Martyr, Icon, Activist, Brilliant Writer & Orator, those are the words I’d use to speak of him. And let’s be clear that the hatred you speak of was imposed on him by a pretty specific group of people. I get where you’re going with this but I prefer reverence. But I appreciate your comment and bringing attention back to an issue that’s still ongoing.
@user-my1yp1ky2k Gallup polls taken throughout the early 60's consistently show public approval on King as being around a 50/50 split at the best of times. By 1966 63% of Americans said they viewed him unfavorably. Now I totallt understand preferring reverence and not wanting to focus on the negative. But that very negativity and hatred is what he was fighting against in the first place. To undersell that hatred is to undersell his struggle, which you could argue does more to "diminish" the man's legacy than honor it.
I hate how people always bring up MLK but never Malcom X, its almost like they're scared to show up real examples of radical thinkers that prompt change.
Amy Schumer saying she came from being dirt poor when she grew up in manhattan is honestly so classicist. She’s from the UPPER EAST SIDE. After her parents divorced she moved to Long Island with her mom (also an affluent area) like I’m not saying she never struggled, but as someone who did come from poverty i think she’s wildly out of touch.
I recently watched an interview with her and Bill Hader for Trainwreck and she literally admitted to growing up never worrying about money. Now she’s saying she was poor 😭 Amy, girl pick a story smh
It’s like Jeffree star when he said he was poor living in Orange County yet Orange County is one of the most affluent areas south of Los Angeles and even living in a trailer park in Orange County you still have money because it’s not cheap living down there.
Hey just so you know, the poem actually starts with “First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist” and then continues with the rest of what you said. It is commonly excluded from certain recitations of the poem.
@@user-tx5vr2lu6e It wasn't originally a poem, but the original iteration does specify communists. From an interview with the author: "There were no minutes or copy of what I said, and it may be that I formulated it differently. But the idea was anyhow: The Communists, we still let that happen calmly; and the trade unions, we also let that happen; and we even let the Social Democrats happen. All of that was not our affair."
Amy Schumer once admitted to sexually taking advantage of a drunk friend. Whats worse is she used that encounter as an example of her journey towards self love and empowerment. It’s odd to me it’s not brought up more.
YES!!! But also call it what it is. She raped a man. That's what forcing yourself on intoxicated person is. It's rape. She doesn't get a pass and mild language because she has a vagina and her victim has a penis.
@@canesugar911Is this a genuine question? Not asking sarcastically. The reason I ask is because it absolutely can be. She empowered herself at the expense of another person (in this instance). I suppose more correctly, you'd say she exploited another human being for her own interests. It's still empowerment in a way, just not of a kind sort.
Before the whole Zionist implosion, there was a running joke in queer media that Amy Schumer's comedy was edgy for people who had no understanding of edginess. (There's an example of this in the movie Fire Island.)
Amy's behavior can be described as: the caucasity. Also, y'all might hate me, but I actually like those liberal yard signs in the suburbs; especially after being scared to look into people's yard during the first Trump election, it reminded me that I wasn't surrounded by a mob of MAGA people ready to catapult me over the southern border. I'm not gonna go be friends at that house, but I'm gonna breath a little easier when walking by.
I feel this way about the yard signs too! I moved from one very Republican state to another very red Republican state, but the city I live in here is liberal, and my neighborhood is very vocally liberal. It’s super refreshing and makes me happy to see all their yard signs when I go on walks.
Actually the original poem began "First they came for the Communists..." but the US was so anti-Communist at that point in history that no American publisher would share it unless he skipped that part and started with the "First they came for the Socialists" instead.
She's been really insufferable and unhinged lately and I feel like people have been relatively silent about what she's said recently, so thank you for shining a spotlight on it.
I’m currently editing a video review of her movie Trainwreck and it’s insane to me that she calls herself a feminist with the amount of racist, homophobic and misogynistic “jokes” in that movie. update: I finally finished my video. (Shameless self promotion ) thank god I never have to watch that movie again lmao
Thank you! I always thought Amy Schumer was a really bad comic and it made me livid that she cried "misogyny" or "fatphobic" every time someone critized her work. It really doesn`t help the movements if somebody misuses these terms to deflect rightful criticism.
It does hurt the movement. I've seen really useful terminology hollowed out this way, and using leftist terms to defend horrible right wing stances is a massive turn off.
“It didn’t raise my heart rate I didn’t cry nothing.” She said over a cozy Brooklyn heights tavern. This is peak I’m taking a historical atrocity unfolding before my eyes and centering myself. “I didn’t cry.” Wow so brave.
Alex Jones literally claims every time he goes outside that people stop and shake his hand and tell him how right he is. So thats not the brag she thinks it is lol.
24:30 It's also wild how everyone's vocal memory of MLK doesn't include his assassination, which, arguably, underlines the flaws of the non-violent protests. One of which is that you can be as peaceful as you can but if the people in power think you're a nuisance it won't save you.
I think you misunderstand the point of political non-violence. It was never meant to be a shield or something that “saved you.” Part of its effectiveness (should be, this country is so pro cop these days it has lost some of its effectiveness) is the fact that the people in power still violently attack and kill non-violent protesters. It’s supposed to demonstrate their depravity. The idea that Dr. King being assassinated is an indictment of non-violence (particularly when many civil rights leaders that did not embrace non-violence have also been killed) is off-the mark. There are plenty of valid criticisms of King’s movement and the way he has been weaponized against any and all protest since, but his assassination is not one.
There's no way you don't know who Amy Schumer is. Pretending not to know who famous people are for "cool points" in a comments section is incredibly tedious and desperate.
Amy Schumer always seemed shallow and materialistic to me. She's not doing anything to challenge cultural norms, she's a representation of mainstream feminism being the status quo the last 30 years.
Self serving is a very good description of “white feminism”. It’s a swath of WW seeking equality with WM while not acknowledging that being second ONLY to WM in the social hierarchy is still a relatively sweet position. One that comes with many perks.
Perhaps a good topic for a follow-up video would be how ableist Amy Schumer is. Since her husband was diagnosed autistic, she’s spread an incalculable amount of misinformation regarding the autistic neurotype and the Autistic community and hired Michael Cera (who has never identified as autistic) to play her autistic husband in her “Life & Beth” TV series. Additionally, the way she speaks about her husband is like someone speaking about a pet. It’s truly revolting.
I think we as a society need to hold celebs to greater standards. Being a rich white woman does not make you a feminist. Hard, consistent, inclusive work advocating for women and other marginalised groups does.
I love when he said this isn't the plight of women this is just the plight of Amy Schumer because how many women have had their movie scene disrupted because they've said racist shit on the internet during a genocide? 🤔This just sounds like an extremely specific Amy Schumer problem 😂
I can't think of another public figure (aside from politicians) that angers me more than Amy Schumer. I've always been confused how she became famous. She went from stealing jokes and using racial and gender stereotypes for laughs, to imo infantilizing her husband after his autism diagnosis to even more blatant racism and Islamophobia. She has always managed to deflect any valid criticism of her actions by bringing it back to body shaming or misogyny. The self victimization never stops with her.
I know this isn't relevant to the topic at hand, but your content genuinely brings me so much joy, even when the topic is somber. Thank you for what you do.
All jokes aside, thank you white people for calling out your own. As a 30 year old Black girl, I’m TIRED. I can’t wait to see what kind of conversations will be had in 20 years. I’m impressed ✌🏾
im 21 minutes in and want to point out that cartoon was AI generated. none of the faces are distinct, the further you look into the crowd they start to melt together, the shadows are inconsistent and their fingers and arms are all disconnected and melt into each other. the only human intention in that image is the text on the signs. which someone had to type out for it to be legible. which implies either she wrote it or shared it from another platform in which this AI generated image was posted to. no one would draw something like this.
The Arab thing…girl went from Hamas to Gazans when she really meant all Palestinians…then to Arabs when she really (incorrectly) meant Muslims. This is not how anything at all works. The ignorance is bonkers.
I'm not all too familiar with American politics, so it might just be me. But I see some similarities with the uncritical praise Schumer gets for her "resilience" and "material success" and the praise people like Trump and Musk get from their supporters. Which if I'm getting right, is essentially what "white feminism" strives for? To simply say that women can be the boot as well?
Yeah, I think you are right. I think you see it commonly in people that experience one very specific form of oppression, but outside of that have a lot of privilege. Schumer is a good example. She has absolutely experienced misogyny. She's also white, cishet, able-bodied and affluent. Rather than admit she experiences a mixture of privilege/unprivilege, she focuses exclusively on the one side and fails to use those privileges to help others who don't. I've noticed it more recently with cis, gay, white men. Certainly not the majority or even large minority, but it's definitely out there. It can lead to a "burn the bridges down behind me" attitude. A specific subset of gay men have seen an apparent growth of acceptance and see others in the queer community as threatening that very shallow social success. Forgetting conveniently how much of that progress came from the sweat, tears, and actual blood of those "less normal" queer folk. Sorry for the wall of text. Your words just sparked thoughts. Thank you!
This was one of the most intelligent, timely, and nuanced discourses I've seen on YT in quite a while! Bravo! As a Black woman, I have always found Amy exactly what you described: sometimes very funny and a bit of a trailblazer in her early career, but also punching down from her privileged perch at folks like myself who have to negotiate various -isms *daily*! She is so ensconced in the establishment (much like Seinfeld) that she gets to be a bigot without much consequence, though I agree that the tides are beginning to turn. I so agree that she's the poster girl for white feminism and all the ills therein.
The thing about the personal being political is that it was (and still very much is) a tenant of BLACK feminist theory. It posits that our personal experiences with misogynoir can be connected to wider political systems and institutions of oppression. Black women connect and build community and personal relationships with each other by connecting over these personal experiences with racism and misogyny in order to find safe spaces among each other. White feminism's "understanding" of that is just the usual appropriation and commodification of ideas that aren't organic to it's practices.
I get annoyed when people start of their criticism saying she was never funny, because it's so beside the point. It's subjective and irrelevant. Like if she WAS genuinely funny, would that make her statements okay?
Hearing the bastardized 'First They Came' my first thought was that I didnt remember her doing anything beyond like black square posting and roasting Crowder, so knowing that I'm not alone in seeing this lack of actual support while she was being so patronizing, was a trip.
The Rosie the Riveter thing bothers me in a more insidious way than her racism blatantly infuriates me. I feel like she's co-opting Rosie the Riveter... I think because I associate that image with the working class. I kinda wonder if Amy even knows what a riveter is.
I won't pretend i never laughed at an Amy Schumer bit or joke. But I love Chappelle's show too. I don't like anyone's jokes enough to stand for any transphobic, homophobic, racist, Zionist nonsense.
gotta do the second comment, hope it helps in the algorythm Every Jew I've met so far has been kind to me, has invited me over to dinner, has been nothing but kind, and I still have jewish friends. Jewish hospitality is unrivaled and I generally love them. but that DOESN'T mean their government should be allowed to just "do a silly little genocide" 🤦♀🤦♀🤦♀🤦♀
To clarify, it isn't the Jewish government, nor is it the government of all or even the majority of Jews. It's a government that's weaponized Judaism and is committing genocide in our name, but many Jews don't consider it our government. There are plenty of zionist jews, to be sure, and it's a deeply troubling reality, but I think it's important to differentiate between the government that's trying to be a jewish ethnostate and the actual people of Judaism. We're such a diverse people, with such a diverse array of relationships to this geopolitical moment, and screw the state of Israel for stealing our name, iconography, and identity.
One thing I'm surprised about which wasn't mentioned about the comic she posted was how obviously AI generated it was. Idk if she made or got it from somewhere else, but it doesn't surprise me that she posted art that was just as shit as her message.
I really appreciate the calm and measured way in which you conduct your interviews/ conversations. In the few videos I've watched so far, you've tackled very serious topics from a point of inclusion, togetherness and light humour. I hope you continue to make such content.
one of the first thing i heard about her was proof of her stealing jokes. I think she was pretty insufferable before so i totally missed this entire thing of her being fully unhinged
I personally don't think she ever did anything good for the feminist movement, and she just always seemed out of touch. And no, it's not good to "hold a lot of nuance" for someone who's literally defending a genocide taking place and she won't admit Israel is doing it.
Thanks for being a non toxic guide into difficult subjects, you can talk about things that are very serious without making me feel anxious. Keep it up!
Hi. Thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and absolutely agreed with mostly everything that was said. I have only one issue to critique: please, when talking about Jews, do not automatically assume we are all white. There is a lot of nuance in this discourse to be had. Jews are not all of European descent, and even those who are, can “pass” as white when that is convenient, but once the discourse shifts, they will immediately be cast out as Others in the many societies in which they have lived, historically. Just a note, from one Jew to another, and to all of us wanting to engage in thoughtful conversation
16:57 it also blows my mind how you can TELL the "cartoon" in this post was ai-generated. using a picture so fabricated it wasn't even drawn by something that wasn't an algorithm is dystopian
i think a big part of people who do or don't face consequences about speaking out is a mix of if they're white or not and how long they have been in the entertainment industry for. like mark ruffalo and tilda swinton have both been very vocal but they're both white and have had more longevity in their careers whereas melissa berrera is a young woc so i think the industry may think it would be easier to just swipe her under the rug??? if that makes sense
Actors and entertainers lost career opportunities over their support of Palestine and Amy is being interviewed at brunch bec. her racism was met with some backlash online. The disconnect. 🙃
I’d love to see a guest like Kat Blaque on the podcast. She could contribute some meaningful knowledge to this issue by virtue of her having so many intersectional identities ❤
41:26 this is an excellent breakdown but I desperately needed to clarify that the Reba theme song is “works too hard” not “works two jobs.” I know. I was shocked when I realized.
Loved this episode! Just wanted to add, the first line of “They came” is supposed to be “first they came for the communists.” I know it doesn’t seem like a big change, but it’s an important one. Over time that first line has slowly been watered down as anti-communist rhetoric has grown. And it’s incredibly important to remember the OG line - communists were slaughtered by the Nazis because they were communists. They need to be properly remembered.
42:35 I love Matt mentioning Karpman's drama triangle, woo! It's such a helpful lens sometimes... as long as you realize that everyone can occupy any space and switches between roles moment to moment, but think they are occupying a different role than their behavior indicates. The empowerment triangle is a good companion to it, because it helps people grow out of getting stuck moving through the triangle over and over. It's also really helpful to understand what your preferred / most comfortable role is and how to keep from falling back into those habits.
Gosh, you are SUCH a good interviewer, Matt! Absolutely loved this, and having Maia as your guest! It's like your plucking all my fav's out of thin air and bringing them on your show. Excellent episode. I've never really enjoyed Amy Schumer's comedy for a lot of the reasons discussed in the later part of this interview, but it could also just be me being a grump who doesn't enjoy movies/stand up as much as I used to. The examples of what she's been saying recently literally made my jaw drop. I appreciate (both of your) level-headed analysis about the whole thing.
I was never impressed by her comedy specials but her show Inside Amy Schumer has some incredible writing and performing. It won a Peabody and I understand why. She’s dead wrong for her white woman antics-I just want to acknowledge that show because it seems to get buried in these conversations, and I think that’s dishonest.
17:37 just wanna add that this is also a really gross AI generated image, not a cartoon illustration. But Amy has never been against stealing other peoples content lmao
Early in the video, idk if you'll touch on it, BUT one very important thing to note about Amy Schumer in her early career and first few specials as well as the roast of Charlie Sheen, she was dating fellow comedian Anthony Jeselnik, and her sort of edge, pacing, and delivery were VERY similar if not identical to her boyfriend, to an extent where it is believed but not confirmed that Anthony was actually writing much of her material. This definitely fits the joke thief narrative as well. Amy struggles when she has to be original, and has always needed someone else in order to be funny. It's in part why the movie trainwreck and her sketch show are funny: she has a mediator who can improve on concepts. She has delivery. She lacks inspiration.
I feel like you should say that her comedy was subversive for white women. Black female comediennes have been subversive since forever. Also, her being on that Fox News show isn't accidental foreshadowing, I think it's just foreshadowing. lol
Tbh I clicked on this thumbnail because I saw Maia/Broey Deschanel. I am one of those people who does not think about Amy Schumer at all. But that could be because I'm not American.
This conversation was very insightful. Over the past few months, it has been disheartening to discover that many artists and performers I admired have politics that are either ambiguous or unacceptable.
Like I know that this isn't the biggest issue here but the fact that she used AI art for her anti-Palestine message really is the cherry on the shit sundae isn't it.
I wanted to like her, because she was on my radar for vaguely being body-positive and that’s why I followed her on Instagram. I never really paid attention to anything else she was doing until she started posting about Palestine. That’s when I unfollowed her. It was so wild to see how unhinged her posts were.
Err, Amy Schumer isn't actually fat, she isn't "Hollywood Skinny" , but she's a perfectly normal, healthy shape. And the thing is she knows it. She's having her cake and eating it too.healthy And it's so narcissistic! Amy knows she's conventionally fairly physically attractive, but pretends she thinks she isn't. That's dishonest. In fact by being a normal sized woman pretending to be obese, she is doing a disservice to genuinely over weight people.
Also! That post mocking the Palestinian protests looks AI made, idk I just find it really funny and ironic that even those bad taste boomers memes are now AI made lmao
Just found out your channel here yesterday and I'm obceced with it. So good to see this good exchange of ideias in a light and yet meaninful way....and also I just adore to know your guests (first one was Nathalie/ContraPoints, so SMART!)
You guys mentioned the drama triangle: a hallmark of it is actually that ppl ARE or can be all at once. Amy sees herself as the victim and the rescuer (of oppressed women), but she’s the prosecutor (zionist). Thats why the arrows go in both directions.
It's so wonderful when you find a channel that voices solidarity with so mant just causing. The intersectionality, feminism, lgbt+, anti colonialism. Great job, I'm subscribing ❤
i really haven't thought about her in forever, but this episode sparked a memory and made me search my ig messages. on may 11, 2018 i wrote a message to amy schumer who was speaking out in support of the fosta and sesta laws that were passed that year. i said "Ms. Schumer, I've admired you for a while, now. I understand I'm just words on a screen to you, but I'm respectfully asking for you to reconsider your stance on fosta and sesta. It is pushing sex work under ground, forcing vulnerable people who may have otherwise worked independently into the arms of those that seek to exploit us. Please understand that there's a difference between consensual sex work and exploitation...and what may have been consensual is now turning into exploitation." i think it's safe to assume that this is when i stopped being a fan of hers. and of course it was because she was literally pulling white feminist antics. *sigh* misogyny and white supremacy are so predictable.
This is the first video I’ve seen on this subject that actually went in-depth on what white feminism is defined as, as well as the potential conflation from people only seeing the phrase w/o context. Great work as always, this was a very informative video for me!
If there's anything that Amy Schumer and mainstream medias representation of white feminism has taught me it's that their definition of feminism is to be incredibly healthy regardless of how you got their or who you had to pull the ladder from and be willing to defend the state department
Thank you so much for covering this issue. I was horrified to see those posts (I had heard she was problematic before but this was so visceral). If I may make one suggestion to anyone reading: certainly, a lot of the anti-Arab racism and anti-Palestinian sentiment comes from Islamophobia...but there are also non-Muslim LGBTQIA+ Gazans, Christian Gazans, and atheist Gazans being killed as well. Christian Gazans especially have been trying to appeal to the Christian communities around the world for help. So as to not flatten the diversity of Gazans (and inadvertently further the stereotype that all Arabs are Muslims and all Muslims are Arabs) , please consider emphasizing the anti-Arab racism more. Or mention the twin Islamophobia+racism together...
I really hate how Martin Luther King, Jr. is treated like America's sweetheart, as if he wasn't the most hated man in the country before he died.
Thank you for saying this because it is so damn true and a truth that is often overlooked.
It's all part of the white supremacist ploy to erase radical opposition leaders
Martyr, Icon, Activist, Brilliant Writer & Orator, those are the words I’d use to speak of him. And let’s be clear that the hatred you speak of was imposed on him by a pretty specific group of people. I get where you’re going with this but I prefer reverence. But I appreciate your comment and bringing attention back to an issue that’s still ongoing.
@user-my1yp1ky2k Gallup polls taken throughout the early 60's consistently show public approval on King as being around a 50/50 split at the best of times. By 1966 63% of Americans said they viewed him unfavorably.
Now I totallt understand preferring reverence and not wanting to focus on the negative. But that very negativity and hatred is what he was fighting against in the first place. To undersell that hatred is to undersell his struggle, which you could argue does more to "diminish" the man's legacy than honor it.
I hate how people always bring up MLK but never Malcom X, its almost like they're scared to show up real examples of radical thinkers that prompt change.
Amy Schumer saying she came from being dirt poor when she grew up in manhattan is honestly so classicist. She’s from the UPPER EAST SIDE. After her parents divorced she moved to Long Island with her mom (also an affluent area) like I’m not saying she never struggled, but as someone who did come from poverty i think she’s wildly out of touch.
I recently watched an interview with her and Bill Hader for Trainwreck and she literally admitted to growing up never worrying about money. Now she’s saying she was poor 😭 Amy, girl pick a story smh
It’s like Jeffree star when he said he was poor living in Orange County yet Orange County is one of the most affluent areas south of Los Angeles and even living in a trailer park in Orange County you still have money because it’s not cheap living down there.
What’s your definition of poverty?
It's feasible she just lied about being poor to gain relatability points.
Iirc, she is related to Chuck Schumer (the Senator)
Hey just so you know, the poem actually starts with “First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist”
and then continues with the rest of what you said. It is commonly excluded from certain recitations of the poem.
I did not know that!!! 😮
I think it was *Socialists
excluded due to cold war politics and propaganda. sad
@@user-tx5vr2lu6e It wasn't originally a poem, but the original iteration does specify communists.
From an interview with the author: "There were no minutes or copy of what I said, and it may be that I formulated it differently. But the idea was anyhow: The Communists, we still let that happen calmly; and the trade unions, we also let that happen; and we even let the Social Democrats happen. All of that was not our affair."
Americans think communism and socialism is the same thing heh
Amy Schumer once admitted to sexually taking advantage of a drunk friend. Whats worse is she used that encounter as an example of her journey towards self love and empowerment. It’s odd to me it’s not brought up more.
YES!!! But also call it what it is. She raped a man. That's what forcing yourself on intoxicated person is. It's rape. She doesn't get a pass and mild language because she has a vagina and her victim has a penis.
I assume because it was framed as part of her journey towards self love and empowerment. She was disempowered, and therefore cannot be a perpetrator
@@lif6737 It can absolutely be both.
@@witriole_22 can it?
@@canesugar911Is this a genuine question? Not asking sarcastically.
The reason I ask is because it absolutely can be. She empowered herself at the expense of another person (in this instance). I suppose more correctly, you'd say she exploited another human being for her own interests. It's still empowerment in a way, just not of a kind sort.
Before the whole Zionist implosion, there was a running joke in queer media that Amy Schumer's comedy was edgy for people who had no understanding of edginess. (There's an example of this in the movie Fire Island.)
" I used to live in Israel"
oh and you were allowed to leave? Don't you see how that's different?
So bias
Amy's behavior can be described as: the caucasity. Also, y'all might hate me, but I actually like those liberal yard signs in the suburbs; especially after being scared to look into people's yard during the first Trump election, it reminded me that I wasn't surrounded by a mob of MAGA people ready to catapult me over the southern border. I'm not gonna go be friends at that house, but I'm gonna breath a little easier when walking by.
Thank you. I felt that way about those signs too, but I think it’s because I come from severely closed minded big0try in my upbringing.
I'm sorry you're surrounded by people with different values. That must be so hard for you /s
I feel this way about the yard signs too! I moved from one very Republican state to another very red Republican state, but the city I live in here is liberal, and my neighborhood is very vocally liberal. It’s super refreshing and makes me happy to see all their yard signs when I go on walks.
Same. Even though I live in area, where I never see MAGA signs. It's great to know there's people out there who have support basic human rights.
I agree that they're a good sign (ha), but the subtext here is making fun of people whose entire idea of resistance and protest is "I have a sign"
Actually the original poem began "First they came for the Communists..." but the US was so anti-Communist at that point in history that no American publisher would share it unless he skipped that part and started with the "First they came for the Socialists" instead.
oh my god
She's been really insufferable and unhinged lately and I feel like people have been relatively silent about what she's said recently, so thank you for shining a spotlight on it.
Let’s be real, she has been insufferable and unhinged as soon as she became a household name years ago.
I've only known her as being insufferable and unhinged since she first came into the public eye over a decade ago.
@@lmnlstes lol true
@@biteofdog It's quite a feat that she's somehow gotten worse 😂
I’m currently editing a video review of her movie Trainwreck and it’s insane to me that she calls herself a feminist with the amount of racist, homophobic and misogynistic “jokes” in that movie.
update: I finally finished my video. (Shameless self promotion )
thank god I never have to watch that movie again lmao
oh yeah… that movie has not aged well and honestly I’m surprised people weren’t more put off when it was released
I think she believes that experiencing sexism makes her a feminist. And experiencing sexism makes her immune to criticism
It's honestly wild that her movie was considered "started" by that movie when it sucked at the time and I already knew who she was and her gimmick
I used to love her show but now I think Jessie Klein the show runner was the genius behind her.
Thank you! I always thought Amy Schumer was a really bad comic and it made me livid that she cried "misogyny" or "fatphobic" every time someone critized her work. It really doesn`t help the movements if somebody misuses these terms to deflect rightful criticism.
Amy Schumer is objectively a bad comic.
@alabrrmrbmmr that's objectively an opinion
She's as despicable and pretentious as Lena Dunham.
@@pixelbomb97 Great, you got the joke. You win a prize.
It does hurt the movement. I've seen really useful terminology hollowed out this way, and using leftist terms to defend horrible right wing stances is a massive turn off.
“It didn’t raise my heart rate I didn’t cry nothing.” She said over a cozy Brooklyn heights tavern. This is peak I’m taking a historical atrocity unfolding before my eyes and centering myself. “I didn’t cry.” Wow so brave.
Alex Jones literally claims every time he goes outside that people stop and shake his hand and tell him how right he is. So thats not the brag she thinks it is lol.
24:30 It's also wild how everyone's vocal memory of MLK doesn't include his assassination, which, arguably, underlines the flaws of the non-violent protests. One of which is that you can be as peaceful as you can but if the people in power think you're a nuisance it won't save you.
I think you misunderstand the point of political non-violence. It was never meant to be a shield or something that “saved you.” Part of its effectiveness (should be, this country is so pro cop these days it has lost some of its effectiveness) is the fact that the people in power still violently attack and kill non-violent protesters. It’s supposed to demonstrate their depravity. The idea that Dr. King being assassinated is an indictment of non-violence (particularly when many civil rights leaders that did not embrace non-violence have also been killed) is off-the mark. There are plenty of valid criticisms of King’s movement and the way he has been weaponized against any and all protest since, but his assassination is not one.
"Amy Schumer is someone everyone has opinions about."
*Me clicking on this video to find out who Amy Schumer is* lol
Same, lol
There's no way you don't know who Amy Schumer is. Pretending not to know who famous people are for "cool points" in a comments section is incredibly tedious and desperate.
@@Paul-mk6zz Chill. The world is a big place. Maybe everyone in the US knows her, but that isn't the case here in Europe.
@@Paul-mk6zz Well, now I know who she is because I watched this video about her, but I don't want comedians. Sorry that bothers you so much? Lol
@@Paul-mk6zz nobody care about Amy Schumer is non-English Europe for example, 99,99% don't know her
The first line in the Niemöller poem is "First they came for the communists".
Amy Schumer always seemed shallow and materialistic to me. She's not doing anything to challenge cultural norms, she's a representation of mainstream feminism being the status quo the last 30 years.
She's literally defended the Palestinian genocide. Why is Matt inviting people who 'hold a lot of nuance' for someone who defends genocide?
@SikanderG did I black out or something? when did Broey even imply that she supports Israel's genocide?
Bringing up Amy Schumer’s and Taylor Swift’s self serving feminism was very satisfying because I couldn’t I couldn’t put into words before
Self serving is a very good description of “white feminism”. It’s a swath of WW seeking equality with WM while not acknowledging that being second ONLY to WM in the social hierarchy is still a relatively sweet position. One that comes with many perks.
Please make a separate video of Taylor Swift’s white feminism! Very important
This would be so interesting to listen to
yeah white feminism is a plug that is harmful to trve intersectional radical feminism and that needs to be always called out
Fair.
From community, maybe less popular for XYWhite reasons there is this one: "This Video Isn't Just About Taylor Swift. It's About You". Hope it helps.
Seconded!
Perhaps a good topic for a follow-up video would be how ableist Amy Schumer is. Since her husband was diagnosed autistic, she’s spread an incalculable amount of misinformation regarding the autistic neurotype and the Autistic community and hired Michael Cera (who has never identified as autistic) to play her autistic husband in her “Life & Beth” TV series. Additionally, the way she speaks about her husband is like someone speaking about a pet. It’s truly revolting.
😮😮😮
I think we as a society need to hold celebs to greater standards. Being a rich white woman does not make you a feminist. Hard, consistent, inclusive work advocating for women and other marginalised groups does.
Not to greater standards, but accountability. Fixed it for you.
no one who claims themselves to be self-made, is ever self-made.
I love when he said this isn't the plight of women this is just the plight of Amy Schumer because how many women have had their movie scene disrupted because they've said racist shit on the internet during a genocide? 🤔This just sounds like an extremely specific Amy Schumer problem 😂
P😅z z n❤
I can't think of another public figure (aside from politicians) that angers me more than Amy Schumer. I've always been confused how she became famous. She went from stealing jokes and using racial and gender stereotypes for laughs, to imo infantilizing her husband after his autism diagnosis to even more blatant racism and Islamophobia. She has always managed to deflect any valid criticism of her actions by bringing it back to body shaming or misogyny. The self victimization never stops with her.
She ripped off numerous comedians. There are compilation on RUclips of her doing Patrice O'Neil set word for word
Bill Maher.
I know this isn't relevant to the topic at hand, but your content genuinely brings me so much joy, even when the topic is somber. Thank you for what you do.
Aw
All jokes aside, thank you white people for calling out your own. As a 30 year old Black girl, I’m TIRED. I can’t wait to see what kind of conversations will be had in 20 years. I’m impressed ✌🏾
im 21 minutes in and want to point out that cartoon was AI generated. none of the faces are distinct, the further you look into the crowd they start to melt together, the shadows are inconsistent and their fingers and arms are all disconnected and melt into each other. the only human intention in that image is the text on the signs. which someone had to type out for it to be legible. which implies either she wrote it or shared it from another platform in which this AI generated image was posted to. no one would draw something like this.
The cartoon is from a website/blog called Elder of Ziyon.
The Arab thing…girl went from Hamas to Gazans when she really meant all Palestinians…then to Arabs when she really (incorrectly) meant Muslims. This is not how anything at all works. The ignorance is bonkers.
I'm not all too familiar with American politics, so it might just be me. But I see some similarities with the uncritical praise Schumer gets for her "resilience" and "material success" and the praise people like Trump and Musk get from their supporters. Which if I'm getting right, is essentially what "white feminism" strives for? To simply say that women can be the boot as well?
Yeah, I think you are right. I think you see it commonly in people that experience one very specific form of oppression, but outside of that have a lot of privilege.
Schumer is a good example. She has absolutely experienced misogyny. She's also white, cishet, able-bodied and affluent. Rather than admit she experiences a mixture of privilege/unprivilege, she focuses exclusively on the one side and fails to use those privileges to help others who don't.
I've noticed it more recently with cis, gay, white men. Certainly not the majority or even large minority, but it's definitely out there. It can lead to a "burn the bridges down behind me" attitude. A specific subset of gay men have seen an apparent growth of acceptance and see others in the queer community as threatening that very shallow social success. Forgetting conveniently how much of that progress came from the sweat, tears, and actual blood of those "less normal" queer folk.
Sorry for the wall of text. Your words just sparked thoughts. Thank you!
@@CorwinFound I wish everyone would read and understand the "wall of text" you wrote! Thank you for describing this complicated problem so succinctly.
This was one of the most intelligent, timely, and nuanced discourses I've seen on YT in quite a while! Bravo! As a Black woman, I have always found Amy exactly what you described: sometimes very funny and a bit of a trailblazer in her early career, but also punching down from her privileged perch at folks like myself who have to negotiate various -isms *daily*! She is so ensconced in the establishment (much like Seinfeld) that she gets to be a bigot without much consequence, though I agree that the tides are beginning to turn. I so agree that she's the poster girl for white feminism and all the ills therein.
The thing about the personal being political is that it was (and still very much is) a tenant of BLACK feminist theory. It posits that our personal experiences with misogynoir can be connected to wider political systems and institutions of oppression. Black women connect and build community and personal relationships with each other by connecting over these personal experiences with racism and misogyny in order to find safe spaces among each other. White feminism's "understanding" of that is just the usual appropriation and commodification of ideas that aren't organic to it's practices.
The phrase actually comes from an essay by Carol Hanisch from 1969 called "The Personal is Political".
The phrase was originated by a white woman
Thank you for discussing this! Also, f**k you to people who chose to feature her on Variety!
P.S. YAY BROEY DESCHANEL WOOOOOOOOO
I get annoyed when people start of their criticism saying she was never funny, because it's so beside the point. It's subjective and irrelevant. Like if she WAS genuinely funny, would that make her statements okay?
"Vitamin supplement homophobia scandal" is a wild phrase lmfao
Being a black person both Lena and Amy have always been racist… it’s just about how well they can pivot from that to another thing.
They’re both sexual abusers too. Double whammy. Wow. 😖
43:15 I never got into Amy Schumer's stuff but the drama triangle and her persecution complex suspiciously reminds me of JKR
Hearing the bastardized 'First They Came' my first thought was that I didnt remember her doing anything beyond like black square posting and roasting Crowder, so knowing that I'm not alone in seeing this lack of actual support while she was being so patronizing, was a trip.
BROEY DESCHANEL! The crossover I didn't know I needed.
Plus surprise Yung Chomsky from Trueanon mention.
The Rosie the Riveter thing bothers me in a more insidious way than her racism blatantly infuriates me. I feel like she's co-opting Rosie the Riveter... I think because I associate that image with the working class. I kinda wonder if Amy even knows what a riveter is.
Shes a single mom working two jobs remember? She probably thinks she's entitled to rosie the riveter
@@lepetitangesf That is a pretty dishonesgt way to describe a racist and islamophobic celebrity.
I won't pretend i never laughed at an Amy Schumer bit or joke. But I love Chappelle's show too. I don't like anyone's jokes enough to stand for any transphobic, homophobic, racist, Zionist nonsense.
As a jewish women, people like Amy shumer makes me soooo angry, like girl have you learn nothing from your own family history??
gotta do the second comment, hope it helps in the algorythm
Every Jew I've met so far has been kind to me, has invited me over to dinner, has been nothing but kind, and I still have jewish friends.
Jewish hospitality is unrivaled and I generally love them.
but that DOESN'T mean their government should be allowed to just "do a silly little genocide" 🤦♀🤦♀🤦♀🤦♀
To clarify, it isn't the Jewish government, nor is it the government of all or even the majority of Jews. It's a government that's weaponized Judaism and is committing genocide in our name, but many Jews don't consider it our government. There are plenty of zionist jews, to be sure, and it's a deeply troubling reality, but I think it's important to differentiate between the government that's trying to be a jewish ethnostate and the actual people of Judaism. We're such a diverse people, with such a diverse array of relationships to this geopolitical moment, and screw the state of Israel for stealing our name, iconography, and identity.
I must dispute that! Iranian hospitality is unrivaled ^_^
Iranians are super hospitable.
Her ‘apology’ isn’t an apology at all, it’s passive aggressive and manages to miss being relevant completely.
maia was such a perfect guest to discuss this topic. her perspective and takes on culture and politics are always refreshing.
I GOT HALFWAY THROUGH THIS VIDEO THINKING YOU GUYS WERE TALKING ABOUT AMY POEHLER, OH LORDY.
I was so fucking confused.
🤣
Leslie Knope would *never* 🤣
Your interviews with Natalie Wynn brought me to your channel.
Love your videos.
One thing I'm surprised about which wasn't mentioned about the comic she posted was how obviously AI generated it was. Idk if she made or got it from somewhere else, but it doesn't surprise me that she posted art that was just as shit as her message.
Cis Male, checking in to say that I luuuuuv your Podcast…
Isn't the host a cis guy?
I really appreciate the calm and measured way in which you conduct your interviews/ conversations. In the few videos I've watched so far, you've tackled very serious topics from a point of inclusion, togetherness and light humour. I hope you continue to make such content.
I remember where I was during the ‘Bye, Sister’ scandal. I had no idea who she was, but I was enthralled. 😂
Not the slander of my unfunny zio yt feminism icon☝️😔
*joke stealer
@@slushmonsterz same they r literally my babies
@@jayjayjay21 omg i accidentally deleted my original comment 😭 but its so nice to see btl out in the wild! i dont see ppl mention it usually
I don’t think ‘lack of empathy’ is the problem here, it’s not required to be a good person and, although a useful skill, it’s a poor moral code.
Amy reached levels of posting previously only seen on JK Rowling’s Twitter feed
one of the first thing i heard about her was proof of her stealing jokes. I think she was pretty insufferable before so i totally missed this entire thing of her being fully unhinged
49:58 My niece has the EXACT book youre referencing omfg it mentions like "margaret took milk from children, and some people didnt like that"
I personally don't think she ever did anything good for the feminist movement, and she just always seemed out of touch. And no, it's not good to "hold a lot of nuance" for someone who's literally defending a genocide taking place and she won't admit Israel is doing it.
Thanks for being a non toxic guide into difficult subjects, you can talk about things that are very serious without making me feel anxious. Keep it up!
Hi. Thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and absolutely agreed with mostly everything that was said. I have only one issue to critique: please, when talking about Jews, do not automatically assume we are all white. There is a lot of nuance in this discourse to be had. Jews are not all of European descent, and even those who are, can “pass” as white when that is convenient, but once the discourse shifts, they will immediately be cast out as Others in the many societies in which they have lived, historically. Just a note, from one Jew to another, and to all of us wanting to engage in thoughtful conversation
16:57 it also blows my mind how you can TELL the "cartoon" in this post was ai-generated. using a picture so fabricated it wasn't even drawn by something that wasn't an algorithm is dystopian
Variety is an entertainment industry magazine. I wouldn't expect them to be anything other than shills for celebrity PR.
i think a big part of people who do or don't face consequences about speaking out is a mix of if they're white or not and how long they have been in the entertainment industry for. like mark ruffalo and tilda swinton have both been very vocal but they're both white and have had more longevity in their careers whereas melissa berrera is a young woc so i think the industry may think it would be easier to just swipe her under the rug??? if that makes sense
Actors and entertainers lost career opportunities over their support of Palestine and Amy is being interviewed at brunch bec. her racism was met with some backlash online. The disconnect.
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I’d love to see a guest like Kat Blaque on the podcast. She could contribute some meaningful knowledge to this issue by virtue of her having so many intersectional identities ❤
I will never forget watching Trainwreck in theaters with my parents in my late teens. She should be required to pay for my therapy
41:26 this is an excellent breakdown but I desperately needed to clarify that the Reba theme song is “works too hard” not “works two jobs.” I know. I was shocked when I realized.
Omg I NEED a Volume 2 with ContraPoints dissecting the intersectionality of all this!!!!
Broey Deschanel & Mattxiv??? Never thought I'd see the day🥹
Loved this episode!
Just wanted to add, the first line of “They came” is supposed to be “first they came for the communists.”
I know it doesn’t seem like a big change, but it’s an important one. Over time that first line has slowly been watered down as anti-communist rhetoric has grown. And it’s incredibly important to remember the OG line - communists were slaughtered by the Nazis because they were communists. They need to be properly remembered.
42:35 I love Matt mentioning Karpman's drama triangle, woo! It's such a helpful lens sometimes... as long as you realize that everyone can occupy any space and switches between roles moment to moment, but think they are occupying a different role than their behavior indicates.
The empowerment triangle is a good companion to it, because it helps people grow out of getting stuck moving through the triangle over and over. It's also really helpful to understand what your preferred / most comfortable role is and how to keep from falling back into those habits.
51:40 this whole conversation reminds me of the "question for the culture" post especially the fitness influencer
59:40 she's basically the Drake of comedy 😂😂😂
Alexander Avila made en awesome video about the 'apolitical' figure that Taylor Swift intentionally creates.
Gosh, you are SUCH a good interviewer, Matt! Absolutely loved this, and having Maia as your guest! It's like your plucking all my fav's out of thin air and bringing them on your show. Excellent episode. I've never really enjoyed Amy Schumer's comedy for a lot of the reasons discussed in the later part of this interview, but it could also just be me being a grump who doesn't enjoy movies/stand up as much as I used to. The examples of what she's been saying recently literally made my jaw drop. I appreciate (both of your) level-headed analysis about the whole thing.
I was never impressed by her comedy specials but her show Inside Amy Schumer has some incredible writing and performing. It won a Peabody and I understand why.
She’s dead wrong for her white woman antics-I just want to acknowledge that show because it seems to get buried in these conversations, and I think that’s dishonest.
My favorite mindful of why he was invited to the section, eloquent, honest, thoughtful and cute twink is back 🥹
Damn.. Jamie Lee Curtis too? i liked her..
17:37 just wanna add that this is also a really gross AI generated image, not a cartoon illustration. But Amy has never been against stealing other peoples content lmao
Yung Chomsky is producer of the True Anon podcast. It's one of my favorites. Very fun to hear him come up here! Excellent show, as always!
WAIT. Shes related to Chuck? I genuinely thought it was just one of those weird coincidences
It's NEVER a coincidence.
Early in the video, idk if you'll touch on it, BUT one very important thing to note about Amy Schumer in her early career and first few specials as well as the roast of Charlie Sheen, she was dating fellow comedian Anthony Jeselnik, and her sort of edge, pacing, and delivery were VERY similar if not identical to her boyfriend, to an extent where it is believed but not confirmed that Anthony was actually writing much of her material. This definitely fits the joke thief narrative as well. Amy struggles when she has to be original, and has always needed someone else in order to be funny. It's in part why the movie trainwreck and her sketch show are funny: she has a mediator who can improve on concepts. She has delivery. She lacks inspiration.
it reminds me about all the new james baldwin biopic being made by billy porter...
I feel like you should say that her comedy was subversive for white women. Black female comediennes have been subversive since forever. Also, her being on that Fox News show isn't accidental foreshadowing, I think it's just foreshadowing. lol
Tbh I clicked on this thumbnail because I saw Maia/Broey Deschanel. I am one of those people who does not think about Amy Schumer at all. But that could be because I'm not American.
This conversation was very insightful. Over the past few months, it has been disheartening to discover that many artists and performers I admired have politics that are either ambiguous or unacceptable.
Like I know that this isn't the biggest issue here but the fact that she used AI art for her anti-Palestine message really is the cherry on the shit sundae isn't it.
I wanted to like her, because she was on my radar for vaguely being body-positive and that’s why I followed her on Instagram. I never really paid attention to anything else she was doing until she started posting about Palestine. That’s when I unfollowed her. It was so wild to see how unhinged her posts were.
Err, Amy Schumer isn't actually fat, she isn't "Hollywood Skinny" , but she's a perfectly normal, healthy shape.
And the thing is she knows it. She's having her cake and eating it too.healthy
And it's so narcissistic! Amy knows she's conventionally fairly physically attractive, but pretends she thinks she isn't. That's dishonest.
In fact by being a normal sized woman pretending to be obese, she is doing a disservice to genuinely over weight people.
Also! That post mocking the Palestinian protests looks AI made, idk I just find it really funny and ironic that even those bad taste boomers memes are now AI made lmao
Just found out your channel here yesterday and I'm obceced with it. So good to see this good exchange of ideias in a light and yet meaninful way....and also I just adore to know your guests (first one was Nathalie/ContraPoints, so SMART!)
You guys mentioned the drama triangle: a hallmark of it is actually that ppl ARE or can be all at once. Amy sees herself as the victim and the rescuer (of oppressed women), but she’s the prosecutor (zionist). Thats why the arrows go in both directions.
The roast of Charlie Sheen is also how I was exposed to Amy Schumer
It's so wonderful when you find a channel that voices solidarity with so mant just causing. The intersectionality, feminism, lgbt+, anti colonialism. Great job, I'm subscribing ❤
"i never stole a joke".... just.... insane
The dirt poor upper east side
i really haven't thought about her in forever, but this episode sparked a memory and made me search my ig messages. on may 11, 2018 i wrote a message to amy schumer who was speaking out in support of the fosta and sesta laws that were passed that year.
i said "Ms. Schumer, I've admired you for a while, now. I understand I'm just words on a screen to you, but I'm respectfully asking for you to reconsider your stance on fosta and sesta. It is pushing sex work under ground, forcing vulnerable people who may have otherwise worked independently into the arms of those that seek to exploit us. Please understand that there's a difference between consensual sex work and exploitation...and what may have been consensual is now turning into exploitation."
i think it's safe to assume that this is when i stopped being a fan of hers. and of course it was because she was literally pulling white feminist antics. *sigh* misogyny and white supremacy are so predictable.
This is the first video I’ve seen on this subject that actually went in-depth on what white feminism is defined as, as well as the potential conflation from people only seeing the phrase w/o context. Great work as always, this was a very informative video for me!
Few things have instantly sent me the way Maia's INSTANT rendition of the Reba theme song did.
If there's anything that Amy Schumer and mainstream medias representation of white feminism has taught me it's that their definition of feminism is to be incredibly healthy regardless of how you got their or who you had to pull the ladder from and be willing to defend the state department
I have to say I really appreciate the vibes of your interviews, you've got yourself a new sub!❤
Thank you so much for covering this issue. I was horrified to see those posts (I had heard she was problematic before but this was so visceral). If I may make one suggestion to anyone reading: certainly, a lot of the anti-Arab racism and anti-Palestinian sentiment comes from Islamophobia...but there are also non-Muslim LGBTQIA+ Gazans, Christian Gazans, and atheist Gazans being killed as well. Christian Gazans especially have been trying to appeal to the Christian communities around the world for help. So as to not flatten the diversity of Gazans (and inadvertently further the stereotype that all Arabs are Muslims and all Muslims are Arabs) , please consider emphasizing the anti-Arab racism more. Or mention the twin Islamophobia+racism together...
Fantastic conversation thank you both!