Here’s another thing I left out. Reviewers could make a few bullet points when accepting products for review (many, in fact, do this). “After we review your product, it can be sent back at your request by emailing a shipping label, or after 3 months we will donate it to an organization or individual”.
I’d be careful with that. Often such companies have their own contractual constraints for reviews. Your own criteria as reviewers might conflict with that and large companies definitely will not go into negotiations over this. However, I do agree that something along those lines should be done. And companies should actually include such clauses in their terms and conditions as a standard.
@@mudkayak6305 Say you’ll donate the parts on behalf of the company. When you do donate, make sure to note that the drivetrain is donated on behalf of SRAM, etc.
I'm a professional reviewer and even I didn't realize it was this similar across different industries. I don't review bikes or anything remotely related to bikes and we go through basically the same process. It's actually kind of a relief to see other people dealing with the same 'issue'. Great video!
The reviewers could each have a simple line added in their "contract" stating that any product left after X days is now considered their property to do what they will with. Great video as always!!
I remember Linus Tech Tips speaking about similar situations, he quite honest about selling/giving excess items to staff, they've also mentioned things over the years that are exactly the same as this situation where the company just hasn't tried to get it returned to the item has just sat there waiting. Sounds like a bit of a pain in the butt when it's something pricey!
in the end i assume they just dont want it sent back, its like when amazon fucks up sends you 2 items and then says you can keep it or pay shipping to send it back... well OBVS going to keep it lol
There's also the question of price, when we're talking about larger companies like LTT. It's really expensive to keep a large inventory on hand. You need the buildings to store the stuff in (costs taxes and in some cases rent), and the employees who keep track of the stuff (and possibly also a paid inventory system).
When I worked in the bike industry over 12 years ago, I was in the same situation. I was a “reviewer” of sorts, but more for creating technical service protocols based on my mechanical experience working on bikes since 1996 (yep, I’m old). Ive had numerous parts, but the most notable things were a prototype complete downhill bike, several xc full-suspension frames, several complete xc hardtails, and more than a handful of forks. In all cases, as Seth mentioned, the manufacturer contact was MIA, but in about 80% of the cases, I was able to get a hold of someone else, and in all cases, they just said to keep the product another season or two before “disposing” of it at my discretion. In other words, it was mine but I was not allowed to give/sell until a new version had already been released.
Prototypes are examples of things that SHOULD NOT be forwarded to members of the public. This stuff needs to go back to the manufacturer or destroyed. Too much liability involved.
This is one reason I keep coming back to this channel, even though I rarely do trail riding. Seth has always been very open and transparent with everything he does, and this was a video I wasn't expecting. Very odd but understandable setup that the industry as a whole has fallen into.
Seth, I LOVE this video! I know it takes a TON of time, planning and editing to put together your videos and story time videos are awesome! It's a great balance between all your other great videos and now adding story time with your expertise makes it 10x better. Thanks for all you do!
Seth, as a vet and a volunteer at the HUBS CoOp in Huntsville AL, I really appreciate this and your recent donation to the Dirt Therapy Project. We all enjoy the fun of bike as a hobby, but bikes can provide more than the fun, it's transportation to jobs and stores, or as you highlighted before, therapy for our Armed Forces. If you ever want to rid your shed or parts bin of excess gear, I'd be happy to pick it up for a good cause
This kind of content is why you're everybody's favorite guy on Biketube, seriously. You are a true man of the people and we're all super lucky to have you involved in the industry and making awesome content for us!
I can 100% say the "donate it" solution would work! My company makes literally thousands of products for R&D testing and us employees are strongly encouraged to donate the tools to anyone who would use them or they will be thrown away. And, of course, we are NOT allowed to sell the products ourselves or through a proxy. Anyone caught doing this is liable to be fired.
They should donate these things to local junior racing and riding programs. As a junior rider who works in the industry I’ve been lucky enough to have some awesome people give me awesome parts because they’re not using them and trust me, it can change a kids life. Biking is an awesome sport, but it’s also an expensive sport and the more we can help kids get access to good gear, that does exist, the more kids we’ll have on bikes.
Yeah, a good rule would be to allow donations to whoever/whomever you see suitable. A mtb club, a junior team, a bike park, a rent bike, whatever that brings it back to the sport.
my high school team actually just got a big donation from someone who had accumulated review parts. They’ll definitely see use, we’re constantly breaking stuff
@@MTBrider_2009 The high schools here Virginia near the Blue Ridge Mountains have mtb teams. Sometimes they have a home course that is used by them exclusively (or with permission if you know somebody). I just saw a team practicing on local trails yesterday. Probably 25 kids. Since it is a mountain biking community they get parts and bikes donated all the time.
We actually do like these videos, Seth, you have become a trusted voice, a true ambassador of Mountain Biking. I think you have a wealth of experience and knowledge of bike culture to share with the larger group. Cheers!
Through the several states of bike shops I've worked in, there was always a local or state statute of "abandoned property". This is generally a by-law in every state, and the shops I worked in had this posted as part of the repair rider. The time limit was one year from the date of when the business agreement transpired. After one year, the object could be considered abandoned and became the property of the business to dispose of as they saw fit. This length of time is dictated by your local statutes, so do the research for where you live. Seth, this could apply to those items you have, check your local statues.
Though as you said this is not true everywhere, in many states abandoned property never ceases to have an owner. What actually happens is that if the property has been demonstrably taken care of by another person for x amount of years than that person becomes the new owner, but there can never be no owner.
Right, but the whole review industry is resting on kinda weird conventions. Most reviewers probably worry about being "that guy who stole our bike that one time." Nobody's going to send That Guy any more equipment!
You're right, but you have to file something with your state to claim abandoned property, so there's still work involved (even if it exceeds state statute).
There is a difference between something being legal and something being cool with the people who send you sh!t to review. It's more about not offending the golden goose than about legal ramifications.
I live near the HQ for some of big bike companies. I told a friend of mine about how kids used to jump the fence and grab parts and build up bikes. Parts that were being junked. He replied that he worked for one of those companies. The companies found out about people grabbing parts so they started running over parts, frames and whole bikes with a forklift. When things were discontinued huge lots of stuff would get smashed. I have zero doubt that they have no interest in getting this stuff back.
That's just a shitty thing to do. I don't care what their justification is, the bike companies can find a much better way of dealing with excess inventory. I hope that's not MY bike's company? I live near a few bike HQ's as well. You're not near Golden, CO by chance are you??
Nope. Not near golden. One big issue was liability. If they are knowingly letting kids grab stuff they could eventually be sued when some kid gets hurt. Either using the equipment or jumping the fence. We can argue whether that sort of lawsuit makes sense. But I don’t think anyone would argue that such lawsuits would happen.
I’ll add: my friend was a kid working in the warehouse at the time. He was putting every dime he earned into building his dream bike. He had little sympathy for people stealing, even if it was inventory that was going to be scrapped. And even if it was kids building their own bikes. This was pre eBay. Today it’s clear that that inventory would be grabbed and sold. So while I liked the whole Robin Hood nature of the kids grabbing what they needed, I see why they went the route they did. It would be great if they had donated stuff. But writing off inventory and donating it is the same as far as taxes, as far as I see. And writing it off is easier.
I love the fact that you even made this video. I think if you have been around bikes/the industry for a while, we know it happens, but definitely "unspoken". Cudo's to you Seth for even talking about it!!
Actually super cool that Seth brought this up and just talks about it **AND** offers a real, reasonable solution. This nebulous gear situation exists in pretty much every industry, especially the outdoor industry. My experience is with sea kayaks, and honestly even before RUclips and such, this was an issue. Kayakers get signed as "team" or "pro" paddlers for a brand, they go to a x-number of events a year and bring extra boats with them for people to try, but after a couple years the new boat comes out, the "team paddler" leaves the team, etc. And now someone has a collection of 16-foot+ kayaks sitting in their yard, and yeah, as expensive as shipping a bike is, just imagine shipping a 17-foot carbon-kevlar sea kayak... Unless it's a very in-demand boat, the brand is not interested in the hassle of getting that thing back. Worst part with something like kayaks is that, in many states, you need to register them as personal watercraft, which means to pass them on there needs to be a bill of sale. How do you sell/donate something that you don't own and that might in fact be illegal to use without the paper trail saying you do/did? Anyway, good on Seth for just putting it out there. It's helpful, and it means a lot of stuff will get into the hands of organizations and empty-pocket cyclists instead of being mothballed.
Great video Seth…. Love the transparency and the angle you took with this. I donate many bits and pieces as I upgrade my bikes. Two wins there: the giver feels good and the receiver feels good. My local MTB community is great for this, and so seeing somebody with the influence you have do a video like this is fantastic….
THANK YOU for saying the right thing, which is that the companies owe it to society to allow any parts over a year old to be donated. We've already heard from many folks on here that the companies will have already written off the parts. The Bike Co-Op in Lansing, Michigan, (On Kalamazoo Ave, open Wed 5-7) will gladly take any parts from a reviewer, no questions asked. Bikes get sold affordably to local working class families. Mechanical skills are always welcome to help build saleable bikes from the many frames & parts on hand.
I love seeing you out riding some of the other trails again. I know why you mostly stick to berm peak, but it’s nice to see some new scenery like in the old videos.
Love your way of thinking Seth. Who knows, some restored or repaired bike is ridden by some kid and he becomes a super star and remembers his first bike and the company who donated that to them, win win
It's the same in a bunch of industries. Getting back demo products usually costs more than just writting it off. The US military leaves mountains of equipment behind wherever we go, it cost more to ship it back, inventory, repair and re-issue than to just make new stuff.
Yea. True.. but the military probably also chooses to do this for other reasons.. it's an excuse to make more- spend more of that endless 'newly printed money.' Don't forget about arming your enemy, to justify wars that last decades.. I could really name names and point fingers but this ain't the place for that. Historically speaking, certain people who are in charge to make these calls, have also profited off their decisions to just make new stuff. It's a conflict of interest. Sorry.. this borders on being way to political... we're talking bikes here! I just wanted to point out that I think that is a different situation, with different motivations, and a totally different kind of funding. It's not the same..
Wow. Thanks for saying something. I worked in the outdoor retail industry and the same thing happens across the whole spectrum of goods, bikes to boats to bikinis. So much gear. And everyone knows you can’t use it all or keep it all, but I’ve never really heard it discussed, not even amongst ourselves. Appreciate you Seth. Let’s hope this reaches the right ears.
I think this concept should be expanded to the general biking community. Most of us have a parts bin, we a lot of stuff we’re unlike to ever use. Maybe make a video encouraging our community to sell or donate the stuff we have, it helps out newer bikers, those who have been priced out, or charities. We all can play a part
Well let me toss in my two cents worth here. I agree with you 100% with what you said. I'm not a bike repair shop, but actually do have a couple bikes and some parts that are in my possession. If they or the other non bike stuff adds up I'm out of room totally. I really liked your idea to be able to donate the items to different charities. Spot on!
seth totally agree with you, if these parts went to helping out people who need bikes in underserved communities, there will be much less bike thefts too! think about it, everyone benefits
You're idea of having reviewers donate the parts on behalf of the company is great and a win-win-win. Reviewers get it off their hands, someone who otherwise wouldn't be able to gets an awesome part for their bike, and the company could get great publicity for giving back to the community. I hope to see that sort of thing gets implemented in the future.
Thanks Seth, for the insider scoop on the industry and solutions to possibly improve the biking community as a whole, especially in underserved communities with children that would love to own their first bike but can't.
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic that in this day in age you can either get a $100 bike that doesn't work and is dangerous, or you can get a $1k-$12k bike. The consumer always gets the bad end of the deal.
A really great video! One thing I would also add is a lot of us don’t sell components because it can be viewed as a conflict of interest. A paid review with extra steps. I have tried to make it a habit to donate the majority of the stuff I don’t need to local bike co-ops, or even use them to help fix up bikes for the neighborhood. But some stuff, as you pointed out, isn’t mine to give away. There’s also the complication of gifting/donating a used/demo bike directly to a person. It becomes a question of liability if that bike fails and the person is injured. Is it the fault of the person riding the bike? The fault of the company? Or the fault of the reviewer? Those RUclipsrs stopped doing group rides and used bike giveaways because they’re quite honestly terrified of lawsuits. Many assume RUclipsrs make gobs of money from ad revenue, so they can spare a few hundred thousand. Hopefully this does help educate people outside of the industry, and gets people inside of the industry coming up with a more sustainable solution.
Good point about the perceived conflict of interest, though it seems like most reviewers have zero concerns about being in the pockets of the big industry players.
@@2bfrank657 Some people maybe, but I think most of it is the pressure of not wanting to become known as the RUclipsr that's too picky. It's really up the Marketing/Product Manager of who gets sent a review sample. They're not going to willingly send product to people that won't at least give it a somewhat favorable review, especially if it's a smaller channel. Unless you're a dentist, or already have a large channel with a steady stream of revenue, it can be cost prohibitive to self-fund reviews.
I watch a lot of perplexing physics, theory, and quantum science videos (Veritasium and Vsauce), and this is my go-to channel for that same world, but for bikes. Making my life better by 110% dude
Honestly I love what you saying. You got a point in that you are saying. Sorry about the way I am writing I am from Denmark. And I have been following you for the last couple of years you still rock
it's a shame because in my country (Colombia) you see extremely talented people having to bend over backwards to get basic parts. Even the pros here have to make deals with non-bike companies and such to get the basic support needed to work as a pro rider. Support for non-pros( reviewers, content creators, media, etc...) is pretty much non-existant here, and it's sad to see all those amazing parts lying in bins.
Well, as Seth mentioned. The parts are not the biggest problem, the shipping is a bigger one. And he's talking the states only, shipping abroad is even worse.
@@Torchedini my man, shipping a box of spare components across the globe is literally nothing compared to their market value not to mention the actual value for people who can't find or afford the parts. just as an example, 10-20 used derailleurs would do miracles for a club of young riders in places where they can't ride because they have no parts... but let's be honest, when it comes to $$$, most manufacturers would rather spill the milk in the fields than give it away to hungry people :(
That's also because Columbia is in a pretty sad state as a whole, due to multiple factors beyond the control of bike companies and individual races. Ultimately, if the people of Columbia don't do anything about it as a whole, then you really cannot expect much more.
@@duroxkilo Shipping a heavy box across borders can be pretty expensive. And dealing with someone you've never heard of, from another country where you have limited means to verify what they're actually going to do with the parts, can be problematic as well. The most viable thing, apart from selling or giving it to buddies, is to donate locally.
I totally agree with your proposition Seth. If they donate it to bike charity and these kids grow up and earn their own salary, who knows, maybe they'll be the ones who'll buy from these companies. I'm not saying donate to get something off of it, but what comes around does come around. And like you said, its a win for everybody--reviewers get their space back and not feel weird about having all these stuff, companies dont have to use too much resources tracing and getting them back, and bike charities would have more to work on. Thanks for this episode, this is a real eye opener. Hope all the bike brands out there do something.
Surprising to me a company wouldn’t want the bike/part back at HQ between reviews to check on the condition/rebuild before sending to a new reviewer. They risk sending on something that doesn’t work as-intended & get a crappy review.
Spending 40 years in various marketing leadership positions, it is all part of our budget to provide new product to key users, customers, reviewers, content creators. The product is not expected back. I for one as a CMO, ensured that it was communicated that they could use/keep, sell or donate anything provided to them for review. I'm sure that isn't typical. Thanks for the video Seth - say what shouldn't be an insider "secret".
the price of the parts or whole bike is like a drop in the ocean for the company. They have made the cost back a hundred times over by reviewers using it. and showing it off. That is why the companies dont care about this "issue". If i would have been you Seth or any other reviewer i would make the marketing manager sign a review contract with you where you have all the "im not gonna lie about the product" etc but also a line about that if the product in is your care for x month without response its legally your (obviously have a layer write it up in a good way).
Hey Seth! Been watching your channels for years and just bought my first bike, a hard tail XC, two weeks ago! Been rewatching a lot of your videos to pick up new skills and hacks that I can now apply. Thanks for inspiring me to pick up a new sport!
@@mroberts566 Lol, maybe when I eventually afford one but loving it right now! Went on my first trail this weekend. Fun and nerve wracking in spots where my lack of skills start to show. Definitely need more practice in my riding position.
@@BalbasaurFamVlog Sounds awesome man, that brings me back. Just one piece of advice: try not to overestimate your skill level too fast, just because you've watched some videos. I fall victim to that even today; I watch videos of Nate Hills following James Weingarten, and then I immediately go out and get myself in trouble and crash.
@@mroberts566 Thanks! It’s so tempting because they make it look so easy! Right now I’m just working on staying at a correct standing position and adjusting my balance when cornering. I’ll probably spend time at a parking lot a bit this week to get better at that and see where this weekend takes me.
Today I decided to go back through some old videos of Seth doing his thing and me having a great time when I realized, I have been watching him since 2017 and I still don't even have a bike. Maybe some day in the future I will get a house but I love every second that I watch. I have recently made a purchase of a SCX24 because I have watched Seth play with his so next step is to get a bike so I can tinker with it and hit the trails. Looking forward to the future of Berm Peak!
This same moral balance falls in automotive journalism, and just about any other segment with physical parts/product loans/exchange-of-services. Glad you bring it up, and it's well balanced on how it feels to live in this grey area at times.
Actually, figured I should comment because I worked for the Recyclery, NC for several years and we got a handful of parts that were part of this system. In fact, we were happy to take them! In my experience, no one's going to look too hard at a charity that's just about giving back used bikes to the community, either for free or at rock-bottom prices. I think the issue that comes in is that we're not usually set up to handle components that are that expensive.
Do the reviewers get paid to store and ship this stuff? I'm sure they pay shipping label costs and maybe expect you to keep the boxes they came in for repacking. But indefinitely housing all that crap? I'd add a line in any contract, if I have to store it for more than 1 month it's now my property.
What a fantastic way to not be a reviewer anymore... When they have a hundred other reviewers waiting why would they bother with the one guy who wants to mess with the contract?
No, and in many cases companies don’t truly care what happens to small products. Rarely if ever do they want a derailleur or grips back. But if they saw a big eBay store or Instagram post about a bunch of their products it could feel… weird.
Seth is the one of the chillest human beings on Earth. It's ALWAYS interesting when he speaks. Even if it's not about bikes. Berm Peaks is a great channel and Seth is a great personality.
Interesting. Car manufacturers for example, that are arguable on another level regarding sales, pay a lot of attention to this. Very rarely can you hear a car left with a reviewer for more than a few weeks. I guess the bike industry just works with much larger margins, and they don't have to care, while car companies save every penny they can on everything.
I mean you're also talking about a bike or bike parts vs an entire new car. They sell those cars at the end of the year at reduced price, and vehicles have large markups so they may even make a profit.
@@burddog0792 obviously I don't have numbers on this, but I know cars have small markups percentage-wise. Car dealers might have huge markups, but that's not money going to the manufacturers.
About time something like this was sorted out. A simple solution, and people in need benefit. Let’s hope this becomes standard policy amongst manufacturers. 👏🏻👍🏻
In the RC world, these parts are often given away to viewers, fans, subscribers at different events or occasions. You have some RC experience. Actually, that's how I ended up following your channel, and now on top of RC-ing, I also mountain bike with my kids. Thank you.
Man, we've seen this in the tech industry ever since reviewing tech was a thing. It's weird to sell something you got for free. But at the same time, you do put in the time to ride and write a review and post it. Generating advertising and clout for a product. And after all, time is money. We run into this in my industry too, which is Product Photography, brands are VERY particular with how their products are handled. Most people might think that one or two items being written off is nothing, and it is minor in the grand scheme of things. But not to the brands, that's revenue being lost out on and CFOs and their underlings don't like the idea of items being donated.
That's the nicest idea the companies could have about their reviewed products. And by the way, if you end up getting an authorization for donating a drivetrain, I'd be more than happy to accept one here in São Paulo, Brazil. Thanks for your videos, always enjoy them a lot!
I truly love the idea. I think more people sell the stuff than we realize though. If they don't sell it, the person who receives it sells it. If the original company doesnt want it back, its fair game. IMO.
I would check into property abandonment laws - I would think that after __ amount of time the abandoned bikes/parts would become property of the reviewer (especially after a year). I would also do like others before me have suggested, put an abandonment clause in the review contract :) .
I don’t think it’s really a matter of the law MOST of the time. Most of the time it’s just a matter of optics, and not wanting to be that guy distributing or selling parts they didn’t really pay for. If you do it enough, you start to be known for it, and it doesn’t make you look good if you’re making a living doing reviews or testing.
@@BermPeakExpress If as a part of the reviewer agreement the equipment was sent at (receiver's cost) to a place of the planet which is under-served, then they could develop a market in those places as well as do some good. Of course you would have to set-up a network of trusted redistribution hubs, and also find a way not to tank the local market. Maybe stipulate that the equipment can only be distributed as awards for local competitions or giveaways/auctions for some societal good.
@@BermPeakExpress Not to mention that if you become known as "that guy", then companies could blacklist you as a reviewer, and you will stop receiving product.
Ive product tested only a handful of preproduction productions in the offroad/overlanding community and I never really thought of this as a problem only because the volume of items Ive tested. Im definitely going to include something in the future that after so many days after release Im allowed to get rid the product if I choose to. Good video Seth
Not dirty and to my thinking it’s - in the grand scheme of things - a drop in the bucket. Seth is an ideal guy to dispose of such products in a philanthropic manner. Great video!
That's a pretty neat angle because I've kind of always wondered what happens to that stuff so that's awesome and your theory on how to resolve the issue seems very logical
Your videos are a wonder. Interesting, informative, thoughtful and shot through with a low-key sense of generous humour (humor outside Canada) and humanity. The video work and sound quality: always the best. Thanks.
Interesting topic, as usual. I think most of your followers have an idea how the market/reviewer bussines works. Thanks for clarify and yes, the solution is just exactly what you propose. Big hugs from Chile.
I'm actually glad you brought this up. Now I know, if I ever review a product I'll have a line in the contract stipulating if I keep possession for X period it becomes mine and I am then free to use it, sell it, or give it away as I see fit. Warehousing ain't free 🤣
That's the gift of the white elephant but on accident. I never thought getting amazing parts could be some sort of problem but here we are. Thanks for talking about it
Hey seth I think it could be really cool if you could do a video about the best ways to upgrade an entry level bike, I feel like it’s stopping me from riding and I’d love to start making some upgrades. There might be some tips in videos but a video specifically highlighting the best ways to upgrade a modern bike would be really nice, especially if you had like different options for budgets etc Sick video by the way!!
I know someone who is in the industry. Not on yt or in media but he’s connected & manufacturers respect his option. He sells EVERYTHING most of it never gets ridden. No one says anything to him and my new tyres were a bargain :)
Hi Seth I have been watching your videos for 2 years and I just wanted to say that I love your videos you have inspired me to start mountain biking as a 10 yr old
I'm currently transitioning from 28yrs of corporate work into exactly what your saying. My end goal is to bring riding & racing to people who don't have the means to compete. It's a good thing your advocating for this type of relationship with 501c companies with a passion for support. I hope this idea catches on & we can flood starting lines with talented riders regardless of finances. Huge props to you bro! Keep having these conversations about you can make a difference.
It’s interesting to hear the process for mountain bike review channels! As a filmmaking channel I get sent products all the time, and the company never expects it back. The product is basically the payment for the sponsored video, however I can make an honest review of it. I honestly had no idea that companies expect you guys to pass the product along.
I perfectly agree with this if there are for more than 2 months at your storage and you've done reviewing you could either sell it or donate it great video as always
Probably not mentioned but a bonus for all manufacturers involved is that donations to charity is a marketing boost. Any marketing department would take advantage of being able to not just write off a bike, but also to look good in front of consumers and not have to deal with a weird system of ownership between them and the reviewers.
This a is a great video and before this I used to think you got the keep the parts to do what ever you liked. I had no idea the bikes went to different reviewers like cars do. Great Video.
Dude you are the bomb, personally you are probably one of the best personalities I've ever watched, I remember when you first started, I think you were in Florida then, the were so basic but to the point, this is what makes you great, honesty is the best policy, I need your website so I can send you pics, and share with you, I'm an auto technician,but my true calling is bikes, I really hope you get this and get back with me, I know you're busy and occupied, but I think we are a lot alike, except I'm tall and you're Short 😆 thanks again for everything, yours truly mark Ogg.
Funny your brought this up, this applies to almost any company that send out products for review. Its not the end of the world but it can be a obnoxious trying to figure out what to do with things and still stay in the good graces or not be "that guy" with companies.
Here’s another thing I left out. Reviewers could make a few bullet points when accepting products for review (many, in fact, do this). “After we review your product, it can be sent back at your request by emailing a shipping label, or after 3 months we will donate it to an organization or individual”.
This is the right solution.
I’d be careful with that. Often such companies have their own contractual constraints for reviews. Your own criteria as reviewers might conflict with that and large companies definitely will not go into negotiations over this.
However, I do agree that something along those lines should be done.
And companies should actually include such clauses in their terms and conditions as a standard.
Donation also helps further promote said product / company = win
@@mudkayak6305 Say you’ll donate the parts on behalf of the company. When you do donate, make sure to note that the drivetrain is donated on behalf of SRAM, etc.
@@atticushexcel9567 I know exactly what you
mean by “it’s more trouble than it’s worth” but it is SO DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN.
I'm a professional reviewer and even I didn't realize it was this similar across different industries. I don't review bikes or anything remotely related to bikes and we go through basically the same process. It's actually kind of a relief to see other people dealing with the same 'issue'. Great video!
The reviewers could each have a simple line added in their "contract" stating that any product left after X days is now considered their property to do what they will with. Great video as always!!
This like a mechanic lean on cars 😊
With the deals I have/get, I’m able to resell items after 366 days of “owning it”
It gets messy if you have 13 bikes taking up an entire garage
I would have done this after the first time I had a manufacturer being lazy on returns. Space is precious.
Just said the same thing
@@clnfreakone8486 spot on
I remember Linus Tech Tips speaking about similar situations, he quite honest about selling/giving excess items to staff, they've also mentioned things over the years that are exactly the same as this situation where the company just hasn't tried to get it returned to the item has just sat there waiting. Sounds like a bit of a pain in the butt when it's something pricey!
Wasn't expecting a LTT reference here 😅
@@Boopop1024 he Prouably paid $29.99 for the ability to talk about ltt
I want to see Linus and Seth collab!!!
in the end i assume they just dont want it sent back, its like when amazon fucks up sends you 2 items and then says you can keep it or pay shipping to send it back... well OBVS going to keep it lol
There's also the question of price, when we're talking about larger companies like LTT. It's really expensive to keep a large inventory on hand. You need the buildings to store the stuff in (costs taxes and in some cases rent), and the employees who keep track of the stuff (and possibly also a paid inventory system).
This is me with tools. That’s why Seth has some of my old tools that I don’t need but didn’t feel comfortable selling!
When I worked in the bike industry over 12 years ago, I was in the same situation. I was a “reviewer” of sorts, but more for creating technical service protocols based on my mechanical experience working on bikes since 1996 (yep, I’m old). Ive had numerous parts, but the most notable things were a prototype complete downhill bike, several xc full-suspension frames, several complete xc hardtails, and more than a handful of forks. In all cases, as Seth mentioned, the manufacturer contact was MIA, but in about 80% of the cases, I was able to get a hold of someone else, and in all cases, they just said to keep the product another season or two before “disposing” of it at my discretion. In other words, it was mine but I was not allowed to give/sell until a new version had already been released.
wow, they don't want even a single piece without profit? lol
You should've sent them a storage invoice for $1,200.
Prototypes are examples of things that SHOULD NOT be forwarded to members of the public. This stuff needs to go back to the manufacturer or destroyed. Too much liability involved.
@@dudeonbike800Theres no legislation on prototype parts for bikes like there is for cars. It’s completely at your own discretion.
This is one reason I keep coming back to this channel, even though I rarely do trail riding. Seth has always been very open and transparent with everything he does, and this was a video I wasn't expecting. Very odd but understandable setup that the industry as a whole has fallen into.
Seth, I LOVE this video! I know it takes a TON of time, planning and editing to put together your videos and story time videos are awesome! It's a great balance between all your other great videos and now adding story time with your expertise makes it 10x better. Thanks for all you do!
Seth, as a vet and a volunteer at the HUBS CoOp in Huntsville AL, I really appreciate this and your recent donation to the Dirt Therapy Project. We all enjoy the fun of bike as a hobby, but bikes can provide more than the fun, it's transportation to jobs and stores, or as you highlighted before, therapy for our Armed Forces. If you ever want to rid your shed or parts bin of excess gear, I'd be happy to pick it up for a good cause
I'm a vet living in HSV... I'm going to look into the HUBS COOP
@@theincredibleegg1431 great, we're open today from 12-5
The one and only Chuck U!!!
This kind of content is why you're everybody's favorite guy on Biketube, seriously. You are a true man of the people and we're all super lucky to have you involved in the industry and making awesome content for us!
Its a good day when seth uploads
@@brendan9853 same
A very good one
agreed
I can 100% say the "donate it" solution would work! My company makes literally thousands of products for R&D testing and us employees are strongly encouraged to donate the tools to anyone who would use them or they will be thrown away. And, of course, we are NOT allowed to sell the products ourselves or through a proxy. Anyone caught doing this is liable to be fired.
They should donate these things to local junior racing and riding programs. As a junior rider who works in the industry I’ve been lucky enough to have some awesome people give me awesome parts because they’re not using them and trust me, it can change a kids life. Biking is an awesome sport, but it’s also an expensive sport and the more we can help kids get access to good gear, that does exist, the more kids we’ll have on bikes.
Yeah, a good rule would be to allow donations to whoever/whomever you see suitable. A mtb club, a junior team, a bike park, a rent bike, whatever that brings it back to the sport.
my high school team actually just got a big donation from someone who had accumulated review parts. They’ll definitely see use, we’re constantly breaking stuff
@@alism1080 how cool is your high school? To have a mountain biking team? That's awesome man
@@MTBrider_2009 The high schools here Virginia near the Blue Ridge Mountains have mtb teams. Sometimes they have a home course that is used by them exclusively (or with permission if you know somebody). I just saw a team practicing on local trails yesterday. Probably 25 kids. Since it is a mountain biking community they get parts and bikes donated all the time.
Have all my thumbsups
We actually do like these videos, Seth, you have become a trusted voice, a true ambassador of Mountain Biking. I think you have a wealth of experience and knowledge of bike culture to share with the larger group. Cheers!
Through the several states of bike shops I've worked in, there was always a local or state statute of "abandoned property".
This is generally a by-law in every state, and the shops I worked in had this posted as part of the repair rider.
The time limit was one year from the date of when the business agreement transpired.
After one year, the object could be considered abandoned and became the property of the business to dispose of as they saw fit.
This length of time is dictated by your local statutes, so do the research for where you live.
Seth, this could apply to those items you have, check your local statues.
Though as you said this is not true everywhere, in many states abandoned property never ceases to have an owner. What actually happens is that if the property has been demonstrably taken care of by another person for x amount of years than that person becomes the new owner, but there can never be no owner.
Right, but the whole review industry is resting on kinda weird conventions. Most reviewers probably worry about being "that guy who stole our bike that one time." Nobody's going to send That Guy any more equipment!
You're right, but you have to file something with your state to claim abandoned property, so there's still work involved (even if it exceeds state statute).
There is a difference between something being legal and something being cool with the people who send you sh!t to review. It's more about not offending the golden goose than about legal ramifications.
I live near the HQ for some of big bike companies. I told a friend of mine about how kids used to jump the fence and grab parts and build up bikes. Parts that were being junked.
He replied that he worked for one of those companies. The companies found out about people grabbing parts so they started running over parts, frames and whole bikes with a forklift.
When things were discontinued huge lots of stuff would get smashed.
I have zero doubt that they have no interest in getting this stuff back.
That's just a shitty thing to do. I don't care what their justification is, the bike companies can find a much better way of dealing with excess inventory. I hope that's not MY bike's company? I live near a few bike HQ's as well. You're not near Golden, CO by chance are you??
Nope. Not near golden.
One big issue was liability. If they are knowingly letting kids grab stuff they could eventually be sued when some kid gets hurt. Either using the equipment or jumping the fence. We can argue whether that sort of lawsuit makes sense. But I don’t think anyone would argue that such lawsuits would happen.
I’ll add: my friend was a kid working in the warehouse at the time. He was putting every dime he earned into building his dream bike. He had little sympathy for people stealing, even if it was inventory that was going to be scrapped. And even if it was kids building their own bikes.
This was pre eBay. Today it’s clear that that inventory would be grabbed and sold.
So while I liked the whole Robin Hood nature of the kids grabbing what they needed, I see why they went the route they did. It would be great if they had donated stuff. But writing off inventory and donating it is the same as far as taxes, as far as I see. And writing it off is easier.
@@lightlaserstarwars Yeah, I agree with that point.
I love the fact that you even made this video. I think if you have been around bikes/the industry for a while, we know it happens, but definitely "unspoken". Cudo's to you Seth for even talking about it!!
Actually super cool that Seth brought this up and just talks about it **AND** offers a real, reasonable solution. This nebulous gear situation exists in pretty much every industry, especially the outdoor industry. My experience is with sea kayaks, and honestly even before RUclips and such, this was an issue. Kayakers get signed as "team" or "pro" paddlers for a brand, they go to a x-number of events a year and bring extra boats with them for people to try, but after a couple years the new boat comes out, the "team paddler" leaves the team, etc. And now someone has a collection of 16-foot+ kayaks sitting in their yard, and yeah, as expensive as shipping a bike is, just imagine shipping a 17-foot carbon-kevlar sea kayak... Unless it's a very in-demand boat, the brand is not interested in the hassle of getting that thing back. Worst part with something like kayaks is that, in many states, you need to register them as personal watercraft, which means to pass them on there needs to be a bill of sale. How do you sell/donate something that you don't own and that might in fact be illegal to use without the paper trail saying you do/did?
Anyway, good on Seth for just putting it out there. It's helpful, and it means a lot of stuff will get into the hands of organizations and empty-pocket cyclists instead of being mothballed.
Great video Seth…. Love the transparency and the angle you took with this. I donate many bits and pieces as I upgrade my bikes. Two wins there: the giver feels good and the receiver feels good. My local MTB community is great for this, and so seeing somebody with the influence you have do a video like this is fantastic….
THANK YOU for saying the right thing, which is that the companies owe it to society to allow any parts over a year old to be donated. We've already heard from many folks on here that the companies will have already written off the parts. The Bike Co-Op in Lansing, Michigan, (On Kalamazoo Ave, open Wed 5-7) will gladly take any parts from a reviewer, no questions asked. Bikes get sold affordably to local working class families. Mechanical skills are always welcome to help build saleable bikes from the many frames & parts on hand.
I love seeing you out riding some of the other trails again. I know why you mostly stick to berm peak, but it’s nice to see some new scenery like in the old videos.
Love your way of thinking Seth. Who knows, some restored or repaired bike is ridden by some kid and he becomes a super star and remembers his first bike and the company who donated that to them, win win
It's the same in a bunch of industries. Getting back demo products usually costs more than just writting it off. The US military leaves mountains of equipment behind wherever we go, it cost more to ship it back, inventory, repair and re-issue than to just make new stuff.
Yea. True.. but the military probably also chooses to do this for other reasons.. it's an excuse to make more- spend more of that endless 'newly printed money.'
Don't forget about arming your enemy, to justify wars that last decades.. I could really name names and point fingers but this ain't the place for that. Historically speaking, certain people who are in charge to make these calls, have also profited off their decisions to just make new stuff. It's a conflict of interest.
Sorry.. this borders on being way to political... we're talking bikes here!
I just wanted to point out that I think that is a different situation, with different motivations, and a totally different kind of funding. It's not the same..
Wow. Thanks for saying something. I worked in the outdoor retail industry and the same thing happens across the whole spectrum of goods, bikes to boats to bikinis. So much gear. And everyone knows you can’t use it all or keep it all, but I’ve never really heard it discussed, not even amongst ourselves. Appreciate you Seth. Let’s hope this reaches the right ears.
I think this concept should be expanded to the general biking community. Most of us have a parts bin, we a lot of stuff we’re unlike to ever use. Maybe make a video encouraging our community to sell or donate the stuff we have, it helps out newer bikers, those who have been priced out, or charities. We all can play a part
Well let me toss in my two cents worth here. I agree with you 100% with what you said. I'm not a bike repair shop, but actually do have a couple bikes and some parts that are in my possession. If they or the other non bike stuff adds up I'm out of room totally. I really liked your idea to be able to donate the items to different charities. Spot on!
What’s in your parts bin is better than my whole bike😂
Same bruhh
And?
Cry harder
@@RealMTBAddict cry longer!
Wym bruh I'm barely 15 maybe one day I'll have a high end one, how tf am I gonna brag my parents for a high end mtb 💀
Spot on Seth!!! This goes across all industries. Donating to those that can use the product is the best way to go.
seth totally agree with you, if these parts went to helping out people who need bikes in underserved communities, there will be much less bike thefts too! think about it, everyone benefits
Not really, people steal bikes to sell them not to use them
Haha nope. Maybe live in a ghetto and see what they do with stolen bikes.
@@dominicsmith8698 yeah, I think quite a few would end up being sold right after a scalper gets them donated to them. Especially if its a banger part.
Ah yes the neverending quest to end homelessness. Give it a rest. California has 100k homeless people.
You're idea of having reviewers donate the parts on behalf of the company is great and a win-win-win. Reviewers get it off their hands, someone who otherwise wouldn't be able to gets an awesome part for their bike, and the company could get great publicity for giving back to the community. I hope to see that sort of thing gets implemented in the future.
This was very simply put and interesting, Thanks Seth!
Thanks Seth, for the insider scoop on the industry and solutions to possibly improve the biking community as a whole, especially in underserved communities with children that would love to own their first bike but can't.
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic that in this day in age you can either get a $100 bike that doesn't work and is dangerous, or you can get a $1k-$12k bike. The consumer always gets the bad end of the deal.
“I gotta be honest wich’ya” 😂
Great topic Seth! You’ve got a good heart… love that you focused on donating to charities for a solution.
Ive been watching every upload since the bike packing to key west days it’s insane how much your channel and brand has grown
A really great video! One thing I would also add is a lot of us don’t sell components because it can be viewed as a conflict of interest. A paid review with extra steps.
I have tried to make it a habit to donate the majority of the stuff I don’t need to local bike co-ops, or even use them to help fix up bikes for the neighborhood. But some stuff, as you pointed out, isn’t mine to give away.
There’s also the complication of gifting/donating a used/demo bike directly to a person. It becomes a question of liability if that bike fails and the person is injured. Is it the fault of the person riding the bike? The fault of the company? Or the fault of the reviewer? Those RUclipsrs stopped doing group rides and used bike giveaways because they’re quite honestly terrified of lawsuits. Many assume RUclipsrs make gobs of money from ad revenue, so they can spare a few hundred thousand.
Hopefully this does help educate people outside of the industry, and gets people inside of the industry coming up with a more sustainable solution.
Good point about the perceived conflict of interest, though it seems like most reviewers have zero concerns about being in the pockets of the big industry players.
@@2bfrank657 Some people maybe, but I think most of it is the pressure of not wanting to become known as the RUclipsr that's too picky. It's really up the Marketing/Product Manager of who gets sent a review sample. They're not going to willingly send product to people that won't at least give it a somewhat favorable review, especially if it's a smaller channel. Unless you're a dentist, or already have a large channel with a steady stream of revenue, it can be cost prohibitive to self-fund reviews.
It's so awesome that you adressed this issue I had no idea about, and then came up with a reasonable solution.
this is gonna be one of your best vidoes, love the style, and the way you tell the story, Looking forward to more story time videos 👍
I watch a lot of perplexing physics, theory, and quantum science videos (Veritasium and Vsauce), and this is my go-to channel for that same world, but for bikes. Making my life better by 110% dude
anyone ever ridden DH on a hard tail?
Yes its a bit scech
Yep, but once you get on a dually you ride faster than everyone else on the trail
Yes. Back in the day on a 26 coil suspension 2005 GT 😅
Still do it
Still do. Canny afford a 2g bike.
Honestly I love what you saying. You got a point in that you are saying.
Sorry about the way I am writing I am from Denmark.
And I have been following you for the last couple of years you still rock
it's a shame because in my country (Colombia) you see extremely talented people having to bend over backwards to get basic parts. Even the pros here have to make deals with non-bike companies and such to get the basic support needed to work as a pro rider. Support for non-pros( reviewers, content creators, media, etc...) is pretty much non-existant here, and it's sad to see all those amazing parts lying in bins.
Well, as Seth mentioned. The parts are not the biggest problem, the shipping is a bigger one. And he's talking the states only, shipping abroad is even worse.
@@Torchedini my man, shipping a box of spare components across the globe is literally nothing compared to their market value not to mention the actual value for people who can't find or afford the parts.
just as an example, 10-20 used derailleurs would do miracles for a club of young riders in places where they can't ride because they have no parts... but let's be honest, when it comes to $$$, most manufacturers would rather spill the milk in the fields than give it away to hungry people :(
That's also because Columbia is in a pretty sad state as a whole, due to multiple factors beyond the control of bike companies and individual races. Ultimately, if the people of Columbia don't do anything about it as a whole, then you really cannot expect much more.
@@duroxkilo Shipping a heavy box across borders can be pretty expensive. And dealing with someone you've never heard of, from another country where you have limited means to verify what they're actually going to do with the parts, can be problematic as well. The most viable thing, apart from selling or giving it to buddies, is to donate locally.
I totally agree with your proposition Seth. If they donate it to bike charity and these kids grow up and earn their own salary, who knows, maybe they'll be the ones who'll buy from these companies. I'm not saying donate to get something off of it, but what comes around does come around. And like you said, its a win for everybody--reviewers get their space back and not feel weird about having all these stuff, companies dont have to use too much resources tracing and getting them back, and bike charities would have more to work on. Thanks for this episode, this is a real eye opener. Hope all the bike brands out there do something.
Surprising to me a company wouldn’t want the bike/part back at HQ between reviews to check on the condition/rebuild before sending to a new reviewer. They risk sending on something that doesn’t work as-intended & get a crappy review.
Yes Seth. Very interesting! And your idea is the best idea. This need to happen! More riders makes a better world! Thank you for sharing brother!
I’ll take one for the team and accept all the unwanted products😅
😝
Accept*
Spending 40 years in various marketing leadership positions, it is all part of our budget to provide new product to key users, customers, reviewers, content creators. The product is not expected back. I for one as a CMO, ensured that it was communicated that they could use/keep, sell or donate anything provided to them for review. I'm sure that isn't typical. Thanks for the video Seth - say what shouldn't be an insider "secret".
the price of the parts or whole bike is like a drop in the ocean for the company. They have made the cost back a hundred times over by reviewers using it. and showing it off. That is why the companies dont care about this "issue". If i would have been you Seth or any other reviewer i would make the marketing manager sign a review contract with you where you have all the "im not gonna lie about the product" etc but also a line about that if the product in is your care for x month without response its legally your (obviously have a layer write it up in a good way).
Hey Seth! Been watching your channels for years and just bought my first bike, a hard tail XC, two weeks ago! Been rewatching a lot of your videos to pick up new skills and hacks that I can now apply. Thanks for inspiring me to pick up a new sport!
Cool! Now return it and get a full suspension. Lol just kidding, you’ll love it. Have fun out there!
@@mroberts566 Lol, maybe when I eventually afford one but loving it right now! Went on my first trail this weekend. Fun and nerve wracking in spots where my lack of skills start to show. Definitely need more practice in my riding position.
@@BalbasaurFamVlog Sounds awesome man, that brings me back. Just one piece of advice: try not to overestimate your skill level too fast, just because you've watched some videos. I fall victim to that even today; I watch videos of Nate Hills following James Weingarten, and then I immediately go out and get myself in trouble and crash.
@@mroberts566 Thanks! It’s so tempting because they make it look so easy! Right now I’m just working on staying at a correct standing position and adjusting my balance when cornering. I’ll probably spend time at a parking lot a bit this week to get better at that and see where this weekend takes me.
I am a tech person and made my own wireless dropper and the battery is inside the seat post and is easily cheap I got the idea from you video btw
Today I decided to go back through some old videos of Seth doing his thing and me having a great time when I realized, I have been watching him since 2017 and I still don't even have a bike. Maybe some day in the future I will get a house but I love every second that I watch. I have recently made a purchase of a SCX24 because I have watched Seth play with his so next step is to get a bike so I can tinker with it and hit the trails. Looking forward to the future of Berm Peak!
Sounds like Seth has a back log of DB product to shift.
This same moral balance falls in automotive journalism, and just about any other segment with physical parts/product loans/exchange-of-services. Glad you bring it up, and it's well balanced on how it feels to live in this grey area at times.
I bought my first entry level
mountain bike today and i would love to have that problem
Same but I’ve had mine for a while
No need for the word literally. Just say you bought a bike today.
@@RealMTBAddict relax brotha this ain't english class 😂
@@earthlungs3163 It should be.
@@RealMTBAddict sorry tbh i don't even know why i used it but Ive got an excuse im french
Actually, figured I should comment because I worked for the Recyclery, NC for several years and we got a handful of parts that were part of this system. In fact, we were happy to take them!
In my experience, no one's going to look too hard at a charity that's just about giving back used bikes to the community, either for free or at rock-bottom prices. I think the issue that comes in is that we're not usually set up to handle components that are that expensive.
Do the reviewers get paid to store and ship this stuff? I'm sure they pay shipping label costs and maybe expect you to keep the boxes they came in for repacking. But indefinitely housing all that crap? I'd add a line in any contract, if I have to store it for more than 1 month it's now my property.
What a fantastic way to not be a reviewer anymore... When they have a hundred other reviewers waiting why would they bother with the one guy who wants to mess with the contract?
No, and in many cases companies don’t truly care what happens to small products. Rarely if ever do they want a derailleur or grips back. But if they saw a big eBay store or Instagram post about a bunch of their products it could feel… weird.
Seth is the one of the chillest human beings on Earth. It's ALWAYS interesting when he speaks. Even if it's not about bikes. Berm Peaks is a great channel and Seth is a great personality.
Interesting. Car manufacturers for example, that are arguable on another level regarding sales, pay a lot of attention to this. Very rarely can you hear a car left with a reviewer for more than a few weeks. I guess the bike industry just works with much larger margins, and they don't have to care, while car companies save every penny they can on everything.
Yah, I mean the bike cost the manufacturer a few hundred to make, and they retail for $1500
I mean you're also talking about a bike or bike parts vs an entire new car. They sell those cars at the end of the year at reduced price, and vehicles have large markups so they may even make a profit.
@@burddog0792 obviously I don't have numbers on this, but I know cars have small markups percentage-wise. Car dealers might have huge markups, but that's not money going to the manufacturers.
Well that was refreshingly honest! I continue to enjoy your unique choice of music that accompanies your vids.
Hey Seth you should build a custom car bike rack
For the "why don't they just", you nailed it. The companies need to "just" authorize the possessors to rightfully donate it.
I’ll be accepting bike part donations now from you reviewers… thanks in advanced 😂😅
About time something like this was sorted out. A simple solution, and people in need benefit. Let’s hope this becomes standard policy amongst manufacturers. 👏🏻👍🏻
Sounds like I should start reviewing products!
In the RC world, these parts are often given away to viewers, fans, subscribers at different events or occasions. You have some RC experience. Actually, that's how I ended up following your channel, and now on top of RC-ing, I also mountain bike with my kids. Thank you.
Man, we've seen this in the tech industry ever since reviewing tech was a thing. It's weird to sell something you got for free. But at the same time, you do put in the time to ride and write a review and post it. Generating advertising and clout for a product. And after all, time is money. We run into this in my industry too, which is Product Photography, brands are VERY particular with how their products are handled. Most people might think that one or two items being written off is nothing, and it is minor in the grand scheme of things. But not to the brands, that's revenue being lost out on and CFOs and their underlings don't like the idea of items being donated.
That's the nicest idea the companies could have about their reviewed products. And by the way, if you end up getting an authorization for donating a drivetrain, I'd be more than happy to accept one here in São Paulo, Brazil. Thanks for your videos, always enjoy them a lot!
Seth I think you should come see how mtb is in the uk i know you have your child but yous should all come for a holiday
I truly love the idea. I think more people sell the stuff than we realize though. If they don't sell it, the person who receives it sells it. If the original company doesnt want it back, its fair game. IMO.
I would check into property abandonment laws - I would think that after __ amount of time the abandoned bikes/parts would become property of the reviewer (especially after a year). I would also do like others before me have suggested, put an abandonment clause in the review contract :) .
I don’t think it’s really a matter of the law MOST of the time. Most of the time it’s just a matter of optics, and not wanting to be that guy distributing or selling parts they didn’t really pay for. If you do it enough, you start to be known for it, and it doesn’t make you look good if you’re making a living doing reviews or testing.
@@BermPeakExpress If as a part of the reviewer agreement the equipment was sent at (receiver's cost) to a place of the planet which is under-served, then they could develop a market in those places as well as do some good. Of course you would have to set-up a network of trusted redistribution hubs, and also find a way not to tank the local market. Maybe stipulate that the equipment can only be distributed as awards for local competitions or giveaways/auctions for some societal good.
@@BermPeakExpress Not to mention that if you become known as "that guy", then companies could blacklist you as a reviewer, and you will stop receiving product.
Encouraging a market for bike parts has its own nefarious implications.
That was a really nicely articulated piece. And a really sensible solution. Hope the companies listen and actually make the change happen.
This happens in EVERY outdoor sports industry
Ive product tested only a handful of preproduction productions in the offroad/overlanding community and I never really thought of this as a problem only because the volume of items Ive tested. Im definitely going to include something in the future that after so many days after release Im allowed to get rid the product if I choose to. Good video Seth
Not dirty and to my thinking it’s - in the grand scheme of things - a drop in the bucket. Seth is an ideal guy to dispose of such products in a philanthropic manner. Great video!
The best video to how understanding testing new components and bikes works... thank you!
@Berm Peak Express
I need a 1 by 12 drivetrain for my mtb from your PARTS BIN Seth. 🙃
This really was an out of the box episode of yours man. Loved it.
That's a pretty neat angle because I've kind of always wondered what happens to that stuff so that's awesome and your theory on how to resolve the issue seems very logical
Your videos are a wonder. Interesting, informative, thoughtful and shot through with a low-key sense of generous humour (humor outside Canada) and humanity. The video work and sound quality: always the best. Thanks.
Interesting topic, as usual. I think most of your followers have an idea how the market/reviewer bussines works. Thanks for clarify and yes, the solution is just exactly what you propose. Big hugs from Chile.
Where in 🇨🇱?
I'm in the industry and will make sure to send this video to the appropriate people. Thanks, Seth!
The secret squirrel attitude in this video makes it one of my favorites by far. Solid entertainment. Thanks man 🤘🏻🤘🏻
Thank you for sharing!!! Why do I have a feeling you've got a deeper story behind this too.
As always You inspiring many people with your great ideas. Keep on with good work for the community.
Very interesting "backstage" view into the industry. Thanks for sharing and hopefully a solution springs from this discussion.
I'm actually glad you brought this up. Now I know, if I ever review a product I'll have a line in the contract stipulating if I keep possession for X period it becomes mine and I am then free to use it, sell it, or give it away as I see fit. Warehousing ain't free 🤣
That's the gift of the white elephant but on accident. I never thought getting amazing parts could be some sort of problem but here we are. Thanks for talking about it
Hey seth I think it could be really cool if you could do a video about the best ways to upgrade an entry level bike, I feel like it’s stopping me from riding and I’d love to start making some upgrades. There might be some tips in videos but a video specifically highlighting the best ways to upgrade a modern bike would be really nice, especially if you had like different options for budgets etc
Sick video by the way!!
I know someone who is in the industry. Not on yt or in media but he’s connected & manufacturers respect his option. He sells EVERYTHING most of it never gets ridden. No one says anything to him and my new tyres were a bargain :)
Hi Seth I have been watching your videos for 2 years and I just wanted to say that I love your videos you have inspired me to start mountain biking as a 10 yr old
This is quite interesting and is something I never even realized was a “thing”! Great video!
I'm currently transitioning from 28yrs of corporate work into exactly what your saying. My end goal is to bring riding & racing to people who don't have the means to compete. It's a good thing your advocating for this type of relationship with 501c companies with a passion for support. I hope this idea catches on & we can flood starting lines with talented riders regardless of finances. Huge props to you bro! Keep having these conversations about you can make a difference.
It’s interesting to hear the process for mountain bike review channels! As a filmmaking channel I get sent products all the time, and the company never expects it back. The product is basically the payment for the sponsored video, however I can make an honest review of it. I honestly had no idea that companies expect you guys to pass the product along.
We're so happy we can give the Boise Bike Project our old rims, seat posts, etc.
I perfectly agree with this if there are for more than 2 months at your storage and you've done reviewing you could either sell it or donate it great video as always
Probably not mentioned but a bonus for all manufacturers involved is that donations to charity is a marketing boost. Any marketing department would take advantage of being able to not just write off a bike, but also to look good in front of consumers and not have to deal with a weird system of ownership between them and the reviewers.
This a is a great video and before this I used to think you got the keep the parts to do what ever you liked. I had no idea the bikes went to different reviewers like cars do. Great Video.
Very interesting Seth! I didn't know any of this. I always assumed they reviewed the bike, sent it back, and the company sent it to another person.
Dude you are the bomb, personally you are probably one of the best personalities I've ever watched, I remember when you first started, I think you were in Florida then, the were so basic but to the point, this is what makes you great, honesty is the best policy, I need your website so I can send you pics, and share with you, I'm an auto technician,but my true calling is bikes, I really hope you get this and get back with me, I know you're busy and occupied, but I think we are a lot alike, except I'm tall and you're Short 😆 thanks again for everything, yours truly mark Ogg.
Funny your brought this up, this applies to almost any company that send out products for review. Its not the end of the world but it can be a obnoxious trying to figure out what to do with things and still stay in the good graces or not be "that guy" with companies.
Love the idea! Can’t wait to see some old 90’s Hardrock with a full Eagle conversion!
such genuine content. this satisfies my curiosity for some reason.