Worth knowing that Victron Multiplus has a protected and non protected outputs to run part of your house in case of a power cut. I’ve made a video showing it.
Great video guys - alway interesting. Thought worth sharing that Tesla is not the only system that is capable of running a house if grid fails - Victron inverter chargers are very capable of doing just that as they have grid pass through built in and grid pass back if wanted. They can also be run in tandom for split phase systems off a single battery system. Essentially a UPS for a house.
I had assumed that all battery systems were capable of running the house in case of a power cut. Pleased I watched this as it's definitely something I'll keep in mind when we come to get our PV & battery system in the future.
Hello friend, we are a lithium iron phosphate battery factory from China. If you are interested in cooperation, please let me know. We are looking for distributors in various countries around the world.
12:55 Not many power cuts, but the neutral going down seems like its an issue. With all the PEN fault detection required because it happens so often there! (speaking from someone in the USA that doesn't have that issue normally.) 🤠👍 Looks like a nice system, keep up the good work guys, always fun to watch your videos and see how things are done over the pond!
You don't _have_ to depend on a Tesla PowerWall + Gateway if you want your battery to power your whole installation in island mode during an outage. In the UK, as long as the battery/inverter system is capable of island operation AND the installation is compliant with ENA Engineering Recommendation G99, you could do it. Bespoke interface protection and switchgear installation plus commissioning would cost a few quid but if you can afford a 23kWh battery, you might be able to afford the interface too.
Dear Artisan Electrics, how much will the customer charge for one mega watt of electricity exported to the grid? It would be great if you can let me know-Or anyone else who knows you are all welcome. Thank you
What do you suggest for a Neutral when youve lost all grid incoming? Dig up the feild and install both N+E for 50m? + switch gear to isolate it all when back on grid. More to it than first appears i think
I've now installed 28kWh of Pylontech batteries. 8x 3.5kWh batteries. Very simple. Very cost effective. Installed in the loft with a 300kg structural platform.... The system is basically plug and play. I got a local electrician to install the new circuit for it. Very cheap. Not an overpriced "Solar/EV/green" energy quote. No need for an apprentice to help pull the cable up into the loft either. 😉
Hello friend, we are a lithium iron phosphate battery factory from China. If you are interested in cooperation, please let me know. We are looking for distributors in various countries around the world.
You don't need Tesla, just an automatic transfer switch. There are a few options for UK domestic, some even allow a switched trigger remote to start a generator so that you can input when solar is too low, mains is out, and battery is low.
You do a nice job. I was lucky enough to get 2 Tesla Powerwalls last April and they allowed my solar array to completely power my house until December when shorter days and cloudier weather cut the solar output. Watching from Arizona, USA.
Here in the U.S. In my opinion... a "Grid assist" with properly sized panels and batteries is the ONLY way to go. The power companies here are screwing grid tied customers over in many ways. Use the grid as the "backup" power if the need arises. Nice install!
Hello friend, we are a lithium iron phosphate battery factory from China. If you are interested in cooperation, please let me know. We are looking for distributors in various countries around the world.
Great video gents, and the reason Lee hasn’t had a hot pie at Greggs last couple of visits, is that they don’t keep them heated once baked due to the hot food tax. If they don’t keep them heated they don’t charge VAT. So it’s pot luck if you get a hot one that’s just been baked or not 🤣
We seriously have a hot food tax? If I’m being dumb and gullible I apologise but it sounds too British not to be true. We get taxed and licensed for everything so being taxed for hot food wouldn’t surprise me.
Really when you install a battery system of this size you would Really want grid down power for at least essential loads. This client has loads of solar to. I'd be looking into Victrons range of products. There Multiplus and Quattros are fantastic bits of kit.
Was under the impression several victron energy inverter models support ESS so when paired with a number of compatible batteries could also be used as a house UPS
Hello friend, we are a lithium iron phosphate battery factory from China. If you are interested in cooperation, please let me know. We are looking for distributors in various countries around the world.
Victron inverters can run from battery when the grid fails and as they are grid forming they will keep any solar inverter running stopping the anti islanding function from kicking in, only down side to this would be the breakers in the inverters have a max disconnect which i think is 50 amps so no good if you run 10Kw showers, this is the system i have in mind, Victron multiplus 2 5000 VA with 14Kwh battery and 3.6kwh solar (solar already present) the Victron also has 2 power outputs 1 for main loads and 1 for essential loads, essential loads are effectively on a UPS, Victron inverters also have built in relays so you can control additional energy diverters, lots of options but they are on the pricey side of the market
I guess we are lucky in Baltics/Nordic region where we actual sell our excess energy to the grid. Depending on the contract you sell at the fixed price or at stock price that changes every hour. We also use inverter that itself tracks how much energy panels are producing, how much you use yourself, buy from grid and also export to grid.
SMA inverters also support automatic fail-over to full house battery backup, up to 24kW of power (3 phases of 8kW) (The Sunny Island series of inverters) Unfortunately, they're also hard to get at the moment, but certainly not 2 years. You're also way more flexible in which batteries you use.
But in the UK, full battery back up would be 23KW on a single phase. There's only a few very modern properties that run 3 phase from the national grid. You can't take a single phase house and cable it up to use 3 separate phases. You could, but you would have to replace the single phase distribution unit with a 3 phase type, and have a whole load of switching to be able to switch between 3 phase from the inverters and single phase national grid power and route the single phase to the separate 3 phase feeds into the 3 phase distribution unit. It's getting silly. A far better approach is a single 23KW single phase inverter.
@@deang5622 This house was 3 phase, farms and some large properties have had 3 phase going back many years. But yes thankfully 3 phase is becoming more common on new builds that have heat pumps and EV charging due to expected loads.
Enjoyed the video. I heard somewhere, cant remember where, that you guys are doing a Myenergi Libbi battery install video soon. Keen to see that, when is it due out?
In South Africa, due our national power provider not been able to meet demand due to bad management of the national grid, it has become essential for us to install hybrid inverters with solar and batteries.
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what earthing system did you use for the island mode fuseboard that supplies the two double sockets? Sunsynk also offers island mode and is a great versatile inverter!
I've installed this Inverter but Im having problems with the data from the monitoring, its saying im exporting more than the system is generating, and the gen meter doesent match the generation figure in the app, did you have any of these problems when you were commissioning the system?
Did I see this correctly? You're connecting the whole battery system AC-side? So the solar inverter first converts the DC from the panels to AC and then the battery converter converts it to DC again to store it? How much energy does that double conversion waste?
@@deang5622 To be fair, DC-DC conversion is hard, especially when it's for more than a couple milliamps. AC you can just run through a transformer, but those don't work for DC. I have to concur with Attila here, high-voltage DC (i.e. batteries in series) is a bit of a problem. On the other hand, panels are also connected in series, so one should be able to match panel voltage and battery voltage... :shrug:
@@HenryLoenwind You don't actually need DC DC conversion when charging batteries. All you do is ensure the solar panels are connected so you have a high enough voltage and then feed the current into a battery charger. So it is more than possible to charge up batteries without the losses associated with converting DC to AC and back again.
@@deang5622 That's what most of the hybrids do- they run a 48v or 72v battery bank, and use DC from the panels through their own (or external if required) solar controllers, and only have the one DC-AC conversion... The setup Jordan's installed tends to only be used (at least in Australia) where you already have an existing gridtie solar install and are wanting to 'retrofit' a battery backed hybrid system afterwards- it allows minimal modifications and reuses existing gridtie inverters and such- but at a loss of efficiency over one that is done pure DC from the start...
Great video, with the cost of energy going up these systems are making more sense. I didn't realise power wall was the only system that switched over to batteries automatically in the event of a power cut.
I wonder about these batteries. I'm using a set of car batteries for an old computer UPS which had dead sealed ones. They tend to die after a few years, requiring replacement. And they don't tend to see many heavy discharge cycles that would reduce their capacity. What kind of lifetime is there for these power walls? Do you need to replace the batteries every few years? What are the maintenance costs, now and projected as they become more commonplace? What happens with any dead batteries?
@@artisanelectrics So, assuming roughly a cycle a day, these batteries are rated for an average lifespan of 27 years? That's a lot better then I expected. By that time battery technology will have evolved. Not in the UK myself, but I'm going to have to look into that!
Great video (as always) and nice kit. I have a GivEnergy battery system being installed in 2-3 weeks time; 2x 9.5Kwh batteries and 2x3k AC inverters. I can charge everything overnight on Go tariff and remaining 21 hours run on batteries with up to 6k load from the 2 inverters. Plus 5.6Kw solar when the sun shines :) ASHP being installed next year. Single Phase house in Gedney Hill not far from you. Curious if I've gone large more than most, are you installing many or any around 20kwh ? Emergency Power Supply or EPS: As already said it's not just Tesla this is a common feature in most battery backup systems, the faff is how you connect into your existing circuits. I got conflicting advice such as "wire certain sockets for EPS and a few lights". For me it's easy set all downstairs sockets on the EPS and be sensible and don't overload it in the event of a power supply.
13:03 Why not use a ATS to switch power (PS: I have no idea how much they cost and how hard it is to implement, I just know they are used in Datacentres for keeping consistent power)
It is. But it is not exclusive to those situations. You can use it wherever you want, if the customer is willing to pay for it, and it is felt the level of risk warrants it. It might not be strictly necessary, but it's clearly being used in an "industrial" type room although in a residential property.
Interesting, we have two Tesla PWs with the third due imminently; with our solar panels we will not be taking any grid power at all from mid-March to October. We had a power cut last month but were unaware of it as we continued to automatically use the Tesla batteries, supplemented by solar power.
Massively expensive. Do a DIY install with pylontech batteries and a Solis Hybrid Inverter. You only need a local electrician for the new circuit. Don't get sucked in with these "green energy" electricians who inflate the costs just because its "green"
Why don’t you install a generator auto switchover unit We’ve been using for years in the field and they’ve never let us down to switch over a main power to inverted power
in theory it can, but you're not allowed to backfeed the grid. Of course, there are ways around it if you were designing a system from the start, but it looks they had solar before and now bolting battery storage to it.
Take the output from the inverter and feed an automatic transfer switch...power would then switch over automatically in the event of grid power. Easy.. Then there is no problem back feeding into the grid. But they don't have a huge amount of battery capacity to power the entire property for long.
Because it isn't true???? It 'was' true- about a decade ago before high voltage MPPT took over from low voltage PWM solar controllers, but these days, light 100% overcast and showers will still see you up around 50% of normal output, and even heavy black overcast with heavy rain will be around 30% of normal
its great to see a large battery system but as this doesnt auto switch over - what does this power - dont get what the customer spent all this money on. is the heating permanently supplied by it? its not big enough to charge a car so, yes a bit confused
This is a very expensive way of adding battery storage. I'm offgrid in Shropshire and I recently added 15KWh comprising 16x280AH LiFePO4 and a smart balancer. It all cost less than £2500.
@@snajperSLO Docan 280AH (same as EVE) plus a JiKONG JK-B2A24S balancer. Remember to compress the cells in an enclosure and add breakers and a LVD to the system if you don't already have one
@@AndyFletcherX31 Was looking at the EVE 280 but they are around 180€/piece (A-grade). Don't know if you can get them cheaper in europe... Had no luck. Thank you one more time for the info :)
Why not, in this usecase because of the size of the solar array and battery storage, go for a semi-off grid system with an automatic failover switch? Seems like a waste when the power goes down and all you have are some extension leads...
Great video!!! Hugely envious of that instal! That’s exactly what I want to build at mine. The point you made on switching to battery in the event of power failure. Is there really no way if doing that in the same way a UPS system works? I’ve no interest in a Tesla battery.
TBH, i'm not sure why they didnt get a larger battery pack and then just go off grid if they dont want to export. I've got the final 3 of 6 SOK 100ah 48v batteries arriving today.... Gonna take the house off grid with 7kw solar and a transfer switch.
Nice neat install....one thing I noticed though, the DC cables feeding the inverter looked rather small for a possible 10KW inverter, I'd be a bit worried about that ?
Here's a fantastic summary of that riveting video where we install the world's largest paperweight, I mean, home battery storage system. So, we've got this ginormous solar array, but 70% of the energy goes to waste - bummer, right? Well, fear not, we've got the solution! We'll slap a massive 23 kWh battery storage system into this house, so it can go almost off-grid. You'll be on the edge of your seat watching us lug around heavy equipment, struggle with mounting batteries, and complain about cold Greg's sandwiches. We take you through the riveting process of measuring, marking, and installing the battery storage system - step by step. You'll witness the birth of 23 kWh of battery storage, made up of six modules and a BMS (the brain of the operation). Don't forget the 10 kW inverter, because you need to convert that DC power to AC for your house, duh! We deal with pesky wall problems, making sure our battery babies are securely mounted, and install backup consumer units for those rare UK power cuts. And just when you think it can't get any more thrilling, we tackle cables and communications connections! So grab a cup of tea (or 23,287 of them, thanks to our excess solar energy) and enjoy this electrifying waste of time. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and question your life choices.
at the start jordan mentioned 1500 for each battery and theres 7 so just the batteries your looking at 10,500 .... then the cost of the rest of the system + install its perhaps in the region of 15-20k
Those batteries look as if they are linked in series. What happens when one fails? The connection cables don't look long enough to bypass a failed battery.
You would have to remove the failed battery then move all of the others up. The BMS module would also likely need adjusting for one less battery therefore lower voltage etc.
How hard could it be to install some high current contactors between the grid side and backup side to isolate the incoming tails, controlled by the grid side so it will switch the entire house to backup when the grid goes down.
Let them doing the first time experiment Jordan trying to do this experiment without any information because thinking how he will pay he’s employer’s at the end of the day
They don't have enough battery capacity to feed the whole house for long. 23kWh of battery is only 1 hour of use at maximum load for a residential house (with 100amp main fuse and 230 volts). In practise the house won't be operating at 23kW, but even if operating at 5kW, that's still only 4 hours of capacity from the batteries. It's not much if you're then having to wait for the next day of sunshine to recharge the batteries. In winter you might not get enough sun the next day. So this really isn't a design that is suitable for off grid use, save for a few hours at a time. And grid power in this country is extremely reliable, so why bother with the huge expense of designing a system and having enough capacity to run for 24 hours or more?
Isn't a Tesla powerwall 5.8 kilowatt hours? I don't know if you can get Tesla powerwalls where you're at. I hope the ones that you're installing are really cheap
Personally when testing 3 phase circuits, I test R1+R2 on all phases because you want to check each end is continuous across each phase. Although you are proving only one phase you are assuming the other phases have been correctly manufactured. It’s unlikely to have a break but not impossible and have seen it happen. As artisans I expect you to do the same as you go the extra mile on everything. Not digging you out at all just how I do it and my view.
@@lewis94uk but you want to prove the conductors first before energising. skipping this is bad in my view, the whole point of the continuity test is to prove end to end of all conductors not just the earth....
@@anthonycampbell9807 Not required. You are required to do R1+R2 test, assuming there is a neutral present, and if you do that for all phases, then you *are* proving the continuity. And not only is it proving the continuity, it's measuring the resistance which determines the maximum current carry capability and so you are also verifying the current you expect the installation to be able to handle. If the R1+R2 tests results in very high resistance, such as caused by a cable break, then you investigate and resolve.
Not true that Tesla power wall is only system to provide whole house support, Victron ESS and even the dreaded SMA have systems. SMA is dreaded because after 10 years of installing I fell out with them due to being appallingly let down.
Once you add in an electric car 23kwh isn't much storage at all. That's about 80 miles on for a small electric car. I wonder what these batteries run. Right you you can get about 25.6 kwh of storage for around $10k with rack, cables included (Current Connected) Anyone know what these 23kwh would run in the UK?
You don't get paid for the solar energy you provide for the grid? We had a great summer with a lot of customers having a 5-10c/kWh contract when they buy electricity but when selling the excess power back to the grid they were paid by NordPool and got paid around 30c/kWh at best
@@justme5384 I have just looked it up and I don't believe the figures I am seeing. The Feed-in tariff appears to be set by the government, and incredibly, ridiculously depends on the Energy Performance Certificate rating for the house/premises generating the electricity. The EPC is about how energy efficient your house is, how good the insulation is, whether you have double glazing for the windows. How on earth should that affect how much the power company pays you for the electricity you generate? And what does it matter if the electricity you generate and sell to the grid is solar or wind? There are different rates for this too! The way it is structured is complete nonsense. It's rigged. But to answer you question, the feed in tariff seems to vary from close to zero to 5.99 pence per kWh. Given the power companies can sell the electricity on for 34 pence per kWh at the moment, it's a rip-off. If anyone is generating electricity by PV and feeding into the UK national grid that is getting a much higher feed-in tariff rate, then please comment and let us know when (what year) you started feeding in power to the grid, how much you are being paid per kWh, and what year your FIT scheme ends please.
I used to work at greggs I can tell you why no heat lamps , if greggs and other places kept food hot government have to put 20% on top of the prices same if you eat in government will charge 20% more
Worth knowing that Victron Multiplus has a protected and non protected outputs to run part of your house in case of a power cut. I’ve made a video showing it.
Appreciate the shoutout, guys! Always great knowing our app is saving you time on your admin.
Great video guys - alway interesting.
Thought worth sharing that Tesla is not the only system that is capable of running a house if grid fails - Victron inverter chargers are very capable of doing just that as they have grid pass through built in and grid pass back if wanted. They can also be run in tandom for split phase systems off a single battery system. Essentially a UPS for a house.
As does the Sunsynk hybrid inverter. Believe it will go up to 5kW depending on inverter size.
Just use voltage sensitive relays that will switch over automatically.
2 year delivery on Tesla Powerwalls ! !
...or any other hybrid Inverter that had a critical circuit output.
@@philware1546 True! there are a number of them, Growatt are another...
@@nickbea3443 Think Victron go up to 15KV with their Quattro's
I had assumed that all battery systems were capable of running the house in case of a power cut. Pleased I watched this as it's definitely something I'll keep in mind when we come to get our PV & battery system in the future.
Hello friend, we are a lithium iron phosphate battery factory from China. If you are interested in cooperation, please let me know. We are looking for distributors in various countries around the world.
Wow great install Jordan, way beyond what most ordinary people would ever need or could ever afford. Still fascinating to see what can be done!
I actually grabbed a cup of tea, I'm not even british, that show into these guys I am
Victron multiplus 2 does whole house backup too.
With energy prices always going up, it's a no brainer to have a battery to suppliment the solar. Love ours :-)
12:55 Not many power cuts, but the neutral going down seems like its an issue. With all the PEN fault detection required because it happens so often there! (speaking from someone in the USA that doesn't have that issue normally.) 🤠👍 Looks like a nice system, keep up the good work guys, always fun to watch your videos and see how things are done over the pond!
It happens never, just a weird obsession we have developed when it comes to ev charging.
Further to what Ed C said, never seen this. Now Phase Loss on the other hand...
Would love to see an update on the data. They have some hefty solar panels there!
"It'll be alright once it's up" - Classic 😂😂😂😂
You don't _have_ to depend on a Tesla PowerWall + Gateway if you want your battery to power your whole installation in island mode during an outage. In the UK, as long as the battery/inverter system is capable of island operation AND the installation is compliant with ENA Engineering Recommendation G99, you could do it. Bespoke interface protection and switchgear installation plus commissioning would cost a few quid but if you can afford a 23kWh battery, you might be able to afford the interface too.
Victron probably has an integrated solution for that
Dear Artisan Electrics, how much will the customer charge for one mega watt of electricity exported to the grid? It would be great if you can let me know-Or anyone else who knows you are all welcome. Thank you
What do you suggest for a Neutral when youve lost all grid incoming? Dig up the feild and install both N+E for 50m? + switch gear to isolate it all when back on grid. More to it than first appears i think
I've now installed 28kWh of Pylontech batteries. 8x 3.5kWh batteries.
Very simple. Very cost effective.
Installed in the loft with a 300kg structural platform....
The system is basically plug and play. I got a local electrician to install the new circuit for it. Very cheap. Not an overpriced "Solar/EV/green" energy quote.
No need for an apprentice to help pull the cable up into the loft either. 😉
It would be very interesting to get an update on how much of their solar energy they are now able to use thanks to the battery storage system.
Hello friend, we are a lithium iron phosphate battery factory from China. If you are interested in cooperation, please let me know. We are looking for distributors in various countries around the world.
Thank God! Lee is back!
😁👍
You don't need Tesla, just an automatic transfer switch. There are a few options for UK domestic, some even allow a switched trigger remote to start a generator so that you can input when solar is too low, mains is out, and battery is low.
You do a nice job. I was lucky enough to get 2 Tesla Powerwalls last April and they allowed my solar array to completely power my house until December when shorter days and cloudier weather cut the solar output. Watching from Arizona, USA.
Here in the U.S. In my opinion... a "Grid assist" with properly sized panels and batteries is the ONLY way to go. The power companies here are screwing grid tied customers over in many ways. Use the grid as the "backup" power if the need arises. Nice install!
Grid tie in the UK is best, as the grid is always there providing system stability and you don’t need to install huge inverters.
Hello friend, we are a lithium iron phosphate battery factory from China. If you are interested in cooperation, please let me know. We are looking for distributors in various countries around the world.
Very very nice installation gents
Great video. Very informative. Would like to watch a future video showing savings / usage etc.👍👏👍👏👍👏🏴
Great video gents, and the reason Lee hasn’t had a hot pie at Greggs last couple of visits, is that they don’t keep them heated once baked due to the hot food tax. If they don’t keep them heated they don’t charge VAT. So it’s pot luck if you get a hot one that’s just been baked or not 🤣
Was looking for this before I made the comment myself lol.
just come to mine I’ll reheat it for you
I was coming to say the same.
We seriously have a hot food tax? If I’m being dumb and gullible I apologise but it sounds too British not to be true. We get taxed and licensed for everything so being taxed for hot food wouldn’t surprise me.
@@theghostofsabertache9049 Yes, keeping it warm is a luxury so VAT.
Blimey, Tidy electricians. That is unusual. Nice job chaps
Really when you install a battery system of this size you would Really want grid down power for at least essential loads. This client has loads of solar to. I'd be looking into Victrons range of products. There Multiplus and Quattros are fantastic bits of kit.
whats the gauge of that battery cable? seems too thin
regarding the battery units leaning due to the weight: How does that fit in with the ventilation of the unit?
So what did it cost? Materials & labour separated.
Was under the impression several victron energy inverter models support ESS so when paired with a number of compatible batteries could also be used as a house UPS
Hello friend, we are a lithium iron phosphate battery factory from China. If you are interested in cooperation, please let me know. We are looking for distributors in various countries around the world.
awesome video and great install guys .
2:08 whats yout thought on electric boilers with system like that?
Victron inverters can run from battery when the grid fails and as they are grid forming they will keep any solar inverter running stopping the anti islanding function from kicking in, only down side to this would be the breakers in the inverters have a max disconnect which i think is 50 amps so no good if you run 10Kw showers, this is the system i have in mind, Victron multiplus 2 5000 VA with 14Kwh battery and 3.6kwh solar (solar already present) the Victron also has 2 power outputs 1 for main loads and 1 for essential loads, essential loads are effectively on a UPS, Victron inverters also have built in relays so you can control additional energy diverters, lots of options but they are on the pricey side of the market
What about price per kwh?
I guess we are lucky in Baltics/Nordic region where we actual sell our excess energy to the grid. Depending on the contract you sell at the fixed price or at stock price that changes every hour.
We also use inverter that itself tracks how much energy panels are producing, how much you use yourself, buy from grid and also export to grid.
SMA inverters also support automatic fail-over to full house battery backup, up to 24kW of power (3 phases of 8kW) (The Sunny Island series of inverters)
Unfortunately, they're also hard to get at the moment, but certainly not 2 years. You're also way more flexible in which batteries you use.
But in the UK, full battery back up would be 23KW on a single phase. There's only a few very modern properties that run 3 phase from the national grid.
You can't take a single phase house and cable it up to use 3 separate phases.
You could, but you would have to replace the single phase distribution unit with a 3 phase type, and have a whole load of switching to be able to switch between 3 phase from the inverters and single phase national grid power and route the single phase to the separate 3 phase feeds into the 3 phase distribution unit. It's getting silly.
A far better approach is a single 23KW single phase inverter.
@@deang5622 This house was 3 phase, farms and some large properties have had 3 phase going back many years. But yes thankfully 3 phase is becoming more common on new builds that have heat pumps and EV charging due to expected loads.
Enjoyed the video. I heard somewhere, cant remember where, that you guys are doing a Myenergi Libbi battery install video soon. Keen to see that, when is it due out?
Tell Lee and co the reason that Greggs don't have hot lamps is that if they "intentionally" keep it warm, you gotta then charge VAT...
What??
Interesting to know how the management systems compare, because this is important with these larger systems with more variables.
Nice video. Could you go more into details on the process with the DNO and how long it took to get G99 processed.
Brill I could watch you for hours and I’m an electrician too, talk about busman’s holiday 😳
In South Africa, due our national power provider not been able to meet demand due to bad management of the national grid, it has become essential for us to install hybrid inverters with solar and batteries.
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Yeah, you unstuck your beard and stuck it back on for the next segment! 😆
Hi, how did you overcome the problem where the battery is vertically not level ?
CHA CHING $$$$ huge solar array and huge batteries... going Net Zero is freaking expensive
What were your deciding facotors when choosing the Puredrive system? Nice neat job as usual lads! Tiptop.
Did you fit an earth electrode for the EPS/UPS side of the installation.
what earthing system did you use for the island mode fuseboard that supplies the two double sockets?
Sunsynk also offers island mode and is a great versatile inverter!
KTS powersystems in Scotland provide a full backup AC gateway system using datacentre tech. 👍
I've installed this Inverter but Im having problems with the data from the monitoring, its saying im exporting more than the system is generating, and the gen meter doesent match the generation figure in the app, did you have any of these problems when you were commissioning the system?
Did I see this correctly? You're connecting the whole battery system AC-side? So the solar inverter first converts the DC from the panels to AC and then the battery converter converts it to DC again to store it? How much energy does that double conversion waste?
About 20 percent. Only one of the disadvantages of high voltage battery systems.
It's crap isn't it? Solar panels output DC, no reason why that can't be used to charge the batteries directly with no conversions, except for DC-DC.
@@deang5622 To be fair, DC-DC conversion is hard, especially when it's for more than a couple milliamps. AC you can just run through a transformer, but those don't work for DC.
I have to concur with Attila here, high-voltage DC (i.e. batteries in series) is a bit of a problem. On the other hand, panels are also connected in series, so one should be able to match panel voltage and battery voltage... :shrug:
@@HenryLoenwind You don't actually need DC DC conversion when charging batteries.
All you do is ensure the solar panels are connected so you have a high enough voltage and then feed the current into a battery charger.
So it is more than possible to charge up batteries without the losses associated with converting DC to AC and back again.
@@deang5622 That's what most of the hybrids do- they run a 48v or 72v battery bank, and use DC from the panels through their own (or external if required) solar controllers, and only have the one DC-AC conversion... The setup Jordan's installed tends to only be used (at least in Australia) where you already have an existing gridtie solar install and are wanting to 'retrofit' a battery backed hybrid system afterwards- it allows minimal modifications and reuses existing gridtie inverters and such- but at a loss of efficiency over one that is done pure DC from the start...
Great video, with the cost of energy going up these systems are making more sense. I didn't realise power wall was the only system that switched over to batteries automatically in the event of a power cut.
I only learned that recently too… seems crazy to me to not have that switching functionality built into these systems 🤷🏻♂️
Why can't a Automatic Transfer Switch be used ?
They don't really make sense though do they because the amount this entire setup costs by the time it breaks even you'd be 6 foot under.
@@TheRCBiker and Captain Killjoy has arrived😅
I have a Victron system that switches over automatically. There are others out there too which can have ATS component
Great Video👍 Really Interesting.
I wonder about these batteries. I'm using a set of car batteries for an old computer UPS which had dead sealed ones. They tend to die after a few years, requiring replacement. And they don't tend to see many heavy discharge cycles that would reduce their capacity.
What kind of lifetime is there for these power walls? Do you need to replace the batteries every few years? What are the maintenance costs, now and projected as they become more commonplace? What happens with any dead batteries?
Hey 👋🏻 Pure Drive rate this particular battery at 10,000 cycles at 90% DOD.
@@artisanelectrics Do you have one cycle per day? If so, that's 27 years.
My Powerwall is over 3 years old and it will probably out last me, and once it does die you can recycle over 90% of it.
@@artisanelectrics So, assuming roughly a cycle a day, these batteries are rated for an average lifespan of 27 years? That's a lot better then I expected. By that time battery technology will have evolved.
Not in the UK myself, but I'm going to have to look into that!
With a ups the very high C rate discharge tends to place a lot of wear onto the battery every time it kicks in.
Great video (as always) and nice kit.
I have a GivEnergy battery system being installed in 2-3 weeks time; 2x 9.5Kwh batteries and 2x3k AC inverters. I can charge everything overnight on Go tariff and remaining 21 hours run on batteries with up to 6k load from the 2 inverters. Plus 5.6Kw solar when the sun shines :) ASHP being installed next year. Single Phase house in Gedney Hill not far from you. Curious if I've gone large more than most, are you installing many or any around 20kwh ?
Emergency Power Supply or EPS: As already said it's not just Tesla this is a common feature in most battery backup systems, the faff is how you connect into your existing circuits. I got conflicting advice such as "wire certain sockets for EPS and a few lights". For me it's easy set all downstairs sockets on the EPS and be sensible and don't overload it in the event of a power supply.
Automatic transfer switch on the main line and eps on one side grid goes down switch to eps
Works as a ups no power loss
@@snoopibnwhat to do without a neutral? After grid turned off.
13:03 Why not use a ATS to switch power (PS: I have no idea how much they cost and how hard it is to implement, I just know they are used in Datacentres for keeping consistent power)
I thought that swa was mainly used for mechanical protection in prone locations like external or workshop situations.
It is. But it is not exclusive to those situations.
You can use it wherever you want, if the customer is willing to pay for it, and it is felt the level of risk warrants it.
It might not be strictly necessary, but it's clearly being used in an "industrial" type room although in a residential property.
Loft space with vermin it’s a good choice, in the UK it means you don’t have to provide RCD protection to that circuit.
Maybe a couple of penny washers behind the two bottom screws of the wall mount to kick the bottom end out a bit?
again with the MC4 connector. dont untwist it. crimp it and push it in. it will lock it self... then tighten the MC4 connector..
Interesting, we have two Tesla PWs with the third due imminently; with our solar panels we will not be taking any grid power at all from mid-March to October. We had a power cut last month but were unaware of it as we continued to automatically use the Tesla batteries, supplemented by solar power.
Thought it would notify you and shed circuits during a power cut? I know I can’t use things like my induction cooktop
@@edc1569 2PWs allow a 10kW draw, enough for an induction hob, but we would drastically cut power usage during a power cut.
Cool videos. Wish you guys worked in Sutton coldfield
Will the batteries shut off in freezing weather?
Yesterday second Powerwall, now 26kwh. 🎉
What's the cost of these battery modules like compared to others on the market?
Massively expensive.
Do a DIY install with pylontech batteries and a Solis Hybrid Inverter.
You only need a local electrician for the new circuit.
Don't get sucked in with these "green energy" electricians who inflate the costs just because its "green"
Was looking at Pylontech batteries and have been quoted for a similar system but the brand was Fox which I've never heard of 😅
Battery pack cant run the house so that install is just for the cars?
How did you resolve the alignment issues of the stacked batteries ( top of one and bottom of the other ) ?
Why don’t you install a generator auto switchover unit We’ve been using for years in the field and they’ve never let us down to switch over a main power to inverted power
Doesn’t the battery power kick in automatically in the event of a power cut?
If so, what is the reason for emergency sockets?
in theory it can, but you're not allowed to backfeed the grid. Of course, there are ways around it if you were designing a system from the start, but it looks they had solar before and now bolting battery storage to it.
Take the output from the inverter and feed an automatic transfer switch...power would then switch over automatically in the event of grid power. Easy.. Then there is no problem back feeding into the grid.
But they don't have a huge amount of battery capacity to power the entire property for long.
Love solar, DC generation from panels, converts to ac for home, devices takes ac and transforms it back to DC lol
Can I ask who you use as your solar wholesaler ?
Didn't know Rob Beckett was working for you now
An alternative power cut backup is an EV6/Nero EV/Ioniq 5.
Most interesting. However, no one ever seems to mention that in overcast winter days solar generation can be almost zero .
Because it isn't true???? It 'was' true- about a decade ago before high voltage MPPT took over from low voltage PWM solar controllers, but these days, light 100% overcast and showers will still see you up around 50% of normal output, and even heavy black overcast with heavy rain will be around 30% of normal
Are you sure you used the correct gauge wire from the batteries for that 10kW inverter?
Mmmm.....
Looks like 100A is max on those cables
since when was Rob Beckett part of Artisan 🤣🤷♂
its great to see a large battery system but as this doesnt auto switch over - what does this power - dont get what the customer spent all this money on. is the heating permanently supplied by it? its not big enough to charge a car so, yes a bit confused
Large export isn’t necessarily a problem. Octopus are paying 20-25p /kWh for export right now.
This is a very expensive way of adding battery storage. I'm offgrid in Shropshire and I recently added 15KWh comprising 16x280AH LiFePO4 and a smart balancer. It all cost less than £2500.
Can I ask which brand are the LiFe batteries or if you can provide a list of all parts (battery, BMS...). Thank you!
@@snajperSLO Docan 280AH (same as EVE) plus a JiKONG JK-B2A24S balancer. Remember to compress the cells in an enclosure and add breakers and a LVD to the system if you don't already have one
@@AndyFletcherX31 Was looking at the EVE 280 but they are around 180€/piece (A-grade). Don't know if you can get them cheaper in europe... Had no luck. Thank you one more time for the info :)
@@snajperSLO I think it was about $2200 DDP for 16 to the UK
Think their labour fees were more than that!
Ahh Childs play. I have 128kW installed in my 4 bedroom house. Nice job though!
128kW or 128kWh ?
@@deang5622 My bad yes 128kWh. Just getting Lazy!
Why not, in this usecase because of the size of the solar array and battery storage, go for a semi-off grid system with an automatic failover switch? Seems like a waste when the power goes down and all you have are some extension leads...
Great video!!! Hugely envious of that instal! That’s exactly what I want to build at mine. The point you made on switching to battery in the event of power failure. Is there really no way if doing that in the same way a UPS system works? I’ve no interest in a Tesla battery.
TBH, i'm not sure why they didnt get a larger battery pack and then just go off grid if they dont want to export. I've got the final 3 of 6 SOK 100ah 48v batteries arriving today.... Gonna take the house off grid with 7kw solar and a transfer switch.
Nice neat install....one thing I noticed though, the DC cables feeding the inverter looked rather small for a possible 10KW inverter, I'd be a bit worried about that ?
depends on the panel voltage no ?
I can here to write the same comment. I have a Victron MP2 and it's only the 5kva model yet they recommended 70mm dc cables on a 48vdc system?
@@gug1970 yes it does. I "guess" we assumed the battery packs are 48vdc. Maybe they are much higher than that?
How much current can an MC4 connector carry?
@@elliot330 30A upto 1000V for european versions else 20A 600V
Here's a fantastic summary of that riveting video where we install the world's largest paperweight, I mean, home battery storage system. So, we've got this ginormous solar array, but 70% of the energy goes to waste - bummer, right? Well, fear not, we've got the solution! We'll slap a massive 23 kWh battery storage system into this house, so it can go almost off-grid. You'll be on the edge of your seat watching us lug around heavy equipment, struggle with mounting batteries, and complain about cold Greg's sandwiches.
We take you through the riveting process of measuring, marking, and installing the battery storage system - step by step. You'll witness the birth of 23 kWh of battery storage, made up of six modules and a BMS (the brain of the operation). Don't forget the 10 kW inverter, because you need to convert that DC power to AC for your house, duh!
We deal with pesky wall problems, making sure our battery babies are securely mounted, and install backup consumer units for those rare UK power cuts. And just when you think it can't get any more thrilling, we tackle cables and communications connections!
So grab a cup of tea (or 23,287 of them, thanks to our excess solar energy) and enjoy this electrifying waste of time. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and question your life choices.
For 3 phase R1- R2 test just test between all 3 phases it’ll only take an extra minute
And how much did it all cost
at the start jordan mentioned 1500 for each battery and theres 7 so just the batteries your looking at 10,500 .... then the cost of the rest of the system + install its perhaps in the region of 15-20k
Those batteries look as if they are linked in series. What happens when one fails? The connection cables don't look long enough to bypass a failed battery.
You would have to remove the failed battery then move all of the others up. The BMS module would also likely need adjusting for one less battery therefore lower voltage etc.
@@rgtsparky It would be nice if it could be configured to failover gracefully and automatically.
How hard could it be to install some high current contactors between the grid side and backup side to isolate the incoming tails, controlled by the grid side so it will switch the entire house to backup when the grid goes down.
Let them doing the first time experiment Jordan trying to do this experiment without any information because thinking how he will pay he’s employer’s at the end of the day
That's how auto start generators do it, with an Automatic Transfer Switch. So I'm sure it would work for these.
Yeah owner of the building must need to buy a Auto Start Generator
Now
They don't have enough battery capacity to feed the whole house for long.
23kWh of battery is only 1 hour of use at maximum load for a residential house (with 100amp main fuse and 230 volts).
In practise the house won't be operating at 23kW, but even if operating at 5kW, that's still only 4 hours of capacity from the batteries. It's not much if you're then having to wait for the next day of sunshine to recharge the batteries. In winter you might not get enough sun the next day.
So this really isn't a design that is suitable for off grid use, save for a few hours at a time. And grid power in this country is extremely reliable, so why bother with the huge expense of designing a system and having enough capacity to run for 24 hours or more?
Mega..... How much?
I installed 30kwh. Home use
I paid about $7000 for my DIY 25,700kwh system, with an 12kw inverter/charger.
Isn't a Tesla powerwall 5.8 kilowatt hours? I don't know if you can get Tesla powerwalls where you're at. I hope the ones that you're installing are really cheap
Personally when testing 3 phase circuits, I test R1+R2 on all phases because you want to check each end is continuous across each phase. Although you are proving only one phase you are assuming the other phases have been correctly manufactured. It’s unlikely to have a break but not impossible and have seen it happen. As artisans I expect you to do the same as you go the extra mile on everything. Not digging you out at all just how I do it and my view.
I can not believe that you would not test it, very strange comment from Jordan.
They might live test each phase
@@lewis94uk but you want to prove the conductors first before energising. skipping this is bad in my view, the whole point of the continuity test is to prove end to end of all conductors not just the earth....
18th edition requirement is to measure the earth - r1 +r2 only used to make it easier to measure the earth and also is a polarity check
@@anthonycampbell9807 Not required.
You are required to do R1+R2 test, assuming there is a neutral present, and if you do that for all phases, then you *are* proving the continuity.
And not only is it proving the continuity, it's measuring the resistance which determines the maximum current carry capability and so you are also verifying the current you expect the installation to be able to handle.
If the R1+R2 tests results in very high resistance, such as caused by a cable break, then you investigate and resolve.
Massive
Not true that Tesla power wall is only system to provide whole house support, Victron ESS and even the dreaded SMA have systems. SMA is dreaded because after 10 years of installing I fell out with them due to being appallingly let down.
Tesla is the only reliable one tbh
@@kobirelf97 PMSL- we got a comedian here lol
WOW
A cool pie from Greggs is a result of not paying VAT to the government on pies. If you want a warm pie expect to pay more for it.
Only thing with these, house fires will be a nightmare.
How so? They use LFP packs. LiFePo4 : lithium iron phosphate. The safest of the battery chemistry’s in use.
@@salibaba it can burn for days and water doesn't cool it well.
@@pauledwards9493 LFP packs like the ones in that system and many other home storage batteries are not liable to thermal runaway.
Once you add in an electric car 23kwh isn't much storage at all. That's about 80 miles on for a small electric car.
I wonder what these batteries run. Right you you can get about 25.6 kwh of storage for around $10k with rack, cables included (Current Connected)
Anyone know what these 23kwh would run in the UK?
5:39 It’s a pretty premium treat, but this doesn’t come close to the good o‘l Pringles times 😇
You don't get paid for the solar energy you provide for the grid? We had a great summer with a lot of customers having a 5-10c/kWh contract when they buy electricity but when selling the excess power back to the grid they were paid by NordPool and got paid around 30c/kWh at best
Yes, we have that here. We call it Feed-in tariff.
@@deang5622 how much do they pay?
@@justme5384 I have just looked it up and I don't believe the figures I am seeing.
The Feed-in tariff appears to be set by the government, and incredibly, ridiculously depends on the Energy Performance Certificate rating for the house/premises generating the electricity. The EPC is about how energy efficient your house is, how good the insulation is, whether you have double glazing for the windows.
How on earth should that affect how much the power company pays you for the electricity you generate? And what does it matter if the electricity you generate and sell to the grid is solar or wind? There are different rates for this too!
The way it is structured is complete nonsense. It's rigged.
But to answer you question, the feed in tariff seems to vary from close to zero to 5.99 pence per kWh.
Given the power companies can sell the electricity on for 34 pence per kWh at the moment, it's a rip-off.
If anyone is generating electricity by PV and feeding into the UK national grid that is getting a much higher feed-in tariff rate, then please comment and let us know when (what year) you started feeding in power to the grid, how much you are being paid per kWh, and what year your FIT scheme ends please.
I used to work at greggs I can tell you why no heat lamps , if greggs and other places kept food hot government have to put 20% on top of the prices same if you eat in government will charge 20% more
Battery connections: what is your experience regarding using a bussbar vs chaining the outputs?