Whether it is The Shadows or The Ventures doesn't matter to me . Both the groups gave me so much joy when I was growing up. I get a lump in my throat listening to both of them.
one of the few comments here based in reality and respect for artists , this sick pissing contest is rotten to the core , it demeans the greatness of art and these great musicians . you're not american or british are you ?
I must agree that some of the first guitar instrumentals I learned were by the Ventures, 'Walk Don't Run' and The Shadows too....So the comparison in THIS instance is 'apples and oranges' to me.
@@bobsaturday4273 EXACTLY what I was thinking.....he's either a "Limey" or a "Torry" for sure. Very slanted video. Can't beat this by the Ventures..... ruclips.net/video/3bKG0p6Tv9Q/видео.html
@@USCG.Brennan actually you're right , no , you can't beat em , they consistantly had the right tunes at the right times . they reflectefd the times perfectly , as the truly great musicians do . and they rolled with the times comin up with great new stuff over the years , not just regrinding their past glories . Hawaii 5-0 proved their real metal as a group who could really rock an orchestra piece
@@USCG.Brennan but when they did regrind a tune they did it with style : ruclips.net/video/aQSPivbWwuY/видео.html ruclips.net/video/5Jkhs_1FBcE/видео.html
Probably one of the. Ventures last performances. As to who was the best, both were recorded under different circumstances in different acoustic environments with different sound engineers. The only way to of compared them honestly would have been to put them on the same stage. In reality both bands held the other in high esteem and both have earned the respect for their contributions to the music industry
I think Noke lost some of his hearing . He didnt try to do much with his tone . His guitar didnt have a good tone either and absolutely no added effects . Bob Bogle always was good at setting a good tone with good effects .
I think the Ventures version is styled more after Jorgen Ingman's version, the Danish guitarist who had a hit with it in the USA. The song was written by Jerry Lordan and offered to British guitarist Bert Weedon, who recorded it on an album. The Shadows recorded it in 1960 and had a massive worldwide hit with it, except for America. The Shadows never made it in the USA because of the Ingman version. Pity, because they had so many more hits after Apache that were also written by Jerry Lordan, but America missed out on those songs. The US was also last getting the Beatles, they didn't make it over here until 1964 with "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" while they had become superstars worldwide starting in England in 1962 with "Love Me Do". Anyway, The Shadows are my favorite but I do also really like the Ventures, especially their early songs featuring Bob Bogle on lead guitar. I had the opportunity to meet him when my band was playing in Lake Tahoe, NV back in 1973 - he came to see our show and we played a medley of their tunes for him - "Walk, Don't Run" "Perfidia" and "Blue Moon" - he was a really nice guy. I also met former Shadows bassist John Rostill , when he was playing with Tom Jones at the Sahara Tahoe in 1973 - he was also a very nice guy, sad that he was electrocuted in his studio later that year, RIP - Also Bob Bogle passed in 2009, RIP
You are right about the original recording by Jorgen Ingman. The Ventures version is much closer to the original. If both groups played a concert on the same stage at the same time, the Venture's guitar work is more intricate and more advanced!
When I play it, The Shadows arrangement is simple and easy. Arranging The Ventures is difficult. But, in terms of sound, the Shadows are more preferred.
Not a fair comparison Nokie is a surf rock specialist and his notes and arrangements favour surf rock.Hank is playing pop rock style.Both are beautifully played.
The idiot who uploaded this was clearly trying to make the Ventures look bad. I'm from the Tacoma WA area--where the Ventures are from--and I saw the Ventures play a festival about the time when this video was shot, and they looked old and broken down--they were clearly not at their best.
Los shadows tocan maravilloso!!!! Hermoso!!!! .lindoooo...❤❤❤❤ los ventures son Maestros!! Magnificos!!! Maravillosos!!! Ambos tienen un talento de la musica maravilloso....la guitarra primera de los shadows...tiene mucha cústica....pero realmente maravillosoooooo...estoy emocionada...😭😢 que hermosa música....los amo!!! Pero....antiguedad es clase..... ventures ventures y todos los grupos q toquen sus canciones gracias!!!!!!❤💋❤💋❤💋❤👏👏👏👏👏👏
I love the Shadows playing Apache and a host of other songs and live, they were always immaculate. The problem with the Ventures seems to be that they are not always up to scratch and there are some bad vids out on youtube although some superior concerts are starting to appear. However it is unfair to compare Hank Marvin and Nokie Edwards as guitarists. I have heard both do brilliant work and would be like saying who is the best painter out of Dali and Picasso. The problem for Nokie is that the Shadows recorded Apache years earlier and made it their own. Nokie should probably stuck closer to the original work but for whatever reason decided to change the arrangement so fundamentally that it was like trying to re-invent the wheel. This has resulted in an inferior version. It is an unfair exercise to judge Nokie and the Ventures on this song. A fairer competition might be to go like for like. Their best vs the Shadows best. And the winner is..... the audience.
This video is lots of fun and I really like both versions. The Ventures (in my humble opinion) made better choices of instruments and sound systems, allowing them to add more variety and interest to the musical phrases. Their version is very subtle. The Stratocaster is a huge sound guitar more suitable for Jimi Hendrix and Dick Dale. But you can see that the audiences for both bands were having a great time.
They are both good. Nokie and Hank do a wonderful job. Each is a bit different. Hank uses his signature echo and Nokie has more of a country feel. I am just glad do recorded the songs with the Ventures and the Shadows.
Two very different quality recordings.... but whoever arranged the Ventures cover should be sent back to kindergarten.... The Shadows version is the one I grew up with - and as far as I can remember, this version and the 60’s version are identical - except the modern sound quality is stunning!
I grew up listening to the Ventures in the very early 1960’s. My brother played their music Religiously. He even bought a brand new Gretch Solid Body Chet Atkins Electric Guitar it’s one of the few good memories I have of him. RIP Brother
Before I even watched this I knew The Shadows had this in the bag! Plus they’ve got the moves and showmanship to back them up!!! The Ventures look like they’ve just been told off by the head master!
@@xmandlt I'm from the Tacoma WA area--where the Ventures are from--and I saw them play an outside show around ten years ago, and the band looked like guys from an old folks home (except for the drummer, who is the son of a former member). It was stupid of the video uploader to compare the two bands as they are in extreme old age--show what they were doing fifty years ago.
Exactly ! One can have a preference , Fine . But Finding one ‘better’ than the other is simply ridiculous . Both are great in very different ways . If you can’t tell the difference in the circumstance of these two shows , I wonder how much you could understand about music in general .
It depends on what you mean by the original Ventures. They started out as a duo with Don Wilson and Bob Bogle called The Versatones but by the time they recorded Nokie had been added as a bass player. He soon took over most of the lead guitar duties as he was much more proficient than either Bob or Don, a fact most of us weren't aware of till the mid-60s. That's Bob playing the lead on "Walk, Don't Run" and many other early songs though.
I love both the Ventures and the Shadows. The Ventures Pipeline with Peter Frampton and Wipeout with Max Weinberg show them at their best. I love Hank Marvin's tone. He uses a lot of reverb which creates a dreamy tone. We live in an age where every performance by a band has the possibility of ending up on a social media site. I played Pipeline at the Prince Edward Island Guitar Festival and it got a great reaction. I had a young kid who's won several talent shows back me up on rhythm guitar.
The Shadows win hands down. I like The Ventures too.....but....no group can beat The Shadows ..... they are the very best guitar instrumental group in history.
Taking a perfect sound recording of one band at their best & putting up against less perfectly recorded version from another band on their very last legs proves nothing. They were both excellent bands in their heydays. I love them both.
It seems many people prefer The Shadows over the Ventures here but we should not forget that the Ventures sold much more records then the Shadows and one must agree that both bands have their greatness though the Ventures sound and style is more rocky and contemporary with a strong percussion.So it is difficult to say who is better though personally I prefer the Ventures.
The Shadows had 69 chart entries, 49 of them top 10 including 8 no 1s they also had vocal hits and no1 hits that they wrote for Cliff Richards The Ventures never had a no 1 only two minor hits
Johnny Rosenberg Whenever you have two people performing the same thing, or something very similar, they are bound to be compared. I don't know why you find that such a difficult concept to grasp. You may not want to call it competition, but a comparison is bound to be made in a situation like this; indeed the entire presentation invites it, and if you cannot see that then you must be the only person on You Tube who can't.
Blues fan I just can't see why anyone would care. Just listen to the version that you prefer and don't bother other people with it. How hard can it be?
Johnny Rosenberg And you know which version you prefer...how? By only listening to one version? You've out-argued yourself here, because by admitting that a person can prefer one version, you've just destroyed your previous argument that it's all just music. Even someone who has a preference has made a comparison and a judgement. One version is preferred, or "wins", to use my original word. Thank you.
Blues fan I have heard quite a few versions, but yes, maybe I prefer one of them over the others (actually I prefer Shadows' version, but I don't like Apache very much anyway, I've just heard it and played it too many times - my own version is by the way something like a hybrid between the two versions, but I rarely play it at all these days), but what I was trying to say (but obviously failed, maybe because my native language is not English) was not that you only should listen to one version and then prefer that one. I was more trying to say that instead of arguing about what version is, whatever it is, better, worse, heavier, greener, just listen to what you want to listen to. If someone listens to something else, it's their problem. Or luck. People like different things, why arguing about it?
Things may have been different if The Shadows manager had got their version of Apache out in the USA first then that would have been the hit that everyone followed. I know both Nokie and Hank and both are brilliant guitarists but it was Hank's version of Apache that inspired me to play the electric guitar.
This is all a matter of taste. No one is wrong because they dont share the same taste as another person. The Ventures are my favorite instrumental band, but for my taste, the Shadows really knocked this one outa the park!!!
The Ventures did play some originals like "Journey to the Stars", "Driving Guitars", Kyoto No Koi", "2000 Pound Bee", "Surf Rider", "Mariner No. 4", "Go-Go Dancer" & others
The book "Walk Don't Run--the Story of the Ventures" by Del Halterman. Obtainable online through Ventures fan club. At end has "studio musician session notes" listing musicians present, which studio, which cut, notes etc. I believe the "wrecking crew" in Los Angeles has played on many Ventures recordings.
No comparison,Shads much nicer sound much smoother playing.The Shadows blow away the Ventures in every category,their records are all superior.I do love Jorgan Ingman's version as well.
The Shadows very easily win this comparison. I like The Ventures too.....but....no group can beat The Shadows ..... they are the very best guitar instrumental group in history. The Shadows nailed playing Apache...Hank Marvin is just superb. To be fair...The Ventures here were not their best...they usually are much better performers ..... a good possibility is their age...this was one of their last performance of Apache.
When I was a security guard I used to shout at the kids Hey walk don't Run!...was an instrumental hit for the ventures who though somewhat stylistically similar to the shadows never enjoyed their success over here though would become huge in japan
Well, Shadows are playing their own version, The Ventures are playing Jørgen Ingmann's version. So it would probably be more correct to compare Jørgen Ingmann with The Shadows in this case. When I want to listen to The Ventures, ”Apache” is certainly not the first title that comes to my mind…
+Johnny Rosenberg Hello Johnny you have made some valid comments on my video but you are probably not aware that Jorgen Ingmann must have copied The Shadows version in the first place because Hank Marvin wrote the intro that is used on these recordings. If you listen to Bert Weedon's version which was recorded but not released before The Shadows Version it does not have Hank's intro
+fincaman2 Well, you are right, I didn't know that Hank did his own intro. I've never heard Jerry Lordan playing the song. Maybe even Jørgen Ingmann didn't know that? I don't know. Anyway, they are still two very different versions while The Ventures' version sounds too much like Ingmann's version so be considered ”a third version”, at least in my opinion. Even if Ingmann copied the intro (even though he played it one octave higher), he surely had a quite different approach for the rest of the song. I don't think I've heard Bert Weedon's version, I guess mostly because I don't like his style much (someone gave me a Bert Weedon CD many years ago and I listened to it once, but I didn't like it). I know, that's only a matter of taste and nothing more. Fortunately, everybody doesn't have to like the same type of music… :P
Yea, kind of like a 72 year old boxer smoking a 74 year old boxer--doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. We know what the two bands sounded like in their primes. Fuck the Shadows.
For comparison we need to take the best interpretations from both... Here ventures has underperformed... And the comparison itself may not be for who is better but for how a same tune can be played in two different styles
I'd heard only the Ventures growing up, and they were incredible, but the Shadows are leagues ahead in this comparison, without a doubt. And I have to wonder if their other songs outdid anything by the Ventures. So many guitarists truly idolize Hank Marvin. Of course, both groups are pretty old now, so it's not really fair to compare them at that stage since the Ventures' guitarist isn't at his best. Hank Marvin still plays beautifully, though. I wish the comparison played the 1960's versions.
I think Shadows is the best instrumental group on guitar in the music history period, I love Ventures , Les Fantomes , and all others and appreciate for their work and giving taste of different music style ....
When I play it, The Shadows arrangement is simple and easy. Arranging The Ventures is difficult. But, in terms of sound, the Shadows are more preferred.
Caravan by Nokie Edwards on an album "Bobby Vee Meets the Ventures " (circa 1961-2 by Liberty Records?) shows his talent. Its one of two solo instrumentals on the record. He plays a Fender through a Fender amp. Every note is clear. it's a very great recording. Guitarist appreciate it. Alabama Jubilee and I Got a Woman showcase his ability and I believe he plays all three of these tunes as encores to show his skill.
THESE ARE BOTH GREAT BANDS, BUT THIS IS NOT A FAIR COMPARISON. NOKIE EDWARDS (VENTURES LEAD GUITARIST) IS OBVIOUSLY STRUGGLING HERE BECAUSE OF AGE MOST LIKELY. HE IS ONE OF THE GREATEST GUITARISTS THAT HAS EVER LIVED AND IS KNOWN FOR HIS SMOOTH AND FANCY GUITAR ABILITES. THE SHADOWS SOUND GREAT HERE, AND I LIKE THE SHADOWS VERY MUCH, BUT.... I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A BETTER VENTURES VERSION OF 'APACHE' PUT HERE INSTEAD OF THE ONE THAT WAS SELECTED.
There is only 4 years difference in their ages on this video. If you can find a better version of The Ventures Playing Apache live I will do another video
A from what I've read, The Ventures didn't like how record labels would turn out albums with "The Ventures" label slapped on them but on which The Ventures weren't playing but rather all session musicians
I don' think anyone here gets it. It's not a comparison to see who is better or worse. Just a comparison of two different styles. Neither is better, neither is worse, just different and anyone who has ever laid a finger on a fret and picked a string will tell you that Nokie and Hank are two of the best that have ever played and both are equally amazing!!
The recording quality of the Shadows clip was better. Don't let that adfect your judgement though. The Ventures add beautiful touches throughout that make it so much better.
I like both The Shadows and The Ventures. Have had the pleasure to meet The Ventures. Interesting how both video's by the Ventures on here though are both low quality. Especially the Ghost Riders audience recording. If you really want to compare equally, go the Ventures website and purchase one of their professionally shot concerts. I have quite a few. Everybody has a preference, I'm prone to the Ventures, but also really like the Shadows, but to see people swearing back and forth at each other, just shows how ignorant some people really are. I'd love to see them both.
I checked, and I have and listened to the DVD of The Ventures playing Apache, and for some reason the sound on youtube here seems a lot thinner than on the actual DVD, almost like it's been doctored with. Oh well, don't know what happened here. Now I have to find me a copy of The Shadows DVD, and hopefully CD of this concert.
Also, Nokie's around 80 years old here. How old is Hank? I learned to play guitar with The Ventures, saw them 4 years ago, Nokie was 82 then, and still amazing.
Ventures have always sounded thin and tinny compared to the rich sounds of The Shadows right back to the original 60's recordings. Being 71 I have lived with both bands from their earliest days to the present and The Shadows have always outshone The Ventures in tone and style.
There has never been a bigger fan of Nokie's than I am. However, for about the last ten years of Nokie's career, he basically was phoning it in at concerts. Granted, his health was not the best but his heart just was not into it any more. Regardless, in his prime, Nokie was top drawer!
@fincaman2 As explained above, I base my opinion of both bands from listening to their albums and watching their videos not from one song. Unlike the Ventures, Apache is one of the few uptempo songs played by the Shadows.
Please don't ask me to choose! I am a huge Ventures fan, but Hank Marvin OWNS this song and always will. A version of this by the Shadows with acoustic rhythm guitar is out here on RUclips somewhere. It really adds something to the bridge. Also check it out.
I love both bands but I think The Shadows kept with their original sound more consistently than The Ventures. One reason is The Ventures kept on changing guitars over the years and The Shadows didn't. Hank Marvin stuck to Fender Strats and an occassional Burns guitar. Also Hank Marvin's playing remained constant even into old age. The Shadows version sounds more mysterious or spy music like.
The Issues over here are not of live performance of the musicians but of sound recording /engineering. Things can also be manipulated. In fact, considering the last part of this video edit, I think the presenter of this clip is bias. Thus, no judgement can be passed on the performance of the artists from both the groups.
I've always disliked this song for some reason. It sounds great when the shadows do it, but it just bores the hell out of me no matter how good or bad it's played. The ventures are definitely feeling the effects of old age after 50 years. It can be said that while I think Nokie Edwards in his prime was a superior guitarist to Hank, It appears time has yet to catch up with Hank as it has with Nokie. But then again, The Ventures cut way more records and did way more tours than the shadows ever did
Apache is one of the only songs both bands perform. Not sure if the Shadows ever did Pipeline or Wipeout. They must have at some point. Even in 2012, Pipeline always gets people's attention. I'd love to start a surf band but opportunities to play in 2012 may be limited. I may do it anyway simply for the love of this music and how playing it will elevate any guitar player's skills. I do live on an island (PEI, Canada) so who knows.
For me I love the Shadows.... Bruce play chords louder....and very clear...... most of all the Shadows was the first group who set 3 Guitars and 1 Drum to the world known...
The problem is that if you don't have English TV you won't have seen Hank's versatility He pops up every now and then and often plays in different styles Chuck Berry etc. The other problem is that the fans want to hear the famous "Hank Marvin sound" which no one on the planet has ever got close to, he is single handedly responsible for the popularity of the Stratocaster certainly outside America
As you know in 50's and early sixties British acts did not make it westward across the pond. Thus Americans were not exposed to the Shadows and Hank Marvin and Cliff Richards and such. I will concede that Apache, Atlantis, and Wonderful Land --written by Jerry Lordan and as performed by the Shadows were deserving of exposure stateside. The Tornadoes with Telstar broke the British instrumental "embargo", and of course the Beatles opened the floodgates. Sadly, not all artist got their due.
About the better guitarist--the Ventures, Shadows, Jorgen Ingmann. Nokie Edwards, the bass player of the original ventures (Bob Bogle-Don Wilson) is the better guitarist by far. Nokie Edwards can do everything Bob, Hank or Jorgen can do:but they cannot do what Nokie does. Jorgen would be my 2nd choice. Hank is creative and gives top notch concerts. Bob has a pleasant tremelo bar sound. But Nokie Edwards is by far the best guitarist.
You're using the Ventures 50th anniversary copy.... Nokie was over 70 years old!!... No wonder he made some mistakes. In the States we all learned the version done by the Ventures and most like it better than the Shadows' version. This comparison doesn't really answer the 'Who's Best?' question. I personally like both version, but lean to the Ventures. Personal preference
The Shadows are more traditional more like the original and the Ventures take a song and redo it somewhat and make it their own, to say nothing of the fact that the lead guitar players from both groups having an entirely 180 degree style from each other to begin with good music is good music I like both groups
I can honestly say that I have never heard Don Wilson make a mistake while playing rhythm. Well...I might think of one question I would like to ask him. On an early "Sleepwalk" I think I hear the rhythm playing an F major chord instead of the F minor like Santo and Johnny do it. No really, he's good. He adds to the sound that fills a lot. Nokie when he plays bass adds a lot to the early Venture's sound as well.
Hank Marvin & The Shadows clearly out did the Ventures cover of this, in this instance. When growing up in the SF Bay Area the version that got all the airplay was Jorgen Ingram's version of 'Apache'. I've always preferred THAT version of the song, probably because it was the one I heard most often. The version that I play is a combination of both versions.
ahaha and pigs can drop bombs from the sky, this is a video from shadows lover, this sound comparrison doesn't make sense...ventures are rhythmically and technically way out from their league, who says otherwise see less...and that is de facto
Well I really enjoyed the comparison. I play both Ventures, and the Shadows on guitar. The Ventures are huge here in Canada, and even bigger in Japan. Last 10 years or so I have preferred playing the Shadows much more. There are many similar songs that you could compare such as Perfida, just to name one, but having said that I once again perfer the Shadows version. Thanks for the posting, and cheers from Vancouver BC
From what is presented here, the Shadows is a better sounding recording to my ears. But, the comparison is a little unfair because I've been listening to The Shadows Apache since 1960 and this is the first time I have heard The Ventures. All that must cloud any objectivity.
La versión de The Shadows es mejor, por lejos, por mayor profundidad de volumen del sonido. Pero, nunca he escuchado una rendición de Walk don´t Run de The Shadows.
![THE VENTURES - 45th Anniversary Live [1/9]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yjLFMCj82PI/mqdefault.jpg)
Whether it is The Shadows or The Ventures doesn't matter to me . Both the groups gave me so much joy when I was growing up. I get a lump in my throat listening to both of them.
one of the few comments here based in reality and respect for artists , this sick pissing contest is rotten to the core , it demeans the greatness of art and these great musicians . you're not american or british are you ?
I must agree that some of the first guitar instrumentals I learned were by the Ventures, 'Walk Don't Run' and The Shadows too....So the comparison in THIS instance is 'apples and oranges' to me.
@@bobsaturday4273 EXACTLY what I was thinking.....he's either a "Limey" or a "Torry" for sure. Very slanted video.
Can't beat this by the Ventures..... ruclips.net/video/3bKG0p6Tv9Q/видео.html
@@USCG.Brennan actually you're right , no , you can't beat em , they consistantly had the right tunes at the right times . they reflectefd the times perfectly , as the truly great musicians do . and they rolled with the times comin up with great new stuff over the years , not just regrinding their past glories . Hawaii 5-0 proved their real metal as a group who could really rock an orchestra piece
@@USCG.Brennan but when they did regrind a tune they did it with style :
ruclips.net/video/aQSPivbWwuY/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/5Jkhs_1FBcE/видео.html
Both stiles are unique. They play in their own likes. The two bands are fantastic, I bow before them 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Probably one of the. Ventures last performances. As to who was the best, both were recorded under different circumstances in different acoustic environments with different sound engineers. The only way to of compared them honestly would have been to put them on the same stage. In reality both bands held the other in high esteem and both have earned the respect for their contributions to the music industry
and all involved would be appalled at such trivial superfluous comparisons
Exactly.....I'm thinking the author of this video "comparison" is just another Brit with an ax to grind....nothing more.
I think Noke lost some of his hearing . He didnt try to do much with his tone . His guitar didnt have a good tone either and absolutely no added effects . Bob Bogle always was good at setting a good tone with good effects .
I think the Ventures version is styled more after Jorgen Ingman's version, the Danish guitarist who had a hit with it in the USA. The song was written by Jerry Lordan and offered to British guitarist Bert Weedon, who recorded it on an album. The Shadows recorded it in 1960 and had a massive worldwide hit with it, except for America. The Shadows never made it in the USA because of the Ingman version. Pity, because they had so many more hits after Apache that were also written by Jerry Lordan, but America missed out on those songs. The US was also last getting the Beatles, they didn't make it over here until 1964 with "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" while they had become superstars worldwide starting in England in 1962 with "Love Me Do".
Anyway, The Shadows are my favorite but I do also really like the Ventures, especially their early songs featuring Bob Bogle on lead guitar. I had the opportunity to meet him when my band was playing in Lake Tahoe, NV back in 1973 - he came to see our show and we played a medley of their tunes for him - "Walk, Don't Run" "Perfidia" and "Blue Moon" - he was a really nice guy. I also met former Shadows bassist John Rostill , when he was playing with Tom Jones at the Sahara Tahoe in 1973 - he was also a very nice guy, sad that he was electrocuted in his studio later that year, RIP - Also Bob Bogle passed in 2009, RIP
You are right about the original recording by Jorgen Ingman. The Ventures version is much closer to the original.
If both groups played a concert on the same stage at the same time, the Venture's guitar work is more intricate and more advanced!
Los Ventures son muy buenos pero "Apache" es un clásico de The Shadows y nadie más la interpreta tan magistralmente como ellos.
I love them both, but Hank Marvin's tone is other- worldly!
I love the Ventures, grew up with their music... however, The Shadows tear this up!
I admired both ventures and shadows they are both legend.❤💋
When I play it, The Shadows arrangement is simple and easy. Arranging The Ventures is difficult. But, in terms of sound, the Shadows are more preferred.
Not a fair comparison Nokie is a surf rock specialist and his notes and arrangements favour surf rock.Hank is playing pop rock style.Both are beautifully played.
The idiot who uploaded this was clearly trying to make the Ventures look bad. I'm from the Tacoma WA area--where the Ventures are from--and I saw the Ventures play a festival about the time when this video was shot, and they looked old and broken down--they were clearly not at their best.
Los shadows tocan maravilloso!!!! Hermoso!!!! .lindoooo...❤❤❤❤ los ventures son Maestros!! Magnificos!!! Maravillosos!!! Ambos tienen un talento de la musica maravilloso....la guitarra primera de los shadows...tiene mucha cústica....pero realmente maravillosoooooo...estoy emocionada...😭😢 que hermosa música....los amo!!! Pero....antiguedad es clase..... ventures ventures y todos los grupos q toquen sus canciones gracias!!!!!!❤💋❤💋❤💋❤👏👏👏👏👏👏
The Shadows are utter perfectionists and nail every tune they play 💯🎸🎸🎸
I love the Shadows playing Apache and a host of other songs and live, they were always immaculate. The problem with the Ventures seems to be that they are not always up to scratch and there are some bad vids out on youtube although some superior concerts are starting to appear. However it is unfair to compare Hank Marvin and Nokie Edwards as guitarists. I have heard both do brilliant work and would be like saying who is the best painter out of Dali and Picasso. The problem for Nokie is that the Shadows recorded Apache years earlier and made it their own. Nokie should probably stuck closer to the original work but for whatever reason decided to change the arrangement so fundamentally that it was like trying to re-invent the wheel. This has resulted in an inferior version. It is an unfair exercise to judge Nokie and the Ventures on this song. A fairer competition might be to go like for like. Their best vs the Shadows best. And the winner is..... the audience.
This video is lots of fun and I really like both versions. The Ventures (in my humble opinion) made better choices of instruments and sound systems, allowing them to add more variety and interest to the musical phrases. Their version is very subtle. The Stratocaster is a huge sound guitar more suitable for Jimi Hendrix and Dick Dale. But you can see that the audiences for both bands were having a great time.
They are both good. Nokie and Hank do a wonderful job. Each is a bit different. Hank uses his signature echo and Nokie has more of a country feel. I am just glad do recorded the songs with the Ventures and the Shadows.
Two very different quality recordings.... but whoever arranged the Ventures cover should be sent back to kindergarten.... The Shadows version is the one I grew up with - and as far as I can remember, this version and the 60’s version are identical - except the modern sound quality is stunning!
No comparison. The Shadows were great in every respect.
I grew up listening to the Ventures in the very early 1960’s. My brother played their music Religiously. He even bought a brand new Gretch Solid Body Chet Atkins Electric Guitar it’s one of the few good memories I have of him. RIP Brother
Before I even watched this I knew The Shadows had this in the bag! Plus they’ve got the moves and showmanship to back them up!!! The Ventures look like they’ve just been told off by the head master!
The Shadows version is more aggressive. Having a driving rhythm guitar helps a lot. It's simpler but more fun to listen to. I vote Shadows.
No Comparison - The Shadows - Hank Marvin. The Best !!!
Grande ben detto
I agree.
The Ventures & The Shadows or The Shadows & The Ventues!!!
Both are great bands.
Greetings from Mexico City.
Thanks for your videos.
Joaquín Gutiérrez Rosales s
very nice outlook , unlike creepy americans who want war in everything
The Shadows version is far better with the held notes rather Nokie's sliding. The sound system doesn't make the difference, the playing does.
Utter bullshit. The Shadows were awash in reverb. The Ventures sounded like they didn't give a shit about trying to impress.
@@xmandlt
I'm from the Tacoma WA area--where the Ventures are from--and I saw them play an outside show around ten years ago, and the band looked like guys from an old folks home (except for the drummer, who is the son of a former member). It was stupid of the video uploader to compare the two bands as they are in extreme old age--show what they were doing fifty years ago.
Exactly ! One can have a preference , Fine . But Finding one ‘better’ than the other is simply ridiculous . Both are great in very different ways . If you can’t tell the difference in the circumstance of these two shows , I wonder how much you could understand about music in general .
It depends on what you mean by the original Ventures. They started out as a duo with Don Wilson and Bob Bogle called The Versatones but by the time they recorded Nokie had been added as a bass player. He soon took over most of the lead guitar duties as he was much more proficient than either Bob or Don, a fact most of us weren't aware of till the mid-60s. That's Bob playing the lead on "Walk, Don't Run" and many other early songs though.
I love both the Ventures and the Shadows. The Ventures Pipeline with Peter Frampton and Wipeout with Max Weinberg show them at their best. I love Hank Marvin's tone. He uses a lot of reverb which creates a dreamy tone. We live in an age where every performance by a band has the possibility of ending up on a social media site. I played Pipeline at the Prince Edward Island Guitar Festival and it got a great reaction. I had a young kid who's won several talent shows back me up on rhythm guitar.
The Shadows win hands down.
I like The Ventures too.....but....no group can beat The Shadows ..... they are the very best guitar instrumental group in history.
The Ventures piss all over the Shadows.
I love the Shadows but No Comparison - The Ventures The Best !!! 💕🎸
Taking a perfect sound recording of one band at their best & putting up against less perfectly recorded version from another band on their very last legs proves nothing. They were both excellent bands in their heydays. I love them both.
Proves that The Shadows are still playing in packed venues to thousands and The Ventures in small venues
It seems many people prefer The Shadows over the Ventures here but we should not forget that the Ventures sold much more records then the Shadows and one must agree that both bands have their greatness though the Ventures sound and style is more rocky and contemporary with a strong percussion.So it is difficult to say who is better though personally I prefer the Ventures.
The Shadows had 69 chart entries, 49 of them top 10 including 8 no 1s they also had vocal hits and no1 hits that they wrote for Cliff Richards The Ventures never had a no 1 only two minor hits
@Ray Otstott Walk don't run didn't get to no 1
Shadows win hands down on this showing. Ventures' effort sounds like the sort of music you have to listen to in lifts and elevators.
Blues fan Wins? Do you think it's some kind of competition? It's just music, nothing more.
Johnny Rosenberg Whenever you have two people performing the same thing, or something very similar, they are bound to be compared. I don't know why you find that such a difficult concept to grasp. You may not want to call it competition, but a comparison is bound to be made in a situation like this; indeed the entire presentation invites it, and if you cannot see that then you must be the only person on You Tube who can't.
Blues fan I just can't see why anyone would care. Just listen to the version that you prefer and don't bother other people with it. How hard can it be?
Johnny Rosenberg And you know which version you prefer...how? By only listening to one version? You've out-argued yourself here, because by admitting that a person can prefer one version, you've just destroyed your previous argument that it's all just music. Even someone who has a preference has made a comparison and a judgement. One version is preferred, or "wins", to use my original word. Thank you.
Blues fan I have heard quite a few versions, but yes, maybe I prefer one of them over the others (actually I prefer Shadows' version, but I don't like Apache very much anyway, I've just heard it and played it too many times - my own version is by the way something like a hybrid between the two versions, but I rarely play it at all these days), but what I was trying to say (but obviously failed, maybe because my native language is not English) was not that you only should listen to one version and then prefer that one. I was more trying to say that instead of arguing about what version is, whatever it is, better, worse, heavier, greener, just listen to what you want to listen to. If someone listens to something else, it's their problem. Or luck. People like different things, why arguing about it?
Without hesitation, The Shadows!
Things may have been different if The Shadows manager had got their version of Apache out in the USA first then that would have been the hit that everyone followed. I know both Nokie and Hank and both are brilliant guitarists but it was Hank's version of Apache that inspired me to play the electric guitar.
me too !!!the Ventures are a very great instrumental group but the sound of the Shadows is the top of the top!
Tanto Hank Marvin como The Ventures son fantásticos, distintas versiones pero excelente ambas .
This is all a matter of taste. No one is wrong because they dont share the same taste as another person. The Ventures are my favorite instrumental band, but for my taste, the Shadows really knocked this one outa the park!!!
Personal taste: Shadow sound always provides an orchestral, wide spacious and echo feeling that no one can genuinely imitate.
Loved the Ventures walk don’t run but loved everything by the Shadows Hank the main man
I remember first hearing Apache by Horst Jankowsky in a bar in Japan circa 1961
The Ventures did play some originals like "Journey to the Stars", "Driving Guitars", Kyoto No Koi", "2000 Pound Bee", "Surf Rider", "Mariner No. 4", "Go-Go Dancer" & others
The book "Walk Don't Run--the Story of the Ventures" by Del Halterman. Obtainable online through Ventures fan club. At end has
"studio musician session notes" listing musicians present, which studio, which cut, notes etc. I believe the "wrecking crew" in Los Angeles has played on many Ventures recordings.
What can I say? Individual interpretations of pure genius.
Sound system, engineering and players aside, to me this a Stratocaster tune.
No comparison,Shads much nicer sound much smoother playing.The Shadows blow away the Ventures in every category,their records are all superior.I do love Jorgan Ingman's version as well.
The Shadows very easily win this comparison.
I like The Ventures too.....but....no group can beat The Shadows ..... they are the very best guitar instrumental group in history. The Shadows nailed playing Apache...Hank Marvin is just superb.
To be fair...The Ventures here were not their best...they usually are much better performers ..... a good possibility is their age...this was one of their last performance of Apache.
When I was a security guard I used to shout at the kids Hey walk don't Run!...was an instrumental hit for the ventures who though somewhat stylistically similar to the shadows never enjoyed their success over here though would become huge in japan
Well, Shadows are playing their own version, The Ventures are playing Jørgen Ingmann's version. So it would probably be more correct to compare Jørgen Ingmann with The Shadows in this case. When I want to listen to The Ventures, ”Apache” is certainly not the first title that comes to my mind…
+Johnny Rosenberg Hello Johnny you have made some valid comments on my video but you are probably not aware that Jorgen Ingmann must have copied The Shadows version in the first place because Hank Marvin wrote the intro that is used on these recordings. If you listen to Bert Weedon's version which was recorded but not released before The Shadows Version it does not have Hank's intro
+fincaman2 Well, you are right, I didn't know that Hank did his own intro. I've never heard Jerry Lordan playing the song. Maybe even Jørgen Ingmann didn't know that? I don't know. Anyway, they are still two very different versions while The Ventures' version sounds too much like Ingmann's version so be considered ”a third version”, at least in my opinion. Even if Ingmann copied the intro (even though he played it one octave higher), he surely had a quite different approach for the rest of the song.
I don't think I've heard Bert Weedon's version, I guess mostly because I don't like his style much (someone gave me a Bert Weedon CD many years ago and I listened to it once, but I didn't like it). I know, that's only a matter of taste and nothing more. Fortunately, everybody doesn't have to like the same type of music… :P
well stated , all true , very diplomatic renunciation of this sick uncalled for pissing contest
I'm a HUGE Ventures fan, and I gotta say that The Shadows smoked them on this one
I grew,up with the Ventures, but the Shadows sounded better..Better am
plifiers maybe..
who says music is a competition ? you somekinda record industry leach ?
@@bukkufalking7476 - it was reverb. The Ventures had little if any. The Shadows were all reverb.
Yea, kind of like a 72 year old boxer smoking a 74 year old boxer--doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. We know what the two bands sounded like in their primes. Fuck the Shadows.
@@profd65 I honestly have never heard The Ventures with their normal line up playing live sound good whereas The Shadows always sound good
For comparison we need to take the best interpretations from both... Here ventures has underperformed... And the comparison itself may not be for who is better but for how a same tune can be played in two different styles
These are the best interpretations I can find, if you can find better let me know and I'll do another video
I'd heard only the Ventures growing up, and they were incredible, but the Shadows are leagues ahead in this comparison, without a doubt. And I have to wonder if their other songs outdid anything by the Ventures. So many guitarists truly idolize Hank Marvin. Of course, both groups are pretty old now, so it's not really fair to compare them at that stage since the Ventures' guitarist isn't at his best. Hank Marvin still plays beautifully, though. I wish the comparison played the 1960's versions.
I remember hearing this group as a kid of 6 yrs old, and Ioved them then, and still do now
I think Shadows is the best instrumental group on guitar in the music history period, I love Ventures , Les Fantomes , and all others and appreciate for their work and giving taste of different music style ....
Comparison? What comparison? The Shadows are the clear winners.
When I play it, The Shadows arrangement is simple and easy. Arranging The Ventures is difficult. But, in terms of sound, the Shadows are more preferred.
winners of what ? the booby prize from superficial dimwits like you ?
I grew up with the ventures as far as I'm concerned they are absolute magic
Congratulations!!!! You've done the tune 'APACHE; beautifully, ENJOYED.
Caravan by Nokie Edwards on an album "Bobby Vee Meets the Ventures " (circa 1961-2 by Liberty Records?)
shows his talent. Its one of two solo instrumentals on the record. He plays a Fender through a Fender amp.
Every note is clear. it's a very great recording. Guitarist appreciate it. Alabama Jubilee and I Got a Woman
showcase his ability and I believe he plays all three of these tunes as encores to show his skill.
Great grand wonderful beautiful ...i love both shadows and ventures..wow..wow...wow.
I like the Ventures for their many productions. However, I liked the Shadow's performance of Apache.
THESE ARE BOTH GREAT BANDS, BUT THIS IS NOT A FAIR COMPARISON. NOKIE EDWARDS (VENTURES LEAD GUITARIST) IS OBVIOUSLY STRUGGLING HERE BECAUSE OF AGE MOST LIKELY. HE IS ONE OF THE GREATEST GUITARISTS THAT HAS EVER LIVED AND IS KNOWN FOR HIS SMOOTH AND FANCY GUITAR ABILITES.
THE SHADOWS SOUND GREAT HERE, AND I LIKE THE SHADOWS VERY MUCH, BUT.... I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A BETTER VENTURES VERSION OF 'APACHE' PUT HERE INSTEAD OF THE ONE THAT WAS SELECTED.
There is only 4 years difference in their ages on this video. If you can find a better version of The Ventures Playing Apache live I will do another video
A from what I've read, The Ventures didn't like how record labels would turn out albums with "The Ventures" label slapped on them but on which The Ventures weren't playing but rather all session musicians
Love both groups, but Hank is in a class by himself, and has been since he arrived on the scene before any famous rock electric guitarists existed.
the ventures the shadows both are simply great i love them
Both the Groups are superb in displaying their skill.
Getting ready to go out (The Shadows)...2am drinking in a barroom (The Ventures)...= The Ventures for me
I don' think anyone here gets it. It's not a comparison to see who is better or worse. Just a comparison of two different styles. Neither is better, neither is worse, just different and anyone who has ever laid a finger on a fret and picked a string will tell you that Nokie and Hank are two of the best that have ever played and both are equally amazing!!
The recording quality of the Shadows clip was better. Don't let that adfect your judgement though. The Ventures add beautiful touches throughout that make it so much better.
Try the Ventures in Japan 1965 . They are a well oiled machine.
I like both The Shadows and The Ventures. Have had the pleasure to meet The Ventures. Interesting how both video's by the Ventures on here though are both low quality. Especially the Ghost Riders audience recording. If you really want to compare equally, go the Ventures website and purchase one of their professionally shot concerts. I have quite a few. Everybody has a preference, I'm prone to the Ventures, but also really like the Shadows, but to see people swearing back and forth at each other, just shows how ignorant some people really are. I'd love to see them both.
I checked, and I have and listened to the DVD of The Ventures playing Apache, and for some reason the sound on youtube here seems a lot thinner than on the actual DVD, almost like it's been doctored with. Oh well, don't know what happened here. Now I have to find me a copy of The Shadows DVD, and hopefully CD of this concert.
+Sean Atteberry
I did not doctor anything The Shadows always sound great whether live or recorded
Also, Nokie's around 80 years old here. How old is Hank? I learned to play guitar with The Ventures, saw them 4 years ago, Nokie was 82 then, and still amazing.
Ventures have always sounded thin and tinny compared to the rich sounds of The Shadows right back to the original 60's recordings. Being 71 I have lived with both bands from their earliest days to the present and The Shadows have always outshone The Ventures in tone and style.
@@alecfed Hank was about 4 years younger on this video
Yeah, I'm glad we have both of them.
There has never been a bigger fan of Nokie's than I am. However, for about the last ten years of Nokie's career, he basically was phoning it in at concerts. Granted, his health was not the best but his heart just was not into it any more. Regardless, in his prime, Nokie was top drawer!
Can you please post what in your opinion is Nokies best performance, live or record...?
No question that the Shadows own the Ventures here.
@fincaman2 As explained above, I base my opinion of both bands from listening to their albums and watching their videos not from one song. Unlike the Ventures, Apache is one of the few uptempo songs played by the Shadows.
Please don't ask me to choose! I am a huge Ventures fan, but Hank Marvin OWNS this song and always will. A version of this by the Shadows with acoustic rhythm guitar is out here on RUclips somewhere. It really adds something to the bridge. Also check it out.
I love both bands but I think The Shadows kept with their original sound more consistently than The Ventures. One reason is The Ventures kept on changing guitars over the years and The Shadows didn't. Hank Marvin stuck to Fender Strats and an occassional Burns guitar. Also Hank Marvin's playing remained constant even into old age.
The Shadows version sounds more mysterious or spy music like.
I play the Shadows version with a couple Ventures parts tossed in so I don't get bored...so, the hybrid version!
The Issues over here are not of live performance of the musicians but of sound recording /engineering. Things can also be manipulated. In fact, considering the last part of this video edit, I think the presenter of this clip is bias. Thus, no judgement can be passed on the performance of the artists from both the groups.
Both videos are straight from utube and are not changed in any way
I've always disliked this song for some reason. It sounds great when the shadows do it, but it just bores the hell out of me no matter how good or bad it's played. The ventures are definitely feeling the effects of old age after 50 years. It can be said that while I think Nokie Edwards in his prime was a superior guitarist to Hank, It appears time has yet to catch up with Hank as it has with Nokie. But then again, The Ventures cut way more records and did way more tours than the shadows ever did
Wrong
My first favorite is The Shadows. I like the ventures.
Apache is one of the only songs both bands perform. Not sure if the Shadows ever did Pipeline or Wipeout. They must have at some point. Even in 2012, Pipeline always gets people's attention. I'd love to start a surf band but opportunities to play in 2012 may be limited. I may do it anyway simply for the love of this music and how playing it will elevate any guitar player's skills. I do live on an island (PEI, Canada) so who knows.
For me I love the Shadows.... Bruce play chords louder....and very clear...... most of all the Shadows was the first group who set 3 Guitars and 1 Drum to the world known...
The problem is that if you don't have English TV you won't have seen Hank's versatility He pops up every now and then and often plays in different styles Chuck Berry etc. The other problem is that the fans want to hear the famous "Hank Marvin sound" which no one on the planet has ever got close to, he is single handedly responsible for the popularity of the Stratocaster certainly outside America
As you know in 50's and early sixties British acts did not make it westward across the pond. Thus Americans
were not exposed to the Shadows and Hank Marvin and Cliff Richards and such. I will concede that Apache,
Atlantis, and Wonderful Land --written by Jerry Lordan and as performed by the Shadows were deserving of exposure stateside. The Tornadoes with Telstar broke the British instrumental "embargo", and of course the
Beatles opened the floodgates. Sadly, not all artist got their due.
Hank is the man!!
+Mikey Hall You´re right !!!
I could listen to Hank and The Shadows all day long.
Shadows had better and smoother continuity. They are much easier to listen to. Ventures are jerky and lack the Shadows' polish.
Go to 2004 Jan Bob Bogle Medley and you'll get the Ventures with a superb sound that needs to be heard.
About the better guitarist--the Ventures, Shadows, Jorgen Ingmann. Nokie Edwards, the bass player of the original ventures (Bob Bogle-Don Wilson) is the better guitarist by far.
Nokie Edwards can do everything Bob, Hank or Jorgen can do:but they cannot do what Nokie does. Jorgen would be my 2nd choice. Hank is creative and gives top notch concerts. Bob has a pleasant tremelo bar sound. But Nokie Edwards is by far the best guitarist.
You're using the Ventures 50th anniversary copy.... Nokie was over 70 years old!!... No wonder he made some mistakes. In the States we all learned the version done by the Ventures and most like it better than the Shadows' version. This comparison doesn't really answer the 'Who's Best?' question. I personally like both version, but lean to the Ventures. Personal preference
I like the Shadows best. It they would add the "string scratching" it would be perfect. I like the harder rock version of the Shadows. Both are great!
The Shadows are more traditional more like the original and the Ventures take a song and redo it somewhat and make it their own, to say nothing of the fact that the lead guitar players from both groups having an entirely 180 degree style from each other to begin with good music is good music I like both groups
I can honestly say that I have never heard Don Wilson make a mistake while playing rhythm. Well...I might think of one question I would like to ask him. On an early "Sleepwalk" I think I hear the rhythm playing an F major chord instead of the F minor like Santo and Johnny do it. No really, he's good. He adds to the sound that fills
a lot. Nokie when he plays bass adds a lot to the early Venture's sound as well.
Love them, them BOTH....
Hank Marvin & The Shadows clearly out did the Ventures cover of this, in this instance.
When growing up in the SF Bay Area the version that got all the airplay was Jorgen Ingram's version of 'Apache'. I've always preferred THAT version of the song, probably because it was the one I heard most often. The version that I play is a combination of both versions.
No doubt in my mind. The Shadows, the original and the best version.
There is no comparison The Shadows are far superior soundwise they are two different bands
ahaha and pigs can drop bombs from the sky, this is a video from shadows lover, this sound comparrison doesn't make sense...ventures are rhythmically and technically way out from their league, who says otherwise see less...and that is de facto
Well I really enjoyed the comparison. I play both Ventures, and the Shadows on guitar. The Ventures are huge here in Canada, and even bigger in Japan. Last 10 years or so I have preferred playing the Shadows much more. There are many similar songs that you could compare such as Perfida, just to name one, but having said that I once again perfer the Shadows version. Thanks for the posting, and cheers from Vancouver BC
From what is presented here, the Shadows is a better sounding recording to my ears. But, the comparison is a little unfair because I've been listening to The Shadows Apache since 1960 and this is the first time I have heard The Ventures. All that must cloud any objectivity.
.50 seconds in and the winner by a clear decision(my opinion of course since this is my comment):THE SHADOWS!
La versión de The Shadows es mejor, por lejos, por mayor profundidad de volumen del sonido. Pero, nunca he escuchado una rendición de Walk don´t Run de The Shadows.
ruclips.net/video/YrDXCX1up_w/видео.html
@@TheShadows50 Thanks. I had not heard that track before.
@@ianthomsonnewman4048 De nada. Es una buena versión. Fue grabada en el LP "Tasty" de 1977. Saludos.
Do I have to bring my own version?
Hmm never heard of these, I'm afraid they are not a patch on the shadows
Like Bruce´s haircut and the bass-line
I'm a die hard Ventures fan. But, I have to say that Hank Marvin and the Shadows have this beat!!!!