Through the Ages: Aztecs and Mayans (AoE2)
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Part eight of a mini-series looking back at the changes made to the original civilizations in Age of Kings. The focus this time is on Aztecs and Mayans.
0:55 Concerns about historical authenticity
2:40 Which 2 American civs, and how to make them different?
3:15 No cavalry
4:19 Aztecs
9:55 Mayans
14:42 Current stats for Aztecs & Mayans
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsou...
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition
You forgot to mention the addition of Xolotl warriors in DE. They are incredibly rare sure, but still an intriguing addition
I love those
Maybe they could make those a "reverse/shared team bonus": being in a team with a non-American civs gives you access to Xolotls
Could move them to the Barracks to make them easier to train
@@Ratciclefan That would defeat the point
@@Testingthisname I guess
@@Testingthisname just give Mayans redemption then
I really like the Change, that you're not spoiling all the Changes in the Summary at the Beginning anymore. That way we can see the gradual Change way better and not count what's coming next in our Head!
agreed
yep this new style has me hooked in like a fish with a hook lmao
@EaqIe oh shit, I didn't notice!
@EaqIe okay, now what?
@@EaqIe you are
I still miss miss Obsidian Arrows, one of the most fun unique techs in the game
Just a LIIIITTLE BIT overpowered xD
Yup. I loved the Mayans only because of that tech.
Must have been quite a remarkable lady, this Miss Arrows. 😜
The Mayans had naval battles, Tulum was a famous navy city.
What i still miss is a Mayan attack tower for sieges, like an immovable siege tower but usually they had archer battles in sieges and thus build towers infront of enemy walls to provide level for their archers.
Aztecs have always been my favorite civilization in AOE II. They have always seemed like the underdog in that game while still being so strong.
That's precisely why I love playing with Aztecs, back in the day when I started playing everyone just seemed to brush them off and make fun of them, funny enough one of the arguments I received against them was one from Braveheart about them not having cavalry lol, but if you played correctly you could threw them off balance when they were so used to cavalry.
Not gonna lie, the historical accuracy debate gets really annoying at some point. They don’t get gunpowder or cavalry units, but people still wanted to take even more away? It’s still a video game in the end, balance comes before accuracy and I think they did an absolutely fantastic job with having them feel extremely different while still feeling relatively familiar for aoe2 players (which is an incredible design philosophy that has carried through all expansions)
If I were to design a game like this, I think how I would do it is define general unit jobs, e.g. "heavy cavalry", "anti-archer archer" etc., then sit down and design a few different unique tech trees for different cultural groups. It's not just American Indians, there are a lot of others that don't make sense, e.g. Muslim or East Asian civs getting knights. Of course, they would still get a heavy cavalry, it just wouldn't be a knight. This would (a) make different cultural groups feel more distinct and unique, (b) give each group an aesthetic that properly fits the culture (similar to architectural styles), and (c) help preserve balance despite not being identical, because a lot of the same unit jobs still exist across multiple cultures.
I guess it would be a bit like AoE4 (or what I've heard about it; haven't played it yet). Something I think AoE4 should do is something similar to the concept of "echo fighters" from fighting games, where you have a character with the same or very similar moveset but slightly different stats. Basically, right now each civ has a unique tech tree, so what they could do is add "echo civs" that use the same tech tree as another civ but with some minor tweaks or with different bonuses. For example, the English could have the Celts as an echo civ. That's pretty much what I'm suggesting in my first paragraph, where civs in the same cultural group are essentially echo civs of one another, using the same techtree with tweaks.
@@Greywander87 Things is the knights being the same in appearance and name for all factions is so players easily recognize what they are faccing and how to deal with it. Making every unit of every faction different visually and in stats, while more interesting, would be confusing and hell to balance.
Chinese don't have gunpowder
Everything from there is relative i guess
@@Greywander87 AoE3 was actually pretty good about this, where the smaller number of civs (14 max in base DE) allowed each civilization to have its own unique collection of units and cultural quirks. The Ottomans in particular were always one of my favorite civs because of how dramatically different they felt, the Russians slightly less so thanks to their (somewhat innaccurate) penchant for human wave tactics (training settlers and strelets en masse).
@@PoorManatee6197 While this _could_ be an issue, I'm not convinced that it has to be. The same argument could be made regarding architectural styles, and yet those have been executed so flawlessly that you would probably recognize a building in a style you'd never seen before. This is because there are any number of ways to communicate what a unit or building is, and a lot of the same methods can be applied to units as well as buildings. Things such as giving all heavy cavs lots of armor (or even just helmets), or similar types of infantry hold their weapons in the same stance, and so on.
The major thing to watch out for is making completely different units look too similar. IIRC, this was an issue in AoE3, where you couldn't tell the difference between heavy or light infantry just by looking at them. As long as you avoid that pitfall, then the worst case scenario is that there's a learning curve while players learn what each unit looks like in each different style, and once that's done it's no longer an issue. But I think that there are ways to even get around that by giving proper indicators that tell you what a unit's job is even if you've never seen that unit style before, just like with buildings.
i think the decision to make eagle warriors a unique unit type and not a reskinned calvary, and the subsequent design that went into it in no small part added to the longevity of the game and why its still played today. Not just in the actual moment to moment gameplay we experience, but the concurrent philosophy behind it feels like a perfect example of the design philosophy moving forward. It established that paradigm shifting additions and changes werent off the table and "risking the balance of the formula" wasnt this sacred untouchable concept for them. I think it really ushered in the new era of AoE2 that we still experience to this day.
They went even further with Indians not having knight and in extensions making all 4 split Indian civs unable to make knights but compensated in a lot of other way.
Yep, it pretty much paved the way for all the new stuff that was added, which often has a radically different design philosophy compared to what the first dev team thought, and it still works and mostly fit (even most of the weird stuff is changed and improved at this point). They even fully split an existing civ into several sub civs, which is crazy imo but it works
RIP Obsidian Arrows! Though having Bombard Arbalests was pretty ridiculous.
Nothing better than playing with the Aztecs and doing a conversion to a stable. It’s great to see their Xolotl Warrior coming out!
I love that AOE is still going strong
I think it's the last game made that feels like chess. Hopefully it'll last for even half as long!
The thing with Mayan farming might have been noticed very early, just not well documented. Pros who have been in the scene for a long time used to pick Mayan female villagers to farm specifically, saying that this increases work rates. It only existed in early versions though, and I could have remembered wrong because I can't seem to find any mention of it now.
There was a mention of it on aoe wiki. This means people must have investigated mayan farming early, but they may have overlooked the difference between civs.
Spirit mentioning 2014 ZeroEmpires made me feel older than meeting my 2 y/o nephew.
just got the Age 2 Definitive edition! Its so nice to see how the civs evolved overtime
oh man you are in for a treat my friend. im still amazed at how much this game has improved and changed over time. its really a whole new experience in a familiar format rather than just a remastered old game.
@@cameronlackey7301 Where as HD felt like a cashgrab DE really added alot to the player enjoyment.
In 2023, Age 2 will grow even bigger :)
Enjoy the game, there's plenty of fun civs to explore and campaigns too.
Just grab all dlc here. Boy i love Poles, Hindustanis and Butgundian campaign
The carry capacaity has very little to do with how much farmers walk around on their farm and very much with the actual farming mechanic: whenever a villager stops to pick up food they collect 1/4 of their max carry capacity (up to the regrowth limit of the farm) which is the reason carry capacity is so important for farming.
This becomes very noticeable in 256x tech because when you research wheelbarrow many times your villagers will stand still for many minutes at a time.
At least I remember that happening in HD
@@TheOppaiLord yes. thats why food is the limiting factor in 265x tech mod. farm regrwoth rate cant be changed. and its even worse: villagers will not drop off food until they carry limit is reached and you ahve 20 vils with each ~200 food on them but non in the bank. which is why I like Khmer who will not carry that food around forever.
Oh, is that how it works! I've recently tried to make some calculations about farming rates and this explains a lot.
Always love these historical overviews. I appreciate you looking up how people in those time periods viewed the topics.
I really appreciate the use of pre-HD footage when talking about the original implementation of a civ, and the switch to DE footage when comparing that to how it is now.
Also, as someone who played Sid Meier's Colonization, I'm well aware of how dangerous American Indians become if you give them horses (also, muskets). Might have been interesting if they got access to stables in Imperial Age or something, though that might only make sense if there's a European civ in the same game. Maybe that would be more appropriate for AoE3, though.
I hope they do something about the Dravidians case - 1. lack of mobility, 2. vulnerability to siege and siege UUs like Hussite Wagons amd Organ Guns, 3. lack of raiding units, 4. answer to raiding units, 5. food intensive units, and lastly 6. castle age struggle.
I was pretty sure the hussar wasn't in the game yet, but a quick search told me they were introduced already with the AoC expansion, so it would have made sense indeed that they would think of 3 stages for the eagle too.
They were released at the same time, but i guess it's possible that eagles/american civs were finished before the devs even made the hussar.
Still waiting for the Andean architecture set.
I really like the Aztec Cavalry, they are seen rarely because of how op they are. They are so good that they let knights beat them. Good job Xolotl warriors
The question I have had all these years is... why the Aztecs speak a Maya language? specially considering how alive Nahuatl is in the current era, it should be possible to get voice actors in the language.
Mayans have Spanish legend about city of gold somewhere in South America that give theirs "Aztec" units more HP as unique technology :D so there were a few things done wrong with mesociv
Yup... Aztecs deserve a proper Nahuatl voice acting :(
@@Just_a-guy Loool, I see you watched the video about Tibetans having Santa Clauss as their unique technology and Camel Archer as their UU 😅😂🤣
@@Kriegerdammerung no, but I want to watch :D do you have link?
@@Just_a-guy Here ruclips.net/video/XKU4lqQkzd0/видео.html !!!
I hear the growl of the jaguar...
I miss Obsidian Arrows. I also wish Xolotl Warriors were actually good-it's difficult to get into a situation where you can train them, so they should at least be comparable to Cavaliers.
One idea might be to give a "Heavy Xolotl Warrior" upgrade in Imp, which boosts them to a Cavalier equivalent. Another possibility (instead of or in conjunction with the prior) would be to let the American civ's infantry unique techs apply to the Xolotl Warrior.
@@jrggrop Notably in Post-Imperial matches they are far stronger, roughly on par with weaker Cavalier. There is no upgrade for them avaliable in any game mode with any settings, not even a hidden tech in editor you can enable without modding; you either have base Xolotls or Cavalierish for whole game.
I actually wish they were different from knights. Maybe less HP and more attack, or make them a bit weaker but cheaper and faster to train. They are so hard to get, but feel useless sadly.
My suggestion is to turn them into a cataphract, and maybe have a hidden bonus among the unique techs for them.
Have them as a mobile anti-infantry unit would be more interesting than just an unupgradable knight.
I don’t know if you know how much serotonin “hey guys, SotL here” brings me
I’d like to also add the Meso-Americans came to America by boat.
I think at this point, since non-castle Unique Units are more common, a reskin for stuff like petards that still do functionally the same thing would work out fine, especially as sprites and other assets are no longer being crammed onto a disc.
Love the Through the Ages series, keep them coming :D
This reminded me of the plumed archer joke SotL made in his Mayans Civ overview. Good times
To put some nuance to the idea that Aztecs was nerfed into middle of the pack, I'd say that they keep performing at higher levels.
The top 3 Arabia civs in competitive are still probably Chinese-Aztecs-Mayans in whatever order. For different reasons, Chinese and Aztecs are a lot harder to use at lower levels than Mayans which explains the difference in winrates.
The bonus of Aztecs really come into play with fast and aggressive playstyles that maximize them: faster producing military units is notably useless at a level where there is idle production anyway, and cheaper archers from Mayans massively outperforms that bonus at lower levels. But the faster the pace of the game, the stronger the Aztecs are.
Yeah, strength of Aztecs lies in deadly push during castle age and early imp with their unmatched military production. Lower elos like to build up peacefully before properly attacking, effectively wasting Aztecs' best time to shine.
What I find strange in AoE2, is that on paper, all civs, need to ideally be equally matched, but with more than 40 civs, that's virtually impossible. So they change the civs, again and again, only to tip the scales in some other way, that will be rectified later.
To be fair to them, they somehow still managed to get the balance better than most other RTSs, who only had to worry about 3-4 Civs
I liked how different the civs used to be - when things are too well balanced it all starts to feel the same and loses some of the charm that kept me playing through the 2000's
On historical authenticity, there's the ongoing issue that Aztecs in-game don't speak their Nahuatl language but a blend of Mayan dialects
Reminds me of how the Byzantines speak Latin when they should be speaking Greek. Latin was the language of the Western Roman Empire, which explains why it was so ubiquitous in western Europe and eventually evolved into the family of Romance languages. The Eastern Roman Empire, AKA the Byzantine Empire, spoke Greek, which is why Eastern Orthodox churches use Greek instead of Latin as their liturgical language.
@@Greywander87yes and no. The eastern Roman Empire, like the Roman Empire earlier, blended use of Greek and Latin. Greek really only truly takes over much later as the almost sole language, but especially before the Islamic conquests, latin was still a dominant language in an extremely multi-cultural and multi-lingual empire, and remember that the byzantines were crafted initially with the hun campaign as a major aspect of its identity. Even later added campaigns, focusing on Italy, would actually support Latin use since early medieval Vulgar Latin and the earlier italian would be in play in the peninsula much more than Greek
I always found that strange because there are millions of Nahuatl speakers. Shouldn't be hard to find one to record clips, even if they use modern Nahuatl rather than classical.
@@CouchTomato87 Nahuatl was destroyed by the Spanish, modern day Nahuatl is like "slang" Nahuatl and it is "incomplete" But, sure for the basic phrases in game: like chop wood, mine stone, hunt, kill, etc. it could work I gues.
@@amauriherrera6022 The same happened with the Basque in Spain (in fact, I think that the Nahuatl has it better), but well, I prefer this over losing the language. It wouldn't be difficult to get some advice from someone who knows Classical Nahuatl, though, no? There are texts in Nahuatl from the sixteenth Century, so it's a known dialect, even if it isn't spoken nowadays, as far as I know.
People debate the historic accuracy of in-game technologies but just kind of ignore "Mayans"
Ita supposed to be Maya right?
@@kR-qj7rw Yup. The -n at the end is only used when refering to the *Mayan* language
can't wait for Briton and Spanish Through the Ages
I like that you put some footage of the original game in the backround!
Hopeful for a graphic dlc that gives the standard units a more regional feel. Ie, regional shields, retaining the color/white quartering. Modified greatswords ect
Maybe I'm the only one bothered by this, but other than in AoE2, "Mayans" is not a word. Like, at all. The civ and the people therein, singular or plural, are called Maya, and "Mayan" is just an adjective (Mayan architecture, Mayan calendar, etc)
always had a soft spot for the aztecs; as kid playing the game, this video shows why
IMHO Aztecs have been punished heavily, like I don't remember a clear nerf to Franks or Mongols, which are usually the top tier civs, and all time (since 1999) have been top 5 civs...
I wonder why is the motivation of this...
Lead designer lost too many games to Aztecs back then. 🤣
Those interview answers are top-tier fr.
I agree with the architecture, I like the images you show in 2:51 as an example, they should have done it that way. It looks more unique to each civ. They should reskin some units of the american civs like they took care with the newer indian, asian and european civs, with more unique units and architecture. For example the incas, instead of eagle warrior, they could reskin it and call it a "condor warrior or Kuntur warrior" and the monks shouldn't look exactly the same. And of course revamp the architecture, because I think the three american civs look too similar.
Also they could add even more american civs like Olmecs (For AOE1), and for AOE2: Tehotihuacans, Toltecs, Zapotecs, Totonacs, Mixtecs. I think they could be great new content.
I only hope they stop nerfing Aztecs. :(
Ok then, thx for the video, keep up with the great content and have a great new year!
Loving these, don't stop making them! Well, at least until you run out of Civs
I always thought petards/demo ships used barrels filled with fat/straw/greek fire/sulfur/gunpowder as fitting for civ/scenario
Love through the ages. Thanks for the vids
I think they could do a historically accurate re-design of Jaguar warriors that would serve to make them better and more interesting.
In Aztec society, the warrior class was strongly encouraged not to kill in combat, but to capture the enemy and to transport them back to the capitol.
Warriors were awarded rank, status, and wealth, based on the number of slaves they were able to capture. Jaguar warriors were among the elite, and were given their status because (I believe) they captured 5 or more slaves.
Theoretically you could imply this theme by making it so that, when a Jaguar warrior kills a unit, you gain the value of that unit in resources.
The Jaguar warrior could then be retooled to be more effective as a raiding unit by increasing their movement speed and their pierce armor.
In this way, the Jaguar warrior could be made not only more historically accurate, in terms of its role in Aztec society and the “raid and capture” style of combat they were highly trained in, but would also double down on the Aztec’s strategic identity in AoE as a civ who’s primary advantage is their robust economy, which is best leveraged through aggression.
this through the ages is making me feel my own through the ages :P. I remember getting the conquerors expansion and not liking either of the meso civs but finding Spanish super OP.
I think you should do a through the ages for the actual game. I was amazed by the QoL features intoduced in the first expansion. The idle villager button, the farm que, it was a million years ago but all the little things we take for granted now make this game so great. I also think about the competitors for this game. C&C was so simple and the build que was so lame. Starcraft and Warcraft did not have random map, and because of that it came down to who could push hotkeys and build orders more that strategy. AoE2 was the best game by far.
Another nerf was that the military production bonus stopped affecting Monks at one point.
Makes sense; Aztec monks are already beasts.
I am sad to say mistakes in the subtitles keep cropping up. Pierce armor is put down as pure summer
Whoever writes the subtitles is both deaf and stupid
Could you please do a video on the ubiquity of the Knight line? I'm curious if looking at their numbers might reveal why they've been so meta-defining in the past.
Out of the generic power (gold) units, they're the easiest to use effectively.
While I struggle a bit with the lack of cavalry, the Mezoamerican civilizations got style, and the eagle warrior is amazing.
It is a small thing, but I absolutely love that Definite Edition added a hidden Mezoamerican cavalry unit. I want to replay the Montezuma campaign just for that unit alone.
It speaks for the quality of the core design of the game if you can have these civs from 2001 without mounted and gunpowder units and also additional missing stuff but they are still viable to top tier in common settings today.
Enjoyed the vid SotL but something I was hoping u'd address - why r the Aztecs held in such high regard by the pros in 1v1s?
Like in this yrs Red Bull Wololo tourney, they were always either banned or picked 1st ...
Aztecs are THE number 1 most dangerous civ in the game. Nobody else can match their xbow/siege/monk production speed. They can kill you before you get to your ideal comps and it's hard to stop them. However only good players can make proper use of that timing.
This is my New Year's present.
And also a day after The Forgotten 10 year anniversary
The Eagle Scout was never in The Conquerors, it is made by Forgotten Empires
You should take a look art Age of Chivalry, an absolutely amazing mod based on historical accuracy, to me much more expansive even than Rome at War. Totally make a video about it someday
"They would have used iron armor in a different climate."
I mean... technically, that's just true of technology in general. Had the first "Native Americans" to cross over from Asia not wiped out the horses in North America, the Central and South American civilizations would have used them. If not for the harsh climates of Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, Europe, etc., the civilizations there likely would not have started farming.
The argument falls flat when applied more broadly.
But it's only one of two arguments Sandy brought forward. The second one was that plate armor represented the best armor in that situation - the Spanish took off their armor once they got to the New World because it simply wasn't feasible in their climate. For the meso civs, plate armor simply represents the best armor they used at the time.
@@DutchAver i don't really buy that sounds like excuses
If they were magically teleported to the old world and fought the saracens or vikings then they would adopt iron and steel anyway. The game at its core is so absurd that it's not that much of a problem IMO. More realistic techs would be pretty nice tho.
@@DutchAver That's not a separate argument. What you're saying is the basis for the argument that they would have used iron and steel if it was right for the situation.
Which even then, I doubt, since many tools and weapons benefit from being made of iron, and there's no evidence from what I can see of Mesoamerican iron/steel tools. Metalworking in Mesoamerica focused on softer metals.
I mean, if we're going to nitpick, why does "Iron Casting" affect melee attack? Cast iron is too hard and brittle to use for melee weapons.
Oh man did that picture of the MSN Gaming Zone bring me back.
Ngl, I absolutely LOVE mobbing people ElDorado with Plumed Archers and Halberdiers, throw in some Rams and Trebs and the game is yours.
I STILL reeeeeally hope we get at least one or two north American civs in DE. I would love to toy with AoE II takes on the Huron or Algonquin or summat. I know that's cutting it close to AoE III's time period, but I feel we already have anyhow at this point. There's a Haudenosuanee tomahawk warrior in the game already. haha
The Mayan farming rate penalty *was* known in the Zone days. It was documented in one of the testing threads on the AoKH forums. I can't hunt it down for you because I no longer have my login, but I was there.
Man, it was an unexpected flashback to see that Zone screenshot
I really don't like how they nerfed dark age eagle scouts. They went from about parity w/cav scouts through dark and fuedal, to just being worse overall scouts
Ah, the good ole days when developers main concern with a game was balance, cohesiveness, and fun factor.
The loss of obsidian arrows will always go down as one of the top 5 saddest aoe2 moments
Top 1: Incas losing blacksmith bonuses in Feudal
saracecn+mayans was an OP combination.
I wish they had given the Aztecs their language given its in accurate in two games and i was hoping they would do that for DE, same for Goths and Byzantines
Back in the early 00s, Aztecs were a really powerful infantry civ. My strategy involved getting lots of Jaguars, Eagles and Spearmen into Rams and just breaking through enemy walls to drop them inside their base and wreck havoc.
So many years later, both units feel extremely useless against pretty much anything.
Infantry in general get destroyed by archers and cavalry who can just hit and run.
I love the Mezoamerican civs the most, but their lack of cavalry does make them underpowered these days.
These details make the game more enjoyable
Love this series!
Happy new year!
1:12 I like how the dev answers the question and is completely wrong. Leave history to the history people. Just say it was for game balance. Although it is true some conquistadors stopped wearing plate armor (of the few who stopped many went to chainmail, only a few went to leather) it wasn't because of the armor rusting, or the other reasons he gives, it is because the armor was overkill because the native people had not developed metal armor production. His claim that if these civs were located in northern Europe they would have 100% developed advanced armor forging techniques in totally baseless and purely speculation.
"Most conquistadors wore a full set of armor which consisted of a heavy breastplate, arm and leg greaves, a metal skirt, and protection for the neck and throat called a gorget. Even parts of the body such as elbows and shoulders, which require movement, were protected by a series of overlapping plates, meaning that there were very few vulnerable spots on a fully armored conquistador. A full suit of metal armor weighed about 60 pounds and the weight was well distributed over the body, allowing it to be worn for long periods of time without causing much fatigue.4 It generally included even armored boots and gloves or gauntlets.
Later in the conquest, as conquistadors realized that full suits of armor were overkill in the New World, some of them switched to lighter chainmail, which was just as effective. Some even abandoned metal armor entirely, wearing escuapil, a sort of padded leather or cloth armor adapted from the armor worn by Aztec warriors."
Except they didnt switch to maille, and in fact, it was called something derogatory because the native's arrows could seemingly go straight through it. The memoirs of the conquistadors frequently make note that the legs were not well protected. The people who did stop wearing it probably stopped wearing plate for the reasons everyone else stopped wearing it: you don't need armor when you are skirmishing with a harquebus or musket.
Not overkill tho. Most of them were just too poor to afford plate armor, and even those that did still weren't safe from darts, maces and stones.
The truth is that the ichcahuipilli protected against mesoamerican weapons as well as metal armour (and did a decent job against european arms as well), was a bit cooler and much easier to get. Wearing it underneath plate, that was the best protection one could get.
@@ahmicqui9396 Well I have a history degree and disagree, and I am quoting published historians that disagree. Also "too poor", it has nothing to do with wealth (North American Natives had plenty), the Native Americans did not have the armor forging techniques (knowledge) to create the armor the Spanish had. I have Taíno and Cherokee in me. Sometimes when civilizations go to war they are not on equal footing technologically. Look at how the British Empire conquered a good amount of the globe, and had the world's best navy for how many centuries. Should we give the Britons way better ships than any other civilization? The answer is no, AOE/AOE2/AOE3/AOE4 etc. are not historical documentaries, this is a fun game we love to play that is rooted in a very small amount of historical truth. It needs to be balanced, otherwise who would want to play the side at a huge disadvantage? However, history is not balanced. Just because it is historical fact doesn't mean that my native people, or any other Native Americans are inferior, or aren't as smart as Europeans. It just means that they didn't have the technology we are talking about. If Ichcahuipilli armor was just as effective why is this the case? ".3 A heavily armored conquistador could slay dozens of foes in a single engagement without receiving a serious wound." I want to be very clear for anybody reading this. The number one factor in the conquistadors success was most likely disease. However, horses, gunpowder (cannons and firearms), full plate metal armor, and sheer luck (the main conquest came at a time of civil war, and there were Native Groups that helped the conquistadors) helped a few hundred conquistadors triumph over millions of native people. I will end with this, I weep for what was done to my people centuries ago, but that doesn't change the fact that the Native people did not produce metal armor, high quality full plate metal armor played a role in their conquering, and having that full plate armor was a huge advantage.
Thank you for correcting that.
@@Progeusz Not sure if you are talking to me, but if you are then you are welcome.
0:34 ALL HAIL THE NERD KING!!!
I know not many of them have well-record history or oral tales, but I wish we'd get more native american civs, at least one or two. If it was another one from the Andes region we could finally have a bit of variety for the Pachacuti campaign (and justification for a new architecture set since it seems FE doesn't want to make single-civ sets anymore).
The Chimu would be a nice addition for sure. The Mixtec are a must, they have almost the best recorded history in Mesoamerica, second only to the Maya
@@ahmicqui9396 I'd like both Wari and Chimu for extra diversity in Pachacuti, but people say Wari wouldn't be doable due to lack of campaign material
Maybe we could have a four-civ DLC again: Waris and Chimus from the Andes, and Mixtecs from Mesoamerica
I'd maybe include Tlaxcalas to make four
@@Ratciclefan Wari needs a Tiwanaku! Wari, Tiwanaku, Chimu and Mixtec would be perfect. Tlaxcallan is literally Aztecs but with Heron Warrior...
@@ahmicqui9396 as long as both Montezuma and Pachacuti get more civ variety I'm good
Just love how they designed the game with historical context in mind. Hope the current devs don't forget that trying to balance the civs.
Now they make dlc civs op to sell more
@@ihmpall those are not bad though. Like, I very much wanted and liked what they did with Indians, breaking it into eastern, southern and northern Indian factions. The Chinese should also be broken into factions but I wonder if they would do that for CCP's backlash. I would say that the price of the DLC could have been less but unless they add some stupid in game transactions for things like skins and boosts, I won't complain about the DLC that add new well thought out civs and campaigns, keep the historical flavour alive while not making the balance too lopsided.
Nerfing the longer lasting resources for the Mayans actually made their farming better :D
Love this series! Thank you!
You forgot to mention Plumed Archers.
Thank you for this!!!
With all of the nerfs to Aztecs over the years, their defining bonus in high level games has become their +5 hp/tech bonus on their monks with the all in 1 TC Monk/Eagle/Siege play being extremely dangerous to play against.
I also feel like the Arabia meta has shifted since the introduction of Hindustani's as they absolutely crush Mayans who have no real answer to the Ghulans whereas Aztecs actually match up pretty well being the one time Jaguars absolutely dominate.
Hindustanis crush pretty much everything nowadays, though, and they're bound to get nerfed. I would bet good money that they'll specifically lose the bonus against eagle warriors that Ghulans have and that makes them so hard to stop for Mayans.
Jags have always been plagued by the fact that they're a counter to a unit that doesn't really need countering. You rarely see the militia-line past feudal age, the spearman line doesn't really ever show up against Aztecs (for obvious reasons) and all the other unique or regional infantry units people actually make can outrun the Jaguar Warrior, Ghulans included. The archer line, where Aztecs are decent enough, is usually better at countering any infantry unit that doesn't carry a big round shield.
One thing I never hear discussed is how Aztecs were played before Eagle Warrior was introduced. Also without being able to train Eagle Scouts in Fuedal. Seems very challenging with so little mobility and no ability to replace a lost scout.
Their strats seems to be drush fc utilizing the carry capacity bonus to have faster farmers. Though I'm not sure if that strat was using deer since back then the map generation can be pretty unfair.
Loving these as always! Particularly the Mayans are one of my favorite civs so it's fascinating to hear the journey they've been on.
One question though: are you going to do the Britons and Chinese from the original game too? Because they're the only AoK civs I couldn't find in your Through the Ages playlist.
This makes me curious about which faction would be the strongest if all the nerfs applied to them over the years were reversed (but any buffs stay). xP I'm hitting the wikis.
It's a good idea
Also which civ was nerfed the most
See you in 2023 Spirit.
No love for the Xolotl Warrior?
Love this channel!
Viper contemplating life after that dirty game lol 😂
he felt really bad
Anyone else still playing the HD version only? I wish they could mirror the new DE so that you could play with the old patches.
I know sandy Petersen watches this Videos, so if you read this, please know that you are a hero.
As a huge fan of the Xolotl Warrior, I feel like suggesting everywhere that it should be revamped into a castle age Cataphract.
As the Jaguar Warrior it is inspired by is an anti-infantery unit, and the Mezoamerican civilizations are quite distinct from the Byzantines, so it will step on few toes.
You forgot about non-Elite Jaguar Warriors getting more HP. Makes them more usable in Castle Age.
Todavía me da tristeza que hayan quitado la obsidiana. Todo por culpa de The Viper y MBL
The Aztecs definitely did not have access to iron weapons and tools. They had knowledge of metallurgy for decorative purposes using gold, silver, and copper. However refining iron is a much more difficult process.
I think claiming they didn't use iron because of the climate is pretty off base as well. Plenty of other people's in jungle and tropical climates made use of metal tools and weapons around the same time.
Could be they didnt have an metallurgical knowledge to make useful iron. Ie doesnt rapidly rust ect.
Dont forget Redbull Wololo 4 where Hera and Liereyy showed the true power of meso civs
Their economy needs to be revised after the new lidar scans of the rainforest.
They should get back the stable especially with the new Xolotl warrior which should be available minimum castle age and gets no upgrades. While only aztecs get it in the campaign, should mayans and incas get the unit? Maybe make it become available only in the imperial age and give it cavalier stats. Make it benefit from infantry armor and attack upgrades in blacksmith but still take bonus damage from pikes and camels.
Can we see the Koreans or Japanese or both ? :)
Not surprised they didn't care about the architecture differences between Mesoamerican and Inca given how their Eastern-European architecture set makes heavy use of Brick Gothic which as a Hanseatic/German/Dutch Style and is primarily found were those cultures went.
The Xolotls need a buff for the Mesoamerican civs, judging by the comments.
Definitely.
I really don't see why fans back then were at all worried about historical accuracy. We have chinese infantry running around the game with late medieval full plate european armor. lol
I've been watching a lot of T90 content and I think I've seen Jags once. Just once. They keep improving them but they're such an underwhelming unit. I don't actually think that they're that niche, but simply that they counter something that doesn't really need countering if you're playing as Aztecs. If you're getting overwhelmed by infantry as Aztecs, you're clearly doing something very wrong, and Jags don't really have the speed or the raw power to bring you back from that.
Yet more evidence that all infantry should cost reduced population space. Cav has speed, archers have range, infantry should have mass.
Hopefully they buff these civs. Jaguar warrior in particular needs one. Eagle warriors need more los and less weaknesses
I played my first online match with the mayans against teutons. He created cav and i countered with eagle warriors and i won. Happy times