Panerai PAM 560 painted dial: Thoughts after 30 days
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2020
- I recently bought my first Panerai -- a PAM 560. This model has undergone an interesting evolution due to the presence of a sandwich dial the first two years of production followed by the switch to a painted dial. The move was controversial and not particularly well-received, since the sandwich dial is far more coveted in the Paneristi community. However, having owned this watch for over a month now, my appreciation for the watch and the dial in their own right continues to grow. I wanted to make this video to provide a little more information and a close up look at this particular dial construction method.
The video is on the long side, so here are links to the main transition points:
0:00 - Introduction to the watch and painted vs. sandwich dial
3:02 - PAM 560 transition from sandwich to painted dial
5:24 - My pre-purchase views on sandwich vs. painted dials
6:44 - In-depth explanation of painted dial appearance + close-up shots
8:46 - Updated thoughts on sandwich vs. painted
11:03 - Observations and comments about online opinions regarding dials and features
14:13 - Closing thoughts
You are one BAMF. Every word was purposeful; not one amiss. You spoke directly to the future Panerai owner and no one else. Thank you for the incredible content. 👏👏👏
One the best elaboration of thoughts on a product i've ever heard.. great sharing. Nowadays, some youtubers don't even know what a proper review is. And i'm going to get my first Pam with painted dial soon.. appreciate your sharing of thoughts
Thank you. Really appreciate the kind comment, and I'm glad the video was interesting to you.
The PAM 00111 has almost everything. Sandwich dial, small seconds, exhibition case back. The Unitas movement was even COSC certified.
A really good review thank you. Very well presented and clear, great camera work and really salient points raised during the discussion. I had dismissed the painted dial but now its back on my list of acceptable features.
Had this. Noticed that liking it took some effort. Went online to look for emotional support but to no avail. Lol. So I decided to be honest to myself, sold it and got a 372 that has a sandwich dial, engraved logo and domed crystal. Loving the 372 takes no effort whatsoever. Been a year and the thing awes me in EVERY lighting condition. Love how in some angles, the hour marker kinda disappears while the engraved logo just pops bright along with the rose gold hands that glow so warmly. And the domed crystal just gives it such cool character.
For a Panerai I think the sandwich or painted is kind of splitting hairs for most normal people. Watch community will care, but I enjoy the Panerai luminor in its wrist presence and how it makes me feel.
I agree. But for those who are drawn to review sites and review videos (and I include myself here) it can be difficult not to be swayed in some way by popular opinion, particularly when it seems as lopsided as the painted vs. sandwich debate.
However, without a doubt the real fun is the wrist presence and the feeling of wearing it, as you mentioned. In that regard, the case itself is the real star, and that to me is absolutely what makes this watch what it is.
good review with great camera angle, thank you
Great review and congrats!!! That's a proper watch. Very masculine macho vibe. Note: To those unfamiliar to Panerai. Panerai did paint some dials on their historic WWII - 1950 references. There are also 3 different dials.... Sandwich, painted (lume flush to a slight cutout as seen in this presentation), and the sausage dial ( a thick layer of luminescent paint on a flat dial). These are found in 1997-1999 references. Panerai will never give the enthusiast everything in one reference. There's always something different, missing, or extra in Panerai references.
Great info, Milo. Thanks for adding a little more of the history. Couldn't agree more with your assessment that Panerai will never give you everything you want in one reference. Although, at this point, I'm not sure I could design a Panerai with everything I want either. Lots of small details throughout their catalogue, each with their own charm.
Excellent video. Very useful info
Gosh what a terrific video! Very elaborated narrative.
Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully you found some of the information to be interesting and helpful.
What a great review! Very good, thank you. And you are exactly right. No one is better than the other. It’s a personal preference. In fact, my preference is for the sandwich dial and I have a 112. But, if I was going to recommend a first Panerai to someone, I would suggest a Zero, which has the Sausage dial, of course.
Enjoy your watch. It’s a real beauty.
My 1st good watch was a sub 14060, 15 years ago. I bought a 560 sandwich 2016 last week and put it away. 50th B-day coming in 2 months. Want to drool over it without looking at it until then. Great video! Looking forward to its unboxing every single day!!!
Glad you enjoyed the video and happy early birthday! You've got a great watch waiting for you. Do you still have the 14060?
Eric S, love the 00560. Ordered a 2D strap for it. Will never get rid of my Rolex. My son will hopefully give it to his son when I'm gone but not forgotten. Cheers!
Nice to see you drop back in and glad to hear you're enjoying the 560. I'm curious how you found 2D straps. I spent hours and hours perusing forums and visiting strap sites and never heard anyone mention 2D, but I visited their site just now and really like the way they look. And I probably didn't need to ask about the Rolex, but also great to hear there's a plan to keep it in the family for many, many years to come. There will be quite a story behind that one.
Panerai originated as an Italian military watch company. In keeping with their roots, I felt like the watch deserves an Italian strap. Google got me to them. I believe it's a husband and wife. Their 3 week lead time has been 7 but hopefully it's well worth the wait.
(My son is 1/4 Italian). An heirloom has to start somewhere right. I always try to save and buy a quality product. It hurts once but I'd rather not be an owner, rather a caretaker for the next caretaker.
@@miazoi7891 I can't fault the logic of an Italian strap for a watch with Italian roots. I'm resuming my search for straps. Hope I can just go through with it this time instead of procrastinating.
I also appreciate the value of heirlooms. I've got a couple of my dad's watches and enjoy them both for the personal connection and the fact that they do stand somewhat apart from prevailing contemporary designs.
great video, thinking of getting one, still debating 372 vs 560 :)
Chanced on this video and really enjoyed the narration! I’ve had sausage/painted/stencil numerals models. Pam 2240 titanium and Radiomir black seal open back display case and now a 2005 Luminor Marina with this type of dial numeral option. Have to comment that whilst sandwich is iconic the painted, recessed cut out lume filled is intriguing. Have to say sausage numerals were a killer when it came to night time lume power. Congratulations on the watch.
Thanks for dropping in Jeremy, and glad you enjoyed the video. You've had a nice selection of Panerais covering a lot of ground with different case materials, case shapes, and dial layouts. One of the things I haven't decided for myself yet is whether I would stay within the Bettarini mold for a second Panerai and just tweak the minor details, or instead branch out to one of the other collections for a completely different feel.
@@erics288 Eric. Personally I’d be keeping a Bettarini, this motivated by his contribution to case design , Radiomir for the actual war time watch design( wire lugs a must) and finally I’d be looking at a Submersible and in this instance a 1958 case. Sent my L. Marina to Panerai in Milan for a service and that was interesting in as that they want to replace dial and hands. Typical Rolex approach.
@@jeremypitotti6654 The Bettarini design to me feels more unassuming and almost utilitarian when compared to the 1950s case, while still being beautiful and highly wearable. The 1950s cases at times look a bit serious to me, and I say this as someone who owes it to the PAM 312 for initially grabbing my attention and turning me on to the world of Panerai. For whatever reason, if I look at an old 6152 or a modern 372, they have a different character than the modern 1950s cases. Maybe it's the combination of brushed steel with the more neat and reserved numerals that seem to be found on watches like the PAM 312.
When you mentioned Submersibles, were you saying there are different case styles within the Submersible family? And did you end up replacing the dial and hands on the watch sent in for service?
@@erics288 Eric. From what I gather the Submersible mounts a 50’s style case. I have to profess a lack of expertise in that line of products. Most of the references out there seem to point to the 50s style case. Tim Mosso has reviewed a ton of Panerais and is a fantastic port to visit to familiarise oneself. As for the replacement parts for my LM I went along with the parts change, I do not intend to flip it therefore I’m really curious of the outcome.
@@jeremypitotti6654 I understand now and I agree the submersible looks to be the 1950s case with the tapering toward the wrist, flared out corners when seen from above, REG TM on the crown guard, etc.
Will be interesting to see what they come up with for the dial replacement and whether it'll be immediately noticeable. That part of the watch seems to be fairly inert, but as a guy who definitely can't repair a watch, I'm guessing there's a reason for everything.
I'll be looking for an older 560 with the sandwich dial
Well presented points, great camera work, and fantastic PAM! I love the “Zero” for the fact that it is painted, but I love the 8 days 560 for the filled dial and especially the movement-very durable & that power reserve! Could you do a video of it on the wrist, with a lume shot, and general discussion about wearing experience?
I know it is pretty randomly asking but does anyone know a good website to watch newly released series online?
@Camilo Ramon flixportal :)
@Jett Mekhi thanks, I went there and it seems like a nice service :) Appreciate it!
@Camilo Ramon No problem xD
Cool vid, definitely food for thought. I really need to check one of these "painted dials" out. Enjoy it in good health.
Thanks for checking the video out. This Panerai hobby has had a way of getting me to spend a lot of time thinking about things I never expected to care about.
Numbers are much "fatter" on the 560 and 510's as well....510 is an awesome watch in my opinion, love the small second. Great looking 560 btw!
Good call. The numerals are definitely fatter on the 510/560 than the 111/112. In the early days of owning the watch, there were plenty of times I kind of wished they were a little more restrained. There's really no escaping them with the painted dial since the view is unobstructed at all times. However, they're ultimately just part of the fun, and these days I appreciate the appeal of the larger numerals and the slightly updated font.
@@erics288 Picked up a Panerai 422 (47mm) since my comment as I was chasing the "sandwich" dial. Spectacular watch, cushion case, engraved Panerai Luminor on the dial, bubble/domed crystal very distinctive, sandwich dial is very nice. In the end, my advice to any considering, don't let "sandwich vs non-sandwich" be a deal breaker. I put the 510 on after 2 weeks of wearing the 422, and frankly, the lack of a sandwich dial was neither here nor there - think your take on the issue was bang-on.
Also believe 560/510 is the "filled" dial rather than the more obviously painted on "sausage" dial....as you pointed out at 8:00.
@@Andrew-nn4ml The 422 is an incredible watch. They pulled out all the stops with that one. Very nice pick up.
Great watch! I wish you would have put it on at some point and you really should have done a lume shot. Even if for just a second.
True, both of those would have added to what I was intending to be a fairly comprehensive video of what this watch looks like. Didn't even consider those two shots at the time. At least that gives me a reason to make a second video. As for a lume shot, the darker the room the better? Or is there a reason to not take the video in pitch black conditions?
What a great explanation. I am between a Pre-owned PAM 183 vs this particular model-new (+1,500K). Any recommendation?
No strong opinions on pre-owned vs. new, since in my case I felt like I'd be hanging on to the watch for a long time and just wanted to buy new. If I had been expecting to flip the watch or had looked more carefully at the condition of pre-owned watches on the market, I may have arrived at a different conclusion. For price in general, I guess my only thought on that matter is, once you've committed to spending a few grand on a watch, an extra $1-2,000 to get the watch you truly want should probably be included in the margin. On the other hand, if there really is a hard cap on price, then that's fine too, and I would do my best not to tempt myself by looking at other watches, as difficult as that is.
As for the decision between a 183 and 560, that's not easy. The 183 looks great. Considering you're looking at a Radiomir vs. a Luminor, there will likely be some tradeoff involved either way, so I think it's a matter of deciding what defines each watch to you and which addresses the needs you want to fulfill right now. For example the 183 case/lugs/crown probably gives you something a bit more classic and formal, but would still work with a t-shirt. The 560 might look more rugged. On the other hand, if you're indifferent on the case, then maybe it's more about the small-seconds hand and sandwich dial. To me, there is a pronounced difference between the font and aesthetic of the numerals on the 183 vs. the 560 (in part because of the sandwich dial on the 183). I do really like the 183 in that respect, but both are unique in their own way.
For me, it's the combination of the 560's case and general aesthetic of the dial that most define the watch. While some days I still catch myself wondering whether it'd be better to have a small-seconds hand or sandwich dial, those are relatively minor details. So, while I would happily take a 183, that would feel like a different watch to me and was not on my radar at the time. I was pretty set on this general look with the Bettarini case, so whether it was a 510 vs. a 560, or a painted vs. sandwich 560, any of those would have fit more closely with what I wanted at the time.
You may end up going through a similar general thought process but arrive at a completely different watch. I'm curious to hear what you end up with.
I think it’s really difficult with these hundreds of limited editions and cost cutting back and forth. Currently, in 2023, only the base models for around £4000 have painted dials (reduced water resistance, closed case back, flat sapphire) and the 8 day version at £5900 for instance has a sandwich dial (but no exhibition case back). That new hierarchy makes sense.
The PAM00564 titanium 8 days was first made with a painted dial in 2010 then in 2014 they made an edition with a sandwich dial to then continue making it without one until 2020 it appears. - To be precise, it’s not painted as such whereby the numerals would sit on top, but recesses are filled with lume, so there is a bit more effort than on a conventional dial.
On the sandwich dial the base dial has recesses that are filled with lume and then the stencilled dial is placed on top.
Does the 44m submwrsible wear larger than the 44 luminor? Or is 42m sub the way to go ?
I have a PAM773 with a painted dial as well, there’s a bit of depth in my opinion as it looks like the indices are filled.
I prefer the look of a sandwich dial, but it’s not a deal breaker for me. I’m not willing to pay the premium it takes to go up to a PAM with a sandwich dial.
I am so confused some are with this kinda of filled dial + lumed or sandwiched confusing!
Actually the real Logo, the one the started the 44m case design, is painted. That is quite an important point that makes the painted dial as good as the sandwich on the Bettarini case. more difficult to accept for me is the English writing...
I don't know if its your camera but in this vid the numerals and hands look almost white, which I prefer over the greenish look I see in some PAMs. Could it be the painted ones are more white?
In most lighting conditions the numerals pretty much just look white or cream colored. To the extent there's any greenish tint, it's barely perceptible and may just be my imagination.
One scenario where you will see a greenish tint is if you're out in the sun or in another very well-lit room and then pass into the shade or less well-lit area. The luminescent effect can be strong enough to slightly appear even in a reasonably light area. In general, however, the numerals don't look like they do on the Panerai site.
It's possible the shadows of the sandwich dial create more conditions that facilitate that second effect regarding the luminescence, but I doubt there's any difference in the lume itself.
When you were researching, in which situations were you most likely to see the greenish tint?
@@erics288 I tend to search for wrist shots to get a good natural picture of the watch. But it could be as you said, just the lume kicking in. Although, if you do a search for "Pam048" on google images, it will show all sorts of tones.
I know they have ones with ecru/beige colored numerals, found mostly with the 1950s cases. But when it comes to white, there should only be one right?
@@treehugger3615 I see what you mean about the appearance of different tones with the images of the PAM 048. Regarding pictures where the numerals look like a pure white, I don't think that will be accurate. I wouldn't expect it to look like someone painted the numerals on with white-out unless the lume really is different between the 048 and the 560. I've seen this effect on my 560 in pictures taken in certain lighting conditions.
I saw a couple of photos in my search where the numerals actually look yellowish, venturing into ecru territory, but in those cases the wearer's hand also looks kind of saturated, so I wouldn't be surprised if the photo coloring is off.
The pictures with a clear greenish tint despite being well-lit tend to have that familiar glow like when the luminescence is visible on my watch. So, to me, the range of tones in the online pictures seem to be the same range I can get with my 560 (with the exception of the ones that actually look yellow). My guess is the lume is basically the same on the 048 and 560.
The color of the numerals will be a soft, off-white in many cases. When I was walking around just now, I would think I saw a greenish tint only for it to vanish a few steps later as the lighting changed. Can't tell if it was the luminescence or if there really is a residual greenness that's faintly perceptible at times.
Usually I would say it looks like an off-white with hints of beige, especially in sunlight.
@@erics288 Yeah, off-white would be the best description I think, for most scenarios. Sometimes it might turn more yellow, other times more green. The only way to find out is to get one in my hands!
@@treehugger3615 Hope you get the chance sooner rather than later. Enjoy the search!
Could you tell me how tall is this watch? I looked at it everywhere but can not find any information. Kind ragrds
I don't have a way to measure this accurately on my own, but I see it listed as 13.5mm in some places online. The watch looks just a shade thicker than an Oris Aquis I have which is listed at 12.8mm.
@@erics288 that is great. Thank you your help!
I think it's 14.5 mm tall
In reality, there's no "lumed disc" in under the sandwich dial. The numbers are just painted - just like on yours - and then the stenciled dial is put on top of that. There's even a YT-video fron Panerai that shows how they make it. There's no difference in the quality and power of the lume.
Do you have a link for that video?
@@ivo2635 ruclips.net/video/NNY5fxsoA8o/видео.html
@@ChefPelle Thanks for the correction and for providing that video. It's an interesting revelation for me that the construction of the disc containing the lume appears to be the same for both the painted and sandwich dial watches, with the difference being that in the case of sandwich dials, the lumed disc is otherwise plain whereas in the "painted" counterparts that same disc is the dial itself.
At least, that's how it appears to me. Not sure if they use different materials depending on the role the disc plays. Do you know how far back you'd have to go, and to which models, to see a completely lumed disc? If I'm not mistaken, that was the construction method at one point in time.
Which one would you choose pam 112 or pam 560 and why?
At this point, the 560 is "my watch," so I'd stick with this one. The 560's subtle updates to the case and numerals arguably create a sleeker, more modern and more refined watch. I'm also used to winding it once per week. The 112 with the sandwich dial has more restrained numerals with a simpler and more symmetrical dial. The 112 may be ever so slightly more representative of a rugged "tool watch."
I have this watch Q series but with sandwich dial. they changed it for years after. Honestly I don’t think there is any difference as far as buying either or. Both good watches! Biggest difference is the viewing angles. Sandwich dial loses a lot of viewing angles where sausage is more visible
I think you're right, and you've said in a couple sentences what took me almost 15 minutes to say in this video.
I have the 560 Q. Sandwich dial wins for me.
the only thing its that sandwich dial feels more luxurius
what does base model mean? so many say base model
Base model refers to the most basic dials that only have an hour and minutes hand with no additional complications. This includes models like the 000, 55, 112, 176, 560, 561, 562, 773, 914 and I believe also larger models such as the 372 and 673 would be included in this definition. Some models have a logo on the dial (e.g. the 000) and are referred to as Base Logo.
The conversation oftentimes is expanded to include the Marina variants that are identical with the exception of the addition of a small-seconds hand, such as the 005, 61, 111, 177, 510, 563, 564, 776, 915 and, for the larger size, the 422. These models generally all have the words "Luminor Marina" on the watch.
For that latter category, the newly released 915 no longer has the word "Marina" on the dial. I guess time will tell if this dial configuration continues to be called "Marina" or something else. I'm also curious if anyone would disagree about the 561 and 563 being "base models" since they have additional numerals on the dial.
i got 2 Sandwiched Dial watches I dont find it really that Cool well I dont mind it aha
damned sausage .... cutting corners and screwing the customer
Considering the sausage dials go way back in Panerai's history, I don't necessarily associate the painted dials with cost-cutting. Could also be part of the marketing/pricing strategy or even a purely design-motivated decision (less likely).
However, the sneaky way they transitioned from sandwich to sausage on this model is reminiscent of the more recent and blatant (and even more underhanded) cost-cutting decisions they made in the past couple years. Those are without a doubt disappointing and a poor reflection of the company's decision-making.
Ultimately this watch may also have been a victim of cost-cutting, but at least the end result is in line with their historical product catalog.