Jordan, I would like to congratulate you once again as I did before in your recent videos, for not using clickbait titles or childish thumbnails. You were able to use a very good title and to include a bit of mystery as well by not divulging everything in your title. I totally respect this approach Jordan You are doing a fantastic job by listening and taking on board constructive feedback from those of us who value your work I wish you all the best!
Couple of suggestions Jordan, you can buy mc4 bungs that you can insert on the optimisers instead of taping them, for your cable entries you should always avoid piercing the felt just slide them up to the nearest overlap which easy to find, also cable entries on tiles i always a small piece of flexi conduit to protect from abbraision on tiles. also lining up your panels its easier to start at the bottom fit your first then string line across the bottom to the other side measuring up from bottom of roof. just fit another length of rail the far end to wrap string around then all panels will be straight. Then your top ones will be easier to fit also taking the weight from bottom panel while you get a couple of mid clamps to use as spacers. remove once clamped. Thought i would share some of my experience with you as your new to solar.. Keep up the good work guys
Had an emergency callout a few weeks back here in Norway. Was a frosty -26C. Real glad I got some new winter clothes from the company that actually keeps me warm this year :P Last year was misery.
If you want to keep the efficiency of the panels when it's snowing or ice, moisture, etc. Run trace wire around the perimeter of all the panels and then put the trace wire on a timer SL to frost state at 3⁰c
The argument could then be made up on earth solar panels as UK regulations do not have them require that it needs a thing in case that frost wire fails and that could become a complicated regulatory thing
Eddie currents are induced when the EM field changes which only happens when your DC circuit is first powered or when the current draw changes so it should be mostly fine in that regard.
@@jonnyf6932 Eddy currents are induced in conductors full stop, not just ferrous metals - drop a magnet down inside copper pipe if you want quick evidence.
@@intercity125 Faraday would of course agree and quite right to point that out as it’s a fundamental law. I think what he was trying to avoid was heat induction into the gland caused by Eddie currents where the conductors are separated. I should be more careful when commenting not to make simple statements that might be inaccurate or misleading in isolation of the context.
@@davidw460 No eddy currents assuming steady state dc, the magnetic field has to vary to induce currents into any electrically conductive material, only an issue with ac.
I'm so glad you address the induction loop problem, explain it and also show the solution. It's the #1 cause of ElectroMagnetic Interference caused by solar installations. So you're not only preventing the damage caused by the induction currents of lightning strikes but also prevent a lot of other problems most people don't even know they have. A lot of optimizers actually cause a lot of EMI and if you would have made an induction loop you basically create a medium wave jammer. By putting positive and negative wiring next to each other you minimize this effect although in my opinion they should be in a metal conduit which is properly bonded to the protective earth. Even though solar panels generate DC, the switching electronics in the main inverter and power optimizers make it from a high frequency perspective more or less a radio transmitter if not proper minimizing unwanted inductive and capacitive properties.
Yes bird protection is a must. I learned the hard way, However aesthetics aside, I prefer mesh as it allows more air flow to keep the panels from getting so warm in the summer and losing performance.
They allow plenty of space for airflow still as there is a gap of aground 20mm above and below - big enough for plenty of air but small enough to block pigeons
@@artisanelectrics 20mm is still a significant reduction in airflow compared to a mesh, on a hot day you need a lot of airflow to maintain performance. They should cut a nice hexagon/square grid pattern into those panels and it would improve them significantly whilst still removing potential nesting issues and improve the aesthetics.
@@TheGalifrey The bird protection that is black and looks like bristles looks pretty much as good as the solar skirts IMO, which although neat have a bit of a heavy stuck-on look.
Don't understand the need for a skirt. We have our whole roof pretty much covered with NO skirt, have plenty of wood pigeons and doves around but they don't go under our panels ... At least not in the five years we've lived here. If any wood pigeons managed to get under our panels they'd probably get stuck they are so fat! 🤣 A MUCH bigger issue is keeping pigeons away from tops of the panels as their crap takes ages to be washed off by even heavy rainfall.
Ha ha... we do everything The Artisan Way. Really! Like that ending🤪. Reminds me of when you did that 'Woodworking With Mother' video on how to hack a timber framed house about. 🤣
Have a look at a rubber tile replacement called Hook stop no need for messy tile cutting and any flex on the rail is absorbed by the rubber so no tile cracks!
Great presentation. Small note that push in blind grommets are removable without the use of key or a tool !! With a 20mm hole giving possible access to an inquiring finger.
Hi Jordan, great video mate! When installing those types of roof hooks from the renusol range, you can buy what’s called and Eric tile (solar slate plate) which the roof hook sits in, it replaces a tile that you take out to fit the roof hook. Saves a lot of time.
Here in Sweden two students started a company and targeted supermarkets for solar panels... And a few years past, they have a very successful company ! 🔥🔥🔥
My understanding is if power is direct current you don’t get the magnetic field you’d get from an AC 50Hz supply. If I’m wrong feel free to correct me 🥲 Great videos guys, very helpful
Could I ask you Jordan, why did you mount the hooks on battens rather than directly on the trusses? They looked high , or is it a different style for the flat tiles?
He did attach them to the trusses/joists, he just used a packing piece to raise the bracket to match the depth/height of the tiles, it mentions this in the Renusol guides, which is the brand of mounting system they use.
Hi guys. Sparky from Australia here. I can't believe the prices you quotes for solar over there. Here we work on around $1000 aud per kw for an entry level.system. Maybe around $1200aud per kw for mid range. Max around $1400aud per kw for a full on enphase micro inverter system. I have a Solar Edge 6.6kw system. 22 SE panels with DC optimisers and a 5kw SE inverter. Total was a touch under $10Kaud before govt incentives. My cost was just over $7000aud.
22:56 Since Eddy currents are the result of a changing magnetic field, which in turn can be the result of a changing current in a wire, they are mostly a concern in AC systems. For DC it would mean that you would need to have rapidly changing sun-power, which isn’t a thing (except if you live close to a windmill or moving trees, I guess … but even then it’s not as fast as 50Hz mains frequency current-change happens to be). However: If the inverter communication to the optimizers happens via powerline, then yes, there might be Eddy currents, even if they are weak, but it might mess up the communication. So … it depends 😅 But you would definitely not get these constant Eddy currents as you would have in a high load AC system, I guess and also in your case you plan to pass the respective in/out for negative and positive conductor through separate brass rings, which means, that the in/out currents are the same and of the opposite orientation, whereby the magnetic fields cancel out each other :)
Also not an issue as the metal bits the wire goes thru are not ferromagnetic. Induction heating problems come when groupings of AC wires are all the same phase and thus have the same magnetic field, which in turn magnetizes the metal bits *that completely surround each grouping of wires* alternately on each half cycle. The hysteresis losses (each alternate magnetization takes energy to reorient the magnetic domains in the steel or ductile iron that such bits are made of and this reorientation happens each half cycle) are what cause the heating problems.
Strictly it both is and isn't eddy currents. More important is "Is the bush or enclosure ferromagnetic" e.g. steel. NOT "is it metal" With AC, (and with a ferromagnetic bush or enclosure), you will get an alternating magnetic field - it is like putting a single turn choke inline! You should not get those fields with brass (nonmagnetic) bush. Because brass is nonmagnetic, there is no more magnetic field induced than in air or plastic, so in turn, no eddy currents. An alternating field in the steel would cause eddy currents within the steel (like the secondary of a transformer, but shorted out) and so heat it up (why transformer cores are laminated- it stops the internal eddy currents). With DC, there would be a field (and so secondary eddy currents) induced only for microseconds when you switch on or off an isolator, otherwise nothing with steady or slowly changing DC.
great video as always. A question from a German PV owner. As you really go above and beyond for great looks (e.g. the skirting against birds). Why don't you use black anodised rails? I find the silver poking out between the all black panels at bit... distracting when the sun glints off it between the panels)
@@lewis94uk Ok. Just wondering because the pidgeon protection they use will also be more dear than chicken wire... and the total cost of the rails is pretty small compared to the rest.
Can’t wait to see the Libbi install! We’re moving in to a house with solar and want to add Eddi and Libbi plus extra solar PV when we’re in. Would love for you guys to quote but based Worcestershire 😢
What about the airflow under the panels when you add the solar skirt? Keeping the panels cool (especially in summer) is important for efficiency and longevity.
Came here to say this! Removing heat from the panels is extremely important. Your panel specs will contain information about temperature coefficient - panels can lose even 0.5% for every degree above 25C. I have a wire mesh around mines and honestly it doesn't look that bad - definitely not worth losing 1-2kWh on a hot, summer day.
@@JakubKonecki I'd love to see a solar panel / water heater combination. Using the thermal energy of a solar panel to heat up water by keeping a circulation going through the lot.
On such a small array it would have no effect on thermal build up or loss of efficiency, would be concerned more about birds nesting and biting through the cables, fault finding takes a while and might have to pull up all the panels!
The solid metal may prevent solar panels from cooling properly they may run 10 - 20°C hotter. The 10°C coller panel results in 5% more power and 1% less they degrade every year. I would measure if in summer they operate below 50°C is fine, over 70°C is alarming. I would prefer the same metal being perforated with 4mm holes for example. I saw great video latelly on this topic from TechIngredients YT channel about boosting PV efficieny with better ventilation of panels.
Is this grid tied? Or completely off grid? Curious with grid tied systems in the UK do you power inductive loads on the utility?.(separated from the solar/inverter system)
I really like the look of those skirts my question is ventilation under the panels specially in full sun on a hot day could they potentially reduce efficiency of the panel if there getting so hot ?
How did you go off-grid though. Just installed 57 panel Solaredge system, with new inverters but the Home Backup kit isn’t available until Q3, so when power goes off, so do the inverters, regardless of how much is in the batteries?
Great video Jordan & Team - do you put Denso Tape or waterproof wrap over the DC plugs and jacks, similar to the wrap supplied with some antenna jacks ?
One noteworthy thing is it’s quite bright sometimes when he’s up there even on a not particularly sunny day so before they are comments about things like solar panels don’t work without sun it will have a reduced amount and direct full sunny date but you just plan into the calculations
Bloody good job that customer has such a humungous garage as there seemed to be a lot of kit/complexity in there, even without his batteries arriving. Might sound stupid but is there a correct order to starting up/shutting down all of that stuff?
As a Hungarian electrician, I was wondering why you had to drill two more holes on the other side of the DC isolators rather than flipping the inside isolator upside down?
Great video thanks. Would be good to see what the simulated output was in order to be 'off grid', and also what the real output is like on a winters day.
Pigeons... I learned a trick Not all Pigeons are the same. Wood Pigeons (White Necks) won't go under the panels. They nest in Bushes and Trees. Rock Pigeons (Feral Pigeons - Green Purple Necks) are hole seekers. It's these Pigeons that will go under your panels, nesting, breeding, dying... they're very territorial and will absolutely make a mess. Type you see in the City. We have Wood Pigeons around us, they'll sit on the roof, walk about... but never go under them. This knowledge passed on to me by an ornithologist saved me thousands. If you're unsure... walk about your area and see other neighbours panels. If theirs is clear.... so will yours.
Aren't solar panels really sensitive to temperature though? Less on an issue in the UK I guess but you would want a nice perforated grill if you ask me.
Hi, I don't believe there will be eddy currents on DC, but also there would not be any on AC because you said you has brass bushings which are non-ferrous.
You can get PVC Bush and couplings which alleviate and Eddy current worries. Obviously that only applies if your containment is all PVC not steel. The IET does have an article on Eddy currents in non ferrous materials. I will admit I haven’t read it fully yet. It’s out there on the Gargle.
There is enoungh air gap between the inverter and the garage ceiling? For huaweii inverters it should be 30cm... I wonder if solar edge needs less space around it for cooling.
Instead of drilling more holes in the back box, for the isolator switch, and plugging the wrong ones, why did you just not undo the switch from what looked like a DIN rail in the housing and turn it round - the back box looked symmetrical?
Actually, eddy currents will be generated in any conductive material. There is a classic physics demonstration which involved dropping a bar magnet down a hollow copper pipe (a non-ferrous conductive material): As the magnet is pulled down by gravity, the magnetic field time-variations caused by changing magnet position induce eddy currents in the copper pipe. These eddy currents flowing in the copper pipe generate magnetic fields which are in opposition to the fields of the falling magnet, impeding its falling speed under the effects of gravity. The end result is that the magnet takes several seconds to fall though the copper pipe. Quite a convincing demonstration.
25:20 the isolators are labelled "top panels" and "bottom panels". Earlier Jordan mentioned the panels would be split into 1+4 and 2+3. Worth double checking ...
@@grahamek86 in the design they're on the middle of the page but that's a flat drawing of a sloped roof. If you stand on the ground and looks at the panels, you see line 1 closest to the ground, then 2 above it, then the apex of the roof, then on the other side 3, then below it 4. 1 and 4 are below (in 3d space) 2 and 3
from what I understand isn't it prohibited by inverter manufacturers to mix panels of different orientations? like in this sense you created one string comprised of panels on 2 different orientations (east and west)
You put so many parts on the wall, such as Modbus modules an separator switches and so on. Wouldn't it be cleaner, safer and cheaper to mount all these parts into a cabinet? You can build and test that cabinet in a nice warm workshop. Better for your health as well.
That looks afantastic job, but no doubt very expensive. I can't help but wonder how many years of mains electricity you could have paid for with the same amount of money.
Nicely done. But I have some remarks. Why use optimizers? They will break after 6 years (after the warranty period of 5 years?). Replacing them is very costly due to opening up the panels on the roof. I would not have used them at all when there is no shadow. In addition, I did not see any grounding of the panels (including eloxyide piercing tabs). Does the UK have any laws about proper grounding? Why did you not use the PE connectors on the overvoltage protection devices? Also, please do use heat shink tube with a melting insert. Not the cheap stuff as you have shown. Anyway nice video despite some shortcomings.
@@Stugadget I read the following on reddit "We're seeing about a 20x higher failure rate on our P300/P320 optimizers compared to our IQ7/IQ7+. We have installed several thousand optimizers and about 2,000 IQ-micros, and in those ~2,000 IQs, we have had one failure. One. Our failure rate on SolarEdge optimizers is about 1 in 50." Perhaps you can google it?
@@Mr1Spring I think the warranty period on SolarEdge optimisers is 25 years. I believe I've heard that we do not have grounding laws and that that is unusual. I feel like there may be some reasoning for it, possibly lightning.
@@RichardABW That would be strange, during our MCS assessment, the assessor asked what reading i got between the inverter and rails. I always wire an earth loop, take a leg to the first rail, link between rails and then a leg back to the inverter. One leg connects directly to the inverter, the other is mounted suitably close so that a continuity test is easy. Im not sure on whether this is a requirement by MCS or a regulation or best practice or manufacturer installation instruction ???
Solar panels work better when cooler, are you not worried that the solar skirts will restrict airflow to the underside of the panels? the mesh allows good air flow. :)
DC does have a magnetic field therefore I presume that eddy currents must be a real thing on DC circuits if you cables through separate slots but you can slice a slot between each hole to prevent that happening
Become a channel member to watch Another crazy week - Fixing problems and Artisan Defrosting 🧊- ruclips.net/video/9Ri9X0QkbZ4/видео.html
Check out Solar Limpets they are roof hooks that eliminate the need to cut tiles :)
Thanks Jordan. A shame that you didn't record that part. 😉
This must cost a fortune
Jordan, I would like to congratulate you once again as I did before in your recent videos, for not using clickbait titles or childish thumbnails.
You were able to use a very good title and to include a bit of mystery as well by not divulging everything in your title.
I totally respect this approach Jordan
You are doing a fantastic job by listening and taking on board constructive feedback from those of us who value your work
I wish you all the best!
OPEN MOUTH SYNDROME
its youtube, click bait is part of it.
Couple of suggestions Jordan, you can buy mc4 bungs that you can insert on the optimisers instead of taping them, for your cable entries you should always avoid piercing the felt just slide them up to the nearest overlap which easy to find, also cable entries on tiles i always a small piece of flexi conduit to protect from abbraision on tiles. also lining up your panels its easier to start at the bottom fit your first then string line across the bottom to the other side measuring up from bottom of roof. just fit another length of rail the far end to wrap string around then all panels will be straight. Then your top ones will be easier to fit also taking the weight from bottom panel while you get a couple of mid clamps to use as spacers. remove once clamped.
Thought i would share some of my experience with you as your new to solar..
Keep up the good work guys
Had an emergency callout a few weeks back here in Norway. Was a frosty -26C. Real glad I got some new winter clothes from the company that actually keeps me warm this year :P Last year was misery.
If you want to keep the efficiency of the panels when it's snowing or ice, moisture, etc. Run trace wire around the perimeter of all the panels and then put the trace wire on a timer SL to frost state at 3⁰c
The argument could then be made up on earth solar panels as UK regulations do not have them require that it needs a thing in case that frost wire fails and that could become a complicated regulatory thing
Eddie currents are induced when the EM field changes which only happens when your DC circuit is first powered or when the current draw changes so it should be mostly fine in that regard.
Also can’t be induced in brass as only ferrous metals will be affected.
@@jonnyf6932 Eddy currents are induced in conductors full stop, not just ferrous metals - drop a magnet down inside copper pipe if you want quick evidence.
@@intercity125 Faraday would of course agree and quite right to point that out as it’s a fundamental law. I think what he was trying to avoid was heat induction into the gland caused by Eddie currents where the conductors are separated. I should be more careful when commenting not to make simple statements that might be inaccurate or misleading in isolation of the context.
BS7671 regs prohibiting single conductor entry are for ferrous metal and AC, iirc :)
@@davidw460 No eddy currents assuming steady state dc, the magnetic field has to vary to induce currents into any electrically conductive material, only an issue with ac.
I'm so glad you address the induction loop problem, explain it and also show the solution. It's the #1 cause of ElectroMagnetic Interference caused by solar installations. So you're not only preventing the damage caused by the induction currents of lightning strikes but also prevent a lot of other problems most people don't even know they have. A lot of optimizers actually cause a lot of EMI and if you would have made an induction loop you basically create a medium wave jammer. By putting positive and negative wiring next to each other you minimize this effect although in my opinion they should be in a metal conduit which is properly bonded to the protective earth.
Even though solar panels generate DC, the switching electronics in the main inverter and power optimizers make it from a high frequency perspective more or less a radio transmitter if not proper minimizing unwanted inductive and capacitive properties.
Yes bird protection is a must. I learned the hard way, However aesthetics aside, I prefer mesh as it allows more air flow to keep the panels from getting so warm in the summer and losing performance.
Yes, no airflow is approximately 10% less yield. Going to be an oven under the panels in the summer.
They allow plenty of space for airflow still as there is a gap of aground 20mm above and below - big enough for plenty of air but small enough to block pigeons
@@artisanelectrics 20mm is still a significant reduction in airflow compared to a mesh, on a hot day you need a lot of airflow to maintain performance. They should cut a nice hexagon/square grid pattern into those panels and it would improve them significantly whilst still removing potential nesting issues and improve the aesthetics.
@@TheGalifrey The bird protection that is black and looks like bristles looks pretty much as good as the solar skirts IMO, which although neat have a bit of a heavy stuck-on look.
Don't understand the need for a skirt. We have our whole roof pretty much covered with NO skirt, have plenty of wood pigeons and doves around but they don't go under our panels ... At least not in the five years we've lived here.
If any wood pigeons managed to get under our panels they'd probably get stuck they are so fat! 🤣
A MUCH bigger issue is keeping pigeons away from tops of the panels as their crap takes ages to be washed off by even heavy rainfall.
It’s great to see how far the company & the production have progressed.
Ending of the video. Top notch 👌
Ha ha... we do everything The Artisan Way. Really!
Like that ending🤪.
Reminds me of when you did that 'Woodworking With Mother' video on how to hack a timber framed house about. 🤣
If you guys need to avoid induction loops, try leap-frogging the optimizers. Saves some wire management as well.
Have a look at a rubber tile replacement called Hook stop no need for messy tile cutting and any flex on the rail is absorbed by the rubber so no tile cracks!
Great presentation. Small note that push in blind grommets are removable without the use of key or a tool !! With a 20mm hole giving possible access to an inquiring finger.
🤔you would have to be a tool to do that though 😀
@@kevinpickett7249 children often don't know the difference tool or not. 🙂
As always love you all
Top jobs you do ❤❤❤❤
Hi Jordan, great video mate! When installing those types of roof hooks from the renusol range, you can buy what’s called and Eric tile (solar slate plate) which the roof hook sits in, it replaces a tile that you take out to fit the roof hook. Saves a lot of time.
that is good point,
Actual diagrams would be a nice bonus on these great videos!
Beautiful job as always.. keep going artisans.. all the best
Good to see you are using Tracer long reach pencils ✅
They are good.
Here in Sweden two students started a company and targeted supermarkets for solar panels... And a few years past, they have a very successful company ! 🔥🔥🔥
Love the quality of your work!
My understanding is if power is direct current you don’t get the magnetic field you’d get from an AC 50Hz supply.
If I’m wrong feel free to correct me 🥲
Great videos guys, very helpful
Yep, it’s the changing magnetic field that will induce eddy currents, although ripple on the DC will cause them, but hopefully very limited.
fantastic video gents top work great workmanship and team work 👍
Could I ask you Jordan, why did you mount the hooks on battens rather than directly on the trusses? They looked high , or is it a different style for the flat tiles?
I thought he screwed directly into the trusses. He called them joists when he did it.
He did attach them to the trusses/joists, he just used a packing piece to raise the bracket to match the depth/height of the tiles, it mentions this in the Renusol guides, which is the brand of mounting system they use.
Would imagine the solar skirt would be better than the usual mesh for reducing the dynamic load too with wind gusts etc.
Good and fast approach to work I appreciate
Hello Jordon good work and neat it is worth to have solar panels in here hard to get sun it needs think twice before a hand thanks
Great video, thanks. Do you still need DC isolation and surge protection with a solar edge invertor, I was told they had surge protection inbuilt?
Ni need for DC Isolation with an inverter that had built in DC isolator
Loved the video! Couldn’t you have just taken the inside of the isolator from dim rail and turn it around instead of drilling holes?
Din rail .
Where do you get the little labels that you slide onto the cables? Like on your data cables etc. Make it real nice and neat. Thanks
Heat-strink for Dyno label printers
good and fast and not cheap but you drilled the holes in the bottum when it should of been in the top ?
Hi guys. Sparky from Australia here. I can't believe the prices you quotes for solar over there. Here we work on around $1000 aud per kw for an entry level.system. Maybe around $1200aud per kw for mid range. Max around $1400aud per kw for a full on enphase micro inverter system. I have a Solar Edge 6.6kw system. 22 SE panels with DC optimisers and a 5kw SE inverter. Total was a touch under $10Kaud before govt incentives. My cost was just over $7000aud.
It's about 2500 euros a kw in Ireland before any subsidies. And 1000 a kw for batteries. A basic 2.4kw system would be 7 to 8 thousand euros.
can you show use how you do the stringline thing to get the panels straight please
When did the DC wiring colours change?? all I can find is Red/Black unless a 3 wire system (+v 0 -v) then 0v is white.
Great video. Im looking to do the same, but have always shide away from doing it myself. Not anymore.
22:56 Since Eddy currents are the result of a changing magnetic field, which in turn can be the result of a changing current in a wire, they are mostly a concern in AC systems.
For DC it would mean that you would need to have rapidly changing sun-power, which isn’t a thing (except if you live close to a windmill or moving trees, I guess … but even then it’s not as fast as 50Hz mains frequency current-change happens to be).
However: If the inverter communication to the optimizers happens via powerline, then yes, there might be Eddy currents, even if they are weak, but it might mess up the communication.
So … it depends 😅
But you would definitely not get these constant Eddy currents as you would have in a high load AC system, I guess and also in your case you plan to pass the respective in/out for negative and positive conductor through separate brass rings, which means, that the in/out currents are the same and of the opposite orientation, whereby the magnetic fields cancel out each other :)
Generally Eddie currents are not an issue with DC.
Also not an issue as the metal bits the wire goes thru are not ferromagnetic. Induction heating problems come when groupings of AC wires are all the same phase and thus have the same magnetic field, which in turn magnetizes the metal bits *that completely surround each grouping of wires* alternately on each half cycle. The hysteresis losses (each alternate magnetization takes energy to reorient the magnetic domains in the steel or ductile iron that such bits are made of and this reorientation happens each half cycle) are what cause the heating problems.
Regardless of AC or DC 100s of amps are required for thermal effects from eddy currents .
Beat me to it. 100%. Need serious current flow before worrying about effects of eddy currents
Strictly it both is and isn't eddy currents. More important is "Is the bush or enclosure ferromagnetic" e.g. steel. NOT "is it metal"
With AC, (and with a ferromagnetic bush or enclosure), you will get an alternating magnetic field - it is like putting a single turn choke inline!
You should not get those fields with brass (nonmagnetic) bush. Because brass is nonmagnetic, there is no more magnetic field induced than in air or plastic, so in turn, no eddy currents.
An alternating field in the steel would cause eddy currents within the steel (like the secondary of a transformer, but shorted out) and so heat it up (why transformer cores are laminated- it stops the internal eddy currents).
With DC, there would be a field (and so secondary eddy currents) induced only for microseconds when you switch on or off an isolator, otherwise nothing with steady or slowly changing DC.
great video as always. A question from a German PV owner. As you really go above and beyond for great looks (e.g. the skirting against birds).
Why don't you use black anodised rails? I find the silver poking out between the all black panels at bit... distracting when the sun glints off it between the panels)
They cost 25% more which most people will just not pay for
@@lewis94uk Ok. Just wondering because the pidgeon protection they use will also be more dear than chicken wire... and the total cost of the rails is pretty small compared to the rest.
@@torstenpierro9279 yeah one of those things probably cost the manufacturer nothing really more to do but they sell it high as a premium product.
@@lewis94uk I think this customer would have paid!
Really interesting and very impressive. Thanks!
How mutch would an install like this cost?
Can’t wait to see the Libbi install! We’re moving in to a house with solar and want to add Eddi and Libbi plus extra solar PV when we’re in. Would love for you guys to quote but based Worcestershire 😢
@Matt Walton - I'm sure they'll be happy to charge you mileage on top of their quotation!! ;-)
What about the airflow under the panels when you add the solar skirt? Keeping the panels cool (especially in summer) is important for efficiency and longevity.
good point but I dont think its fully sealed, the wind can get through
Came here to say this! Removing heat from the panels is extremely important. Your panel specs will contain information about temperature coefficient - panels can lose even 0.5% for every degree above 25C. I have a wire mesh around mines and honestly it doesn't look that bad - definitely not worth losing 1-2kWh on a hot, summer day.
@@JakubKonecki it's ok they just won't tell the customer 😂
Chicken wire all the way. You do get panels that are inbuilt to the roof so likely ok…. Hopefully the skirt makers do insurance….
@@JakubKonecki I'd love to see a solar panel / water heater combination. Using the thermal energy of a solar panel to heat up water by keeping a circulation going through the lot.
Hi can you tell me where I can buy the foam roller you had attached to the ladder to protect the pv panel ?
Are there any drawbacks on the solar skirt. Ie increased thermals as lower wind/ breeze acting as cooling?
On such a small array it would have no effect on thermal build up or loss of efficiency, would be concerned more about birds nesting and biting through the cables, fault finding takes a while and might have to pull up all the panels!
DC shouldn’t cause eddy currents, that’s due to (rapidly) changing currents in the cables.
True it's due to a changing magnetic field induced by an alternating current
Just finished watching Cory's video about solar panels now watching this one 😂
Good. Fast. Cheap. Pick any two.
You could go trough the overlap in the plastic in stead of poking a hole in the guys under roofing
The solid metal may prevent solar panels from cooling properly they may run 10 - 20°C hotter. The 10°C coller panel results in 5% more power and 1% less they degrade every year. I would measure if in summer they operate below 50°C is fine, over 70°C is alarming.
I would prefer the same metal being perforated with 4mm holes for example. I saw great video latelly on this topic from TechIngredients YT channel about boosting PV efficieny with better ventilation of panels.
Is this grid tied? Or completely off grid? Curious with grid tied systems in the UK do you power inductive loads on the utility?.(separated from the solar/inverter system)
Hi Jordan, what was the din rail box you used for the surge protection devices and Wago topjobs? Seems perfect but cant find it!
I really like the look of those skirts my question is ventilation under the panels specially in full sun on a hot day could they potentially reduce efficiency of the panel if there getting so hot ?
How did you go off-grid though. Just installed 57 panel Solaredge system, with new inverters but the Home Backup kit isn’t available until Q3, so when power goes off, so do the inverters, regardless of how much is in the batteries?
How do you size the Surge Protection Device?
I was looking forward to the end of the vid until I got to the end of the vid!
Great video Jordan & Team - do you put Denso Tape or waterproof wrap over the DC plugs and jacks, similar to the wrap supplied with some antenna jacks ?
Not needed they are fully ip rated
One noteworthy thing is it’s quite bright sometimes when he’s up there even on a not particularly sunny day so before they are comments about things like solar panels don’t work without sun it will have a reduced amount and direct full sunny date but you just plan into the calculations
Does solar skirt also assist with any heat mitigation under the solar panels?
Bloody good job that customer has such a humungous garage as there seemed to be a lot of kit/complexity in there, even without his batteries arriving. Might sound stupid but is there a correct order to starting up/shutting down all of that stuff?
no, you need a current variation (AC) in the wires to get eddy currents - see the wikipedia article for more information
As a Hungarian electrician, I was wondering why you had to drill two more holes on the other side of the DC isolators rather than flipping the inside isolator upside down?
I had unsubscribed just before Christmas as I felt the videos were heading away from why I joined in the first place. Good video, resubbed😁
Sorry if you mentioned this later than where I'm up to, but what orientation and pitch is the roof please?
Would there be an induction loop problem if you had gone along and back to connect 16 panels on one side? My panel layout is looking similar to this.
Great video thanks. Would be good to see what the simulated output was in order to be 'off grid', and also what the real output is like on a winters day.
Should see how Australia do their installs.
Eddy currents shouldn't be an issue at all. I don't think you get a large and fast enough current swing via your Solar Panels.
Why did you go for microinverters on this install?
What software did you use to map out the electrical equipment plan seen at 5:50? Great idea!
Canva 👍
How? 😂
Pigeons... I learned a trick
Not all Pigeons are the same. Wood Pigeons (White Necks) won't go under the panels. They nest in Bushes and Trees.
Rock Pigeons (Feral Pigeons - Green Purple Necks) are hole seekers. It's these Pigeons that will go under your panels, nesting, breeding, dying... they're very territorial and will absolutely make a mess. Type you see in the City.
We have Wood Pigeons around us, they'll sit on the roof, walk about... but never go under them. This knowledge passed on to me by an ornithologist saved me thousands.
If you're unsure... walk about your area and see other neighbours panels. If theirs is clear.... so will yours.
Aren't solar panels really sensitive to temperature though?
Less on an issue in the UK I guess but you would want a nice perforated grill if you ask me.
Hi, I don't believe there will be eddy currents on DC, but also there would not be any on AC because you said you has brass bushings which are non-ferrous.
How long is the roi? Especially with current prices.
You can get PVC Bush and couplings which alleviate and Eddy current worries. Obviously that only applies if your containment is all PVC not steel. The IET does have an article on Eddy currents in non ferrous materials. I will admit I haven’t read it fully yet. It’s out there on the Gargle.
Thats a bit much wobble in the rail there @ 18:41 , are you exceding the Renusol 300mm recommended overhang there lads? LOL
It's oscillation of magnetic fields that create eddie currents
4:53 Did the bricklayer get bored of straight lines after building the house? 😂 Fair player to them, must have taken some effort to build that wall.
Jesus I always say up there for thinking down there for dancing with my grandad, did not expect to hear it "in the wild"
There is enoungh air gap between the inverter and the garage ceiling? For huaweii inverters it should be 30cm... I wonder if solar edge needs less space around it for cooling.
Instead of drilling more holes in the back box, for the isolator switch, and plugging the wrong ones, why did you just not undo the switch from what looked like a DIN rail in the housing and turn it round - the back box looked symmetrical?
Why did you go with microinvertor system?
Meter seal fairy appears to be waving her wand @ 19:01 :D
No problem with eddy currents. Your conductors aren’t separated by ferromagnetic material..plastic trunking and plastic enclosure..
Are they not using the Libbi built in Hybrid inverter? Or is the solaredge control leading into the Libbi PV inputs?
Or...is solaredge superior and necessary due to the specifics of the east west string arrangement and possible shading issues?
What is the pay back time on a system like this
Eddie currents only happen on ferromagnetic enclosures, Brass isn't magnetic so as far as i'm aware there wouldn't be an issue.
Actually, eddy currents will be generated in any conductive material. There is a classic physics demonstration which involved dropping a bar magnet down a hollow copper pipe (a non-ferrous conductive material): As the magnet is pulled down by gravity, the magnetic field time-variations caused by changing magnet position induce eddy currents in the copper pipe. These eddy currents flowing in the copper pipe generate magnetic fields which are in opposition to the fields of the falling magnet, impeding its falling speed under the effects of gravity. The end result is that the magnet takes several seconds to fall though the copper pipe. Quite a convincing demonstration.
25:20 the isolators are labelled "top panels" and "bottom panels". Earlier Jordan mentioned the panels would be split into 1+4 and 2+3. Worth double checking ...
"top" = 2+3 because they're nearer the top of the roof
"bottom" = 1+4 because they're nearer the ground 👍
@@JamesScholesUK they're not though. 2+3 are in the middle, 1+4 are top and bottom.
@@grahamek86 only on the design, not in the real world
@@JamesScholesUK I'm just going by what the video said. If that's different, then it still needs correcting.
@@grahamek86 in the design they're on the middle of the page but that's a flat drawing of a sloped roof. If you stand on the ground and looks at the panels, you see line 1 closest to the ground, then 2 above it, then the apex of the roof, then on the other side 3, then below it 4. 1 and 4 are below (in 3d space) 2 and 3
😂 that ending…
08:10 Nice Architects Drawing
What was the point why you split each string to both sides of the roof?
Induction loop every day is a school day
from what I understand isn't it prohibited by inverter manufacturers to mix panels of different orientations? like in this sense you created one string comprised of panels on 2 different orientations (east and west)
You put so many parts on the wall, such as Modbus modules an separator switches and so on. Wouldn't it be cleaner, safer and cheaper to mount all these parts into a cabinet? You can build and test that cabinet in a nice warm workshop. Better for your health as well.
That looks afantastic job, but no doubt very expensive. I can't help but wonder how many years of mains electricity you could have paid for with the same amount of money.
Nicely done. But I have some remarks.
Why use optimizers? They will break after 6 years (after the warranty period of 5 years?). Replacing them is very costly due to opening up the panels on the roof. I would not have used them at all when there is no shadow.
In addition, I did not see any grounding of the panels (including eloxyide piercing tabs). Does the UK have any laws about proper grounding?
Why did you not use the PE connectors on the overvoltage protection devices?
Also, please do use heat shink tube with a melting insert. Not the cheap stuff as you have shown.
Anyway nice video despite some shortcomings.
Where is your evidence that they break after 6 years ?
@@Stugadget I read the following on reddit "We're seeing about a 20x higher failure rate on our P300/P320 optimizers compared to our IQ7/IQ7+. We have installed several thousand optimizers and about 2,000 IQ-micros, and in those ~2,000 IQs, we have had one failure. One. Our failure rate on SolarEdge optimizers is about 1 in 50."
Perhaps you can google it?
@@Mr1Spring I think the warranty period on SolarEdge optimisers is 25 years. I believe I've heard that we do not have grounding laws and that that is unusual. I feel like there may be some reasoning for it, possibly lightning.
@@RichardABW That would be strange, during our MCS assessment, the assessor asked what reading i got between the inverter and rails. I always wire an earth loop, take a leg to the first rail, link between rails and then a leg back to the inverter. One leg connects directly to the inverter, the other is mounted suitably close so that a continuity test is easy. Im not sure on whether this is a requirement by MCS or a regulation or best practice or manufacturer installation instruction ???
How much would a system like this cost installed?
What does an install like this cost in total?
In the middle of solar course so still learning but what software do you guys use to design projects?
The Grinder app is good
8:35 solarEdge design tool ?
were the panels and/or rails earthed?
Earthing the panels is not required in the UK
R Knot the 'Panels' "Double Insulated"
Solar panels work better when cooler, are you not worried that the solar skirts will restrict airflow to the underside of the panels? the mesh allows good air flow. :)
Was that the meter box you said John was doing but was sick at the time. Lee made a nice job of it
What is the maximum voltage dc for the solar edge inverter single phase?
They can do 200% DC oversizing now.
DC does have a magnetic field therefore I presume that eddy currents must be a real thing on DC circuits if you cables through separate slots but you can slice a slot between each hole to prevent that happening