Doctor Who's Dalek Conspiracy
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- Опубликовано: 20 мар 2024
- If you've spent any time in the Doctor Who fanbase, you may have come across discussions and complaints about the Daleks appearing too often, with many fans suggesting this is because of some kind of shadowy contract. So, get ready, because it's time to dive into the rabbit hole of the Dalek conspiracy...
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if you don't support me on patreon the terry nation estate will take away the rights to the daleks
www.patreon.com/harbowholmes
Recurrence of the Daleks sounds like an episode name.
Predictability of the Daleks
As Alasdair Beckett put it best, "The Crushing Inevitability of the Daleks"
For "Recursion of the Daleks", see "Recursion of the Daleks"
Extermination of the daleks
Is that the one with Colin Baker?
I kinda think that the reason the contract conspiracy has stuck around for so long is 1. A LOT of people would do that if they held the rights to them since it'd mean more money for them, and they assume that greed of everyone, and 2. It's frankly kinda funny to imagine a writers room going "Well we have to use them SOMEWHERE"
Tbh, everyone involved in this question can be safely assumed to be the greediest mfs in the world. They're rich.
Doctor Who and The Crushing Inevitability of The Daleks
🎶 No-one else was in the room when it happened, the room when it happened, the room when it happened. Nobody knows how the game is played; the art of the trade; how often the Daleks have to be played. 🎵
While I don't usually mind the reoccurrence, I definitely noticed 2021 and 2022 both having Dalek New Years specials which felt weird at the time. I feel a lot of the stagnation could be averted by setting the threat away from Earth, showing the kind of destruction they spread across the cosmos. It may even be fresh to see the Doctor fail against them, and only narrowly escape. A lot of Dalek stories seem to end in the "everybody lives" mindset (In the sense that they often attack a few people on screen before being absolutely decimated themselves) which seriously slashes the threat given the way they present themselves.
Yeah, show the Doctor just BARELY escape with his life, maybe with some sort of permanent injury (like 12's blindness) to show that these Daleks don't fuck about
Then leave them for a while and they come back eventually, but it's the same ones who escaped, and we've seen the damage they can do to the Doctor now, and that makes them scary again
I thought, while that the Nation estate holds the creative rights, the BBC owns the design rights.
If there was ever a time when a "use them or lose them" clause made sense, it would have been in force when Terry Nation was still alive to benefit from it - after all, he was always keen to cash in on "his" creations. Yet there were massive, often series-long gaps between Dalek appearances during the Classic Era.
I say "his" creations, because let's not forget that the iconic design was the work of Ray Cusick and, as I understand it, the actual _design_ is BBC copyright. Terry Nation and his estate hold the rights to the concept and the name.
iirc The TN Estate does hold the rights to the movie Dalek designs. Unsure about this, though.
Nah, think about how things with "the estate" owning things usually goes after the person is dead. Kill an artist and the vultures swarm their art. It makes way more sense to be in force when the people who have no artistic talent but can engorge themselves on the economic success of a dead man who did benefit from it.
@@PosthumanHeresy Terry Nation was famous for wanting to enrich himself at every opportunity. While he had the gall to milk millions out of the Daleks, the true geniuses who made "Dalekmania" happen (Ray Cusick, the designer, and the Radiophonic Workshop who came up with the voices), got next to nothing in return.
@@ftumschk Let's not forget the writers: the voice and design wouldn't be enough if they were bland and had no personality or memorable moments.
@@TristenSarelvun Terry Nation basically was the writer during Dalekmania. Unfortunately, the Daleks are rather bland and lacking in personality in themselves, and their dialogue is pretty limited. It could be argued that their most memorable moments (e.g. the cliffhanger of Barbara screaming at a Dalek plunger) owe more to the directors, visual designers and camera crews who literally brought Terry Nation's often "samey" scripts to life.
Contract of The Daleks
I'm extremely glad Julie Gardener kept pushing for the Daleks to come back! Without that we might not have gotten that fearful scene in the season 4 finale with Murray Gold's amazing Dalek theme that always gives me chills just thinking about it
You forgot 2020 there were no daleks that year either
2020 had enough go wrong without daleks too
They were there, but they were isolating.
Apart from the Time lord Victorious event crossover across all media that year. The Daleks were a huge part of that, which was over the pandemic.
It's always a good day when someone brings up Looney Tunes Back in Action :)
You missed an opportunity not calling this video "Conspiracy of the Daleks".
I still find it so strange that the writers have all the rights to their monsters. Like who agreed to that at the start? 😂
Although the Daleks are not in this season I wouldn't mind seeing the Daleks try their hand at singing. How about the Daleks doing a cover of Misunderstood by the Animals. That would be hilarious.
Fun fact, one of the Looney Tunes: Back In Action Dalek props appears in Ted 2 ( 2015 ) with some changes
After RTD somewhat recently responded to a fan to call the existence of this requirement rubbish, I've felt pretty satisfied with that as confirmation that it was never true. It's never held water to begin with, and I heavily dislike how often it gets touted with such confidence.
forgot about that bit where matt smith enters the dalek ship with an eye stalk. LMAO incredible
The Dakeks are to Doctor Who as the Joker is to Batman.
The Joker keeps showing up in every movie series, cartoon, and TV show. He got his own movies. And has been the focus in the comics to the point that they killed him off in the 80s and again in the 2000s and yet he got his own comic series at least four times and is shoehorned into other major events.
Even though it's heavily rumoured I kinda want RTD to purposely not use the Daleks in any Ncuti episodes purely to spite those who moan about their "constant" appearance.
Yes I understand they were used a lot during RTD 1 and Moff's run but I think despite all of Chibs flaws he used them sparingly and efficiently.
There being a use it or lose it contract has so much circumstantial evidence behind it that at some point you just gotta go with it.
Every single (production) series had Daleks, including several recurrences where their appearance had absolutely no relevance to the episode as a whole, just for a single scene. The New Years special mentioned was part of Series 11's production cycle as far as I can tell from searching.
As for the Moffat interview, all he did in said interview was... not answer the question and instead posing counter questions, which is a very famous Moffat tactic for not having to lie (which makes sense, many contracts have NDAs, and in general talking publicly about contracts is kind of a no-no). This is something he has done so often, and even did as recently as for the upcoming series when asked if he'd be writing for Ncuti's doctor, which again everyone was just happy to assume meant 'No, I won't be writing for Ncuti', but... well we now know how that turned out. Moffat always plays this coy when he doesn't want to lie, but also doesn't want to tell the truth either. How often do patterns need to repeat themselves before y'all just come to terms with the fact that the easiest explanation is likely the correct one.
For a long time that easiest explanation was 'they're just that popular', but that hasn't been true for years now (the explanation being the easiest, not their popularity). A use-em-or-lose-em type contract being in play much more neatly explains the usage of Daleks from 2005 all the way till now than the popularity reasoning does.
I don't know what else to tell you, but for me at this point there would need to be some real solid proof to counter the claim to convince me otherwise, which this video did not provide.
The logic behind the conspiracy doesn't make sense to me. Nation's estate wouldn't agree to one appearance unless they got endless appearances?
That's like saying you don't want to give someone a tenner unless they agree to taking a tenner a year for life. You don't negotiate by offering more of what the other side wants as your side.
If they get paid per use, this is a really good deal. It's a bit like getting an exclusivity contract as a distributor. They have to come to the table like clockwork every year to pay out.i think the logic is that they were upset and wanted to make sure they got a regular fee from the BBC
@LP-tf7cy maybe but again there's no way the BBC would just want a one off deal. They'd get that regular payday regardless
@@EmpireGamingWynter they'd get them pretty often but not necessarily yearly. They knew they were key to the planned revival, so they got the best deal they could. If it happened
I think the production teams are probably playing to this crazy theory now because it's fun to do so, to lean into the crazy because it keeps people talking about Doctor WHO.
If we’re being fair, the Daleks are super popular & its easy to do stories that involve them when its necessary. Sometimes, we can get breaks from Dalek-centric stories, even when they do appear. It will be fine.
-James M
Maybe if the contract did exist itd be more based around the doctor. Each doctor needs a time with the daleks. If the timings are right they knew of Ecclestons departure by then and as such used knowledge of future doctors to keep the license.
Every new who doctor has had some kind of episode or minisode with the daleks, including 14 (children in need)
Could you, one day, make a video about how a true series finale of Doctor Who could look like?
The character options dalek merch is great
I love how when u talked about unlisenced media there was a picture of the book of the war which has its own legal speak all the way through it my favourite being the great houses (time lords)
Personally, I love seeing the Daleks. They scare the absolute p*ss out of me. A xenophobic race that wants to destroy everything that is not Dalek, with the abilities to back that up? If that’s not terrifying, I don’t know what is. There have been some real tinpot dictators in Earth’s history, who conquered the, then, known world, and some who very nearly managed to take over the modern world (and some who did, but we just haven’t realised it yet… :) ). But they eventually failed due to technological limitations, and the willingness of ordinary, everyday people to step up, say, “no”, and fight for their freedom, despite how bad their chances were.
Now, compare that to the Daleks. Entire civilisations, with nothing whatsoever in common, banded together for protection, in fear of them. The Time Lords, known for their apparent indolence, and apathy, took proactive measures to try to prevent the Daleks from coming into being. The greatest war in all of known history was fought across time, by the Time Lords and the Daleks, and their respective allies. Countless billions died. Neither side can claim to have won. Yet the Daleks endured.
And they are still out there…
Cheers,
It wouldn’t surprise me if the reason for the dalek’s being so overused is the higher ups at the bbc are pressuring the writers to use them thinking that will get more people watching.
The reason for there popularity is that
Everyone loves them 😊
Please give us the full Series 9 review soon and move on to Series 10 episodes! 🙏
As an American this whole idea blows my mind. I’ve worked on TV shows for years & if you come up with an idea it goes to the studio. Never to the person who came up with the idea. Doesn’t matter if you wrote the episode, drew the design, or even created the show itself (with rare exception). It all belongs to the studio. It’s why we have The Simpsons instead of an animated version of the Life In Hell comics.
Hard to say if the UK way is better or not. As a creative I'd love to have to have some say in my work & get money later. but I can also see studios avoiding characters because they don't want to be bothered with asking. And there are issues like where the first doctor episodes are disappearing because of one random son of the estate.
That's how it is _now_ everywhere. The Daleks were created in the 1960s with a show with such an absurdly tight budget. Everything short of pick of the cast to bed was worth giving as an option to get anyone to work on the show for less money. If you could pay someone less by giving them the rights, with a show that you believe _might_ last one season (they debuted in the first season ever), yeah that made sense. The people working on the First Doctor era pushed their budget to look 10x bigger than it actually was.
@@PosthumanHeresy ah! That makes sense (back then). Money always wins. Too bad these days the studios keep rights to everything even if it never sees the light of day.
"The simplest explanation is the right one unless you can prove that it ISN'T." --How Occam's Razor was explained to me about 45 years ago.
Okay...but which one IS the simplest explanation?
When are you going to cover series 10?😢
If SONY can get hacked multiple times then someone will eventually be able to hack the BBC and get confirmation of whether there is an official contract for usage of the Daleks.
Surely 'CONSPIRACY of the DALEKS'?
I've heard this rumour since before the fiftieth. the usual consequence I've heard has been that indeed, the license would be revoked and the show can never use the daleks again. it's just a case of how iconic the daleks are that the show borderline overuses them, and I honestly hope there is a year without daleks and it gives the daleks and this conspiracy a rest
I don't believe in it but I kind of wish it was a thing. It would just make me feel better that the Daleks' over-use is due to a contract and not the writers constantly appealing to the bottom of the fanbase barrel.
Also I now want Anya Taylor-Joy to be an alien on Doctor Who.
series 10 reviews ,talk about Bill potts!
i speculated this as a kid lol, i had a book that was an encyclopedia on all characters and all them would list which doctors the characer met and the daleks were one of the few that said "all" so I thought maybe they had to meet every doctor, then I thought about it more and realised they appeared in every season of the show so I hought maybe the BBC was forcing them to put them into every season at least once in a small way for marketing reasons, or like there's this executive who really liked the daleks or something
tbh I think my childhood conspiracy is more believable than this one, it makes a lot of sense for it to be marketing reasons
i think theres just this one exec who believes there needs to be daleks every time anything about doctor who comes out for trailers and shit, it's just some higher up who just either wants the daleks or thinks the daleks has to be there
i now believe in the dalek conspiracy theory just so that looney tunes back in action caused all this in the first place because that would funny
Daleks and then BBV
It's an interesting rumor.
It's either a contractual issue or bad writing and overuse.
Thanks champ
I feel there is a tiny bit of weight behind the contract conspiracy. We know that people can withhold certain properties. When it was the 60th and all the Classic Era Who episodes were put onto iPlayer "the ones that are not missing" we know that the first ever story An Unearthly Child wasn't because the son of one of the original scriptwriters of that episodes withheld those episodes and prevented them being put on iPlayer for the 60th. Yes I know that it is known that this guy is a bit of a leech and tried this a lot and tried to do it before with the rights to the TARDIS design and stuff but my point is it can be done. He did prevent them from going on iPlayer. People can very easily withhold or withdraw rights to certain intellectual property. It's like with the MCU. Before Disney brought Fox, Marvel and Kevin Fiege didn't have the full rights to use both the Maximoff twins in the MCU hence why Pietro was killed off in Age Of Ultron and Wanda was the one used in the later projects. They were not able to get the rights to use the character of Quicksilver because at the time Fox owned the rights but since Disney brought Fox they now have the rights so the character was then able to appear in Wandavision. So while I feel the Dalek Contract may not be as strict as people think I think there are some stipulations in terms of frequent usage of the property.
Always wondered that lol
Why do the Daleks keep appearing in Doctor Who? Why does the Joker keep appearing in Batman?
occam's razor is empirically false. The history of science is the history of us learning just how complicated the universe actually is, and each time we thought it was simple we found evidence against that
Occam's Razor doesn't claim the universe is simple. It claims that explanations which require fewer new (i.e., not already proven) assumptions are preferable to those which require more such assumptions.
In this case, the explanation that the Daleks appear so frequently because they're an iconic feature of the show requires zero new assumptions. The conspiracy theory requires the unproved assumption of a legal contract.
Alonso ❤
Fernando Alonso is a god, I agree
The Daleks were used so much because they’re popular with viewers. It’s just that simple
Truth of Universe: Universe is the microorganism neuron microorganism and the the bacteria. We are in the the puddle. Bacteria in puddle.
The only thing I learned from this video is that Anya Taylor Joy is an alien.
So, I'm personally of the belief that it's not that the Daleks HAVE to be used, I think that perhaps the BBC agreed that they'd give a certain percentage of revenue from the show per year, so the BBC tries to maximize the usage of them.
ha been watching dr who before you were even evented
this comment is a contractual obligation
Just put the dalek time controller on screen that’s what the daleks need, an insane, unique and powerful match for the doctor
It sure was great to be reminded of the time that Stevie Wonder debated Fred Durst, Louis CK, and an. Hang on, lemme me make sure I'm reading this right. An "Amputte," on the basics of funk.
Nope I don't believe it
Wow u look so much like Ben Mitchell from EastEnders, the current Ben. Ben 8.