Slash Command Studios Fair enough but I don't know enough about them. so when choosing weapons for my paladin in DND I just wanted the one that does D8 damage but still be a finesse weapon so I can multiclass it into rogue, I know it's used with a buckler since that is literally what swashbuckling is
Slash Command Studios I think a buckler is more what I would use for a spear or a trident but that’s just my opinion as you could use the spear(or trident) for far reaching attacks while holding the buckler close in case they got past your spear tip(s)
I think that I will never feel confortable without anything that is not a shield, I am definetly really bad at rapier and dagger, never tried with buckler though. By the way, is that shield heavy? doesn't look too much.
3.3kg, so not too bad, you certainly notice it after a while though. If you can fight well with a shield, you should be able to build up similar skills without it.
I have a question (not trolling genuinely want to know) I know with knives that quick small thrusts are the way, is it deflection that makes that not so with longer blades? If not why is this not a used practice?
Largely because the range the sword gives. Fighters stay at a large distance for protection, were they already at a distance that small quick thrusts can be made, they are too close. That isn't to say desperate close in fights didn't go that way, but every single European sword treatise/manual advises you to keep a distance where a step is required to strike, either by lunging or using passing footwork.
Possibly. We just haven't got any as they're hard to get. It is on my list to get. There were of course all sorts of other devices to catch thrusts, spikes, hooks, raised rings etc. All of which are unsafe to use in sparring.
So the moral of the video is: shields are really good defensive weapons. If you know you are going to get into a fight with light or no armor and you have a sword, grab a shield. :-)
They are indeed, and they also make all the difference against pole arms. Of course the big dilemma is that they are rarely practical for use in civilian wear for self defence, which is where the buckler comes in to its own. The shield did see use with private bodyguards, militias etc though, as well as in war of course.
Yeah, it is not like the video games where you can sling a shield on your back in an instant (with the push of a button) and go about your day as if nothing is there! The buckler is definitely better as a civilian self-defense weapon which, like all civilian self-defense weapons, are only rarely used--so they need to be convenient to carry. Just like carrying a pistol versus a rifle. One the first is a weapon of self defense, the second of war. But if you know you are going to get into a fight... By the way, since you mentioned shields making the difference against pole arms: I would love to see you guys do a video of sparing sword and rotella vs a polearm! I just watched your "Sparring with nowhere to run!" video and it seems like the only weapon combo that managed to win cleanly once against the Two-Handed Sword was the sword and shield because he managed to use the shield to close. It would be interesting to see more videos of how a sword and shield and large weapons like pole weapons and big two-handers interact.
Yes, in fact there is a section on it in the main rapier manual I teach from, Capo Ferro, see one of the plates below. The round shield made quite a come back in the renaissance. Almost always steel and double strapped. It was popular with light infantry on the battlefield, paired with a rapier (usually a shorter and broader blade than here), or sidesword. In civilian life it was popular for militia, town guards, and personal body guards, who would pair it with a variety of rapier type swords. 3.bp.blogspot.com/-1Jc08zojBCc/VsYuJJ3xrgI/AAAAAAAAHj8/_DTL17TM4xU/s1600/cappo_ferro_rotella.jpg
I'd be really interested in getting in to HEMA, but my career is based around shift work and there would be many weeks I couldn't come, would it not be worth it?
Ideally you want to get at least one session of training in a week for any martial art/sport that you want to learn. But work and other commitments mean we have plenty of students that fit your description and can only do once a fortnight, sometimes even less, or staggered training. All I would say to that is any training is better than none. There are also things you can do to practice at home in your own time. Just do what you can. HEMA is not all about becoming the greatest swordsman, for most its getting as much fun out of it when and how they can.
The umbrella term is HEMA, Historical European Martial Arts, but there are a great many styles contained within that name. It also goes by Historical Fencing or Western Martial Arts.
No, just that we have the Leon Paul contour fit which is far better than the traditional tongue type mask, and with SPES back of the head protectors added, you can pivot it up and down on the head.
Aww, you fixed it too fast... Anyway, can you tell us how it felt using the rotella? It's a full metal (steel) shield from what I know - is it heavy, or tiring to use? I suspect it shouldn't be heavier than a wooden shield, because while steel is heavier than wood, a steel shield should be much thinner than a wood shield.
G. K. Of course it won’t be all that good. A buckler can potentially do as well against greatswords as any other shield, but it depends on YOUR ability to use it. Effectiveness is determined by the user, I always say.
I agree but to me it looks like an experience difference. I personally would prefer a shield to a buckler for the greater protective radius, though I do acknowledge the decrease in defensive mobility. This is all however my unprofessional opinion as I'v only trained in Aikido, Muay Thai, and self-taught Naginata
@@morbus5238 I am, also, not educated in this stuff: The buckler offers the most protection, the further you can stick it out, but that also tires you quicker and obstructs your vision. So, one can be flexible in how one punches - or intercepts - with the buckler. The rotella is poor at intercepting, which made for some awkward turns in this fight, but is much better at passively protecting your body. Every tool comes with a trade-off, but the buckler shouldn't really be judged by bigger shields: It is a well-conceived side-arm :) Peace
Why is arthur holding the buckler so close to his body? Seems like he his sacrificing one of the buckler's biggest advantages, i.e. to occupy space in the middle ground.
When you look at later sword and buckler sources you will see a great variety in position of the buckler, as linked below. One of the biggest reasons we have seen for this is the development of complex/compound hilts that allow the user to fight with a much more advanced sword arm. Additionally, in the case of fighting rapiers, by extending the buckler out you lose a lot of visibility against the fast thrusts and disengages. s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d3/72/5c/d3725c35b5187beb1ff9aa549c3a9ee6.jpg
Academy of Historical Fencing Thanks. Does holding the buckler that way help the buckler to achieve stronger binds against rapiers specifically? From what I understand one of the reasons bucklers got replaced by daggers was that they (bucklers) did poorly in binding against rapier points. I was thinking there might be something about holding the buckler close in that helped with that particular issue.
Bucklers do have some issues against rapier, predominately that visibility is reduced, and also that the tip slides right off. Though it is important to remember that many original bucklers has spikes, hooks, and raised floating steel rings all intended to catch blades, but we cannot safely train with them. Main thing to withdrawing is really just keeping visibility, and also because the large hand guard of the rapier means the buckler isn't needed to protect the lead hand/arm.
Not necessarily. Though leading with the shield (or buckler) was more the norm, when you get to something like rapier and rotella, as shown by Capo Ferro, the sword stays forward. This is because you still want to dominate their blade with the rapier, as well as use it for protection and reach.
I just came here to see if using a shield and rapier on my paladin made sense thematically XD
bruh same
I’m a buckler guy, but of course it does. A rapier is just a more elegant sword.
Slash Command Studios Fair enough but I don't know enough about them. so when choosing weapons for my paladin in DND I just wanted the one that does D8 damage but still be a finesse weapon so I can multiclass it into rogue, I know it's used with a buckler since that is literally what swashbuckling is
actually swashbuckler's use a saber and a buckler but still
Slash Command Studios I think a buckler is more what I would use for a spear or a trident but that’s just my opinion as you could use the spear(or trident) for far reaching attacks while holding the buckler close in case they got past your spear tip(s)
The face stab in the background around :50 was beautiful.
Thank you so much, thrusting with a curved blade can be difficult. I'm glad I managed to pull it off so gracefully! ;)
Oh wow didn't think the actual person would respond
Haha, I don't mind responding, Nick pointed it out and I had to see both the hit and the comment myself. Call me a narcissist if you want! :p
Just like Valeria did in the first Conan the Barbarian movie.
People at my m HEMA club always ask me why I go Rapier and buckler. I never have an exact answer other than “I don’t have a dagger”
2:56 Thank you for that. I've been having a really bad day / week and that was pretty funny
Excellent camera work and interesting weapon pairing scenarios as always. :)
lol in the background at 0:50
ed perez it was a rather good hit... Had to check I didn't do any damage ;)
I was talking about the guy that got hit in the head in the back lol
I was the one that hit him? I'm possibly confusing something here.
The people fighting in the background
@@Est292he was doing all that sword dancing. You gave him a proper kendo style throat thrust. 🤣
I think that I will never feel confortable without anything that is not a shield, I am definetly really bad at rapier and dagger, never tried with buckler though.
By the way, is that shield heavy? doesn't look too much.
3.3kg, so not too bad, you certainly notice it after a while though.
If you can fight well with a shield, you should be able to build up similar skills without it.
2:58 Semi-screamer alert.
that first vicious swing at the legs when artur is wearing shorts was messed up lmao
I have a question (not trolling genuinely want to know) I know with knives that quick small thrusts are the way, is it deflection that makes that not so with longer blades? If not why is this not a used practice?
Largely because the range the sword gives. Fighters stay at a large distance for protection, were they already at a distance that small quick thrusts can be made, they are too close. That isn't to say desperate close in fights didn't go that way, but every single European sword treatise/manual advises you to keep a distance where a step is required to strike, either by lunging or using passing footwork.
Thanks, interesting, learned a few things from that.
Entertaining video, thanks.
Would have been interesting if Artur had also tried to use the buckler held straight out, in the 'Bolognese style'
i just find it doesn't work against rapier. it obscures vision. I do fight with extended buckler on other occasions.
Thanks very much for the response.
I wondered the same
Would the concave bucklers have helped any? Seems they were practically designed to catch thrusts to prevent the slipping off problem.
Possibly. We just haven't got any as they're hard to get. It is on my list to get. There were of course all sorts of other devices to catch thrusts, spikes, hooks, raised rings etc. All of which are unsafe to use in sparring.
So the moral of the video is: shields are really good defensive weapons. If you know you are going to get into a fight with light or no armor and you have a sword, grab a shield. :-)
They are indeed, and they also make all the difference against pole arms. Of course the big dilemma is that they are rarely practical for use in civilian wear for self defence, which is where the buckler comes in to its own. The shield did see use with private bodyguards, militias etc though, as well as in war of course.
Yeah, it is not like the video games where you can sling a shield on your back in an instant (with the push of a button) and go about your day as if nothing is there! The buckler is definitely better as a civilian self-defense weapon which, like all civilian self-defense weapons, are only rarely used--so they need to be convenient to carry. Just like carrying a pistol versus a rifle. One the first is a weapon of self defense, the second of war. But if you know you are going to get into a fight...
By the way, since you mentioned shields making the difference against pole arms: I would love to see you guys do a video of sparing sword and rotella vs a polearm! I just watched your "Sparring with nowhere to run!" video and it seems like the only weapon combo that managed to win cleanly once against the Two-Handed Sword was the sword and shield because he managed to use the shield to close. It would be interesting to see more videos of how a sword and shield and large weapons like pole weapons and big two-handers interact.
was fencing with a rapier and shield ever done historically?
Yes, in fact there is a section on it in the main rapier manual I teach from, Capo Ferro, see one of the plates below. The round shield made quite a come back in the renaissance. Almost always steel and double strapped. It was popular with light infantry on the battlefield, paired with a rapier (usually a shorter and broader blade than here), or sidesword. In civilian life it was popular for militia, town guards, and personal body guards, who would pair it with a variety of rapier type swords.
3.bp.blogspot.com/-1Jc08zojBCc/VsYuJJ3xrgI/AAAAAAAAHj8/_DTL17TM4xU/s1600/cappo_ferro_rotella.jpg
cool, i want to start training hema, and rapier looks cool, trying to decide what weapons i want to practice
I know this video is fairly old but are there any english translations of manuals that cover the use of rapier and rotella/buckler?
Pallavicini. It comes in two books. Get both ebcause they're pretty good readsm
Dat floor. Wow.
Two people fighting with swords and the thing you noticed is the floor? Then again, it is a nice an shiny floor.
I'd be really interested in getting in to HEMA, but my career is based around shift work and there would be many weeks I couldn't come, would it not be worth it?
Ideally you want to get at least one session of training in a week for any martial art/sport that you want to learn. But work and other commitments mean we have plenty of students that fit your description and can only do once a fortnight, sometimes even less, or staggered training.
All I would say to that is any training is better than none. There are also things you can do to practice at home in your own time. Just do what you can. HEMA is not all about becoming the greatest swordsman, for most its getting as much fun out of it when and how they can.
Does this type of sport have a particular name? For instance Kendo is the art of the Japanese sword fighting.
The umbrella term is HEMA, Historical European Martial Arts, but there are a great many styles contained within that name. It also goes by Historical Fencing or Western Martial Arts.
KenJUTSU
Not Kendo
I wanna see rapier and kite shield
Did i see right, you have pivoting fencing masks? If so I NEED one in my life!
No, just that we have the Leon Paul contour fit which is far better than the traditional tongue type mask, and with SPES back of the head protectors added, you can pivot it up and down on the head.
I like the title...
;-D
Lol, that is what happens when you try and post a video after a sparring day and the club party that followed it. Not quite awake yet!
Aww, you fixed it too fast...
Anyway, can you tell us how it felt using the rotella?
It's a full metal (steel) shield from what I know - is it heavy, or tiring to use?
I suspect it shouldn't be heavier than a wooden shield, because while steel is heavier than wood, a steel shield should be much thinner than a wood shield.
What was the title...?
Braden Vande Plasse
The first "Rapier" lacked the "i", so it was "Raper & shield vs Rapier & Buckler".
lol
But how does either fare against a greatsword?
G. K. Of course it won’t be all that good. A buckler can potentially do as well against greatswords as any other shield, but it depends on YOUR ability to use it. Effectiveness is determined by the user, I always say.
If you're going to go against a 2h sword with a rapier it'll definitely be down to timing and proper body voiding.
Hi. Where did you buy the rotella from? Or is it a DIY?
www.outfit4events.com/eur/product/620-iron-round-shield/
Thanks!
The Buckler obviously had the upper hand
I agree but to me it looks like an experience difference. I personally would prefer a shield to a buckler for the greater protective radius, though I do acknowledge the decrease in defensive mobility. This is all however my unprofessional opinion as I'v only trained in Aikido, Muay Thai, and self-taught Naginata
random jock: NERDS
Like a bloody bastard game
I've heard that you should hold the buckler out further and not keep it close to your body
But I don't know much at all
I'm not educated in this stuff too much, but it only makes sense to keep your sheild close so your opponent can't just stab up, under your sheild.
@@morbus5238 I am, also, not educated in this stuff: The buckler offers the most protection, the further you can stick it out, but that also tires you quicker and obstructs your vision. So, one can be flexible in how one punches - or intercepts - with the buckler. The rotella is poor at intercepting, which made for some awkward turns in this fight, but is much better at passively protecting your body. Every tool comes with a trade-off, but the buckler shouldn't really be judged by bigger shields: It is a well-conceived side-arm :) Peace
Why is arthur holding the buckler so close to his body? Seems like he his sacrificing one of the buckler's biggest advantages, i.e. to occupy space in the middle ground.
When you look at later sword and buckler sources you will see a great variety in position of the buckler, as linked below. One of the biggest reasons we have seen for this is the development of complex/compound hilts that allow the user to fight with a much more advanced sword arm.
Additionally, in the case of fighting rapiers, by extending the buckler out you lose a lot of visibility against the fast thrusts and disengages.
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d3/72/5c/d3725c35b5187beb1ff9aa549c3a9ee6.jpg
Arthur is holding the buckler so close to his chest because the lady of the lake told him to.
Academy of Historical Fencing Thanks. Does holding the buckler that way help the buckler to achieve stronger binds against rapiers specifically? From what I understand one of the reasons bucklers got replaced by daggers was that they (bucklers) did poorly in binding against rapier points. I was thinking there might be something about holding the buckler close in that helped with that particular issue.
Bucklers do have some issues against rapier, predominately that visibility is reduced, and also that the tip slides right off. Though it is important to remember that many original bucklers has spikes, hooks, and raised floating steel rings all intended to catch blades, but we cannot safely train with them.
Main thing to withdrawing is really just keeping visibility, and also because the large hand guard of the rapier means the buckler isn't needed to protect the lead hand/arm.
Shouldn't the shield be in front?
Not necessarily. Though leading with the shield (or buckler) was more the norm, when you get to something like rapier and rotella, as shown by Capo Ferro, the sword stays forward. This is because you still want to dominate their blade with the rapier, as well as use it for protection and reach.
Too much cutting for my liking in a rapier match