Hey Evan, thank you so much for taking your time to share the knowledge! The drawbacks of "save track layout" feature you mentioned in the video resonate with me so much. In addition to the fact that they don't get carried over automatically to new chunks, it's always a pain having to reset the layout whenever I add a new track. Very excited about this workflow optimization, I look forward to your next video. Cheers!
Thank you for watching David! If you google "16n controller" you'll find out more. It's this custom designed open source github project and I was lucky to find someone to build one for me! I'm going to do a video sometime soon where I'll talk more about it!
Thank for sharing Evan. One question: at 3:20 you say that every instance in VEPro has 18 MIDI Ports enabled. But, at very first sight, if you have one MIDI Port for every Kontakt articulation and every Kontakt has 5-10 midi channel; it looks to me that you need much more ( of course if you have a huge number of libraries)... So, I think I'm missing something! If it is possible, can you tell how you menage MIDI for every Kontakt instance. Ciao!
Hi Lauro, Thanks for watching! I don't use a kontakt instance for every articulation/patch. I will populate EACH kontakt instance with up to 16 patches/articulations and therefore, having 18 midi ports per VEP instance, enables me to have 18x16 kontakt patches per VEP instance, or a total of 288 Kontakt patches per VEP instance. Hope that is helpful?
@Evan Goldman Music Thank you. I've always worked with a little template and added tracks when needed. But I am curious and I want to test a big template, so your answer is what I needed. (I'm also starting to make projects with V-Rack. I did a project of ten songs and it worked great)
"The downside of having so many tracks is there's a lot to sift through". Yeah that's why a DAW isn't a database. That's what sample libraries already do extremely well. Good luck with your tracks approach.
What was the point of this comment besides highlighting the author's ignorance of this ubiquitous workflow for synestration and mock-ups in the media scoring industry? Oh, wait...
@@R0bstar-YT what was your point which points to no advantages of putting hundreds if not one thousand unused tracks in a DAW. Are you aware of the lengthy startup times this produces? Sound libraries do this very well, yet some feel the insatiable need to pack the whole house for the trip. Unnecessary. Mmv of course, but I'm doubting this is an elegant approach. I think you mean "synthestration". All in all, this is a lengthy approach to those who need a giant cockpit to fly a not so large plane. Mockups or otherwise. One never finds a sound through hundreds of mockups or pre prescribed tracks as they do sound editing, sculpting or articulating those sounds. Refer to any real world working studio or production suite where work actually gets done. Media scoring? Oh, that's validation for hundreds of tracks! (My oh my). Still, I'm glad this gentleman has a workflow for his needs.
@@jamesconraadtucker You keep comparing a sample library to a daw and it's just the silliest argument. Additionally, VEPro alleviates the issues you bring up, so yes I am aware.
@@R0bstar-YT what's "silly" is I didn't compare sample libraries to a DAW at all. Ever. Thats in YOUR head. In fact the opposite point was made. My contention is and always has been they are two different entities. A DAW is not a database. What part of that didn't you understand? A DAW holds and operates tracks (MIDI, Audio, clock, etc). One doesnt fill it to the hilt with unused tracks because they want instant gratification to compare instruments. While some macros, and keyword tabs, & aliases help as the author displays, it's typically a poor way to operate during the actual recording process. They typically don't mesh. A DAW is a recording and sequence mechanism. A sample library acts as a database with near instant response, only that's it. One has to then load those sounds. That said, there is the need for some to combine many sample libraries into one, for quickest auditioning of sounds. When so many sounds are pre loaded into a DAW. Load time as well as functionality are greatly compromised. Unless you can point to DP showing some advantage to this, please do. Better still, please you or the author, provide the full startup and turn key process. After all, that should be easy to do to validate your argument. Easy right? Startup, call up. Let's see it. Time?
@@jamesconraadtucker it allows some interesting thought associations , but I would not call it a solution, but a technique. And when it fails is pathetic hahah The biggest flaw of huge templates is that you loose flexibility in the articulations, and i can hear it in every annoying track i hear: the idee fixe in some articulations. I invest more time in a modular approach + search tab in Logic. I invest more time minimizing. I also wonder why he didn’t mention VEP, for the same problem. And another thing: common, most of the time you are not compose concert music, but fast food music for media. So i have two models, a small and empty, and a larger one. But when using more than 200 tracks becomes another huge problem it looks that you don’t know compositional techniques enough, or the libraries are bad. Without showing how you compose it is also all useless; if you compose well with 200000 tracks let me see, for i can learn. But what masters teach us is this: less is more, many times. And a bug house makes only sense with a clear structure. Which is the structure there? Anyway i like to see the ideas that these problems raise.
Thanks for the question Rick! As a general rule, I try my absolute BEST to keep everything under my finger tips right on my keyboard. I looked at an ipad setup like many have and wasn't a big fan due to always having to look down to find the right button and make sure I'm pressing exactly that place on the screen! I mainly just setup the streamdeck to have buttons/commands for the stuff I use less often and don't want to have to remember on my main QWERTY keyboard.
I'm new to your channel and hope you continue to make videos regarding DP 11. Especially orchestral score templates and Keyboard Maestro, which I'm also new to. Thanks, George
Very interesting tutorial Evan, thanks! Wouldn’t it be possible to achieve the same result much faster by creating all the track layouts that you need (from the track selector menu), assigning each one of them to a key command or a trigger event? Cheers!
If you're talking about using DP's "track layout" dialogue and internal functionality, this is actually what I did for years before switching to this system. The answer unfortunately is that DP's "track layouts" is inherently broken at the current moment. There's a bunch of bugs relating to recalling track layouts, not to mention it's MUCH slower to add and remove tracks from already saved layouts and the entire system for switching between layouts is nowhere near as fast as using the search filter.
Track layouts also work in the MIDI Editor. I'm just wondering wouldn't it be simpler to automate the Save As Track Layout process with KM instead? When you need to add new tracks have the relevant track layout visible and override it. Track Layouts need an update nonetheless. I requested MOTU to make dynamic track layouts based on various attributes like color, if name contains [keyword], aux track target etc.
I looked at automating the save track layout feature and it ended up being farrrrr more trouble than its worth, and it turns out, way more complicated than this system. Though if you have a solution for this I maybe didn't think of I'm excited to hear it! DP's track layouts is kind of a dead end atm I'm afraid. (not to mention the perforamnce of it is waaaayyyyyy slower than search filters)
Very Cool - just getting ready to do my new templates with DP11 & I love this Idea. I'm also working on creating Clips to be able to add my sections.... The idea for me is setting up things in sections and then hopefully having a leaner sequence adding the "clips/sections" as needed....
Alan Silvestri recently had a video through NI where he talks about doing something similar w Cubase. It's a REALLY intriguing way of working. I'd love to see your video/setup when you finish it!
@@biffnoble Hi Biff! Apologies to you and the entire DP community that things were so incredibly small in my very first episode (since corrected). For me, I run DP at it's smallest resolution and my display resolution at 4k so I can see LOTSSSS of tracks and data all at once! Normally this would be TOO small on the eyes, but I bought a DELL4320Q and it's gigantic size renders 4k beautiful with SO much real estate for working w DP! Computer is a 2019 Mac Pro 24 core w 96GB of RAM
This is the moment for me where I thought I had a big DP template but realized, no, I don’t Awesome video and super interesting, I’ll have to look into that app. Hopefully it has a windows version 😑🤞🏻
Hi Steve! It's a custom built box based on an open source manufacturing project on Github. If you google "16n Controller" you'll find more info. They are annoyingly difficult to get your hands on but with enough googling maybe you can find someone who will make one for you? Or if you're handy and have engineering skills the github should provide all the knowhow to make one yourself! I got mine from Michigan Synthworks but last I checked they stopped making them.
@@Dewdman42 I know! I LOVE how minimal it is. There's 16 faders all with a decent amount of vertical room but it barely takes up any space on my desk! I have no idea why these things aren't being made by more people!
Hi Eric, while you're right to point out the power of Cubase's visibility configurations, at the end of the day, Cubase's implementation of that is actually LESS powerful than this setup in DP for a few reasons. First, as far as I know, it won't work with INACTIVE secondary/side loaded projects. Like if you load an inactive project (say a different cue) to copy material into your currently active project, you can't hit key commands to quickly jump to only certain "tagged" tracks in the inactive side project. Also, I know for certain Cubase's inactive-side projects don't display plugin automation on AUX tracks while they are inactive, which is a gigantic oversight/problem in my opinion. Second, the setup as I've shown it here CAN be replicated with Cubase's main TRACKS-ARRANGE window but it CANNOT be replicated - no matter how fancy you get with logical editor or key command macros - with Cubase's key-editor (logic calls it the piano roll, DP calls it the midi editor) which is one of my absolute FAVORITE things about this workflow in DP.
Awesome idea which I've started implementing...is there anyway you could share the KM macro? That's where I'm struggling and maybe others.....
Excellent tip, thanks!
Hey Evan, thank you so much for taking your time to share the knowledge! The drawbacks of "save track layout" feature you mentioned in the video resonate with me so much. In addition to the fact that they don't get carried over automatically to new chunks, it's always a pain having to reset the layout whenever I add a new track. Very excited about this workflow optimization, I look forward to your next video. Cheers!
Fantastic!! Now you need to do a Keyboard maestro tutorial:-) This was very very helpful!
Thanks a lot! What are those faders you're using?
Thank you for watching David! If you google "16n controller" you'll find out more. It's this custom designed open source github project and I was lucky to find someone to build one for me! I'm going to do a video sometime soon where I'll talk more about it!
Thank for sharing Evan. One question: at 3:20 you say that every instance in VEPro has 18 MIDI Ports enabled. But, at very first sight, if you have one MIDI Port for every Kontakt articulation and every Kontakt has 5-10 midi channel; it looks to me that you need much more ( of course if you have a huge number of libraries)... So, I think I'm missing something! If it is possible, can you tell how you menage MIDI for every Kontakt instance. Ciao!
Hi Lauro, Thanks for watching! I don't use a kontakt instance for every articulation/patch. I will populate EACH kontakt instance with up to 16 patches/articulations and therefore, having 18 midi ports per VEP instance, enables me to have 18x16 kontakt patches per VEP instance, or a total of 288 Kontakt patches per VEP instance. Hope that is helpful?
@Evan Goldman Music Thank you. I've always worked with a little template and added tracks when needed. But I am curious and I want to test a big template, so your answer is what I needed. (I'm also starting to make projects with V-Rack. I did a project of ten songs and it worked great)
"The downside of having so many tracks is there's a lot to sift through". Yeah that's why a DAW isn't a database. That's what sample libraries already do extremely well. Good luck with your tracks approach.
What was the point of this comment besides highlighting the author's ignorance of this ubiquitous workflow for synestration and mock-ups in the media scoring industry? Oh, wait...
@@R0bstar-YT what was your point which points to no advantages of putting hundreds if not one thousand unused tracks in a DAW. Are you aware of the lengthy startup times this produces? Sound libraries do this very well, yet some feel the insatiable need to pack the whole house for the trip. Unnecessary. Mmv of course, but I'm doubting this is an elegant approach.
I think you mean "synthestration". All in all, this is a lengthy approach to those who need a giant cockpit to fly a not so large plane. Mockups or otherwise. One never finds a sound through hundreds of mockups or pre prescribed tracks as they do sound editing, sculpting or articulating those sounds. Refer to any real world working studio or production suite where work actually gets done. Media scoring? Oh, that's validation for hundreds of tracks! (My oh my). Still, I'm glad this gentleman has a workflow for his needs.
@@jamesconraadtucker You keep comparing a sample library to a daw and it's just the silliest argument. Additionally, VEPro alleviates the issues you bring up, so yes I am aware.
@@R0bstar-YT what's "silly" is I didn't compare sample libraries to a DAW at all. Ever. Thats in YOUR head. In fact the opposite point was made. My contention is and always has been they are two different entities. A DAW is not a database. What part of that didn't you understand? A DAW holds and operates tracks (MIDI, Audio, clock, etc). One doesnt fill it to the hilt with unused tracks because they want instant gratification to compare instruments. While some macros, and keyword tabs, & aliases help as the author displays, it's typically a poor way to operate during the actual recording process. They typically don't mesh.
A DAW is a recording and sequence mechanism. A sample library acts as a database with near instant response, only that's it. One has to then load those sounds. That said, there is the need for some to combine many sample libraries into one, for quickest auditioning of sounds.
When so many sounds are pre loaded into a DAW. Load time as well as functionality are greatly compromised. Unless you can point to DP showing some advantage to this, please do. Better still, please you or the author, provide the full startup and turn key process. After all, that should be easy to do to validate your argument. Easy right? Startup, call up. Let's see it. Time?
@@jamesconraadtucker it allows some interesting thought associations , but I would not call it a solution, but a technique. And when it fails is pathetic hahah The biggest flaw of huge templates is that you loose flexibility in the articulations, and i can hear it in every annoying track i hear: the idee fixe in some articulations. I invest more time in a modular approach + search tab in Logic. I invest more time minimizing. I also wonder why he didn’t mention VEP, for the same problem. And another thing: common, most of the time you are not compose concert music, but fast food music for media. So i have two models, a small and empty, and a larger one. But when using more than 200 tracks becomes another huge problem it looks that you don’t know compositional techniques enough, or the libraries are bad. Without showing how you compose it is also all useless; if you compose well with 200000 tracks let me see, for i can learn. But what masters teach us is this: less is more, many times. And a bug house makes only sense with a clear structure. Which is the structure there? Anyway i like to see the ideas that these problems raise.
Great video! Thank you!
What dark mode type skin is this? I can't get my tracks overview to appear with a black background like that...
Thanks Evan, I'm curious as to what functions you use your stream deck for? I use one to open and close apps and extensively in OBS.
Thanks for the question Rick! As a general rule, I try my absolute BEST to keep everything under my finger tips right on my keyboard. I looked at an ipad setup like many have and wasn't a big fan due to always having to look down to find the right button and make sure I'm pressing exactly that place on the screen! I mainly just setup the streamdeck to have buttons/commands for the stuff I use less often and don't want to have to remember on my main QWERTY keyboard.
I'm new to your channel and hope you continue to make videos regarding DP 11. Especially orchestral score templates and Keyboard Maestro, which I'm also new to.
Thanks,
George
Very interesting tutorial Evan, thanks! Wouldn’t it be possible to achieve the same result much faster by creating all the track layouts that you need (from the track selector menu), assigning each one of them to a key command or a trigger event? Cheers!
If you're talking about using DP's "track layout" dialogue and internal functionality, this is actually what I did for years before switching to this system. The answer unfortunately is that DP's "track layouts" is inherently broken at the current moment. There's a bunch of bugs relating to recalling track layouts, not to mention it's MUCH slower to add and remove tracks from already saved layouts and the entire system for switching between layouts is nowhere near as fast as using the search filter.
brilliant! ...searching Keyboard Maestro....
Track layouts also work in the MIDI Editor. I'm just wondering wouldn't it be simpler to automate the Save As Track Layout process with KM instead? When you need to add new tracks have the relevant track layout visible and override it. Track Layouts need an update nonetheless. I requested MOTU to make dynamic track layouts based on various attributes like color, if name contains [keyword], aux track target etc.
I looked at automating the save track layout feature and it ended up being farrrrr more trouble than its worth, and it turns out, way more complicated than this system. Though if you have a solution for this I maybe didn't think of I'm excited to hear it! DP's track layouts is kind of a dead end atm I'm afraid. (not to mention the perforamnce of it is waaaayyyyyy slower than search filters)
Very Cool - just getting ready to do my new templates with DP11 & I love this Idea. I'm also working on creating Clips to be able to add my sections.... The idea for me is setting up things in sections and then hopefully having a leaner sequence adding the "clips/sections" as needed....
Alan Silvestri recently had a video through NI where he talks about doing something similar w Cubase. It's a REALLY intriguing way of working. I'd love to see your video/setup when you finish it!
@@evangoldmanmusic8735 Hi Evan. Excellent, revelatory, psyche, physique sparing generous wisdom. Would you plz specify: Display Size, Computer?
@@biffnoble Hi Biff! Apologies to you and the entire DP community that things were so incredibly small in my very first episode (since corrected). For me, I run DP at it's smallest resolution and my display resolution at 4k so I can see LOTSSSS of tracks and data all at once! Normally this would be TOO small on the eyes, but I bought a DELL4320Q and it's gigantic size renders 4k beautiful with SO much real estate for working w DP! Computer is a 2019 Mac Pro 24 core w 96GB of RAM
This is the moment for me where I thought I had a big DP template but realized, no, I don’t
Awesome video and super interesting, I’ll have to look into that app. Hopefully it has a windows version 😑🤞🏻
Yes, Digital Performer is cross-platform indeed, i.e. Windows compatible.
@@BorisBerlin Oh I know DP is cross platform, been using it for years I meant the software he’s using for the shortcuts which might not be
Great
Please mode DP tutorials. Thank you.
We’ll all pitch in, get you an actual, overhead camera/phone stand :)
what you mean you don't like my awesome Jerry rigged guitar rig stand? haha
what fader box is that on the screen?
Hi Steve! It's a custom built box based on an open source manufacturing project on Github. If you google "16n Controller" you'll find more info. They are annoyingly difficult to get your hands on but with enough googling maybe you can find someone who will make one for you? Or if you're handy and have engineering skills the github should provide all the knowhow to make one yourself! I got mine from Michigan Synthworks but last I checked they stopped making them.
@@evangoldman6490 It has a really nice foot print. I'll keep my eyes open, I don't possess the skills to build one myself without risking injury. hehe
@@Dewdman42 I know! I LOVE how minimal it is. There's 16 faders all with a decent amount of vertical room but it barely takes up any space on my desk! I have no idea why these things aren't being made by more people!
This seems like self punishment with the likes of folder tracks in Studio One or Cubase visibility configurations.
Hi Eric, while you're right to point out the power of Cubase's visibility configurations, at the end of the day, Cubase's implementation of that is actually LESS powerful than this setup in DP for a few reasons. First, as far as I know, it won't work with INACTIVE secondary/side loaded projects. Like if you load an inactive project (say a different cue) to copy material into your currently active project, you can't hit key commands to quickly jump to only certain "tagged" tracks in the inactive side project. Also, I know for certain Cubase's inactive-side projects don't display plugin automation on AUX tracks while they are inactive, which is a gigantic oversight/problem in my opinion. Second, the setup as I've shown it here CAN be replicated with Cubase's main TRACKS-ARRANGE window but it CANNOT be replicated - no matter how fancy you get with logical editor or key command macros - with Cubase's key-editor (logic calls it the piano roll, DP calls it the midi editor) which is one of my absolute FAVORITE things about this workflow in DP.
@@evangoldmanmusic8735 Did you see that Cubase 13 now has track visibility in the Key editor?