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I wish none of it had been made. The newer “woke” stories actually tarnish the older established lore. I wouldn’t have had so many issues with it if they hadn’t tried to tie everyone and everything back to the other series.. if you have to remind me of the previous better series all the time it just reminds me how bad this current show is.. Star Trek needs to be allowed to die.
Discovery season 2 temporarily saved the franchise. Discovery alone was horrible. Season 1, Season 3 - terrible stopped watching the franchise. Picard season 1 was terrible. I'd seen enough. I don't care about the franchise anymore. It isn't Star Trek. Ironically, Oroville is doing a better job at Trek stories than Paramount, and Oroville ain't that great.
We now have Lower Decks! Of course I'm happy! (Which was inspired, surely, by The Orville, but it's a self-parody. That's awesome!) Mike McMahon (sp?) RULES! RITOS! I am getting another tee-shirt. 😁 Some things are unpredictable. P.S. -- Not crazy about Prodigy. It's for kids and I'm not a kid - and I don't really like that style of animation. With Lower Decks, it's almost like watching live action, not animation. It's wondrous! So, without new Trek, it wouldn't exist. I like SNWs.
Do I wish it had never been made no. Do I wish Brian Fuller wasn't signed on as showrunner yes absolutely. The ONLY good thing to come out of Discovery is SNW. That's it. The CBS CEO knew it was going to piss off fans and too make matters worse CBS shut down all fan films. To push Brian Fuller's vision of the future not Gene Roddenberry's. This is the second time Star Trek has been used to launch something. Voyager premiered to launch UPN and Discovery premiered to launch CBS all access. The key is to give fans what they want not piss them off give them a cheap knock off and say like it or watch Star Trek fade away. 🤔
I was deeply disappointed in and despised how CBS treated fan film makers and Klingon language schools and hid Star Trek behind a paywall. Those people kept Trek alive when no Trek was being produced. It's a great way to kill a franchise.
So true Disney did it with star wars declared all the books non canon, and then proceeded to mine those stories which is good but still a little crappy. Games Workshop of Warhammer40k fame did it too to all the creative animators, which is the lifeblood of franchises
I was a fan of Star Trek Continues and was devastated when they and other fan made series were shut down and replaced with Discovery. A series that IS NOT in keeping with Gene Roddenberry's hopeful vision of the future and instead, as highlighted by this video the vision of Fuller.
I have a case where CBS spies stole a character from our friends fan game they stole and used for Picard season one. It wasnt actually copyrighted but come on already
"Michelle Yeoh...a rising star". Perhaps to us Western audiences, but she's been a big star for several years in Asia. I think Western audiences first saw her in CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON in 2000, where she was one of the three main leads. She also starred in MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA (2005) and GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY VOL. 2 (2017). She's certainly a celebrity in her native Malaysia.
Indeed, Yeoh, Michelle had been an established film star in Malaysia and elsewhere in the "Milk Tea" region by the time she co-starred with Pierce Brosnan in Bond #18 (1997).
@@jlomesou Likewise. TBH while The Orville has a few issues, I'm just thankful the writers have a better grounding in SciFi and are willing to really go for character drama over tense situations. It's like NuTrek's writers are a bunch of 30 year olds who have only seen big franchise movies in cinema. So far there has been only one based on a script... and that was a short story. The writers need to go where DS9's Duet went when they adapted 'Man in the Glass Booth'. They took that story and adapted it to their world where the actors did the work, instead of a writer trying to figure out how to make their characters explain it all.
True true. I like discovery for the first two seasons then after that it’s like most of the crew does whatever they want to do despite whatever the captain ordered. Which they all have all their little agendas and then even the captain thinks she doesn’t have to listen to Admirals or anybody with authority. She puts her boyfriend more important than the ship. I don’t know where this is going but I don’t think I’m going to continue.
@@DRINKERSBALDHEAD that's not what people hate about new track. New track is dark and torturous and painful and unenjoyable to watch. There is no hope, no optimism, no idealism. It's Star Trek in name only. There's no reason that diversity and inclusion and good storytelling and Canon respectful plots can't coexist.
I'm one of those First Trek fans. I was 9 and totally captivated when ToS came into being. I've been one of those who did the conventions (still do, just did a panel at Comicpaloosa), collected stuff, wrote fanzine material and generally pined for the show when it went off in 1968. I was a founding member of Starbase Amarillo in the early 1980s. I once had one of the "footie pajamas" uniforms from ST-The Motion Picture. I've been a fan of the movies (even the reboot, it's just an alternate timeline.) I was ok with Next Gen, it took me a while to like it but it was good to see the Federation back in the universe. I thought DS9 was ok, it grew on me as it went on (Quark is still the epitome of unbridled capitalism and I can't count how many times I've thought "he's Ferengi" in life.) I've never warmed to Captain Janeway and Voyager, it was just not really Trek to me. I watched, but not avidly. It was Enterprise that caught my attention and made me love what the new shows were doing. Archer was brilliant, the show felt like it belonged in the Trek universe. Moonves totally underestimated fandom. The paywall stopped me from watching anything, even my beloved Trek. It was very, very obvious that he and CBS didn't respect us, all they wanted was money. My thought on it was "it's not going to be Trek and I'm not paying for it." I could see what was happening. And yes, I'm not of the "young watcher" generation, but I'm someone who has kept up with technology, and had been streaming since it was new. I could see the difference in what CBS was doing and wasn't going to be taken in by their "shiny new Trek" thing. I didn't go up to watch until it became Paramount + and had shown a willingness to not just see fans as money machines. We started watching during Covid lockdown, we've caught up with the series they have. Even Discovery. Not the greatest fan until they moved into the far future. It's grown on me. Picard is different, not bad, just harder to recognize as "Trek." Feels like a retirement sendoff, which I can understand. But I LOVE Strange New Worlds. It's got the feel of the Trek I've loved forever. Pike and his crew are a breath of fresh, recycled ship's air and not since Enterprise have I found myself scheduling time to get to see it. I wish my siblings had been alive to see it, they would have loved it. My ex missed it, he, like me, was a huge fan but passed away last July, he was looking forward to seeing it. I want to see the franchise continued, in whatever form it takes. I'll always be a fan. Thank you for doing this video, it confirmed much of what I had thought, and it also gave me hope that it's going to keep giving fans new things to love, far into the future.
Ditto. Grew up on TOS, was lukewarm about TNG, didn't watch the others until Enterprise, which just felt more like "Trek" to me. I enjoyed the reboot movies (starting in 2009), but they still felt a little hollow. Watched first 2 seasons of Discovery. Never grew to like it. Haven't watched Picard at all since I was never a Picard fan anyway. Strange New Worlds is like a breath of fresh air. It's not great Trek, but good enough to keep me coming back every week for more. I too appreciate this video.
@@SwingingInTheHood at least with strange new worlds it feels like they're trying to make something for the fans instead of trying to make something to piss off the fans,...
I'm one of those Original Star Trek Fans. Since sitting down in front of my family's newly purchased Color TV in 1965. I'm fine with Start Trek Changing. 'Canon' is too close to 'religion' for me. Take us where "No One has Gone Before.' THAT is the legacy of Star Trek, not inviolable 'Canon.'
@@the21stcenturydavincibegin35 "Canon is too close to religion" is such a perfect way to phrase what I've been saying a lot lately. Sometimes ignoring canon can be a sign of poor writing, but taking it too seriously can be just as bad.
I definitely think that some credit has to go to Anson Mount and Ethan Peck as they are doing great jobs as Pike and Spock and really give a Star Trek feel back to the audience
Sadly the damage is done, as much as they do a good job, STD has already done irreparable damage, decanonizing these 3 shows and starting fresh is the only way to fix it.
@@TheZamaron it’s already off canon and has been since STD’s first episode. Spock never had a sister. They retconned her in and they Tried to create a justification for why we never knew about her… The fact is, Burnham never needed to be Spocks sister. She didn’t need to have Spocks father as her own. They used recognisable Trek assets to prop her up instead of developing their own original ideas. In QoM, the reboot version of BoT, we see the same. They added some original aspects but after all the changes to that timeline, at the end of the Romulan Commanders life, he repeats the words he spoke to Kirk. Nothing that happened differently mattered to the writers who wrote that episode. They just lifted high chunks of BoT and dropped it into QoM. By then the Commander saw Pike was weak whereas Kirk was tenacious. Though given what we’ve seen in STD, Picard and many episodes of SNW, writing is not Secret Hideouts strong suit. The writers don’t have the breadth of experience to write or adapt a piece of work. DS9’s duet shows a great screenplay, the man in the glass booth, converted into a Trek story. SH miss the target every time they try to adapt a story… and worse, they actually tried to lift from another established IP. Alien…. It’s as if the writers are all 30 and never deep dived into sci fi outside of big budget IP’s in the cinema.
Anson Mount and Ethan Peck are doing fabulous in their roles. Mount as Pike will be one of the best liked Captains of all Trek series I think if things continue to go well.
Strange New Worlds is the saving grace in this era of Trek. One can only hope that its success is noted by creators across the franchise. Hopefully the formula will influence future shows.
why? why should each series copy the other series or previous? we now live in world where we can. pick and. chose what we like in trek - oh wait we've always been able to do that- let's continue the trend
SNW could be better with less of the homely women characters and more of the hotties like the other ST series had. That little twit girl a security chief ? GMAB! Could they have made a worse choice? And La' an? my god what a terrible pick! It's like watching an frugly squirrel tangle with a grizzly bear!
It's not that great. They could be focusing on telling great stories like Top Gun Maverick did. I watch old Star Trek over and over because it tells timeless stories.
Berman is not on The Orville, but Brannon Braga who worked under Berman on TNG, VOY, & ENT is one of the showrunners on The Orville with Jon Cassar (of 24) and of course, Seth MacFarlane. Also, Trek veterans Jonathan Frakes and Robert Duncan MacNeil have directed episodes.
@@thebrewingsailor9172 That right I knew that but my brain got the 2 mixed up. Worse yet I literally was just watched the last episode and talked about that.
I am female, almost 71 years old and love all the Star Trek shows. I am just thankful they are being made. I am not a fundamentalist when it come to Star Trek. I like the bright future of the original but that is not realistic for me and I know that it takes all of the different shows to make that future. I don't watch the cartoons but I love the rest of the different shows.
Paramount needs to fire Kurtzman and bring back Berman, Moore and Braga back. Yes, they made mistakes, but I trust them as people who actually worked with or under Roddenberry than the so-called “fans” currently in charge.
As long a Kurtzman and JJ Abrams have anything to do with Star Trek, Star Trek is dead to me. CBS Should have hired AXANAR Productions and let them take Star Trek to a new level.
Great video with a fantastic VO! I still have not gone back to Trek since i heard SNW is using January 6th as the basis for WWIII. There is the liberal/conservative divide right there.
Thanks! I was worried the music was to loud, thanks for watching. About SNW: You're totally right but in defense of SNW, they showed both Jan 6th and the BLM Riots... They were trying to say the divide is what caused it, not a specific event. Thanks for the compliment!
@@ThePopcast agreed with your thoughts in the second half of the comment. I didn't get the impression (as Michelle said) that the events of January 6th alone kicked off World War 3 whatsoever, it's obvious they were talking about the divide in the country as you say. And the riots you mentioned as well as January 6th (extremes of all sides) are just examples of that divide. Besides the events of that day (1/6) are now a historical event in the fabric of this country, like the Bush v. Gore Supreme Court decision, the Montgomery bus boycotts (1956), the Branch Davidian compound incident in Waco, TX (1993) or the Murrah building bombing by McVeigh in OKC (1995).
Strange New Worlds is fantastic. Anson Mount is perfect as Captain Pike. He was the best part of Discovery. While I have watched both Discovery and Picard, I have been very, disappointed with them. I am hoping for a far better final season of Picard. I can’t wait for the next season of SNW.
I have been watching Star Trek since the early 80s. My favorite has always been TNG but love them all...Including the "new Trek". All of the series have had issues. But all of them are great. I look forward to what will come from Star Trek. Like you said can't please everyone all of the time, which just means haters are going to hate.
There is nothing 'great' about STD it is a deliberate slap in the face to the very people that made the franchise the success the fans the real fans the ones who have watched it since it was on air not since the '80s since the f****** 60s
I'm not going to apologize that I was born in the 70s so not able to watch them like my parents did back then. Like I said. - haters are going to hate. Pfft the 'real fans'! This is why fandoms have become toxic. Like what you like. We will like what we like. But no reason to pull out the 'I'm better because I was alive when it first aired' card. I love Star Wars as well but was only 1 when it came out in the theater, but that doesn't mean that I like it less than the fans that watched it in the theater! - Guess the comment got deleted but I'm leaving this up just in case another 'Real Fan" from the 60s decides to attack me because of the age difference.
@@SolNexus I would never attack someone over their age. It's not like you chose the date. However.. I've been watching the series since the late 1960s. I was a child of the 1960s. What that means is I have a different perspective from someone that's a "Johnny come lately". Those people are not going to have the points of reference for context of the programming. It's not your fault, it is what it is though.
Strange New Worlds really helped bring back the Star Trek I was used too. Discovery was hard to watch at times. Picard season 2 was much better and season 3 excites me for the future.
@@stonehorn4641 SNW was more fun… but it still demonstrates the problem with Secret Hideouts writing room and production team. They are afraid to be completely, 100% original with their screenplays within the era of Trek the show is set in. If it’s not a member berry that’s 25% different then it’s canon breaking with a mischievous, ‘but there’s a reason it’s different.’
Picard S2 is by far the worst garbage ever produced under the Trek banner, it was embarassingly, cringeworthily bad attimes. Discovery has really plumbed the depths of crap Tv too.
Same with me I remember when I was a kid I couldn't wait for the next week's episode. I didn't have it with voyager and Enterprise. I definitely do with strange new worlds it's actually very exciting to have Star Trek done right again
@@indranidasgupta8982 Enterprise season 4 was great. It was Les Moonves who is the reason Enterprise was cancelled. Enterprise had finally hit its stride at that point. Regrettable that Mr. Moonves hated Star Trek.
@@GwonkReefkeeping moonves was one reason. Trek fans abandoning the show while it was in production was a large part of the other reason - bad ratings. I know. I was there. I was part of TrekUnited - we were at the paramount gates BEGGING TPTB NOT TO CANCEL THE SHOW DESPITE THE RATINGS. I was on TrekBBS every day having to listen to so-called Real Trek fans whining on and on and on about Archer being a horrible captain, about how the show was the worst trek ever, about how awful the theme song was, about how stupid ANIS WAS, about the Beebs effing it all up. You can’t do revisionist history with me. I started watching Trek during the TOS reruns back in the 70s and have been with the franchise EVERY FUCKING STEP OF THE WAY. I’ve seen how Trek fans who call themselves Real Fans abandon not just Enterprise but also DS9 during their production and then do fancy footwork decades later pretending they loved and watched those shows back then and were really dedicated fans of the franchise. LOL… NOT!
I finally watched DS9 start finish… I had watched it here and there when it aired… but this year I sat down and binged it…. It is easily now my all time favorite Star Trek. I think what I love about DS9 so much, is you have a show that still feels Trekish, has the Federation we know so well, but they are just 1 aspect of it. s1 cast 4 aliens and 4 humans, perfect blend. It’s the kind of Trek I always wanted. And being a huge fan of Hannibal, I was so hoping for Bryan Fuller’s Star Trek. I hope Bryan Fuller either get Hannibal back going like he’s trying or somehow gets another chance at Trek
Fantastic video. I was not aware of the “war” that underlay the production of the new Star Trek series. It was great to learn about all the personalities that impacted what actually got delivered. I have watched Star Trek since it was originally launched. The Original Series, The Next Generation, Discovery, Picard, and Strange New Worlds are all favorites to me. Though I I found Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise less enjoyable than the others, there were things about each of them I valued. I embrace the somewhat darker outlook of Discovery and Picard as more consistent with the Science Fiction genre as a whole. It is less comfortable, but more pragmatic. I found the first season of Discovery to be some of the best acting and science fiction I have ever seen in a TV sci fi series. The interplay between Shaniqua Martin-Green and Michelle Yeoh was enthralling. Most of all I found Discovery to be DARING. I am glad they boldly went where no one had gone before. I find Strange New Worlds as fun to watch as Discovery, BUT they are quite different. I greatly enjoy their interpretation of older episodes from TOS. They are true to the original themes, but thoroughly modern, with their own brilliant presentation. Thanks for this time to engage on something I love so much. I am a recent subscriber. I must say, I love The Popcast!
I was one of those groaning about new Trek shows in the 80s and 90s, but got sucked in by the end of the first or second season of each one. Five years later, nuTrek still isn't cutting it. As for SNW, all I can say is that not every single episode has bored or annoyed me. to tears.
67 year old woman here advising I have always loved Star Trek, well at least most of them. I was never a fan of Enterprise or DS9. I didn't understand what all the negative comments were about regarding Discovery. I wasn't happy I had to pay to see it but I had no problem with the show and liked all the episodes and story line. I LOVE Strange New Worlds and wish its first season had more episodes. I had no idea there was so much turmoil over Star Trek until I watched this great video. Thanks for all the info.
Hey Bonnie! Thanks for commenting, I really appreciate it. Strange New Worlds was amazing, I can't wait for season 2. What was your favorite character? Mine was Hemmer :(
@@ThePopcast I was rather upset when Hemmer sacrificed himself. I wasn't sure about him at first, but he grew on me quickly to the point of becoming a favorte for me as well. He's one of those characters I wish had another season before he left. Kind of like Doctor Who actors that I wish had a few more seasons. I've watched most of Disco and while I don't find it to be bad... let's put it this way, I've had more strong emotional reactions to S1 of SNW and S3 of Orville than any of STD I've watched thus far.
Wow. I had heard hints that Fuller didn’t get Trek but you’ve made a strong case that he as guilty as Kurtzman for producing the shallow, dour, lecture series for children that STD and STP ended up being. SNW is a good start. It’s what STD should have been. I was so psyched in the beginning I loved Michelle Yeoh, Jason Isaacs and Sonequa Martin-Green from their previous work. Then I watch season 1. It was very disappointing. It was neither Trek nor good SF. It was an expensive multi hour film written by Twitter. I still have hope that SNW can be great, but I’m very leery of STP season 3. Picard almost never acts like Picard. It’s like watching you beloved grandpa suffering with dementia. His greatness surfaces once and a while to punctuate your despair.
When we were done with the research I was actually frustrated with Fuller. Mostly because he's always thrown Kurtzman under the bus even though the whole direction of the show was his idea.
I agree. " It was an expensive multi hour film written by Twitter." The first two episodes of STD felt like a crime drama with a rookie cop making mistakes with a sci-fi facade on top. The writing was lazy and the dialogue awful.
I was born in 1965 and Star trek has always been part of my life, my personality, and my journey. From the beginning I was infatuated with it, deeply hooked, and as it evolved and changed over time, threw the growing pains we both did suffer, having to endure changes, some good and some bad, our World's playing off of each other as we evolved. I am just greatfull that we are both still here, at this time, where the possibility of are realities merging into one truth, has never been greater as the disclosure of alien life and advanced technologies are finally starting to be released. I can only hope that we both survive long enough to see it come to fruition.
It doesn't matter! Who you are! When you have 7 of 9 blasting ppl with a laser rifle, kicking butt and taking names, that's a good freaking show. Period!
This was a well researched and presented video, yet I kept waiting for the fundamental change of ‘New Trek’ brought on by Lower Decks and this never happened. A return to episodic adventures, appealing to long time Trekkies, bringing back the characters we loved… long before Strange New Worlds. How was Lower Decks ever green lit given what is described in this video? I’ve heard a lot of people say Lower Decks is one of the best Trek series of all time, and yet it seemingly is ignored outside a short reference.
I agree that Lower Decks was glossed over here, and I would like to know more about how it fit into this whole picture. As for myself, I am one of those who had walked away from Star Trek ever since Enterprise, and it was Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks that brought me back.
It's animated so I think it gets written off as something "else". Hearing there's going to be a LD/SNW crossover episode, if true, will cement it in canon. There's honestly tons of smart and funny ways they could even integrate the animation as a 2d mirror universe or something like that, but yeah maybe besides SNW definitely the best Trek of this century IMO.
I believe that everyone who loves Star Trek . Is just keeping the franchise alive . TOS and current trek. I love them all . WE NEED SOME TOYS AND ACTION FIGURES.
I'm just a Trekkie. I like all of the shows. I think Burnham is a female Kirk. Strange new worlds is great. Showing the Enterprise before Kirk. Pike is a nice change from others captains. Picard is a nice way to lead into another series. Maybe Seven will get a show. She looked good in the captains chair. They need to find a spot for Warf. They could always replace Picard with Riker since he's already been on the show. The possibilities are endless.
Characters and stories of Strange New World are very good and entertaining, vast improvement over other recent series. Discovery hopefully will go episodic so we don't drag on stories like last season. Hopefully there will be better character building on Discovery. I like Book who is now gone. Michael is moderately okay. We need some new additional stand out characters in the crew to get invested in. The writers need to take a page from SNW and find better actors for the bridge crew, build their characters and write better stories. It should not be centered around Michael all the time. It is like totally different writers and showrunners for SNW and Discovery.
I like old trek because there was never any desire to herald a characters race or gender. The diversity was natural, not "we gotta have our first". They just did it and it was natural.
The CBS All Access streaming service was already up and running a year before Discovery, their premiere show was The Good Fight and they were already streaming all the other CBS shows including the first season of Supergirl. Now, I'm going to completely disagree with you that Discovery is not "Built on Hope." Unless you didn't see the last episode of season one, there is no way you can make that statement because the entire point of that episode - and frankly the entire point of the season - is the process of HOLDING ONTO HOPE in the face of nothing but entropy and destruction. Despite the pessimism of stopping the War by committing genocide against the Klingons, the Discovery crew all REJECT that option and stand together to choose another path. "WE ARE STARFLEET." Reaching that point, was the point of having a Mirror Universe Captain in command, it was the point of going into the Mirror Universe and living as they do - in dog eat dog desperation - they LEARNED A LESSON there, that the rest of Starfleet had unfortunately forgotten. It was only because of that experience that they could stand up and *Demand* the choice of hope. In Season 2, Captain Pike is absolutely about Hope. Also, he's Non-LGBTQ and Not Evil. In Season 3 that is the case again as the Discovery rekindles the optimism of a hopelessly damaged Starfleet after the burn. "You made us look up!" And in Season 4 they again battled negativity coming from Book who lost his entire world to the DMA versus optimism that they can reach and communicate with the 10-C race in a way that will save their worlds. ALL OF IT is about Hope. If you don't see that - you're blind. Secondly, Spock disobeyed orders and planned a mutiny in The Menagerie where he kidnapped Pike to take him back to Talos IV. He did it again with the entire crew in This Side of Paradise. The entire Enterprise Crew committed Mutiny when they stole the Enterprise in Star Trek III. But Burnham disobeying Georgio is a bridge too far? Pffft. Isaacs was playing a Mirror Universe Captain - of course he knew that was a major change, to put it mildly. How exactly was Discovery "Targeted for younger audiences" when it had more adult themes, more violence, and more curse words? How's that work? Discovery was not a CW styled show - it was a Star Trek version of the Battlestar Galactica reboot, which was highly popular and by Star Trek alum Ronald D. Moore. "A lot of this is conjecture" - yeah, that's an understatement. Bringing in the Enterprise and Pike wasn't Kurtzman's idea - it was Akiva Goldsman who wanted that and ultimately pushed to get Strange New Worlds made. That was his dream. On the issue of Canon, frankly if you watch more of Enterprise you'll see many more examples of hologram technology. There were even examples of it going back the animated series - so Discovery was not really that far outside of canon at all. And the change in the Klingons was something that had already happened during Star Trek: Into Darkness - which was the most current piece prior to Discovery. They were frankly *following* canon more closely if you paid attention to that and Enterprise. Lastly, SNW is not 'better" Trek - not compared to the best Trek ever which was DS9 by far - but it's a good show. If it stops the incessant whining about having an "episodic" show finally, then good. Those that like having limited shallow stories can go enjoy it and the rest of us can have the rest of Trek which is still taking challenges, still trying new things, and still venturing out into the unknown with guts and courage. It may not always be perfect, but it always swings for the fences.
A couple quick things: 1. "Entropy and Destruction" are the wrong words to use, 90% of their problems in S1 was self inflicted . 2. It wasn't Akiva Goldsman who thought up Strange New Worlds, it was actually first though up by fans at the end of S2 and there was a huge petition for a Pike led series, Akiva was simply tasked with making it happen by Kurtzman and the TPB. 3. Discovery was certainly targeted at the CW Adult Youth population BECAUSE its excessive and unnecessary use of cursing, baseless violence and overly dramatic characters. These are all themes that the early 20's demo go crazy over. 4. "On the issue of Canon" We never mentioned HOLO tech but it certainly didn't fit, and they made it very clear that Star Trek Into Darkness was not in the same universe or timeline as Discovery. They went out of their way to separate the newer movies with the series. As someone who has seen all of Enterprise nearly 30 times I can tell you there are things that fit and there are things that don't. I wont nit pick little things but as writers of the show they should be. Lastly, art is subjective and if you like DS9 or Discovery most of all then more power to you. We aren't criticizing your interests or taste. We are however criticizing writing, casting and attention to detail. We are commenting on the care taken in making our favorite form of Art, and reporting on Who, What, When Where, and Why it was made. That's our job, if the facts we gathered don't sit well with you we can't control that. If you don't like any specific opinions expressed after those facts are presented then feel free to criticize us, we can take it. Thanks for commenting and having this conversation with me. #LLAP
@@ThePopcast swearing is excessive? umm really? and modern trek is just trying to appeal to modern audiences, not "adult children" - it's the boomer man babies that they aren't specifically targeting - but that's a never happy lot anyway, so why bother!
@@ThePopcast #1) I would argue that's not true - the war wasn't Burnham's fault as T'Kuvma was hellbent on his plan to use war as a war to reunite the disparate Klingon houses. If you're arguing that being a prequel caused "problems", suddenly being a prequel doesn't have any impact on SNW now does it? I think those were largely "problems of perception." #2) Akiva specifically said having a show about Pike is what he wanted as soon as he was brought in to work on Discovery, and that it was his idea to introduce the Enterprise at the end of season 1. It's in this episode of the Ready Room. ruclips.net/video/zNNtdMoYbZw/видео.html It didn't happen because "fans demanded it" that is yet another of the many self-aggrandizing fantasies and conjectures underlying this video. #3) Using the CW reference is a juvenile way to dismiss the show, frankly almost every network show had become serialized with bits of language and violence from Lost to Scandal, Revenge to Lone Survivor - what they were doing was a current modern TV show on a streaming service where they didn't have any overt censorship rather than a piece of ancient nostalgia from 25 years ago. (SNW is now the nostalgia and it's fun, but it creeks like it's covered in rust too) It was like the Battlestar Reboot contrasted with the original; similar inspiration - different execution. And actually, the first cuss word was actually "Shit" when Tyler realized Lorca was a Captain during "Choose Your pain". It wasn't sensationalized - it was so quick, most people could have missed it entirely. Discovery was very mild compared to how Netflix handled Daredevil and Jessica Jones in contrast to Agents of Shield. #4) The Holo tech fit in perfectly with what had been previously established in Enterprise as shown by this video. ruclips.net/video/Ewjh0lPRQGI/видео.html There is little good reason to think that the arrival of the Narada changed Klingon history and development. It's possible that there was a parallel development in both universes toward more genetic "purity" in the wake of the Augment virus, again from Enterprise. This also matches with T'Kuvma's extreme xenophobia. " We are however criticizing writing, casting and attention to detail. " You are criticizing the entire rationale behind the show while trying to force it into a chauvinistic White cis male context. Are there many women and several LGBTQ persons on the show? Yes. Is that a case of White Cis Male replacement? Perhaps, but point of fact white males are only 30% of America and if you go through Discovery's entire cast - as I have - you can see that White Males are at about 30% representation, including those under prosthetics like Saru and Linus. Frankly, after 100 years of White men in black and red face - from Amos and Andy to Chuck Norris as "Geronimo" to "Soul Man" with C. Thomas Howell, Scarlet Johansen in Ghost in the Machine and Benedict Cumberbach as "Khan" the history of Hollywood replacing ethnic actors with white actors is long and horrific. ruclips.net/video/1pBQAt2YO_Y/видео.html I have an Asian Actor friend - Archie Kao - who was born in Washington DC whose had to leave the US and go to Taiwan to get consistent acting roles. Discovery gets the balance just about right overall. Judging the writing for showing non-straight/white characters as people and not as charicatures (ala Steppen Fetchit) is more truthful and honest - it's not an agenda other than it reverses the previous agenda of white cis male dominance. Everyone judges art from their own individual frame of reference and perspective, you've made yours obvious.
19:16 All those "Can you imagine..." questions? Yeah, I can imagine those scenarios, and that would've been amazing! Tastes change. The way we tell stories on screen has changed. Totally fine if it's not your cup of tea. Enjoy some reruns. I love Discovery; it's the one current show that consistently looks forward.
As someone who watched TNG as a kid growing up the rest of the series to follow, I have not and will not watch the 'new' trek. Fare thee well my fallen compatriots.
I like all of the 'Star Trek' shows. I'm a 'Star Trek' fan, so I like 'Star Trek'. As with the original series, some episodes are better than others. That is the case with every series, film, and novel. But, I am a 'Star Trek' fan, so I like 'Star Trek'. I wonder if there is a divide between some fans and some "creative types"... specifically, those of us who work in film & television and those of us who do not. To that end, getting any show in production is a minor miracle. This video does an excellent job of describing all of the hands that mix the pot, from the creative to the corporate to the fandom. Another way of looking at it is the industry phrase, "There are always three films - the one that is written, the one that is directed, and the one that is edited." If we add corporate and fandom to the mix... well. But, I am a 'Star Trek' fan, so I LIKE 'Star Trek'. And, with any one man's vision and/or corporate bottom-line, things evolve. Change is the only constant in the Universe. I am not the first to say that, nor was 'Mr. Spock'. Roddenberry's vision of 'Trek' had to evolve or we would not have had 'Deep Space Nine'. And, the last couple of seasons of 'The Next Generation' might have been very different. Roddenberry created 'Trek' and is its father, but he does not own 'Trek'. Paramount owns 'Trek' and a diverse group of "creative types" are brought in to create new storylines and new content. And, thank God for that because it is great to see diversity in characters, stories, ships, planets, and other aesthetics. The industry has evolved because people have evolved. 'Star Trek' is what it is at any given time... because, the 1960's are different from the 1980's, which are different from the 1990's, which are different from the 2000's, which are different from today. This is true of the entertainment industry, we "creative types", and the fandom. Things evolve. Now, whether we like change is another question. Remember what 'Kirk' said to the 'Klingon Ambassador' about people being afraid of change. This may not be your father's 'Trek' because this is a different 'Trek'... "infinite possibilities" and all that. But, I am a 'Star Trek' fan, so I like 'Star Trek'. And, for those who do not like new, or old, or parallel 'Trek' for the reasons they believe to be valid in terms of legacy or vision or tone or diversity or some other metric(s)... you are entitled to your opinions because there is even room - in this infinite Universe - for you too.
Loved Strange New Worlds from the moment Pike gave that speech to the Civil War aliens in episode 1. It's my favorite Star Trek since DS9. Was never a big fan of Voyager and Enterprise. Picard and Discovery arnt worth mentioning.
For me I have been a long time for love of all things Star Trek. So I can say that I love all the new Trek that is out now. And so I am 43 years old so I have seen every Star Trek here to date.
That is amazing, same here. I've seen every episode of Star Trek ever made at least twice. My favorite is Voyager and I've watched it nearly 20 times now. What was your all time favorite episode of you mind me asking?
@@ThePopcast Well I just don't have only one favorite episode of Star Trek. I have many favorites from all shows. Like from TOS: The Menagerie part 1&2, TNG: The Best of both worlds, DS9: Rejoined, Voyager: Scorpion part 1&2, Enterprise: Vanishing Point, Discovery: Coming Home, Strnge New World: A Quality Of Mercy. Now there are others that are my favorite but that is to name a few. Now that's just talking about the shows. For the Movies I love them all. That includes the JJ ones as well. Some of all of the movies were not as strong as others but they all still have merit. So when I say I love Star Trek that's what I mean. And so I will never watch The Orville shows because it is a nock off of Star Trek. Now there are other sci-fi that I do like like Star Wars, Stargate: movie and all the shows, Battlestar Galatica and many more. But no matter what Star Trek will always be my favorite and love of them all.
I was on-board with CBS all access from day one. Star Trek catalog is awesome, New Trek is for a new generation, but SNW really embraced what I love about Trek. Great Job Popcast, loved this. Top notch Shane and Brian Thank you
Thanks for the great video and I LOVE all Star Trek. I'm just really grateful for the new series..Discovery,Picard, Strange New Worlds,hurrah! For Lower decks,Prodigy, And Short Treks ❤
That exchange between the newsreaders when one of them confuses the Star Trek Wars with the Star Wars Trek cracks me up. You just don't get writing like that this side of the 00s. 😂
I was a long term fan but gave up on STD and Picard, and yeah felt like a big middle finger was given to half the fans when Stacey Abrams showed up as the Earth President. That being said, I've enjoyed SNW quite a bit and Lower Decks has it's charm. I just wish Paramount would bail on the lower rated STD and focus exclusively on SNW. imo
We as the fans need to admit that star trek has been divisive from the start. Ever since TNG when TOS era fans where complaining about the TNG crew which did happen. Discovery made it's mistakes in the early years we have to admit that but it also has a few, very few, good points, the later two seasons were better but still have work to do. Picard was a better attempt yes but still made a lot of mistakes during the first season and the second season was more of a fan fiction than anything in my opinion. Strange new world's was okay if you can get past the Gorn rip off of Aliens and a few other things but SNW was better than Discovery. I try to reserve my opinion on the newer trek until I have seen what they have done. With Lower Decks and Prodigy they have a opportunity that they don't seem to be willing to truly explore. That's the ability to dive into the creative side of things and blend it with Canon in a manner that will add to the lore and make sense with what we know. Lower Decks they are trying to be to much of a comedy which is okay. Until they focus to much on the comedy of a situation instead of the seriousness of it when the situation obviously calls for a level of seriousness. Prodigy, I know it is the one that is meant for the kids but it makes little to no sense to me what so ever. They are on a experimental class vessel yet that vessel is a training vessel as the holographic version of Janeway we are introduced to is a training program who seems to think that the rest of the main cast are starfleet cadets somehow. They haven't given us enough of an explanation on the overall storyline yet to fully understand anything that's going on. They jump around from plot point to plot point so often that I don't think they know what they are truly doing. New trek is entertaining I'll give them that but it can get annoying when you try to connect it to old trek and figure out how it fits in. Especially when new trek has proven to not be afraid to completely ignore established trek history.
You make a good point about Star Trek's history of divisive reception from fans. A lot of critics in the fandom who are super negative about "New Trek" or "NuTrek" also seem to forget how early seasons of TNG and DS9 struggled with quality and consistency. I grew up watching TNG as my first Trek series, and with a gun to my head I'd probably still say TNG is my favorite. But even before the advent of New Trek I'd struggle when I rewatched a lot of S1 & S2. TNG and DS9 have a complete legacy now when we think of them in hindsight, but IMO an objective viewer who compares S1 of TNG with S1 of Discovery ought to conclude that Disco is a stronger more consistent show. I'm not even trying to say S1 of Disco is *good* with that comparison, as much as reminding folks how weak S1 of TNG was. I had a similar opinion of ENT, which faced *very* similar vitriol from fans during its run to the Disco hate, but I think had a clearly much better start in its first two seasons than TNG did. No Trek show has ever been perfect, but in many ways New Trek has learned its lessons and overcome its weaknesses faster and better than legacy Trek did. SNW may be the most consistently high quality 10 episode run of any Trek show in franchise history. Trek fans ought to be more excited than ever for the future of our fandom.
Nitpicking is a past time all Trek fans have, will and should be able to perform without people berating them for it. From a comm badge that disappears, reappears, then disappears again... to every time Data used a contraction. Trek fans, then and now, are observant and enjoy sharing their observations with the Trek community... It was when Nu Trek refused to admit it was a stealth reboot that things went wrong. If STD was set in the Classic Timeline, then yes... All nitpicks based on continuity are valid. But if SH have created a new continuity that separates their Trek from Classic Trek... Then nitpicks are relegated to observations of instances of divergence in a universe that can and should do it's own thing as a new continuity... There is enough evidence to indicate SH has crafted this alt 'Prime' Continuity to follow instead of the Classic continuity spanning events from TOS to ENT. They just won't admit it, because in ambiguity they obviously believe they are benefiting. From people promoting their shows to people debating their shows, they have essentially scored twice the critics that appeal to a larger audience than either one could separately.
It’s not actually a training vessel, Janeway had her memories deleted and programming tampered with after that robot attacked. She had enough programming remaining to think they were cadets because she sees everything through a Starfleet lens. Her programming took-on that role just as the EMH is much more than a doctor. I thought the plot was tight - they escaped slavery, wanted to get asylum from the Federation, and stopped at a couple of planets along the way. There’s a couple of episodes dedicated to character growth (Kobayashi Maru and Time Amok) so they can act more cohesively. Then they got threatened back so that (narratively) they could kill off that season’s villain. The real Janeway is searching for the ship and Chakotay after it was lost, because of the loyalty and connection she has with Chakotay (which is also why Chakotay made a Janeway hologram to be his… advisor? Assistant? Proto-drive operator? First officer?).
I think the executives, producers and showrunners relying on the PC Revolution was there downfall in the Trek universe. Star Trek has always shown diversity and acceptance but not as a way of winning over a younger audience. The Lessons Learned From Roddenberry and his way of weaving it into a story as opposed to smacking it in your face would have come off far better. And as much the others who have commented in this section I do believe that strange new worlds does a far better job than the previous shows. I hope any future shows in the Star Trek universe keep their message prominent but subtle.
I love Strange New Words. Probably the best series created thus far! Looking forward to Section 31. To be fair I’d watch a show of Michelle Yeoh painting her house.
I don't care at all for New Trek .. maybe I'm just old and out of touch .. ST:SNW is definitely a improvement IMO .. But I still don't love it .. Maybe "my Trek" has run it course ... IDK
I'm right there with you. I still can't figure out if I REALLY like SNW or it's just I've loathed Discovery and Picard so much, that just about anything in comparison would seem great as long as it's not complete shite.
You're not old nor or you out of touch. You have a brain and can discern shit from shinola. All the NuTrek just isn't good. SNW is better, but it's not good and doesn't respect canon.
You did forget a couple of important reasons why it hasn't caught on. namely the fact that the writing is garbage. First, the character development is sluggish. We were asked several times to care about characters that we barely knew. Second, they not only threw cannon out the window, they flat out crapped all over it. Lastly, Star Trek has always been a cerebral show, asking it's viewers to really think about the topics raised. So much so that NBC canceled the original series for being too cerebral. Discovery is about feelings. Characters talk about love and family (when we haven't seen anything on screen that really connects us to them), but never invokes serious discussion about story parallels to important social issues.
To be fair there are a few youtube channels that released this information as developments occurred but its good to see it all under one video and in hindsight.
Great video, I grew up following all the Trek series, even Voyager, although I am not a Janeway fan. But Discovery has been a letdown. Picard was wonderful fan service and redeemed the franchise partly. Now lower Decks and SNW are both amazing and brings Trek back to form.
Also Michael Burnham was trying to prevent a war by firing first to show aggression and win respect like the Vulcans did which was the only thing klingons would understand. However she was stopped before the ship fired so by not firing first caused the war
20:00 The problem with Fullers statement about "Liberal and Conservative" Star Trek Fans is.....there's a whole lot of Star Trek Fans outside the US who have nothing to do and don't want anything to do with the political thinking of the USA. So putting Star Trek fandom in those two categories already alienates (pun intended) a big portion of the fanbase.
Yep, Fuller's statement sounds a little opinionated or arrogant and narrow minded. The world is a huge place and many of us are not defined by USA politics or even interested. Its not healthy.
The biggest problem with ST since 2009 is Alex Kurtzman, and as long as he's involved, the franchise is dead. Also, if ST already appealed to more women than men, and they wanted to appeal to women, that's a reason to have kept it the same, not to artificially cater to what producers think women wanted (which is often a mistake). (Yes, I do wish it had never been made, because it's now unlikely a real ST series will ever be made again.) Also, you spent the video pointing out how nuTrek is dystopian, and then claim the opposite in the end.
I remember when Berman and Braga were The Problem! Just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it bad. I despise the horror genre for example and am utterly indifferent to anything in that vein but see that some of those films are truly great, and I don’t feel the need to trash something someone else likes.
@@dbernardstevens475 It's not the fans who are critical that are the problem. It's the ones who stay silent and just walk away because the franchise no longer interests them. If I were a producer, I would want to know what my best customers actually thought of my new product before I lose them.
Trek is alive snd I could not be happier! I love these shows!! Discovery has some issues yes but by the time the seasons end it’s all pretty fantastic! Picard was good, could have been better but I still love it!! Strange New Worlds is EVERYTHING I love about Trek!! May it all just go on forever!!
I was so disappointed by both Star Trek Discovery and Picard that i haven't wasted my time watch Strang New Worlds. All of this is very expensive, highly produced fan fiction.
I'm a huge Star Trek fan. TOS, TNG, VOY DS9 and even ENT. Like them all. STD was a slap in the face to me. I found it disgusting. Picard was a little better, however they murdered my favorite captain, and I'm not talking about the turning him into an Android bullshit. He wasn't the same man. I stopped watching midway through the first season. SNW is much better. I'm definitely enjoying it, but I'm about 3 episode behind right now with no urgency to catch up. But I will though. It's not perfect, and I haven't decided if it's actually good or just better than the other shit. The jury's still out on that for me. Either way, I love your reviews and thank you guys for making these great videos!
Im of that exact opinion although i stopped watching STD after season one i dont mind the tone just like stargate universes darker tone. I tuned out of Picard halfway through the first season, that man was like a father figure to me and i didnt recognize him, he let his liberal views shine through way too much and liberals were great back in the day, but unbearable now.
I have been a Trek fan for years. I watched Star Trek when it was in reruns in my area in the 1980's. I have seen all of the movies and loved TNG, DS9, and Voyager. I was excited about Star Trek: Enterprise as being a prequel to TOS, but was highly disappointed when the Klingon running through the fields in "Broken Bow" looked like Klingons from the aforementioned TNG, DS9, and Voyager. A real Star Trek fan knows during TOS, there was no money to do elaborate markup for the Klingons, until TOS moved to making movies. In the DS9 episode, "Trials and Tribblations", Worf made the statement that the difference in TOS series Klingons and the Klingons from his era is an eternal matter and isn't talked about. Clever. But, we have Enterprise and the 1st episode of "Broken Bow" and it's Klingon with a ridged forehead. I have a couple of issues with Star Trek: Discovery. Again, I was excited to watch this show and, again, didn't like the 1st episode because of...you guessed it...the Klingons. Look, just because you have the funds to do something doesn't mean that you should. And, chronologically, isn't Discovery set between Enterprise and TOS? This doesn't make sense. The last issue, and I know I am going to make a LOT of people mad, but really? I have gays and lesbians in my family and I love them very much. I have absolutely no issue in whom they date and / marry. It's their life and they are can get involved with whomever they do choose. I have an issue with almost EVERY TV show leaning toward gay and lesbian characters. Everyone wants to be politically correct and do whatever they can to draw in more viewers, which in turn, brings more money. Personally, I hate the fact that Star Trek: Discovery went this route by having two openly, flaming gay characters. Can there be at least ONE show without two men being intimate with each other?
My constant feeling: Ron D Moore's Battlestar Galactica delivered a devastating blow to tv science fiction, making the previous major franchises pale by comparison, and oddy enough, paying the right homage to William Shatner's Star Trek. RDM's BSG said, in effect, here are real people in their civilian and military roles, and the future a few hundred or maybe a thousand years from now will see us living in these ways that we do live. Star Trek TOS said this as well. These two series shaped how I feel about all other science fiction. To the direct points raised in the facts of the Paramount Plus Star Trek origins presented here, I say what I say about TNG, DS9 VOY and ENT - - there are excellent episodes and horrible episodes which I take on a case by case basis. DISCO INTENDED to be problematic, but an "Orville" - like homage to previous Trek by a new Star Trek series would have been deadly dull. PICARD and DISCO both tilled the "malevolent AI" soil in similar but opposite plotlines, and DISCO's life in the 32nd Century feels like something else entirely. "Strange New Worlds" is trying to update an on-ramp to arrive at Kirk's TOS era, and it's an important experiment on how to do this hybid thing. When it works, it's excellent, but when it doesn't work it's a flop. The jury is still out.
You have a great point here, we are actually working on a Battlestar Galactica Documentary that we plan to finish in early August and you're right about the style that so many shows tried to adapt (unsuccessfully) in the wake of that series. Even the great Stargate was pretty much sunk by BSG because they couldn't replicate that style. Subscribe and stay tuned to the channel, I really hope you can see our BSG video in a few weeks and let me know if we got everything.
I think that some people involved in new ST shows don’t just despise hardcore fans, but the original material as well. That’s why they only do the right thing after all other options are exhausted.
The great thing about all Star Trek series is the entire Universe is the imaginational limit but the bad thing is, it usually just devolves into a shoot 'em up and more current culture indoctrination. Sometimes I wish they would simply explore strange new worlds.
@@DRINKERSBALDHEAD That's probably the most racist comment I've seen on any Star Trek related video. Shit writing, shitting all over canon, and keep the white people off the screen. Yeah, that's what Trek is all about. You're an idiot and a racist.
As a life long fan, I should be over the moon at the amount of star trek output currently. Sadly, ST now is made for people who don't like ST, especially Lower Decks. STD first 2 seasons is nothing less than cultural vandalism. Strange New Worlds is the first decent output in decades. Thank God for Orville!
I'm a Disco lover, but I had patience with the show; in the first two episodes the mutiny was very disturbing, and they killed the captain that I liked more than Burnham in those episodes. But the rest of the season was great. I've rewatched the first two seasons of Disco several times, but for some reason watched the the episodes of S3 and S4 when they premiered and haven't felt like watching them again. I've accepted that Emperor Georgiou has been "redeemed", because I want Michelle Yeoh to have her own ST show; but I can't help but think that there's no way a fascist, murderous cannibal white dude would have ever been given a second chance.
Every time I hear Pike say hit it (make it so and engage we’re already taken I guess) I think of Blues Brothers. Spock: It's 106 light years to Sector 001, we got a fresh load of dilithium crystals, half a bowl of gagh, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses. Pike: Hit it.
Bottom line fellas, NuTrek creators severely misjudged the world at-large, and the potential of the fan base. Now, after several years of utterly floundering with their monstrosity, they are finally trying to actually make good Trek, with fans in mind. NOW, By the 10th episode of SNW, it appears that they are on the right path. Will they keep it up? Who knows. But the TRUTH, everyone basically hated their abysmal rendition of Star Trek. So, after eating lots of crow, and a series of course corrections, they appear to have finally gotten the picture, and are now returning to a style of making a show that people can possibly fall in love with. I pray that they don't drop the ball again, because if they do, i fear that it will kill Star Trek for good, and I truly do not believe that they can come back from that, if it happens... Also, personally I really hope they stop making so many different shows, put everything on SNW, and deliver a well written, classy, 25 episode season, like it ought to be. They should hire whoever wrote the last episode to write them all, because that 10th episode finally felt and looked like actual Star Trek... Bravo... Ultimately, that's what everyone wants in a new Star Trek show. It's so simple. Why can't they see that? I wonder... Anyway, that's my 2 cents, for what it's worth... Jake... Out...
The thing is... If they want me back, they have to start from scratch because they jettisoned all the good will of the fans. The thing is... they didn't have to. I can sit and nitpick their episodes, but if they admitted they rebooted the show in a new continuity, nitpicks wouldn't be valid in a new continuity based on Classic Trek. They would become observations of the divergence that have occurred. Really, SH shot themselves in the foot and then blamed the fans for shooting them. You can't talk to a company so out of touch with reality. So while I'm happy to see they are starting to listen... they could just as quickly revert back to type after tasting a modicum of success
@@davfree9732 I agree with you on this point. It's like they, in a small bubble of like thinkers, assumed the whole world saw life as they did, and wrote a show with their twisted ideals front and center, then were absolutely shocked and dismayed to realize that almost no one actually wanted to watch that nonsense. Personally, I think SNW is, by the end of the season, getting better and feeling more like Trek, but they were relying on great writing from "Balance of Terror" who knows if they can continue to deliver with their own writing. I can see that they are trying, tho, to make a change for the better. However, Damning the Canon and blaming fans for their own lack of education and understanding has to stop, if they ever want to recover from their own self inflicted wounds. Then, if they can do some credible writing, they might be able to right the ship.
@@untetheredlive Aye. By the end of QoM I would have preferred to hear the Romulan Commander address Pike, based in their experiences. Not Kirks. Something along the lines of, "As I told you, in the eyes of my people you are a weak man. Perhaps a good one, but one who has brought war to our people. In another life, I could have called you friend." or... "In your efforts I see the hand that would take mine were I not bound by duty. But it is duty I serve. And for your weakness in the eye's of my people you have condemned my crew and ship to death. Would that in another life, I might have called you friend. But in this moment as you think on the actions that brought us to this... all I can say is farewell." Pike's actions right at the end didn't warrant the speech meant for Kirk, that Kirk and the Commander earned in their battle of wits against the other. Pike's actions were the opposite. Trying to refrain from destroying the Commander that gave him the opportunity to radically change history with the opening Pike gave him. The Commanders speech should have bene for Pike. A script writer on their game would have seen that and written it accordingly. As it stands, they copy pasta'd without giving a hoot who was in command. And if peoples opinions don't change based on who they are facing... Then SH is saying it doesn't matter who is in the chair. ... Which is one step away from saying 'Anybody can be Thor/Spiderman/insert name here" Which is ironic because the episode clearly demonstrates that it did matter who was in the chair. Except to the writer writing character dialogue.
@@davfree9732 yep... except, I honestly don't believe that the writers of NuTrek even understand rank, or command. They definitely write like it doesn't exist. I am not even sure the characters know what their rank is. This is certainly true for ST Discovery. At least, Pike kinda acts like a Captain in command. Bit I do see your point about earning the moment.
Incredible breakdown, guys. Well done! You had poll asking who is the most responsible for the problems: Moonvies, Fuller, Kurtzman…? Certainly, they all played a roll, but at the end of the day, the buck stops with the man in charge-and in this case, that’s Kurtzman. I hate to keep dumping on Kurtzman, because I greatly admire how prolific he is and he’s done some good things (I personally loved his reboot of “Hawaii Five-0;” I literally never missed an episode; “Clarice” was a good, if failed, attempt as well.) But I didn’t respect Kurtzman’s multiple attempts in interviews to throw Fuller under the bus for the issues, when Fuller was long since out of the picture. Fuller may have made some bad calls, but he was gone; Alex Kurtzman was the man in charge. He could have corrected the ship at any time, but he doubled down on bulldozing canon. That was and is Discovery’s (and to a certain degree, even “Strange New Worlds’”) primary divisive issue: the insistence that these shows are direct prequels to The Original Series, set in the same continuity as TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, while blatantly ignoring and overwriting the canon of those legacy series. Furthermore, every time I’ve seen Kurtzman speak about Star Trek, he further convinces me that even after running the franchise for years now, he’s still never taken the time to actually sit down and WATCH any of the classic series. And that’s the first responsibility of a writer: research. And the research couldn’t be easier: just watch the damned show! He won’t do it. I guess he’s too busy (but he’s the guy in charge, so it’s his responsibility).
"foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." F'ing love Disco, SNW, Picard etc. I like the art of writers, directors, and actors along with the skill of producers to make this thing we call show. Evolution folks.
Interesting take, I never felt early Discovery was female centric, it always felt almost like the opposite, like some 15 year old boy trying to make Trek edgy and dark in order to make it seem cooler, also Ash, Saru and Sarek, were featured prominently in season 1, all of them non LGBTQ, not completely evil male characters, plus at the end 2 of the big bads of the season where also female so it's not like they were presenting a clear imbalance. Honestly production design, directing and writing was just subpar, seeing SNW visuals just makes Disco look so muddy and low quality in comparison, and makes it clear they didn't even care to look at TOS or any trek, while designing anything.
That's what's great about people, we can all see things differently and that doesn't mean we're wrong. Hopefully we can always agree to disagree and stay friends. Thank you for sharing!
2 года назад+1
AS LONG AS IT'S STAR TREK I DON'T CARE BECAUSE I AM A REAL FAN THAT LOVES THE SERIES. I GREW UP WITH IT IN THE SIXTIES AND KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO LOSE THE SHOW! As long as they keep making the show i am happy!
Fuller's characterization of why conservatives like Star Trek vs why liberals like Star Trek is so misinformed and hivemind, that it's sickening. No wonder our society is so divided, with small-minded people like him in positions of influence. Obviously, I'm a conservative, and as a long-time Star Trek fan, I know many other conservative Star Trek fans. We ALL have always enjoyed Star Trek for its idealistic vision of the future and its depiction of the way things ought to be. We certainly don't enjoy it for any "fascist" or militaristic overtones. That's ludicrous, and says a lot about the sort of mind that would make such sweeping claims. But we also don't want that idealistic vision to be rammed down our throats as if we're children. And that IS where the divide is between us and liberals... we ALL want the same future. The problem is that liberals want it NOW, while conservatives, realizing that having it NOW means ultimate failure, are aware that doing it slowly means that any social change will stick.
Unfortunately, as a person who used to proudly carry the label of conservative, it is obvious to me that the only people supporting even incremental change are the "liberals" and often that incremental change does come in the form of fictional portrayal of the possibilities first. Many avowed "conservatives" today are reactionaries looking to move us precisely away from any kind or new innovation or positive change. If that is not you, that is fine, but then you may not be the best voice to speak for 2022 "conservatives"
@@jonathangarver First, that incremental change comes in the form of fictional portrayal of the possibilities first, is spot on. That's why Star Trek is beloved by fans of every political persuasion. But your perception of today's conservative is VERY misinformed. You're talking about only the fringes of today's conservative base. Just as it's bad to rope all liberals into the bucket of the far progressive left. They too, are the fringes of the liberal base, yet carry a VERY loud voice. So just because you may hear of conservatives who "move us precisely away from any kind or new innovation or positive change", you're hearing of them only because the media likes to focus on them.
@@bgm-1961 No, unfortunately it isn't the case that I am misinformed on this issue. I am a former Republican organizer and grassroots organizer. You may want to reevaluate your own sources and biases and look at the national trends and forces at play. We all have our biases, my own being a Southern US centric one, but there is nearly nothing forward looking about populist movements dominating the right today. Even by it's very nature "Make America Great Again" is a retro, backwards looking message, yet it is the message that continues to hold sway amongst "conservatives". I wholeheartedly agree with the premise that most people identifying as "conservatives" are in fact not from a historical sense, but that is why the term is losing it's value as a meaningful identifier, at least within the United States. But if you tried to talk to your average "conservatives" here about some Burkean concept of incremental reform and the role of conservatives as a brake to ensure proper reform, they won't just laugh you out, they'll vote you out.
@@jonathangarver OK, fair enough... now that you mention it, I would categorize myself as a "Burkean Conservative". Since my early thirties I've labeled myself as "center-right", and am standing over the "Independent/Republican" line, more toward the Independent side. The actual far right disturbs me very much, so I guess as far away I can get from them without totally jumping to the other side is where I'm at. But the far left upsets me (with being upset worse than being disturbed). So, there's quite a bit of repulsion at play there, as well. Categorize me and conservatives as you will, I still feel that Fuller's characterization of why Conservatives like to watch Start Trek is spectacularly simplistic and misguided.
@@bgm-1961 And that I'd agree with, the automatic assumption that "conservative" equals "militaristic fascism" is a terribly disappointing part of our timeline and trajectory. It isn't true... academically... but the populist have more say than academia right now. I have, admittedly swapped sides, originally to try to force a correction in the GOP, but it hasn't been successful so far. Centrist compromise used to be how things got done, but we'll see when it returns
This is a great video as it relates to describing what has happened behind the scenes over the years. I grew up watching TOS, and I've loved almost everything produced all the way to now.
I don't have any Optimism For Discovery or Picard. Discovery by far is the worst trek ever. Startrek Discovery a Portrait in Current Generational Dysfunctionality and of these times in which we live! Startrek is in a Future time of a Humanity that bettered itself. Picard That is not the Picard I knew. The Writing of these Shows are Horrendous. Strange New World's Though I have some Character issues, Feels like Trek was. SNW Hit it👊
I haven't verified this, William Shatner was interviewed at 2022 Comic-Con. Q. about newer Star Trek series whether any of them rival TOS, he replied "none of them". "I got to know Gene Roddenberry in the three years fairly well. ....... he'd be turning in his grave with some of this stuff." Pleased that W. Shatner has spoken out whether sincere or not so much.
A significant element that has hurt much of the new Star Trek offerings is the overt and overwhelming modern social justice (a.k.a. "woke") bias evidenced in the shows. In its origin, and often at its best, Star Trek seamlessly demonstrated diversity and social consciousness. These details were woven into the background of exciting science fiction storytelling. In contrast, modern producers and writers prefer to put their advocacies at the head of their narratives. The new Star Trek comes off as heavy-handed, unrealistic, disingenuous, and even manipulative in the way previous Star Treks didn't. Instead of stimulating imagination and open-mindedness, the often over-the-top political/social messaging and moralizing have pushed away many traditional fans and mainstream viewers. Star Trek is not alone, as polarized ideologies disguised within entertainment have been increasingly and intrusively embedded into current popular culture projects.
After all is said and done, are you glad we have this New Star Trek or do you wish it had never been made? Let's talk about it below! Please SUBSCRIBE and hit the LIKE button for us! Check out our STAR TREK Final Frontier Captain Pike inspired HIT IT graphic design here >> mixedtees.com/thefinalfrontier Use coupon code: THEPOPCAST for 20% off!
It may have worked. if it wasn't for discovery or Picard we would have not gotten SNW
I wish none of it had been made. The newer “woke” stories actually tarnish the older established lore. I wouldn’t have had so many issues with it if they hadn’t tried to tie everyone and everything back to the other series.. if you have to remind me of the previous better series all the time it just reminds me how bad this current show is..
Star Trek needs to be allowed to die.
Discovery season 2 temporarily saved the franchise. Discovery alone was horrible. Season 1, Season 3 - terrible stopped watching the franchise. Picard season 1 was terrible. I'd seen enough. I don't care about the franchise anymore. It isn't Star Trek. Ironically, Oroville is doing a better job at Trek stories than Paramount, and Oroville ain't that great.
We now have Lower Decks! Of course I'm happy!
(Which was inspired, surely, by The Orville, but it's a self-parody. That's awesome!) Mike McMahon (sp?) RULES! RITOS! I am getting another tee-shirt. 😁
Some things are unpredictable.
P.S. -- Not crazy about Prodigy. It's for kids and I'm not a kid - and I don't really like that style of animation. With Lower Decks, it's almost like watching live action, not animation. It's wondrous! So, without new Trek, it wouldn't exist.
I like SNWs.
Do I wish it had never been made no. Do I wish Brian Fuller wasn't signed on as showrunner yes absolutely. The ONLY good thing to come out of Discovery is SNW. That's it. The CBS CEO knew it was going to piss off fans and too make matters worse CBS shut down all fan films. To push Brian Fuller's vision of the future not Gene Roddenberry's. This is the second time Star Trek has been used to launch something. Voyager premiered to launch UPN and Discovery premiered to launch CBS all access. The key is to give fans what they want not piss them off give them a cheap knock off and say like it or watch Star Trek fade away. 🤔
I was deeply disappointed in and despised how CBS treated fan film makers and Klingon language schools and hid Star Trek behind a paywall. Those people kept Trek alive when no Trek was being produced. It's a great way to kill a franchise.
Great point, that was very scummy
So true Disney did it with star wars declared all the books non canon, and then proceeded to mine those stories which is good but still a little crappy. Games Workshop of Warhammer40k fame did it too to all the creative animators, which is the lifeblood of franchises
I was a fan of Star Trek Continues and was devastated when they and other fan made series were shut down and replaced with Discovery. A series that IS NOT in keeping with Gene Roddenberry's hopeful vision of the future and instead, as highlighted by this video the vision of Fuller.
I love what they did keeping people from stealing their stuff
I have a case where CBS spies stole a character from our friends fan game they stole and used for Picard season one.
It wasnt actually copyrighted but come on already
"Michelle Yeoh...a rising star". Perhaps to us Western audiences, but she's been a big star for several years in Asia. I think Western audiences first saw her in CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON in 2000, where she was one of the three main leads. She also starred in MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA (2005) and GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY VOL. 2 (2017). She's certainly a celebrity in her native Malaysia.
Indeed, Yeoh, Michelle had been an established film star in Malaysia and elsewhere in the "Milk Tea" region by the time she co-starred with Pierce Brosnan in Bond #18 (1997).
She was first seen to Western audiences in James Bond film Tomorrow Never Dies 1997
She’s a superstar, not a rising star.
She’s been a HK action legend since 1985 - even in western media with 1997s Tomorrow Never Dies …
Picard and Discovery are the proof that "different isn't always good".
Thank you!!!!
the TNGdiditallbef'Orville is proof that doing the same things over and over is boring and derivative
@@SC-mq1eh well, I’ll let you know when I get bored with it.
@@jlomesou Likewise. TBH while The Orville has a few issues, I'm just thankful the writers have a better grounding in SciFi and are willing to really go for character drama over tense situations.
It's like NuTrek's writers are a bunch of 30 year olds who have only seen big franchise movies in cinema. So far there has been only one based on a script... and that was a short story.
The writers need to go where DS9's Duet went when they adapted 'Man in the Glass Booth'. They took that story and adapted it to their world where the actors did the work, instead of a writer trying to figure out how to make their characters explain it all.
True true. I like discovery for the first two seasons then after that it’s like most of the crew does whatever they want to do despite whatever the captain ordered. Which they all have all their little agendas and then even the captain thinks she doesn’t have to listen to Admirals or anybody with authority. She puts her boyfriend more important than the ship. I don’t know where this is going but I don’t think I’m going to continue.
There is nothing that jar jar Abrams and Alex Klutzsman can't ruin.
Well put!
@@DRINKERSBALDHEAD too bad that was more important than telling good stories and giving characters we ALL could care about.
@@DRINKERSBALDHEAD that's not what people hate about new track. New track is dark and torturous and painful and unenjoyable to watch. There is no hope, no optimism, no idealism. It's Star Trek in name only. There's no reason that diversity and inclusion and good storytelling and Canon respectful plots can't coexist.
I'm one of those First Trek fans. I was 9 and totally captivated when ToS came into being. I've been one of those who did the conventions (still do, just did a panel at Comicpaloosa), collected stuff, wrote fanzine material and generally pined for the show when it went off in 1968. I was a founding member of Starbase Amarillo in the early 1980s. I once had one of the "footie pajamas" uniforms from ST-The Motion Picture. I've been a fan of the movies (even the reboot, it's just an alternate timeline.) I was ok with Next Gen, it took me a while to like it but it was good to see the Federation back in the universe. I thought DS9 was ok, it grew on me as it went on (Quark is still the epitome of unbridled capitalism and I can't count how many times I've thought "he's Ferengi" in life.) I've never warmed to Captain Janeway and Voyager, it was just not really Trek to me. I watched, but not avidly. It was Enterprise that caught my attention and made me love what the new shows were doing. Archer was brilliant, the show felt like it belonged in the Trek universe.
Moonves totally underestimated fandom. The paywall stopped me from watching anything, even my beloved Trek. It was very, very obvious that he and CBS didn't respect us, all they wanted was money. My thought on it was "it's not going to be Trek and I'm not paying for it." I could see what was happening. And yes, I'm not of the "young watcher" generation, but I'm someone who has kept up with technology, and had been streaming since it was new. I could see the difference in what CBS was doing and wasn't going to be taken in by their "shiny new Trek" thing. I didn't go up to watch until it became Paramount + and had shown a willingness to not just see fans as money machines. We started watching during Covid lockdown, we've caught up with the series they have. Even Discovery. Not the greatest fan until they moved into the far future. It's grown on me. Picard is different, not bad, just harder to recognize as "Trek." Feels like a retirement sendoff, which I can understand. But I LOVE Strange New Worlds. It's got the feel of the Trek I've loved forever. Pike and his crew are a breath of fresh, recycled ship's air and not since Enterprise have I found myself scheduling time to get to see it. I wish my siblings had been alive to see it, they would have loved it. My ex missed it, he, like me, was a huge fan but passed away last July, he was looking forward to seeing it.
I want to see the franchise continued, in whatever form it takes. I'll always be a fan. Thank you for doing this video, it confirmed much of what I had thought, and it also gave me hope that it's going to keep giving fans new things to love, far into the future.
Ditto. Grew up on TOS, was lukewarm about TNG, didn't watch the others until Enterprise, which just felt more like "Trek" to me. I enjoyed the reboot movies (starting in 2009), but they still felt a little hollow. Watched first 2 seasons of Discovery. Never grew to like it. Haven't watched Picard at all since I was never a Picard fan anyway. Strange New Worlds is like a breath of fresh air. It's not great Trek, but good enough to keep me coming back every week for more. I too appreciate this video.
@@SwingingInTheHood at least with strange new worlds it feels like they're trying to make something for the fans instead of trying to make something to piss off the fans,...
Watch The Orville, it is the Trek you are looking for.
I'm one of those Original Star Trek Fans. Since sitting down in front of my family's newly purchased Color TV in 1965. I'm fine with Start Trek Changing. 'Canon' is too close to 'religion' for me. Take us where "No One has Gone Before.' THAT is the legacy of Star Trek, not inviolable 'Canon.'
@@the21stcenturydavincibegin35 "Canon is too close to religion" is such a perfect way to phrase what I've been saying a lot lately. Sometimes ignoring canon can be a sign of poor writing, but taking it too seriously can be just as bad.
As a lifetime fan of all things Trek, I can honestly say that the best Star Trek on TV the last 6 years is... The Orville.
Totaly agree
Agreed
with Orville and Strange New Worlds we had the strongest ST year in decades
ABSOLUTELY 100% correct 👏
YES!!!
I definitely think that some credit has to go to Anson Mount and Ethan Peck as they are doing great jobs as Pike and Spock and really give a Star Trek feel back to the audience
Sadly the damage is done, as much as they do a good job, STD has already done irreparable damage, decanonizing these 3 shows and starting fresh is the only way to fix it.
@@TheZamaron it’s already off canon and has been since STD’s first episode.
Spock never had a sister. They retconned her in and they Tried to create a justification for why we never knew about her… The fact is, Burnham never needed to be Spocks sister. She didn’t need to have Spocks father as her own. They used recognisable Trek assets to prop her up instead of developing their own original ideas.
In QoM, the reboot version of BoT, we see the same. They added some original aspects but after all the changes to that timeline, at the end of the Romulan Commanders life, he repeats the words he spoke to Kirk. Nothing that happened differently mattered to the writers who wrote that episode. They just lifted high chunks of BoT and dropped it into QoM. By then the Commander saw Pike was weak whereas Kirk was tenacious.
Though given what we’ve seen in STD, Picard and many episodes of SNW, writing is not Secret Hideouts strong suit. The writers don’t have the breadth of experience to write or adapt a piece of work.
DS9’s duet shows a great screenplay, the man in the glass booth, converted into a Trek story. SH miss the target every time they try to adapt a story… and worse, they actually tried to lift from another established IP. Alien…. It’s as if the writers are all 30 and never deep dived into sci fi outside of big budget IP’s in the cinema.
@@davfree9732 I know, which is why I massively hate STD, it breaks even the most basic visual continuity,
@@TheZamaron There is always the Orville.
Anson Mount and Ethan Peck are doing fabulous in their roles. Mount as Pike will be one of the best liked Captains of all Trek series I think if things continue to go well.
Strange New Worlds is the saving grace in this era of Trek. One can only hope that its success is noted by creators across the franchise. Hopefully the formula will influence future shows.
why? why should each series copy the other series or previous? we now live in world where we can. pick and. chose what we like in trek - oh wait we've always been able to do that- let's continue the trend
Yes, it's a great series. I look forward to S2. I really enjoy Picard as well. Anything with 7 of 9 and Picard are my favs.
SNW could be better with less of the homely women characters and more of the hotties like the other ST series had. That little twit girl a security chief ? GMAB! Could they have made a worse choice? And La' an? my god what a terrible pick! It's like watching an frugly squirrel tangle with a grizzly bear!
Yes I do appreciate Strange New Worlds most of all! Isn't "Lower Decks" HILARIOUS!!😂
It's not that great. They could be focusing on telling great stories like Top Gun Maverick did. I watch old Star Trek over and over because it tells timeless stories.
The Orville is the true vision of Gene Roddenberry. Rick Berman is the reason for this I believe
Berman is not on The Orville, but Brannon Braga who worked under Berman on TNG, VOY, & ENT is one of the showrunners on The Orville with Jon Cassar (of 24) and of course, Seth MacFarlane. Also, Trek veterans Jonathan Frakes and Robert Duncan MacNeil have directed episodes.
@@thebrewingsailor9172 That right I knew that but my brain got the 2 mixed up. Worse yet I literally was just watched the last episode and talked about that.
@@jeffereyhopkins750 No worries, you were on the right track. Just had some of the details mixed up. Cheers.
I am female, almost 71 years old and love all the Star Trek shows. I am just thankful they are being made. I am not a fundamentalist when it come to Star Trek. I like the bright future of the original but that is not realistic for me and I know that it takes all of the different shows to make that future. I don't watch the cartoons but I love the rest of the different shows.
Grew up with TNG &DS9, miss the optimistic future trek use to show. I hope SNW brings it back.
Wouldn’t exactly call DS9 optimistic.
@@priyonjoni
Yes, ds9 wasn't too optimistic, but still a good show.
SNW brought it back. Finally Star Trek is good again.
Paramount needs to fire Kurtzman and bring back Berman, Moore and Braga back. Yes, they made mistakes, but I trust them as people who actually worked with or under Roddenberry than the so-called “fans” currently in charge.
That is an excellent idea
As long a Kurtzman and JJ Abrams have anything to do with Star Trek, Star Trek is dead to me.
CBS Should have hired AXANAR Productions and let them take Star Trek to a new level.
Now Axanar was Trek!
Clearly Fan made series like Axanar and Star Trek Continues are what fans wanted to see. What did we get instead? Discovery!!!! 😡😡🤬🤬
Great video with a fantastic VO!
I still have not gone back to Trek since i heard SNW is using January 6th as the basis for WWIII. There is the liberal/conservative divide right there.
Spot on. They just can't seem to stop pushing an agenda. SNW is more of the same. Star Trek Continues is how you properly make a TOS era show.
Thanks! I was worried the music was to loud, thanks for watching. About SNW:
You're totally right but in defense of SNW, they showed both Jan 6th and the BLM Riots... They were trying to say the divide is what caused it, not a specific event. Thanks for the compliment!
@@ThePopcast agreed with your thoughts in the second half of the comment. I didn't get the impression (as Michelle said) that the events of January 6th alone kicked off World War 3 whatsoever, it's obvious they were talking about the divide in the country as you say. And the riots you mentioned as well as January 6th (extremes of all sides) are just examples of that divide. Besides the events of that day (1/6) are now a historical event in the fabric of this country, like the Bush v. Gore Supreme Court decision, the Montgomery bus boycotts (1956), the Branch Davidian compound incident in Waco, TX (1993) or the Murrah building bombing by McVeigh in OKC (1995).
@@ThePopcast Oooh, i didn't know that! Thanks for letting me know- i was totally ignorant on that point.
Strange New Worlds is fantastic. Anson Mount is perfect as Captain Pike. He was the best part of Discovery. While I have watched both Discovery and Picard, I have been very, disappointed with them. I am hoping for a far better final season of Picard. I can’t wait for the next season of SNW.
Star Trek Strange new words is what I have been waiting for.
Keep the awesome work . I finally feel like Star Trek has returned.
I have been watching Star Trek since the early 80s. My favorite has always been TNG but love them all...Including the "new Trek". All of the series have had issues. But all of them are great. I look forward to what will come from Star Trek. Like you said can't please everyone all of the time, which just means haters are going to hate.
Same, right back to early 80's!
There is nothing 'great' about STD it is a deliberate slap in the face to the very people that made the franchise the success the fans the real fans the ones who have watched it since it was on air not since the '80s since the f****** 60s
I'm not going to apologize that I was born in the 70s so not able to watch them like my parents did back then. Like I said. - haters are going to hate. Pfft the 'real fans'! This is why fandoms have become toxic. Like what you like. We will like what we like. But no reason to pull out the 'I'm better because I was alive when it first aired' card. I love Star Wars as well but was only 1 when it came out in the theater, but that doesn't mean that I like it less than the fans that watched it in the theater!
- Guess the comment got deleted but I'm leaving this up just in case another 'Real Fan" from the 60s decides to attack me because of the age difference.
@@SolNexus I would never attack someone over their age. It's not like you chose the date. However.. I've been watching the series since the late 1960s. I was a child of the 1960s. What that means is I have a different perspective from someone that's a "Johnny come lately". Those people are not going to have the points of reference for context of the programming. It's not your fault, it is what it is though.
Thanks, Podcaster. I'm happy with all Trek as an original Trekker from 9/8/66, except Section 31.
And I LOVE Section 31. Oh well.....
@@trekkersdelight9677, and see, there is a Trek for us all!! 🇺🇸 This is America, dadgum it! BTW, where is my flying car 🚗 that I was promised?
Strange New Worlds really helped bring back the Star Trek I was used too. Discovery was hard to watch at times. Picard season 2 was much better and season 3 excites me for the future.
Picard s2 was terrible. It had two good episodes. It was everything I hate about modern trek.
SNW is the only saving grace trek has now.
@@stonehorn4641 SNW was more fun… but it still demonstrates the problem with Secret Hideouts writing room and production team. They are afraid to be completely, 100% original with their screenplays within the era of Trek the show is set in.
If it’s not a member berry that’s 25% different then it’s canon breaking with a mischievous, ‘but there’s a reason it’s different.’
Discovery was hard to watch AT TIMES? Decapitated Infants much?
Couldn't have said it better.
Picard S2 is by far the worst garbage ever produced under the Trek banner, it was embarassingly, cringeworthily bad attimes. Discovery has really plumbed the depths of crap Tv too.
Who else appreciates Enterprise even more after watching Discovery, Picard.
@@DRINKERSBALDHEAD you just go around posting the same work bulshit without any thought or Insight? Clearly you do.
Everyone with a brain, Sam. And that explains Andy's comment.
More. More. More. Make it so!
THANK YOU for EXPOSING these new trek MONSTERS!
Good video. Well done. SNW made me look forward to the next week's episode again. That is something I haven't felt since DS9.
Same!!
Same with me I remember when I was a kid I couldn't wait for the next week's episode. I didn't have it with voyager and Enterprise. I definitely do with strange new worlds it's actually very exciting to have Star Trek done right again
So it’s because of people like you that Star Trek Enterprise was canceled? Great job, dude.
@@indranidasgupta8982 Enterprise season 4 was great. It was Les Moonves who is the reason Enterprise was cancelled. Enterprise had finally hit its stride at that point. Regrettable that Mr. Moonves hated Star Trek.
@@GwonkReefkeeping moonves was one reason. Trek fans abandoning the show while it was in production was a large part of the other reason - bad ratings. I know. I was there. I was part of TrekUnited - we were at the paramount gates BEGGING TPTB NOT TO CANCEL THE SHOW DESPITE THE RATINGS. I was on TrekBBS every day having to listen to so-called Real Trek fans whining on and on and on about Archer being a horrible captain, about how the show was the worst trek ever, about how awful the theme song was, about how stupid ANIS WAS, about the Beebs effing it all up. You can’t do revisionist history with me. I started watching Trek during the TOS reruns back in the 70s and have been with the franchise EVERY FUCKING STEP OF THE WAY. I’ve seen how Trek fans who call themselves Real Fans abandon not just Enterprise but also DS9 during their production and then do fancy footwork decades later pretending they loved and watched those shows back then and were really dedicated fans of the franchise. LOL… NOT!
I finally watched DS9 start finish… I had watched it here and there when it aired… but this year I sat down and binged it…. It is easily now my all time favorite Star Trek. I think what I love about DS9 so much, is you have a show that still feels Trekish, has the Federation we know so well, but they are just 1 aspect of it. s1 cast 4 aliens and 4 humans, perfect blend. It’s the kind of Trek I always wanted. And being a huge fan of Hannibal, I was so hoping for Bryan Fuller’s Star Trek. I hope Bryan Fuller either get Hannibal back going like he’s trying or somehow gets another chance at Trek
Fuller pushed his own agenda on discovery, that's why it was so bad
DS9 is and was the shiznit.
Fantastic video. I was not aware of the “war” that underlay the production of the new Star Trek series. It was great to learn about all the personalities that impacted what actually got delivered. I have watched Star Trek since it was originally launched. The Original Series, The Next Generation, Discovery, Picard, and Strange New Worlds are all favorites to me. Though I I found Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise less enjoyable than the others, there were things about each of them I valued. I embrace the somewhat darker outlook of Discovery and Picard as more consistent with the Science Fiction genre as a whole. It is less comfortable, but more pragmatic. I found the first season of Discovery to be some of the best acting and science fiction I have ever seen in a TV sci fi series. The interplay between Shaniqua Martin-Green and Michelle Yeoh was enthralling. Most of all I found Discovery to be DARING. I am glad they boldly went where no one had gone before. I find Strange New Worlds as fun to watch as Discovery, BUT they are quite different. I greatly enjoy their interpretation of older episodes from TOS. They are true to the original themes, but thoroughly modern, with their own brilliant presentation. Thanks for this time to engage on something I love so much. I am a recent subscriber. I must say, I love The Popcast!
Thank you my friend! Comments like this is why we keep working on these.
If you found Voyager and DS9 less enjoyable than Discovery then you're a moron.
I can't believe you consider Discovery to be sci-fi. You clearly don't know any sci-fi at all.. .
@@WoodysAR I definitely see Star Trek as sci-fi. What do you classify it as? What on TV do you see as sci-fi?
Excellent coverage as always!
Thank you BlackCell!
@@DRINKERSBALDHEAD what's a whire?
I was one of those groaning about new Trek shows in the 80s and 90s, but got sucked in by the end of the first or second season of each one. Five years later, nuTrek still isn't cutting it. As for SNW, all I can say is that not every single episode has bored or annoyed me. to tears.
67 year old woman here advising I have always loved Star Trek, well at least most of them. I was never a fan of Enterprise or DS9. I didn't understand what all the negative comments were about regarding Discovery. I wasn't happy I had to pay to see it but I had no problem with the show and liked all the episodes and story line. I LOVE Strange New Worlds and wish its first season had more episodes. I had no idea there was so much turmoil over Star Trek until I watched this great video. Thanks for all the info.
Hey Bonnie! Thanks for commenting, I really appreciate it. Strange New Worlds was amazing, I can't wait for season 2. What was your favorite character? Mine was Hemmer :(
@@ThePopcast I was rather upset when Hemmer sacrificed himself. I wasn't sure about him at first, but he grew on me quickly to the point of becoming a favorte for me as well. He's one of those characters I wish had another season before he left. Kind of like Doctor Who actors that I wish had a few more seasons. I've watched most of Disco and while I don't find it to be bad... let's put it this way, I've had more strong emotional reactions to S1 of SNW and S3 of Orville than any of STD I've watched thus far.
@@rainbeau88 disco is to Emotion, ,
Wow. I had heard hints that Fuller didn’t get Trek but you’ve made a strong case that he as guilty as Kurtzman for producing the shallow, dour, lecture series for children that STD and STP ended up being. SNW is a good start. It’s what STD should have been. I was so psyched in the beginning I loved Michelle Yeoh, Jason Isaacs and Sonequa Martin-Green from their previous work. Then I watch season 1. It was very disappointing. It was neither Trek nor good SF. It was an expensive multi hour film written by Twitter. I still have hope that SNW can be great, but I’m very leery of STP season 3. Picard almost never acts like Picard. It’s like watching you beloved grandpa suffering with dementia. His greatness surfaces once and a while to punctuate your despair.
When we were done with the research I was actually frustrated with Fuller. Mostly because he's always thrown Kurtzman under the bus even though the whole direction of the show was his idea.
I agree. " It was an expensive multi hour film written by Twitter."
The first two episodes of STD felt like a crime drama with a rookie cop making mistakes with a sci-fi facade on top. The writing was lazy and the dialogue awful.
I was born in 1965 and Star trek has always been part of my life, my personality, and my journey. From the beginning I was infatuated with it, deeply hooked, and as it evolved and changed over time, threw the growing pains we both did suffer, having to endure changes, some good and some bad, our World's playing off of each other as we evolved. I am just greatfull that we are both still here, at this time, where the possibility of are realities merging into one truth, has never been greater as the disclosure of alien life and advanced technologies are finally starting to be released. I can only hope that we both survive long enough to see it come to fruition.
I love Strange New Worlds and look forward to a Section 31.
Same
It doesn't matter! Who you are! When you have 7 of 9 blasting ppl with a laser rifle, kicking butt and taking names, that's a good freaking show. Period!
This was a well researched and presented video, yet I kept waiting for the fundamental change of ‘New Trek’ brought on by Lower Decks and this never happened. A return to episodic adventures, appealing to long time Trekkies, bringing back the characters we loved… long before Strange New Worlds. How was Lower Decks ever green lit given what is described in this video? I’ve heard a lot of people say Lower Decks is one of the best Trek series of all time, and yet it seemingly is ignored outside a short reference.
I agree that Lower Decks was glossed over here, and I would like to know more about how it fit into this whole picture. As for myself, I am one of those who had walked away from Star Trek ever since Enterprise, and it was Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks that brought me back.
It's animated so I think it gets written off as something "else". Hearing there's going to be a LD/SNW crossover episode, if true, will cement it in canon.
There's honestly tons of smart and funny ways they could even integrate the animation as a 2d mirror universe or something like that, but yeah maybe besides SNW definitely the best Trek of this century IMO.
I love all the Star Treks with all there diversity and different visions of the future. END OF RANT!
So....when do we get Star Trek: Stargazer? I need more Capt. Seven.
I would like to see "New Frontiers" as another "Star Trek" programme. It had Cpt. Mykenzie Calhoun and others from the novel series. I liked him.
I believe that everyone who loves Star Trek . Is just keeping the franchise alive . TOS and current trek. I love them all . WE NEED SOME TOYS AND ACTION FIGURES.
I'm just a Trekkie. I like all of the shows. I think Burnham is a female Kirk. Strange new worlds is great. Showing the Enterprise before Kirk. Pike is a nice change from others captains. Picard is a nice way to lead into another series. Maybe Seven will get a show. She looked good in the captains chair. They need to find a spot for Warf. They could always replace Picard with Riker since he's already been on the show. The possibilities are endless.
Love “Captain Pike” it’s like he’s almost “Kirk” and Puhleese don’t show Shatners sneeze-laughing ever again
Characters and stories of Strange New World are very good and entertaining, vast improvement over other recent series. Discovery hopefully will go episodic so we don't drag on stories like last season. Hopefully there will be better character building on Discovery. I like Book who is now gone. Michael is moderately okay. We need some new additional stand out characters in the crew to get invested in. The writers need to take a page from SNW and find better actors for the bridge crew, build their characters and write better stories. It should not be centered around Michael all the time. It is like totally different writers and showrunners for SNW and Discovery.
They need to redo Michael’s backstory and make it into some kind of an alternate universe thing.
I like old trek because there was never any desire to herald a characters race or gender. The diversity was natural, not "we gotta have our first". They just did it and it was natural.
The CBS All Access streaming service was already up and running a year before Discovery, their premiere show was The Good Fight and they were already streaming all the other CBS shows including the first season of Supergirl.
Now, I'm going to completely disagree with you that Discovery is not "Built on Hope." Unless you didn't see the last episode of season one, there is no way you can make that statement because the entire point of that episode - and frankly the entire point of the season - is the process of HOLDING ONTO HOPE in the face of nothing but entropy and destruction. Despite the pessimism of stopping the War by committing genocide against the Klingons, the Discovery crew all REJECT that option and stand together to choose another path. "WE ARE STARFLEET." Reaching that point, was the point of having a Mirror Universe Captain in command, it was the point of going into the Mirror Universe and living as they do - in dog eat dog desperation - they LEARNED A LESSON there, that the rest of Starfleet had unfortunately forgotten. It was only because of that experience that they could stand up and *Demand* the choice of hope.
In Season 2, Captain Pike is absolutely about Hope. Also, he's Non-LGBTQ and Not Evil. In Season 3 that is the case again as the Discovery rekindles the optimism of a hopelessly damaged Starfleet after the burn. "You made us look up!" And in Season 4 they again battled negativity coming from Book who lost his entire world to the DMA versus optimism that they can reach and communicate with the 10-C race in a way that will save their worlds. ALL OF IT is about Hope. If you don't see that - you're blind.
Secondly, Spock disobeyed orders and planned a mutiny in The Menagerie where he kidnapped Pike to take him back to Talos IV. He did it again with the entire crew in This Side of Paradise. The entire Enterprise Crew committed Mutiny when they stole the Enterprise in Star Trek III. But Burnham disobeying Georgio is a bridge too far? Pffft.
Isaacs was playing a Mirror Universe Captain - of course he knew that was a major change, to put it mildly.
How exactly was Discovery "Targeted for younger audiences" when it had more adult themes, more violence, and more curse words? How's that work? Discovery was not a CW styled show - it was a Star Trek version of the Battlestar Galactica reboot, which was highly popular and by Star Trek alum Ronald D. Moore.
"A lot of this is conjecture" - yeah, that's an understatement.
Bringing in the Enterprise and Pike wasn't Kurtzman's idea - it was Akiva Goldsman who wanted that and ultimately pushed to get Strange New Worlds made. That was his dream.
On the issue of Canon, frankly if you watch more of Enterprise you'll see many more examples of hologram technology. There were even examples of it going back the animated series - so Discovery was not really that far outside of canon at all. And the change in the Klingons was something that had already happened during Star Trek: Into Darkness - which was the most current piece prior to Discovery. They were frankly *following* canon more closely if you paid attention to that and Enterprise.
Lastly, SNW is not 'better" Trek - not compared to the best Trek ever which was DS9 by far - but it's a good show. If it stops the incessant whining about having an "episodic" show finally, then good. Those that like having limited shallow stories can go enjoy it and the rest of us can have the rest of Trek which is still taking challenges, still trying new things, and still venturing out into the unknown with guts and courage. It may not always be perfect, but it always swings for the fences.
A couple quick things:
1. "Entropy and Destruction" are the wrong words to use, 90% of their problems in S1 was self inflicted
.
2. It wasn't Akiva Goldsman who thought up Strange New Worlds, it was actually first though up by fans at the end of S2 and there was a huge petition for a Pike led series, Akiva was simply tasked with making it happen by Kurtzman and the TPB.
3. Discovery was certainly targeted at the CW Adult Youth population BECAUSE its excessive and unnecessary use of cursing, baseless violence and overly dramatic characters. These are all themes that the early 20's demo go crazy over.
4. "On the issue of Canon" We never mentioned HOLO tech but it certainly didn't fit, and they made it very clear that Star Trek Into Darkness was not in the same universe or timeline as Discovery. They went out of their way to separate the newer movies with the series. As someone who has seen all of Enterprise nearly 30 times I can tell you there are things that fit and there are things that don't. I wont nit pick little things but as writers of the show they should be.
Lastly, art is subjective and if you like DS9 or Discovery most of all then more power to you. We aren't criticizing your interests or taste. We are however criticizing writing, casting and attention to detail.
We are commenting on the care taken in making our favorite form of Art, and reporting on Who, What, When Where, and Why it was made.
That's our job, if the facts we gathered don't sit well with you we can't control that. If you don't like any specific opinions expressed after those facts are presented then feel free to criticize us, we can take it.
Thanks for commenting and having this conversation with me. #LLAP
@@ThePopcast
swearing is excessive? umm really? and modern trek is just trying to appeal to modern audiences, not "adult children" - it's the boomer man babies that they aren't specifically targeting - but that's a never happy lot anyway, so why bother!
@@ThePopcast #1) I would argue that's not true - the war wasn't Burnham's fault as T'Kuvma was hellbent on his plan to use war as a war to reunite the disparate Klingon houses. If you're arguing that being a prequel caused "problems", suddenly being a prequel doesn't have any impact on SNW now does it? I think those were largely "problems of perception."
#2) Akiva specifically said having a show about Pike is what he wanted as soon as he was brought in to work on Discovery, and that it was his idea to introduce the Enterprise at the end of season 1. It's in this episode of the Ready Room. ruclips.net/video/zNNtdMoYbZw/видео.html It didn't happen because "fans demanded it" that is yet another of the many self-aggrandizing fantasies and conjectures underlying this video.
#3) Using the CW reference is a juvenile way to dismiss the show, frankly almost every network show had become serialized with bits of language and violence from Lost to Scandal, Revenge to Lone Survivor - what they were doing was a current modern TV show on a streaming service where they didn't have any overt censorship rather than a piece of ancient nostalgia from 25 years ago. (SNW is now the nostalgia and it's fun, but it creeks like it's covered in rust too) It was like the Battlestar Reboot contrasted with the original; similar inspiration - different execution. And actually, the first cuss word was actually "Shit" when Tyler realized Lorca was a Captain during "Choose Your pain". It wasn't sensationalized - it was so quick, most people could have missed it entirely. Discovery was very mild compared to how Netflix handled Daredevil and Jessica Jones in contrast to Agents of Shield.
#4) The Holo tech fit in perfectly with what had been previously established in Enterprise as shown by this video. ruclips.net/video/Ewjh0lPRQGI/видео.html
There is little good reason to think that the arrival of the Narada changed Klingon history and development. It's possible that there was a parallel development in both universes toward more genetic "purity" in the wake of the Augment virus, again from Enterprise. This also matches with T'Kuvma's extreme xenophobia.
" We are however criticizing writing, casting and attention to detail. " You are criticizing the entire rationale behind the show while trying to force it into a chauvinistic White cis male context. Are there many women and several LGBTQ persons on the show? Yes. Is that a case of White Cis Male replacement? Perhaps, but point of fact white males are only 30% of America and if you go through Discovery's entire cast - as I have - you can see that White Males are at about 30% representation, including those under prosthetics like Saru and Linus.
Frankly, after 100 years of White men in black and red face - from Amos and Andy to Chuck Norris as "Geronimo" to "Soul Man" with C. Thomas Howell, Scarlet Johansen in Ghost in the Machine and Benedict Cumberbach as "Khan" the history of Hollywood replacing ethnic actors with white actors is long and horrific. ruclips.net/video/1pBQAt2YO_Y/видео.html
I have an Asian Actor friend - Archie Kao - who was born in Washington DC whose had to leave the US and go to Taiwan to get consistent acting roles. Discovery gets the balance just about right overall. Judging the writing for showing non-straight/white characters as people and not as charicatures (ala Steppen Fetchit) is more truthful and honest - it's not an agenda other than it reverses the previous agenda of white cis male dominance. Everyone judges art from their own individual frame of reference and perspective, you've made yours obvious.
19:16 All those "Can you imagine..." questions? Yeah, I can imagine those scenarios, and that would've been amazing! Tastes change. The way we tell stories on screen has changed. Totally fine if it's not your cup of tea. Enjoy some reruns. I love Discovery; it's the one current show that consistently looks forward.
Well done video. Expresses many of the same concerns I have had, although I have given each new show a chance.
Didn't Europe drop discovery from Netflix
Just checked. It's gone (from Netflix Switzerland).
As someone who watched TNG as a kid growing up the rest of the series to follow, I have not and will not watch the 'new' trek. Fare thee well my fallen compatriots.
@@DRINKERSBALDHEAD WHIRE GUY NEW ALIENS 👽??
I like all of the 'Star Trek' shows. I'm a 'Star Trek' fan, so I like 'Star Trek'. As with the original series, some episodes are better than others. That is the case with every series, film, and novel. But, I am a 'Star Trek' fan, so I like 'Star Trek'.
I wonder if there is a divide between some fans and some "creative types"... specifically, those of us who work in film & television and those of us who do not. To that end, getting any show in production is a minor miracle. This video does an excellent job of describing all of the hands that mix the pot, from the creative to the corporate to the fandom. Another way of looking at it is the industry phrase, "There are always three films - the one that is written, the one that is directed, and the one that is edited." If we add corporate and fandom to the mix... well.
But, I am a 'Star Trek' fan, so I LIKE 'Star Trek'. And, with any one man's vision and/or corporate bottom-line, things evolve. Change is the only constant in the Universe. I am not the first to say that, nor was 'Mr. Spock'. Roddenberry's vision of 'Trek' had to evolve or we would not have had 'Deep Space Nine'. And, the last couple of seasons of 'The Next Generation' might have been very different. Roddenberry created 'Trek' and is its father, but he does not own 'Trek'. Paramount owns 'Trek' and a diverse group of "creative types" are brought in to create new storylines and new content. And, thank God for that because it is great to see diversity in characters, stories, ships, planets, and other aesthetics. The industry has evolved because people have evolved. 'Star Trek' is what it is at any given time... because, the 1960's are different from the 1980's, which are different from the 1990's, which are different from the 2000's, which are different from today. This is true of the entertainment industry, we "creative types", and the fandom. Things evolve.
Now, whether we like change is another question. Remember what 'Kirk' said to the 'Klingon Ambassador' about people being afraid of change. This may not be your father's 'Trek' because this is a different 'Trek'... "infinite possibilities" and all that. But, I am a 'Star Trek' fan, so I like 'Star Trek'. And, for those who do not like new, or old, or parallel 'Trek' for the reasons they believe to be valid in terms of legacy or vision or tone or diversity or some other metric(s)... you are entitled to your opinions because there is even room - in this infinite Universe - for you too.
Loved Strange New Worlds from the moment Pike gave that speech to the Civil War aliens in episode 1. It's my favorite Star Trek since DS9. Was never a big fan of Voyager and Enterprise. Picard and Discovery arnt worth mentioning.
For me I have been a long time for love of all things Star Trek. So I can say that I love all the new Trek that is out now. And so I am 43 years old so I have seen every Star Trek here to date.
That is amazing, same here. I've seen every episode of Star Trek ever made at least twice. My favorite is Voyager and I've watched it nearly 20 times now. What was your all time favorite episode of you mind me asking?
@@ThePopcast Well I just don't have only one favorite episode of Star Trek. I have many favorites from all shows. Like from TOS: The Menagerie part 1&2, TNG: The Best of both worlds, DS9: Rejoined, Voyager: Scorpion part 1&2, Enterprise: Vanishing Point, Discovery: Coming Home, Strnge New World: A Quality Of Mercy. Now there are others that are my favorite but that is to name a few. Now that's just talking about the shows. For the Movies I love them all. That includes the JJ ones as well. Some of all of the movies were not as strong as others but they all still have merit. So when I say I love Star Trek that's what I mean. And so I will never watch The Orville shows because it is a nock off of Star Trek. Now there are other sci-fi that I do like like Star Wars, Stargate: movie and all the shows, Battlestar Galatica and many more. But no matter what Star Trek will always be my favorite and love of them all.
@@britneyhoward98 The Orville is very well done. It honors the spirit of Rodenberry's vision. If you give it a chance, you might like it.
I was on-board with CBS all access from day one. Star Trek catalog is awesome, New Trek is for a new generation, but SNW really embraced what I love about Trek. Great Job Popcast, loved this. Top notch Shane and Brian Thank you
Awesome, I really love SNW - thanks for everything!
Thanks for the great video and I LOVE all Star Trek. I'm just really grateful for the new series..Discovery,Picard, Strange New Worlds,hurrah! For Lower decks,Prodigy, And Short Treks ❤
Futurama was right on the money when they predicted the great Star Trek Wars
😂😂😂😂
That exchange between the newsreaders when one of them confuses the Star Trek Wars with the Star Wars Trek cracks me up. You just don't get writing like that this side of the 00s. 😂
@@AxelWedstar411 there is so much good stuff hidden in Futurama. I'm really hoping they don't mess it up with it comes back this year
We love Star Trek because we lived this kinda life in our past and the series bring out theses memories
I was a long term fan but gave up on STD and Picard, and yeah felt like a big middle finger was given to half the fans when Stacey Abrams showed up as the Earth President. That being said, I've enjoyed SNW quite a bit and Lower Decks has it's charm. I just wish Paramount would bail on the lower rated STD and focus exclusively on SNW. imo
Aww, I thought it was a cute and clever ☺ cameo. Better than Frank Goshen appearing in Black and White face!!
The Orville is more Star trek then any of the Kurtzman produced crap, because Seth MacFarlene understands Star trek and its fans
We as the fans need to admit that star trek has been divisive from the start. Ever since TNG when TOS era fans where complaining about the TNG crew which did happen. Discovery made it's mistakes in the early years we have to admit that but it also has a few, very few, good points, the later two seasons were better but still have work to do. Picard was a better attempt yes but still made a lot of mistakes during the first season and the second season was more of a fan fiction than anything in my opinion. Strange new world's was okay if you can get past the Gorn rip off of Aliens and a few other things but SNW was better than Discovery.
I try to reserve my opinion on the newer trek until I have seen what they have done. With Lower Decks and Prodigy they have a opportunity that they don't seem to be willing to truly explore. That's the ability to dive into the creative side of things and blend it with Canon in a manner that will add to the lore and make sense with what we know. Lower Decks they are trying to be to much of a comedy which is okay. Until they focus to much on the comedy of a situation instead of the seriousness of it when the situation obviously calls for a level of seriousness.
Prodigy, I know it is the one that is meant for the kids but it makes little to no sense to me what so ever. They are on a experimental class vessel yet that vessel is a training vessel as the holographic version of Janeway we are introduced to is a training program who seems to think that the rest of the main cast are starfleet cadets somehow. They haven't given us enough of an explanation on the overall storyline yet to fully understand anything that's going on. They jump around from plot point to plot point so often that I don't think they know what they are truly doing.
New trek is entertaining I'll give them that but it can get annoying when you try to connect it to old trek and figure out how it fits in. Especially when new trek has proven to not be afraid to completely ignore established trek history.
You make a good point about Star Trek's history of divisive reception from fans. A lot of critics in the fandom who are super negative about "New Trek" or "NuTrek" also seem to forget how early seasons of TNG and DS9 struggled with quality and consistency.
I grew up watching TNG as my first Trek series, and with a gun to my head I'd probably still say TNG is my favorite. But even before the advent of New Trek I'd struggle when I rewatched a lot of S1 & S2. TNG and DS9 have a complete legacy now when we think of them in hindsight, but IMO an objective viewer who compares S1 of TNG with S1 of Discovery ought to conclude that Disco is a stronger more consistent show. I'm not even trying to say S1 of Disco is *good* with that comparison, as much as reminding folks how weak S1 of TNG was. I had a similar opinion of ENT, which faced *very* similar vitriol from fans during its run to the Disco hate, but I think had a clearly much better start in its first two seasons than TNG did.
No Trek show has ever been perfect, but in many ways New Trek has learned its lessons and overcome its weaknesses faster and better than legacy Trek did. SNW may be the most consistently high quality 10 episode run of any Trek show in franchise history. Trek fans ought to be more excited than ever for the future of our fandom.
Nitpicking is a past time all Trek fans have, will and should be able to perform without people berating them for it.
From a comm badge that disappears, reappears, then disappears again... to every time Data used a contraction. Trek fans, then and now, are observant and enjoy sharing their observations with the Trek community...
It was when Nu Trek refused to admit it was a stealth reboot that things went wrong. If STD was set in the Classic Timeline, then yes... All nitpicks based on continuity are valid. But if SH have created a new continuity that separates their Trek from Classic Trek... Then nitpicks are relegated to observations of instances of divergence in a universe that can and should do it's own thing as a new continuity...
There is enough evidence to indicate SH has crafted this alt 'Prime' Continuity to follow instead of the Classic continuity spanning events from TOS to ENT. They just won't admit it, because in ambiguity they obviously believe they are benefiting. From people promoting their shows to people debating their shows, they have essentially scored twice the critics that appeal to a larger audience than either one could separately.
It’s not actually a training vessel, Janeway had her memories deleted and programming tampered with after that robot attacked. She had enough programming remaining to think they were cadets because she sees everything through a Starfleet lens. Her programming took-on that role just as the EMH is much more than a doctor.
I thought the plot was tight - they escaped slavery, wanted to get asylum from the Federation, and stopped at a couple of planets along the way. There’s a couple of episodes dedicated to character growth (Kobayashi Maru and Time Amok) so they can act more cohesively. Then they got threatened back so that (narratively) they could kill off that season’s villain.
The real Janeway is searching for the ship and Chakotay after it was lost, because of the loyalty and connection she has with Chakotay (which is also why Chakotay made a Janeway hologram to be his… advisor? Assistant? Proto-drive operator? First officer?).
I think the executives, producers and showrunners relying on the PC Revolution was there downfall in the Trek universe. Star Trek has always shown diversity and acceptance but not as a way of winning over a younger audience. The Lessons Learned From Roddenberry and his way of weaving it into a story as opposed to smacking it in your face would have come off far better. And as much the others who have commented in this section I do believe that strange new worlds does a far better job than the previous shows. I hope any future shows in the Star Trek universe keep their message prominent but subtle.
I love Strange New Words. Probably the best series created thus far!
Looking forward to Section 31. To be fair I’d watch a show of Michelle Yeoh painting her house.
I haven't watch strange new worlds yet but I'd run to it if it's actually better than Lower Decks.
I love Picard ! Even though a lil' confusing at times..
I don't care at all for New Trek .. maybe I'm just old and out of touch .. ST:SNW is definitely a improvement IMO .. But I still don't love it .. Maybe "my Trek" has run it course ... IDK
I'm right there with you. I still can't figure out if I REALLY like SNW or it's just I've loathed Discovery and Picard so much, that just about anything in comparison would seem great as long as it's not complete shite.
You're not old nor or you out of touch. You have a brain and can discern shit from shinola. All the NuTrek just isn't good. SNW is better, but it's not good and doesn't respect canon.
Lower Decks is awesome, the best most consistent trek in years.
You did forget a couple of important reasons why it hasn't caught on. namely the fact that the writing is garbage. First, the character development is sluggish. We were asked several times to care about characters that we barely knew. Second, they not only threw cannon out the window, they flat out crapped all over it. Lastly, Star Trek has always been a cerebral show, asking it's viewers to really think about the topics raised. So much so that NBC canceled the original series for being too cerebral. Discovery is about feelings. Characters talk about love and family (when we haven't seen anything on screen that really connects us to them), but never invokes serious discussion about story parallels to important social issues.
To be fair there are a few youtube channels that released this information as developments occurred but its good to see it all under one video and in hindsight.
Great video, I grew up following all the Trek series, even Voyager, although I am not a Janeway fan. But Discovery has been a letdown. Picard was wonderful fan service and redeemed the franchise partly. Now lower Decks and SNW are both amazing and brings Trek back to form.
Also Michael Burnham was trying to prevent a war by firing first to show aggression and win respect like the Vulcans did which was the only thing klingons would understand. However she was stopped before the ship fired so by not firing first caused the war
Hate new Trek...walked away.
20:00 The problem with Fullers statement about "Liberal and Conservative" Star Trek Fans is.....there's a whole lot of Star Trek Fans outside the US who have nothing to do and don't want anything to do with the political thinking of the USA. So putting Star Trek fandom in those two categories already alienates (pun intended) a big portion of the fanbase.
Yep, Fuller's statement sounds a little opinionated or arrogant and narrow minded. The world is a huge place and many of us are not defined by USA politics or even interested. Its not healthy.
The biggest problem with ST since 2009 is Alex Kurtzman, and as long as he's involved, the franchise is dead.
Also, if ST already appealed to more women than men, and they wanted to appeal to women, that's a reason to have kept it the same, not to artificially cater to what producers think women wanted (which is often a mistake).
(Yes, I do wish it had never been made, because it's now unlikely a real ST series will ever be made again.)
Also, you spent the video pointing out how nuTrek is dystopian, and then claim the opposite in the end.
This vid is imbalanced and tries to gaslight Fuller. Kurtzman has proven that he is the problem
@@boblum3360 That's my feeling too.
I remember when Berman and Braga were The Problem!
Just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it bad. I despise the horror genre for example and am utterly indifferent to anything in that vein but see that some of those films are truly great, and I don’t feel the need to trash something someone else likes.
@@dbernardstevens475 It's not the fans who are critical that are the problem. It's the ones who stay silent and just walk away because the franchise no longer interests them. If I were a producer, I would want to know what my best customers actually thought of my new product before I lose them.
New will always replace the old. It doesn't mean the new is bad or worse. I will now re-watch this with an open mind.
Trek is alive snd I could not be happier! I love these shows!! Discovery has some issues yes but by the time the seasons end it’s all pretty fantastic! Picard was good, could have been better but I still love it!! Strange New Worlds is EVERYTHING I love about Trek!! May it all just go on forever!!
Oh, how we miss Lucille Ball running Desilu her way.
2 pilot episodes.
7 months later, you tried! Politics ruin everything, as it's been said before politics makes strange bedfellows! (No pun intended)
I was so disappointed by both Star Trek Discovery and Picard that i haven't wasted my time watch Strang New Worlds. All of this is very expensive, highly produced fan fiction.
Close. The fan fiction is better than this trash.
SNW is a really fun show and the writing is great. No politics, just fun.
@@ThePopcast I would concur in general.
Great video thanks Popcast cheers.😊
I'm a huge Star Trek fan. TOS, TNG, VOY DS9 and even ENT. Like them all.
STD was a slap in the face to me. I found it disgusting. Picard was a little better, however they murdered my favorite captain, and I'm not talking about the turning him into an Android bullshit. He wasn't the same man. I stopped watching midway through the first season.
SNW is much better. I'm definitely enjoying it, but I'm about 3 episode behind right now with no urgency to catch up. But I will though. It's not perfect, and I haven't decided if it's actually good or just better than the other shit. The jury's still out on that for me.
Either way, I love your reviews and thank you guys for making these great videos!
Im of that exact opinion although i stopped watching STD after season one i dont mind the tone just like stargate universes darker tone. I tuned out of Picard halfway through the first season, that man was like a father figure to me and i didnt recognize him, he let his liberal views shine through way too much and liberals were great back in the day, but unbearable now.
I have been a Trek fan for years. I watched Star Trek when it was in reruns in my area in the 1980's. I have seen all of the movies and loved TNG, DS9, and Voyager. I was excited about Star Trek: Enterprise as being a prequel to TOS, but was highly disappointed when the Klingon running through the fields in "Broken Bow" looked like Klingons from the aforementioned TNG, DS9, and Voyager. A real Star Trek fan knows during TOS, there was no money to do elaborate markup for the Klingons, until TOS moved to making movies. In the DS9 episode, "Trials and Tribblations", Worf made the statement that the difference in TOS series Klingons and the Klingons from his era is an eternal matter and isn't talked about. Clever. But, we have Enterprise and the 1st episode of "Broken Bow" and it's Klingon with a ridged forehead. I have a couple of issues with Star Trek: Discovery. Again, I was excited to watch this show and, again, didn't like the 1st episode because of...you guessed it...the Klingons. Look, just because you have the funds to do something doesn't mean that you should. And, chronologically, isn't Discovery set between Enterprise and TOS? This doesn't make sense. The last issue, and I know I am going to make a LOT of people mad, but really? I have gays and lesbians in my family and I love them very much. I have absolutely no issue in whom they date and / marry. It's their life and they are can get involved with whomever they do choose. I have an issue with almost EVERY TV show leaning toward gay and lesbian characters. Everyone wants to be politically correct and do whatever they can to draw in more viewers, which in turn, brings more money. Personally, I hate the fact that Star Trek: Discovery went this route by having two openly, flaming gay characters. Can there be at least ONE show without two men being intimate with each other?
My constant feeling: Ron D Moore's Battlestar Galactica delivered a devastating blow to tv science fiction, making the previous major franchises pale by comparison, and oddy enough, paying the right homage to William Shatner's Star Trek. RDM's BSG said, in effect, here are real people in their civilian and military roles, and the future a few hundred or maybe a thousand years from now will see us living in these ways that we do live. Star Trek TOS said this as well. These two series shaped how I feel about all other science fiction. To the direct points raised in the facts of the Paramount Plus Star Trek origins presented here, I say what I say about TNG, DS9 VOY and ENT - - there are excellent episodes and horrible episodes which I take on a case by case basis. DISCO INTENDED to be problematic, but an "Orville" - like homage to previous Trek by a new Star Trek series would have been deadly dull. PICARD and DISCO both tilled the "malevolent AI" soil in similar but opposite plotlines, and DISCO's life in the 32nd Century feels like something else entirely. "Strange New Worlds" is trying to update an on-ramp to arrive at Kirk's TOS era, and it's an important experiment on how to do this hybid thing. When it works, it's excellent, but when it doesn't work it's a flop. The jury is still out.
You have a great point here, we are actually working on a Battlestar Galactica Documentary that we plan to finish in early August and you're right about the style that so many shows tried to adapt (unsuccessfully) in the wake of that series. Even the great Stargate was pretty much sunk by BSG because they couldn't replicate that style.
Subscribe and stay tuned to the channel, I really hope you can see our BSG video in a few weeks and let me know if we got everything.
Great video, especially the 'This is not Star Trek' part.
I think that some people involved in new ST shows don’t just despise hardcore fans, but the original material as well. That’s why they only do the right thing after all other options are exhausted.
The great thing about all Star Trek series is the entire Universe is the imaginational limit but the bad thing is, it usually just devolves into a shoot 'em up and more current culture indoctrination. Sometimes I wish they would simply explore strange new worlds.
33:27 'Nothing may ever compare to Balance of Terror'
Strange New Worlds: 'Hold my Spock'
@@DRINKERSBALDHEAD That's probably the most racist comment I've seen on any Star Trek related video. Shit writing, shitting all over canon, and keep the white people off the screen. Yeah, that's what Trek is all about. You're an idiot and a racist.
@@DRINKERSBALDHEAD I was referring to SNW literally recreating Balance of Terror in the last episode, no need to shout.
@@DRINKERSBALDHEAD get over yourself, bubba.
@@xenor9262 don't worry about him, he's copying and pasting the same typoed thing on a whole lot of different threads.
As a life long fan, I should be over the moon at the amount of star trek output currently. Sadly, ST now is made for people who don't like ST, especially Lower Decks. STD first 2 seasons is nothing less than cultural vandalism. Strange New Worlds is the first decent output in decades. Thank God for Orville!
I'm a Disco lover, but I had patience with the show; in the first two episodes the mutiny was very disturbing, and they killed the captain that I liked more than Burnham in those episodes. But the rest of the season was great. I've rewatched the first two seasons of Disco several times, but for some reason watched the the episodes of S3 and S4 when they premiered and haven't felt like watching them again.
I've accepted that Emperor Georgiou has been "redeemed", because I want Michelle Yeoh to have her own ST show; but I can't help but think that there's no way a fascist, murderous cannibal white dude would have ever been given a second chance.
Every time I hear Pike say hit it (make it so and engage we’re already taken I guess) I think of Blues Brothers.
Spock: It's 106 light years to Sector 001, we got a fresh load of dilithium crystals, half a bowl of gagh, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Pike: Hit it.
Bottom line fellas, NuTrek creators severely misjudged the world at-large, and the potential of the fan base. Now, after several years of utterly floundering with their monstrosity, they are finally trying to actually make good Trek, with fans in mind. NOW, By the 10th episode of SNW, it appears that they are on the right path. Will they keep it up? Who knows. But the TRUTH, everyone basically hated their abysmal rendition of Star Trek. So, after eating lots of crow, and a series of course corrections, they appear to have finally gotten the picture, and are now returning to a style of making a show that people can possibly fall in love with. I pray that they don't drop the ball again, because if they do, i fear that it will kill Star Trek for good, and I truly do not believe that they can come back from that, if it happens... Also, personally I really hope they stop making so many different shows, put everything on SNW, and deliver a well written, classy, 25 episode season, like it ought to be. They should hire whoever wrote the last episode to write them all, because that 10th episode finally felt and looked like actual Star Trek... Bravo... Ultimately, that's what everyone wants in a new Star Trek show. It's so simple. Why can't they see that? I wonder... Anyway, that's my 2 cents, for what it's worth... Jake... Out...
The thing is... If they want me back, they have to start from scratch because they jettisoned all the good will of the fans.
The thing is... they didn't have to. I can sit and nitpick their episodes, but if they admitted they rebooted the show in a new continuity, nitpicks wouldn't be valid in a new continuity based on Classic Trek. They would become observations of the divergence that have occurred.
Really, SH shot themselves in the foot and then blamed the fans for shooting them. You can't talk to a company so out of touch with reality. So while I'm happy to see they are starting to listen... they could just as quickly revert back to type after tasting a modicum of success
@@davfree9732 I agree with you on this point. It's like they, in a small bubble of like thinkers, assumed the whole world saw life as they did, and wrote a show with their twisted ideals front and center, then were absolutely shocked and dismayed to realize that almost no one actually wanted to watch that nonsense. Personally, I think SNW is, by the end of the season, getting better and feeling more like Trek, but they were relying on great writing from "Balance of Terror" who knows if they can continue to deliver with their own writing. I can see that they are trying, tho, to make a change for the better. However, Damning the Canon and blaming fans for their own lack of education and understanding has to stop, if they ever want to recover from their own self inflicted wounds. Then, if they can do some credible writing, they might be able to right the ship.
@@untetheredlive Aye. By the end of QoM I would have preferred to hear the Romulan Commander address Pike, based in their experiences. Not Kirks.
Something along the lines of, "As I told you, in the eyes of my people you are a weak man. Perhaps a good one, but one who has brought war to our people. In another life, I could have called you friend."
or...
"In your efforts I see the hand that would take mine were I not bound by duty. But it is duty I serve. And for your weakness in the eye's of my people you have condemned my crew and ship to death. Would that in another life, I might have called you friend. But in this moment as you think on the actions that brought us to this... all I can say is farewell."
Pike's actions right at the end didn't warrant the speech meant for Kirk, that Kirk and the Commander earned in their battle of wits against the other. Pike's actions were the opposite. Trying to refrain from destroying the Commander that gave him the opportunity to radically change history with the opening Pike gave him. The Commanders speech should have bene for Pike. A script writer on their game would have seen that and written it accordingly. As it stands, they copy pasta'd without giving a hoot who was in command. And if peoples opinions don't change based on who they are facing... Then SH is saying it doesn't matter who is in the chair.
... Which is one step away from saying 'Anybody can be Thor/Spiderman/insert name here" Which is ironic because the episode clearly demonstrates that it did matter who was in the chair. Except to the writer writing character dialogue.
@@davfree9732 yep... except, I honestly don't believe that the writers of NuTrek even understand rank, or command. They definitely write like it doesn't exist. I am not even sure the characters know what their rank is. This is certainly true for ST Discovery. At least, Pike kinda acts like a Captain in command. Bit I do see your point about earning the moment.
Incredible breakdown, guys. Well done! You had poll asking who is the most responsible for the problems: Moonvies, Fuller, Kurtzman…? Certainly, they all played a roll, but at the end of the day, the buck stops with the man in charge-and in this case, that’s Kurtzman. I hate to keep dumping on Kurtzman, because I greatly admire how prolific he is and he’s done some good things (I personally loved his reboot of “Hawaii Five-0;” I literally never missed an episode; “Clarice” was a good, if failed, attempt as well.) But I didn’t respect Kurtzman’s multiple attempts in interviews to throw Fuller under the bus for the issues, when Fuller was long since out of the picture. Fuller may have made some bad calls, but he was gone; Alex Kurtzman was the man in charge. He could have corrected the ship at any time, but he doubled down on bulldozing canon.
That was and is Discovery’s (and to a certain degree, even “Strange New Worlds’”) primary divisive issue: the insistence that these shows are direct prequels to The Original Series, set in the same continuity as TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, while blatantly ignoring and overwriting the canon of those legacy series. Furthermore, every time I’ve seen Kurtzman speak about Star Trek, he further convinces me that even after running the franchise for years now, he’s still never taken the time to actually sit down and WATCH any of the classic series. And that’s the first responsibility of a writer: research. And the research couldn’t be easier: just watch the damned show! He won’t do it. I guess he’s too busy (but he’s the guy in charge, so it’s his responsibility).
Excellent as always, guys! These are always a must watch and this one is no different. Thanks!
Thank you friend!
"foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." F'ing love Disco, SNW, Picard etc. I like the art of writers, directors, and actors along with the skill of producers to make this thing we call show. Evolution folks.
I love Star Trek. Especially love Discovery! Michael was one of my favorites. I love all of Star Trek series.
I hate Discovery and I especially hate Michael I really want to like that show but it was painful to watch. I gave up
@@merricat3025 your lost! It is a great show!
@@dianadowie3985 Not according to viewing ratings. Discovery is rubbish!
@@plugsocket9432 I don't come by ratings! I go by what I like and it is a good show!
There wasn't that many subscribers when it launched
Interesting take, I never felt early Discovery was female centric, it always felt almost like the opposite, like some 15 year old boy trying to make Trek edgy and dark in order to make it seem cooler, also Ash, Saru and Sarek, were featured prominently in season 1, all of them non LGBTQ, not completely evil male characters, plus at the end 2 of the big bads of the season where also female so it's not like they were presenting a clear imbalance. Honestly production design, directing and writing was just subpar, seeing SNW visuals just makes Disco look so muddy and low quality in comparison, and makes it clear they didn't even care to look at TOS or any trek, while designing anything.
That's what's great about people, we can all see things differently and that doesn't mean we're wrong. Hopefully we can always agree to disagree and stay friends. Thank you for sharing!
AS LONG AS IT'S STAR TREK I DON'T CARE BECAUSE I AM A REAL FAN THAT LOVES THE SERIES. I GREW UP WITH IT IN THE SIXTIES AND KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO LOSE THE SHOW! As long as they keep making the show i am happy!
I just adore all of your trek content my man. Great job! Channel recommended for any trekker.
*Thank You Sir!*
So much DRAMA!!!! Let me go make some 🍿😂😂😂
HAHAHA
Fuller's characterization of why conservatives like Star Trek vs why liberals like Star Trek is so misinformed and hivemind, that it's sickening. No wonder our society is so divided, with small-minded people like him in positions of influence. Obviously, I'm a conservative, and as a long-time Star Trek fan, I know many other conservative Star Trek fans. We ALL have always enjoyed Star Trek for its idealistic vision of the future and its depiction of the way things ought to be. We certainly don't enjoy it for any "fascist" or militaristic overtones. That's ludicrous, and says a lot about the sort of mind that would make such sweeping claims. But we also don't want that idealistic vision to be rammed down our throats as if we're children. And that IS where the divide is between us and liberals... we ALL want the same future. The problem is that liberals want it NOW, while conservatives, realizing that having it NOW means ultimate failure, are aware that doing it slowly means that any social change will stick.
Unfortunately, as a person who used to proudly carry the label of conservative, it is obvious to me that the only people supporting even incremental change are the "liberals" and often that incremental change does come in the form of fictional portrayal of the possibilities first. Many avowed "conservatives" today are reactionaries looking to move us precisely away from any kind or new innovation or positive change. If that is not you, that is fine, but then you may not be the best voice to speak for 2022 "conservatives"
@@jonathangarver First, that incremental change comes in the form of fictional portrayal of the possibilities first, is spot on. That's why Star Trek is beloved by fans of every political persuasion.
But your perception of today's conservative is VERY misinformed. You're talking about only the fringes of today's conservative base. Just as it's bad to rope all liberals into the bucket of the far progressive left. They too, are the fringes of the liberal base, yet carry a VERY loud voice. So just because you may hear of conservatives who "move us precisely away from any kind or new innovation or positive change", you're hearing of them only because the media likes to focus on them.
@@bgm-1961 No, unfortunately it isn't the case that I am misinformed on this issue. I am a former Republican organizer and grassroots organizer. You may want to reevaluate your own sources and biases and look at the national trends and forces at play.
We all have our biases, my own being a Southern US centric one, but there is nearly nothing forward looking about populist movements dominating the right today. Even by it's very nature "Make America Great Again" is a retro, backwards looking message, yet it is the message that continues to hold sway amongst "conservatives". I wholeheartedly agree with the premise that most people identifying as "conservatives" are in fact not from a historical sense, but that is why the term is losing it's value as a meaningful identifier, at least within the United States. But if you tried to talk to your average "conservatives" here about some Burkean concept of incremental reform and the role of conservatives as a brake to ensure proper reform, they won't just laugh you out, they'll vote you out.
@@jonathangarver OK, fair enough... now that you mention it, I would categorize myself as a "Burkean Conservative". Since my early thirties I've labeled myself as "center-right", and am standing over the "Independent/Republican" line, more toward the Independent side. The actual far right disturbs me very much, so I guess as far away I can get from them without totally jumping to the other side is where I'm at. But the far left upsets me (with being upset worse than being disturbed). So, there's quite a bit of repulsion at play there, as well.
Categorize me and conservatives as you will, I still feel that Fuller's characterization of why Conservatives like to watch Start Trek is spectacularly simplistic and misguided.
@@bgm-1961 And that I'd agree with, the automatic assumption that "conservative" equals "militaristic fascism" is a terribly disappointing part of our timeline and trajectory. It isn't true... academically... but the populist have more say than academia right now.
I have, admittedly swapped sides, originally to try to force a correction in the GOP, but it hasn't been successful so far. Centrist compromise used to be how things got done, but we'll see when it returns
This is a great video as it relates to describing what has happened behind the scenes over the years. I grew up watching TOS, and I've loved almost everything produced all the way to now.
I don't have any Optimism For Discovery or Picard. Discovery by far is the worst trek ever.
Startrek Discovery a Portrait in Current Generational Dysfunctionality and of these times in which we live! Startrek is in a Future time of a Humanity that bettered itself. Picard
That is not the Picard I knew. The Writing of these Shows are Horrendous. Strange New World's Though I have some Character issues,
Feels like Trek was. SNW Hit it👊
We would never have gotten a gay 7of 9. A transgender Picard, and special needs tilly without the new star trek.
@@mardigrasw LOL, yeah shitting all over canon is the true way to a Trek fan's heart.
The best thing that Discovery did was bring in Captain Pike and crew...Strange New Worlds and Picard kick started the franchise in my opinion
Spock Tier List
1.SPOCK (Nimoy)
2.SPECK (Ethan peck)
3.The Gay one
I haven't verified this, William Shatner was interviewed at 2022 Comic-Con.
Q. about newer Star Trek series whether any of them rival TOS, he replied "none of them".
"I got to know Gene Roddenberry in the three years fairly well. ....... he'd be turning in his grave with some of this stuff."
Pleased that W. Shatner has spoken out whether sincere or not so much.
A significant element that has hurt much of the new Star Trek offerings is the overt and overwhelming modern social justice (a.k.a. "woke") bias evidenced in the shows. In its origin, and often at its best, Star Trek seamlessly demonstrated diversity and social consciousness. These details were woven into the background of exciting science fiction storytelling. In contrast, modern producers and writers prefer to put their advocacies at the head of their narratives. The new Star Trek comes off as heavy-handed, unrealistic, disingenuous, and even manipulative in the way previous Star Treks didn't. Instead of stimulating imagination and open-mindedness, the often over-the-top political/social messaging and moralizing have pushed away many traditional fans and mainstream viewers. Star Trek is not alone, as polarized ideologies disguised within entertainment have been increasingly and intrusively embedded into current popular culture projects.