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If your friends immediately think they need to act like you're a sexual predator when you come out despite you never giving them any reason to believe so, they're not your friends.
I would be more worried about them being predators themselves to be honest... "Oh my god, you are a creep that hid to see me naked" automatically after you tell them makes me think that they would creep on every man they could and that's where the idea came from... sure, could not be the case, but every guy that I heard using that argument on gays were exactly like this... so I am unfortunately too used to straights being HORRIBLE and projecting to not be biased against the ones who use THAT kind of argument... It might be different in a group of friends where joking about having sex with each other or dating each other is normal, because then they can think you weren't joking at all but "testing the waters" with them, but thinking you are necessarily preying on them without any kind of previous indication of that being a possibility always gives me a bad vibe. In my friend group as teens we had a gay guy and nobody ever worried about him or his jokes even when those jokes were pretty strong because we knew he wasn't a creep, when he got a boyfriend in the other hand, that guy made everyone nervous by being a creep and it wasn't about homophobia but about having a creep entering the group. And when our friend saw what a creep his boyfriend was they broke up immediately and nobody was nervous about him afterwards...
Right, imagine if person acted that way because they were straight lol. They would be shocked Being part of the lgbtq community doesn't mean you oggle your friends
My (female) friend told me that when her friend told her she was bi, she acted a bit similar as OP's friend in the first story (she was a teen and she didn't accuse her friend but just thought that maybe her friend has looked at her sexually the whole time), asking her "omg but does that mean you like me?". Her friend then said "No, you're not my type. Do YOU like EVERY guy you see since you're attracted to men?" and since then my friend understood. I've told many people the same thing even before that as well.he
This is exactly the reason I am not coming out right now I’m still in high school, and there’s still a lot of queerphobia in my school, and I don’t feel safe coming out right now in this environment because I now I’ll be treated differently if I do I came out to my best friend a few weeks ago, and fortunately she was quite understanding
This is how I made my husband understand same sex couples. When our nephew came out he said he wasn't sure he comfortable with our kids hanging out with him anymore, (nephew is quite a bit older than our boys bc my husband is 19yrs older than me). I asked him if he was attracted to my female cousins, Aunts, mother, grandmother and/or all female presenting people? He seemed offended when saying "NO!" Then slowly started nodding his head in understanding.
You'd be surprised how often I have retorted with essentially that, only to have them still be uncomfortable/awkward and I had to give up on the friendship. I think a decent percentage of straight women really assume every man is somewhat attracted to them and cannot interact with men normally because they have wholeheartedly bought into the idea that "men and women can't be friends" (and as for bi people, I guess we get no friends? lol...)
Had a toxic friend who flipped out when my best friend and i came out to the group as queer because she was convinced that we're gonna start dating (which idk why that would be a problem in the first place). We told her that assuming we'll date just cuz we both like women is the same as if we assumed that she and our guy friend are going to date cuz they're both straight. In her words "it's not the same thing" apparently.
People offering unsolicited and unwanted "help" is one of my pet peeves, especially when that "help" is strongly biased by the "helper's" own agenda, values, and personal preferences.
@@FrostyShadowYT True, lying might be hard and against what the person believes. They could have said that they know exactly what the problem is, that the guy doesn't produce any sperm, there is no hope for him to ever have children of his own, and that's all the info you're getting. It's shitty that they felt forced to tell the whole truth, instead of just some form of truth, and a very snarky "none of your business".
I think I would have told them - in a 'how dare you bring up a sensitive topic' way - "I have a condition where I was born without testicles. Are you happy now?"
The person struggling to decide if their brother can bring a man to the wedding should consider not inviting the bigoted extended family members who would cause the problem.
Yeah try to uninvite for example a spanish extended family workout causing a crapstorm (hint: you can't), plus many people have been traumatized into being doormats for their family (I know such people, yes, even queer ones, and it hurts them a LOT).. "just don't invite family" is easy for some of us (me included) and nigh impossible for others.
@@theaureliasys6362 exactly, my grandma's got grand ideas about "wokism" and just, no. I couldn't uninvite her, she'd crash the wedding anyway, but it would also make it my problem to deal with her tantrum, and that's just not something you can ask anyone, even for something as important as a coming out. At least not the ceremony proper.
@@laurelyn The bigots also might be helping financially, especially with the wedding itself. I'm really glad people are pointing this out, because yes coming out actively/ inactively, if, how, and when is an individual's choice, but there are consequences to it and you can't make people agree to it when it involves them. Like this wedding, or a non-closeted being expected to hide their relationship from certain people.
Honestly, the idea of these big weddings with a lot of extended family that the couple usually doesn't even like sound like a total nightmare to me. I have heard so many women who basically sacrificed their big day to "keep the calm". If I ever get married, I will probably do like my cousin, no family just the two of them, with the photographer as a witness.
@@marial870 Unfortunately, some people can't because of fudging flying monkeys or just getting a lot of shit from everyone, but yeah, being able to invite who I want would be a dream
Fertility parents never once considered that daughter might not want to carry another pregnancy. Like not only is there inherent danger in being pregnant, but she might have gone through some stuff that she didn't like and doesn't want to go through again. As for 'allowing' someone into their family, my response would be that I get to allow people into my family too, and that includes disallowing people who try to control my relationships AND MY BODY. Holy smokes!
As for 'they were coming from a good place', they absolutely were not. They were coming from a place of control. Nobody who is trying to control somebody else is 'coming from a good place'. They may not consider their intentions to be bad, but they are. Categorically. Objectively.
@@emisformakeryeah, I feel like OP is probably a good person who tries to see the best in everyone. So she is missing how insidiously manipulative it was of her parents to do that. What an awful invasion.
Hell she might not have gone through anything, and could've had a completely blissful pregnancy (minus I'm sure labor because I'm sure that cannot be avoided) and still not want to be pregnant again just simply because she wants to go with another option. That should have been perfectly okay and reasonable enough for the parents.
Oh totally. People can choose adoption and don't owe Pregnancy to anyone. The patents asked if they went to a clinic and they said no, choosing adoption. It could have been the husband knew or could have suspected he was infertile from prior to getting together. Maybe something traumatic did happen and he lost the ability to make sperm And didn't want to go through that exhausting process with his wife now. The couple shouldn't have to say. "No we didn't go to a fertility clinic bc we know the sperm isn't there or won't work and that's why we are choosing adoption." To get people to accept their decision. No. We are going to adopt. Period. The end.
I am a trans man, however, i spent nearly 37 years of my life presenting female. I have wanted to adopt since I was five years old. You'd be amazed how many people (not my family thankfully) have the audacity to insist that you should bear a child. They get very upset when you point out how it sounds when they insist that bearing a child is somehow preferable to giving a home to a child who needs it.
That's awesome! I've wanted to bear my own kids someday since approximately the same age, and I love that you specifically want to adopt! I always feel a little guilty for wanting to birth my own child rather than give a home to a child who already needs it. And if it turns out I'm infertile or something, I probably will adopt. But I think it's wonderful that adoption is your FIRST choice. That's got to be so reassuring to your future child!
Seriously. Why is a child any less deserving of your love just because it's not made from you? A dog doesn't deserve any less love because it's not made of *my* cum or eggs or whatever, and it's not hard to love it either so why would a human be any different? If reproduction is so important to you, then go, have fun making all the important babies. Oh you don't want to have ten children? Wow, how terrible it would be if somebody pressured you with no respect to your right to choose your life.
I'm glad your family is good about it. My father told me "Well I think it's worth the risk for real grandkids". And yes, for him real=biological 🤬. And the "risk" was my doctor saying she thought there was about a 50% chance I would survive to viability. My father wanted me to **risk my life** to do something I've never wanted to do, just so he could have grandkids that share his genes. Jokes on him, even if I manage to adopt he will not have grandkids, he will not be involved.
We had some of our outwardly queer friends come to our wedding. (My partner and are are straight-passing). I fairly plainly informed my homophobic relatives that there would be queer couples on the day, and if they weren't comfortable attending without saying anything unkind, to just not come. That part of my family opted not to come, and also aren't really in my life anymore. Haven't officially cut ties, but we don't really talk, and eventually they'll find out I'm non binary and cut me off anyway. Good riddance.
My brother didn't officially come out to my parents. They asked him why he didn't tell them. He answered: Did my sister (me) have to tell you she was straight..?
While that's how it should be I couldn't deal with for example bringing a boyfriend over when visiting my parents when I didn't know their reaction yet
I came out as bi to my mother when I wanted to introduce her to my girlfriend and ahe acted all betrayed and shit, I told her exactly this but she still didn't get it lol. I mean we never had a relationship in which we told each other much personal stuff so it didn't come up until it needed to, I'm still confused by this reaction. I get that being hetero is the most common thing but why should we treat is as the default?
Yah it’s unfortunate - my teen nephew told us all in the fam he was gay so that was well known. But it was so natural he just told me about his crush for several weeks and then eventually mentioned oh yah he’s trans. I was like ohhhhh and then simply reminded him about contraceptives “give the talk” but otherwise gave him a pep talk to ask his crush on a date. I like to think we were a good aunt and uncle raising him for a couple years and supporting him after his mom died 🥰 now they’re engaged and their baby is due late this year since they moved out of state a year ago. All that is to say is it’s sad that kids would have to “come out” anymore and they should be able to say “so and so is my crush…” or “I’m dating X” without any pretext of worrying about reactions. But I know not all households are so welcoming.
As a lesbian, I can tell you I do not stare at friends as they change. We have changed in front of each other periodically and I do not stare. It is a matter of respect not sexual attraction. That first story makes me sad. I hope she gets a proper support group
These 'friends' are projecting. If they were changing in a mixed sex change room, they would totally be creeping on all the people they find attractive, and this is so deep-seated in their attitudes that they can't imagine another person not acting like a creep in an equivalent situation.
@@mamasimmerplays4702 Bad as this probably is to say, I think I get where this is coming from. As a straight male, if I were to find myself in a mixed changing room, while I don't see myself staring I don't know if I'd exactly trust myself not to sneak a peek either. It's probably different for same sex situations though, I know for me, I didn't grow up using mixed changing rooms so I wouldn't be quite as used to them in general.
As a gay amab person I js don't like changing in front of ppl or ppl changing in front of me (depending on the extent of undress) bc it makes me uncomfortable. It's not a sexual attraction thing. It's js not something I want to do.
I am female and I have bisexual/lesbian friends. I have never felt uncomfortable changing in front of them because honestly, they have the same body parts I do, just seeing a boob isn’t that shocking to them! If they were attracted to me specifically I may not change in front of them (just like I would not change in front of/sleep in the same bed of a male who was attracted to me because that’s not respecting their feelings if I don’t feel the same way). But just like not every straight man is attracted to me, not every sapphic woman is attracted to me! I don’t understand why that’s so hard for people to understand! I mean, is every allosexual straight woman attracted to every man? (As asexual I guess I can’t rule that out…)
like im just imagining the trans/cis couple who is adopting, if the man was cis but had lost his testicles from a tumor or accident, imagine having to tell your inlaws, hey, i have no balls, wtf.
Or if he'd had mumps as an adult. Or had a vasectomy and wasn't a good candidate for reversal. There are tons of possible reasons...those inlaws were thinking more of themselves than of their daughter and son-in-law.
22:32 Question for these parents: "Why do you think the functionality of your _son-in-law's reproduce system_ is any of your business? That's just _weird!_ They told you they're adopting. The issue of fertility was answered then and there. Angry additional questions from you are prying into private parts."
Sadly my parents think my reproductive system and chest are their business. Even though pregnancy would've been life threatening for me. My doc told me it was really good I didn't ever want to be pregnant, because there was about a 50% chance I would live to viability. My father's response "Well I think it's worth the risk for real grandkids". And yes, by "real" he means "biological". Also when he "figured out" I wanted top surgery (as if my hatred of my chest has ever been a secret, oh wait, it never was) he said "You're going to ruin my life". Then I started working on scheduling a hysterectomy I was "informed" I was not allowed to get one and they would stop it if I went to the hospital. So of course I got one anyway, and when I got to the hospital I just informed security, check-in, everyone, that if anyone showed up looking for me to not even confirm I'm a patient. So basically he has absolutely no idea why I barely ever talk to him. My mother just pretends I never came out and, very badly, tries to gaslight me into believing I never did and it was all a figment of my imagination.
a@@waffles3629 I take it that you're not cis, then. I, Internet Uncle-Gay🏳🌈, support you! And say that your parents are _creepy._ And my response to the, "real grandchildren," idea would be to tell him, "Why're so fixated on propagating your genes? What are you, a monkey or something?"
I came out as trans on my 30th birthday. Outside of my family & wife, everyone left. Took their gifts too - and even asked for refunds for the PayPal money they sent. I didn’t send it back. Idc if I’m the AH. I’m still the same gd person, just transitioning. These stories kinda bug me severely based on the other food reactions.
They brought presents to a birthday party, damn right you shouldn't give that money back. Mostly because they're being bigoted transphobic a-holes, but also, if you decide to end a relationship where the other person hasn't like actively been cruel to you, why would you ask that other person to return gifts you've given them? That's so rude and unnecessary. Maybe if you'd given them a family heirloom or something... But no, even then, the fault is with you giving away something that you actually wanted to keep. 🤷
My Geography teacher adopted a kid and nobody in his classes have asked why. I'm gonna remind you we're 7th graders AND he's said that this is the worst year of students he's had in terms or being rude, yet we're still more mature than those parents.
Yeah, a lot of rowdy "young people" have way better manners than the "sophisticated" adults. Btw, I think you might want to delete the part in your post that refers to age. RUclips is quicker at banning accounts from teens than at banning those from creeps that prey on them.
@@AmarisFrede yeah, the amount of times older people have told me stuff that would be absolutely out of line from younger people, but of course, they're older so I have to just fucking listen or *I'm* the problem, is oustounding. Probably doesn't help that I have a big case of baby face, but _still_
Bro if that teacher had the last name Nicholls, I’m that adopted kid, or it’s a crazy coincidence that both that teacher and my dad are geography teachers that teach 7th grade and adopted a child lmao
With the trans husband/fertility one, omg those parents were so insensitive! There are NUMEROUS reasons people would want to adopt, instead of having biological children, trans or not! I don’t think OP ever even brought up fertility as an issue, so why would the parents jump immediately to that being the only possible reason?! And the entitlement of “we wouldn’t have spent the money if we’d known”. You shouldn’t have spent the money anyway! Maybe ask more questions, first! If fertility were the only issue, I’m sure OP would have brought it up before! Even if they were a cis couple, they could want to adopt because: - One of them might have severe health issues or something in their family history that they don’t want to risk passing on to their children - OP might not have wanted to go through the ordeal of pregnancy and giving birth (I personally find the idea of pregnancy terrifying, so that’s a big reason I would prefer to adopt) - They might just genuinely prefer the idea of adoption. There are so many kids in the adoption and foster care system, and being able to give an adopted child a loving home is a beautiful thing. - and many, MANY other reasons could be made! Just…. GAH! That one really got under my skin. 😤
OP even went through a pregnancy before, so she could've very well realised how hard that is on your body and decided to not want to do that again! Possible ofc also a mixture of several of those factors. If I ever wanted children I'd definitely want to adopt for several of those reasons and I know other people who feel the same. It's absurd to me that the parents jumped to conclusions about fertility immedeatly instead of taking any other of these potential factors into consideration. They seem to consider adoption to be not even plan b, not even c but probably plan f or something, a less valid way to become parents of you can help doing it differently
All of this! Even if they were a cis couple, no one has the rights to know someone else's medical history, paying for someone to see a fertility specialist is such a violation of privacy. Literally the only way this would have been ok would be if OP and hubs asked for help in paying a specialist or maybe if it's known they're saving money to do so and you want to help them out financially. Any other time it's not your business to meddle. Urgh! This type of stuff really bothers me. I mean, even as a allocishet woman you need to ward of so many people who want to tell you that you'll want children, even if you tell them you don't. An older colleague once told me that I'm apparently wrong about my own feelings and that I'll change my mind once my "biological clock starts ticking". I actually want children even less now, but I really wish I'd have just shut down that shit earlier when it happened. People really need to stop getting into other people's business like this. Don't ask people when/if they want/will have children. Maybe even don't ask about weddings. Don't comment on other people's bodies. Just wait for people to give you the infos they want to share. I'm somewhat hopeful of this becoming more the norm, afterall many people have come to realise they need to wait for a person to come out, so maybe we can have a more widespread understanding of minding one's business in the future.
@@CarinaCoffee I had a medical professional tell me the same. As if the slow realization that the only reason I wanted to be a parent was to prove I'd be better than my parents would suddendly dissappear. Living in a culture where I'm at least allowed to never have children is honestly life-saving, both my own and the potential child's. I would have been an absolutely horrrible parent.
Also, it shows how they really feel about adopted children. The "gift" was never for OP and her husband, it was always about the parents/inlaws fulfilling their own wishes for bio grandkids. They are pretending they had good intentions so they get to be the clueless innocent victim when they aren't getting their way. The husband coming out was just more fuel for them to use. It sounds like the manipulation was working, I hope OP realized and put her foot down. No sympathy, if you give an inch, they'll take a mile. They don't deserve to meet their future grandkids.
@@Magic_Skeleton yes, it seems to fall into that thing a lot of people still seem to be hung up on, that you're only "normal" or "worthy" when you reproduce naturally. They can't seem to fathom how anyone would not want that. And that it's like a right to have grandchildren that way because they went through the trouble of having you.
That first one is so sad. As a straight woman, if I was the first person a gay friend came out to I'd be so happy that she trusted me so much. What a twunt OP's "friend" was.
Ikr. If my friend came out to me, her being a creep wouldn't even cross my mind. But that's because I'm a normal rational person who doesn't think people are creepy unless they ACT CREEPY. They literally had no reason to think she had bad intentions. They just think gay people are creeps by default which is not okay.
I'm a cis guy and I don't want any bio kids. There are multiple health reasons as to why I don't want to do this. Fertility literally doesn't matter in this case. There are tons of reasons to adopt and all of them are perfectly valid.
As an adoptee who knows that my only "real" parents are the ones who raised me with love, I resent the parents' implication that adoption is less legit than a child who is a genetic match for their parents. Also, none of parents' #$#! business.
Yeah, it just makes me sad, and mad, at how many people don't consider adoption valid. I'm not adopted, but I've known since childhood that I only wanted to become a parent through adoption. My parents "don't agree" with that. My father even told me "It's worth the risk for real grandkids". "The risk" being my life btw. Yeah, jokes on him, he won't have any grandkids regardless of how many I adopt.
As someone who is currently going through the adoption process, definitely this. I don’t care if my children are biological me, look like me, or anything. We were loosely trying for bio children for a few years (always with the idea to adopt another kid too) and it’s not happening, but I have no sadness or regret about that. We did not look into the fertility issues.
For the guy worried about his relatives at the wedding. I think the OP should go to the homophobic relatives and say, “hey, there will be several lgbtq couples at our wedding. If you cannot be respectful to them and not make it a big deal, you are not welcome to come.” That way no one has to be outed AND you can make sure everyone will be respected at the wedding.
Absolutely - part of having a wedding is taking care of your guests, so the same way you'd tell the caterer that so-and-so had an allergy, it's the couple's responsibility to protect their queer guests from homophobic family.
It makes me so sad when people act like their friend’s a creep when they come out as queer to them like in the first post It hurts much more especially knowing that op finally trusted their friend enough to come out to them, and they react like this :(
I've had multiple friends come out to me by first saying "I love you as a friend but I'm not attracted to you" I thought it was really weird because like "duh like when I thought you were straight?" Now I see they were preparing for people like that
yeah, even if I was interested in getting the service in general, I would NOT go to a place that accepts money from a stranger in my name without ever consulting me
I feel so sad for the first OP. She actually thought she might've been the AH, because her "friends" are horrible. The protective side of me just wants to hug her and tell her, in no uncertain terms, that she did nothing wrong.
even if the child was open to fertilty treatment, who in their right mind would just choose a doctor/clinic for them? What has happend to talking to people? If you want to support your child on their fertility journey, you can offer that... you can tell them you are happy to look at clinics with them, pay for something, etc. you don't go and make appointments... ffs.
@@syd6654 Right? I'm not sure what all the laws are but I don't think I would want to trust a doctor who would let someone else "surprise" me with a medical appointment like that. Idk it feels like there's too many opportunities for abuse. In this specific case, even if OP and husband were both cis and could have bio kids, this appointment would have still been manipulative bc they're using the fact that they sunk so much money, that they weren't asked for, to guilt their kid into doing what they want. And idk I think that's something a medical professional should be considering. Unless the patient has explicitly said "this person has permission to make appointments for me" it shouldn't be allowed to just make an appointment for another adult like that.
@@syd6654making an appointment for someone else is not hard as long as you know their ID details. I make appointment for my mother-in-law regularly because she has care needs and it is easier for her (she lives with us and we take care of her, go to appointments with her, etc) I don’t hide that I am making an appointment for someone else, but it has never been an issue. And if I didn’t say the appointment is not for me, as long as I give them the required info they wouldn’t know. I have also made dentist etc appointments for my partner like making an appointment for him at the same time as for me. Granted it’s usually in cases where he is already a patient there, but even if I did not say the appointment is for someone else, it would be easy to clock as I am a woman making an appointment for a man.
First story- god her friends are really flattering themselves here! Im bi but that doesnt mean that i find every single person attractive! Just because someone has a certain sexuality doesnt mean that they are attracted to every one of that gender and doesnt mean that they will always be creepy or staring its ridiculous!!
Apparently is common enough between straights being a creep that they automatically assume we are creeps... just as is common enough between straights to be cheaters that when they find a bisexual they automatically think we want to be with a man and a woman simultaneously cheating both of them... my uncle thinks I want to have sex with any woman he brings home and I say "hi" to because that's how he acts... I always said and will keep thinking until PROVEN wrong that they project their own weirdness on us.
It is strange. A lot of people have dealt with one-sided attraction from both sides, even sexual harassment, and yet straight people aren't usually disgusted or scared about the idea of like, having co-workers be of a different gender even though they could technically develope a crush on you. Maybe it has something to do with of how we deal with fear. Like you might be scared of a bear or a spider coming towards you, even though it's far more likely to run away because humans are dangerous and vengeful. Maybe if you see queer people as a threat, you fear a personal attack even when we just want to be at peace and would rather stay far away from queerphobes. Whatever the case, hopefully that attitude continues to lose popularity.
@@justaperson4656 I remember a post (don't ask me where was it posted) where someone said "men and women can't be friends" and the answers where "bisexuals can have friends, there's only prey" and "bi-lociraptor screeches in the distance, the hunt has begun"... that was the funniest take on that I ever seen... 🤣
In regards to the guy asking his brother to come out to extended family because of their families, religious beliefs. how I’m going to get around this at my wedding is I am going to add into my invitations that people of all different backgrounds, sexual orientations and pronouns will be attending my wedding and that I expect everybody to be treated with respect.
For me on the wedding one, I have to somewhat agree with the poster. In some personal celebration like that they really should be the center. There is a parallel in my life with one of my sister-in-law's 70'th birthday, (she is significantly older that my spouse, my spouse being the baby in the family, there being more than 20 years age gap between them) and my having come out as trans. When the party was set everyone invited I had not come out to yet. I made a point to come out to them BEFORE the party as I didn't want to setup a situation where it would shift attention away from my sister-in-law at her own party. I'd honestly have to say both are assholes in that situation to some degree. The one with the wedding should not be forcing someone out..... and the person who isn't out shouldn't be outing themselves at someone elses wedding.
28:48 This is the "I'm entitled to have grandkids" attitude turned up to 100 & with intense transphobia. I've seen pressure like this from parents of cishet couples and it's the same inappropriate invasion of privacy. One couple told me that while they had been receiving this inappropriate pressure, they had been struggling with infertility and actively getting medical tests & intervention. They didn't share because it wasn't anyone else's business that they were trying to get pregnant. The parents in this story were absolutely in the wrong and invading privacy in a massive way.
22:27 If they had been trying to get pregnant for a while and it wasn't happening, and they had expressed to the parents that this was distressing them but they couldn't afford fertility treatment, or wanted to save their money for something else, or thought they should try for longer first even though it was upsetting them that it wasn't happening, I can see this being a nice and thoughtful surprise, but if they've expressed that they want to adopt and are not interested in pursuing having biological kids, that choice must be respected. These parents are ignoring what their child has said she wants, and trying to pressure her into something she doesn't want by pushing it on her as a "gift" is not only inappropriate, it's manipulative.
even if it was the first case, its is very violating to book someone for any appointment without their consent or even in their knowledge. its a very weird idea of a "suprise", if the parents knew their daughter tried for a baby but was having problems and it was distressing the couple and they wanted to help, they should talk to them about a consolidation that they're willing to pay for themselves. it's just.... very inappropriate no matter what
@@AstronomicalJelly I agree. What I am wondering however is, how is it even possible to book such an appointment for someone else, without their prior consent. Like, how does that work? What kind of Clinic is that? I mean, they even got to the point where they payed for it beforehand. What clinic does that? What about privacy laws? patient confidentiality?
@@maganatalia8432A lot of normal doctors are scheduling online these days, it wouldn't surprise me if fertility clinics did the same. The last few doctors I've been to, they only asked for ID when I actually got there.
In regards to the one about the parents needing to prove how they are not getting pregnant the so called regular way. If the man was cisgender and had a low sperm count why would they have to know about it and it seems like they would be humiliating him for being deficient in front of everyone?! WTF!!??
Around 7 months into the pregnancy my sibling chose to tell us that it's a test tube baby and left it at that, no further details. Considering how the topic was obviously painful I can't imagine how horrible it'd have been for them to not only talk about it before they were ready, but to be pressured into giving specific details.
The first one, it's so weird. No one expects anybody to introduce themselves as, "Hi, my name's X, and I'm straight." No one! Why do they think everyone who is not straight needs to include that the first time they meet? They don't insist on anyone they *assume* to be straight on clarifying. I have never met anyone who asked, "Just so I know up front, are you straight or...?" Nobody does that! This girl's friends are SO WEIRD for insisting she should have told them that when they met! Right on about the wedding. Jamie spitting facts.
It's totally possible, but paperwork has to be signed first by the patient in question. My partner can make appointments for me at a couple doctors offices. Mostly for neurology, because scheduling an infusion for migraine is kinda difficult when you are in a full blown migraine.
I was just telling my family member how obsessed my mother is with me having sex. I’m a 21 year old bisexual single virgin and she will always make comments “will you ever have sex?” “Do you even want a boyfriend?” Like gtfo of my business! My sex future life is for me (and my partner) not for you.
@@MaddoxEzman ugh, my father is the same way and it sucks. For context I'm non-binary and ace. He almost caused me to crash the car that I was driving in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic because he absolutely loves to have conversations in cars "because no matter how much you hate it you can't escape". Yikes, saying the quiet part out loud there. Anyway, I was 19 and he decided to start a conversation with "You know, sex isn't that bad". 🤦 Which REALLY doesn't sell it. Imagine if someone came up to you and said "Wanna try my bread? It's not that bad". Uh no, pass. Needless to say that despite carpooling with him, I did not speak to him outside of explicitly necessary communication for a few weeks. He ended up forbidding me from getting a hysterectomy. Yeah, that worked exactly as well as you'd think, I had surgery and he got mad.
9:20 EXACTLY. I was listening to this and growling “well even IF he did come out people would STILL WHISPER??!!” While aggressively cleaning my stove top 😂👹
I can just imagine your arm quickly and aggressively swinging back and forth across the stove top while you have your device set up on the counter and there's soap suds flying everywhere 😂
I’m kind of of the opposite opinion - I think he should get the coming-out over with before he’s in the same room with the potentially homophobic people who may or may not be drunk. But then I read way too many “wedding drama” stories where people ABSOLUTELY WILL make a scene. Whispers are one thing, screaming, fights, and insults are another.
@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx yeah and the brothers nor even really FORCING him to come out either. He's just saying "hey please don't bring the boyfriend, for this reason." That's not forcing.
RUclipss redemption arc going from recommending me post-2018 PragerU shit now recommending a petition for justice against a murder of a lesbian in Brazil, you finally have relevant ads
Cis/Het gal here: To all my trans sisters, non binary & femme siblings, more than happy to have you in the same bathroom, I hope you have a safe and peaceful piss
i like to say i would feel more comfortable with a trans man or trans woman or both then the person who said they were uncomfortable to have them in the bathroom like bro we’re all just trying to piss you’re the one making it weird
People think they're entitled to other people's business when they're not, people want to know what your sexual orientation is, if you're in a wheelchair they demand to know your disability, your pronouns, etc. 😫
35:04 i think what he meant by "women do it all the time, regardless of sexuality" is that girls in general who are friends compliment each other in "flirty" ways all the time, so it's weird to have an issue with men doing the same thing. idk if that's what it is, but my friends do that with each other and i(ftm who's friends are mostly either other trans guys or sapphics) feel like i see it at me school a lot. my friend and i literally blow kisses across the room all the time but neither of us like the other romantically. it's a normal thing to do and weird that the op is uncomfortable only with guys doing it
Those fertility test parents sound like a nightmare. I can't fathom being that entitled to dictate someone's choices about family planning. I would be ashamed of myself if I lost my mind and in a moment of insanity overstepped that way. I would also feel badly if I made an in-law feel like they couldn't come out to me. Those parents are absolutely the AHs.
As a bisexual i hid in the single bathroom stall and got changed in there. I felt weird changing in front of so many girls. Of course I find out now Im trans.
I’m a cis girl and I used to get in trouble for changing in the bathroom because I wasn’t comfortable changing in front of anybody because I was bullied a lot (more from boys but both genders so I didn’t trust anybody).
Yep, I was never comfortable with it. I was constantly told I should be "because they're the same gender". Like okkkk? What does that have to go with anything? So many people would "explain" it to me by saying "But wouldn't you find it so much more uncomfortable to change in front of boys?". Nope, that would be just as uncomfortable.
Is anyone comfortable changing in front of others? Im non binary and cant grasp the idea of being comfortable changing in front of others. Im not even comfortable at the doctors office.
@@AnnabethOwl I was less comfortable changing in front of others when I was a teenager and less comfortable in myself and my body, but nowadays I've no problem with it. I just assume that, like me, everyone in the changing room is focusing on getting themselves changed and not looking at or judging others. And, those that are looking at and judging others are creeps so I don't care about them.
0:15 I'm so used to asshole being used metaphorically that I don't really think about it, but butthole feels way more graphic because if you say that I actually imagine a butthole.
There are so many biological reasons a cis couple may need to adopt. Inlaws have no right to the entire medical history of their offspring's partner. How entitled are these parents?
yeah could also just be that she wouldn't want to carry a baby even if her husband could get her pregnant through medical intervention there's probably a reason they aren't doing sperm donation or bone marrow stuff pregnancy can take a toll on the body
29:31 On this one, I wouldn't have come out (cause it's none of their business), but would have told them how inappropriate it was for them to butt in like that. There's no way that action was "coming from a good place." The only way it could come from a good place is if the couple had expressed a desire to see a fertility specialist.
Fun story, at my sister's wedding I accidentally introduced myself to extended family as her sister. They just assumed I misspoke. I didn't, I was just really nervous about so many people and forgot to not say I'm a girl. This was long before I actually came out as trans for real.
First story made my blood boil. I'm a grown-ass woman, I came out to my friends in our late 20s and at that point I had several queer friends to look up to - and my straight friends are all AGGRESSIVELY supportive 😂 I've never made feel uncomfortable because of my sexuality by any of them, they've been so supportive and let me figure things out even when it was pretty obvious. AND YET. The internalised homophobia is so damn real sometimes, especially the stereotype about "predatory queer women", and I feel bad for thinking a woman is attractive 🥲 The damage these "friends" might have caused is deep. I wholeheartedly hope OP will soon find more deserving, caring people and heal from this experience ❤
21:05 - ARG, do parents just have this filter in their brain that makes it so they don't understand or hear the word "no" or grasp what the word boundaries means? I've not met a parent that understands either of these things. What has to break in a person's brain to make them think this was an okay thing to do behind their kid's backs? Frankly, I hope it's entirely non-refundable. They deserve it, for not taking the "we're adopting instead" as an answer. Call It "the stupidity tax". OP and hubby are NTA.
I think it's a feeling of ownership. Conscious or unconscious, I think a lot of them feel like their kid is their property for life, and they're entitled to not only the child's life, but also their grandchildren
@@Romanticoutlaw yep. My parents act like I'm a disobedient puppet. I will do stuff as an adult, and they'll get mad and scold me "because you didn't get permission". Yeah, cause I didn't need it, I'm an adult. They "informed" me I wasn't allowed to come out at work...over a year into that job, I was out at tryouts. Then they got mad at me for "lying" because since I'm not actually trans (because they say so), it's lying to say that I am and threatened to call my boss to say I was mentally unstable. I told my boss "Heads up, my parents are threatening to call you because they don't agree with me working here", he replied "What?? Do they expect me to fire you?", "Yep", "You're not joking are you?", "Unfortunately not". Yeah, didn't lose my job, they never even called.
9:52 Literally making his brother come out to the family BEFORE the wedding would absolutely create the whispers from the bigots in the family. Gatherings like this are when everyone in the family is finally able to get together in person. Any recent family news will be the talk as opposed to just some family gaining their suspicions naturally through the night.
As someone who always knew she was attracted to women I always made excuses not to change with anyone else in the room. I didn't want anyone who found out my orientation to accuse me of trying to cop a look, but also other women in my particular home town take coming out as a sort of invitation to s'xually harass wlw. And what are you going to do? Report it? Nobody would take you seriously if you did. It's just easier to not change with anyone
Agreed, that is how it sounded to me. I have a friend who when she married another women her mother said that if the wife carried the kids then she would not view them as her grand child, same if they adopted. Well, they adopted, and she apparently dotes on that little one.
You know, I had the same views as your father (thanks to my own prehistoric religious upbringing), BUT then I had my first son and changed my stance the second he was born. If I am the one being screamed at, the one who changes disaster diapers every two hours, the one who can't use the bathroom in peace and doesn't sleep for years then I AM THE ONE WHO GETS TO CALL HERSELF YOUR MOMMA. Who cares whose genes you carry?! The people who invested years of their lifes into you, ate your mud cakes, held your hand while you were sick, and struggled through 2nd grade math with you, those are your parents. Who the heck cares about blood, it is such a stupid concept. God, so many sleepless nights.
Yep, my parents "forbid" me from getting a hysterectomy because, to quote my sperm donor, "It's worth the risk for real grandkids". "The risk" being my life (no seriously), and "real" meaning not adopted. He wanted me to risk my life, to do something I've never wanted to do and am absolutely horrified by, so that he could have grandkids that shared his genes. Yeah, he'll never have grandkids, even if I do adopt.
As of ≈11:57 tonight I will have been on HRT for a full calendar year. The single best year of my life. I'm actually seeing myself in the mirror consistently, and loving how I look. I enjoy being alive. I go places now. My relationships with my family are healthiet than ever. There isnt a single aspect of my life that hasn't been improved by allowing myself to be myself. So yeah. Happy Rebirthday to me. I think im gonna stick with this.
If I were marrying someone, and their family were going to be homophobic and awful to another relative: I ain't keeping the peace. They can just leave.
If wedding op had framed this differently or maybe approached if from a take charge position, i think id be less harsh. Like you want your wedding day to be about you, fair. So, assuming positive intent, that op is not actually homophobic, i think op should have taken some and made an announcement to the potential guests that their wedding is an inclusive event and that all types of couples would be welcome. They don't have to specify that it's brother. But this way, potential (religious/homophobic) guests will know ahead of time 1)what they can expect to encounter and 2) where the bridal party stands on the issue. If those types do still decide to attend, yeah there will likely still be whispers, but the expectation that any sort of scene would not be tolerated will already be set.
“Am I the asshole for catering to my violently bigoted family members over my bi brother but insisting I’m not homophobic and he’s being selfish by daring to debase THE LORD by being queer at my straight people day” yes
Ok on the short one with the bisexuality couple, I've had a similar experience feeling insecure. But there was one major difference, my partner reassured me and put effort into making sure I didn't feel that way. Ease the discomfort, don't attack it.
Yeah, i think his reaction was not great. He could have been more reassuring that it was just friendly banter. It seems like he took the opportunity to air his grievances with double standards for men and women.
Imagine having the gumption to assume everyone who's into your gender is attracted to you. Damn. Also imagine someone reacting to their friend coming out as not attracted to their gender and going, why aren't you attracted to me?
32:27 I would prefer my dad believe that over his current stance “bi people don’t exist. If you’re a guy who likes another man, even if you have been in a relationship with a woman in the past, you are now gay and you will never go back to loving women.” I haven’t been in any kind of relationship so even if one day I get the courage to come out to him as lesbian, he most likely will not believe me anyway so what’s the point 😫
In the case of the couple with the trans husband, if this had been my situation, I would have been absolutely furious with my family and in-laws. And depending on how much of my inner warrior it brought out, I would either have told them to get back in their lane or get out of our lives, or I would've gone to the appointment and let my husband tell the clinician (if he wanted to) that he's trans and ensure the entire thing was kept strictly confidential (I would also sue the shite out of them if anything got back to the paying individuals; if they want to part with their money, that's their choice, they don't get to know my or a partner's business) then just say, "Well, that's a no go. We're adopting. End of discussion." and from that point if fertility were brought up again, I would shoot it down in the most blunt way possible. The fucking sense of entitlement and utter disrespect of other peoples' autonomy really boils my piss.
For the first post: Do these friends introduce themselves as straight? I assume not, because including your sexuality like that would be weird. For the post about coming out at the wedding: This is all *very* dependent on how homophobic those family members are. If it's bad enough, a wedding ain't gonna stop them.
4:03 Honestly, it’s is so awful, this homophobia. We literally live in the 21st century, can’t believe people still behave like that… sigh. Everyone out there, no matter who you are or what you identify as, you’re valid ❤️❤️❤️
its funny because in the past, homophobia wasn't really a thing. Transphobia wasn't a thing either. Hell, there was a roman empress who was trans. And nobody gave a damn
Unfortunately, as someone who grew up in the 2000s and 2010s, can confirm homophobia has been in the 21st century- my dad literally campaigned against gay marriage when I was a kid 😢
@@TheSnowconeMachine See, this is what I don’t understand. If it doesn’t affect them, then by all logic, they shouldn’t care, and shouldn’t insult a group of people they know nothing about. I’m really sorry that your high school even allowed that, it’s damaging people’s lives and giving them the wrong impression about gay people. In all honesty, some people who have no idea about certain topics should stop trying to prove their homophobia correct and *maybe* just listen to the people and their experiences.
For the wedding one, they think an announcement that they're gay before the wedding is going to stop homophobic gossipers from talking about it at the wedding? I feel like they would be more likely to talk about it if everyone knew before hand. Even if the brother doesn't show up they'll be likely to talk about "why isn't the brother here?". The best way to stop gossipers from gossiping is to not invite them.
But they dont know who is going to be problematic about it beforehand. They only know that some of the guests are religious, and it would be unfair to univite them over a suspicion of bigotry. If the brother warns people of his intentions, they can uninvite anyone who specifically has a problem.
The first time I ever came out to people in middle school they outed me to the guidance counselor because “I didn’t prep them with a trigger warning or context” (basically). Now I just see it as homophobia.
For the third post, I've been trying to figure out why they did what they did. What do they want from OP and her trans husband? Do they want a biological child from OP? Do they have something against adoption and want reasons to discourage OP from adoption? What is it? Whatever it is, they overstepped, and don't deserve apologies
A friend of mine has a sister who is disabled and also has known issues I will not be disclosing that cause him issues with having kids. He is a cis gender man who has chosen to adopt when he gets older because of both of those factors, but it's not something he would have to disclose to people. It's ridiculous the entitlement those parents felt at the Son in law and their daughter.
I'm bi, and I'm dating a cis/het man, and I have people ask me if i'm sure i'm not "atraight" and it bugs me. LOL even my boyfrtiend is tired of telling poeple I'm STILL busexual despite having only ever dated men. Most straight women don't find women sexually attractive.
I would just not go to the appointment. Call the clinic and see if it can be cancelled maybe? And my parents would most definitely be getting an earful about boundaries and what is and isn't appropriate. Then I'd reconsider my relationship with my parents
"They can't make a big scene at the wedding" 🤣 Yeah I'm happy for you that your family is sane enough that you would think that. Sadly not all families are like that. Went to a friends wedding who was in a polycule, there was almost a fist fight because the family did not agree. Went to an other friends wedding who had a sister that was lesbian and brought her girlfriend and the religious grandma started screaming through the whole venue and had to be dragged out and other family was angry that she had been dragged out. I can fully understand OP not wanting that to happen at their wedding. Yeah I also wish we could just simply let everyone be and be open about our selves, but sadly we are not there yet and precautions for our and our loved ones safety need to be considered. I have now realised I'm trans and I will tell my family before we have any big family occasion if I plan to come as myself. That gives the time for it to simmer down and maybe uninvite the ones that have their panties in too much of a twist to be civil during the event. (or ... well... know that the amount of idiots in my family is higher than I thought and not go...) Though better idea for OP would probably to inform the family that there will be queer couples and if they don't like it they can stay away and if they come and misbehave they will be kicked out. Takes off the burden of the brother and is in general a good idea to weed out undesirable family.
About the fertility family, they've also already got a biological grandkid, so if they're the kind of monsters that don't believe adopted family is family then they can just stick with their bioessentialist grandkid and leave everyone else alone
The first time I went to a gay club with a friend who had just come out to me, I tried to simply enjoy the love in the environment. There were other women who would hit on her and she’d ask my opinion of the person (were they sincere or just into sex). I felt included and respected and never as if I were any kind of focus, including for her. We were good friends before she told me so why would I be different now? ❤
RE: the bathroom argument, I’m quite sure it’s much more dangerous for a trans woman to use the men’s room, than it is for cis women to meet a trans woman in the ladies. That whole debate is a bunch of BS.
Obviously yes. I tried at 3 months hrt, 24 yo, and cause i'm intersex i was VERY androgynous. only go one time, have to fight against a rapist. Next week i was in the women part, and a cishet Karen screamed i tried to rape her. She was ejected but i never came back. 16th september, it will ten years on hrt. Now i have problems because i'm lesbian X)
Even ill (Bones fragility +++) i'm quite strong, 90kg muscles for 1m70 (1m81 ten y ago...) so i often fight, for myself or because no one else will protect harassed women in streets or Subway or anyway. And that makes me laugh hard when FARTs say i'm a danger for women lmao
For the wedding one, the fact that they're not only inviting those bigots, but accommodating their bigotry at the expense of one of its victims says it all.
Unfortunately, there's people who want to maintain the image of perfect home so much that they won't see the fire until they bring the arsonist family member cigarettes to the jail... they probably think they HAVE to invite and accommodate them even if they can't stand them because they are family... not an excuse to do it, just an afterthought.
I agree, it's not like OP's brother was planning to make a speech saying "I have a boyfriend, who has a problem!" If OP's family is going to make such a big deal about it that it ruins the wedding, they shouldn't continue to be at the wedding anyway.
EXACTLY. Who's the real distraction? The gay couple or the people making a spectacle of the gay couple? The answer may not surprise you, because it's not the people who are just minding their own business!!
I feel conflicted about this one, because I have a grandmother who definitely has the level of entitlement to kick up a fuss at my wedding, and even if it wouldn't be my sister's fault, it would make it my problem to deal with. Sometimes it's not just about the image, we don't know here. I'm not saying it's right to ask anyone to come out under any circumstances, just no, let people come out in their own time, but it would also feel incredibly unfair to me if I was asked to bear the brunt of my grandma's very much obvious reaction to someone coming out. There's a compromise to be found here, but in the hypothetical scenario of the extended family being not only bigots, but also entitled aholes who would crash the wedding even if (and especially) if they weren't invited, it doesn't feel fair to OP either. I don't mean to say he's right, nope, but maybe the coming out just shouldn't be during the ceremony proper if it has that much chances to wreck it. The party after would be a better idea, at least the ceremony's over.
I agree with like 95% of what you said on the wedding one. I had a bridesmaid that asked me something similar and I just asked that she come out to her parents first, her parents were at the wedding and were involved in helping decorate and such since our families are long time friends, she didn’t have a problem with it, it all went fine,etc. The part you said that I don’t agree with though is that you won’t hear any of the whispers. My nephew is trans and came out to me after I asked him to be a bridesmaid(fully didn’t mean to have an almost all LGBT bridal party, it just happened. 😂) and there was a huge blowup between him and my mom (his grandma) about 3 weeks before the wedding. He had said for months that he was going to wear a dress stating “it’ll be like drag!” but at the fitting, he decided he didn’t want to and a whole thing about my mom being religious and being pissed that she had bought the dress etc. It was a mess, many tears were shed, and my mom even said she wasn’t going to come at one point. Everything ended up fine with the clothes because he was able to rent the same suit as the guys last minute. Fast forward to day of, everything was fine and I was out on the covered patio to get some air and my mom starts whispering to two of my aunts about what went down at the dress shop. I just walked away and fairly loudly said “Nope! No negative vibes on my day!” The damage was done though and I was not happy that she went there, especially right in front of me.
On the second aita I totally again with you and yet also think the groom is right too! He this way before the wedding could handle any drama before hand and disinvite any problem ppl if need to be. Thus sharing his wedding with those he wants too. And having a peaceful wedding where his brother and partner can just enjoy the wedding.
Whenever there's someone like "Oh, you should've told me you're a lesbian." I think "Well I bet they didn't explicitly say their sexuality before either!". And even if the topic of sexuality has come up before in the group, then no, you're still not obligated to come out to anyone.
3:50 No, this lesbian isn't the a-hole. The friends are for jumping to the tired, worn out "gay==sex-predator" trope. That's bigotry and projection on their part, and being bigoted is being an a-hole. Lots of us are able to be considerate and not look at our friends' bodies when they're changing, out of a sense of basic decency and respect.
lesbian is not the a-hole I think the issue with those friends is that they probably see sexuality as predatory in general they've likely experienced predatory men and immediately put lesbians in the same group do to attraction, which isn't right at all. Not to say that it doesn't exist, but it is wrong to immediately label anyone a predator for simply having an attraction
second story: honestly, how does he think people won't whisper during the wedding anyway? it'll simply be changed from "is he?..." to "can you believe he IS?"
With the fertility parents, what made them so certain that a fertility consultation was even a certainly worthwhile option? Sometimes people know that they can't become pregnant because of medical information that they are already well aware of (i.e. a condition or similar that is known about and ongoing like a history of hysterectomy, etc.).
Yep, like there are tons of reasons someone can know for sure they can't reproduce. Various types of cancer, surgeries, previous testing, maybe they're interex and don't produce the right gametes...
God, as a cis lady the parents paying for a "surprise fertility treatment" make me want to throw up a little. Pregnancy terrifies me to the point that I never, ever want to be pregnant myself, i would feel so incredibly disrespected if my parents did that
wedding brother seems incapable of considering that queer people may just want to exist in public spaces with their partners and not make a big deal about it
Ugh, the wedding one. My family would make a fuss regardless of what my sibling's +1 would be or anything else deemed "a secret" they'd spot and turn the event into the Salem Witch Trials. Hence why my partner and I eloped to avoid such drama. I'm like OP and would rather not invoke conflict but I'd rather tell the bigoted family that there will be LGBTQ+ people at my hypothetical wedding (including myself) and if they're not comfortable with it then they can kick rocks than to force someone to come out before they're ready.
The wedding story makes me think of the one wedding story I heard, the woman getting married had a trans brother and the mother who hadn't seen him in years was not supportive and was demanding the brother wear a dress cause she didn't know he had fully transitioned. The sister not caring that it might take attention away from her told him to do it. So a super buff guy came to a wedding in a dress.
For the two brother's wedding conflict, here's one idea for the OP: Meet with the bigot family members first. Explain to them that there may be some guests who are LGBTQ. Don't say who, don't say anything about specific orientations, just tell them that some people who are LGBTQ may be present, and if they are uncomfortable with that, they are welcome to stay home and if they do attend, he will expect them not to make any of his other guests uncomfortable.
With the last story, I think OP has the right to speak with her partner about the situation. Whether there's anything else going on isn't really included in the post.
22:59 NTA. This was blatant manipulation from the parents. They thought they could get a biological grandchild by putting all this money down. The overstepped and assumed they were adopting because of fertility issues. They played a manipulative game and paid the price.
Love your videos, but on these AITA posts, it is always nice to read what other people say to the stories and how the people on reddit see that person and maybe updates from OPs.
So as a gay man who isn't out to extended family yet, I completely disagree with the wedding one. I'm Armenian and my people are hateful so I would never just show up to a wedding without coming out and knowing for sure that the people there weren't hateful. If they're homophobic, they're absolutely going to cause a scene, especially if there is going to be alcohol involved. I completely agree with OP that the brother needs to come out first IF he's going to bring the boyfriend, especially even for his safety.
Thank you. I've actually seen this story a few times and that's always the response. Its not ok to wear white, its not ok to propose to someone and its not ok to come out at someone else's wedding. Its making their wedding all about you. If you've heard all the comments op is just fine with the family members not coming at all if they have a problem with his brother he just doesn't want to spend his wedding day fighting with them and trying to defend his brother, which he absolutely would do at any other time. I think that's fair
I appreciate your take, but I think we don't know enough about the family to know if the situation is closer to yours. It might also be that the brother and OP have a different idea of the kind of reaction the family will have. Clearly, the brother assumes it will not cause loud, obvious reactions, and the mom agrees. For example, I'm Italian but my "two halves" of the family are from significantly different backgrounds. I know I could show up with a same-sex partner if I were attending an event with my dad's side, and even if someone had something to say, I would probably hear that afterwards or through other relatives. However, I have no idea how my mum's side would react and I'd be the first one who wouldn't want to find out on my sibling's wedding day 😅 I feel like OP and the brother should communicate more and share their respective expectations, there's a chance they are just a on the same page imo.
@@alexhikaas you said, we do not know the family. We only know they are religious, but not how they behave. I was on a scene of a wedding because the cousin on one side of the family brought the ex gf or another cousin as their partner. They were no even dating but friends, and the scene was horrible. Just in the middle of the party. It can happen and it's uncomfortable for everyone, but specially the new-weds
@@alexhika All I know is they said they are homophobic. That already tells me that they've at the very least made hateful comments and not in private either so this notion that they won't cause a scene is flawed because they've already made their opinions known and openly too so they aren't embarrassed by them. Idk, seems like a stupid risk to me and OP is also correct that it's going to take the spotlight from his wedding which is also just rude because realistically he's going to be coming out multiple times throughout the night.
@@alexhikathat's a really good point, maybe the brother and mom expect them to keep it quiet during the event and explode afterwards but OP expect them to blow immediately. Every family is different and in this case we should take that in account before deciding. We can't, of course, for lack of information, but depending the family both outcomes are possible so... third option being "brother's special friend/roommate" which sucks, but wouldn't cause a commotion in the event.
The first story is really sad. It makes me grateful for a mostly gay friend group and everybody who is not gay (or unlabeled) is super supportive of everybody who is out. They are all super supportive and I wish everybody had a friend group as supportive and kind as them :)
When I was at (a theatre based) uni, everyone in halls decided to share our sexualities on the very first day. Some people said not sure or prefer not to say, but for a lot of people it was a very freeing moment to know none of us were alone.
The fatility senario is so disgusting. Being trans is just one of the 1000 of reasons they couldn't have kids biologically. What if the husband was cis but had to have an operation due to cancer or another health reason and couldn't produce sperm? What if he had a medical condition he didn't want to risk passing onto future generations? There are so many reasons that would make them say 'We can't have kids' to the inlaws. There is no senerio where he would be required to tell the inlaws why! To go behind their backs to book an appointment is just plain wrong! I would hate to be stuck with inlaws like these people!
Yep. I've simply never wanted biological kids ever. Even as a young child I knew I wanted to adopt (and that was before I knew about my health issues or even that trans people existed, let alone that I'm trans). That doesn't stop nosy strangers from trying to "figure out" why I'm infertile, just because they were eavesdropping on my conversation and heard me say something about adoption. I don't even know these people's names half the time (unfortunately the other half of the "but bio kids" conversations is mostly my father). Like what if (and this absolutely does not apply to me, but I do know someone it does apply to) I had to have an emergency hysterectomy to save my life? Wouldn't digging into that just be cruel? Oh, and my father has absolutely no idea why I barely speak to him.
My family are genuine sociopaths. I was texted “are you dating [name/same sex]” by my mother and when I responded yes they kept asking when I was getting a [insert opposite sex] and later they started creating excuses to kick me out and vilify me to the rest of the family, so I’ve since disconnected and I wish I had done it much, much earlier. I spent too long trying to appease them thinking they might accept me that it destroyed my MH.
I’m afab and love girls, so the way julie and camilla had their baby by julie being pregnant w camilla’s egg so sunny technically has dna from both of them makes me so happy 🥰
On the wedding bit, i wouldnt expect a sibling to announce a new gf under normal circumstances because thats whats expected, it wont really draw any attention but if they're new gf is a celebrity i would absolutely expect them to. Similarly i wouldnt want them announcing a pregnancy or an engagement either. I can kinda understand the sensitivity around coming out but any kind of life milestones shouldnt be announced at other people's life milestones. Im sure its not the brothers intention to make a big deal out of it but op clearly thinks one will be made out of it by the extended family and is just trying to get ahead of it.
In regards to the 'forced coming out' story, my mom has always told me and my siblings "dont bother coming out. Just bring a partner round and say 'this is my partner of x gender'."
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If your friends immediately think they need to act like you're a sexual predator when you come out despite you never giving them any reason to believe so, they're not your friends.
I would be more worried about them being predators themselves to be honest... "Oh my god, you are a creep that hid to see me naked" automatically after you tell them makes me think that they would creep on every man they could and that's where the idea came from... sure, could not be the case, but every guy that I heard using that argument on gays were exactly like this... so I am unfortunately too used to straights being HORRIBLE and projecting to not be biased against the ones who use THAT kind of argument...
It might be different in a group of friends where joking about having sex with each other or dating each other is normal, because then they can think you weren't joking at all but "testing the waters" with them, but thinking you are necessarily preying on them without any kind of previous indication of that being a possibility always gives me a bad vibe.
In my friend group as teens we had a gay guy and nobody ever worried about him or his jokes even when those jokes were pretty strong because we knew he wasn't a creep, when he got a boyfriend in the other hand, that guy made everyone nervous by being a creep and it wasn't about homophobia but about having a creep entering the group. And when our friend saw what a creep his boyfriend was they broke up immediately and nobody was nervous about him afterwards...
TRUE!!!
Right, imagine if person acted that way because they were straight lol.
They would be shocked
Being part of the lgbtq community doesn't mean you oggle your friends
@@ViktorErikFade I still believe it's a straights' problem... they do that so they obviously expect us to do it too...
My sister acted like that after I came out as bi to her.
My (female) friend told me that when her friend told her she was bi, she acted a bit similar as OP's friend in the first story (she was a teen and she didn't accuse her friend but just thought that maybe her friend has looked at her sexually the whole time), asking her "omg but does that mean you like me?". Her friend then said "No, you're not my type. Do YOU like EVERY guy you see since you're attracted to men?" and since then my friend understood. I've told many people the same thing even before that as well.he
This is exactly the reason I am not coming out right now
I’m still in high school, and there’s still a lot of queerphobia in my school, and I don’t feel safe coming out right now in this environment because I now I’ll be treated differently if I do
I came out to my best friend a few weeks ago, and fortunately she was quite understanding
@@a_weird_mess3 Hey don't worry. You come out when you're ready and feel safe!
This is how I made my husband understand same sex couples. When our nephew came out he said he wasn't sure he comfortable with our kids hanging out with him anymore, (nephew is quite a bit older than our boys bc my husband is 19yrs older than me). I asked him if he was attracted to my female cousins, Aunts, mother, grandmother and/or all female presenting people? He seemed offended when saying "NO!" Then slowly started nodding his head in understanding.
You'd be surprised how often I have retorted with essentially that, only to have them still be uncomfortable/awkward and I had to give up on the friendship. I think a decent percentage of straight women really assume every man is somewhat attracted to them and cannot interact with men normally because they have wholeheartedly bought into the idea that "men and women can't be friends" (and as for bi people, I guess we get no friends? lol...)
Had a toxic friend who flipped out when my best friend and i came out to the group as queer because she was convinced that we're gonna start dating (which idk why that would be a problem in the first place). We told her that assuming we'll date just cuz we both like women is the same as if we assumed that she and our guy friend are going to date cuz they're both straight. In her words "it's not the same thing" apparently.
Buying your adult child fertility tests AFTER THEY TOLD YOU THEY WANT TO ADOPT is such a creepy overstep. I hope they don't "refund" the parents!!
People offering unsolicited and unwanted "help" is one of my pet peeves, especially when that "help" is strongly biased by the "helper's" own agenda, values, and personal preferences.
They should have just said he’d had a vasectomy or blunt testicular trauma or something like that
@@bettyjoy6361 but why lie?
@@FrostyShadowYT True, lying might be hard and against what the person believes. They could have said that they know exactly what the problem is, that the guy doesn't produce any sperm, there is no hope for him to ever have children of his own, and that's all the info you're getting. It's shitty that they felt forced to tell the whole truth, instead of just some form of truth, and a very snarky "none of your business".
I think I would have told them - in a 'how dare you bring up a sensitive topic' way - "I have a condition where I was born without testicles. Are you happy now?"
The person struggling to decide if their brother can bring a man to the wedding should consider not inviting the bigoted extended family members who would cause the problem.
Yeah try to uninvite for example a spanish extended family workout causing a crapstorm (hint: you can't), plus many people have been traumatized into being doormats for their family (I know such people, yes, even queer ones, and it hurts them a LOT)..
"just don't invite family" is easy for some of us (me included) and nigh impossible for others.
@@theaureliasys6362 exactly, my grandma's got grand ideas about "wokism" and just, no. I couldn't uninvite her, she'd crash the wedding anyway, but it would also make it my problem to deal with her tantrum, and that's just not something you can ask anyone, even for something as important as a coming out. At least not the ceremony proper.
@@laurelyn The bigots also might be helping financially, especially with the wedding itself.
I'm really glad people are pointing this out, because yes coming out actively/ inactively, if, how, and when is an individual's choice, but there are consequences to it and you can't make people agree to it when it involves them. Like this wedding, or a non-closeted being expected to hide their relationship from certain people.
Honestly, the idea of these big weddings with a lot of extended family that the couple usually doesn't even like sound like a total nightmare to me. I have heard so many women who basically sacrificed their big day to "keep the calm". If I ever get married, I will probably do like my cousin, no family just the two of them, with the photographer as a witness.
@@marial870 Unfortunately, some people can't because of fudging flying monkeys or just getting a lot of shit from everyone, but yeah, being able to invite who I want would be a dream
Fertility parents never once considered that daughter might not want to carry another pregnancy. Like not only is there inherent danger in being pregnant, but she might have gone through some stuff that she didn't like and doesn't want to go through again.
As for 'allowing' someone into their family, my response would be that I get to allow people into my family too, and that includes disallowing people who try to control my relationships AND MY BODY.
Holy smokes!
As for 'they were coming from a good place', they absolutely were not. They were coming from a place of control. Nobody who is trying to control somebody else is 'coming from a good place'. They may not consider their intentions to be bad, but they are. Categorically. Objectively.
@@emisformakeryeah, I feel like OP is probably a good person who tries to see the best in everyone. So she is missing how insidiously manipulative it was of her parents to do that. What an awful invasion.
@@hawkeyescoffee6399 I used to be that person, which is why I'm real pissed off on OP's behalf.
Hell she might not have gone through anything, and could've had a completely blissful pregnancy (minus I'm sure labor because I'm sure that cannot be avoided) and still not want to be pregnant again just simply because she wants to go with another option. That should have been perfectly okay and reasonable enough for the parents.
Oh totally. People can choose adoption and don't owe Pregnancy to anyone. The patents asked if they went to a clinic and they said no, choosing adoption. It could have been the husband knew or could have suspected he was infertile from prior to getting together. Maybe something traumatic did happen and he lost the ability to make sperm And didn't want to go through that exhausting process with his wife now. The couple shouldn't have to say. "No we didn't go to a fertility clinic bc we know the sperm isn't there or won't work and that's why we are choosing adoption." To get people to accept their decision.
No. We are going to adopt. Period. The end.
I am a trans man, however, i spent nearly 37 years of my life presenting female. I have wanted to adopt since I was five years old. You'd be amazed how many people (not my family thankfully) have the audacity to insist that you should bear a child. They get very upset when you point out how it sounds when they insist that bearing a child is somehow preferable to giving a home to a child who needs it.
That's insane. I am glad you want to be a parent. I wish you the best of luck.
That's awesome! I've wanted to bear my own kids someday since approximately the same age, and I love that you specifically want to adopt! I always feel a little guilty for wanting to birth my own child rather than give a home to a child who already needs it. And if it turns out I'm infertile or something, I probably will adopt. But I think it's wonderful that adoption is your FIRST choice. That's got to be so reassuring to your future child!
Seriously. Why is a child any less deserving of your love just because it's not made from you? A dog doesn't deserve any less love because it's not made of *my* cum or eggs or whatever, and it's not hard to love it either so why would a human be any different? If reproduction is so important to you, then go, have fun making all the important babies. Oh you don't want to have ten children? Wow, how terrible it would be if somebody pressured you with no respect to your right to choose your life.
Omg yes
I'm glad your family is good about it. My father told me "Well I think it's worth the risk for real grandkids". And yes, for him real=biological 🤬. And the "risk" was my doctor saying she thought there was about a 50% chance I would survive to viability. My father wanted me to **risk my life** to do something I've never wanted to do, just so he could have grandkids that share his genes. Jokes on him, even if I manage to adopt he will not have grandkids, he will not be involved.
We had some of our outwardly queer friends come to our wedding. (My partner and are are straight-passing). I fairly plainly informed my homophobic relatives that there would be queer couples on the day, and if they weren't comfortable attending without saying anything unkind, to just not come.
That part of my family opted not to come, and also aren't really in my life anymore. Haven't officially cut ties, but we don't really talk, and eventually they'll find out I'm non binary and cut me off anyway.
Good riddance.
Good for you.
My brother didn't officially come out to my parents. They asked him why he didn't tell them. He answered: Did my sister (me) have to tell you she was straight..?
That is very good soup, I like that
While that's how it should be I couldn't deal with for example bringing a boyfriend over when visiting my parents when I didn't know their reaction yet
I came out as bi to my mother when I wanted to introduce her to my girlfriend and ahe acted all betrayed and shit, I told her exactly this but she still didn't get it lol. I mean we never had a relationship in which we told each other much personal stuff so it didn't come up until it needed to, I'm still confused by this reaction. I get that being hetero is the most common thing but why should we treat is as the default?
Yah it’s unfortunate - my teen nephew told us all in the fam he was gay so that was well known. But it was so natural he just told me about his crush for several weeks and then eventually mentioned oh yah he’s trans. I was like ohhhhh and then simply reminded him about contraceptives “give the talk” but otherwise gave him a pep talk to ask his crush on a date. I like to think we were a good aunt and uncle raising him for a couple years and supporting him after his mom died 🥰 now they’re engaged and their baby is due late this year since they moved out of state a year ago.
All that is to say is it’s sad that kids would have to “come out” anymore and they should be able to say “so and so is my crush…” or “I’m dating X” without any pretext of worrying about reactions. But I know not all households are so welcoming.
As a lesbian, I can tell you I do not stare at friends as they change. We have changed in front of each other periodically and I do not stare. It is a matter of respect not sexual attraction. That first story makes me sad. I hope she gets a proper support group
These 'friends' are projecting. If they were changing in a mixed sex change room, they would totally be creeping on all the people they find attractive, and this is so deep-seated in their attitudes that they can't imagine another person not acting like a creep in an equivalent situation.
@@mamasimmerplays4702 Bad as this probably is to say, I think I get where this is coming from. As a straight male, if I were to find myself in a mixed changing room, while I don't see myself staring I don't know if I'd exactly trust myself not to sneak a peek either.
It's probably different for same sex situations though, I know for me, I didn't grow up using mixed changing rooms so I wouldn't be quite as used to them in general.
As a gay amab person I js don't like changing in front of ppl or ppl changing in front of me (depending on the extent of undress) bc it makes me uncomfortable. It's not a sexual attraction thing. It's js not something I want to do.
Even when I was dating my ex girlfriend for multiple years, I never looked at her while changing lmao
I am female and I have bisexual/lesbian friends. I have never felt uncomfortable changing in front of them because honestly, they have the same body parts I do, just seeing a boob isn’t that shocking to them! If they were attracted to me specifically I may not change in front of them (just like I would not change in front of/sleep in the same bed of a male who was attracted to me because that’s not respecting their feelings if I don’t feel the same way). But just like not every straight man is attracted to me, not every sapphic woman is attracted to me! I don’t understand why that’s so hard for people to understand! I mean, is every allosexual straight woman attracted to every man? (As asexual I guess I can’t rule that out…)
As a cishetwoman I prefer to have friends who aren’t bigots. Hands down.
❤ yay thank you 😊
like im just imagining the trans/cis couple who is adopting, if the man was cis but had lost his testicles from a tumor or accident, imagine having to tell your inlaws, hey, i have no balls, wtf.
Or if he'd had mumps as an adult. Or had a vasectomy and wasn't a good candidate for reversal. There are tons of possible reasons...those inlaws were thinking more of themselves than of their daughter and son-in-law.
Or he could be apothisexual ace.
They could also just be infertile
22:32 Question for these parents: "Why do you think the functionality of your _son-in-law's reproduce system_ is any of your business? That's just _weird!_ They told you they're adopting. The issue of fertility was answered then and there. Angry additional questions from you are prying into private parts."
@@dustygania2425What're you on about now? Nothing is being erased here
@@dustygania2425 oh duster, how is the Jammi fanclub w the werewolf treating ya
@@PKMNResearcherSkyler Dusty is a known troll, just report and don't engage.
Sadly my parents think my reproductive system and chest are their business. Even though pregnancy would've been life threatening for me. My doc told me it was really good I didn't ever want to be pregnant, because there was about a 50% chance I would live to viability. My father's response "Well I think it's worth the risk for real grandkids". And yes, by "real" he means "biological". Also when he "figured out" I wanted top surgery (as if my hatred of my chest has ever been a secret, oh wait, it never was) he said "You're going to ruin my life".
Then I started working on scheduling a hysterectomy I was "informed" I was not allowed to get one and they would stop it if I went to the hospital. So of course I got one anyway, and when I got to the hospital I just informed security, check-in, everyone, that if anyone showed up looking for me to not even confirm I'm a patient.
So basically he has absolutely no idea why I barely ever talk to him. My mother just pretends I never came out and, very badly, tries to gaslight me into believing I never did and it was all a figment of my imagination.
a@@waffles3629 I take it that you're not cis, then.
I, Internet Uncle-Gay🏳🌈, support you! And say that your parents are _creepy._
And my response to the, "real grandchildren," idea would be to tell him, "Why're so fixated on propagating your genes? What are you, a monkey or something?"
I came out as trans on my 30th birthday. Outside of my family & wife, everyone left. Took their gifts too - and even asked for refunds for the PayPal money they sent. I didn’t send it back. Idc if I’m the AH. I’m still the same gd person, just transitioning. These stories kinda bug me severely based on the other food reactions.
jfc im so sorry that happened to you, but at least you can now get better friends who love you for who you are
I'm sorry those people wasted so many years of your life pretending to be your friends. I hope you've got better people around you now.
NTA. You can't just take gifts back after. Those "friends" can go fuck themselves
They brought presents to a birthday party, damn right you shouldn't give that money back. Mostly because they're being bigoted transphobic a-holes, but also, if you decide to end a relationship where the other person hasn't like actively been cruel to you, why would you ask that other person to return gifts you've given them? That's so rude and unnecessary. Maybe if you'd given them a family heirloom or something... But no, even then, the fault is with you giving away something that you actually wanted to keep. 🤷
Keeping the money was the right move. It's the bigot fee lol
My Geography teacher adopted a kid and nobody in his classes have asked why. I'm gonna remind you we're 7th graders AND he's said that this is the worst year of students he's had in terms or being rude, yet we're still more mature than those parents.
Yeah, a lot of rowdy "young people" have way better manners than the "sophisticated" adults.
Btw, I think you might want to delete the part in your post that refers to age. RUclips is quicker at banning accounts from teens than at banning those from creeps that prey on them.
@@AmarisFrede yeah, the amount of times older people have told me stuff that would be absolutely out of line from younger people, but of course, they're older so I have to just fucking listen or *I'm* the problem, is oustounding. Probably doesn't help that I have a big case of baby face, but _still_
Bro if that teacher had the last name Nicholls, I’m that adopted kid, or it’s a crazy coincidence that both that teacher and my dad are geography teachers that teach 7th grade and adopted a child lmao
With the trans husband/fertility one, omg those parents were so insensitive! There are NUMEROUS reasons people would want to adopt, instead of having biological children, trans or not! I don’t think OP ever even brought up fertility as an issue, so why would the parents jump immediately to that being the only possible reason?!
And the entitlement of “we wouldn’t have spent the money if we’d known”. You shouldn’t have spent the money anyway! Maybe ask more questions, first! If fertility were the only issue, I’m sure OP would have brought it up before!
Even if they were a cis couple, they could want to adopt because:
- One of them might have severe health issues or something in their family history that they don’t want to risk passing on to their children
- OP might not have wanted to go through the ordeal of pregnancy and giving birth (I personally find the idea of pregnancy terrifying, so that’s a big reason I would prefer to adopt)
- They might just genuinely prefer the idea of adoption. There are so many kids in the adoption and foster care system, and being able to give an adopted child a loving home is a beautiful thing.
- and many, MANY other reasons could be made!
Just…. GAH! That one really got under my skin. 😤
OP even went through a pregnancy before, so she could've very well realised how hard that is on your body and decided to not want to do that again! Possible ofc also a mixture of several of those factors. If I ever wanted children I'd definitely want to adopt for several of those reasons and I know other people who feel the same. It's absurd to me that the parents jumped to conclusions about fertility immedeatly instead of taking any other of these potential factors into consideration. They seem to consider adoption to be not even plan b, not even c but probably plan f or something, a less valid way to become parents of you can help doing it differently
All of this!
Even if they were a cis couple, no one has the rights to know someone else's medical history, paying for someone to see a fertility specialist is such a violation of privacy. Literally the only way this would have been ok would be if OP and hubs asked for help in paying a specialist or maybe if it's known they're saving money to do so and you want to help them out financially. Any other time it's not your business to meddle.
Urgh! This type of stuff really bothers me. I mean, even as a allocishet woman you need to ward of so many people who want to tell you that you'll want children, even if you tell them you don't. An older colleague once told me that I'm apparently wrong about my own feelings and that I'll change my mind once my "biological clock starts ticking". I actually want children even less now, but I really wish I'd have just shut down that shit earlier when it happened.
People really need to stop getting into other people's business like this. Don't ask people when/if they want/will have children. Maybe even don't ask about weddings. Don't comment on other people's bodies. Just wait for people to give you the infos they want to share.
I'm somewhat hopeful of this becoming more the norm, afterall many people have come to realise they need to wait for a person to come out, so maybe we can have a more widespread understanding of minding one's business in the future.
@@CarinaCoffee I had a medical professional tell me the same. As if the slow realization that the only reason I wanted to be a parent was to prove I'd be better than my parents would suddendly dissappear. Living in a culture where I'm at least allowed to never have children is honestly life-saving, both my own and the potential child's. I would have been an absolutely horrrible parent.
Also, it shows how they really feel about adopted children. The "gift" was never for OP and her husband, it was always about the parents/inlaws fulfilling their own wishes for bio grandkids. They are pretending they had good intentions so they get to be the clueless innocent victim when they aren't getting their way. The husband coming out was just more fuel for them to use. It sounds like the manipulation was working, I hope OP realized and put her foot down. No sympathy, if you give an inch, they'll take a mile. They don't deserve to meet their future grandkids.
@@Magic_Skeleton yes, it seems to fall into that thing a lot of people still seem to be hung up on, that you're only "normal" or "worthy" when you reproduce naturally. They can't seem to fathom how anyone would not want that.
And that it's like a right to have grandchildren that way because they went through the trouble of having you.
That first one is so sad. As a straight woman, if I was the first person a gay friend came out to I'd be so happy that she trusted me so much. What a twunt OP's "friend" was.
Twunt is my new favorite insult 😂
IKR? like I've had that happen before with a closeted trans friend, and it's such a beautiful experience! I was fucking glowing the entire day
Agreed
Ikr. If my friend came out to me, her being a creep wouldn't even cross my mind. But that's because I'm a normal rational person who doesn't think people are creepy unless they ACT CREEPY. They literally had no reason to think she had bad intentions. They just think gay people are creeps by default which is not okay.
I'm a cis guy and I don't want any bio kids. There are multiple health reasons as to why I don't want to do this. Fertility literally doesn't matter in this case. There are tons of reasons to adopt and all of them are perfectly valid.
This!! It’s nobody’s business how someone becomes a parent or if they become a parent. Not your kids, not your body, not your business.
Unless it's to use them for labor reasons (AKA using them as an unwilling maid or butler or anything like that) which obviously isn't valid
@@thenexus8384 interesting that your mind would immediately go there
@@s.a.4358 what?
As an adoptee who knows that my only "real" parents are the ones who raised me with love, I resent the parents' implication that adoption is less legit than a child who is a genetic match for their parents.
Also, none of parents' #$#! business.
Yeah, it just makes me sad, and mad, at how many people don't consider adoption valid. I'm not adopted, but I've known since childhood that I only wanted to become a parent through adoption. My parents "don't agree" with that. My father even told me "It's worth the risk for real grandkids". "The risk" being my life btw. Yeah, jokes on him, he won't have any grandkids regardless of how many I adopt.
As someone who is currently going through the adoption process, definitely this. I don’t care if my children are biological me, look like me, or anything.
We were loosely trying for bio children for a few years (always with the idea to adopt another kid too) and it’s not happening, but I have no sadness or regret about that. We did not look into the fertility issues.
For the guy worried about his relatives at the wedding. I think the OP should go to the homophobic relatives and say, “hey, there will be several lgbtq couples at our wedding. If you cannot be respectful to them and not make it a big deal, you are not welcome to come.” That way no one has to be outed AND you can make sure everyone will be respected at the wedding.
Absolutely - part of having a wedding is taking care of your guests, so the same way you'd tell the caterer that so-and-so had an allergy, it's the couple's responsibility to protect their queer guests from homophobic family.
It makes me so sad when people act like their friend’s a creep when they come out as queer to them like in the first post
It hurts much more especially knowing that op finally trusted their friend enough to come out to them, and they react like this :(
@@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz Since you're generalizing, will you also blame all straight people for the behavior of straight creeps?
@@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz Do you realize some of the creepy things straight men do?
@@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz Statistically, cishet men are responsible for the majority of those things. Every accusation is a confession.
I've had multiple friends come out to me by first saying "I love you as a friend but I'm not attracted to you" I thought it was really weird because like "duh like when I thought you were straight?" Now I see they were preparing for people like that
@@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz like the weird friends in the story or the friends of friends in the comment I replied to?
I am surprised the fertility office accepted payment ahead for a different person than the appointment was being made for.
It is sus.
I can just imagine the receptionist being like “keep the day open, there’s no way this couple’s coming in” lol
I know, right? All sorts of ethics problems there.
and they CHOSE to pay in advance.... those parents are fucking insane
yeah, even if I was interested in getting the service in general, I would NOT go to a place that accepts money from a stranger in my name without ever consulting me
I feel so sad for the first OP. She actually thought she might've been the AH, because her "friends" are horrible. The protective side of me just wants to hug her and tell her, in no uncertain terms, that she did nothing wrong.
"I don't like that you use the same locker room as me, I don't want you to LOOK at me."
"I have standards, Lisa."
even if the child was open to fertilty treatment, who in their right mind would just choose a doctor/clinic for them? What has happend to talking to people? If you want to support your child on their fertility journey, you can offer that... you can tell them you are happy to look at clinics with them, pay for something, etc. you don't go and make appointments... ffs.
AND how were they even able to make the appointment for them (assuming it was made when OP was an adult)
@@syd6654 Right? I'm not sure what all the laws are but I don't think I would want to trust a doctor who would let someone else "surprise" me with a medical appointment like that. Idk it feels like there's too many opportunities for abuse. In this specific case, even if OP and husband were both cis and could have bio kids, this appointment would have still been manipulative bc they're using the fact that they sunk so much money, that they weren't asked for, to guilt their kid into doing what they want. And idk I think that's something a medical professional should be considering. Unless the patient has explicitly said "this person has permission to make appointments for me" it shouldn't be allowed to just make an appointment for another adult like that.
@@syd6654making an appointment for someone else is not hard as long as you know their ID details. I make appointment for my mother-in-law regularly because she has care needs and it is easier for her (she lives with us and we take care of her, go to appointments with her, etc) I don’t hide that I am making an appointment for someone else, but it has never been an issue. And if I didn’t say the appointment is not for me, as long as I give them the required info they wouldn’t know.
I have also made dentist etc appointments for my partner like making an appointment for him at the same time as for me. Granted it’s usually in cases where he is already a patient there, but even if I did not say the appointment is for someone else, it would be easy to clock as I am a woman making an appointment for a man.
First story- god her friends are really flattering themselves here! Im bi but that doesnt mean that i find every single person attractive! Just because someone has a certain sexuality doesnt mean that they are attracted to every one of that gender and doesnt mean that they will always be creepy or staring its ridiculous!!
Apparently is common enough between straights being a creep that they automatically assume we are creeps... just as is common enough between straights to be cheaters that when they find a bisexual they automatically think we want to be with a man and a woman simultaneously cheating both of them... my uncle thinks I want to have sex with any woman he brings home and I say "hi" to because that's how he acts... I always said and will keep thinking until PROVEN wrong that they project their own weirdness on us.
It is strange. A lot of people have dealt with one-sided attraction from both sides, even sexual harassment, and yet straight people aren't usually disgusted or scared about the idea of like, having co-workers be of a different gender even though they could technically develope a crush on you.
Maybe it has something to do with of how we deal with fear. Like you might be scared of a bear or a spider coming towards you, even though it's far more likely to run away because humans are dangerous and vengeful. Maybe if you see queer people as a threat, you fear a personal attack even when we just want to be at peace and would rather stay far away from queerphobes. Whatever the case, hopefully that attitude continues to lose popularity.
Reminds me of that Tumblr post
"Men and women can't be friends? Damn, bi people just can't have friends"
@@justaperson4656 I remember a post (don't ask me where was it posted) where someone said "men and women can't be friends" and the answers where "bisexuals can have friends, there's only prey" and "bi-lociraptor screeches in the distance, the hunt has begun"... that was the funniest take on that I ever seen... 🤣
In regards to the guy asking his brother to come out to extended family because of their families, religious beliefs. how I’m going to get around this at my wedding is I am going to add into my invitations that people of all different backgrounds, sexual orientations and pronouns will be attending my wedding and that I expect everybody to be treated with respect.
For me on the wedding one, I have to somewhat agree with the poster. In some personal celebration like that they really should be the center. There is a parallel in my life with one of my sister-in-law's 70'th birthday, (she is significantly older that my spouse, my spouse being the baby in the family, there being more than 20 years age gap between them) and my having come out as trans. When the party was set everyone invited I had not come out to yet. I made a point to come out to them BEFORE the party as I didn't want to setup a situation where it would shift attention away from my sister-in-law at her own party. I'd honestly have to say both are assholes in that situation to some degree. The one with the wedding should not be forcing someone out..... and the person who isn't out shouldn't be outing themselves at someone elses wedding.
28:48 This is the "I'm entitled to have grandkids" attitude turned up to 100 & with intense transphobia. I've seen pressure like this from parents of cishet couples and it's the same inappropriate invasion of privacy. One couple told me that while they had been receiving this inappropriate pressure, they had been struggling with infertility and actively getting medical tests & intervention. They didn't share because it wasn't anyone else's business that they were trying to get pregnant.
The parents in this story were absolutely in the wrong and invading privacy in a massive way.
22:27 If they had been trying to get pregnant for a while and it wasn't happening, and they had expressed to the parents that this was distressing them but they couldn't afford fertility treatment, or wanted to save their money for something else, or thought they should try for longer first even though it was upsetting them that it wasn't happening, I can see this being a nice and thoughtful surprise, but if they've expressed that they want to adopt and are not interested in pursuing having biological kids, that choice must be respected. These parents are ignoring what their child has said she wants, and trying to pressure her into something she doesn't want by pushing it on her as a "gift" is not only inappropriate, it's manipulative.
even if it was the first case, its is very violating to book someone for any appointment without their consent or even in their knowledge. its a very weird idea of a "suprise", if the parents knew their daughter tried for a baby but was having problems and it was distressing the couple and they wanted to help, they should talk to them about a consolidation that they're willing to pay for themselves. it's just.... very inappropriate no matter what
It’s so awful when family decides that they know best and ignore what you’ve told them about personal decisions. So overstepping!
@@AstronomicalJelly I agree. What I am wondering however is, how is it even possible to book such an appointment for someone else, without their prior consent. Like, how does that work? What kind of Clinic is that? I mean, they even got to the point where they payed for it beforehand. What clinic does that? What about privacy laws? patient confidentiality?
@@maganatalia8432
Doctor appointments scheduling can be done with someone's name and date of birth most of the time depending on where you live.
@@maganatalia8432A lot of normal doctors are scheduling online these days, it wouldn't surprise me if fertility clinics did the same. The last few doctors I've been to, they only asked for ID when I actually got there.
In regards to the one about the parents needing to prove how they are not getting pregnant the so called regular way. If the man was cisgender and had a low sperm count why would they have to know about it and it seems like they would be humiliating him for being deficient in front of everyone?! WTF!!??
Yeah, no matter what your body is like, that’s extremely DISGUSTING.
Around 7 months into the pregnancy my sibling chose to tell us that it's a test tube baby and left it at that, no further details. Considering how the topic was obviously painful I can't imagine how horrible it'd have been for them to not only talk about it before they were ready, but to be pressured into giving specific details.
The first one, it's so weird. No one expects anybody to introduce themselves as, "Hi, my name's X, and I'm straight." No one! Why do they think everyone who is not straight needs to include that the first time they meet? They don't insist on anyone they *assume* to be straight on clarifying. I have never met anyone who asked, "Just so I know up front, are you straight or...?" Nobody does that! This girl's friends are SO WEIRD for insisting she should have told them that when they met!
Right on about the wedding. Jamie spitting facts.
Yep. I've even had people get mad at me for not telling them I'm asexual. Like what???
What medical center allowed someone other than the adult patient would allow another adult to book an appointment?
It's totally possible, but paperwork has to be signed first by the patient in question. My partner can make appointments for me at a couple doctors offices. Mostly for neurology, because scheduling an infusion for migraine is kinda difficult when you are in a full blown migraine.
I don't think they made an appointment, they just paid in advance
I wish parents didn't feel so invested in their children's sex lives and reproductive choices. That's just WEIRDT!! Yes, with the t at the end.
I was just telling my family member how obsessed my mother is with me having sex. I’m a 21 year old bisexual single virgin and she will always make comments “will you ever have sex?” “Do you even want a boyfriend?” Like gtfo of my business! My sex future life is for me (and my partner) not for you.
The husband could have had a non reversible vasectomy (it happens.) Would the parents be demanding money refund because they were not told then?
@@MaddoxEzman ugh, my father is the same way and it sucks. For context I'm non-binary and ace. He almost caused me to crash the car that I was driving in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic because he absolutely loves to have conversations in cars "because no matter how much you hate it you can't escape". Yikes, saying the quiet part out loud there. Anyway, I was 19 and he decided to start a conversation with "You know, sex isn't that bad". 🤦 Which REALLY doesn't sell it. Imagine if someone came up to you and said "Wanna try my bread? It's not that bad". Uh no, pass.
Needless to say that despite carpooling with him, I did not speak to him outside of explicitly necessary communication for a few weeks. He ended up forbidding me from getting a hysterectomy. Yeah, that worked exactly as well as you'd think, I had surgery and he got mad.
fr its nacho beeswax
My mom asked me if I was willing to pleasure women when I came out as bi...it was one of the weirdest phone call I've ever had...
9:20 EXACTLY. I was listening to this and growling “well even IF he did come out people would STILL WHISPER??!!” While aggressively cleaning my stove top 😂👹
I can just imagine your arm quickly and aggressively swinging back and forth across the stove top while you have your device set up on the counter and there's soap suds flying everywhere 😂
I’m kind of of the opposite opinion - I think he should get the coming-out over with before he’s in the same room with the potentially homophobic people who may or may not be drunk. But then I read way too many “wedding drama” stories where people ABSOLUTELY WILL make a scene. Whispers are one thing, screaming, fights, and insults are another.
@@ihavenolife7597 Omg this made me laugh so hard I slid off the couch😂😂
@@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx either way, it’s up to him when and if he comes out.
No one else gets to decide that. I hope the wedding went well for them
@HeatherSchrivener-el2mx yeah and the brothers nor even really FORCING him to come out either. He's just saying "hey please don't bring the boyfriend, for this reason." That's not forcing.
RUclipss redemption arc going from recommending me post-2018 PragerU shit now recommending a petition for justice against a murder of a lesbian in Brazil, you finally have relevant ads
Cis/Het gal here: To all my trans sisters, non binary & femme siblings, more than happy to have you in the same bathroom, I hope you have a safe and peaceful piss
thank you. it counts a lot
i like to say i would feel more comfortable with a trans man or trans woman or both then the person who said they were uncomfortable to have them in the bathroom like bro we’re all just trying to piss you’re the one making it weird
Thank you!!
People think they're entitled to other people's business when they're not, people want to know what your sexual orientation is, if you're in a wheelchair they demand to know your disability, your pronouns, etc. 😫
35:04
i think what he meant by "women do it all the time, regardless of sexuality" is that girls in general who are friends compliment each other in "flirty" ways all the time, so it's weird to have an issue with men doing the same thing. idk if that's what it is, but my friends do that with each other and i(ftm who's friends are mostly either other trans guys or sapphics) feel like i see it at me school a lot. my friend and i literally blow kisses across the room all the time but neither of us like the other romantically. it's a normal thing to do and weird that the op is uncomfortable only with guys doing it
Those fertility test parents sound like a nightmare. I can't fathom being that entitled to dictate someone's choices about family planning. I would be ashamed of myself if I lost my mind and in a moment of insanity overstepped that way. I would also feel badly if I made an in-law feel like they couldn't come out to me. Those parents are absolutely the AHs.
As a bisexual i hid in the single bathroom stall and got changed in there. I felt weird changing in front of so many girls. Of course I find out now Im trans.
I’m a cis girl and I used to get in trouble for changing in the bathroom because I wasn’t comfortable changing in front of anybody because I was bullied a lot (more from boys but both genders so I didn’t trust anybody).
Yep, I was never comfortable with it. I was constantly told I should be "because they're the same gender". Like okkkk? What does that have to go with anything? So many people would "explain" it to me by saying "But wouldn't you find it so much more uncomfortable to change in front of boys?". Nope, that would be just as uncomfortable.
“so since you’re more uncomfortable with a volcano than an ice bath, here’s the ice, try not to freeze!”
Is anyone comfortable changing in front of others? Im non binary and cant grasp the idea of being comfortable changing in front of others.
Im not even comfortable at the doctors office.
@@AnnabethOwl I was less comfortable changing in front of others when I was a teenager and less comfortable in myself and my body, but nowadays I've no problem with it. I just assume that, like me, everyone in the changing room is focusing on getting themselves changed and not looking at or judging others. And, those that are looking at and judging others are creeps so I don't care about them.
0:15 I'm so used to asshole being used metaphorically that I don't really think about it, but butthole feels way more graphic because if you say that I actually imagine a butthole.
Ikr I thought I was the only weird one who imagined a butthole during the intro 😂
There are so many biological reasons a cis couple may need to adopt. Inlaws have no right to the entire medical history of their offspring's partner. How entitled are these parents?
yeah
could also just be that she wouldn't want to carry a baby even if her husband could get her pregnant through medical intervention
there's probably a reason they aren't doing sperm donation or bone marrow stuff
pregnancy can take a toll on the body
29:31 On this one, I wouldn't have come out (cause it's none of their business), but would have told them how inappropriate it was for them to butt in like that. There's no way that action was "coming from a good place." The only way it could come from a good place is if the couple had expressed a desire to see a fertility specialist.
Fun story, at my sister's wedding I accidentally introduced myself to extended family as her sister. They just assumed I misspoke. I didn't, I was just really nervous about so many people and forgot to not say I'm a girl. This was long before I actually came out as trans for real.
First story made my blood boil. I'm a grown-ass woman, I came out to my friends in our late 20s and at that point I had several queer friends to look up to - and my straight friends are all AGGRESSIVELY supportive 😂 I've never made feel uncomfortable because of my sexuality by any of them, they've been so supportive and let me figure things out even when it was pretty obvious. AND YET. The internalised homophobia is so damn real sometimes, especially the stereotype about "predatory queer women", and I feel bad for thinking a woman is attractive 🥲 The damage these "friends" might have caused is deep. I wholeheartedly hope OP will soon find more deserving, caring people and heal from this experience ❤
21:05 - ARG, do parents just have this filter in their brain that makes it so they don't understand or hear the word "no" or grasp what the word boundaries means? I've not met a parent that understands either of these things. What has to break in a person's brain to make them think this was an okay thing to do behind their kid's backs? Frankly, I hope it's entirely non-refundable. They deserve it, for not taking the "we're adopting instead" as an answer. Call It "the stupidity tax". OP and hubby are NTA.
I think it's a feeling of ownership. Conscious or unconscious, I think a lot of them feel like their kid is their property for life, and they're entitled to not only the child's life, but also their grandchildren
@@Romanticoutlaw yeah.... that kind of tracks with the behavior. Probably also passed down from their parents sense of self-entitlement as well. 🙄
@@Romanticoutlaw yep. My parents act like I'm a disobedient puppet. I will do stuff as an adult, and they'll get mad and scold me "because you didn't get permission". Yeah, cause I didn't need it, I'm an adult. They "informed" me I wasn't allowed to come out at work...over a year into that job, I was out at tryouts. Then they got mad at me for "lying" because since I'm not actually trans (because they say so), it's lying to say that I am and threatened to call my boss to say I was mentally unstable. I told my boss "Heads up, my parents are threatening to call you because they don't agree with me working here", he replied "What?? Do they expect me to fire you?", "Yep", "You're not joking are you?", "Unfortunately not". Yeah, didn't lose my job, they never even called.
9:52 Literally making his brother come out to the family BEFORE the wedding would absolutely create the whispers from the bigots in the family. Gatherings like this are when everyone in the family is finally able to get together in person. Any recent family news will be the talk as opposed to just some family gaining their suspicions naturally through the night.
As someone who always knew she was attracted to women I always made excuses not to change with anyone else in the room. I didn't want anyone who found out my orientation to accuse me of trying to cop a look, but also other women in my particular home town take coming out as a sort of invitation to s'xually harass wlw. And what are you going to do? Report it? Nobody would take you seriously if you did. It's just easier to not change with anyone
I really hope you're living in a better place now. That sounds horrendous, particularly for someone who's still a kid.
That third one sounds like my father, he only views family as blood, so the parents mightn’t view adopted kids as their grandchildren, which is awful.
Agreed, that is how it sounded to me. I have a friend who when she married another women her mother said that if the wife carried the kids then she would not view them as her grand child, same if they adopted. Well, they adopted, and she apparently dotes on that little one.
You know, I had the same views as your father (thanks to my own prehistoric religious upbringing), BUT then I had my first son and changed my stance the second he was born. If I am the one being screamed at, the one who changes disaster diapers every two hours, the one who can't use the bathroom in peace and doesn't sleep for years then I AM THE ONE WHO GETS TO CALL HERSELF YOUR MOMMA. Who cares whose genes you carry?! The people who invested years of their lifes into you, ate your mud cakes, held your hand while you were sick, and struggled through 2nd grade math with you, those are your parents. Who the heck cares about blood, it is such a stupid concept. God, so many sleepless nights.
Yep, my parents "forbid" me from getting a hysterectomy because, to quote my sperm donor, "It's worth the risk for real grandkids". "The risk" being my life (no seriously), and "real" meaning not adopted. He wanted me to risk my life, to do something I've never wanted to do and am absolutely horrified by, so that he could have grandkids that shared his genes. Yeah, he'll never have grandkids, even if I do adopt.
hi jamie!! as a gay transmasc teenager i just want you to know how much you’ve gotten me through. thank you so much jamie!!!!
Yo same!
@@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz FACTUALLY INCORRECT but you do you ig
@@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz damn, I'm not real?? I always knew it was all a simulation
@@hello_i_am_jacob LMAO real
Whew. Parental over-reach. That is rough. When I hear things like this I am so grateful to have parents that respect my autonomy.
As of ≈11:57 tonight I will have been on HRT for a full calendar year. The single best year of my life. I'm actually seeing myself in the mirror consistently, and loving how I look. I enjoy being alive. I go places now. My relationships with my family are healthiet than ever. There isnt a single aspect of my life that hasn't been improved by allowing myself to be myself.
So yeah. Happy Rebirthday to me. I think im gonna stick with this.
Congratulations!
🎉🎂🎈❤️
Nice!
My one year HRT anniversary is coming up on Friday. Transitioning has been one of the best things I've ever experienced. 😁
Congrats.
6 years next month for me! Happy Rebirthday to you! I’ll be 37 this year & the best choice I ever made ♥️
If I were marrying someone, and their family were going to be homophobic and awful to another relative: I ain't keeping the peace. They can just leave.
If wedding op had framed this differently or maybe approached if from a take charge position, i think id be less harsh. Like you want your wedding day to be about you, fair. So, assuming positive intent, that op is not actually homophobic, i think op should have taken some and made an announcement to the potential guests that their wedding is an inclusive event and that all types of couples would be welcome. They don't have to specify that it's brother. But this way, potential (religious/homophobic) guests will know ahead of time 1)what they can expect to encounter and 2) where the bridal party stands on the issue.
If those types do still decide to attend, yeah there will likely still be whispers, but the expectation that any sort of scene would not be tolerated will already be set.
I think this is a good compromise.
“Am I the asshole for catering to my violently bigoted family members over my bi brother but insisting I’m not homophobic and he’s being selfish by daring to debase THE LORD by being queer at my straight people day” yes
Ok on the short one with the bisexuality couple, I've had a similar experience feeling insecure. But there was one major difference, my partner reassured me and put effort into making sure I didn't feel that way. Ease the discomfort, don't attack it.
Yeah, i think his reaction was not great. He could have been more reassuring that it was just friendly banter. It seems like he took the opportunity to air his grievances with double standards for men and women.
25:30 The concept of adoption predates the bible, I'd say it counts as an "old-fashioned way" to get a kid...
19:05 that's 6 cat puns you intended but I would make it 7 for "purrchase" 😂
8 for CATegory
@@dolson27 lmao yes!!
@@dolson27I was thinking CATegory. I was also thinking that with the lack of emphasis, this was one pun that escaped even Jamie's notice. 😸
Are you including pawesome at the end?
Imagine having the gumption to assume everyone who's into your gender is attracted to you. Damn. Also imagine someone reacting to their friend coming out as not attracted to their gender and going, why aren't you attracted to me?
32:27 I would prefer my dad believe that over his current stance “bi people don’t exist. If you’re a guy who likes another man, even if you have been in a relationship with a woman in the past, you are now gay and you will never go back to loving women.”
I haven’t been in any kind of relationship so even if one day I get the courage to come out to him as lesbian, he most likely will not believe me anyway so what’s the point 😫
In the case of the couple with the trans husband, if this had been my situation, I would have been absolutely furious with my family and in-laws. And depending on how much of my inner warrior it brought out, I would either have told them to get back in their lane or get out of our lives, or I would've gone to the appointment and let my husband tell the clinician (if he wanted to) that he's trans and ensure the entire thing was kept strictly confidential (I would also sue the shite out of them if anything got back to the paying individuals; if they want to part with their money, that's their choice, they don't get to know my or a partner's business) then just say, "Well, that's a no go. We're adopting. End of discussion." and from that point if fertility were brought up again, I would shoot it down in the most blunt way possible. The fucking sense of entitlement and utter disrespect of other peoples' autonomy really boils my piss.
For the first post: Do these friends introduce themselves as straight? I assume not, because including your sexuality like that would be weird.
For the post about coming out at the wedding: This is all *very* dependent on how homophobic those family members are. If it's bad enough, a wedding ain't gonna stop them.
Either way the responsibility falls onto the extended family.
4:03 Honestly, it’s is so awful, this homophobia. We literally live in the 21st century, can’t believe people still behave like that… sigh. Everyone out there, no matter who you are or what you identify as, you’re valid ❤️❤️❤️
its funny because in the past, homophobia wasn't really a thing. Transphobia wasn't a thing either. Hell, there was a roman empress who was trans. And nobody gave a damn
@@justyouraveragehumanbeing7411
Sadly people did give a damn, but it’s impossible to know why
Unfortunately, as someone who grew up in the 2000s and 2010s, can confirm homophobia has been in the 21st century- my dad literally campaigned against gay marriage when I was a kid 😢
Also "gay" was used as an insult frequently when I was in middleschool
@@TheSnowconeMachine See, this is what I don’t understand. If it doesn’t affect them, then by all logic, they shouldn’t care, and shouldn’t insult a group of people they know nothing about. I’m really sorry that your high school even allowed that, it’s damaging people’s lives and giving them the wrong impression about gay people. In all honesty, some people who have no idea about certain topics should stop trying to prove their homophobia correct and *maybe* just listen to the people and their experiences.
For the wedding one, they think an announcement that they're gay before the wedding is going to stop homophobic gossipers from talking about it at the wedding? I feel like they would be more likely to talk about it if everyone knew before hand. Even if the brother doesn't show up they'll be likely to talk about "why isn't the brother here?". The best way to stop gossipers from gossiping is to not invite them.
Exactly they'd be talking about it anyway, and honestly more because they may not have even noticed if he was just chillin with his boyfriend.
But they dont know who is going to be problematic about it beforehand. They only know that some of the guests are religious, and it would be unfair to univite them over a suspicion of bigotry. If the brother warns people of his intentions, they can uninvite anyone who specifically has a problem.
The first time I ever came out to people in middle school they outed me to the guidance counselor because “I didn’t prep them with a trigger warning or context” (basically). Now I just see it as homophobia.
For the third post, I've been trying to figure out why they did what they did. What do they want from OP and her trans husband?
Do they want a biological child from OP? Do they have something against adoption and want reasons to discourage OP from adoption? What is it?
Whatever it is, they overstepped, and don't deserve apologies
A friend of mine has a sister who is disabled and also has known issues I will not be disclosing that cause him issues with having kids. He is a cis gender man who has chosen to adopt when he gets older because of both of those factors, but it's not something he would have to disclose to people. It's ridiculous the entitlement those parents felt at the Son in law and their daughter.
I'm bi, and I'm dating a cis/het man, and I have people ask me if i'm sure i'm not "atraight" and it bugs me. LOL even my boyfrtiend is tired of telling poeple I'm STILL busexual despite having only ever dated men. Most straight women don't find women sexually attractive.
“Why didn’t you tell me if I’d known I would have treated you differently!” Is the most inane self report like you answered your own question there
Only come out when you feel safe to do so. We will welcome you to our community with open arms ! ❤
I would just not go to the appointment. Call the clinic and see if it can be cancelled maybe? And my parents would most definitely be getting an earful about boundaries and what is and isn't appropriate. Then I'd reconsider my relationship with my parents
"They can't make a big scene at the wedding" 🤣 Yeah I'm happy for you that your family is sane enough that you would think that. Sadly not all families are like that. Went to a friends wedding who was in a polycule, there was almost a fist fight because the family did not agree. Went to an other friends wedding who had a sister that was lesbian and brought her girlfriend and the religious grandma started screaming through the whole venue and had to be dragged out and other family was angry that she had been dragged out. I can fully understand OP not wanting that to happen at their wedding. Yeah I also wish we could just simply let everyone be and be open about our selves, but sadly we are not there yet and precautions for our and our loved ones safety need to be considered.
I have now realised I'm trans and I will tell my family before we have any big family occasion if I plan to come as myself. That gives the time for it to simmer down and maybe uninvite the ones that have their panties in too much of a twist to be civil during the event. (or ... well... know that the amount of idiots in my family is higher than I thought and not go...)
Though better idea for OP would probably to inform the family that there will be queer couples and if they don't like it they can stay away and if they come and misbehave they will be kicked out. Takes off the burden of the brother and is in general a good idea to weed out undesirable family.
About the fertility family, they've also already got a biological grandkid, so if they're the kind of monsters that don't believe adopted family is family then they can just stick with their bioessentialist grandkid and leave everyone else alone
The first time I went to a gay club with a friend who had just come out to me, I tried to simply enjoy the love in the environment. There were other women who would hit on her and she’d ask my opinion of the person (were they sincere or just into sex). I felt included and respected and never as if I were any kind of focus, including for her. We were good friends before she told me so why would I be different now? ❤
RE: the bathroom argument, I’m quite sure it’s much more dangerous for a trans woman to use the men’s room, than it is for cis women to meet a trans woman in the ladies. That whole debate is a bunch of BS.
Obviously yes. I tried at 3 months hrt, 24 yo, and cause i'm intersex i was VERY androgynous. only go one time, have to fight against a rapist. Next week i was in the women part, and a cishet Karen screamed i tried to rape her. She was ejected but i never came back. 16th september, it will ten years on hrt. Now i have problems because i'm lesbian X)
Even ill (Bones fragility +++) i'm quite strong, 90kg muscles for 1m70 (1m81 ten y ago...) so i often fight, for myself or because no one else will protect harassed women in streets or Subway or anyway. And that makes me laugh hard when FARTs say i'm a danger for women lmao
For the wedding one, the fact that they're not only inviting those bigots, but accommodating their bigotry at the expense of one of its victims says it all.
Unfortunately, there's people who want to maintain the image of perfect home so much that they won't see the fire until they bring the arsonist family member cigarettes to the jail... they probably think they HAVE to invite and accommodate them even if they can't stand them because they are family... not an excuse to do it, just an afterthought.
I agree, it's not like OP's brother was planning to make a speech saying "I have a boyfriend, who has a problem!" If OP's family is going to make such a big deal about it that it ruins the wedding, they shouldn't continue to be at the wedding anyway.
EXACTLY. Who's the real distraction? The gay couple or the people making a spectacle of the gay couple? The answer may not surprise you, because it's not the people who are just minding their own business!!
I feel conflicted about this one, because I have a grandmother who definitely has the level of entitlement to kick up a fuss at my wedding, and even if it wouldn't be my sister's fault, it would make it my problem to deal with. Sometimes it's not just about the image, we don't know here. I'm not saying it's right to ask anyone to come out under any circumstances, just no, let people come out in their own time, but it would also feel incredibly unfair to me if I was asked to bear the brunt of my grandma's very much obvious reaction to someone coming out. There's a compromise to be found here, but in the hypothetical scenario of the extended family being not only bigots, but also entitled aholes who would crash the wedding even if (and especially) if they weren't invited, it doesn't feel fair to OP either. I don't mean to say he's right, nope, but maybe the coming out just shouldn't be during the ceremony proper if it has that much chances to wreck it. The party after would be a better idea, at least the ceremony's over.
Flying monkeys abound
I agree with like 95% of what you said on the wedding one. I had a bridesmaid that asked me something similar and I just asked that she come out to her parents first, her parents were at the wedding and were involved in helping decorate and such since our families are long time friends, she didn’t have a problem with it, it all went fine,etc. The part you said that I don’t agree with though is that you won’t hear any of the whispers. My nephew is trans and came out to me after I asked him to be a bridesmaid(fully didn’t mean to have an almost all LGBT bridal party, it just happened. 😂) and there was a huge blowup between him and my mom (his grandma) about 3 weeks before the wedding. He had said for months that he was going to wear a dress stating “it’ll be like drag!” but at the fitting, he decided he didn’t want to and a whole thing about my mom being religious and being pissed that she had bought the dress etc. It was a mess, many tears were shed, and my mom even said she wasn’t going to come at one point. Everything ended up fine with the clothes because he was able to rent the same suit as the guys last minute. Fast forward to day of, everything was fine and I was out on the covered patio to get some air and my mom starts whispering to two of my aunts about what went down at the dress shop. I just walked away and fairly loudly said “Nope! No negative vibes on my day!” The damage was done though and I was not happy that she went there, especially right in front of me.
On the second aita I totally again with you and yet also think the groom is right too! He this way before the wedding could handle any drama before hand and disinvite any problem ppl if need to be. Thus sharing his wedding with those he wants too. And having a peaceful wedding where his brother and partner can just enjoy the wedding.
Phrasing it as "so I know who to uninvite" would have changed the whole conversation there. I don't think that was his intention, though.
Whenever there's someone like "Oh, you should've told me you're a lesbian." I think "Well I bet they didn't explicitly say their sexuality before either!". And even if the topic of sexuality has come up before in the group, then no, you're still not obligated to come out to anyone.
3:50 No, this lesbian isn't the a-hole. The friends are for jumping to the tired, worn out "gay==sex-predator" trope. That's bigotry and projection on their part, and being bigoted is being an a-hole. Lots of us are able to be considerate and not look at our friends' bodies when they're changing, out of a sense of basic decency and respect.
lesbian is not the a-hole
I think the issue with those friends is that they probably see sexuality as predatory in general
they've likely experienced predatory men and immediately put lesbians in the same group do to attraction, which isn't right at all. Not to say that it doesn't exist, but it is wrong to immediately label anyone a predator for simply having an attraction
second story: honestly, how does he think people won't whisper during the wedding anyway? it'll simply be changed from "is he?..." to "can you believe he IS?"
That's what I was thinking about the whole time, they'd still be talking about it whether he came out at the wedding or not.
With the fertility parents, what made them so certain that a fertility consultation was even a certainly worthwhile option? Sometimes people know that they can't become pregnant because of medical information that they are already well aware of (i.e. a condition or similar that is known about and ongoing like a history of hysterectomy, etc.).
Yep, like there are tons of reasons someone can know for sure they can't reproduce. Various types of cancer, surgeries, previous testing, maybe they're interex and don't produce the right gametes...
God, as a cis lady the parents paying for a "surprise fertility treatment" make me want to throw up a little.
Pregnancy terrifies me to the point that I never, ever want to be pregnant myself, i would feel so incredibly disrespected if my parents did that
wedding brother seems incapable of considering that queer people may just want to exist in public spaces with their partners and not make a big deal about it
Ugh, the wedding one. My family would make a fuss regardless of what my sibling's +1 would be or anything else deemed "a secret" they'd spot and turn the event into the Salem Witch Trials. Hence why my partner and I eloped to avoid such drama. I'm like OP and would rather not invoke conflict but I'd rather tell the bigoted family that there will be LGBTQ+ people at my hypothetical wedding (including myself) and if they're not comfortable with it then they can kick rocks than to force someone to come out before they're ready.
The wedding story makes me think of the one wedding story I heard, the woman getting married had a trans brother and the mother who hadn't seen him in years was not supportive and was demanding the brother wear a dress cause she didn't know he had fully transitioned. The sister not caring that it might take attention away from her told him to do it. So a super buff guy came to a wedding in a dress.
For the two brother's wedding conflict, here's one idea for the OP: Meet with the bigot family members first. Explain to them that there may be some guests who are LGBTQ. Don't say who, don't say anything about specific orientations, just tell them that some people who are LGBTQ may be present, and if they are uncomfortable with that, they are welcome to stay home and if they do attend, he will expect them not to make any of his other guests uncomfortable.
With the last story, I think OP has the right to speak with her partner about the situation. Whether there's anything else going on isn't really included in the post.
22:59 NTA. This was blatant manipulation from the parents. They thought they could get a biological grandchild by putting all this money down. The overstepped and assumed they were adopting because of fertility issues. They played a manipulative game and paid the price.
Love your videos, but on these AITA posts, it is always nice to read what other people say to the stories and how the people on reddit see that person and maybe updates from OPs.
So as a gay man who isn't out to extended family yet, I completely disagree with the wedding one. I'm Armenian and my people are hateful so I would never just show up to a wedding without coming out and knowing for sure that the people there weren't hateful. If they're homophobic, they're absolutely going to cause a scene, especially if there is going to be alcohol involved. I completely agree with OP that the brother needs to come out first IF he's going to bring the boyfriend, especially even for his safety.
Thank you. I've actually seen this story a few times and that's always the response. Its not ok to wear white, its not ok to propose to someone and its not ok to come out at someone else's wedding. Its making their wedding all about you. If you've heard all the comments op is just fine with the family members not coming at all if they have a problem with his brother he just doesn't want to spend his wedding day fighting with them and trying to defend his brother, which he absolutely would do at any other time. I think that's fair
I appreciate your take, but I think we don't know enough about the family to know if the situation is closer to yours. It might also be that the brother and OP have a different idea of the kind of reaction the family will have. Clearly, the brother assumes it will not cause loud, obvious reactions, and the mom agrees. For example, I'm Italian but my "two halves" of the family are from significantly different backgrounds. I know I could show up with a same-sex partner if I were attending an event with my dad's side, and even if someone had something to say, I would probably hear that afterwards or through other relatives. However, I have no idea how my mum's side would react and I'd be the first one who wouldn't want to find out on my sibling's wedding day 😅 I feel like OP and the brother should communicate more and share their respective expectations, there's a chance they are just a on the same page imo.
@@alexhikaas you said, we do not know the family. We only know they are religious, but not how they behave. I was on a scene of a wedding because the cousin on one side of the family brought the ex gf or another cousin as their partner. They were no even dating but friends, and the scene was horrible. Just in the middle of the party. It can happen and it's uncomfortable for everyone, but specially the new-weds
@@alexhika All I know is they said they are homophobic. That already tells me that they've at the very least made hateful comments and not in private either so this notion that they won't cause a scene is flawed because they've already made their opinions known and openly too so they aren't embarrassed by them. Idk, seems like a stupid risk to me and OP is also correct that it's going to take the spotlight from his wedding which is also just rude because realistically he's going to be coming out multiple times throughout the night.
@@alexhikathat's a really good point, maybe the brother and mom expect them to keep it quiet during the event and explode afterwards but OP expect them to blow immediately. Every family is different and in this case we should take that in account before deciding. We can't, of course, for lack of information, but depending the family both outcomes are possible so... third option being "brother's special friend/roommate" which sucks, but wouldn't cause a commotion in the event.
The first story is really sad. It makes me grateful for a mostly gay friend group and everybody who is not gay (or unlabeled) is super supportive of everybody who is out. They are all super supportive and I wish everybody had a friend group as supportive and kind as them :)
When I was at (a theatre based) uni, everyone in halls decided to share our sexualities on the very first day.
Some people said not sure or prefer not to say, but for a lot of people it was a very freeing moment to know none of us were alone.
The fatility senario is so disgusting. Being trans is just one of the 1000 of reasons they couldn't have kids biologically. What if the husband was cis but had to have an operation due to cancer or another health reason and couldn't produce sperm? What if he had a medical condition he didn't want to risk passing onto future generations? There are so many reasons that would make them say 'We can't have kids' to the inlaws. There is no senerio where he would be required to tell the inlaws why! To go behind their backs to book an appointment is just plain wrong! I would hate to be stuck with inlaws like these people!
Yep. I've simply never wanted biological kids ever. Even as a young child I knew I wanted to adopt (and that was before I knew about my health issues or even that trans people existed, let alone that I'm trans). That doesn't stop nosy strangers from trying to "figure out" why I'm infertile, just because they were eavesdropping on my conversation and heard me say something about adoption. I don't even know these people's names half the time (unfortunately the other half of the "but bio kids" conversations is mostly my father). Like what if (and this absolutely does not apply to me, but I do know someone it does apply to) I had to have an emergency hysterectomy to save my life? Wouldn't digging into that just be cruel?
Oh, and my father has absolutely no idea why I barely speak to him.
My family are genuine sociopaths.
I was texted “are you dating [name/same sex]” by my mother and when I responded yes they kept asking when I was getting a [insert opposite sex] and later they started creating excuses to kick me out and vilify me to the rest of the family, so I’ve since disconnected and I wish I had done it much, much earlier. I spent too long trying to appease them thinking they might accept me that it destroyed my MH.
I came out a few days ago, my parents are accepting :)
CozmixDekker-fu4kl, That's wonderful!
I’m afab and love girls, so the way julie and camilla had their baby by julie being pregnant w camilla’s egg so sunny technically has dna from both of them makes me so happy 🥰
On the wedding bit, i wouldnt expect a sibling to announce a new gf under normal circumstances because thats whats expected, it wont really draw any attention but if they're new gf is a celebrity i would absolutely expect them to. Similarly i wouldnt want them announcing a pregnancy or an engagement either.
I can kinda understand the sensitivity around coming out but any kind of life milestones shouldnt be announced at other people's life milestones. Im sure its not the brothers intention to make a big deal out of it but op clearly thinks one will be made out of it by the extended family and is just trying to get ahead of it.
Another reason someone may adopt is a genetic disorder. They're fertile, but don't want to risk passing the disorder on to biological kids.
In regards to the 'forced coming out' story, my mom has always told me and my siblings "dont bother coming out. Just bring a partner round and say 'this is my partner of x gender'."