The variable axle lengths seem seem to be vaporwear. My last response from wahoo was "check with your local dealer", local dealers and fitters all say no word yet from Wahoo. Aftermarket ones are showing up on ebay already however....
Speedplay Zeros with a 65mm spindle are the only road pedals I can use in comfort, so it's a pity that Wahoo haven't made their pedals widely available with the longer spindles. I'm a big n burly lad, so I would be dubious about riding aftermarket titanium spindles . Hopefully some aftermarket manufacturers might start making stainless steel spindles for the new pedals soon.
The bike industry should change the name of clipless pedals to cleated pedals. There's a new generation of cyclists who has never seen or used a toe clip so they can't get over the concept that clipless pedals are actually pedals that clip in. Too much time is spent by everyone explaining the history of why clipless pedals have clips. It's time to eliminate the confusion. I've biked for over 40 years with toe clips and finally changed over to clipless pedals. I regret I didn't change over sooner.
Completely agree, I had toe clips ~40 years ago. That experience, well a particular experience involving a traffic light, sideway fall once stopped etc, made me hesitant to get 'clipless' when getting back into cycling again only about 3 years ago. Now I would not want otherwise. I'm riding two-sided SPD, very convenient and I feel 'naked' when on my other bike I use the flat side of my SPD / flat pedals
Great explanations. I’ve always used SDP. I recently found the PD-ES600 pedal. Single sided SPD, light weight, and a wide design. Can be a little tricky to clip into at first. The ability to walk out of the house and into the coffee shop without issue, and very little cleat maintenance, makes them perfect for me. No pain, hotspots, or excess fatigue.
Always rode with look pedals, now looking into switching to PD ES600 on my new all-road bike because it looks perfect for my use case. Thanks for your feedback into this pedals, definitely going to try
@@Mrwitte95 I would use road pedals (SPD SL). Unless you plan on riding through traffic and stopping at red lights all the time... Just go for road pedals. Much better for that. You can also set up road cleats for bike fit, big bonus.
Lately I use flat pedals with hiking shoes for touring and bike packing. No foot or whatsoever issues even on 180km+ distances/day. Despite multiple bikefit sessions my right knee is killing me if I use clipless for long distances.
You should get your leg lengths measured. Sounds like you may hage a discrepancy. My right leg is like a quarter inch shorter than the other one. Solved the knee pain problem with a shim under the clear.
Thanks Francis and James...I am an SPD guy..they happened to be the ones my shop recommended , and I love em ! I have em in all 3 bikes . road , gravel and MTB . I use a Shimano RX-8 shoe , with a very stiff composite sole. Peace
Do you see any advantage to using SPD-SL for longer road rides over the SPDs? BTW I use SPDs on my road and gravel and am considering getting SPD-SL power meter pedals for the road bike. That would mean new shoes and cleats as well so a considerable investment 😃
@@rwil6969 I think its mostly around the shoes when it comes to comfort. I've done very long rides in both and usually my feet feel worse in my road shoes, but I think my rode shoes fit just a bit worse than my spd shoes.
I use Shimano SPD on my winter road bike and gravel bike (both with cages). They are one sided and the other side is a flat pedal. I find this particularly useful if I've wheel spun to a stop on a slippery hill.... it's much easier to get going again as quick cleat engagement is not vital. I use Shimano SPD-SL on my summer aero bike where this problem isn't really an issue and I find they provide better drive. Of course the SPD recessed cleats also make walking easier, but I carry around a pair of cleat covers in summer, which help and also protects your cleats.
Often disappointed by how dismissive some people are of flat pedals. GCN do the same thing. Proper flat pedals, not the rubbish ones you get free with a cheap bike, give you a huge platform and you stick to them like glue. The main issue people mention seems to be more related to the footwear than the pedals. Get a cycling specific flat shoe and the difference to clipless isn't that great IMO.
Agree, I go through periods using Shimano mtb spd so I can still walk, but now mostly stick with MKS Gordito (new wider version of Sylvan touring) with Restrap diagonal straps and Vans pro slip on, and have lots of grip and adjustability and movement and can get off the bike and do anything else.
Sticking to them like glue is tricky because you can't really dial in your foot angle. It's so hard to get comfortable when you can't just twist your foot a bit but have to pull it up and then put it back down.
One you didn't mention was the eggbeater. I started using these decades ago on a mountain bike and liked them so much I put them on my street bikes. The extra weight of a MB shoe is offset by the lightness of the pedal and with a recessed cleat, they are easy to walk in.
Shimano PD-EH500 SPD is on my gravel bike, my commute isn't very long (10mins) so use the flat side for work and back. Then on days off work and I go out and about (Hamsterley and back etc) I use the clipless side. Best of both and no problems so far 😀👍
Had to switch from SPD-SL to Look Keo when I upgraded to my Favero Assioma DUO pedals. I agree that the SPD-SL is marginally better but after more than a year using Look Keo I can't say there's much difference. I can adjust the tension, the bearings in the Assiomas are great and the cleats are pretty much the same cost. I was excited when Favero finally bought out an SPD-SL version of their pedals, but with the only option being an extra 5mm longer axle I stuck with the ones I've got.
Same for me at first spd sl ultegra r8000 pedal, than assioma duo with look System. But it have to say that i like the ultegra pedal much more, the pedal feels much better for me the connection to the cleat feels more Solid and the cleats are much more durable and they cost the same here in germany. And clipping in is a bit easier with the ultegra pedal.
@@Neilz911 it's a real shame Favero weren't able to make the Duo-Shi without increasing the axle length so much. A few mm I could manage but they're 11mm longer than regular Ultegra pedals.
I have Assiomas, initially using the supplied Xpedo 6-float cleats, which would easily unclip during a sprint. I then bought some Look 4.5-float cleats, which were better, before settling on Xpedo 0-float cleats, which are better still. I still detect a slight bit of float. I am not convinced that having no float is a bad thing; for, when I used to ride a mountain bike with shark-teeth pedals, my soles dug in and my feet remained planted. It's all in the initial setup methinks.
Great vlog. I’m using XTR SPDs on my road bike. Which give a good platform with my XC9 shoes. Love that I can walk in them. I still go out sometimes on my 80s Raleigh 531 racer. I’ve got the pedals I put on back then, which are Shimano but with the Look cleat system. I think they were the first Dura Ace pedals they did. And they are still going strong!
Years ago I started off with clips and toe straps. Once the first Look pedals came out I switched to them. Then knee problems started so I went with Time and loved them That was when I was 155lbs and early twenties. Now that I'm in my mid fifties it's race face Chester flat pedals all the way. It's party pace for me now. I may give spd a try when I get a chance to do the tour divide but most likely I'll stick with flat
I rode Look still for 5 years when everyone had switched to Time, just couldn't afford them. The Chesters are very good pedals for the money. Good bearings, last a long time. Stay away from DMR, they're disposable junk, even the expensive models.
I've been using a 2-bolt system for a while now, and have settled with the SPD-style cleat on the Look 2-bolt pedals. And run them across all of my bikes, even the track bike. Shimano has a conversion plate to make a 3-bolt shoe accept the 2-bolt SPD pedal (however the newest version takes away the fore/aft option; but it also comes with a built in 'walking cleat' that I believe aids in foot stability on the pedal. I use the SPD system 1)because I buy my own pedals 2) because it allows me to use ANY pair of shoes with ANY bike for any purpose. Gravel, commute, errand, group rides, TTs, etc. etc....
Thanks to James and Francis BFTs, last summer I took up James's advice: pedals to dura ace spd sl's, shoes to Lake and G8 insoles, the result was transformative, comfort and pain free cycling🥳......the latter 2 items purchased from bicycle Richmond. Sound practical advice over the phone from James at the time too 👍👌
I have used Time since the late 80s, and have never had a problem. Switched to Time from Look after a knee op in 88. Back in the day I had titanium axels , but I found them too soft. Big difference when I switched back to steel. I use the cheapest pedals from Time at the moment and have no problems. Cheap and cheerful and only cost a few euros more than buying new cleats. Plus for me the easiest to set up the cleats. Just my take on things.
yep pretty much bang on, SPD-SL for road bike, SPD for the gravel/MTB. Tried Speedplay a while back and did not like them so banged em on eBay but James is missing the worst thing about flat pedals! the times it swings around and smashes into your calf AKA Pedal gash.
Why all the hate for Speedplay pedals? The new pedal interface is a lot more stable and the cleats are so much easier to adjust, plus the float is without any resistance and they don't wear out if you maintain them properly.
Regarding the new Speedplay models from Wahoo, they do still come with the baseplate and shims. So you can move them backwards or forwards, the same as on the old model from Speedplay (I have both). Unless there’s an even older model with more adjustability that I’m not aware of!
Francis and James - very informative, as always. Currently I am using SHIMANO Ultegra R8000 SPD-SL for my road bike and SHIMANO XTR PD-M9020 for my gravel bike. During my search for road pedals I compared the SHIMANO 105, Ultera and Dura Ace models. I was able to find the Utegra pedals at a great price so that was my choice. Bottom line is that all the SHIMANO pedals are very good. Over the years I have used several different models of LOOK pedals and SHIMANO SPD pedals.
I use SpeedPlay (not wahoo), one other advantage is that the only way out is to turn your foot. I never involuntarily unclipped ! But, I agree that what Wahoo has done by removing the axle lenghts from the options, and also the fact that you could service them (add grease) contrary to Wahoo's is counterproductive. I'm quite annoyed at what Wahoo has done with them. 1 other advantage of the Speedplay/Wahoo system, is the lower stack height over all the other systems ! Great for Criterium racers (although I'm not one of them).
Rookie rider here. Bike came with Look Keo Classics, and Izumi Pearl shoes that were luckily my size. They seem to work well. Better after moving the cleat as far back in the shoe as possible, per James' recommendation.
As a starting point for clipless pedals I think the shimano spd mtb or even their touring pedal (flat on one side) is ideal. I wasn’t confident about clipless but found the spd to be ideal and I starting with the spring at its weakest until I got used to it. I have yet ( don’t jinx it) to have a clipless fail/fall. They are great for commuting as you can almost walk normally in the shoes.
My first "strapless" pedals were Look delta style. I'm still using them on some of my bikes, but I'm shifting to Keo. Red cleats mostly, but giving gray a go. Favero Assioma power meter pedals come standard with the Keo-style system, and that is why I'm making the shift.
I have been using Shimano PD-7401 pedals since I built my Schwinn Paramount with Dura-Ace in 1991. When I acquired other road bikes I was able buy more PD-7401s at very reasonable prices. 30+ year old pedals still work great. I have not had any problems using the black cleats.
I like the Shimano SPD pedal (with a platform) because it is double-sided & I can wear bike shoes that I can walk in. When I am going for a short ride to the store I can easily wear any kind of shoe or sneaker because of the platform surrounding the cleat section. A win-win all the way around for me. In addition that metal cleat lasts longer & the tightness of the cleat section of the pedal is adjustable.
I wore Time ATAC mtb pedals commuting from 2000-2014. Not the same pair, probably went through a dozen pair. Easiest pedal entry ever. Around 2000, Look had a road pedal CX-7s that could be adjusted closer to or further from the crank arms, within a 10-mm range. And their foot-tilt angle adjustment allows modification of the position from negative-3 to positive-3 degrees. I messed with them for a bit around 2005-2007. Been on Shimanos since then.
Used to use Shimano SPD-SL’s but never really got on with them so went to Look Keo Carbon blades & wouldn’t go back. Once you find the right blade tension you’re sorted. The older versions were prone to the rocking movement James talks about but the newer version I’ve had zero problems. I use the (devils work) fixed cleats & they are far from fixed IMHO. There is quite a bit of lateral movement in there which is good.
J&L make extended axles for the new speedplay paddels. Are of excellent quality. And my new speedplay paddels do have the for aft plate. Also Sq-labs makes look keo compatible paddels with longer axles.
So, I just changed back to SPD SL (105) from the SP (M520) 4 days ago.... i had nasty fall and hospitalisation (head injury) in 2018 when my foot came out of the right pedal whilst accelerating (was out of the saddle)... I am a bigger rider (6 feet /83kgs)... just sharing my experience. Took a lot to get back to road shoes and spd sl.
I use flat pedals for short commutes to and from work with cycling trainers and if I’m doing more of a distance, shimano spd with giro Mountain bike shoes, works well with me
If you’re pulling out of Time Xpresso the reason why is the rear clip under side which mates with the cleat has developed a chamfer due to wear. Using dirty cleats accelerates this wear. I can put out over 1000 watts never unclipped yet especially considering 15 degrees of float on offer. I can fully service Xpresso pedals replacing to rear clip. I recently replaced the rear clip on a Xpresso 15 with a new Xpresso 2 donor pedal.
I started on a road bike with SPD pedals and never changed. I love the SPD pedals. They’ve never caused any issues and I would never consider another pedals system because they work well for me.
Not exactly a pro rider, more of a keen amateur 😊 Have to say I’m a fan of the Look Keo Blades; look good & simple. I have never bought the “all out” Ti versions with ceramic bearings so cannot comment on those - the standard carbon pedals with 4.5 float cleat seem to be perfect for me 😁👍🏽
I use the Shimano SPD system on all my bikes Run the SPD cross country pedal on my trail, gravell and cyclocross bikes Use the new PD- E600 gravel pedal on my road and triathlon bikes due to the longer axle and more float than your standard Look cleated road pedals Also use the multi angle release SPD cleats (silver) on my road and xc shoes
Crankbrothers eggbeater with their road adapter. This way I can use whatever three-hole road shoe I want without the slop of a mountain bike pedal sans-recess. I absolutely love the pedals! I have both road and mountain bikes, so the pedal system being the same between them is a huge plus.
I started using a cage, got a simple one from Decathlon, to check out if i actually like it, and works like a charm! I ride what is basically a touring bike , and i need a system that works with all kinds of shoes.
Great show mate. Both my bikes have Shimano XT PD M8100 XC SPD. One bike is a Berlin single speed street racer masher, the other steed is a All City Nature Boy SSCX built to send it in the forest. Blessings from Kreuzberg mate.
I went from keo to speedplay to shimano, I alway thought speedplay had good adjustment but it’s more than you need, speedplay does wear out so quickly, it needs oiling every time you come home. (Dry lube). Shimano is fit and forget, I got the wider ones and you can really tell the difference. I still feel speedplay are the best for clipping in but for really light people like my wife she has a hard time pushing in to them. She finds shimano better with the pivot action much easier. Like he says just stick with shimano they are the best.
Thanks for another great video. I am a bike fitter, but not as knowledgeable as James, I always manage to pick up a nugget or two of great information from these vids. This week was the existence of the SQlab pedals, which unfortunately do not appear on the US distributors website. I have had trouble sourcing longer axle pedals throughout the pandemic.
I'm all over the Shimano PD-EH500 dual platform, great on long rides clipped in also great as they are dual platform. I'd switch to SPD-SL if I started racing though I guess...
@@ollieb9875 i have them on my 3 bikes, road, singlespeed and gravel. When I get my race frame I'll get road cleats for sure, and another pair of shoes, of course.
I alternate between SPD-SL, SPD, and Crank Brothers MTB Flats. I run SPD-SL on my TT bike, never swap it out. My road bike I alternate between SPD-SL and SPD just because I like my SPD shoes a touch better but it depends on what I'm doing. My gravel bike alternates between the SPD and the MTB flats but it's mostly just up to whatever I feel like. I do find that trail running shoes on MTB flats (with the pins) provides more than enough stability and grip as well as makes hike-a-bike considerably easier.
I ride Shimano SPD pd a520 pedals and use Shimano SH-XC500 shoes. I have used SPD’s for the last 23 years and haven’t found any reason to change-I use them on my road, gravel and mountain bikes with a520 pedals on road and gravel bikes and M324 pedals on my mountain bike as I often use that as a general bike just to ride down the shops with flat trainers on-or even flip flops when on holiday.
I use Crank Bro Candy 1 on my road bikes. I like having the mountain bike style shoe for ease of walking around at cafe stops. I am not a racer and not concerned about weight. I ride for fun and fitness, so the Candy pedals work great for me.
I’m quite disappointed in your comments about the Time pedal system. First off it’s the ONLY system that offers both lateral and rotational float. Also contrary to your comments it offers adjustable Q factor as well. If you actually measure pelvic stability via a pressure mapping that this system generally fixes off center saddle sitting. Lastly your comments about pre release. We’re attributed to the old cleat and pedal design and those issues have been remedied in the latest designs.
Totally agree I had the look both soughts changed to Shimano 10 years ago cleats last forever just bought the another pair Dura Ace this time love the low stack height really does make a difference to my old knees 😀..
After SPD-SL all my bikes are now a TIME ATAC, which you didn't cover. It allows my foot to move ever so slightly inboard and outboard, depending on what I like on that day.
As a user of speedplay i do agree with a lot of the points, i tend to replace cleats every 3 months or so. But i'm just so used to using speedplay, and i love their engagement, and the looks. I've been using them since 2012, but i just don't get on with plastic cleats of other set ups, they wear out fast and then have terrible engagement after a surprisingly short whiles, where as speed play you might just get a weird feeling like rocking, almost as though the cleat feels loose, but that's it.
How on earth do you have to replace the cleats every 3 months? I'm seriously asking it, as I ride over 10s of thousands of kms with them and do not have a single issue.
@@ggrande8048 I never used to replace that often, maybe every 18 months when I was first on speed play, but you don’t realise how much the plastic on the pedal wears causing quite a loose feeling cleat. You get used to it so you don’t notice. Buy a new set of speed play pedals and cleats and you’ll be shocked at how different they feel. The c clip wears and creates more rocking than it should. A worn speed play cleat will still clip in and out fine and won’t come loose but won’t operate as designed
I've just switched my road bike to Shimano SPD pedals today. I was so tired of ruining SPD-SL cleats with even minimal walking and it means I will only need one pair of shoes for road/gravel so I can spend a bit more on my next pair.
I hope that works out for you. I did the same, but once I started riding significant road miles I found the stable platform of a road shoe and pedal were a huge improvement for me.
Agree a 100% I've ridden since late 80's when look came out i used looks till one day i had to get shimano 9000 pedals i use a fixed cleat black when used look and red now with shimano I've never looked back the dura ace 90 and 9100 have worked flawlessly for the last 8 years even changed pedals on the wife's bike but she uses blue cleats
Started with toe clips and straps a long time ago. They were tricky for mtb hard to get in or out and dragged upside down if you missed soon switched to spd or" spuds" Maybe clip less should be called strapless. Time XC work well,good mud clearing.
Didn't mention Eggbeaters. With four sided entry, they're very easy to get in and out of, very light, but not very durable. (rebuild kits are readily available though)
I use Crank Brothers on my road and MTB. The float on them allows some rotation of the foot. I like them because I use MTB shoes when I ride. I f I need to walk MTB shoes are more suitable.
I ride platform pedals with platform specific cycling shoes. 10,000km a year for the last 5 years. Give quality platform pedals and shoes a try. You'd be very surprised.
I use powertaps (which have a minor variant on the Look Keo cleat) on the road, and SPDs off road (ones with a cage around them on the MTB, and no cage on the 'cross bike). Horses for courses.
I've ridden mtb SPD pedals for 10 years then switched to a road pedals Assioma DUOs, so didnt have any option if i want power. Didnt really like it, way slower clipping in, no noticeable different otherwise, once the pedals are spinning around they were super hard to clip in. So i converted them to SPD Assioma DUOs, best decision!
I use spdr on my winter and turbo bikes. Moved over to them in the early 2000s after a plastic cleat snapped in a sprint. Have several sets of dura ace pedals and aa bag of cleats. Just a trial getting shoes that accept them.
Having used Time pedals for over 30 years I have to say these latest incarnation’s are by far the poorest. Carbon springs are weak and break easily and the cleats might as well be made from cheese. Switched to SPD-SL’s last year and in the words from a previous video “what have I been doing with my life” Great pedal system and despite my winter bike being Campag equipped they still work on there too…😉
Actually you have some inaccuracies. The latest designs have adjustable tension and have fixed many of the older issues that plagued Time. Also as the only pedal system that offers lateral float it tends to remedy off center saddle sitters and pelvic instability.
Since I stopped racing I've switched from SPD-SL to SPD on all of my bikes. I started with Shimano XT pedals but now prefer the Look X-Track pedals. I think they are a little wider, offering a little more stability.
I have a pair of iSSi flip pedals on my Trek Domane. This allows me to wear normal street shoes when doing a more casual ride, or I can put my SPD equipped shoe for longer more serious rides.
I’ve tried look , time and speed play on my campag build. I’ve gone back to shimano and I don’t care if it’s mixed with campagnolo. Nice Speedy pro, looks nice on that strap.
I’m fairly new to cycling. I put Look on bike and I’ve just changed from grey 4 degree float to black 0 degree float. I’ve been out 3 times and actually find them nicer. I hope I don’t get any knee trouble, I to old for any other troubles, 😂. Thanks for video.
SPD all the way! I use my bike for commuting and for 3-4 hour leisure rides on the weekends. I value being able to put my feet down at red lights, and walk around shops and cafés without clip-clopping like a sodding horse.
I've been using crankbrothers candy's on my road bike for my first few years of riding clipless. But I just got my first gravel bike, so the candy's will be moving over there and I'm finally upgrading to SPD-SL for my road bike. Very curious to see what all the fuss is about.
I use Crank Bro's on both my road and MTB with one pair of MTB shoes. I do road riding mostly but like the MTB shoes with a stiff soul because I can walk with them when I get off.
So I don't get told off by James I have all of them! Speedplay with longer axles for my Rourkie road bike Two sided XT - SPD one side, flat on the other for my touring bike Flat SKS pedals on my shop bike SPD SL on my static bike
MKS Urban pedals with Zefal nylon quarter clips keeps your foot in a fixed position. When riding to a run I use my running shoes. Otherwise I have 5 10 MTB shoes. Rigid soles super comfy to walk in. I have used clips. The above is lighter than my original SPD pedals. Vastly more flexible. Also safer in tighter urban cycling where motorist force sudden stops. Absolutely now downsides for your average drop bar cycling.
Been a Speedplay user forever …. Never experienced any of the “issues” raised …. Never oiled or greased one pedal on over a decade … I ride v big mileage on all my bikes - never had a w & t issue. Also - as an IM triathlete, the double sided system is the easiest I’ve used for speedy transitions.
NOTE on speedplays: the new wahoo pedals have now been updated with longer axle lengths available
Good point!
The variable axle lengths seem seem to be vaporwear. My last response from wahoo was "check with your local dealer", local dealers and fitters all say no word yet from Wahoo. Aftermarket ones are showing up on ebay already however....
Speedplay Zeros with a 65mm spindle are the only road pedals I can use in comfort, so it's a pity that Wahoo haven't made their pedals widely available with the longer spindles. I'm a big n burly lad, so I would be dubious about riding aftermarket titanium spindles . Hopefully some aftermarket manufacturers might start making stainless steel spindles for the new pedals soon.
@@germanhugger41 have you tried pedal extenders?
CRANK BROTHERS ??
The bike industry should change the name of clipless pedals to cleated pedals. There's a new generation of cyclists who has never seen or used a toe clip so they can't get over the concept that clipless pedals are actually pedals that clip in. Too much time is spent by everyone explaining the history of why clipless pedals have clips. It's time to eliminate the confusion. I've biked for over 40 years with toe clips and finally changed over to clipless pedals. I regret I didn't change over sooner.
I've biked almost four decades but gave up on toe clips in the first decade!
Not to mention that toe clips are really toe straps and cages, no clips involved
I have and will never reinstall my Campy pedals on my 40 year old classic. I have the shoes too!
In Dutch they are called “klik-pedalen” as in “click-pedals” because you click in.
Completely agree, I had toe clips ~40 years ago. That experience, well a particular experience involving a traffic light, sideway fall once stopped etc, made me hesitant to get 'clipless' when getting back into cycling again only about 3 years ago. Now I would not want otherwise. I'm riding two-sided SPD, very convenient and I feel 'naked' when on my other bike I use the flat side of my SPD / flat pedals
Big platform flat pedals are underrated
I've been a bike fitter in the US for 15 years. Absolutely positively agree with all this. Chapeau!
Great explanations. I’ve always used SDP. I recently found the PD-ES600 pedal. Single sided SPD, light weight, and a wide design. Can be a little tricky to clip into at first. The ability to walk out of the house and into the coffee shop without issue, and very little cleat maintenance, makes them perfect for me. No pain, hotspots, or excess fatigue.
Totally agree with this, i only use SPD also on my road bike. It’s also a bit cheaper to have the same setup on all my bikes.
Always rode with look pedals, now looking into switching to PD ES600 on my new all-road bike because it looks perfect for my use case.
Thanks for your feedback into this pedals, definitely going to try
@@Mrwitte95 I would use road pedals (SPD SL). Unless you plan on riding through traffic and stopping at red lights all the time... Just go for road pedals. Much better for that. You can also set up road cleats for bike fit, big bonus.
i did 1 ride on the es600 and returned them, devil piss product
@@lancercool1992why haha ive used them for years :)
Lately I use flat pedals with hiking shoes for touring and bike packing. No foot or whatsoever issues even on 180km+ distances/day. Despite multiple bikefit sessions my right knee is killing me if I use clipless for long distances.
You should get your leg lengths measured. Sounds like you may hage a discrepancy. My right leg is like a quarter inch shorter than the other one. Solved the knee pain problem with a shim under the clear.
Thanks Francis and James...I am an SPD guy..they happened to be the ones my shop recommended , and I love em ! I have em in all 3 bikes . road , gravel and MTB . I use a Shimano RX-8 shoe , with a very stiff composite sole. Peace
spd really should be on everything but a race rig. walking around in road shoes on a normal ride is so unpleasant.
Do you see any advantage to using SPD-SL for longer road rides over the SPDs? BTW I use SPDs on my road and gravel and am considering getting SPD-SL power meter pedals for the road bike. That would mean new shoes and cleats as well so a considerable investment 😃
Agree with this as I have the same setup as you. I have SPDs on both my road and gravel bikes and am also using the RX-8s. Great set of shoes!
@@rwil6969 I think its mostly around the shoes when it comes to comfort. I've done very long rides in both and usually my feet feel worse in my road shoes, but I think my rode shoes fit just a bit worse than my spd shoes.
I use Shimano SPD on my winter road bike and gravel bike (both with cages). They are one sided and the other side is a flat pedal. I find this particularly useful if I've wheel spun to a stop on a slippery hill.... it's much easier to get going again as quick cleat engagement is not vital. I use Shimano SPD-SL on my summer aero bike where this problem isn't really an issue and I find they provide better drive. Of course the SPD recessed cleats also make walking easier, but I carry around a pair of cleat covers in summer, which help and also protects your cleats.
Often disappointed by how dismissive some people are of flat pedals. GCN do the same thing. Proper flat pedals, not the rubbish ones you get free with a cheap bike, give you a huge platform and you stick to them like glue. The main issue people mention seems to be more related to the footwear than the pedals. Get a cycling specific flat shoe and the difference to clipless isn't that great IMO.
Agree, I go through periods using Shimano mtb spd so I can still walk, but now mostly stick with MKS Gordito (new wider version of Sylvan touring) with Restrap diagonal straps and Vans pro slip on, and have lots of grip and adjustability and movement and can get off the bike and do anything else.
Sticking to them like glue is tricky because you can't really dial in your foot angle. It's so hard to get comfortable when you can't just twist your foot a bit but have to pull it up and then put it back down.
I use SPD pedals on my carbon bike and flats on my steel one cuz that's my all-around biking I go do things with it and I need to walk around
MTB wide flats work fine for most cycling situations, majority of us are just cycling enthusiasts
elitism at its finest, many mamils not even pro gatekeeping the sport because the industry tells them what to like and dislike. proper sheep
One you didn't mention was the eggbeater. I started using these decades ago on a mountain bike and liked them so much I put them on my street bikes. The extra weight of a MB shoe is offset by the lightness of the pedal and with a recessed cleat, they are easy to walk in.
i love them too they are great on road and mtb
I run eggies on my gravel, road and mtn bike. Good stuff.
Shimano
PD-EH500 SPD is on my gravel bike, my commute isn't very long (10mins) so use the flat side for work and back. Then on days off work and I go out and about (Hamsterley and back etc) I use the clipless side. Best of both and no problems so far 😀👍
Got a gravel bike arriving in Spring (fingers crossed), the PD-EH500 seem like the best of both worlds for how I intend to use the bike.
Yep have those on one bike.
Had to switch from SPD-SL to Look Keo when I upgraded to my Favero Assioma DUO pedals. I agree that the SPD-SL is marginally better but after more than a year using Look Keo I can't say there's much difference. I can adjust the tension, the bearings in the Assiomas are great and the cleats are pretty much the same cost.
I was excited when Favero finally bought out an SPD-SL version of their pedals, but with the only option being an extra 5mm longer axle I stuck with the ones I've got.
My first road pedals are assiomos, seem pretty good was using SPD's before upgrading
Same experience for me. Although I find the Assiomas a bit harder to clip into. The cleats are around half the price of Shimano cleats though!
Same for me at first spd sl ultegra r8000 pedal, than assioma duo with look System. But it have to say that i like the ultegra pedal much more, the pedal feels much better for me the connection to the cleat feels more Solid and the cleats are much more durable and they cost the same here in germany. And clipping in is a bit easier with the ultegra pedal.
@@Neilz911 it's a real shame Favero weren't able to make the Duo-Shi without increasing the axle length so much. A few mm I could manage but they're 11mm longer than regular Ultegra pedals.
I have Assiomas, initially using the supplied Xpedo 6-float cleats, which would easily unclip during a sprint. I then bought some Look 4.5-float cleats, which were better, before settling on Xpedo 0-float cleats, which are better still. I still detect a slight bit of float.
I am not convinced that having no float is a bad thing; for, when I used to ride a mountain bike with shark-teeth pedals, my soles dug in and my feet remained planted. It's all in the initial setup methinks.
I don't know if its me but I absolutely love the sound of unclipping on a Speedplay. The sound is so satisfying.
Great vlog. I’m using XTR SPDs on my road bike. Which give a good platform with my XC9 shoes. Love that I can walk in them.
I still go out sometimes on my 80s Raleigh 531 racer. I’ve got the pedals I put on back then, which are Shimano but with the Look cleat system. I think they were the first Dura Ace pedals they did. And they are still going strong!
Years ago I started off with clips and toe straps. Once the first Look pedals came out I switched to them. Then knee problems started so I went with Time and loved them That was when I was 155lbs and early twenties. Now that I'm in my mid fifties it's race face Chester flat pedals all the way. It's party pace for me now. I may give spd a try when I get a chance to do the tour divide but most likely I'll stick with flat
I rode Look still for 5 years when everyone had switched to Time, just couldn't afford them.
The Chesters are very good pedals for the money. Good bearings, last a long time. Stay away from DMR, they're disposable junk, even the expensive models.
I've been using a 2-bolt system for a while now, and have settled with the SPD-style cleat on the Look 2-bolt pedals. And run them across all of my bikes, even the track bike. Shimano has a conversion plate to make a 3-bolt shoe accept the 2-bolt SPD pedal (however the newest version takes away the fore/aft option; but it also comes with a built in 'walking cleat' that I believe aids in foot stability on the pedal. I use the SPD system 1)because I buy my own pedals 2) because it allows me to use ANY pair of shoes with ANY bike for any purpose. Gravel, commute, errand, group rides, TTs, etc. etc....
Thanks to James and Francis BFTs, last summer I took up James's advice: pedals to dura ace spd sl's, shoes to Lake and G8 insoles, the result was transformative, comfort and pain free cycling🥳......the latter 2 items purchased from bicycle Richmond. Sound practical advice over the phone from James at the time too 👍👌
I have used Time since the late 80s, and have never had a problem. Switched to Time from Look after a knee op in 88. Back in the day I had titanium axels , but I found them too soft. Big difference when I switched back to steel.
I use the cheapest pedals from Time at the moment and have no problems. Cheap and cheerful and only cost a few euros more than buying new cleats.
Plus for me the easiest to set up the cleats.
Just my take on things.
yep pretty much bang on, SPD-SL for road bike, SPD for the gravel/MTB. Tried Speedplay a while back and did not like them so banged em on eBay but James is missing the worst thing about flat pedals! the times it swings around and smashes into your calf AKA Pedal gash.
Why all the hate for Speedplay pedals? The new pedal interface is a lot more stable and the cleats are so much easier to adjust, plus the float is without any resistance and they don't wear out if you maintain them properly.
Exactly !! No Shimano pedals on my Campag equipped bike !! That's why it's Look Keo for me. Great video .
Regarding the new Speedplay models from Wahoo, they do still come with the baseplate and shims. So you can move them backwards or forwards, the same as on the old model from Speedplay (I have both). Unless there’s an even older model with more adjustability that I’m not aware of!
Francis and James - very informative, as always. Currently I am using SHIMANO Ultegra R8000 SPD-SL for my road bike and SHIMANO XTR PD-M9020 for my gravel bike. During my search for road pedals I compared the SHIMANO 105, Ultera and Dura Ace models. I was able to find the Utegra pedals at a great price so that was my choice. Bottom line is that all the SHIMANO pedals are very good. Over the years I have used several different models of LOOK pedals and SHIMANO SPD pedals.
I'm not a beginner, but last summer I switched from Shimano to Time pedals and I love them.
I use SpeedPlay (not wahoo), one other advantage is that the only way out is to turn your foot. I never involuntarily unclipped ! But, I agree that what Wahoo has done by removing the axle lenghts from the options, and also the fact that you could service them (add grease) contrary to Wahoo's is counterproductive. I'm quite annoyed at what Wahoo has done with them.
1 other advantage of the Speedplay/Wahoo system, is the lower stack height over all the other systems ! Great for Criterium racers (although I'm not one of them).
Rookie rider here. Bike came with Look Keo Classics, and Izumi Pearl shoes that were luckily my size. They seem to work well. Better after moving the cleat as far back in the shoe as possible, per James' recommendation.
As a starting point for clipless pedals I think the shimano spd mtb or even their touring pedal (flat on one side) is ideal. I wasn’t confident about clipless but found the spd to be ideal and I starting with the spring at its weakest until I got used to it. I have yet ( don’t jinx it) to have a clipless fail/fall. They are great for commuting as you can almost walk normally in the shoes.
My first "strapless" pedals were Look delta style. I'm still using them on some of my bikes, but I'm shifting to Keo. Red cleats mostly, but giving gray a go. Favero Assioma power meter pedals come standard with the Keo-style system, and that is why I'm making the shift.
I use the SPD XT PD-T8000 hybrid pedal. Most days I'm just riding round town, they're nice and grippy.
Not keen on Speedplay, loves a Speedmaster! Top man James 😎
I noticed that, too. James has excellent taste for watches.
I have been using Shimano PD-7401 pedals since I built my Schwinn Paramount with Dura-Ace in 1991. When I acquired other road bikes I was able buy more PD-7401s at very reasonable prices. 30+ year old pedals still work great. I have not had any problems using the black cleats.
I like the Shimano SPD pedal (with a platform) because it is double-sided & I can wear bike shoes that I can walk in. When I am going for a short ride to the store I can easily wear any kind of shoe or sneaker because of the platform surrounding the cleat section. A win-win all the way around for me. In addition that metal cleat lasts longer & the tightness of the cleat section of the pedal is adjustable.
I wore Time ATAC mtb pedals commuting from 2000-2014. Not the same pair, probably went through a dozen pair. Easiest pedal entry ever.
Around 2000, Look had a road pedal CX-7s that could be adjusted closer to or further from the crank arms, within a 10-mm range. And their foot-tilt angle adjustment allows modification of the position from negative-3 to positive-3 degrees. I messed with them for a bit around 2005-2007. Been on Shimanos since then.
Used to use Shimano SPD-SL’s but never really got on with them so went to Look Keo Carbon blades & wouldn’t go back. Once you find the right blade tension you’re sorted. The older versions were prone to the rocking movement James talks about but the newer version I’ve had zero problems. I use the (devils work) fixed cleats & they are far from fixed IMHO. There is quite a bit of lateral movement in there which is good.
I moved to Speedplays from SPD-SLs this year and I've got on much better with them. Although I wish they weren't so expensive...
J&L make extended axles for the new speedplay paddels. Are of excellent quality. And my new speedplay paddels do have the for aft plate.
Also Sq-labs makes look keo compatible paddels with longer axles.
So, I just changed back to SPD SL (105) from the SP (M520) 4 days ago.... i had nasty fall and hospitalisation (head injury) in 2018 when my foot came out of the right pedal whilst accelerating (was out of the saddle)... I am a bigger rider (6 feet /83kgs)... just sharing my experience. Took a lot to get back to road shoes and spd sl.
I use flat pedals for short commutes to and from work with cycling trainers and if I’m doing more of a distance, shimano spd with giro Mountain bike shoes, works well with me
If you’re pulling out of Time Xpresso the reason why is the rear clip under side which mates with the cleat has developed a chamfer due to wear. Using dirty cleats accelerates this wear. I can put out over 1000 watts never unclipped yet especially considering 15 degrees of float on offer. I can fully service Xpresso pedals replacing to rear clip. I recently replaced the rear clip on a Xpresso 15 with a new Xpresso 2 donor pedal.
I started on a road bike with SPD pedals and never changed. I love the SPD pedals. They’ve never caused any issues and I would never consider another pedals system because they work well for me.
Shimano spds on mountain and road. Don't like having to worry about clipping in when dodging cars. Power grips on my cruising around bike.
I use SPDSL extended as per James advice, I also use SPDs with titanium 16mm spacers and pined flats on MTB.
Flat pedals for the win
Not exactly a pro rider, more of a keen amateur 😊 Have to say I’m a fan of the Look Keo Blades; look good & simple. I have never bought the “all out” Ti versions with ceramic bearings so cannot comment on those - the standard carbon pedals with 4.5 float cleat seem to be perfect for me 😁👍🏽
I use the Shimano SPD system on all my bikes
Run the SPD cross country pedal on my trail, gravell and cyclocross bikes
Use the new PD- E600 gravel pedal on my road and triathlon bikes due to the longer axle and more float than your standard Look cleated road pedals
Also use the multi angle release SPD cleats (silver) on my road and xc shoes
Crankbrothers eggbeater with their road adapter. This way I can use whatever three-hole road shoe I want without the slop of a mountain bike pedal sans-recess. I absolutely love the pedals! I have both road and mountain bikes, so the pedal system being the same between them is a huge plus.
I started using a cage, got a simple one from Decathlon, to check out if i actually like it, and works like a charm! I ride what is basically a touring bike , and i need a system that works with all kinds of shoes.
Great show mate. Both my bikes have Shimano XT PD M8100 XC SPD. One bike is a Berlin single speed street racer masher, the other steed is a All City Nature Boy SSCX built to send it in the forest. Blessings from Kreuzberg mate.
I went from keo to speedplay to shimano, I alway thought speedplay had good adjustment but it’s more than you need, speedplay does wear out so quickly, it needs oiling every time you come home. (Dry lube). Shimano is fit and forget, I got the wider ones and you can really tell the difference.
I still feel speedplay are the best for clipping in but for really light people like my wife she has a hard time pushing in to them. She finds shimano better with the pivot action much easier.
Like he says just stick with shimano they are the best.
Thanks for another great video. I am a bike fitter, but not as knowledgeable as James, I always manage to pick up a nugget or two of great information from these vids. This week was the existence of the SQlab pedals, which unfortunately do not appear on the US distributors website. I have had trouble sourcing longer axle pedals throughout the pandemic.
I'm all over the Shimano PD-EH500 dual platform, great on long rides clipped in also great as they are dual platform. I'd switch to SPD-SL if I started racing though I guess...
I got these and I like them very much. Pootle down the road in normal shoes or go further and clip in. Nice.
@@ollieb9875 i have them on my 3 bikes, road, singlespeed and gravel. When I get my race frame I'll get road cleats for sure, and another pair of shoes, of course.
I alternate between SPD-SL, SPD, and Crank Brothers MTB Flats. I run SPD-SL on my TT bike, never swap it out. My road bike I alternate between SPD-SL and SPD just because I like my SPD shoes a touch better but it depends on what I'm doing. My gravel bike alternates between the SPD and the MTB flats but it's mostly just up to whatever I feel like. I do find that trail running shoes on MTB flats (with the pins) provides more than enough stability and grip as well as makes hike-a-bike considerably easier.
I ride Shimano SPD pd a520 pedals and use Shimano SH-XC500 shoes. I have used SPD’s for the last 23 years and haven’t found any reason to change-I use them on my road, gravel and mountain bikes with a520 pedals on road and gravel bikes and M324 pedals on my mountain bike as I often use that as a general bike just to ride down the shops with flat trainers on-or even flip flops when on holiday.
The answer is Speedplay
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I use Crank Bro Candy 1 on my road bikes. I like having the mountain bike style shoe for ease of walking around at cafe stops. I am not a racer and not concerned about weight. I ride for fun and fitness, so the Candy pedals work great for me.
I’m quite disappointed in your comments about the Time pedal system. First off it’s the ONLY system that offers both lateral and rotational float. Also contrary to your comments it offers adjustable Q factor as well.
If you actually measure pelvic stability via a pressure mapping that this system generally fixes off center saddle sitting.
Lastly your comments about pre release. We’re attributed to the old cleat and pedal design and those issues have been remedied in the latest designs.
Shimano ME700 on everything. I ride MTB and cyclocross mostly, so i have SPD on my roadbike too. 👍 Makes walking to the coffee much nicer
Totally agree I had the look both soughts changed to Shimano 10 years ago cleats last forever just bought the another pair Dura Ace this time love the low stack height really does make a difference to my old knees 😀..
After SPD-SL all my bikes are now a TIME ATAC, which you didn't cover. It allows my foot to move ever so slightly inboard and outboard, depending on what I like on that day.
As a user of speedplay i do agree with a lot of the points, i tend to replace cleats every 3 months or so. But i'm just so used to using speedplay, and i love their engagement, and the looks. I've been using them since 2012, but i just don't get on with plastic cleats of other set ups, they wear out fast and then have terrible engagement after a surprisingly short whiles, where as speed play you might just get a weird feeling like rocking, almost as though the cleat feels loose, but that's it.
How on earth do you have to replace the cleats every 3 months? I'm seriously asking it, as I ride over 10s of thousands of kms with them and do not have a single issue.
@@ggrande8048 I never used to replace that often, maybe every 18 months when I was first on speed play, but you don’t realise how much the plastic on the pedal wears causing quite a loose feeling cleat. You get used to it so you don’t notice. Buy a new set of speed play pedals and cleats and you’ll be shocked at how different they feel. The c clip wears and creates more rocking than it should. A worn speed play cleat will still clip in and out fine and won’t come loose but won’t operate as designed
I've just switched my road bike to Shimano SPD pedals today. I was so tired of ruining SPD-SL cleats with even minimal walking and it means I will only need one pair of shoes for road/gravel so I can spend a bit more on my next pair.
MTB shoes are the best 😁
I hope that works out for you. I did the same, but once I started riding significant road miles I found the stable platform of a road shoe and pedal were a huge improvement for me.
Agree a 100% I've ridden since late 80's when look came out i used looks till one day i had to get shimano 9000 pedals i use a fixed cleat black when used look and red now with shimano I've never looked back the dura ace 90 and 9100 have worked flawlessly for the last 8 years even changed pedals on the wife's bike but she uses blue cleats
R8000 SPD -SL E for road, and EH 500 SPD for gravel. Perfect setup for me
The longer axel is a must for me. In the winter my cycling boots will hit the crank arm.
Spd for the win! Love this system.
Started with toe clips and straps a long time ago.
They were tricky for mtb hard to get in or out and dragged upside down if you missed soon switched to spd or" spuds"
Maybe clip less should be called strapless.
Time XC work well,good mud clearing.
I love bike fit Tuesdays. 😍
Didn't mention Eggbeaters. With four sided entry, they're very easy to get in and out of, very light, but not very durable. (rebuild kits are readily available though)
I use Crank Brothers on my road and MTB. The float on them allows some rotation of the foot. I like them because I use MTB shoes when I ride. I f I need to walk MTB shoes are more suitable.
Since I do triathlon I appreciate the convenience and form factor of speedplay....plus they're different and not the same old dull SPD.
Need to treat myself to a bike fit with James for sure game changer
Ideas for next bike fit: How to choose handlebar drops - dimension and drop shape
I still use the old style delta cleats and they work fine
I ride platform pedals with platform specific cycling shoes. 10,000km a year for the last 5 years. Give quality platform pedals and shoes a try. You'd be very surprised.
I use powertaps (which have a minor variant on the Look Keo cleat) on the road, and SPDs off road (ones with a cage around them on the MTB, and no cage on the 'cross bike). Horses for courses.
I've ridden mtb SPD pedals for 10 years then switched to a road pedals Assioma DUOs, so didnt have any option if i want power. Didnt really like it, way slower clipping in, no noticeable different otherwise, once the pedals are spinning around they were super hard to clip in. So i converted them to SPD Assioma DUOs, best decision!
I use spdr on my winter and turbo bikes. Moved over to them in the early 2000s after a plastic cleat snapped in a sprint. Have several sets of dura ace pedals and aa bag of cleats. Just a trial getting shoes that accept them.
Having used Time pedals for over 30 years I have to say these latest incarnation’s are by far the poorest. Carbon springs are weak and break easily and the cleats might as well be made from cheese. Switched to SPD-SL’s last year and in the words from a previous video “what have I been doing with my life” Great pedal system and despite my winter bike being Campag equipped they still work on there too…😉
Actually you have some inaccuracies. The latest designs have adjustable tension and have fixed many of the older issues that plagued Time. Also as the only pedal system that offers lateral float it tends to remedy off center saddle sitters and pelvic instability.
Since I stopped racing I've switched from SPD-SL to SPD on all of my bikes. I started with Shimano XT pedals but now prefer the Look X-Track pedals. I think they are a little wider, offering a little more stability.
Using SPD-SL. I did not realise there are available in an extended version. Thanks James!👍👍
Right now using Shimano M324 Spd/flat pedal as I am just learning to clip in and also commute
I have a pair of iSSi flip pedals on my Trek Domane. This allows me to wear normal street shoes when doing a more casual ride, or I can put my SPD equipped shoe for longer more serious rides.
SPD SL for road only, SPD for anything else, just picked up a pair of the Adidas velosamba SPD shoes for commuting/casual rides on the gravel bike!
I’ve tried look , time and speed play on my campag build. I’ve gone back to shimano and I don’t care if it’s mixed with campagnolo. Nice Speedy pro, looks nice on that strap.
I'm a look keo user but MTB is SPD and a agree with James I use the one with the cage around it for stability 😁
I’m fairly new to cycling. I put Look on bike and I’ve just changed from grey 4 degree float to black 0 degree float. I’ve been out 3 times and actually find them nicer. I hope I don’t get any knee trouble, I to old for any other troubles, 😂. Thanks for video.
SPD all the way! I use my bike for commuting and for 3-4 hour leisure rides on the weekends. I value being able to put my feet down at red lights, and walk around shops and cafés without clip-clopping like a sodding horse.
They call this guy James, or Jimmy, I think? Brilliant guy, great advice everytime! This guy is a rock star
James...the rain man of bike fitting.
I use a shimano spd road style pedal. Works perfect for commuting or touring. I know I’ll have to upgrade to spd-sl when I upgrade my bike.
Use Keywin pedal system . Light ,affordable, low stack heights , low maintenance, can get different axle lengths
I feel like James would be a perfect NPC in Zwift. Great video Francis
I use Shimano XTR pedals, with Bont Vaypor Shoes very practical since you can walk normally
I've been using crankbrothers candy's on my road bike for my first few years of riding clipless. But I just got my first gravel bike, so the candy's will be moving over there and I'm finally upgrading to SPD-SL for my road bike. Very curious to see what all the fuss is about.
I use Crank Bro's on both my road and MTB with one pair of MTB shoes. I do road riding mostly but like the MTB shoes with a stiff soul because I can walk with them when I get off.
So I don't get told off by James I have all of them!
Speedplay with longer axles for my Rourkie road bike
Two sided XT - SPD one side, flat on the other for my touring bike
Flat SKS pedals on my shop bike
SPD SL on my static bike
MKS Urban pedals with Zefal nylon quarter clips keeps your foot in a fixed position. When riding to a run I use my running shoes. Otherwise I have 5 10 MTB shoes. Rigid soles super comfy to walk in. I have used clips. The above is lighter than my original SPD pedals. Vastly more flexible. Also safer in tighter urban cycling where motorist force sudden stops. Absolutely now downsides for your average drop bar cycling.
SPD for me mtb and road
My first clipless were Keewins! The race version... very tight... loved them but took the longest time to learn how to clip in and out.
Swapped from spd-sl to speedplays paired with RC902s and have no regrets.
Been a Speedplay user forever …. Never experienced any of the “issues” raised …. Never oiled or greased one pedal on over a decade … I ride v big mileage on all my bikes - never had a w & t issue. Also - as an IM triathlete, the double sided system is the easiest I’ve used for speedy transitions.