Overview of Canadian Gun Laws (2017)
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- Опубликовано: 1 янв 2018
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Today, a general overview of Canadian gun laws, so we Americans (and you folks across the ocean) can have a better idea of what the legal situation is in the Great White North. Please recognize that this is a general overview only - we are not getting into the nitty gritty details, and this is not meant to be used for legal advice. Thanks to John at Marstar for joining me!
If you enjoy Forgotten Weapons, check out its sister channel, InRangeTV! / inrangetvshow
This is going to need a 2020 update...
Dan Hauser yeah, the laws suck now
Trudeau has no clue what the hell he is doing
Yeah
I haven’t been following. What changed?
@@jonahc2807
Trudeau banned AR-15's, M-14's, everything 50bmg, any shotgun, rifle, handgun over 12 gague, or the use of removable chokes in some 12 gague models, as well as a whole wack of other stuff.
Being a Canadian, when asked by Americans how our gun laws are I say we use the Hollywood rule, if its been in a movie its banned.
when you compare gun laws in canada to gun laws in croatia i wuld be happy if my conunty have gun laws like yours
If a gun fires rounds that can penetrate armour like 5.7x29, it's prohibited. If it's related to the AK at ALL, it's prohibited.
Other than that, you can own virtually every gun that's seen in both games and movies. You can get a Kriss Vector, or even an FN-SCAR.
We can basically own anything, but you can just have barely any rounds in it.
kevin C we can't own SCARs here, they're prohib.
Same applies to the U.S. Vast majority of our gun laws were made by idiots who's only exposure to guns their entire life is in a movie thus they feel like they have become firearms experts justifying their ignorance.
It is rather nice getting some Soviet/Chinese arms that are disallowed in the States.
A minute of silence at the end there for all those prohibited firearms that can never be fired.
F
Brigand231's Videos No frekin way. There is nothing in the Firearms Act that says they cannot be used. It does say that an Authorization to Transport must be issued by the Provincial Chief Firearms Officer in order to transport from your home, and they will only issue on if you move and are transporting to your new home. They just refuse to issue an ATT for taking to a range. What this is, is the RCMP, a police organization working under contract by the federal government to enforce the laws passes through parlimentary process, deciding that they can abuse their powers whenever they want because the government has no balls to stop them. AND YOU THINK WE SHOULD BE SILENT ABOUT IT !!!
I'm not sure what you're on about man. I was observing that there was a minute (actually almost a minute and a half) at the end of the video of dead space, ie nothing going on. I appreciate your enthusiasm and passion, but I think you've misunderstood my comment.
I could have said, "Yo, Ian, what's with the blank space at the end?" instead.
They can actually be fired there are a number of private gun clubs that cater to prohibited owners and have the required insurance and licenses. The clubs will also help with the ATT permits. The hard part is finding one of those clubs in your area.
yet ian fires prohibs in canada
OK, AKM, prohibited; VZ58, unrestricted. Galil, prohibited; Tavor, unrestricted. FAL, prohibited; M-14, unrestricted. Makes perfect sense ;)
Well good God, man, don't bring that to their attention
Not quite, but close. Most M-14s are prohibited. The Norincos, which are actually considered *just* different enough to be a different design, aren't. The Springfield M-1A, is classed either restricted or non-restricted based on barrel length.
It's actually somewhat common for guys to source USGI M-14 parts (pretty much everything but the receiver) and install them on a Nork receiver. In recent times, the best source for those parts kits has been Israel, through a dealer in Manitoba.
Yeah, the weapon classifications are mostly reactionary and pretty poorly thought out, but the overall concept of the system is probably the best compromising option I've seen internationally.
My understanding is that the committee that drew up the original bill in 1995 or 96 (it's been that long) went through the then-current issue of Gun Digest and circled everything that looked evil and scary, adding it to the Prohibited list. Then the DCRA (Canada's governing body for Service Rifle competition) went to the gov't and pleaded with them to keep the AR-15 off the prohib list, because it was common and popular in competition.
As an aside, had I been a smart Grizz and got my firearms license back when I turned 18, I could have gotten in under the wire for prohibited pistols before that part came into effect Jan 1, 1998. Instead, I waited until I was 20, and missed that boat completely.
M14's are considered prohibited because they are either Fully automatic or Converted automatic. The Norinco and Springfield rifles are non-restricted because they are semi-automatic only. It has nothing to do with the design being different because it isn't any different.
Too polite to take the plug....how Canadian is THAT?
Not gonna lie I noticed that as well. Speaking as a Canadian tho I'm not surprised by his reaction, and if anything I'm surprised he didn't list off his top 5 competitors as well as himself.
speaking as a Canuck.....very Canadian
Most Canadians know better than to shop at Marstar. John has sold fake T2 Garands with the locking lugs ground down to fix headspace issues. He's sold fake SVT snipers too.
The general gist I get from Canadian gun laws is "this is what the law is, unless someone decided that it isn't." Antiques are non-restricted, unless for some reason they are. Pistols are restricted, but sometimes they're prohibited, except sometimes they aren't. The IWI Tavor is legal depending on who you ask and what day of the week it is. Etc...
And guns that look scary(guns with pistol grips and rails) are prohibited, even if equal to or less equal in lethality than an m14 copy.
Nextralife
Pretty much.
Sad, huh?
Then there's the RCMP arbitrarily deciding that something that was legal last Tuesday, isn't legal anymore because reasons!
That is, in a nutshell, the Canadian Firearms Program. There is a group beaurocrats within the RCMP and Federal Gov who sit down, look at a submitted firearm(or revisit an old model because they are sadists) amd decide, based upon flavor of the week in the political world, if a new weapon should be restricted or not. And when they revisit old ones they have about a 99% track record of deciding it is somehow now one step away from a machine gun and try to prohibit it. Oh yeah, but the M1 Garand is non-restricted and can have 8 shots in the en-bloc because... John Garand was a Canadian. Or something. I guess. Maybe. But the AUG is evil because one disgruntled chap tried to shoot an embassy with it. Once. But the Tavor is okay because...when it was submitted the Gov at the time was on good terms with Israel. But Galil's are evil Communist AK variants. Just like the SVD. See how this goes?
@@theangrycheeto SCAR is supposed to be up for a resubmit at FRT. We will, hopefully this time they decide in our favor...like the nearly identical ACR or XCR... That said I have little hope, as they just retroactively banned all of Troy's XM177E2 clones...because machine gun apparently? No real reason, they probably just had beef with the importer...
@@theangrycheeto As I understand it currently, it is a case by case, as per the CZ 858 models being banned but most other VZ 58 models being non-restricted. Many other retro ARs are here and are totally okay...
"They can't just change the rules like that." Does anyone else feel like dealing with the government is like dealing with a bully at school. Or Lando's negotiation with Vader?
they cant just change the rules like that
sadly it happens with prime minster trudeau..
RIP the AR-15, you will be missed.
@@nokh3382 if you go thinking like that then that will become the reality, it doesn’t matter if it seems dark right now just imagine Canadians standing up to the government demanding them to respect our right to own firearms and they will back off
@@nokh3382 SA-20, hoser
Yes
.45 Long Colt is banned by name but .455 Webley is fine? That's not "banning a dangerous cartridge", that's flat out demonstrating that Canada is still, ultimately, a British colony.
Well .45 Long Colt isn't banned, it just means a firearm chambered in it does not qualify as an antique and is subject to the same restrictions as modern firearms.
@Norbert Kausen Yes they bloody ARE!
It was actually me being utterly stumped as to why they treat .45 Long Colt (an American cartridge) differently from .455 Webley (a British one) since both are revolver cartridges (for the most part)
@D R amen brother! You get it.
The pols aren't idiots though, they do not fail by accident, the figure out the powergrab/solution before there is a problem.
Go Jets!
@@RedShocktrooperRST Because. 455 Wembley are hard to get and regarded as an obsolute calibre i. e. antique
You should do more of these more countries from around the world
Uinseann Lúd Mac Murchadha Caomhánach Australia is always used as an example of draconian gun laws, but the overwhelming majority of Australians support the laws. I did the initial gun safety course and was really impressed how reasonable the laws are, and also how sane people at the gun clubs are compared to your average American gun nut (I don’t include the host of this channel in that group, he’s a fantastic example of a gun lover)
Alex Mason what would you describe as your average American gun nut?
Yeah the British one would be hilarious. The only good thing we have is you can have suppressors.
Alex Mason it's only anti gun people (of which there is a higher percentage than the US) in Australia who support the gun laws here.
For the majority of firearms owners here the only perceived benefit from John Howard's firearms laws and the buyback is the fact that most of the "bad apples" in the firearms community here have been removed or re-educated (largely by the firearms community itself NOT by any legislation/bureaucracy/policing).
The whole sorry saga following Port Arthur was nothing but an attempt to take the focus off the failings of the mental health system and law enforcement in Tasmania and blame an inanimate object that can't defend itself before the blame was placed squarely on those it belonged to and nothing else.
Firearms owners will agree that the "bad apples" or "gun nuts" needed to go from their community, however NONE will agree that the current legislation is either fair towards responsible sporting shooters or necessary to keep society "safe".
Criminals will always be criminals and if they wish to procure a firearm to commit a crime they will always find someone willing and able to provide it to them legally or not.
Alex Mason Fallacy of relative privation. People use the U.S to justify domestic laws when they should be comparing their own country to itself in the past. The sky wasn't falling before gun control in Australia, and it has had a negligible impact on crime.
12:20
"they can't just change the rules on a SAA" -Ian
"I'm sorry"-John
Spoken like a true canadian
Ian, this is not 'Nam; there are rules.
Ha, It is so true.
"Canadian Tire is a good one..." lol
When you don't want to shout out yourself but you also don't want to shout out your actual competition.
Before I was told about Canadian Tire, "...lol" was my exact thought.
or a M305 (M14 clone) for $650.
Only a fellow Canadian could understand why you'd recommend someone to Canadian tire for a product that you sell yourself
Guy I met at the old gun range I went to said he bought his Tavor from a Canadian Tire in Leduc. There's some interesting guns that pop up there; in my local CT, there's a Moisin-Nagant with the scope and a Russian capture Mauser 98.
In the UK we can't have firearms if we fart in the direction of a home invader we go to jail
Same here in Germany
You are wrong. Know your laws: www.juraindividuell.de/pruefungsschemata/notwehr-nothilfe-und-notstand/ and ruclips.net/video/rVQX7i6Mito/видео.html.
Do the criminals arm themselves with firearms in the UK? Parliament cares nothing about it's citizens safety, only the safety of the aristocrats. The Queens guards aren't patrolling nor standing guard while unarmed. Seems like the point I'm making is Britain is in fear of public force against its overlords and arming its citizens would only further fuel those fears. Here in the USA gun ownership has risen while gun violence overall has droped. On the other hand we too have groups with antigun political agendas whom insite media hype to place blame of tragic incidents at the feet of gun owners rather than the individual(s) at fault. Restricting freedom only hinders the ability for the Law Abiding Citizen to defend themselves properly against those who illegally have access to banned items. With that said I'm not saying that everybody should be walking around with RPGs or have access to land mines or weapons of mass destruction, you think that would be implied but some people don't use common sense. All people sound of mind, willing to train and certify through an accredited instructor should be unhindered to bare firearms by their government if in a free society.
The police don't even carry guns right???
Man then they wonder why they have a terrorism problem
@@theprfesssor They don't carry guns but they carry batons and tazer, hell it takes 3 officer to arrest 1 person sometimes, if someone has a gun or is armed with a weapon (even a knife) Armed forces are dispatched with SMGs. although if you go to London Police are actually armed their due to recent terrorism problems like u said, although most terrorists over here just attack with knives because buying a gun is extremely hard (Not impossible) or they just make Molotov Cocktails.
In fairness, the laws around guns are almost as fascinating as the guns themselves.
I'm forever fascinated at the laws that are enacted, especially in the US, that show they are trying to look like they're doing something without actually solving anything.
One of the few benefits to Australia's laws are, because they are so aggressive, there aren't many loopholes or quirks. The US, on the other hand, attempting to not infringe and annoy half their population end up with silly laws that restrict the strangest things.
I think Canada has a decent balance.
And the mechanical innovations made to cope with them. It keeps the world interesting. can you imagine what the world would be like if unfettered ar-15's reduced all other civilian rifles to overpriced collectible antiques?
In fairness, the laws around guns no matter the country are all revolting.
Except it doesn't work
2A
As a collector of military firearms in Canada it always pains me that a regular length Luger pistol is considered Prohibited. I don't feel like shelling out $2000-$6000 for an Artillery Model or having a regular one rebarreled and have its collector value destroyed.
One plus though is the ease in getting nice cheap Soviet surplus arms.
BTemple apparently there are American made lugers you can buy for less than 2000 that would be legally ok to own due to barrel length and whatnot so maybe try that Avenue it's not going to be the awesome military gun but it will at least give u the feel of one
Himmul Khan Oh I know you can get those, but I prefer something for its intrinsic historical value. I do know of 30 Luger caliber versions that have a long enough barrel... but that ammo isn't cheap or easy to find.
BTemple yeah ik the feeling my grandfather lives in texas and owns a few lugers including one that was apparently ss issue and was a bringback I've had the privilege of handling it
BTemple I know. Can't have a Luger because of a 4mm barrel difference. You can have it if you have a collector license but to get that License you need a collection of 10 registered guns
Tyler Gerein All you need is 10? Well hell I didn't know i could get a Collector license already
One thing he forgot to note is Semi-auto magazines are limited to 5 rounds, and pistol magazines are limited to 10.
You know he's Canadian by how he politely dodged a chance to plug his own business. That been down here would been like ( Come on down to crazy Joes Gats, Tats and titty bar rush down now for our buy two Glock's and get a lap dance for free special).
not that it would have done much good, they seem to be well known and not very well liked in the firearms community up north.
+Forgotten Weapons If you're interested we could do an italian version of this,i'd gladly partecipate in that
Ravioli is restricted, but Chef Boyardee is prohibited
..........
Yes id love a NZ one
Heheheh as me being from the Netherlands i buy my shotgun shells lead wads primers and slugs in Italy without a single problem and thats what people without permits love....
In Canada Sono molto piu liberali check da noi😥
Friendly reminder that the Canadians banned the G11 but not the M14.
I forgot about that! Yes, some stupidly rare prototypes are banned by name
Yeah the Jackhammer shotgun as well. Which there is only 1 left in existence.
But if it got in the wrong hands! In Canada! My god we'd see another madman with a shotgun in his safe! Think of the children!
Well technically, M14 were select fire. Automatics, and automatics converted to semi-automatic are prohibited, though we can have an M1A if it has a semi auto manufactured reciever.
We also banned the AK platform but the VZ58 can be had with the same ease as the M14.
Clear proof that whoever made our laws doesn't know poop from apple sauce, and would eat both. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This fixation on barrel lenght to determine if a firearm should be restricted or not is bizarre. I don't understand what it is supposed to accomplish. The prohibition based on looks is purely asanine however.
I think that it's becouse more a barell is short more it's easy to hide a gun. But's just a guess.
LittleLion93 yep
Short guns are easier to conceal, and to use in confined spaces. Banning them is a simple way to make it slightly more inconvenient to commit a shooting spree, while still allowing sport shooting.
The beginnings of laws restricting based on barrel length and/or overall size began in the roaring 20's when a lot of criminals were using cut-down shotguns and rifles. This was because at the time you didn't have Glocks so most handguns were either underpowered... unreliable... overpriced and/or obsolescent.
theophileification it is about concealment. Every sees well away, if one is lugging a full length hunting rifle and thus can react accordingly.
Pocketable pistol or under jacket saw off? One can get to point blank and shoot before other people have time to react.
Ofcourse one could snipe with the hunting rifle with none wiser, but that takes skill.
Point is to prevent every Jane and John doe carrying a concealed mass tool of destruction next to public none wiser and with no time to react should one have ill intent.
It also makes the ill intent people stick out should someone spot the weapon. If carrying handgun or short gun is verboten, everyone knows the person must have ill intent, since they are breaking law just by having it.
Canada be like: Your firearm is only legal if you have a longer barrel, therfore giving it more velocity
Makes sense
nothing about magazines size? i thought that rifles can hold maximum of 5 rounds and pistols 10+1
right?...
That is correct.
Tomek Inn You can have more if the magazine was made for a different caliber I believe.
Semi auto rifles can only hold 5 rounds max. But it's based on what firearm the magazine is intended for. A great example is the AR-15 can only hold 5 rounds in a mag but an LAR pistol can hold 10 rounds so long as the magazine is stamped for LAR Pistol, then a person could use that mag in their AR-15 and fire 10 rounds or use a .50 Beowolf mag and fire 14 rounds.
Tomek Inn There are certain peculiarities:
- If it is a rimfire magazine designed for a rifle, there is no magazine restriction
- Some rifles are exempted by name, such as the Garand
(edited to reflect that which was posted by thatmanitobaguy seconds earlier)
Manual action rifles have no round limits. So tube fed lever/pump action rifles and any manual action with a proprietary mag that wasn't designed for a semi auto has no limits.
I remember a self defense case over in Canada that disgusted me: A guy was in his house and was being fire-bombed by three guys trying to throw molotov cocktails into his windows while he was inside. The home owner grabbed an 'antique' rifle and fired at them to run them off. It was all caught on clear home surveillance video, yet the authorities STILL pressed charges against the homeowner! I never followed up on the case to find our how it turned out though...
Can't wait for the UK version where it's 5 minutes long and lists what you are actually allowed
Hey, we don't have to do a 2 day course on guns though. We just have to do a small multiple choice test at the gun shop and the owners help because they want to make a sale.
@@wiwong9684 if you're saying that about the UK that's not even close to the truth...
A Sawyer true The only guns in the UK that are licensed are Shotguns and rifles.
@@lukedaley17 I beleive we can have long barreled pistols
@@joeboom0697 that we can have too. Thanks for pointing it out.
One nice thing in Canada is that you can buy firearms from anywhere in the country without having to go via a local dealer. This applies to getting guns from both licensed retailers and individuals.
this is the kind of thing that makes me appreciate this channel so much. just a straight forward list of the way things are with some "interesting"'s thrown in and "idiosyncratic" rather than a typical "this is just stupid..." like a lot of other channels.great video.
Agreed its great to hear this talked about civilly
Interesting stuff. The ban by name seems incredibly stupid (how is that AR-15 more dangerous than the M14?) but the process of checks and classes seems sensible.
Eh, ARs get bad press because they're scary looking military rifles and because they're a favorite of mass shooters. That said, they're a favorite of mass shooters because they're cheap, plentiful, reliable, and easy to use, not because the design is intrinsically more dangerous than an M14. Plus, the M14 doesn't look scary. It has a traditional stock instead of a pistol grip. Therefore it's not tactical and dangerous. Also I imagine it's a fairly practical (if heavy) target and hunting rifle. The AR is a pretty good rifle for varmints and small game, but it wouldn't be most people's first choice for the more common game up in Canada. At least these are all the reasons I can think of for why legislators would allow them. At least they can get them, though. The M14 is still a fine rifle for most applications even if it's been largely outclassed for military purposes.
The people who made up the law literally went through a book and prohibited the ones that they thought looked "evil".
The first mistake is trying to put any logic into it.
Minute Man yeah that seems highly plausible considering a gun like the hk g11 is prohibited by name like really
Minute Man it does work the other way though. Ar15 type weapons tend to be very popular because of their tacticalness. By allowing them outright the amount of AR15 would surge. Would that be a good thing? I don't know. People who want a practical weapon for home use and only have jump through one hoop. Want a cooler weapon for your hobby? Jump through some more hoops to be able to fire it.
One important things to mention. If you hold a PAL (gun license) in Canada you are subjected to a police record check every single day you have it.
I thought that was only for RPAL holders?
So all my neighbors are rats...
Welcome to the hell that is 2020
This is the first Forgotten Weapons video I've seen with any commentary on politics. You still managed to not be a dick about. I wish all firearms discussions could be as civil as the ones on this channel. Sadly, none are.
I like the fact that a 50cal semi auto GM6 Lynx is non restricted, I can shoot it in my back yard, but the AR15 is restricted, I have to go to a certified gun range to shoot a AR. You can really tell the people who make the gun laws know there guns.
To be fair, anyone who can afford a .50 cal and the ammunition probably is well off enough that they're not planning on committing a spectacular homicide with it. Seriously, I want to be friends with someone who can afford a $8,000-$20,000 rifle lol
I don't think cost should affect what's restricted or not. So why can I buy a iwi tavor that's non restricted, it's smaller and more concealable than the "dangerous" mass murdering ar15
Oh, no no. Sorry for not being clear; I wasn't talking about cost being related to the restricted status, I was joking that if anyone has that much money to spend on a gun of that power, they're probably not going to be the ones going out and committing crimes with them.
I honestly think that the entirety of the prohibited by name list was done at the same time in the early 90s (I think it was 1992?) and hasn't been updated since. It's really stupid, but back then I think there was way more of a mass hysteria about scary looking guns than there is now. I'm hoping they one day revisit that list and get rid of it because I'd love to own an FAL sometime.
We like it that way
but if you live out in the boonies how could they ever enforce that law?
This was great. One of your best videos, as it's two individuals from different legal systems, but both with the same goal in business and personal life -- to shoot cool guns. I had always wondered about how gun laws worked in Canada compared to the US, and it's really interesting to see how someone does that in within a system with much stricter laws. Would love to see more like this!
Once again. I love how much I learn from this channel.
you guys should do a video with Civil Advantage, great canadian gun channel that routinely goes into depth about Canadian gun law
I'm sure these comments will be good...
G I would guess some of these arguments about firearms rights are in reference to the Britain and the right to bear arms as a historical concept in English common law. Nonetheless it seems to be the case that overall European gun laws were less restrictive in the past.
+G If you think mass unchecked migration hasn't caused any issues for Europe you're lying to yourself. Of course it's not like you describe but c'mon the balkanization is clear and the rise in crime correlates perfectly with when the floodgates were opened in 2015.
. Have you looked into it at all? Even Angela Merkel says she regrets her migrant policy and wants to go back on it. It's too late though damage done now it's up to the people to deal with the consequences.
Law makers are idiots!
G There are extreme sides to every argument, but those extreme voices shouldn't be used to muddy the waters of rational discussion. But I get what you're saying. The Internet as a whole is like a giant outrage machine where everything is taken to the extreme, and the people who are loudest are given greater attention. You guys will definitely face some challenges in Europe because of Merkel's policies and I hope you guys stay safe. Best of luck from the US
* gets moose jerky *
Nice to see you up here Ian.
That feeling when you get really excited that there is some extra content after the patreon slide... only to be shot down by a minute of black screen :-(
People having no business making laws for things they don't understand. It's like living in a bizarro world.
Kenny VanCleave not sure about that. There's always a lobby of some kind that gets put into writing some way or another. Not saying you're 100% wrong, but looking at other industries..
People who write legislation on firearms should have mandatory training on firearms and current firearms laws.
Unfortunately it's not just limited to firearms, it happens just in general whenever someone is put in a role that they have little to no experience with, like for example someone with no governing experience being made a President *cough* but I agree, in any situation the person in a given role should have relevant experience and education about it
I bet your old self who wrote this would never believe yourself from now if you went back in time and told your old self 'Man, you are never going to believe this. See it all started in early 2020.'
Great video. As a Canadian I think by and large the idea behind our gun laws makes sense (classifications, required safety training and background checks, laws around carrying) but the often random specifics for certain guns or ammo times seem to be just made up at random and serve no real purpose (restricting by name for example).
Would love to see you get more into the use and operation laws as well as what you can and can't actually own. For a US audience, there might be some very interesting differences in the laws around carry, transport, magazine size and so on up here.
Welp - it's time to update this video given what happened last week.
When blowdarts ninja stars and one handed crossbows are illegal
I can tell you as a Canadian, The laws here a ridiculous, and they frequently change them on a whim which makes being law abiding difficult.
They recently prohibited a CZ 858 variant because it had Molon Labe engraved into it.
Yeah, that was pretty friggin' dumb.
I'm just glad that they reversed the general CZ858 and Classic Green ban due to intense backlash/ government support for gun owners. That was a rare victory for us, and I can still use my CZ858 without worrying about getting arrested. That really pissed me off.
John doesn't really know what he's talking about half the time. 12.6 prohibited firearm owners are freely allowed to get ATTs
Molon Labe it is then.
Stop voting for Trudeau. Vote PPC and Maxime Bernier if you want firearms freedom.
out of date now. everythings banned.
Everything? What happend?
@@tijdvooraardappels nova scotia shooter. order in council from the pm office banning most everything.
not mostly everything, but a lot.
As to prohibited hand guns with a sub 4.25” barrel they are classified as 12(6) prohibited. They can be taken to a handgun range and fired. Other prohibited firearms may not be taken to the range.
Exactly. There were many oversights in this video
@Syphax Atlas Who's talking about carry licenses? This is about grandfathered handguns.
this came at the perfect time for me. good job man!
OOOOHHH CANADA!! Our home and restricted laaaaaaand! true patriot love with all thy guns demand!
haha still better than your homecountry :-* (big fan)
Didn't know you watched this channel! Great content also, Mat!
Well who doesn’t watch matsimus and gun Jesus
It's OK Matti - I'm pissed about not being able to own a FAL too... ;)
I stand on bended knee?
Two notes of correction prohibited can only be passed down 3 generations from the original applicant and you can get an open carry permit for work/farming if you work or farm in high risk areas for predators my dad has an open carry permit and we live in Alberta
tvercetti1 I am because I live in Canada, my family has a prohib that was being passed down and my children will be the last generation it can go to after them it has to be given to a museum or destroyed by the rcmp . And my father has an open carry licence, it’s hard to get and they only really give it to farmers trappers and land surveyors in high predator areas for use strictly against predatorily animals not humans. Open carry was probably one of the loopholes they said they weren’t going to mention because it’s so hard to get and the prohib we only found that out when we did the last transfer so unless they changed the law again it can only be passed down to the 3rd generation from the original applicant for the prohib licence I’m not saying he was wrong just that he probably didn’t know
tvercetti1 Yea it’s pretty awesome except that you have to renew annually, I didn’t know you could get a personal defence atc or even concealed I thought you could only get open carry that’s pretty neat, and as I said they may have changed the prohib inheritance law it was about 3-4 years ago we got it transferred last, I know a lot of people were up set their prohib guns could only be transferred 2 more times after they were grandfathered in so your grandchildren would have to decide to get a family heirloom destroyed or put in a museum
Post note I looked it up they abolished the transfer limit for prohib as far as I can find they just restricted inheritors to immediate family
@@Clinity what you say is true , I know bush surveyors that have carry permits here in b.c.
One correction: For the ATC (in Alberta, at least) you get a one year permit the first year you obtain one. After that, your permit is good for 2 years at a time. To give an idea of the "Proof of Proficiency" test you have to pass first, I created this video: ruclips.net/video/l0tTy4SYcbc/видео.html
Canadian gun owner here, and a reenactor. This is my current "arsenal": 1 Long Land Pattern Bess and 1 Short Land Pattern Bess. These are classed as Antiques, in spite of the fact they are repros. No PAL required at all. 2 Mosin-Nagant M91/30s, 1 SVT-40, 1 30-30 Winchester, 1 .303 Lee-Enfield, 1 .22 single shot rifle. All non-restricted, so legal to own after passing the simple two-day test (more like 6 hours) and getting a PAL. The only thing I would add to the video is that magazines are 5-round maximum, so my SVT-40 mag is pinned. And I have no problem with this; if I used it for hunting and couldn't hit the target with 5 rounds, I shouln't be hunting.
And hopefully a u-haul loaded up on the front lawn and an American citizenship in your back pocket with enough gas money to get you to a Red State.
Time for an update as per this weeks' announcement (May, 2020) on the ban on ALL automatic weapons. This is the first Ian video I've seen with a DISCLAIMER at the front!!!
He says he's Ian but he's actually gun Jesus.
Do a video on Australian laws. You will cringe so hard at our laws.
One man managed to screw over Australia's weapon laws and make people trade in war relics to be sawed in half.
Corinthian Gun owners are very annoyed at him. He killed 48 people ranging from 8-80 years old and still lives today.
Nope doesn't exist anymore.Hes serving his whole literal life in prison.
Everything you said is true, especially the bit when confused owners traded in ww1 relics that were sectioned (cut up into small pieces)
NukesDaBomb no, actually he was a PM.
Just to clarify you can shoot prohibed handguns at a range if you own them legally, but any prohibed class rifle like an ak or fal you can't take anywhere to shoot it you can only take it to sell it or get it destroyed.
Victor K hahahaha of course you can, but if you get caught your in some real hot water. In some rural areas I've heard police look the other way when farmers carry and shoot handguns on their own land, so I'd assume some people with prohibed guns fire them off on their own land as well and I personally see no problem with that.
Nice of you to come up to Canuckistan and shed some light on the sketchiness of our Gun Laws. Let's not forget Registration for all Restricted class. And up till recently (unless the current government follows through with their threats) we had to have a piece of paper called an ATT (Authorization To Transport) to take all of that Class to the range, Dealer, or Gunsmith. There's also the loosey goosey regulations surrounding magazine capacity. Semi-auto centerfire rifles are, for the most part, limited to 5 rounds (exceptions not withstanding like M1 Garands and you can also get "Pistol mags" for AR style pistols. Pistols are limited to 10 rounds. I may be wrong on this as laws tend to change with little to no notice, but regarding magazines, the capacity is what the mag is designed to hold, not what it can hold. Say, for example ones designed for .50 Beowulf holds 5 of that caliber will hold something around 14 .556/.223 rounds and was (last I heard) legal. As was mags designed for like .40 S&W hold 10 in that caliber but 13 (I think) in 9mm. Again, last I heard, that was legal. One never knows when the RCMP will change things because they never tell you ahead of time. They can also arbitrarily reclassify firearms with no warning. Take the Swiss Arms Classic Green family of rifles. Only a few short years ago thy sought to change those from Non-Restricted/Restricted (depending on barrel length) to Prohibited. Reasoning behind it was because a few that made it to dealers were allegedly Converted Autos thus already Prohibited. So, had that been successful, people would have been compelled to turn them in and, from what I know, no compensation was in the offering. Keep in mind, that brand of rifle comes with a hefty price tag in stock configuration (approx $2000-3000 depending). Okay I'm done. If I'm wrong on any of what I said (possible), feel free to sound off...
I like how in a country with the highest amount of wild predators around restricts what guns you can carry to defend yourself from such predators. if I’m going into bear country I’m at BEAR minimum going to want to have a 10mm semi auto handgun with decent capacity. Good luck having any handgun up there. Ridiculous
I know how!
Politicians has security guards to protect them selfs against anyone or anything so they have no reason to worry about rest of the population. If someone dies by a criminal or predator like a Bear It will not affect the life of any parasite/politician.
As a Canadian I'll put it this way, it's shit
Actually you can get bear spray which is more effective. And you can get a tazer baton in a higher voltage than is allowed on people. But we also have the wildlife to justify such things.
Awesome video guys. One thing to consider is the amount of rounds that can be stored in the mag for the semi's. Well done.
Yeah buddy! As a long time fan, I’ve been secretly hoping you’d make this video for years!
Canadian: You need a rest guy. What do you need an assault rifle for aye?
Me: why do you need to put gravy on french fries?
Why do you need to buy milk in a bag.
Iroquois Plissken
"Aye" ?
Pirate much ?
(The gravy is to hide the cheese)
Scott Boyd I think he meant "eh", eh?
Bagged milk is actually super convenient. Once the bag is empty, it takes up barely any space in your recycling bin even compared to a crushed down milk carton. Also, poutine is incredible and if you've never had it (the proper kind, with cheese curds) you don't know what you're missing.
Iroquois Plissken hey Yank, when I look in my igloo I see an AR 15, VZ 58, Type 81, Type 97, M1A, SVT 40, FN 49, AG42B, whole bunch of SKS 45 and Type 56 carbines. But I don't see any assault rifles anywhere. And the answer to your question is " How else are you gonna melt the curds, eh." Sorry buddy. Sorry.
There is no law stating you can't shoot a Prohibited Firearm. The issue is that the RCMP simply won't issue transport permits for them.
K W Ah so you shoot them in your backyard if it was large enough?
Not unless your backyard is a CFO approved range. And even then, I would imagine the RCMP could come up with a reason you couldn't.
Actually they can. 12.6 prohib owners can transport and shoot their firearms at a range.
@Norbert Kausen That is not the case. 12.6 firearms can be shot at any CFO approved range. 12.6 prohibited firearms are "handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm or less or that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition."
On the restricted side of things could someone please show me the section of federal law that says its illegal to fire a hand gun at a remote place such as your hunt camp in the bush (assuming you have legal possession of it there through an ATT or through the overnight travel provisions accepted by CFOs)? Even the firearms course training manual is careful to quote s. 15 of the Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulation (SOR/98-209) which says that a firearm (it makes no distinction between NR and R) can only be loaded and discharged in a safe place etc. Everyone including the Marstar person in this video says you can only discharge an R at a range. Please, someone please show me. I've looked all over and can't find it.
2 quick additions: first some people can get permits for Open Carry of restricted handguns (usually 10mm automatics, or . 44+ wheel guns) for specific situations, but usually for civilians these are only offered for wilderness defence (ie. bush, pilots trappers etc) when a back up if necessary or size and weight concerns are beneficial.
Secondly, ammo capacity/magazine size: long story short, manual/22 non-restricted rifles, go nuts, get as many rounds as you want. Automatic centrefire rifles, 5 round capacity max, which is funny because they are often just pinned off 30 round magazines for ARs and stuff, so we never have issues with spring tension. Lastly, handguns, can have a magazine as large as 10 rounds (like in new york) but the weird stuff comes in where there are a lot of pistol calibre carbine that take pistol mags (the kel tec sub 2000 or Beretta storm rifles come to mind as popular ones) where they come with pinned 5 round magazines, but you can legally and easily fit in regular 10 round pistol mags. It gets even sillier when we get 10 round LAR STANAG magazines stamped specifically for AR-15 pistols that gives you 10 rounds of .223 in non-restricted rifles that are compatible with Ar magazines.
I urge everyone to read George Orwell's "Animal Farm". It's a small book, doesn't take a long time to read but it's so relevant to what is happening to Canada right now on a federal level.
Now we here in 2020 where Trudeau banned 1500 fire arms based off the name and how they looked, the liberal government did it so carelessly they banned a couple airsoft guns😂😂😂
It would be interesting if you do a general review of how gun laws work for European countries and in which countries can residents own firearms
That would be a long video, 40+ countrys 40+ sets of laws
I wouldn't mind a long video. More gun Jesus the better
Slav Superstar
Finnish short version: one wants to shoot weapons of war? Go do conscription service in military. One doesn't even have to pay for the rifle or munitions. Government pays for those. As well as provides food and boarding. Of course downside is one gets to shoot only when officers shout SHOOT.
Which is fine by me. Got to shoot my unrestricted weapons of war. Been there done that. No more gun cravings.
After one has send orders to, looked and felt battery of 155 mm guns tear havoc in forest, shooting guns for "funniez" is not much of a thing.
There is no European country where residents can not own guns.
In the early 90s I bought a norinco type 87s ( semi auto only rpk ) in Canada with a 75 round drum magazine for under $600 cdn at a gun shop. A few years later Kim Campbell comes along and decides that some guns are " bad " based on how they look. This took place a few years after the polytechnic attack . Thanks Kim.
You should try and do episodes like this while you're abroad, it would be a service for those of us not fully versed in international gun laws to learn either just truly how strict some countries are or how loose some seem to be.
Ian Most Ex British colonies have fucked up gun laws or some variant of the original British laws. .
Before 1932 in Canada (post separation of Westminster meaning technical independence) you can have a gun without a license, however, a person who is foreign needed a license.
So no, we had awesome laws until people became babies
Doug Anderson
"Most"
They should also mention that once you obtain your firearms license here in Canada, you also go through a daily criminal record check.
Wouldn't it just come up on their computer that you have a gun license, if you were taken into police custody for committing a crime?
Doug - Did you say daily? Surely that can't be right. Even with automation, that would keep all the computers and all the IT staff at the RCMP busy all day every day just checking that peeps with PALs keep their noses clean, not to mention all the CFO staff...
I'm inclined to agree with Lazy Jacques; it seems really impractical to try and crunch literally millions of gun owners every single day to make sure they're not on any shitlist with the law. I think they only get after you if you let your PAL expire or you're booked for a felony, and I imagine if a cop pulls you over, they have access to that information if they run your driver's license.
As far as I know, the only time they'll really look at your criminal background check as a precaution is when you're applying for your PAL or renewing it.
It really is daily, and for modern computers it isn't that big of a deal.
it was explained to me by my gun owning friends that the restricted licence gets the daily check, non restricted does not.
This was cool. I really like learning about how authorities deal with overarching systems (self-defense/hunting in this case). I would love to see more of these like when you go to France or England next or even if you get to go to Asia and Australia. I think that could be a really cool Forgotten Weapons series.
Hi Ian, great video.
Do one on Australia. It will make your head spin
He doesn't look at all like they do on South Park! His upper head does not even float above his jaw!
As a Canadian, seeing you Americans allowed to own these cool guns. Makes me wanna become american
You should
Bro, you have free and good healthcare. Great (and often cheaper) Universities and better safety indexes than the US, but you wish to be American due to cool guns? As a Brazilian I need to say that I am jealous of Canada.
@@rodrigocosta3764 bro the US has better collages and universities though but ok
@@bradley8575 Yea, but in general its way more expensive and some get in debt for life
@@rodrigocosta3764 it’s the same thing Canada dude in fact many university tuition in many collages is as expensive as in the states and we have a growing student debt issue
This is gonna need an update...
Thank-You for this Ian.😊👍✌
An interesting tidbit you missed: any pistol in .25 or 32 ACP are automatically prohibited regardless of other features. Why? As far as most can tell it was to prevent a proliferation of Saturday Night Specials. But it means we can't have classic auto pistols like the Colt 1903.
Also restricted guns can be used in competitions - which happen to take place on certified ranges of course.
And up here mare's legs are considered non-restricted rifles.
Otherwise a nice sensible overview without any politics! Our gun laws are strict but not overbearing. A point to keep in mind is that in the US gun ownership is a right - it has to be proven you AREN'T capable of owning a gun to restrict ownership (outside of machine guns and state by state laws). In Canada it's a privilege - you have to prove you ARE capable and pass the courses/checks before you can own them.
My contention with them is that they are inconsistent and often senseless. The prohib category list is a prime example of how inane they are.
Checks?
forgot to talk about the magazine restrictions
Something else I learned recently from buying a present for a friend in Canada, air guns that can shoot over 500fps fall under the non-restricted licence. But you can find many that are tuned to shoot at a max of 495fps, which can be freely bought.
Ian, I'd love to see a French version of this, particularly the process regarding purchasing and bringing back a firearm.
Nice video! Here in Sweden we are allowed to have firearms too (everyone in my village do have a few rifles, and they shoot in their backyard all the time). Sometimes I think people in the USA think that Sweden is some kind of dictatorship and we don't have weapons, but we do :)
I actually thought the Swedish government issued rifles to everyone.
i think it's funny that some people always say canada is some sort of gun control utopia with no guns, but that's absolutely false.
I am happy you are doing this video
Hey Ian! I would love to see you do a video on an 1863 Remington Zouave Musketoon, they're certainly interesting and cool looking. I can't find much info on them besides the standard stuff. It doesn't really matter though, I'll still watch whatever you post lol
*This one didn’t age quite so well..*
Do you think this will be a series? It would be cool to know what other European countries have as law, then I can compare to what we have in the UK
G Yeah, I remember. I was more interested in other European countries and their laws
I changed my comment to make it a bit clearer 😉
G I agree, I think people would be surprised. It's easier than people think to go shooting, especially semi auto .22lr
Dang, wasn't expecting this! Sweet
Very informative. Thanks a lot.
There is some incorrect information concerning prohibited firearms. Prohibited long guns can no longer be taken to the range and are grandfathered to anyone who owned them prior to certain dates (e.g. full
auto prior to 1972). Prohibited hand guns can be owned and sold/purchased by anyone who owned one prior to 1996 AND they CAN be taken to a certified range and shot. The only prohibited handguns that can be passed on to my kids are “military historic firearms” and they can only be passed on one generation and only if the decedent has a permit to own restricted firearms (handguns).
I think I would pass my kids on to America if I were you at this point.
What about gun registration ? Here in Czech Republic every gun is registered to the owner, and cannot be transferred without the state knowing. In US of course nobody gives a crap. So what about Canada ?
Zachary F We had one for a while, but it will not be missed. It didn't do much good as criminals kept using unregistered stolen and smuggled firearms.
DrSid42 Czech guns are some of the absolute Best guns around I own several plus your ammunition is awesome too. That sucks about your gun laws there and by the way we have several states that people’s freedoms are being infringed currently. I wonder how much it will take before there is civil unrest. Anyway hope your situation improves there in the Czech Republic 🇨🇿.
U.S. still has 4473 system. It is more of a recordation than registration but it depends on what state you live in. Some states do require registration yet it has accomplished nothing in stopping crime.
Oh I don't consider Czech system to be bad. I'm 100% for gun registration. IMHO it makes the owner feel the responsibility for keeping the gun safe. It prevents buying gun legally and selling it illegally. It allows for gun confiscation, but that's good thing, as long as it is done with people who only recently became criminals or let's say were diagnosed with serious mental illness.
Besides the fact that you have to have license as an owner, and that you need registration for every gun you have, our system is quite liberal, especially compared to rest of the EU. We have license categories for hunting, sports, collecting, self-defense, job requirement. They all costs extra, but not much, and they all have the same requirements. Self-defense includes conceal carry and is issued on shall-issue basis. People typically request all the categories at once. You have to pass an exam, which consists of law knowledge, safe handling, and even shooting ! You have to hit the target ! It's very close target though, so it's easy, but the safe manipulation is judged during the procedure.
As for guns we can have anything from Glocks to AR-15s. No full-auto obviously, ATM no silencers, and until recently no lasers and lights. In general the government is pro-gun .. it costs them nothing and people are strongly pro-gun with all the terrorism just over the border.
But situation here is very different and hard to compare. We are very safe country, you don't really need to carry, there is little if any gun related crime. Most typical gun owner here is hunter with 1 shotgun and one rifle, followed by enthusiast with few handguns.
Thanks for sharing the Czech perspective! It's always good to hear from people across the pond. As others mentioned, we had a long-gun registry, but that got scrapped so we can buy non-restricted firearms without it being documented past the store's inventory. We also don't really have a limit for how many guns we can own, so it's pretty handy for collectors.
That was such a Canadian response when you were trying to let him plug marstar Canada. Also thanks for the perspective! I've always seen Canada as "NO GUNS HERE" but clearly that's not the case.
You should have said 'not at present'.
I don't think I've seen a 2 days course just for the CFSC. It's usually one day for the CFSC, one day for the CFRSC (restricted). Luckily when I did mine it was before they changed the rules so I could do both in 1 day.
So obviously there are no open ranges for Prohibs so Im assuming it means you need to go to privately owned and operated ranges, and from the sound of it, only a private range on the same premisis as the prohibited license is tied to?
Scott Watrous prohibited pistols can still be brought to a shooting range. Full auto and converted auto rifles can not. We need an authorization to transport restricted and prohibited firearms. The Canadian Firearms Program won't issue ATTs for full auto\converted auto guns
Justin Buchowski
For our Southern Neighbours:
ATT = Authorization To Transport.
Scott Watrous Totally wrong, no such thing as open ranges. All ranges must be approved by the Provincial Chief Firearms Officer, reglardless of firearm classification. You can however use you non-restricted class firearms on private and public land, if that land is located in an area that allows for the discharge of firearms, and all other Federal and Provincial regulations are being followed. (eg, must be unloaded and cased 1/2 hour after sunset until 1/2 hour before sunrise) Approved ranges can be located anywhere. Restricted and prohibited class firearms can only be used on approved ranges. And can only be transported to that range if the CFO issues you an Authorization To Transport "ATT" that class of firearm.
You forgot to mention our wonderful mag caps. 10 for pistols(not so bad), 5 for rifles, and last but not least, 2+1 for shotguns.
J Borg - the 2+1 for shotguns is only when hunting. If I take it out shooting at the range, or for skeet at my farm, I can put as many in as I can (i.e. remove the plug).
Rick Delve its limited to 5 (of whatever length shells its chambered for) for semi autos always though
Yes, you are correct. 3 for hunting(any action), 5 for semi-autos, pump can have as many as they can make it for.
You can totally buy a KSG or a UTAS-15 and enjoy the giant capacity at the range. Pump shotties are way more fun than semi-autos, anyways.
I still have to buy myself a shotgun, but I'm just a sucker for how a pump action feels when racking the slide. It's all personal preference, of course. I'm a range shooter so (hopefully) I'm not going to run into any situations where the Bearstein Bears come to snack.
I've actually heard the UTS (thanks for the correction, btw; I though I might have had that wrong) is entirely better now it's on gen4 and 5, they replaced the failure parts that were plastic with aluminum and it's reportedly a lot more reliable now. Granted, I'd never buy one; I'm probably going to look more towards Mossberg or that one CZ one I had my eye on for a while.
This was a really interesting video, I'd love to see you dive into other notable legalities regarding firearms, including European Union nations (and, perhaps egocentrically, Australia and New Zealand)
This was a very interesting video. I live in Canada and I know that firearm regulations are a mess depending on which province you live in. But this was very instructive, thank you =)
Firearms laws are federal. It doesn't matter which province you're in.
These and my tax dollars being given away are why I wish to become American, you truly are the land of the Free
Thank so for covering our laws. He didn't mention WHO gets to classify our firearms.... the RCMP. That's right, our police write the laws they themselves enforce..... fucked
The RCMP writes and recommends laws, they dont get to pass them.
Corinthian except they fucking can't. Like I just said, the RCMP doesn't make any laws. They recommend laws to the government that then have to be passed. It's literally no different then in any other country, the government has to pass all the laws. There isn't a police state yet, and our gun laws are right about perfect for the sport shooter and hunter, so I'd say things are working just fine.
Corinthian I gotta say, it's ironic to see an American complain of a "one-way ticket to a police state" considering the USA has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world (along with North Korea and Russia), as well as one of the highest rate of killings by police, as well as a great many cities and police departments that get large parts of their funding from fines and property forfeitures for nonexistent 'crimes', and an almost insurmountable bureaucracy and red tape system to get your property back.
In most first world countries that's called corruption, the sort of thing you expect in a third world country.
Then there are small and large US police departments with military gear. Many reckless and irresponsible shootings by police are brushed off by the justice system, which itself has had many prosecutors found to have committed illegal acts yet are almost never charged, fined or disciplined in any way. When one sheriff was convicted of contempt of court for repeatedly ignoring court rulings the sheriff was pardoned by the president. Or there is the disenfranchisement of citizens who are convicted of certain levels of offences even after they have served their time and permanent loss of many government services that practically set them on a course for recidivism.
For profit prisons.
Citizens forced into massive debt for minor fines.
Citizens getting imprisoned for minor fines (debtors prison) even after the US Supreme Court ruled against it.
The NYPD doing 'stop and frisk' on people without probable cause on people who have not committed any crime.
The list goes on and on.
Rusty Shackeford I think Canada's firearm laws are a little bit too stringent (especially the prohibiting of certain models for appearance sake) , but I'll take that over toddlers shooting people on a weekly basis and mass killings every three days.
Corinthian It may seem obvious to me (and you) but it appears to me a lot of your countrymen (or politicians) don't agree. Otherwise, you'd think they would change it. It appears to me to be getting worse rather than better.
Our firearms regulations resulted in some (or lots of) confusion for a while because they were relatively new, basically a huge rewrite, (some of it arbitrary) and when the RCMP began to interpret the regulations some of their interpretations needed to be tested in court. There were some early problems and injustices, and I think the laws in some areas are still to strict or arbitrary, regulations and bans for appearance (politics) sake rather than based on any actual criminal data or data of any kind.
Canada's version of the NRA isn't nearly as strong or well funded, it's not politically powerful at all, it's only real recourse is the courts and that takes time, money and resources. On the other hand Canada's version of the NRA isn't owned by the firearm manufacturers and isn't run by crazy people.
Canada's a long way away from a police state. So far. Check back in a few decades, things can change. We have a parliamentary system which can force big changes very quickly when there are majority governments. The parliamentary system is sometimes referred to as an elected dictatorship. At least when they have strong majorities. The Canadian system can change rapidly when required, but the down side is it can change rapidly in undesirable ways, and laws can ping pong back and forth as governments change. I guess that's (laws ping ponging back and forth) is true of most systems, to a degree.
Thanks Ian!
Good video. Wish we had those Sbs Laws. Ultimate backpacking gun...
What about black powder guns? And black powder handguns? Are they legal?
Yes they are legal. Black powder rifles are none-restricted and black powder handguns are restricted.
So if you can't shoot prohibited firearms anywhere then where have you been shooting their machine guns?
Marstar has both a prohibited license and a range on site.
Jesus man, just go somewhere north in Canada xD As if every inch is populated there. Of course this is a joke.
so if a prohibited license owner also owns a range, they can use it to shoot that firearm... as it doesn't leave the "home" of the firearm?
I'd assume they'd have to get some sort of range licensing also, otherwise you'd get people claiming their back yard is a range.
Would that mean someone with their own prohibited firearms could shoot them at Marstar's range?
Really good video guys and really good information. U should do more video like this in canada there are not alot of knowledge on legal gun owner out there.
6:00 Alas, too late .. we've lost them :(