Pretty much everything worth learning about saddles and riding position, I learned from watching James’ videos. I’ve gone from numb d*** and sore backside to comfortable 100 mile sportive. Thanks James.
i seem to remember James had a video on how horrible short nosed saddles were. now it's his best selling saddle? curious why the change of opinion. would love a video covering that. ty...entertaining and informative video as always.
James particularly didnt like the Specialized Power saddle because it was too wide. Then he realized that the narrower 130mm version of the Selle Italia Boost fits most people because they now sit where their sitbones were intended to be supported.
Just switched from a Fabric saddle to the Selle Italia slr boost endurance superflow. It felt incredibly comfortable. My sit bones are now supporting me:)
Agree about using Selle SMPs. I'm using a Composit and it was finicky to setup. It took me almost a few months to trial and error to get into position but once it's 'correct', woah that thing is really comfortable despite any foam padding.
For me the saddle width has been the most important change, I went from a 140mm saddle to a 130mm (they were about the same shape) and it helped a lot!
I'm 2 meters tall (6'7") but have narrow sit bones (measured at 95 mm in a cycling posture). I tried a few different saddles but now use SQLab's 612 in its smallest 12 cm width on my road bike. The best cycling purchase I've ever made. Their design of saddles is quite different from other brands and I'd like to see more channels like this check them out.
Agree! I was sliding around on my previous saddles ( which were too wide I admit). Now using the SQLab 612R and pretty much fixed in position. Took some time to get used to, but can ride GFs without saddle pain.
Despite an SLR Boost saddle was recommended to me during a session at James's studio, I eventually ditched that saddle. It's a good saddle, and worked for me quite well but for relatively short rides - after fourth hour of riding I inevitably started feeling discomfort in my groin. Of course, I tried lower the saddle hight and other suggestions. In the end, my culprit is edges of the cut out, that are too sharp in my case. Also, despite a wide stance my thighs were polishing saddle rails and there're distinctive marks from the rails on all my cycling shorts. My point is even if that saddle is sold very successfully doesn't mean that it will fit an individual. Long term testing of a saddle, if a position is dialled in correctly, is the only way to find the saddle fits to an individual. Please don't bind it "blindly". One more moment, seen multiple saddle with manganese rails failed in rear bonding socket, leading to collapsing of a saddle to one side. Mine was replaced by warranty. I'd recommend buying a version with Ti rails.
@@bradford_shaun_murray I’ve been riding on sqlab 612 12cm (narrower than my SLR Boost), both indoors and outdoors, for several month already and so far it fits me. I feel, like, I sit on seat bones more distinctively. Again, that doesn’t necessarily mean it will work for someone else.
@@bradford_shaun_murray I've been riding on sqlab 612 12cm, both indoors and outdoors, for several months already. I found it fits me well either in low aero position or a bit more upright. I have no issue with thighs rubbing saddle rails. Also, I have noticed that I sit on seat bones distinctively, and even after 4 hours indoors I don't feel any discomfort. Again, it doesn't necessarily mean that 612 will fit to someone else. YMMV.
Hi James, the first saddle I was aware of with a pressure relief channel was the Liberator (named after the bomber built mainly by women). I tried one but it was not enough. I tried the SMP with the curved down nose (looks don't really matter) and it was a revelation. I can now ride all day without the excruciating pain from every other saddle I've tried. The improvement is that the channel is slightly wider but effectively is open to the front so there is nothing there to give that awful pressure.
Yeah. I remember that relief channel saddles were advertised toward women riders in magazines for years when they were just coming out. They were even called "female saddles" for a couple of years and "serious" male riders wouldn't be caught dead with one on their bikes.
Just to know : I'm more of an out of shape almost 50 year old MTB lover and tell me if I'm wrong, but I almost don't see any difference between a road saddle that fits my rear bumpers and a MTB saddle !? I've been using an Italia Flite titanium for ages (well, not between 2003 and 2020 to be honest) and I still love it. I'm currently using a Terry Arteria and it's also a joy ! None of them are made on purposed for MTB but they fit me. By the way, this video is by far the most interesting one that I've seen about saddles ! Thank you !
Issue I've had with available bike fitters is that they all had brand deals so stocked one brand of saddle and ofc always said the last fitter got it wrong and I'll be fine with one of their saddles. And if I wasn't willing to buy one, they would just peg any discomfort i had on my none willingness to buy the saddle rather than their terrible fit. (I say terrible because my last 3 fits caused me terrible injuries)
There's really only ONE way to find the "right" saddle - good ol' trial and error. IMHO any bike shop worth a s__t should let you try some. I'm sure more makers than just my friends at SMP have trial programs? Back-in-the-day when it was just Rolls, Turbo or Regal our shop had test versions of each for clients to try. Once they decided, the "tester" went back in the display case and a brand-new saddle of the make/model they chose was installed. Saddles may have changed but rear-ends remain the same...everyone's different!
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 I've never been to a bike shop that does testers. You just buy it and take it back if it doesn't fit. And hope that you don't damage it during the two weeks or so you get with it.
Great info James. My favorite saddles are no longer produced (Astute) which is rather annoying. I also have a Berk saddle which is nice but very delicate, also like the Fabric scoop with the pressure releif channel 👍
Thank you for the great videos. I once learned that the pelvis should not tilt forward when riding. Rather, one should sit straight up and lean forward through flexing the lower back. From the video, I got the impression that ist is desirable to tilt the pelvis.
I've never got on with any pressure relief saddle. Just created extra pressure points and extreme discomfort. Traditional shape and narrow enough not to interfere with the thighs for me.
Ahh, what a nice confirmation, thanks mate. After trying loads of different saddles, I bought Selle Italia SLR Boost Endurance Superflow S3 for all my bikes :)
I’ve got 2 Sella Italia saddles (one slr boost) and they both squeak / clunk. The rails aren’t fully bonded to the saddle body. I believe this is to help them flex for comfort or suspension. No, this is not as a result of the BB or anything else. The clunks can be triggered by manipulating the saddles themselves by hand. In fact after a couple of months riding some of the blue plastic at the nose where the rails fix came away. The saddles function as intended, but this is insanely annoying, particularly considering price.
Came here to complain about this same exact problem with my SLR Boost (which I bought from bicycle in Richmond). Mine hasn’t fallen apart, but it is really annoying! I’ll also add that if you have a pressure relief cutout in your saddle it is even more important to have mudguards when riding in the rain 🚿
Totally agree with that. I went though the same experience with SLR Boot TM saddle, but haven't had that issue with a version with Ti rails. Feels to me like a QC issue. Mine was replaced via a warranty claim without any question.
I use this model and had the same problem at first. I put some shimano premium grease where the rails connect to the saddle and the noise disappeared completely. I hope it helps.
Like many people, I have one leg slightly shorter than the other so that any plastic saddle I ever tried ended up hurting like hell. I use a Selle Anatomica supple leather saddle with the nose pointing a few millimetres off-centre to the side with the shorter leg. The long slot allows the two sides to ride at different heights, and each side flexes independently as I pedal. A few years back I did a 1200k brevet at 300k/day with absolutely no pain at all. OK, it's not a saddle for image-conscious boy racers, but it's incredibly comfy - like having each sit-bone in its own hammock.
James named off two of my favorite saddles; Shimano Pro Turnix and the Specialized Toupe. I am currently running a Specialized Romin on my road and it's fantastic. The Turnix is currently on my experimental 26" gravel build.
Saddle width is the single most important factor I’ve found to be in personal experiences. Too narrow of saddles caused so much pain for me, the second I tried a wider saddle all the soft tissue pain went away and I finally felt my weight on my sit bones. Viola no more discomfort
8:20 - "Saddle shape has more to do with it with than width". Yes. Yes! YES!! Finally - someone who actually gets it. Shape. Give him your business folks.
Would like to see an SQLab saddle on the channel. Many of my friends have very good experience with the 612 and I’m a big fan of their a bit more padded 614.
Interesting. I only seem to be able to get away with either a MTB saddle.... WTB Volt currently or perhaps surprisingly the very traditional Brooks B17. All day comfort with either.
Would be great to see the bisaddle system be talked about. I’ve struggled massively with saddles, having taken James’ recos for the SLR boost and pro Griffon in the past to no long term luck, even with proper bike fits. The ability to buy a saddle and adjust it to fit your unique anatomy is game changing and shows major gaps in the market in terms of sizing - especially for tri and tt bikes.
Seat bones pressure with cut-out saddles; have found out that proper saddle tilt (level in my case with slr boost kit carbonio) is really critical. Just a little too much nose down, in my case we are talking about ~half degree difference, and boost slr kit carbonio starts irritating my sit bones just after ~70/80kms ride... A little nose down gives that nice seat bones contact feeling at the beginning of the ride, but after those two/three hours results with extensive pressure on sit bones. So saddle TILT seems to be really important, also for seat bones comfort, apparently :)
sold all 3 slr boosts, look out for groin issues, it took a year to develop, they seem to have a sharp edge in the groin area that points up, back to romin evo that doesnt have that sharp edge. im also trying the pro stealth performance, no groin issues but sitbone pain, so experimenting with tilt, ive tried the recommended 1 degree, but just not comfy, but pain is nowhere as bad as the groin pain from slr
The selle Italian super flow endurance saddle has stainless steel rails. 316Ti (UNS S31635) is a titanium stabilised version of 316 molybdenum-bearing austenitic stainless steel.
Love my selle Italia super flow! First saddle I tried that was less than 140mm wide. It’s almost like now the saddle is out of the way and I can really engage glutes for more power.
Just returned from my First Ride with selle Italia boost and it was the First time I truly felt comfortable on my Bike. I really tried everything with Bike Fitting (I Set it Up accordingly your Videos, tried all sorts of variations) and I was almost going to sell my Bike because it felt almost too big and I could not make it feel right. Put on this saddle and no pain at all (i am extremly flexible in my hips and roll my pelvis forward and I always felt pain and I tried so many saddles!). I was suddenly completely lightweight on my hands, no strain in the Back (I assume because I was finally able to place my bones decently). I am beyond happy I could not stop smiling my whole ride. Thank you thank you thank you. ❤
Fizik Vento Argo 140mm is my favourite, but I’m pretty comfortable on most saddles. I don’t know if makes sense, but for me there are 2 types: saddles you sit ON and saddles you sit IN (which I prefer).
I have a couple of Fabric saddles (no cut-out) and would like to purchase one with cut-outs, but I'm finding it hard to find anyone that sells Fabric saddles. Any links?
@@84imreplica As far as I know they don't make saddles any more, they were bought by Cannondale. They are now sold as Cannondale scoop saddles. Unfortunately, model with the cutout, that was called fabric line and is my favorite saddle, seems to be discontinued.
My bike came with one of the curvy saddles which was ok and I did a few long rides with it. However, I decided to try the cheapest version of the SLR. It makes long rides even better. I’m a large (2m) and older rider
I've watched so many videos on this channel with James talking about bike fit and saddle discomfort. Yet after 3 years of cycling, 5 different saddles tested, a bike fit, a secondary session with the fitter, and some experiments, I still experience discomfort in my posterior (skin pain at the sit bones from the pressure). 120-150 km rides were my weekend routine last year, I even did some 200+ km rides back to back towards the end of the year. I have no back pain, no neck, shoulder or hand pain, no pain at any joints in the legs or feet. The only problem is the bum. Is it still wrong bike fit, or am I just doomed to suffer? Right now I'm using the SLR Boost Superflow S3, the most comfortable saddle I've tried so far. Fun fact, it collapsed without me ever crashing, and the right side is a little lower. Coincidentally, I experience more pain on the right side. And yes, I'm very much asymmetric all over the body because of scoliosis and stuff.
I find myself always scooting back.. the seats i used to like that are wide enough for my sit bones are discontinued and the new ones are to expensive, and you cant just try one out for a week and return it is it doesn't fit. the closest so far is the A.R.S. Classic.
Would be nice to see James opinion on the new 3D printed saddle from various brands, and how they compare to regular saddle paddings. I am currently looking at the Fizik Vento Argo Adaptive R1 (gasping for air) Hoping it will provide a little more cushioning than the Selle Italia SLR Boost that I currently have. Have a little discomfort on the left side, so thinking the pressure relief channel might have something to do with it?
One of the best saddles I've ever had is a VERTU I got off Aliexpress for less than 10 quid. It's basically a plastic hammock, so there's no padding, but it is surprisingly comfy. And its completely impervious to sweat or rain. And it's also really light. Oh, and it has a small pressure relief channel. My only critique is that it's on the long side, at least compared to the newer short ones. I've got three VERTUs on different bikes, and have given at least 2 to mates. Well worth a try. If it doesn't feel comfy on longer rides, stick it on your commuter or pub bike. At that price, there won't be any tears if it gets nicked! Cheers
I went for all the hype and got a selle italia smp for my lynsky and looked weird and was so uncomfortable then went for a basic specialised that supports me so much better. At least they are trying to make better sadles. I have flite on my colnago and again was not cheap and could be a lot more comfortable. I do not think it is so much about more money that equals problems gone, but just get what fits best.
My Selle SMP Drakon is amazing! I've ridden the specialized power saddle and Selle Italia SLR boost. Speaking to another fitter they said Selle SMP are not friendly to stock because of the cost. Maybe that's swaying his POV
It is super important to add that cut outs in some people can put too much pressure on the peudendal nerve. This can in term cause inflammation making it hard to pee or a long time to pee, like for me. It takes 10-15 minutes off the saddle to be relaxed enought to pee. It is quite unfortunate, Never found a saddle to help me. And Ive tried a lot. I am going to explore non-cut out saddles with impressions similar to cut outs to see if that helps. Alao, I found the sepcialized mirror to be even more uncomfortable than the normal foam saddle... Too squishy making for lots of irritation.
I would be interested in James's thoughts on ISM-type saddles (bifurcated saddle noses). They are usually found on tt/triathlon bikes but they might help riders with natural anterior pelvic rotation to get into racing positions on the road.
In the older bike fit Tuesdays videos James has said that they have no place on a road bike but are fine for TT use. With that said I have own saddles on my road bikes and I like them 😂
Well done. Nice discussion of both pros & cons of each type of saddle with a clear statement of your biases. That honesty really helps a viewer evaluate the advice. Re: the SMP Dynamic saddle...I use it, and find that it helps tilt my pelvis more forward than a flat saddle, and that forward tilt helps to keep the lumbar spine even more neutral than a comparable flat saddles, giving more relief for LBP. Kudos on this video!
I have tried a bunch of saddles with "pressure relief channels" They feel fine. After a week of riding the pain becomes debilitating. I feel like I have been kicked in the groin. Even went to the doctor to get checked for a hernia. Switch back to the saddle with no slot and in a couple of days I am fine. The saddle I have now has a relief groove but it not a open slot and that works fine. I think of these slots as a food mandolin. I have never heard of anyone complaining of this. I can't be the only one. What is going on?
Recently gone from 143cm Prologo Dimensions to 150mn Fizik Vento Argo, which appear to fit my sit bones better. Im 77 kg so not massive, so maybe shows width isnt necessarily purely related to size/weight. Also took a punt on a Vento R3 Adaptive, which I don't like as much as the non- 3D variants
Interesting. I have been riding a Spec Romin 155 for years due to their measuring in store. My new bike came with a 143 Power and while I only have about 70 miles on it, I really like it so far and may swap all my bikes to it if it continues to feel this good on some longer rides. I think the comment about the measurement being taken from the wrong point on the sit bones is spot on in my case - although the Romin has overall been a good saddle for me.
It's always fun to rewatch James' Fitting opinions, but sometimes he is too biased against certain products, which can be a life saviour for some riders.
Sella Italia Boost SMP saddle. I believe Cade said he sells them like hot cakes. I bought one, like riding on a board. Sold it. Went to Ali Express bought a 3M saddle for $28.00. Super comfortable and a fraction of the cost.
I find a very spongy touring saddle works well as long as you wear shorts with thin chamois, feels like less friction overall... But too much padding is too much heat
@@comedyman112 it is the S3 during my fit changing from the old saddle to this one was a noticeable difference in comfort. Only done four rides so far, it does appear to be helping with my issues, but I still have work to do on getting the position on the bike dialled due to the other changes we've made which I'll be seeing James about.
this video is most suited to younger riders. As an older rider 70+ our body changes considerably from 60-70 and no one really caters for us. Bike fitting people have their mind set up for slamming and race positions, when all we want is comfort
Finding the right saddle is a journey, and one I am still on! Had a saddle with no cutout (Fizik Antares), this gave me no end of trouble, then went for a Selle SMP, which despite it's aesthetics, worked well for short rides but anything over 2 hours would be fairly unbearable. After a bike fit, I am on the Pro Griffon, which has the same problem as the SMP. Ultimately the problem with having a saddle fitted during a bike fit is that it can perform well in the short time you are in the session, but you need to sit on the thing for 1 hour plus before you tend to notice the niggles. It comes down to trial and error. A better solution is to try a demo saddle from an LBS or manufacturer (if they offer that sort of thing) and test them for an extended period of time. I'm not sure what saddle I will try next, maybe the boost will be the answer to my prayers!
It's really a long journey, it gets really annoying when what used to work best several years ago no longer fits well. Best way is as you mentioned try for longer rides and see if they fit, many saddles offer 30-day exchange services. (Bontrager, Pro Saddle etc...)
SMP has test centers for this reason. Their website will show you the closest one to you. I'm friends with the people there...but it all started after a saddle trial-and-error period led me to them rather than shilling for something my friends make because of the friendship :-)
I wonder if James ever tried SQLab (they use a raised tail where you sit on, your perineum hovers over the front). Their active version has an elastomer in it so it can move with your hip (?) as you are pedaling. I'm on a Selle SMP VT30c at the moment, saddle pressure mapping showed pressure being almost at the edge, I think I sit fairly wide, but then my legs seem to rub the nose - it's its shiny now
Great update to your previous videos on the topic but IMHO not a fair assessment/opinion of Specialized when you do not discuss the Power Arc version especially when it can be argued that the Arc is the superior successor model variant.
🤔”No idea why” … he must know … at least that Specialized claims that by filling in the gap with a supportive soft foam, it prevents swelling of the labia that can happen on long rides in absence of support (caused by the gap). No gap- go numb. Open gap: protrusion and swelling. 🤷🏻♂️
After this vid I thought I should try out the SLR Boost. I found a second hand one and rode out to get it and installed it for the ride back. I've never felt so comfortable on a bike, f me! And I had always thought my old Fizik Antares saddle was perfect for me. Now I'm getting one for the Gravel bike pronto
Am I crazy or was this dude against short nose saddles up until this video? Now it's the way to go... Just shows you that the best way is to try a few saddles on your own, cause the experts change their opinions and preferred (or sponsored) brands all the time.
The variety of bicycle saddles, and opinions, are absolutely mind-boggling. Researching saddles is so confusing and opinionated, I always give up. My decade old Toupe saddle finally gave up, and I was forced to replace it. I was able to try the Fizik Arione and absolutely love the ability to move around effortlessly.
Love the Pro Turnix for XC mountainbiking. Though the current performance version with the pointy carbon 'wing' on the rear really scares me as a mountainbiker. Would definitely not like to crash into that. The chromo version looks way nicer to crash into by accident 😅
in a video some time back he said they were for tt bikes and didn't offer enough support for road bikes. He had one of the ps saddles in that video and for that model i agree. I ride the pl model and have tried a friends pn model. These can be great of a road bike if set up correctly which most people don't. Your ism will be slammed or pretty close to slammed back on a road bike. Search for ism commercial on youtube and you can catch a glimpse of one mounted under the rider and it's all the way back. You don't sit on one the same as you do a conventional saddle. ISM has instructions and a setup guide, follow those.
The type of saddle I use isn't really represented here. I use an ISM saddle, which are more for triathletes, but I have one on my road bike and find them really comfortable. Split, short nosed, and really good quality. Plus, if you call ISM saddles in Tampa FL, odds are you're going to speak to the owner of the company who designed/invented all of the saddles they sell and he'll gladly speak to you about them.
How about (pseudo) TT saddles, like ISM? I'm on an SLR boost but I sit with a lot of forward pelvis rotation and in order to hit the pressure relief channel with my perineum I have to move way too far back And it completely closes up my hip.
If you sit with a lot of forward pelvis rotation (presumably a relatively aggressive position) and you still have to move way too far back to get over the pressure relief channel, sounds like you might have too much distance between your handlebars and saddle.
@@Chaddledee i can get over it just fine if all i do is rotate my pelvis back, then I actually sit exactly how you're supposed to. The problem when i rotate forward is that I my sitbones rise too high to make contact. I don't move forward, there is still zero saddle showing behind. And then to hit the pressure relief properly i need to move back so that my perineum is almost in line with where my sitbones were before. It also causes some thigh rub on the saddle.
Probably due to my being an elderly American, plus not being familiar with a lot of the modern bike terminology, I couldn't get the quite important points that he was making at 13:24: "we found we could reduce pressure in the saddle by up to 50% just by putting ??? in the shoe. ???? will have a massive impact..." Putting what in the shoe? And what will have a massive impact?
I know James recently criticised Brooks leather saddles in one of the videos, but I'd love to hear what he thinks about the Cambium line. A lot of publications focused on bikepacking/ultraendurance hold the Cambium in really high regard.
When going from traditional length saddle to Shorter saddle how do you match set back for a staring point. Rear of saddle to center of stem Clamp? 80 mm mark? Or something else? TY
Could you steer me to a saddle that has longer seat rails than the specialized power? I need just a little more rearward travel. Bike is a merida reacto d/a ltd. Love all your content!
I tried a Boost SLR but felt like my ass was going numb after long rides. The hole is SO big that it felt like sitting on the toilet for too long. What does James think of the differences with padding (eTPU and 3d mesh etc) in saddles?
My bike fitter hates the SLR Boost, since it recently lacks of quality. The rails comes non-symmetric from the factory. Not sure if this is really a bigger thing or just a temporary problem (or even true...). Also other fitters like Neill Stanbury measure your bones sitting and prefer SQ Lab or SMP. Unfortunately there is no common sense in bike bitting world :/ (except of getting a bike fit lol)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice to see James back on the Channel! I would love to see some bike adventures like in the good old days as well ;)
Same!
I am deeply upset that you no longer call videos with James "Bike Fit Tuesdays." Otherwise, great video, always happy to see James.
It's Sunday
@@ct1361 Bike fit Tuesday, never actually filmed or posted on Tuesday
I’m regular upset 😢
Not click baity enough
X2
Pretty much everything worth learning about saddles and riding position, I learned from watching James’ videos. I’ve gone from numb d*** and sore backside to comfortable 100 mile sportive. Thanks James.
Pelvically disoriented. You learn something new with James every time 😂
i seem to remember James had a video on how horrible short nosed saddles were. now it's his best selling saddle? curious why the change of opinion. would love a video covering that. ty...entertaining and informative video as always.
Probably because most manufacturers are producing more of them.
James particularly didnt like the Specialized Power saddle because it was too wide. Then he realized that the narrower 130mm version of the Selle Italia Boost fits most people because they now sit where their sitbones were intended to be supported.
Just switched from a Fabric saddle to the Selle Italia slr boost endurance superflow. It felt incredibly comfortable. My sit bones are now supporting me:)
Each and every video with James is a win.
Agree about using Selle SMPs. I'm using a Composit and it was finicky to setup. It took me almost a few months to trial and error to get into position but once it's 'correct', woah that thing is really comfortable despite any foam padding.
For me the saddle width has been the most important change, I went from a 140mm saddle to a 130mm (they were about the same shape) and it helped a lot!
What's your sit bone width? I kinda have the same issue
@@comedyman112 wondering the same thing of how does one come to that conclusion without spending your money first?!
I'm 2 meters tall (6'7") but have narrow sit bones (measured at 95 mm in a cycling posture). I tried a few different saddles but now use SQLab's 612 in its smallest 12 cm width on my road bike. The best cycling purchase I've ever made. Their design of saddles is quite different from other brands and I'd like to see more channels like this check them out.
Agree! I was sliding around on my previous saddles ( which were too wide I admit). Now using the SQLab 612R and pretty much fixed in position. Took some time to get used to, but can ride GFs without saddle pain.
How did you set the tilt?
Good to see you Francis, all the best. And James of course. x
Used Toupe for years and years, now SLR Superflow Boost on all bikes. Concave to center, convex as you move further back. Perfect.
Despite an SLR Boost saddle was recommended to me during a session at James's studio, I eventually ditched that saddle. It's a good saddle, and worked for me quite well but for relatively short rides - after fourth hour of riding I inevitably started feeling discomfort in my groin. Of course, I tried lower the saddle hight and other suggestions. In the end, my culprit is edges of the cut out, that are too sharp in my case. Also, despite a wide stance my thighs were polishing saddle rails and there're distinctive marks from the rails on all my cycling shorts. My point is even if that saddle is sold very successfully doesn't mean that it will fit an individual. Long term testing of a saddle, if a position is dialled in correctly, is the only way to find the saddle fits to an individual. Please don't bind it "blindly".
One more moment, seen multiple saddle with manganese rails failed in rear bonding socket, leading to collapsing of a saddle to one side. Mine was replaced by warranty. I'd recommend buying a version with Ti rails.
2:41 So after the SLR Boost with its 2 shortcomings (sharp edges of cut out and saddle rail rub), what have you found works for longer rides?
Selle Italia has important networks to "boost" their sales!
@@bradford_shaun_murray I’ve been riding on sqlab 612 12cm (narrower than my SLR Boost), both indoors and outdoors, for several month already and so far it fits me. I feel, like, I sit on seat bones more distinctively. Again, that doesn’t necessarily mean it will work for someone else.
@@bradford_shaun_murray I've been riding on sqlab 612 12cm, both indoors and outdoors, for several months already. I found it fits me well either in low aero position or a bit more upright. I have no issue with thighs rubbing saddle rails.
Also, I have noticed that I sit on seat bones distinctively, and even after 4 hours indoors I don't feel any discomfort.
Again, it doesn't necessarily mean that 612 will fit to someone else. YMMV.
What is your sit bone width? Did you use the S3 130mm?
How wide is your current saddle now? What model is it?
Hi James, the first saddle I was aware of with a pressure relief channel was the Liberator (named after the bomber built mainly by women). I tried one but it was not enough. I tried the SMP with the curved down nose (looks don't really matter) and it was a revelation. I can now ride all day without the excruciating pain from every other saddle I've tried. The improvement is that the channel is slightly wider but effectively is open to the front so there is nothing there to give that awful pressure.
Yeah. I remember that relief channel saddles were advertised toward women riders in magazines for years when they were just coming out. They were even called "female saddles" for a couple of years and "serious" male riders wouldn't be caught dead with one on their bikes.
@@swordmonkey6635 Good point. A perfect example of looks over function. Never mind the comfort, it has to look good.
I love the SMP saddles too as a casual male rider
Just to know : I'm more of an out of shape almost 50 year old MTB lover and tell me if I'm wrong, but I almost don't see any difference between a road saddle that fits my rear bumpers and a MTB saddle !? I've been using an Italia Flite titanium for ages (well, not between 2003 and 2020 to be honest) and I still love it. I'm currently using a Terry Arteria and it's also a joy ! None of them are made on purposed for MTB but they fit me. By the way, this video is by far the most interesting one that I've seen about saddles ! Thank you !
Always great seeing James. Also, his appearance is my first viewing of your channel.
Issue I've had with available bike fitters is that they all had brand deals so stocked one brand of saddle and ofc always said the last fitter got it wrong and I'll be fine with one of their saddles.
And if I wasn't willing to buy one, they would just peg any discomfort i had on my none willingness to buy the saddle rather than their terrible fit.
(I say terrible because my last 3 fits caused me terrible injuries)
That's why as much as I like to get a bike fit, if they fit me wrong I'm screwed.
There's really only ONE way to find the "right" saddle - good ol' trial and error. IMHO any bike shop worth a s__t should let you try some. I'm sure more makers than just my friends at SMP have trial programs? Back-in-the-day when it was just Rolls, Turbo or Regal our shop had test versions of each for clients to try. Once they decided, the "tester" went back in the display case and a brand-new saddle of the make/model they chose was installed.
Saddles may have changed but rear-ends remain the same...everyone's different!
Corruption in the cycling industry? Say it aint so!
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 I've never been to a bike shop that does testers. You just buy it and take it back if it doesn't fit. And hope that you don't damage it during the two weeks or so you get with it.
Great info James. My favorite saddles are no longer produced (Astute) which is rather annoying. I also have a Berk saddle which is nice but very delicate, also like the Fabric scoop with the pressure releif channel 👍
Thank you for the great videos. I once learned that the pelvis should not tilt forward when riding. Rather, one should sit straight up and lean forward through flexing the lower back. From the video, I got the impression that ist is desirable to tilt the pelvis.
I've never got on with any pressure relief saddle. Just created extra pressure points and extreme discomfort. Traditional shape and narrow enough not to interfere with the thighs for me.
Ahh, what a nice confirmation, thanks mate. After trying loads of different saddles, I bought Selle Italia SLR Boost Endurance Superflow S3 for all my bikes :)
I’ve got 2 Sella Italia saddles (one slr boost) and they both squeak / clunk. The rails aren’t fully bonded to the saddle body. I believe this is to help them flex for comfort or suspension. No, this is not as a result of the BB or anything else. The clunks can be triggered by manipulating the saddles themselves by hand. In fact after a couple of months riding some of the blue plastic at the nose where the rails fix came away. The saddles function as intended, but this is insanely annoying, particularly considering price.
Came here to complain about this same exact problem with my SLR Boost (which I bought from bicycle in Richmond). Mine hasn’t fallen apart, but it is really annoying!
I’ll also add that if you have a pressure relief cutout in your saddle it is even more important to have mudguards when riding in the rain 🚿
Totally agree with that. I went though the same experience with SLR Boot TM saddle, but haven't had that issue with a version with Ti rails. Feels to me like a QC issue. Mine was replaced via a warranty claim without any question.
I use this model and had the same problem at first. I put some shimano premium grease where the rails connect to the saddle and the noise disappeared completely. I hope it helps.
It's never the BB.
@@JamesBriano 😂
SMP TRK works for me as a casual rider. Yes it is a bit finicky to get right but is a big step up in comfort from other saddles I have tried.
SOLD i desperately need a pressure relief and this sold me on the slr boost endurance. Love this channel!
I love James. He’s got a good spirit and I’m thereby inclined to believe whatever he says
for me salle slr boots is very comfort and not pain before 70km. very happy
Like many people, I have one leg slightly shorter than the other so that any plastic saddle I ever tried ended up hurting like hell. I use a Selle Anatomica supple leather saddle with the nose pointing a few millimetres off-centre to the side with the shorter leg. The long slot allows the two sides to ride at different heights, and each side flexes independently as I pedal. A few years back I did a 1200k brevet at 300k/day with absolutely no pain at all. OK, it's not a saddle for image-conscious boy racers, but it's incredibly comfy - like having each sit-bone in its own hammock.
James named off two of my favorite saddles; Shimano Pro Turnix and the Specialized Toupe. I am currently running a Specialized Romin on my road and it's fantastic. The Turnix is currently on my experimental 26" gravel build.
Pro Turnix is one of the most underrated saddle in the market imo.
Saddle width is the single most important factor I’ve found to be in personal experiences. Too narrow of saddles caused so much pain for me, the second I tried a wider saddle all the soft tissue pain went away and I finally felt my weight on my sit bones. Viola no more discomfort
8:20 - "Saddle shape has more to do with it with than width". Yes. Yes! YES!! Finally - someone who actually gets it. Shape. Give him your business folks.
Would like to see an SQLab saddle on the channel. Many of my friends have very good experience with the 612 and I’m a big fan of their a bit more padded 614.
Interesting. I only seem to be able to get away with either a MTB saddle.... WTB Volt currently or perhaps surprisingly the very traditional Brooks B17. All day comfort with either.
Would be great to see the bisaddle system be talked about. I’ve struggled massively with saddles, having taken James’ recos for the SLR boost and pro Griffon in the past to no long term luck, even with proper bike fits. The ability to buy a saddle and adjust it to fit your unique anatomy is game changing and shows major gaps in the market in terms of sizing - especially for tri and tt bikes.
Best saddle I've ever had is the Cadex Amp. Not cheap but comfy oh and so light! 129g 😮
great video. straight to the point. ordered a new saddle with pressure center cutout. we will see.
Seat bones pressure with cut-out saddles; have found out that proper saddle tilt (level in my case with slr boost kit carbonio) is really critical. Just a little too much nose down, in my case we are talking about ~half degree difference, and boost slr kit carbonio starts irritating my sit bones just after ~70/80kms ride... A little nose down gives that nice seat bones contact feeling at the beginning of the ride, but after those two/three hours results with extensive pressure on sit bones. So saddle TILT seems to be really important, also for seat bones comfort, apparently :)
sold all 3 slr boosts, look out for groin issues, it took a year to develop, they seem to have a sharp edge in the groin area that points up, back to romin evo that doesnt have that sharp edge. im also trying the pro stealth performance, no groin issues but sitbone pain, so experimenting with tilt, ive tried the recommended 1 degree, but just not comfy, but pain is nowhere as bad as the groin pain from slr
The selle Italian super flow endurance saddle has stainless steel rails. 316Ti (UNS S31635) is a titanium stabilised version of 316 molybdenum-bearing austenitic stainless steel.
Never ridden a saddle as comfortable or as easy to fit as my smp saddle. It was absolutely brilliant.
Bontrager Aeolus saddle is if the Selle SMP and Ergon had a baby. Seriously they are amazing saddles!
Love my selle Italia super flow! First saddle I tried that was less than 140mm wide. It’s almost like now the saddle is out of the way and I can really engage glutes for more power.
Just returned from my First Ride with selle Italia boost and it was the First time I truly felt comfortable on my Bike. I really tried everything with Bike Fitting (I Set it Up accordingly your Videos, tried all sorts of variations) and I was almost going to sell my Bike because it felt almost too big and I could not make it feel right. Put on this saddle and no pain at all (i am extremly flexible in my hips and roll my pelvis forward and I always felt pain and I tried so many saddles!). I was suddenly completely lightweight on my hands, no strain in the Back (I assume because I was finally able to place my bones decently). I am beyond happy I could not stop smiling my whole ride. Thank you thank you thank you. ❤
Fizik Vento Argo 140mm is my favourite, but I’m pretty comfortable on most saddles.
I don’t know if makes sense, but for me there are 2 types: saddles you sit ON and saddles you sit IN (which I prefer).
My two most comfortable saddles i own are the Selle SMP Drakon and the Selle Italia SLR Boost.
Love a video with James. Also interesting to see home revisit brands and mention that his preferences have changed. Appreciate the honesty!
I love my fabric scoop with the cut out. My favorite saddle ever
I have a couple of Fabric saddles (no cut-out) and would like to purchase one with cut-outs, but I'm finding it hard to find anyone that sells Fabric saddles. Any links?
@@84imreplica As far as I know they don't make saddles any more, they were bought by Cannondale. They are now sold as Cannondale scoop saddles. Unfortunately, model with the cutout, that was called fabric line and is my favorite saddle, seems to be discontinued.
06:24 is spot on for my Specialized Power sadddle.
My bike came with one of the curvy saddles which was ok and I did a few long rides with it. However, I decided to try the cheapest version of the SLR. It makes long rides even better. I’m a large (2m) and older rider
I've watched so many videos on this channel with James talking about bike fit and saddle discomfort. Yet after 3 years of cycling, 5 different saddles tested, a bike fit, a secondary session with the fitter, and some experiments, I still experience discomfort in my posterior (skin pain at the sit bones from the pressure). 120-150 km rides were my weekend routine last year, I even did some 200+ km rides back to back towards the end of the year. I have no back pain, no neck, shoulder or hand pain, no pain at any joints in the legs or feet. The only problem is the bum. Is it still wrong bike fit, or am I just doomed to suffer?
Right now I'm using the SLR Boost Superflow S3, the most comfortable saddle I've tried so far. Fun fact, it collapsed without me ever crashing, and the right side is a little lower. Coincidentally, I experience more pain on the right side. And yes, I'm very much asymmetric all over the body because of scoliosis and stuff.
Come see me, I’ll fix it
@@JamesThomas-jq2tw I gladly would, but unfortunately I'm quite far away from the UK and I would need a visa as well.
I find myself always scooting back.. the seats i used to like that are wide enough for my sit bones are discontinued and the new ones are to expensive, and you cant just try one out for a week and return it is it doesn't fit. the closest so far is the A.R.S. Classic.
Would be nice to see James opinion on the new 3D printed saddle from various brands, and how they compare to regular saddle paddings. I am currently looking at the Fizik Vento Argo Adaptive R1 (gasping for air) Hoping it will provide a little more cushioning than the Selle Italia SLR Boost that I currently have. Have a little discomfort on the left side, so thinking the pressure relief channel might have something to do with it?
Nice video as always James!! Thank you !!! Btw noticed you got a serious watch collection!!!! Noticed in some videos Omega etc…. ❤❤❤
One of the best saddles I've ever had is a VERTU I got off Aliexpress for less than 10 quid. It's basically a plastic hammock, so there's no padding, but it is surprisingly comfy.
And its completely impervious to sweat or rain. And it's also really light.
Oh, and it has a small pressure relief channel.
My only critique is that it's on the long side, at least compared to the newer short ones.
I've got three VERTUs on different bikes, and have given at least 2 to mates.
Well worth a try. If it doesn't feel comfy on longer rides, stick it on your commuter or pub bike. At that price, there won't be any tears if it gets nicked!
Cheers
Good to see James back!
Sound advice from James again......Great to see him back on the channel 👏
I have a Pro stealth after a bike fit for a triathlon fit. It has felt a lot better than a traditional one for me.
I went for all the hype and got a selle italia smp for my lynsky and looked weird and was so uncomfortable then went for a basic specialised that supports me so much better. At least they are trying to make better sadles. I have flite on my colnago and again was not cheap and could be a lot more comfortable. I do not think it is so much about more money that equals problems gone, but just get what fits best.
My Selle SMP Drakon is amazing! I've ridden the specialized power saddle and Selle Italia SLR boost. Speaking to another fitter they said Selle SMP are not friendly to stock because of the cost. Maybe that's swaying his POV
I ride dynamics and forma saddles exclusively. And once you know how they should be set up. It is just super stable.
It is super important to add that cut outs in some people can put too much pressure on the peudendal nerve. This can in term cause inflammation making it hard to pee or a long time to pee, like for me. It takes 10-15 minutes off the saddle to be relaxed enought to pee. It is quite unfortunate, Never found a saddle to help me. And Ive tried a lot. I am going to explore non-cut out saddles with impressions similar to cut outs to see if that helps. Alao, I found the sepcialized mirror to be even more uncomfortable than the normal foam saddle... Too squishy making for lots of irritation.
I would be interested in James's thoughts on ISM-type saddles (bifurcated saddle noses). They are usually found on tt/triathlon bikes but they might help riders with natural anterior pelvic rotation to get into racing positions on the road.
In the older bike fit Tuesdays videos James has said that they have no place on a road bike but are fine for TT use. With that said I have own saddles on my road bikes and I like them 😂
Welcome back Francis and James. X
Well done. Nice discussion of both pros & cons of each type of saddle with a clear statement of your biases. That honesty really helps a viewer evaluate the advice. Re: the SMP Dynamic saddle...I use it, and find that it helps tilt my pelvis more forward than a flat saddle, and that forward tilt helps to keep the lumbar spine even more neutral than a comparable flat saddles, giving more relief for LBP. Kudos on this video!
I have tried a bunch of saddles with "pressure relief channels" They feel fine. After a week of riding the pain becomes debilitating. I feel like I have been kicked in the groin. Even went to the doctor to get checked for a hernia. Switch back to the saddle with no slot and in a couple of days I am fine. The saddle I have now has a relief groove but it not a open slot and that works fine. I think of these slots as a food mandolin. I have never heard of anyone complaining of this. I can't be the only one. What is going on?
Recently gone from 143cm Prologo Dimensions to 150mn Fizik Vento Argo, which appear to fit my sit bones better. Im 77 kg so not massive, so maybe shows width isnt necessarily purely related to size/weight. Also took a punt on a Vento R3 Adaptive, which I don't like as much as the non- 3D variants
Interesting. I have been riding a Spec Romin 155 for years due to their measuring in store. My new bike came with a 143 Power and while
I only have about 70 miles on it, I really like it so far and may swap all my bikes to it if it continues to feel this good on some longer rides. I think the comment about the measurement being taken from the wrong point on the sit bones is spot on in my case - although the Romin has overall been a good saddle for me.
It's always fun to rewatch James' Fitting opinions, but sometimes he is too biased against certain products, which can be a life saviour for some riders.
Sella Italia Boost SMP saddle. I believe Cade said he sells them like hot cakes. I bought one, like riding on a board. Sold it. Went to Ali Express bought a 3M saddle for $28.00. Super comfortable and a fraction of the cost.
Meant 3D, not 3M.
More James pls 👌
I find a very spongy touring saddle works well as long as you wear shorts with thin chamois, feels like less friction overall... But too much padding is too much heat
James has got me on the boost SLR saddle just got to give him te feedback now I've done a few rides on it.
Does it feel ok? What's your sit bone width and is the saddle the 130mm version? S3?
@@comedyman112 it is the S3 during my fit changing from the old saddle to this one was a noticeable difference in comfort. Only done four rides so far, it does appear to be helping with my issues, but I still have work to do on getting the position on the bike dialled due to the other changes we've made which I'll be seeing James about.
this video is most suited to younger riders. As an older rider 70+ our body changes considerably from 60-70 and no one really caters for us. Bike fitting people have their mind set up for slamming and race positions, when all we want is comfort
Best thing I’ve ever done, took his advice on the sl-r
Love the way he thinks and talks. Great video.
Are there differences when considering a saddle for long distance gravelling and touring?
Finding the right saddle is a journey, and one I am still on!
Had a saddle with no cutout (Fizik Antares), this gave me no end of trouble, then went for a Selle SMP, which despite it's aesthetics, worked well for short rides but anything over 2 hours would be fairly unbearable. After a bike fit, I am on the Pro Griffon, which has the same problem as the SMP.
Ultimately the problem with having a saddle fitted during a bike fit is that it can perform well in the short time you are in the session, but you need to sit on the thing for 1 hour plus before you tend to notice the niggles. It comes down to trial and error. A better solution is to try a demo saddle from an LBS or manufacturer (if they offer that sort of thing) and test them for an extended period of time. I'm not sure what saddle I will try next, maybe the boost will be the answer to my prayers!
It's really a long journey, it gets really annoying when what used to work best several years ago no longer fits well. Best way is as you mentioned try for longer rides and see if they fit, many saddles offer 30-day exchange services. (Bontrager, Pro Saddle etc...)
SMP has test centers for this reason. Their website will show you the closest one to you. I'm friends with the people there...but it all started after a saddle trial-and-error period led me to them rather than shilling for something my friends make because of the friendship :-)
no 3D printed saddle opinion?! would love to hear what James' opinion on the 3D printed saddles as i ride the Fizik Antares Vs EVO R3 and love it
I wonder if James ever tried SQLab (they use a raised tail where you sit on, your perineum hovers over the front). Their active version has an elastomer in it so it can move with your hip (?) as you are pedaling.
I'm on a Selle SMP VT30c at the moment, saddle pressure mapping showed pressure being almost at the edge, I think I sit fairly wide, but then my legs seem to rub the nose - it's its shiny now
Great update to your previous videos on the topic but IMHO not a fair assessment/opinion of Specialized when you do not discuss the Power Arc version especially when it can be argued that the Arc is the superior successor model variant.
Great video, thank you! Professional and very informative!
Happy to see James again, sad that the women specific saddle part is 20seconds with just one option.
🤔”No idea why” … he must know … at least that Specialized claims that by filling in the gap with a supportive soft foam, it prevents swelling of the labia that can happen on long rides in absence of support (caused by the gap). No gap- go numb. Open gap: protrusion and swelling. 🤷🏻♂️
After this vid I thought I should try out the SLR Boost. I found a second hand one and rode out to get it and installed it for the ride back. I've never felt so comfortable on a bike, f me! And I had always thought my old Fizik Antares saddle was perfect for me. Now I'm getting one for the Gravel bike pronto
Am I crazy or was this dude against short nose saddles up until this video? Now it's the way to go... Just shows you that the best way is to try a few saddles on your own, cause the experts change their opinions and preferred (or sponsored) brands all the time.
The variety of bicycle saddles, and opinions, are absolutely mind-boggling. Researching saddles is so confusing and opinionated, I always give up. My decade old Toupe saddle finally gave up, and I was forced to replace it. I was able to try the Fizik Arione and absolutely love the ability to move around effortlessly.
Love the Pro Turnix for XC mountainbiking.
Though the current performance version with the pointy carbon 'wing' on the rear really scares me as a mountainbiker. Would definitely not like to crash into that. The chromo version looks way nicer to crash into by accident 😅
SLR Boost saddle is my fav saddle of all time. Can get them online from the far east for about 25USD. IYKYK.
Would have liked to have seen him talk about ism style saddles, I've seen a few riders use them on their road bikes recently
in a video some time back he said they were for tt bikes and didn't offer enough support for road bikes. He had one of the ps saddles in that video and for that model i agree. I ride the pl model and have tried a friends pn model. These can be great of a road bike if set up correctly which most people don't. Your ism will be slammed or pretty close to slammed back on a road bike. Search for ism commercial on youtube and you can catch a glimpse of one mounted under the rider and it's all the way back. You don't sit on one the same as you do a conventional saddle. ISM has instructions and a setup guide, follow those.
The type of saddle I use isn't really represented here. I use an ISM saddle, which are more for triathletes, but I have one on my road bike and find them really comfortable. Split, short nosed, and really good quality. Plus, if you call ISM saddles in Tampa FL, odds are you're going to speak to the owner of the company who designed/invented all of the saddles they sell and he'll gladly speak to you about them.
I like Fabric "LINE-S ELITE FLAT" or "LINE-S RACE FLAT" short Nose Saddle. Btw. i realy like James.
Please upload a video about touring bicycle saddle
Hello,
Instructive video.
I'm a bit lost in the Selle Italia Lineup... what's the difference between SLR and Flite?
Thanks
Thanks for this video,you gave me the answer I needed year's ago,this saddle drives me really NUTS !! 😅
I love this guy! Such a gem
Selle Italia SLR is my favorite saddle too!
How about (pseudo) TT saddles, like ISM? I'm on an SLR boost but I sit with a lot of forward pelvis rotation and in order to hit the pressure relief channel with my perineum I have to move way too far back And it completely closes up my hip.
If you sit with a lot of forward pelvis rotation (presumably a relatively aggressive position) and you still have to move way too far back to get over the pressure relief channel, sounds like you might have too much distance between your handlebars and saddle.
@@Chaddledee i can get over it just fine if all i do is rotate my pelvis back, then I actually sit exactly how you're supposed to. The problem when i rotate forward is that I my sitbones rise too high to make contact. I don't move forward, there is still zero saddle showing behind. And then to hit the pressure relief properly i need to move back so that my perineum is almost in line with where my sitbones were before. It also causes some thigh rub on the saddle.
Probably due to my being an elderly American, plus not being familiar with a lot of the modern bike terminology, I couldn't get the quite important points that he was making at 13:24: "we found we could reduce pressure in the saddle by up to 50% just by putting ??? in the shoe. ???? will have a massive impact..." Putting what in the shoe? And what will have a massive impact?
Arch support in the shoes...stance width will have a massive impact too
@@wilfmoss5242 Thanks!
I know James recently criticised Brooks leather saddles in one of the videos, but I'd love to hear what he thinks about the Cambium line. A lot of publications focused on bikepacking/ultraendurance hold the Cambium in really high regard.
When going from traditional length saddle to
Shorter saddle how do you match set back for a staring point. Rear of saddle to center of stem
Clamp? 80 mm mark? Or something else? TY
Could you steer me to a saddle that has longer seat rails than the specialized power? I need just a little more rearward travel. Bike is a merida reacto d/a ltd.
Love all your content!
I tried a Boost SLR but felt like my ass was going numb after long rides. The hole is SO big that it felt like sitting on the toilet for too long. What does James think of the differences with padding (eTPU and 3d mesh etc) in saddles?
My bike fitter hates the SLR Boost, since it recently lacks of quality. The rails comes non-symmetric from the factory.
Not sure if this is really a bigger thing or just a temporary problem (or even true...).
Also other fitters like Neill Stanbury measure your bones sitting and prefer SQ Lab or SMP.
Unfortunately there is no common sense in bike bitting world :/ (except of getting a bike fit lol)