853 as mid-level? In what world. 853 is like the highest steel in reynolds line up. Only one higher end is stainless steel 931 & discontinued 953. 921 is the stainless equiv of the 725 from what the info says.
I'm an old boy and still have a great love for steel roadbikes made from Columbus tubing. Nothing beats steel for its supple and comfortable ride it provides.
I recently resurrected my 1987 Panasonic Team America (Columbus SL). Instead of going vintage, I stripped it and had it powdercoated; I updated the components because I planned for it to be a workhorse. It has exceeded all of my epxectations.
I'm 60 years old and steel felt great when I was younger, but when I was 26 years old and racing Cat 5's, I switched to a Cannondale AL frame. Yes, it was bone jarring but the efficiency of the frame was unmatched by steel. By about 2007 I was fortunate enough to be able to afford a Ti frame and once that happened, I've never looked back. I currently ride a Lynskey road and a Moots gravel. That said, I do wonder what a modern carbon frame might feel like. I've never owned one. One of the things which Ti offers, at a price, is a custom geometry...not sure if that's an option on a carbon bike. At my age and after three back surgeries, an off the shelf frame geometry doesn't fit me terribly well. I played the extreme upward stem angle game for about a decade before taking the plunge on a custom geometry. This is also something from which I'd ever go back....the head tube on my Moots is quite a bit taller than it would be on a default frame BUT my stem angle looks very normal. Yeah, there's LOTS of money involved in all of this but heck, I've been riding since I was a kid and this is my passion. At this stage of my life, it all seems like money very well spent.
I have been looking at my first titanium build, but gave up after spending many evenings calculating on geometry, measuring my other bikes. I need to try a titanium bike and like it, then adjust to my liking before I pull the plug. because I know how carbon frames feel. Never tried one I disliked. but titanium was too expensive to just buy without properly testing exactly what I would be buying.
Carbon frames are really good at dampening small vibrations from the road, but it's not really that big of a difference. Titanium is personally my favorite, match it with carbon wheels, carbon post, and carbon bars the difference is pretty much impossible to feel. The real advantages to carbon is it can be incredibly stiff, but that's really only relevant if you're racing at higher levels. Personally I'd stick to Titanium unless you have the money to have 2 bikes
I have an aluminium winter bike with a carbon fork (Orro) and a carbon fibre (good bike) framed Specialised Aethos. Frame choice does make a difference but the most important element of compliance/comfort for me is tyre size and tyre pressure.
You forgot to mention one of the greatest differences between metal frames and carbon frames: Carbon frames are basically "plastic" that is set in layers of carbon fibre (with a crystal-like molecular structure), and epoxy resins (a polymer compatible with carbon fibre that also needs to crystallize to harden). In conjunction, this is a toxic material, hard to work with, and with little possibility to recycle, thus not very good for the environment. The materials used are expensive and the process of frame making is complex. On the other hand, you have alu frames, made out of a metal that is possibly the most abundant material on the earth crust, cheap, easy to resource, very easy to recycle, non toxic, and absolutely fool proof when it comes to handling, cutting, bending, etc. The difference of weight is minimal on high end frames, so I don't see the point in usung carbon frames. Aluminium is far better and much safer.
producing aluminium from bauxite is not eniviroment friendly at all, but once you did that, the process is much better, and recycling has very low carbon footprint.
IMO, any material can make a great frame. I have had great steel, carbon and Ti frames. I haven't had an aluminum (sic) frame ride as well as other options, but aluminum can be perfect for racing as it's cheap, stiff and tough. Setting aside ride quality, I focus more on durability and toughness these days. This is making Ti and steel ever more appealing to me. My favorite current frame is the carbon/Ti Seven I have: beautiful and tough with a great ride quality. Still, my carbon Giant road bike rides incredibly well and was a lot cheaper than the Seven. Overall, I'd say carbon is best for performance road, steel is best for touring or tough gravel and aluminum is best for inexpensive hardtails and crit bikes you don't care about damaging. Ti and Ti-mix is best for all around dream bikes you plan to keep for a while.
Right-I’m on my titanium frame for more than two decades now-just have to renew the groupset every few years. Titanium doesn’t wear out,it stays the same ride quality it had when it was new. It doesn’t rust,it’s easy to clean and you don’t get dents on the tubes. It can be a problem when the tube walls are too thin,because then you are more likely to overheat the weldings. It’s not easy to paint titanium-you need to prepare it the right way to make the paint stay,but it’s possible
Nothing stands the test of time like a Titanium bike. It’s so damn expensive to produce due to the expense of the metal. Moots would have paved the way in the past if was not for costs and material… That Serrota is a one-off a kind ride. 👌
Riding a carbon Tarmac SL4 but it’s not anywhere near as good as my old aluminium CAAD9 which easily remains the best bike I’ve ever ridden. Thanks for all the content.
@@BrianRPaterson Hi Brian, I’m in the UK sadly so it’s a different Andrew Brown. I was fortunate enough to own a red Colnago made from Columbus SL back in the early 90s. That was a beautiful bike and was pretty fast…despite my lack of ability.
@@AndrewBrown-em3ti Hi Andrew, I have a Colnago Master made from Columbus SL. It's in the process of being restored. Beautiful bike. I will say that groupsets have come a long way however!
@@AndrewBrown-em3ti The plot thins! I still have a CAAD4 XS800 cross bike with a Silk Road Headshock. It's obsolete, but a lot of fun to ride. Especially on bad roads, where the shock and room for wider tyres (35mm) make all the difference. Cheers
a carbon gravelbike / bikepacking bike sounds fun but in reality go for aluminium. the amount of times a rock has hit the frame and i genuinly fear a broken frame is not worth it. i would rather have a nice aluminium frame with a high end wheelset and nice finishing kit than a medium priced carbon bike with cheaper parts (3000 euro)
Thanks for the video. I've got 3 steel, 1 alloy, and 1 carbon road bike. All the bikes have their good and not so good points which go beyond the material that they're built from. What I've experienced is that the way a steel bike with a steel fork seems to communicate what the road surface and "feel" in a very linear way. That makes for being able to not get surprised often times with sketchy conditions. The way the carbon and alloy bike for me tend to go from about a 2 to 10 way faster in a surprising way than the steel bikes if the conditions turn to crap. The carbon bike surprised me when I first got it because of how muted the road feels when on it when the roads are half way decent. The bike feels "slow" until I remember to look at the computer. It's a very different experience for me. The alloy bike has it's own feel. It transmits shock more than the other 2 materials but isn't objectionable on most rides. The geometry of 2 steel and the alloy bike are quite close. The carbon bike is setup different so It's not a fair comparison. I think that the steel fork plays a much bigger part in the ride than many give it credit for. just some rambling.
Much appreciated. Newbie here doing her research as I’m hearing steel is for a much smoother ride vs how the body absorbs much more with aluminum and carbon
@@xviiibestarot if you use tubeless tyres at the lower pressures they work with, and slightly wider tyres now recommended 28-32mm rather than the 23-28mm of old) with modern rims of 23-25mm inner width vs older 19mm.... ....then this will give you a bigger improvement in ride quality than aluminium will be able to take away again. I'm surprised to read that alloy transmits vibration but not change in conditions. If it isn't change in timbre of the vibe that communicates change in surface, then what does?
@@xviiibestarot I have carbon, alum. And steel bikes.steel last forever and is easily repaired. Aluminum is good too. I've had a lot of carbon bikes . They all broke frames. I ride daily 40 or more miles on gravel. Steel frames on road and gravel for me. I want to ride home not carry broken bikes. Ride several , you'll know what feels right.
@@xviiibestarot Its complete nonsense though, all this stuff is imagined and you can prove it by putting people to a blind test where they can no longer identify which bike they are on.
I REALLY appreciate that comment at the end where he mentions that if your considering A Ti frame don’t go for the lower end if budget is a concern but rather go for a higher end steel. Very helpful, thank you. My budget was very low and I went for an all-a rounder gravel road Kona Rove DL and it’s a nice comfortable bike.
Great video , James is spot on with his advice 👍 Recently purchased a Fairlight Secan with Reynolds 853 tubing, first steel bike and I’m amazed how comfortable it is. 38mm slicks , GRX 810 x2 and It’s rolls along nicely on the the UK roads. Another bonus is it looks soo nice 👌
Your 38mm tyres will be making a significant contribution to comfort there, if you're using appropriately adjusted pressure eg by SRAM tyre pressure recommendation tool. I'll assume you're comparing with previous bikes that also had wider tyres, but you don't say.
Great overview. For me, Road bike is Carbon, Mountain/Gravel are Aluminum. My choices are a result of what was available/appropriate at the price I was willing to pay. For me, mountain/gravel usually always includes travel by car, various car racks, and generally a rougher environment, more aligned with metal. Road bike is a less harsh overall environment, where weight, compliance, and electronic group support were influencers. All good, really nice to have options!
Totally agree. I know of several MTB friends who had their carbon frame crack. Alu is only a few hundred grams heavier but it will not break and cost at least 1000usd less. Money you can spend on other lighter components.
I have an Enigma Excel frame bought a year ago. It is 6Al4V titanium, made in the UK. Absolutely love the ride quality. When they say titanium zings, it sure does. Wonderful ride quality on our poor quality roads. And I had a shoe fit at James' shop. Well worth the money as it makes cycling much more enjoyable
I have a bamboo bike - an AluBoo made in Vietnam, they also had another range simply called Boo. Sadly the maker of these bikes left Vietnam and I don’t think they’re in production anymore. The ride, to me, is very similar to a steel frame , I had always ridden steel frames (531 and some newer variant ) and couldn’t abide the hard vibrations from aluminum framed bikes (I test rode one long long back, late 1980s, and just walked away from it, maybe- hopefully, they got better). I’m planning to bring my aluboo back to the UK in the near future, am hoping it’s adjusts just fine, but, if it doesn’t, I would probably find myself another steel frame to ride, maybe carbon, not sure - cost dependent! Also have to think about winter versus summer rides!!! When you cycled Vietnam - you should have dropped into James’ shop, certainly the best shop in hcmc at that time!
I ride an aluminum gravel bike (Trek Checkpoint) almost all of the time, and maybe I just don't know any better, but I really like it. I've used it for gravel riding (go figure), commuting, road rides, and touring, and it's performed brilliantly at everything. This is the first aluminum bike I've ever had, and I honestly haven't noticed much of the harsh ride quality that people often ascribe to aluminum frames, even though I'm riding this thing on 32mm road tires at 100psi. I'm pretty convinced by now that a high-quality aluminum frame is probably vastly preferable to many carbon frames, and that you can get that high-quality aluminum frame for about the same price as a crappy carbon one.
Love my Checkpoint have over 20000 k”s on it now love it. But thinking my next bike would be Bombtrack hook ect22 🤔 for no other reason just like the look of it 😋
There's really no reason to put 100 psi in 32c tires. Whether you're running tubeless or tubes... even if you weigh 300 lbs. Try running less than 70 psi. Don't take my word for it. Have a look around.
Have been riding steel, alu and carbon frames. The video is on point and according to my experience. Steel has a lovely ride quality and it feels like a spring winding up under your pedalling input. Alu is quite sterile instead, it feels flat and rather liveless, but it's much lighter and stiffer than steel. Therefore it's definitely more suitable for racing. Carbon feels firm as alu yet responsive and compliant as steel, and it's therefore by far my preferred material.
@@playmoreguitar5393 so if my low-end Ti frame already comfy and responsive (compared to my steel bike), would a high-end one 10 times more responsive and comfier? (since it cost 10x) I doubt that
I'm a carbon frame fan. Nice rounded tube profiles though, I'm not so keen on the aero, dropped seat stays kinda thing. Oh, and is that James' daily parked outside? No, not the Mini, the cheeky little blue shopper bike which I'm guessing it's a steel frame 😊 Great content as always guys!
alu for the mtb, carbon for the weekends, steel for the every day, and actually, you can tell the difference between the differences in compliance, stiffness, the degrees of "transmission" of the ground of each one. nice video
I have a vintage (2001ish) Lemond Tourmalet in 853 Steel that I love the feel of. I've done many centuries on that bike and still felt great at the end of the day. I also have a 2016 Trek Madone that is most likely aluminum that is comfortable, but not as comfortable as the Lemond.
I'm lucky enough to have a Curve Belgie (titanium) and the ride is amazing - so comfortable but so fast! I race on alloy frame with a geometry for crit racing but I'd happily do (and have done) long days on it - it's that good.
Onya Mate! Also a Curve ride here, but I'm on a Ti Kevin. Compared to my Focus CX the thing that still amazes me is the way I feel after a big day out. The compliance on nasty gravel is next level goodness.
I’ve got 3 different bikes made from 3 different materials. Alloy, Ti and Carbon. For an everyday bike I have a titanium bike. It’s durability is superb. Don’t worry about dings, scratches, corrosion and it is just beautiful to look at.
I have a cheap Far Eastern Ti frame, and an expensive one. And I’m not sure that I can tell the difference between them in terms of the ride. But what I like most about them is their durability and finish. In terms of their strength, I smashed one off the roof of my car. A carbon frame would have been scrap, whereas the Ti frame was 100% fine. And the finish on a Ti frame just looks fantastic, whether it’s a day old or a decade. Scratch it, and all you need is a scotch pad to buff the scratch right out. I wish I could do that with my car.
Interesting. I just ordered a titanium frame from Ora in Taiwan. Everything I've read suggests Ora's work is fairly good. I guess we'll see how it turns out.
I have owned all 4 frame types and vote Titanium. One big advantage you didn’t mention was it essentially lasts forever - won’t rust or corrode and excellent fatigue properties. I recently bought a top of the line Litespeed T1SL and it was actually a bargain compared to even a mid-level carbon bike. Made in USA (same state where I live) by a company that more or less started the Ti bike business so knows how to make them right.
My dad had a really nice titanium Serotta Classique.... the head tube just cracked apart (the tube itself, not the welds). Doesn't rust or corrode, sure, but I don't buy the fatigue argument.
@@neilashton9459 sadly that company went under so no warranty, and it would be impossible to prove that it wasn't normal wear and tear. After that experience I just would not ever go titanium again.
@@vectura5480 Are you sure about that? Serotta is absolutely still in business. I'd reach out if it's still worth it for you. I ride with some folks who bought Serotta custom frames recently as two years ago.
@@roblucchetti2993 I believe the company originally was dissolved, then basically restarted a few years ago. Unfortunately it's too late now, we've stripped the bike down, scrapped the frame, and sold all the parts that were worth anything.
i Ride a CAAD 12. It's my first ever road bike. I didn't have a lot of money so i looked around on RUclips and on the web for the best chois and the CAAD 12 came highly recommended. Glad to see James likes CAAD. Jimmy Also have a Cannondale so i think i made a good perches : p
My tourer is all steel and my gravel bike is steel with carbon forks. The tourer is very comfy but heavy. The gravel bike is a joy - you mentioned Fairlight - I'm thinking of building a 'fast tourer' from one of their frames. I'm no racer and I think this level of steel frame is ideal for this - anything racier would be too fragile for the knocks of touring. I'm really enjoying these videos and have learned a lot - thanks guys.
Bought a steel Fairlight frameset last year which i built up, huge amount of sizing options, lovely ride quality and beautifully put together all for a very reasonable price……about to buy a bit of Tom Ritchey steel soon. love my 2006 Kinesis XCPro2 aluminium with carbon stays cross country mtb too. Have ridden carbon and enjoyed those bikes but keep on going back to metal.
I have two aluminium frames; an old Dolan Prefissio and a Condor Italia RC (ride characteristics are night and day) and two steel frames; an old Gios made out of Dedacciai Lite and a Donhou made out of Columbus HSS (again, ride characteristics are night and day). James is right - not all carbon/aluminium/steel/titanium frames are equal - understand what you're buying!
I ride all 4 but don't own a steel frame anymore. That said, I'm glad the point was made about not all frames made with the same material are created equal! The builder has more to do with the process than the material, selecting the right tube dimensions for the rider. IMHO, you're better off with a high-end aluminum frame than a low-end run-of-the-mill steel frame, or a high-end steel frame over cheap titanium. With the CAAD series, its among the best production aluminum frames you can buy from mass production...there are others like the Mason Bokeh that uses Italian Dedacciai aluminum which is top shelf. You can also make carbon super stiff or super flexy, the same with all the other materials...it comes down to the builder and the schedule (tube dimensions) that are chosen for the frame. I was actually expecting a different approach to this video, but I'm glad the most important aspects were touched on, and I'll end with "Steel is real.....when its made by a real frame builder" Not all steel is created equal!
Got back into cycling about 4 years ago because of gravel, I bought a cheap aluminium bike, a kona rove, base model. Found it worked ok, agree with vibration feedback, my arms after certain rides were quite worn. A year ago I upgraded to a bombtrack beyond, a bike more at the rowdy end of gravel. Steel frame and forks and I love it. I grew up with steel as the main bike frame material so it felt quite natural to chose steel. My bike is a bit on the weighty side but then it is also meant for more demanding bikepacking trips as well. Bombtrack are about to release an after market carbon fork for the model I have, which I'm hoping to buy, so I can cut down on a bit of weight. I'm also going 1x so a tiny bit more weight gone there as well. Would like at some point to buy na endurance bike, also made of steel, aesthetically nothing beats the look of a steel frame either, probably showing my age a bit there!
I have been fortunate enough, assuming like most others, I have ridden and raced various frames of carbon, aluminium, ALU/carbon mix and now steel (Quirk Cycles). By far my favourite bike is my Quirk (granted I was able to afford it) but it started with a fit from James and ended with Rob. Best ride and comfort!
Last year I replaced my carbon DeRosa with a aluminium Palace 3c and definitely think the ride quality is better, (especially over longer distances.), weight is slightly less, though components have been upgraded. Interesting to note that Bowman were suggesting I buy a 56cm frame, but after watching and listening to many Bike Fit Tuesdays, opted for the 54cm, which "I think" fits very well. Oh, also now running narrow bars!! Keep up the good work :-)
@@jonburnell532 Following the reviews I was really pleased when I received the frame, and it's built up into a lovely bike. Will have to take care of it as I won't be getting any spares anytime soon!!
One of the best videos produced. Informative and educational. I owns and ride all 4 materials and I totally agree with everything that was said about their properties.
Just bought a Fairlight Strael and also have a carbon and an aluminium bike and the first few rides have blown me away. Considering getting rid of the carbon and just using the Strael all year round. Beautiful bike to ride (for the type of riding I do anyway)
I love the way that when you move onto steel, there is a Raleigh 20 outside the window. :) I ride a carbon road bike, aluminium MTB and CX bikes, and a steel fixie. And I really want a bamboo bike. :)
Currently riding aluminum, it's a bit stiffer than my old steel frame, but that also makes it a lot easier to accelerate, so the stiffness has pros and cons, just get a good saddle and thicker bar tape.
I'd like a better range of experience to say more definitely, but think aluminium probably has more zing than steel and it's too often spun only as a negative in commentary. A sort of get-up-and-go that makes you want to ride fast, so you need to pace yourself. But you can come back from a long ride tempted to hold the bars funny, because your hands have had enough!
First road bike on my return to road cycling was a B’Twin Ultra 720AF, aluminium frame and it really did transfer road buz and vibration, but was quite light and fast. Changed that for a carbon Specialized Roubaix Expert which is still my summer road bike. I have a Ti hardtail and a Ti gravel bike-both at the lower end of the price scale. I have nothing to compare either of them to but will say that the gravel bike does ride very smoothly-it’s a Planet X Tempest.
Great video! Learnt allot there. I was led to believe that most titanium frames came from the same far Eastern factories and then were branded which essentially accordingly which led to the price differences. I have just purchased a steel frame Genesis Equilibrium which I am yet to ride as I am waiting on a couple of parts. But very much looking forward to riding it. Although I rate carbon frames I have concluded that I essentially can't afford what I would consider to be worth having - I say that in regards to allumium frames where I have formed the opinion that if you have let's say 2k to spend on a bike - buy the alluimuim frame and build it with high quality parts and components as a carbon bike in that price point is probably not any better. Great video!!! 👍
Most frames are made in far Eastern factories, regardless of the material. With steel and ti, you can find any number of boutique builders making frames in the country of their origin. Custom carbon is a little more rare.
I have a Sage Titanium gravel bike which is built by Lynsky. It’s my first titanium bike after 47 years of riding. The ride quality is everything it’s advertised to be. It’s lively and compliant to the point of being buttery smooth. James is right. They are expensive but they’re also a lifetime bike. They don’t corrode. The fatigue life is longer than mine will be and if someone drops something on your on your top tube in a train, it won’t dent!😂 It’s worth the extra expense.
20 years ago I built up a road bike on a Ti frame, using mostly Campy and Shimano components. On the suggestion of someone I bought the frame from a US-based company called Habanero, whose owner claimed that the frames were made in China by a high-end aerospace company that knew what it was doing, and that he had visited the plant himself to verify this. I did some research and apparently these were good frames, not super high-end like a Seven, Merlin or Lightspeed but certain high quality. It cost $700 back then and now sells for $1400. When I got the frame it seemed really well made, which a LBS that helped me build up the bike agreed with, and once completed I found the bike to be super responsive, fun and comfortable to ride and rock solid, if maybe a bit noodly on tough climbs, but everything I'd heard about Ti bikes like how "springy" it felt and how it absorbed road roughness well. 20 years and well over 10,000 miles later and the frame is basically as good as new. I'm certainly not a super serious rider let alone racer but I used to average around 1000 miles a year and have done centuries in it without issue. Has anyone else heard of this company and is familiar with their frames and if so what do you think of them and how do they compare to the big names?
I had Habanero Cycles build up a Team Issue frame for me in 2012, with an Ultegra 6700 group set. The frame set cost around usd1000 at the time. This has been my primary road bike over the last 12 years. It seems like new and is exactly what I had hoped. I was looking for a very long-term bike and I wanted reasonably light weight. Ti fit the bill perfectly. The frame I chose was one of the last models with a quill stem. Quills seem so practical and I also like the very classic appearance. I added a Brooks B17 saddle and leather tool pouch. Classic looks, modern performance (for 10 spd, rim brakes) and I expect it to last forever. I would do it all over again if I lost this bike.
My order would be: 1. aluminium: affordable, light and stiff. 2. titanium: more durable and comfortable, but more expensive. 3 steel: nostalgic, comfortable. But a good, light steel frame will be expensive. 4. carbon. Because why? And also because of problematic sustainability and recyclability. And I don't like the looks of carbon. I currently mostly ride a (cheap) titanium bike. Love it. Although it probably feels a lot like aluminium. The high quality steel bike I rode before that was even nicer. But thin walled (highly butted) steel frames are vulnerable.
I ride a Lynskey GR300 internal cabling brushed finish etched graphics Shimano Di2 GRX 1x. Purchased new in 2020 and I love it!! Hand made in the USA by a company that has been making titanium bikes for a ver long time, read the history of the company on their website. Absolutely amazing ride and never worry about rocks, rust, or rough roads. First ride blew me away on the first ride and I am sold on titanium.
Confirms my choice in custom build Field steel bike, using steel from the city of steel……. at 6”6” you can’t get off the shelf to fit properly so this is an investment but worth it. Going for brazed weld for a smoother finish to tig….can’t wait for this bike…!!
what no one talks about with carbon fiber is micro fractures that you can not see but that can build up over time and create sudden catastrophic failure.
As a 46 year old who has ridden lugged Steel, Carbon, and Aluminum, I completely agree. If I had a lot of money, I'd get a titanium frame. I have a old lugged carbon LOOK, and an aluminum Orbea. Thank you.
Have all 4 each have their own qualities. Steel Bianchi is Columbus genius 26 years still rides great.Treated with fisholene at about 18 months,redone after repaint 2008. No rust.
Thanks for a very informative video. I ride a Litespeed titanium. My frame is 21 years old, and pardon the cliche, but it looks as good as new. I do lust over steel frames too.
Another great vlog gents 👏 the great thing here is that the consumer has the choice, its arguably better than its ever been. Do check earlier FC vlogs with Quirk bikes......what an amazing place to see.....even better to work in !
I'm a steel road bike frame enthusiast for sure. Dad built me up my first road bike in 1987. I got back into it about 13 yrs ago. Started rounding up old abandoned back alley bikes, pawn shop and second hand store bikes, etc. I learned a lot, building up restored projects and building gnarly singlespeeds, whatever. I now have 5 roadbikes of my own that all have my subtle custom touch. One is a totally original early 70s Peugeot, steel. I have an 80's Miyata that I've converted, very nicely, to singlespeed. It's very fast, 52:16, if you are. I've built a homemade rear wheel cover that looks as good as any. Steel. My FUJI is a nice example of a mid 80's roadbike. All Japanese, TANGE steel as well as a Kuwahara touring bike I use for winter. Steel. I also have a PINARELLO, about 12 yrs old. Carbon of course. It's amazing as you can imagine, modern Ultegra set, new Continental GP 5000 tires. Love it. But I still ride the FUJI more.
Recently Went from a 20 year old aluminum Pinarello frame to a 2016 Diamondback podium Equipe frameset with all the same 11 speed super record group/wheels/tires/bars/saddle. Only parts changed were seat post and stem. it’s truly a test of the framesets So far I’m impressed with the ride and stiffness of the carbon,the front end is so stiff. I had become immune to a noodly 1” headtube over the last 19 years. When I am out of the saddle the new bike feels rock Solid. And soaks up bumps that were pretty noticeable on an alloy bike.
I have an Argon 18 carbon frame. We have some of the roughest roads here in Eastern Canada and, honestly, the frame is amazing, with the right tire set-up (I'm using a GP5000), you'd think you were on smooth tarmac.
I have a little bit of everything. The gem is my '94 steel Marin Redwood. It had about a 15 year vacation due to back/neck problems, but I had it rebuilt in '18. Fast, durable and incredibly versatile. This bike will outlive me, granted spare part will be available...
I’ve got a 2008 CAAD9 in the same colour. Not my main road bike anymore but it’ll be with me forever. Enve 1.0 fork, Chorus 11, Corima tubular wheels. 6.9kg ready to ride. I have also got a 56cm CAAD5 that needs a home though!
I never knew *stainless* steel was an option(?). Corrosion from sweat has been a problem that has followed me throughout, but the addition of internal cable guides has helped to facilitate the "wipe down". My current ride is (Lynskey) titanium with a polished finish' problem solved. I also powdercoated a 1987 Columbus SL frame and updated the components. Steel is for Sundays.
I’ve had a stainless steel bike for 10+ use that’s gotten heavy use. I’ve used it in rain, fog, and in day time - not once has it rusted. I do, however make sure to wipe it dry after it’s exposed to water. Love the way the bike handles on road, and dirt, it’s versatile, and dampens vibration, making it easy to respond swiftly when needed.
Titanium - I would say carbon as well but since the Ti bike arrived the Colnago hasn't been out of the kitchen - game changingly good to ride especially if you want a sofa on wheels
The Cannondale was not alone in blurring the line between aluminum and carbonium - we sold Cervelo from 2004 and the aluminum Soloists (that were also ridden in the Tours) rode fantastic (i.e. not harsh) as well. I'm sure that there others. Good job James in pointing out that Asian Ti is different, that there is is point where Ti is too pricey and steel is fine and that some aluminum can be substituted for carbon. Good vid Francis. Cheers from frostbitten Canada.
Riding a Ritchey Logic road frame. Sure it is a bit heavier ; however love the comfort and feel of the bike. As I ride long distance and don't race this is more important to me than lightweight performance.
Fantastic overview of frame materials and construction, James and Francis, thanks and more please, 'tho James is breaking my heart with his dismissal of chrome moly steel. I mean, we all thought we were the coolest in the Seventies when we got BMX bikes with chrome moly frames. And I even had a plated chrome moly frame on my CYC Stormer, so you know I was styling back in the day. It was a moment and it was fun.
i started on a carbon XC bike, went over a aluminium trail bike and now arrived at a steel enduro bike. All of them were / are hardtails. i can happily report that i love my steel frame.
3:03 Engineer here. Aluminium and Titanium (usually an Aluminium alloy with Ti) will crack though, steel not so much. 12:11 what you refer to "road buzz" falls under the field of 'vibroacoustics.' Depending on shape, tapering (etc.), and metal you get different "tones." Steel attenuates higher, which leeds to lower being passed. Those naturally feels nicer to us humans. Also: SS will eventually rust, it just takes longer. Seal it from the inside, and apply a coat on the outside and you're good.
My main steed is a Seven - titanium. I also have a Co-Motion touring bike (Pangea) - Chromoly, a Co-Motion tandem (Java) - Chromoly, a foldable Bike Friday (Pocket Rocket Pro) - Chromoly, and a fully rigid MTB Niner single speed converted to Rohloff IGH - Scandium. I may buy a carbon fiber frame someday, although I think the feel of steel and titanium can't be beat. I'm also an older rider who doesn't race so maybe not. Good video, guys!
Currently converted over to Ti, love it. Not the lightest, but robust and will last a long time! My Alu experience was a Cannondale CAAD10 Track and I fucking loved it!! But sadly had to sell it. Don't mind steel and I hate carbon fibre!
I've an aluminium Cube cross race 2013 model 10 speed ultegra. Great off and on road, the geometry seems to fit me perfectly and for road use 40 mm Donnelly gravel at 50 psi so comfortable. Hand-built Columbus Zona framed audax bike made to measure CF forks, handles like a wet noodle. 58/ 59cm for 185 cm me. Can't comment on titanium or CF. Geometry and fit is king IMO.
Cannondale did make some fantastic frames with absolutely stunning paint jobs back in the day. I think my favourite was a purple/dark blue metallic fade. Sounds naff but was gorgeous in the flesh.
My daily ride is Reynolds 531 steel (1985) race bike is custom formed 631 (1988) steel, and mountain bike is a mix of 753 and 631 tubes (1991). Go Bilenky Cycle Works Phila PA
I’m on a Mason Bokeh. Dedacciai triple-butted Aluminium frame and it rides sublimely. Would image whatever the frame is made of - be it Alu, Carbon, Steel or Ti - quality materials + quality design + quality craftsmanship = quality ride!
I am about to ride a new Moots RCS ti frame. I've followed Moots for the better of part fo 20 years and am now about to realize my dream of owning one!!
I have a few steel bikes. One of which is a surly troll I rode around the world. Had the rear triangle on the driveside dropout brazed in Argentina, welded in Canada and I rewelded it at a road construction camp with a arch welder and splinted with jubilee clips so I could finish my trip up to Prudhoe Bay and it made it. My carbon road bike however was found to have a 75% cracked fork head tube just before doing a massive descent after just 4000 miles of road riding. I think I'll stick with steel or titanium. Great topic thanks guys
Recyclability and other environmental effects should be a major factor. Steel, aluminum and titanium can be relatively easily recycled and may last a lifetime. They also can be repaired. I still sometimes ride a steel bike from 1986, a heavily modified Rockhopper, today. They each have advantages and disadvantages with respect to extraction and processing (ie aluminum takes huge amounts of electricty to make). Carbon fiber is fragile for the bike use case, not amenable to easy repair, which is odd since it’s basically a very durable resin plastic binding indestructible fibres. CF bike frames will sit in landfill leaching resins as they break down (for centuries?) As Douglas Coupland once wondered, “Where now are those ski boots I had in the 1970s?”
yes that is supposed to say Titanium at 9:32
But where/what is the bike frame in the thumbnail on the right??
AKA Steel 2
853 as mid-level? In what world. 853 is like the highest steel in reynolds line up. Only one higher end is stainless steel 931 & discontinued 953. 921 is the stainless equiv of the 725 from what the info says.
@@Alex_564Why did they discontinue 953?
I'm an old boy and still have a great love for steel roadbikes made from Columbus tubing.
Nothing beats steel for its supple and comfortable ride it provides.
I recently resurrected my 1987 Panasonic Team America (Columbus SL). Instead of going vintage, I stripped it and had it powdercoated; I updated the components because I planned for it to be a workhorse. It has exceeded all of my epxectations.
My '99 Columbus steel Italian built Marin with steel fork is a magic carpet ride, Think it's smoother than my Ti/carbon forked rig.
I'm 60 years old and steel felt great when I was younger, but when I was 26 years old and racing Cat 5's, I switched to a Cannondale AL frame. Yes, it was bone jarring but the efficiency of the frame was unmatched by steel. By about 2007 I was fortunate enough to be able to afford a Ti frame and once that happened, I've never looked back. I currently ride a Lynskey road and a Moots gravel. That said, I do wonder what a modern carbon frame might feel like. I've never owned one.
One of the things which Ti offers, at a price, is a custom geometry...not sure if that's an option on a carbon bike. At my age and after three back surgeries, an off the shelf frame geometry doesn't fit me terribly well. I played the extreme upward stem angle game for about a decade before taking the plunge on a custom geometry. This is also something from which I'd ever go back....the head tube on my Moots is quite a bit taller than it would be on a default frame BUT my stem angle looks very normal. Yeah, there's LOTS of money involved in all of this but heck, I've been riding since I was a kid and this is my passion. At this stage of my life, it all seems like money very well spent.
I have been looking at my first titanium build, but gave up after spending many evenings calculating on geometry, measuring my other bikes. I need to try a titanium bike and like it, then adjust to my liking before I pull the plug. because I know how carbon frames feel. Never tried one I disliked. but titanium was too expensive to just buy without properly testing exactly what I would be buying.
Carbon frames are really good at dampening small vibrations from the road, but it's not really that big of a difference. Titanium is personally my favorite, match it with carbon wheels, carbon post, and carbon bars the difference is pretty much impossible to feel. The real advantages to carbon is it can be incredibly stiff, but that's really only relevant if you're racing at higher levels. Personally I'd stick to Titanium unless you have the money to have 2 bikes
Do u have jerk out capabilities in 60s?
here in the Philippines we love using aluminum since its budget friendly for us. we usually go on for long rides on the road
Suppleness of a bike is affected more by your tire choices.
Alum also "rust", oxidize. It is white instead of red.
I have an aluminium winter bike with a carbon fork (Orro) and a carbon fibre (good bike) framed Specialised Aethos. Frame choice does make a difference but the most important element of compliance/comfort for me is tyre size and tyre pressure.
One or two bike shop owners have told me wheels, too
You forgot to mention one of the greatest differences between metal frames and carbon frames: Carbon frames are basically "plastic" that is set in layers of carbon fibre (with a crystal-like molecular structure), and epoxy resins (a polymer compatible with carbon fibre that also needs to crystallize to harden). In conjunction, this is a toxic material, hard to work with, and with little possibility to recycle, thus not very good for the environment. The materials used are expensive and the process of frame making is complex. On the other hand, you have alu frames, made out of a metal that is possibly the most abundant material on the earth crust, cheap, easy to resource, very easy to recycle, non toxic, and absolutely fool proof when it comes to handling, cutting, bending, etc. The difference of weight is minimal on high end frames, so I don't see the point in usung carbon frames. Aluminium is far better and much safer.
producing aluminium from bauxite is not eniviroment friendly at all, but once you did that, the process is much better, and recycling has very low carbon footprint.
Stop ruining the fun for the rest of us. Go hug a tree and leave us alone
Well the point is maximum performance.
Just use steel.
@@williamko4751 you also live on this planet my dude
I'm proud to be a steel frame builder myself 💪🏻. Loving it. Road, Gravel, MTB, Dirtjumps and my kids bikes 😁
Steel is real...
@@maverick6631 is it still
IMO, any material can make a great frame. I have had great steel, carbon and Ti frames. I haven't had an aluminum (sic) frame ride as well as other options, but aluminum can be perfect for racing as it's cheap, stiff and tough. Setting aside ride quality, I focus more on durability and toughness these days. This is making Ti and steel ever more appealing to me. My favorite current frame is the carbon/Ti Seven I have: beautiful and tough with a great ride quality. Still, my carbon Giant road bike rides incredibly well and was a lot cheaper than the Seven. Overall, I'd say carbon is best for performance road, steel is best for touring or tough gravel and aluminum is best for inexpensive hardtails and crit bikes you don't care about damaging. Ti and Ti-mix is best for all around dream bikes you plan to keep for a while.
Just out of curiosity - why do you think it should be called "aluminum"?
Nice summation..
Right-I’m on my titanium frame for more than two decades now-just have to renew the groupset every few years.
Titanium doesn’t wear out,it stays the same ride quality it had when it was new.
It doesn’t rust,it’s easy to clean and you don’t get dents on the tubes.
It can be a problem when the tube walls are too thin,because then you are more likely to overheat the weldings.
It’s not easy to paint titanium-you need to prepare it the right way to make the paint stay,but it’s possible
I’ve been riding a Ti Serotta for the last 18yrs, it’s still my favorite descender, and has literally stood the test of time.
Mr Serotta is back building frames again up in Saratoga - he just fixed a weld on my friend's 20 year old Legend Ti.
Totally agree with you! My Ti Serotta is such a great all around bike, might be time for a drive train upgrade tho
@@shrkys4 just did that myself a few months back, got the last of the cable actuated ultegra
Nothing stands the test of time like a Titanium bike. It’s so damn expensive to produce due to the expense of the metal. Moots would have paved the way in the past if was not for costs and material…
That Serrota is a one-off a kind ride.
👌
Riding a carbon Tarmac SL4 but it’s not anywhere near as good as my old aluminium CAAD9 which easily remains the best bike I’ve ever ridden. Thanks for all the content.
Thanks for watching it
I know an Andrew Brown, but he rode a 20 year-old Cannondale CAAD4. In Sydney. A red one. They go faster!
@@BrianRPaterson Hi Brian, I’m in the UK sadly so it’s a different Andrew Brown. I was fortunate enough to own a red Colnago made from Columbus SL back in the early 90s. That was a beautiful bike and was pretty fast…despite my lack of ability.
@@AndrewBrown-em3ti Hi Andrew, I have a Colnago Master made from Columbus SL. It's in the process of being restored. Beautiful bike. I will say that groupsets have come a long way however!
@@AndrewBrown-em3ti The plot thins!
I still have a CAAD4 XS800 cross bike with a Silk Road Headshock. It's obsolete, but a lot of fun to ride. Especially on bad roads, where the shock and room for wider tyres (35mm) make all the difference.
Cheers
a carbon gravelbike / bikepacking bike sounds fun but in reality go for aluminium. the amount of times a rock has hit the frame and i genuinly fear a broken frame is not worth it. i would rather have a nice aluminium frame with a high end wheelset and nice finishing kit than a medium priced carbon bike with cheaper parts (3000 euro)
Completely agree!
Exactly!
So titanium.
Steel frame, carbon fork, handlebars and wheels is the way to go for gravel/bikepacking
Thanks for the video. I've got 3 steel, 1 alloy, and 1 carbon road bike. All the bikes have their good and not so good points which go beyond the material that they're built from. What I've experienced is that the way a steel bike with a steel fork seems to communicate what the road surface and "feel" in a very linear way. That makes for being able to not get surprised often times with sketchy conditions. The way the carbon and alloy bike for me tend to go from about a 2 to 10 way faster in a surprising way than the steel bikes if the conditions turn to crap. The carbon bike surprised me when I first got it because of how muted the road feels when on it when the roads are half way decent. The bike feels "slow" until I remember to look at the computer. It's a very different experience for me. The alloy bike has it's own feel. It transmits shock more than the other 2 materials but isn't objectionable on most rides. The geometry of 2 steel and the alloy bike are quite close. The carbon bike is setup different so It's not a fair comparison.
I think that the steel fork plays a much bigger part in the ride than many give it credit for. just some rambling.
Much appreciated. Newbie here doing her research as I’m hearing steel is for a much smoother ride vs how the body absorbs much more with aluminum and carbon
@@xviiibestarot if you use tubeless tyres at the lower pressures they work with, and slightly wider tyres now recommended 28-32mm rather than the 23-28mm of old) with modern rims of 23-25mm inner width vs older 19mm....
....then this will give you a bigger improvement in ride quality than aluminium will be able to take away again.
I'm surprised to read that alloy transmits vibration but not change in conditions. If it isn't change in timbre of the vibe that communicates change in surface, then what does?
@@xviiibestarot I have carbon, alum. And steel bikes.steel last forever and is easily repaired. Aluminum is good too. I've had a lot of carbon bikes . They all broke frames. I ride daily 40 or more miles on gravel. Steel frames on road and gravel for me. I want to ride home not carry broken bikes. Ride several , you'll know what feels right.
Steel is an alloy.
@@xviiibestarot Its complete nonsense though, all this stuff is imagined and you can prove it by putting people to a blind test where they can no longer identify which bike they are on.
I REALLY appreciate that comment at the end where he mentions that if your considering A Ti frame don’t go for the lower end if budget is a concern but rather go for a higher end steel. Very helpful, thank you. My budget was very low and I went for an all-a rounder gravel road Kona Rove DL and it’s a nice comfortable bike.
Great video , James is spot on with his advice 👍
Recently purchased a Fairlight Secan with Reynolds 853 tubing, first steel bike and I’m amazed how comfortable it is. 38mm slicks , GRX 810 x2 and It’s rolls along nicely on the the UK roads. Another bonus is it looks soo nice 👌
Your 38mm tyres will be making a significant contribution to comfort there, if you're using appropriately adjusted pressure eg by SRAM tyre pressure recommendation tool.
I'll assume you're comparing with previous bikes that also had wider tyres, but you don't say.
A glimpse of Cade’s new bike, just outside the shop whilst James is discussing aluminium and steel frames🤪
Great overview. For me, Road bike is Carbon, Mountain/Gravel are Aluminum. My choices are a result of what was available/appropriate at the price I was willing to pay. For me, mountain/gravel usually always includes travel by car, various car racks, and generally a rougher environment, more aligned with metal. Road bike is a less harsh overall environment, where weight, compliance, and electronic group support were influencers. All good, really nice to have options!
Totally agree. I know of several MTB friends who had their carbon frame crack. Alu is only a few hundred grams heavier but it will not break and cost at least 1000usd less. Money you can spend on other lighter components.
Titanium does not scratch, feels deli, and looks beautiful.😅
I ride mainly steel frames. But a Moots titanium is on my bucket list.
I don't think a titanium frame is going to really impress you. Steel is great.
Just bought a titanium bike - come to the dark side, you wont regret it
I have an Enigma Excel frame bought a year ago. It is 6Al4V titanium, made in the UK. Absolutely love the ride quality. When they say titanium zings, it sure does. Wonderful ride quality on our poor quality roads. And I had a shoe fit at James' shop. Well worth the money as it makes cycling much more enjoyable
I have just bought an Eikon frame, should be delivered in Jan so looking forward to getting that built up
I love your content. I’m 95kg’s I ride a $1,000 Ti. frame that I had built directly from China. I love it. I’ve been riding it for 4 years. 🤞🏾🤞🏾🤞🏾
I have a bamboo bike - an AluBoo made in Vietnam, they also had another range simply called Boo. Sadly the maker of these bikes left Vietnam and I don’t think they’re in production anymore. The ride, to me, is very similar to a steel frame , I had always ridden steel frames (531 and some newer variant ) and couldn’t abide the hard vibrations from aluminum framed bikes (I test rode one long long back, late 1980s, and just walked away from it, maybe- hopefully, they got better). I’m planning to bring my aluboo back to the UK in the near future, am hoping it’s adjusts just fine, but, if it doesn’t, I would probably find myself another steel frame to ride, maybe carbon, not sure - cost dependent! Also have to think about winter versus summer rides!!!
When you cycled Vietnam - you should have dropped into James’ shop, certainly the best shop in hcmc at that time!
wood is the original carbon fiber
@@anotheryoutuber_ bamboo is grass, not wood though.
@@JulianAndresKlode tell that to your lawnmower
The Bamboo Bicycle Club will sell you a kit so you can build your own bamboo bike!
I could listen to this guy talk about bikes all day.
After crashing a few times on my bikes and dented the frames, I switched to a titanium frame. It’s the best for terrible riders like me 😅
Titanium is quite durable I have to say
I bought a CAAD 10 with a dented rear chain stay, still ok 3 years later (90kg strong rider)
I ride an aluminum gravel bike (Trek Checkpoint) almost all of the time, and maybe I just don't know any better, but I really like it. I've used it for gravel riding (go figure), commuting, road rides, and touring, and it's performed brilliantly at everything. This is the first aluminum bike I've ever had, and I honestly haven't noticed much of the harsh ride quality that people often ascribe to aluminum frames, even though I'm riding this thing on 32mm road tires at 100psi. I'm pretty convinced by now that a high-quality aluminum frame is probably vastly preferable to many carbon frames, and that you can get that high-quality aluminum frame for about the same price as a crappy carbon one.
Love my Checkpoint have over 20000 k”s on it now love it. But thinking my next bike would be Bombtrack hook ect22 🤔 for no other reason just like the look of it 😋
There's really no reason to put 100 psi in 32c tires. Whether you're running tubeless or tubes... even if you weigh 300 lbs. Try running less than 70 psi. Don't take my word for it. Have a look around.
Doesn't a Trek Checkpoint have an 'IsoSpeed' decoupler?
@@artgreen6915 The aluminium frame doesn't have the in-frame suspension feature, which I'm actually happy about.
Have been riding steel, alu and carbon frames. The video is on point and according to my experience. Steel has a lovely ride quality and it feels like a spring winding up under your pedalling input. Alu is quite sterile instead, it feels flat and rather liveless, but it's much lighter and stiffer than steel. Therefore it's definitely more suitable for racing. Carbon feels firm as alu yet responsive and compliant as steel, and it's therefore by far my preferred material.
I could listen to James talk all day! So knowledgeable and well spoken …… I have two titanium Curve bikes and I love them.
love my far east made titanium, haven't had a single problem, comfy yet responsive
Have you ridden a high end titanium frame? :-) doesnt help if you cant compare it to something. Enjoy the bike tho as long as it keeps you riding 👍
@@playmoreguitar5393 so if my low-end Ti frame already comfy and responsive (compared to my steel bike), would a high-end one 10 times more responsive and comfier? (since it cost 10x) I doubt that
@@playmoreguitar5393 when the bike suits the rider why change something just because it’s more expensive?
My only bike at the moment is made of mid-level steel and I love it -- decent weight & relatively comfortable on bad roads.
steel is superior for streets(potholes and bumps + high speed) and on the trails aluminum is fine.
I'm a carbon frame fan. Nice rounded tube profiles though, I'm not so keen on the aero, dropped seat stays kinda thing. Oh, and is that James' daily parked outside? No, not the Mini, the cheeky little blue shopper bike which I'm guessing it's a steel frame 😊 Great content as always guys!
This is such a great series! Thanks for all the effort and content!
alu for the mtb, carbon for the weekends, steel for the every day, and actually, you can tell the difference between the differences in compliance, stiffness, the degrees of "transmission" of the ground of each one.
nice video
That's cool..
I have a vintage (2001ish) Lemond Tourmalet in 853 Steel that I love the feel of. I've done many centuries on that bike and still felt great at the end of the day. I also have a 2016 Trek Madone that is most likely aluminum that is comfortable, but not as comfortable as the Lemond.
"vintage" 2001!!! My 1987 frame must be a museum piece
Nice
I'm lucky enough to have a Curve Belgie (titanium) and the ride is amazing - so comfortable but so fast! I race on alloy frame with a geometry for crit racing but I'd happily do (and have done) long days on it - it's that good.
Onya Mate! Also a Curve ride here, but I'm on a Ti Kevin. Compared to my Focus CX the thing that still amazes me is the way I feel after a big day out. The compliance on nasty gravel is next level goodness.
I’ve got 3 different bikes made from 3 different materials. Alloy, Ti and Carbon. For an everyday bike I have a titanium bike. It’s durability is superb. Don’t worry about dings, scratches, corrosion and it is just beautiful to look at.
I have a cheap Far Eastern Ti frame, and an expensive one. And I’m not sure that I can tell the difference between them in terms of the ride. But what I like most about them is their durability and finish.
In terms of their strength, I smashed one off the roof of my car. A carbon frame would have been scrap, whereas the Ti frame was 100% fine.
And the finish on a Ti frame just looks fantastic, whether it’s a day old or a decade. Scratch it, and all you need is a scotch pad to buff the scratch right out. I wish I could do that with my car.
I guess you can check back in in 7 years and see if the pricier one really does hold up better.
Who did you go with for your cheap frame? I'm looking at buying a ti frame from China, but after watching this, I'm not so sure.
The cheap bike is a Sabbath (effectively from Spa Cycles in Harrogate) @@bugsygoo
If you want Ti, Buy American. 🎯
Interesting. I just ordered a titanium frame from Ora in Taiwan. Everything I've read suggests Ora's work is fairly good. I guess we'll see how it turns out.
I have owned all 4 frame types and vote Titanium. One big advantage you didn’t mention was it essentially lasts forever - won’t rust or corrode and excellent fatigue properties. I recently bought a top of the line Litespeed T1SL and it was actually a bargain compared to even a mid-level carbon bike. Made in USA (same state where I live) by a company that more or less started the Ti bike business so knows how to make them right.
My dad had a really nice titanium Serotta Classique.... the head tube just cracked apart (the tube itself, not the welds). Doesn't rust or corrode, sure, but I don't buy the fatigue argument.
@@vectura5480 which is why having a lifetime warranty is also a nice thing 😉
@@neilashton9459 sadly that company went under so no warranty, and it would be impossible to prove that it wasn't normal wear and tear. After that experience I just would not ever go titanium again.
@@vectura5480 Are you sure about that? Serotta is absolutely still in business. I'd reach out if it's still worth it for you. I ride with some folks who bought Serotta custom frames recently as two years ago.
@@roblucchetti2993 I believe the company originally was dissolved, then basically restarted a few years ago. Unfortunately it's too late now, we've stripped the bike down, scrapped the frame, and sold all the parts that were worth anything.
i Ride a CAAD 12. It's my first ever road bike. I didn't have a lot of money so i looked around on RUclips and on the web for the best chois and the CAAD 12 came highly recommended. Glad to see James likes CAAD. Jimmy Also have a Cannondale so i think i made a good perches : p
I also ride a CAAD12 and it too was my first "proper" road bike. I love it!
I was a wrench at a Cannondale dealer back in the late 90’s when the team issue Saeco red and yellow CAAD 3 was hot $hit. I loved that bike!
My tourer is all steel and my gravel bike is steel with carbon forks. The tourer is very comfy but heavy. The gravel bike is a joy - you mentioned Fairlight - I'm thinking of building a 'fast tourer' from one of their frames. I'm no racer and I think this level of steel frame is ideal for this - anything racier would be too fragile for the knocks of touring. I'm really enjoying these videos and have learned a lot - thanks guys.
I ride an Aluminium winter bike & carbon summer bike. Would love a Titanium one. Need to see Rob Quirk back on the channel !!!
Ditto here. Though may be switching to Ti this summer. My nephew rides a Renovo wood frame bike.
Bought a steel Fairlight frameset last year which i built up, huge amount of sizing options, lovely ride quality and beautifully put together all for a very reasonable price……about to buy a bit of Tom Ritchey steel soon. love my 2006 Kinesis XCPro2 aluminium with carbon stays cross country mtb too. Have ridden carbon and enjoyed those bikes but keep on going back to metal.
I have two aluminium frames; an old Dolan Prefissio and a Condor Italia RC (ride characteristics are night and day) and two steel frames; an old Gios made out of Dedacciai Lite and a Donhou made out of Columbus HSS (again, ride characteristics are night and day). James is right - not all carbon/aluminium/steel/titanium frames are equal - understand what you're buying!
I ride all 4 but don't own a steel frame anymore.
That said, I'm glad the point was made about not all frames made with the same material are created equal!
The builder has more to do with the process than the material, selecting the right tube dimensions for the rider.
IMHO, you're better off with a high-end aluminum frame than a low-end run-of-the-mill steel frame, or a high-end steel frame over cheap titanium.
With the CAAD series, its among the best production aluminum frames you can buy from mass production...there are others like the Mason Bokeh that uses Italian Dedacciai aluminum which is top shelf.
You can also make carbon super stiff or super flexy, the same with all the other materials...it comes down to the builder and the schedule (tube dimensions) that are chosen for the frame.
I was actually expecting a different approach to this video, but I'm glad the most important aspects were touched on, and I'll end with "Steel is real.....when its made by a real frame builder" Not all steel is created equal!
Got back into cycling about 4 years ago because of gravel, I bought a cheap aluminium bike, a kona rove, base model. Found it worked ok, agree with vibration feedback, my arms after certain rides were quite worn. A year ago I upgraded to a bombtrack beyond, a bike more at the rowdy end of gravel. Steel frame and forks and I love it. I grew up with steel as the main bike frame material so it felt quite natural to chose steel. My bike is a bit on the weighty side but then it is also meant for more demanding bikepacking trips as well. Bombtrack are about to release an after market carbon fork for the model I have, which I'm hoping to buy, so I can cut down on a bit of weight. I'm also going 1x so a tiny bit more weight gone there as well. Would like at some point to buy na endurance bike, also made of steel, aesthetically nothing beats the look of a steel frame either, probably showing my age a bit there!
I have been fortunate enough, assuming like most others, I have ridden and raced various frames of carbon, aluminium, ALU/carbon mix and now steel (Quirk Cycles). By far my favourite bike is my Quirk (granted I was able to afford it) but it started with a fit from James and ended with Rob. Best ride and comfort!
Last year I replaced my carbon DeRosa with a aluminium Palace 3c and definitely think the ride quality is better, (especially over longer distances.), weight is slightly less, though components have been upgraded. Interesting to note that Bowman were suggesting I buy a 56cm frame, but after watching and listening to many Bike Fit Tuesdays, opted for the 54cm, which "I think" fits very well. Oh, also now running narrow bars!! Keep up the good work :-)
I love Bowman bikes. Gutted to hear that they'd folded. Such a shame as they had a great reputation.
@@jonburnell532 Following the reviews I was really pleased when I received the frame, and it's built up into a lovely bike. Will have to take care of it as I won't be getting any spares anytime soon!!
Palace R: cracking ride. Gutted to hear about bowman
@@davidhalford4089 I'm hoping I can get a Weald on eBay at some point.
Such a shame about Bowman.
I am pretty sure Reynolds 853 is high end steel (along with 725) and only stainless being higher grade like 931.
One of the best videos produced. Informative and educational. I owns and ride all 4 materials and I totally agree with everything that was said about their properties.
SOOOOOOOOO EDUCATIONAL. Francis needs to get James back in Vlog on the regular!
My new Cinelli Steel frame is currently on route from Milan. Started off on steel when I was 7. Come full circle back to steel now I am 50.
Just bought a Fairlight Strael and also have a carbon and an aluminium bike and the first few rides have blown me away. Considering getting rid of the carbon and just using the Strael all year round. Beautiful bike to ride (for the type of riding I do anyway)
I love the way that when you move onto steel, there is a Raleigh 20 outside the window. :)
I ride a carbon road bike, aluminium MTB and CX bikes, and a steel fixie. And I really want a bamboo bike. :)
Currently riding aluminum, it's a bit stiffer than my old steel frame, but that also makes it a lot easier to accelerate, so the stiffness has pros and cons, just get a good saddle and thicker bar tape.
I'd like a better range of experience to say more definitely, but think aluminium probably has more zing than steel and it's too often spun only as a negative in commentary. A sort of get-up-and-go that makes you want to ride fast, so you need to pace yourself.
But you can come back from a long ride tempted to hold the bars funny, because your hands have had enough!
First road bike on my return to road cycling was a B’Twin Ultra 720AF, aluminium frame and it really did transfer road buz and vibration, but was quite light and fast. Changed that for a carbon Specialized Roubaix Expert which is still my summer road bike. I have a Ti hardtail and a Ti gravel bike-both at the lower end of the price scale. I have nothing to compare either of them to but will say that the gravel bike does ride very smoothly-it’s a Planet X Tempest.
I’m a hardcore Serotta fan, riding both steel and titanium, the titanium is a dream to ride…I also love a smooth carbon bike …just love bikes!!
Great video! Learnt allot there. I was led to believe that most titanium frames came from the same far Eastern factories and then were branded which essentially accordingly which led to the price differences. I have just purchased a steel frame Genesis Equilibrium which I am yet to ride as I am waiting on a couple of parts. But very much looking forward to riding it. Although I rate carbon frames I have concluded that I essentially can't afford what I would consider to be worth having - I say that in regards to allumium frames where I have formed the opinion that if you have let's say 2k to spend on a bike - buy the alluimuim frame and build it with high quality parts and components as a carbon bike in that price point is probably not any better. Great video!!! 👍
Not sure about Ti, but certainly a lot of carbon is made in a few places. The Moots in the vid is USA made.
Most frames are made in far Eastern factories, regardless of the material. With steel and ti, you can find any number of boutique builders making frames in the country of their origin. Custom carbon is a little more rare.
I have a Sage Titanium gravel bike which is built by Lynsky. It’s my first titanium bike after 47 years of riding. The ride quality is everything it’s advertised to be. It’s lively and compliant to the point of being buttery smooth. James is right. They are expensive but they’re also a lifetime bike. They don’t corrode. The fatigue life is longer than mine will be and if someone drops something on your on your top tube in a train, it won’t dent!😂 It’s worth the extra expense.
Yes the corrosion on the Ti frame should have been mentioned. Hopefully it’s my next frame.
20 years ago I built up a road bike on a Ti frame, using mostly Campy and Shimano components. On the suggestion of someone I bought the frame from a US-based company called Habanero, whose owner claimed that the frames were made in China by a high-end aerospace company that knew what it was doing, and that he had visited the plant himself to verify this. I did some research and apparently these were good frames, not super high-end like a Seven, Merlin or Lightspeed but certain high quality. It cost $700 back then and now sells for $1400.
When I got the frame it seemed really well made, which a LBS that helped me build up the bike agreed with, and once completed I found the bike to be super responsive, fun and comfortable to ride and rock solid, if maybe a bit noodly on tough climbs, but everything I'd heard about Ti bikes like how "springy" it felt and how it absorbed road roughness well. 20 years and well over 10,000 miles later and the frame is basically as good as new. I'm certainly not a super serious rider let alone racer but I used to average around 1000 miles a year and have done centuries in it without issue.
Has anyone else heard of this company and is familiar with their frames and if so what do you think of them and how do they compare to the big names?
I had Habanero Cycles build up a Team Issue frame for me in 2012, with an Ultegra 6700 group set. The frame set cost around usd1000 at the time.
This has been my primary road bike over the last 12 years. It seems like new and is exactly what I had hoped.
I was looking for a very long-term bike and I wanted reasonably light weight. Ti fit the bill perfectly. The frame I chose was one of the last models with a quill stem. Quills seem so practical and I also like the very classic appearance. I added a Brooks B17 saddle and leather tool pouch. Classic looks, modern performance (for 10 spd, rim brakes) and I expect it to last forever. I would do it all over again if I lost this bike.
My order would be: 1. aluminium: affordable, light and stiff. 2. titanium: more durable and comfortable, but more expensive. 3 steel: nostalgic, comfortable. But a good, light steel frame will be expensive. 4. carbon. Because why? And also because of problematic sustainability and recyclability. And I don't like the looks of carbon.
I currently mostly ride a (cheap) titanium bike. Love it. Although it probably feels a lot like aluminium.
The high quality steel bike I rode before that was even nicer. But thin walled (highly butted) steel frames are vulnerable.
Good video, a lot of info. covered in a short time.
I ride a 10 year old Moots Vamoots ti frame.
New Campy 12 record and Bora wto wheels this year .
Good stimulating content - keep it up guys - Many thanks for producing and kindly sharing the wisdom. 🙏
Excellent information. Riding a low end aluminium Bianchi which I totally adore and couldn't live without.
I ride a Lynskey GR300 internal cabling brushed finish etched graphics Shimano Di2 GRX 1x. Purchased new in 2020 and I love it!! Hand made in the USA by a company that has been making titanium bikes for a ver long time, read the history of the company on their website. Absolutely amazing ride and never worry about rocks, rust, or rough roads. First ride blew me away on the first ride and I am sold on titanium.
Confirms my choice in custom build Field steel bike, using steel from the city of steel……. at 6”6” you can’t get off the shelf to fit properly so this is an investment but worth it. Going for brazed weld for a smoother finish to tig….can’t wait for this bike…!!
what no one talks about with carbon fiber is micro fractures that you can not see but that can build up over time and create sudden catastrophic failure.
Great analysis of the internal frame structure. The footage reminds me of my last colonscopy 😮 Looking forward to the full build video.
As a 46 year old who has ridden lugged Steel, Carbon, and Aluminum, I completely agree. If I had a lot of money, I'd get a titanium frame. I have a old lugged carbon LOOK, and an aluminum Orbea. Thank you.
Have all 4 each have their own qualities.
Steel Bianchi is Columbus genius 26 years still rides great.Treated with fisholene at about 18 months,redone after repaint 2008. No rust.
Thanks for a very informative video. I ride a Litespeed titanium. My frame is 21 years old, and pardon the cliche, but it looks as good as new. I do lust over steel frames too.
James is the is the best in explaining stuff. Probably a really nice guy to have a few ales with... I gather.
Another great vlog gents 👏 the great thing here is that the consumer has the choice, its arguably better than its ever been. Do check earlier FC vlogs with Quirk bikes......what an amazing place to see.....even better to work in !
I'm a steel road bike frame enthusiast for sure. Dad built me up my first road bike in 1987. I got back into it about 13 yrs ago. Started rounding up old abandoned back alley bikes, pawn shop and second hand store bikes, etc. I learned a lot, building up restored projects and building gnarly singlespeeds, whatever. I now have 5 roadbikes of my own that all have my subtle custom touch. One is a totally original early 70s Peugeot, steel. I have an 80's Miyata that I've converted, very nicely, to singlespeed. It's very fast, 52:16, if you are. I've built a homemade rear wheel cover that looks as good as any. Steel. My FUJI is a nice example of a mid 80's roadbike. All Japanese, TANGE steel as well as a Kuwahara touring bike I use for winter. Steel. I also have a PINARELLO, about 12 yrs old. Carbon of course. It's amazing as you can imagine, modern Ultegra set, new Continental GP 5000 tires. Love it. But I still ride the FUJI more.
Recently Went from a 20 year old aluminum Pinarello frame to a 2016 Diamondback podium Equipe frameset with all the same 11 speed super record group/wheels/tires/bars/saddle.
Only parts changed were seat post and stem. it’s truly a test of the framesets
So far I’m impressed with the ride and stiffness of the carbon,the front end is so stiff. I had become immune to a noodly 1” headtube over the last 19 years. When I am out of the saddle the new bike feels rock
Solid. And soaks up bumps that were pretty noticeable on an alloy bike.
I ride Specialized Smartweld Allez E5 and gotta say its snappy, fast and comfortable, one of the best aluminium frames out there
I have an Argon 18 carbon frame. We have some of the roughest roads here in Eastern Canada and, honestly, the frame is amazing, with the right tire set-up (I'm using a GP5000), you'd think you were on smooth tarmac.
I have a little bit of everything. The gem is my '94 steel Marin Redwood. It had about a 15 year vacation due to back/neck problems, but I had it rebuilt in '18. Fast, durable and incredibly versatile. This bike will outlive me, granted spare part will be available...
I’ve got a 2008 CAAD9 in the same colour. Not my main road bike anymore but it’ll be with me forever. Enve 1.0 fork, Chorus 11, Corima tubular wheels. 6.9kg ready to ride. I have also got a 56cm CAAD5 that needs a home though!
I never knew *stainless* steel was an option(?). Corrosion from sweat has been a problem that has followed me throughout, but the addition of internal cable guides has helped to facilitate the "wipe down".
My current ride is (Lynskey) titanium with a polished finish' problem solved. I also powdercoated a 1987 Columbus SL frame and updated the components. Steel is for Sundays.
I’ve had a stainless steel bike for 10+ use that’s gotten heavy use. I’ve used it in rain, fog, and in day time - not once has it rusted. I do, however make sure to wipe it dry after it’s exposed to water. Love the way the bike handles on road, and dirt, it’s versatile, and dampens vibration, making it easy to respond swiftly when needed.
Fairlight cycles are wonderful steel frames. Great value for money and the ride is sublime. If you want Ti it is Moots or Seven.
Titanium - I would say carbon as well but since the Ti bike arrived the Colnago hasn't been out of the kitchen - game changingly good to ride especially if you want a sofa on wheels
Titanium - a Pretorius Outeniqua. Five years in and I could not be happier. Agree with everything mentioned on the video.
Started with steel 35 years ago, then carbon and now riding a Wittson Illuminati titanium bike. Great ride!
The Cannondale was not alone in blurring the line between aluminum and carbonium - we sold Cervelo from 2004 and the aluminum Soloists (that were also ridden in the Tours) rode fantastic (i.e. not harsh) as well. I'm sure that there others. Good job James in pointing out that Asian Ti is different, that there is is point where Ti is too pricey and steel is fine and that some aluminum can be substituted for carbon. Good vid Francis. Cheers from frostbitten Canada.
James bringing his best drunk sailor imitation in this one
Captain Haddock!
Been looking for a caad 8 for ages!! That Cannondale in the video is beautiful
Riding a Ritchey Logic road frame. Sure it is a bit heavier ; however love the comfort and feel of the bike. As I ride long distance and don't race this is more important to me than lightweight performance.
Fantastic overview of frame materials and construction, James and Francis, thanks and more please, 'tho James is breaking my heart with his dismissal of chrome moly steel. I mean, we all thought we were the coolest in the Seventies when we got BMX bikes with chrome moly frames. And I even had a plated chrome moly frame on my CYC Stormer, so you know I was styling back in the day. It was a moment and it was fun.
i started on a carbon XC bike, went over a aluminium trail bike and now arrived at a steel enduro bike. All of them were / are hardtails. i can happily report that i love my steel frame.
3:03 Engineer here. Aluminium and Titanium (usually an Aluminium alloy with Ti) will crack though, steel not so much. 12:11 what you refer to "road buzz" falls under the field of 'vibroacoustics.' Depending on shape, tapering (etc.), and metal you get different "tones." Steel attenuates higher, which leeds to lower being passed. Those naturally feels nicer to us humans. Also: SS will eventually rust, it just takes longer. Seal it from the inside, and apply a coat on the outside and you're good.
My main steed is a Seven - titanium. I also have a Co-Motion touring bike (Pangea) - Chromoly, a Co-Motion tandem (Java) - Chromoly, a foldable Bike Friday (Pocket Rocket Pro) - Chromoly, and a fully rigid MTB Niner single speed converted to Rohloff IGH - Scandium. I may buy a carbon fiber frame someday, although I think the feel of steel and titanium can't be beat. I'm also an older rider who doesn't race so maybe not. Good video, guys!
Currently converted over to Ti, love it. Not the lightest, but robust and will last a long time!
My Alu experience was a Cannondale CAAD10 Track and I fucking loved it!! But sadly had to sell it.
Don't mind steel and I hate carbon fibre!
I've an aluminium Cube cross race 2013 model 10 speed ultegra. Great off and on road, the geometry seems to fit me perfectly and for road use 40 mm Donnelly gravel at 50 psi so comfortable. Hand-built Columbus Zona framed audax bike made to measure CF forks, handles like a wet noodle. 58/ 59cm for 185 cm me. Can't comment on titanium or CF. Geometry and fit is king IMO.
Cannondale did make some fantastic frames with absolutely stunning paint jobs back in the day. I think my favourite was a purple/dark blue metallic fade. Sounds naff but was gorgeous in the flesh.
My daily ride is Reynolds 531 steel (1985) race bike is custom formed 631 (1988) steel, and mountain bike is a mix of 753 and 631 tubes (1991). Go Bilenky Cycle Works Phila PA
I’m on a Mason Bokeh. Dedacciai triple-butted Aluminium frame and it rides sublimely. Would image whatever the frame is made of - be it Alu, Carbon, Steel or Ti - quality materials + quality design + quality craftsmanship = quality ride!
I am about to ride a new Moots RCS ti frame. I've followed Moots for the better of part fo 20 years and am now about to realize my dream of owning one!!
Just bought a Marin Four Corners which is a steel frame and it's great. Having loads of fun with it.
I am riding a Ti frame - and I love it. The R+ from Why Cycles - light and compliant and forever.
GCN had a great episode when they went to the Moots factory in Steamboat Springs. Very in-depth on the construction process.
I have a few steel bikes. One of which is a surly troll I rode around the world. Had the rear triangle on the driveside dropout brazed in Argentina, welded in Canada and I rewelded it at a road construction camp with a arch welder and splinted with jubilee clips so I could finish my trip up to Prudhoe Bay and it made it. My carbon road bike however was found to have a 75% cracked fork head tube just before doing a massive descent after just 4000 miles of road riding. I think I'll stick with steel or titanium. Great topic thanks guys
Recyclability and other environmental effects should be a major factor. Steel, aluminum and titanium can be relatively easily recycled and may last a lifetime. They also can be repaired. I still sometimes ride a steel bike from 1986, a heavily modified Rockhopper, today. They each have advantages and disadvantages with respect to extraction and processing (ie aluminum takes huge amounts of electricty to make). Carbon fiber is fragile for the bike use case, not amenable to easy repair, which is odd since it’s basically a very durable resin plastic binding indestructible fibres. CF bike frames will sit in landfill leaching resins as they break down (for centuries?) As Douglas Coupland once wondered, “Where now are those ski boots I had in the 1970s?”