Paula Vennells blamed ‘temptation’ of money in tills not IT system, Post Office inquiry hears
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- Опубликовано: 9 апр 2024
- Former Post Office chief executive Paula Vennells suggested “temptation” for subpostmasters to borrow money from tills was a problem, not the faulty Horizon IT system, the inquiry into the scandal has heard.
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It was Lord Arbuthnot's turn to give evidence, expressing his frustration at successive governments' attempts to play down the issue whenever he raised it.
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She should serve 1 year for every year served by an individual postmaster.
900 years? Not long enough.
What about the suicides?...........hmmm, now there's a thought
Take all their money too as they committed the crimes why should the taxpayer pick up the massive bill for their crimes.
Yet they prosecuted imprisoned bankrupted
Corporate manslaughter charges.
How naive you lot sre vennels will get no jail time.she will havr expensive laeyet who eill allow het to walk free.in fact she wont need them het rich friends in high places will make sure she is ok
Sir ed davies is probsbly giving het advice at 2 grsnd a day
@@michaelmcginley7930 "should" was used not "will"
Ingles por favor
She shouldn't have judged the postmasters by her own corrupt standards!!
You nailed it EXACTLY!!! 👍🏻
Religious arrogance.
Definitely protect the brand at all costs no matter what, an absolute disgrace how she lead it.
Quite agree totally but as i have consistently said over & over again the blind British legal justice system is working fine & as intended.., its sole responsibility & perpose is to the persevering & wellbeing of "Toffs" who developed, designed & built this system just for "Toffs" so yes people this system is working just fine as its absolutely one rule for the elite rich & a totally different set of rules for us the hard working tax payer's who works hard for a system that doesn't care for us but here we all are & for what 🧐., 14 years of a currupt Tory government whose sole purpose was/is to steal, fleace & rob from us every & anything bmfrom us all before the meek & timmid wakes up & see this rule & barbaric Tory system for what it is..!!!
what other standards would a psychopath have to judge by?
If anyone was tempted by money it was Paula Vennells, hanging on to her undeserved bonuses no matter the damage she did to other people's lives.
Venality, you attributes her failures to others!
@@benwilson6145what are you on about? Her failures are serious and only she’s solely in charge of herself therefore she’s accountable.
@LWQ15881 its a play on her name, the act of blaming others when it's your own poo that stinks.
@@LWQ15881 She was in charge of the Post Office. It was her decisions that put people in jail, made them bankrupt, caused despair so bad that they committed suicide. . This so called Christian in guilty!
@@DJWESG1 Wow a Tory! They are always the biggest liars! She was in charge of the Post Office. It was her decisions that put people in jail, made them bankrupt, caused despair so bad that they committed suicide. . This so called Christian in guilty!
The notion of succumbing to temptation of the "money in tills" is an extraordinary example of projection of Paula Vennells own values on to others.
Very well said Martin and you took the words from my mouth .
She is an ordained priest, what a Christian.
@@michaelbrian219 Yes, a woman of the cloth, I hope she's touching cloth now!
Despicable woman! She belongs in jail now!
not just her all the people in the know as well total scum!
Along with a lot of others, Mr Potatohead Davey a prime example.
That woman better see jail time. This is infuriating.
she never will ...what she will see is another bonus and possibly a knighthood.
One law for the establishment another for us.
She needs every penny she received from the PO taken from her, every bonus, stripped of every honour, reduced to poverty and jailed. She had the opportunity when she took the CEO post, to uncover the already ongoing scandal but decided to continue the subterfuge for personal gain.
And financial compensation for her stress and suffering during this enquiry.
Jail. Yes I agree
Lord Arbuthnot has been a valiant fighter for the Post Masters he’s a hero and a great example of some of the good work MP’s can do. Thank you to him and prosecute Vennells
Or maybe he should have realised something wasn't right and asked more questions. Why couldn't he or other ministers, Lords or whoever not demand to see all data and records.
It must have been obvious that something wasn't right.
@@Ghengiskhansmum It's easy to point the finger at the one person who is continuing to stand up and be counted. Did you not hear how some of the actions took place under, and with the knowledge of, David Cameron's government? And those before them? Why are they not being asked?
Many in the comments section are focusing and targeting Paula Vennells. Deservedly so, but let's make no mistake, she is not the only one and she was aided and abetted by her fellow board members and whilst I firmly agree that Vennells should be carted off to a cell immediately, the rest of the corrupt senior management should also not be allowed to make her the scapegoat and they too should be carted off to prison.
Agreed, and let's not forget the Fujitsu people who had evidently hidden and/or played down the impact of their disastrous Horizon system for over a decade before Vennells was in charge of the PO.
She earned the most and therefore must take most blame
@@peterbennett5910 Blame is no respecter of salary. Besides, given that Fujitsu was and is an international tech giant, there must have been people on their side who were aware of the cover-up and who earned significantly more.
I have said the same, I hope the reward of the enquiry taking so long is that they are all caught.
Certain people will be hiding behind Vennells, and will be very, very glad she is being positioned to take the fall. I hate the woman, and hope she goes to prison, but there are others who are equally culpable.
Lord Arbuthnot championed the Sub Postmaster’s, Unlike Sir Ed Davie who Brushed Aside their Legitimate Concerns.
Paula Venells does the devils work!
The irony of that comment.
Bearing false witness against thy neighbor is an abomination of god.
To me she even looks the part .
Of course she does the devil’s work: she is, after all, a member of the CoE cult.
3 sixes above her hairline
Post office executives perverted the course of justice
Only criminally if they knew they were! Otherwise they were simply ignorant and incompetent fools! To me, the REAL criminals are those who suppressed the existence of the unlogged (therefore unaudited and invisible) transaction team! There will always be 'bugs' in massive commercial IT systems! An essential part of any accounting IT system (and I worked for over 30 years as a developer/administrator of such systems) is the logging of every transaction - even if not always visible to the end user! It seems, to me, that 'bugs' and the activity and effects of the 'secret transaction' group are likely the real cause of many of the issues, though responsibility for their activity is a management function!
She should be arrested this evening for crimes against humanity
Surely it is simpler than that, nearly every senior post office officer has perjured themselves at the various boards of inquiry and every PO investigator has offered false evidence in every trial.
Her commentary shows her prejudiced viewpoint from her previous studies to become a Church of England priest.
Vennels will never see the inside of a jail cell.i would get justice anothet way as british justice does noh visit folk like venneld.our justice system is eorse than s third world country
So should jo swinson and that other lib dem crook ed davies
@@michaelmcginley7930 There's a few MPs who know otherwise. Her let-out may be in Jason Beer's statement in the afternoon session that they had covert recordings of a discussion between her aide and one of the Lawyers about selective redaction of the information she received.
What a despicable person Paula Fennels is, she should face the law that she imposed on innocent post office masters.
Vennells, not fennels
'temptation' is hiding behind one's image as a minister while ruthlessly destroying the lives of 100's of people and families.
The behaviour of such people cannot be justified with mere apologies whether they are Post Office, Fujitsu or the insurance and legal companies.
There was plenty of time to come clean and plenty of time for whistleblowers to come forward.
Over 700 people's lives destroyed. You could maybe apologise for one such case but 700. Such an apology would not be sincere.
Vennels will get a peersge out of this
I agree. Four suicides too, which she had no sympathy for. It’s a sickening story.
@michaelmcginley7930
Vennels has been stripped of her CBE. I think a peerage would be unlikely.
@@JugglinJellyTake01i wanted it stripped not for her to give it up.
Paula should be picked up now and taken straight to prison then throw away the key .
A real MP..respect Arbuthnot...
Met this man a couple of times when he was an MP and in the course of ( police ) duty..always impressed me with his sense of integrity 😊
im willing to bet anybody right now that vennells doesnt see any jailtime, its just not how they do it at that level
she wont ..what she will see is another bonus and a knighthood.
@@BLUESKY-zt1nvnonsense
Don't bank on it just yet. If the Tory government start to feel the heat, she'll take all the blame. Welcome to the Self Preservation game.
At the top the guilty are innocent.
No computer system is 100% "robust". Just look at the number of updates on our apps and operating systems that happen almost every day because of bugs in those systems
That was the other implausibility of the POs position. In their eyes, Horizon was the only IT system in history that has zero bugs!
Absolutely. That's the ridiculous and mysterious thing about all of this. I don't understand why PV and the Post Office were so dogged in their insistence that Horizon was faultless. Why not just be upfront about it from the beginning and admit the system might be at fault? I don't understand why that was never an option. The faults could have been investigated, found and corrected, and that would have been the end of it. I'm guessing there's a lot more to come out of this, and I suspect there was pressure from central government to suppress criticism of Fujitsu, because ministers had undeclared interests in its profits.
@@tjfSIM I think at one time Fujitsu threatened to close down UK operations with the loss of jobs if the Horizon contract was cancelled because of all the faults that were happening on the initial roll-out. So they black-mailed the UK government.
@@davidcronan4072 That sounds very likely - do you have any sources?
Surely they can find capable uk firms to fill these contracts. The Brit’s basically invented computers and the web. I understand a few years ago they were going to dole out broadband to a Chinese company. Basic infrastructure shouldn’t be given to any foreign country, especially seeing what happens with a pandemic, when every country becomes nationalistic.
Paula Vennells & the thugs in suits should be forced to give back bonuses & be taken to court & charged with corporate perjury & being members of the post office mafia !
JAIL the vile individual Vennells.
The real question here is when is Vennells going to jail ?
Vennells needs to be locked up and the key needs to be thrown away
Why is this not in criminal court? There is more than enough evidence to put this woman in prison for life
Lord Arbuthnot, what a gentleman, what a modern day hero.
Old-school Tory, the kind I can still respect even if I don't agree with most of his political views.
Another nail in the coffin. How deep is the corruption & another example of how bad Cameroon & his government were.
Agree the Tories are 💩but let’s not forget, this started in 1999 when the system was installed in POs Labour were in power until 2010.
Labour did exactly yhe same thing
Is she in prison? I would be if I lied on such a scale would I not?
Soooo good to have this guy on board. He has a lot of credibility
Post Office leadership who lied need to held to account. Not just financially but loss of liberty…..
PV is a criminal lock her up and make HER pay for what she done, if it was a normal person like a member of the public, would of been in jail by now, she should pay all bonus she received back to the postmasters as part of there comp,
I guess the law doesn't apply to her then? She must have friends. Justice system in this country is a savage mockery.
Sadly the people in charge of this fiasco will probably be directors/owners of other companies.
They should be banned from ever being in charge of anyone ever again.
Doubt that'll happen, they have too much money, contacts, protection or influence sadly.
I bet there'll be a scapegoat or two and most of the people responsible will be free 😕
Lord Arbuthnot is exactly what a public representative/politician should be, a decent and honourable man who fights for the people he represents. Such a pity such a person is now a minority in politics today.
When people knew its not sad, it's criminal
A clear consequence of unqualified Post Office executives being placed in positions of authority over complex systems they don't understand and make no effort to understand. It was compounded by rolling out a bug-ridden computer system to remote employees and expecting them to understand the new system when no one actually understood it. The executives involved in the coverup should serve the same jail time as the falsely convicted employees and those employees should be fully compensated for lost wages, forced reimbursements, all legal fees, and a generous bonus to cover the emotional and reputational damage suffered.
He is a man who deserves to be called LORD.he never stopped fighting for the people.how many call you say has and would fight for so long who is named lord none I can think of.
This is the kind of thing MPs do day in day out without any recognition.
Vennells needs to find a country with no extradition treaty with the UK and FAST!
Why is she not behind bars now?
It is absolutely dreadful what happened. As somebody who spent 40 years in IT I am just shocked. The post office and that terrible woman and the developers of the system must be held accountable. It is not that hard to test systems and check your code - given the length of time involved.
I have worked with a large IT accounting system as well - the very idea that you can change inputs from a secret remote location screams one thing - FRAUD.
Let's dig a bit deeper, Alice Perkins was Chair of the P.O. AND a BBC Board Member.
At P.O., she was Chair of 'Project Sparrow' investigating the Horizon problems....
Panorama, BBC, was going to broadcast a programmme about the scandal in 2015. The P.O. Communications Boss led demands to have the programme shelved, his name, Mark Davies. He lobbied Alice Perkins and the programme was duly dropped. Mark Davies was Jack Straw's Special Advisor, Jack Straw was married to ........
Alice Perkins.
Hmmm .....
Thanks for covering this story. Senior figures from both the Post Office and Fujitsu finally need to be held to account for their actions.
Never voted Tory when I lived in uk and ever would, but lord Arbuthnot gave a admirable account of himself today, saying this catast spanedd labor, coalition and Tory governments.
Agreed! I've had several, mainly casual, interactions with politicians over my 50 years of work life. Most have been extremely dedicated, helpful but overworked folk who have to balance 'surgery work' with their political goals. The spectacle of PM Question time, interviews and similar activity - that is what we mainly see - is a tiny part of an MP's job! Lord Arbuthnot seems one of the outstanding ones and his 'rank' reflects his dedication!
The really depressing part of this scandal is that it has taken so long for it to get to where it is today!
@@rosssimpson6268There is still no justice for the miners strike lies and cover up. Hillsborough cover up. Grenfell and Windrush scandal, the mockery called the COVID enquiry, the invisible Russia report and many others that just disappear.
Thank you channel 4 for your coverage of this scandal. 👏
Since we are talking in many instances about thousands of pounds, "money in the till" does not cut it.
Vennels should be doing time as we speak, but no doubt she is the scapegoat for the ones at the very top of the greed-chain.....
*Lock Her Up!*
Who gave fujitsu any rights to secretly change another company`s records? What is the logic of fuijitsu staff fiddling with the postmasters accounts? were PO management in charge of those alterations?
The "logic", such as it is, was that they were mostly applying compensating transactions to records where it was known that the balance was in error. Some of the imbalances were so ridiculous they were easy to spot, so Fujitsu would put a "correction" in to get the balance right. And - contrary to popular belief - it wasn't just "missing" money; the bugs in the system could also cause false surpluses to appear, some of them huge. One small Post Office showed a "profit" of close to half a million pounds in a couple of days, and there were many similar examples.
@@ftumschk I still have a problem as to why it was done covertly. IT can normally alter a programme as its running with the user still online, then you have to explain that if some POs had profits added, why was it mainly deficits leading to the innocent being prosecuted and not even. I bet those allegedly in profit didn't keep that money, and that also shows the program wasn't fit for purpose. the red flags are all there at all stages. Its only happening to you,,,,,, that is as far from fujitsu putting a ``correction`` in as it gets. Can you post any reports of those examples?
@@marksavage1108 If you watch Alan Bates's testimony to the Inquiry this week, he's quick to point out that the system was also generating false surpluses. There was also a spreadsheet presented to the Inquiry which shows truly ridiculous "profits" in small Post Offices, but given the sheer volume of info presented to the Inquiry, I can't point you to a specific video.
It was also reported on the BBC News website only this week, complete with a screenshot of the spreadsheet showing ridiculous "profits" at a small PO, , but again I can't remember precisely where it was. But please trust me, the evidence exists.
Whether we're talking about phantom profits or losses, I totally agree that the corrections to the records shouldn't have been done in a covert manner. Furthermore, given the huge discrepancies (positive or negative) that were manually corrected, Fujitsu really should have put their hands up and said "look, there's something terribly wrong here".
@@marksavage1108 I did reply fully, but RUclips seems to have lost my comment. In brief, it said that, in his testimony this week, Alan Bates pointed out that Horizon also generated false surpluses. My comment also said that a spreadsheet was presented in evidence to the Inquiry (reproduced on a BBC News report) which showed that a small post office had made a ridiculous ~£500K's worth of sales in a couple of days.
I can't point you to the specific videos/articles, but - trust me - the evidence does exist, and it's in the public domain.
@@ftumschkSee this is still wrong,. Horizon didn't generate anything, `1```````fujitsu staff were changing the numbers````````````. so its sort of pointless even mentioning it that they. secretly changed a few numbers up as well. as down. either way its immoral and I suspect now illegal.
They ought to throw that Venells in jail, right now.
Yes get in Lord Arbuthnot! This is the man I wanted to see.....cant wait to see Vennells back and made to squirm but I suspect her memory will be like many others,very weak so expect lots of "i dont recall/i dont remember that".
The lack of probity in public life is shameful.
Well done James!
No accountabilitie 😢😢😢
Fujitsu knew all this and are just as complicit as the Post Office, so many liars so much jail time waiting - hopefully!!
True, and let's not forget that Vennells only became CEO of the Post Office in 2012 - more than a decade after ICL/Fujitsu's Horizon system was rolled out in 1999, and started wreaking havoc with the lives and livelihoods of countless postmasters from the get-go.
Give us this day our daily horizon account but not forgive us our imbalances, as we forgive our Post Office. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For Paula's Post Office is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.
When is Vennells due to give evidence?
Soon I think, but I'll bet its going to be interest.
22nd May
either when her lawyers have enough to defend her and get her off scot free ....or it will be cancelled and she will never have to give evidence ........its having power and friends in high places with a "special handshake." behind closed doors.
@@BLUESKY-zt1nvOkey Dokey.
@@BLUESKY-zt1nvit’s an enquiry not a trial. There is no defence or prosecution, have you been following any of this?
The police will not do anything what so ever .
The police are already investigating certain key individuals, although no names have been released as yet.
She should be immediately jailed whilst we slowly work out how long she should serve.
How on earth can they get away with this! The injustice....
THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS "HOT MESS".
The Reverend Paula Venality
Good Great and Honest Man!!!
It must have been like working on a dementia ward. Nobody remembers anything.
Will those responsible go to prison?
Appoint a Minister in charge of compensation - Another jobsworth - 'Grate Britain' = Down the drain
Sad maybe, criminal definitely
Stop all Fujitsu contracts with the government. It’s the publics money!
Does anyone think any senior exec will face any form of justice? They never, ever do - why will this be any different?
All of this just continually reinforces how those who are in overall charge of large enterprises,especially governmentally involved ones, are incompetent to the point of "criminality"!
Were they actually involved in this scam themselves?
Where has all the money gone that was "lost" in the Horizon so called "malfunction"!
How easy and ideal for any fraudster to be in conrol and syphon off millions by accusing others!
The Police need to follow the "stolen money" route!
It doesn’t look like the msm have done their job and reported on this. I live in USA now but look at English news and only seem to have heard this way back from Ian hislop on RUclips and it seems this is a major scandal that the newspapers of note should have been out front on, evidently only hitting the front pages when the docudrama came out. The first episode showed in Miami on Sunday, excellent, can’t wait to see the next 3 on pbs. Actually bought it on google tv, because I thought I could binge watch it but apparently they release it episode by episode after I watch it for free on pbs. I,m totally fascinated by how this happened in uk, so watched yesterdays inquiry with Mr bates and todays with lord arbuthnot. Can’t wait for the 3 days in may when Nevell is grilled.
Venells not nevell, my bad
Private Eye magazine had been reporting on this for over 20 years. I read about it there way back!
She knew beforehand. Jail beckons if there's Justice and culpability
Its been reported that one of the biggest outrageous things that happened was the post office showed the wrongly taken money fron the sub post offices was included in the yearly profits. Not sure if that had an effect on bonuses given.
He must be sent to prison
They walk amongst us.. be careful. 🙏
I bet that not one of them go to prison.
She is such a truthful person, said no one ever
Jail the entire board of directors for fraud and perjury.
I cant see anyway Vennalls stays out of jail........but then again she will probably get the best justice money can buy
When are the Met going to act on this ? they are quick enough to snatch union jacks ?
The post office bosses should have their salaries forfeited under the Proceeds of Crime Act POCA and the money used to partly recompense the sub postmasters who were jailed.
Robust, meaning, ‘You couldn’t break the monitor with a sledgehammer’!!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙄🙄🙄🤨
Jail her.
Just remember, you're a sacrifice people like Paula are willing to make!
What is sad that people in trust, are not able to live up to that trust , because of greed, ego, vanity, no integrity, that lying is their truth. The gullibility of government in this is unbelievable, that is also despicable,
More likely the temptation for bonuses to convict (not do the other part of their job)
Close down the post office. Start again from scratch.
Where was the money 💰 trail..red flag for any investigation 🔎 🤔
Vennells would know about taking money that did not belong to her
She HAS to serve a jail sentence surely.
Vennells should be behind bars.
Post Office breeds greed.
Like any Soviet state owned industry that enjoys a government monopoly, the PO management ethos was one of politics and butt-covering rather than solving problems.
Kind of like Hillsborough. Destroy the evidence, then deny deny deny. Blame the victims. Then by the time the truth is out, the victims are dead and the bosses have retired, so nothing to be done.
with out doubt she been getting a five finger discount from church donation tray.
? checking my comment not been removed for puala's feelings.
She should get one count of perverting the course of justice for every case wrongfully convicted, at the bare minimum.
I blame the temptation of the honours system.
Why did the judges not
Question over 700 citizens stealing from one organisation.
This seems a strange
Statistic.
They are very well paid
Given privilege.
It would seem they also did not do there duty.
Just making people criminal on the say so of a rich business dos not seem to be making
Our judicial system
Work properly. That's their job.
The only temptation I can see is for Vennells to say anything to protect her bonuses, regardless of the cost to others.
every accusation is a confession, every insult a reflection, every claim a lie.
Vennells appeared to be distanced from the actual facts and details by a female Post Office employed 'Fixer' as shown in the TV drama series but that is not how a CEO should operate