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RC Sproul 14 If God saves only the elect, why evangelize?
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- Опубликовано: 17 дек 2017
- In 2004, Real 2 Real Ministries / The Apologetics Group produced a 4-1/2 hour video documentary, Amazing Grace - The History and Theology of Calvinism. It was popular and sold over 30,000 copies. R.C. Sproul's interview was the high point of the series as he succinctly explained the Reformed doctrines of grace. However, some of the interview was cut from the final product. In this series, we present the raw, unvarnished interview with R.C. Sproul in its entirety.
My husband and I talk about this all the time. Sometimes, I feel so unqualified and not bold enough to preach. What joy to participate in sharing the gospel.
Kari Franci it’s a feeling of being free when you preach the gospel. That’s my only vice but when I do it, I feel unchained and unafraid. Don’t fear man or his disapproval
the less you know and the more unqualified you are, the easier it is for the Holy Spirit to work with you when you rely on him all he needs is some who is available then he can express himself.
but how do you know you're among the elect? you could both easily be in the other camp for all you know
Dan Barker was also a preacher (a fiery one at that)
@@blackfalkon4189 you know from your life you live
@@blackfalkon4189 and your desire to follow Him
In the end the REDEEMED can say; " I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see". As long as one responds to the Gospel gets saved ,it doesn't matter.
Rc Sproul was a demonic preacher who claimed to be a Christian. He was a satanic, smug, serial liar.
Calvinism is of the devil, and if you're accepting it as true, you need to repent.
Pray about this topic. Ask the Lord to help you distinguish truth from error.
One of the reasons is, God's justice is perfect, and that means everyone must hear his gospel, even those he knows will reject it.
that makes no sense & it's self contradictory
btw are you yourself of the elect?
and if it turns out you're not, and were predestined to the other camp all along, will you still accept G.d's sovereign will or will you rebel instead?
If there is one little bitty thing any where in all the universe that God doesn't know then he is not God! Therefore the god I worship knows All things! That means he knows where each person he creates is going to end up spending eternity, but he creates them anyway. Why does he do this? It's quite possibly beyond human understanding but the vast majority of God's nature is beyond the understanding of our small mortal minds. "For now we see in a mirror dimly"
I'm afraid some people can never get their minds around the concept that they cannot comprehend all of why God does what he does and never will. Those people should continue to worship in the way they see fit and leave those alone who are willing to accept they cannot comprehend all of God to worship in the way they worship.
@@blackfalkon4189 You know you're one of the "called out" if you believe the Gospel. It's not possible to believe it unless God makes you spiritually alive.
@@dannywilliamson3340 that's necessary but not sufficient
evidence is not proof
who's to say you're not just made to _think_ you believe when in fact you dont?
@@blackfalkon4189 Without the calling of the Father, one would not even "think" that the Gospel is true. The Gospel is foolishnesss to the unredeemed (1 Cor. 1:18). But those whom the Father calls are thus empowered to believe. "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." It's not possible to "think" that you believe while you actually do not believe.
Why!? Why do people believe this? It's so disheartening to me.
Because of pride
Why do people believe what?
@@philgm4052 To believe that, before the creation of the universe/world/mankind, God decided who He would "save" and who He wouldn't. That ministry and evangelism and resisting sin and living righteously and obeying God is all ultimately moot. That nothing we can ever do or say will affect our status as either "saved" or "unsaved"... it makes such a shipwreck of the entire Bible, it boggles the mind. I mean, Sproul seems like an intelligent guy. Why would he (and by extension, his adherents) believe such stuff? We evangelize because it's an unspeakable privilege? Wow...
@@DaveTheTurd You are bringing your own presuppositions into your Bible reading. you've already decided that God could not have predestined or elected his people. But the Scriptures tell us He is sovereign in salvation from beginning to end. John 6:65, Acts 13:48, Ephesians 1, Romans 9 and many more passages support the doctrines of "TULIP".
Watch Calvinist (documentary) and get a better understanding of reformed theology.
@@philgm4052 Thank you for assuming I haven't studied Calvinism enough. That's the usual go-to reply. "Study more, and the Holy Spirit will show you the truth." As though I couldn't possibly fully understand the "doctrines of grace" and disagree with them. There's a good chance I understand reformed theology far better than you do! Or at least, far better than you obviously think I do. TULIP is a filter, through which the Bible is viewed... it makes a handful of verses stand out in vivid color, while it blackens out the rest of the scripture. Reformed Theology is a belief system, and a muddy one at that. But thanks anyway. I guess I shall remain lost and/or ignorant.
We evangelize because the gospel really is available to every man woman and child as the bible really says, and Jesus told us to.
John 3:16 and many more.
God does not elect you to be saved before you are born.
Neither Esau or Jacob was elected to salvation, instead God elected Jacob to service through his seed the Christ would come as a blessing to all including Esau.
Those that's believe are in him in Christ, and they once being in Christ are the elect, chosen and who God predestined from the foundation of the world would be sanctified and glorified.
Unfortunately Sproul has it backwards as if the genuine offer of salvation through the gospel, is not available except for a God respected few of mankind, which limited the power of Jesus's ultimate blood salvation sacrifice.
This is a bold lie, although Sproul means well, what he was taught was a manmade systematic based on gnosticism that destroy Gid amazing grace and the live and gospel available to all mankind.
Think about under Calvinism the gospel is bad news for the majority of humans they are told to repent and believe, like they can, when His has determine and decreed that is not possible for them.
That is not the gospel, that is divine determinism better known as gnosticism Calvinism or tulip doctrine.
This is exactly what Paul and the early church fault against.
The notion that the only way Gid can gnostic or know everything is if he decrees and determines and makes it happen even the first fall Adams sin and yours and mine, and then holds us responsible in an ever lasting hell for things he made us do.
And then repeats certain person's called the elect and makes them believe with no ability to resist, this is not God, this is a puppet master monster.
Arrived at by reading it into scripture when it's not there.
The early church and the real reformers we're Jesus and the apostles, they did not torture and kill those that disagrees with them in theology like John Calvin the puritans, and reformers, they did not purely hate all Jews like Martin Luther.
Get back to the Bible and leave this false calvinistic gnostic doctrine alone.
God bless, the gospel is available to you and all your love ones, and even people you could care less about, anyone who says it is not is spreading false doctrine and limiting the blood atonement of the cross, which John MacArthur says is not necessary for salvation, along with you can take the mark of the beast and be saved later..
We have to rebuke this arrogant unloving ungracious God that the Calvinist theologians and Gnostics have created into the tulip systematic .
Pray for them and myself and I will pray for you.
Amen
You are right on!
Thank you, I needed this. Recently I started going to this home church that I was starting to feel comfortable with until someone asked about little babies being aborted, he asked if they go to heaven, the Teacher said there is nothing in the Bible that says they will,or even children or the disabled because God chooses you and he makes vessels for destruction. I cried through the answers, and could not get out of there fast enough. I have a daughter that is severely disabled, vent dependent among many challenges, she is like a little child that is 28 years old, I must say though she is the happiest person I know. Until recently I worked for years in Special Education, over the years we had students that passed away for various reasons, my last year I worked one of our precious high school kiddos died from the flu. I can't wrap my brain around the possibility of them being thrown into the lake of fire, I have struggled since hearing his teaching, cried out to God and searched the Bible for answers. The only thing I was able to find was when God took David's baby and he died in Samuel and he said he would go to him someday. I woke up yesterday morning with somewhat of peace for the first time in weeks, I wondered if the reason there's not scripture about the babies and the people who don't and can't understand excepting Christ is because that is not God's character, he is forgiving, merciful and loving and we should know that if we read the word? Maybe no reason to even question this. I would love your thoughts on this if you have time? I understand God knows from the beginning to the end who will not perish but I can't except that Christ wasn't also crucified for the babies and children and the people who never could understand. God bless.
R. C. Sproul was a great sophist but a lousy logician. Rom. 10:13-15 says:
13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How then can they call on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach?
15 And how can they preach unless they are sent?
How such an intelligent man could have promoted such a stupid theology is beyond me.
I was looking for a good definition and example of Cognitive Dissonance and this is as good as any.
This isn't dissonance, this is cacophony,
Yep
The very fact that these seminary students do not know basic scripture (that we’re to preach the gospel) demonstrates a major problem.
The second issue is Calvinist indoctrination. This is a problem, because it teaches a denial of Christ’s atonement, and preaches a false Christ who only died for a select elite group, picked by God before creation. This also means they believe salvation truly occurs outside of Christ.
Calvinism is an antichrist cult. Stay away from it!
Why do you say this? Do his actions not meet the standards of his belief?
Rc Sproul was a demonic preacher who claimed to be a Christian. He was a satanic, smug, serial liar.
Calvinism is of the devil, and if you're accepting it as true, you need to repent.
Pray about this topic. Ask the Lord to help you distinguish truth from error.
You dont know who is the elect. God knows. That is a nother reason to Evanghelise
Bro, only Jesus is elect.
@@BibleSamurai
hehehe *
hehehe *
let's try it again.
Whosoever call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.
fallenSlave Yup, strongly agree with that.
How do you know if you're one of the elect? I mean, if everything is up to God it would be hard to have any assurance of salvation. That's a problem for the TULIPs but not for the non-TULIPS.
I don’t choose Armenian or calvanist. I choose humility because I don’t understand these things.
I love Reformed theology because it exalts God and his sovereignty over all things. God bless R.C. for helping me to understand these blessed mysteries.
But where in scripture are we told to exalt Gods sovereignty over all His other attributes? Reformed theology diminishes His other attributes, IMO. He is the Alpha and Omega of ALL His attributes, right? He has to be.
@@Julie-rc7wl You're correct, I did misunderstand the comment. Still say that reformed theology diminishes Gods other attributes so as to exalt sovereignty, but the OP wasn't making that point. Thank you for the correction, Julie.
so then, how do you know if you yourself are among the 'elect'? you could be in the other camp for all you know
@@blackfalkon4189 I would recommend looking up the doctrine of assurance. It's a topic that is so expansive that a simple response wouldn't do it justice. Ligonier has very good teachings on it. Charles Spurgeon also preached on it many times. I have to go back to these teachings often to be reminded that I'm forgiven. I think it's what Paul meant by saying "work out your salvation with fear and trembling".
@@boholilo7740 all the same what makes you think you are among the elect? what if you find out you were predestined from the start to be in the other camp, will you still "exalt God" & accept your fate, or will you rebel instead?
He brings people through his gospel but if we could break it down we can find in Jeremiah he brings us to him with his lovingkindess
Me 04:47
I believe as you said that we can't decide who will and can be saved because it's it's entirely up to individuals. I strongly believe God wants everyone if possible to be saved. Some will not , not because they have been predestined but because they won't on their own for any reason but entirely there own. God is not unjust. He sis not create anyone and predestined him to go to hell. He wants everyone to be saved and that is why we evangelise. We can simply just sit at home and hope that the predestined will surely be saved no matter what and we don't even need the church for edification of the brethren since the predestined heaven-bound ones will still make it no matter what. I strongly advice we reconsider this doctrine of election. Thanks sir.
This is in response to the doctrine that states that some people are predestined for salvation. If I think my son is, then why not others. RC just brought up his grand son who I assume is predestined but not another person's grandson.
Thanks
You are absolutely correct sir.
💯
My friend, Sproul did not say that one’s Salvation depends on us. Just the opposite. He never says we should sit home and hope people get Saved. Doesn’t sound like you bothered to listen to what He Said.
Sometimes our lives can end much sooner than we think, therefore it is vital to put our trust in Jesus Christ the only Son of the Living God, since believing in him is the most important thing we can ever do. Jesus himself expressed his Father wishes .... "For the will of my Father is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day". The message is clear, believe in Jesus and be saved. God bless everybody in their search for the truth.
Just wonder how God will be just in his judgement of those he didn't choose, because ultimately it wasn't their fault their names were not in the Book of Life
It is their fault that they sin. We sin because ALL human beings want to sin. If God did not predestinate any person to salvation, every human being ever born would be unsaved, be judged guilty for their sins, and condemned to Hell.
@@igregmart
Yet does not calvinism teaches that God is sovereign and He predestinate and plan all things. So the very reason people sin is because God predestinate them to sin, so people has no option but to sin, it their God given destiny.
@Pond3r Thiz
I believe arminianism is a failed attempt to solve the horrors of calvinism.
What is the main problem with calvinism? Why so many are so strongly against it? Because it teaches how God, in the beginning of times, before the world was, being Sovereign and all knowing, predestined most of humanity to do nothing else but burn for ever and ever after a little spark of an imperfect existence in this world. This is so horrifying, so unacceptable that many christians simply cannot follow it.
Yet when you look at the arminianism, they actually has the same problem, they also believe that God is all knowing who knows the end from the beginning, they believe that God is fully self sufficient, that he did not need us, creation, that He could exist by himself and be perfectly fine. He knew that if he is going to create the world, it would erupt an unimaginable horror pain and suffering to billions of souls and it would become so bad that God himself could no longer fix it out of existence - EVER AGAIN. So God has 2 options, to keep everything in a perfect order, peace and joy forever without creating anything or to take that step and to defile the universe with unimaginable pain horror and suffering which can no longer be fixed even by God himself EVER. Then he goes and decides to take that step and defiles the universe with everlasting horror pain and suffering.
So both, the God of calvinism and the God of arminianism are at the same horrifying position, both are responsible for everlasting pain horror and suffering.
So obviously this way of thinking is fallacious, not calvinists nor arminianists get it right. Something else is going on what most christians cannot fathom right now.
@@igregmartby that logic there are 0 elect
how do you know if you're among the elect? you could easily be in the other camp for all you know
@@nikokapanen82 There's only one problem with this premise. It presumes that knowledge is causal. This is a modal fallacy. God can foreknow, but permitting an event is not causality. You can reasonably foresee touching a hot stove will cause a burn, but that does not mean you will cause a burn by touching a hot stove.
The question of why a Calvinist would evangelize is kinda dumb. It's not like Calvinist believe the elect will have faith in the Gospel without ever hearing it. Faith comes through hearing, so the elect will hear, whether it be through evangilisim or independently reading scripture.
As Paul said, "How will they know if no one tells them?" The age of men being struck blind and saved on Damascan roads is not one we live in, so blessed are the feet of those that carry the good news!
Hard to see how a Calvinist can possibly evangelize another individual. They cannot in all honesty tell them that God loves them because they do not know that.(Don't just mean rain & harvests etc.)
They cannot tell them that Christ died for them because they do not know that. (They might not be one of the "elect" selected ones.)
Precisely what "good news" can a Calvinist give to that individual?
Cyrano Di Corvino I think it's rather obvious that the emphasis ought to be on the gospel itself. Then if the person is moved by the grace of God they will respond. Don't Arminians believe the same thing? the only difference is that a Calvinist would say that Grace is 100% effective and needs no human assent or effort prior to conversion. God has ordained that people believe through the preaching of the Gospel, but it is God who saves.
Indeed.According to Calvinism, only those that have been selected will be "moved "to believe. The rest have been created/"raised up"/prepared/destined for judgement, condemnation then eternal torture. They will never be allowed to be moved or believe.
A Calvinist speaking to an individual cannot know which of these 2 types of people he is speaking to. So if the unbelieving individual asks "but does God love me and want me to repent and believe the gospel and be saved?" , he/she cannot in all honesty say yes.
I do agree with you though that the Gospel "is the power of God unto salvation".
He can absolutely say that. What he can't say is whether the individual will with certainty be saved. But neither can the Arminian. There is a difference between what God WANTS and what He has decreed by His sovereign will. God WANTS no one to sin, but by His decree the way of salvation is given because sin came into the world.
we are getting closer. Can he absolutely say to that individual that God WANTS him/her to believe and be saved? A true Calvinist cannot say so.
Yes, a Calvinist can say that God wants all people to believe and be saved. But God obviously wants something more than that, otherwise everyone would be saved. The Arminian must admit to the same thing.
RC you almost had it right all those years ago. We evangelize because Jesus commanded it. Jesus commanded it for one of two reasons. Either he wasn't a calvinist, or he didn't understand God's will. Obviously I'm being facetious I'm quite certain the second one is not the correct answer. Jesus said to go into all the world and Make Disciples of all Nations. He often spoke in terms of absolute. He did not limit the power, love, and mercy available from his Heavenly Father.
If Jesus did not limit "the power, love, and mercy" of the Father, then why don't we all have it? If Jesus gave freely the power, love, and mercy you say, then all would have been loved, all would have obtained mercy, and all would have this power.
@@rrand5630 Jesus gave only one answer to the question of lack of power. Unbelief
Do you not believe in Calvinism?
@@BaconPizza Calvin was a frenchy satanist
btw how do you know you're among the elect?
@@blackfalkon4189 where’s the evidence for that? You know you’re in Gods elect by the way your life is lived.
Evangelizing others it is also for the growth of the one who does it. It's not just a privilege, it is a holy duty.
There is joy in haven when a siner repent and come to the Lord.
Well, in order to have that joy you must be co-worker with the angels in helping others to be saved.
Loving God, talking about Him and helping others...these are the laws of haven.
We must live the haven here on earth.
I agree.
Doesn't the Calvinists believe that the reason they evangelize is because God makes them do it? Sincere question.
He calls us too, just like he calls His elect, so we are compelled too. It's like how under sin in Calvinism, we have free will, but it's dominated by sin. It's a totally fair question, and if people were nasty to you I empathize.
Rom 8:29..."For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
Who did God foreknow? He surely would of foreknown every individual that was birthed on the planet.
How would it be possible for all to enter into this predestined purpose?
Rom 10:13..."For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
The Jewish people was predestined that gods chosen people. They take us An elect and election An make it something that it doesn't mean. Like when it says god chose Jacob from the womb of that was predestined why did god chose
Binny Tinn In keeping with the Jewish practice of his day, I think Paul was speaking of a corporate election in this passage. When Jews thought of election or predestination, they thought primarily of the nation of Israel. Israel as a nation was elected (not for salvation, but for service). But this didn’t mean that every individual born into Israel was part of God’s chosen people. Only those who kept covenant with God were considered “true Israelites.”
Notice that Paul doesn’t say that God chose us to be in Christ. He rather says God chose us in Christ to be holy and blameless. What God chose from the foundation of the world was that whoever is in Christ will be holy and blameless.
The Father drawls them to the Son which mean the triune God of the Bible is in control of everything and it’s At His will to do what ever he wants with his creation. Paul said “Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?”
Romans 9:21 NKJV I love the book of Romans
Chris Jimenez Hath not the potter power over the clay
By the power the potter has over the clay, to shape it in what form he pleases, and out of it to make what vessels he pleases, and for what purposes he thinks fit, which will be most to his own advantage, the apostle expresses the sovereign and unlimited powder which God has over his creatures; the passages referred to, are ( Isaiah 64:8 ) ( Jeremiah 18:1-6 ) , in which God is represented as the potter, and men as clay in his hands; now if the potter has such power over the clay which he did not make, only has made a purchase of, or has it in his possession, much more has God a power, who has created the clay, to appoint out of it persons to different uses and purposes, for his own glory, as he sees fit; even
of the same lump, to make one vessel to honour, and another to
dishonour.
The apostle seems to design hereby, to point out to us the object of predestination to be man, as yet not made, but as lying in the mere mass of creatureship, signified by the unformed clay, before put into any shape; and is an allusion to the first creation of man, out of the clay, or dust of the earth, ( Genesis 2:7 ) ; for such a consideration of man best agrees with the clay, lump, or mass, not yet formed, than as already made, and much less as fallen and corrupted: for if men, in predestination, were considered in the corrupt mass, or as fallen creatures, they could not be so well said to be made out of it, both to honour and dishonour; but rather since they were all dishonourable, that some were left in that dishonour, and others removed from it unto honour: besides, if this is not the case, God must create man without an end, which is contrary to the principle of reason and wisdom; the end is the cause, for which a thing is what it is; and it is a known rule, that what is first in intention, is last in execution, and "vice versa": the end is first fixed, and then the means; for God to create man, and then to fix the end of his creation, is to do what no wise potter would do, first make his pots, and then think of the end of making them, and the use they are to be put unto. To make one vessel to honour, and another to dishonour, is for God to appoint creatures, which are to be made out of the same mass and lump, for his own glory; which end, his own glory, he determines to bring about by different means, as these following: with respect to the vessels of honour, whom he appoints for his glory, he determines to create them; to suffer them to fall into sin, whereby they become polluted and guilty; to raise and recover them, by the obedience, sufferings, and death of his Son; to regenerate, renew, and sanctify them, by his Spirit and grace, and to bring them to eternal happiness; and hereby compass the aforesaid end, his own glory, the glorifying of his grace and mercy, in a way consistent with justice and holiness: with respect to the vessels of dishonour, whom he also appoints for the glorifying of himself, he determines to create them out of the same lump; to suffer them to fall into sin; to leave them in their sins, in the pollution and guilt of them, and to condemn them for them; and hereby gain his ultimate end, his own glory, glorifying the perfections of his power, justice, and holiness, without the least blemish to his goodness and mercy: now if a potter has power, for his own advantage and secular interest, to make out of the same clay what vessels he pleases; much more has God a power, out of the same mass and lump of creatureship, to appoint creatures he determines to make to his own glory; which he brings about by different methods, consistent with the perfections of his nature.
I like your copy paste lol
Two reasons I can think of. First, we were commanded. Second, the gospel is first and foremost about Jesus. And like a lover can't get enough talking about their beloved, it should be our attitude towards evangelism. While I pray and hope that people get saved when they hear me preaching the gospel, I preach it because it speaks of him. When preaching the gospel, I'm offering praises to God by talking about him. That's far more important than any person.
So when you hope and pray that someone gets saved….does this mean that if they do choose to believe the gospel, that its only because they were saved all along?
Calvinism wants to assert that God arbitrarily predestines some few to Heaven and the majority to hell. BUT the Bible clearly teaches God's predestination is based on His FOREKNOWLEDGE.
An Armininian asked me the same question...I simply read from scripture...
Romans 10:17
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ.
I like how ends with saying, in Calvinism, it doesn't change anything whether we evangelize or not. Just sit back and have a steak if that's what brings you the most joy.
Scripture is clear, I choose you, you didn’t choose me. No man can come to me unless the Father draws him
RC needs to realize how many times God says in His word, WHOSOEVER WILL
Unless they hear the Word - how will they know? Come let us reason together. Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word of God.
Exactly. John 1:12 Romans 10:9,10 Romans 10:13 Revelation 22:17 WHOSOEVER WILL
If Christ saves WHOSOEVER WILL, which he does, as you seem to be saying, then how could Sproul, and others, have taught, and teach, LIMITED ATONEMENT?
It is only limited by those who choose to reject that atonement. Now, did I say everyone will be in Heaven, no I did not. Christ died for the sins of the entire World. Some accept and receive that atonement, John 1:12, but many reject it. The choice is each human beings to make. Now, does God in His sovereignty, know who will believe, absolutely. God does NOT condemn people to hell without ANY opportunity to turn to Him. John 3:16,17 Very simple.
@@lauriecollins7312 Jesus isn’t coming back until the whole world has heard.
In regard to what RC Sproul says at the 2:50 mark, how are we participating in the joy of those who come to Christ by sharing with them when it has no effect whatsoever. They are saved ONLY because God decreed it.
The question contains a false premise, ...elect... People must hear the Gospel, believe it and receive it to be saved (at the point they believe and receive God promises to save then Rom 10:9-11 for example). This is most commonly accomplished through evangelist (which should be all Christians). That is probably one reason why Jesus commanded it, so more people would have more opportunities to be saved.
One reason why 17 others in RC's class did not have an answer to the question was the question was based on a false premise and was therefore unable to be adequately answered.
If anyone is having trouble with the Biblical meaning of election (which has little if anything to do with salvation) see Kevin Thompson's Biblical training on the subject. It is very insightful. Search Kevin on RUclips.
RC SPROUL has said some brilliant things, but Jesus commanded us all to preach to every creature because every creature CAN BE SAVED. Mark 16:15. Calvinism makes NO SENSE to anybody but a Calvinist. 1 For 15:1-4 is how we are saved.
Han Räddas what is that last reference?
@@hanraddas9308 then God isn’t sovereign? Cause he doesn’t determine who gets saved and who doesn’t? Huh
@@BaconPizza so then, what if it turns out God chose you from the start to be among the *non-elect?* will you still obey him or will you rebel?
@@blackfalkon4189 if I’m not among Gods elect then I’m going to hell. I’m not saved. Seems unfair but who are we to question God. Does the potter not have a right to make out of the clay what he wants?
How about we just don't know what God's plans are because He explicitly tells us that His ways are higher than ours and instead of arguing over interpretations we just do the one thing we can all agree on which is, preach the gospel to the lost and pray that God work about salvation in all unsaved hearts, and let God sort it all out....?
Edit: Spelling
We don’t really have free will but free choices of sin(s). Ultimate justice is all of us to be damned. Yet, the Lord has mercy on us by saving some. Yes, it’s a difficult thing to grasp but the only way we can fully comprehend is when we are with Jesus in heaven. …I don’t like it how it is but doesn’t mean it isn’t true, either.
This is one of the most beautiful and touching Sproul moments and insights praise Jesus and God and thank you for allowing us to be part of this beautiful moment with individual humans
He mentioned “the privelage of bringing the gospel.” Gospel=good news. So, how is the gospel good news to the “non-elect?”
“Your saved, your saved, elect, elect.... oh, wait.... YOU! no no no dude. You were created for hell. Sorry. Bad news for you ‘non-elected folks’”
Yet at Jesus birth it was declared that it was good news for all people not just the elect.Luke 2:10 (KJV)
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
So why will it be good for all people? The next verse tells us
Luke 2:11 (KJV)
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
That is why I don't believe in Calvinism but the gospel.
the thing is we don’t know who’s elect and who’s not so we’re called to preach the gospel to everyone we can. So, when you say “you’re saved, you’re saved, you’re not.” we actually can’t say that, for only God knows.
That’s exactly what Scripture teaches, we don’t even deserve a Savior, read Romans 9.
@@thesea6417so how do you know you're among the elect?
@@goseeaboutagirl that's contradictory but w/e (this can be used to justify non-evangelizing)
btw what if *you* are among the non-elect?
So basically we are to deliver the gospel to those who god decided to save but not to the ones who are doomed from the womb to live a life of sin so God can torment them for living the life of sin for the purpose of receiving glory to show how much he hates sin. Spurgeon said he preached to everyone since he could not see the word elect on the backs of those who were lucky enough to have won gods cosmic lottery.
So does the election happen before my life begins or afterwards and I am being judged by God? Because if God just randomly chooses (or "elects") out of His own will, then what is the purpose of the Gospel? What it sounds like, is if I have faith in Christ and have repented from sin, it wouldn't matter if God did not elect me into His kingdom. Because I watched another video of Sproul speaking of 4 different types of people: Those who are elected and know they are, those who are elected and do not know, those who are not elected and think they are saved, and those who are not elected and not saved. How can that make any sense when the Gospel says that those who have faith in Christ and repented are saved? If you truly do just that, you are saved.
And there is another type of people, those who are calvinists, believe they are elected but are not. How can you know if you are elected? Sounds like Islam. You can try your best to keep the commandments but are never guaranteed a place in paradise.
We evangelize because even those who God elects must come to saving faith in Jesus Christ. They won't enter the Kingdom without it. They would be like the man who came into the wedding feast without a wedding garment. But even the elect must come in wearing the robes of Christ's righteousness (even if those robes are a sheer gift of God's grace). We proclaim the Gospel so that the Holy Spirit may work through the Word of Christ to create, confirm and strengthen faith, even in the elect. I would say that if you have faith in Christ and have repented of your sin, then you can consider yourself among those who God has elected.
@@johntapscott4528 nope your wrong. God elected them to be more receptive to the gospel. Other than that they would reject it because our heart depise things of god
@@johnsmith23istthen you are saying there are only 2 types of people:
1. Those who are receptive of the gospel and are elect.
2. Those who reject the gospel and are not elect.
Well…the gospel must be preached to all creatures. The results does not come because of us, but because of God’s grace or/and the human response. I know that when I came to Christ many years ago, the Holy Spirit was working in me way before I received Christ. When I went to the church that glorious day, I was already prepared, without having any idea of it. Let’s share the gospel, and let us believe that God will establish his will, for sure.
@marloscael1011 No-one will come to Christ without first the conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit
Justification is a work of God the Father and the Holy Spirit in us and without us. Justification and faith do not have a sequence in time but in order Faith- Justification but are simultaneously in time. Sanctification is a work of The Holy Spirit in us but not without us. Justification and SANCTIFICATION cannot be separated. There is no sanctification without justification or justification without sanctification, this even when sanctification is just a begin of regeneration through all our life. Faith is by Grace and the free gift of God. The Bible teaches us the Justification of the UNGODLY. [Made/ declared Righteous. Based only on the righteousness of Christ] Not a believer is justified. The UNGODLY chooses SIN by nature. Sanctification is called Fruits of the Holy-Spirit
James 2: 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works [read FRUITS] is dead? Faith First then Fruits of Faith.
There is a general working of the Holy Spirit in the hearing of the Word that convicts and precedes faith but not always leads to salvation. See the parable of the sower. The plow is needed to make the soil good to receive the seed. Conviction is a work of the Holy Spirit and without no-one will come to Christ. Never lost is never saved. Jesus came to save the lost.
THIS IS HOW CALVIN PREACHED THE GOSPEL (Calvin's Wisdom p119-120)
He calls all men to himself, without a single exception, and gives Christ to all, that we may be illumined by him. When we pray, we ought, according to the rule of charity, to include all. God invites all indiscriminately to salvation through the Gospel, BUT THE INGRATITUDE OF THE WORLD IS THE REASON why this grace, which is equally offered to all, is enjoyed by few.
Other than the result of men’s refusal. Calvin as you can see and put the responsibility by men.
This is a beautiful perspective I had not previously considered.
It's false.
just because it made you feel good, does not make it true ....
@@grassCrow That's not what I said and you sound bitter like you came here to lash out at people.
"If it's true, that God from all eternity saves His Elect, and nothing's going to change that, then why should we evangelize?"
R.C accepted the nonsensical presupposition "IF ITS TRUE... " and answers with an answer that has NOTHING to do with the logical ramificationss of the presuppositon.
Correct answer:
It's NOT true, otherwise you have God commanding His Elect, to command the majority God has purposely hated before they were born, who have NO GOSPEL, NO SAVIOR, NO ATONEMENT for sin, and names have never, and will never be written in the Book of life, to "Repent & believe the gospel" mever intended for them to begin with.
In other words, God commands salvation from a group of sinners He has purposely hated before they were born & predestined to be burned forever without any means of salvation.
@Johan Strydom -- While simultaneously commanding those HE KNOWS don't have a gospel or Savior to repent to, "To repent & Believe the gospel".
Your accepted presuppositions make God out to be a Liar.
It's a shame you've accepted this lie.
@@primeobjective5469
Not really. "Repent and believe" IS for the elect - it's not for everyone. Obviously if someone's eternal destiny is to be without Christ then "repent and believe" will never apply to them. The major problem with deciding that man initiates salvation by choosing is that you put the power in man's court and you make Christ sacrifice a 'potential' one, which means it isnt a complete one.
The greatest example of this is everyone who is a believer in the OT, they never could CHOOSE Christ yet they were saved . How?
Because God chose them from the beginning of time.
So those with whom i share the gospel, am i wasting my time since they may not be wanted by god. How do i minimize wasted time. Should i just spread the gospel quickly, not spend too time investing in a single person with the aim of hitting as many as possible. Is there a way to know or do i just assume that there is going to be wasted time since there is no way of knowing who may have been LUCKY enough to have won Gods cosmic lottery.
Sent from my iPhone
RC Sproul : WAS A five point Calvinist who has read John 3:16 . Qtn He believes in LIMEMETID ATONEMENT . how does he explain the word WHOSESOWEVER IN THE ABOVE VERSE ?
Shush! Calvinists don’t like inconvenient truths. They will whip out the “mystery of God” answer on you.
Thats easy...."whosoever" isn't in the greek for John 3:16
The correct greek is "everyone believing in him" ( past tense)
Quit implying its an invitation, its a past tense statement....look it up if you don't believe me
"Everyone believing in him shall not perish but might have life eternal"
Big difference!
Yes, we are to continue to witness, to "Tell Forth"... But conviction is of the Holy Spirit. God the Father will draw His sheep to Him.
exactly. But isn't it amazing that this sovereign God has chosen us to be the ones to spread his news?
God only saves Israel ? God chooses who "He " wants to be saved ? oh im sorry i didn't read that verses can someone please share it with me .
Wrong... Wrong.. WRONG!!!!!! Almighty GOD is sincere and doesn't build straw men and fake narratives to display HIS love or to receive glory ... GODS SAVING GRACE has appeared to all men...GOD wouldnt send us to preach to all if all wasn't able to choose.. LORD JESUS said if I am lifted up I WILL DRAW ALL MEM TO MYSELF.. LORD JESUS is and was and always will be THE FIRST CHOSEN ELECT SERVANT OF THE FATHER and we become the elect once we believe in HIM and profess with our mouth believing on HIM FOR SALVATION because HE is the SON OF GOD who Justifies sanctifies and eventually glorifies us completing the full plan of salvation...
The BIBLE says that HEAVEN rejoices to see that 1 sinner has repented and turned to GOD. Yet calvanism says God Chooses to withhold his Grace too many and children, and Condemms them to hell before they are Born an Jesus rejoices In This. Complete non-sense.
Read Romans 8 and 9 , John 10, Ephesians 1
@@samuelaguilar9668 reading it means Nothing, but exegeting it and understanding what Paul was saying is the Problem that most calvanists have. Paul was NOT taking about an Electioon of individuals for Salvation, but HE was talking about the Nation of Israel who was elected or chosen to bring the Gospel to jews and gentiles. esau and jacob were symbols of jew and gentile . if you read it Scripture says that the Older jacob will serve younger esau but that never happened,because again it wasnt talking about indivdual persons but nations.in fact almost all Biblical scholars are in agreement. if you read Romans 11 carefully. PAUL states that those who BELIEVE in Christ are the Heirs of Promise.There is no election of salvation of any person in SCripture!!
Bob Free but didn’t God also technically chose Jacob individually and Esau individually? Either way the doesn’t account for the many other texts that point to Gods will over human exertion
So in other words…there are “elect” out there who don’t know they are “elect” and the way they find out they are “elect” is by the “elect” evangelizing to them? What this also tells me is that there are “elect” out there who could never know they are “elect” and still inherit the kingdom of God simply because they were “elect”. Anything else would require them to do something out of their will which i know Calvinist don’t believe.
Calvinist should know this there will be absolutely no boasting in heaven none. no one can say but Lord i was a Calvinist or arminian or methodist or Pentecostal or Presbyterian or catholic baptist or coc or sda episcopal. none of that will matter the only thing that will matter is did you believe the gospel according to the scriptures the gospel is the power of God unto salvation and many profess to believe in the death burial and resurrection and are not born again because they don't believe according to the scriptures they believe in vain so many have been indoctrinated by thier denominations not realizing they are lost so sad.Jesus said do not be deceived many will come in my name and deceive many there are so many who defend thier denominations and not the one faith let God be true and every man a liar. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith no one else.the real sin is not believing God.
Calvinists believe that only the Elect will receive Christ, whereas Scripture teaches that God elects those who receive Christ (But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name - John 1:12)
yeah, but they will respond that only the Elect are capable of believing ....
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
So when John says you Can Know that you are Saved, he really means only if you are Elect!! and No one Can Know he is saved because he dont Know if he really is Elect.How messed up is that.
Bob Free John 10:27-30 comes to mind
@Bob Free This is a video by John MacArthur addressing that problem, hope this helps ruclips.net/video/iHivtfyUmMc/видео.html
So many people on here who simply don't understand calvinism. You can dance around Romans 8 or 9 all you like but it's written there in black and white. And don't say Paul was actually writing about Israel and not personal salvation. Of course he was writing about Israel (God's people). Let's be clear. God decides who is his people. We don't just join it when we feel like it.
God is sovereign. Not you.
Well put Blair!
So Christ only died for the elect and not everyone else?? Yeah that makes sense.
Scripture makes a Difference between, the Gift of Salvation and Faith which is Not a gift but is mans use of Freedom given to him by God, Then Adam chose to disobey God!. Did Adam and Eve Sin before God set the Tree? NO so its Evident that God game man Free Choice! Paul also makes sure that he contrasts Faith and Works. Works cannot get you anywhere with God an Salvation, yet we are Saved unto Good works but never by them-thats why it says Faith comes by Hearing, Not by God Forcing some irresistable Grace on some elect.No Forced Love is a contradiction an i think Calvanists over look this -they must challenge that Faith is an exercise by Sinful man an that God does ALL and Only whats necessary to be Saved!! Thats why they say one must be Regenerated Before one Believes.yet All thru scripture that opposite is clearly shown.The Jailer says What must I DO to recieve Eternal Life.Paul said Believe on Christ an you will be Saved.Faith came here by Hearing not by any Regeneration first.
JESUS Is the Light of the WORLD, not just the Light of Some!!
@Sheep Dog
God is giving all the world His free gift of salvation. You can accept or reject it. God bless you.
@Sheep Dog
That is why my Brother Bob Free deviates from your short messages with no bible scripture lol. God bless you.
@Sheep Dog
With your very elaborate keen messages using bible scripture you have convinced this Christian Traditionalist beyond a reason of a doubt to become a John Calvin advocate so we can torture, burn and kill all the people that don't want to accept reformed theology. We as a team should start wiping out all Catholics, Methodist, Arminians and Traditionalist. Mr. Jim Jones "Sheep Dog" when can we start the slaughter? God bless you.
@Sheep Dog
CAN MAN THEN DO ANYTHING TO PLEASE GOD? ABSOLUTELY. GOD GAVE MANKIND THE CHOICE OF FREE WILL TO ACCEPT OR REJECT HIS FREE GIFT OF SALIVATION. MAN IS MADE ACCORDING TO THE IMAGE OF GOD (GENESIS 1:27.) THE IMAGE OF GOD ACCORDING TO YOU IS WICKED. GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS IMAGE WHERE WE ARE WICKED. SPEAKING ABOUT FREE WILL HERE’S A VITAL VERSE *ISA 30:1 "WOE TO THE REBELLIOUS CHILDREN," DECLARES THE LORD, "WHO EXECUTE A PLAN, BUT NOT MINE, AND MAKE AN ALLIANCE, BUT NOT OF MY SPIRIT, IN ORDER TO ADD SIN TO SIN;. THIS CHILDREN DON’T WANT TO EXECUTE GOD’S PLAN AND MAKE ALLIANCE.
HOSEA 8:4 "THEY SET UP KINGS WITHOUT MY CONSENT; THEY CHOOSE PRINCES WITHOUT MY APPROVAL. WITH THEIR SILVER AND GOLD THEY MAKE IDOLS FOR THEMSELVES TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION."
THIS PEOPLE WERE MAKING IDOLS FOR THEMSELVES W/O GODS APPROVAL. THAT IS CALLED FREE WILL. AN OMNIBENEVOLENT, OMNISCIENT, AND OMNIPOTENT GOD I SERVE COULD HAVE AVOIDED THIS IF HE WANTED 2. HE DIDN’T.
JEREMIAH 19:5 "THEY HAVE BUILT THE HIGH PLACES OF BAAL TO BURN THEIR CHILDREN IN THE FIRE AS OFFERINGS TO BAAL--SOMETHING I DID NOT COMMAND OR MENTION, NOR DID IT ENTER MY MIND."
GOD DID NOT COMMAND, MENTION OR ENTER HIS MIND FOR THIS PEOPLE TO BURN THIS CHILDREN AS OFFERINGS TO BAAL. THIS PEOPLE HAD A FREE WILL OBEYING OR DISOBEYING GOD. THEY CHOSED TO DISOBEY GOD. AN OMNIBENEVOLENT, OMNISCIENT, AND OMNIPOTENT GOD I SERVE COULD HAVE AVOIDED THIS IF HE WANTED 2. HE DIDN’T.
JEREMIAH 32:35 "THEY SET UP THEIR VILE IMAGES IN THE HOUSE THAT BEARS MY NAME AND DEFILED IT. 35 THEY BUILT HIGH PLACES FOR BAAL IN THE VALLEY OF BEN HINNOM TO SACRIFICE THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS TO MOLEK, THOUGH I NEVER COMMANDED-NOR DID IT ENTER MY MIND-THAT THEY SHOULD DO SUCH A DETESTABLE THING AND SO MAKE JUDAH SIN."
GOD DID NOT COMMAND THIS PEOPLE 2 SACRIFICE THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS FOR BAAL. THIS PEOPLE DID IT ANYWAYS. WE CALL THAT FREE WILL. AN OMNIBENEVOLENT, OMNISCIENT, AND OMNIPOTENT GOD I SERVE COULD HAVE AVOIDED THIS IF HE WANTED 2. HE DIDN’T
2 SAMUEL 24:12 “"GO AND SPEAK TO DAVID, `THUS THE LORD SAYS, "I AM OFFERING YOU THREE THINGS; CHOOSE FOR YOURSELF ONE OF THEM, WHICH I WILL DO TO YOU.""' WAS THIS VERSE ALREADY PREDESTINED OR IS GOD GIVING NATHAN 3 OPTIONS TO CHOOSE FROM? WE CALL THAT FREE WILL.
THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU.
@Sheep Dog
THIS ARE YOUR QUESTIONS VERBATIM “Are men totally depraved? Is every faculty of the person corrupted?” MY ANSWER: IT IS HARD TO FIND SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT EXPLICITLY SAYING MEN ARE BORN HATING GOD. SOME THEOLOGIES CAN GET THERE BY IMPLICATION AND THEN FROM THERE MAKE SUCH STATEMENTS. I WOULD SAY MEN BECOME HATERS OF GOD DURING THEIR LIFE THROUGH A PROCESS OF SUPPRESSING TRUTH, REJECTING LIGHT (GOD), AND PURSUING THE DESIRES OF THEIR OWN FALLEN NATURE. AGAIN, I THINK BECOMING A HATER OF GOD IS A PROCESS, YET IT IS SCRIPTURAL THAT ALL ARE BORN IN DARKNESS IN A STATE OF DEPRAVITY AND SPIRITUAL DEATH. ALL ARE IN NEED OF A SALVATION SOURCE BEYOND THEMSELVES. THIS IS THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION FOR YOU. “DO BABIES WHEN THEY DIE GO TO AN AGONIZING TORTUROUS PERPETUAL HELL? THAT ALSO INCLUDES A MENTALLY CHALLENGED PERSON. YOU HAVE SAID THIS TO ME REPEATEDLY THAT WE ARE ALL BORN FROM SIN. WHAT WILL GOD SAY TO A 2 MONTH INFANT OR THE MENTALLY CHALLENGED BEING WHEN THEY DIE? YOU ARE GOING STRAIGHT TO AN ETERNAL HELL BECAUSE YOU WERE BORN W/O LOVING ME AND YOU HAVE INHERIT THE SIN OF ADAM. I’M GOD AND YOU ARE W/O EXCUSES. I NEVER KNEW YOU. WHAT A LOVING GOD YOU SERVE. GOD BLESS YOU. 1 JOHN 4:7-21.
What about preaching to the unelected ? Tell them God loves them but they have been passed over and will suffer an eternity of torment due to no fault of theirs and there is nothing they can do to change God's mind.
Nothing like a clear answer that doesn’t address the root of the question. Also, nothing like listening to a fine mind, articulate an indefensible position.
God, is sovereign, and knows the end even from the beginning. I believe He looked into the future and chose (predestined) the people that made the free will choice to trust and worship Him. Also, nothing can pluck us from His hand but what if we can make the free will choice to turn our backs on Him - even after we know the wonderful truth about Him? (like 1/3 of the angels did). I’ve heard excellent points on both sides of these issues but this may be the answer. I believe God is sovereign, but we must choose to trust, love and worship him. I’ve read the entire Bible several times - and Psalms, Proverbs and the New Testament dozens of times, and I believe it states that God created people that have the free will choice to trust and obey Him. Maranatha.
Yes!! I think so too that he predestined those he knew would believe in his Son Jesus!!
A better question would be how does evangelism make sense under Calvinism?
IIRC, in Calvinism, evangelism is purely in gloriam Dei. No brotherly love, no free will of Calvinist believers commands them to evangelize.
Salvation through "Faith in Jesus Christ" is not a reward for the Righteous, it is a gift to the guilty, for we have all fallen short of the Glory of God. Faith in Christ and the Salvation that results are both gifts from God. God bless everybody in finding the truth. Jesus is truly God the Son.
If it is true, that God only shall save thoses who he has elected to salvation, and in that sense, tbat means when you "come to Christ" God had already determined to save you, than there is no reason to evangelise.
However, this isn't the case, all men are free, and capable of putting their trust In Christ alone for salvation.
Allot trickery from the enemy has hidden themselves as pastors and clergy and likewise.
Read the Scripture in CONTEXT.
same way you read any book.
Otherwise youll be mislead by the enemy.
Christ be with you all.
Calvinism is full of contradictions that are not biblical. Scripture verses quoted by Calvinists to support their doctrine are either taken out of context or misunderstandings between predestination (chosen for services) vs predetermination (chosen for salvation).
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:9-11
C P even if it were not so I would still prefer it over Israel whorshipping name it and claim it 49.95 latest blessing teaching dispensational drivel .Give me St Augustine Calvin Luther etc over the likes of olsteen furtig Meyers and best of all Kenneth Copland.Convenant reformist theology is the truth of God’s soteriology.
It is the way Jesus wanted the elects to know who is God. So, what is the problem?
It could also be that God uses Christians to bring the Gospel to others who are elect but that have not as yet been born again.
Because Calvinists want to make Heaven exclusively for themselves. If the Calvinists make it to heaven; they're in for a big surprise.
so it's a lie when preachers say people are going to hell because we haven't told them the Gospel?
No it's a lie to consistently hold to Calvinism and then preach to others and tell them to repent and believe..
In the very least it's an inconsistency that plagues Calvinism.
But as I always say, thank God for inconsistent Calvinists.
@@rauldelarosa2768 but John Piper shows biblical evidence for Calvinism
don't get me wrong, but i still think there is no such thing as "elect" --people who regardless of their disbelief are saved unconditionally. evangelization without bearing results but only because Jesus commanded us so doesn't glorify God--you're making Him look bad
How can GOD Love People if HE forces them to Believe, an against their will, as calvanists believe! Can we Force our Girl or man in our Relationship with them. NO, What Gives Love its Force IS Freedom to choose an thats why God created Us with Choice as Evidenced when HE set that Tree. We all sin and are Evil as Jesus said but HE told people to Turn To God for forgiveness of our sins. That to me is Real Love, No forcing. Calvanists say that we cannot repent or Turn to GOD ,yet God commands all to do Just That.So grants Grace to all which makes all the sense in the World,coupled with John 3.16 Whosoever believes and Repents can have the Free Gift .Real Good News.
Calvinists generally are great Christians, but Calvin's distinctives have badly led them astray in regard to God's character.
As an Evangelist myself, I am opposed to Calvinism because it effectively makes evangelism a wasteful and worthless endeavor.If Calvinists claim to not be against evangelism, even though they are by definition, my question is simply this:if I were to evangelize with Calvinist views, how exactly would I know who the elect are and who to focus my evangelistic efforts on and who to avoid?
Kyle I'm sorry but I cannot afford to think that way.My plea to God is always for Him to save everyone.Scripture is clear that He desires for all to be saved.I know that ultimately some people will not be saved, but my life's work is to present all with the opportunity to.Those who reject won't die lost because God didn't want them, but because they didn't want Him.Christ died for all.This includes the ones who didn't choose Him, which is where Calvinism gets it wrong.Remember the parable of the people who were invited to the banquet.They were all invited, but some chose not to respond to the invitation.Nowhere does it say that the invitation only went to those who would respond.Calvinism is detrimental to the preaching of the gospel.
a fake and a false teacher
This is exactly why Calvinism is absurd.
Yup.
We evangelize because God saves WHOSOEVER WILL, not just the "elect". Complete man-made doctrine of Calvinism. John Calvin was evil; he burned a man at the stake - Michael Servetus. If I believed what they do, I couldn't know for sure I am saved. What a joy to KNOW without a doubt that I have been born again. RC Sproul now knows the truth. God doesn't predestine anybody to hell. He's not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (II Peter 3:9) Jesus is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only, but also for the sings of the whole world (not elect). (I John 2:2) Jesus also said in Matthew 23:37 after pronouncing woes on the scribes and pharisees "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" No reason to evangelize if you believe what Sproul believed! I'm not an Arminian either, because I do not believe you can lose your salvation. (John 10:28_29, Romans 8:38-39)
Also who are we to save that our evangelism is not the method of God's preordained election?
Yes, GOD chose those who BELIEVE HIS GOSPEL!
And He also apparently created others with the express purpose of their eternal damnation and torment. So that He would receive glory.
#LovingKindness
@@patrickdewhurst3378 - If you believe that - then you might just find out first hand.
Wonderful I had this question as well.
One reason is because the word must be heard whether accepted or not.
The Elect are called to faith by the gospel. If the apostle Paul could have identified the Elect by sight, he would have restricted his ministry to the Elect only, so that they would be spiritually regenerated and justified...the reason for preaching widely to the many is so that God's pre chosen Elect among them will be called to faith.
My heart is saddened for Sproul and other Calvinists. Calvinism is a doctrine from devils that makes believers fall away from the truth, the way and the life.
I think the Riddler from Batman must have been a Calvinist.
the problem is that you are starting out with a loaded question. the problem RC sprouls has is he equates the atonment, dying for our sins to salvation and assumes that if your sins are paid for you will be saved. the bible says quite clearly in Rom 5:10 that we are saved by his life. that's the resurrection. the death on the cross is clearly needed as part of our salvation to wash away the sins. this is done for everyone. 1Jo 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Christ died for everyones sins. clearly stated in the bible. the Calvinist believe that you cant believe without God moving you to believe. There is no verse that says that either. just believe what the bible says. Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. this means all that has to happen is you believe. you dont have to repent of your sins (which is a work). you just have to put your faith (100% in christ as your saviour).
God knows who will believe on him because of his foreknowledge but he does not make you believe, you have freewill. the idea that you are born unable to come to God is not biblical. he gives everyone the ability to decide.
2Co 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
notice that people are blinded by the devil and not simple born in total depravity. The light of the Gospel will overcome the devil and people can decide to believe. once they believe they are sealed with the spirit and forever saved. Praise God. Share the Gospel.
I love R.C. But his response only accentuates the problem with Calvinism. This was a non-answer. Better question: What would happen if we didn’t evangelize at all?
If not for the elect, who (pray tell) would evangelize and tell the truth in the process?
Bilbow Sproul also said that “God ordains not only the ends, but the means to these ends.” So God will send missionaries and draw His elect/chosen/beloved to Himself. Jesus said: “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.” - John 6:44 ESV
@@goseeaboutagirl "Drawn" to Calvinists gets interpreted as "Force" .... strange how that happens
If god predestined who he wants to go to heaven we’re those people ever lost?
Nope never lost just temporary blind
To Calvinists, is it ok for an Atheist to stay Atheist and wait for God's irresistible Grace? If the case is unconditional election. If God's truth can be suppress can we say that it is total depravity? (Wow that man is strong enough to suppress God)
Who is the WHOSOEVER in John 3:16? The Elect?
1 Cor3:6>l have planted Apollos watered but God gave the increase.
>7.So he that.plants is nothing nor he that watered But it ls God who will yield the increase..
*The parables of the* *Talents Matt**25:21*
*Matt**25:23*
*Enter in to the Joy*
*of thy Lord Faithful* *Servant*
Elect for salvation, i don't think so.
Elect for service, yep, that's it.
RC talks like he believes that we would even have a choice of whether or not we participate in evangelizing on his theology. Even hard nose Calvinists can’t help but talk and live as though we have libertarian free will. Maybe that’s because we do.
R.i.p buddy
For who makes you differ from another and what do you have that you did not receive !
But now, if You did indeed receive it, don't boast as if you had not received it. For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the LORD' s Freedman, but One, and the same Spirit works all those things, distributing to each one individually as He Wills. And so I ordain in all the churches, but if anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge all things for you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged!!
But do you have such trust through Christ toward God ??
(( For OUR sufficiency is from God, Who also made US sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit, for the letter kills Amoris Laetitia :))
Great answer
Who are the elect Mr. Sproul? Whosoever will! You've got it all backwards.
Hear the proper exegesis of John 3:16 ruclips.net/video/BDxRss_v78A/видео.html
We know precisely why he instructs us to. So through the exposure to God's Word, some might come to know Christ. Whosoever believes, shall not perish but have eternal life. Any other answer is wrong, false, and worst of all, lazy.
I was thinking, you might evangelize because some of the 'chosen' might not be 'awake' with God yet.??? I always love God and Jesus, but I did not truly know them, till I started reading the Bible. New age Jesus books are liars. The Bible woke me right up!
This doesn't seem to explain the necessity of evangelism at all. He's just saying it's a privilege. So is kids going to chuck e cheese, but it isn't neccesary.
i have the utmost respect for RC but thats why the Earliest of Refomers rejected Limited Atonement and wrote volumes against it!! IN fact there are 5 pt Calvanists that dont Preach at all, an this is Against a direct Command from Jesus in the great commision. Would calavnists say it was GREAT if God saved 1 person. an still call it a great commission. SO many problems in Calvanism an so many Questions i left it .
When you understand just how wretched and rebellious the entire human race is, you will understand why it would be still be a GREAT mercy for our Father to save just 1 person.
Your overall premise is wrong cc , We all know that mankind does evil and sins,but that does Not mean we cant do good things for others an help when we can,and make good moral judgements at times. Thing is We can Never Spiritually come to GOD as we are Dead in the sense that we can Never Gain Salvation on our own!. But God gave us a way to attain Salvation,when he sent Jesus to take our Place IF we believed in HIM -just like Paul told the Jailer! GOD gives all men Grace (unmerited favor) So we are SAVED by Grace,Thru Faith and Faith comes when WE Hear again just as the Jailer Heard. PAUL said believe an you shall be saved. This in no way makes any man a provider of his own Salvation but we need to accept the Gift! That is WHY CC God commands men to REPENT Uturn and put your focus on Jesus.GOD would not need to tell others to Repent if HE already chose!! its so clear i cant see how many can miss it. GOD soo loved US that he gave us a WAY back to HIM an thats the Good News.
I'm afraid it is your presuppositions that are not supported by scripture. Isaiah 64:6 tells us that even our righteous deeds are as FILTHY RAGS before The Lord. When God looks all those "good things" we do for others, when God looks at when we "help" and make "good" moral judgements He only sees FILTHY RAGS. Our own righteousness is DISGUSTING in the sight of God, because none of it is born out of faith.
Romans 14:23 tells us "...For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin." while Hebrews 11:6 tells us "And without faith it is impossible to please God..."
You have literally ignored what I've said just so you can rant against Calvinism. May God have mercy on you.
We are in sin an we all are practical sinners.Are works are like fiilthy rags in Comparison.Who is Like God -No one, But he created US an said it was GOOD an his image.Jesus says you therefore Being Evil, if your Son asked you for bread would you give him a Stone. No, you give him bread which is a good thing But then jesus says so my father who IS Good will give you MUCH MORE and better , if you ask HIM. Ask an you shall recieve. again GOD commands ALL men to change -REPENT follow me .Jesus pleads,your missing it all CC. your trapped that a man cannot REPENT but God tells all men to do just that.
Also no man can come to GOD without his aid or grace.if we cannot come and Repent God is lying? BUT hE is not lying thats why he sent Jesus so that man can Repent.
Didn't answer the question
God,s program is to use the PREACHED Gospel to call out His Elect ( ROM- 1:16 ) So , we not knowing who they are , is why we
Preach the Gospel! He could have used a bird to call them out but HE chose The Preached Gospel !
can someone explain what the elect teaching is please?
The "elect" are God's chosen people, known to Him as Israel, and all of Israel has been predestined to be saved (Romans 11:26). But true Israel is not the physical nation located in the Middle-East, its those who keep the commandments of God and remain faithful to Christ (Revelation 14:12). Paul explains how we as gentiles are able to be grafted into Israel in Romans 11:11-24). For a full understanding of the five points of Calvinism and how they impact our salvation we invite you to watch our video "Salvation Explained using the five points of Calvinism, where we explore each point and its impact, or its lack of impact, on our salvation. May you be blessed in your pursuit of truth!
Calvin redefined predestination as predetermination and elect as select and then threw in a new spin on total depravity for good measure to create his warped theology.
Calvin taught that all people are born so totally depraved that they are unable to desire a relationship with God and are by default headed to hell even though they are depraved by no fault of their own. (That should be the first clue that this is a false teaching because it denies the righteousness of God.)
He claimed that God randomly selected a small number of depraved individuals to save from hell.
But biblically, God elected to save ALL those who believe on Him and want a relationship with Him and that opportunity is extended to all humans. That is different from the idea that God supposedly SELECTED random people to be saved.
Romans 3,
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: 14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. @@touchofgrace3217
How can or would someone to be with God on his own will ?
John 1,
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Not of our own will !
So God gives YOU the unspeakable privilege of participating in the work of redemption??????
Calvinistic synergism!!!!!
Isn’t RC Sproul a Calvinist?
what a great mind
How do i know I'm chosen by God?
www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/one-of-the-elect.html
Because you're alive. You were predestined to be born. Being born again is your choice God is drawing you, if you have not receive him now, repent and be baptized.
Do you love the biblical Jesus perfectly?
If you accept the gift. Don't believe this Calvinist nonsense. If you RECEIVE the gift of salvation, you are saved. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. ANYBODY can be saved. :)
Me 04:47
I believe as you said that we can't decide who will and can be saved because it's it's entirely up to individuals. I strongly believe God wants everyone if possible to be saved. Some will not , not because they have been predestined but because they won't on their own for any reason but entirely there own. God is not unjust. He sis not create anyone and predestined him to go to hell. He wants everyone to be saved and that is why we evangelise. We can simply just sit at home and hope that the predestined will surely be saved no matter what and we don't even need the church for edification of the brethren since the predestined heaven-bound ones will still make it no matter what. I strongly advice we reconsider this doctrine of election. Thanks sir.
This is in response to the doctrine that states that some people are predestined for salvation. If I think my son is, then why not others. RC just brought up his grand son who I assume is predestined but not another person's grandson.
Thanks
Its the Word if God that saves.
Thank you for your wisdom Mr. Sproul.....so simple and yet so powerful! How few today can see this simple truth that you shared here!
what if in the end you find out you're not 'elect'?
@@blackfalkon4189 That's the truth isn't?