Project Lightening Episode 07: Conclusions
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- Опубликовано: 6 мар 2019
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Project Lightening is a collaborative series with Othais and Mae of C&Rsenal in which we test all seven light machine guns and automatic rifles of World War One and put them through a series of tests and evaluations. Each week we will be posting one video on Forgotten Weapons and one on C&Rsenal. Today we have the final conclusions, with a series blooper reel posted right now over on C&Rsenal:
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We are so honored to help out! Thank you for all the love! We appreciate you all so much!
I'm gonna suggest that the next Project Lightening be about WW2 submachine guns, because it's been a constant debate as to which one's the best.
Oh yes, please!
MAB 38 vs Suomi
@Buck Berthod I think the Owen is a serious contended, aesthetically lacking as it may be the design is very reliable.
Pretty sure they’ve talked about this in the Q&As. I believe Ian’s answer was the PPS43. Not heavy like a Thompson. Reliable stick mags. More controllable
@@libertytree2538 But that's based on a lot of opinion, not on comparative tests like this. We can see just from this episode how some of the conclusions didn't quite line up with their pre-test assumptions.
Brett DuVale Oh I’d definitely be interested in seeing a WWII SMG test. Maybe the PPS43 would be the initial favorite like the Madsen but end up not coming in first. I do think Ian has more hands on experience with WW2 smg’s than WWI LMG’s so his initial impressions would hold more true.
Hope they do the same with some WWII LMGs.
YES! 100% this!
@@PwntifexMaximus That would be great!
I'd love to see ZB 26 in such test :)
@@jancz357 Directly up against the ZB's son, the BREN. Add a DP-28, and I'll pay money to see that.
Also all about this!
The 30-06 Chauchat lowered the bar so much that it's now a tripping hazard.
😂😂😂😂
I hope you realize the magnitude of your achievement. Nothing short of spectacular, you have enabled thousands of people to gain knowledge, that 20 years ago would have taken an entire lifetime to gather. Thank you all so much for your efforts and dedication.
If you could this with WWII machineguns, it would be amazing.
RobertoDonatti the WWII Project Lightning world be insanely expensive and would need some serious Patreon support as well as another benefactor like Brownells as well as another significant business supporter who is willing to accept honest feedback in the unlikely event that any of the content providers ever review anything they make. Brownells is anything but a perfect company and have some honest detractors. I’m a huge fan because I like some of their retro gear as well as their gun smithing tools but “real” smiths don’t often use their products that doesn’t change their effectiveness for hobbyists which I thinks their “real” target customers. I compare them favourably to KelTec with their innovation but much more consistent with quality although obviously more expensive which for many of us worth it.
John-Paul Silke not only that but if it’s LMGs it also has to be MMGs because the MG-34 and 42 are GPMGs and there were no real LMGs used by the Germans maybe the FG-42 but it wasn’t really designed as an LMG
i agree wholeheartedly.
Bren Rules!
Would be interesting to see the progression in design and function between the two wars.
30.06 cheauchat: "I expected nothing and I'm still let down
The good ol' shit-show
I'm sad it's ending but i enjoyed watching it all. Good work guys 👉
"It's not as insane as you think it is, it just doesn't work." Best thing I've heard in awhile.
10/10 would watch again
+1 Brownells
Not to mention their retro gun line which I’m a real lover of.
Round of standing applause for this project. Even my not so gun enthusiastic family liked this from historical standpoint and they just love you, hosts of the show.
My pensioner, pacifist, librarian mother sends best regards to Mae because "she's amazing and shoots huge machineguns with those boys".
Speaking of Brownells and the Stoner 63...Sorry for mentioning Utopia, guys.
You three are always involved in quality work, so Project Lightening being a success is no surprise to me. I'm looking forward to your next collaboration!
I regularly order from Brownells. Since they've sponsored this project I'll make them my primary place to order gun parts.
I bought about $140 of books, and told them truthfully it was because of this. They had a bunch of stuff I'd heard of, but never found before.
I support the idea of 80s TV Guns!|
Can it 80s hip fire?
Gotta have the Bren Ten.
(Even if Don Johnson's one was chambered in .45 ACP because the blanks were easier to obtain)
Anyone say A-Team?
The popped collar comment shows their attention to detail.
Thank you Forgotten Weapons, C&Rrsenal, and Brownell's
Just sent brownells an email thanking them for their support. Thank you for the amazing series. Now your channels need to make a Lewis gun shirt.
i have really enjoyed this series, its execution is of a very high standard for it not being a professional broadcasting company production. it is proof that youtubers can make produtions that rival documentaries made by people with an almost unlimited access to money and source material.
if you are up to it i would either like to see bolt action rifles of the major powers from WWII or light/medium machineguns of WWII next year
My favourite WW1 machine gun outside of the Maxim designs has always been the Lewis gun. I was stoked to see my suspicions about its performance confirmed again here. It's such a cool gun.
As a sugestion, a competition of anti tank rifles would be awesome. Like t-gewehr vs boys vs lathi l-39 vs solothurn s-18 vs type 97 vs ptrs-41.
@@bmstylee problably. But not impossible. I know that 20mm lathi is reasonable easy to find. And the t-gewehr is not impossible ,since May shorted it. O guess the Soviet and British ammo would be the hardest part.
@@bmstylee makes Sense. If I have a weapon like thst, would certainly like to shoot it every once in a while.
@@major505 I know this is one year late, but 14.5x114mm is more common than 50 BMG. It is used all over the middle east and in asia.
You really want their shoulders to suffer innit
@@bmstylee I know there are quite a few boys anti tank rifles unmodified in australia but are quite expensive.
80s machine pistols would be a great project. You can dress up like Miami Vice characters.
Ohhh yeaaaahhhhhhh some good 4AM watch material. Time to delay bed for another hour.
Indeed
Same
How can you function like that
Since asking for free, i would love to see tests of black powder rifles and machine-guns of the late 19th century, specially those that didn't see ww1 service, or not much anyway, for exaple, in rifles there would be the Murata, Krnka, Beaumont, Beaumont-Vitali, Comblain, Albini, Koka and a Peruvian, and Bavarian designs I can't seem to remember off the top of my head. Or if we talk about machine guns, thing like the Gardener, Nordenfelt and some crank operated french machine guns. The interest stems from the War of the Pacific between Chile, Peru and Bolivia in which all sides used whatever was available from pretty much anywhere. Since then I've been a sucker for black powder metallic cartridge weapons. Anyhow, whatever you decide to do, I'll watch avidly, keep up the good work!
I just rewatched this over Christmas. It's such an awesome series and you all did a great job.
Edit: I have just watched this series for a third time and the only thing I take issue with is that you seem to only have used the flat reload time, rather than shot per second, as a basis for the reload score.
Enjoyed it sooo much that I'm actually a bit worried... :P Seriously, I don't think there's anyone in either channel's audience or the larger audience out there who are into this kind of thing who doesn't desperately want more collaboration between you guys. This is one of the best things I've seen on any screen ever, well done!
Madsen might not be the overall best, but he was active bwfore others(in Russo-Japanese War for example) which in itself makes it VERY interesting.
Active before the others, and after most of them as well!
Still being used in Brazil by police to this day, too.
If you are equipping an army fast and cheap this is your Huckleberry. Bang for the buck, although far from the best.
@@kw9849 except BAR, which had been HCARed recently. Thankfully it was ignored as it was just a plastic case over BAR instead of proper mod.
Thank you for doing this.
Historical arms channels are something that I appreciate your two channels are at the forefront of this content. This wasn't something I ever expected to see two RUclips channels manage to do so it blows me away that you pulled it off. I wish RUclips was a better platform for you, that history on cable still existed, or that some sponsors would come forth and make more of this possible.
To that end, I'm sending an email to Brownell after finishing this comment.
Thanks again Ian, Othias, and Mae for all that you do.
Thank you, Brownell's!
36 people clearly don't appreciate the amount of work they put into bringing us this content that we can enjoy for the low low cost of our time . Anyway I loved this series thank you c and r and Ian
This has been a great series, all the hard work is apparent. Thank you for this amazing collab.
An hour long Lindybeige vid & a hour long Forgotten Weapons vid? In the same morning? Today is going to be a good day!
I have found a kindred spirit!
This was a phenomenal series. It was so nice to see the human response to handling this weapons and the comparing and contrasting in a field that is so regularly just a case of crunching the numbers on official effective ranges and minutes of angle and what not.
Thank you so much for your hard work.
Perhaps a series/collaboration on self-loading rifles. From the 1917 French, the Mondragom, Bang, Liu, Pederson, Garand, G41, G43, SVT 38/40; even the StG44. How they developed. Good features, bad features, how they perform, etc,
Ashley Palmer add a mas-40 (take a mad-49 and only load 5 w clips)
I could listen to you three talk about guns all day long.
Great presentation, great energy, great series overall.
Awesome!
Wonderfull!
Next year:
1) '80 weird
2) '20 and '30 smg
3) wwii lmg, just to see how bad is the Breda 30
Love from Italy!
The entire series was great. I moved a few days after the first two videos, and having this to watch made my new place feel like home quicker than i think it would have without all of you. Thanks again for all the work you did. Much love from northern Ontario.
Great idea 1980s action film guns. It would be awesome to see May in leg warmers and a headband spraying fire from the hip. ;) Thanks Brownells historic test for WW1.
Ian, don't forget that the Lewis also inspired DP-28 and DP-46.
Because both use drums? Bren also had drum as an option as did Vickers K. DP-28 has absolutely different feed system. And you need to remember that ammo plays a huge role in how guns are designed, russians for example have rimmed ammo while germans have rimless so that's why there could never be german ShKAS or russian MG42.
TheArklyte they’re not drums, they’re “Pans”
Ian struggling with admitting the Chauchat isn't quite as good as he wanted it to be. Hehehe...
I'm picturing a black van and Karl joining Ian, Mae and Othias in Project A-Team! 🤣🤣🤣
Your hard work shows, I really enjoyed this series/collaboration. Please do it again! Ww2 smgs seems like an obvious topic but once Othias mentioned 80s guns I was SO IN. Thanks to the entire crew and all their hard work, this was amazing content!
This has been an awesome collaboration and excellent presentation. This has kept me informed and entertained through many miles on the treadmill!
That was an awesome series! Very good work.
An idea for the next project could be the most common guns from the Spanish Civil War. That is an interesting period in history that isn't often discussed.
love the project, would not be surprised to see ian buying his own lewis and doing an updated vid on it.
obvious recommendation is light mg's/auto-rifles for ww2
main combat rifles of major nations during a conflict
smg's of ww2
the service rifle of one nation with it's main rival during it's trial e.g pedersen rifle vs garand
something to do with cold war, imo the majority of history of firearms i see is ww2 back and post cold war but only patches of cold war
Thanks for the content, salutations for your hard work!!
I enjoyed the whole of this series please do another collaboration it was great to see you working together
You guys are so genuine that I am sure most of your viewers see you as trusted friends. Thanks.
The 3 of you make an excellent crew. Skilled, pleasant, methodical, intelligent, entertaining and highly respectable. Thank you for putting together such a great series. I enjoyed it!
This was a great series. Good work, guys.
My first Professor of Military Science (1962) , was a retired LtC. He had been a Supply Officer in the Korean Conflict, when talking about unexpected issues he mentioned BAR bipods. When the troops were in defensive positions they wanted the bipods, when on the offense they lightened the weapon by taking the bipod off and misplacing it. When back on defense they would want another bipod. The unexpected demand caught log-es by surprise and they had to scramble to get more bipods in the pipeline.
I went to ROTC basic in 1963 at Ft. Riley KS, we brought our own M-1s and M-1919s , and M-20 ( 3.5” rocket launcher). We qualified with M-1 and at the time new M-14 rifles; we didn’t shoot the M-1919 or M-20, instead we shot the M-106 recoilless rifle a hoot! We got to qualify with the new M-60 machine gun, very accurate and easy to engage targets with on and off the tripod.
Haven’t thought about stuff in a long time, looks like y’all were having fun even with the scrapes in the paint.
Loved the content, guys! Great to see two of my favorite channels come together for a great show.
ROFL you can tell the Lewis gun is good because the Americans didn't adopt it ahahahahahaha oh man right in the feels
@@robspear03 But lewis gun is from US thats the funny part
America had the greatest lmg of the war that saw limited use called the browning m1917
@@toddfritz2565 Except the Browning M1917 was a HEAVY Machinegun, not a light. At 103 lb for gun, tripod, water (as it was water cooled) and ammunition it was hardly what you could call mobile. Like the Maxim type guns it was used in the HMG role, NEVER as an LMG. The closest the US had to an actual LMG until well into the 50's was the Browning 30 Cal, which was more correctly a Medium Machinegun, and was still rather too heavy for a Squad based machinegun. While superb guns, the 1917 and 30 cal were not good LMG's.
You could not even call it the greatest HMG of WWI, as it would definately share that particular spot with the Vickers...
@@robspear03 Yeah, why adopt something British when you can adopt something French! LOL! *sarcasm*
@@Dick_Gozinya The Lewis Gun is not British. It's an American gun. It was invented here, and we still didn't use it. (Because it didn't come in .45.)
This was a fantastic series. I hope you all work together more often.
Love all of you guys! 2 of my favorite channels on RUclips. Amazing project and sad to see it end.
Awesome content, guys. Love watching this sort of stuff and have followed you both for years. Keep up the amazing work!
Loved the series. This was a fantastic view into history that we would not have other wise. I was happy to pay for the videos and really hope you do it again. I am thinking sub guns from WW2...
A conversation between the wars. British Army: "We've got the best light machine gun, let's ditch it and buy something off the Czechs, let the Belgians and Germans develop it further."
US Army: "We've got two of the worst light machine guns. We're good, we'll just keep the American one and improve it a bit."
This was a truly awesome series. It is amazing to see stuff like this being done. Real research into how these old guns worked. It is an important part of firearms history. Thanks For Your Contributions.
You all did an amazing job! Thank you all so much for making this!
Poor Crozier. Feed him a lot of blueberries, Othais, he must be feeling very guilty and sad ;) ;) ;)
Excellent series. Really hope to see more of this in the future, whatever the guns involved are. Personal preference: WW2 automatic small arms (LMGs and Stg44 in for comparison ;)), but whatever you choose to do I'm sure will be excellent.
wow!!!
All of this because I got involved with THE GREAT WAR, which led me to Othias then to FORGOTTEN WEAPONS
This is a really great collaboration effort! Good work for all involved!
Thanks to all involved. The content was great as usual from both channels. Thanks brownells!
I would love to see this done with the WWII series!!
I am a Continual Brownells Customer .Thanks to All.
You all also understated the Lewis Gun's longevity in future development. It didn't end with the M60. The Imperial Navy eventually would use it as the basis for its T-21 Light Repeating Blaster Rifle.
Truly an amazing design.
I REALLY liked this series! Hope this isn't the last proyect you all do. Many thanks guys. Forgotten Weapons, In Range and C&Rsenal are my favorite gun channels, and watch Ian, Othais and Mae working together, it just warm my heart. Hope we can see you working together very soon!
26:15 Still waiting for that "My Chauchat Runs Wolf" shirt.
Would you please do a 'making of' video? You talk about how much work went into this series, but I'm a tech geek and would love to see just what it takes to do a series like this. Thank you for a great series. It was fascinating to see these gun in action, and compare them to each other.
Jim Vandemoter I second that, it would be awesome to see that
@@BallstinkBaron Of course as soon as I post that comment they put up that exact thing on C&Rsenal. Who woulda thunk it?
Thank you so much for making this series, I loved it!I learned a lot from this and Othias doing the walking fire with the Maxim looked legendary.
Definitely do something like this next year, maybe with WW2 light or sub machine guns
Great series. Thanks for all the work put into it, it was a joy to watch with great shots and infographics. Really hoping to see another from you guys.
So sad it is ending.
Well, don't skip the outtakes. :) ruclips.net/video/19MACwIfPQQ/видео.html
I've watched Mark you are lucky to have a gunsmith like him handy
I sat and watched these back to back on RUclips. Thank you, Ian, Othias, and Mae, for this project. Also, thanks to everyone behind the scenes. I am subscribed to C&Rsenal, as well as Forgotten Weapons. Between the two channels, I have learned a ton of history about weapons in general, as well as in depth knowledge of World War I, thanks to Othias, Mae, and the rest at C&Rsenal. Thank you all for furthering my knowledge, and the history. I would like to see more. Unfortunately, I can't contribute more than words, right now.
Thank you guys. This was a really great video series. I think and hope that we all learned a ton from your and Brownells efforts. This is the definition of living history.
Almost forgot to thank Mark from Anvil gunsmithing. You are great man without you this would not have been possible.
Thank you
I feel vindicated, I have love ed the Lewis since I saw High Road to China many years ago.
for me it was 'Red Scorpion'...
Props, thanks, and love to everyone who made this happen. Now, where can I get a tee-shirt with icons?
Great video series guys! Very fun and cool to see all those rare and cool guns actually being fired!
Thanks for all the hard work and excellent content! One of the best series I've seen in a very long time!
Amazing series, kind regards from France !
Defeinetly exceeded all expectations!
I will be buying more from Brownells moving forward because of their sponsorship.
This was a very enjoyable series that really went deep into the topic, while retaining that practical, detached and professional attitude I've come to expect and enjoy from both Forgotten Weapons and C&R Arsenal. None of the kind of machismo you see with a lot of gun channels, just looking at them as historical artifacts and technical accomplishments, while letting the results speak for themselves and giving some context. Well done.
Thanks to everyone involved for the series. I was very happy to pay for content of this quality. I lost a generation of my family in WW1 (ANZACs), perhaps at the other end of a MG 08 . I now have a far better feeling for what they experienced.
I think you’re aware that 08/15 is now a German phrase meaning average/mediocre
I discussed this with a German friend of mine after watching this series and they confirmed it :)
The meaning of 08/15 in German is more akin to "standard", actually. Of course the standard could be average, but it doesn't have to be.
kyle pennypacker ; It's more like Null Acht / Fünfzehn meaning normal/standard. Even graved Salmon is after ten years every day boring.
kyle pennypacker That’s because they made so may of them, not because of their quality
It was even a saying in the time of WWI. Troops got introduced to captured Vickers MGs, by "Das ist alles 08/15", meaning it works the same. But then it turned around in an ironically way.
2-gun match with Lewis when?
Loved this series/collaboration! Sincerely hope to see more of this kind of collaboration between Forgotten Weapons and C&Rsenal!
I absolutely loved this series. Thank you so much for all the work put in! Hope you guys do more, was awesome!
You know what you guys should do next year is get as many of the smg from wwii. That would be pretty cool.
Absolutely fantastic mini series from two extremely professional gun channels.
Thank you all for doing these videos. This has been one of the most interesting things I've seen on RUclips.
A truly valuable series - nothing else remotely like this on youtube or anywhere else. Thanks so much!
56:17
80s action would be awesome!
And this time, I would give you the money instead of waiting a month.
Great work guys, I 1000% support a "Rad 80's guns" series.
Just binged this series - absolutely fantastic - thanks for doing it! Look forward to next year's.
This series was absolutely fantastic! I really enjoyed it and appreciate all the effort put into it!
I don't think that a canister of Ballistol was standard issue in the trenches.
It could have been, because Germany developed it in 1905.
@@jimvandemoter6961 - Yeah. But he was using it on a Hotchkiss. Well, captured ordinance and all. Could be true. Think the can would be in Prussian Blue, though.
XD
WW2 LMG.... gogogogogogo, would be awesome to compare with this roundup and see the development and improvements
You -- Othias, Mae, Ian & crew -- totally rocked the house with this series! Thank you.
Wow what an awesome and entertaining 7 part comparison series! Loved it! Hats off to Othais, Mae, Ian and all the rest of the crew for putting this all together for everyone out there to see, spectacular! :-)
First awsome work! Next project WW2 SMG and add Karl from inrange. First basic test like in project Lightning and then a few 2 Gun stages.
I'm looking at that rifle rack behind the three.
I'm thinking a similar battery of tests for the main rifles of the period.
SMLE, Mauser, Lebel, Winchester lever action and Mosin Nagant.
Pet interest of mine is the long rifles, so that would be at least an accurate No 1 Mk 3 HT and Pattern 1914 would be two I'd love to see.
Problem with that one is getting everything for it and the scope variety, never mind scope condition.
Pistols of the period? That might work as well. Don't know enough other than Webly and 1911.
@@TheRealColBosch I them fairly well, but a direct comparitive test of usability, capacity, easy of use, rate of fire and other more real world tests across all those rifles?
That does interest me. Is the 10 round capacity and doctrine of use behind it, that impressive next to the other rifles? Are those other rifles capable of being used in a similar fashion? Are there obvious advantages, disadvantages to the platforms, in end user layout for a variety of body types?
I know Mae can shoot well, but can she shoot as well in say..... British training drills, under the clock, of the period?
Which I think Ian might actually ace. Never know unless they actually do it.
Very interesting series! Some surprising results, too! Thank you, everybody involved!
Oh we did enjoy it, thanks for this monumental effort, and I'm looking forward to the next one!Thanks to Brownells, you guys are awesome! And to all the team behind the scenes, you guys rocks.