This is just a high respect customer response. No matter how many people they have in their team, a guy who rides everyday will be able to justify it more.
As someone who does a lot of hike-a-biking on steep, lumpy terrain, I think it would be kind of helpful in preventing the front wheel from annoyingly flopping around like it likes to do in certain situations.
european trekking bikes had steering dampeners like this since the 90s. It is especially common on bikes that have bipod kickstands, so that the wheel does not flop either way.
I think it's important to look at it as part of the entire system. You can run a fork with less offset, which would make the bike "twitchy", and then dial that back in with the KIS. The combination of the two could give you sharper handling without it being TOO sharp.
I had edited out a whole section of the video talking about this, thinking it might lose some viewers. You're absolutely on to something. With another option for affecting the bike's handling, we don't need to rely as much on geometry. It will be interesting to see what comes from this in the future.
@@SethsBikeHacks Perhaps more race-inspired geometry, taking us back full circle? Imagine fitting a '90s XC bike with this tech. Perhaps we'll begin seeing this paired with current XC geo.
@@SethsBikeHacks I fell from a mild brush with a tree against the tip of my bars on a steep xc bike; I wonder if this might have allowed me to straighten in time to avoid falling.
@@SethsBikeHacks No, he absolutely isn't onto something. This just goes to show that the two of you don't understand the first thing about steering geometry. The thing that *actually* ensures a stable front end is the right ratio between steering axis, front-center, trail and offset.
Not all innovations are for everyone. I could see this being very beneficial for riders that are with one arm. This might help with fatigue and keep the bike stable when riding.
@@bencastellucci8823no, but spring isn't new idea also. You can see it on city bikes with heavy bucket on handlebars and on bikes tweaked for person with disability.
i was searching for this comment haha. My sister has a cheap city bike from decathlon and it has this mechanism (but outside of the frame). Really anoying in my opinion but maybe Canyon made a better version of this...
Yeah I would too! The bike was a size too large for me AND pretty much every jump I know of right now it straight up peanut butter. The pitfalls of filming in February.
You know what? I like this. Maybe it is the future, but maybe it isn't. But I'm always happy to see attempts at novel innovations. As we approach "peak bike" these weird features are the only ways for companies to distinguish themselves from other brands.
it's not novel and it is not innovation. It's just a revamp of an old idea. Steering dampeners that work functionally like this can be found on euro trekking bikes since at least the 90s.
@@fatpinarellorider nah. Put bikes 10 years ago vs. current bikes on current competition, the 10 year old bikes are at a disadvantage. For people who are not competitive, basic bikes suffice.
Try driving a car with zero degrees of caster and you would quit driving. If you tried racing a car with no caster you'd die within a year. Give KIS to to some 2 or 3 year olds. I'll bet you a million bucks they learn bicycle riding faster. Just because you you can rides without self centering doesn't mean its not needed to rride even faster
Steering dampers are used on motorcycles for ages. They got stuck because they simply work. This is a bit different than a steering damper, but imagine the amount of unwanted steering on a tech trail, I can imagine it works quite well. Also I hate when the handlebar doesn't stay straight on a bike repair stand, I would definitely benefit from it :)
I love your honesty. I'm not a MTB'er per say, but your videos are always entertaining, and you are VERY good at putting everything into layman's terms. I like your open mindedness to accept controversial parts that work better than you anticipated, as well as your ability to see possible issues with new tech and expose it for the placebo they are. Keep up the great work.
I would like to see a „Maintenance“ Video of the KIS system. I know they claim that its maintenance-free but lets be real we all know we would take it apart at least once, so I’d like to see someone who has not actively worked on developing it take it apart and put it back together in real time. Maybe that would give another view on the whole complexity topic.
This is an old trick used on city bikes. When you park the bike by leaning it on a post, the front wheel turns in and the bike want to roll backwards and fall down. The centering spring keeps the wheel straight and the bike does not fall down. Helps too when using a kickstand. I tried it but removed it again after I found that riding no hands is difficult unless the speed is high. We won't know if the KIS is really beneficial on MTBs until it has been used for a while. Good video.
I have mixed feelings about this. I love the fact that mountain bikes are becoming machines that fly through the woods and we're experiencing comfort levels we never dreamed of on a mountain bike, but at the same time I don't like the fact that mountain bikes become more complicated and expensive by the season, the mountain biking scene is putting out snob vibes and that's a bad thing because a lot of people are out of it because of the price ranges. Seth "bike hacks" is such genuine biking thing because we want a culture where you don't run into the nearest bike shop at the first minor problem.The flip series gets so much love because it shows that you can still enjoy mountain biking on a budget, is possible. Please do more stuff like that before you lose touch with a big part of the mountain bikers that love you.Don't get me wrong I don't hate on your expensive fleet (you earned it) or on progress in general, but at some point it might become unrelatable for some of us.
Prices have nothing to do with being complicated or not, it's just that MTBs are prohibitely expensive because companies know that customers will buy at these exorbitant prices anyways. Absolutely mind-boggling that you can get a race-prepped motorcycle for less than an eMTB or even carbon MTB. Even my top of the line 100 hp naked bike (with options) cost less than 10k, which is a "realistic" price point for a good MTB. It shouldn't be like that, no mechanical parts on an MTB justify it being so fkn expensive..
alot of the people in the community certainly act like snobs and the ones in Germany are basically 95% snobs that shun you for having a Bulls bike / using an e-mtb / not owning a 'proper brand' bike or parts but a good ol swing to the face with the quick release saddle quiets them up pretty fast and clears the trail of posers
I own a new spectral with k.i.s. it is awesome, it gives more control and confidence. The first time you feel it is weird, after you get back on a bike without it, you want it back, it is so much more comfortable. I cant wait to see it on more bikes
Seth, just stopped in to say I'm an avid budget bike rider. I took the Schwinn Boundary, stripped it to the frame, and upgraded everything. I'm not a serious mnt biker but do like riding some trails. I know you have high end bikes but I do love your flip bike videos and have become a fan from watching those!! This video was interesting to! I do like keeping up with all the new tech with mnt biking. I loved your back yard mnt bike trail videos! Keep the videos coming!
WOW! Something that I though is useless makes the bike handle easier in the corers. That just made my brain open to the next level of new things. Thanks for sharing!
The tension in the bars basically gives you more leverage with which to swing the rear wheel out! Pretty cool. I also like that it prevents the bike's bars from flopping to one side as you load the bike up or simply lift it up; it's always been a pet peeve of mine when my bike falls over because the bars decided to swing over.
@@SugoDiGatto I'm curious if this is an actual suggestion, because you could actually have say one double wrapped on your grip for this purpose... I can see it could work but are you saying you actually do this in practise?!
@@steffenfrost995 I did this on my motorcycle when I was working underneath it, to make sure it wouldn't roll when I applied leverage to loosen a couple bolts; I have been carrying an elastic band inside the handlebars of my bicycle, but honestly I haven't been needing it, as one way or another the bike would stay where I put it, and it's less hassle to find a spot it stays in than it is to use the elastic brake, IMO (but I'm lazy).
@@steffenfrost995 a more elegant solution, would be to have a small prong of sorts that could slide between the brake lever and its housing when it is pulled, so that it wouldn't spring back in its resting position. IIRC, some cargo bikes do have such a brake lever lock.
This has been around forever on old comuterbikes, at least in sweden. They put a spring between the front mudguard and the frame. It's useful when walking or parking your bike.
i dont think it makes hand free riding easier. What makes a bike ride well while being hands free is more to do with correct adjustment of the headset bearings - if they are as smooth as possible while being as tight as possible, the fork will naturally want to go straight.
This looks like a great idea! My father owned a motorcycle suspension company for 20+ years and MTB riders used to say suspension would never make it on mountain bikes because of weight. And just a few years later look at the mtb market now. This may be for top performance bikes. Technology always evolves I wouldn’t be surprised if the accuracy of the tension improves and multiple models are produced
I initially thought it wasn't user serviceable for some reason, but that's not the case. It's actually not too terrible removing and reinstalling it. It's actually much easier to reinstall the adjuster with the bike upside down.
Interesting product. In terms of the idea that the KIS system is effectively pushing the back end of the bike, I would guess that the effect is actually fairly minimal. But if it does actually have any noticeable effect then it's worth noting that there is a principal of "negative steering" where, particularly at speed, you turn the handlebars to the left to initiate a turn right and vice-versa. It's more prevalent on motorbikes where the wheel weights are heavier but if you really pay attention you naturally use this technique on pedal bikes as well. This is because the steering action works with the centrifugal force of the wheel to help lean the bike over going in to the turn. If those springs were providing any meaningful force on the tail of the bike then it would be in the wrong direction.
I thought about this too. Seth demonstrated the effect with a riderless bike hanging in mid-air. I don't think the size of springs used would be strong enough to overcome the weight of even a small rider and the traction of two tires in contact with the ground in influencing how the rear of the bike is going through a turn. To be clear, I am not bashing the component or Seth's evaluation of it, just making observations.
@@mtbikesam68 Yea, I don't buy the "control over the rear end" as anything but a placebo. Regardless of the strength of the springs the rear of the bike isn't something you can manually control, it's something that naturally follows you as the wheels turn forward. Manually controlling the rear means your rear wheel is skidding, and that's not something you actually want unless you're intentionally drifting, definitely not something you do on normal turns.
actually it wouldn't be a wrong direction. Doing oposite side overturne is called scandinavian flick, and help to move mass even more center of the actual turn
This feels like the next step above the Trek KnockBlock which I really have grown to love for predictability around the shop and while loading onto racks. I’m really digging this!
Reminds me of the Knock Blox on my Trek - didn’t know how much I hated it until it broke and now it’s not in my way any more 🤣 Definitely creating a solution to a problem that didn’t exist.
I have the same thinking. I don't like my Trek knock blocks but they exist because they wanted to have a close to straight down tube (which is of questionable value). I won't take out the knock block as annoying as they are. So, what is the problem they are trying to solve? We don't steer to turn at speed, we lean the bike. We steer to turn at low speed where Seth commented on this thing being annoying. I'm confident I would remove this from a bike if I ended up with it on a bike for some reason.
I could see the benefits of this technology! Especially for someone who may have a disability and struggles with balance while riding. I have an uncle with Parkinson’s disease who MTBs and I bet KIS would help him a lot, as he struggles with keeping momentum and balance while riding. Also, CrankBrothers sponsors a Polish MTBer who has one leg and can only use one of his arms, and he uses a steering damper when he rides to help keep his bars straight. It’s pretty fascinating to see where the new technology is heading. And I liked that you mentioned that is is one innovation that doesn’t involve a battery!
When I saw this in my feed I wanted to click away and not look at it. But I‘m glad I did because I actually like seeing where this will go. Definitely keen on trying it some time.
This isn't an ideal MTB product, but it makes a lot of sense with porteur, cargo, or any basket bike or bike with front panniers. It also makes a big difference for those trailside Instagram pics and locking up at a rack, or at a stop light in traffic! Most of these things are also good reasons to have a dropper post on those bikes too! All good reasons to have this type of equipment(velo orange and a few others sell aftermarket devices like this) on a commuter or city bike, but I trust your MTB expertise on it, because I don't ride off-road often. I hope Canyon integrates this with their Ebikes and Cargo/City bikes, but usually you see these technologies hit the most expensive bikes in the lineup first, even if it might seem superfluous or silly. Thanks for making this video!
So you talked about how a bike is normally self-stabilizing if you try to ride it without hands. My question is, does enabling this feature actually inhibit that? Could be an interesting test.
Exactly my thought, a bike with locked bars most definetly won’t stay stable by itself! How much this affects the whole system with a rider? Probably not much in most cases. I ride with very loose hands and let the front wheel find its own way around chunk, helps my wrist. Great way of thinking mate
Riding my bike without hands is pretty fun but that's not what it's meant for. I would take that trade off. More stability in the chunk sounds good to me! I do wonder how it affects handling during the very slow steep tech sections with hairpin turns and all that.
@@SethsBikeHacks I think you'd be more inhibited from doing that than you realise. See Veritasium's video on bike (and motorbike) stability and cornering.
I could see it being useful for loading or on a city bike in a rack. It goes against how We balance a bike. We are constantly making tiny counter steering inputs to keep the bike upright. Plenty of comments on not being able to ride with no hands with this system. Watch Your front tire while riding with no hands. Lots of tiny little self correcting movements. The gyro effects of the wheels also helps.
Love it or hate it - I can't say I buy the "zero maintenance" part. The spring will fatigue over time and have less tension. It might take a really long time, but it will happen eventually.
If steel doesn’t go above a certain stress limit it will never fatigue (S-N curve). I could believe that this will never go beyond that limit with such a short range of motion.
I don't believe that is that case. If a material is stressed within its elastic deformation range it will cycle indefinitely. Limiting straps and the slipping cam after certain stress and strain is applied can ensure that it will never be the case the case. Besides, depending on how they decide to price this part , it could be very cheap if not negligible cost to change, after all it's a couple springs and plastic brackets Most 20 year old passenger vehicles don't need their coil springs replaced because it's difficult to overload the system, compared to say a truck. Who is still riding around a 20 year old bike. It's not as if this part breaking down will make the bike inoperable, unlike many other innovations that do when standards change and replacement parts are unavailable
Whether or not the spring fatigues there's no such thing as zero maintenance, and it's also going to be user dependent. If you take care of your bike and follow all the torque specs maybe it can outlast the bike itself, but in my experience few people take care of their bikes and follow torque specs.
Bar none, one of the best technology presentations ever. I love it that the Cannondale lefty and the Slingshot bicycle historical tech is brought in. One went away in very short order, the other is still here literally decades later. I remember the Softride bicycle that has the seat attached to a bonded elastomer arm. I'm old enough, and remember back far enough that mountain bike trails were rare and travelled so seldom they would become over grown with vegetation. I would encourage all that would like to see MTB history to find and watch the old bicycle movie "Tread". Mountain biking was just taking off in the mainstream at that time and culture was in it's infancy. There were several printed paper magazines that were sold on stands at grocery stores back then. If only one could go back through that history and see some of the arguments about new tech, then come here today and compare the arguments about new tech.
Dutch guy here. As most people know we do a lot of commuting per bike here in the Netherlands, and we have had similar systems here for as long as I can remember. Probably since the '80's or '90's at least. You mostly see it on ladies-bikes that have a shopping-basket or baby-carrier mounted to the front of the bicycle, and it is meant to help keep the handlebars straight when the bike is parked on the side-stand in order to prevent the bike from tipping over with that extra weight on the front. It's a completely different purpose but practically the same system, with two springs that are connected to each side of the steering tube and the frame at the top of the front end. Funny to see it now being used as some sort of performance enhancement. I just hope they weren't able to patent it as it's really nothing new.
Seth I’ve been watching Berm Peak Express for well over a year now and just leaning, today, about your main channel. Do what you want with this information.
*It adds cost, weight, MAINTENANCE* It's just two springs on a band, the only time when you'll have to maintain it is when you'll snap the band, and even in that scenario I think the bike is going to work perfectly fine, though the springs may start bashing on the inside of the frame. ALSO: Dutch upright city bikes use this thing for years to keep handlebars nice and straight, although it's external and only with one spring. In my opinion, I would quite like it on my budget XC. The seating position is really good on that bike, though sometimes, when the terrain is not rough (street), I lean myself into upright position and only steer my bike with one finger. I think the KIS springs would make this "riding technique" easier.
So nice videos, dude. keep doing this. ~10 minutes is the best choice of how long video i am llooking for to watch after a hard business day. You style also is very nice. Glad to found your channel. Hello from friendly Russia!
I like the idea and functionality in concept. Having not ridden anything with it I can't say anything else. I would like to see this as an external option instead of frame integrated though. I feel like frame integration makes it feel very proprietary if it catches on. Having some frames with internal, and some with external adaptations of this would be the best moving forward if it becomes more common in my opinion.
I was in Copenhagen last year and noticed that many commuter bicycles there had an external system like this, just a spring atached to the frame and fork. It was nothing fancy or only seen on very high spec or new bikes (fair to say that most common bikes there are actually very well made). It made the bike more stable and somehow the general use of the bike more convenient, speaking of city use that is. I saw it as some type of steering assistence like cars have. Many of them also had some type of assisted braking, where there was something like a spring attached to the braking cable so it would prevent the brakes from getting blocked when too much force was applied. Interesting.
Very stoked about you being able to do something like a review on this. Looking back on the diamondback days I’m sure you wouldn’t have been able to get this.
This technology is for me a big upgrade. When I'm use it on my transport bike, It keeps my front carrier straight. It works very good. Only I use a version that I can't adjust after installing it. And it increases the control of my transport bike. I would say that they keep it on the bikes. Although I don't know if it's needed on mountainbikes.
Yes I found it informative a lot. Do I still want that to be a thing? No, as there is absolutely no need for it. "The fact that you can doesn't mean you should" - Something a lot of companies need to get into their head.
Seems like a great solution to help solve a problem that nobody is having while adding weight and complexity. This and headset routing can't go away fast enough, IMO.
I can certainly see the benefit of a Return To Centre (RTC) steering damper in a 4x4. Vehicles with significantly increased tire diameter can suffer steering instability issues, but just as you experienced at maximum tension, they cause the machine to fight the driver/rider with extra fatigue resulting when used for prolonged periods. I guess good for people who want it, but would be better as an optional accessory than a standard fitment.
I think it’s going to be on a lot of rec bikes because of how it’s easier to move around and provides a bit of stability. People who don’t ride a lot will enjoy it
I think this is an awesome concept and they executed it very well. I think its gonna turn out to be one of those things that some people will absolutely love and others will have no interest in ever using. And thats okay.
This has kinda been around already. My dad has an old bike with a spring attached to the downtube and fork and I've seen a few other bikes with that as well. I guess that's just kinda a more low tech version of the k.i.s. that wouldn't really do anything while mountainbiking. I think the k.i.s. is very interesting and could probably help, but I definitely can't afford a non-used bike
A ton of people have mentioned how cargo bikes and city bikes often have a similar feature. Also, dirtbikes! It's strange that it has taken this long for it to be tried on a mountain bike in this particular style.
Assuming you've already decided to make it. When applied to the bicycle, not the assembly, K.I.S.S. means you don't add parts that aren't needed. You are still welcome to add parts for performance looks and fun, but if they aren't required, they're not K.I.S.S.
Cargo bikes tend to use a similar system to keep the bar from flopping around while on their double kickstand. Keeps it stable while loading or unloading cargo.
Gimmick 100%... Coming from a motorcycle background I have never seen this, you rely on the geometry of the bike to centre the steering,. This is adding effective drag and so losing feel, like riding with a crappy or tight head bearing. If a bike is unstable on the bumpy stuff, play with the suspension angles / geometry, if that doesn't work then add a steering damper not self centering springs...
it makes sense on loaded bikes. And this is where i have seen this idea originally , on touring and trekking bikes with bipod kickstands and low riders.
Hearing you comment about people thinking "Just one more thing to break" made me think of Mitch Hedberg talking about escalators. Just like an escalator being out of order is just temporary stairs, this breaking it could easily be disengaged or taken out and you're left with a perfectly functioning bike. Sorry for the convenience, haha.
for 12 yrs I was a low-speed, Urban rider, THIS would be F'n Amazing on commuter/urban bikes cities like Denver, s.f., Reno, I can see this coming in handy on uphills when your front end is light. I need to look into that Syntace tech also....
I like the concept . The bars naturally turn left our right standing still . I have broke a collar bone with my front wheel turned to the left , locked and over the bars I went . This may have prevented that . Also I could see a benefit leaning the bike into turns and less of a bar movement .
So I reckon this is basically a “slack head tube angle emulator” at speed. It gives more self centering (usually achieved with caster) but avoids the pitfalls of slack head tubes like really long wheelbase. Interesting tech, might be snake oil (GT iDrive anyone?) but good to see innovation for sure
I think this will go the same way as Isospeed where future iterations get simplified. They’ll survey cyclists, likely racers, to see what settings they use most often, then have that be the “on” and have an off switch. Then, for the super high-end model, it’ll have it with a single setting always on and removing the adjustability, to cut down on the weight of the mechanism and the overall bike. Seeing how innovation in bike frames has plateaued outside of geo and material, it makes sense companies would start getting granular and try to fix smaller non-problematic issues like this.
Excellent review, this channel is very logical and rider-focused. I can never predict Seth's view or opinion unless it's solidly predictable. But I can always agree on some point made or make allowing concessions based on his piece. I don't like the KIS, but am intrigued to what an all season trail beast would make of it given they'd benefit the most. Bloody marvelous.
This is the best video explaining innovation I have ever seen. Only point I would add, this will assist beginners confidence when they don’t have developed balancing skills yet.
A fundamental aspect: can be disabled without harming regular functionality of the steering. The jokes about making it easier to load the bike in racks, as if this was something unimportant, certainly backfired because this is not at all a stupid thing but a really useful bonus.
5:06 This observation/ explanation/ demonstration really made it make sense to me. The connection of front and back is intriguing. Not just aiming a wheel, but bending the bike. Then this 7:17. People can joke all they want, this sounds like an excellent fringe benefit! This is the first video I've seen from this channel and I must say: Sir, please calm your eyebrows. 😄 Got more eyebrow movement than The Rock in his WWE days.
This is going to really help on city bikes, especially those with baskets, cause if you fill up the basket with stuff whenever you put the bike on its stand the front wheel spin around and the bike falls over.
"... and it's an innovation, that doesn't need a battery!" is for me the most honest and important comment to this new bike technology, he could have ever said! I'm honestly really very annoyed by all the electrical powered "innovations" (or stupid marketing trends, as I like to call them) in this industry in the last few years. e-MTBs, electronic gear-shifting systems, electronic adjustable seatposts etc, just to name a few. Far more expensive, more prone to failure, more ressource demanding (Li-Ion batteries, electronic components), no performance improvement compared to a well-adjusted mechanical counterpart. Bikes are mechanical vehicles and should allways stay this way!
My cargo bike has a similar system, but it's just a single elastic strip hooked into the back of the top of the fork. It's very nice for loading and unloading the bike, and being a long and heavy cargo ebike, the natural return to center from the geometry needs some help as well.
There was something like this back in the late 90s, early 00s. As I recall, it was aimed specifically at DH riding, and was inspired by Moto and flatland BMX. Difference though was, it kept the handlebars straight, but allowed the wheel to deflect a bit. This is definitely a much better approach.
I’m an adaptive rider. I have limited use of my right hand, and generally a weaker right arm. I’m excited to see how this could help riders like me. Nothing worse than eating a rock when your hand gets thrown off the bike 🤣
Watched a video once where if you try to ride a bike and force the steering wheel straight by locking it in place with something, the bike falls immediately, the bike stays stable because your little movements move the front wheel. Like you said around 4:05, just leaning one way makes the bike turn, keeping it stable. I’m pretty sure riding this bike with no hands would be borderline impossible with the system at 100%
Dutch bikes have this. Since decades. It's rather to stop bikes falling over when the stand is down. It doesn't feel good on a bike with a steep head angle. Dutch bikes have quite relaxed head angles and so to do modern mountain bikes. Motorcycles have dampers rather than return to center. I had a motorcycle with notched headset bearings that held the bike in a straight line. Felt way better after I replace them. I could imagine this is a geometry thing. You actually only steer a bicycle with the bars at low speed. At higher speeds it's down to the lean angles in the tires. On road motorcycles you actually have to steer in the opposite direction to get the bike to drop into the corner. I think this is actually a good idea.
When seth can make a better video for KIS than the people at canyon who are literally getting paid for it. Love it.
Because canyon was like kinda vague trying to make it seem so game changing for marketing
@@Zaque-TV They also missed an opportunity to call it the KISS-Keep it Straight Stupid
It definitely has a lot more credibility when Seth compliments it when canyon themselves promoting it 😄
Its not rocket science if you need Seth to understand canyon's contraption,,, well 😏
This is just a high respect customer response. No matter how many people they have in their team, a guy who rides everyday will be able to justify it more.
As someone who does a lot of hike-a-biking on steep, lumpy terrain, I think it would be kind of helpful in preventing the front wheel from annoyingly flopping around like it likes to do in certain situations.
I almost feel like some type of total lockout specially for hike a bike / bikepacking could be better.
Imo it will be needlessly jerking the wheel back which is sometimes not what you want.
Arm workouts
european trekking bikes had steering dampeners like this since the 90s. It is especially common on bikes that have bipod kickstands, so that the wheel does not flop either way.
Why don't u just ask yourself, how long u been doing what u do without this,really are u trolling
The effect of the end of your diamondback-sponsorship on your channel is as you said, more variety and I'm loving it
I think it's important to look at it as part of the entire system. You can run a fork with less offset, which would make the bike "twitchy", and then dial that back in with the KIS. The combination of the two could give you sharper handling without it being TOO sharp.
I had edited out a whole section of the video talking about this, thinking it might lose some viewers. You're absolutely on to something. With another option for affecting the bike's handling, we don't need to rely as much on geometry. It will be interesting to see what comes from this in the future.
@@SethsBikeHacks Perhaps more race-inspired geometry, taking us back full circle? Imagine fitting a '90s XC bike with this tech. Perhaps we'll begin seeing this paired with current XC geo.
Or you could, and bear with me here, just run a 44mm offset fork and skip all this KIS garbage.
@@SethsBikeHacks I fell from a mild brush with a tree against the tip of my bars on a steep xc bike; I wonder if this might have allowed me to straighten in time to avoid falling.
@@SethsBikeHacks No, he absolutely isn't onto something. This just goes to show that the two of you don't understand the first thing about steering geometry.
The thing that *actually* ensures a stable front end is the right ratio between steering axis, front-center, trail and offset.
Another benefit is that on bike's with really slack head tube angles, it can help reduce the floppy feeling of the front wheel when climbing.
Yes, and on big heavy ebikes this is also a huge benefit
I feel you! I have a Spectral 29 and that thing flops around at every stop! For my type of riding, I'd 100% love this system.
I think the real benefit of this is for bike storage! Not having the front wheel flop to the side would be a massive help
A short strap Velcro strap between the frame and front wheel can help with that
Not all innovations are for everyone. I could see this being very beneficial for riders that are with one arm. This might help with fatigue and keep the bike stable when riding.
bikepacking
it's not an innovation. It's an old idea, rehashed. Steering dampeners like this are not new.
@@Exgrmbl k
@@Exgrmbl its not a steering dampener
@@bencastellucci8823no, but spring isn't new idea also. You can see it on city bikes with heavy bucket on handlebars and on bikes tweaked for person with disability.
These videos always remind me that Seth can carry crazy speed on downhill through corners and tech-really talented rider
Thanks Diamondback for dropping as sponsor. So cool to see all what this industry has to offer!
This concept is like a century old. Used to be a spring from back of fork crown to underside of downtube on porteurs and other city bikes.
I remember taking those always off. Couldn't ride without hands while going long distances as a kid.
exactly right. It was common on touring and trekking bikes as well
i was searching for this comment haha. My sister has a cheap city bike from decathlon and it has this mechanism (but outside of the frame). Really anoying in my opinion but maybe Canyon made a better version of this...
Yeah and I've never liked them
Would have liked to hear more about how it feels jumping. Especially whips, bar turns and tables in the air
Yeah I would too! The bike was a size too large for me AND pretty much every jump I know of right now it straight up peanut butter. The pitfalls of filming in February.
@@SethsBikeHacks oh, did you accidentally order the extra small on accident instead of strider?
@@jacob.rausch 💀
@@SethsBikeHacks makes sense, You should do a follow up video riding the jump line at Berm Park when that gets running again in the spring/summer
Sam Pilgrim rides for Canyon now. Maybe he'll get his hands on one.
You know what? I like this. Maybe it is the future, but maybe it isn't. But I'm always happy to see attempts at novel innovations. As we approach "peak bike" these weird features are the only ways for companies to distinguish themselves from other brands.
I think we already reached peak bike some time ago.😉
it's not novel and it is not innovation. It's just a revamp of an old idea. Steering dampeners that work functionally like this can be found on euro trekking bikes since at least the 90s.
@@fatpinarellorider nah. Put bikes 10 years ago vs. current bikes on current competition, the 10 year old bikes are at a disadvantage. For people who are not competitive, basic bikes suffice.
@@Exgrmbl k
Try driving a car with zero degrees of caster and you would quit driving. If you tried racing a car with no caster you'd die within a year.
Give KIS to to some 2 or 3 year olds. I'll bet you a million bucks they learn bicycle riding faster. Just because you you can rides without self centering doesn't mean its not needed to rride even faster
Steering dampers are used on motorcycles for ages. They got stuck because they simply work. This is a bit different than a steering damper, but imagine the amount of unwanted steering on a tech trail, I can imagine it works quite well. Also I hate when the handlebar doesn't stay straight on a bike repair stand, I would definitely benefit from it :)
I love your honesty. I'm not a MTB'er per say, but your videos are always entertaining, and you are VERY good at putting everything into layman's terms. I like your open mindedness to accept controversial parts that work better than you anticipated, as well as your ability to see possible issues with new tech and expose it for the placebo they are. Keep up the great work.
I would like to see a „Maintenance“ Video of the KIS system. I know they claim that its maintenance-free but lets be real we all know we would take it apart at least once, so I’d like to see someone who has not actively worked on developing it take it apart and put it back together in real time. Maybe that would give another view on the whole complexity topic.
This is an old trick used on city bikes. When you park the bike by leaning it on a post, the front wheel turns in and the bike want to roll backwards and fall down. The centering spring keeps the wheel straight and the bike does not fall down. Helps too when using a kickstand. I tried it but removed it again after I found that riding no hands is difficult unless the speed is high. We won't know if the KIS is really beneficial on MTBs until it has been used for a while. Good video.
I have mixed feelings about this. I love the fact that mountain bikes are becoming machines that fly through the woods and we're experiencing comfort levels we never dreamed of on a mountain bike, but at the same time I don't like the fact that mountain bikes become more complicated and expensive by the season, the mountain biking scene is putting out snob vibes and that's a bad thing because a lot of people are out of it because of the price ranges. Seth "bike hacks" is such genuine biking thing because we want a culture where you don't run into the nearest bike shop at the first minor problem.The flip series gets so much love because it shows that you can still enjoy mountain biking on a budget, is possible. Please do more stuff like that before you lose touch with a big part of the mountain bikers that love you.Don't get me wrong I don't hate on your expensive fleet (you earned it) or on progress in general, but at some point it might become unrelatable for some of us.
Prices have nothing to do with being complicated or not, it's just that MTBs are prohibitely expensive because companies know that customers will buy at these exorbitant prices anyways. Absolutely mind-boggling that you can get a race-prepped motorcycle for less than an eMTB or even carbon MTB. Even my top of the line 100 hp naked bike (with options) cost less than 10k, which is a "realistic" price point for a good MTB. It shouldn't be like that, no mechanical parts on an MTB justify it being so fkn expensive..
@@DeFausti And even cheap carbon MTB are at price of new 125ccm. And eMTB starts at price of electro motocross bikes...
Meanwhile I'm still rocking a fully from 2009 and loving it.
@hey you more complicated bikes pushing us to get better, interesting point
alot of the people in the community certainly act like snobs and the ones in Germany are basically 95% snobs that shun you for having a Bulls bike / using an e-mtb / not owning a 'proper brand' bike or parts
but a good ol swing to the face with the quick release saddle quiets them up pretty fast and clears the trail of posers
I own a new spectral with k.i.s. it is awesome, it gives more control and confidence. The first time you feel it is weird, after you get back on a bike without it, you want it back, it is so much more comfortable. I cant wait to see it on more bikes
Seth, just stopped in to say I'm an avid budget bike rider. I took the Schwinn Boundary, stripped it to the frame, and upgraded everything. I'm not a serious mnt biker but do like riding some trails. I know you have high end bikes but I do love your flip bike videos and have become a fan from watching those!! This video was interesting to! I do like keeping up with all the new tech with mnt biking. I loved your back yard mnt bike trail videos! Keep the videos coming!
Heard about this like more than 9 months ago, haven't heard a thing until this channel brought it up again.
The question is if you can do a barspin, will it throw the bars back for you? Maybe Sam or Brad can test that out for Canyon.
haha, this might not be for you if you're into trail bike barspins, but it would probably get knocked way out of alignment.
Sammy P!!
Haha a half barspin self return suicide nohander.
No hander landers though
I did it with a tube
I can honestly say that this technology will have no impact on my ability to to a barspin.
WOW!
Something that I though is useless makes the bike handle easier in the corers.
That just made my brain open to the next level of new things. Thanks for sharing!
The tension in the bars basically gives you more leverage with which to swing the rear wheel out! Pretty cool. I also like that it prevents the bike's bars from flopping to one side as you load the bike up or simply lift it up; it's always been a pet peeve of mine when my bike falls over because the bars decided to swing over.
Just need a fool proof 'handbrake' now though when you stop on a hill given the wheels are kept in line?
@@steffenfrost995 a hefty elastic band wrapped around the brake lever and the grip does the job.
@@SugoDiGatto I'm curious if this is an actual suggestion, because you could actually have say one double wrapped on your grip for this purpose... I can see it could work but are you saying you actually do this in practise?!
@@steffenfrost995 I did this on my motorcycle when I was working underneath it, to make sure it wouldn't roll when I applied leverage to loosen a couple bolts; I have been carrying an elastic band inside the handlebars of my bicycle, but honestly I haven't been needing it, as one way or another the bike would stay where I put it, and it's less hassle to find a spot it stays in than it is to use the elastic brake, IMO (but I'm lazy).
@@steffenfrost995 a more elegant solution, would be to have a small prong of sorts that could slide between the brake lever and its housing when it is pulled, so that it wouldn't spring back in its resting position.
IIRC, some cargo bikes do have such a brake lever lock.
Hit the obstacle in the same way in the exact opposite direction LOL. Nice video, thanks for keeping it concise!
This has been around forever on old comuterbikes, at least in sweden. They put a spring between the front mudguard and the frame. It's useful when walking or parking your bike.
I'm actually thinking of getting a canyon with K.I.S. so this was really informative! thanks, Seth.
I like that it enables more hands free riding. Now I can text and ride.
i dont think it makes hand free riding easier. What makes a bike ride well while being hands free is more to do with correct adjustment of the headset bearings - if they are as smooth as possible while being as tight as possible, the fork will naturally want to go straight.
@@Exgrmbl
Blah, blah, blah. 🥱
You're no fun.
This looks like a great idea! My father owned a motorcycle suspension company for 20+ years and MTB riders used to say suspension would never make it on mountain bikes because of weight. And just a few years later look at the mtb market now. This may be for top performance bikes. Technology always evolves I wouldn’t be surprised if the accuracy of the tension improves and multiple models are produced
I was initially concerned about how to repair it but seeing it can be removed through the frame is cool.
I initially thought it wasn't user serviceable for some reason, but that's not the case. It's actually not too terrible removing and reinstalling it. It's actually much easier to reinstall the adjuster with the bike upside down.
I love watching Seth ride new bikes, and the old bikes. He's truely a RIPPER!!
Interesting product. In terms of the idea that the KIS system is effectively pushing the back end of the bike, I would guess that the effect is actually fairly minimal. But if it does actually have any noticeable effect then it's worth noting that there is a principal of "negative steering" where, particularly at speed, you turn the handlebars to the left to initiate a turn right and vice-versa. It's more prevalent on motorbikes where the wheel weights are heavier but if you really pay attention you naturally use this technique on pedal bikes as well. This is because the steering action works with the centrifugal force of the wheel to help lean the bike over going in to the turn. If those springs were providing any meaningful force on the tail of the bike then it would be in the wrong direction.
I thought about this too. Seth demonstrated the effect with a riderless bike hanging in mid-air. I don't think the size of springs used would be strong enough to overcome the weight of even a small rider and the traction of two tires in contact with the ground in influencing how the rear of the bike is going through a turn. To be clear, I am not bashing the component or Seth's evaluation of it, just making observations.
That's commonly referred to as "countersteering"
@@mtbikesam68 Yea, I don't buy the "control over the rear end" as anything but a placebo. Regardless of the strength of the springs the rear of the bike isn't something you can manually control, it's something that naturally follows you as the wheels turn forward. Manually controlling the rear means your rear wheel is skidding, and that's not something you actually want unless you're intentionally drifting, definitely not something you do on normal turns.
actually it wouldn't be a wrong direction. Doing oposite side overturne is called scandinavian flick, and help to move mass even more center of the actual turn
I’ve watched every video on Canyon KIS…you standing on that stool finally made it make sense
Who else is exited for the building season soon?
yes he needs to get back out there
Already is the building season
The season never ends. For riding and building. It just get's easier or more difficult that's all. :P
Exited from what?
Excited maybe ?
This feels like the next step above the Trek KnockBlock which I really have grown to love for predictability around the shop and while loading onto racks. I’m really digging this!
I hope Seth got paid well for this. His influence is crazy. Dozens of dentist are probably at the Canyon checkout screen before the video ends
I've been watching your stuff for the last 4days straight. Still ain't bored 😅
Good stuff dude 👌👌👌❤️
Reminds me of the Knock Blox on my Trek - didn’t know how much I hated it until it broke and now it’s not in my way any more 🤣 Definitely creating a solution to a problem that didn’t exist.
I have the same thinking. I don't like my Trek knock blocks but they exist because they wanted to have a close to straight down tube (which is of questionable value). I won't take out the knock block as annoying as they are. So, what is the problem they are trying to solve? We don't steer to turn at speed, we lean the bike. We steer to turn at low speed where Seth commented on this thing being annoying. I'm confident I would remove this from a bike if I ended up with it on a bike for some reason.
I could see the benefits of this technology! Especially for someone who may have a disability and struggles with balance while riding. I have an uncle with Parkinson’s disease who MTBs and I bet KIS would help him a lot, as he struggles with keeping momentum and balance while riding. Also, CrankBrothers sponsors a Polish MTBer who has one leg and can only use one of his arms, and he uses a steering damper when he rides to help keep his bars straight. It’s pretty fascinating to see where the new technology is heading. And I liked that you mentioned that is is one innovation that doesn’t involve a battery!
Watching you put the bike on the rack like that was a dream.
When I saw this in my feed I wanted to click away and not look at it. But I‘m glad I did because I actually like seeing where this will go. Definitely keen on trying it some time.
If you want to test, just tie an elastic string on handlebars to the center of the frame like a triangle and you will have exactly the same effect.
Exactly. I might try it with a bungee cord.
Total cost $1.25
This isn't an ideal MTB product, but it makes a lot of sense with porteur, cargo, or any basket bike or bike with front panniers. It also makes a big difference for those trailside Instagram pics and locking up at a rack, or at a stop light in traffic! Most of these things are also good reasons to have a dropper post on those bikes too!
All good reasons to have this type of equipment(velo orange and a few others sell aftermarket devices like this) on a commuter or city bike, but I trust your MTB expertise on it, because I don't ride off-road often.
I hope Canyon integrates this with their Ebikes and Cargo/City bikes, but usually you see these technologies hit the most expensive bikes in the lineup first, even if it might seem superfluous or silly.
Thanks for making this video!
So you talked about how a bike is normally self-stabilizing if you try to ride it without hands. My question is, does enabling this feature actually inhibit that? Could be an interesting test.
Exactly my thought, a bike with locked bars most definetly won’t stay stable by itself! How much this affects the whole system with a rider? Probably not much in most cases. I ride with very loose hands and let the front wheel find its own way around chunk, helps my wrist. Great way of thinking mate
Yes! It does inhibit riding without hands, or at least it did for me. I’m sure you could learn to do it with a little practice.
Riding my bike without hands is pretty fun but that's not what it's meant for. I would take that trade off. More stability in the chunk sounds good to me!
I do wonder how it affects handling during the very slow steep tech sections with hairpin turns and all that.
@@SethsBikeHacks what about 1 handed? I imagine it will be a little easier especially when braking.
@@SethsBikeHacks I think you'd be more inhibited from doing that than you realise. See Veritasium's video on bike (and motorbike) stability and cornering.
I could see it being useful for loading or on a city bike in a rack. It goes against how We balance a bike. We are constantly making tiny counter steering inputs to keep the bike upright. Plenty of comments on not being able to ride with no hands with this system. Watch Your front tire while riding with no hands. Lots of tiny little self correcting movements. The gyro effects of the wheels also helps.
Love it or hate it - I can't say I buy the "zero maintenance" part.
The spring will fatigue over time and have less tension. It might take a really long time, but it will happen eventually.
If steel doesn’t go above a certain stress limit it will never fatigue (S-N curve).
I could believe that this will never go beyond that limit with such a short range of motion.
I don't believe that is that case. If a material is stressed within its elastic deformation range it will cycle indefinitely. Limiting straps and the slipping cam after certain stress and strain is applied can ensure that it will never be the case the case.
Besides, depending on how they decide to price this part , it could be very cheap if not negligible cost to change, after all it's a couple springs and plastic brackets
Most 20 year old passenger vehicles don't need their coil springs replaced because it's difficult to overload the system, compared to say a truck. Who is still riding around a 20 year old bike. It's not as if this part breaking down will make the bike inoperable, unlike many other innovations that do when standards change and replacement parts are unavailable
Whether or not the spring fatigues there's no such thing as zero maintenance, and it's also going to be user dependent. If you take care of your bike and follow all the torque specs maybe it can outlast the bike itself, but in my experience few people take care of their bikes and follow torque specs.
@@SethsBikeHacks hey, how does this affect headset service? Does it fall out constantly or does it stay in place?
If you can't deal with having to maintain a bike then just don't buy anything
Bar none, one of the best technology presentations ever. I love it that the Cannondale lefty and the Slingshot bicycle historical tech is brought in. One went away in very short order, the other is still here literally decades later. I remember the Softride bicycle that has the seat attached to a bonded elastomer arm. I'm old enough, and remember back far enough that mountain bike trails were rare and travelled so seldom they would become over grown with vegetation.
I would encourage all that would like to see MTB history to find and watch the old bicycle movie "Tread". Mountain biking was just taking off in the mainstream at that time and culture was in it's infancy. There were several printed paper magazines that were sold on stands at grocery stores back then. If only one could go back through that history and see some of the arguments about new tech, then come here today and compare the arguments about new tech.
Dutch guy here. As most people know we do a lot of commuting per bike here in the Netherlands, and we have had similar systems here for as long as I can remember. Probably since the '80's or '90's at least. You mostly see it on ladies-bikes that have a shopping-basket or baby-carrier mounted to the front of the bicycle, and it is meant to help keep the handlebars straight when the bike is parked on the side-stand in order to prevent the bike from tipping over with that extra weight on the front. It's a completely different purpose but practically the same system, with two springs that are connected to each side of the steering tube and the frame at the top of the front end. Funny to see it now being used as some sort of performance enhancement. I just hope they weren't able to patent it as it's really nothing new.
Seth
I’ve been watching Berm Peak Express for well over a year now and just leaning, today, about your main channel. Do what you want with this information.
*It adds cost, weight, MAINTENANCE*
It's just two springs on a band, the only time when you'll have to maintain it is when you'll snap the band, and even in that scenario I think the bike is going to work perfectly fine, though the springs may start bashing on the inside of the frame.
ALSO: Dutch upright city bikes use this thing for years to keep handlebars nice and straight, although it's external and only with one spring.
In my opinion, I would quite like it on my budget XC. The seating position is really good on that bike, though sometimes, when the terrain is not rough (street), I lean myself into upright position and only steer my bike with one finger. I think the KIS springs would make this "riding technique" easier.
So nice videos, dude. keep doing this. ~10 minutes is the best choice of how long video i am llooking for to watch after a hard business day. You style also is very nice. Glad to found your channel. Hello from friendly Russia!
I like the idea and functionality in concept. Having not ridden anything with it I can't say anything else. I would like to see this as an external option instead of frame integrated though. I feel like frame integration makes it feel very proprietary if it catches on. Having some frames with internal, and some with external adaptations of this would be the best moving forward if it becomes more common in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure the Canyon video shows that an external options exists (or will be developed, I don't remember).
Just tie an elastic string on handlebars to the center of the frame like a triangle and you will have exactly the same effect.
I was in Copenhagen last year and noticed that many commuter bicycles there had an external system like this, just a spring atached to the frame and fork. It was nothing fancy or only seen on very high spec or new bikes (fair to say that most common bikes there are actually very well made). It made the bike more stable and somehow the general use of the bike more convenient, speaking of city use that is. I saw it as some type of steering assistence like cars have. Many of them also had some type of assisted braking, where there was something like a spring attached to the braking cable so it would prevent the brakes from getting blocked when too much force was applied. Interesting.
Very stoked about you being able to do something like a review on this. Looking back on the diamondback days I’m sure you wouldn’t have been able to get this.
This is perfect for when Seth eats his lunch no-handed.
This technology is for me a big upgrade.
When I'm use it on my transport bike, It keeps my front carrier straight. It works very good. Only I use a version that I can't adjust after installing it.
And it increases the control of my transport bike. I would say that they keep it on the bikes. Although I don't know if it's needed on mountainbikes.
Yes I found it informative a lot. Do I still want that to be a thing? No, as there is absolutely no need for it. "The fact that you can doesn't mean you should" - Something a lot of companies need to get into their head.
Seth, you are a legend, thank you for what you do!!
Seems like a great solution to help solve a problem that nobody is having while adding weight and complexity. This and headset routing can't go away fast enough, IMO.
I guess it might help stabilize the handle when you are doing wheelie without hands😂
Yoo fat biker vaibhav I am your subscriber since 2018
But can you ride normally without hands with this thing on?
I can certainly see the benefit of a Return To Centre (RTC) steering damper in a 4x4. Vehicles with significantly increased tire diameter can suffer steering instability issues, but just as you experienced at maximum tension, they cause the machine to fight the driver/rider with extra fatigue resulting when used for prolonged periods.
I guess good for people who want it, but would be better as an optional accessory than a standard fitment.
I think it’s going to be on a lot of rec bikes because of how it’s easier to move around and provides a bit of stability. People who don’t ride a lot will enjoy it
I think this is an awesome concept and they executed it very well. I think its gonna turn out to be one of those things that some people will absolutely love and others will have no interest in ever using. And thats okay.
This has kinda been around already. My dad has an old bike with a spring attached to the downtube and fork and I've seen a few other bikes with that as well. I guess that's just kinda a more low tech version of the k.i.s. that wouldn't really do anything while mountainbiking. I think the k.i.s. is very interesting and could probably help, but I definitely can't afford a non-used bike
A ton of people have mentioned how cargo bikes and city bikes often have a similar feature. Also, dirtbikes! It's strange that it has taken this long for it to be tried on a mountain bike in this particular style.
@@SethsBikeHacks Because it dos not work ;)
@@GrafRamolo
and even if it works, the benefits are marginal if they are even noticeable
Thanks Seth! When I heard about K.I.S. I was waiting for your video about it.
I feel like the K.I.S. system ignores the K.I.S.S. directive and there is a certain beauty (or annoyance) to that
That thing is about as simple as it gets. I think the engineers did subscribe to KISS
Assuming you've already decided to make it. When applied to the bicycle, not the assembly, K.I.S.S. means you don't add parts that aren't needed. You are still welcome to add parts for performance looks and fun, but if they aren't required, they're not K.I.S.S.
Cargo bikes tend to use a similar system to keep the bar from flopping around while on their double kickstand. Keeps it stable while loading or unloading cargo.
0:17 actually you turned your handlebars left
What?
@@litwanlazerdimfan badum tssss?
bad joke
@@budgetbiker7 oh now I get it 🤣
Such a great break down. Who else could have layed it out so well?
Gimmick 100%... Coming from a motorcycle background I have never seen this, you rely on the geometry of the bike to centre the steering,. This is adding effective drag and so losing feel, like riding with a crappy or tight head bearing. If a bike is unstable on the bumpy stuff, play with the suspension angles / geometry, if that doesn't work then add a steering damper not self centering springs...
it makes sense on loaded bikes. And this is where i have seen this idea originally , on touring and trekking bikes with bipod kickstands and low riders.
But why would this idea translate to a moto?
Hearing you comment about people thinking "Just one more thing to break" made me think of Mitch Hedberg talking about escalators. Just like an escalator being out of order is just temporary stairs, this breaking it could easily be disengaged or taken out and you're left with a perfectly functioning bike. Sorry for the convenience, haha.
I’m so happy Seth got a canyon
Congrats on your canyon sponsorship!
for 12 yrs I was a low-speed, Urban rider, THIS would be F'n Amazing on commuter/urban bikes cities like Denver, s.f., Reno, I can see this coming in handy on uphills when your front end is light.
I need to look into that Syntace tech also....
I like the concept . The bars naturally turn left our right standing still . I have broke a collar bone with my front wheel turned to the left , locked and over the bars I went . This may have prevented that . Also I could see a benefit leaning the bike into turns and less of a bar movement .
Look as a (intermediate) car mechanic I like this. It reminds me of well suspension components like your steering stabilizer.
So I reckon this is basically a “slack head tube angle emulator” at speed. It gives more self centering (usually achieved with caster) but avoids the pitfalls of slack head tubes like really long wheelbase. Interesting tech, might be snake oil (GT iDrive anyone?) but good to see innovation for sure
Great unbiased review, nice work Seth.
It’s easy to snicker at something like this. Thanks for proving me wrong and making me interested
Yet another insightful video! Well done, Seth!!
I think this will go the same way as Isospeed where future iterations get simplified. They’ll survey cyclists, likely racers, to see what settings they use most often, then have that be the “on” and have an off switch. Then, for the super high-end model, it’ll have it with a single setting always on and removing the adjustability, to cut down on the weight of the mechanism and the overall bike. Seeing how innovation in bike frames has plateaued outside of geo and material, it makes sense companies would start getting granular and try to fix smaller non-problematic issues like this.
Great idea i reckon, gives adjustment options for if your bike tends to oversteer or understeer
Seeing seth on a canyon makes me happy in a way
I would be very pleased to see canyon take on this legend!
Love your humour! If you fall flat on your face and the system is out of alignment, just fall flat on your face again!
Cool to see fresh content on true new tech
Excellent review, this channel is very logical and rider-focused. I can never predict Seth's view or opinion unless it's solidly predictable. But I can always agree on some point made or make allowing concessions based on his piece. I don't like the KIS, but am intrigued to what an all season trail beast would make of it given they'd benefit the most. Bloody marvelous.
That is so awesome. Coming from the motocross side feels like something I'd love to shred
This is the best video explaining innovation I have ever seen. Only point I would add, this will assist beginners confidence when they don’t have developed balancing skills yet.
A fundamental aspect: can be disabled without harming regular functionality of the steering. The jokes about making it easier to load the bike in racks, as if this was something unimportant, certainly backfired because this is not at all a stupid thing but a really useful bonus.
5:06 This observation/ explanation/ demonstration really made it make sense to me. The connection of front and back is intriguing. Not just aiming a wheel, but bending the bike.
Then this 7:17. People can joke all they want, this sounds like an excellent fringe benefit!
This is the first video I've seen from this channel and I must say: Sir, please calm your eyebrows. 😄 Got more eyebrow movement than The Rock in his WWE days.
This is going to really help on city bikes, especially those with baskets, cause if you fill up the basket with stuff whenever you put the bike on its stand the front wheel spin around and the bike falls over.
it allready excist for city bikes... The cheapest city bike of decathlon has a system like this...
"... and it's an innovation, that doesn't need a battery!" is for me the most honest and important comment to this new bike technology, he could have ever said! I'm honestly really very annoyed by all the electrical powered "innovations" (or stupid marketing trends, as I like to call them) in this industry in the last few years. e-MTBs, electronic gear-shifting systems, electronic adjustable seatposts etc, just to name a few.
Far more expensive, more prone to failure, more ressource demanding (Li-Ion batteries, electronic components), no performance improvement compared to a well-adjusted mechanical counterpart. Bikes are mechanical vehicles and should allways stay this way!
Excellent work . Definitely made me think different of this product
RUclips didnt show me this video. it usually recommends all your videos, because I watch them.
Let’s Gooooo! I’ve been waiting for Seth to do a video about this.
My cargo bike has a similar system, but it's just a single elastic strip hooked into the back of the top of the fork. It's very nice for loading and unloading the bike, and being a long and heavy cargo ebike, the natural return to center from the geometry needs some help as well.
There was something like this back in the late 90s, early 00s. As I recall, it was aimed specifically at DH riding, and was inspired by Moto and flatland BMX. Difference though was, it kept the handlebars straight, but allowed the wheel to deflect a bit.
This is definitely a much better approach.
I’m an adaptive rider. I have limited use of my right hand, and generally a weaker right arm. I’m excited to see how this could help riders like me. Nothing worse than eating a rock when your hand gets thrown off the bike 🤣
Watched a video once where if you try to ride a bike and force the steering wheel straight by locking it in place with something, the bike falls immediately, the bike stays stable because your little movements move the front wheel. Like you said around 4:05, just leaning one way makes the bike turn, keeping it stable. I’m pretty sure riding this bike with no hands would be borderline impossible with the system at 100%
Been doing a homemade jerryrigged version of this for ages. Glad to see someone doing this professionally.
Dutch bikes have this. Since decades. It's rather to stop bikes falling over when the stand is down. It doesn't feel good on a bike with a steep head angle. Dutch bikes have quite relaxed head angles and so to do modern mountain bikes. Motorcycles have dampers rather than return to center. I had a motorcycle with notched headset bearings that held the bike in a straight line. Felt way better after I replace them. I could imagine this is a geometry thing. You actually only steer a bicycle with the bars at low speed. At higher speeds it's down to the lean angles in the tires. On road motorcycles you actually have to steer in the opposite direction to get the bike to drop into the corner. I think this is actually a good idea.