Car setups will never be the same with this model | Simracing | ACC
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
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After this video, you will know how to tackle oversteer and understeer in minutes.
My community: / simracingarnout
My Newsletter arnouthoekstra...
I find myself fixing my own car setups in acc nearly perfectly with this model. Part2
ruclips.net/video/XopGFE_TnWE/видео.html
Sorry but I have to comment negatively. But firstly, you put real effort into this video and that is appreciated. Secondly, you're not the only one who gets basic load transfer physics wrong! 🙂 This means lots of videos about this topic are spreading bad info. Driver61 for example as well! And people love the videos and think they've learned something when in fact they just got told 1+1=3. I can also be wrong, but this is very basic physics so I feel confident my bullet points below are "effectively" 99% accurate and true.
1) Changing ride heights, springs, bump rubbers, does NOT change the static ground loads (Driver61 thinks so). A 1000kg car with 50/50 front/rear weight will have 250kg on each corner, even if you add 25mm rear ride height.
2) Changing ride heights, springs, bump rubbers, does NOT (maybe 0.1%) change load transfer. If you do 0..100kmh in 3 seconds, the front and rear tire loads will be the same regardless of these setup parameters. Take a turn at 1.5G and the total load transfer is identical with any combination of these parameters.
3) Total load transfer is always the same at a certain G force, but when cornering, you can tweak how much of this transfer is taken by the front, and how much by the rear tires. The stiffer side of the car, stiffer springs, bump rubbers and/or anti roll bars, will take more of the load transfer than the softer side. The stiffer side almost always should have less grip than the softer side, because of tire load sensitivity.
4)Stiffer springs and bump rubbers reduce suspension travel for a given cornering, braking or acceleration G force. Reduced suspension travel means the ride heights of the car change less as you are driving around.
5) When speed goes x2, downforce goes x4 (!) so when talking about aero, high speeds are way more impacted than low speed
6) Downforce is often very sensitive to ride heights. Typically a lower car has more downforce. Typically, adding a little bit of rear ride height, or lowering the front, will move the aero balance forward.
7) A softer car, having ride heights moving more, will have its downforce levels and the balance of this downforce, change more during a lap. This isn't good or bad, it depends on many things, but is the reason in general, racing cars with downforce are stiff, especially at the front, as being 5mm too high will simply cost you high speed grip.
I made some videos that might be informative: /watch?v=QKPG8fCWT5A and /watch?v=I8x3ISXSnEg
To get a comment from a person of your caliber is an absolute honor! I will watch this video and I'm going to reshape my model. Thank you very much
With a physical disability, driving the vehicle, with my right side (arm and leg) - myself and my coach have to adapt the mechanical settings, for the McLaren 720S GT3 EVO, because when the settings are softer than a middle of the ground setup, it adds more time to apply throttle; meanwhile my right leg/knee area has to wait for the car to settle long enough out of the apex. This adds a gravitational pressure to my knee, as if the foot was hanging in the air to apply pressure to the acceleration pedal.So to mitigate this we try and find a system that lowers the hanging time of both what I do with my right side So my question is, does having something that suits the driver more or less important than having an ultra soft settings?
@@brandogt3racing that I find hard to give an answer to mate. The ultra-soft setting I do sometimes avoid when I don't feel like coping with it on like endurance races for instance
@@SimracingArnout so the next question I'd ask, is for a sim racer with limited mobility, how would you advise a setup for someone with limited movement, or put it another way, what changes could be made that doesn't lose seconds from those that non-dextrity concerns?
@NielsHeusinkveld regarding the first point, in our experience changing the ride height on one of the axles will affect the static front-rear weight distribution. On our TCR car lowering the rear ride height by around 1 cm led to a 0.1% change in the weight distribution.
The affect on the loads is extremely small, but it is possible to change the weight distibution with ride height, only the change has to be drastic.
This type of change is probably only applicable on low downforce cars where the ride heights won't affect the aero.
Everything else you said makes perfect sense and I think it's 100% correct.
How can I correct understeer and oversteer with this is what I don't understand and what do I do with the wheel rate and bumpstop rate thanks
Juan.. I'm going to make a video tuning a car and analyze and tweak using this model so you can start applying the information
@@SimracingArnout great thanks
honestley brother thats the best explination of real world racing physics explained perfectly that was awesome my friend
Thank you!
I started sim racing last month. Now I'm here. Things have escalated quickly. 😂
Haha that means your not on the surface anymore mate welcome in this setup rabbithole
I feel you 😂
Finally… after years of messing around I got it - thanks to this video!
Noice😎
@@SimracingArnout Also works well with other sims. Thanks to your help I have now been able to build some good LMU setups.
Glad this popped up on my feed cause I’m relatively new to ACC and have been struggling a bit with front grip on some of the front-engine cars and was curious about changing setup. This works great!
Awesome
To simplify, why not just use the phrase "force" rather than "weight"?
The model makes sense from a "physics" perspective, unfortunately my knowledge of the various tech on a car such as the bumpstops, dampers, rollbars etc. is where my head begins to spin.
There will be a version of this making it more clear, accurate and solution based. Force is a good idea thank you
I’m the 600th like, nice
Thanks, very useful.🙏👍
Thanks for this video. It really has helped me understand the effect of changes on setup. I have been using your baseline setup for all the cars I use and it has allowed me to set PBs on all the tracks I drive. Keep up the great work. I think that further info about the effects of toe, caster, camber along with bumpstop and wheel rates would be a big benefit to all who view your videos.
Thanks man means a lot!
I already understand all the physics and setup, but even then this explanation I found to be fantastic in its approach
Thank you, watch the second part as well mate it's going even deeper
You definitely deserve more subs man this is some 1 million sub quality advice
@@Trickshot_26 well first a 10k would be nice haha. Thanx for the comment!
You definitely deserve more subs man this is some 1 million sub quality advice
@@Trickshot_26 well first 10k mate then we will see, thanx for the comment
very helpfull thank you
hope we get mid engine model soon
noted mate
Is it possible to make a similar video for setting the Mercedes? As long i know it's a special car and a very sensitive car
ruclips.net/video/nWC7TpQFve4/видео.htmlsi=TKwSLwq5KxeVr8vs did you watch this?
My doubt is, the weight will always "try" to move, that's momentum of the cars chassis. So for example if I brake, the weight will move forwards, what changes with a hard vs soft setup on the front would be the amount of suspension travel but the weight will always be there, the pressure on the wheels, isn't it? I was under the impression we used bumpstop ranges to control car behaviour when the forces are applied on the 4 wheels of the car, when the suspension hits the limit, not necessarily to change the amount of force applied on the each wheel. I might be completely wrong, I learn new stuff about setups almost every week. Also my knowledge isn't from ACC only, but other sims as well, so things could be different.
Good point! This gets me thinking about improving the model and explanation even more. Thank you
I see what you mean about the weight being there still, but with travel in the suspension the center of gravity changes and the weight will be multiplied, if this was not the case then a high front end and lower rear would not cause understeering on corner entry. An exaggerated example of this would be when a motor cycle has lower front end than the rear and softer suspension, it easier to do a rolling front wheel stand (or what ever it’s called when front brake is applied and the rear tire come off the ground) it’s way more complicated than all this of course, like some times having the front higher on a car than the rear while having severely soft front suspension, soft dampening and slow rebound the front end can basically become a dynamic ride height adjustment by way of super high front brake bias. It’s a weird thing to drive but on the right track and car it’s fun.
@@coriddeval1815 love this comment
Dude this stuff just earned my sub and my views, such good stuff. Good work.
Thank you!
@@SimracingArnout Thank you!🙏
man i really enjoy these deep dives.
Nice!
man you deserve more subs no doubt! thanks for everything you do for community!
Thanx man, but with 6k im pretty happy tbh
@@SimracingArnout im happy to have you because its one thing to use meta setups and its another when you can get deeper information what and WHY is used and also get some knowledge from it!! Have a good day ;)
Nice 'mental model' which fits together all the component parts of the system.
Making it simple
It's an interesting approach, but it's more like a translation to people not used to the terminology and root causes of things.
The biggest question is how to extract that data and analyze it to create a decent setup without having to go into hours of testing and racing?
But inst the translation the key? Instead of hard code, we can now build a website super easily for example. Thanx for the comment
@SimracingArnout Not sure if I would say that it's key. It's the first step. To understand where the weight is and what to do with is it's key.
But that's me... ahahah
You did a really good job and that makes it much easier to see it for sure.
Haha alright haH
What about the pitch sensitivity from the bump stop range?
In ACC this isnt an issue or i don't suffer from this phenomenon
@SimracingArnout If the platform moves around so does the center of pressure. For example under braking pitching the car forward puts the splitter closer to the ground, while the diffuser lifts, changing not just weight but aero balance, which as you said is basically just more weight.
@rolandotillit2867 yess i found that you have massive fuel loads this can happen but usally it doesnt happen in acc or i cant hear it.. but maybe going extreme with ranges could make it pitch yes
This model was very easy to understand and i definitely feel abit more confident to try and adjust those settings myself. For me personally i would love to see more from the actual ingame setup manager and how different settings applies on track. Im very much a visual learner so that would help me. I understand that takes alot more effort, but just a sidenote :) Awesome video Arnout, thanks a bunch!
Thanks Ahman for you comment. I will create something like this in the future it was mentioned before and I also do belive we can understand it further like that
Finally someone aknowledging it's not only about over/understeer.
The thing i struggle most with in ACC is controlling the weight transfer. My driving style relies quite heavily on weight transfer, and even body roll, but no matter what i do the cars don't seem to behave.
More often than not, i end up with the same problem. Not being able to transfer enough weight to the front to get good and responsive turn-in.
Even if all of the information here isn't 100% accurate, there's definitely a couple takeaways i wouldn't had even thought about. Curious to see if i could get rid of my issues now
Let me know if you find ways to solve your issues. Thanks for the comment
Great video! Please go into more depth on arb, caster and differential values as that's what i struggle with most when setting up the car.
Im going to try that, btw, try the lowest value for most cars, only the 992 i run like 200
The preload im talking about
@@SimracingArnout Yeah thx i do that but i want to understand it more, it's changed so much from updates.
I will get into them at some point
Great video! Helps to have the mental model of how those work together. With your meta setup video, since there's difference in mid / front engine cars, would there be a different base meta setup for each?
Well the arnouts preset is indeed a starting baseline to work from. Each car will be different when we specific driver level and car. I like to make car spesific presets and copy them to all tracks, then i make minor adjustments to get it to my liking
I’ve been using your baseline set up for a few months now and it definitely helped improve lap times and driving enjoyment. But I’m now finding that I could do with making some further adjustments to improve further still, and this film and explanation have given me some great pointer. Thanks 👍🏻
Noice man, great this is helping you grow and evolve
hi Arnout !
I'm not sure if you ever talked about camber and how it can save your tires in racing. How to use it to balance heat and degradation along your race. Not here to give lesson to anyone, just something i just found out : when you check your tire temp after a few lap in practice or qualifying, IMO gives you 3 numbers. When first and last have less or equal 10 degrees delta, tire wear is greatly reduced and grip is optimal during at least a 45 min race. If you put max camber whitout adjusting, after 25 min or so, your tires begin to wear greatly and car begins to slide a lot, forcing you to adjust brake bias and so loosing time in corners. Hope it helps, and maybe you can make a video about it. Cheers !
This is definitely a very important consept do discover and to make some information about it, im going to have to test this out a lot to say something meaningful and true about it. Thanx for your comment. What kind of wear readings you get when the laptimes are hurting?
@@SimracingArnout When my camber is properly set, meaning my I M O temp are equal or less than 10°c delta, my tire wearing is the exact same on I M O.
When i put max camber whithout any further setting, i lost 0.1 on each tire part.
IE after a quali it gives : 2.9 2.8 2.7, with IMO temp 90 80 70. Something like that.
My trick is to reduce camber by 0.5 every 5 to 10 degree I to O delta, depending on the car camber capability.
In the end, on the same session i have : 2.8 2.8 28, with tire temps 90 88 86 or sometime 90 90 90.
I don't have a temp color difference anymore on the tire image in the HUD (the color of the outsides of tires changing along the race), and my grip stays the same from begining to end of race.
Last night on LFM on the nurburing, my grip was perfect from start to end.
I remember with max camber on the same track, the last 5-10 min were like Holiday on ice, forcing me to change my brake bias a lot to avoid crazy oversteering or understeering.
I hope my explanations make sense to you, for me it changed how i make my setup drastically.
Oh yeah this makes a lot of sense, but what kind of caster settings do you use then? And what kind of lap time do you compromise when running lower cambers? Haha sorry great explanation but now I have even more questions haha
@@SimracingArnout For start, i started simracing in january, so my times are not the best you can find, on the nurb with the 296 (And i almost never practiced this track), i manage a 1.58 on a regular basis. Not great, but not that bad. And no track limit anymore on any track, car goes always where i want it to go. On the N24 i go 8min20 with the mustang for ex.
For the caster setting, i don't put max anymore, car is more stable for sure with max settings, but i feel that it lowers your cornering capacity. Car is more stiff or "rigid" if that makes sense, so i set it usually between half and 2/3 of the setting.
Toe helps for cornering entry also, but wears tire and unnecessary overheat them. 0.15 on front and 0.0 on back tires is a meta for me for every car (race settings). For a quali you can go more (even max) but it is not sustainable for a long run in my opinion.
Cheers !
Down to 1.56 min on regular basis after a few LFM run (25 min race) with those settings : front tire camber at 3.0, back tires at 2.0, less than 10°c between I and O temps.
Racing with the 296, i'm only adjusting brake bias (starting at 63% then +1% after 15 min, and +1% after 20 min) during race to compensate the weight distribution changing because of less and less fuel, the grip and temps are optimal from start to finish. Fwiw, my best laps are usually after 50% of the race. Cheers !
Superior content ❤
Can you make a video explaining how to make set ups for beginners? 😂😭😭
You could watch some life streams of me called setup sundays.
Or start with this one
ruclips.net/video/wqpRe7A9rag/видео.htmlsi=mMHOXgwSxvYgcfXT
@@SimracingArnout OK. Thanks very much 😀
You are very nuch on point sir, this is very close to the philosophy I use to get me WR driving setups.
Still, really chaotically and imprecisely explained, because there are so many things happening at once, it is hard to explain in a series of slides. Exactly the thing which has deterred me from making the same video.
If you wish for this philosophy to become mainstream, I would think about redoing the explanation.
And this material would benefit greatly from addition of Dampers in the equation. The dampening is the biggest difference between good and pro setup.
you would not belive how many times I was adjusting this like dozens of times. for you to say to redo it lol. but I get it man. if feel there's a lot of engagement and there is yet a lot to adjust and to explore. thanx for the comment
yes, redo. Start from the beginning and try again. Try to actually understand what you are saying, as it is obvious you are not an engineer.
The only way to fix things you are doing first time, especially when it is done like this, completely by feel.
ruclips.net/video/XopGFE_TnWE/видео.html did you watch this?
Hi nice vídeo it's súper usful
What Cars hace front engine?
any car that has the engine mounted in front of the cockpit like the bmw and mercedes
@@liubodimaka7272 in acc wil be BMW, Aston, Mercedes and Luxus?
Yess and the mustang
And the Nissan and Bentley
I will definitely be tweaking my car using this info. Thank you.
Go for it mate