About the Stray Kids segment, it didn't help matter the horrendous period the group and the fandom had that previous year. Between the absolute hate that Side Effects garnered in the internet and the subsequent attacks on the group and the whole Woojin leaving situation, fans were already getting extremely defensive and as we know, that can easily turn into very, very toxic behaviors. So any little thing after that can set people into doing some truly nasty things in the name of "protecting" the artists (I speak as a mostly first row witness of this, as a 2018 Stay) Edit: I fortunately wasn't around the spaces where the Woojin hate train was present. I was sad when he left and I got emotional whenever I listened to his voice on their songs for a while. I eventually moved on, wished him good luck and I left him in peace and I'm so glad that I dodged a bullet in regards to the hate train. Leave him alone, y'all!
I dunno about those stupid Atinys but Ateez deserved that award as much as TXT. Both are outstanding but Ateez's hardwork is just as underappreciated as TXT's due to them being from a pretty unknown company. Even though they debuted before TXT, they have only just started receiving global media attention but it is nowhere near like TXT. I love TXT but it is true that being from Hybe did help them
it's kind of sad tht other fandoms would drag skz and get hit twts every now and then but stays r the one who got blamed at the end, i don't think dragging other grps in defense is a good thing bcoz it isn't but the fact tht those ass ppl r free to drag skz and got no consequence is insane same with toxic part of stays being shitty asf towards other idols. it's so fcking sad to see terrible ppl saying sht but at the end of the day the idols r the one who got the hate
ateez has always had positions lmao, yunho main dancer, jongho main vocal etc, skz too they have units similar to svt, vocalracha, danceracha and 3racha, also bgs vs ggs is weird, why stan only one when you can do both
man, i just realised that i've been enjoying kpop sooo much less after i started using twitter. everything's so negative there to the point that i can say 'i like bts, my bias is rm' and so many people come at him for his looks, straight up insulting him. or 'my fav girlgroup is blackpink' and i get called basic and see a few comments calling the members wh0res. like man, that's so unprovoked and just wrong. can't say i dislike a song because someone will say 'it's not for you, don't talk about it if you don't like it'. i say i like a song and get called tasteless. like that really impacted the way i see the kpop community while being part of it.
I feel like all big Fandoms are toxic at this point. If you spent any time on Twitter you'd see the horrible things people say. It's so bad, the fanwars that it can turn a normal Stan into a toxic one in a matter of a few days. I think the fact that every group's Stan believe that they were the ones being attacked first and that they didn't do anything wrong that fuels a never ending fight. It truly feels like it never ends, the same arguments and the same time wasted each time a sta engages into this toxic behavior.
I just block everyone who is calling another group flops or generally looks down on other groups or starts/participates in fan wars. Makes the tl much more friendly
I also think that bangchan needs to grow up a little being the leader of your group and speaking negatively about other idols is not a good look. It’s not like he only did it to Woojin either but he’s called out idols for not being respectful. The way he knows he has such a big fandom that will attack other idols if he even speaks one bad word about them. It’s ridiculous how stays support his immature behavior sometimes. I understand Woojin leaving may have hurt him but when you are the leader of a group. You have to lead your group by example.
Actually Bangchan is not the only one who has pointed out the idol's rude behaviour, it was actually said by several 3rd and 4th Gen that many idols are rude. If he name dropped idols,that is not right but saying idols are rude is not something wrong. Just coz he calls out idols doesn't make him immature,infact, it is required to speak facts and bluntly for fans and idols to understand. And before you start some word about me being biased and a fan...I am not stay, I listen to their song casually
He didn’t specifically name any idols though, he mentioned how some juniors didn’t greet skz properly, and it’s well known that Chan is a polite person who takes politeness seriously
@@alesonu I don’t care if your a stay or not I’m allowed to have my opinion about him just like you are. My point still stand and you won’t change my mind
Firstly, thank you for the great video! I'm 4th gen stan and I started listening to kpop during it - it's great to hear a video essay that says the good, and the bad, without trashing it. For 3:52 - I'd say say every big3+HYBE group faces allegations that they're privileged, that they're popular only because of their company/seniors, ect. Babymonster is constantly - and I mean CONSTANTLY - compared to Blackpink, every new NCT sub-unit faces backlash the new members are riding off the older members' fame and hard work... And not to mention the whole Illit/NewJeans fiasco. I have noticed JYP suffers the least from such a thing, maybe because they produce a lot of groups, girl groups specifically. However, I would agree that TXT, in a way, have the biggest disadvantage with their seniors. I want to tell a small story from a while ago. I was talking with a friend of my mine a few months ago - she had listened kpop during 3rd gen and had moved past kpop as a whole since then. We were discussing kpop and she told me that she's actually glad BTS is in the military and taking a break from making music because then other groups (I think she spesified boy groups) will have more room to shine. I can't explain it but in that moment something in my brain clicked. For me, this explained so much or the girl groups >> boy groups thing. Since I have been into kpop, I haven't had the chance to experience it when BTS is having a comeback and this has effect on the current landscape of groups and their popularity. To put it simply - I believe all boy groups are living in BTS' shadow. This is huge part of the reason why girl groups took off so well. But the group that suffers the most is, undoubtedly, TXT. I have heard (since I haven't been here for this events) that TXT flopped in the beginning and took them a lot of work to clim back and prove their identity outside of being BTS' little brother. Honestly, any group, with any concept, that Bighit chose to debut after BTS would have suffered tremendously because of their seniors' enormous fame and would forever be in their shadow. Unfortunately, it's just how kpop fandom/community works and we can't do much about it. I have seen Itzy and VCHA being called Twice little sisters, Babymonster Blackpink's, ect. I personally find it sweet and I think it can have benefits, because sometimes the fandom of the older group will check out the new group. For Babymonster for example, this did a great job, as a lot of their fans were already blinks who wanted to support BP's little sister that BP personally mentored. However, in TXT case, this has only negative effect on them at this point. I personally would never call them BTS' little brother because I genuinely think they should cut all ties (in their public image) that associates them with BTS because this do them harm. I believe this has nothing to do with TXT personally but just with BTS larger than life presence. Their shadow is too long and it does more bad than good to "promote" their label-mates with it I gotta admit, I'm generally more of a girl groups stan but TXT is one of the few boy groups I genuinely like (the others being EXO and The KingDom) so I may be not the most informed person on the situation. So, all that being said, this is just my opinion and observations :) Thank you again for the great video! I loved watching it!
I get your points but I respectfully disagree with some of them. 1) The whole "BTS should step aside for a moment to let other groups shine" narrative doesn't make any sense to me. Other groups' success and failure isn't on BTS or any other groups. BTS was also shadowed by big groups such as Bigbang, EXO etc but they still managed to break through it. I'm sorry but in this world when it comes to work and achievement, everybody wants to be successful. For example in sports, you wouldn't expect other teams to go easy on you just to help you succeed. It doesn't make sense. You gotta work for it. And ofc I know that every idol out there works their ass off to succeed but again don't expect others to retract to let you shine. Why would BTS or any other groups step aside, go easy to help other shine when they work their ass off to be at the place they are right now?? Would you like it if your boss told you to step aside to let your junior experience your position that you worked hard for?? No cus you WORKED for it so should they. 2) Sorry but listening to kpop ain't a group project. Just because I love BTS, for example, doesn't mean I have to love every group related to them. Personally, as an ARMY, I lOVE TXT because their music is just my taste. However, I wouldn't be surprised if other Army don't. TXT ain't BTS, BTS ain't TXT. Their music, concept, ways of performing etc are vastly different from BTS's, which is a good thing for them cus it allows them to attract their own fans. 3)We all know that the general public has always preferred GG over BG. Most BG have always relied on their own fanbase support rather than general public. The reason is, it's way easier for people to be open to girls being all pretty, cuty etc rather than guys that's why GG have always had way more fanboys than BG. Blackpink is also really huge but does that really affect GG popularity in general?? No, cus again general public are way more comfortable with a group of girls dancing, singing and being pretty rather than a group of guys unless it's a group like Bigbang, where the guys were more in the masculine side which is not the case of a lot of BG. 4) I totally agree with you on the fact that TXT have it hard compared to their peers. People was always saying that they got their fame thanks to BTS and ARMY support, which is not really true since even tho a lot of ARMY were there in their debut era, most ARMY ain't MOA and there's nothing wrong with that, as I said listening to kpop ain't a group project. Kpop fans and media are the main reasons why TXT struggled so much. Even tho Bighit never really promoted them as BTS's little brother, everybody and their mothers kept pushing that narrative. Bighit could easily give TXT the same concept as BTS, the same kind of music to attract ARMY but they didn't. MOA are there because they are TXT, not because they are BTS's little brother. I gotta into them because of their music, their performances, and their talents, not because I love BTS to the core. It's good if Baemon get support from Blinks but don't expect ARMY to be there for TXT just because they are related to BTS. That is nonsense to me. Let them have their own fans who will always support them regardless of who they are related to. TXT definitely had it hard but I personally prefer that for them rather than a bunch of ARMY following them just for BTS.
@@meilichankan9282 I'm sorry but it seems you read entirely different comment from my own...? 1) I NEVER said BTS "should" do anything. What I said is that when they happen to take a break from music, other (boy) groups have more room to shine. I never ever said BTS should step down or something? I stated what i believe happens when they're less active. Idk why you took this from my comment, you're putting words in my month and you're arguing with something that was never said here. 2) Again, I never said just because you listen to X group, you should listen to Y group...? Again, I don't know what you read but it clearly wasn't my comment. All I said was that sometimes fans of the senior group go listen to their junior group and gave an example. I didn't say this ALWAYS happens and even less that this SHOULD happen. I really don't understand where you got this from my comment. 3) I personally disagree but this is entirely different debate that I don't intend of having. 4) Again, what comment you have read? Where I have said army """should""" support TXT? What?? I never said anything about army or moas or what fandoms should or shouldn't do. You're arguing and discussing something that was never said in my comment. I honestly think you either didn't read my comment carefully AT ALL. Or if you did and you took all of this out of it... it says way more about you than about me.
Ok. I get dancing is super important. But kpop is primarily singing. They release music, which is the main thing they do, so Yh being able to dance is important. But it very ironic that you’re someone who’s releasing music yet you can’t even sing. If your a good a dancer and can’t sing then be a dancer. You should be able to decently sing as a singer.
Agree. Not everyone can be Beyonce or should be Beyonce in terms of vocals. But being in a music group should mean one's decent at singing, quite good or okay. Not being able to sing a line that's not talking but being an amazing dancer doesn't really please me. At this point just become a background dancer, not an idol.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Mamushi (Remix) [feat. TWICE] [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5c0_u9PsrsQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Engenes Need a Reality Check [REUPLOAD]](/img/1.gif)
About the Stray Kids segment, it didn't help matter the horrendous period the group and the fandom had that previous year. Between the absolute hate that Side Effects garnered in the internet and the subsequent attacks on the group and the whole Woojin leaving situation, fans were already getting extremely defensive and as we know, that can easily turn into very, very toxic behaviors. So any little thing after that can set people into doing some truly nasty things in the name of "protecting" the artists
(I speak as a mostly first row witness of this, as a 2018 Stay)
Edit: I fortunately wasn't around the spaces where the Woojin hate train was present. I was sad when he left and I got emotional whenever I listened to his voice on their songs for a while. I eventually moved on, wished him good luck and I left him in peace and I'm so glad that I dodged a bullet in regards to the hate train.
Leave him alone, y'all!
I dunno about those stupid Atinys but Ateez deserved that award as much as TXT. Both are outstanding but Ateez's hardwork is just as underappreciated as TXT's due to them being from a pretty unknown company. Even though they debuted before TXT, they have only just started receiving global media attention but it is nowhere near like TXT.
I love TXT but it is true that being from Hybe did help them
it's kind of sad tht other fandoms would drag skz and get hit twts every now and then but stays r the one who got blamed at the end, i don't think dragging other grps in defense is a good thing bcoz it isn't but the fact tht those ass ppl r free to drag skz and got no consequence is insane same with toxic part of stays being shitty asf towards other idols. it's so fcking sad to see terrible ppl saying sht but at the end of the day the idols r the one who got the hate
RIP Moonbin ❤️❤️❤️ i loved the sibling collab stage so much... Poor moon sua 😭
ateez has always had positions lmao, yunho main dancer, jongho main vocal etc, skz too they have units similar to svt, vocalracha, danceracha and 3racha, also bgs vs ggs is weird, why stan only one when you can do both
man, i just realised that i've been enjoying kpop sooo much less after i started using twitter. everything's so negative there to the point that i can say 'i like bts, my bias is rm' and so many people come at him for his looks, straight up insulting him. or 'my fav girlgroup is blackpink' and i get called basic and see a few comments calling the members wh0res. like man, that's so unprovoked and just wrong. can't say i dislike a song because someone will say 'it's not for you, don't talk about it if you don't like it'. i say i like a song and get called tasteless. like that really impacted the way i see the kpop community while being part of it.
That’s why I don’t go on twitter, it makes it easier to ignore the negativity
I feel like all big Fandoms are toxic at this point. If you spent any time on Twitter you'd see the horrible things people say.
It's so bad, the fanwars that it can turn a normal Stan into a toxic one in a matter of a few days.
I think the fact that every group's Stan believe that they were the ones being attacked first and that they didn't do anything wrong that fuels a never ending fight. It truly feels like it never ends, the same arguments and the same time wasted each time a sta engages into this toxic behavior.
I just block everyone who is calling another group flops or generally looks down on other groups or starts/participates in fan wars. Makes the tl much more friendly
@@xxheart_breakerxx8732 omg me too, i don't wanna waste my energy on useless things lol
More people need to watch this
I also think that bangchan needs to grow up a little being the leader of your group and speaking negatively about other idols is not a good look. It’s not like he only did it to Woojin either but he’s called out idols for not being respectful. The way he knows he has such a big fandom that will attack other idols if he even speaks one bad word about them. It’s ridiculous how stays support his immature behavior sometimes. I understand Woojin leaving may have hurt him but when you are the leader of a group. You have to lead your group by example.
Actually Bangchan is not the only one who has pointed out the idol's rude behaviour, it was actually said by several 3rd and 4th Gen that many idols are rude. If he name dropped idols,that is not right but saying idols are rude is not something wrong. Just coz he calls out idols doesn't make him immature,infact, it is required to speak facts and bluntly for fans and idols to understand.
And before you start some word about me being biased and a fan...I am not stay, I listen to their song casually
He didn’t specifically name any idols though, he mentioned how some juniors didn’t greet skz properly, and it’s well known that Chan is a polite person who takes politeness seriously
@@alesonu I don’t care if your a stay or not I’m allowed to have my opinion about him just like you are. My point still stand and you won’t change my mind
Firstly, thank you for the great video! I'm 4th gen stan and I started listening to kpop during it - it's great to hear a video essay that says the good, and the bad, without trashing it.
For 3:52 - I'd say say every big3+HYBE group faces allegations that they're privileged, that they're popular only because of their company/seniors, ect. Babymonster is constantly - and I mean CONSTANTLY - compared to Blackpink, every new NCT sub-unit faces backlash the new members are riding off the older members' fame and hard work... And not to mention the whole Illit/NewJeans fiasco. I have noticed JYP suffers the least from such a thing, maybe because they produce a lot of groups, girl groups specifically.
However, I would agree that TXT, in a way, have the biggest disadvantage with their seniors.
I want to tell a small story from a while ago. I was talking with a friend of my mine a few months ago - she had listened kpop during 3rd gen and had moved past kpop as a whole since then. We were discussing kpop and she told me that she's actually glad BTS is in the military and taking a break from making music because then other groups (I think she spesified boy groups) will have more room to shine. I can't explain it but in that moment something in my brain clicked. For me, this explained so much or the girl groups >> boy groups thing. Since I have been into kpop, I haven't had the chance to experience it when BTS is having a comeback and this has effect on the current landscape of groups and their popularity.
To put it simply - I believe all boy groups are living in BTS' shadow. This is huge part of the reason why girl groups took off so well. But the group that suffers the most is, undoubtedly, TXT. I have heard (since I haven't been here for this events) that TXT flopped in the beginning and took them a lot of work to clim back and prove their identity outside of being BTS' little brother. Honestly, any group, with any concept, that Bighit chose to debut after BTS would have suffered tremendously because of their seniors' enormous fame and would forever be in their shadow. Unfortunately, it's just how kpop fandom/community works and we can't do much about it.
I have seen Itzy and VCHA being called Twice little sisters, Babymonster Blackpink's, ect. I personally find it sweet and I think it can have benefits, because sometimes the fandom of the older group will check out the new group. For Babymonster for example, this did a great job, as a lot of their fans were already blinks who wanted to support BP's little sister that BP personally mentored.
However, in TXT case, this has only negative effect on them at this point. I personally would never call them BTS' little brother because I genuinely think they should cut all ties (in their public image) that associates them with BTS because this do them harm. I believe this has nothing to do with TXT personally but just with BTS larger than life presence. Their shadow is too long and it does more bad than good to "promote" their label-mates with it
I gotta admit, I'm generally more of a girl groups stan but TXT is one of the few boy groups I genuinely like (the others being EXO and The KingDom) so I may be not the most informed person on the situation. So, all that being said, this is just my opinion and observations :) Thank you again for the great video! I loved watching it!
U love kingdom and txt too yessssss
@@brennathecatlover4360 ofc 😭❤️
@@ladymoon7327 I saw them during their last tour and I can’t wait for that tour they said hopefully this year lol I’m talking about kingdom
I get your points but I respectfully disagree with some of them.
1) The whole "BTS should step aside for a moment to let other groups shine" narrative doesn't make any sense to me. Other groups' success and failure isn't on BTS or any other groups. BTS was also shadowed by big groups such as Bigbang, EXO etc but they still managed to break through it. I'm sorry but in this world when it comes to work and achievement, everybody wants to be successful. For example in sports, you wouldn't expect other teams to go easy on you just to help you succeed. It doesn't make sense. You gotta work for it. And ofc I know that every idol out there works their ass off to succeed but again don't expect others to retract to let you shine. Why would BTS or any other groups step aside, go easy to help other shine when they work their ass off to be at the place they are right now?? Would you like it if your boss told you to step aside to let your junior experience your position that you worked hard for?? No cus you WORKED for it so should they.
2) Sorry but listening to kpop ain't a group project. Just because I love BTS, for example, doesn't mean I have to love every group related to them. Personally, as an ARMY, I lOVE TXT because their music is just my taste. However, I wouldn't be surprised if other Army don't. TXT ain't BTS, BTS ain't TXT. Their music, concept, ways of performing etc are vastly different from BTS's, which is a good thing for them cus it allows them to attract their own fans.
3)We all know that the general public has always preferred GG over BG. Most BG have always relied on their own fanbase support rather than general public. The reason is, it's way easier for people to be open to girls being all pretty, cuty etc rather than guys that's why GG have always had way more fanboys than BG. Blackpink is also really huge but does that really affect GG popularity in general?? No, cus again general public are way more comfortable with a group of girls dancing, singing and being pretty rather than a group of guys unless it's a group like Bigbang, where the guys were more in the masculine side which is not the case of a lot of BG.
4) I totally agree with you on the fact that TXT have it hard compared to their peers. People was always saying that they got their fame thanks to BTS and ARMY support, which is not really true since even tho a lot of ARMY were there in their debut era, most ARMY ain't MOA and there's nothing wrong with that, as I said listening to kpop ain't a group project. Kpop fans and media are the main reasons why TXT struggled so much. Even tho Bighit never really promoted them as BTS's little brother, everybody and their mothers kept pushing that narrative. Bighit could easily give TXT the same concept as BTS, the same kind of music to attract ARMY but they didn't. MOA are there because they are TXT, not because they are BTS's little brother. I gotta into them because of their music, their performances, and their talents, not because I love BTS to the core. It's good if Baemon get support from Blinks but don't expect ARMY to be there for TXT just because they are related to BTS. That is nonsense to me. Let them have their own fans who will always support them regardless of who they are related to. TXT definitely had it hard but I personally prefer that for them rather than a bunch of ARMY following them just for BTS.
@@meilichankan9282 I'm sorry but it seems you read entirely different comment from my own...?
1) I NEVER said BTS "should" do anything. What I said is that when they happen to take a break from music, other (boy) groups have more room to shine. I never ever said BTS should step down or something? I stated what i believe happens when they're less active. Idk why you took this from my comment, you're putting words in my month and you're arguing with something that was never said here.
2) Again, I never said just because you listen to X group, you should listen to Y group...? Again, I don't know what you read but it clearly wasn't my comment. All I said was that sometimes fans of the senior group go listen to their junior group and gave an example. I didn't say this ALWAYS happens and even less that this SHOULD happen. I really don't understand where you got this from my comment.
3) I personally disagree but this is entirely different debate that I don't intend of having.
4) Again, what comment you have read? Where I have said army """should""" support TXT? What?? I never said anything about army or moas or what fandoms should or shouldn't do. You're arguing and discussing something that was never said in my comment.
I honestly think you either didn't read my comment carefully AT ALL. Or if you did and you took all of this out of it... it says way more about you than about me.
Antifragile is not “noise music”. It’s such a minimalistic track 😭
Ok. I get dancing is super important. But kpop is primarily singing. They release music, which is the main thing they do, so Yh being able to dance is important. But it very ironic that you’re someone who’s releasing music yet you can’t even sing. If your a good a dancer and can’t sing then be a dancer. You should be able to decently sing as a singer.
Agree. Not everyone can be Beyonce or should be Beyonce in terms of vocals. But being in a music group should mean one's decent at singing, quite good or okay. Not being able to sing a line that's not talking but being an amazing dancer doesn't really please me. At this point just become a background dancer, not an idol.
Poor TXT😭
Depends