Wanda has beaten teen jean grey yes, but not adult jean whose telepathic abilities are powerful enough to break into the mind of the progenitor celestial or jean psi abilities protecting her friends from the psychic heaviness of the celestial or stomping out the entity nightmare with telepathy I used to believe wanda would easily defeat jean grey no matter her age but after going through jean grey’s recent feats, I learnt jean has a shot in easily defeating wanda with telepathy
@@ambitions1964 not 100/0, Jean's telepathy may be that strong but Wanda is not shut down by a psychic attack of all things. If it's a fight where both girls expect all their power sets, time manipulation and just plain probability manipulation will do. She has resisted onslaught and the distress of resistance for her is known to be one of the most destructive forces. I'd say 70/30 on Jean's favor but the variability of magic especially chaos magic can give Wanda an edge.
@@camm8642 sw defeated dream queen (daughter of nightmare) in dream scape. Captured her in energy barrier amd changed her natural construct that earlier she feeded on peoples fear now she will feed on peoples bliss...so that she can give people blissful dreams.....
Totally agree with this one. Wanda is OP but her mind is her weakest spot. Mind blast is the first thing jean will do and she instantly finds Wandas weakness. Witches are very emotional and very sensitive with thier feelings easy to manipulate. Reality manipulation vs Mind manipulation.
Jean is an omega level telepath... any power Wanda can THINK of... Jean shuts it down ...strong telepaths can shut down powers of other people on a WHIM... the only way Wanda can win is if she uses her power first but Phoenix will just revive Jean.. so its really just Jean who will win no matter what so many ignorant people here DO NOT KNOW how powerful Jean's Telepathy is... Wanda can 1 shot base Jean.. but she needs to HIT base Jean DOES NOT NEED TO HIT... her Telepathy does not need to home it activates immediately it cannot be blocked as Wanda is not immune to it.. Wanda can resists telepathic attacks from some Telepaths but NOT a telepath like Jean Grey not to mention Jean multitasks all the time... multiple telekinetic and telepathic attacks all at the same time which Wanda is not used to doing all the time... all that power Wanda has, Jean's power is faster, efficient, precise and Wanda is not immune to it...Jean will always do the first hit.. and that first hit is enough to shut her off REGARDLESS OF ALL HER POWER Wanda is weak to Jean's super power (among super powers) and that is the OMEGA TELEPATHY of Jean
Jean could pretty much do the MoM technique on Wanda that she did to blackbolt Wanda: "I have spells!" Jean: "No.... you don't" Wanda: "Oh, I guess I don't" or how about Jean: "Wanda, act like a tree and leaf"
Scarlet Witch literally controls reality. She could perma-trap Phoenix in an alternate universe where she keeps "winning" against SW forever and ever and Phoenix wouldn't even know better.
Once Jean gets in your mind you’re over. She’s the strongest telepath in the Marvel Universe and she has occasionally warped reality with her telepathy. Jean is just OP with or without her rightful host as The Phoenix. I do love both of these characters though, they are some of my favourite characters in the Marvel Universe. Jean is known for her reaction speed, she takes this. I love both characters though.
You're a damn lie. Loving a character does not mean you know them and you've proved you don't know them. A common misconception is that Jean is omnipotent in her ability to manipulate minds, but she's not. She got out did by a Celestial that had been dead for years, she's been beaten by Apocalypse multiple times, and overpowered by nate Grey. Jean is not the strongest telepath. Even if you want to say she is it doesn't help her at all, Wanda is faster then Jean in both travel and reaction speed. She has immeasurable speed and has already proved she can dodge mental attacks, yes DODGE them. Everytime Jean and Wanda fight Wanda had won, this isn't a fight at all. Wanda at base is consistently multiversal and Jean is barely solar system level. Wanda takes this and I can really get into why if you'd like.
@@EeveetoUmbreon25 Not technically, His psionic powers are more put to keeping his physical form together not mentally messing with others, but when he does use them psychokinetically he is extremely powerful.
In Wanda's new comic she states you have 1 second to take your shot at her and you better not miss. She's literally already aware of Jean's powers like they're actual friends so she's not just gonna shoot bolts immediately. He literally based the fight off what he thinks she'll do first.
Lol even the facts that wanda with simple hand flick literally made jean powerless in comics is just....... Yeah wanda can get completely dragged cuz Red skull and Emma did it with their mind and hope with her simple knuckle hit But that's not always the case at all cuz she literally rewrote xavier outta his existence when he tried to the famous "mind control" this editor is talking about And took a direct chaos king force+ even a direct power hit from dr.doom and didn't even fainted And even reacted to Pietro speed So is mind control, durability, speed is always the problem against wanda? No! I don't think so
I would agree with u if it's not for the fact that he didn't put in there when Wanda one shotted jean 3 times in the comics and also stated that jean telepathy can not affect her hex. I notice he does this lot in some his videos when he wants some one to win he not mentioned the feats that they did or say like yea she has powerful hex but she wouldn't have time to use them on jean without even providing evidence of that been shown or states
@@Icantfeelyousugah yes I watched it at least 5 times. This fight is not about the movie versions. I saw what she did to Charles being amped with the Darkhold. If you’re going off of that then you’re going up against the telepathy of Phoenix. Wanda still can’t stand up to that attack. Keep in mind professor X was temporarily able to freeze Wanda and enter her head without Cerebrospinal! In the last X-men movie Charles is unable to get in the head of Phoenix even when she is asleep. Charles had to get beast to turn Cerebrospinal up to dangerous levels just to see inside her head. The minute Phoenix wakes up Charles is easily knocked out. Wanda is an emotional wreck and she can’t take that kind of telepathic attack.
Ughhh as a huge fan of scarlet witch I’ll have to agree. Even at Wanda’s most powerful currently with Cthon and the dark hold absorbed into her, Jean would potentially be able to exploit that psychically. Especially since she’s shown to be bested with people getting in her head. I guess the only question is when Wanda is under Jean’s influence if she can get herself out of it
It’s 2023 and fans are still wondering who’s more powerful between these two ladies. Let’s make this dream rivalry come true in the MCU one day in the future!
@@KahlilsC0uture the funny thing is that they hinted at both of them being alive at the end of both of there movies. Plus there is more versions of them in the multiverse
I agree. Wanda/Scarlet witch is powerful ( besides being nexus being) but Jean was the host of a nexus being( some may even argue that jean herself is a nexus being). Sure Scarlet Witch physically may best jean in the long run, but jean definitely will not be standing around getting hit. She held back a miniature sun, withstood blackbolts' voice, and manipulate molecules and atoms. Also speed is a telepaths' friend. And given jeans omega level telepathy, experience and control, Wanda wouldn't be able to conceive a thought or concept. Unless Scarlet witch's mental defense and stability improved, Jean would win. Heck, Jean would probably make Scarlet witch "believe" that she won, before successfully mindwiping her or riping her apart. 7/10 jean wins.
Agreed but more like 8/10 for me. Jean is already an Omega level mutant. Like Iceman would just Freeze her up and shatter all the pieces. But she's No Joke 😅👍💯🤨🤨
Depends on writer. If Jean decides to kill it is over, but she usually doesn't resort to that. She can literally just turn people's mind off. Wanda can't work without a mind. Might just come down to who acts first I suppose.
This is actually very true. The reason why Jean doesn't show her true potential it's cause she's always hesitating and her nature doesn't want to kill but to nurture.
Tbh, even Chaos Magic works on autopilot. So it would automatically prevent her from doing that. Also, Wanda is immortal now after the Trial of Magneto...
Wanda controls probability. So she could say something like there is a zero percent chance Jean can enter my mind. Or there is 100 percent chance if Jean tries to enter my mind she will die. The second Jean goes for a psychic attack on Wanda, Jean falls over dead without even knowing what hit her.
wanda can also view future probabilities and events so she can see what jean will do and find a way to counter it. he can also just slow down or freeze time and hen attack jean and kill her.
Wanda solos. In the comics, she’s listed as one of the few individuals who can kill the Phoenix Force plus she has beaten the Phoenix five. Now that she absorbed Chthon there’s no telling how much power she wields now.
the author of the book darkhole omega states that scarlet witch is not at the HOI (house of ideas) level.. meanwhile jean gray wpotc is at the HOI level. Wanda's fans were shocked by this statement. But there are still many Wanda's fans who deny it, and continue to manipulate Scarlet Witch's data.
This is one of if not the most dumbest comment I've seen in a while. WPOTC is not on the level of HOI , HOI is literally a representation of TOAA himself.
The problem with Wanda is that her mental fortitude is so inconsistent. She was able to mentally battle the elder god Set for a moment but then she falls to onslaught. One minute she’s able to turn back a mental probe on Jean and the next she is easily infiltrated by her. It’s too inconsistent to make sense but she has more less feats directly battling or overcoming telepathy and someone on jeans level would take her. I’m sure she’ll get some more telepathic resistance or battle feats in the future but as of now Jean would telepathy take her out. The only reason this isn’t a stomp is because current Wanda is just as versatile when it comes to using her powers.
ye i remember she battled someone amped (i think their name was like serpents crown or whtv) and she apparently battled this peron mentally across multiple dimensions and worlds or whtv. not sure if that is what it said but i think it is. and also your right wandas is just very inconsistent. like for e.g in Ave vs Xmen she was one shotting members of the phoe 5 and the next second she is literally just unable to do anything to another member. another example is her durability where she got hurt by an blast taht didn't even hit her and was actually blocked by one of her team mates but then she has also taken blasts form dr doom and cap americas shield to the head and was fine. she is just so inconsistent and if she was she would prob ahve some much betetr showings and feats.
@@tinapouha1 These durability feats are from 2 completely different Wanda's which is a terribly bad comparison, Her durability feats are now consistently good any from back then are outdated. Her mental defenses on the other hand are disregarded for the dumbest of plot reasons like red onslaught.
Jean wins easily.. Wanda's greatest weakness is telepathy and Jean is the most powerful psychic in all the multiverse. Even Black Panther states that Jean possesses the most powerful mind in the universe, no other being is comparable to her. She is literally the perfect and most powerful Omega level mutant. The mutant Alpha, the all powerful. Jean can match and even surpass Wanda with her telekinesis.. Wanda can't even counter Jean's vast telepathy.. Wanda is unarguably one of the most powerful but she needs time to cast powerful spells that could ruin Jean and I see that as a weakness.
@@afro_princess1671 girl I have more important things to do than fight on the internet and write an essay about supporting a fictional character more than another fictional character Also you seem like a person that would laugh at someone for breathing
Great analysis and I personally think current Jean would win against current Wanda 8/10 times. Jean is an omega level telepath, way more powerful than Charles, who was able to “stabilize” Wanda’s mind when she was losing it from the mighty power of the Life Force during Avengers Disassembled and House of M. The fact that Prof. X was more than capable of stabilizing her (to an extent) means Jean should have no problem. Especially now in 2023 with all her current telepathic feats. I also see some people mentioning Wanda post Darkhold Omega being more powerful. That isn’t true, I also thought she gained a power boost post Omega but the writer himself confirmed she did not. She only imprisoned Cthon within the Darkhold within her. Which is why she says that if she dies then he will be set free. Ofcourse Wanda is a powerful reality warper and her probability manipulation definitely could help her win the battle. The thing is her mind can’t really defend herself (as the video mentioned) and although Wanda has one shot Emma, Emma has also one shot Wanda (both in the same storyline, Children’s Crusades) and we all know how much more powerful Jean is to Emma’s telepathy. Just as easily as Wanda can push probability into her favor, Jean can set a thought in motion/suggestion in Wanda’s mind. Either calming her, controlling her or knocking her out. Telepathy is no joke and Jean is the Omega.
Jean's recent feats w/o the PF and her using telepathy has already overpowered gods, primordial entities and even Galactus itself couldn't even tell the difference between her and the PF even though she doesn't have the PF at that time. She mentioned that the PF had held her back cuz she'd relied on it but right now, she's totally godlike with her telepathy and it keeps on growing.
Xavier wasnt exactly just using his telepathy to make Wanda fall asleep and he wasnt just doing it easily. He was struglling ,bleeding and needed other sources to put Wanda to sleep. Wanda actually overpowered Xavier badly in that same comic. Wanda warped Xavier out of existance before using his own mind to found out everyone'a most desired wishes. So logicaly she did overpower him with her telepathy bcs she wouldnt get into his mind without doing it so. And how are u so sure that Jean is able to react to Wanda and take over her mind before Wanda erasing Jean from existance. Jean struggled to even react to Wanda's hex bolts and was taken down several times(well one of the time she was a young jean but still). Wanda reacted to her brother Pietro aka Quicksilver. Who is stated to be easily cappable of running in picosecond. Which is the one trillionth in one second. So Jean wont be able to react. Also like u mentioned bunch of times she is very very powerfull to the point that she is able to fold reality like a piece of paper and erase it. She is immensly powerfull power house so there is no way of Jean winning over her with raw strength. Her only chance is her telepathy so Jean wins 1/10 bcs thats the only way of her winning.
@@bbygirl_whatruon 1. I never said Charles handled Wanda easily, I said he was able to “stabilize” her to an extent, which he did. Also that wasn’t base Wanda, that was Wanda with the Life Force, and Charles was still able to stabilize her like I said to an extent. 2. Wanda doesn’t have telepathy, she got into Charles mind because he linked their minds together, that’s how telepaths work lol. Wanda can’t penetrate anyone’s mind on her own, she’s not telepathic. 3. Wanda cant erase Jean because Jean is immune to reality warping (as is Wanda) since they are both nexus beings. However, Wanda isn’t immune to telepathy or telekinesis and Jean could decimate Wanda atom by atom with a thought. 4. Again, Jean takes this 8/10 times. Idk if you been keeping up with her feats as of 2023 but she’s grown exponentially and that’s without any Phoenix Force amplification. I read/own both Jean and Wanda comics so I feel confident in my answer.
Scarlet Witch beats Jean Grey but Jean Grey possessed by The Phoenix Force kills Wanda and Jean is an Omega Level Mutant and has a psionic form so she can probably kill Wanda without the Phoenix Force.
@@Spiceodog Jean Grey has resurrection abilities She's beyond reality and time-space continuum when bonded with Phoenix Force Jean Grey 💥 incinerates sw 🧹
Scarlet Witch is indeed powerful and has overpowered magical abilities that make her a threat in both the comics and the MCU. But the thing is that Dark Phoenix is a threat to the entire universe as her powers are cosmic-level. In that regard, it is easy to see why Dark Phoenix is the more powerful character. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
I believe since wanda knows what Jean is capable of, she will first manipulate jean’s telepathy, causing it to backfire or completely shut off and then win from there
How are you so sure that Jean's telepathy can easily manipulated by Wanda when Jean is also the most powerful telepathy user on the planet. Plus, in new recently released comic, Jean easily beat CELESTIAL without Phoenix by just using Telepathy
@Concensino, Von Andrei M. umm because Wanda's power literally controls probability, including the possibility that Jean's powers can shut down or backfire, makes plenty of sense
@@yoyomayne but Scarlet witch's probability powers are not infinite and has a range. When she did 'no more mutants', she did not affect *all* mutants. So her powers are not 100% precise and unstable, so there's that.
@YOYO510 once when they were teenagers and prof x was holding back jeans potential with mental locks, and another time when jean grey was a little girl vs an old and experienced wanda......it's worth noting this little girl Version was able to bypass Wanda's mental defenses and read her mind without wanda noticing.
@@CityBoyJtt not going to do this with u ...coz it's a fact scarlet can't defend against telepathy ..so in that area Jean is goin to turn the fight in her favor..that's a fact
I agree, Jean is stronger than Wanda. Plus we all know SW spell didn't erased every mutants. So the one's that survived that spell are much stronger than her. Also Jean has resurrected herself without the Phoenix. Not forgetting how mentally unstable Wanda is 😅.
Just because they weren't erased by the spell doesn't mean that they're more powerful than her because there were Emma frost and doctor strange's interferences(plot armor). Also SW now has been better mentally just showed how much you've been missed out. I can't believe you just decided who's more powerful by just one circumstance. meanwhile Jean had been beaten by Wanda multiple times, why didn't you mention any of those? you jean grey stans are freaking unbelievable
Your whole argument became null when you pulled the unstable narrative. leah williams tried so frickin hard in trials of magneto comic to erase that narrative from Wanda's past, present and future yet yall still using this narrative shows that you shouldn't be in this discussion
These things always leave out so much. One of Jeans key powers is something that always gets sidelined. Jean is telekinetic at the subatomic level. She can alter the very nature of matter itself. Also There is only one Phoenix Force in the entire multiverse. She is the sum total of all life force in the multiverse, past, present AND future! What part of omnipotent does this not address? She squared off against Galactus, AND HE BACKED DOWN! She held a dying universe in the palm of her hand and HEALED it! I’m thinking of a story line where Jean, using her SUPERIOR telepathic abilities, to locate the parts of Wanda’s mind affected by all the trauma she’s known, and heals them all. They become fast POWERFUL friends and the X-men get to add a new POWERFUL bit of eye candy to their line up.
Jean in old comics is often underplayed and most of them is Jean being the old “damsel” in distress. Whilst throughout the years, her powers were changed. Wanda is powerful indeed but Jean can easily play with her mind.
I think it really would depend on the circumstances and context. Scarlet Witch usually goes for energy blasts but if given even a tiny bit of time, she can be sneaky and use her other powers as well as her surroundings to fight. Also, Scarlet Witch basically has telekinesis so she'd hold her own, I'd imagine she'd have some magical forcefield as armor.
Wanda uses her probability power in her energy blast. She throws hex bolts that aren't just blast but if one hits you it does more than just damage it hexes you.
Even without the Phoenix she has around 40 powers and abilities and she is nothing without her magic, , she is the only mutant level 5 in Marvel in existence with limitless potential, she still easily got into the head of the primordial God of darkness and Symbiots who was also a Elder God and found out how to defeat him without him even knowing that she was in his head and in the same time she was breaking the connection between Symbiots hive mind and Venom son, she many times bypassed the telepathic shielding of juggernaut and Magneto helms, she beat Nightmare who was a psychotic demon in his realm the same guy who trapped the Eternity,, she knocked out Gladiator, she beat avengers, Galactus, Jean easily lifted mountains that weight millions of pounds, she lifted a structure that was as tall as the world trade centre, she broke out of the Volcano, she survived explosion of the Phoenix and she absorbed it, the Phoenix is capable of destroying any creating universes and destroys and kills everything it. comes to contact with, she survived a blast that could destroy multiverse, she as the Phoenix has the power to create and destroy life, ,stars, Suns, planets, galaxies, universes, realities, black holes, she can eat stars, Suns planets for breakfast all the time killing billions of people, thePhoenix destroyed a fully habitated planet where 5 billions of people were living,planet and had 5 billions people living there, she can fly around the universes in seconds, she doesn’t need teleportation or telekinesis from move to one place to another like her,she beat Apocalypse, the Phoenix is immortal and indestructible personification of life, death, destruction, rebirth and burning away everything that doesn’t work 😂😂😂
@@FoxyGuyHere Even without the Phoenix she has around 40 powers and abilities and she is nothing without her magic, , she is the only mutant level 5 in Marvel in existence with limitless potential, she still easily got into the head of the primordial God of darkness and Symbiots who was also a Elder God and found out how to defeat him without him even knowing that she was in his head and in the same time she was breaking the connection between Symbiots hive mind and Venom son, she many times bypassed the telepathic shielding of juggernaut and Magneto helms, she beat Nightmare who was a psychotic demon in his realm the same guy who trapped the Eternity,, she knocked out Gladiator, she beat avengers, Galactus, Jean easily lifted mountains that weight millions of pounds, she lifted a structure that was as tall as the world trade centre, she broke out of the Volcano, she survived explosion of the Phoenix and she absorbed it, the Phoenix is capable of destroying any creating universes and destroys and kills everything it. comes to contact with, she survived a blast that could destroy multiverse, she as the Phoenix has the power to create and destroy life, ,stars, Suns, planets, galaxies, universes, realities, black holes, she can eat stars, Suns planets for breakfast all the time killing billions of people, thePhoenix destroyed a fully habitated planet where 5 billions of people were living,planet and had 5 billions people living there, she can fly around the universes in seconds, she doesn’t need teleportation or telekinesis from move to one place to another like her,she beat Apocalypse, the Phoenix is immortal and indestructible personification of life, death, destruction, rebirth and burning away everything that doesn’t work 😂😂😂
That’s a separate entity and not fair to Wanda. The video clearly states wanda vs BASE jean and base jean gets curbstomped by Wanda. And if we’re being fair life force vs phoenix that’s fair. Wanda has also beat phonies many times
@@maybeitsmen Jean gray is the most close to the Phoenix than anyone, and she still has some of its essence in her currently, not for anything she also became the white Phoenix too. She easily is way more fundamentally inverse wise than Wanda. Wanda only wins with plot tbh
@@maybeitsmen you can't just be the perfect host and be the ONLY true Avatar of the Phoenix itself if you're not very powerful at your base. She can even control the Phoenix and succumb it to her will.
I disagree with everybody in the comments Scarlet witch doesn't even have a chance against Jean gray and let's not forget dark Jean grey or let's take it up to the ultimate level 🔥Phoenix 🔥 and let's not forget she has four different forms 🖤dark🖤 🔥Phoenix🔥
Dude do more research or actually at this point do any research. Wanda has not only defeated her what 3 or 4 times she can kill the Phoenix as I done, finished. I know you know comics better than you act and your actually putting these ridiculous wins and losses to get people fired up in the comments but it would be better to just put out accurate content.
Jean without the phoenix is a complete powerhouse its good to see her develop outside of just the PF unlike Wanda who is in need of constant amps and numerous retcons to justify her place in the marvel pantheon many of which contradict each other and don't even come close to making sense half the time.......that Jean's genetic kids are all so powerful to Rachel and Nate Grey, Cable, Stryfe etc.....is just evidence of an immensely powerful lineage.
Base Wanda is levels ahead of no Phoemix Jean. Dedeated multiversal creatures, blocked House of Ideas energy, summoned and controlled Dormammu. Don't even. Wanda solos
Fax Jean Grey stomps Wanda is overrated Next Ryu vs Iron Fist or Shang Chi Iceman vs Sub Zero The Thing Marvel vs Solomon Grundy Colossus vs King Shark Luke Cage vs Mr Incredible Black Bolt vs Shazam Hyperion vs Zod Galactus vs Imperiex Starfire vs Omniman Hancock vs Icon or Superboy Hercules marvel vs Hercules DC
in the comics, Scarlet Witch can even kill the Phoenix, what Jean stomps are you talking about? LOL, even at both bases, Wanda defeated Jean several times
Jean is much stronger since she’s not holding back. Her telepathy can reach Moon, Mars and even other dimension. She’s able to enter the Eternal unimind and infiltrate their voting on whose going to be the prime eternal. She’s able to protect thousands of people from psionic attacks and her TK has been raised to omega level. She’s both omega level in those categories. Think twice. Wanda’s magic do not affect omega levels
so......most of them got there powers back in different ways.......and some kept them inspite of all scarlet witches power thanks to dr strange and emma frost.
When it comes to telepathy I don't think Wanda would win on jean since professor x entered Wanda's mind even without the cerebro while if you guys watch the dark phoenix movie and still remember it professor x with cerebro can't even enter jean minds without struggling and when jean woke up professor x got knocked out and in fact jean did that while fighting the phoenix force inside of her
Wanda is much more powerful nowadays. She got her magic from the demon Chton. Scarlet Witch's power is just small piece of the power of Chton, but Wanda beat him and absorded him. Now she controls all of chaos magic in the multiverse.
Jean can also play with Wanda's Emotions to shut her down or mess with her, we all know how fragile and how scarred her mind is (though I dont think Jean has the propensity or the morality to do that). Most of Wanda's spell also has some sort of "Casting Time" where Jean can insta-cast her powers.
@@efxnews4776 first, ive seen you comment 10 times on this exact post so im automatically going to assume all your opinions are biased as they are when i debunk you. chaos magic was stated to be simular to yin and yang with the phoenix force, chaos magic also was stated to be able to basically be autopiloted, wanda doesnt need to protect her mind when her chaos magic already knows jeans weaknesses due to her association with the phoenix force, jean is mopped easily
Wanda hasn't been struggling with her emotions after the whole run of the HOM and the following series. It's in the Darkhold Omega Series where she had to overcome her own pain to finally conquer Chthon
Thats already been tried on her, Wanda literally faked a sad reaction and turn the villain into stone with a single touch. Jean grey isn't messing with Wanda's mind.
I think that Wanda takes this 9/10 times and the reason why Jean gets one is because Wanda is kinda mentally unstable at times so if she gets to get in Wanda’s mind which there is that one out of the ten she can prolly have Wanda sobbing
True but Wanda’s mental instability has caused her to do dangerous things like house of m and such. Her mental state can be a weakness but it also makes her more dangerous
10/10 wanda being unstable is connected to her power...remember house of m? Make wanda insane or try to shut her brain off and the whole multiverse is getting erased for cthon to finally rule
What's interesting is that you actually considered their fighting styles, not just their overall abilities. Because I do think Wanda would be equipped to counter Jean and her telepathy, e.g., by changing the propability of Jean's success with psychic attacks or by casting a protection spell on herself or by stopping time. Wanda actually has the means to defend herself against anything Jean can do, while Jean doesn't necessarily have the means to defend herself against the vast range of effects that Wanda can achieve. But as you mentioned, it's not her go-to move. Someone else with Wanda's powers would probably be able to defeat Jean but Wanda herself might have a tough time due to her fighting style and the inconsistency of her own telepathic abilities (yes she's a telepath as well) as one time she seems resistant to telepathic attacks and another time she's very susceptible to them.
Wanda is not a telepath… she can use her powers to mimic telepathy… but she’s not a telepath.. fun fact her telekinesis is actually her just enchanting things too so she technically not even telekinetic
@@badboyddg You're right, but that doesn't change any of what I said. It may be a different power source, but it has the same effect. She definitely has the ability to fend off telepathic attacks. But like I said, her proficiency with telepathy and telepathic resistance is highly inconsistent throughout the comics, as are her powers in general. At one point, she's virtually unstoppable, even resisting the likes of Professor X, while at another point, she's easily put down by telepaths like Emma Frost, for example.
@@shimanopetermann9068 I agree with you on that part, except I don’t think she could defend herself against Jeans telepathy fast enough to save herself, maybe psylocke and Emma.. but definitely not Jean
@@badboyddgshe definitely could jean thinks at a normal human pace, wandas enhanced, Wanda can react to speed faster than sound even faster than that, she can definitely react to the mind blast, not to mention she actually has insane telepathy resistance, resisting Charles, as soon as jean gets into her mind, she’ll just throw her right back out. Chaos magic>jeans telepathy.
Yall forget that house of m wanda is not even in her correct state of mind, also she never had delete the entire mutant race, she didnt even effect jean as jean was in her own world that phoenix had created, jean will wipe wanda.
everybody knows that, but will she have time to say that before jean takes over her mind and control it? besides that's not sw's first attack. sw always starts a fight off with blasts, that there, is what will make her a weaker opp to jean. bc jean, first thing she does is go for your mind before she does anything else. that's where sw loses.
I mean granted, she was powered up by life force at that time and was also under mental stress. Like DanCo said, she starts out with firing hex bolts and energy blasts, Jean's advantage is she can easily attack from a distance with her Telepathy. She doesn't even need to be in the same area as Wanda to attack.
This fight is not about Wanda fighting Phoenix. Wanda displacing a the Phoenix force from a host while that host is partially distracted is not destroying the Phoenix force. Wanda cannot destroy the Phoenix force. Jean as the one true Phoenix in full control of that power is too much for Wanda. Every encounter between Hean and Wanda can’t be mentioned. The one thing I agree with is that the fight rides on whether Wanda can connect on a hex blast before Jean gets in her head. If she can’t it’s Jeans fight to win. Probability and hex won’t stop a pyschic attack. I think Jean wins because she can block some of wandas blast while at the exact same time attacking her mind
Wanda’s chaos magic affects the impossible making it possible so yes there is definitely a chance she can alter probability to send back, Jeans psychic attack if not turning off her powers all together because that is her go-to move as well. When she said no more mutants a cosmic force was unleashed that spread across all of creation known as the chaos wave it broke the membrane between universes, pushed back the Phoenix all the way back to the white hot room while also destroying countless other universes, resurrecting a powerful reality warper named Jim Jaspers, and even damaged the throne of TOAA. Even Megan with the powers of the beyonder could only hold the wave back for moments. Wanda with hope did actually kill the Phoenix as the lights in the white hot room went out, she is the chaos to the Phoenix’s order.
@@chaos1517 that is not how the Phoenix works. It is the sum total of all life that currently lives, has lived and will be. Life includes mutants, non mutants and other mutants. As long as there is life in the multi verse the Phoenix exists. Wanda can’t destroy an entity like. People in the white hot room were not affected. Wasn’t it actuall the Phoenix force that undid the damage caused by Wanda which started mutants being born again. No more mutants was not an attack in a one on one fight. It was an emotional response to finding out about her brother. In the marvels Defendees story line the power of the Phoenix force is stated as greater than the Beyonders. This is said by the Beyonder. More relevant is that this fight is not about House of M Wanda and white Crown Phoenix. As stated in the video in her base form Wanda has been mind controlled by lesser telepath than Jean. The fight boils down to whether Wanda can deliver a knockout blast before Jean can get in her mind.
@@chaos1517 Wanda is the raw powerhouse and she has the most different forms of attack. It is very impressive in her base form. A telepath who is as skilled as Jean who can also defend against the unit power attacks gives her a good shot at getting to Wanda. As stated in the video as Wanda is unleashing power attacks Jean is blocking and attacking her mind at the same time. In this case I think the video lays out a good scenario.
@@shawnbrisbon9304 I’m well aware of what the Phoenix force is, and I also know what comics have stated. Wanda with the help of hope summers briefly killed the Phoenix when they said “No More Phoenix” the lights in the white hot room went out and this is in comics not my opinion. Doom has also stated that Wanda’s chaos magic is superior to the beyonders power and in fact with a fraction of the life force granted by Wanda, he was able to make the Phoenix into his herald, that’s also in comics as well. I’m already aware that this is base form video, but even still when Wanda, said no more mutants she robbed nearly everyone across the multiverse of their powers, the spell was so strong in fact it threatened to annihilate all of existence and pushed the Phoenix back, in that moment they were even stated to be Yin and Yang. Since you want to talk about base forms I should remind you that, Wanda single handedly rejected the entirety of the Phoenix force when it tried to possess her and this was base Wanda. Not only that, but a base Wanda can block attacks from eternity with a single hand, she has also fought up against many abstract entities like the Inbetweener, chaos itself, and even Nyx. Not to mention the fact that base Wanda has already gone up against based form Jean three times in comics. She has come out on top of all three occasions by one shotting Jean, taking away her powers, and she trapped her in quicksand effectively making her useless. Also this video doesn’t go in depth on Wanda’s powers. She can even turn people’s force fields into solid crystal and alter probability to where you’re more likely to escape mind control. This “video” is biased and the comics prove as much.
@@chaos1517 I’m aware of that stuff but still disagree. No more Phoenix force with hopes help did not kill the Phoenix. You can’t kill something that is immortal. The comics states for decades it’s the sum total of all life. As long as there is life it exists. It can be expelled from hosts and even dissipated, but not killed. In the more recent defenders the Beyonders said the pure Phoenix is greater than his power. Comics always show different beings beating others at different points. Wanda’s weakness is her mind. That feeds directly into Jeans strongest power set stopping her. Nearly every character has been beaten or stopped by someone at different points. I don’t see a bias in this video.
Adult Jean Grey is one of the most terrifying characters in all comic book history. She has some pretty disturbing abilities. I don’t think Wanda could beat her.
Idk with this chaos version of Wanda it makes things much more difficult to grasp but I think if Jean uses the White Crown she should stalemate or come out on top Wanda beat a being of primordial so called chaos and absorbed that power ontop of her all ready unlimited amount of power she sent a wave of creation that would have destroyed all of creation While the Phoenix is literal creation itself all the abstracts bow to the Phoenix who is basically TOAA She is above the Multiversal forms of the Abstracts as well and stronger than the Beyonder as all of them is contained within her heart Both of them are badazz
@@mrkingdrago1013 yeah, but as far i heard wanda's power grows even more when complex situation comes in. the more complex the situation is, the more it gets stronger. that's why it is called "CHAOS" the more the situation is unfathomable, the more it works well.
@@napileericsony.1699 you're right chaos is the strongest but you can say the phoenix white crown is basically toaa as she supercedes Even the house of Ideas, beyonders, superflow and the mystery.. they both can do the same function Jean has way more experience though also with the knowledge of the phoenix
An aspect of Wanda I feel is constantly undermined is her strategic talent. But the greatest mistake one could make is to underestimate her capabilities. She once faced a woman in an armor that protected her from Wanda's magic, Wanda immediately noticed that she wouldn't be able to defeat her using her raw power. So she let's herself get a beating from her, allowing her to break through her magic force field and even get stabbed so that she could get close enough to land a final blow on her unprotected chin. Wanda is a quick thinker and always uses her surroundings to her advantage. Even back then when she'd only shoot hex bolts to loosen a screw, she posed a great threat to the X-Men. Her unpredictability often gives her the edge over her opponents, and the fact that she knows Jean personally from her mutant days would mean that Wanda knows Jeans weaknesses and could use these against her. These are just a couple more arguments for the Scarlet Witch that I feel should have been taken into consideration, though I don't really believe that this would win the battle for her it at least establishes more that they are somewhat equal in their powers and capabilities for me.
Do you have any ideia of how smart telepaths actually are? I give you a hint, theres no telepaths dumber than Einstein... And by the way telepaths rely on speed specially psionics like Jean that also has to deal with teleknesis. In some ways both Wanda and Jean use their powers in similar ways, the difference here is that Jean has far more control and had refined better her powers while Wanda's power due to the very nature of it, are unreliable.
@@efxnews4776 reality warping >> telepathy, also wandas an eldergoddess and now has as most would assume the mental strength of an eldergod, she mops the floor with jean then sends her to hell
Even without the Phoenix she has around 40 powers and abilities and she is nothing without her magic, , she is the only mutant level 5 in Marvel in existence with limitless potential, she still easily got into the head of the primordial God of darkness and Symbiots who was also a Elder God and found out how to defeat him without him even knowing that she was in his head and in the same time she was breaking the connection between Symbiots hive mind and Venom son, she many times bypassed the telepathic shielding of juggernaut and Magneto helms, she beat Nightmare who was a psychotic demon in his realm the same guy who trapped the Eternity,, she knocked out Gladiator, she beat avengers, Galactus, Jean easily lifted mountains that weight millions of pounds, she lifted a structure that was as tall as the world trade centre, she broke out of the Volcano, she survived explosion of the Phoenix and she absorbed it, the Phoenix is capable of destroying any creating universes and destroys and kills everything it. comes to contact with, she survived a blast that could destroy multiverse, she as the Phoenix has the power to create and destroy life, ,stars, Suns, planets, galaxies, universes, realities, black holes, she can eat stars, Suns planets for breakfast all the time killing billions of people, thePhoenix destroyed a fully habitated planet where 5 billions of people were living,planet and had 5 billions people living there, she can fly around the universes in seconds, she doesn’t need teleportation or telekinesis from move to one place to another like her,she beat Apocalypse, the Phoenix is immortal and indestructible personification of life, death, destruction, rebirth and burning away everything that doesn’t work 😂😂😂
@@emilyemilla Even without the Phoenix she has around 40 powers and abilities and she is nothing without her magic, , she is the only mutant level 5 in Marvel in existence with limitless potential, she still easily got into the head of the primordial God of darkness and Symbiots who was also a Elder God and found out how to defeat him without him even knowing that she was in his head and in the same time she was breaking the connection between Symbiots hive mind and Venom son, she many times bypassed the telepathic shielding of juggernaut and Magneto helms, she beat Nightmare who was a psychotic demon in his realm the same guy who trapped the Eternity,, she knocked out Gladiator, she beat avengers, Galactus, Jean easily lifted mountains that weight millions of pounds, she lifted a structure that was as tall as the world trade centre, she broke out of the Volcano, she survived explosion of the Phoenix and she absorbed it, the Phoenix is capable of destroying any creating universes and destroys and kills everything it. comes to contact with, she survived a blast that could destroy multiverse, she as the Phoenix has the power to create and destroy life, ,stars, Suns, planets, galaxies, universes, realities, black holes, she can eat stars, Suns planets for breakfast all the time killing billions of people, thePhoenix destroyed a fully habitated planet where 5 billions of people were living,planet and had 5 billions people living there, she can fly around the universes in seconds, she doesn’t need teleportation or telekinesis from move to one place to another like her,she beat Apocalypse, the Phoenix is immortal and indestructible personification of life, death, destruction, rebirth and burning away everything that doesn’t work 😂😂😂
@@Superfoczka1 Nice that you know the Pheonix's powers but base Jean barely has any of the powers or feats you listed and comparing base or Pheonix Jean to a depowered version of the Scarlet Witch doesn't prove anything. Wanda also has been able to defeat a primordial god being the one superior to her actually, Cthon who gave her her Chaos Magic. She absorbed him as well as the Dark Hold. She also has a variety of abilities and powers many of which are similar to Jean. What makes her as a magic user interesting though is that her magic is unique since there is no one else but her and Cthon who have access and control over Chaos Magic. Aside from Chaos Magic wielder and Cthon's vessel she is also a Nexus being, she can control probability and control the universal time stream and is a keystone in the Multiverse and crucial to its stability. She also has been able to take on and defeat powerful foes even at a disadvantage, namely Phoenix powered Magik and Namor, the Avengers and the X-Men
First of all Wanda is psychic too. And also we have also witnessed her magical word "What?" Her what is enough to wipeout all the abilities and even gene too. Hence, Wanda wins in any circumstances....🔥
yes she can do a lot of stuffs but she cannot do it at the same time, jean is an powerful empath and telepath if she feel any danger coming towards her she will definitely shut scarlet minds even shes a mile a way, as video suggested that she has the access of million of mutants mind in earth, meaning to say she can literally obliterate the scarlet with a thought
@@ravenroth2497 who said she can't do multiple stuffs together? Did you saw Wanda Vision or did you saw DR. Strange MOM ? She was multitasking there. She was fighting with illuminati, she was haunting Charles in his own mind and killed him, and meanwhile she was reading darkhold and doing dream walk and what else you want? In WandaVision also she was fighting with Agatha, she was playing with her mind and simultaneously she was giving some powers to Agatha and meanwhile she was also casting ruins there! What is the definition of Multitasking tell me?
Being a limitless telepath, there really is no shield Wanda could conjure that could stop her mental assault. Thankfully Jean is pretty nice lady and would probably leave her consciousness intact.
she literally does Wanda nullified her powers in an instance. And don't bring up how good her telepathy is, Wanda created a heaven, self resurrected herself without a cosmic entity, become telepathy goddess of chaos and absorbed cthon and the indestructible true dark hold, wiped mutants from the infinite multiverse, destroy all of the omniverse aka everything in existence and rewrote it again Wanda said no more speed, she's manipulated time, resurrected 16 million mutants. Jean is nothing for Wanda, Wanda would end her.
she cant.. even without Phoenix...Telepathy is OP it takes precedence. Jean is not just any telepath...she just thinks of it... no ritual no hand movements.. just on a whim mind shutdown
I think it’s very easy to forget that an omega level telepath isn’t bound by the same logic as an alpha level telepath. Breaking threw mental blocks is child’s play and they can take control almost instantly.
I think you’re underestimating probability and reality manipulation. In reality wanda can just say no more jean grey or just manipulate the possibilities and reality in her favor and that’s it’s lol there’s a reason writers make wanda just shoot energy blasts for the plot of a story because she’s so OP all it takes is a few words and she wipes out anyone.
I don't get why people always put them in a battle because this is so funny and insulting to the Phoenix Force, if we are talking about Jean and Scarlet Witch, they may be probably equally powerful but if we go beyond and take them with their fullest potential then it's a different story. I also don't get as to why people think that Scarlet Witch in her fullest is able to defeat the Phoenix Force? Like what?! Let us all confirm and reanalyze the context and comprehend the statements of the scans, because there are so many misconceptions happening like people keep saying “Wanda is immune to the Phoenix Force" that's totally wrong! Here we see Cyclops touched Wanda it hurt him, this ONLY happened when the Phoenix's raptor is divided in to 5 fractions and each one the host has only 1/5 powers, in this moment Cyclops only had 1/5 power of the Phoenix's raptor, and to think Cyclops is an extremely weak and incompatible host. Him being hurt doesn't mean the force is hurt, the host may get hurt but the Phoenix's raptor will never. Him being hurt doesn't imply Wanda having resistance or immunity to the force It even took the effort of Avengers and Scarlet Witch combined to defeat Namor with only 1/5 power of the Phoenix Force's raptor and Scarlet Witch completely collapsed. But after Cyclops gaining all the fractional powers of the Phoenix's raptor, all of them are stomped with no difficulty, he saw them as ants and all Wanda's powers did nothing but made him laugh. Despite all their efforts combined they did not hurt him, it did nothing despite the Phoenix holding back its power. The reason why they defeated him, it's because Jean, his only love, distracted him and begged him to stop the madness, and Cyclops did let the Phoenix go. Without Jean they would end up being dusts or funny ants. One biggest misconceptions is the “No More Phoenix" said to be including Wanda's power lol when actually it's only Hope's power, if Wanda is able to banish the Phoenix, she should've banished the Phoenix outside from Cyclops to stop the madness, but she didn't because she can't and she doesn't have the power to, please analyze these statements! Wanda told Hope that she is the only one to be able to let the Phoenix go because she only has the power to do so, Wanda never helped Hope in banishing the Phoenix, she helped only find her will, she only help Hope's hand to help her emotionally to banish the Phoenix from Earth. The yin yang concept, people have been saying that they are completely the opposites when they aren't, only those who have problems with reading comprehension will believe this thought, here we see this view but this was only Stark's, again ONLY STARK'S / IRON MAN'S theory, he analogized them as like yin yang because Scarlet made an unbreakable spell that decimates mutants and the Phoenix undid it DESPITE IT BEING CALLED UNBREAKABLE. That only happened that time and they are not the embodiment of the concept of Yin Yang because they are not opposites, they were just an epitome to that concept because they exhibited the process of the concept ONLY THAT TIME! So how can we rely on these people's faulty reasoning then if they claim that Scarlet is more powerful than the Phoenix Force when she is not lmao. Remember I mentioned about Phoenix's raptor, because the reality is that in each universe the Phoenix in there is just an ASPECT or a RAPTOR of the true Phoenix Force! It's not the true Phoenix Force. Beyonder's even confirmed this idea when they said that “finite beings cannot comprehend infinite beings so they have to dress themselves with a matter for the finite beings to perceive" so this means more that the Phoenix is just using this bird form to communicate and for the finite beings to perceive. Despite it being just a raptor or an aspect of the True Phoenix Force, it was able to do multiversal feats including Feron putting tower across the omniverse by wielding the power of the Phoenix Force's raptor. True Form Phoenix force is above Beyonder, the Beyonder blatantly admitted that he is an ant to the Phoenix Force, this the same Beyonder in Secret Wars, known as Pre-Retcon Beyonder, but more matured. Phoenix sees Beyonder as infinite little man which signifies that she is so much more infinitely more powerful than him. Remember when Rachel as a definitely untrained and significantly has lesser knowledge and experience as a host of the Phoenix Force overwhelmed the Beyonder, not only Rachel is a weak host but the Phoenix she was using is just the red Phoenix, and what she was using was only an avatar of the Phoenix, not the true Phoenix, again as what we mentioned before that every Phoenix in a universe is just an avatar or a raptor or an aspect of the True Phoenix Force. So this Phoenix is by centillions weaker than the true Phoenix Force, how unimaginable! Despite being a weak host and using only the red Phoenix, she was able to hurt and overwhelm the Pre-Retcon Beyonder. And when the multiversal Watcher who is omniscient stated already that the Phoenix Force is second to the One Above All, the most powerful and supreme being in the Marvel Universe, yet people did not believe this and tries to sound this like a joke when it is directly stated and is completely true since it's also more confirmed in the new issues in Defender's Beyond. With all these information, and to think that the Phoenix they are facing, and what Scarlet Witch was facing was JUST an AVATAR, A RAPTOR OR AN ASPECT of the True Phoenix Force and yet even the weakest versions of those avatars are able to stomp Scarlet Witch. Scarlet Witch in House of M, which is her strongest version, is able to warp in a multiversal level, and remember that the Phoenix Force is above the Multiverse/Omniverse, MultiEternity is the embodiment of the Omniverse yet he has no access beyond it since it's outside his being. So again with all these information, there's no way Scarlet Witch will win over the Phoenix Force, or Jean with the Phoenix Force, she has no chance at all. Even if infinite numbers of Scarlet Witches are to be combined, she will be obliterated and stomped instantly and that's the FACT! Hope this clears your mind and misconception and this should stop all these Jean Grey(Phoenix) vs Scarlet Witch debate
That would be true but the issue is speed. By the time Wanda could "think" to utter those words, jean could already mind wipe her, control her, ripe her mind apart or do whatever she mentally wises.
@@CAhmadDavis92 Okay so how does Jean Grey reaction speed outdo Wanda outraced Blur who outran the embodiment of Marvel cosmology Eternity, meaning he outran an omnipresent being. Yet Wanda outreacted him.
Scarlet witch manipulates probability, has beaten Jean grey before, and has reality warping on multiversal level, scarlet witch has wiped the phoenix force itself out of existence for some moments, wiped 99.9% of mutants by just words she said while crying Scarlet witch is very scary and the fact that she beat Jean grey before already solidifies her position in the fight This fight is to be determined by comics and in the comics she defeated the phoenix force, killed phoenix cyclops and defeated Jean grey. It is a fact not an argument. Whatever happened in the comics, should also apply here
This should be a no brainer. If someone can get into your mind and shut you down before you even prep an attack then you’ve got no business going up against them.
And the stans forget how fast Telepathy can be. Jean was also able to immediately react to Nimrod’s attack on Krakoa to save the other mutants from the shockwave in an instant. Jean has proven time and time again how fast she is
Wanda one shot her in Wakanda taking her out the fight completely and one shot several x men characters it’s not even close tbh, it’s way more close with the Phoenix force but Wanda takes this and it isn’t even close.
The oldest form of magic in Marvel and some of you are sleeping on it, because of who… Jean Grey? ☠️ "The earliest primordial glint of cosmic understanding and happenstance. The improbable, impossible spark of life flaring up -- that was chaos magic. Chaos magic is neither purely constructive nor destructive -- it's not limited by good or evil. It's the possibility of both, neither and everything in between. A die you cast. A balanced wheel moving between life and death."
I don't know man. Things have changed a lot, Wanda with her limited powers and emotionally unstable was able to defeat phoenix. But now Wanda has full control over her powers and now she has absorbed the elder god and dark hold in her spirit.
Literally Wandtards are Very Outdated. HAAHAAHA. The author of the dakrhold Omega Confirmed that SW did not gain any Powers After absorbing CTHON. Hahahaah
How in the world could she defeat the Phoenix? You can't destroy the energy of creation and life itself Without the Phoenix, she wouldn't even be alive.
@@AWater22 who said? In the Marvel Universe, it's already stated that the Phoenix force is the second most powerful entity only below TOAA. It didn't specify Chaos Magic anywhere. The Phoenix force gives spark to life, creation and destruction. Chaos magic only alters, it cannot create/destroy. How can you alter anything without the beginning of all things and the PF embodies both the beginning and the end.
People keep forgetting that the Scarlet Witch is an incredible telepath as well. She managed to control a whole town with her mind and has shown to incapacitate the Avengers with her telepathy by showing them their worst nightmares. She also managed to turn a whole army against Hayward, and even killed Professor X telepathically in his mind.
Wanda's telepathy is CRAP compared with Jean Grey telepathy, she needs to TOUCH people to mind control them, while Jean can sense her "prey" miles away and create a whole reality from affar... Jean would defeat Wanda longer before she even realize Jean is around.
@@emilyemilla Yeah, yeah... ever herd of the White Phoenix of the Crown? Jean Grey wouldn't do a sloppy "nO mOrE mUtAnTs", Jean Grey would prevent Wanda to even being BORN!
@@efxnews4776 "WhITe PhoEnIx oF ThE CroWn", I heard of WPOTC and thats not jean, thats all the phoenix just with jeans concouisness, Also again wanda has immunity to reality warping dumbass twink. And funny thing is, Eldergoddess wanda could easily warp WPOTC out of reality as right now wandas 10x more powerful and mentally stable then she was during house of madness / magneto / magnum. Try again
Proficiency. They can both turn off each other's x-gene. Wanda ended all mutants by saying "no more mutants", while Jean can manipulate anything at any level (micro or macro). I think, in an actual fight it would come down to how fast they attack each other and how well they can shield themselves. Psychic and magic should be able to top pretty much everything else like cosmic, science, tech, muscle, and maybe even deities. But it comes down to proficiency.
She only erred the mutants powers and she couldn’t do it to the most powerful mutants including Jean and Even without the Phoenix she has around 40 powers and abilities and she is nothing without her magic, , she is the only mutant level 5 in Marvel in existence with limitless potential, she still easily got into the head of the primordial God of darkness and Symbiots who was also a Elder God and found out how to defeat him without him even knowing that she was in his head and in the same time she was breaking the connection between Symbiots hive mind and Venom son, she many times bypassed the telepathic shielding of juggernaut and Magneto helms, she beat Nightmare who was a psychotic demon in his realm the same guy who trapped the Eternity,, she knocked out Gladiator, she beat avengers, Galactus, Jean easily lifted mountains that weight millions of pounds, she lifted a structure that was as tall as the world trade centre, she broke out of the Volcano, she survived explosion of the Phoenix and she absorbed it, the Phoenix is capable of destroying any creating universes and destroys and kills everything it. comes to contact with, she survived a blast that could destroy multiverse, she as the Phoenix has the power to create and destroy life, ,stars, Suns, planets, galaxies, universes, realities, black holes, she can eat stars, Suns planets for breakfast all the time killing billions of people, thePhoenix destroyed a fully habitated planet where 5 billions of people were living,planet and had 5 billions people living there, she can fly around the universes in seconds, she doesn’t need teleportation or telekinesis from move to one place to another like her,she beat the first mutant Apocalypse who had thousands of years of fighting experience,the Phoenix is immortal and indestructible personification of life, death, destruction, rebirth and burning away everything that doesn’t work 😂😂😂
Tbh, Wanda vs Jean at their full potentials would never end, they're equal to each other. The multiverse would be incinerated and destroyed in their fight.
I hate this analysis because it leaves no room for nuance. Scarlet knows who Jean is. They have even tangled before. Which means she has either witnessed what Jean is capable of or at least heard about it. Given that she knows Jean can probably oneshot her do you really think she will fight the exact same way she usually does? I guess it's possible, but is it likely? Doubt it. Jean has a chance here but in order to win I think she would need to get her attack off before Wanda can react. Otherwise Wanda can use probability magic to make Jean's attack fail and at that point she just has too many hacks.
@@livimarmarchan1359 seriously? I must not know comics to think Wanda has a chance? Literally every time they have gone head to head in comics Wanda has won. So perhaps you have never read a comic in your life making an asinine comment like that. Not even going to waste my time arguing with you.
Suggestions of the Day Young Justice vs Teen Titans Mario vs Sonic(Movie Versions) Ninja turtles vs Gotham Knights Honorable Mentions Omniman(TV Show) vs Kang (MCU) Justice League and Justice Society(DCEU) vs MCU Thanos Monsterverse Godzilla vs GOW 1-5 Kratos Who wins and why
This is really interesting. I'd give Wanda the edge here simply because base Wanda has absorbed Chthon whereas current Jean has no connections to PF (tho some stories are somewhat hinting of a reunion) I'm intrigued to see a video of you doing a video of Zatanna Vs Wanda, since both of them are often compared. Personally think Zatanna wins but I'd like to see your opinion
So they had to nerf Jean and buff Wanda? I thought it's already stated that they had to be inseparable cuz they're both 'sheet from the same cloth' . One needs the other to fully feel complete. They're contradicting themselves. The numerous times Jean rejected the Phoenix, it's either it got broken to pieces, incinerated her but forced the PF again to resurrect her, or got berserk/lost.
@@jayjade6003 uhmm.. yup I understand that but it's just becoming frustrating that they had to rewrite the connection between the PF and her. It's becoming so tiring.
@@ArJay1688 it's actually quite good imo. For so long, we've seen Jean rely alot on PF to amp her status as one of Marvel's strongest mutant to a point where the writers forgot to develop her telepathic abilities as just that. Nowadays, we've seen feats of Jean Grey beating the likes of Celestials and the symbiote God without the need for PF
This is far from true wanda wins as Wanda has one shot Jean in Wakanda already just by overpowering her and several x men character on multiple occasions at once, whether it is to put them to sleep or just with her sheer power. The fact that this fight shouldn’t even be close is crazy
@@Forgic07 it was a well mature team of x men, everyone knows the scarlet witch wins here, there isn’t no great that shows jean winning, all those feats are with the Phoenix, Wanda has one shot Emma frost and resist telepathic attacks from both professor x and Emma frost. This isn’t even closer or hard and y’all know this, this is just another one-shot and if any of Jean’s feat you think is better lemme know
remember when an angry teenage jean grey threw around the avengers like a bunch of ragdolls..? she was only stopped because of her team calming her down..
My head cannon is that this fight would end the world and different realities. The Phoenix energy is immense and universe destroying in itself, The Chaos energy that the Scarlet Witch works with can constantly rewrite that dying multiverse. Heroes, mutants etc would unite to bring down this duo resulting in catastrophe. After the phoenix and the witch have had their pissing contest destroying the world and friends/foes alike multiple times over , they would have to agree to disagree with eachother or continue to be the snake eating its own tail in a cataclysmic cycle of destruction and birth. Neither would win but they both would lose 🤷 😂
Imma lose my shit if Marvel would bring Wanda vs Jean to the big screen.
Marvel did that already.
@@johnetheridge5833no they have not, Jean is not even in the MCU shut up
@drippy623 Jean is in the MCU now. Marvel already bought the fox rights. Just a matter of when they will make xmen movies
@johnetheridge5833 when has Jean and Scarlett Witch ever been on the big screen together
@@BeholdtheTruthBrandon Doesn’t mean she is in the universe, she is not, they don’t even have a reason to her existing in the MCU yet
Wanda has beaten teen jean grey yes, but not adult jean whose telepathic abilities are powerful enough to break into the mind of the progenitor celestial or jean psi abilities protecting her friends from the psychic heaviness of the celestial or stomping out the entity nightmare with telepathy
I used to believe wanda would easily defeat jean grey no matter her age but after going through jean grey’s recent feats, I learnt jean has a shot in easily defeating wanda with telepathy
thank you! i respect the authenticity. i see you’ve read judgment day ;).
@@ambitions1964 yes I have and jean served!!!
50/50
@@liampatterson2946 100/0 .
@@ambitions1964 not 100/0, Jean's telepathy may be that strong but Wanda is not shut down by a psychic attack of all things. If it's a fight where both girls expect all their power sets, time manipulation and just plain probability manipulation will do. She has resisted onslaught and the distress of resistance for her is known to be one of the most destructive forces. I'd say 70/30 on Jean's favor but the variability of magic especially chaos magic can give Wanda an edge.
The fact that Jean took on Nightmare by herself and had him running is testament to her telepathy prowess.
Sw is no nightmare
Twice too like 😭😭
@@deenitish nightmare is better
@@camm8642 sw defeated dream queen (daughter of nightmare) in dream scape. Captured her in energy barrier amd changed her natural construct that earlier she feeded on peoples fear now she will feed on peoples bliss...so that she can give people blissful dreams.....
@@deenitish yeah that is nice jean defeated nightmare and took on a celestial and won without the phoenix
Totally agree with this one. Wanda is OP but her mind is her weakest spot. Mind blast is the first thing jean will do and she instantly finds Wandas weakness. Witches are very emotional and very sensitive with thier feelings easy to manipulate.
Reality manipulation vs Mind manipulation.
Her mind isn’t weak omg read her comics
@@Li-xb1mwit is tho
@@chrisl812 it is not read her latest comics where she talks about her past she’s not phased at all by anyone while she sealed cthon in her body
@@Li-xb1mw even so, Phoenix jean is far superior to Wanda
her mind is weak yet professor charles couldnt even control her mind and killed him through his mind omg
Am glad someone realizes how powerful Phoenix force is
This is both of them without amps like scarlet without house of m and jean without the pheonix
@@cameronandrews69420 Jean without Phoenix has Phoenix Raptor. If you don't know what can Phoenix Raptor do then ....
@@concensinovonandreim.959 idc what the pheonix raptor is
@@cameronandrews69420 Ofc u dont cuz that thing will instantly remove Wanda from reality
@@concensinovonandreim.959 it said without amps so cope
Jean is an omega level telepath... any power Wanda can THINK of... Jean shuts it down ...strong telepaths can shut down powers of other people on a WHIM... the only way Wanda can win is if she uses her power first but Phoenix will just revive Jean.. so its really just Jean who will win no matter what
so many ignorant people here DO NOT KNOW how powerful Jean's Telepathy is...
Wanda can 1 shot base Jean.. but she needs to HIT
base Jean DOES NOT NEED TO HIT... her Telepathy does not need to home it activates immediately it cannot be blocked as Wanda is not immune to it.. Wanda can resists telepathic attacks from some Telepaths but NOT a telepath like Jean Grey
not to mention Jean multitasks all the time... multiple telekinetic and telepathic attacks all at the same time which Wanda is not used to doing all the time...
all that power Wanda has, Jean's power is faster, efficient, precise and Wanda is not immune to it...Jean will always do the first hit.. and that first hit is enough to shut her off REGARDLESS OF ALL HER POWER
Wanda is weak to Jean's super power (among super powers) and that is the OMEGA TELEPATHY of Jean
You're one of the few intelligent and honest people here 🙏💥
facts. Jean is the Mutant Alpha, she gave birth to the powers of the mutant-kind. As she is the phoenix, now and forever.
@@WhitePhoenixJean Wrong Chaos Magic is Phoenix's Kryptonite, Wanda defeated Jean several times in comics even without Chaos Magic
Jean could pretty much do the MoM technique on Wanda that she did to blackbolt
Wanda: "I have spells!"
Jean: "No.... you don't"
Wanda: "Oh, I guess I don't"
or how about
Jean: "Wanda, act like a tree and leaf"
Scarlet Witch literally controls reality.
She could perma-trap Phoenix in an alternate universe where she keeps "winning" against SW forever and ever and Phoenix wouldn't even know better.
Once Jean gets in your mind you’re over. She’s the strongest telepath in the Marvel Universe and she has occasionally warped reality with her telepathy. Jean is just OP with or without her rightful host as The Phoenix. I do love both of these characters though, they are some of my favourite characters in the Marvel Universe. Jean is known for her reaction speed, she takes this. I love both characters though.
You're a damn lie. Loving a character does not mean you know them and you've proved you don't know them. A common misconception is that Jean is omnipotent in her ability to manipulate minds, but she's not. She got out did by a Celestial that had been dead for years, she's been beaten by Apocalypse multiple times, and overpowered by nate Grey. Jean is not the strongest telepath. Even if you want to say she is it doesn't help her at all, Wanda is faster then Jean in both travel and reaction speed. She has immeasurable speed and has already proved she can dodge mental attacks, yes DODGE them. Everytime Jean and Wanda fight Wanda had won, this isn't a fight at all. Wanda at base is consistently multiversal and Jean is barely solar system level. Wanda takes this and I can really get into why if you'd like.
And she has never warped reality with her telepathy-
Isnt sentry a stonger telepath?
@@EeveetoUmbreon25 Not technically, His psionic powers are more put to keeping his physical form together not mentally messing with others, but when he does use them psychokinetically he is extremely powerful.
@@BitterParadisehe did tho. When she let go of Phoenix Jean was literally changing reality everywhere she went without even knowing.
We've actually seen this like 3 times in comics, and Wanda defeated her each time
In Wanda's new comic she states you have 1 second to take your shot at her and you better not miss. She's literally already aware of Jean's powers like they're actual friends so she's not just gonna shoot bolts immediately. He literally based the fight off what he thinks she'll do first.
For real. One has solar system level destructive power, the other has reality shattering levels of power
We’ve also seen The Phoenix Five (minus Magik) all thrash, stalemate, KO, or outright swat away Wanda in pretty much every issue after 6 in AvsX, so…
Lol even the facts that wanda with simple hand flick literally made jean powerless in comics is just.......
Yeah wanda can get completely dragged cuz Red skull and Emma did it with their mind and hope with her simple knuckle hit
But that's not always the case at all cuz she literally rewrote xavier outta his existence when he tried to the famous "mind control" this editor is talking about
And took a direct chaos king force+ even a direct power hit from dr.doom and didn't even fainted
And even reacted to Pietro speed
So is mind control, durability, speed is always the problem against wanda?
No! I don't think so
@@certainly25 please, that's not a good argument
Raven (Titans) vs Scarlet Witch (MoM)
Scarlet Witch.
👑✨Raven ALL DAY✨👑
😭 Well, that’s not fair
Raven will lose badly. (sorry raven you’re still my fav teen tians)
It was said that “Darkness beats magic” in the comics. But i don’t know, this would be an impeccable fight. 💯
Jean whooped Nightmare's ass with LITTLE EFFORT and humiliated him in a way that one being of his level had ever previously known.
Two times as well! And even woke the souls that Nightmare tormented to turn it against him.
I’m shocked Jean was chosen, but this was a great analysis I agree with. People sleep on telepathy. It’s a beast of a superpower.
I would agree with u if it's not for the fact that he didn't put in there when Wanda one shotted jean 3 times in the comics and also stated that jean telepathy can not affect her hex. I notice he does this lot in some his videos when he wants some one to win he not mentioned the feats that they did or say like yea she has powerful hex but she wouldn't have time to use them on jean without even providing evidence of that been shown or states
Telepathy has nothing on wanda, have you watched multiverse of madness
@@Icantfeelyousugah this comics not live action
@@CityBoyJtt same effect
@@Icantfeelyousugah yes I watched it at least 5 times. This fight is not about the movie versions. I saw what she did to Charles being amped with the Darkhold. If you’re going off of that then you’re going up against the telepathy of Phoenix. Wanda still can’t stand up to that attack. Keep in mind professor X was temporarily able to freeze Wanda and enter her head without Cerebrospinal! In the last X-men movie Charles is unable to get in the head of Phoenix even when she is asleep. Charles had to get beast to turn Cerebrospinal up to dangerous levels just to see inside her head. The minute Phoenix wakes up Charles is easily knocked out. Wanda is an emotional wreck and she can’t take that kind of telepathic attack.
Ughhh as a huge fan of scarlet witch I’ll have to agree. Even at Wanda’s most powerful currently with Cthon and the dark hold absorbed into her, Jean would potentially be able to exploit that psychically. Especially since she’s shown to be bested with people getting in her head. I guess the only question is when Wanda is under Jean’s influence if she can get herself out of it
It’s 2023 and fans are still wondering who’s more powerful between these two ladies. Let’s make this dream rivalry come true in the MCU one day in the future!
Yes omg I still hoping
Jean's real rival is Emma Frost.........
Omggg where still waiting sense jean and wanda are “dead”😒😭
@@KahlilsC0uture the funny thing is that they hinted at both of them being alive at the end of both of there movies. Plus there is more versions of them in the multiverse
Too bad they're taking too long introducing the X-Men.
I agree. Wanda/Scarlet witch is powerful ( besides being nexus being) but Jean was the host of a nexus being( some may even argue that jean herself is a nexus being). Sure Scarlet Witch physically may best jean in the long run, but jean definitely will not be standing around getting hit. She held back a miniature sun, withstood blackbolts' voice, and manipulate molecules and atoms. Also speed is a telepaths' friend. And given jeans omega level telepathy, experience and control, Wanda wouldn't be able to conceive a thought or concept. Unless Scarlet witch's mental defense and stability improved, Jean would win. Heck, Jean would probably make Scarlet witch "believe" that she won, before successfully mindwiping her or riping her apart. 7/10 jean wins.
💥😇
Yeah, she was a host of a nexus being, but isn't wanda a nexus being
Agreed but more like 8/10 for me. Jean is already an Omega level mutant. Like Iceman would just Freeze her up and shatter all the pieces. But she's No Joke 😅👍💯🤨🤨
WHY are you Jean fans so delusional 💀
@@mckaylalakai7504 you're a fool. Wanda is Marvel's nexus being
Depends on writer. If Jean decides to kill it is over, but she usually doesn't resort to that. She can literally just turn people's mind off. Wanda can't work without a mind. Might just come down to who acts first I suppose.
This is actually very true. The reason why Jean doesn't show her true potential it's cause she's always hesitating and her nature doesn't want to kill but to nurture.
Tbh, even Chaos Magic works on autopilot. So it would automatically prevent her from doing that. Also, Wanda is immortal now after the Trial of Magneto...
Actually thats not true her powers were still working when her mind was shut down in avengers disassembled
@Hritvik Nijhawan Telepaths do shit to wanda all the time tho, it's never done anything
@@decidueyezealot8611 Lol i hope ur joking
You did a really good job describing both powerhouse woman in this scenario. Well said!
Wanda controls probability. So she could say something like there is a zero percent chance Jean can enter my mind. Or there is 100 percent chance if Jean tries to enter my mind she will die. The second Jean goes for a psychic attack on Wanda, Jean falls over dead without even knowing what hit her.
Damn is this fr accurate ? Cuz thats extremely OP holy
Nope! You can’t talk if you’re in a coma.😂
Kenya your nt very funny
This is comics not movies.
wanda can also view future probabilities and events so she can see what jean will do and find a way to counter it. he can also just slow down or freeze time and hen attack jean and kill her.
Wanda solos. In the comics, she’s listed as one of the few individuals who can kill the Phoenix Force plus she has beaten the Phoenix five. Now that she absorbed Chthon there’s no telling how much power she wields now.
@Scarletswitch No, jean grey(fenix)>scarlet witch
@@RM-qj8cs Sorry but Wanda>Jean
@@DarkC0smicPower XD
Cope harder
Jean Grey (Dark Phoenix)>>>>>Scarlet mid
White Phoenix>>>>+18>Infinity>>>>>HOM Scarlet witch
@@KingBeyonder616 you sound upset that Wanda solos flappy bird. Cry about it
the author of the book darkhole omega states that scarlet witch is not at the HOI (house of ideas) level.. meanwhile jean gray wpotc is at the HOI level.
Wanda's fans were shocked by this statement. But there are still many Wanda's fans who deny it, and continue to manipulate Scarlet Witch's data.
yea!
Source?
Facts
Not the lie.
This is one of if not the most dumbest comment I've seen in a while. WPOTC is not on the level of HOI , HOI is literally a representation of TOAA himself.
The problem with Wanda is that her mental fortitude is so inconsistent. She was able to mentally battle the elder god Set for a moment but then she falls to onslaught. One minute she’s able to turn back a mental probe on Jean and the next she is easily infiltrated by her. It’s too inconsistent to make sense but she has more less feats directly battling or overcoming telepathy and someone on jeans level would take her. I’m sure she’ll get some more telepathic resistance or battle feats in the future but as of now Jean would telepathy take her out. The only reason this isn’t a stomp is because current Wanda is just as versatile when it comes to using her powers.
ye i remember she battled someone amped (i think their name was like serpents crown or whtv) and she apparently battled this peron mentally across multiple dimensions and worlds or whtv. not sure if that is what it said but i think it is. and also your right wandas is just very inconsistent. like for e.g in Ave vs Xmen she was one shotting members of the phoe 5 and the next second she is literally just unable to do anything to another member. another example is her durability where she got hurt by an blast taht didn't even hit her and was actually blocked by one of her team mates but then she has also taken blasts form dr doom and cap americas shield to the head and was fine. she is just so inconsistent and if she was she would prob ahve some much betetr showings and feats.
P.I.S
@@tinapouha1 These durability feats are from 2 completely different Wanda's which is a terribly bad comparison, Her durability feats are now consistently good any from back then are outdated. Her mental defenses on the other hand are disregarded for the dumbest of plot reasons like red onslaught.
.☺️.
This isn't a weakness of her now. It's been established that she's "moved from" from the pain in the Darkhold Omega Series
Jean wins easily.. Wanda's greatest weakness is telepathy and Jean is the most powerful psychic in all the multiverse.
Even Black Panther states that Jean possesses the most powerful mind in the universe, no other being is comparable to her.
She is literally the perfect and most powerful Omega level mutant. The mutant Alpha, the all powerful.
Jean can match and even surpass Wanda with her telekinesis.. Wanda can't even counter Jean's vast telepathy..
Wanda is unarguably one of the most powerful but she needs time to cast powerful spells that could ruin Jean and I see that as a weakness.
Wanda's telekinesis is a bit stronger and jean can not get in her mind because of her power
@@doranicolaou9173 lol that's it?
@@afro_princess1671 girl I have more important things to do than fight on the internet and write an essay about supporting a fictional character more than another fictional character
Also you seem like a person that would laugh at someone for breathing
@@doranicolaou9173 so judgemental. And u r the one who responded to my comment. So next time, just don't.
@@afro_princess1671 ok I was just giving an opinion and your more judgemental girl
Great analysis and I personally think current Jean would win against current Wanda 8/10 times. Jean is an omega level telepath, way more powerful than Charles, who was able to “stabilize” Wanda’s mind when she was losing it from the mighty power of the Life Force during Avengers Disassembled and House of M. The fact that Prof. X was more than capable of stabilizing her (to an extent) means Jean should have no problem. Especially now in 2023 with all her current telepathic feats.
I also see some people mentioning Wanda post Darkhold Omega being more powerful. That isn’t true, I also thought she gained a power boost post Omega but the writer himself confirmed she did not. She only imprisoned Cthon within the Darkhold within her. Which is why she says that if she dies then he will be set free.
Ofcourse Wanda is a powerful reality warper and her probability manipulation definitely could help her win the battle. The thing is her mind can’t really defend herself (as the video mentioned) and although Wanda has one shot Emma, Emma has also one shot Wanda (both in the same storyline, Children’s Crusades) and we all know how much more powerful Jean is to Emma’s telepathy.
Just as easily as Wanda can push probability into her favor, Jean can set a thought in motion/suggestion in Wanda’s mind. Either calming her, controlling her or knocking her out. Telepathy is no joke and Jean is the Omega.
Jean Grey doesn't need pf to vaporize sw tho💀
Remember when Jean incinerated apocalypse a mutant deity to ash with just PYROKINESIS!??😂💥🙏
Jean's recent feats w/o the PF and her using telepathy has already overpowered gods, primordial entities and even Galactus itself couldn't even tell the difference between her and the PF even though she doesn't have the PF at that time. She mentioned that the PF had held her back cuz she'd relied on it but right now, she's totally godlike with her telepathy and it keeps on growing.
No...
Xavier wasnt exactly just using his telepathy to make Wanda fall asleep and he wasnt just doing it easily.
He was struglling ,bleeding and needed other sources to put Wanda to sleep.
Wanda actually overpowered Xavier badly in that same comic. Wanda warped Xavier out of existance before using his own mind to found out everyone'a most desired wishes. So logicaly she did overpower him with her telepathy bcs she wouldnt get into his mind without doing it so.
And how are u so sure that Jean is able to react to Wanda and take over her mind before Wanda erasing Jean from existance.
Jean struggled to even react to Wanda's hex bolts and was taken down several times(well one of the time she was a young jean but still).
Wanda reacted to her brother Pietro aka Quicksilver. Who is stated to be easily cappable of running in picosecond. Which is the one trillionth in one second. So Jean wont be able to react.
Also like u mentioned bunch of times she is very very powerfull to the point that she is able to fold reality like a piece of paper and erase it. She is immensly powerfull power house so there is no way of Jean winning over her with raw strength. Her only chance is her telepathy so Jean wins 1/10 bcs thats the only way of her winning.
@@bbygirl_whatruon
1. I never said Charles handled Wanda easily, I said he was able to “stabilize” her to an extent, which he did. Also that wasn’t base Wanda, that was Wanda with the Life Force, and Charles was still able to stabilize her like I said to an extent.
2. Wanda doesn’t have telepathy, she got into Charles mind because he linked their minds together, that’s how telepaths work lol. Wanda can’t penetrate anyone’s mind on her own, she’s not telepathic.
3. Wanda cant erase Jean because Jean is immune to reality warping (as is Wanda) since they are both nexus beings. However, Wanda isn’t immune to telepathy or telekinesis and Jean could decimate Wanda atom by atom with a thought.
4. Again, Jean takes this 8/10 times. Idk if you been keeping up with her feats as of 2023 but she’s grown exponentially and that’s without any Phoenix Force amplification. I read/own both Jean and Wanda comics so I feel confident in my answer.
My favorite x men! Jean grey will always come out victorious! 🙌🏿
Scarlet Witch beats Jean Grey but Jean Grey possessed by The Phoenix Force kills Wanda and Jean is an Omega Level Mutant and has a psionic form so she can probably kill Wanda without the Phoenix Force.
“ no more mutants “ go burrrrrr
@@Spiceodog Yet Jean Grey wasn't there and has no association with the House of M storyline.
Hmm I wonder why 🤔
@@Spiceodog Jean Grey has resurrection abilities
She's beyond reality and time-space continuum when bonded with Phoenix Force
Jean Grey 💥 incinerates sw 🧹
darkhold omega wanda is on the same level as the one above all
@@dillonhall3294 Who said or is that what you think 😂 take this big L an Woooooosh
Scarlet Witch is indeed powerful and has overpowered magical abilities that make her a threat in both the comics and the MCU. But the thing is that Dark Phoenix is a threat to the entire universe as her powers are cosmic-level. In that regard, it is easy to see why Dark Phoenix is the more powerful character. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
And you think Chaos Magic isn't?
This isn’t about Phoenix. We’re talking about Jean Grey. Pay attention.
Wanda creates pocket universes for fun girl what? Wanda is a threat to omniverse BYEE
@@YoEarn if it is about Jean then it is about the Phoenix because Jean is the Phoenix and the Phoenix is Jean
@@jonadol that's false lol. There are many ppl that like to do versus matches with or without phoenix.
You also forgot about her psionic energy, which she can use to make a phoenix raptor and has knocked out Galactus with her psionic energy
YUP
If Jean Grey got the Phoenix Force she wins!
Vs movie Wanda ? Sure. Vid comic Wanda , not the slightest chance
@Owen Keenan Jean(fenix) comic or live action>wanda(comic or live action)
@@RM-qj8cs Tienes razon
@@Spiceodog jean wins either way she literally can't die 😂😂
with Wanda 100% wielded Chaos Magic I doubt about it, Chaos Magic is Phoenix Force's Kryptonite
I believe since wanda knows what Jean is capable of, she will first manipulate jean’s telepathy, causing it to backfire or completely shut off and then win from there
How are you so sure that Jean's telepathy can easily manipulated by Wanda when Jean is also the most powerful telepathy user on the planet. Plus, in new recently released comic, Jean easily beat CELESTIAL without Phoenix by just using Telepathy
@Concensino, Von Andrei M. umm because Wanda's power literally controls probability, including the possibility that Jean's powers can shut down or backfire, makes plenty of sense
@@yoyomayne but Scarlet witch's probability powers are not infinite and has a range. When she did 'no more mutants', she did not affect *all* mutants. So her powers are not 100% precise and unstable, so there's that.
@@ThePhoenixEntity We'll Wanda has bested Jean like 3 times in comics because they did work, so there's that
@YOYO510 once when they were teenagers and prof x was holding back jeans potential with mental locks, and another time when jean grey was a little girl vs an old and experienced wanda......it's worth noting this little girl Version was able to bypass Wanda's mental defenses and read her mind without wanda noticing.
Great breakdown & yes Jean definitely wins this
Jean takes over her mind ..fights over ...Phoenix or no Phoenix..her telepathy is insane ..she wins
Um...you see what wanda did to Proff.X jean is getting snapped
Wanda already one shotted jean 3 times in the comics
I said Jean wins
@@garfieldpink8132 and that's ur opinion but it's not a fact,🤷🏾♂️
@@CityBoyJtt not going to do this with u ...coz it's a fact scarlet can't defend against telepathy ..so in that area Jean is goin to turn the fight in her favor..that's a fact
I agree, Jean is stronger than Wanda. Plus we all know SW spell didn't erased every mutants. So the one's that survived that spell are much stronger than her. Also Jean has resurrected herself without the Phoenix. Not forgetting how mentally unstable Wanda is 😅.
Just because they weren't erased by the spell doesn't mean that they're more powerful than her because there were Emma frost and doctor strange's interferences(plot armor). Also SW now has been better mentally just showed how much you've been missed out. I can't believe you just decided who's more powerful by just one circumstance. meanwhile Jean had been beaten by Wanda multiple times, why didn't you mention any of those? you jean grey stans are freaking unbelievable
Your whole argument became null when you pulled the unstable narrative. leah williams tried so frickin hard in trials of magneto comic to erase that narrative from Wanda's past, present and future yet yall still using this narrative shows that you shouldn't be in this discussion
The PF also reversed her magic
@@Lady500-x6p exactly. It was the of that reverse her no more mutant spell.
IVE BEEN WAITING ON THIS ONE
These things always leave out so much. One of Jeans key powers is something that always gets sidelined. Jean is telekinetic at the subatomic level. She can alter the very nature of matter itself. Also There is only one Phoenix Force in the entire multiverse. She is the sum total of all life force in the multiverse, past, present AND future! What part of omnipotent does this not address? She squared off against Galactus, AND HE BACKED DOWN! She held a dying universe in the palm of her hand and HEALED it! I’m thinking of a story line where Jean, using her SUPERIOR telepathic abilities, to locate the parts of Wanda’s mind affected by all the trauma she’s known, and heals them all. They become fast POWERFUL friends and the X-men get to add a new POWERFUL bit of eye candy to their line up.
Emma easily went into her mind one time. Can’t see how Jean couldn’t.
Jean in old comics is often underplayed and most of them is Jean being the old “damsel” in distress. Whilst throughout the years, her powers were changed. Wanda is powerful indeed but Jean can easily play with her mind.
I think it really would depend on the circumstances and context. Scarlet Witch usually goes for energy blasts but if given even a tiny bit of time, she can be sneaky and use her other powers as well as her surroundings to fight. Also, Scarlet Witch basically has telekinesis so she'd hold her own, I'd imagine she'd have some magical forcefield as armor.
Wanda uses her probability power in her energy blast. She throws hex bolts that aren't just blast but if one hits you it does more than just damage it hexes you.
She has magical shield around her on auto pilot.
Even without the Phoenix she has around 40 powers and abilities and she is nothing without her magic, , she is the only mutant level 5 in Marvel in existence with limitless potential, she still easily got into the head of the primordial God of darkness and Symbiots who was also a Elder God and found out how to defeat him without him even knowing that she was in his head and in the same time she was breaking the connection between Symbiots hive mind and Venom son, she many times bypassed the telepathic shielding of juggernaut and Magneto helms, she beat Nightmare who was a psychotic demon in his realm the same guy who trapped the Eternity,, she knocked out Gladiator, she beat avengers, Galactus, Jean easily lifted mountains that weight millions of pounds, she lifted a structure that was as tall as the world trade centre, she broke out of the Volcano, she survived explosion of the Phoenix and she absorbed it, the Phoenix is capable of destroying any creating universes and destroys and kills everything it. comes to contact with, she survived a blast that could destroy multiverse, she as the Phoenix has the power to create and destroy life, ,stars, Suns, planets, galaxies, universes, realities, black holes, she can eat stars, Suns planets for breakfast all the time killing billions of people, thePhoenix destroyed a fully habitated planet where 5 billions of people were living,planet and had 5 billions people living there, she can fly around the universes in seconds, she doesn’t need teleportation or telekinesis from move to one place to another like her,she beat Apocalypse, the Phoenix is immortal and indestructible personification of life, death, destruction, rebirth and burning away everything that doesn’t work 😂😂😂
@@FoxyGuyHere Even without the Phoenix she has around 40 powers and abilities and she is nothing without her magic, , she is the only mutant level 5 in Marvel in existence with limitless potential, she still easily got into the head of the primordial God of darkness and Symbiots who was also a Elder God and found out how to defeat him without him even knowing that she was in his head and in the same time she was breaking the connection between Symbiots hive mind and Venom son, she many times bypassed the telepathic shielding of juggernaut and Magneto helms, she beat Nightmare who was a psychotic demon in his realm the same guy who trapped the Eternity,, she knocked out Gladiator, she beat avengers, Galactus, Jean easily lifted mountains that weight millions of pounds, she lifted a structure that was as tall as the world trade centre, she broke out of the Volcano, she survived explosion of the Phoenix and she absorbed it, the Phoenix is capable of destroying any creating universes and destroys and kills everything it. comes to contact with, she survived a blast that could destroy multiverse, she as the Phoenix has the power to create and destroy life, ,stars, Suns, planets, galaxies, universes, realities, black holes, she can eat stars, Suns planets for breakfast all the time killing billions of people, thePhoenix destroyed a fully habitated planet where 5 billions of people were living,planet and had 5 billions people living there, she can fly around the universes in seconds, she doesn’t need teleportation or telekinesis from move to one place to another like her,she beat Apocalypse, the Phoenix is immortal and indestructible personification of life, death, destruction, rebirth and burning away everything that doesn’t work 😂😂😂
U r copying the utuber ...did sw use ger hex bolts against black bolt prof reed or xavier....
Phoenix wins, it covered way more layers in cosmology too
That’s a separate entity and not fair to Wanda. The video clearly states wanda vs BASE jean and base jean gets curbstomped by Wanda. And if we’re being fair life force vs phoenix that’s fair. Wanda has also beat phonies many times
@@maybeitsmen Jean gray is the most close to the Phoenix than anyone, and she still has some of its essence in her currently, not for anything she also became the white Phoenix too. She easily is way more fundamentally inverse wise than Wanda. Wanda only wins with plot tbh
And where's the phoenix? With Echo right
@@Fernandopriet duh we are using jeans version
@@maybeitsmen you can't just be the perfect host and be the ONLY true Avatar of the Phoenix itself if you're not very powerful at your base. She can even control the Phoenix and succumb it to her will.
Thor - Hulk - Juggernaut - HerCules - Thing - Red Hulk - Colossus - SheHulk - Namor - Vision - LukeCage
Captain Marvel Silver Surfer
Gladiator Black Bolt
Adam Warlock WonderMan
Sentry/Blue M Ikaris
Hyperion
I disagree with everybody in the comments Scarlet witch doesn't even have a chance against Jean gray and let's not forget dark Jean grey or let's take it up to the ultimate level 🔥Phoenix 🔥 and let's not forget she has four different forms 🖤dark🖤 🔥Phoenix🔥
Man, this one seems like a tough call but I think youre right even with the mind hex, Scarlet Witch would have her mind taken over pretty quick.
Dude do more research or actually at this point do any research. Wanda has not only defeated her what 3 or 4 times she can kill the Phoenix as I done, finished. I know you know comics better than you act and your actually putting these ridiculous wins and losses to get people fired up in the comments but it would be better to just put out accurate content.
Jean without the phoenix is a complete powerhouse its good to see her develop outside of just the PF unlike Wanda who is in need of constant amps and numerous retcons to justify her place in the marvel pantheon many of which contradict each other and don't even come close to making sense half the time.......that Jean's genetic kids are all so powerful to Rachel and Nate Grey, Cable, Stryfe etc.....is just evidence of an immensely powerful lineage.
Base Wanda is levels ahead of no Phoemix Jean. Dedeated multiversal creatures, blocked House of Ideas energy, summoned and controlled Dormammu. Don't even. Wanda solos
@Ariadna Malakhovskaya no she isnt
You're a liar Wanda needs no power ups she's the powerup😂😂😂
@@hillaryelgon2388 marvel disagrees they have been steadily amping her in recent years still won't make her a good character tho or stronger
Fax
Jean Grey stomps
Wanda is overrated
Next
Ryu vs Iron Fist or Shang Chi
Iceman vs Sub Zero
The Thing Marvel vs Solomon Grundy
Colossus vs King Shark
Luke Cage vs Mr Incredible
Black Bolt vs Shazam
Hyperion vs Zod
Galactus vs Imperiex
Starfire vs Omniman
Hancock vs Icon or Superboy
Hercules marvel vs Hercules DC
in the comics, Scarlet Witch can even kill the Phoenix, what Jean stomps are you talking about? LOL, even at both bases, Wanda defeated Jean several times
Depends.
Wanda>>>Base Jean
but the moment she become the phoenix its over for her
You’re absolutely correct Wanda is not 1% close to Jean Grey
Jean always wins
Without the Phoenix force Scarlett witch wins. Looked what happened to a huge chunk of the mutant population in house of M
Jean is much stronger since she’s not holding back. Her telepathy can reach Moon, Mars and even other dimension. She’s able to enter the Eternal unimind and infiltrate their voting on whose going to be the prime eternal. She’s able to protect thousands of people from psionic attacks and her TK has been raised to omega level. She’s both omega level in those categories. Think twice. Wanda’s magic do not affect omega levels
so......most of them got there powers back in different ways.......and some kept them inspite of all scarlet witches power thanks to dr strange and emma frost.
When it comes to telepathy I don't think Wanda would win on jean since professor x entered Wanda's mind even without the cerebro while if you guys watch the dark phoenix movie and still remember it professor x with cerebro can't even enter jean minds without struggling and when jean woke up professor x got knocked out and in fact jean did that while fighting the phoenix force inside of her
Professor x tried and got a nose bleed girl what?
@@WinniePooh33 exactly
@@Lucretia19 Yea and he couldn't read her mind.
And then comes Jean Gray: Omega level fainting expert
still better then wanda much better
Wanda is much more powerful nowadays. She got her magic from the demon Chton. Scarlet Witch's power is just small piece of the power of Chton, but Wanda beat him and absorded him. Now she controls all of chaos magic in the multiverse.
so is Jean Grey....and this is without the Phoenix
@@camm8642wanda has magic change the fact just like in WandaVision🤫
@@lecowardjames gr8 for her jean can still overcome wanda
@@camm8642 WANDA HAS MAGIC CHANGE EVERYTHING
@@camm8642 magic can change everything
Jean Grey will win. There is no doubt! Her telepathy is without limits!
DanCo I Love your Work Bro Great Job ❤🤩
Jean can also play with Wanda's Emotions to shut her down or mess with her, we all know how fragile and how scarred her mind is (though I dont think Jean has the propensity or the morality to do that). Most of Wanda's spell also has some sort of "Casting Time" where Jean can insta-cast her powers.
Jean would most likely make Wanda believe that everything is fine and put her to sleep... pretty easy trick for a telepath like her.
wandas emotions make her stronger
@@efxnews4776 first, ive seen you comment 10 times on this exact post so im automatically going to assume all your opinions are biased as they are when i debunk you. chaos magic was stated to be simular to yin and yang with the phoenix force, chaos magic also was stated to be able to basically be autopiloted, wanda doesnt need to protect her mind when her chaos magic already knows jeans weaknesses due to her association with the phoenix force, jean is mopped easily
Wanda hasn't been struggling with her emotions after the whole run of the HOM and the following series.
It's in the Darkhold Omega Series where she had to overcome her own pain to finally conquer Chthon
Thats already been tried on her, Wanda literally faked a sad reaction and turn the villain into stone with a single touch. Jean grey isn't messing with Wanda's mind.
I think that Wanda takes this 9/10 times and the reason why Jean gets one is because Wanda is kinda mentally unstable at times so if she gets to get in Wanda’s mind which there is that one out of the ten she can prolly have Wanda sobbing
Wanda has gotten over her mental unstableness
True but Wanda’s mental instability has caused her to do dangerous things like house of m and such. Her mental state can be a weakness but it also makes her more dangerous
@@mrkingdrago1013 that’s true
@@DarkC0smicPower that’s so true tbh.
10/10 wanda being unstable is connected to her power...remember house of m? Make wanda insane or try to shut her brain off and the whole multiverse is getting erased for cthon to finally rule
would be very interesting to see a video of chaos magic vs phoenix force. Since they're the most powerful energies.
What's interesting is that you actually considered their fighting styles, not just their overall abilities. Because I do think Wanda would be equipped to counter Jean and her telepathy, e.g., by changing the propability of Jean's success with psychic attacks or by casting a protection spell on herself or by stopping time. Wanda actually has the means to defend herself against anything Jean can do, while Jean doesn't necessarily have the means to defend herself against the vast range of effects that Wanda can achieve. But as you mentioned, it's not her go-to move. Someone else with Wanda's powers would probably be able to defeat Jean but Wanda herself might have a tough time due to her fighting style and the inconsistency of her own telepathic abilities (yes she's a telepath as well) as one time she seems resistant to telepathic attacks and another time she's very susceptible to them.
Wanda is not a telepath… she can use her powers to mimic telepathy… but she’s not a telepath.. fun fact her telekinesis is actually her just enchanting things too so she technically not even telekinetic
@@badboyddg You're right, but that doesn't change any of what I said. It may be a different power source, but it has the same effect. She definitely has the ability to fend off telepathic attacks. But like I said, her proficiency with telepathy and telepathic resistance is highly inconsistent throughout the comics, as are her powers in general. At one point, she's virtually unstoppable, even resisting the likes of Professor X, while at another point, she's easily put down by telepaths like Emma Frost, for example.
@@shimanopetermann9068 I agree with you on that part, except I don’t think she could defend herself against Jeans telepathy fast enough to save herself, maybe psylocke and Emma.. but definitely not Jean
@@badboyddgshe definitely could jean thinks at a normal human pace, wandas enhanced, Wanda can react to speed faster than sound even faster than that, she can definitely react to the mind blast, not to mention she actually has insane telepathy resistance, resisting Charles, as soon as jean gets into her mind, she’ll just throw her right back out. Chaos magic>jeans telepathy.
Yall forget that house of m wanda is not even in her correct state of mind, also she never had delete the entire mutant race, she didnt even effect jean as jean was in her own world that phoenix had created, jean will wipe wanda.
I like the last part, "JEAN GREY WINS" PERIOD!.. ❤
I don’t understand why you didn’t include the phoenix force? You said house of M then it’s supposed to be house of M vs White Phoenix of the crown.
Jean as Phoenix wins. Jean as herself loses to wanda.
Scarlet Witch (MoM) vs Doctor Strange from earth 838 (MoM)
You’re forgetting that Wanda wiped out roughly half of the mutant population with just 3 words… “No more mutants”
everybody knows that, but will she have time to say that before jean takes over her mind and control it? besides that's not sw's first attack. sw always starts a fight off with blasts, that there, is what will make her a weaker opp to jean. bc jean, first thing she does is go for your mind before she does anything else. that's where sw loses.
I mean granted, she was powered up by life force at that time and was also under mental stress. Like DanCo said, she starts out with firing hex bolts and energy blasts, Jean's advantage is she can easily attack from a distance with her Telepathy. She doesn't even need to be in the same area as Wanda to attack.
jean is literally clapping wanda easily idgaf what yall say
She isn’t tho and it’s not close
@@kobefayard7664 yes she did if she has phoenix force.
@@ryuuzaki4058nope that’s child’s play for Wanda in comics
@@onepain2217proof cuz lit tune king thor knocked wanda out with one hit so phoenix easily claps
@@onepain2217Jean with Phoenix is a nightmare for anyone who wishes to go against her
I requested this match up months ago but im glad to see he's doing it now!
This fight is not about Wanda fighting Phoenix. Wanda displacing a the Phoenix force from a host while that host is partially distracted is not destroying the Phoenix force. Wanda cannot destroy the Phoenix force. Jean as the one true Phoenix in full control of that power is too much for Wanda. Every encounter between Hean and Wanda can’t be mentioned. The one thing I agree with is that the fight rides on whether Wanda can connect on a hex blast before Jean gets in her head. If she can’t it’s Jeans fight to win. Probability and hex won’t stop a pyschic attack. I think Jean wins because she can block some of wandas blast while at the exact same time attacking her mind
Wanda’s chaos magic affects the impossible making it possible so yes there is definitely a chance she can alter probability to send back, Jeans psychic attack if not turning off her powers all together because that is her go-to move as well. When she said no more mutants a cosmic force was unleashed that spread across all of creation known as the chaos wave it broke the membrane between universes, pushed back the Phoenix all the way back to the white hot room while also destroying countless other universes, resurrecting a powerful reality warper named Jim Jaspers, and even damaged the throne of TOAA. Even Megan with the powers of the beyonder could only hold the wave back for moments. Wanda with hope did actually kill the Phoenix as the lights in the white hot room went out, she is the chaos to the Phoenix’s order.
@@chaos1517 that is not how the Phoenix works. It is the sum total of all life that currently lives, has lived and will be. Life includes mutants, non mutants and other mutants. As long as there is life in the multi verse the Phoenix exists. Wanda can’t destroy an entity like. People in the white hot room were not affected. Wasn’t it actuall the Phoenix force that undid the damage caused by Wanda which started mutants being born again. No more mutants was not an attack in a one on one fight. It was an emotional response to finding out about her brother. In the marvels Defendees story line the power of the Phoenix force is stated as greater than the Beyonders. This is said by the Beyonder. More relevant is that this fight is not about House of M Wanda and white Crown Phoenix. As stated in the video in her base form Wanda has been mind controlled by lesser telepath than Jean. The fight boils down to whether Wanda can deliver a knockout blast before Jean can get in her mind.
@@chaos1517 Wanda is the raw powerhouse and she has the most different forms of attack. It is very impressive in her base form. A telepath who is as skilled as Jean who can also defend against the unit power attacks gives her a good shot at getting to Wanda. As stated in the video as Wanda is unleashing power attacks Jean is blocking and attacking her mind at the same time. In this case I think the video lays out a good scenario.
@@shawnbrisbon9304 I’m well aware of what the Phoenix force is, and I also know what comics have stated. Wanda with the help of hope summers briefly killed the Phoenix when they said “No More Phoenix” the lights in the white hot room went out and this is in comics not my opinion. Doom has also stated that Wanda’s chaos magic is superior to the beyonders power and in fact with a fraction of the life force granted by Wanda, he was able to make the Phoenix into his herald, that’s also in comics as well. I’m already aware that this is base form video, but even still when Wanda, said no more mutants she robbed nearly everyone across the multiverse of their powers, the spell was so strong in fact it threatened to annihilate all of existence and pushed the Phoenix back, in that moment they were even stated to be Yin and Yang. Since you want to talk about base forms I should remind you that, Wanda single handedly rejected the entirety of the Phoenix force when it tried to possess her and this was base Wanda. Not only that, but a base Wanda can block attacks from eternity with a single hand, she has also fought up against many abstract entities like the Inbetweener, chaos itself, and even Nyx. Not to mention the fact that base Wanda has already gone up against based form Jean three times in comics. She has come out on top of all three occasions by one shotting Jean, taking away her powers, and she trapped her in quicksand effectively making her useless. Also this video doesn’t go in depth on Wanda’s powers. She can even turn people’s force fields into solid crystal and alter probability to where you’re more likely to escape mind control. This “video” is biased and the comics prove as much.
@@chaos1517 I’m aware of that stuff but still disagree. No more Phoenix force with hopes help did not kill the Phoenix. You can’t kill something that is immortal. The comics states for decades it’s the sum total of all life. As long as there is life it exists. It can be expelled from hosts and even dissipated, but not killed. In the more recent defenders the Beyonders said the pure Phoenix is greater than his power. Comics always show different beings beating others at different points. Wanda’s weakness is her mind. That feeds directly into Jeans strongest power set stopping her. Nearly every character has been beaten or stopped by someone at different points. I don’t see a bias in this video.
Adult Jean Grey is one of the most terrifying characters in all comic book history. She has some pretty disturbing abilities. I don’t think Wanda could beat her.
Idk with this chaos version of Wanda it makes things much more difficult to grasp but I think if Jean uses the White Crown she should stalemate or come out on top
Wanda beat a being of primordial so called chaos and absorbed that power ontop of her all ready unlimited amount of power she sent a wave of creation that would have destroyed all of creation
While the Phoenix is literal creation itself all the abstracts bow to the Phoenix who is basically TOAA
She is above the Multiversal forms of the Abstracts as well and stronger than the Beyonder as all of them is contained within her heart
Both of them are badazz
wanda is also connected to house of ideas
@@napileericsony.1699 both is nexus beings both is basically untouchable
@@mrkingdrago1013 yeah, but as far i heard wanda's power grows even more when complex situation comes in. the more complex the situation is, the more it gets stronger. that's why it is called "CHAOS" the more the situation is unfathomable, the more it works well.
@@napileericsony.1699 you're right chaos is the strongest but you can say the phoenix white crown is basically toaa as she supercedes
Even the house of Ideas, beyonders, superflow and the mystery.. they both can do the same function Jean has way more experience though also with the knowledge of the phoenix
An aspect of Wanda I feel is constantly undermined is her strategic talent. But the greatest mistake one could make is to underestimate her capabilities. She once faced a woman in an armor that protected her from Wanda's magic, Wanda immediately noticed that she wouldn't be able to defeat her using her raw power. So she let's herself get a beating from her, allowing her to break through her magic force field and even get stabbed so that she could get close enough to land a final blow on her unprotected chin. Wanda is a quick thinker and always uses her surroundings to her advantage. Even back then when she'd only shoot hex bolts to loosen a screw, she posed a great threat to the X-Men. Her unpredictability often gives her the edge over her opponents, and the fact that she knows Jean personally from her mutant days would mean that Wanda knows Jeans weaknesses and could use these against her.
These are just a couple more arguments for the Scarlet Witch that I feel should have been taken into consideration, though I don't really believe that this would win the battle for her it at least establishes more that they are somewhat equal in their powers and capabilities for me.
Do you have any ideia of how smart telepaths actually are?
I give you a hint, theres no telepaths dumber than Einstein...
And by the way telepaths rely on speed specially psionics like Jean that also has to deal with teleknesis.
In some ways both Wanda and Jean use their powers in similar ways, the difference here is that Jean has far more control and had refined better her powers while Wanda's power due to the very nature of it, are unreliable.
@@efxnews4776 reality warping >> telepathy, also wandas an eldergoddess and now has as most would assume the mental strength of an eldergod, she mops the floor with jean then sends her to hell
Even without the Phoenix she has around 40 powers and abilities and she is nothing without her magic, , she is the only mutant level 5 in Marvel in existence with limitless potential, she still easily got into the head of the primordial God of darkness and Symbiots who was also a Elder God and found out how to defeat him without him even knowing that she was in his head and in the same time she was breaking the connection between Symbiots hive mind and Venom son, she many times bypassed the telepathic shielding of juggernaut and Magneto helms, she beat Nightmare who was a psychotic demon in his realm the same guy who trapped the Eternity,, she knocked out Gladiator, she beat avengers, Galactus, Jean easily lifted mountains that weight millions of pounds, she lifted a structure that was as tall as the world trade centre, she broke out of the Volcano, she survived explosion of the Phoenix and she absorbed it, the Phoenix is capable of destroying any creating universes and destroys and kills everything it. comes to contact with, she survived a blast that could destroy multiverse, she as the Phoenix has the power to create and destroy life, ,stars, Suns, planets, galaxies, universes, realities, black holes, she can eat stars, Suns planets for breakfast all the time killing billions of people, thePhoenix destroyed a fully habitated planet where 5 billions of people were living,planet and had 5 billions people living there, she can fly around the universes in seconds, she doesn’t need teleportation or telekinesis from move to one place to another like her,she beat Apocalypse, the Phoenix is immortal and indestructible personification of life, death, destruction, rebirth and burning away everything that doesn’t work 😂😂😂
@@emilyemilla Even without the Phoenix she has around 40 powers and abilities and she is nothing without her magic, , she is the only mutant level 5 in Marvel in existence with limitless potential, she still easily got into the head of the primordial God of darkness and Symbiots who was also a Elder God and found out how to defeat him without him even knowing that she was in his head and in the same time she was breaking the connection between Symbiots hive mind and Venom son, she many times bypassed the telepathic shielding of juggernaut and Magneto helms, she beat Nightmare who was a psychotic demon in his realm the same guy who trapped the Eternity,, she knocked out Gladiator, she beat avengers, Galactus, Jean easily lifted mountains that weight millions of pounds, she lifted a structure that was as tall as the world trade centre, she broke out of the Volcano, she survived explosion of the Phoenix and she absorbed it, the Phoenix is capable of destroying any creating universes and destroys and kills everything it. comes to contact with, she survived a blast that could destroy multiverse, she as the Phoenix has the power to create and destroy life, ,stars, Suns, planets, galaxies, universes, realities, black holes, she can eat stars, Suns planets for breakfast all the time killing billions of people, thePhoenix destroyed a fully habitated planet where 5 billions of people were living,planet and had 5 billions people living there, she can fly around the universes in seconds, she doesn’t need teleportation or telekinesis from move to one place to another like her,she beat Apocalypse, the Phoenix is immortal and indestructible personification of life, death, destruction, rebirth and burning away everything that doesn’t work 😂😂😂
@@Superfoczka1 Nice that you know the Pheonix's powers but base Jean barely has any of the powers or feats you listed and comparing base or Pheonix Jean to a depowered version of the Scarlet Witch doesn't prove anything. Wanda also has been able to defeat a primordial god being the one superior to her actually, Cthon who gave her her Chaos Magic. She absorbed him as well as the Dark Hold. She also has a variety of abilities and powers many of which are similar to Jean. What makes her as a magic user interesting though is that her magic is unique since there is no one else but her and Cthon who have access and control over Chaos Magic. Aside from Chaos Magic wielder and Cthon's vessel she is also a Nexus being, she can control probability and control the universal time stream and is a keystone in the Multiverse and crucial to its stability. She also has been able to take on and defeat powerful foes even at a disadvantage, namely Phoenix powered Magik and Namor, the Avengers and the X-Men
First of all Wanda is psychic too. And also we have also witnessed her magical word "What?" Her what is enough to wipeout all the abilities and even gene too. Hence, Wanda wins in any circumstances....🔥
yes she can do a lot of stuffs but she cannot do it at the same time, jean is an powerful empath and telepath if she feel any danger coming towards her she will definitely shut scarlet minds even shes a mile a way, as video suggested that she has the access of million of mutants mind in earth, meaning to say she can literally obliterate the scarlet with a thought
@@ravenroth2497 who said she can't do multiple stuffs together? Did you saw Wanda Vision or did you saw DR. Strange MOM ? She was multitasking there. She was fighting with illuminati, she was haunting Charles in his own mind and killed him, and meanwhile she was reading darkhold and doing dream walk and what else you want? In WandaVision also she was fighting with Agatha, she was playing with her mind and simultaneously she was giving some powers to Agatha and meanwhile she was also casting ruins there! What is the definition of Multitasking tell me?
@@neerajdinesh5014 don't fool yourself
Scarlet witch cannot touch Jean Grey
@@Swahili14 she doesn't needs to touch her! Even i didn't say that! Her piece of words are enough for her!!! 🖕
Being a limitless telepath, there really is no shield Wanda could conjure that could stop her mental assault. Thankfully Jean is pretty nice lady and would probably leave her consciousness intact.
Literally if Jean tries to Harm wanda she ceases to exist.
@@WinniePooh33 no she doesn't wanda has been dead before and jean was perfectly fine wanda life is worthless.
she literally does Wanda nullified her powers in an instance. And don't bring up how good her telepathy is, Wanda created a heaven, self resurrected herself without a cosmic entity, become telepathy goddess of chaos and absorbed cthon and the indestructible true dark hold, wiped mutants from the infinite multiverse, destroy all of the omniverse aka everything in existence and rewrote it again Wanda said no more speed, she's manipulated time, resurrected 16 million mutants. Jean is nothing for Wanda, Wanda would end her.
@@camm8642Jean died every second comic, Wanda has only died twice and the once she resurrected herself.
@@thattransgirlanthonyyyy1082 Jean always came back eventually she died more because she often choose to scarfice herself.....wanda gets killed
Scarlet witch got this one
Yeah she is ultra OP
Can she beat the White Phoenix of the Crown Jean Grey tho.
@Chris Renshaw Jean wins
she cant.. even without Phoenix...Telepathy is OP it takes precedence. Jean is not just any telepath...she just thinks of it... no ritual no hand movements.. just on a whim mind shutdown
@@kingshadow8782 Chaos Magic is Phoenix Force's Kryptonite it was stated in the comics that SW can defeat the Phoenix Force
I think it’s very easy to forget that an omega level telepath isn’t bound by the same logic as an alpha level telepath. Breaking threw mental blocks is child’s play and they can take control almost instantly.
If only wanda would start her fights with probability manipulation instead of a bolt
Did y’all not hear the phoenix was holding her back, Jean can control matter basically change Wanda whole everything, vice versa but still
Jean ceases to exist in the blink of an eye, it's insane how this even is a debate against a omniversal reality warper.
ominversal reality warper and given the ties to the phoenix even if you were right(which you are most certainly NOT) she will be revived@@WinniePooh33
Dead On DanCo. Even Franklin with his ability to Create Universes is VERY MUCH susceptible to mental manipulation.
I think you’re underestimating probability and reality manipulation. In reality wanda can just say no more jean grey or just manipulate the possibilities and reality in her favor and that’s it’s lol there’s a reason writers make wanda just shoot energy blasts for the plot of a story because she’s so OP all it takes is a few words and she wipes out anyone.
I don't get why people always put them in a battle because this is so funny and insulting to the Phoenix Force, if we are talking about Jean and Scarlet Witch, they may be probably equally powerful but if we go beyond and take them with their fullest potential then it's a different story. I also don't get as to why people think that Scarlet Witch in her fullest is able to defeat the Phoenix Force? Like what?!
Let us all confirm and reanalyze the context and comprehend the statements of the scans, because there are so many misconceptions happening like people keep saying “Wanda is immune to the Phoenix Force" that's totally wrong!
Here we see Cyclops touched Wanda it hurt him, this ONLY happened when the Phoenix's raptor is divided in to 5 fractions and each one the host has only 1/5 powers, in this moment Cyclops only had 1/5 power of the Phoenix's raptor, and to think Cyclops is an extremely weak and incompatible host. Him being hurt doesn't mean the force is hurt, the host may get hurt but the Phoenix's raptor will never. Him being hurt doesn't imply Wanda having resistance or immunity to the force
It even took the effort of Avengers and Scarlet Witch combined to defeat Namor with only 1/5 power of the Phoenix Force's raptor and Scarlet Witch completely collapsed.
But after Cyclops gaining all the fractional powers of the Phoenix's raptor, all of them are stomped with no difficulty, he saw them as ants and all Wanda's powers did nothing but made him laugh. Despite all their efforts combined they did not hurt him, it did nothing despite the Phoenix holding back its power.
The reason why they defeated him, it's because Jean, his only love, distracted him and begged him to stop the madness, and Cyclops did let the Phoenix go. Without Jean they would end up being dusts or funny ants.
One biggest misconceptions is the “No More Phoenix" said to be including Wanda's power lol when actually it's only Hope's power, if Wanda is able to banish the Phoenix, she should've banished the Phoenix outside from Cyclops to stop the madness, but she didn't because she can't and she doesn't have the power to, please analyze these statements! Wanda told Hope that she is the only one to be able to let the Phoenix go because she only has the power to do so, Wanda never helped Hope in banishing the Phoenix, she helped only find her will, she only help Hope's hand to help her emotionally to banish the Phoenix from Earth.
The yin yang concept, people have been saying that they are completely the opposites when they aren't, only those who have problems with reading comprehension will believe this thought, here we see this view but this was only Stark's, again ONLY STARK'S / IRON MAN'S theory, he analogized them as like yin yang because Scarlet made an unbreakable spell that decimates mutants and the Phoenix undid it DESPITE IT BEING CALLED UNBREAKABLE. That only happened that time and they are not the embodiment of the concept of Yin Yang because they are not opposites, they were just an epitome to that concept because they exhibited the process of the concept ONLY THAT TIME!
So how can we rely on these people's faulty reasoning then if they claim that Scarlet is more powerful than the Phoenix Force when she is not lmao.
Remember I mentioned about Phoenix's raptor, because the reality is that in each universe the Phoenix in there is just an ASPECT or a RAPTOR of the true Phoenix Force! It's not the true Phoenix Force. Beyonder's even confirmed this idea when they said that “finite beings cannot comprehend infinite beings so they have to dress themselves with a matter for the finite beings to perceive" so this means more that the Phoenix is just using this bird form to communicate and for the finite beings to perceive.
Despite it being just a raptor or an aspect of the True Phoenix Force, it was able to do multiversal feats including Feron putting tower across the omniverse by wielding the power of the Phoenix Force's raptor.
True Form Phoenix force is above Beyonder, the Beyonder blatantly admitted that he is an ant to the Phoenix Force, this the same Beyonder in Secret Wars, known as Pre-Retcon Beyonder, but more matured. Phoenix sees Beyonder as infinite little man which signifies that she is so much more infinitely more powerful than him.
Remember when Rachel as a definitely untrained and significantly has lesser knowledge and experience as a host of the Phoenix Force overwhelmed the Beyonder, not only Rachel is a weak host but the Phoenix she was using is just the red Phoenix, and what she was using was only an avatar of the Phoenix, not the true Phoenix, again as what we mentioned before that every Phoenix in a universe is just an avatar or a raptor or an aspect of the True Phoenix Force. So this Phoenix is by centillions weaker than the true Phoenix Force, how unimaginable! Despite being a weak host and using only the red Phoenix, she was able to hurt and overwhelm the Pre-Retcon Beyonder.
And when the multiversal Watcher who is omniscient stated already that the Phoenix Force is second to the One Above All, the most powerful and supreme being in the Marvel Universe, yet people did not believe this and tries to sound this like a joke when it is directly stated and is completely true since it's also more confirmed in the new issues in Defender's Beyond.
With all these information, and to think that the Phoenix they are facing, and what Scarlet Witch was facing was JUST an AVATAR, A RAPTOR OR AN ASPECT of the True Phoenix Force and yet even the weakest versions of those avatars are able to stomp Scarlet Witch. Scarlet Witch in House of M, which is her strongest version, is able to warp in a multiversal level, and remember that the Phoenix Force is above the Multiverse/Omniverse, MultiEternity is the embodiment of the Omniverse yet he has no access beyond it since it's outside his being.
So again with all these information, there's no way Scarlet Witch will win over the Phoenix Force, or Jean with the Phoenix Force, she has no chance at all. Even if infinite numbers of Scarlet Witches are to be combined, she will be obliterated and stomped instantly and that's the FACT!
Hope this clears your mind and misconception and this should stop all these Jean Grey(Phoenix) vs Scarlet Witch debate
That would be true but the issue is speed. By the time Wanda could "think" to utter those words, jean could already mind wipe her, control her, ripe her mind apart or do whatever she mentally wises.
@@CAhmadDavis92 Okay so how does Jean Grey reaction speed outdo
Wanda outraced Blur who outran the embodiment of Marvel cosmology Eternity, meaning he outran an omnipresent being. Yet Wanda outreacted him.
Scarlet Witch: No more Jean Grey
Phoenix: Not on my watch 🤨
WPOTC: Hold my beer 😴
No. Scarlet witch already set gen justu at start... so jean is only powerful in 1 reality, red witch is powerfull all of them
Scarlet witch manipulates probability, has beaten Jean grey before, and has reality warping on multiversal level, scarlet witch has wiped the phoenix force itself out of existence for some moments, wiped 99.9% of mutants by just words she said while crying
Scarlet witch is very scary and the fact that she beat Jean grey before already solidifies her position in the fight
This fight is to be determined by comics and in the comics she defeated the phoenix force, killed phoenix cyclops and defeated Jean grey. It is a fact not an argument.
Whatever happened in the comics, should also apply here
This is a joke of a fight. A lone ant has a better chance of defeating Godzilla then jean grays chance of beating the scarlet witch
@Owen Keenan Jean>wanda
@@RM-qj8csye no jean powerful without a doubt but wanda slaps her up
This should be a no brainer. If someone can get into your mind and shut you down before you even prep an attack then you’ve got no business going up against them.
And the stans forget how fast Telepathy can be. Jean was also able to immediately react to Nimrod’s attack on Krakoa to save the other mutants from the shockwave in an instant. Jean has proven time and time again how fast she is
Facts …. Jean can get into her mind halfway across the world before they even meet be fr 😂😂
Both are so powerful it could go either way tbh but I see Wanda winning more times than not
I mean one has a astonishing amount of basically just brute force. The other literally rebirthed the multiverse and is omnipotent.
@@Spiceodog Wanda has warped reality across the entire multiverse, and the Phoenix force tries its best to avoid chaos magic for a reason
@jonathan Jean>wanda
Wanda one shot her in Wakanda taking her out the fight completely and one shot several x men characters it’s not even close tbh, it’s way more close with the Phoenix force but Wanda takes this and it isn’t even close.
@@RM-qj8cs “ no more mutants “ go burrrr
Great vid bro
The oldest form of magic in Marvel and some of you are sleeping on it, because of who… Jean Grey? ☠️
"The earliest primordial glint of cosmic understanding and happenstance. The improbable, impossible spark of life flaring up -- that was chaos magic. Chaos magic is neither purely constructive nor destructive -- it's not limited by good or evil. It's the possibility of both, neither and everything in between. A die you cast. A balanced wheel moving between life and death."
And a REMINDER: Wanda and the Phoenix Force are Yin and Yang. AVX #1. Not Jean.
@@connor9255 years of previous phoenix lore such as the purpose of it and its role in the cosmic hiearchy contradict that Ying yang bs
I don't know man. Things have changed a lot, Wanda with her limited powers and emotionally unstable was able to defeat phoenix.
But now Wanda has full control over her powers and now she has absorbed the elder god and dark hold in her spirit.
Literally Wandtards are Very Outdated. HAAHAAHA. The author of the dakrhold Omega Confirmed that SW did not gain any Powers After absorbing CTHON. Hahahaah
How in the world could she defeat the Phoenix? You can't destroy the energy of creation and life itself Without the Phoenix, she wouldn't even be alive.
Girl remember phoenix force is not just a cosmic entity it is the force that gave life's to the marvel universe so I Wanda stans stop being delusional
@@ArJay1688 Wanda's chaos magic was said to be equal to the phoenix in power.
@@AWater22 who said? In the Marvel Universe, it's already stated that the Phoenix force is the second most powerful entity only below TOAA. It didn't specify Chaos Magic anywhere. The Phoenix force gives spark to life, creation and destruction. Chaos magic only alters, it cannot create/destroy. How can you alter anything without the beginning of all things and the PF embodies both the beginning and the end.
Guys, the probability hex alone will shut any known being in MCU
Probably, she wants the phoenix force to become a chicken then bake it into a pie. She can do it using her reality manipulation
Ya'll're kids grew up watching just the movies. You don't know who Jean is and what she can do, she'll rek Scarlet.
People keep forgetting that the Scarlet Witch is an incredible telepath as well. She managed to control a whole town with her mind and has shown to incapacitate the Avengers with her telepathy by showing them their worst nightmares. She also managed to turn a whole army against Hayward, and even killed Professor X telepathically in his mind.
Wanda's telepathy is CRAP compared with Jean Grey telepathy, she needs to TOUCH people to mind control them, while Jean can sense her "prey" miles away and create a whole reality from affar...
Jean would defeat Wanda longer before she even realize Jean is around.
@@efxnews4776 since when does Wanda need to touch her “prey”? She can mind control them from miles away
@@efxnews4776 BIASED. Wanda pops COPE. Also wanda was stated to be a multiversal being in the mcu, WHATS JEAN? FODDER THAT WANDA STEPS ON
@@emilyemilla Yeah, yeah... ever herd of the White Phoenix of the Crown? Jean Grey wouldn't do a sloppy "nO mOrE mUtAnTs", Jean Grey would prevent Wanda to even being BORN!
@@efxnews4776 "WhITe PhoEnIx oF ThE CroWn", I heard of WPOTC and thats not jean, thats all the phoenix just with jeans concouisness, Also again wanda has immunity to reality warping dumbass twink. And funny thing is, Eldergoddess wanda could easily warp WPOTC out of reality as right now wandas 10x more powerful and mentally stable then she was during house of madness / magneto / magnum. Try again
Jean loses! When Jean enter the mind of SW and realises how messed up it is, Jean has a breakdown and goes insane! SW wins!
Then you wake up from your dream
That is actually a great idea. Cause adult Jean in mcu can't handle hearing voices like a weakling 😂😂
Proficiency. They can both turn off each other's x-gene. Wanda ended all mutants by saying "no more mutants", while Jean can manipulate anything at any level (micro or macro). I think, in an actual fight it would come down to how fast they attack each other and how well they can shield themselves. Psychic and magic should be able to top pretty much everything else like cosmic, science, tech, muscle, and maybe even deities. But it comes down to proficiency.
wandas a witch, no x-gene for jean to turn off
She only erred the mutants powers and she couldn’t do it to the most powerful mutants including Jean and Even without the Phoenix she has around 40 powers and abilities and she is nothing without her magic, , she is the only mutant level 5 in Marvel in existence with limitless potential, she still easily got into the head of the primordial God of darkness and Symbiots who was also a Elder God and found out how to defeat him without him even knowing that she was in his head and in the same time she was breaking the connection between Symbiots hive mind and Venom son, she many times bypassed the telepathic shielding of juggernaut and Magneto helms, she beat Nightmare who was a psychotic demon in his realm the same guy who trapped the Eternity,, she knocked out Gladiator, she beat avengers, Galactus, Jean easily lifted mountains that weight millions of pounds, she lifted a structure that was as tall as the world trade centre, she broke out of the Volcano, she survived explosion of the Phoenix and she absorbed it, the Phoenix is capable of destroying any creating universes and destroys and kills everything it. comes to contact with, she survived a blast that could destroy multiverse, she as the Phoenix has the power to create and destroy life, ,stars, Suns, planets, galaxies, universes, realities, black holes, she can eat stars, Suns planets for breakfast all the time killing billions of people, thePhoenix destroyed a fully habitated planet where 5 billions of people were living,planet and had 5 billions people living there, she can fly around the universes in seconds, she doesn’t need teleportation or telekinesis from move to one place to another like her,she beat the first mutant Apocalypse who had thousands of years of fighting experience,the Phoenix is immortal and indestructible personification of life, death, destruction, rebirth and burning away everything that doesn’t work 😂😂😂
Tbh, Wanda vs Jean at their full potentials would never end, they're equal to each other. The multiverse would be incinerated and destroyed in their fight.
Jean with the Phoenix is immortal...Wanda is such a powerful witch but not immortal. Immortality prevails.
If she has the Phoenix then it's over
Chaos Magic is Phoenix's Kryptonite LOL, Wanda has resisted it all times causing pains to the Phoenix Force
If Jean enters the white phoenix of the crown then it's bye bye to Wanda
@@twilight6779 wrong! LOL, Chaos Magic is Phoenix' Kryptonite , TOAA even feared it, what makes you think WPOTC can do something? LOL
I hate this analysis because it leaves no room for nuance. Scarlet knows who Jean is. They have even tangled before. Which means she has either witnessed what Jean is capable of or at least heard about it. Given that she knows Jean can probably oneshot her do you really think she will fight the exact same way she usually does? I guess it's possible, but is it likely? Doubt it. Jean has a chance here but in order to win I think she would need to get her attack off before Wanda can react. Otherwise Wanda can use probability magic to make Jean's attack fail and at that point she just has too many hacks.
they are friends , Wanda is like a little sister to Jean if you know about comics you would recognize that Wand doesnt have a chance against Jean
@@livimarmarchan1359 seriously? I must not know comics to think Wanda has a chance? Literally every time they have gone head to head in comics Wanda has won. So perhaps you have never read a comic in your life making an asinine comment like that. Not even going to waste my time arguing with you.
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Who wins and why
Once Jean grey goes into scarlet witch's mind it's over
This is really interesting. I'd give Wanda the edge here simply because base Wanda has absorbed Chthon whereas current Jean has no connections to PF (tho some stories are somewhat hinting of a reunion)
I'm intrigued to see a video of you doing a video of Zatanna Vs Wanda, since both of them are often compared. Personally think Zatanna wins but I'd like to see your opinion
So they had to nerf Jean and buff Wanda? I thought it's already stated that they had to be inseparable cuz they're both 'sheet from the same cloth' . One needs the other to fully feel complete. They're contradicting themselves.
The numerous times Jean rejected the Phoenix, it's either it got broken to pieces, incinerated her but forced the PF again to resurrect her, or got berserk/lost.
Okay idk why my comment is gone but you can just search the whole title online
@@jayjade6003 uhmm.. yup I understand that but it's just becoming frustrating that they had to rewrite the connection between the PF and her. It's becoming so tiring.
@@ArJay1688 it's actually quite good imo. For so long, we've seen Jean rely alot on PF to amp her status as one of Marvel's strongest mutant to a point where the writers forgot to develop her telepathic abilities as just that. Nowadays, we've seen feats of Jean Grey beating the likes of Celestials and the symbiote God without the need for PF
Wait, i read that she didn't exactly absorb Chthon but just contained him inside her body which makes her even weaker.
Awesome battle between these two female powerhouses.
Phoenix force will win because she can reborn after death
But scarlet witch cannot reborn after death
Scarlet witch is just a second best period
This is far from true wanda wins as Wanda has one shot Jean in Wakanda already just by overpowering her and several x men character on multiple occasions at once, whether it is to put them to sleep or just with her sheer power. The fact that this fight shouldn’t even be close is crazy
Exactly. I see how jean can win but i still see wanda winning more than her
@@tinasagapolu-pouhq9366 precisely and there is no doubt about that
Jean that time didn't mastered her powers yet while Wanda masters it already if jean Masters her power She wins.
@@Forgic07 it was a well mature team of x men, everyone knows the scarlet witch wins here, there isn’t no great that shows jean winning, all those feats are with the Phoenix, Wanda has one shot Emma frost and resist telepathic attacks from both professor x and Emma frost. This isn’t even closer or hard and y’all know this, this is just another one-shot and if any of Jean’s feat you think is better lemme know
remember when an angry teenage jean grey threw around the avengers like a bunch of ragdolls..? she was only stopped because of her team calming her down..
For once Danco took account of their fight records and proven attack patterns and habits. 😮😂
My head cannon is that this fight would end the world and different realities. The Phoenix energy is immense and universe destroying in itself, The Chaos energy that the Scarlet Witch works with can constantly rewrite that dying multiverse. Heroes, mutants etc would unite to bring down this duo resulting in catastrophe. After the phoenix and the witch have had their pissing contest destroying the world and friends/foes alike multiple times over , they would have to agree to disagree with eachother or continue to be the snake eating its own tail in a cataclysmic cycle of destruction and birth. Neither would win but they both would lose 🤷 😂
Team Jean... The witch's a punk. There's only one redhead..
Wanda isn't a red head
Jean Grey ❤