Predator 224 versus Predator 212 on a Coleman CT200U
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- Опубликовано: 25 янв 2022
- Predator 224 versus Predator 212 on a Coleman CT200U
Installed a stock Predator 212 on the Coleman CT200U mini bike. Tested
the bike for 0 to 30 and top speed time and then swapped the Predator 212 out for a Predator 224. Did the same test with the Predator 224 to see if there were any performance differences between the two engines.
Coleman CT200U playlist - • Coleman CT200U minibik...
Instagram - doubledown555Black66
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Parts used -
Predator 224 - www.harborfreight.com/66-hp-2...
Predator 212 - www.harborfreight.com/65-hp-2...
Clutch - www.ebay.com/itm/313092339316
Don't forget to leave a comment to let me know if you enjoyed this video! :)
*********Disclaimer*********
Please do not try to re-enact or recreate anything you see in these videos.
Black66 does not take any responsibility for injuries or equipment failure created by doing so.
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Oh boy i cant wait to see you start messing with the 224 especially when you put the racing clutch on and it really locks up especially with mods thing would really move and mods are available from what i was told from omb warehouse is that the clone arc 3.303 rod is the right rod for the 224 and the arc clone flywheels will work as well as clone cams (clearancing on the cam most likely) due to the added stroke i cant wait for my parts to get here and i can start my build im shooting for 9000 rpms
Ya, it will be fun! Its basically a factory stroker
@@Black66 i saw you posted a pic and so i had to pull a couple strings i guess but i got my hands on one and honestly its this is great and all but i feel like they could have done just a little bit better and given us the full metal cam and automotive style retainers and keeps but from the looks of it isnt gonna as easily modified as the 212 by just being able to drop in a cam without clearancing and then you add a billet rod things are gonna get tight
@@madness_-yg3lw Oh Ya for sure. This engine will be just as easy to modify as the 212. The 224 has the advantage because of the "Ducar block" It's a better-quality block.
For me I'm not really too concerned about the cam and stuff because it's all going to be changed out anyway as I start modifying the engine. It's a great starting point. Strong block and a 58MM stroke.
@@Black66 these 224s are gonna be some real power houses even on a mild set up im so glad they did away the the "hemi head" for these engines as non hemi in my opinion are a better option as you can run higher lift and you can always modify the head to increase cfm im gonna run a puals kart head on this 224 once i get the entire bottom end built i would hate to lose a head that cost 3xs the engine but before i get that head im gonna run a thinner head gasket and work the 224 ports
ARC 6773 is the rod you need for this with a stock piston. Some clearancing of the block will be required.
Hello!! I just retired at 60 grew up on a 2-1/2 HP Skat Kitty 2 of them back in the late 60's, went to 5 hp trailhorse boss in the early 70's and 2 Rupl Roadsters, the information you are providing us is invaluable. I certainly appreciate it and am looking forward to building top shelf mini-bikes in my retirement. Great numbers you provide thank you so much. Always loved the 5 inch street tires too much fun. Appreciate all your help, it's excellent. 👍
I work at harbor freight, we just got those engines in on the truck. I love the red blower housing! Thanks for the test & video.
Cool! Thanks! The red does look nice .
Do you know the Manufacturer of these engines? Is this Lifan or Loncin?
@@ListenMusic1987 Ducar.
Black66, you have taught me a lot, your method of videoing is excellent.
Thanks! Glad the videos help.
Black66 back at it again 👍👍 another Great video and Much Appreciated 👏
Thank you! I appreciate that.
I just picked my 224cc PREDATOR up from harbor freight for $160 because of presidents’ Day specials I am so fortunate to get it at that price and it’s all because of you my friend thank you for all the great content keep it coming for the mods on this engine I will go back and watch every video of yours thanks again!
Thanks! That is awesome!! You got a great deal! I have more content coming on the 224.
I paid 177$
@@Black66. Hey buddy do you have other way to contact you I have questions about my Coleman mini bike
That was awesome really like watching your show
Anxious to see a comparison with the minimum upgrades. Governor removed, carb pipe, springs! Great video man!
Seen a kid on here few nights ago he got 43 from governor remove stage 1 he concluded that a hemi 212 was faster but 224 had more take off
@@heathenprojects2639 But still. I'm not sure why anyone would choose a lower quality 212 over a higher quality larger engine. Wouldn't make sense other than the extra cost. I have ran 196's for 13 years and never needed a 212. I'll never buy one. At least never buy a Pred 212. Ducar 212 maybe.
@@Deucealive75 Back for a while a 212 was only like $110 after taxes and have shot up to $120 and now $150. For an extra $30 you can get more displacement. Why get a 212 over a 196cc? Because they are cheaper to get a hold of and still hold their own.
@@Ratkill9000 My point was that currently with the 224 available I'm not sure why anyone would get a new Predator 212. I bought a 224 today for a future build.
Black 66, just wanted to share …i just tested my ct200u with my predator 224 straight chained with 10tooth max torque clutch and stock 50 rear with stock tires and vm22mikuni, gov removal, cl1 cam,18 pound springs, 6 degree key, champion rockers, thin head gasket, and header pipe. Im at 190 pounds. Bike went 50 mph…weight makes a huge difference like u said dude!
Im getting a predator 212 non hemi tomorrow for $89 with my harbor freight cash…we will see how fast that will go straight chained on this bike with my weight…i will let u know dude👍 thanks for everything u do! Ur channel is the best!👍
Brilliant video as always!.
This guy videos is so interesting it's awesome!!💯💥
I heard it has a 4k max rpm coil but so far everyone that has removed governor says it spin past just fine I'm still running mine stock on a baja warrior at 40 its plenty fast enough and take off is great lots of low end power
This was a great comparison!
Really cool, thanks for sharing the info, this is alot of fun
Thanks! Yes, This stuff is fun!
Just picked up a 212 for my Coleman, excited to swap it out!
Yeah this 224 is interesting. I would start with a 70mm flat top piston, grab a stock clone rod, double check the in the hole measurement then choose a clone billet rod and head gasket to use. Most likely a stock length clone rod. Then go from there with clearancing the block. And it would get Champion rockers no doubt. I like the legacy head. Problem is, I don't need an engine.
Thanks for another great video!
Thanks! No problem
Enjoyed your video very informative!
Thanks! Check.out the 224 playlist for more 224 content .
I got the 1st one from my local Harbor Freight. I'm not sure if I'm putting on my CT200U or my new Trailmaster. Thanks for the video! ✌
Either one would be awesome!
Great video bro 👍🏿
Awesome bro!!! Love the video!
Thanks!
Man you make building these look so easy 😂
Can you do a short video showing how that chain tool works
Another great video👍
When you put the clutch on what size spacer did you use?
Also do you leave any play on the clutch ? I heard it reduces the chain popping off
Hello I really love your videos I think they’re the best mini bike vids on RUclips!! I have a question if you don’t mind. I have a Coleman RB200 is it ok to run it straight chain? I see you do. Why do some mini bikes come factory with a jack shaft?
Thanks 👍🏻
Thanks ! The jackshaft is for gear multiplication to pull these bigger bikes.
You can run a straight chain but with the bigger tires it is harder on the clutch .Especially if you are a heavier rider. Going straight chain will reduce low speed quickness for more top speed. You can always add a bigger rear sprocket when running a straight chain to make up some of the lost low end .
Thanks, I have 2 Coleman bikes RB100 for my son & a RB 200 for myself. We enjoy watching you channel. We want to mod our bikes but it seems like we’re spending all of our time trying to keep the Coleman engines running. We’re gonna just swap them both out with the new Predator ghost. We love the bikes just find the engines to be problematic hopefully the predators will be more reliable. Keep the videos coming 👍🏻
If your any good at soldering , you can solder the tip of throttle cable to fit a slide carb.
I was impatient waiting on a new throttle cable in the mail. So … yeah I did, worked so well that I still have the new cable I ordered.👍
Yes! Check the playlists we have soldered many tips on the throttle cables!! 👍👍
Great videos thanks we have the CT200u for the grandkids and i just put on the 224 on the gocart, but now i am thinking, i have the B200rsv coming so should i rob the 224 off of the gocart and swap motors with the B200rsv the go cart is just for the grandkids so the 196 would be plenty Thanks
I wonder if it has the same head as the regular 212 and if it has a dish piston like the 212
Great content man thank you
Thank you!
Nice bikes! Do you think the predator 13hp 420cc motor would fit on that ct200u bike frame?
This video better get 1million views.
I see potential in this new engine ..
The 224 has a higher redline with the factory governor, which explains the extra top speed. I hope you repeat the exact same test but with the governors removed and nothing else done, see what it really ads on top end. Kinda weird that they gave a stroker a higher governed rpm...
Ya, for sure. More to come!
Does the straight chain make that big of a speed difference? I just put a 224cc on a Coleman CT200U EX (a little heavier) and I'm only getting 20mph stock.
Yo great videos …quick question..do you use the same clutch on both engines?
Thanks ,yes check out he 224 playlist ruclips.net/video/rF7xAz02INA/видео.html
Hi, love your videos, keep up the good work. Wanted to ask what's the make of your Hydraulic lift and where i can buy the same one, thank you in advance
Thanks! Not totally sure on the manufacturer of the lift. I picked it up used.
i just picked up 224 for my Coleman CT200U. Do you know if stage1 kit(airfilter) designed for 212 fits this engine?
Cool! I want to see what it will do.
Black 66 I have a 212 and just tried it and put the clutch on backwards like you did so I don’t have to drill holes did you just use a washer as a spacer and how many links do you have on that chain if you could respond to me I would love that I subscribed and liked to you bc I like your content and need to know things thx
ok now i have a few questions. is the output the same diameter on both engines , is there a big price difference between the 2, do u notice a big difference at the bottom end without a jack shaft, and do u think they could b faster after they r broken in more. also did u ride at phoenix AZ this past weekend???
The output shafts are the same on the two engines, 3/4 shaft. The big difference to me is the block. The block on the 224 is of much higher quality then the 212. It's a Ducar block. Great for future modifications. The longer stoke is awesome too.
The bike loses a little bottom end without the jackshaft. I could add a bigger rear sprocket and gain some of the bottom end back. I think it might be a little faster after they break in. They were totally fresh in this test. I didn't make it to the hood ride. I will for sure try to make the next one.
Very cool,
I'm running the stock engine on my Coleman CT200 EX Mini. I have a Predator 212 Hemi engine in the box that I have not used yet. The stock engine still starts on the 1st. pull and is running well. Only mod I made was to replace the stock centrifugal clutch with a Go Power Sports torque converter. It went from 18 MPH to 36 MPH and I weigh 210 lbs. I use it in the deserts of Arizona where I live and am pleased with it. Only problem I have had was a rear outer bearing on the jack shaft went out after about 5 hours use. When I replaced it with a USA made Timken roller bearing I found the stock one had never been greased! Didn't matter since i was switching to a Torque converter anyway. Good video!
Those 196 engines are pretty durable.Ya, the torque converter is better than the jackshaft. There is a video about that on the playlist. Have you checked out the Coleman CT 200ex playlist? We have tried many different combos on that bike .
Are there any significant modes that need to be done to put a 212 predator on a Coleman 105cc
Hey, is that Buckeye, AZ? I used to own land there.
Governors in right, stock out of the box. What was your gear ratio? Which clutch did you use and 50t rear sprocket stock?
Yes,both engines are totally stock right out of the box. It was using A Max-Torque style clutch 10/50 gear. 5 to 1 ratio
Hi, my son and I bought the 224 to put on our CT200u and we ran into a problem with the shaft width where we can’t put on the old torque converter. Can you tell us what clutch you used and the chain size? We’re not sure if we need a #40, 41 or 420. Thanks for the great video and really appreciate any advice.
Question? What type clutch are you using? I have a Coleman Mini Bike with a RT200 196cc engine. I swapped out the engine for a Predator 224, and found that the 224 has a higher idle speed, which in turn had kept the original clutch engaged. Any suggestions on a different type of clutch?
You can swap the springs out in the clutch for a higher stall. The Hilliard clutch is super easy to swap springs in.
I wonder what yer acceleration would've been off you rode on the smooth part of the road instead of bouncing around on the shoulder. Same with tip speed.
Hey I would like to know I just bought a predator 224 and I was wondering if you just flipped the stock clutch around and it worked like that or did you have to buy a special clutch
No special clutch.I flipped it around
ok u r big into engine hop ups which is great but did u ever design a front disc brake system 4 a coleman ct200 ?? when u r going that fast there's nothing like a front brake . captain America in easy rider didn't have a front brake but your a welder and i know u can fab something up. unless u have a mini bike shop in the area it would b a hit and miss with the inter net, mins r the best thanks joe.
Check out my video that comes out today. It's about front brakes.
After the 60 tooth rear straight chain on the 212 I'm getting 30/35 mph is that normal ? How can I pick it up
I have a brand new Predator 212 i plan on mounting to my colemanct200u, i have to buy a new clutch system cause mine is rusted and pretty messed up, could someone inform me on what that thing he used the chain with?
I can’t wait 👍
What size chains do you run? Great video!
Its a 40 chain on this one. Its a little wider than the factory 420 chain that comes on the bike. Its a little beefier.
Does the 15.8 459cc predator fit on the ct200u?
longer stroke? so higher torque at lower rpms?
If im swapping from 196cc stock on ct200uex to 224 do i NEED a clutch torque converter jackshaft etc? Ive heard you do and also heard its direct
I'm curious about the acceleration/power/speed difference between the 212 hemi head and non hemi head, any idea?
On a stock engine there's not going to be a difference to the rider. But once you start building the non hemi head is a better choice. Getting higher compression is easier and there's less concern for piston to valve clearance with a non hemi head. A non hemi head equipped with Champion rockers will produce more power than a hemi head.
And look at the aftermarket. Very few if any hemi heads and tons of choices of non hemi heads.
I wouldn't have got a 224 if it had a hemi head. I would get a hemi only if I was going to run it stock and didn't care about performance.
What size chain do I need 2 straight chain my mini bike ? It’s a 10 tooth in front and 50 in back plz let me know asap
The same chain that came with the bike. 420
Vs the Tilly next??? After running both a Predator and Tilly I think the Tilly's are overrated imo.
Can you do a video of a ct200u with 420 predator with a tc and then clutch please???? I have seen none on RUclips
Id like to see that done as well so I can have guide on doing bike! 👍🏼
Just went to get a 212 for the spring sale for $119.99 but they were out of stock so I just picked up a 224 for $169.99. I threw it on my new go kart I just bought and the clutch is fully engaging at around 20mph. I run out of field before I can even hit the governor limiter. It's a little ridiculous to be honest. It has a 12 tooth clutch to a 60 tooth sprocket and 18 inch diameter wheels. I'm tempted to just go with a 10 tooth clutch and leave the pulley and honestly just leave the governor on so the engine lasts forever.
Cool cool, they also go on sale black fri , I don’t know if prices vary state to state but here in the south they where 112$ for a predator 212
I didn’t check other prices
That was cheap enough I got 2 👍
@@kylesyx8432 we just walked in the house with our new 224. $99 for the 212 and $159 for the 224 in Texas.
@black66 do you recommend going straight chain on a Coleman ct200u ex or should I save up for a torque converter?
Staright chain is ok. A converter on one of these bikes with a warmed over 212 runs really well. Check out the CT200U playlist. If you are going to run a straight chain I would run a bigger rear sprocket than I did in this video. Maybe a 60 tooth or something like that. It is hard on the clutch with the tall tires and the stock rear sprocket .
@@Black66 thank you I will go the torque converter route much appreciated 👍
Awesome man. How many teeth on the clutch and sprocket
Thanks! It has a 5 to 1 ratio . 10 on the clutch and 50 on the sprocket
I wonder how the Black Max 212cc performs? It's a Honda clone made by Ducar which have rep for kart racing engines. I haven't seen a single mini bike with one swapped and cannot find just the motor but there are power washers and such with the engine being sold for 200+-
My push mower is Black Max and has the 635 and it cuts grass and brush you wouldn't think it would and it does it with ease in one pass so makes me wonder the power and reliability of the 212
Harbor freight = 2 x year you can get predator 212 for 112$ normally 159$
59$ cast aluminum flywheel
30$ vm 22 carb and 30$ header
And you will smoke that Ducar
Built stage 2 predator 212 cost less than stock Ducar
If you are planning on running that engine wide open for hours the Ducar is a better choice
So what happens if you put a HEMI piston in it like the 212 has?? And a 6k coil and acam with a metal gear???
Check out the Predator 224 playlist ruclips.net/video/SaxCCoqJ0RU/видео.html
How fast do u think it will go if u would still have the governor on no mods or nothing just a predator 212 engine
Check out the first video in this series. The CT200U-EX videos apply to the CT200U. You can get an idea of how fast it would be. ruclips.net/video/X0SmAZJ6qW8/видео.html
I put my 224 on today but it just keeps randomly dying? Any tips! I have a jack shaft
Why does my chain slap the side of the engine ? Help pleaseeee
Does the 224 motor have the huge aftermarket options like the 212 do? Or is it the same motor just different stroke?
Anything you can do to the 212 you can do to the 224.
Where can i buy throttle cable that I can cut to size? I cant find a spool of it anywhere
I usually just cut any cable to size and solder a tip on it.I'm not sure about a spool.
So I have a ct200u-ex and swapping it with a 224cc want to go straight chain has a rear stock sprocket , going to be running the vm22 and header pipe, want to know what’s the best clutch for this set up, 10t or 12t trying to get most mph out of it
A lot of choosing a clutch tooth count or gear ratio has to do with your weight. The CT200U with a 5 to 1 ratio ,10 tooth clutch and 50 rear sprocket is already on the outer limits of what the engine has the torque to pull even with my light weight. On paper the 12 tooth looks like it would be faster, but it won't be. Not enough torque to pull that much gear. If you watch the series, you will see what I mean. I would go with the 10 tooth if you are going to run a 50 rear gear and the 19inch tall tires on the Coleman.
If you watch this video you will see what I mean ruclips.net/video/xV8i59aGUao/видео.html
I have the same bike and a 224 predator I ran straight chain 10 tooth clutch with 50 tooth rear sprocket the clutch got super hot real quick I weight 200 pounds so 8 ordered the 60 tooth rear sprocket ima see how that works
I like these Longer stroked GX200 clone Engines. I use a Wildcat 223cc and man she is seriously powerful! I run them on my 16 foot long tail Mud Motor Boat and the wildcat absolutely blows away the previous engines I’ve had. (210cc Honda GX clone & Hemi Predator 212) the wildcat hands down blows them out of the water especially after I added a Robertsons torque tube looped header, a performance air filter and finally a PK 1B carburetor. I try to keep it minimal with the mods to keep my reliability but with a ductile iron crankshaft I don’t think I need to worry… I’ve never had issues ever besides the bs EPA crap I had to take off at first that was subduing the Engine and making it vibrate almost off the table! After the simple stage 1 upgrades The Wildcat breath’s great and has turned to a smooth purring kitten. (Unless I open the throttle… 😂) She has been the most reliable engine so far starts every time! Check out my RUclips channel if you’re interested in what the engine can do
how did u get your motor straight? i cant seem to get mine straight my chain will get loose and tight in certain spots
Do you have a step by step guide for the 224 swap?
Check out the 224 playlist. One of the videos shows the 224 being installed on the bike ruclips.net/video/45Eu29F8V3g/видео.html
They also came out with the 459cc. Of course i have 3 new 212's in the boxes and 2 420's lol oh well, time to hoard more engines lol
Same boat I have a few variations of 212 and a wildcat 223 still in the box I bought over a year ago
looks like your at sandy shores in gta5
What is that chain tool your using.. Show how to use one. Im a beginner so im gathering tools.. 😅
Hey man I have a question about that 212 how did you make it that fast because mine only goes like 22
Straight chain it from clutch to the rear tire sprocket
Speed screw under gas tank screw that out all the way
At Harbor Freight....how do the prices compare between the Predictor 212 and the 224....does the 224 cost more ?
Yes, about $40 more.
what clutch are you using? i need a good quality clutch with out breaking the bank
I have a video coming out on Saturday with a Max Torque racing clutch that I really like.
Hey Black 66 I have a 22mm mikuni on a 196cc when the lever is in the up position it runs good but when I put it in the down position the 196 stalls, do you have any idea's??? Help.
Make sure there isn't any leaks between the manifold and carb where they bolt together. If you bolt them together where they arn't in alignment it wont seal properly and the carb will run lean. If you take off the carb and look down the intake you will see what I mean. Here is a video link showing what im talking about. About 4 minutes into the video ruclips.net/video/xinMDBj-Pg8/видео.html
@@Black66 I will do that, as always thank you for your input. 👍🏻
What size did he used to remove the engine bolts
I'm supprised that the 212 did 45 stock I can only do 43 an that's with a few mods. I think mine could be tuned better tho. Also the 224 did good stock too. I think they both came pretty close.
Ya, they are pretty close. The straight chain gearing on this bike helps a lot with speed.
@@Black66 are you using the stock rear sprocket?
I am putting the new predator 224 max on and I want to do the straight chain conversion. Can you send me what clutch, chain and rear sprocket that I need to buy?
Links for the parts used are sometimes in the description of the videos.
Thanks for the info 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I watched this twice and I must've missed it, what size sprockets and tire size you running?
Its running a 10/50 with the stock Coleman 19 tall tires in this video. Check out the CT200U-EX playlist for many more gear ratios and combos with the Coleman bikes. ruclips.net/video/X0SmAZJ6qW8/видео.html
What size clutch and chain does the predator 224 use?
Same as the 212 3/4 shaft clutch
What bolt goes to the 224 shaft for the clutch
Where did you get the clutch for tha 224
I have a question... My baja warrior has lots of bad vibration on the handle bars. Can you help?
Are there rubber washers in the handlebar mount? If so, try removing them.
Can u tell me clutch u installed w the 224, would like to do the same set up
I have run a few different straight-chain setups on these bikes. Check out the CT200U-EX playlist. The best setup so far was the 10/60 tooth in this video.
I was using a Max-torque 10 tooth. A Hilliard would work too. ruclips.net/video/avdJE34nFIU/видео.htmlo...
What do you recommend I do with my clutch issue. I'm putting the 212 on ct200.. Straight chain vs. reusing the parts of the Coleman engine
I would use a 3/4 shaft 420 clutch with a rear 60 sprocket with the straight chain so its not so hard on the clutch.
Thank you !! Working on it now!!
And that's the 10 tooth clutch right ? Can I bug you for the specs on the straight chain, how many links ?# 40-41 420 ?
Hey man how did u get the regular 212 get to 40 and above I have mine governor screw all the way out and it only goes 33 is it because it’s straight chained?
Yes! the staright chain changes up the gearing .
@@Black66 can I keep the clutch straight not backwards and just take out the roller?
@@minibikemafia7346 its also your tire size chain length gearing clutch life so many factors but mostly gearing to get more speed but less acceleration and vice versa
Great video... the plastic timing gear may turn a few off!
My 98cc didn’t have a plastic cam
Now the governor’s plastic
Not at all… my dude has 50 of these motors and never seen a failure… built too… I thought Same as u….they’ve been in Briggs and tecumseh for decades
What length chain did you use? Can you post a link to it? Thanks
I can't remember off hand.This bike has had many different combos. Check out the CT200U playlist ruclips.net/video/ZFLSbnoH59g/видео.html
What kind of clutch is that and where do you get them? Or can i use the one off the 212 im removing
Ya, you can run the one off the 212
@@Black66 the new one is bigger... Old clutch won't fit.... And there is some fuel box blocking the whole assembly.... What kind of clutch is that you're running? Do they sale at tractor supply?
I just put a 212 on motovox i did and I know everyone has already done it im behind lol but my 212 just has got deleted and mikuni carb idk if the ppl before me did anything to it or not but man this thing is fast I need to get a billet flywheel
Motovox is a nice bike!
Stage one 212 vs stock 224? That would be interesting
The 212 would smoke the 224
They’re so close to the same size that you wouldn’t notice till you get on the top end
But slide carb and header on 212 would be a Big advantage
Where can I find a clutch and the chain ? How many teeth clutch do you have and size chain ?
Its a 10 too clutch and the stock #420 Coleman chain that came with the bike. GoPowerSports has both