It steers straight for you? WHY?! Canyon Bikes K.I.S. explained

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  • Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
  • Canyon's K.I.S. system keeps your handlebars straight with an adjustable spring, which doubles as a connection point between the front and rear of the bike.
    The fact that dirt bikes have used similar systems for years really says something. After all, the speed and travel of mountain bikes has been increasing steadily for decades now, and with Ebikes in the mix, so is their weight.
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Комментарии • 1,4 тыс.

  • @zwingler
    @zwingler 2 года назад +1075

    When seth can make a better video for KIS than the people at canyon who are literally getting paid for it. Love it.

    • @Zaque-TV
      @Zaque-TV 2 года назад +20

      Because canyon was like kinda vague trying to make it seem so game changing for marketing

    • @pattyhop8440
      @pattyhop8440 2 года назад +39

      @@Zaque-TV They also missed an opportunity to call it the KISS-Keep it Straight Stupid

    • @Kaydenkwokx
      @Kaydenkwokx 2 года назад +14

      It definitely has a lot more credibility when Seth compliments it when canyon themselves promoting it 😄

    • @Srt3D01-db-01
      @Srt3D01-db-01 Год назад +1

      Its not rocket science if you need Seth to understand canyon's contraption,,, well 😏

    • @rhyswilliams4893
      @rhyswilliams4893 Год назад +3

      This is just a high respect customer response. No matter how many people they have in their team, a guy who rides everyday will be able to justify it more.

  • @stanmustard7292
    @stanmustard7292 2 года назад +771

    As someone who does a lot of hike-a-biking on steep, lumpy terrain, I think it would be kind of helpful in preventing the front wheel from annoyingly flopping around like it likes to do in certain situations.

    • @SWFBrickbox
      @SWFBrickbox 2 года назад +17

      I almost feel like some type of total lockout specially for hike a bike / bikepacking could be better.

    • @zaelaporrou
      @zaelaporrou 2 года назад +3

      Imo it will be needlessly jerking the wheel back which is sometimes not what you want.

    • @erikmanousaridis1907
      @erikmanousaridis1907 2 года назад +4

      Arm workouts

    • @Exgrmbl
      @Exgrmbl 2 года назад +8

      european trekking bikes had steering dampeners like this since the 90s. It is especially common on bikes that have bipod kickstands, so that the wheel does not flop either way.

    • @joegomes1352
      @joegomes1352 2 года назад

      Why don't u just ask yourself, how long u been doing what u do without this,really are u trolling

  • @haemmertime
    @haemmertime 2 года назад +21

    The effect of the end of your diamondback-sponsorship on your channel is as you said, more variety and I'm loving it

  • @DullBoyJack
    @DullBoyJack 2 года назад +392

    I think it's important to look at it as part of the entire system. You can run a fork with less offset, which would make the bike "twitchy", and then dial that back in with the KIS. The combination of the two could give you sharper handling without it being TOO sharp.

    • @SethsBikeHacks
      @SethsBikeHacks  2 года назад +255

      I had edited out a whole section of the video talking about this, thinking it might lose some viewers. You're absolutely on to something. With another option for affecting the bike's handling, we don't need to rely as much on geometry. It will be interesting to see what comes from this in the future.

    • @icantgivecredit871
      @icantgivecredit871 2 года назад +11

      @@SethsBikeHacks Perhaps more race-inspired geometry, taking us back full circle? Imagine fitting a '90s XC bike with this tech. Perhaps we'll begin seeing this paired with current XC geo.

    • @meteormedia7021
      @meteormedia7021 2 года назад +11

      Or you could, and bear with me here, just run a 44mm offset fork and skip all this KIS garbage.

    • @Happy_Biker
      @Happy_Biker 2 года назад +1

      @@SethsBikeHacks I fell from a mild brush with a tree against the tip of my bars on a steep xc bike; I wonder if this might have allowed me to straighten in time to avoid falling.

    • @meteormedia7021
      @meteormedia7021 2 года назад +2

      ​@@SethsBikeHacks No, he absolutely isn't onto something. This just goes to show that the two of you don't understand the first thing about steering geometry.
      The thing that *actually* ensures a stable front end is the right ratio between steering axis, front-center, trail and offset.

  • @Stanley88845
    @Stanley88845 2 года назад +57

    Another benefit is that on bike's with really slack head tube angles, it can help reduce the floppy feeling of the front wheel when climbing.

    • @SethsBikeHacks
      @SethsBikeHacks  2 года назад +14

      Yes, and on big heavy ebikes this is also a huge benefit

    • @hambo76
      @hambo76 2 года назад +2

      I feel you! I have a Spectral 29 and that thing flops around at every stop! For my type of riding, I'd 100% love this system.

  • @slantedorbit
    @slantedorbit 2 года назад +39

    This concept is like a century old. Used to be a spring from back of fork crown to underside of downtube on porteurs and other city bikes.

    • @besticouldget
      @besticouldget 2 года назад +2

      I remember taking those always off. Couldn't ride without hands while going long distances as a kid.

    • @Exgrmbl
      @Exgrmbl 2 года назад +2

      exactly right. It was common on touring and trekking bikes as well

    • @nathanvrvrt
      @nathanvrvrt Год назад

      i was searching for this comment haha. My sister has a cheap city bike from decathlon and it has this mechanism (but outside of the frame). Really anoying in my opinion but maybe Canyon made a better version of this...

    • @hananas2
      @hananas2 7 месяцев назад

      Yeah and I've never liked them

  • @mileskemph8391
    @mileskemph8391 2 года назад +646

    Would have liked to hear more about how it feels jumping. Especially whips, bar turns and tables in the air

    • @SethsBikeHacks
      @SethsBikeHacks  2 года назад +451

      Yeah I would too! The bike was a size too large for me AND pretty much every jump I know of right now it straight up peanut butter. The pitfalls of filming in February.

    • @jacob.rausch
      @jacob.rausch 2 года назад +243

      @@SethsBikeHacks oh, did you accidentally order the extra small on accident instead of strider?

    • @linusmushroomtips776
      @linusmushroomtips776 2 года назад +46

      @@jacob.rausch 💀

    • @mileskemph8391
      @mileskemph8391 2 года назад +41

      @@SethsBikeHacks makes sense, You should do a follow up video riding the jump line at Berm Park when that gets running again in the spring/summer

    • @jonbartosch1903
      @jonbartosch1903 2 года назад +21

      Sam Pilgrim rides for Canyon now. Maybe he'll get his hands on one.

  • @harrisonward6258
    @harrisonward6258 2 года назад +63

    These videos always remind me that Seth can carry crazy speed on downhill through corners and tech-really talented rider

  • @justinwilliams7068
    @justinwilliams7068 2 года назад +264

    Not all innovations are for everyone. I could see this being very beneficial for riders that are with one arm. This might help with fatigue and keep the bike stable when riding.

    • @cjohnson3836
      @cjohnson3836 2 года назад +13

      bikepacking

    • @Exgrmbl
      @Exgrmbl 2 года назад +9

      it's not an innovation. It's an old idea, rehashed. Steering dampeners like this are not new.

    • @sepg5084
      @sepg5084 2 года назад

      @@Exgrmbl k

    • @bencastellucci8823
      @bencastellucci8823 2 года назад +14

      @@Exgrmbl its not a steering dampener

    • @mrblc882
      @mrblc882 Год назад +4

      @@bencastellucci8823no, but spring isn't new idea also. You can see it on city bikes with heavy bucket on handlebars and on bikes tweaked for person with disability.

  • @jasonw7053
    @jasonw7053 2 года назад +43

    I think the real benefit of this is for bike storage! Not having the front wheel flop to the side would be a massive help

    • @CThunderW
      @CThunderW Год назад +3

      A short strap Velcro strap between the frame and front wheel can help with that

  • @Arkkis27
    @Arkkis27 2 года назад +15

    Thanks Diamondback for dropping as sponsor. So cool to see all what this industry has to offer!

  • @askmeaboutmattweiner
    @askmeaboutmattweiner 2 года назад +197

    You know what? I like this. Maybe it is the future, but maybe it isn't. But I'm always happy to see attempts at novel innovations. As we approach "peak bike" these weird features are the only ways for companies to distinguish themselves from other brands.

    • @fatpinarellorider
      @fatpinarellorider 2 года назад +5

      I think we already reached peak bike some time ago.😉

    • @Exgrmbl
      @Exgrmbl 2 года назад +6

      it's not novel and it is not innovation. It's just a revamp of an old idea. Steering dampeners that work functionally like this can be found on euro trekking bikes since at least the 90s.

    • @sepg5084
      @sepg5084 2 года назад +1

      @@fatpinarellorider nah. Put bikes 10 years ago vs. current bikes on current competition, the 10 year old bikes are at a disadvantage. For people who are not competitive, basic bikes suffice.

    • @sepg5084
      @sepg5084 2 года назад

      @@Exgrmbl k

    • @janeblogs324
      @janeblogs324 2 года назад

      Try driving a car with zero degrees of caster and you would quit driving. If you tried racing a car with no caster you'd die within a year.
      Give KIS to to some 2 or 3 year olds. I'll bet you a million bucks they learn bicycle riding faster. Just because you you can rides without self centering doesn't mean its not needed to rride even faster

  • @bogdanvlad9165
    @bogdanvlad9165 2 года назад +95

    I have mixed feelings about this. I love the fact that mountain bikes are becoming machines that fly through the woods and we're experiencing comfort levels we never dreamed of on a mountain bike, but at the same time I don't like the fact that mountain bikes become more complicated and expensive by the season, the mountain biking scene is putting out snob vibes and that's a bad thing because a lot of people are out of it because of the price ranges. Seth "bike hacks" is such genuine biking thing because we want a culture where you don't run into the nearest bike shop at the first minor problem.The flip series gets so much love because it shows that you can still enjoy mountain biking on a budget, is possible. Please do more stuff like that before you lose touch with a big part of the mountain bikers that love you.Don't get me wrong I don't hate on your expensive fleet (you earned it) or on progress in general, but at some point it might become unrelatable for some of us.

    • @DeFausti
      @DeFausti Год назад +21

      Prices have nothing to do with being complicated or not, it's just that MTBs are prohibitely expensive because companies know that customers will buy at these exorbitant prices anyways. Absolutely mind-boggling that you can get a race-prepped motorcycle for less than an eMTB or even carbon MTB. Even my top of the line 100 hp naked bike (with options) cost less than 10k, which is a "realistic" price point for a good MTB. It shouldn't be like that, no mechanical parts on an MTB justify it being so fkn expensive..

    • @bmxrichard21
      @bmxrichard21 Год назад +2

      @@DeFausti And even cheap carbon MTB are at price of new 125ccm. And eMTB starts at price of electro motocross bikes...

    • @foobar201
      @foobar201 Год назад +1

      Meanwhile I'm still rocking a fully from 2009 and loving it.

    • @bogdanvlad9165
      @bogdanvlad9165 Год назад

      @hey you more complicated bikes pushing us to get better, interesting point

    • @hundkebab2433
      @hundkebab2433 Год назад +3

      alot of the people in the community certainly act like snobs and the ones in Germany are basically 95% snobs that shun you for having a Bulls bike / using an e-mtb / not owning a 'proper brand' bike or parts
      but a good ol swing to the face with the quick release saddle quiets them up pretty fast and clears the trail of posers

  • @richchilds8173
    @richchilds8173 Год назад +1

    I love your honesty. I'm not a MTB'er per say, but your videos are always entertaining, and you are VERY good at putting everything into layman's terms. I like your open mindedness to accept controversial parts that work better than you anticipated, as well as your ability to see possible issues with new tech and expose it for the placebo they are. Keep up the great work.

  • @PotatisSlottet
    @PotatisSlottet Год назад +5

    This has been around forever on old comuterbikes, at least in sweden. They put a spring between the front mudguard and the frame. It's useful when walking or parking your bike.

  • @jacklo325
    @jacklo325 2 года назад

    Heard about this like more than 9 months ago, haven't heard a thing until this channel brought it up again.

  • @HUKIT.
    @HUKIT. 2 года назад +19

    I was initially concerned about how to repair it but seeing it can be removed through the frame is cool.

    • @SethsBikeHacks
      @SethsBikeHacks  2 года назад +11

      I initially thought it wasn't user serviceable for some reason, but that's not the case. It's actually not too terrible removing and reinstalling it. It's actually much easier to reinstall the adjuster with the bike upside down.

  • @cycling_plurality
    @cycling_plurality 2 года назад +2

    Hit the obstacle in the same way in the exact opposite direction LOL. Nice video, thanks for keeping it concise!

  • @tolgaakyay
    @tolgaakyay Год назад +8

    Steering dampers are used on motorcycles for ages. They got stuck because they simply work. This is a bit different than a steering damper, but imagine the amount of unwanted steering on a tech trail, I can imagine it works quite well. Also I hate when the handlebar doesn't stay straight on a bike repair stand, I would definitely benefit from it :)

  • @billmacrae1924
    @billmacrae1924 Год назад

    This is an old trick used on city bikes. When you park the bike by leaning it on a post, the front wheel turns in and the bike want to roll backwards and fall down. The centering spring keeps the wheel straight and the bike does not fall down. Helps too when using a kickstand. I tried it but removed it again after I found that riding no hands is difficult unless the speed is high. We won't know if the KIS is really beneficial on MTBs until it has been used for a while. Good video.

  • @JB-1138
    @JB-1138 2 года назад +5

    I like that it enables more hands free riding. Now I can text and ride.

    • @Exgrmbl
      @Exgrmbl 2 года назад

      i dont think it makes hand free riding easier. What makes a bike ride well while being hands free is more to do with correct adjustment of the headset bearings - if they are as smooth as possible while being as tight as possible, the fork will naturally want to go straight.

    • @JB-1138
      @JB-1138 2 года назад +1

      @@Exgrmbl
      Blah, blah, blah. 🥱
      You're no fun.

  • @FROST_BYTE_VI
    @FROST_BYTE_VI 5 месяцев назад

    I'm actually thinking of getting a canyon with K.I.S. so this was really informative! thanks, Seth.

  • @icantgivecredit871
    @icantgivecredit871 2 года назад +24

    The tension in the bars basically gives you more leverage with which to swing the rear wheel out! Pretty cool. I also like that it prevents the bike's bars from flopping to one side as you load the bike up or simply lift it up; it's always been a pet peeve of mine when my bike falls over because the bars decided to swing over.

    • @steffenfrost995
      @steffenfrost995 2 года назад

      Just need a fool proof 'handbrake' now though when you stop on a hill given the wheels are kept in line?

    • @SugoDiGatto
      @SugoDiGatto 2 года назад

      @@steffenfrost995 a hefty elastic band wrapped around the brake lever and the grip does the job.

    • @steffenfrost995
      @steffenfrost995 2 года назад

      @@SugoDiGatto I'm curious if this is an actual suggestion, because you could actually have say one double wrapped on your grip for this purpose... I can see it could work but are you saying you actually do this in practise?!

    • @SugoDiGatto
      @SugoDiGatto 2 года назад

      @@steffenfrost995 I did this on my motorcycle when I was working underneath it, to make sure it wouldn't roll when I applied leverage to loosen a couple bolts; I have been carrying an elastic band inside the handlebars of my bicycle, but honestly I haven't been needing it, as one way or another the bike would stay where I put it, and it's less hassle to find a spot it stays in than it is to use the elastic brake, IMO (but I'm lazy).

    • @SugoDiGatto
      @SugoDiGatto 2 года назад

      @@steffenfrost995 a more elegant solution, would be to have a small prong of sorts that could slide between the brake lever and its housing when it is pulled, so that it wouldn't spring back in its resting position.
      IIRC, some cargo bikes do have such a brake lever lock.

  • @MTBweekly
    @MTBweekly 4 месяца назад

    I own a new spectral with k.i.s. it is awesome, it gives more control and confidence. The first time you feel it is weird, after you get back on a bike without it, you want it back, it is so much more comfortable. I cant wait to see it on more bikes

  • @alexpennie
    @alexpennie 2 года назад +6

    I hope Seth got paid well for this. His influence is crazy. Dozens of dentist are probably at the Canyon checkout screen before the video ends

  • @gronien1660
    @gronien1660 2 года назад +11

    I would like to see a „Maintenance“ Video of the KIS system. I know they claim that its maintenance-free but lets be real we all know we would take it apart at least once, so I’d like to see someone who has not actively worked on developing it take it apart and put it back together in real time. Maybe that would give another view on the whole complexity topic.

  • @corylandmark6752
    @corylandmark6752 2 года назад +150

    The question is if you can do a barspin, will it throw the bars back for you? Maybe Sam or Brad can test that out for Canyon.

    • @SethsBikeHacks
      @SethsBikeHacks  2 года назад +67

      haha, this might not be for you if you're into trail bike barspins, but it would probably get knocked way out of alignment.

    • @Ashnno
      @Ashnno 2 года назад +4

      Sammy P!!

    • @jonnysnakes5417
      @jonnysnakes5417 2 года назад +11

      Haha a half barspin self return suicide nohander.
      No hander landers though

    • @blakebikess
      @blakebikess 2 года назад

      I did it with a tube

    • @tagzedawg
      @tagzedawg 2 года назад +5

      I can honestly say that this technology will have no impact on my ability to to a barspin.

  • @travis_reill_writes
    @travis_reill_writes 2 года назад

    I’ve watched every video on Canyon KIS…you standing on that stool finally made it make sense

  • @tomward8057
    @tomward8057 2 года назад +7

    Seth, just stopped in to say I'm an avid budget bike rider. I took the Schwinn Boundary, stripped it to the frame, and upgraded everything. I'm not a serious mnt biker but do like riding some trails. I know you have high end bikes but I do love your flip bike videos and have become a fan from watching those!! This video was interesting to! I do like keeping up with all the new tech with mnt biking. I loved your back yard mnt bike trail videos! Keep the videos coming!

  • @davidbenfield7983
    @davidbenfield7983 2 года назад

    I love watching Seth ride new bikes, and the old bikes. He's truely a RIPPER!!

  • @mrragge7986
    @mrragge7986 2 года назад +142

    Who else is exited for the building season soon?

    • @aussiebiking
      @aussiebiking 2 года назад +2

      yes he needs to get back out there

    • @wesleymurphy9195
      @wesleymurphy9195 2 года назад +4

      Already is the building season

    • @inventiveowl395
      @inventiveowl395 2 года назад +8

      The season never ends. For riding and building. It just get's easier or more difficult that's all. :P

    • @baddriversofcolga
      @baddriversofcolga 2 года назад +3

      Exited from what?

    • @bighes100
      @bighes100 2 года назад

      Excited maybe ?

  • @gta5grindzxb145
    @gta5grindzxb145 Год назад

    Cargo bikes tend to use a similar system to keep the bar from flopping around while on their double kickstand. Keeps it stable while loading or unloading cargo.

  • @batmansdad4978
    @batmansdad4978 2 года назад +4

    Watching you put the bike on the rack like that was a dream.

  • @tattoosteve
    @tattoosteve Год назад

    I've been watching your stuff for the last 4days straight. Still ain't bored 😅
    Good stuff dude 👌👌👌❤️

  • @ronskopitz2360
    @ronskopitz2360 2 года назад +11

    Reminds me of the Knock Blox on my Trek - didn’t know how much I hated it until it broke and now it’s not in my way any more 🤣 Definitely creating a solution to a problem that didn’t exist.

    • @AlliKat75
      @AlliKat75 Год назад +2

      I have the same thinking. I don't like my Trek knock blocks but they exist because they wanted to have a close to straight down tube (which is of questionable value). I won't take out the knock block as annoying as they are. So, what is the problem they are trying to solve? We don't steer to turn at speed, we lean the bike. We steer to turn at low speed where Seth commented on this thing being annoying. I'm confident I would remove this from a bike if I ended up with it on a bike for some reason.

  • @YourNickIsTaken
    @YourNickIsTaken Год назад

    WOW!
    Something that I though is useless makes the bike handle easier in the corers.
    That just made my brain open to the next level of new things. Thanks for sharing!

  • @lucapiazza9617
    @lucapiazza9617 2 года назад +4

    This is perfect for when Seth eats his lunch no-handed.

  • @amore8325
    @amore8325 2 года назад +1

    I’m so happy Seth got a canyon

  • @FatBikerVaibhav
    @FatBikerVaibhav Год назад +19

    I guess it might help stabilize the handle when you are doing wheelie without hands😂

    • @vedanttoke20
      @vedanttoke20 Год назад +1

      Yoo fat biker vaibhav I am your subscriber since 2018

    • @XtreeM_FaiL
      @XtreeM_FaiL Год назад +2

      But can you ride normally without hands with this thing on?

  • @korn3701
    @korn3701 2 года назад +1

    When you upload more video in the other channel, I forgot that this main channel exist.

  • @RogerioCosta1.0
    @RogerioCosta1.0 2 года назад +13

    If you want to test, just tie an elastic string on handlebars to the center of the frame like a triangle and you will have exactly the same effect.

    • @JB-1138
      @JB-1138 2 года назад +6

      Exactly. I might try it with a bungee cord.
      Total cost $1.25

  • @jakegrigg4974
    @jakegrigg4974 2 года назад

    This feels like the next step above the Trek KnockBlock which I really have grown to love for predictability around the shop and while loading onto racks. I’m really digging this!

  • @Agedude
    @Agedude 2 года назад +31

    So you talked about how a bike is normally self-stabilizing if you try to ride it without hands. My question is, does enabling this feature actually inhibit that? Could be an interesting test.

    • @cancer8343
      @cancer8343 2 года назад +7

      Exactly my thought, a bike with locked bars most definetly won’t stay stable by itself! How much this affects the whole system with a rider? Probably not much in most cases. I ride with very loose hands and let the front wheel find its own way around chunk, helps my wrist. Great way of thinking mate

    • @SethsBikeHacks
      @SethsBikeHacks  2 года назад +23

      Yes! It does inhibit riding without hands, or at least it did for me. I’m sure you could learn to do it with a little practice.

    • @ItsATrap614
      @ItsATrap614 2 года назад

      Riding my bike without hands is pretty fun but that's not what it's meant for. I would take that trade off. More stability in the chunk sounds good to me!
      I do wonder how it affects handling during the very slow steep tech sections with hairpin turns and all that.

    • @ivonakis
      @ivonakis 2 года назад

      @@SethsBikeHacks what about 1 handed? I imagine it will be a little easier especially when braking.

    • @artgreen6915
      @artgreen6915 Год назад

      ​@@SethsBikeHacks I think you'd be more inhibited from doing that than you realise. See Veritasium's video on bike (and motorbike) stability and cornering.

  • @ЛёхаБукреев
    @ЛёхаБукреев Год назад

    So nice videos, dude. keep doing this. ~10 minutes is the best choice of how long video i am llooking for to watch after a hard business day. You style also is very nice. Glad to found your channel. Hello from friendly Russia!

  • @storm3016
    @storm3016 2 года назад +3

    Dutch guy here. As most people know we do a lot of commuting per bike here in the Netherlands, and we have had similar systems here for as long as I can remember. Probably since the '80's or '90's at least. You mostly see it on ladies-bikes that have a shopping-basket or baby-carrier mounted to the front of the bicycle, and it is meant to help keep the handlebars straight when the bike is parked on the side-stand in order to prevent the bike from tipping over with that extra weight on the front. It's a completely different purpose but practically the same system, with two springs that are connected to each side of the steering tube and the frame at the top of the front end. Funny to see it now being used as some sort of performance enhancement. I just hope they weren't able to patent it as it's really nothing new.

  • @bermshred
    @bermshred 2 года назад

    Seeing seth on a canyon makes me happy in a way

  • @DTSquared
    @DTSquared 2 года назад +5

    Interesting product. In terms of the idea that the KIS system is effectively pushing the back end of the bike, I would guess that the effect is actually fairly minimal. But if it does actually have any noticeable effect then it's worth noting that there is a principal of "negative steering" where, particularly at speed, you turn the handlebars to the left to initiate a turn right and vice-versa. It's more prevalent on motorbikes where the wheel weights are heavier but if you really pay attention you naturally use this technique on pedal bikes as well. This is because the steering action works with the centrifugal force of the wheel to help lean the bike over going in to the turn. If those springs were providing any meaningful force on the tail of the bike then it would be in the wrong direction.

    • @mtbikesam68
      @mtbikesam68 2 года назад

      I thought about this too. Seth demonstrated the effect with a riderless bike hanging in mid-air. I don't think the size of springs used would be strong enough to overcome the weight of even a small rider and the traction of two tires in contact with the ground in influencing how the rear of the bike is going through a turn. To be clear, I am not bashing the component or Seth's evaluation of it, just making observations.

    • @goldenking2046
      @goldenking2046 2 года назад +2

      That's commonly referred to as "countersteering"

    • @goldenking2046
      @goldenking2046 2 года назад +2

      @@mtbikesam68 Yea, I don't buy the "control over the rear end" as anything but a placebo. Regardless of the strength of the springs the rear of the bike isn't something you can manually control, it's something that naturally follows you as the wheels turn forward. Manually controlling the rear means your rear wheel is skidding, and that's not something you actually want unless you're intentionally drifting, definitely not something you do on normal turns.

    • @FranciszekDunajski
      @FranciszekDunajski 7 месяцев назад

      actually it wouldn't be a wrong direction. Doing oposite side overturne is called scandinavian flick, and help to move mass even more center of the actual turn

  • @banoodel5121
    @banoodel5121 2 года назад

    When I saw this in my feed I wanted to click away and not look at it. But I‘m glad I did because I actually like seeing where this will go. Definitely keen on trying it some time.

  • @thelifeofjessejames
    @thelifeofjessejames 2 года назад +10

    Seth, you are a legend, thank you for what you do!!

  • @edwin.jansen
    @edwin.jansen 2 года назад

    Love your humour! If you fall flat on your face and the system is out of alignment, just fall flat on your face again!

  • @VeloObscura
    @VeloObscura 2 года назад +23

    Love it or hate it - I can't say I buy the "zero maintenance" part.
    The spring will fatigue over time and have less tension. It might take a really long time, but it will happen eventually.

    • @jonathangraham1524
      @jonathangraham1524 2 года назад +6

      If steel doesn’t go above a certain stress limit it will never fatigue (S-N curve).
      I could believe that this will never go beyond that limit with such a short range of motion.

    • @TheJanope13
      @TheJanope13 2 года назад +1

      I don't believe that is that case. If a material is stressed within its elastic deformation range it will cycle indefinitely. Limiting straps and the slipping cam after certain stress and strain is applied can ensure that it will never be the case the case.
      Besides, depending on how they decide to price this part , it could be very cheap if not negligible cost to change, after all it's a couple springs and plastic brackets
      Most 20 year old passenger vehicles don't need their coil springs replaced because it's difficult to overload the system, compared to say a truck. Who is still riding around a 20 year old bike. It's not as if this part breaking down will make the bike inoperable, unlike many other innovations that do when standards change and replacement parts are unavailable

    • @SethsBikeHacks
      @SethsBikeHacks  2 года назад +6

      Whether or not the spring fatigues there's no such thing as zero maintenance, and it's also going to be user dependent. If you take care of your bike and follow all the torque specs maybe it can outlast the bike itself, but in my experience few people take care of their bikes and follow torque specs.

    • @epaquette06
      @epaquette06 2 года назад

      @@SethsBikeHacks hey, how does this affect headset service? Does it fall out constantly or does it stay in place?

    • @casscroute8706
      @casscroute8706 2 года назад

      If you can't deal with having to maintain a bike then just don't buy anything

  • @alexkates5327
    @alexkates5327 Год назад

    This looks like a great idea! My father owned a motorcycle suspension company for 20+ years and MTB riders used to say suspension would never make it on mountain bikes because of weight. And just a few years later look at the mtb market now. This may be for top performance bikes. Technology always evolves I wouldn’t be surprised if the accuracy of the tension improves and multiple models are produced

  • @martinlauber9241
    @martinlauber9241 2 года назад

    Very stoked about you being able to do something like a review on this. Looking back on the diamondback days I’m sure you wouldn’t have been able to get this.

  • @UnrivaledPiercer
    @UnrivaledPiercer 2 года назад +13

    I like the idea and functionality in concept. Having not ridden anything with it I can't say anything else. I would like to see this as an external option instead of frame integrated though. I feel like frame integration makes it feel very proprietary if it catches on. Having some frames with internal, and some with external adaptations of this would be the best moving forward if it becomes more common in my opinion.

    • @thomas6244
      @thomas6244 2 года назад

      I'm pretty sure the Canyon video shows that an external options exists (or will be developed, I don't remember).

    • @RogerioCosta1.0
      @RogerioCosta1.0 2 года назад +2

      Just tie an elastic string on handlebars to the center of the frame like a triangle and you will have exactly the same effect.

    • @adrianrodriguezvazquez4075
      @adrianrodriguezvazquez4075 2 года назад +2

      I was in Copenhagen last year and noticed that many commuter bicycles there had an external system like this, just a spring atached to the frame and fork. It was nothing fancy or only seen on very high spec or new bikes (fair to say that most common bikes there are actually very well made). It made the bike more stable and somehow the general use of the bike more convenient, speaking of city use that is. I saw it as some type of steering assistence like cars have. Many of them also had some type of assisted braking, where there was something like a spring attached to the braking cable so it would prevent the brakes from getting blocked when too much force was applied. Interesting.

  • @andybarbo
    @andybarbo 2 года назад

    Seth
    I’ve been watching Berm Peak Express for well over a year now and just leaning, today, about your main channel. Do what you want with this information.

  • @petrsalek984
    @petrsalek984 2 года назад +12

    *It adds cost, weight, MAINTENANCE*
    It's just two springs on a band, the only time when you'll have to maintain it is when you'll snap the band, and even in that scenario I think the bike is going to work perfectly fine, though the springs may start bashing on the inside of the frame.
    ALSO: Dutch upright city bikes use this thing for years to keep handlebars nice and straight, although it's external and only with one spring.
    In my opinion, I would quite like it on my budget XC. The seating position is really good on that bike, though sometimes, when the terrain is not rough (street), I lean myself into upright position and only steer my bike with one finger. I think the KIS springs would make this "riding technique" easier.

  • @michaelajlawlor
    @michaelajlawlor 2 года назад

    I could see the benefits of this technology! Especially for someone who may have a disability and struggles with balance while riding. I have an uncle with Parkinson’s disease who MTBs and I bet KIS would help him a lot, as he struggles with keeping momentum and balance while riding. Also, CrankBrothers sponsors a Polish MTBer who has one leg and can only use one of his arms, and he uses a steering damper when he rides to help keep his bars straight. It’s pretty fascinating to see where the new technology is heading. And I liked that you mentioned that is is one innovation that doesn’t involve a battery!

  • @betweenyourloveandmine
    @betweenyourloveandmine 2 года назад +4

    This has kinda been around already. My dad has an old bike with a spring attached to the downtube and fork and I've seen a few other bikes with that as well. I guess that's just kinda a more low tech version of the k.i.s. that wouldn't really do anything while mountainbiking. I think the k.i.s. is very interesting and could probably help, but I definitely can't afford a non-used bike

    • @SethsBikeHacks
      @SethsBikeHacks  2 года назад +5

      A ton of people have mentioned how cargo bikes and city bikes often have a similar feature. Also, dirtbikes! It's strange that it has taken this long for it to be tried on a mountain bike in this particular style.

    • @GrafRamolo
      @GrafRamolo 2 года назад +3

      @@SethsBikeHacks Because it dos not work ;)

    • @Exgrmbl
      @Exgrmbl 2 года назад

      @@GrafRamolo
      and even if it works, the benefits are marginal if they are even noticeable

  • @cimracer
    @cimracer 2 года назад +1

    Great idea i reckon, gives adjustment options for if your bike tends to oversteer or understeer

  • @robbarchard
    @robbarchard 2 года назад +7

    I feel like the K.I.S. system ignores the K.I.S.S. directive and there is a certain beauty (or annoyance) to that

    • @paulkahlke2291
      @paulkahlke2291 2 года назад +1

      That thing is about as simple as it gets. I think the engineers did subscribe to KISS

    • @robbarchard
      @robbarchard 2 года назад

      Assuming you've already decided to make it. When applied to the bicycle, not the assembly, K.I.S.S. means you don't add parts that aren't needed. You are still welcome to add parts for performance looks and fun, but if they aren't required, they're not K.I.S.S.

  • @unsaved_
    @unsaved_ Год назад +1

    Ngl I think i would love to have this on my roadbike. The stability it seems to give at high speeds could really be a great addition.

    • @andrewthag
      @andrewthag Год назад +1

      I was thinking the exact same thing, I went from road bike racing to sportbike racing once I got my license lol, but improvement motorcycle wise atleast

  • @budgetbiker7
    @budgetbiker7 2 года назад +4

    0:17 actually you turned your handlebars left

  • @icejunki
    @icejunki Год назад

    Such a great break down. Who else could have layed it out so well?

  • @itsmebougie
    @itsmebougie Год назад +3

    I think it’s going to be on a lot of rec bikes because of how it’s easier to move around and provides a bit of stability. People who don’t ride a lot will enjoy it

  • @Mclovinthedank
    @Mclovinthedank 2 года назад

    RUclips didnt show me this video. it usually recommends all your videos, because I watch them.

  • @Farlig69
    @Farlig69 2 года назад +12

    Gimmick 100%... Coming from a motorcycle background I have never seen this, you rely on the geometry of the bike to centre the steering,. This is adding effective drag and so losing feel, like riding with a crappy or tight head bearing. If a bike is unstable on the bumpy stuff, play with the suspension angles / geometry, if that doesn't work then add a steering damper not self centering springs...

    • @Exgrmbl
      @Exgrmbl 2 года назад

      it makes sense on loaded bikes. And this is where i have seen this idea originally , on touring and trekking bikes with bipod kickstands and low riders.

    • @Clynikal
      @Clynikal 2 года назад

      But why would this idea translate to a moto?

  • @itsmee0075
    @itsmee0075 2 года назад

    I would be very pleased to see canyon take on this legend!

  • @mich_ael0
    @mich_ael0 2 года назад

    Congrats on your canyon sponsorship!

  • @DevE84
    @DevE84 2 года назад

    That is so awesome. Coming from the motocross side feels like something I'd love to shred

  • @ValueAdd-Dad
    @ValueAdd-Dad 7 месяцев назад

    Lol. "You want to go back to where it happened and fall in the same place.....perfectly alignment" I spit my water out.

  • @Schnabulation
    @Schnabulation 2 года назад

    Thanks Seth! When I heard about K.I.S. I was waiting for your video about it.

  • @randallmason9687
    @randallmason9687 Год назад

    I could see it being useful for loading or on a city bike in a rack. It goes against how We balance a bike. We are constantly making tiny counter steering inputs to keep the bike upright. Plenty of comments on not being able to ride with no hands with this system. Watch Your front tire while riding with no hands. Lots of tiny little self correcting movements. The gyro effects of the wheels also helps.

  • @spdrcr2
    @spdrcr2 2 года назад

    It’s easy to snicker at something like this. Thanks for proving me wrong and making me interested

  • @IRDeezlSmoke
    @IRDeezlSmoke Год назад

    Bar none, one of the best technology presentations ever. I love it that the Cannondale lefty and the Slingshot bicycle historical tech is brought in. One went away in very short order, the other is still here literally decades later. I remember the Softride bicycle that has the seat attached to a bonded elastomer arm. I'm old enough, and remember back far enough that mountain bike trails were rare and travelled so seldom they would become over grown with vegetation.
    I would encourage all that would like to see MTB history to find and watch the old bicycle movie "Tread". Mountain biking was just taking off in the mainstream at that time and culture was in it's infancy. There were several printed paper magazines that were sold on stands at grocery stores back then. If only one could go back through that history and see some of the arguments about new tech, then come here today and compare the arguments about new tech.

  • @KaSwipeSter
    @KaSwipeSter Год назад

    Look as a (intermediate) car mechanic I like this. It reminds me of well suspension components like your steering stabilizer.

  • @KoroWerks
    @KoroWerks 2 года назад +1

    This isn't an ideal MTB product, but it makes a lot of sense with porteur, cargo, or any basket bike or bike with front panniers. It also makes a big difference for those trailside Instagram pics and locking up at a rack, or at a stop light in traffic! Most of these things are also good reasons to have a dropper post on those bikes too!
    All good reasons to have this type of equipment(velo orange and a few others sell aftermarket devices like this) on a commuter or city bike, but I trust your MTB expertise on it, because I don't ride off-road often.
    I hope Canyon integrates this with their Ebikes and Cargo/City bikes, but usually you see these technologies hit the most expensive bikes in the lineup first, even if it might seem superfluous or silly.
    Thanks for making this video!

  • @madmartian2
    @madmartian2 Год назад

    5:06 This observation/ explanation/ demonstration really made it make sense to me. The connection of front and back is intriguing. Not just aiming a wheel, but bending the bike.
    Then this 7:17. People can joke all they want, this sounds like an excellent fringe benefit!
    This is the first video I've seen from this channel and I must say: Sir, please calm your eyebrows. 😄 Got more eyebrow movement than The Rock in his WWE days.

  • @leeretaschen231
    @leeretaschen231 7 месяцев назад

    Seems like a great solution to help solve a problem that nobody is having while adding weight and complexity. This and headset routing can't go away fast enough, IMO.

  • @lagwall
    @lagwall 2 года назад

    Cool to see fresh content on true new tech

  • @monkeyfighterides3153
    @monkeyfighterides3153 2 года назад

    Yet another insightful video! Well done, Seth!!

  • @andygrace3825
    @andygrace3825 2 года назад

    Great unbiased review, nice work Seth.

  • @noway4523
    @noway4523 Год назад +1

    props for pointing out that this is an innovation "without a battery"

  • @mitkoshredder
    @mitkoshredder 2 года назад

    Yes I found it informative a lot. Do I still want that to be a thing? No, as there is absolutely no need for it. "The fact that you can doesn't mean you should" - Something a lot of companies need to get into their head.

  • @sirslothyy
    @sirslothyy 2 года назад

    the riding clips, those i love. I wanna see a full riding sesh please

  • @aiztinik
    @aiztinik 2 года назад

    Seth and Canyon something I thought wont never witness

  • @stevencole7331
    @stevencole7331 2 года назад

    I like the concept . The bars naturally turn left our right standing still . I have broke a collar bone with my front wheel turned to the left , locked and over the bars I went . This may have prevented that . Also I could see a benefit leaning the bike into turns and less of a bar movement .

  • @Srt3D01-db-01
    @Srt3D01-db-01 Год назад

    Lol first seconds into the video and you already summarize most of bicycle trends right now

  • @brandoncalderon2551
    @brandoncalderon2551 Год назад

    As soon as I saw Seth hang the bike like that I was sold.

  • @DigitalJedi
    @DigitalJedi 2 года назад

    My cargo bike has a similar system, but it's just a single elastic strip hooked into the back of the top of the fork. It's very nice for loading and unloading the bike, and being a long and heavy cargo ebike, the natural return to center from the geometry needs some help as well.

  • @Knackebrot
    @Knackebrot Год назад +1

    The folding bike I've bought as a car replacement also has this, so that it isn't actually annoying to fold it.

  • @Ian_Schneider
    @Ian_Schneider 2 года назад

    Let’s Gooooo! I’ve been waiting for Seth to do a video about this.

  • @Mapdec
    @Mapdec Год назад

    Good vid Seth. I am a critic of the design. Mostly because of priorities. I wish Canyon could get on top of their QC, service and costs before spending time on things like this.

  • @maxjbryan
    @maxjbryan 2 года назад +1

    i love doing xups with the kis system

  • @kandinrobinson2090
    @kandinrobinson2090 Год назад

    This is the best video explaining innovation I have ever seen. Only point I would add, this will assist beginners confidence when they don’t have developed balancing skills yet.

  • @mohedaicebear
    @mohedaicebear 2 года назад

    thast really cool to be able to control the back of the bike kinda changes the turning radius in a way, i think this could rlly go somewhere.

  • @nathanbarford
    @nathanbarford Год назад

    I can certainly see the benefit of a Return To Centre (RTC) steering damper in a 4x4. Vehicles with significantly increased tire diameter can suffer steering instability issues, but just as you experienced at maximum tension, they cause the machine to fight the driver/rider with extra fatigue resulting when used for prolonged periods.
    I guess good for people who want it, but would be better as an optional accessory than a standard fitment.

  • @thomaso6579
    @thomaso6579 Год назад +1

    This is going to really help on city bikes, especially those with baskets, cause if you fill up the basket with stuff whenever you put the bike on its stand the front wheel spin around and the bike falls over.

    • @nathanvrvrt
      @nathanvrvrt Год назад

      it allready excist for city bikes... The cheapest city bike of decathlon has a system like this...

  • @chadb2077
    @chadb2077 Год назад +1

    I think this is an awesome concept and they executed it very well. I think its gonna turn out to be one of those things that some people will absolutely love and others will have no interest in ever using. And thats okay.

  • @mtb_nick1588
    @mtb_nick1588 2 года назад +1

    Haha loved the "they fly now" reference

  • @Azeazezar
    @Azeazezar Год назад +1

    Been doing a homemade jerryrigged version of this for ages. Glad to see someone doing this professionally.