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Trick Flow CNC 190 Small block Mopar heads. How good are they?
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
- A quick look at my new Trick Flow small block Mopar heads and the plan for them.
Sorry Joe, I meant to say ‘68 Dart. My bad.
Great episode, I recommend running a single plane intake with these heads.
Thanks buddy. You’re right, a single plane would be optimal. But I kinda want to see what just heads would do.
@@Duster_Garage right on, then a back to back test .
Looking forward to that vid, take care and happy wrenching!!
@@keithclark3079 will do
I'm all with your plan of putting the heads on and seeing what they do. Best A/B with just head swap n no other changes to help others see exactly what just the heads do. Can never have to much data. Also the swap itself can help younger guys learn whats involved so good for views. The trick flows do flow better under .500 lift over most moderatly ported cast heads plus have a much better chamber so you should see some gains. The choke will be the intake since it doesn't flow near as much as the heads. Testing a single plane after is a good idea. They all still need porting to try to keep up. Haven't seen any standard intakes even ported flow over 280 on the heads. I got a Victor 340 going 348cfm on its own but it doesn't do that once bolted to the head. The new trick flow intakes only goes about 240cfm bolted to the truck flow head so can use some work . It does look like the chambers could use some deshrouding around the tight areas of the valves. The chamber should be at least bore size in that area. Always good gains to be had. They tend to keep the chambers smaller to also work on 318's bore size. Which just reduces the potential for the other 97% of people using them. For me testing is the funnest part. Having been a professional engine builder (mainly mopar) n still R n D as much as possible plus stay humble and always try to learn. One of the cars i've been able to build is a 67 plymouth valiant with a 408 and well ported RPM heads which are very comparable to the trick flows. In Alberta our DA is usually 3400-4500(first n last race of the year we have had 1200DA) pump gas, all steel,full interior,drive to the track i run low 10's. I'm sure 9's is possible with a bit more radical combination. Of course then it snowballs again at that point. Most important key is the details. I tend to detail every part so it's optimized and everything works together. Our smaller port heads like cam duration n lots of converter even with a 408. Luckily todays converters are built well so aren't even noticeable on the street. In the past we have built 360cid engines to run in the 10's with ported stock heads so you should be able to meet your goal. I've found some of the You tubers that aren't running 10's yet with the trick flows are mainly just missing details. Your car runs good for what it is so i'm sure you'll do well.
Man, thank you for all the information! You know your shit. I might have some questions for you in the future. Low 10s would be mind blowing for me. Thank you again. Have a great weekend.
I picked up a set as well. Got mine bare. Now I wish I had got them assembled. I think the Trick Flows are the best Mopar head on the market for the money. Edelbrocks, Speedmasters need work to equal the performance. My 414 with ported iron heads made 460hp with 9.3 compression, 850 Holley, Air Gap intake, Comp 242/250, .558/572 106/106 solid flat tappet cam KB hyperuetectic pistons. I have no doubt I can pick up 100hp with the right combo. My plan is to run the trick flows, 11.1-11.5 compression, .253/263, 600/.600, 108 roller cam, keep the Air gap or Victor 340 intake, 1 7/8 headers if I can find a set that won't cost an arm & a leg. I have a Duster too except mine is a stick. Good luck brother!
Have victor or super fully flow balanced , and port matched , Mine are way off with both those intakes. Best of luck with your project
That’s badass! That sounds like my planned build. A 11.25 to 1 comp, 408. 260ish degree roller cam. Indy magnum single plan intake(drilled for LA intake bolt pattern). 1 7/8 headers. Sounds like you got a solid plan.
I've got TF190s on my 318 with a howards roller... have only had it in the driveway so far but the heads are beautiful
P.S.i went with the mancini harland sharp rockers and bolt kit.. buy a shim kit if you go with them, took a but to space them all nice with good clearances
Sweet, thanks for the tip. I did get the pack of MP rocker shims. I guess they will be getting put to use.
I purchased a set of TF190s back in 2021. Had them in in the box ready to replace my partially ported Edelbrock 6077 (purchased in '00) heads. Was to swap onto my existing 360 w/231/237 .525 w/Ed AirGap and TTIs, but realized there would not be much gain. Outside of a minimal intake cc gain and the better exhaust, the TFs and Ed heads are very similar. I returned the TF190s to purchase TF240s for a future lowdeck 400 stroker deal.
Thought was, and still is, the lowdeck stroker will cost roughly the same as building 408 stoker, but has potential to make considerably more power than small block. Lowdeck still fits an A-body well. Plus, to get most out of TF190s, you will need to go single plane intake and 1-7/8 headers, all things you would also need to purchase for big block.
I hear ya. It is going to cost the same as a big block but probably make less power. But I’m just a small block guy. And know these heads on my current 360 combo isn’t optimal. The stroker I’m planning should take full advantage of these heads though.
I’d say put them on the yellow duster just to see the difference cause you know what you have now. I like the Miller highlife. I have one in the garage also.👍
Hell yeah, no garage is complete without it. 😂
I’m looking forward to seeing how these heads perform on your 360! They’re pretty sick looking. 😍
Me too! They are some sexy cylinder heads. 😂
I Have these heads on my 408 and running a Dual plain manifold over 500hp 545Tq you’ll love them!
@@RandyRobison-jf6ss Sweet! Sounds like a real torque machine. I can wait.
Nice addition to the 360. I have a 340 with the iron J heads. My cam is only .500 lift. I am looking forward to seeing how this works out. My car is a 70 Challenger and only used on the street. But with the spark knock I am getting. I have considered a set of trick flow heads because of the aluminum heads would allow me to keep these high compression pistons. And I wanted the best aluminum head that was still affordable. So I will be checking in. Good luck and thanks for a informative video.
Agreed. Since aluminum dissipates heat twice as quickly as iron and the much more efficient chamber. They should help with detonation.
Do it man!
I'd love to see a back to back comparison.
P.s you need longer pushrods too 👍🏻
Good point, I kinda forgot about that. Thank you.
Looks awesome dude and after Carlisle we're gonna do another drag day at mason get those heads on and get that converter in
Hell yeah!
I personally would like to see you add them to the 360... Most people like to see what type of gains you'll get just with the cylinder head change...
1 I really don't think you're going to go backwards in power by just swapping cylinder heads
Even if you left the same camshaft in there
2 yes it is true you will see larger Gaines larger camshaft stroker kit cimbo ... But the average guy doesn't have the budget for that type of thing... He may want to know what he can do just with a set of cylinder heads....
3 a lot of people are probably going to chime in and say you need more camshaft .. larger stroke portrd intake.. to make any type of difference....
I would say obviously all those things are going to make a difference... The question is how much ? Certainly I would never argue for optimum performance that a stroker kit ported intake and large cam wouldn't bring the best hp numbers.... Because it would But you got them sitting there I say put them on the engine and run it ... Maybe add a ported intake and cam later... Just to see the time slept differences between each step forward... That would definitely make for some good content and videos.
All really good points. It would be cool to see how each change improves performance one at a time. Thanks for your input.
I think your new heads are going to be real good. The challenge will be picking a cam that's going to suit your needs with these heads. Regardless stick with a LSA of 106 - 108 as most cam companies have way too wide LSAs. The other thing is a roller is way better then a flat tappet for the simple reason that they don't wipe out. You don't have to worry if the springs are too stiff or the oil is right or the rocker ratio is too high. I know they're expensive but wiping out one flat tappet cam just put you way ahead. All the best.
You’re on the same wavelength as me. I love a tight LSA cam, no wider than 108. And when I build this 408, a roller cam is definitely going in. Thanks for your insight brother.
Ya,put tell on the Yellow Car!..Then you'll know!...lol..If you have time
Roll Bar in the White One!..Duster Garage is Busy!
@@stephencawker1565 That’s the plan brother. They are at the machine shop now getting cleaned and checked out. We’re going to find out this fall what those heads can do.
Pushrod tubes being oval shaped is pretty cool helps pushirds clear without rubbing with big lift cam. Hunter is still tinkering should have more in his combo. Will see. Heading out to bristol world footbrake challenege Wednesday!!! wish us luck ❤ tune in live on motor mania ...o yea scamp might not be orange anymore lmao see brother
Good luck man. Is Motor Mania on RUclips? I’ll have to check that out.
@@Duster_Garage yea it's on youtube
Trick flow and AFR are used by a lotta drag racers. I would like to see u install them on the yellow car.👍👍
They both have great reputations. Too bad AFR doesn’t make Mopar heads.
I’m definitely putting them on the 360, I really want to see if they make a big difference.
You know, if you’ve got a nice set of head studs….👀….I’d highly recommend looking in to running around 8:1 compression, forged crank and a 62mm turbo.
With as hard as that thing leaves, you don’t even need a 2-step. Let that big dog eat under natural aspiration, and as the boost builds around the 500’ mark….LOOK OUT MAMA!! That bad ass monster will lift HARD and put some distance between you and whoever you line up against.
If you’re expecting to be in the low 11’s, that setup would be good enough to get you into the high 9’s, I’d think.
I don’t know if you follow the street racing scene (NOT the takeovers where the do donuts), but you should. I’m telling you, the things they’re doing today would blow your mind. I watched these kids (early 20’s), absolutely DOG WALK a big tire/big block ‘69 Camaro, en route to taking everyone’s money. What did they do it in? A Subaru Impreza, and not a WRX. They put forged internals, Dodge Hellcat fuel system, some other bolt ons and this huge 68mm turbo, with a 2-step system to launch under boost. My god. 😮This is a mid-9 second AWD street car. 😳
I know the stuff they are doing with turbos these days is crazy. I definitely thought about what it would be like to boost a small block in one of my Dusters. I would have to change a lot with my setup though. Full cage, fuel system, suspension, better brakes and a different torque converter. It would be badass though.
Mate if you’re going to put the trick flows on, put a nice single plane on it, the dual plane will be a cork.
Also don’t earth your battery through your cylinder head, please attach it to the block.
Good tip for the battery ground cable. I know the dual plane wouldn’t be right. But I’ll probably run it like that then maybe change to a single plane to see the gain.
@@Duster_Garage I'm with you on testing the difference between dual and single. Remember many intakes cast the ports really small so stock to stock may not always give the best results.
I think they will work great,I would have had those exact heads on mine if i could afford it,one of these days ill get a set. I think i would put them on the 360 and run em,from all the dyno tests ive seen on them they will pick up power even in the lower lifts area's over even ported iron heads.Your already losing 50 lbs,so thats already gonna pick up a few hundredths there with just the weight loss,Just my opinion tho,but if it was me i would like to see how they would run on the 360,that motor runs great already!
I appreciate your input. The more I think about it the more excited I’m getting. I’m definitely putting them on the 360. I think it will be a really neat comparison.
@Duster_Garage Good deal, Look forward to see how it does with em! I need to get to the track to test this 8 in. Converter but it's been so damn hot and miserable I haven't gone yet,Car doesn't run worth a crap in this heat and crappy air anyway lol
@@RT211Racing I’m looking forward to seeing the difference with the 8in converter. But I hear ya about the heat, it’s been crazy hot up here.
Neat! Trick Flows would be my choice hands down, especially since I recently heard Steve Dulcich say that the Edelbrock LA heads weren’t that much better than 2.02 X’s or J’s? I was surprised because I was under the impression since they came out that they were a good bit better than stock 🤷♂️. Anyway, it would be really cool to see a straight A B test with the heads being the only change on your car.
ED Heads are replacement heads for stock mopar. only weight is the advantage
That’s the one reason I picked the Trick Flows. I knew the Eddys would require a good bit of work to get the same flow. Plus I would have to change the valve springs. I am getting excited to see how they will change the car’s performance.
@@smilsmff that's not exactly true. We got one of the first sets. The are cast after a ported stock head. Then can be improved even more since they are thicker.
That's not exactly true. We had one of the first sets in Canada. Being a engine builder and flowing lots of heads have tested many. Still have the original article of how the Edelbrock SBM hwads were made. They were cast after a ported Factory head. Stock head barely goes 200-215@.500 Edelbrocks go 240's @.550 ported will go over 286 @.550 which is best for cams under .600 lift. Best i have seen them go is 330@.750 Just stock to stock on a mild engine a guy can see 40hp plus gains. My ported RPM heads made 126hp more over stock J heads on a modified engine. With aluminum heads it's important to also increase the compression for a fair comparison. Making sure the intake can keep up to the heads is also important.
@@dannyfasttcars8612 more great info brother!
Been looking at heads for my 340 stroker build, might try these out for my 74 Duster. Got it back on the road this week with a 318/904. If you need nitrous, let me know. Have a crappy load here from my King of the Street racing days with the hemi
I have a complete 904 that has all new internals, case has a problem but I had just gone thru it if you get in a bind for parts
Thank you! I really appreciate your offer. I think I’m good with the transmission parts. It took 2 trannys to make one good one though. Good luck with your stroker build brother.
@@Duster_Garage Thank You.
Would make good content to swap the ported J’s for these. I would be interested in seeing the gain on a car like yours which represents what a lot of guys are running ( around 400hp) .. how well ported are your J’s ??
You’re right. I think it will be quite interesting. As far as my J heads. I think I did a nice job on them. Never had them flowed but I would guess 230 cfm@ .500 lift.
I think 10s are doable. I had Trick Flow 270s on a 512 on the Dyno made an Insane 723hp with a .650 flat tappet cam. I’m a Trick Flow Fan Boy.
Nice! My buddy has the 270s on his Duster drag car. He really likes his. Hopefully the 190s make me a Trick Flow fan boy too.
W2!
I like the w2 stuff but the additional cost is too much for me. $2000 T&D rockers. $1500 w2 headers. And $1000 Indy intake manifold.
@@Duster_Garage your looking in the wrong places. Put down the parts catalogs and hit the swap meets.
@@approachingtarget.4503 you’re right, you can score some nice deals if you know where to look.
Let me know if you want to sell the J heads, I would be interested in buying them.
Will do. But I plan on putting them back on. I have another 360 block for the stroker and the trick flow heads to go on.
Only one way to find out.
@@user-oz3bm3sv3i Yes sir. Won’t be long now. Just waiting on custom length pushrods.
RACER BROWN IN Rosedale Maryland can cut you a custom camshaft , Ask for Jimi Dow ...And if you use existing camshaft get the 1.6 rocker arms form Mancini Racing and the selll them from Harland Sharp without the gold color on them same exact rockers without the name...Amywho yes the ARP HEAD studs are not the same for TFS Heads I got 2 sets of TFS from Summer it...So i see the Track heat (I WILL use Edelbrocks Performer RPM with an Open spacer)and the ports are perfect match intake to the cylinder heads TFS so I ordered in March 12th They said 2 months I never bothered them once in two months at TFS, I called and the guy answered the phone said we need to finish the intakes up due to sand castings etc. 2 more weeks, and I call back in 2 weeks and oh no who said that? we get the intakes in the end of month we will have them then. And I called back no not in so I see that Jegs is mentioned that they had a Track heat in the meantime another Generation show and they got it and put on car. Jegs does not advertise TFS for Mopar . I cancelled my order. TFS heads are found to flow much better on 4.03 Bore and i think more yet on 4.07 or 4.08 bore and already they been tested to make over 625 on a dyno 416 compression qas 11.5:1
With all the back orders, getting parts these days is a pain. I think I’m going to use the Indy single plane intake for magnum heads. I’ll drill it to the LA bolt pattern.
@@Duster_Garage I bought same cam roller as Joey B. Dart runs in his 408 LA. Then finally during the C-19 Wait i got a racer brown Custom cam . I dont think i will use Comp Cam now. let me know if your really interested you would not have to change valvesprings out on the TFS
@@Duster_Garage Oh yeah Indy single plane is hands down the best choice for a 275-330ish CFM head. Does still need a bit of clean up n matching of course.
@@dannyfasttcars8612 my buddy has the Indy intake on top of his ported eddy magnum headed 408 Duster. He has gone 10.55 with a 9.5 converter and 3.91 gears. He just got an 8”. He’s hoping for low 10s.
@@Duster_Garage I got the HEAT now ordered again at TRE pmnce
I got a 904 case you come get it you can have it toledo Ohio
Thanks brother, but think I got enough good parts out of 2 to make one good trans.
You live near steelworldwide?
I’m not sure where that’s at. I’m in south central Pa.
@@Duster_Garage The RUclips guy. He’s in PA
@@CashMopar oh, I’ll have to look into that.