More like fuck this fed for ruining a good deal on coffee. I could not give less of a fuck that a giant multi million dollar company is losing money from rebounding fraudulent purchases.
john doe well to me the card holder might losing as they might not even be aware of the scam/ don’t know how to deal with it. Besides, banks can also be dickheads in holding the cardholder somehow responsible.
There are multiple losers here, it's not victimless. As liucyrus22 mentions, cardholders often don't notice the chargers (hence targeting the elderly because the cards last longer) so they are paying for the cheap coffee. Even when noticed, the company winds up getting chargebacks and losing money. Theft is theft.
@Eric McManus ypu watched the whole video right? Did you not see the part where she auctioned it all. off? Also she submitted sll her findings, including a complete expense sheet with the accounts she used for the purchases, to the FBI. There's *literally* nothing more she could have done as a civilian.
@@kaeleklund6728 Ted Turner is a nwo nazi that is literally working with the United Nations Bill Gates Gates the WHO to plan the killing of 7 and a half billion people..... don't say that's a conspiracy theory because ita a fact ..... you can watch bill gates eugenics speech or Ted Turner's multiple videos or even read agenda 21 the United Nation's plan of population reduction..... or read the Georgia guide stones.... the fact is that evil exists and the satanists are trying to get rid of everyone else
Was an interesting talk for me until that point. Yet another "Let's give women a helping hand" moment, while men just put their heads down and pound their way through a given problem or goal.
The backwards language detection game is real. I was an ESL instructor for ten years and could guess native language based on handwriting and grammar mistakes
Don't forget to paste the text of the email into google search. Anyone else with cancellations from them may already reported and you can collaborate findings. Possibly get IP addresses, etc.
This talk could have Ebay replaced with G2A, and pods replaced with games and describe an entire website of fraud that continues to run. I started watching this also thinking "victimless crime, insured money, etc" but you make a very good point at the end about the demographic of people taken advantage of. Great video
Very interesting story because I had a very similar experience to her. I built a new PC back in 2012 and was on a super tight budget, so I went overboard on bargain hunting, researching benchmarks, etc. I ordered about half of the parts used or new off of ebay. When filtering by price, you always find suspicious PC parts on eBay with cheap prices too good to be true. When I received my GPU, I noticed two identical units had been shipped. I thought the vendor would have been petrified that they shipped a unit to the wrong destination, but they didn't care. The vendors page ultimately disappeared and I realized I was probably the recipient of goods purchased by a credit card scam identical to the scam described in this video here. I felt really bad but had no idea what to do about it. All I can say today is that I rocked those graphics cards in crossfire configuration and thought my budget PC build was the most badass system for the dollar.
The "guess the writer's first language by their errors" idea is definitely a thing, if you're interested there's a book by Michael Swan called "Learner English: A Teacher's Guide to Interference and Other Problems" that covers some common patterns you see in English learners coming from various groups of first languages Basically the ways you express ideas in one language don't always map to others, so you can end up imposing certain conventions that stand out as wrong or unusual in the target language. Like as an example, in English we use pronouns all the time because "correct English" needs a subject for every verb, but in Spanish they're often omitted because the subject is wrapped into the verb conjugation, and Japanese is so contextual it's common to just have a plain verb because the subject is understood, so it's normal to leave most stuff unsaid If you're not aware of those natural differences in expressing the same idea, you end up doing what feels normal but sounds very specifically weird in those other languages. A tool could catalogue those patterns (like the book does) and then identify which ones are present in a piece of text, to try and narrow down which first language is probably producing them all. Of course a huge chunk of the world's population has more than one first language... 😏
That's pretty neat. And definitely an intuitive thing, which makes me wonder if polyglots would be able to determine a writers origin based on grammar mistakes. I'm sure the panel speaker would be interested in the book you mentioned. Perhaps you could tweet at her? @NianaSavage
This was easily the most interesting point of her talk (the rest was interesting as well, not trying to bash her). An algorithm that can figure out the native speaker's origin based on their grammar mistakes seems like something that's very feasible to create now that AI language has improved so much. At least it should be able to narrow it down to language families. And this helps not just with detective work but English lessons themselves would improve if they pre-empted the common mistakes speakers of a certain language make when trying to learn English.
Interesting, the part where you mention that english uses pronouns all the time and other languages don't, it explains why as spanish speaker is weird refering to the pronoun so often when I write english
@@Trazynn I agree. I am not a native English speaker and writer, and I find myself making the same grammatical error repeatedly when composing emails and posting comments online. And I've noticed that I make these mistakes because I am visualizing the English words in my head as how I would visualize my native language when I speak in it. I hope that made sense. 😂
@@Seth9809 wow, first time i've heard about this, i'm not trolling i swear, but i thought a company the size of amazon would have something in place to stop something like this, they're not a bedding website after all.
they probably got away with it as there's no way to prove that they are stolen unless reported(but i guess she did report them, but is it even worth the trouble to them to criminally charge random internationals?) they probably backed off because either they temporarily ran out of stolen cards or they noticed that they kept selling it to the same address which would have made nespresso look into her, thus her leading them to ebay and then possibly getting caught. They've probably moved on to other products or different kinds of scams
As someone working in fraud detection, it's basically not something customer service is supposed to handle in most companies and the money mule has any influence on. In most cases the company will a at some point notice a large amount of credit card chargebacks and then either increase security measures to prevent this (pretty good options there, but they will likely block some perfectly legal purchases too) or adjust their pricing to account for loses. Given that Nespresso capsules and some machines are sold at a massive markup they'll likely choose or already have chosen that option.
Machines in such cases are often sold at zero profit or even loss. It's like printers - buy a cheap printer and then buy cartridges that they have huge margins on.
I suspect Nespresso is involved with reporting the Ebay accounts. Buyers certainly aren't going to report them. Ebay seller has no reason to abandon an account each time a stolen card stops working... the cards are in no way connected to Ebay, they would just switch cards and keep rolling. Nespresso probably has a handful of people engaged in brand protection, reporting suspect sellers on Ebay. And thus why the accounts get banned in about 2 weeks. In this endeavor, Nespresso also doesn't particularly care if they accidentally target a legitimate account. It has no effect on their bottom line.
Only some pods are recyclable and Nespresso wants club membership to their recycling program. Compostable would be better, though a technical challenge. Less energy due to smaller quantity. Heating the water remains the biggest power consumption. Specific heat capacity of water remains 4.187 J/g
@@happyfase Its not the pods that are the problem. It's all the other shady stuff that Nestle does, like refusing to reduce pumping for their bottled water operation in California in the middle of a drought, despite the fact that they only pay a few hundred dollars per million gallons for the water rights. Or refusing to commit to ethical sourcing for the palm oil that they use to make all their chocolate.
18:15 - Did you try contacting Visa or MC ? I would bet they'd get VERY interested in your investigation. Good job lady. I admire your level of ethic. If we were all like you this world wouldn't be in this mess.
My credit card once got charged for something I did not buy and what was sent to someone else.I was contacted by my bank, got my money back and asked if they investigate it. As far as I can remember they told me that they won't.Pretty sure this got handled by the insurance and wasn't worth the effort to hunt down the frauds.
I’ve contacted them before about fraudulent activity on eBay. Specifically, I was selling Apple TV a few years ago. I would get people with new accounts buying the product and shipping to shady strip mall addresses or drop shippers. A few weeks later I would get PayPal notices that the card used was stolen and I had to prove that I shipped the item. I would include the tracking ID number and the case would be closed and I could keep my money. I started experiencing almost a 50% fraud rate in selling these devices. I contacted EBay and PayPal and they didn’t care. I actually contacted the CC company a few times and they didn’t care either. One person told me if the stolen amount wasn’t more than $10,000 it wasn’t worth their time.
It could also have been last year's model (or one just about to be replaced in their product line-up) and they were being sold at a discount to clear warehouse space, using eBay so that it doesn't seem like they're basically dumping them onto the market.
Drop shipping doesn't necessarily mean it was fraud. The person you ordered it from may have had a coupon or promo offer that allowed them to pay less for the item than you did. They could have had access to wholesale pricing.
Absolutely. Check out their prohibited items list sometime, and then realize that those prohibitions exist because multiple people sold those things on eBay.
MrLeovdmeer not really.. there isn’t a clear chain of custody.. and departments in a corporate entity isn’t all that efficient.. could be months before anyone does their job. As long as some action was taken there isn’t much that can be done.
Yeah so this is what I don't get: Isn't ebay terrible for the scammer in terms of opsec? You have to have a real bank account registered with your paypal, right? Isn't it all easily traceable?
12:24 - This is not true. You cannot report a _transaction_ as fraudulent if you received the item, but you can go to the listing page and click the "report item" link, which will then give you the option "Listing practices -> Fraudulent listing activities" and "Listing practices -> Stolen property". I have no idea if eBay actually does anything about it, but the option _does_ exist. 9:51 - Also, seller rating (for both new and old accounts), a.k.a. feedback, is shown right next to the seller's name, in the "Seller information" box (which she cropped out of her screenshots...). It's obviously not the same as the _product_ ratings, which are clearly labelled with the words "product ratings". Makes me wonder if she's using some special version of eBay, or just lacks basic observation skills.
I could listen to Nina Kollars stories every day. Nina if you want to leave the dark side of the military industrial complex, you could have a new career as a raconteur.
About "victimless": Even if it is NOT the elderly, and people just "charge back" the fraudulent charge, that is roled into the REGULAR price as "cost of doing business". This type of fraud is completely rampant in digital transferable goods like game keys, there often the actual vendor (in this case nespresso) can really get into trouble due to chargeback fees.
What do you mean "moralizing"? The fact of the matter is that in the Video game context the only thing the companies can do is to not process credit cards at all, or with a delay (that customers don't appreciate), or slam the "breakage" on the price for valid customers. At the core it is a security issue with credit cards, which the banks don't want to fix (as they just relegate the cost onto the vendors) nor the card holder (because they can initiate chargebacks relatively easy)
Technically, eBay isn't getting any of the dirty money. The fraudster is buying products from a company with the stolen cards and sending it to the mule. The mule sends their clean money through eBay. Though I wonder how they will react when this goes past their feeds. A federal agent is noticing this? Maybe they can bribe her with coffee. It looks to be working so far.
@@mattstorm360 Define "dirty money". I mean, yes... Ebay is on the laundered side of the equation, and thus keeps all of it. As OP said. The transaction is still fraudulent.
@@APsupportsTerrorism Dirty money as in the stolen money that's about to get charged back from the legitimate retailer back to the cc company / cc owner.
ebay allows certain sellers to block this sort of thing. I ordered a sim card that was advertised many times over as doing X, and even said that "while some people claim it doesn't do X, they've never provided proof" - and then have the ability to send proof, blocked. It's cute. But hey, my sim card still works, i just had to buy $500 worth of hardware over the course of 2 years to use it :-D
Seller doesn't need to ask to cancel an order. They can just cancel the order and click "by buyer request" or "item was lost or damaged" or "there's a problem with the buyer's address".
Okay, I'm missing something. They create a scam credit card using someone stolen info. I got that part. Some of these posts talked about using the CC to buy stuff for themselves. But why the ebay thing with a third party? How does this help them?
On ebay the mark pays cash (paypal) for their goods, which the seller/ scammer pays for with stolen credit cards. So, this process converts the credit on the card into cold hard cash.
While Paypal is quite cold and hard, they still have to get the cash off Paypal, which means there will be a link to the actual fraudster's bank account. Or they'll have to use that Paypal credit to buy stuff they actually want, which again will link to a real address. Basically, if Paypal and the credit card company really want, they _can_ trace the money.
@@RFC3514 That's the part I don't understand. Do they eventually buy products or goods and sell them in person or something? Seems like so much work to get currency.
17:15, ive heard all the rest before, but ive never heard someone come up and say it like u did! My mom, poor lady, shes gone through the nigeriaan thing on the net, but i am with you 100% the majority of the fraud is targeted at the elderly! we need a system to help stop those attacks!
Take a look at 419eater. They're a forum specifically dedicated to messing with these guys and reporting their stolen bank accounts/credit cards/etc. They'll even match you up with an experienced scambuster to show you how it's done. There's "trophies" to put in your signature depending on whether you bust someone for a fake bank account, credit card, or website...and if you get them to travel!
10:00 - One would only think that if one lacked the ability to read. Those stars are clearly labelled "product ratings" and are (surprise!) the user ratings for that product (not "a generic review of what people think of Nespresso coffee"). Seller feedback (for all accounts) is clearly displayed next to the seller name, inside a box labelled *"Seller information"* (in bold), which she cropped out of her screenshot. It is *not* "near the bottom in a tiny font". It's also pretty trivial to report fraud and stolen property on eBay; there's a link in the product page labelled "Report item" with those exact options in its sub-menu. Amazing how she spent all this time "investigating" these fraudsters and calling the FBI but was unable to find that link, which is on every single listing page on eBay. Good thing she doesn't work as a military strategist or anything like that... Also, "an Nespresso"? Really?
An algorithm that is able to spot the original language by grammar and spelling mistakes would be huge. Not just for detective work but also for educational purposes. You could start fine-tuning English lessons to each native language as they all struggle with their own obstacles.
It seems like it would be an easy thing to train an AI to do (you'd just have to feed it a lot of examples). I'm not sure how wide the margin of error on the final original language guesser would be though.
It would be mostly useless, because: a) Fraudsters will generally just copy & paste strings from other sellers, and not write anything original that could be traced uniquely to them, and b) Most errors that people associate with foreign eBay sellers are actually errors in common translation apps (like Google Translate); it's not the user struggling with English, it's the app translating idiomatic expressions literally.
@@RFC3514 Google translate would still be making different errors based on different languages.
5 лет назад+2
If someone sends you something TO YOU and you did not order it (here in the US), by law you are allowed to keep it and can NOT be held liable to pay for it - it's a federal law to keep scammers from just sending you something and then demanding you fork out an inflated price to pay for what was delivered. OP in this video did NOT have to send beck the unit. She could have kept it and nobody could be able to charge her for it.
I work for a company that sells Nespresso products, which is why this first caught my eye, but I never expected someone to be using their pods to run that kind of scam.
In the United States, Receipt of stolen property is a federal crime- as it is in most other countries. Therefore, by not even having a 'Report' option, Ebay is actively participating in criminal activity and should be shut down.
4:30 She didn't report the fraud to the correct authorities, as she is well aware. Keeping the machine means she will buy the expensive pods. This is how the misic industry got the majority of people to stop buying vinyl records and cassette tape using marketing propaganda. A Federal Government Agent openly on a recruiting drive. How many were immoral and unethical and got recruited?
My sister gifted me her old Pixie when she bought a Dolce Gusto machine. It leaks a bit of water and such, needed some cleaning of the coffee residue on the spout, which due to some easy to correct design flaws means taking it wholly apart. Store brand pods and refillables for us, thank you very much. I would hesitate to buy food products from eBay, on account of chinese counterfeits of such.
At the root of this hypothesized fraud scheme is not simply elderly victims of identity theft. These victims are in an unrecognized but significant demographic of crime victims. They are "defendant adults" or those who are able to function and survive with assistance yet without that assistance; they are not able to manage. Now obviously those persons involved in assisting or entrusted with the responsibility to assist them, have simply assisted themselves with their clients assets or good name (credit).
Years ago my working collegues bought a Nespresso machine directly from Nespresso. They also bought so much coffe (from Nespresso, not via ebay) that they got a new machine for every 1000 pads or so they ordered (i could be wrong about the exact number, but it was surprisingly low to me). So keep in mind that the few 100 $ or € they want for the machine aren't what the thing actually costs them. Also if you get a new machine, you will keep using it and buying new coffe (with which they make the real money)
Nice job but she fails to explain why the eBay sellers send the extra items. The buyers would have been satisfied with what they ordered at the right price. She thinks maybe a clerical error, but it happened a few times.
Because they wan´t to increase sales, therefore to bind every customer by satisfiying him, which works perfectly with extra items. They just have the advantage that they needn´t to pay for the extra items, since the creditcard owner does.
Funny. If I did that over here, the police would come and confiscate the items I bought. No such thing as bona fide or in good faith here. I might in fact even be charged for knowingly purchasing stolen goods if it's considered to be obvious. Too low a price is enough.
the tool she's describing, one that looks at english text and tries to guess the native language (by observing the grammatical errors, sentence structure etc.) does in fact exist, its an open question in the field of natural language processing, called Native Language Identification, or NLI.
Who pays here? Card owner would have reported the fraud and been fully refunded by their card provider. Does the card provider (bank) suffer the loss? No, they are covered by Visa, Mastercard etc. But does Visa or Mastercard suffer the loss, or are they insured against it and an insurance company covers the loss? I'm curious who actually pays? I know in the end the consumer will pay because any loss will flow back into the price a consumer is charged for a credit card in interest or fees. But at what key points and from which company is money flowing back to the consumer to cover the fraud?
The credit card companies recover the money from the vendor plus a charge-back fee (if the card holder notices and initiates one).So the vendor is incentivized to not inform the card holder on their own, because that means they have to give the money back+ the charge. They are also not interested in recouperation even IF there was a charge back, because the whole thing is calcualted as breakage, and included in the pricetag for regular customers. (Tells you something about profit margin, though). Other vendors where the profit margin seems lower, or the chargeback fee rivals the individual sales volume (indy computer games), there the vendors are making a bit more of a noise in terms of CC security and how that really hurts them.
@@brendanfarthing which is why she made a point to say most victims were elderly. they very likely do not notice suspicious charges and might just eat them up
Actually, that just sends a message to the seller asking for a refund (if the seller doesn't reply within 3 days, then it goes to eBay customer service). The options she wanted are under "report item" (in the item listing itself, not in her purchase history) and are labelled "Listing practices -> Fraudulent listing activities" and "Listing practices -> Stolen property". Those get sent directly to eBay (not to the seller).
@@RFC3514 seems super convoluted and not (avg) user friendly. They should have a link on every listing or in every email sent, after confirmed purchases, to report fraud. They are making their cut on these listings so Ebay dgaf.
It's not convoluted at all, you're reporting *the item* not the transaction, so you report it from the *item page,* not your transaction history (the latter has a link to the former, anyway, so if you want to start from there it's just one extra click). The link itself could be a bit more visible, but it's in the right page. It also allows people to report fraudulent listings _without_ buying the item.
@@RFC3514 i don't think it's the right place. you don't know that it's a fraudulent listing in this case until you receive it. and they may remove the listing leaving only the transaction
@xybersurfer - The listing page is always available for transactions that have been concluded, so that you can check it after you receive the item (otherwise they could just send you something different, remove the listing, and tell you it had been your mistake). Just open the *item* page and click "report item". This would also have allowed her to report the other "suspicious sellers" _without_ playing along with (and benefiting from) the scam herself. She could then check whether or not eBay removed those listings and closed those accounts. There are several other... let's call them "untruths" in this video, so either she has extremely poor observation skills or she decided to misrepresent things deliberately to blame eBay. The way she cropped the whole "Seller Information" panel out of her screenshots makes me suspect the latter.
Because convenience. Doesn’t impact them directly. Saves time. The more developed a country, the more service and convenience focused it becomes. Less about survivability and sustainability. Environmental conservation has to be made easy/convenient for people really adopt it. Tech and scientific advances are there to make things faster better cheaper. Aka preserving the one currency that can never be renewed or replaced. Time.
I saw some suspicious listings on eBay before, and it makes so much sense after this video. I set a search notification a few months ago for this particular monitor I wanted. A few days later, I started getting dozens of too-good-to-be-true deals from brand new sellers for exactly the same monitor. I stayed far away out of caution, but I'm thinking it was exactly what happened in this video.
Ok, so who was defrauded? Did someone defraud nesspresso by hacking Nesspresso, sending her an extra item. Then claim that they never got their item. Resulting in a charge back to an account the seller made up?
@Mister Donkey maybe! Didn't you hear the speaker also say Fraud? Who's ID theft hers? Nesspresso's ID or account info from Nesspresso? You don't understand what I've been asking. Who was defrauded and how it works? The speaker got what she payed for plus more but I'm ASSuming that Nesspresso's ordering system was hacked and tricked.
@Mister Donkey Go fuck yourself! Listen to her story again! You wrote a bunch of words with bad grammar and missing a S here and there. So you just negated your attempt at sounding intelligent, which you are not! I asked a few different ways, a simple question and you couldn't answer it. Don't respond anymore.
@@kurtstergar1042 the middle man stole someone's credit card but instead of buying stuff with it creates a store on Ebay that sells stuff from another company (Nespresso) without having to touch any inventory (dropshipping). Ebay cuts him a check minus ebay fees and voila $$$ good old hard cash, instead of having to buy and sell stuff with the stolen card/identity.
@@Frank-pj2tb thank you. I was thinking it was something along those lines. But the thing I don't get is how the drop shipper was able to sell the items for half price to the women telling the story. When Nesspresso sells the items for full price from their site. Are these items from Nesspresso getting close to there extaration and they work with drop shippers to make some profit and get rid of the items? Damn this women's investigative curiosity is contagious.
@@kurtstergar1042 I think scammer pays full price with stolen credit card and sells cheap to undercut other sellers on ebay. His stuff sells quicker and it's still 100% profit since he's not paying with his money.
dang, sorry i missed out on the bid for that espresso machine! wish i had seen the vid sooner! no worries though, u for sure did ur part in it trying to get to the bottom of it, way way more than i can say for most, mad props to you! respect you tons!
I was really waiting for the plot twist in end where the speaker would say.. "It was Nespresso all along, setting up third-party sites and offering the machine and other incentives for free because they knew that once you had a machine in place (or if it was given away) that machine would create another profit Center in someone's household and in the long run their data suggests nespresso makes more money that way over the long run..." Guess I was wrong
You would think Nespresso would have marked her address as receiving fraudulent products and at the minimum not ship to her only less this happened so fast the stolen cards weren't reported stolen yet.
@@huma474 no the credit card companies will refund the money to the persons card that was stolen since the items were purchased fraudulent so Nespresso loses. She sent real money to the person that used the stolen credit cards. So the fraudulent person isn't out of money and she got her product + other items.
@@dco5055 The fraud refunds would only happen if the person who had their card stolen contacts the credit card company within a reasonable time after the purchase clears - 30 to 60 days. Given that these card numbers appeared to be related to retirees per what she said there is a very good chance that they might not see the fraud charges before it becomes to late to be actioned on, leading to everyone walking away. Nespresso is working from a place of apathy and partial good faith (partial because things should have been flagged the moment she made the first call). They want to keep the money and not look too hard at where its coming from because if they see something they must do something.
Nestle is known for indirectly killing people for profits and being shady whenever it gets them more money...you can bet they knew full well what was happening, and the profit margin of their stupid coffee capsules alone would easily pay for the few refunds.
They use the credit card they obtained using identity theft from a third person (as shown on the triangle). This third person may not even know there is a credit card in their name using their stolen identity or that their identity was stolen to obtain it. So they will be charged with not paying the credit card bills in the end if their address is used as well (but if the fraudster is smart, the stolen identity will be used to establish other addresses and residenties so that the person whose identity was actually stolen won't be aware of even that and then just innocently gets listed on some wanted list once crimes are being reported).
dont forget to also use those plastic handled single use bits of floss... im not particularly concerned about the environment but those are just disgusting to me
u can recycle the aluminium from the capsule and the coffee gets turned into fertiliser. The information ur using is old, when capsules first came out they were very unsustainable but they've come a long way. Compared to barrista coffee cups its actually a very sustainable way to consume coffee.
@@andrewbell6855 what about the capsule itself? Aren't they still plastic and hard to recycle? There are coffee machines that take whole beans. If you need your coffee fix, why not buy one of them instead?
So this makes me wonder the lifespan of the fake accounts. If they're about 30 days, then if you ordered the product about two weeks into the process, received your stuff, then 2 weeks later the account goes dormant, open a damage claim and get a refund from EBay/PayPal I'm just brainstorming and not suggesting anyone take advantage of a broken system where someone could have had their identity stolen. I've witnessed larger issues with Pre-Order items where the estimated release date isn't even for 3 or 4 weeks yet, the "seller" takes all the money and just poofs away, maybe sending product to the first X pre-orders but then just ghosting the rest, money in hand.
I've been caught in these before. Buying something on ebay that clearly is using the same graphics as amazon but is a steal in price, and having two show up. Absolutely frustrating that you can't get it resolved. It's 100% money laundering by being the unwitting participant trading your clean cash for some trivial good of which is actually paid for by some stolen means.
@@entox. How is it warranty fraud? The scenario I'm thinking of is when a giftcard is received via the FBI/IRS payment scam or they obtain a skimmed CC and the scammer needs/wants to convert that into reportable cash. They list some item on Ebay and when the unwitting participant purchases the relisted product, they simply purchase it from a throwaway/bot-created amazon account and send it to the ebay purchaser as a gift. In this case it seemed like it was a skimmed CC or a CC opened via identity theft of seniors and the scammer needed to convert that dirty credit into cash. The warranty fraud I'm thinking of is when you convince some retailer that you own a product of theirs that has broken under their warranty and you request a replacement where they send you a new product and you return the old product in the same packaging. I'm a bit confused on how one would manage to convince Nespresso that their coffee pods have broken under warranty...
It is clear from the letter they moved to a different product because either Nespresso got wise or they were staying one step ahead of the law. They also wanted to stop sending this one address product.
How do the scammers securely withdraw the money though? As far as I know, their info should be readily available if they use paypal. What am I missing here?
The stolen cards aren't connected to the seller in any substantive way. Remember the card isn't used to pay for anything on eBay, its used to buy product from Nespresso web site and send it to the dupe customer. The eBay transaction is separate between buyer and seller. Only the seller knows the two transactions are related. What customer sees: Order at a cheap price, get real product. What eBay sees: Customer orders something, pays, doesn't complain about any problem with product. eBay gets their cut of the sale. Seller withdraws cash from eBay PayPal. eBay can't tell anything is wrong, they got paid, customer is happy, seller is happy. What Nespresso sees: Same stolen CC (detected when CC chargebacks happen) used to buy large amounts of products from their web store, but all shipped to dozens of different customers. Which one is the thief? Just the person who used the CC, who they don't know.
@@JeremyLevi oh god dang it you're right! I suppose the FBI could track them down if they really wanted to, but they'd have to have all parties cooperating
@@Synochra Basically. It's not like they couldn't be tracked down, but the cost is high to very high (depending on the scammers' opsec) if they're domestic, and pretty much sky high if they're operating from a foreign non-cooperating country.
I wonder how this is working: I am ordering Stuff from "Joe", "Joe" is using a Credit Card from "Jane" to order Stuff from Nespresso, delivered to my Address. Now, somehow, I am the "guy who do the business" by using a stolen CredCard - My Shipping Address has entered, for Nespresso, only me and "Jane", who "Use the CredCard" is seeable. Shouldn't they claim the Goods back after the Credit Card debit get cancelled? (Sorry for my bad english, it is not my native language).
It works more like that: 1. Buyer orders from fraudster and pays legitimate. 2. Fraudster orders from a legitimate shop, giving them the buyers adress as shipping adress, using stolen credit card information. 3. Buyer gets item, fraudster gets cash from buyer, shop gets money from creditbank. Now, if the person who´s creditcard information was used noticed the payment and calls the bank, they would usually inform the police which should try to get the fraudster, who most likely will already have burned the ebay account and opened a new one. The Shop has already got the money, the buyer has already the item, the damage is done to the creditbank or the creditcard holder.
meranger92 or like the lady in the video said, often it’s the elderly who’s credit card numbers are stolen and they either don’t notice the fraud or don’t know how to handle it and they become the ultimate victim.
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This is why I love DEFCON: intellectual curiosity, figuring out why something happens instead of accepting it and moving on.
More like fuck this fed for ruining a good deal on coffee. I could not give less of a fuck that a giant multi million dollar company is losing money from rebounding fraudulent purchases.
john doe well to me the card holder might losing as they might not even be aware of the scam/ don’t know how to deal with it. Besides, banks can also be dickheads in holding the cardholder somehow responsible.
There are multiple losers here, it's not victimless. As liucyrus22 mentions, cardholders often don't notice the chargers (hence targeting the elderly because the cards last longer) so they are paying for the cheap coffee. Even when noticed, the company winds up getting chargebacks and losing money. Theft is theft.
@Eric McManus Pssst, all the stuff got auctioned off at Defcon, she did not keep it. Proceeds went to charity.
@Eric McManus ypu watched the whole video right? Did you not see the part where she auctioned it all. off? Also she submitted sll her findings, including a complete expense sheet with the accounts she used for the purchases, to the FBI. There's *literally* nothing more she could have done as a civilian.
I just clicked to find out what an nespresso money mule is...
and it blew your mind.
Turns out it's just someone with an eBay account
I thought it would be about someone smuggling something more potent than coffee.
This is click bate sponsored content fed doxing right there .
I put this video off for weeks because the phrase 'an Nespresso money mule' irritated me that much.
It's like TED style storytelling, but with actual content 👌
um
Except that Ted is propaganda of the worst kind
Surprise, she also has a TED talk
@@jolllyroger1 what kind is that
@@kaeleklund6728 Ted Turner is a nwo nazi that is literally working with the United Nations Bill Gates Gates the WHO to plan the killing of 7 and a half billion people..... don't say that's a conspiracy theory because ita a fact ..... you can watch bill gates eugenics speech or Ted Turner's multiple videos or even read agenda 21 the United Nation's plan of population reduction..... or read the Georgia guide stones.... the fact is that evil exists and the satanists are trying to get rid of everyone else
The auction ended up at $120 in case you were wondering
fly away captain..
Thank you, random internet person!
I actually came to the comments just to figure out how much it sold for. Thank you much!
Lol I needed to know this
Was an interesting talk for me until that point. Yet another "Let's give women a helping hand" moment, while men just put their heads down and pound their way through a given problem or goal.
Not what I expected from a DEFCON talk, but really interesting anyway! Speaker was great.
Yeah she's really charismatic.
It is also a very interesting scheme.
I thought that this was a great talk. She wanted to stop scammers.
@@thtrnerd221 I think she lost a lot of sleep over this...
@@charstringetje With that much coffee in her system she should have.
Fraud is fraud.... it works with cars just as good as coffee makers ; )
I have no idea how I ended up here, but this was very interesting and I'm glad I hung around till the end.
Me too.
The backwards language detection game is real. I was an ESL instructor for ten years and could guess native language based on handwriting and grammar mistakes
Don't forget to paste the text of the email into google search. Anyone else with cancellations from them may already reported and you can collaborate findings. Possibly get IP addresses, etc.
@@isettech Exactly what I was thinking
I recall a story of a Russian girl who often asked for "for of X" and kept being baffled when she was offered 4 of the thing.
Speaker has a lot of energy, its like shes been slaming a lot of coffee
ba dam tsss
embrs probably slamming the espresso martinis
@Lucas Maupin She went like Fry halfway through this speech and put out a fire and saved the building when time froze.
I believe the term is "butt chugg"
Not just coffee - *Nespresso! which you can find on America's Marketplace(tm) Ebay!
This talk could have Ebay replaced with G2A, and pods replaced with games and describe an entire website of fraud that continues to run. I started watching this also thinking "victimless crime, insured money, etc" but you make a very good point at the end about the demographic of people taken advantage of. Great video
Really interesting about what we consider "victimless" fraud, this was a really great talk
This was the best ad I have ever seen for a Nespresso listing on eBay!
Very interesting story because I had a very similar experience to her. I built a new PC back in 2012 and was on a super tight budget, so I went overboard on bargain hunting, researching benchmarks, etc. I ordered about half of the parts used or new off of ebay. When filtering by price, you always find suspicious PC parts on eBay with cheap prices too good to be true. When I received my GPU, I noticed two identical units had been shipped. I thought the vendor would have been petrified that they shipped a unit to the wrong destination, but they didn't care. The vendors page ultimately disappeared and I realized I was probably the recipient of goods purchased by a credit card scam identical to the scam described in this video here. I felt really bad but had no idea what to do about it. All I can say today is that I rocked those graphics cards in crossfire configuration and thought my budget PC build was the most badass system for the dollar.
This happened to me, I ordered a Russian bride and receive 2 Brides,a 73 Lada and a RPG Launcher
so you're the one that ruined it for the rest of us.
Hey, I think they sent you my wife! Please send back to me
Yeah, when virgin Russians go to heaven there's 72 Ladas waiting for them
@@fetB you did not understand the triangle thing: some one else had to pay for the RPG launcher and did not get one :(
Some dude in Ukraine is on the phone to eBay asking where the heck is rocket launcher is...
Entertaining talk, and I learned about a fraud scheme I hadn't heard of before
The "guess the writer's first language by their errors" idea is definitely a thing, if you're interested there's a book by Michael Swan called "Learner English: A Teacher's Guide to Interference and Other Problems" that covers some common patterns you see in English learners coming from various groups of first languages
Basically the ways you express ideas in one language don't always map to others, so you can end up imposing certain conventions that stand out as wrong or unusual in the target language. Like as an example, in English we use pronouns all the time because "correct English" needs a subject for every verb, but in Spanish they're often omitted because the subject is wrapped into the verb conjugation, and Japanese is so contextual it's common to just have a plain verb because the subject is understood, so it's normal to leave most stuff unsaid
If you're not aware of those natural differences in expressing the same idea, you end up doing what feels normal but sounds very specifically weird in those other languages. A tool could catalogue those patterns (like the book does) and then identify which ones are present in a piece of text, to try and narrow down which first language is probably producing them all. Of course a huge chunk of the world's population has more than one first language... 😏
That's pretty neat. And definitely an intuitive thing, which makes me wonder if polyglots would be able to determine a writers origin based on grammar mistakes.
I'm sure the panel speaker would be interested in the book you mentioned. Perhaps you could tweet at her? @NianaSavage
This was easily the most interesting point of her talk (the rest was interesting as well, not trying to bash her). An algorithm that can figure out the native speaker's origin based on their grammar mistakes seems like something that's very feasible to create now that AI language has improved so much. At least it should be able to narrow it down to language families. And this helps not just with detective work but English lessons themselves would improve if they pre-empted the common mistakes speakers of a certain language make when trying to learn English.
cactustactics it’s clearly a google translation flop. They spoke their language and let google do the rest
Interesting, the part where you mention that english uses pronouns all the time and other languages don't, it explains why as spanish speaker is weird refering to the pronoun so often when I write english
@@Trazynn I agree. I am not a native English speaker and writer, and I find myself making the same grammatical error repeatedly when composing emails and posting comments online. And I've noticed that I make these mistakes because I am visualizing the English words in my head as how I would visualize my native language when I speak in it. I hope that made sense. 😂
Hey, why you trying to ruin Ebay's bread and butter... They thrive on scams.
Huh, Amazon has a problem where people order computers, say you forgot parts, and ship back the computer with parts missing, then rate you 1 star.
@@Seth9809 wow, first time i've heard about this, i'm not trolling i swear, but i thought a company the size of amazon would have something in place to stop something like this, they're not a bedding website after all.
AWS also hosts most modern web scams.
they probably got away with it as there's no way to prove that they are stolen unless reported(but i guess she did report them, but is it even worth the trouble to them to criminally charge random internationals?) they probably backed off because either they temporarily ran out of stolen cards or they noticed that they kept selling it to the same address which would have made nespresso look into her, thus her leading them to ebay and then possibly getting caught. They've probably moved on to other products or different kinds of scams
@@Seth9809 Amazon is actually hinkier than Ebay. Scary.
As someone working in fraud detection, it's basically not something customer service is supposed to handle in most companies and the money mule has any influence on. In most cases the company will a at some point notice a large amount of credit card chargebacks and then either increase security measures to prevent this (pretty good options there, but they will likely block some perfectly legal purchases too) or adjust their pricing to account for loses. Given that Nespresso capsules and some machines are sold at a massive markup they'll likely choose or already have chosen that option.
Machines in such cases are often sold at zero profit or even loss. It's like printers - buy a cheap printer and then buy cartridges that they have huge margins on.
I suspect Nespresso is involved with reporting the Ebay accounts. Buyers certainly aren't going to report them. Ebay seller has no reason to abandon an account each time a stolen card stops working... the cards are in no way connected to Ebay, they would just switch cards and keep rolling.
Nespresso probably has a handful of people engaged in brand protection, reporting suspect sellers on Ebay. And thus why the accounts get banned in about 2 weeks.
In this endeavor, Nespresso also doesn't particularly care if they accidentally target a legitimate account. It has no effect on their bottom line.
Nespresso is evil. And tastes like shit.
"...but my ethics were restored."
Well, aside from supporting Nestle. 😕
RIght. Those pods are so dodgy, not only financially uneconomical, but extraordinarily bad for the environment
@@_BangDroid_ right?
Only some pods are recyclable and Nespresso wants club membership to their recycling program. Compostable would be better, though a technical challenge.
Less energy due to smaller quantity. Heating the water remains the biggest power consumption. Specific heat capacity of water remains 4.187 J/g
@@happyfase Its not the pods that are the problem. It's all the other shady stuff that Nestle does, like refusing to reduce pumping for their bottled water operation in California in the middle of a drought, despite the fact that they only pay a few hundred dollars per million gallons for the water rights. Or refusing to commit to ethical sourcing for the palm oil that they use to make all their chocolate.
@@JeremyLevi Chocolate produced through slave labor is also probably worth mentioning.
18:15 - Did you try contacting Visa or MC ? I would bet they'd get VERY interested in your investigation. Good job lady. I admire your level of ethic. If we were all like you this world wouldn't be in this mess.
We'd all be sweating caffeine from our eyeballs, though.
My credit card once got charged for something I did not buy and what was sent to someone else.I was contacted by my bank, got my money back and asked if they investigate it. As far as I can remember they told me that they won't.Pretty sure this got handled by the insurance and wasn't worth the effort to hunt down the frauds.
If you care about ethics, you don't buy disposable aluminum coffee pods.
I’ve contacted them before about fraudulent activity on eBay. Specifically, I was selling Apple TV a few years ago. I would get people with new accounts buying the product and shipping to shady strip mall addresses or drop shippers. A few weeks later I would get PayPal notices that the card used was stolen and I had to prove that I shipped the item. I would include the tracking ID number and the case would be closed and I could keep my money. I started experiencing almost a 50% fraud rate in selling these devices. I contacted EBay and PayPal and they didn’t care. I actually contacted the CC company a few times and they didn’t care either. One person told me if the stolen amount wasn’t more than $10,000 it wasn’t worth their time.
good idea
This is one of those great videos that barely caught my eye and had no relation to any videos I regularly watch. It was amazing.
Just realized I was a mule once. Ordered an air fryer, came straight from the company I paid half price
@@alexwhiteman2628 or a rogue agent in the company intentionally selling product they have access to illegally.
@@alexwhiteman2628 if it was a subsidiary then the shipping label would have listed the sender as the subsidiary, not the parent company.
It's a convection oven.
It could also have been last year's model (or one just about to be replaced in their product line-up) and they were being sold at a discount to clear warehouse space, using eBay so that it doesn't seem like they're basically dumping them onto the market.
Drop shipping doesn't necessarily mean it was fraud. The person you ordered it from may have had a coupon or promo offer that allowed them to pay less for the item than you did. They could have had access to wholesale pricing.
Hunh, so eBay is the original Silk Road hiding in plain sight.
Absolutely. Check out their prohibited items list sometime, and then realize that those prohibitions exist because multiple people sold those things on eBay.
Yes and the shocking thing is that Nespresso is breaking the law when shipping this stuf nowing that she called them about the fraud.
MrLeovdmeer not really.. there isn’t a clear chain of custody.. and departments in a corporate entity isn’t all that efficient.. could be months before anyone does their job. As long as some action was taken there isn’t much that can be done.
Yeah so this is what I don't get: Isn't ebay terrible for the scammer in terms of opsec? You have to have a real bank account registered with your paypal, right? Isn't it all easily traceable?
how is this analogous to the silk road?
12:24 - This is not true. You cannot report a _transaction_ as fraudulent if you received the item, but you can go to the listing page and click the "report item" link, which will then give you the option "Listing practices -> Fraudulent listing activities" and "Listing practices -> Stolen property". I have no idea if eBay actually does anything about it, but the option _does_ exist.
9:51 - Also, seller rating (for both new and old accounts), a.k.a. feedback, is shown right next to the seller's name, in the "Seller information" box (which she cropped out of her screenshots...). It's obviously not the same as the _product_ ratings, which are clearly labelled with the words "product ratings". Makes me wonder if she's using some special version of eBay, or just lacks basic observation skills.
No one gives any f*cks.
You seriously wasted more time than I just did.
Seek therapy before it's too late.
I could listen to Nina Kollars stories every day. Nina if you want to leave the dark side of the military industrial complex, you could have a new career as a raconteur.
Always thought of nespesso as a scam, worse than printer ink.
So this was a scam taking part in a scam.
@@SaHaRaSquad It like a scam onion. A Scamion
There are 4 grams of coffee in a nespresso pod. 18 grams in the coffee machine at the cafè.... Of course it's a scam!
You pay for the convenience, and it's more onenient than a moka coffeee pot. You can use as many pods as required to fill your cup.
Why a scam? People are happy to pay so much for takeaway coffee but not way, way less for a capsule based coffee at home?
Omg
Drop shipping is the perfect money laundering technique.
About "victimless": Even if it is NOT the elderly, and people just "charge back" the fraudulent charge, that is roled into the REGULAR price as "cost of doing business".
This type of fraud is completely rampant in digital transferable goods like game keys, there often the actual vendor (in this case nespresso) can really get into trouble due to chargeback fees.
It was so rampant wot csgo in game keys that valve the game publisher made them be account locked
What do you mean "moralizing"? The fact of the matter is that in the Video game context the only thing the companies can do is to not process credit cards at all, or with a delay (that customers don't appreciate), or slam the "breakage" on the price for valid customers. At the core it is a security issue with credit cards, which the banks don't want to fix (as they just relegate the cost onto the vendors) nor the card holder (because they can initiate chargebacks relatively easy)
First video of 2020 that i did not have to skip through! Amazing Speaker!
Plot twist: The fraudsters were in the audience, watching her give the talk.
@@gregoryhouse5240 I literally was thinking this about an awkward guy laughing in the background
You joke, but this is DEFCON... this exact thing ("perp" in the audience) happens all the time
Plot twist by @Wolf's Den: she is the fraudster and this is just an ad for people to go buy it.
Plot twist: We just got a lesson from a Fed and professor on how to set up a lucrative eBay scam.
@@petersouba1041What is defcon about, exactly? It seems really popular / famous.
This has got to be one of my favorite talks. This is why I love the industry.
Of course ebay won't do anything about it. They get a comission off of every fraudulent transaction
Technically, eBay isn't getting any of the dirty money. The fraudster is buying products from a company with the stolen cards and sending it to the mule. The mule sends their clean money through eBay. Though I wonder how they will react when this goes past their feeds. A federal agent is noticing this? Maybe they can bribe her with coffee. It looks to be working so far.
@@mattstorm360 ebay takes a cut from every single sale on their platform.
@@mattstorm360 Define "dirty money". I mean, yes... Ebay is on the laundered side of the equation, and thus keeps all of it. As OP said.
The transaction is still fraudulent.
@@APsupportsTerrorism Dirty money as in the stolen money that's about to get charged back from the legitimate retailer back to the cc company / cc owner.
@@mattstorm360 I think the idea is that the savings offered to the mules makes for more total sales, and more total commission for ebay.
12:55 wouldn't that be covered by "item not as described"
ebay allows certain sellers to block this sort of thing. I ordered a sim card that was advertised many times over as doing X, and even said that "while some people claim it doesn't do X, they've never provided proof" - and then have the ability to send proof, blocked. It's cute.
But hey, my sim card still works, i just had to buy $500 worth of hardware over the course of 2 years to use it :-D
She has a caffeine addiction and it is in direct conflict with her morals.
The addiction makes her do things she wouldn't normally do 😂
Sounds like a great movie.
Next thing you know, she sets up a mule to receive even more coffee. She knows too much about fraud triangles. She's obviously a smuggler.
@@eyealienit 😂😂
Seller doesn't need to ask to cancel an order. They can just cancel the order and click "by buyer request" or "item was lost or damaged" or "there's a problem with the buyer's address".
this woman has far to much spare time and coffee, but I like her.
Too much coffee? PAH! That doesnt exist D:
eBay doesn’t care about fraud.
Great story to listen to. She’s a great talker.
No she's not. Annoying to listen to.... "Um..um..um..um" !
ciaranjd132 I didn’t notice at all really. But I can see how once you’ve noticed it, you can’t unhear it.
Okay, I'm missing something. They create a scam credit card using someone stolen info. I got that part. Some of these posts talked about using the CC to buy stuff for themselves. But why the ebay thing with a third party? How does this help them?
On ebay the mark pays cash (paypal) for their goods, which the seller/ scammer pays for with stolen credit cards. So, this process converts the credit on the card into cold hard cash.
While Paypal is quite cold and hard, they still have to get the cash off Paypal, which means there will be a link to the actual fraudster's bank account. Or they'll have to use that Paypal credit to buy stuff they actually want, which again will link to a real address. Basically, if Paypal and the credit card company really want, they _can_ trace the money.
@@RFC3514 That's the part I don't understand. Do they eventually buy products or goods and sell them in person or something? Seems like so much work to get currency.
17:15, ive heard all the rest before, but ive never heard someone come up and say it like u did! My mom, poor lady, shes gone through the nigeriaan thing on the net, but i am with you 100% the majority of the fraud is targeted at the elderly! we need a system to help stop those attacks!
Take a look at 419eater. They're a forum specifically dedicated to messing with these guys and reporting their stolen bank accounts/credit cards/etc. They'll even match you up with an experienced scambuster to show you how it's done. There's "trophies" to put in your signature depending on whether you bust someone for a fake bank account, credit card, or website...and if you get them to travel!
@@Aladayle Nice :)
Thank you, youtube algorithm, that was very interesting and entertaining and not at all what I thought it would be when I read the title.
Indeed that was an awesome way to get To a Serious talking point. Thanks Nina
10:00 - One would only think that if one lacked the ability to read. Those stars are clearly labelled "product ratings" and are (surprise!) the user ratings for that product (not "a generic review of what people think of Nespresso coffee"). Seller feedback (for all accounts) is clearly displayed next to the seller name, inside a box labelled *"Seller information"* (in bold), which she cropped out of her screenshot. It is *not* "near the bottom in a tiny font".
It's also pretty trivial to report fraud and stolen property on eBay; there's a link in the product page labelled "Report item" with those exact options in its sub-menu. Amazing how she spent all this time "investigating" these fraudsters and calling the FBI but was unable to find that link, which is on every single listing page on eBay. Good thing she doesn't work as a military strategist or anything like that...
Also, "an Nespresso"? Really?
This is a person who is consuming a food product she bought on ebay.
she destroys my business model
Mine too! Why she not take oder and just walk way?!
@@Cimlite the foul oder!
very wholesome
explanation of micro scams online and potentially being apart of a scam.
An algorithm that is able to spot the original language by grammar and spelling mistakes would be huge. Not just for detective work but also for educational purposes. You could start fine-tuning English lessons to each native language as they all struggle with their own obstacles.
It seems like it would be an easy thing to train an AI to do (you'd just have to feed it a lot of examples). I'm not sure how wide the margin of error on the final original language guesser would be though.
A simple dialect/language guessing algorithm already exists at archive.gameswithwords.org/WhichEnglish/
It’s a bummer that she self censored with her fear of racism
It would be mostly useless, because:
a) Fraudsters will generally just copy & paste strings from other sellers, and not write anything original that could be traced uniquely to them, and
b) Most errors that people associate with foreign eBay sellers are actually errors in common translation apps (like Google Translate); it's not the user struggling with English, it's the app translating idiomatic expressions literally.
@@RFC3514 Google translate would still be making different errors based on different languages.
If someone sends you something TO YOU and you did not order it (here in the US), by law you are allowed to keep it and can NOT be held liable to pay for it - it's a federal law to keep scammers from just sending you something and then demanding you fork out an inflated price to pay for what was delivered.
OP in this video did NOT have to send beck the unit. She could have kept it and nobody could be able to charge her for it.
That's true, I got a $300 duplicate bracelet and the company wanted me to pay to ship it back. Ha, no.
You can report on eBay for fraud, or pirated items.
I work for a company that sells Nespresso products, which is why this first caught my eye, but I never expected someone to be using their pods to run that kind of scam.
The genius is not that Nina had figured it out but rather the loop holes that are being exploited to attack a very fragile economic model.
couldn't you just parse the html code for the right buyer instead of looking through 100 of them daily? im asking
In the United States, Receipt of stolen property is a federal crime- as it is in most other countries. Therefore, by not even having a 'Report' option, Ebay is actively participating in criminal activity and should be shut down.
They do have one. She couldn't find it
4:30 She didn't report the fraud to the correct authorities, as she is well aware.
Keeping the machine means she will buy the expensive pods.
This is how the misic industry got the majority of people to stop buying vinyl records and cassette tape using marketing propaganda.
A Federal Government Agent openly on a recruiting drive.
How many were immoral and unethical and got recruited?
- "hey honey, whats in the box?"
- "nespresso..."
- "what else?"
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
is this a meme?
@@xybersurfer yes
Nina is a great speaker. I enjoyed the talk!
My sister gifted me her old Pixie when she bought a Dolce Gusto machine. It leaks a bit of water and such, needed some cleaning of the coffee residue on the spout, which due to some easy to correct design flaws means taking it wholly apart. Store brand pods and refillables for us, thank you very much. I would hesitate to buy food products from eBay, on account of chinese counterfeits of such.
At the root of this hypothesized fraud scheme is not simply elderly victims of identity theft.
These victims are in an unrecognized but significant demographic of crime victims. They are "defendant adults" or those who are able to function and survive with assistance yet without that assistance; they are not able to manage. Now obviously those persons involved in assisting or entrusted with the responsibility to assist them, have simply assisted themselves with their clients assets or good name (credit).
Yes, exactly!
Those pods are awful for the environment
so are you.....
anonymous mc are you intentionally evil or just stupid?
Agreed, better to French press and compost.. or drink matcha
not only for the environment, also for the coffee drinker
Their capsules are recyclable 🤔
Years ago my working collegues bought a Nespresso machine directly from Nespresso. They also bought so much coffe (from Nespresso, not via ebay) that they got a new machine for every 1000 pads or so they ordered (i could be wrong about the exact number, but it was surprisingly low to me). So keep in mind that the few 100 $ or € they want for the machine aren't what the thing actually costs them. Also if you get a new machine, you will keep using it and buying new coffe (with which they make the real money)
Yeah, pod coffee is like printer ink. That's where they make their money.
Nice job but she fails to explain why the eBay sellers send the extra items. The buyers would have been satisfied with what they ordered at the right price. She thinks maybe a clerical error, but it happened a few times.
Because they wan´t to increase sales, therefore to bind every customer by satisfiying him, which works perfectly with extra items.
They just have the advantage that they needn´t to pay for the extra items, since the creditcard owner does.
@@meranger92 Silly.
if you are interested in the actual subject of this video (i/e. what is a 'money mule') jump to 4:56
so after having thought about it for a while she figured it wasn't a victimless crime?
no shit sherlock
She is a wonderful person.
I've reported stuff to the FBI before, I was either ignored or laughed at.
Great blend of storytelling and legit information. Danke!
Funny. If I did that over here, the police would come and confiscate the items I bought. No such thing as bona fide or in good faith here. I might in fact even be charged for knowingly purchasing stolen goods if it's considered to be obvious. Too low a price is enough.
@@ahorseinshorts here is where the there is
Azul Fumegante Might be Germany. Not 100% sure tho
the tool she's describing, one that looks at english text and tries to guess the native language (by observing the grammatical errors, sentence structure etc.) does in fact exist, its an open question in the field of natural language processing, called Native Language Identification, or NLI.
I don't get the "everyone is incentivized" bit. Credit card owner sure did not think so.
Credit card owner was unaware or unwitting until it was too late. :(
Who pays here? Card owner would have reported the fraud and been fully refunded by their card provider. Does the card provider (bank) suffer the loss? No, they are covered by Visa, Mastercard etc. But does Visa or Mastercard suffer the loss, or are they insured against it and an insurance company covers the loss? I'm curious who actually pays? I know in the end the consumer will pay because any loss will flow back into the price a consumer is charged for a credit card in interest or fees. But at what key points and from which company is money flowing back to the consumer to cover the fraud?
The credit card companies recover the money from the vendor plus a charge-back fee (if the card holder notices and initiates one).So the vendor is incentivized to not inform the card holder on their own, because that means they have to give the money back+ the charge. They are also not interested in recouperation even IF there was a charge back, because the whole thing is calcualted as breakage, and included in the pricetag for regular customers. (Tells you something about profit margin, though).
Other vendors where the profit margin seems lower, or the chargeback fee rivals the individual sales volume (indy computer games), there the vendors are making a bit more of a noise in terms of CC security and how that really hurts them.
@@brendanfarthing which is why she made a point to say most victims were elderly. they very likely do not notice suspicious charges and might just eat them up
Haha, credit card owner is incentivized not to check their bill.
So with each of her purchases someone got charged on his/her credit card in a fraudulent manner or do I misunderstand?
Yes
"Item significantly not as described" would've sent her on the right path.
Actually, that just sends a message to the seller asking for a refund (if the seller doesn't reply within 3 days, then it goes to eBay customer service). The options she wanted are under "report item" (in the item listing itself, not in her purchase history) and are labelled "Listing practices -> Fraudulent listing activities" and "Listing practices -> Stolen property". Those get sent directly to eBay (not to the seller).
@@RFC3514 seems super convoluted and not (avg) user friendly. They should have a link on every listing or in every email sent, after confirmed purchases, to report fraud. They are making their cut on these listings so Ebay dgaf.
It's not convoluted at all, you're reporting *the item* not the transaction, so you report it from the *item page,* not your transaction history (the latter has a link to the former, anyway, so if you want to start from there it's just one extra click). The link itself could be a bit more visible, but it's in the right page. It also allows people to report fraudulent listings _without_ buying the item.
@@RFC3514 i don't think it's the right place. you don't know that it's a fraudulent listing in this case until you receive it. and they may remove the listing leaving only the transaction
@xybersurfer - The listing page is always available for transactions that have been concluded, so that you can check it after you receive the item (otherwise they could just send you something different, remove the listing, and tell you it had been your mistake).
Just open the *item* page and click "report item". This would also have allowed her to report the other "suspicious sellers" _without_ playing along with (and benefiting from) the scam herself. She could then check whether or not eBay removed those listings and closed those accounts.
There are several other... let's call them "untruths" in this video, so either she has extremely poor observation skills or she decided to misrepresent things deliberately to blame eBay. The way she cropped the whole "Seller Information" panel out of her screenshots makes me suspect the latter.
George Clooney is a coffee mafioso.
George Clooney is still a thing?
alex carter only in nespresso ads.
Identity theft is not a joke, Jim
People still buying coffee capsules :/ cant understand how they dont think about the environmental repercussions.
Agreed! 🌱
Jar of coffee £5.00 lasts me 2 weeks. Glass recycled.
I believe nespresso uses 100% aluminum capsules and recycles those pods to be sustainable.
@@natecompton1858 energy into making and recycling the aluminium is ridiculous
Because convenience. Doesn’t impact them directly. Saves time. The more developed a country, the more service and convenience focused it becomes. Less about survivability and sustainability. Environmental conservation has to be made easy/convenient for people really adopt it. Tech and scientific advances are there to make things faster better cheaper. Aka preserving the one currency that can never be renewed or replaced. Time.
I saw some suspicious listings on eBay before, and it makes so much sense after this video.
I set a search notification a few months ago for this particular monitor I wanted. A few days later, I started getting dozens of too-good-to-be-true deals from brand new sellers for exactly the same monitor. I stayed far away out of caution, but I'm thinking it was exactly what happened in this video.
She should have called the agent on “manhunt: unabomber “ !
unabomber was much smarter than this
Ok, so who was defrauded?
Did someone defraud nesspresso by hacking Nesspresso, sending her an extra item. Then claim that they never got their item. Resulting in a charge back to an account the seller made up?
@Mister Donkey maybe! Didn't you hear the speaker also say Fraud?
Who's ID theft hers? Nesspresso's ID or account info from Nesspresso?
You don't understand what I've been asking. Who was defrauded and how it works?
The speaker got what she payed for plus more but I'm ASSuming that Nesspresso's ordering system was hacked and tricked.
@Mister Donkey Go fuck yourself!
Listen to her story again!
You wrote a bunch of words with bad grammar and missing a S here and there. So you just negated your attempt at sounding intelligent, which you are not!
I asked a few different ways, a simple question and you couldn't answer it.
Don't respond anymore.
@@kurtstergar1042 the middle man stole someone's credit card but instead of buying stuff with it creates a store on Ebay that sells stuff from another company (Nespresso) without having to touch any inventory (dropshipping). Ebay cuts him a check minus ebay fees and voila $$$ good old hard cash, instead of having to buy and sell stuff with the stolen card/identity.
@@Frank-pj2tb thank you. I was thinking it was something along those lines.
But the thing I don't get is how the drop shipper was able to sell the items for half price to the women telling the story. When Nesspresso sells the items for full price from their site. Are these items from Nesspresso getting close to there extaration and they work with drop shippers to make some profit and get rid of the items?
Damn this women's investigative curiosity is contagious.
@@kurtstergar1042 I think scammer pays full price with stolen credit card and sells cheap to undercut other sellers on ebay. His stuff sells quicker and it's still 100% profit since he's not paying with his money.
dang, sorry i missed out on the bid for that espresso machine! wish i had seen the vid sooner! no worries though, u for sure did ur part in it trying to get to the bottom of it, way way more than i can say for most, mad props to you! respect you tons!
Does this also work with non-compressible fluids?
I was really waiting for the plot twist in end where the speaker would say..
"It was Nespresso all along, setting up third-party sites and offering the machine and other incentives for free because they knew that once you had a machine in place (or if it was given away) that machine would create another profit Center in someone's household and in the long run their data suggests nespresso makes more money that way over the long run..."
Guess I was wrong
Nestle HQ is trying to get your location
Nestle Death Squad en route to your location.
Joey...Run.
Or it was Nespresso all along, paying her for this viral marketing ad.
Sol.... how exactly does one find this mule ebay purchases? for ummm research purposes of course... of course...
Just keep doing this and resell the stuff on ebay and when they undercut your price just buy them up.
This activity won't be limited to new accounts with zero rating, scammers frequently buy hacked / dormant eBay accounts and use them for fraud.
You would think Nespresso would have marked her address as receiving fraudulent products and at the minimum not ship to her only less this happened so fast the stolen cards weren't reported stolen yet.
Or just looked the other way and not cared since they're still getting paid
@@huma474 no the credit card companies will refund the money to the persons card that was stolen since the items were purchased fraudulent so Nespresso loses. She sent real money to the person that used the stolen credit cards. So the fraudulent person isn't out of money and she got her product + other items.
@@dco5055 The fraud refunds would only happen if the person who had their card stolen contacts the credit card company within a reasonable time after the purchase clears - 30 to 60 days. Given that these card numbers appeared to be related to retirees per what she said there is a very good chance that they might not see the fraud charges before it becomes to late to be actioned on, leading to everyone walking away. Nespresso is working from a place of apathy and partial good faith (partial because things should have been flagged the moment she made the first call). They want to keep the money and not look too hard at where its coming from because if they see something they must do something.
Nestle is known for indirectly killing people for profits and being shady whenever it gets them more money...you can bet they knew full well what was happening, and the profit margin of their stupid coffee capsules alone would easily pay for the few refunds.
I do not understand how this works. If the seller puts goods for LESS, how do they buy from the manufacturer and make profit? Where is the catch?
They use the credit card they obtained using identity theft from a third person (as shown on the triangle). This third person may not even know there is a credit card in their name using their stolen identity or that their identity was stolen to obtain it. So they will be charged with not paying the credit card bills in the end if their address is used as well (but if the fraudster is smart, the stolen identity will be used to establish other addresses and residenties so that the person whose identity was actually stolen won't be aware of even that and then just innocently gets listed on some wanted list once crimes are being reported).
Knew this was gonna be a great talk when the heavy airquotes around "the cybering" came out.
cyber_ring
I would MUCH prefer to hear about her real professional work !!!
kinda ironic it involved nestle, such a terrible company
Water or baby formula?
@@Seth9809 or deforestation? Or human trafficking? I did a video detailing all of Nestle's sins if anyone's interested in learning more
Corporations are not your friend
Shooting union members ect.
Too bad cuz I've learned to drink instant coffee and Nestle is the only good one I can buy where I live.
WOW! Nice talk Dr Kollars--- to think I knew you when you were Ms Kollars in Symposium!
These capsule produce so much unnecessary waste
dont forget to also use those plastic handled single use bits of floss... im not particularly concerned about the environment but those are just disgusting to me
u can recycle the aluminium from the capsule and the coffee gets turned into fertiliser. The information ur using is old, when capsules first came out they were very unsustainable but they've come a long way. Compared to barrista coffee cups its actually a very sustainable way to consume coffee.
@@andrewbell6855 what about the capsule itself? Aren't they still plastic and hard to recycle? There are coffee machines that take whole beans. If you need your coffee fix, why not buy one of them instead?
@@aspzx all nespresso capsules are made from aluminium. They might have started as plastic but ive never had plastic capsules.
fuck you dirty hippie
So this makes me wonder the lifespan of the fake accounts. If they're about 30 days, then if you ordered the product about two weeks into the process, received your stuff, then 2 weeks later the account goes dormant, open a damage claim and get a refund from EBay/PayPal
I'm just brainstorming and not suggesting anyone take advantage of a broken system where someone could have had their identity stolen.
I've witnessed larger issues with Pre-Order items where the estimated release date isn't even for 3 or 4 weeks yet, the "seller" takes all the money and just poofs away, maybe sending product to the first X pre-orders but then just ghosting the rest, money in hand.
I've been caught in these before. Buying something on ebay that clearly is using the same graphics as amazon but is a steal in price, and having two show up. Absolutely frustrating that you can't get it resolved. It's 100% money laundering by being the unwitting participant trading your clean cash for some trivial good of which is actually paid for by some stolen means.
@@entox. How is it warranty fraud? The scenario I'm thinking of is when a giftcard is received via the FBI/IRS payment scam or they obtain a skimmed CC and the scammer needs/wants to convert that into reportable cash. They list some item on Ebay and when the unwitting participant purchases the relisted product, they simply purchase it from a throwaway/bot-created amazon account and send it to the ebay purchaser as a gift. In this case it seemed like it was a skimmed CC or a CC opened via identity theft of seniors and the scammer needed to convert that dirty credit into cash.
The warranty fraud I'm thinking of is when you convince some retailer that you own a product of theirs that has broken under their warranty and you request a replacement where they send you a new product and you return the old product in the same packaging. I'm a bit confused on how one would manage to convince Nespresso that their coffee pods have broken under warranty...
It is clear from the letter they moved to a different product because either Nespresso got wise or they were staying one step ahead of the law. They also wanted to stop sending this one address product.
FBI offers you a free coffee in the office ;)
Way better title than triangulation fraud and how to prevent it
Fed being a fed. So smarmy and self congratulatory. Talk was entertaining, reminded me why I dont like those people though.
11:59 yes there is. item not as described.
They still do this? Could use a Pixie
How do the scammers securely withdraw the money though? As far as I know, their info should be readily available if they use paypal. What am I missing here?
The stolen cards aren't connected to the seller in any substantive way. Remember the card isn't used to pay for anything on eBay, its used to buy product from Nespresso web site and send it to the dupe customer. The eBay transaction is separate between buyer and seller. Only the seller knows the two transactions are related.
What customer sees: Order at a cheap price, get real product.
What eBay sees: Customer orders something, pays, doesn't complain about any problem with product. eBay gets their cut of the sale. Seller withdraws cash from eBay PayPal. eBay can't tell anything is wrong, they got paid, customer is happy, seller is happy.
What Nespresso sees: Same stolen CC (detected when CC chargebacks happen) used to buy large amounts of products from their web store, but all shipped to dozens of different customers. Which one is the thief? Just the person who used the CC, who they don't know.
@@JeremyLevi oh god dang it you're right! I suppose the FBI could track them down if they really wanted to, but they'd have to have all parties cooperating
@@Synochra Basically. It's not like they couldn't be tracked down, but the cost is high to very high (depending on the scammers' opsec) if they're domestic, and pretty much sky high if they're operating from a foreign non-cooperating country.
In the UK you often get a free machine if you buy 200 pods at once, so I wouldn't have been surprised by it :D
makesense those things are such a scam by nespresso to begin ith.
I wonder how this is working: I am ordering Stuff from "Joe", "Joe" is using a Credit Card from "Jane" to order Stuff from Nespresso, delivered to my Address. Now, somehow, I am the "guy who do the business" by using a stolen CredCard - My Shipping Address has entered, for Nespresso, only me and "Jane", who "Use the CredCard" is seeable. Shouldn't they claim the Goods back after the Credit Card debit get cancelled? (Sorry for my bad english, it is not my native language).
It works more like that:
1. Buyer orders from fraudster and pays legitimate.
2. Fraudster orders from a legitimate shop, giving them the buyers adress as shipping adress, using stolen credit card information.
3. Buyer gets item, fraudster gets cash from buyer, shop gets money from creditbank.
Now, if the person who´s creditcard information was used noticed the payment and calls the bank, they would usually inform the police which should try to get the fraudster, who most likely will already have burned the ebay account and opened a new one.
The Shop has already got the money, the buyer has already the item, the damage is done to the creditbank or the creditcard holder.
@@meranger92 or insurance covers it, or the shop sits on the loss of items.
meranger92 or like the lady in the video said, often it’s the elderly who’s credit card numbers are stolen and they either don’t notice the fraud or don’t know how to handle it and they become the ultimate victim.
Your credcard is seeable
Uh, the system is designed poorly on purpose and it will remain that way until important people suffer the effects.