4 years later and this video is still helping someone (me). Thank you for setting up this amazing library on totally arbitraty, random and highly specific topics within the hobby!
There is a lot of really good figure painters with channels on here but there is only one Vince. You have a way of talking and explaining what it is you're doing and why that makes sense to people. I learn something every time I watch one of your vids, and think in ways that didn't even register before.I suggest you to people when they ask a how would I paint this as you have so many videos on just about any way you can paint a figure. So just want to say thank you for taking the time to make these vids and being the crafter you are.
Thank you, that is deeply appreciated. My goal is always to empower people to make their own hobby decisions. There are many roads to complete and I don't think for a minute that my way is any better than 10 other ways. So my hope is that by explaining the underlying thoughts and the "why" - people can then make their own choices and get the outcome they are going for. Thanks for watching and for the generous comments. They are probably too nice and undeserved, but greatly appreciated none the less. :)
Saturation really is the missing link from most painters' (and people in general) understanding of colour. We're simply not being tought about it, we tend to think in bright vs dark , effectively merging two distinct properties into one and that' really puts a block on what we can work with. I'm very excited that there's a video out there that touches on the subject, thanks Vince. I'd love to see the opposite too, how to bring the intensity up, now that really is hobby cheating in the most literal sense.
It's a great idea for a video and would likely involve pigment and Inktensity Inks, two of my favorite things to play with ;) - I totally agree on saturation, it's a missing tool in most painter's toolbox and I wanted to hopefully bring it to people's attention because I think it's a super useful tool.
I'd love to see you do a video about that. If you do end up doing it, besides pigment and inks, you can also consider briefly touching on how gloss surfaces affect our perception of saturation
Wow, having never studied any color theory, this was very helpful. I actually had to google a color wheel, and combining opposite pairs is something I had never thought about before. As you kind of suggested at the beginning, I'm one of those who always use black, grey and white. I will try this next time instead. Good stuff!
Glad to help, desaturated colors are a great way to control shadows and recessed tones. They are also great for when you need to use a single color on a miniature but have no way to balance that color. Thanks for watching and commenting.
So to desaturate, say, blue, I'd pick the complementary color off the color wheel. And since I'm a Chad galaxy-brain color master I grab my CMY wheel, grab for the yellow paint, and mix myself up a nice.... green? Orange off the RYB wheel would do the trick I assume, does this disprove CMY color theory? Or would your example have worked equally well if you'd used cyan instead of green?
So yes, in general, Orange would be the color you would use here. Keep in mind, it's never perfect when this gets in reality, as we are dealing with pigments, not perfect digital colors where it becomes much easier.
I am introduced to your channel by Uncle Atom video. I love watching your video while painting. It have podcast like quality to it that I would listen to it and stop painting now and then to see what you are explaining. A good way to rest the eyes from painting small details.
Wow, I never thought about that. I'm working on a Stormvermin for a painting competition with a red tabard. I saw in one of Sorastro's(another youtube painter) video that he added green to "darken" red paint and I used that technique, but never actually thought about it. Thanks for distilling it into some useful information for me.
Hey Vince, what do you think about revisiting this topic BUT going with desaturating with gray and the uses for that? I saw an interesting video on this by Proko: "the secret to painting the righr color". It uses color relativity to give the illusion of different colors
Thank you for this very informative and inspiring video. Tutorials such as this one are helping me take a step forward in my painting journey. Just one question, what brush are you using in this video? Cheers and keep up the good work
Winsor & Newton series 7, not sure of the size, but you can get them relatively cheaply from Amazon ($10-15), which is certainly high for a single brush, but with proper care, they can last years.
I've just found the video. Thanks for the tip! Wouldn't have thought about looking at color wheel for this stuff. BTW, what is this model? Looks fun. I love your channel. Thank you for all the work you put into this!
Glad to help as always. The model is Little Red Riding Hood from Kabuki miniatures, they have a great line of fairy tale minis that is all great fun (the Cinderella being one of my favorites).
I don't understand the argument for using contrasting colors over greys/blacks. You said that greys/blacks "dull" the original color, playing with the way it impacts the light, but that sounds exactly like a description of desaturation to me (i.e. exactly what you'd want). What do you actually mean by "dull" the color?
The color becomes muted in way that looks more flat. I will openly admit I don't know the science, but effectively, you can weaken or darken the color without making it look more flat. The addition of black and grey has a flattening effect. This is usually why 2-d artists utilize complimentary colors or darker shades of hues rather than mix in black, or mix their own version of near black from other contrasting colors. Now, all of that is just another interesting effect, I wouldn't call it required in any way. You can shade with black and I often do, but it's fun, especially on display pieces or pieces you are trying to push the volume on to utilize the contrasting colors for a more rich effect.
@Vince Thank you for the clarification. :) Perhaps it has something to do with having a mixture containing both light and dark pigments: The white pigments wash out the surface they are painted on by being super-receptive to light (even weak light), meanwhile the black pigment universally darkens everything even when being directly illuminated. Because the pigments each undercut the degree of power light has upon a surface in this way, they create flatness, especially in combination. I don't actually know. When you explained the flatness, I had to wonder why, and that's what I came up with.
Hi Vince, as I was listening to this video, I decided to try it on the cloth of the minature I was painting. Unfortunately it didn't seem to work to well with purple (base) and purple/yellow (shadow). The purple turned to a lilac rather than dulling. Is this because the brightness of the colours or are there exceptions to the general rule in the video. Thanks for the help
I have a couple of thoughts. First, deep purple or lilac is desaturated purple to some degree, so you did effect the right type of change. Now, it might not have ended up in the right place for a few reasons. Purple is tough to work with because purple is a strange color having both warm and cold variants (i.e. Purple/Red - Magenta and purple/blue). If your original purple was already leaning one of these two ways as opposed to being true purple, it could have effected the final color. We also have the variation of the type of yellow used, bright intense white/yellow will have a different final effect than say a deep ochre. My advice would be to play around with a few different purple/yellows and try mixing small amounts on your pallete separate from your main paint (i.e. put both on the palette, grab a dab of one, place it somewhere else, clean the brush, grab a dab of the other, and start working them together carefully to see exactly what color you end up with. If you end up mixing 50/50 and get a brown warm brown tone, you will know you have found two exact complimentary colors. I hope that all helps, thanks for watching.
Cool, thanks for the help. At the time of watching the video I thought I'd try it with whatever I was working on at the time anyway, which happened to be purple. I'll continue experimenting.
Awesome- I had no idea about using contrasting colours! Thanks! At some point, I'd love to see how you'd do the shimmering blues and purple of a Raven wing in a convincing manner? I can't get it to my satisfaction! Lol
Fantastic, this is my favorite trick yet. How do I not remember this from school? I must have skipped class that day... Funny that I'm highlighting red right now too!
Vince your videos are the most useful and comprehensive resource out there. Make a Patreon already and take our money! 🙏
Thank you, no Patreon right now but who knows what the future will ever hold. :)
Vince Venturella Awesome. Well if there’s ever a $25-50 tier that includes 1 on 1 lessons, I’m on it!
This feels like a cheat code to painting! Great explanation and demonstration, cheers! 🍻
4 years later and this video is still helping someone (me). Thank you for setting up this amazing library on totally arbitraty, random and highly specific topics within the hobby!
Glad it helped!
There is a lot of really good figure painters with channels on here but there is only one Vince. You have a way of talking and explaining what it is you're doing and why that makes sense to people. I learn something every time I watch one of your vids, and think in ways that didn't even register before.I suggest you to people when they ask a how would I paint this as you have so many videos on just about any way you can paint a figure. So just want to say thank you for taking the time to make these vids and being the crafter you are.
Thank you, that is deeply appreciated. My goal is always to empower people to make their own hobby decisions. There are many roads to complete and I don't think for a minute that my way is any better than 10 other ways. So my hope is that by explaining the underlying thoughts and the "why" - people can then make their own choices and get the outcome they are going for.
Thanks for watching and for the generous comments. They are probably too nice and undeserved, but greatly appreciated none the less. :)
Saturation really is the missing link from most painters' (and people in general) understanding of colour. We're simply not being tought about it, we tend to think in bright vs dark , effectively merging two distinct properties into one and that' really puts a block on what we can work with. I'm very excited that there's a video out there that touches on the subject, thanks Vince. I'd love to see the opposite too, how to bring the intensity up, now that really is hobby cheating in the most literal sense.
It's a great idea for a video and would likely involve pigment and Inktensity Inks, two of my favorite things to play with ;) - I totally agree on saturation, it's a missing tool in most painter's toolbox and I wanted to hopefully bring it to people's attention because I think it's a super useful tool.
I'd love to see you do a video about that. If you do end up doing it, besides pigment and inks, you can also consider briefly touching on how gloss surfaces affect our perception of saturation
Wow, having never studied any color theory, this was very helpful. I actually had to google a color wheel, and combining opposite pairs is something I had never thought about before. As you kind of suggested at the beginning, I'm one of those who always use black, grey and white. I will try this next time instead. Good stuff!
Glad to help, desaturated colors are a great way to control shadows and recessed tones. They are also great for when you need to use a single color on a miniature but have no way to balance that color. Thanks for watching and commenting.
So to desaturate, say, blue, I'd pick the complementary color off the color wheel. And since I'm a Chad galaxy-brain color master I grab my CMY wheel, grab for the yellow paint, and mix myself up a nice.... green?
Orange off the RYB wheel would do the trick I assume, does this disprove CMY color theory? Or would your example have worked equally well if you'd used cyan instead of green?
So yes, in general, Orange would be the color you would use here. Keep in mind, it's never perfect when this gets in reality, as we are dealing with pigments, not perfect digital colors where it becomes much easier.
Excellent. As I watch your tutorials, I can actually FEEL my brain developing another crease
Thanks
Thank you, happy to help as always. :)
This was actually a great explanation of saturated and desaturated colors, which is something I've wondered about for some time now.
Glad to help as always!
I am introduced to your channel by Uncle Atom video. I love watching your video while painting. It have podcast like quality to it that I would listen to it and stop painting now and then to see what you are explaining. A good way to rest the eyes from painting small details.
Awesome, Uncle Atom is a good guy and I was happy to participate. Glad you enjoy the videos and thank you for watching and commenting.
Wow, I never thought about that. I'm working on a Stormvermin for a painting competition with a red tabard. I saw in one of Sorastro's(another youtube painter) video that he added green to "darken" red paint and I used that technique, but never actually thought about it. Thanks for distilling it into some useful information for me.
Glad to help, yes, its a very useful tool across colors, and all you need is the basic color wheel and some experimentation ;)
Splendid! Most excellent advice! You have my gratitude for teaching me these details!
Thank you very much, happy to help!
Vince I appreciate all of Your works. You are the best
Thank you, I really appreciate that and I am always happy to assist.
Seems like an exciting way to paint Blood Angels - and even Dark Angels! The are both largley one color schemes.
Yep, ironically as they are red and green, you could both with the same two paints as your main paint.
I was thinking about that too. Would be a great test for saturation. I have enough tactical Marines as it is, great for testing.
Thanks very much for that tip, I hope to one day move away from using washed to shadow my minis, and this was very helpful indeed :)
Glad to help!
Fantastic! Thanks for the tip...my shadows will look better from now on...
Glad to help, it really can make some more organic and natural shadows.
Where is that mini from?
It's OOP now, but it was Little Red Riding Hood from Kabuki miniatures.
Hey Vince, what do you think about revisiting this topic BUT going with desaturating with gray and the uses for that? I saw an interesting video on this by Proko: "the secret to painting the righr color". It uses color relativity to give the illusion of different colors
It would be a great topic to revisit.
Great video Vince
Thank you sir, appreciated as always.
Thank you for this very informative and inspiring video. Tutorials such as this one are helping me take a step forward in my painting journey. Just one question, what brush are you using in this video? Cheers and keep up the good work
Winsor & Newton series 7, not sure of the size, but you can get them relatively cheaply from Amazon ($10-15), which is certainly high for a single brush, but with proper care, they can last years.
I've just found the video. Thanks for the tip! Wouldn't have thought about looking at color wheel for this stuff.
BTW, what is this model? Looks fun.
I love your channel. Thank you for all the work you put into this!
Glad to help as always. The model is Little Red Riding Hood from Kabuki miniatures, they have a great line of fairy tale minis that is all great fun (the Cinderella being one of my favorites).
I don't understand the argument for using contrasting colors over greys/blacks. You said that greys/blacks "dull" the original color, playing with the way it impacts the light, but that sounds exactly like a description of desaturation to me (i.e. exactly what you'd want). What do you actually mean by "dull" the color?
The color becomes muted in way that looks more flat. I will openly admit I don't know the science, but effectively, you can weaken or darken the color without making it look more flat. The addition of black and grey has a flattening effect. This is usually why 2-d artists utilize complimentary colors or darker shades of hues rather than mix in black, or mix their own version of near black from other contrasting colors.
Now, all of that is just another interesting effect, I wouldn't call it required in any way. You can shade with black and I often do, but it's fun, especially on display pieces or pieces you are trying to push the volume on to utilize the contrasting colors for a more rich effect.
@Vince
Thank you for the clarification. :)
Perhaps it has something to do with having a mixture containing both light and dark pigments: The white pigments wash out the surface they are painted on by being super-receptive to light (even weak light), meanwhile the black pigment universally darkens everything even when being directly illuminated. Because the pigments each undercut the degree of power light has upon a surface in this way, they create flatness, especially in combination.
I don't actually know. When you explained the flatness, I had to wonder why, and that's what I came up with.
Hi Vince, as I was listening to this video, I decided to try it on the cloth of the minature I was painting. Unfortunately it didn't seem to work to well with purple (base) and purple/yellow (shadow). The purple turned to a lilac rather than dulling. Is this because the brightness of the colours or are there exceptions to the general rule in the video.
Thanks for the help
I have a couple of thoughts. First, deep purple or lilac is desaturated purple to some degree, so you did effect the right type of change. Now, it might not have ended up in the right place for a few reasons. Purple is tough to work with because purple is a strange color having both warm and cold variants (i.e. Purple/Red - Magenta and purple/blue). If your original purple was already leaning one of these two ways as opposed to being true purple, it could have effected the final color.
We also have the variation of the type of yellow used, bright intense white/yellow will have a different final effect than say a deep ochre. My advice would be to play around with a few different purple/yellows and try mixing small amounts on your pallete separate from your main paint (i.e. put both on the palette, grab a dab of one, place it somewhere else, clean the brush, grab a dab of the other, and start working them together carefully to see exactly what color you end up with. If you end up mixing 50/50 and get a brown warm brown tone, you will know you have found two exact complimentary colors.
I hope that all helps, thanks for watching.
Cool, thanks for the help. At the time of watching the video I thought I'd try it with whatever I was working on at the time anyway, which happened to be purple. I'll continue experimenting.
Awesome- I had no idea about using contrasting colours! Thanks! At some point, I'd love to see how you'd do the shimmering blues and purple of a Raven wing in a convincing manner? I can't get it to my satisfaction! Lol
I will add this to the list, I think it will come up soon with Alarielle perhaps.
What if I need to cast these shadows into outer darkness with weeping & gnashing of teeth?
You are going to need some Lovecrat paints, which are tough to find due to their alien angles and colors, they don't show up to the normal human eye.
Very helpful, thanks.
Glad to be of help, as always!
finally! I think I understand it now
Awesome, glad to be of help :)
Fantastic, this is my favorite trick yet. How do I not remember this from school? I must have skipped class that day...
Funny that I'm highlighting red right now too!
I always like it when my videos align with people's current projects :)