How to Price Artwork - Draftsmen S3E18
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- Having difficulties figuring out how much to charge for your art? Do you feel like you’re undervaluing yourself and your work? There’s a lot that goes into pricing and selling fine art. We’ll show you how to break down the process into stages, and share a variety of ways we’ve found to negotiate and determine prices for your art. You’ll then get to see an example as we negotiate over the cost of a few Marshall Vandruff originals.
Timecodes:
00:00 Sponsors
1:05 Intro: Dad Humor
4:22 Today's Topic: Pricing
9:49 Getting a Representative or Agent
13:13 The 3 Stages of Pricing Your Artwork/How to Price Your Art
19:49 How to Move Between Stages
26:32 Story 1: Working for Exposure
30:29 Navigating Client Relations
33:38 Mutually Beneficial Relationships
36:00 Story 2: Saying No/Being Needless (How to Be Needless)
41:29 Money & Terms
45:47 Story 3: A Good Working Relationship
49:00 Low Ballers/Combative Clients
52:56 Factoring in All Aspects of a Job
54:32 Buying Marshall's Sketches
01:05:09 Post Negotiation Analysis/Rights Usage
01:12:20 Story 4: To License or Not to License
01:17:39 Outro & Shipping Fees
Show Links (some contain affiliate links):
Chris Voss - www.masterclass.com/classes/c...
Drew Struzan - static.proko.com/media/images...
Network - amzn.to/3grxoOr
William Stout - static.proko.com/media/images...
Drew Struzan's Workshop - static.proko.com/media/images...
Beeple - static.proko.com/media/images...
Chuck Grodin - The heartbreak kid 1972 - www.imdb.com/title/tt0068687/
Dustin Hoffman - The Graduate - amzn.to/3ANOq0U
Graphic Artist’s Guild Pricing and Ethical Guidelines - amzn.to/3y2RVPj
Nick Meglin - amzn.to/3gaSPTH
Marshall's work in Mad Magazine - static.proko.com/media/images...
Marshall’s Allergan Ad: Contact Lens Woman - static.proko.com/media/images...
Marshall’s Imagine FX Magazine Cover - static.proko.com/media/images...
Marshall’s Steamroller - static.proko.com/media/images...
Marshall’s Horse Drawings - static.proko.com/media/images...
Michael Du's Conflict Management - amzn.to/3skOguS
A Raisin in the Sun (1961) - amzn.to/3CV1aEM
Obama Hope Portrait, Shepard Fairey - static.proko.com/media/images...
Inside Llewyn Davis - amzn.to/3meFr4M
A Photographer’s Guide to Marketing & Self Promotion by Maria Piscopo - amzn.to/3iPKqXf
“Draftsmen” is available in audio. Subscribe on these platforms to keep up to date:
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#sellingart #pricingart #pricepoints
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ABOUT DRAFTSMEN:
Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff are art instructors. If you love the arts, particularly the craft of drawing and painting and image-making… and you want to level up your skills or even make a living with your skills, we are here to answer your questions. We’re here to offer you advice, refer you to our resources, share your love of the craft and maybe inspire you! Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff - www.marshallart.com. Subscribe to the podcast at bit.ly/DraftsmenPod
CREDITS:
Hosts - Stan Prokopenko (www.stanprokopenko.com), Marshall Vandruff (www.marshallart.com/)
Production Assistance - Alex Otis ( / alexotisillustration , Charlie Nicholson ( / shloogorgh )
Editing - Melanie Nachtmann, Charlie Nicholson
Intro Animation - Cody Shank (codyshank.com/)
Intro Jingle - Tommy Rush ( / tommyrush )
Music Used with Permission Intro - The Freak Fandango Orchestra
What do you find most challenging about pricing your art?
I became too shy and not confident at first, but I learned to appreciate my time, skill and effort, and now well off making commission
nobody wants to pay for my art
The most challenging thing isn't the pricing for me ... it's the marketing effort to get it in front of people. That's the hard part.
@@billpliske omggg frrr
@@billpliske wait that sounds sarcastic but it isnt
Guys you should call in an art copyright expert and have a whole podcast episode on it.
I can listen to Marshall's stories all day while drawing lols
Correction: At 1:13:10 Marshall meant to reference Inside Llewyn Davis not Hail, Caesar!
That makes a lot more sense! Thanks!
That thumbnail has me in stitches right now lmao 😂🤣🤣
me too, lol!
No master painting already had me like, this one gon' be different 😂
The negotiation part was more intense than Dr.Strange negotiating with Dormammu
Marshall looks like Doctor Strange only a little bit older
Now thats a good joke
Im just gonna say something... not enough Marshall stories on this one... I need MOAR STORIES!!! Wish i had an uncle like him damn... so much knowledge and fun!!
I LOVE DRAFTSMEN! Keep on the sublime work dudes!!! Ariel from Argentina.
This was one of the most entertaining and educational episodes so far :)
Out of the almost 100 episodes i’ve heard from this podcast… this was the most entertaining…
Thank you guys… keep it up!!
Marshall went full alpha male in this podcast, 10/10 episode.
"sassy apple eating" 😂
This was peak Draftsman ❤️
I listened to this podcast initially and after seeing the sketches I can see why Stan wanted to buy them. They're stunning horse drawings.
I felt so bad for Marshall being put on the spot, lol.
It took me a number of years to figure out a system that works for me.
I work in a couple of media, and sell originals for the most part. Not much of a resale market for my work at this time, if ever. Mostly portraits and western themed stuff. I found that my customers didn't care about cost, hourly rate and all that jazz. They understand the size of the piece of work, and for them size matters.
I ran my cost/hourly rate/profit numbers on a number of pieces. I converted that to a "secret" price per square inch for each media. Multiplied it to the various substrate sizes, and rounded them off to the next $10.
Those are my base prices, and it gives the customer a simple chart to see my pricing. My price list available, and as part of my portfolio book.
Commission works, logos, and corporate art take a lot of meeting and revision time, and those works cost quite a bit than the base price. Then it is a place to start negotiations.
Every year I reevaluate my square inch prices, and adjust as necessary
Dude I really enjoy this one, specially the sketch negotiation part it really cracks me up!!!
Been binge watching every draftsmen episode lately and also this is day one of asking proko for one of his piled sketchbooks 😂😂😂🙏🙏🙏
If you guys really want great advice for pricing, look up The Futur. It's all about the business of design and the design of business.
I hope Proko and Chris Do have each other on their respective podcasts. Would be great to listen to.
Ohh, that would be an interesting.
Just a correction: The movie where the licencing scene happens is Inside lewyn davis and not Hail cesar.
Indeed Aljaž. Caught it too late. Thanks.
I figure the worst that can happen is that if anyone watches Hail, Caesar! and is disappointed, they can watch Inside Llewyn Davis and be disappointed again. I liked them both a lot, but apparently not everyone did.
Great episode! Helped a lot, thanks! It was awesome when Stan said $500, I knew I was learning something 'cause I thought $500 too!!! Now I know I'm going the right way with my pricing :)
Aaaa looking forward to get to that part! xD
I want to hear all of Marshall’s stories. Let’s get a new podcast going of Marshall’s stories.
Marshall is an experienced negotiator and had some excellent techniques. As a purchasing manager much of what he was doing and saying are fundamental to the negotiating process
Proko vibin in the thumbnail for this video is everything!
Heck yeah! Just in time for my morning coffee. Excited for this one.
"sassy apple eating" is Marshall's girl boss moment haha
Golden channel and golden contents as always, thank you Marshall and Proko for all the experience and knowledge you guys are sharing❤
57:00 - "yOu'Re So StRoNg MaRsHaLl" I LOST IT
"That's the one you said had a big butt!" I don't know why this tickled me so much lmao
"I like big butts. But not on a horse."
Stan Prokopenko
Thanks guys. This discussion answered some of my questions about an artist’s market and about keeping prices reasonable to build a healthy market, and of not lowering prices in order to preserve the collectors’ market. Great stuff. This kind of explains why it may help to be prolific, so that a market could be established in the first place.
As an artist about 3 years in to doing it, I am loathe to sell early works at anything but a large price. But this is not realistic. However, I believe that showing early work at a well publicized show could be sort of a substitute for early renumeration as alluded to in your further discussion and reference to MAD magazine work done at low renumeration. Further, perhaps artists should retain ownership of some percentage of each year’s work with the objective of capitalizing on their market when it goes right through the roof as believe mine will.
I see what I need to do is to lower my prices and to be much more prolific. My artist name is Ricardo Sullivante.
God, I hope I get Marshal's disposition one day. "I'm fine with this" during the negotiation, is how I want to treat this kind of stuff. XD
NOOOO slap that base is stuck in my head now! Great podcast as always :D
I love Marshalls stories.
hilarious episode.
Lol, now I definitely want to know about the breakfast the horses had.
I was wondering, if after you set a price with the customer what steps you should do there-after. Do you need to write in fine print what was agreed upon and get a signature, or is it enough to have screenshots of the agreement? Along with if you should have the terms attached to where you receive the payment. If anyone had tips that would be a great help!
This is good. I haven’t started selling originals on my site but there’s a couple of other factors that fluctuate the price for me. Commission & size of the piece. I do the materials plus the hourly rate. Figure out what I want to make. Then if it’s going through a gallery or third party, I have to mark it up based on whatever their commission is. I make what I want to make and commission should never eat into that. Also no matter how long it took you, size trumps hourly in some cases for a gallery sale. A small piece that took forever vs a large piece that took significantly less time- the buyer is going to get confused if they see a small piece at $3000 and then see a much larger piece for $2500.
Top notch thumbnails as always
Best thumb yet
Marshall may have been to subtle with his apple move. He actually gave Stan the price for the drawing by saying „I got this delicious apple which is worth a 1000$ to me if I don‘t have no other apples to eat“
If he had said it less cheeky he‘d gotten nearly double the amount he wanted.
Much love to you guys from a distant place called the internet
1:40 you nailed it XD
Its funny to rewatch this ep. knowing that stan negotiated with marvel
Most of the suggestions I have found online regarding pricing have to do with the square inches of the work. So, if you are painting a canvas that is 12x16, and you charge $1 a square inch for example, the total price would be $192. If you work larger, you reduce the price per square inch a bit (maybe 90 cents)--if you work quite small, then have a minimum price per piece ($75 or what have you). Of course, this is just a baseline and has nothing to do with negotiating advertising contracts or royalties.
I use linear inches which i think are more consistent for smaller works than square inches. I also always have a minimum price. Then I charge a bit less for watercolors, gouache and drawings compared to oils and acrylics. Some people charge less based on the support too but I don't do it.
Idk why but immediately the thumbnail made me think of Happy Gilmore "The price is wrong bitch" LOL
At 1:16:18 is best advice
ngl funniest episode by far
Very entertaining 🤣
Two artists negotiate on a price for art on the topic of art price and it immediately derails
“He does not know that the joke is him”
If you start at an area with not a big interest in art (or country as i'll move in to the US eventually... and you cant tell me its bad there, in comparison to Chile where commonly people dont think artist is a job in the first place the US where there are large communities, pay jobs around art and appreciation for it that is at least existent, CANT be worse) does it sound okay to price based on the pricing of your work materials calculated (somehow) relatively to the size of the piece?
edit: i wrote this before watching btw-
"You woudn't do that!"
Marshall : :)
😂🤣 I love the negotiation.
By its beauty
Marshall, are you sure you got the right Coen Brothers movie. I think it was Inside Llewyn Davis, not Hail, Ceasar.
You're right, Mario. Realized it too late. You know your movies!
@@MarshallVandruff Please forgive the film geek comment. I really loved this episode. You and Stan are an amazing resource of knowledge and wisdom for anyone who is (or wants to be) an artist.
I think an episode on Stage 0/1/2 would be more helpful to a lot of viewers. This was great, but that early stage is certainly what I would be most interested in, and probably the listener who called in on the previous episode. Thanks again for the insight though, it's interesting to see the different factors.
Seems like the thumbnails are getting more and more realistic haha
Understood. Take apples to negotiations
this was hilarious
I give out a feather from an exotic bird from a bird sanctuary I work at with the painting a sell it’s a cool little gift I think
I loved everything, but it was funny how they... well... got me scared right there... for a moment. I expected one of them to start swinging.
56:43 LMAO Proko paying 5 dollars hahahahha
Marshall, what is your interest in orchids?
Lol great thumbnail
So much about this implied contracts but they were never really addressed.
10:15 WHAT!!!!
what does the artist do to be safe if the client buys without rights but uses it like they did buy it with rights?
Sue. Breach of contract.
I once sold a "realistic" portrait with color pencils that didn't look so bad but I wasn't good back then and It took me 3 days
I sold It for 2 dollars to my friend and that was considered more than what i expected
I'm 15 and this was a year ago
That apple has got to be a Cosmic Crisp.
why tf does the cover look like something id actually see on tv
So Marshall's hourly rate for original work is about $6,000. Not bad. (And should be $50,000 according to Stan, apparently.)
Marshal would get a kick out of Stuart diamonds book getting more if he like Chris Voss and Negotiation over all
ok we need to diferentiate between collectors and common people who buy your product. cause common people don´t want the value of your piece to rise otherwise they would not be able to support you anymore.
Perfect ad. Artists are very sensitive. IMHO
Ahh the 5 freeway
How do you price digital art? You only talked about traditional art.
Think about it like this someone isn't just paying you for a five minute sketch. They are paying you for the years and years and hard work it took you to do that five minute sketch.
This video brings back some cringe experiences I had in the past. Ideally it is best when you enjoy what you are doing and who you are working for.
100 dolars (study/beginner) in argentina is like 10 x times what people want to pay for art...
please tell us the horror story, so we will learn from that
learn to avoid it and adapt
Skillshare?
Probably
Once again get Chris from the youtube channel "The Futur" on to talk about pricing.
If you wanna listen to Chris, go listen to The Futur. Don’t bring that sociopath anywhere near this channel.
@@JDAHAWAII lmao wow, did he do something to you?
@@JDAHAWAII that'll be $10,000 minimum
@@fantomlimb5008 He makes more money scamming students through influencer marketing/false information than as a graphic designer.
sh1t fact: a Big Multinational Entertainment Company still pay only for exposure. Nowdays.
Dad humour is making bad/obvious puns continuously on purpose.
They want you to keep raising your prices or die. Worth more dead then alive. Tattoo artist price the same material and time. If you're a top tier tattoo artist you can make up to 1500 to 3000 a tattoo see Kat von D and Nikko Hurtado. Speaking of is tattooing a true art form from what I see yes?
Wait 8 miles, it takes 1 hour to get there by car? That is horrible! Southern California sounds like a level of Limbo.
PRICE IS A MYTH !
Your attention should be on :
value perceived by the costumer...
So find the way to create and increase the value in the mind of the customer
His perception,reality, understanding of the value of your product is what determines how much is he willing to pay.