed ignition coil #2 over and over until it finally went out for good. So now I wanna figure out if I fix timing and do coils and plugs again if all will be good again? Or if it messed up catalytic converter?
@@Cloyes01 Then someone needs to build a tool other than a 5/32" punch to hold these balance-shaft sprockets. I've broken 3 trying to torque them to 37 ft. lbs!!
Hi cloyes, I have an Opel Zafira 2.2l ecotec engine and am hearing some rattling noise from the left side of the engine is it possible that the noise is coming from the timing chain. Please I need help!
Worn or failing timing systems will make a rattling noise. If the noise is coming from the timing cover area it is likely that is what you are hearing.
@@salmanphariss2086 The only way to know the health of the timing system would be to remove the timing cover for an inspection. With the cover off you can check for broken guides, a stretched chain, or an over-extended tensioner. If any of these are the case I would recommend our 9-4201S timing kit to replace the components.
The Geekazoid people advise you dont need them and can use molegrips to lock the cams in place but i bought the gold tools. The cam sprockets are free floating on the b207r so they dont have locating lugs like on this video
Is it safe to remove camshafts with Chains removed without the holding tool for valve lash , rocker and valve spring/stem replacement? I have photographed the cam positions and as far as I can see as long as I put the cams back in proper positions and replace the camshaft caps properly there should be no problem. the Haynes manual does not have cam removal procedure for a engine that already has the timing and balance shaft chains removed. Thank you!
Yes, it is safe to do so. To your point, just make sure to install the cams back on the correct banks and the caps are reinstalled as removed. Try to find a resting position before you pull them out, meaning the camshafts don't have valve spring pressure against them.
@@Cloyes01 Keep the timing tech videos coming! I feel that timing is one of the most complex jobs to do but with the proper Knowledge, you realize that it's the complexity that deters people from doing their own timing chains out of fear of doing it wrong. It seems to me that Most if not all manufacturers
Just did this proceedure on my 2013 Buick Verano. Bought an AC Delco kit OEM. Before wjen you drove the car there was like a ticking rattling noise because the chain stretched and was causing P0014 code. Afterwards no check engine light and engine is running smooth again. THANK GOD, at first I thought it was a rod knock
@@adamsgarage5119 thanks! I just replaced vvt solonoids and unfortunately upon closer inspection of the old ones there were bits of metal shavings on the filter screens so I didn’t even bother turning it over. The chain n guides are definitely toast.
Hi - need new chain on my 2007 solstice with 2.0l turbo - with your replacement - was easy to remove power steering belt and main drive belt for ac and drive belt tensioner? Did have to drain oil? And u mention lifting engine up slightly - why needed? My solstice is rear drive so engine front cover behind fan so maybe i need to remove fan/radiator to get at front cover? How many hours approximately take u to do job? Thanks for any update here.
Hey there I’ve got the SS with the VVT. When I’m putting the timing chain over the camshaft sprockets and the crankshaft sprocket, everything goes fine until I use the 24 mm wrench and push back to lock in the exhaust sprocket. It always slips and jumps a tooth on the crankshaft sprocket. I’ve tried three different times and got the same result. Don’t know what’s going on.
Before installing the exhaust sprocket, try to rotate the crankshaft sprocket slightly to shift the chain slack to the other side and see if that helps.
I am in the middle of changing the balance chain on my 2009 2.4L ecotec. I bought kit 9-4202S, but both balance shaft gears are labeled intake. If I try to use the intake gear on the exhaust balance shaft the timing mark will be 180 degrees from what it should be when compared to the original engine exhaust gear.
You are correct, the timing mark will be 180 degrees out if you use the intake sprocket on the exhaust balance shaft. There is supposed to be 2 different sprockets included, one marked intake and one marked exhaust. I apologize for the packaging error. You can work with your vendor to receive a replacement, reuse the old sprocket is it appears undamaged, or remark one of the intake sprockets with a paint marker using the old exhaust sprocket to orientate the mark correctly.
@@kodycourville7114 Once the sprockets are installed and torqued, the shafts should have a little bit of endplay but not 0.5". Outward thrust is controlled by the carrier that is bolted down next to the sprockets, and inward thrust is controlled by the back of the sprocket against that carrier.
I've been dealing this problem with my Saturn ion 06 and u make it to simple. I don't have the engine out. I don't have a hoist. I'm going on two weeks without working. I need my car. These videos are helpful but show the what ifs too...
What happens if I am unsure if the intake and exhaust sprockets moved on removal and install? Wasn't sure if I kept them perfectly still while taking them off.
@@Cloyes01 I just got everything finished up on a 2012 2.4 Equinox. Started it up and it ran well for about 5 seconds, then the engine started shaking and idling hard. Did the balance chain possibly jump on me?
@@corneliuandsons It is unlikely that you would notice severe symptoms due to a balance shaft timing issue. It is more likely that the primary system is out of time, or you have some kind of VVT system issue if the idle quality is poor.
@@Cloyes01 I made sure all my timing marks were proper when putting the new chain on, triple checked and even marked the camshafts. The only thing I can think of is that the tensioner wasn't properly activated (but there's absolutely no slack) or one of the cam phasers is "stuck open." Edit: I'm now realizing that I missed the specified torque specs for VVT phasers. I see it's supposed to be 22 ft lbs + 100 degrees for these phasers.
We use a set of snap ring plyers and a pocket screw driver. Get the snap ring compressed as much as possible, then wedge the screwdriver in and work the clip out.
GM did use frictional washers on both sides of the crankshaft sprocket in some applications. If your engine had them, clean them off and reuse them with the new sprocket.
2011 terrain pulled the primary tensioner out noticed it might not have been activated as it pushed back suddently on removal, replaced it with a new one but happened to be faulty as i could not get it to activate,so i checked and put the old one back in since it seemed ok, activated it replaced the valve cover and my gas consumption and power are amazing now, any idea what happened here? I still have a rattle but seems to be less prominent on startups as before and less frequent, thinking of replacing the oil pressured tensioner today, what do you think? The chain links are solid no stretching has happened on the cam shaft chain as ican detect, Nelson Vienneau. Thanks for the great video you guys are amazing!
When you pull the pin on the tensioner the piston tip should go inside of the tensioner shoe feature. If it doesn't go in that groove on its own, then very little rotation should be required to get it to.
Thanks Cloyes, I see that now and it is all together, didn't take note of that during disassembly, you guys are great!!!!! Oh just a suggestion, on your next video, maybe spend a little more time on both tensioners. I received mine (cam kit) but the tensioner was "activated" I had to disassemble and reset, that was not hard but confusing. Watching video again I seen the plunger is suppose to be sloppy, before activating. Anyway, Thanks again.
Any reason why my balance shaft gears are at 1:00 and 4:00 for intake and exhaust, with crank at 6:00, after replacing this chain after a water pump/timing chain swap, I have a low frequency vibration and can't figure out where it's coming from.
What is improved about the Cloyes balance shaft sprockets vs the GM sprockets? Do the GM sprockets have a rubber core vs the Cloyes one piece design? I apologize if this was asked and answered already. I browsed through a years worth of comments and didn't see it mentioned.
Our sprockets are simplified, therefore eliminating potential failure points. We eliminated the cushion rings on the balance shaft sprockets and the rubberized coating on the crank sprocket. These features were originally designed to quiet chain-to-sprocket engagement but can cause system issues if they fail. You will not notice any noise differences with our sprockets and there is no potential for the cushion rings to break or the rubberized coating to deteriorate.
@@Cloyes01 Thanks for the reply. This reminds me of the old days when GM put nylon teeth on the cam sprockets in their V6's and V8's supposedly to quiet things down. It didn't work out that well. Mine stripped out on my '66 Buick. Luckily, it wasn't an interference engine. Replacing it with an iron sprocket did not make the engine any noisier.
do the timing marks on the NA crank balance sprocket and the force sprocket match up? It doesn't seem like it on the kit I bought. maybe the +/- 5 degrees on the forced is the reason why?
After rebuilding the head on this. Replacing the guides, tensioners and, chain. The car is giving me a code for p0016 which is crankshaft position, intake camshaft correlation code. The engine runs really good after the rebuild. Starts up immediately, no power loss, no misfire at all even under load. (using diagnostic) what could this code be?
That could be referencing that the camshaft timing is off a tooth, the VVT system on that bank isn't working properly (phaser/solenoid), or the cam or the crank sensors are not reading correctly. Stretched chain is also possible if the system is worn, but not if you just replaced it.
It’s a slight ticking noise, it’s an Ecotec 2.4 with VVT in a 2011 HHR , new water pump, 9-4201SA timing chain kit and 9-4202S balance shaft chain kit.
A ticking noise would definitely not come from those sprockets. Were you getting the noise before the repair? If the ticking noise is timing related it has to be tensioners, oil pressure to tensioners, or the VVT system.
I just replaced both chains and made absolutely sure the timing chain tensioner deployed, I do hear a bit of noise like possibly the new balance shaft sprockets, the new style , you show in this video, is it possible I just hear a little chain noise?
Once you install the components we do not recommend rotating the engine for any reason other than starting it. Slowly rotating it by hand can cause the chain to jump because the tensioner is not primed with oil keeping the chain tight and the valve springs make the camshafts load back and forth. Faster rotation, like with the starter, keeps the camshafts loaded and decreases the chances of the chain jumping. After the tensioner is full of oil and is applying pressure to the tensioner shoe rotation is no longer an issue.
I was saying the same thing . If you take this engine out to do the timing on an engine stand then you risk the fact of having to turn the engine when putting the torque converter bolts on . I guess the only answer here is do the timing replacement while the engine is still in the car.
This video is a big help. I wish you had a video on replacing valve guide seals on the 2.2 ecotec. Wife's car smokes especially after idling a while at a traffic light or first start up.
Thanks. We only specialize in the timing components so you will just see timing content from us, but I understand. Change the PCV valve first if you haven't already, just to make sure that isn't the problem.
@@Cloyes01 Thanks for the reply but there is no "conventional" pcv valve. There may be something built into the underside of the valve cover but haven't been able to find anything for sure and that would be an expensive guess. Thanks again, if I can solve this problem I'll probably be looking y'all up for the timing chain kitdls. Her car has been a great car(2003 Saturn Quad coupe) untill this smoking and has 171k miles and still looks brand new. Thanks again!
Why would you not rotate the crank 720° before throwing everything back together? Wouldn't you want to do this to make sure you're timed properly and don't have any interference? Just curious. Great video.
Rotating the engine by hand, particularly in this application, comes with a risk of jumping time. Since the tensioner has no oil pressure behind it, the chain will have some slack. That slack shifts as the camshafts open and close valves and will allow the chain to jump teeth on the crankshaft sprocket. If the marks are all aligned properly there is no chance of interference. We recommend the first rotations of the engine be with the starter.
@@rkw3000 Yes, but it is about the speed at which it turns. Slow rotation by hand allows the chain slack to shift back and forth because of the valves opening and closing. With the shifting of the slack, plus the tensioner not being primed up with oil, it is really easy for the chain to jump on the crankshaft sprocket. When you turn it over with the starter, there is a much lower chance of the chain jumping.
Hi Cloyes, thank you so much for this video. I will be ordering Cloyes timing chain kits for main and balance on my 2.4 Ecotec. Very clear cut instructions however I only want to verify one thing, I have the VVT version and the only step I'm thinking about is the one where the cam phaser holding tool was mentioned in the video. Can I substitute using the tool with just a plain wrench like shown in the video to hold the cams steady to install/uninstall the bolts? Or is there more that I am missing here? I don't want to damage the cam phasers. Any advice is much appreciated.
The camshaft holding tools are not required for the VVT equipped engines either. The same process of using the hex features on the camshaft can be used. The cam holding tools may make the job easier, but are not required, and you are not risking phaser damage by not using them.
I ordered the 9-4201SX set for a 2011 Chevy Equinox and the links of my chain do not look like the chain used in the video. My whole chain appears a lighter shade of gray with one light golden link and two darker black links. Is this the correct chain or did I wind up with a knockoff?
How do I verify the #1 piston is at TDC on correct stroke? I replaced the head after chain broke and bent valves. I can get everything to line up but am unsure if #1 is on proper stroke.
This is helpful I just need to find quality parts to install now I swear the last time I watched this it said nothing about the chain tensioner but now seeing it is awesome
Hello. Great video. I recently ordered the 9-4201S kit to install into my 2.2L L61 engine. I will also be changing the cap and bearings, the motor is on an engine stand. After Top-Dead-Center, do you suggest I start from the cap and bearings, then work my way to the 9-4201S timing chain installation? Thanks.
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This is my second comment on this video, but I think it is worth saying. I, like many of you, had a really hard time getting the sprockets off on the balance shafts. In fact, I ended up dropping drill bits and punches into my oil pan (100% my fault- I should have stuffed a rag into the void leading to the oil pan). Anyhow, what I ended up doing (and it worked really well) is I took the old balance shaft chain, and cut it in half with a cutting wheel. From there, I draped the chain over the top of 1 of the sprockets, bunched one end of it and let it bind on the housing. This held the sprocket solid and allowed me to remove and reinstall the new one.
Were you able to get your stuff put of the oil pan
@@Burgerkinglover32 yeah- I think I had to drop the oil pan to get everything out
@billyjacque6940 was it difficult did you do it on a lift or on the ground
FYI: I broke a tooth on BOTH new balance shaft sprockets using the 'drill bit method!' To anyone who had the same problem, I'd suggest wrapping the OLD balance sprocket chain around the sprocket and grabbing with a vise-grip to hold in place while removing/installing the sprocket. By using the old chain, you take the pressure off the single tooth and greatly reduce the likelihood of damaging the sprocket!
Very good advice. The punch/bit method will work, but you do risk breaking a tooth. If we film an updated video for this application, the method you described is the method we will recommend.
Glad i followed this advice. I cut the old chain in half and wrapped it around the balance shaft sprocket and let it bind up against the block. Worked perfect to break the balance shaft bolts loose, then i wrapped the chain around the other way, let it bind up against the block on the intake side and against a bolt boss on the exhaust side and i could torque the sprocket bolts to spec
@@romanfedotov9434 Glad my advice panned out for you. It was REALLY upsetting when I broke not one, but BOTH of my new sprockets (and had to buy two more!)
When the first one snapped, I thought it was my fault or the gear was of poor quality. The second one proved of the stupid idea of using a drill bit!
@@romanfedotov9434 Yep i did this exact thing, ,the pin method just wasnt working
That's how I had to do it, the drill bit way is frustrating
You guys are legends, 5 years and you're still responding to comments! I just performed this job on an LE5 using the Cloyes kits and followed this guide. Thank you for the clear instructions and filming of each step.
One thing I didn’t hear mentioned is if you’re doing this because the chain guide broke, make sure to drop the oil pan and clean out the oil pickup tube. I am in the process of doing one now and the oil pickup tube was completely jam packed with debris. Had I not done this I’m certain the motor would not have lasted more than 5 miles.
Very good point Jerrod. Thanks.
Absolutely. With the engine removed from my ‘08 Cobalt, I took off the oil pan and the OIL PICKUP TUBE was packed with debris. There were metal pieces from the chain guide, and broken plastic guide pieces.
Exactly I,m doing this Job on a 2011 Buick Regal 2.4 mine was also jam packed I took this oil pan off at first to clean out the Metal particles and knew there was debris ,you have to also take the metal Stupid cover off and knock the Oil pickup tube out of its hole first before you even find out what’s in it,stupid design but so are all GM products
A side note the upper chain guide was completely cut in Half,so if you hear any strange noise,take that Valve cover off to inspect
That must've been the it seized on me..broken guide .. replaced chain n everything but didn't check the oil pan now I'm swapping the engine.... (Year later)
Thanks for posting this. Going to do this. Does that tube just pop out?
very impressed with the cost of the VVT kit and this tutorial. all aftermarket manufacturers need to take notice of Cloyes and follow their example. much appreciated!
Made everything simple as shit. I’ve down loads of timing belts but never a chain, and was pretty nervous going into it. This was an absolute gem of a video. 10/10. Glad the engine was out in the vid. Made everything super clear. Thanks
It's too easy that way, and clean too. Cheating, I say.
I love the cloyes timing videos. Used this one today on a customers car. They were quoted 16 hours for the job by the dealer, we did it in 6.
I also used your video for the gm 3.6 in the GMC Acadia. Great videos 👍
This is such a better video than your previous one THANK YOU!! the last video said nothing about taking up the slack of the chain before triggering the tensioner which i believe is why i had slackness in my chain
Like to thank you guys for the great information! I just finished my first Eco timing chain and balance chain replacement on a 2013 Equinox. With your help I was able to get the job done right the first time. I've done some timing chain's before on older cars and got the much needed help from you on these newer engine's. These are a little bit more complex engine's. Thanks again!
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does any of you know a tool to get back into an Instagram account..?
I was stupid forgot my account password. I would love any assistance you can offer me.
@Archie Louis Instablaster =)
@Brodie Moshe I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and im trying it out atm.
Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Brodie Moshe it did the trick and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy!
Thank you so much you saved my account !
@Archie Louis You are welcome =)
i just learned how to replace my water pump and timing chain for free thanks just saved me so much more money!!!
What a great tutorial you made by this, hats off!
Thank You for producing this awesome video. Watched it twice and I am about done with the project. 2012 Terrain with 90k. I bought the complete Cloye kit for the balance shafts and camshafts along with new VVT sprockets. Everything fits like it should so far.
Thank you for posting the video, it is very helpful. I would recommend taking the time to set the engine to TDC and not just a downward stroke so that you can use the markings in the video should you accidentally let the cam or a balance shaft rotate.
I am in the middle of the job on a 2.0 lnf turbo engine, and the balance shaft sprockets on mine do not break loose like they do in the video. Using a punch and a 3/8 drive ratchet my 5/32 punch broke from the pressure. A friend that runs a shop recommended using a small impact hoping the percussion would knock the bolt loose under less pressure, I used a titanium 5/32 dewalt drill bit this time, and with a small impact nothing broke loose, it only slowly warped the drill bit. I grabbed my larger impact to retry and broke the drill bit in half, bolt and sprockets are still on the balance shafts. Any advice would be appreciated
You can remove the shafts from the engine and clamp them in a vice, on the non-bearing surfaces, with a cloth to protect the shafts. That is really the only other option if you can't get the punch/drill bit method to work.
I've got an 07 HHR with 2.2. It currently has 308000 miles on it. Replaced alternator is the only thing I had to do on the engine. It still has the original clutch.
Better go buy some lottery tickets you're luck is about to Run out
@@mftstrifelegit2786 what more do you expect of the motor if it dies tommorrow 308 is good enough
Thanks for this video. I watched many RUclips videos on this procedure, but this is by far the best and most helpful.
Just watched the video and think it will help on this first time on this style engine. I did notice that no one has mentioned that if the original guides are broken or have misplaced parts you had better remove the oil pan and clean them out of the oil pickup tube screen. You will have a greater failure later.
Agreed, i found a number of broken guide fragments and metal from damaged bolts in the oil pan
Ok i have everything broken down and i am trying to remove the balance shaft gears but they will not come off. I tried sticking a punch in the hole to keep the gear from moving but the bolt will not break aloose. Any suggestions ?
If you can reach it with an impact gun, CAREFULLY try a couple of SHORT bursts with the impact gun.
If you dont have an impact gun, or cannot reach with the impact gun, use a breaker bar and sharply hit the end of it with a hammer.
You need sudden sharp force to get the bolt to start moving.
Stay gold.
I am looking at the kits online and notice in the picture of the CLOYES 94201SX there are 5 colored links 3 black and 2 yellow and the yellow links are on each side of one of the black links, so how would this chain align
The 2 yellow links surrounding the black link are marking it as the unique link. Align the black link between the yellows to the intake mark.
Do you know another indication of the TDC in exhaust stoke? Haynes manual states marking on pulley and line mark in engine cover is TDC on compression. My arrows on the camshafts are 10 on intake 12 on intake. That’s the closest I can it to align to the arrows. I also did put a screw driver in cylinder number 1 to to TDC.
Sounds like you are close enough. The engine does not need to be at perfect TDC to set the timing. The chain sets the timing, as long as your links are all aligned properly to the sprockets, then it is in time.
I got kit 9-4201sbwp kit got balance shaft chain all buttoned up got timing chain routed and its like the chain is to short i cant get it around the crank sproket, even tried starting at crank then intake still no luck
Same thing happened to me today. Did you figure it out yet? Seems like the maker of this video is not responding
A few tips for anyone else doing this (my car is 08 Saturn Sky): You probably need a 3-jaw gear puller to remove the pulley. NOT the Y-shaped/peace sign style. No need to rent the gear puller set at the parts store, just buy a 3-jaw puller.
I had to grind the 3 jaw teeth to fit precisely on the pulley. Once pulling, it was easy to get off. I used the old bolt as the pivot point.
If you're doing a water pump replacement at the same time - the WP gear does fit in/out of the hole for the WP.
To take off the WP pulley bolts, I made a bar with 2 holes to allow me to keep the WP from turning while loosening and installing those bolts. I used an alum bar with holes 1-5/8 apart on center, to put one bolt with a 3/4inch plastic spacer in the WP pulley threaded hole, and using the big WP bolt on the boss near it.
Removing the cam gear on the crank required the 3-jaw puller, it's not easy to slip off/on by hand, there's a good amount of friction at the installed position.
Removing the bolts from the balance shafts is a joke. I did not replace them as I bent my punch when I tried to loosen the bolt. Remember these parts have been going through thousands of heat cycles and everything can be stuck together. The video uses clean, demo-only engines. Not real life engines. Also, IMO, it's not required to replace every piece. The markings on the OE balance sprockets are marked but hard to see without good light.
The main cam gear on the crank had plastic cushioner on it. There was a thin shim on the front of it that covered the part number and the timing mark dot, but it was so precisely fit it was hard to see until I took off the whole gear and touched the shim. In hindsight I might have been able to keep that gear honestly.
The main chain for the cams likes to fall off the crank gear. Have a helper to keep it in place while you work.
The balance shaft gear on the crank has a springy action to it so you can't try to turn the balance chain drivetrian after that's all in place.
The vertical metal tensioner only seemed to fit into place from the top, not the bottom.
Buy a plug/bolt replacement for the top vertical chain guide on the driver side so you don't have to fret about losing that top bolt taking it out of the big hole. Apparently it's prone to break.
Most of the bolts are 89 inch-pounds but the GM book specifies 106 for some of the bolts actually.
I ground a tiny slot mark on the outside of the main pulley to mark TOP and painted an arrow. Hopefully there's no "next time".
Putting the main pulley back on doesn't require a special tool, just used the old bolt. I was able to push and wiggle the pulley on for an inch or so, then used the old bolt to press it down. Easy.
I bought a flywheel holding tool on eBay for $15, easy to use in the starter hole.
Tightening the crank bolt to 100Nm + 125 degrees required 2 passes on the degree bar, about 60 degrees each time, as there's not enough room IMO to go all at once. It's the most bolt tightening I've even done. You NEED a 24 inch or longer bar, I used a breaker bar, ie no ratcheting. The degree measure tool from the parts store is like $12.
No gear puller required. Stick a pry bar in there and work it around, I’ve never had one not come off. Don’t be scared.
Did this same job with OE parts back in March, noticed the kit had the 3rd design balance shaft chain included. When did the latest kit come out?
Thanks for the video. I got balance and timing sets installed over weekend(2.2). starts up and has chain clatter. Drove about 1 mile, clatters under load but not coasting. Unceartain if chain tensioner functioning. Do I just remove it to see if its activated and try installing/ activating again ?
And will it seat correctly without removing the front cover again? This is my first experience with this type of engine. Thanks
On the 2009 2.2 VVT the exhaust cam wanted to rotate counter clockwise when the chain came off. The 24mm wrench kept it from moving as it rested agsinst the cowl. In the video it shows having to rotate the intake cam in order to get the sprocket on the exhaust cam. However in my case I had to rotate the exhaust cam clockwise to get it on, since I only had one 24mm wrench and it was locked on the exhaust cam.
Another tip, when putting the crank pulley back on, you can torque it to the initial 74 ft lbs with a large screwdriver between the pulley and the housing. However to get the additional 75 degrees of rotation I chalked the bolt and pulley and then made a mark to where the bolt needed to rotate to for the extra 75 degrees. Then I used my 1400 ft lb impact gun to get it there.
The cams I was able to do myself by hand.
I just replaced timing chain 3 guides and sprocket may car started and runs but it almost sounds like chain rubbing in the valve cover could this be related to the tensioner possibly it being out 2.4 2011 Malibu
Follow up - had been in and out of my timing case 3 times since. Double checked everything. Made sure balance shaft sprockets were at 37ft lbs - the problem ended up being a DEFECTIVE balance chain tensioner. It had sprung, but after a decent amount of pressure, 15lbs orso, it retracted back into its turtle shell. My car has been down about 3 weeks because of this. Do you have a better quality control option? I wouldn't think a brand new tensioner in one of your kits would be defective, but low and behold. Double check all your tensioner and push as hard as you can after you spring it to make sure it does its job.
Do you know which specific 2.4L engine codes this video applies to? Is it safe to say that all 2011 and later 2.4L Ecotec engines will follow this process for the camshaft notch positioning, where the number 1 piston is at TDC on the exhaust stroke when the mark on the crankshaft key is at the 12 o'clock position, the mark on the intake camshaft sprocket is at the 10 o'clock position, and the mark on the exhaust camshaft sprocket is at the 7 o'clock position? I want to make sure that there aren’t any 2011 and later engine codes that would require the mark on the intake camshaft sprocket to be at the 5 o’clock position as is needed with 2010 models. Thank you for your help.
All 2.0L, 2.2L, and 2.4L Ecotec engines follow this basic procedure. In all cases, the unique link aligns to the intake mark on the intake camshaft, and the other 2 chain marks align to the crank mark and the exhaust mark. The chain sets the timing, so as long as the 3 marks are aligned you are good.
Good video. If the original timing chain guide is shattered, do I need to pull down the oil pan to clean debris.
I recommend doing so. You don't want parts of that old guide clogging the oil pump pickup.
is there any reason why I have zero slack to put the new chain on with the tensioner guide in the way?
Me either, sir. Did you ever figure out if this was normal?
At 11:33 how does turning only the intake cam shaft not mess the timing of the whole operation up? This is the only part i am unsure of.
The chain sets the timing. As long as all the marks align when you get the chain fully installed then the engine will be in time. If you need to rotate the shafts slightly to get everything aligned that is OK, as long as the marks align when you are done.
I understand everything till 11:34 ..procedure comes up ..I understand that you move the exhaust or intake cam...counterclockwise wise to "help" the Cam Phaser ..get align with the chain's color link but its not mandatory to move it .??.along it aligned up with the marks? Correct?
@Cloyes01
@@t0ny2trill If your chain and sprockets marks are aligned, then it will be 100% correct. Sometimes all the shafts are sitting perfect and you don't need to move anything, but sometimes you might need to move a shaft slightly to get it to come together. But ultimately the chain sets the timing. If your marks are aligned, then you are in time.
@Cloyes01 thank you cloyes after getting my hands dirty , I see why you need to my move the phasers ...to help you put the chain on and to properly set the phaser on the cam ..it will make a clicking noise .
Why at the end is it not advised to turn the engine over by the crankshaft when installed and timed. I thought your suppose to check if timing is correct and that there is no interference?
If the marks are aligned then you are in time. Rotating the engine by hand only increases the chances of the chain jumping a tooth on a sprocket. The Ecotec engines are bad about the chain jumping a tooth on the crank sprocket before the tensioner can prime up with oil pressure. Slow rotation by hand allows valve spring pressures to move the cams dramatically causing chain slack to shift.
Why does the cloyes 2.4l kit with vvtnot marked on vvtnot sprockets intake or exhaust
I am going to replace just the camshaft sprockets and was wondering if the intake and the exhaust camshaft sprockets are same on the 2.4 ecotec engine? Thanks
The non-VVT engines use the same camshaft sprockets on both cams. VVT equipped engines could have the same phaser on both cams, or some applications used unique intake and exhaust phasers. You can lookup your application on our website to see what phaser combination it requires.
Where would I find a replacement bolt that would go in the left balance chain guide? Had one that snapped on me and am having trouble finding the bolt online. Any help would be appreciated.
Hi I am having the same problem but it is with the right guide bolt. I am thinking of the junkyard, pep boys and this store called smith fastener company. I am just waiting for a ride so I can go there today.
@@rdylima9 I actually found the item number and ordered one from GM Warehouse Parts, then I called my local chevy dealer and they happened to have exactly one in stock. paid like 3.10 plus 40 cent tax or something like that from the dealer. Got me a torque wrench so i didn't make the same mistake again. 2004 Cavalier 2 door with the 2.2 with 200,000 miles. Engine runs so smooth now compared to before. Got a spare bolt now also.
Very informative quick guide. Thx, Cloyes!
Is that balance shaft part number correct? I am getting 9-4202sax
Can the forced induction sprocket be used on an NA?
no.
I ordered at kit from you all for a 2010 equinox and when I get the camshaft sprockets one with the unique color on the intake side and black on the exhaust and black on crank shaft and line the crank sprocket up with the timing mark my exhaust cam is setting between 11 and 12 o'clock and intake is setting close to 2 o'clock does that sound right
That sounds correct. As long as all three marks are aligned you have it right.
It’s difficult to tell from the video, but if the balance shaft chain were to slip off of the water pump, is it possible to remove the cover and realign that chain, check timing without messing at all with the primary chain?
It is possible if you do not need to remove the chain, but if the chain came off the water pump then you likely have a tensioner issue in the balance shaft system.
@@Cloyes01 no it came off cause I didn’t use the tool to hold the pump correctly 🤦♂️ pretty dumb mistake on my part, pulling the cover now.
I've changed my pump and after that the chain rattles....do you reset the tensioner or something? How is you car doing?
@@axxisblack I haven’t gotten all my parts in yet so not finished but I feel like that must
Mean you didn’t line up the tensioner right or didn’t activate it properly
Great video, but don't you need something holding the cams in place so that when you remove the sprockets and chain they don't move and screw up the timing? I've seen these blue or gold cam holders for this project for the Saab 9-3 but in the video I don't remember it mentioned. Thx.
They are not necessary, but can make the job easier. We do not use them during the video. The timing is set by the marked chain links aligning to the sprocket marks. If the cams move during disassembly, you will move the cams back when installing the new chain.
@@Cloyes01 Cloyes, the cam locks are necessary on a Saab if you are going to remove cam sprockets, and probably even if you don't. The sprockets are not keyed to the cam like a regular ecotech. They are just held by bolt tension. The cam sprockets also do not have timing marks on them. Blue locks are needed for the B207L (9-3 Linear little "t" engine, Gold is needed for the B207R big "T" engine. Trust me, I am putting one back together right now.
I bought this timing kit and it is great, however what they don't tell you is that crankshaft harmonic balancer bolt has to be replaced with a new one , it is not included with this kit which I thought was a bummer, these bolts can be hard to find.....
Did u have to pull the engine?
@@psfanboy79 no, I did not have to pull the engine, it is tough to work upside down but it wasn't too bad to do. just put something to cover the oil pan when working on this, if you drop a bolt it could go right into the pan..... just did not think it is right to not include the crank bolt withis kit... but it is what it is....
It's not TTY...re-use it.
@@superdhc ok, thanks did not know that, my maual said it had to be replaced. thanks again for that infro....
@@jeffreysherwood848 torque to yield
I have everything installed correctly and in the proper order but for some reason the chain is too tight for me to even get around the bottom sprocket. Is there a trick needed for the 2.4 ecotec with vvt? I ordered the 94201sa
Put on the crank first, line up that mark, then the intake, then the exhaust.
still having an issue
Question 1) What's the deal with the black plastic guide that always breaks. Is there a reason this peice is solid plastic instead of metal like the other side?
Question 2) I'm only getting a year out of these kits before it's time to change them again is this normal? I've changed my 2012 regal 2.0 lhu 3 times and 2013 equinox 2.4 twice, 8 months apart. The chains are either stretched or black plastic guide is busted.
Did my 2012 malibu in my driveway and im like why the fuck is this plastic. That one was worn, the metal one snapped and fell down. I left it in the pan lol. Ran good until a girl rear ended me and totaled it a year later.
Great video. However, using a punch or drill bit to hold the balance gears in place might work good on an engine stand but was nearly impossible in the tight space of my engine compartment in my 09 Pontiac G6. I did manage to remove both balance gear sprockets with a lot of grit and determination but could not get in a position to torque the bolts when installing and managed to break a tooth on the intake sprocket. Looking through the comments, I see that I wasn't the only one. When I get my replacement sprocket in a couple of days, I plan on re-installing the old chain, crank sprocket, chain guides and tensioner. Then stick a small wood wedge (or a penny) between the chain and the crank sprocket to keep it from turning while torquing the balance shaft bolts to 37 ft-lbs. Unless I hear of a better way, that's what I'm going to do. Now I wish that I left those sprockets in place. They were still in good shape.
That will work well. If we remade this video today we would recommend using the old chain to wrap the sprockets. Then you can allow the old chain to "bunch up" against the block or vice grip the old chain to get the bolts loosened or tightened.
Best assistance ever without college needed! Thank ya!
11:14 do you know what size bolt the tensioner arm takes for the cams I seem to have misplaced mine and its the last thing I need to get my engine back together
Hello!! Let me start by saying, your videos are “SPOT ON”! Your step by step directions are easy to follow, & very thorough!
I am nearly finished with a entire balance shaft, timing chain, & water pump job on a 2012 Malibu 2.4L. With the exception of the water pump, every other part installed, was “Cloyes” brand parts. Top quality parts also, I’d like to add!! I do have a question? As for the timing chain tensioner, is there a way I can verify that the tensioner is engaged, against the guide? I did what the video shows, as for activating it. But, it still seems to me that there is some slack in the timing chain. Is there a way I can verify, (for sure) that the tensioner is in its “activated” state? Any suggestions, would be greatly appreciated!!
Thank you!
Steve L.
Cloyes Gear & Products, Inc. I am doing my timing chain on my 2.2 ecotec and watched your video. This is a great video however I’m doing my timing chain because my old one snapped and bent the valves on cylinder 4. I installed new valves and am ready to do the timing but because my chain broke, what is the best way to get my cams on the exhaust stroke? I already have the bottom half at TDC, I just wanna know how to get my cams In time without piston to valve contact.
Move the crank so all the pistons are down slightly in the cylinders. You can then install the cam sprockets and move the marks to the approximate correct locations. Then you can take the sprocket back off and move the crank back to the starting point.
Primary tensioner just keeps backing off. I can't pull it out. Any suggestions?
Installed a Cloyes timing chain kit in a 2011 NOX in 2017 without benefit of this video, piecing together information from several sources. Anyone doing it now will have a much easier time, due to this video.
The crank bolt deserves mention, however: Does Cloyes sell a new TTY crankshaft balancer retaining bolt? I do not see one mentioned in the kit, and you'll need one. (GM is extremely proud of theirs.) If memory serves, it tightens to 100 NM plus 125 degrees.
Thanks for the great review!
Unfortunately we do not sell the balancer bolt. Great tip!
What happen if I accidentally move the Balance shaft sprockets on disassemble and where do I find out how to fix my timing if it jumped. Thanks for all your help
You can just spin the balance shafts back to where they need to go so the sprocket marks and chain links align. The balance shafts do not connect to anything, so you can spin them freely.
Same thing on the camshafts, however make sure the pistons are out of the way before rotating.
Thank you for your help. Much appreciated.
I've been having a hell of a time. 2006 chevy cobalt supercharged ecotec 2.0 lsj. Bought your balance shaft and timing chain kit, because it was about that time and my thermostat had just gone out. Anyway, I'm probably going to call your hotline tomorrow. Did everything listed, everything torqued to spec.Initially, I didnt spring the timing chain tensioner, after pulling it out, it had been released. My idle was fine on turn over, no engine codes (still no engine codes). Seemed a little heavier I n vibration on the jackstands, but I've got billet mounts, so I assumed the vibration was reverberation due to it still being on stands, it having solid engine mounts, and torque damper. Any revving while the tires are on the car, and I try vibrations like my car is going to fall apart. More vibration the higher the rpm goes. Also, at TDC in cylinder on the compression stroke, my 2 o'clock on the intake says exh, where my exh (firewall side), says int at the 10-11 o'clock position. Cam sprokets only go on one way..not that it should matter, but have you heard of camshaft sprokets being reversed from the dealership? I dont think I could possibly have the timing reversed 180 degrees, because it wouldn't start nicely, or at all, or would backfire from what I'm reading? Could you shine some Insight, or is there any chance that an under or over torqued anything in the timing cover could cause the vibration? Sorry for the novel, I'm all out of ideas. My father just got diagnosed with 4 weeks to live and this is my only vehicle. Please please any help you could give would be great.
Timing is set on this engine with #1 TDC on the exhaust stroke. That explains why your cam sprockets are 180 out on the compression stroke, it is perfectly normal. With the car running, and no codes, you have the engine in time. The vibrations could be caused by a balance shaft/shafts being out of time, but with the colored links aligned correctly with the marks on the sprockets there is nothing you can do wrong there. If you are confident that the marks were aligned then the solid engine mounts are more than likely the cause of the vibrations you are experiencing.
@@Cloyes01 if I didnt set the timing chain tensioner, the 32mm bolt, could that have caused my balance shaft chain to skip a few teeth on start up?
@@Cloyes01 because these arent new mounts, I've had them off the car several times, and back on, mounts torqued to spec. Or is it possible when changing balance shaft sprockets, if the pinch hold (where you catch the tooth to remove the sprocket with a punch or drill bit) slips when putting on a the new sprockets as long as you turn the balance shafts to their correct positions without completing the turn, assuming it slipped right on tighten, I'd move it counter clockwise back, against the direction it turned? OR, if I worked counter clock wise installing the balance shaft chain vs clockwise from your video and others I've seen could that be the culprit? Do I need to turn my motor over 180 degrees and then do the balance shaft chain,should I turn the crank clockwise for a full revolution, or 33 revolutions, to get the timing chain to match up on the marks on the initial install, and then line up the balance shaft chain links to the sprockets?
The balance shaft chain would not be affected by the primary chain tensioner. As long as you pulled the pin on the balance shaft tensioner then you will have no issues.
Turning the balance shafts independently will not matter at all, as long as the marks are properly aligned when the chain is installed. The sprockets have a "D" shaped back so they will only install on the shaft one way. If you want to reset the balance shaft timing you can rotate the engine back to the starting position (cam marks at 10 and 2 with the crank key at 12) then remove the balance shaft chain tensioner and guides. From there you can realign all the marks on the balance shaft system and reinstall the components. You will not need to disassemble any primary components, and keep in mind the colored chain links on the primary chain will not be aligned anymore.
Thank you for simplifying the process for those of us who are not mechanically inclined but also can't afford to pay a minimum of 600.00 to put it in the shop either. I have a 2009 Chevy HHR 2.2L ecotech motor. I have installed the new kit and the water pump and housing, however when I attempt to start the car, it makes a horrible sound coming from the starter and won't start. Please help, I can't wait another 2 months to get my car up and running again.
I shouldnt laugh at this comment... but $600 is cheaper than the new engine your vehicle needs...
Make sure your PCV orrifice, in the intake is clear if you don’t want oil leaks.
Excellent walk-through, I'll be doing just that on my 07 G6. My first car may end up a success story.
When you remove all the guides and the balance shaft sprockets did you use a 10mm socket? Everything else was specified but not those. 3:53-4:51
On my 09 2.4L Ecotec LE5 engine, the balance shaft bolts were 15mm.
Everything was a 10mm bolt on my 03 cavalier, yes.
Im doing mine currently and need advice on the shims that are on my cranshaft gear. One behind and one on front. Keep them when replacing or not? The oem gear has rubber also so maybe shimsnare for that since the new gear has no rubber
We recommend cleaning and reinstalling the thrust washers on the crankshaft sprocket if originally equipped.
I have confirmed, the front cover gasket that I reused was compressed enough that oil got by it at the oil pump, I replaced the gasket with a new one, as I recommend for this job. No more ticking or rattle. Perhaps the chain was replaced before I bought the HHR and the cover gasket was reused and the bolts over torqued .
Glad you got it figured out!
Just got a brand new sprocket from cloyes, it has a broken tooth. Thanks guys!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Would this be same process for Ecotec 2.4L from a 2012 Chevy Equinox?
Very similar, the only difference will be the cam sprockets. You will have phasers instead of plain cam sprockets, but they will be marked as well and everything lines up the same.
@@Cloyes01 Awesome, thank you! Great video's and tutorials!
@@Cloyes01 So if we have phasers are the phaser sprockets used again or do we need to buy new phaser sprockets?
@@kirkfranks1 Phasers can be reused, just inspect the sprocket teeth and make sure they are not heavily worn. It is recommended to replace them while you are in there though.
Do you have for the timing chain cover off because you’ve lost to change the water pump can you pick it back up in there and Cheyann put it back on
I've gone through the install, chain rattle is gone, but now I have a quite bit of engine vibration throughout the vehicle. No codes are coming up. I've replaced the balancer pully and bolt but vibration still there. Engine mounts look good. Car is drivable, just a lot of engine vibration. Now that I just read the last two comments... is it likely my balance shaft 180 degrees out? Anyway to check this without taking everything apart again?
It is possible. You need to make sure you have the correct balance shaft sprockets installed on the correct banks.
Yes that was it. Sprockets were on the wrong sides. I can't believe it. Hopefully it didn't do to much damage from driving it like that.
Hi
After timing chain replacement I was getting P0014: replaced the vvt selenoids Wit oem but Didnt fix it. Then I replaced the vvt phasers with after market ones. Now getting p0011. Do you think it is the aftermarket vvt phaser still giving me that code? I am positive I did the timing right.
Thanks
So I took a 2012 Buick Regal 2.0 to a shop for water pump.. they ended up setting off timing and refused to accept responsibility… I eventually drove it and repeatedly changed ignition coil #2 over and over until it finally went out for good. So now I wanna figure out if I fix timing and do coils and plugs again if all will be good again? Or if it messed up catalytic converter?
It should be good if you get the timing set right and have functioning plugs and coils. The converter should not have been damaged.
Good video! Thorough...and thanks for taking time to answer the questions below!
Thank you!
@@Cloyes01 Quick question: the video says to torque the balance shaft-to-sprocket bolt to 37 ft lbs. Is this correct?
@@bjusticeforever That is correct.
@@Cloyes01 Then someone needs to build a tool other than a 5/32" punch to hold these balance-shaft sprockets. I've broken 3 trying to torque them to 37 ft. lbs!!
Hi cloyes, I have an Opel Zafira 2.2l ecotec engine and am hearing some rattling noise from the left side of the engine is it possible that the noise is coming from the timing chain. Please I need help!
Worn or failing timing systems will make a rattling noise. If the noise is coming from the timing cover area it is likely that is what you are hearing.
@@Cloyes01 Thanks very much for your response
@@Cloyes01 Hi cloyes, What's the best way to fix it the noise. Please I need help!
@@salmanphariss2086 The only way to know the health of the timing system would be to remove the timing cover for an inspection. With the cover off you can check for broken guides, a stretched chain, or an over-extended tensioner. If any of these are the case I would recommend our 9-4201S timing kit to replace the components.
@@Cloyes01 That's very useful. Thanks once again!
Is it the same chains and brackets for vvt 2.2 and non vvt 2.2 and only the sprockets change? And is the timing process and marks the same on both?
Yes, this process works for the VVT equipped engines too. Everything is the same other than the camshaft sprockets.
Very nice tutorial! I have a Fiat Croma with the 2.2 ecotec. I think this is the L61 engine. Could i follow this tutorial? Same specs and markers?
Yes if it's the same engine it will have the same specs and markers
hi this is a similar engine to the B207R the question I have is that do I need a cam locking tool???
The Geekazoid people advise you dont need them and can use molegrips to lock the cams in place but i bought the gold tools. The cam sprockets are free floating on the b207r so they dont have locating lugs like on this video
Is it safe to remove camshafts with Chains removed without the holding tool for valve lash , rocker and valve spring/stem replacement?
I have photographed the cam positions and as far as I can see as long as I put the cams back in proper positions and replace the camshaft caps properly there should be no problem. the Haynes manual does not have cam removal procedure for a engine that already has the
timing and balance shaft chains removed. Thank you!
Yes, it is safe to do so. To your point, just make sure to install the cams back on the correct banks and the caps are reinstalled as removed. Try to find a resting position before you pull them out, meaning the camshafts don't have valve spring pressure against them.
@@Cloyes01 Thank you for your help!
@@Cloyes01 Keep the timing tech videos coming! I feel that timing is one of the most complex jobs to do but with the proper
Knowledge, you realize that it's the complexity that deters people from doing their own timing chains out of fear of doing it wrong. It seems to me that Most if not all manufacturers
Just did this proceedure on my 2013 Buick Verano. Bought an AC Delco kit OEM. Before wjen you drove the car there was like a ticking rattling noise because the chain stretched and was causing P0014 code. Afterwards no check engine light and engine is running smooth again. THANK GOD, at first I thought it was a rod knock
Did u have to pull the engine?
I have same car, my parents gave it to me, the chain is bad shop said so I had them tow to my house, I’m just curious if ima have to pull the engine
@@psfanboy79 no! Its possible to do while it in the car. You do habe to lift the engine a little bit by removing the motor mount
@@adamsgarage5119 thanks! I just replaced vvt solonoids and unfortunately upon closer inspection of the old ones there were bits of metal shavings on the filter screens so I didn’t even bother turning it over. The chain n guides are definitely toast.
Hi - need new chain on my 2007 solstice with 2.0l turbo - with your replacement - was easy to remove power steering belt and main drive belt for ac and drive belt tensioner? Did have to drain oil? And u mention lifting engine up slightly - why needed? My solstice is rear drive so engine front cover behind fan so maybe i need to remove fan/radiator to get at front cover? How many hours approximately take u to do job? Thanks for any update here.
Hey there I’ve got the SS with the VVT. When I’m putting the timing chain over the camshaft sprockets and the crankshaft sprocket, everything goes fine until I use the 24 mm wrench and push back to lock in the exhaust sprocket. It always slips and jumps a tooth on the crankshaft sprocket. I’ve tried three different times and got the same result. Don’t know what’s going on.
Before installing the exhaust sprocket, try to rotate the crankshaft sprocket slightly to shift the chain slack to the other side and see if that helps.
I am in the middle of changing the balance chain on my 2009 2.4L ecotec. I bought kit 9-4202S, but both balance shaft gears are labeled intake. If I try to use the intake gear on the exhaust balance shaft the timing mark will be 180 degrees from what it should be when compared to the original engine exhaust gear.
You are correct, the timing mark will be 180 degrees out if you use the intake sprocket on the exhaust balance shaft. There is supposed to be 2 different sprockets included, one marked intake and one marked exhaust. I apologize for the packaging error. You can work with your vendor to receive a replacement, reuse the old sprocket is it appears undamaged, or remark one of the intake sprockets with a paint marker using the old exhaust sprocket to orientate the mark correctly.
Should the balance shafts slide out some after the new gears are installed on them? They slide out maybe 1/2 an inch.
@@kodycourville7114 If I recall there was some movement. I don’t think it was quite 1/2 inch but I didn’t measure it.
Thanks
@@kodycourville7114 Once the sprockets are installed and torqued, the shafts should have a little bit of endplay but not 0.5". Outward thrust is controlled by the carrier that is bolted down next to the sprockets, and inward thrust is controlled by the back of the sprocket against that carrier.
I've been dealing this problem with my Saturn ion 06 and u make it to simple. I don't have the engine out. I don't have a hoist. I'm going on two weeks without working. I need my car. These videos are helpful but show the what ifs too...
Do any of the bolts under the timing cover require loctite? The chain guide bolts or sprockets?
What happens if I am unsure if the intake and exhaust sprockets moved on removal and install? Wasn't sure if I kept them perfectly still while taking them off.
When you reinstall the chain and align the marks, the camshaft positions will correct themselves if they moved.
@@Cloyes01 I just got everything finished up on a 2012 2.4 Equinox. Started it up and it ran well for about 5 seconds, then the engine started shaking and idling hard. Did the balance chain possibly jump on me?
@@corneliuandsons It is unlikely that you would notice severe symptoms due to a balance shaft timing issue. It is more likely that the primary system is out of time, or you have some kind of VVT system issue if the idle quality is poor.
@@Cloyes01 I made sure all my timing marks were proper when putting the new chain on, triple checked and even marked the camshafts.
The only thing I can think of is that the tensioner wasn't properly activated (but there's absolutely no slack) or one of the cam phasers is "stuck open."
Edit: I'm now realizing that I missed the specified torque specs for VVT phasers. I see it's supposed to be 22 ft lbs + 100 degrees for these phasers.
How does one get the snap ring off to deactivate the tensioner. Its seems the clip wont compress enough to pull off. 😢
We use a set of snap ring plyers and a pocket screw driver. Get the snap ring compressed as much as possible, then wedge the screwdriver in and work the clip out.
If I am correct this is the same timing assembly as a 2012 chevy malibu lt 2.4 L
it sure is!
What about the washers between the crankshaft sprockets
GM did use frictional washers on both sides of the crankshaft sprocket in some applications. If your engine had them, clean them off and reuse them with the new sprocket.
What if I didn’t put them back on? I didn’t even know they were on there till I seen this comment?
@@dgreen4298 Most Ecotec engines do not have any washers. Even if it did, there is no harm in not reinstalling them.
2011 terrain pulled the primary tensioner out noticed it might not have been activated as it pushed back suddently on removal, replaced it with a new one but happened to be faulty as i could not get it to activate,so i checked and put the old one back in since it seemed ok, activated it replaced the valve cover and my gas consumption and power are amazing now, any idea what happened here? I still have a rattle but seems to be less prominent on startups as before and less frequent, thinking of replacing the oil pressured tensioner today, what do you think? The chain links are solid no stretching has happened on the cam shaft chain as ican detect, Nelson Vienneau. Thanks for the great video you guys are amazing!
Either the chain stretched, doubt it, or when you activated the tensioner the slack was on the intake side vs the exhaust side.
On the balance chain tensioner after you pull the "pin" do you have to rotate the plunger? It fits in the guide shoe better??? Very confused there.
When you pull the pin on the tensioner the piston tip should go inside of the tensioner shoe feature. If it doesn't go in that groove on its own, then very little rotation should be required to get it to.
Thanks Cloyes, I see that now and it is all together, didn't take note of that during disassembly, you guys are great!!!!! Oh just a suggestion, on your next video, maybe spend a little more time on both tensioners. I received mine (cam kit) but the tensioner was "activated" I had to disassemble and reset, that was not hard but confusing. Watching video again I seen the plunger is suppose to be sloppy, before activating. Anyway, Thanks again.
Every other video tells me to position cylinder 1 at top dead center of the compression stroke. I have the phase sprockets.
Does the 94201swp complete kit for timing and balance chain with water pump- come with timing cover gasket and gasket for water pump ?
It does not include the timing cover gasket, but the O-ring gasket for the water pump is included.
Any reason why my balance shaft gears are at 1:00 and 4:00 for intake and exhaust, with crank at 6:00, after replacing this chain after a water pump/timing chain swap, I have a low frequency vibration and can't figure out where it's coming from.
What is improved about the Cloyes balance shaft sprockets vs the GM sprockets? Do the GM sprockets have a rubber core vs the Cloyes one piece design? I apologize if this was asked and answered already. I browsed through a years worth of comments and didn't see it mentioned.
Our sprockets are simplified, therefore eliminating potential failure points. We eliminated the cushion rings on the balance shaft sprockets and the rubberized coating on the crank sprocket. These features were originally designed to quiet chain-to-sprocket engagement but can cause system issues if they fail. You will not notice any noise differences with our sprockets and there is no potential for the cushion rings to break or the rubberized coating to deteriorate.
@@Cloyes01 Thanks for the reply. This reminds me of the old days when GM put nylon teeth on the cam sprockets in their V6's and V8's supposedly to quiet things down. It didn't work out that well. Mine stripped out on my '66 Buick. Luckily, it wasn't an interference engine. Replacing it with an iron sprocket did not make the engine any noisier.
9-4201SWP are the cam sprockets for VVT?
a question,, the little notch on the tensioner...will as you spin it in, it also rotates,,.. will it match up with the notch on the tensioner guide?
Yes, that notch will align itself to the corresponding feature of the tensioner guide.
do the timing marks on the NA crank balance sprocket and the force sprocket match up? It doesn't seem like it on the kit I bought. maybe the +/- 5 degrees on the forced is the reason why?
They are different, but the timing procedure is the same. Just make sure the marks on the chain and sprockets all align.
After rebuilding the head on this. Replacing the guides, tensioners and, chain. The car is giving me a code for p0016 which is crankshaft position, intake camshaft correlation code. The engine runs really good after the rebuild. Starts up immediately, no power loss, no misfire at all even under load. (using diagnostic) what could this code be?
That could be referencing that the camshaft timing is off a tooth, the VVT system on that bank isn't working properly (phaser/solenoid), or the cam or the crank sensors are not reading correctly. Stretched chain is also possible if the system is worn, but not if you just replaced it.
It’s a slight ticking noise, it’s an Ecotec 2.4 with VVT in a 2011 HHR , new water pump, 9-4201SA timing chain kit and 9-4202S balance shaft chain kit.
A ticking noise would definitely not come from those sprockets. Were you getting the noise before the repair? If the ticking noise is timing related it has to be tensioners, oil pressure to tensioners, or the VVT system.
I just replaced both chains and made absolutely sure the timing chain tensioner deployed, I do hear a bit of noise like possibly the new balance shaft sprockets, the new style , you show in this video, is it possible I just hear a little chain noise?
What kind of noise is it? You shouldn't hear anything different from the balance shaft sprockets.
13:51 "it is not advised to rotate the engine by hand". I do not understand you should not rotate the engine by hand. Could someone explain that?
Once you install the components we do not recommend rotating the engine for any reason other than starting it. Slowly rotating it by hand can cause the chain to jump because the tensioner is not primed with oil keeping the chain tight and the valve springs make the camshafts load back and forth. Faster rotation, like with the starter, keeps the camshafts loaded and decreases the chances of the chain jumping.
After the tensioner is full of oil and is applying pressure to the tensioner shoe rotation is no longer an issue.
@@Cloyes01 Thanks.
How do you put the torque converter bolts in without roatation of the motor?
@@austinadams8405 put torque converter bolts on first
I was saying the same thing . If you take this engine out to do the timing on an engine stand then you risk the fact of having to turn the engine when putting the torque converter bolts on . I guess the only answer here is do the timing replacement while the engine is still in the car.
This video is a big help. I wish you had a video on replacing valve guide seals on the 2.2 ecotec. Wife's car smokes especially after idling a while at a traffic light or first start up.
Thanks. We only specialize in the timing components so you will just see timing content from us, but I understand. Change the PCV valve first if you haven't already, just to make sure that isn't the problem.
@@Cloyes01 Thanks for the reply but there is no "conventional" pcv valve. There may be something built into the underside of the valve cover but haven't been able to find anything for sure and that would be an expensive guess. Thanks again, if I can solve this problem I'll probably be looking y'all up for the timing chain kitdls. Her car has been a great car(2003 Saturn Quad coupe) untill this smoking and has 171k miles and still looks brand new. Thanks again!
Thank you for the reply, I will reopen the valve cover and front cover, investigate the possibility of an oil pressure problem.
How do you know where to align the exhaust sprocket? on the balance shaft
The sprocket will only index on the shaft one way, then you put the sprocket mark at 6 o'clock and align with the marked chain link.
@@Cloyes01 Thank you so much. Bought my Cloyes kit and I am excited to have my engine back.
Why would you not rotate the crank 720° before throwing everything back together? Wouldn't you want to do this to make sure you're timed properly and don't have any interference? Just curious. Great video.
Rotating the engine by hand, particularly in this application, comes with a risk of jumping time. Since the tensioner has no oil pressure behind it, the chain will have some slack. That slack shifts as the camshafts open and close valves and will allow the chain to jump teeth on the crankshaft sprocket. If the marks are all aligned properly there is no chance of interference. We recommend the first rotations of the engine be with the starter.
@@Cloyes01 thank you!
Doesn't the starter just turn the crank?@@Cloyes01
@@rkw3000 Yes, but the speed and constant load from the starter does not allow chain slack to shift back and forth as severely as turning it by hand.
@@rkw3000 Yes, but it is about the speed at which it turns. Slow rotation by hand allows the chain slack to shift back and forth because of the valves opening and closing. With the shifting of the slack, plus the tensioner not being primed up with oil, it is really easy for the chain to jump on the crankshaft sprocket. When you turn it over with the starter, there is a much lower chance of the chain jumping.
Hi Cloyes, thank you so much for this video. I will be ordering Cloyes timing chain kits for main and balance on my 2.4 Ecotec. Very clear cut instructions however I only want to verify one thing, I have the VVT version and the only step I'm thinking about is the one where the cam phaser holding tool was mentioned in the video. Can I substitute using the tool with just a plain wrench like shown in the video to hold the cams steady to install/uninstall the bolts? Or is there more that I am missing here? I don't want to damage the cam phasers. Any advice is much appreciated.
The camshaft holding tools are not required for the VVT equipped engines either. The same process of using the hex features on the camshaft can be used. The cam holding tools may make the job easier, but are not required, and you are not risking phaser damage by not using them.
Great, Thank you so much for the response.
I ordered the 9-4201SX set for a 2011 Chevy Equinox and the links of my chain do not look like the chain used in the video. My whole chain appears a lighter shade of gray with one light golden link and two darker black links. Is this the correct chain or did I wind up with a knockoff?
How do I verify the #1 piston is at TDC on correct stroke? I replaced the head after chain broke and bent valves. I can get everything to line up but am unsure if #1 is on proper stroke.
If everything is aligned, then it is on the correct stroke. If the engine was 180 out, then the cam sprocket timing marks would be down.
This is helpful I just need to find quality parts to install now I swear the last time I watched this it said nothing about the chain tensioner but now seeing it is awesome
Hello. Great video. I recently ordered the 9-4201S kit to install into my 2.2L L61 engine. I will also be changing the cap and bearings, the motor is on an engine stand. After Top-Dead-Center, do you suggest I start from the cap and bearings, then work my way to the 9-4201S timing chain installation? Thanks.