Kobudo Master Reacts to Metatron's "HEMA VS KENJUTSU"
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2023
- Asking Seki Sensei about his opinions on HEMA is absolutely one of the comments we’ve received the most. So today, Seki sensei, the 22nd headmaster of Kobudo Asayama Ichiden Ryu with 400 years of history, will react to Metatron’s video “HEMA VS KENJUTSU.” He will talk about the similarities and differences between HEMA and Kenjutsu and the surprising reason why he really liked watching this video.
However, before we start, please understand that we don’t have any experience in HEMA, and we have no intention of denying anyone’s skills. If we seem to have any misunderstandings about HEMA, please let us know in the comments. By the way, tickets for the 3-day training camp in Japan held by Seki Sensei and Let's ask Shogo are now on sale! Check out our Patreon page for more information! So then, let’s get started!
*The content of our videos is based on the teachings of Asayama Ichiden Ryu and personal studies/experience | There is no intention of denying other Ryuha styles, theories, and cultural aspects
▼Join the Online Kobudo Training with Seki Sensei▼
patreon.com/lets_ask_sekisens...
Interested in taking lessons directly from the 22nd headmaster of Kobudo Asayama Ichiden Ryu, Seki sensei? Sign up to learn authentic samurai skills with 400 years of history, with perfect English interpretation from Let’s ask Shogo. Every lesson will be recorded and will be available to rewatch anytime. No previous martial arts experience is required, and you can catch up anytime. On the other hand, even if you already belong to a different dojo or Ryuha, as long as you’ve clarified it with your Sensei, you are free to join. (Learn more about the online lessons: • Thank You for Waiting.... | This is an example of our lessons: • Example of our Asayama... )
▼Interested in learning Japanese ONLINE from Shogo?▼
/ lets_ask_shogo
The best online lessons for anyone interested in learning Japanese, but don’t know where to start. We will be using the studying material "いろどり Irodori (starter level)," which you can download for free. It's specially designed to teach practical Japanese to people who want to travel, study, or live in Japan (You will also have full access to the archive videos of the lessons in case you can't make the lessons live).
▼Please support this channel through Ko-fi (a donation platform like Patreon)▼
ko-fi.com/letsaskshogo
The management (filming, editing, etc.) of this new Asayama Ichiden Ryu's English Channel "Let's ask Seki Sensei" is completely Shogo’s voluntary work. If he is not able to pay for the expensive bullet train fare from Kyoto to Ibaraki Prefecture (where the main Dojo is located), and hotel/filming expenses, this activity will cease. Please help us spread and preserve this 400-year-old martial art. In return, we will try our best to create the most educational and exciting content about Japanese Kobudo.
▼The BEST online katana shop for martial arts (Katana, Dōgi Training Gear, etc.): Tozando▼
tozandoshop.com/letsaskshogo
Everything that Shogo uses for their katana training is bought at this shop… Shogo still uses the first training katana he bought in 2016 and is still in good shape!
▼Welcome to the Membership▼
/ @letsasksekisensei
Your support will help us to do more activities in the future, and to achieve the ultimate goal of reviving the golden age of Asayama Ichiden Ryu when we had 7,000 students nationwide.
-Priority reply to comments (video requests are welcomed)
-Monthly membership limited video
▼Check out our merchandise▼
my-store-db9e71.creator-sprin...
Get our shirts, hoodies, towels, etc. with the Asayama Ichiden Ryu Crest
The Asayama Ichiden Ryu's crest is the family crest of the 19th headmaster, Takeishi Sensei. The design represents two arrows which are believed to ward off evil.
▼What is Asayama Ichiden Ryu? / Who is Seki sensei?▼
• What is Kobudo Asayama...
▼Seki sensei's Ultimate Dream▼
"To revive the golden age of Asayama Ichiden Ryu with 7,000 students nationwide"
Asayama Ichiden Ryu was once the number one Ryuha in Japan during the Edo period (1603~1868), with more than 7,000 students throughout the country. Seki Sensei hopes to restore as much of the glory of this era as possible while he himself is the 22nd headmaster. Please help and support us in this endeavor.
▼Instagram▼
/ lets_ask_shogo
*Please ask us questions through the DM here | We will not reply to emails
♪Music♪
elements.envato.com/audio
otowabi.com/category/material...
♪Sound effects♪
soundeffect-lab.info/
#katana #iaido #kenjutsu #kobudo #asayamaichidenryu 
Спорт
▼Join the Online Kobudo Training with Seki Sensei▼
patreon.com/lets_ask_sekisensei?Link&
Interested in taking lessons directly from the 22nd headmaster of Kobudo Asayama Ichiden Ryu, Seki sensei? Sign up to learn authentic samurai skills with 400 years of history, with perfect English interpretation from Let’s ask Shogo. Every lesson will be recorded and will be available to rewatch anytime. No previous martial arts experience is required, and you can catch up anytime. On the other hand, even if you already belong to a different dojo or Ryuha, as long as you’ve clarified it with your Sensei, you are free to join. (Learn more about the online lessons: ruclips.net/video/ZBXqjXbbknM/видео.html | This is an example of our lessons: ruclips.net/video/E8_0vDlV-8E/видео.html)
▼Interested in learning Japanese ONLINE from Shogo?▼
patreon.com/lets_ask_shogo
The best online lessons for anyone interested in learning Japanese, but don’t know where to start. We will be using the studying material "いろどり Irodori (starter level)," which you can download for free. It's specially designed to teach practical Japanese to people who want to travel, study, or live in Japan (You will also have full access to the archive videos of the lessons in case you can't make the lessons live).
▼Please support this channel through Ko-fi (a donation platform like Patreon)▼
ko-fi.com/letsaskshogo
The management (filming, editing, etc.) of this new Asayama Ichiden Ryu's English Channel "Let's ask Seki Sensei" is completely Shogo’s voluntary work. If he is not able to pay for the expensive bullet train fare from Kyoto to Ibaraki Prefecture (where the main Dojo is located), and hotel/filming expenses, this activity will cease. Please help us spread and preserve this 400-year-old martial art. In return, we will try our best to create the most educational and exciting content about Japanese Kobudo.
▼The BEST online katana shop for martial arts (Katana, Dōgi Training Gear, etc.): Tozando▼
tozandoshop.com/letsaskshogo
Everything that Shogo uses for their katana training is bought at this shop… Shogo still uses the first training katana he bought in 2016 and is still in good shape!
▼Welcome to the Membership▼
ruclips.net/channel/UCH2QObLwiO1LnghsJRmVPEwjoin
Your support will help us to do more activities in the future, and to achieve the ultimate goal of reviving the golden age of Asayama Ichiden Ryu when we had 7,000 students nationwide.
-Priority reply to comments (video requests are welcomed)
-Monthly membership limited video
▼Check out our merchandise▼
my-store-db9e71.creator-spring.com/
Get our shirts, hoodies, towels, etc. with the Asayama Ichiden Ryu Crest
The Asayama Ichiden Ryu's crest is the family crest of the 19th headmaster, Takeishi Sensei. The design represents two arrows which are believed to ward off evil.
▼What is Asayama Ichiden Ryu? / Who is Seki sensei?▼
ruclips.net/video/2aBKmWmJpJw/видео.html
▼Seki sensei's Ultimate Dream▼
"To revive the golden age of Asayama Ichiden Ryu with 7,000 students nationwide"
Asayama Ichiden Ryu was once the number one Ryuha in Japan during the Edo period (1603~1868), with more than 7,000 students throughout the country. Seki Sensei hopes to restore as much of the glory of this era as possible while he himself is the 22nd headmaster. Please help and support us in this endeavor.
▼Instagram▼
instagram.com/lets_ask_shogo/
*Please ask us questions through the DM here | We will not reply to emails
you will be surprised that even though longswords are longer... a lot of katana weigh the same or are heavier than longswords. the katana's thick spine and heavy build is major advantage! especially since it's shorter length, and two handed grip makes it move just as fast, and can be drawn from the sheath faster than longswords.
@@idleeidolon No, katana are definitely lighter than longswords on average, and by quite a lot (average katana 1.2 kilo average longsword 1.7 kilos). They're just balanced differently.
I suggest reacting to "the weapons of hema" by Martin Fabian, it gives a good introduction to the variety in hema.
There is a great video called weapons of HEMA that shows off 2 very skilled fighters
I dont think that longsword is being spinned has much to do with its weight. Its more like, its double bladed and both edges can cut.
Truth be told, when i look at this fight i dont see many thrusts and longsword is pretty good at it. You can see alot of thursts in hema competitions and when it comes to thrusts, katana may fall behind as its really not designed to do that, i mean, it can but, not as good as longsword.
On a sidenote, this practice sword he uses in that particular fight looks more like a claymore than a longsword. Longsword is not as wide and bulky as this one, not sure how its balanced at all!
Metatron is actually fluent in Japanese so he could maybe answer any questions Seki sensei has about HEMA directly.
THAT WOULD BE INSANE!!!
Make this happend!
A collaboration series between Metatron and Seki Sensei would be amazing. And the two could have fun sparing with each other too.
I didn't know but that somehow makes complete sense "yeah, of course he would be fluent in Japanese"
MAKE IT HAPPEN! It will be the biggest crossover since Infinity War. 😂
Very interesting video - I'm sure this will get some HEMA people talking. It would be good to explore this further with mine or another HEMA channel like London Longsword or Academy of Historical Fencing. FYI, a lot of people in HEMA have actually studied Japanese martial arts, and we fairly regularly cross-train with people from kenjutsu, kendo, iaido etc. Much respect to everything you are doing - I'm enjoying it a lot. Best wishes from the UK, Matt.
Glad to see you here, Captain Context. :)
Great to see you're a fan of this channel Matt.
if your school and his school collab, it will be a dream come true
"FYI, a lot of people in HEMA have actually studied Japanese martial arts, and we fairly regularly cross-train with people from kenjutsu, kendo, iaido etc."
Interesting, because here in (northern) Italy things are quite the opposite. None of the people involved in Kendo/Kobudo that I know are also involved in HEMA and none of the HEMA guys I know practice or cross-train in Kendo or Koryu fencing shcools.
@@scassoniostrarompi1691 there are a few HEMA instructors in the UK who've also been long term practitioners of kenjutsu, battodo, bujinkan, jujitsu, aikido etc. I run the biggest UK HEMA event and we usually have at least two Japanese swordsmanship instructors attending, as well as FMA, Chinese, Indian and other swordsmanship systems.
It’s funny how so many people debate this martial art vs that martial art, but when the true masters observe other disciplines they see a kindred spirit and generally express nothing but admiration and respect.
It is more complex topic and people are talking in absolutes. Are they talking about 1v1 sparring which martial arts is better? Or massive battles where keeping formation is actually more important. Lindybeige actually said in actual fight with multiple people a master swordsman is less useful than person who actually have good battle awareness and knows where and when to strike
@@realdragon yes, different tools for different jobs. This applies to martial arts because each one was developed for specific purposes within the corresponding cultural and historical context. Some have a wider variety of applications than others but they are all perfectly suited to their environments.
That's because a real warrior respects their opponent.
This is also how you spot the difference between people touristing the topic because of popular media and those that are actually practicing the topic because of personal interest.
because the masters realize two things all martial arts are just branches of the same tree that share roots and secondly that its not the style or art its the artist and their path to SELF MASTERY
HEMA practitioner here with about 2 years of experience. leg attacks absolutely exist with the longsword, but they're not always very common because they can be risky if you don't set them up right, and I have only recently started trying to work them into my sparring. You need to threaten an attack somewhere else and go for the legs when they parry, but if you misjudge it, or if they counter your initial attack with an attack of their own instead of parrying you leave own head wide open
One of Marozzo's flourishes (passing the right leg backwards and leaving the left leg forwards, while cutting low from right to left, ending with the sword covering that left leg forward) managed to get me quite a few cheeky leg cuts, engaging the opponent first and then disengaging with the flourish as soon as they tried to press on.
They were pretty amateurish fights and I didn't get to practice HEMA a lot yet, but that one technique alone provided me so much fun, and seemed to quite reliably and safely (since it was already easy to disengage backwards, cover upwards and exploited the opponent commiting to move and shifting their balance) hit people's legs the first few times they faced it.
Leg attacks are less typical in longsword than in side sword and saber.
I think part of it is the emphasis on passing footwork in older longsword traditions makes leg cuts a lot more difficult to line up in practice compared to later traditions where one leg is consistently at a similar distance and similar position. Having only outside perspective on Japanese swordsmanship it looks like they mainly prefer a right leg advanced position, with the reverse only in specific situations, compared to the constantly shifting in Fiore and Meyer.
Plus I personally wouldn't use too many leg attacks against a guy with movements like the kenjutsu person in this video. In my experience they are the easiest to execute when the opponent shifts weight onto the front foot more in order to for example fleche. It is much harder to just void the cut and go for the head then. And the kenjutsu guy had all tge time weight either balanced ot on his back foot
My understanding is that HEMA also has unarmed and disarmed hand-to-hand techniques.
In German longsword traditions, there’s a “Master Strike” known as the Scheitelhau (which is more of a principle than anything) that explains why it’s not wise to attack the legs. Basically, due to the laws of geometry, attacking someone’s legs would put you well within range for the opponent to strike at your head, and it tends to be very difficult to defend yourself in a high position while you attack low.
Yeah, worth pointing out the relative symmetry of this matchup. A fun part of HEMA is getting to see how some farmhand's weaponised kitchen sink fares against the loopiest polearm on earth. If you want to see leg strikes, put the longsword up against a one-hander with a shield, and watch him turn into a lumberjack.
*Any how I started chopping*
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
- Acts 3:19
If are in North America, please go check out any of the churches available to you: PCA, OPC, Rpcna/Rpc, Urcna, or a canrc church
(These are conservative and actual Presbyterian churches)
If you can’t find one of the conservative presby churches then, maybe a Lcms or Wels Lutheran church.
If you are Scottish, I recommend the Free Church of Scotland and the APC
(Different from the Church of Scotland)
If you are English I recommend the Free Church of England.
(Different from the Church of England)
Online you can look up church finders for each of the groups and it will show you locations
:)
@@Radxix🐪
though there are medieval European places that did go for the legs and you can see that in some art as well, but i would say they don't attack them as much as the Japanese
It should be noted that Metatron himself was active in HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) at the time, and was recently taking kenjutsu lessons (I don't recall which ryūha). He received a lot of grief from his kenjutsu dojo mates and his sensei for this video and eventually quit the practice. He has a semi-recent video talking about videos he's taken down, and others he nearly took down (this was one of those).
I was unaware of this. That video was highly informative and interesting when it came out, and what Metatron does on his spare time shouldn't be none of their business.
that is most unfortunate. Agreeing or not with the idea of public dissimilar sparring by people of their skill level, i don't think griefing him is the correct course of action
Without a doubt Metatron has some solid historical information in his content. Unfortunately he also has some..."cringy" elements. He sometimes comes off more like a cosplay character than a reenactor. Even in this video, his footwork is not natural, it seems more contrived in the sense that it seems he is taking the "role" of the "kenjutsu guy" therefore I have to walk like what I've seen in movies.
@@calebacrutto9601 or just simply he was being thought that way by the kenjutsu instructor? I mean, some martial art have contrived movements and not exactly 100% of them are proven practical, we found it the hard way when people start fighting each other with their respective styles and it turns out to be some are not actually practical you can even argue it's inherently cringy if we only see them in the practicality perspective.
@@kuraiaku2997 It's possible. My comment has to do more about Metatron's persona. If you've seen his content you'll see that he is theatrical in nature. I wouldn't "bash" someone for their skill level, he is less "prepared" than the Hema practitioner. Is that a source of the cringe, possibly, however having watched his videos I suspect his propensity for theatrics is the culprit. Much in the same way he DISPLAYED multiple kamae but didn't use them. In the end, a student will use what he thinks will work for him regardless of what he was taught. Most of the time, taijutsu-ka will take a stance somewhere in the Thai boxing/ western boxing stance because it is a natural stance even if that was not taught. I do get what you are saying, Should a Wushu practitioner start sparring with a boxer in full Wushu mode...cringe.
Funny enough, Long swords (on average) tend to be similar in weight to a Katana. Metatron was a Katori-Shinto-Ryu practitioner and also Kendo. The Kaiken technique you refer to is very common in Hema and is easier with a Longsword due to various reasons. There are many leg attacks in HEMA, but they tend to be a bit risky and there for are uncommon.
suprising to me, every medieval sword i've held was pretty weighted. European style sword play was known to use the weight of the blade more and focus less on the martial arts of it, though not to say they weren't. Looked it up though and you're 100% right according to google. around 2.5 lbs each
What sect of Katori did he practice?
@@ZeusEBoySo martial arts don't include using the weight of the blade? Do they use light sabers instead?
@@ZeusEBoy katana tend to have the weight further towards the top when european swords, especially longswords, tend to have it at the hilt. Generally, the longer the sword the heavier it is, however, "using the weight" isn't true and the spinning is what helps generate speed.
@@ZeusEBoy the part where you said "less focus on the martial arts of it and more of the weight of the blade" is mainly because how armor and equipment was developed in europe compared to japan. theres a huge difference between two fully armored samurai fighting than two fully armored knights, or two unarmored samurai vs two unarmored european swordsmen(even if you were "unarmored" in europe most people would have a gambison which is very thick padded clothing that is effective against cuts, slashes and sometimes thrusts unlike the kimono which is just a piece of cloth) if you put up a very experienced samurai in full armor vs a knight in their full plate armor the samurai stands no chance simply because of the advantage of armor. with further development the european medieval meta turned into either killing the other guy by just bludgeoning them or trying to catch the gaps in armor like armpits knees etc. and mainly the reason why you mostly see double edge straight swords since its better for thrusting, you would see a lot of half-swording(grabbing your sword with the palm and thrusting) and a lot of pommel strikes, even just hugging the other person and just punching and elbowing them until they go down. the katana is good in their respective field since curved swords are way more forgiving with edge alignment, making it easier to cut and slash which is better against unarmored opponents or not fully covered opponents and attacking on horseback, which is also the reason why sabers were so popular all around the world going into 17th-18th century with the rise of firearms and lined up battles.
Reacting to "Akademia Szermierzy - Fior di Battaglia (medieval longsword techniques)" would be a treat, since it is a pretty dramatic dramatization of actual manual techniques of an Italian master.
On the other hand, there is possibly a good video on the German style, focused more on binds and winds, that might be more different and interesting since the focus changes a lot.
something with fighting in armor/halfswording/sword wrestling may be of particular interest to a kobudo guy
The Akademia Szermierzy series is excellent for showing the technique solo, then in practice. There's also a bit more variance to the different cuts and thrusts than are shown here - which makes sense as this is unstructured sparring.
Wow, that's an amazing video!
Yeah. And the guys are simply better fencers than me (the HEMA guy shown here with raf) imo :D
Still glad i seem to have represented the lichtenauer tradition well. :)
Yess!
Long swords should be around 1-1.5 kg, they look heavy, but because of the cross section and taper, the blade is thinner than you would expect, if they weigh much more than that, you are entering the great sword weight bracket.
Very strongly must be stressed. Most training swords are actually much heavier than the 'real' thing. Even nylon or wooden wasters are quite heavy, and steel practice blades would lack the same sharpening taper towards tip and edge, futher adding material. Fedders replicate the true weight by being very narrow, but this still changes the property of the blade's inertia some.
@@vp21ct My blunt is a better representation of a long sword than my Feder. Both in taper and weight distribution....
Katanas are just heavy for their overall dimensions. Which has to do with the process of making the blade, which comes from the need to compensate for the very poor quality iron historical Japanese smiths had to deal with. A Katanas spine (in comparison to a European sword) is very thick, because it needed to be. It's also very soft material, making it heavier than the edge material (low carbon steel/iron has a lower weight density than high carbon steel).
So it's natural a Kenjutsu practioner with only experience in wielding Katanas sees the taller longs sword and assumes, it's heavier.
Same, my blunt is about 1.35kg, if it was sharpend it might be 1.3k maybe 1.25 kg @@leichtmeister
Man now for the next grand step. Having a Hema master and Seki Sensei talk sword shop. I would watch that as a fly on the wall for hours. I don’t practice swordsmanship in any capacity but I am fascinated by the similarities and deviations between these two martial arts. From an untrained point of view it seems that both styles evolved to exploit the unique characteristics of the weapons used.
What is a hema master? I am ignorant about the state of European martial arts, but what's quite interesting about Asian martial arts is that while a lot of them are now shadows of their former selves, the traditional martial arts have been upkept and refined in actual fights until relatively recent memory. Eg stories of Kimura and Wong Shun Leung both point to the days of hardcore conditioning and underground fighting which kept the applicability of those arts alive. Muay Thai and Lethwei are even more alive
My point is that floating around there is still some memory of how these arts were meant to be used but hema has had a break in that lineage and now we're relying on enthusiastic individuals in a tiny niche trying to reverse engineer it...
If you've ever seen how those muay thai masters school pro fighters my take away was that for striking arts they don't really come alive until you've mastered everything else like spacing and timing. Like if you watch a muay thai master clinch in MMA (eg dejdamrong or stamp) you can see how effective it is. but it's seen a lot less in UFC partly because knee and clinch proficiency is nowhere near the same.
Really what UFC kind of demonstrates is that brawlers often have the edge on all but the best of technicians...
@@yomly I would say a conversation between Seki Sensei and Schologladatoria would be eye opening. Matt has only been involved in HEMA (as far as I can tell) for less than 30 years, but he has that practical understanding as well as historical knowledge. Besides HEMA, he is a former archeologist and has various other involvement in HEMA adjacent activities. I don't know what a HEMA master would be, but I think Matt's understanding of sword fighting and HEMA would give him a good basis for an enlightening conversation with Seki Sensei. Language barriers might complicate that of course...
@@DerrillGuilbert yes it will no doubt be interesting. In particular discovering where things are similar and where things differ. My mind thinks of how many martial arts either never used or forgot about low kicks only to be rudely awakened by Muay Thai when doing inter style fighting.
My only sadness about sword fighting is that we may truly never know, and most discussion and even demonstrations will just be conjecture. If you follow professional fighting like Muay Thai or Boxing you'll see how much practice it takes to implement theory. You need a lifetime of dedication, training and also sparring partners to bring a style to life.
I'm reminded of how the estimated draw weight of an English long now was drastically revised after discovering the Mary Rose cache of bows. Which really was a reflection on how different the world we live in today vs one where war and fighting and therefore training were part of everyday life for most people.
Hello there.
HEMA teacher here.
HEMA is a umbrella term, similar in use to Budo.
The HEMA fencer here is fencing in the system described by Master Fiore de Liberi in his work "the flower of battle."
It is one of the oldest fencing manuals.
Fiore lived in the later half of the 14th century.
Metatron is as far as I know a former student of Katori Shintō-ryū.
There are leg attacks in Longsword in general.
Though many sources warn, that a attack towards the legs leaves the head open to a counter attack.
There are however systems in HEMA, that don't attack the legs usually.
Indeed it is one of the oldest ones I think only the German school has older manuscripts than the Italian with one French exception that being Le jeu de la hache but that is for Poleaxe and not sword.
@@vx8431 the oldest currently known "Fechtbuch" is the MS I:33. Written somewhere in the time between 1330-1350.
The oldest source of the Lichtenauer tradition, the MS 3227a, it was written somewhere between 1389-1532.
Though a dating towards the earlier date seems fairly likely.
I'm no expert on the sources though.
I teach sword and buckler based on the I:33 and focus my attention almost exclusively on that.
@@AlexPanther Yes Walpurgis. It is dated to early 1300s around 1310s in some estimates.
@@vx8431 the current consensus among experts is roughly 1330-1350 for the I:33.
Based on art style and linguistic analysis.
Earlier estimates don't really have that much foundation to argue from.
Hi dude; one quick question.
We see in the video that the HEMA fencer strikes twice at the end of the video, once on the wrist then on the elbow/side of his partner.
I do understand it's practice/sparring and not a real fight and thus speed/strength are being restrained; however I was wondering how much such blows could actually be impactful with a long sword. I was under the impression he hit mostly with the tip/weak end of the blade; so it might cut maybe a bit, but I don't know if he would have enough impact to kill/maim.
I ask because, if those hits aren't enough, it seems like he is, on the other hand, very wide open if his opponent decides to press forward in a counter move.
Just casual fencer myself with no experience in HEMA or longswords so I may underestimate the impact and weight of such a blade in the ribs :p
I love how gracious and appreciative of the skill of the HEMA user sensei is. RUclips has a lot of "katana vs longsword which is better??" Kind of videos and it's wonderful hearing a master noting how skilful both are with their techniques. I'd be extremely interested in hearing sensei react to more HEMA videos!
Agreed
Exactly. At the end of the day, katanas and longswords are similar enough weapons that ultimately, the deciding factor of who wins in fight between the 2 is which swordsman is better and not the swords themselves.
I was just thinking that I'd love to see his reaction to a HEMA spear match, or a sabre match, or any dissimilar matchup.
"Which is better?"
Whichever one you're more skilled at, frankly. But then, it's also good to _try_ new things. Practice something outside your usual wheelhouse. And most of all, I think, someone has to enjoy _learning._ It's clear that Seki Sensei enjoys seeing other weapons and styles put to use, and would probably chat all day and night with someone like Matt Easton about comparative similarities and differences.
Throw Tod into the mix and before you know it they're designing an all-new weapon, most likely.
Another thing is that katana's cause of the curve and the way Their point is i would say is specialized in cutting they can stab but they are better at cutting while many medieval European straight swords are more of an all rounder being able to cut well as stab well yh there are specialised versions for to improve one of the 2 it was more common for than to be able to do both pretty well so the weapons on that one already pretty different
Hema guy's footwork is off the hook! He's really good at setting and controlling the distance!
Thanks :)
Its a point i train with my students too.
Footwork ist good as well as distance, and unfortunatly he uses very limited HEMA technics. E.g. Kartana User stand "Im Pflug" and there are counter technics but Longsword user didn't use them.
yeah also he got at least 10 lethal attack... while the kenjutsu guy even not scracthed...
I'm so impressed by how respectfully you treat other arts. I would love to train in your dojo. As someone who trained as an aikidoka years ago I appreciate the smoothness and movements of sword and staff. As a former weapons trained law enforcement officer it also helped me to understand what could be done with a variety of weapons. Thank you.
I am very glad you liked our video! Please join our online lessons to learn from Seki Sensei! patreon.com/lets_ask_sekisensei?Link&
In our hema training, distance is crucial. To reach an opponents leg, you must cover a longer distance measured from your shoulder. Meanwhile, your head is not guarded and the opponent has a shorter distance to bridge in order to hit you. Leg attacks are therefore regarded as high risk, low gain, as a hit on head ir torso os also more deadly. Thus while leg attacks can situationally be useful, the are rarely chosen as a first-intent attack in HEMA.
and still the hema guy died at least 10 times...
I would love to see more HEMA reaction from Seki Sensei. It would be interesting to see how he sees the longsword more in depth. The obvious difference with the handguard but what would that really mean?
I would love to see his take on the emphasis of binding and winding in German traditions. The willingness to turn your sword in to a saw toothed ripper as a normal tactic seems to be a very different attitude, in according with cultural attitudes and relative economic cost of swords.
I'd also love to see his thoughts on more HEMA videos. Especially on the German traditions (as I believe the HEMA guy in the video is fighting with Fiore?). I'd really like to know his thoughts on a more aggressive German Longsword fencer throwing chained "Master Cuts"
I believe Bjorn Ruther has some interesting videos demonstrating techniques that I'd love to see Seki Sensei's reaction to as well!
@@Maverick-gg2do I on the other hand would love to see his take on Polish sabre techniques
I've studied HEMA longsword
I am studying Jikishinkage-ryū kenjutsu
And a big aside: 15 years of dancing (ballroom, salsa, bachata, West Coast swing, ballet, etc.)
In my "aside", the music, roles, and moves may be different, but the human body and principles of dancing are the same. I can use the cross-talk between dance disciplines to surprise professionals on the dance floor, or dance fusion styles with the best of them. Meanwhile, I am no professional; just a well-versed enthusiast.
I have introduced HEMA techniques in kenjutsu kata discussions; it added purpose to variations that seemed arbitrary at first.
I have used kenjutsu kata techniques in longsword duels with success; not because the technique or I was superior as a fencer, but because the opponent (as an instructor put it) knew that an attack was imminent, but had no idea what sort. A preemptive defense then gave me the advantage.
The multidisciplinary study in both dancing and swordfighting gives me versatility that few partners or opponents can match, or rather, reasonably expect.
Furthermore, this versatility with enough practice can remove projection, leaving the other person guessing. This ends up as either having more fun dancing, or gaining a moment of lead in a duel.
(And yes, I have used dance moves in sword flourishes and katas, and martial arts techniques in dancing.)
It goes back to the old wisdom. The human body can only move in a few ways- if you dedicate, you will find them.
Hi! Where are you from? In which line do you study Jikishin Kage-ryu? Best wishes!
@@DreamofEmese Hello
We are a Budapest branch, studying in the steps of Kimiyoshi Suzuki sensei.
“The sword is sharp; the soul is calm.”
That's why Bruce Lee was such a talented and successful martial artist. He won Cha-Cha-cha dance competitions because he was an excellent dancer and practiced European fencing with his brother Robert, and built on that movement skill to learn Wing Chun and boxing, and then combined several martial arts and combat sports and sports to create his own style, Jeet Kune Do. And to have a physical and psychological foundation, he studied the knowledge of old power artists and strongmen like Eugen Sandow and his contemporaries and also studied a lot of kinesiology - the doctrine of perception - to keep the reaction time as short as possible.
footwork is key, it's something I still struggle on with my aikido (which is derived from kenjutsu)
+1 Vote for a collaboration episode with @scholagladiatoria (or some other very experienced HEMA practitioner). Would love to see that kind of knowledge transfer with Seki Sensei. Even better, seeing Seki Sensei and a HEMA practitioner of equivalent experience level (or as close as possible) hold an in-person workshop with each exploring the opposite style's respective weapons (i.e., trading longsword for katana). I'm sure it could be an enriching experience! (Unless, of course, this would be considered inappropriate in some way.)
Have a few things to say about this video and hema.
It's really cool that Seki Sensei picked out that Metatron did Katori Shinto Ryu because he has some experience in that and in kendo. This is also an older video so both participants are fairly inexperienced.
There are leg attacks in hema they're just not very common because it's easy to defend against. Hands and head are the easiest targets to hit. If someone attacks your leg the simplist defense is to bring your front leg back and hit the head making use of superior reach.
I've found kenjutsu and kendo seem choppier and hema tends to flow more. With 2 edges and constantly switching guard positions to launch attacks from. Longsword also has a lot of attack and defend at the same time attacks. Kenjutsu seems more about controling the center where hema is more about angles
Blood and Iron Martial Arts and Roland Warzecha/ Dimicator are some interestic technique channels I would like to see Seki Sensei react to. Also Swordfish tournaments you can find high level hema competition videos for Sensei to see. Weaponism also has some cool crossover videos of hema vs kendo or hema vs kenjutsu
Also hema is reconstructionist so a lot of it is looking at old treatises and trying different interperetations of techniques so as a result hema beginners spar early but don't really focus on using techniques and kenjutsu is the opposite where they tend to know lots of techniques but never spar so they get a little flaily and flinchy until they get used to it. Kendo guys are really good but they also tend to get their hands hit a lot because they're not used to it being a target and the horizantal helicopter cuts of hema tend to throw them off at first.
To be fair, Hema fighters also get their hands hit a lot.
Also RIP Swordfish. I hope it comes back one day.
Basically, HEMA is classical "ryuha" in its curricula. The movement picked-up in the late 1990s.
The HEMA movement is attempting to re-create "koryu bujutsu" from the scrolls/manuals/codices that are still existing, trying to be faithful to the source material, and NOT modern sport fencing (i.e. - modern budo of kendo).
@@TA-hf6si
QUOTE: "Today practitioners focus mostly around the Renaissance era (14th - 17th)".
Hence my post, correct?
It is a recreation, sure, but probably not a "classical ryuha", despite it's desire to be faithful to source material, simply because it is a reconstruction of a dead tradition from books. There is no continuous line of experience, rather it is a first-generation practice. More established martial arts are built on a multi-generational pool of experience that is passed through direct experience. Some HEMAists have experience in other martial arts, some don't, but whatever they bring, the subtleties and nuances that the renaissance masters passed on to their students with these particular weapons is lost.
Western arts are continually throwing away what they feel is no longer useful, and almost the only unbroken thread from ancient historical fencers comes to us today in sport fencing.
No doubt, in a few generations of practice, HEMA will be something like a Ryuha, but right now, it's research.
@@Braindazzled tbh in many places it is second generation already and there are plenty of people who have never seen a treatise but know how to fight due to their instructors reading them in the past. The recreation of anliving traditoon
@@Braindazzled Do we have any evidence that with an unbroken line of tradition, that the subtleties and nuances of the renaissance masters weren't lost as well? Over the course of 100s of years, with changing context in all probability the subtleties and nuances that would be teached today would still be different ones from those back then. Also, one can argue that there is an unbroken line from medievial through renaissance to early modern fencing and from there to modern classical and even olympic fencing. Yes, the tools changed, but the princeples are the same, even though they might be applied differentily according to tool and context. The same is true for greco-roman wrestling, boxing, etc. pp. And honestly it's not so different in any other martial arts.
I know, that drawing out those line is not popular amongst many HEMA enthusiasts, because of the changes on the way, but the line is still there.
@@Braindazzleda continuous line of teaching also brings problems, as each successive generation modifies the art to suit the needs of the time.
There definitely are leg attacks in HEMA, but they're often spoken of as being 'too risky for most scenarios' because your opponent's legs are technically a more distant target than their head and body.
Both fighters tend to stay too far away to hit each other anyway, because they aren't really taught to conquer their fear of being hit, so they don't capitalize on their opponent's tendency to open themselves up with a defensive movement that ultimately does nothing because of distance.
If you watch more videos of armored sparring, you'll see almost exclusively in-fighting because they're not afraid to get hit in order to land a better hit than their opponent :3
"they aren't really taught to conquer their fear of being hit"
actually beginners tend to start off attacking without adequate cover -- double hits are common -- and we're _actively taught_ to avoid taking high-risk strikes
we're all wearing protective gear; we aren't _afraid_ of being hit, it is simply a different ethos of combat, one that prioritizes achieving results that, if unprotected, would permit walking away from the fight intact, rather than going for kills
@@coreyyanofsky Definitely better phrased than I could do :3 I tend to prefer full armor and a horse breaker sword, anyway
@@coreyyanofskyit's also worth mentioning that training is not combat and styles vary. Many styles would prioritise not getting hit especially in training to minimize your chance of getting hit in combat, but in a tense situation you will probably be more aggressive due to nerves.
Also, Fiore says that Audacity is the most important of his four virtues. The ability to put oneself somewhere and take that position, rather than Prudence which is still important but not as much. Prudence may rule training, but Audacity rules combat.
They have bare faces & bare hands. It's not surprising they're being cautious. Folks were also often more careful in historical fights with sharp weapons than in sparring, as Joseph Swetnam mentioned. Of course, sometimes anger made people disregard their own safety in earnest fights.
The legs are not a deeper target compared to the head. However, by striking the legs, you completely expose your head to a strike. And since in HEMA, hitting first doesn't necessarily stop the exchange, an afterblow can still be valid. That's why it's riskier. Against experienced fighters, even with feints and a lunge based system, it's still extremely difficult to get a clean leg hit.
while the Long Sword looks "heavy", it's actually feels lighter than Katana due to the balance point/ center of mass are typically more near the handle, this makes the Long Sword easier to Control/spin and "Faster" than a Katana if they're both on the same Weight, but it's still a trade-off where Katana could deal more "power" on the swing
on that Video, the Long Sword obviously got more advantages in the sparring because it's simply faster and actually "longer" than the Katana
Where is the balance point on the longsword? The definite length from the guard?
@@Tielkon without any "counter-weight", all swords are typically got Center of mass/balance point on the middle of the overall sword lenght,
the Counter-weight of European Swords are the "Pommel" on the end of the handle, while Katana's Counter-weight are the "Tsuba"/Handguard
Counter-weights are used to Shift the Balance point of the Swords, where the closer balance point to the handle = easier control, easier swing, faster, but typically deal less Power on the swing.
and the farther balance point from the handle = harder to control, harder to swing, slower, but got more Power due to "Leverage" effect
for example: Axe and Sledgehammer got Balance-point farther from the handle/hand pivot point, so it does more Leverage and Power on each swing but it does feel "heavier" to control/swing/spinning
it's just Leverage Physics
all Swords got Balance-point above the handguard and below the middle blade length, but the exact point is still depends on the Pommel or Tsuba weights
It varies. My personal feder (practice longsword) is a monster at 4lbs 3oz and 4' 6" long (I'm a pretty big dude) but since the PoB is only an inch away from the cross guard it handles beautifully.
My loaner is 4'4", and is only 3 lbs 3oz, but the handling isn't as dissimilar as you'd think as it's PoB is 3 inches away from the cross guard.
The extra weight and inertia of my personal helps with some techniques, and hinders with others. It's a matter of preference, tbh.
German longsword is fairly similar to Kenjutsu. Also Metatron needs to see this, maybe have an exchange collaboration about the similarities between HEMA and Kenjutsu at some point.
edit: if I remember correctly, Metatron used to do kendo while he was teaching in Japan for a while and have taken lessons and trained in Katori-Shinto-Ryu after that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that though.
It's so interesting to see Seki Sensei's thoughts on HEMA. Since kenjutsu has a strong unbroken lineage of masters, it is good to have insight on HEMA, which is mostly reconstructed from historical fighting manuals. It can help HEMA practitioners to decide whether their techniques make practical sense, and help point out where we may have misinterpreted the manuals. Thank you for making these videos!
Something to consider with HEMA is that it is almost entirely built off of books, treatises and artworks. European weapons evolved INCREDIBLY quickly and with each new development, new techniques would have to be devised and refined both to use that development and to counter it. These techniques were written down and sketches made but many of them have been lost to time or, like with peasant's techniques, not preserved at all. overtime the use of swords changed. you had forms like fencing foils, sabers, rapiers, etc. and the previous techniques weren't exactly practiced anymore. Because of this, HEMA practitioners have to basically rediscover the techniques that used to be used using these sources that were left behind and may have been damaged, mistranslated or simply not discovered yet.
Sword mechanics are body mechanics - East or Wes, there will be great similarities to be sure. Skilled practitioners will put up a spirited match. Making successful "cuts" or "thrusts" will depend on who can take advantage of the first 'suki' (opening) presented.
In addition to several Japanese styles of Iai & Kenjutsu, I also did Great Sword (Montante/Spadoni) for a few years, which are longer than the typical 'long sword,.' and.which is more like the Japanese No-dachi/Choken.
From the videos I've seen about this, it seems like a lot of what differences do exist are a result in the differences between the weapons.
Suki was one of my favourite characters from Avatar. Now I know why.
It's interesting you brought up montante (I apologize if I pluralized that wrong).
Would a Japanese swordsman just bring his EDC katana if he knew he was going to fight a montante? Even if he planned to fight a standard long sword, would he bring the same old katana, optimized to fight other equally proportioned katana in the relatively peaceful Edo period of Japan (and more often than that, to be worn as a symbol of rank)?
Might he bring something longer or more suited in some other way?
Hey Ray, you still alive after all these years!!!! -- Guy Power
@@ghp95134Yes, sir! I serve as a director at the Budokai since 2011. and have concentrated on teaching modern naginata as well as a koryu style! How are you doing?
Love the reaction. Would be great to see Metatron's reaction to this.
You might want to see some videos from Skallagrim, or even reach out to him. He often does similar reactions, but from a Hema point of view.
I love how Seki sensei was respectful towards HEMA as a whole and was not biased towards kenjutsu
I think it is indicative of both his experience in general and his mastery in particular
Both are Swordsmanship with different weapons.
I would definitely recommend Seki Sensei to watch the sabre matches between Lee Smith and Richard Marsden, the camera angles and fighting level is awesome!
The biggest weakness in the demonstration between the two fighters, is that in order to fully realize the HEMA fighting style, the opponent would need to wear a helmet for safety reasons as a great deal of the historical moves are stabs to the head (which is also one of the shortest distances between the opponents).
This incidentially is why leg attacks are rare in HEMA - it's the longest distance between the opponents and that gives it a smaller chance of success, at least in the opening phase of the strikes, and given that these two fought at a certain distance most of the time the reason for leg attacks was very limited.
The long sword techniques used in this vid were, according to my amateur knowledge, closer to Italian style or Fiore. The stances are very articulated, and the strikes are VERY authoritative, footwork tight. Very well presented fight overall. If somebody in the comments think I got this style wrong, let me know! :)
Scholagladiatoria has several videos about rapier vs katana that you might enjoy.
Hi guys, I've been practicing HEMA for 5 years now. There are leg attacks. Then again, HEMA is a broad term. It's like saying Asian Martial Arts. Most HEMA style did attack legs, but style such as destreza and most rapier styles rarely attacks the legs.
I imagine the longsword guy thought leg attacks would be unsporting to use, given the katana was considerably shorter
Seki Sensei meets The Metatron ?! ... The crossover we never knew we wanted !
I'm sure a video call could be set-up. Metatron is fluent in Japanese.
As an amateur HEMAist, this was wonderful insight to see from the point of a Kenjutsu practitioner!
I came to your class in Kyoto back in May, Shogo, and didn't mention at the time but I've been doing HEMA for nearly 7 years now, recently started coaching more too. Really appreciated seeing this video. There are only so many ways a person can swing a sword, so I tend to see a lot of similarities in kenjutsu and HEMA at higher skill levels. I'll definitely have a look at that 3 day course next year!
That’s amazing! Yes please join the training camp next year too!
Leg attacks exist in all manners in HEMA but tend to be more dangerous since the head is a closer target. Especially in armour, while it not being as heavy as most people think, will add weight to the upper body when leaning strongly forward. This also leads to the danger of being hit or wrestled. There are also all kinds of rising blows.
The longsword tends to be in the similar weight range like the Katana and the Tachi. However there are a lot of different types of longswords( oakshott types) that all have varying weight for varying purposes from 1 kg to 2 kg. Normally in Hema many tactics involved the binding of the sword which is however not as easy against shorter swords such as many katana.
I would recommend Björn Rüther youtube channel he has many good examples of Longsword techniques and other things and is avaiable in english.
Would really be interested in hearing about your opinions on hema techniques from Rüther and others. Especially because the differences are more clear there.
Id be afraid to fence Björn. Hes a monster phisically and techniquewise.
He is fencing Meyer, which is a very different school to whats shown here.
Since weve done the fight above ive incorporated a bit of the style in my fencing.
The form above is mostly lichtenauer lineage.
@@GermanSwordMaster
Meyer is Liechtenauer tradition, sure he doesnt teach thusts in longsword but he tells us with the rapier the same can be done with the other weapons. The rest is pretty similar such as the pieces in key or Ox with the exception that instead of shooting etc you go for the next cut.
I just suggested Björn because his videos are clean cut and and presented and the techniques shown show the basics of german longsword quite well. The problem is simply that against shorter katana etc you need a different approach making it harder to make out what the different nuances of hema and the japanese sword school are.
I'm loving this collaboration. I've done Euro centric historical fencing for about 12 years and am happy any time there is multi discipline discussions on topics. It only makes each the better for it. Great video. Much respect.
Academy of Historical Fencing here on RUclips has a lot of interesting HEMA videos of mixed weapons fighting, including longsword vs. katana and a couple even use the katana/wakizashi combo. They use metal sparring blades and safety equipment, so they can go a full speed. Might be worth checking out.
I've seen that video. Part of the problem Metatron had was that his blade is noticeably shorter. He's under threat before he's able to threaten his opponent.
Due to the fact that he didn't want to get hit he stood too far away and he wasn't able to maintain maai. Anytime he successfully beat his opponent he stayed inside his opponents range and pressured his opponent into giving him an opening.
You were very respectful. Of course there are leg attacks in HEMA, the guy didn't use them much that is true. Longsword and Katana are very similar, so their attacks and defenses will usually be similar. If you really want to see similar weapons used very differently look at the HEMA use of spears and compare that to Sōjutsu. I enjoy your videos very much, thank-you.
There are leg attacks in HEMA, but they're very risky so no one tries them
Most used leg attack is the geisel.
And the longsword and katana are not at all simular. Swiss saber or kriegmesser are more like the katana than the longsword.
But still a great vid 😉
Hello, Shogo-san and Seki-sensei.
I'm a practitioner of HEMA with some on-and-off experience of about three years. I'm sure some people have already made mention of these things, but I'd also like to weigh in as I'm quite glad that your channel has decided to interact with HEMA-related content more often.
With regard to weight, a training longsword in HEMA that is made of steel and has its construction and proportions made as close to its historical sharp equivalent as possible usually weighs within the ballpark of -about 2.38 kilos- about 1.07 kilograms or -about 5.2 pounds- about 2.38 pounds. I'm not sure how that would translate to the unit of weight measurement in Japan, but I'm sure you'll be able to accommodate in translating for context, Shogo-san.
To address the similarities of the circular movements of the longsword in HEMA and Kaiken in Kenjutsu, that may very well be due to the fact that a longsword historically has two cutting edges-hence the shape and profile of the blade. Therefore, the practitioner can launch an attack from any angle they please if they're skillfull enough with the techniques-while also not having to consider that the sword they're using only has one sharp edge.
Also, I understand that the construction of an uchigatana tends to be balanced more towards the blade in order to deliver a more effective cut. However, if this is wrong-please don't hesitate to correct me.
On the other hand, the construction of a longsword in HEMA tends to have a balance closer to the handle, because of the existence of both the cross-guard and the pommel (the latter being the longsword's 'tsuka-gashira'), which serves as counter-weights to the mass and length of the blade. With the weight centered closer to the hands, it can allow for more controlled and nimble movements as the fight requires.
There are techniques-which have also appeared in the video-that consider the facts of the two edges and specifically-balanced construction, hence why it looks as though the HEMA fighter is spinning his sword very often, as he is looking to strike with either 'edge' of his training sword.
Lastly, it looks like the weapons that both practitioners are using are foam sparring weapons, which is obviously understandable for safety. However, just as you might consider that an uchigatana has smaller proportions in comparison to the sparring implement the Kenjutsuka was using, the proportions of the longsword-at least with regard to the blade-is not nearly as thick as the one used by the HEMA fighter.
All that said, thank you very much for reviewing HEMA-related content. It's very nice to see how other martial arts schools view it as a whole and what overlaps/commonalities are there to be found.
EDIT: After reviewing this comment of mine, I actually see where everyone is getting tripped up. I wrote this nearing 03.00 in the morning my time after an afternoon of HEMA training, so brain function went out the window for a bit there.
Thus, I'd like to offer corrections: my longsword's weight is actually around 2.38 pounds, which will then translate to around 1.07 kilos. I often measure in pounds rather than kilos, so I suppose my 3AM brain wanted to both measure in pounds while accommodating people who measure in kilograms, hence the original number of 2.38 kilos.
My apologies, everyone. I've edited the original comment without omitting the errors, so that the comments below still make sense. Thank you all very much for your candor and civility.
Your comment about sword weight is curious to me (practicing HEMA for about 8 years) - I've never encountered a sword as heavy as you describe (outside of a Montante/greatsword - which would be heavier again). I own several training longswords, and the heaviest is about 1.8kilos. In my experience training weapons are generally heavier as well as they preserve the material that is otherwise ground off when sharpening. Most of the swords I own (and others that I've been privileged to handle) are more around the 1.5kg mark. From what I understand of average katana, that is on the higher-end of their typical weight.
@@crawlie yeah... I think 2.5kg is the weight of a typical zweihander, so there's no way the average longsword weighed that much. The hand-and-a-half sword is what we'd compare to a katana, because any zweihander is at least half a meter longer than any katana and the comparison is completely moot. The average hand-and-a-half sword is between 1-1.5kg, and the average katana is also around the same weight, with the vast majority between 1.1-1.2kg.
@@crawlie This is an unsurprising sentiment, actually. As I understood from the beginning, the training swords at our club-recommended by our HEMA coach and sourced from a local smithy-are somewhat on the heavier side as opposed to those currently on the market.
To note, we also have a Montante/Espadon analogue that weighs in at around 3.6 kilos/8 pounds. I've wielded it myself, and there is some heft to it. But, it wasn't so unreasonable in its balance and mass that I thought it was impossible to wield properly.
With a bit more fitness and specific training under my belt with regard to the proper form, techniques, and biomechanics, I'm confident that I would've been able to swing and control it more reasonably with practice over time, but Montante was not my focus at that point of my training. Given the chance, I'd probably like to take it up more properly again.
I suppose that's also a consideration to mention: our coach emphasized having a certain level of strength and fitness in order to better wield and control the weapon for technique drills and sparring. Yes-we also spar with those training swords, but we make an effort to ensure that we're wearing adequate protection given the heft and weight they have. The last thing we want is to be out of commission for long periods of time-due to recovering from unnecessary injuries-just because we weren't focused on safety.
I can't speak for my other classmates-some of which whom also own a training sword with the same weight as I mentioned-but I came to see its merits over time. If our training weapons are on the heavier end of the weight spectrum and we're able to wield them with proper form, control and speed, then it would logically translate to wielding a much lighter weapon with a similar-if not more improved-deftness
@@PapaDeusVult Having handled museum originals of longswords, that seems excessively heavy. I don't know your coach or his training methodology, but that more seems like he has a sweetheart deal with the local smith than anything else. Most longswords will be up in the territory of 3lbs with a bit of bell curve on both sides.
@@timothym9398 I appreciate the feedback, friend. But, I can assure you that if it actually was that excessively heavy, then I wouldn't have been training and sparring with it for the length of time I've been training my coach's style in HEMA.
Being the wielder of the sword, I like to think I would be the first to say it was impossible that a person would have been able to swing it-and yet I've managed to do so repeatedly.
I understand my word probably isn't much to go on, but I've been rather satisfied with my training longsword and its balance, so no need to bring the integrity of my HEMA coach and his smith contact into this.
Like I already said in reply to a similar sentiment:
If our training weapons are on the heavier end of the weight spectrum and we're able to wield them with proper form, control and speed, then it would logically translate to wielding a much lighter weapon with a similar-if not more improved-deftness
First, as a HEMA practitioner I loved to hear that Seki Sensei's first comment was, that longsword fencing is not so different from Japanese Kenjutsu. Sure, if we go into the nitty gritty details, we can make out differences, but overall, it's not so different in my opinion either. It's good to first point out that there are many similarities. Second, there are leg attacks in HEMA and many people also pointed out, that legs are considered less safe targets. I think adding to that there are also cultural reasons for the head being seen as the most prestigious target and also the fact that with modern fencing masks the head is also often one of thetargets to hit with the least risk of injury. So those factors figure in as well, why a HEMA practictioner would prefer strikes to the upper-body and especially the head. The techniques to strike at a leg are there, though, even if the sources I have read usually also prefer to go for higher up targets.
I would also love to see more videos of Seki Sensei reacting to HEMA videos, this was very instructive, thank you!
As a Katori Shintô Ryu practicioner, I agree that some of the kenjutsu guy movements and stances look like KSR, but they seem to be thrown a little bit randomly, without much use of instinct and flow (Which is very hard to do I admit). It seems that they are using very light swords and no armor at all. Therefore I find their movements a little bit too swift and with low impacts, but it's always cool to see experiences like these ! Thank you for the review ;)
I always felt that leg attacks in long sword were akin to low kicks in mui thai vs kickboxing, you either train to attack it and avoid it or you get absolutely abused by it. A veteran will sub-consciously sweep away their lead leg (which was out as bait to begin with) if anything approaches low and will let gravity carry a probing attempt to take their opponent's leg if they respond but do not move away from the feint.
I love the respect given to a different art. Shows great confidence and appreciation for the skill involved in every combat style. And the knowledgeable acceptance of another’s skills. Much love and respect to Sensei.
I love how this video is not just respectful of the unfamiliar, but outright APPRECIATIVE. Super classy.
I'm sure Metatron will be honored to have Sensei's reaction and critique. He's a good historian and RUclipsr
Love to see more of this!
Metatron has a Ma in Japanese and has lived there. He absolutely loves Japan. He just reacted to the new Shogun series trailer and I never saw him so happy.
I am always thankful for your videos. Wish you and Seki sensei and everyone else that helps with these videos, the best!
Yess! I was looking forward for this crossover to happen!.
As a hema practitioner and a fan of both you shogo and seki sensei, this was a joy to watch.
The Crossover we always wanted 🖤
This is the kind of sword content I'm here for. Showing one school of swords to practitioners of another and seeing their enjoyment; no petty "which is better??", just people that appreciate fencing approving of the similarities and fun differences of another school.
Skallagrims Polish saber sparring video would be a cool one to see him react to. Quite different but I would love his insight.
Longswords tend to be heavier then katana, but by distribution of mass, the center of gravity is closer to the hilt compared to Katanas, making it feel lighter to move the point, specially since thrusting is a big part of longsword fighting, and spining to transfer energy easier.
Longswords tend to be lighter / same lenght.
you right, its the center of gravity 100%
Heavier, but maybe only by a couple hundred grams, and most of the extra mass is from the larger pommel/hilt/guard (kashira/tsuke/tsuka in Japanese terminology) as compared to the katana, and only a little bit due to the longer length, if any. Longswords (ones actually designed for fighting, at least) tend to have significantly more distal taper than katana, so despite being longer, there's not much additional mass in the blade itself.
@@jamesfrankiewicz5768 Agreed, and i dont even find the comparison between both weapons really fair in many regards.
@@alexflorea4294 No, longswords tend to be heavier per inch.
There is a wonderful video showcasing Hema techniques called "Fior di Battaglia chapter 2 guards of the sword"
I highly recommens it, it would be fun to see how similar some of our techniques are
Highly inspirational one. Akademia Szermierzy are awesome.
That was amazing!
I want more of it if possible!
Watching someone who is an expert in their niche being so genuinely excited and entertained to learn more is just so wonderful and refreshing.
The Sensei represents an art that has an unbroken lineage to it's founders. HEMA practitioners have been studying, and experimenting for only 30 years, and for most, less than that.
Is fencing included in that?
@@nurlindafsihotang49 In a way, yes, but not wth the same weapons, martial focus and intent. I'm sure fencers of the top ranks could easily learn HEMA, and do very well. They still have the basic skills of timing, distance, etc.
Top notch commentary! Thanks Seki Sensei! More HEMA reaction videos, please!
Wasnt expecting this video but im really grateful for it.
Please let seki sensei react to videos portraying hema stances, Akademia Szermiermi has a great one titled Fior Di battaglia chapter II, would love to hear his opinion
1st yes HEMA does have leg attacks although they are less commonly shown than upper body attacks.
2nd Shogo, you & Sensei are always respectful in your videos as I personally had no doubt you would be respectful here & give insight from your perspectives
3rd It's nice to see you & Sensei enjoy watching.
4th I believe Metatron was fairly new to HEMA when he filmed that video so some of his hesitation, lack of certain attacks etc could be because of this.
Adorea has a lot of HEMA related videos on RUclips, including some choreographed fights in full historical costume.
SellswordArts is another RUclipsr with a lot of HEMA videos and shorts, including sparring footage and discussion and description of certain techniques.
Roland Warzecha has some videos about attempting to reconstruct Viking-era sword and shield and axe and shield combat, and that also technically falls under the umbrella of HEMA.
As a few other comments have mentioned, HEMA is an extremely broad category that covers a wide variety of weapons, weapon styles, and specific fighting styles. In addition to longsword, there's sword and shield (which includes several varieties of size and shape for the shields, as well as the distinction between strapped and center grip), spear, mace, and more.
This was awesome! Definitely could see more of this!
It is a common misconception that longswords are really heavy. They at most weight 2 kg, while also having larger blade length. Even though the weight is only slightly higher, its center of balance is lower toward the hilt, making it slightly more maneuverable in general than katana.
Leg attacks are more common when shields get involved… but legs are far from the shoulders - putting your most vital parts at risk to attack lesser vital parts…
Thank you for creating this reaction video. It was very interesting to see your sword masters opinion of HEMA.
Thank you for your videos.
Really think this channel and the online lessons platform have been a great idea.
It's important for those who want to learn Japanese swordsmanship who don't have access to a teacher or perhaps no access to high level instruction to have examples and insights from authentic high level instructors. It also shows the world true Kenjutsu.
I don't mean to be elitist but with something like Kendo or Iaido, they are reasonably well known outside of Japan and there are governing bodies in place with established sixth, seventh and even the odd eighth Dan amongst their ranks and close ties directly with various lineages in Japan to ensure things are handled correctly in terms of expectations for Progression and practice .
For Kenjutsu and kobudo though, I feel there are far less resources in place and far less structure. As a result there are some well intentioned but sadly ill informed practioners out there that could do with the sort of help you're making available here.
for more hema, have a look at "Akademia Szermierzy - Fior di Battaglia"
4-year HEMAist here, As for the leg cut question, most HEMA schools seem to go off the idea that leg cuts, at least in Longsword, aren’t a great idea most of the time, since it leaves your head extremely exposed to counterattack.
Obviously there are ways around this, feinting is an excellent way to cut the legs, there’s also a particularly popular tricksy “peasant” cut where you whip the sword with your offhand at their shins with a deep lunge while just out of distance. It’s considered a “peasant” cut because the manual it’s from only seems to mention how to defend against it, and it’s not a very controlled cut. Perfectly viable though, of course.
But yeah they aren’t super common. You see it more often with the longer one handed swords though, rapier and saber, notably. It’s also VERY common with Sword and Buckler (One-handed + Small shield)
It's wild how this master can easily see the parallels in a martial art developed on the other side of the planet.
Such a beautiful thing that connects us, this desire for mastery and self perfection.
"Maki" is an important part of some HEMA longsword styles. "Binding and Winding" is a common term. Because European longswords have a large handguard and the point of balance is very near the hands, the tip of the blade can be very agile. Techniques to catch the last 1/3 of the opponent's blade with the first 1/3 of your own (Strong against Weak) give you tremendous leverage to "set aside" the incoming attack, control the opponent's blade, and deliver a quick attack with the tip of your sword against their head, neck or arm. Longswords don't have quite the slicing power of a curved blade like the katana, but the double edge and natural thrusting ability make them very versatile.
Bigger tsuba for katanas especially in earlier periods existed and longsword's weight distribution are not all closer to the hands you have some that further away, same is true for katanas.
Japanese swords were also used for thrusting in face whether a sword is single-edged or double-edged has very little to do with how well it can be used for a thrust. The bigger considerations are the shape of the tip and the alignment between the tip and the handle, the back of the blade of the blade also serves a function as a blunt weapon.
OK. Now I want the @Skallagrim Crossover with Shogo and Seki Sensei!
Imagine walking your dog through a park and you suddenly notice a christmas elf fighting that one guy from back in high school who was too into anime
Seki Sensei is an awesome person, I would love him to travel to Europe to interchange experience with Hema practicioners, Masters talk the language of their craft and it is very nice to see them interact.
It would have been nice to hear your guys' final thoughts on the session.
Also, one of kenjutsu's biggest strengths is one of HEMA's biggest weaknesses. Inversely, one of HEMA's biggest strengths is one of kenjutsu's biggest weaknesses.
HEMA follows vague manuscripts that illustrate techniques. But these are oftentimes loose interpretations that have been smeared throughout history. There's a bit of conflict from school to school on how and when certain techniques are performed, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on a number of techniques. Kenjutsu, however, tends to be very clear on how and when techniques are performed. There might be a little debate here and there, but for the most part, practitioners seem to agree on things. (This might partially be a cultural biproduct, however; it seems that Japanese people seldom question those in power, especially someone in a sensei position. An instructor's word is often taken as gospel and that, unfortunately, hinders everyone.)
HOWEVER, something I admire about HEMA but loathe about most kenjutsu is the lack of pressure testing (i.e., sparring). Koryu (Japanese traditional disciplines/dojo) tend to follow and repeat kata until the technique is flawless and sparkly. Execution can completely fall apart, though, when under duress and one isn't used to the dynamic flow (or chaotic rhythm) of someone trying to whack you. Suddenly conditions aren't so perfect and technique falls apart. But because HEMA practitioners tend to spar often, they're used to the dance of mock combat.
This is my experience, at least. I have a feeling that Shogo and Seki Sensei aren't aware of much of this. I'd love to hear more koryu sensei's thoughts on this. Also, I expected Metatron to be awful, but he actually impressed me. I've seen a lot of horrendous sparring sessions (I've been in some, too), but their session wasn't all that bad, especially for a pair with only a few years' experience.
Hello, I am a practitioner of HEMA (about 3 years) I would like to answer questions or clear any misunderstandings had throughout the video.
In the beginning of the video it was asked if there were any leg attacks in HEMA, and the answer is yes, but also no. In longsword, is a technique called gayszlen, which is a one handed strike to the leg. It is a usable technique, but many don't use it, as a leg strike is a second-intention technique, being that if your first intention is parried or otherwise incapable, you can pull back to strike the leg.
At 3:15 it was mentioned that the longsword is heavy, which is a common misconception. A typical longsword weighs in at around 3lbs or 1.3kg. Longswords are spun around mostly in the bind (meeting of two swords) to get around the other blade to an open area of the opponent's body.
Maki/Wind is very common in HEMA as well, most often in the German styles (The style the HEMA fighter in the video used).
There is a youtube channel called Blood and Iron HEMA who do videos on techniques, weapons, and equipment, which may be beneficial and interesting if you do more videos pertaining to HEMA.
A lot of historical longswords weigh more like 3.5lbs (1.6kg), though there's a considerable range. Some weigh under 1.2kg.
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 true, it really depends on the sword, but the point still stands they’re not particularly heavy. The one I spar with, the Regenyei Short Feder is around 1.37kg.
Id argue, that geisseln is a thrust, but yes. :D
All of it.
I think watching some HEMA competition footage should show more high level play of longswords
Thank you for your awesome Videos. It is a pleasure to watch them!
Not only do European longsword weight the same as Katanas, but they actually feel lighter to hold and swing because the weight of the longsword is more concentrated towards the handle and crossguard...
edit: Being a long time fan of Metatron, I know for a fact that he would enjoy doing a collab with Shogo and Seki Sensei...
In HEMA you don’t typically target the legs because of possible leg armor, and hema is made to also target armored opponents, reason two is hema and fencing are critical on foot work. If you attack a hema or a fencer at the feet, they just move back, always avoiding.
'in HEMA...' - well, not all of HEMA u know, we use different weapons, not just medieval swords :)
I love Seki Sensei videos!
Seki-sensei's observation about winding the sword is very notable. It is done in HEMA longsword quite a lot. It's less risky with the longsword because of the crossguard. A katana user would need to be very careful using such techniques against the longsword user, because the design of the longsword favors that sort of fighting. Seki-sensei himself noticed how the crossguard allows for very strong blocks when he tried using the longsword, and this is something HEMA practitioners use to their advantage. I expect that the katana user was aware of this and was trying to avoid getting caught in a wind-and-bind situation against the longsword.
I would love to see Seki-sensei react to Roland Warecza's sparring videos which feature Viking weapons and techniques. Skallagrim also has some good videos of HEMA sparring he could react to.
Hope Metatron sees this! He's a great guy
In terms of leg attacks, many folks consider the risk too high to male many leg attacks. They can and do happen, but they are rare. Leg attacks are common enough that many broadsword and saber styles have specific plays/kata to deal with leg attacks. In fact, many of the wounds found on the dead of the battle of Visby were leg attacks and pretty nasty one
Thank you so much for bringing back the martial into martial arts
I think that showing a video like this first with both katana and longsword is a good baseline for him to better understand the exchanges.
You could definitely speak more with Metatron as well about HEMA he speaks advanced Japanese and is actually a linguistics teacher by trade. It would be fun to see an interview.
Was that Metatron using the katana?
Okay this video is going to be fire!
Great video brother ❤
Am i crazy or is the kenjutsu user always half commited in his attacks? Many times he has back leg lifted in the air awkwardly and swipe at empty air. I don't believe this is a good representation of kenjutsu vs Hema
My thoughts exactly! The kenjutsu practitioner never fully committed to his attacks and had trouble establishing proper maai--distance/interval--to be effective.
They're fighting at extremely long distance a lot of the time.
I mean they have bare faces & bare hands. The lack of protective gear likely encourages caution.
the katana user is kind of forced to do that to get extra reach vs the longsword here, the two swords they are using are different lengths so it is kind of necessary sometimes
The problem with leg attacks is that we typically work with a longer measure, crossing blades that are usually longer on their weak (the last third of the blade, which ends at the tip). Due to the geometry of an attack to the leg, the attacker's sword will cut along the hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle whose sides are the horizontal line connecting the two swordsmen, and the vertical line passing through the body of the swordsman being attacked. Thus, aiming for the leg will always require a shorter measure than aiming for the head. This fact means that, unless the proper measure has already been passed (for whatever reason), the defender can simply take half a step back to save his leg, while executing a stab towards the attacker's head (which will be exposed).
Well, you have gotten me hooked after two videos. Seki Sensei is a wealth of knowledge, and his explanations and break-downs are informative and easy to follow.
Really loving these videos and seki sensei's insights and commentary