Stereo Bass vs Dual Mono Signal Subwoofers
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Stereo Bass is the idea of 2 subwoofers producing different signals (one left, one right) and I understand the intention. However, if it is a left and right channel, when one channel goes silent, the dual subwoofers are no longer working together to tame the peaks and dead spots.
I think the best part about dual subwoofers is ironing out the sound, and to do that properly I think they need an identical signal and gain.
Separated main channels deliver the sense of things happening around you, so the goal is to separate the signals and separate the perception.
With dual subs, the purpose in my mind is to separate the bass sources in order to unify the perception in an even fashion. Under 80 hertz it's harder to localize, or tell where the bass is coming from, so the actual benefit of having a stereo bass situation is lost on me.
Thoughts?
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Subwoofers should reproduce quality sound with authority throughout the humanly audible bass spectrum (20-100 hertz). Most do not. I'll tell you about the subs that do so with good manners.
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Here is the setup at the time of upload:
Amplifier, same as mine (X2000), but updated for 4k and dual subwoofers: amzn.to/20gm9ZY
Consider stepping up to an amp with preouts in case you want to get separate power amps later. The X2000 does not have them, I believe the X3200 does: amzn.to/1OgRKkJ
Speaker wire: sub101.link/Mo...
Provided on a demo basis by SVS:
Towers:
amzn.to/1hcwILH
Surrounds:
amzn.to/1GTFf1O
These surrounds are more budget friendly:
amzn.to/1XDW2NZ
Center:
amzn.to/1GTFnhY
Dual Subwoofers:
amzn.to/1IMrPSq
LG 4K 3D that I replaced previous Vizio with a Square Trade type warranty. Love the LG, some issues aside.
amzn.to/20gn2BV
Measurement Mic for use with Room EQ Wizard:
amzn.to/1XDWQlV
Room EQ Wizard (free, donations encouraged, use earplugs!):
www.roomeqwizar...
Subscribe for more videos like this, and feel free to share, comment, and ask questions. 
Наука
I THINK YOUR HORSE IS DEAD
Just checked his pulse, still good...
You are correct, bass should not be localized, therefore stereo subs doesn't really make sense. What's up with that Hsu sub?
+headunits I had it out for another video, and I was getting ready to send the PB-1000's back so I had to bring the HSU back out for duty.
spoke with Rel tech today...says if they were to hook up 2 subs, it would be in high level stereo...i guess you dont have enough space to spread your speakers out?
REL and I would choose to set up subs differently. If the goal is constructive interference, and one channel has missing, or different bass, constructive interference won't occur as well, or not at all in some cases.
It might not be as apparent as a single subwoofer, but it wouldn't be as good as a single mono signal with two matched subwoofers.
As far as I am aware, most high quality AVR's put out a shared mono signal, even across 2-4 subwoofer outputs, and high quality room correction will EQ all subwoofers at once, rather than individually.
You might be able to adjust level and distance independently, but the bass will not typically be stereo.
The point of multiple subwoofers is to combine the output, not have 2 independent signals.
It's the same reason I oppose mixing subwoofers. For the best results, both signal and subwoofer should be identical.
Sorry to disagree with their opinion, but it's what I have experienced.
That dog is dead!
Call DiCaprio e re-shoot the bear scene in your carpet.
Have your viewpoints changed in the last 8 yrs? I'm considering stereo subs now. When running mono, any phase cancellation will happen at signal level, while some engineers make a point of having the cancellation better happen acousticly as it would in real life, giving a better feel of spacial awareness ...or some such.
I know about standing waves and dead spots etc, which is the reason of multiple subs in the first place, but I don't feel that's enough to keep me from running real stereo configuration vs mono. It's no worse than running a single.
But... The only way I'll want to do this, is using high level from speaker outputs. At that point, I'll loose LFE channel. But not sure exactly how important that is.
ruclips.net/video/Sl_QUT-uWqo/видео.html
Here is a video from Rel arguing for a stereo dual subwoofer configuration. What are yours thoughts on this? Thanks in advance.
I'm not impressed.
Kind of shocked, just as I was in reading about how they think DSP is a bad idea. Ok.
Constructive interference is how dual subwoofers smooth out response.
Identical sound waves, interacting with each other to produce an effect. Meaning more than 1 source.
Dual matched subwoofers will almost always be better than a single.
In a stereo configuration, if one channel goes silent, constructive interference is GONE.
That never happens with a mono signal. Both subs are always working like they should.
Together.
Stereo signal, dual subwoofer bass is better than a single subwoofer "MOST of the time".
Mono signal, dual subwoofer bass is better "ALL of the time".
I know what I prefer.
I feel like I'm being pit against them, but the basics of constructive interference is all that really matters.
I would suggest forgetting what either party has to say, do your own research on constructive interference, and figure out how that happens when 1 subwoofer out of 2 falls silent.
I know what happens.
@@Subwoofer101 Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. In my case, I have a two channel system with bookshelf speakers (Buchardt S400 Mkii) and I currently have a single sub (NHT SW1p) to augment the bass of the S400s. In this context, the concept of running two subs in stereo kinda makes sense because such a configuration is very similar to operating two tower speakers with built in subwoofers in which case the subwoofer in the left speaker receives the Left channel bass information while the subwoofer in the right tower receives the Right channel bass information. Having said this, I'm an electrical engineer and I do understand the benefits of running two spatially spread-out subs driven by the same mono signal over a running a single sub, although I wouldn't describe the benefit as constructive interference. I found your use of the term confusing at first when I watched your video. I think what you're trying to say is operating two subs in mono makes it much less likely to experience dead spots (a.k.a. destructive interference) for any given location in the room as the dead spots of the two subs are unlikely to coincide if the subs are not co-located. This concept makes a lot of sense to me, and it's actually known as spatial diversity in communications engineering and the very reason we put 2 or more antennas on Wifi routers for example. My plan is to experiment with properly placed stereo subs while making sure my listening position is not a dead spot for either sub.
Reducing dead spots happens when the exact same sound waves come from non colocated sources, in proper time.
You're reducing the standing wave effect.
It's probably the best, but not the only, effect of identical dual subwoofers, with identical signal.
While not a perfect analogy, using the exact same subwoofers is almost like using the same frequency and sub-frequency in radio communications.
I have some digital CB radios. I'll use channel 3, with a sub-frequency of 12.
If the other radio is on channel 3, with a sub-frequency of 11, you might get some communication, but it's not going to be correct.
Again, that's not a perfect analogy at all, FAR from it, but a similar thing happens with bass.
2 subwoofers that are "similar" are not going to interact nearly as well as 2 subwoofers that are the "same".
Say that 2 subwoofers are REALLY close, just a slightly different cabinet shape, or different power amps.
It's going to be better than a single, but not as good as if they were identical subwoofers.
I've tested this several times, and the greater the disparity, the worse it was.
Similar 12's together, then similar 15's, and then to a very dissimilar 10 and a 15.
As a side note, the least powerful subs were dominant in the sound, rendering the increased power of the superior subwoofer nearly ineffective.
Rather than the more powerful sub "lifting up" the weaker sub, the weaker sub brought the more powerful sub down to its level. That was unexpected.
All of this to say how much of an impact very small differences can have.
The timing shift of my Distance Hack is pretty noticeable, even to novice listeners with no interest in audio.
Really opens things up, measurably reducing destructive interference caused by the dissimilar sound waves of the subs and the mains.
By delaying the mains by a few milliseconds, allowing bass decay to occur sooner, it provides a noticeably tighter, more cohesive sound.
It's one of my most popular hacks, for good reason.
So, when you use stereo bass, you are delivering similar, but not IDENTICAL signals to your subs.
If running similar subs instead of identical subwoofers is not optimal, doesn't it stand to reason that the same applies to the signals themselves?
Stereo bass WILL WORK. Definitely.
So will mixed subwoofers.
But why do that, when you can do it right?
I can unequivocally say that there is NO benefit to stereo bass over mono, only the opportunity for degradation of sound quality, where no opportunities exist for such degradation in mono signal to identical dual subwoofers.
I can think of one more reason someone might think it's advantageous to have stereo bass.
Localization.
The bass "coming from" the right or left side of the room.
Bass, especially in a dual subwoofer configuration, is not something you can localize, if everything is done right.
So if you have a deep, upright bass guitar in the right channel, you will hear that bass BETTER if it is mono bass dual subwoofers.
Why?
Because you're reducing the standing wave effect by using identical subwoofers and signals.
If it's a single subwoofer because the left sub is inactive, you will hear bits and pieces because of the standing wave effect.
The best part is that with dual mono subwoofers, the "presentation" of that upright bass guitar will absolutely be "coming from" the right channel, *more clearly* than if you had stereo bass subwoofers.
The ability to localize the sound occurs above the range of the subwoofers.
Localization is the only thing I can imagine that might make someone think stereo bass is better.
But since it doesn't occur in a subwoofer's frequency response range in the first place, it's immaterial.
In an attempt to increase localization in a frequency range where it doesn't occur in the first place, you are bringing back the standing wave effect, negating the best effect of dual subwoofers in the first place: reducing peaks and nulls.
I'm really trying to help here, I don't care about being right or winning.
Bass, in practical end use, is something that I happen to understand pretty well.
If you can entertain the idea that I might know what I'm talking about, despite being a one man show, and not a multinational corporation with the clout to go with it, cool.
Thomas Edison spent a fortune trying to prove how dangerous Nikola Tesla's A/C power was, too dangerous to use.
He electrocuted an elephant. Rather despicable, if you ask me.
In the end, Edison switched to Alternating Current anyway.
Why? Because the properties were superior, more efficient, and more effective in transmission.
Hundreds of miles for AC, rather than the few blocks the way Direct Current is limited.
So history goes...
@@Subwoofer101 Wow thank you for the time and thought you put into your reply. There's a lot to digest here. I'll be doing some more research and thinking about what you said.
did u get to the bottom of this, which is better mono or stereo bass? I have dual sb1000 pro for a 2 channel setup (stereo). I was running them as mono it sounded good now I'm running them as stereo it also sounds good but different. my question is which one is ideal?
Mono.
As stereo, you're basically running 2 singles. I know that might be confusing, but they are getting slightly different signals. Reducing the benefits of duals.
As mono, the same exact signal combines for constructive interference, which is what you're really wanting to achieve with dual subs.
Rel suggests:
2 channel Amps- use high level only...each sub gets same signal as speakers...left sub gets same signal as left speakers- to blend better with speaker...same for right sub/speaker...coming from speaker posts on rear of amp...
If you have AVR receiver- use both high level and LFE...so you hear the DSP from the AVR...like in movies...using sub out on AVR...& High level speakon cable from amp speaker outputs
Maybe this doesn't work for you because you use a different type Sub...look at the back pannel of a Rel T9X or T7X...its designed for what Rel says
I'm sure REL designed it that way, and it's not particularly unique.
I still wouldn't set it up that way. I know it's not ideal in practice.
Dual subwoofers aren't about blending with the main speakers, it's about constructive interference *between the subwoofers*.
Constructive interference happens when both subwoofers produce the same thing.
Stereo does not always do that.
You also can't optimally phase shift the subwoofers from the main speakers, if you're running speaker level input.
You can use 180 phase, but that means the bass is trailing the mains.
Bass has a longer decay. Coming in "late" is worse than the bass coming in early.
The mains should trail the subwoofers, see my Distance vs Level Hack for more explanation.
Adding 4 feet to the subwoofers, post room correction, makes the bass populate the room before the mains, overcoming a lot of cancelation between the mains and the subwoofers.
You can tell me what Denon would suggest, Pioneer, Klipsch, Bose, SVS, REL, Monoprice, or whoever else you can think of that has more clout than me.
If I know it's not optimal from real world experience, I will disagree.
Set up your system however you like. Enjoy the hobby, that's what it's about!
Independent/stereo signal to dual subwoofers negates some of the benefits of dual subwoofers.
I wouldn't do it unless I had no choice. Like my hodgepodge setup, which is knowingly not optimal.
Thankfully, aside from distance and level, the actual signal itself is duplicated across all subwoofer outputs on most quality AVRs.
Not in stereo. Mono.
Quality room correction also EQs all subwoofers together. Not separately. Like stereo would be.
Probably a reason for that.
Good luck, I know slogging through various opinions from various experts is taxing, trying to figure out who's right.
It's one of the reasons I started the channel.
I'm going to try using 4 subs. 2 in stereo and 2 in mono. Cross over the stereo ones a little higher and set the gain a little lower.
You are correct Mono bass signal to all subwoofers. I'm a big QUAD channel fan and run a and b surrounds ,all set to small on The 1812 Overture cannon shots do move around My room to all 4 speakers. By the way SVS outlet sale going on now, Ordered 2nd SP1000 and 2 prime satellites. and told sales Rep about seeing two SP1000's on Subwoofer 101.
+Toby Hines Thanks Toby! Their outlet stuff is great since there is zero difference with warranty. You can even upgrade within a year from outlet purchases at full price. And the speakers come already broken in!
I think you're right on the money. I'm bi-amping my tower speakers and driving the woofers with mono sub-woofer outputs, set to 100 Hz crossover, driving external amps. Essentially dual subs. It sounds smooth and clean.
Them dog men! I thought it's a fucking carpet paint or weird shit. Dog is love, dog is life!
Mine's 12 years old and still running like a 2 y/o one, which does not really help me not to think about the future... :) Long live the dog!
Haha, thanks!! May they stay forever puppies!
I have a dilemma. My front towers can hit mid 40HZ but my center and rears are only 90Hz. I think bass sounds better with my global crossover set at 80Hz but this leaves a hole at 90Hz on my rears and center. Alternatively I can run the crossover at 100hz but I can localize the sub more and it doesn't sound quite as good... But no hole. What would you do?
Dual deep bass subwoofers would alleviate localization, and you would be able to hear all of the bass.
With a single subwoofer, you're always going to be in a spot that has a frequency that's too loud, as well as a frequency that's too quiet.
It's the standing wave effect, and wherever you move in the room, you will be in a dead spot and a loud spot. The frequency points change as you move within the room.
With a single subwoofer, there is no sweet spot.
You can check out my list of subwoofers in the video description, and I would also be sure to run matching deep bass subwoofers. Mixing is not ideal.
With dual deep bass subs, You can run your crossovers much higher, in fact for my little satellite speakers, I run between 120 and 150 hertz. No localization.
You should also check out my distance hack, gain hack, and crossover hack videos.
all that and you didnt explain what the other sub is there for. im guessing its not hooked up, or its also split, so that you can pump up the mono bass even more . e.g. triple mono.
What size are those? 3 10's, or a 12 and 2 10's? i know your mainly taking about only the 2 10's. I like what your suggesting, and thinking, i totally agree!!! we all want more bass, so mono is best.
I was watching to answer a different question which you didnt address. I havent really explored mono before, then i saw this image that messed me up, it said left + right = mono sum of both, something like that. what the heck is that. e.g. if i amp doesnt say "mono" on the left, is the left not the sum, and will just be left, and not perform when theres only right bass? e.g. does it HAVE TO SAY MONO in order to become a sum of both right and left?
So even if so, or not, i can take a left+right in to an unbalanced out to make the net sum, for a mono sum input right?
So anyway, is that what you did, or what is a "splitter"?
That's a good question.
Regarding subwoofers, with most AVR's, the "subwoofer out" is the sum of all LFE signals, as well as each channel under the crossover point that is set as Small, which I believe should be the case 99% of the time.
So say watching an Atmos movie, properly decoded, you can have 11+ speakers all contributing to the subwoofer output, as well as the dedicated LFE channel in the movie track.
It's all summed into a single, signal for the "subwoofer out".
Dual or quad outputs you ask? Should all be the same signal, or "duplicate signal".
Some AVR's have subwoofer 1 and 2, but it could easily be labeled left and right.
If they are doing it right, it should be the same exact signal, with the only difference being gain and timing (the distance setting is timing) both of which are adjustable by you.
A splitter is a simple 1 into 2 RCA splitter or Y adapter that lets you run dual subs with a single subwoofer output AVR.
Hopefully I answered your question. It can bend the mind a little. 🧐
no right or wrong...its up to personal choice and your ears😂
I trust the Rel engineers and my my ears... I definitely want my speakers to blend with the sub where the sub disappears and then my stand mount speakers along with the sub on each side with the mains to make the speakers sound like large floor speakers😁🎶🎶🎶
If something is not optimal, there is an ideal way, and a less than ideal way.
In this case, it's not so much preference as it is physics.
Constructive interference requires 2 or more sources (subwoofers, preferably identical) to work.
When a stereo signal has a left channel with bass, and a right channel with no bass (as happens in stereo), you effectively have a single subwoofer, instead of duals, if 1 is quiet.
In a mono signal, both subs get the same exact signal, regardless of left and right distribution.
You get the dual subwoofer benefit 100% of the time.
So one gets the benefit of dual subwoofers ALL of the time (mono), the other does not (stereo).
The choice of how you set it up is all yours.
I would recommend learning about constructive interference, and how it works.
Take my opinion and REL's out of the equation, and see what conclusions you draw on your own.
I don't think I ever said you don't want to blend your subs with your main speakers.
You definitely do.
You don't achieve that with speaker level subwoofer inputs, you adjust speaker size setting to small, adjust crossover to 80+ hertz, and then adjust subwoofer gain to match them up so they sound like one.
And if you want the best possible cohesion, my "distance hack" shifts the timing of the bass, so that bass decay begins *during* the moment of "perfect timing".
Speaker level subwoofer inputs guarantee that it happens after perfect timing.
You can introduce a controlled delay from the subs to the mains, or place your subwoofers 4 feet closer than the mains.
Sounds messy.
I see no benefits to speaker level subwoofer inputs over an LFE input.
I'm probably totally wrong though...😅
Great points for the "working man's" HT system...meaning that when I watch Audioholics vids make the case for discrete SW outputs, I feel it needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because I (like you) have very limited options for SW placement. I also never intend to hang a bunch of acoustic treatments on the wall...space better served for pics of my dog and family:-)
Not qualified.
Spot on! I recently just upgraded from 7 ch to a 9 ch AVR that just happened to have independent sub outs but I'm still using only 1 channel and letting a miniDSP handle all the rest of the time / phase aligning of all my 4 subs and buttkickers. Later down the line I might try the stereo separation with the buttkickers but no change with the subs (essenially running 2 independent sub outs on the avr with the exact same settings and letting the minidsp sum them for the subs but keeping the left and right separate for the buttkickers on both sides of my couch).
Having two subs I get to thinking that if you could increase your pre amp voltage you could increase the output of your subs! With you splitting your sub out you might need it! But back in the day, in cars I would recomend a line driver, to boost the voltage from roughly 2 V up to 7! Now in a house I would like to try it! Now of coarse you would have to power the line driver in D.C. power however I'm thinking it miguel be worth the trouble
That center channel looks just like the old Boston Acoustics VR 12 center channel.
That SnootierCarpet guy down there has been commenting on everybody's videos putting their systems down, when they have PB-13 Ultras. And he has the 99$ Polk PSW-10. Don't feed into the trolling (he may have actual issues I'm not sure) just wanted to let you know. Love your channel and the info it talks about!
I thought he was a troll, and he is. But after watching a few of his videos I understood that he is operating on a different set of factors/inputs. He has attached himself to my channel. I only respond when it's not Crystal clear that he is not offering feedback based in reality, as a courtesy to my newer viewers. When he kept talking about a removed plate amplifier as a port, I thought he was just trolling me, but then I saw the port in his video. Poor fella. For sure, nobody should take his comments seriously. Good looking out! I already tried blocking him but his comments still made it through, I just couldn't see them like my audience could, which is even worse to me.
+Subwoofer 101 I just wanted to comment to maybe help you by telling you that your frustration with this person is shared among others. I wish you could see the stuff he's said to me on other videos. It doesn't make sense at all.
+MatthewPickles Hoffman I tried to send you the video but it ended up sharing the ad that was playing. Sorry about that. I hope to see your channel grow!
+MatthewPickles Hoffman Thanks, me too!
I HAVE A 5.2 WITH 2 SUBS THE SIGNAL IS THE SAME TO BOTH SUBS. IF YOU LISTEN TO RINGOS DRUM SOLO ON ABBY ROAD (THE END) . TURN OFF YOUR SUBS TURN UP YOUR BASE. YOU WILL HEAR A STONG STERIO AFFECT IN HIS SOLO. I DONT KNOW BUT IT MAY BE STRONGER WITH SUBS.
Hey Subwoofer 101, Raymond here. Awesome video as always my friend. Very educational and golden info. I too have a Denon AVR but can you please tell me exactly where to find the mono setting? I think I know but just want to make sure I adjust the right setting and not mess something up lol. Anyway, I love your videos and watch them almost every day. Please keep up the great work and happy listening.
oh ya two subs do sound better than one enhanced frequency spacecial precence big words I know sound like a pancake the way you have that set up and you receiver looks non hi resolution nice system turn it up a little allan canada
Do you have an update to this? If you still feel the same, how do I run my .2 into 2 subs mono?
+Jeremy Crabtree Most AVR's run a mono signal. There can be a difference in distance, which can have an effect. I keep my distance values the same, but they are about the same distance anyway. This can get way more complicated than I care to get into, but my personal feeling is that I want a unified wall of bass. I try to keep the subwoofers equidistant to my main listening position.
I'm also a believer in using the exact same model subwoofer, not just similar.
That said, you can still have issues. Some people report one output producing more signal than the other. You can get a basic RCA splitter and just use the primary output. You can add 10 subwoofers this way if you wanted. It doesn't degrade signal.
It may seem counterintuitive to do that, but some people prefer it. If you do go that route, I would run room correction again.
I have RCA splitters listed on my Amazon page if you need one. www.amazon.com/shop/subwoofer101
Subwoofer 101 I really jumped thru some tight hoops & pushed away very nice .1 recievers for a lesser (not alot) .2 reciever, so neglecting that extra port is saddening. This is going to send my OCD thru the roof!! Unfortunately it has to be done. Non the less, it'll be interesting to see if I can actually hear a difference when the time comes. Thx again for all the help!
+Jeremy Crabtree I understand 100%, symmetry and reason is the foundation of daily life for many. I don't know that I'm legit OCD, but I don't do well with things that don't function as designed. I blame Asperger's, a "disorder" I'm happy to have.
If it makes you feel any better, and it should, you probably get better room correction from the .2 AVR over the .1 (that's a guess).
I've had a few people tell me that the newer AVR's have a better sound, and the room correction is the difference that I suspect people are noticing.
Beyond that, the difference between running both outputs or both on one may not be substantial. If you had an AVR that specifically ran stereo bass (don't know of any), or were trying to get the signal from left and right 2 channel setups, then it would be more of an issue. Most AVR's run mono signal, fortunately.
Hey Subwoofer 101, Raymond here. Awesome video as always my friend. Very educational and golden info. I too have a Denon AVR but can you please tell me exactly where to find the mono setting? I think I know but just want to make sure I adjust the right setting and not mess something up lol. Anyway, I love your videos and watch them almost every day. Please keep up the great work and happy listening.
Wow. Amazing information my friend. Very educational. I will be sure to make sure my AVR is on mono. I too have a Denon but do you know where exactly that setting is? I have an idea but want to make sure I change the right setting that you're referring to. BTW, I lovee your channel and watch your videos almost everyday. Please keep up the golden work.
You have an incredible system there you do. If I can only use mono on my sub because I don't have a "y" adapter will my sub sound weak? Subscribed! Thanks
Wow. Amazing information my friend. Very educational. I will be sure to make sure my AVR is on mono. I too have a Denon but do you know where exactly that setting is? I have an idea but want to make sure I change the right setting that you're referring to. BTW, I lovee your channel and watch your videos almost everyday. Please keep up the golden work.
does the dog like it :)
+fred life Funny enough, I will be doing a video on that subject. In my opinion, there is a difference in pet friendly subwoofers, or more specifically, types of subs that are less pet friendly.
hej , i think you are the man in need 😉 ik have a room 50 square feet , I want to buy 2 svs pb 1000 , is this a good choice , ore 2 svs pb 2000 are a beter choice for me ?? greetz
Bass is not unidirectional, stereo bass is pointless and mundane and pretty much for people who don’t understand how sound works. In a natural setting you can’t really pinpoint where bass is coming from.
Those dead spots in your room are from standing waves, which will be amplified by 2 subwoofers. Those “quiet” spots in your room are the proper volume, the loud spots in your room are where the bass sound waves are intersecting causing a 6db boost in signal. This is dumb. You are wasting money, time and breath.
It's well known that dual subs REDUCE the standing wave effect, not amplify it.
I don't have the loud spots (peaks, modes, etc) with duals, like I reliably get with a single. The only time I experience loud spots with duals is near boundaries, known as boundary gain.
The 6 dB increase is across the board, and very even across the entire bass range. The subs don't have to work as hard.
The quiet spots in the room from a single subwoofer is not the proper level, but a cancellation of the sound, which cannot be effectively boosted. You can add 10 dB, but you might only hear 1-2 dB, overworking the sub for little gain.
The only way to truly "recover" the cancelled response, is to add an identical sub, in phase, to produce constructive interference and even response throughout the listening area.
Your comment is proof that I'm not wasting my time. I do agree that stereo bass is pointless, because if 1 channel produces bass and the other remains quiet, at that moment you essentially have a single subwoofer. Instead, dual mono, or two subs producing an identical signal, is the right way to go. Even, proper bass.
Hey Subwoofer 101, Raymond here. Awesome video as always my friend. Very educational and golden info. I too have a Denon AVR but can you please tell me exactly where to find the mono setting? I think I know but just want to make sure I adjust the right setting and not mess something up lol. Anyway, I love your videos and watch them almost every day. Please keep up the great work and happy listening.
Fortunately, with the Denon, they are already a mono signal. However, you can get in to your distance settings and try setting the subwoofers to the same distance. Keep note of where Audyssey set them at, and probably go with the higher number.
See how that sounds and if you notice a difference. Then, try adding 3-4 feet. 4 feet seems to be right for me, but always trust your ears.
Hi sir, i have a question. If I decide to buy a, for example, 5.1 setup for watch movies but at the same time I wanna listen to some music by ,for obvious reasons, emulating the stereo on the 5 speakers, what happens with the bass? to be exact, where it goes the Right channel bass, in case that the LFE channel goes in mono only. I know that is way much better go with a 2.0 for music, but in the case of going 5.1, that is my doubt... hope u can understand, sorry for my english, CHEERS!!
+Nico Vzz I think I understand, and it depends on your crossover settings. If your speakers are set to large, very little bass signal will go to your subwoofer. On some amplifiers, you will get no bass signal for that channel.
Setting all speakers to small, which I recommend, diverts the signal below the crossover setting to the subwoofers in (hopefully) a mono signal.
Ideally, you want two subwoofers to reproduce the exact same sound to overcome the standing wave effect. The standing wave effect makes it louder in some areas and quieter in others, depending on where you stand and what the frequency is. The wave shifts in the room with the frequency change. With two subs, this problem is reduced greatly.
Bass is funny, because if you have a stereo signal and only one side is producing Bass, you lose the effect of canceling out the standing wave.
+Nico Vzz I will add that if there is supposed to be bass coming from one side or the other, it will sound like that because the parts that are able to be localized are higher up in the frequency range.
Very grateful to you for your response! I'm new to audio so now I understand a little bit more. At the end I went with a 2.0, I did it myself with a couple of speakers and an old radio and to be honest it sounds pretty well for music, I still have not tried movies though. I must admit that it is a little unbalanced (different impedance i think) , I have more bass on the left channel, but in practice you can't tell the difference. so thanks for your comments! I like the channel too. (SorryForBadEnglish)
Great video, I never considered leaving the front towers as Small on the settings. I tested it and you're right. The subs are just better at producing the lowest frequencies by themselves. Left the crossover at 80hz, Thank you
Cross over at the low mains frequency response.
i have 7.2 nice but not always practical sometimes single woofer better when cranking sorry about some negative comments your cool for putting up videos
What kind of AVR are you using? Does it have room correction? If so, when it samples, are all subs sampled at the same time, or one at a time? If they are never sampled together, using a splitter instead of both sub outputs might yield better results. I'm used to the abuse, no worries. -The Potato Farmer
I've been told duals suck especially when you crank them they sound like they are about to blow up I was thinking of buying a kit for my car but IDK to go with 1 dual box or just 1 12 inch speaker along with the amp of course but are duals that bad or no?
Duals are the only way to go in a home environment. Not 100% on car audio, but I would certainly include 2 subs if I was building something for my own car. If duals sound like they are about to blow up, I'd be suspect of the subs themselves, or their configuration (phase issues, wiring, etc.). I'd do separate boxes if I could though, and try to separate them a little if possible. Harder to do in a car than a living room. Again, not my area of expertise, but I see an awful lot of dual subs in car audio. Must be something to it.
I have a 5.1 but I put it in the middle of the room just under the tv with a hand made tv furniture so it can if in it and i can say I have very even sound cause its in the middle but I don't know I was going for 5.2 but since I did that I don't know if its worth it
Here are my thoughts: ruclips.net/video/aQz0VbueIEE/видео.html
The question is whether the sub you have now is worth buying another, or whether you should change to a different set of dual subs: www.subwoofer101.com/best-subwoofers/
My Yamaha 7.1 has the bass option of keeping front speakers large and still send bass to them and the sub.
Double Bass (LFE+Mains) is the worst thing you can do in bass management. Instead of 2 subs that you can move around and possibly dial in with a miniDSP, you bring in low frequency waves from your fronts, that you cannot place ideally from bass perspective most of the time (like moving to the sidewalls, or have assimetrical placement if your room would ask for that in terms of low frequency). Keep them towers as well small, and cross them over to subs. Also your AVR will thank you big time.
You say mono dual is better because they even out the peaks/nulls that can result from a single sub, but this is more of a problem in certain room than others, no? Isn't it possible for each sub to sound fine from the LP without the reinforcement of the other sub?
I don't have dual subs (or any right now actually, but thinking of going dual), but I wonder - are subs really that 'unlocalized'? i.e. if you have only the left sub, and there's bass going to the right channel, would the combination of mid-high freq from right tower + low freq from left sub really make it sound like it's coming from the right? Surely it will sound more 'proper' if the right tower's sound meshes with a right sub?
Also, I think it might yet be possible to try stereo subs with your current equipment. Zone 2 out to each sub, which will filter out low freq at the crossover for its RCA outs, then to an amp/receiver.
And thanks for the video :)
+Jason Setiawan Every enclosed room, as far as I can tell, is subject to standing waves, which create peaks and nulls. Walk around the room while listening to consistent bass heavy content. You will notice in many places the bass disappears, and other places it gets louder. Dual subs, placed correctly, causes the waves to interact, producing many more smaller standing waves. This increases the likelihood of being able to hear all of the bass in most listening areas. It irons out the room.
+Subwoofer101 Subbing, theory seems very interesting. I have 12 15" drivers I just built and I'm playing with different boxes & modifying the suspensions to get out the most. Switching from a single 15" to dual in the next version of the box, I don't want to miss on anything.
Do you know what a standing wave is??? Lol.what causes standing waves?
I will leave you alone to your mundane experiments, and I will continue to be an audio engineer. Have a great day bub.
I sure do. Duals reduce the the standing wave effect in an enclosed room, they don't amplify it unless the phase is incorrect or the subs are mismatched.
It's plainly measurable. Using Room EQ Wizard, you can see nulls disappear by adding a second identical sub and running room correction again. A rollercoaster bass response flattens right out. It's not a guess or my imagination. You can hear all of the bass, rather than fragments.
You might have worked around audio for 50 years, even longer, but you are still wrong on this one opinion. Plenty of sound engineers disagree with your opinion.
I've had arguments like this before, and they go nowhere until the sound engineer goes back to school. The benefits of multiple subs in an enclosed room are WELL documented.
Even medical doctors are horribly misinformed about certain conditions, it happens. The low fat diet was a colossal failure, and 4 out of 5 doctors used to recommend cigarettes. A lot more education than you received didn't make them right either.
Sometimes someone learns the wrong thing and it sticks forever. Having an education doesn't make you infallible. The smartest people are able to understand that their education might not have been 100% accurate, and they adjust accordingly to new and more accurate information.
Try reading the research done by Dr. Floyd Toole. He's a sound engineer too, and yet you and him carry starkly opposite opinions on multiple subs. Only one of you can be right. Spoiler, it's not you.
Keep spamming my channel, and I will keep responding consistently.
@@Subwoofer101 wow, highly intelligible pWnage!
Can u review budget champs like Dayton Sub1200
It's kinda up to spec really, if you search there are some reviews. :)
Still not a fan of heavy cones.
Is that a Great Pyrenees??? It looks just like mine but black
+Grant McCord Bear does have 1/4 Great Pyrenees, but mostly Newfoundland. The white dog, Angel, is a Tibetan Mastiff who constantly gets mistaken for Great Pyrenees because of her color.
please smoke up before reviewing yourself
your speculating move your subs to the corner 12 to 15 inches from wall and throw that big one in the basement don't you know anything about speaker placement
I run dual HSU subs on marantz 7.2 av. I tried kiddie corner placement. Not bad. I put them both up front. Whoah!!!! That's the ticket. Amazing for music and movies. They're paired with Martin Logan lx16.