Monogamy vs Polyamory OPPOSING VIEWS debate | Ellen & Andrew Fisher with Amelia & Matt
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2023
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In this fiery conversation with my husband and friends Amelia and Matt, we discuss and debate the meaning and value of sex, marriage, and monogamous vs. polyamorous relationships.
Amelia and Matt are a couple that practices consensual non monogamy and value freedom, self expression and evolution as the foundation of their relationship. They share polar opposite life experiences than me and my husband Andrew who have only ever been with each other intimately and waited until we were married to have sex. We’ve been together for over 20 years, started dating when we were 15 and 16 years old and our marriage vows are based in a life long commitment of growth and unconditional love, through the easy times and the hard times.
We get into our differing perspectives on love and if having multiple sexual partners at the same time or throughout our lives is best for society, raising children, and ourselves as individuals.
We discuss topics such as:
- problems within monogamy vs polyamory for relationships, children, and society
- The purpose and meaning of sex - is it sacred, solely for pleasure, etc?
- If our biology tells us anything about our optimal design for relationships
- Boundaries within non monogamy and polyamory.
- Should we give into all our impulses?
- What is the most supportive type of family environment for raising children?
- Is there a “one size fits all” for sex and relationship?
Where to find Amelia and Matt
Instagram / saltsandandsmoothies
Website www.saltsandandsmoothies.com
RUclips www.youtube.com/@SaltSandandS...
video clips from Amelia and Matt's wedding shot by: / careynataliady
WHERE TO FIND ME
Get The Empowered Pregnancy & Birth course: go.theempoweredbirth.com/ellen
Get my ebooks: www.ellenfisher.com/ebooks
My instagram: / ellenfisher
LISTEN to these episodes on Apple Podcast or Spotify: link.chtbl.com/ellenfisherpod
Family RUclips channel: / ellenfisher
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Andrew is such a good man! How he basically said "My highest priorities are not fleeting sexual experiences, its raising good children and dedicating love to my wife, to create a healthier wider community." Andrew, do a course or teach men in some way, we need more men like you!
Yes!! I agree, create a course or write a book! Would love to hear more form him.
My father is the same. Though he had one encounter before marriage with someone. But he says it seems stressful for him to have more than one partner apart from the obvious Christian values he respect and his relationship to jesus...
AMEN!
Yes team monogomy for sure...it is very sacred...I love what Ellen said about the protectiveness of a man taking his place, the same for thr woman.
I vote yes for Andrew’s ‘ how to be a family man’ Podcast ❤
Right off the bat poly guy says 'kids ruined my life in my former relationship' poly girl 'we want to raise kids together' sounds like the communication might not be as good as they protest 😂
They want to raise kids together while screwing other ppl so they don't "lose themselves". . .. 😂😮
Protest 🤣🤣👏👏good one...and true, everything you wrote
I thought the same thing when she mentioned kids.
What a mess…
Sooo true
As someone who grew up with parents who were non monogamous for nearly 10 years, it was deeply traumatic. This non monogamous couple might think that raising children in non monogamy provides them with “more adult role models”, but this is flawed logic. The presence of my parents’ third partner felt like an intruder in our home. It was painful and confusing to see my parents love split and I felt ashamed as a child trying to explain my living situation to anyone outside of my family. Children are not intellectually capable of understanding “tolerance” of multiple partners, and in practice, non monogamy destroys the family. After 10 years of non monogamy, my parents resorted back to their monogamous relationship, never addressing the trauma that they inflicted upon their children and their own marriage. Though well-intentioned, the rhetoric from this couple is extremely damaging.
❤thank you for sharing your experience, and am very sorry for your pain.
I do agree it is probably best to not be poly while you have kids until they leave the house.
So sorry you dealt with that gabby :(
its a problem to be non monogamous in monogamous society. if you were surrounded by non monogamous families..it would feel normal. The trauma of your childhood is the SHAME you had in your parents. The failure of your parent was not making you strong enough to ACCEPT it..not be SHAMEFUL.
The worst part is that you are still shameful of them..full of hate. You will never heal it until you accept them and that you simply lived in society that is full of hate to anything different
Thank you for sharing this. More people in your situation need to publicly share how bad non-monogamous relationships are for children and families!!
This is why, as a father of girls, it's my top priority to be the best husband that I can for my wife. So they can see that it's possible to have a successful marriage if you take the time and effort. Not only within marriage itself, but in preparing yourself for marriage and discerning the attributes of a good partner.
As a daughter who grew up without a dad or positive male influence, I can’t say how much I appreciate fathers like you bc it DOES make a difference in how we choose the men we date. I firmly believe I would have made better choices when I was younger. From personal experience, it was hard to know what red flags were or what things I should seek in a lifelong partner. Be well! 💜
Love this!
IT takes both Husband and Wife. Husband can not do it alone. "Happy Wife" is doable if she is realistic and rational. If she has irrational expectations and rejects profession guidance a husband can only do so much.
The best gift to our kids in my opinion is hearing them say: WoW Mum & Dad really do love each other! Thank you.
🎉🎉❤❤❤❤❤
Life isn’t about sex. Life is about nobility and sacrifice.
Agreed
It breaks my heart that she originally wanted a man to just love her. That’s normal. It’s almost like she bacame brainwashed. I feel as if deep down she really doesn’t want this. I feel like people who are non monogamous may not have a lot of self respect for themselves. You are worthy of being loved by one man and one man only. You are worthy of a man that chooses you and only you again and again
Agree! You’re aren’t a product of what your parents had or are. So if they got divorced, that doesn’t mean that you will with your partner. It’s a commitment and covenant that you’ll be with each other thru thick and thin. Seems to me like you’d be forever chasing the feelings and not committed to someone life long that you know you can trust, have a friendship with and that is loyal to you and also wants to serve you as their spouse. Seems very self serving!
She became a pick me for him, “i wanted to change him so he could only want me”
She definitely fell in love for a guy that didn’t love her, and opened doors for demons to enter her aka change her.
Agreed you can see it in her eyes. So sad.
Absolutely 👏
yes. this.
Matt sounds like he is out for himself, and Amelia is along for the ride.
@@maddy-books Agreed. But he is doing a lot of talking of "self discovery" and she's doing a lot of agreeing.
@@maddy-booksshe is brainwashed
I agree Josh. Matt comes across selfish and focusing on his own personal life path and Amelia seems to be out for both of them in the relationship to grow together.
@@HeyLady08 I just hate to see the lack of male leadership in a relationship. Grow some balls and love her completely and fully. Be a man.
@@joshlsullivan Thank you for that comment. I am wondering why not too many people think logically any longer.
I really feel for Amelia. It seems like she's done a lot of work to justify this in her mind and the subtle looks of uneasiness Matt gives off when she's talking tells me they aren't exactly on the same page. He closes his arms in front of him. He looks down. He moves the coffee cup. He plays with the wire on the microphone. This was really interesting and also difficult to watch. I'm struck by the selfish overtones of the non-monagamous couple, but mostly Matt. He is conning Amelia out of her youth.
👏👏👏👏bravo! I agree on every point!!!!! 👏👏👏👏👏
Yes… it’s definitely a grooming situation
Or she’s cognizant of not speaking for him.
Yup. And she’s had to look up studies and do research just to justify this lifestyle.
@@mariposaesotericaI remember doing that. "Well here the science says this is good so it must be okay for me to do." I didn't understand commitment. I didn't understand real love!
Loved how both couples were able to respectfully approach this topic. No one was triggered, no one was rude, the world needs more of this. I really loved hearing from Andrew! I don’t tune in too often, but I didn’t know you two were Christian ❤
100% agree!
"our relationship always-- currently comes first" that sentence made my heart break for her. i can't imagine having to give up a huge part of myself for the desires of a man
What if she decides to put another relationship first? It's not always the man's choice or desires that determines the evolution of a relationship. (not looking for a debate, just posing food for thought)
Well in this case it currently was the man saying this.
It was so hard to watch the sadness in her eyes!
What point did she say this?
Exactly. I noticed that statement immediately as well 😢
Gosh...can Andrew create a course for men???? We need more like him! Such a powerful masculine perspective and stance. I really appreciate the other couple coming on and being vulnerable, too.
I was just thinking this. He needs a podcast to teach men how to be men becaue he truly a masculine man and good father.
Yes!!!! Young boys, teens, and men of all ages really need this. I’m a single mother of a 12 year old son who doesn’t have a good male influence in his life. I’m always on the look out for a course or group of men to guide him in the areas I can’t as his mom.
seriously they aren’t raising good moral men like this anymore
There's a course for that, it's called the Bible 🤷🏻♀️
I agree. I like the masculinity! And agree with his wife on it as well. Haven't you heard though nowadays feminist don't like masculinity. Masculinity is dying. We definitely need more men like Andrew!
I hope his children never watch this. It was so hard to watch a father blame him “losing himself” on them. In a marriage and in child rearing we loose old versions of ourselves but the blessings that come from it outweigh anything the world can give us. You can clearly see the blessing of a monogamous relationship in contrast to the non monogamous one in this video. It was a respectful conversation and I enjoyed watching it.
I wouldn’t even say you lose yourself. I think you grow and evolve into a better person (at least that’s how it should be).
I thought the same thing. As a parent, hearing him say that really made me look at him sideways. Everything he said came back to “myself”. So self centered, perhaps he should not have had children
I think a lot of good parents, if they're honest, feel the same way. Especially the ones who commit themselves fully to their children. You are no longer the priority in your life; your family is. I don't believe his children would think he is blaming them. He and his wife made their choices, and after prioritizing their kids while they were dependents, they decided to focus on their personal growth and life experiences again.
@@Chris-ku3ekthat's the thing though... living a life of service to others *is not easy* (because at our core we are self-centered,) But, that doesn't mean it's bad- rather, it's where true lasting fulfillment is found. You find different hobbies and joys that fit with the season of raising young children. Also, kids are not little for very long. They grow up very fast.
Clearly those "blessings" didn't outweigh the sacrifices, or he would still be with the mother of his children. Instead, he lost many years of his life, and got no further ahead. It's funny that you try to use this as an example of the "blessings" of a monogamous relationship, when he is only here because his monogamous relationship failed. So many parents lose their own identities while raising children, and either end up miserable or have to rebuild their lives from scratch.
This conversation has made me feel excited for deepening my monogamous relationship.
Same😊
Agreed
Yup
Andrew is a good man.
Absolutely you can just see the love he has for Ellen
So incredibly true!
"I am with someone for a reason" and all is clear.
Seriously god bless him prayer for a man like him 🙏🏻💕✨
He's absolutely one of a kind. a Good, moral, honest man.
So nice to see Ellen and Andrew just cheer for their relationship. Their eyes lit up. They shine, i can feel the Security they speak about. Authentic. This is the word.
Listening to this made me realize how much I subconsciously hold Christian values. My biggest issue with the guests argument was the self centered ideologies they both held. If you are living to serve yourself, than how can you maintain a consistent relationship with your partner? Long term relationships exist on selfless acts.
For all the new agey chat Matt uses to gloss his ridiculous choices - he obviously isn’t familiar with the Dalai Lama’s instruction that true happiness comes from serving others….. a very Jesus like comment. The greatest teachers all recognise the value of a committed marriage tbh.
Amelia is showing all the signs of being conditioned. She looks to him for approval and to see how he is reacting to how she is answering the questions. This is painful to watch because she is obviously trying to convince herself. I hope she realizes and has better for herself. Thank you Ellen for this!!! Must be talked about!
I don’t think she’s conditioned. I think she’s looking towards him to see if he agrees and to include him in the conversation since she’s more comfortable with public speaking in general. She’s done this on their RUclips videos as well.
I DO think being so open minded that you’re generally open to everything CAN actually be a negative thing..which I see in her case. I think she’d be incredibly happy in a monogamous relationship but liked this person enough to change what she wanted.
Exactly what I thought they are constantly and entire time looking at each other for approval .. idk kind of awkward …
I don’t agree with their lifestyle but it seems she’s moreso practicing being very attentive to what he says & being an active listener which I’d say is a very positive thing.
👏👏 exactly, it was PAINFUL TO WATCH 👏👏
I felt the same
I just have to say I find it so brave for people like this who have an opposing view to Ellen to come onto a podcast where they know a strong percentage of the audience will highly disagree and subject themselves to what I’m seeing in the comments. What is truth to some may be different than ours, and I appreciate Ellen’s platform allowing for differing opinions to be discussed openly and with mutual respect. And thank you to Amelia and Matt for their willingness to share their perspective in a compassionate way.
I appreciate how welcoming and positive your comment is!
I was recommended this video because I follow poly RUclipsrs - I’m not a subscriber of Ellen’s - and this comment is just,
Very cozy.
It makes me happy to see someone like you respecting and acknowledging a truth and a lifestyle that may not be right for you, but is right for others. Thank you for that.
@@JyujinPlus awww I so appreciate that ♥️ I wish there was more space for appreciating other points of view in our world! Thank you for the kind words :)
Absolutely 💯
Amelia looking to Matt for assurance is alarming. Making sure she has said all the right things.
Matt needs to be alone and hide himself. Understand himself , heal his wounds from relationship.
Amelia just seems like she may not understand her self worth. That she is worthy of some really loving her. I would to hear about how her father loved her and her mother. Or what her mother demonstrated love to be for her.
Father stay in your daughter's lives.
It is whats in psychology is called daddy issues. Not a lovely term. But the age gap and her patents split up. This tends to be the result.
Came to the comments in search of this!! Spot on! I knew I couldn't have been the only one to think this!! To add: Poly is definitely more designed for men. Just another selfish way to get what one wants as needed, at least in terms of "being upfront about it".. having their cake and eating all of it! lol... In the end there's no long term fulfillment in instant satisfaction, just living life always in search of finding another to fill the empty void. Perfect example of this: Elvis Presley who lived a "lonesome" life. So many women throwing themselves at him but never able to pick and stay faithful to one, left him alone in the end.
I think the emphasis being placed so heavily on the self in the polyamorous dynamic is very likely to lead to emptiness long-term. Giving into every whim and desire is not the way to be the most authentic version of yourself, or live the most fulfilling life you can. There's so much to be said for the beauty of a love that's committed and fully secure. I would feel so unsettled knowing that the ultimate focus of my partner is their own personal evolution and that I may or may not have a role in that depending on their feelings. I personally believe there's so much more growth, healing, and even freedom to be had within a lifelong, monogamous marriage.
Yes. A loving and committed marriage provides the safest and most secure environment, emotionally and physically, for exploring and learning about yourself and your partner. And for growing together. No risk of STD's. No risk of any paternal disputes. As well as an ever increasing level of trust.
This is sooooo true
I was like this and I realized it was my avoidance in attachment. It's safe to take care of yourself only and not rely on other people.
Stop trying to project your own insecurities and just be happy that they're happy. Monogamy is just one way to build a relationship. It is not, and never will be, the only way.
@@PicardoFamily11Which is why up to 50% of monogamous marriages end in divorce... Also, plenty of monogamous married couples have hereditary STDs, which they then pass on to their children.
This video was so painful to watch, I had to stop it at the 27-min mark. My heart goes out to Amelia for being in this situation. She admitted herself that what she wanted from the beginning was to be in a loving, monogamous relationship. But she has compromised those needs since she started dating Matt. I’m not convinced that she believes the words coming out of her own mouth. Her body language says otherwise.
I’m not saying any of this to be cruel or demeaning. I went through a similar situation myself in my mid-to-late 20s, so I empathize with Amelia. I wasted four years of my life with a man who was not much different than Matt. He even used the same new agey talking points to justify what is ultimately a very self-centered lifestyle. And because of my own deep insecurities and unresolved traumas at the time, I fell in line even though I knew deep down that something wasn’t right. I was in a state of denial, which did a lot of damage in the end.
If you’re reading this comment, Amelia, I want you to know that you’re worth so much more than that, and you deserve to be with a man who will love and commit to you and ONLY you. Please don’t make the same mistake I made by wasting precious years of your youth that you’ll never get back. You mentioned that you want to settle down and raise a family. My fear is that you’ll end up feeling disappointed if you start a family with Matt given his own history with his previous marriage and the troubling things he confessed about his own kids. I’m also concerned because you both lack the confidence you’ll remain together for the long haul by your own admission. This is very risky not only to yourself but for your future children should you continue down this path. All children deserve stability and security and parents who love each other and are 100 percent committed to one another. I really hope you reconsider the current path you're on.
Keep this 💩 to yourself. She didn't compromise, she learned about new and better types of relationships that she hadn't considered before, and now she's with a man she loves. Instead of trying to project your own insecurities onto her, just be happy for them. Chances are she will learn from Matt's earlier mistake and opt out of wasting time having children.
@@joshklaver47you're so angry. God loves you.
@@saltandsriracha God isn't real.
@@joshklaver47this person is just sharing their opinion…. It’s not shit… try a little respect… it actually leads to happiness and compassion… and secondly, the poly girl said she wants kids… her words….
@@joshklaver47 stop commenting on every person's pro-marriage post. You're angry. Chill. Everyone has an opinion. Non monogamy isn't bad, nor is monogamy. One is only bad if there is already instability in the relationship. That is all.
I admire Ellen and Andrew and their marriage so much ❤. Their side is so much more convincing
Ellen and Andrew are such a beautiful couple!
Agreed
Absolutely not
Matt gives me the ick! Girly, you deserve a man that only wants you, always. If you want to date around-STAY SINGLE!!!!! Having a fun night experiencing something like a threesome with your partner is one thing but dating people out of boredom while being married is not a marriage 🤷🏻♀️
I completely agree with you!!
100% agreed.
Yuck. These kind of closed-minded ideas about marriage are a big part of why it has been such a failure. You can absolutely have meaningful and loving relationships with multiple people. Stop trying to project your own insecurities.
@@joshklaver47then that isn't marriage. A marriage that isn't God based isn't what marriage was intended for. So why bother getting married? Just have a relationship that doesn't involve making forever vows to someone.
@@saltandsriracha Lots of people who aren't religious get married. God has nothing to do with it.
Ellen hit the nail on the head
Currently that's all this world is seeking now, the next thrill. No matter how immoral, unhealthy or humiliating it is.
Are you trying to say that polyamory is immoral, unhealthy, or humiliating? If so, that is absolutely not true.
@@joshklaver47 if that's the conclusion you garnered from my comment then, yes, that's what I'm saying. Humans just want what they want. It's the same with the food choices we make, we don't care how bad, unethical or unhealthy it is, we just want it because it taste good while we're chewing and swallowing. Then what, hello heart disease, diabetes and the list goes on, because of the poor selfish choices we make. I personally think it's ridiculous to be in a relationship with more than one person. Sharing your love and being intimate between a couple is in my opinion, ideal and rewarding in the long term. No wonder kids are so confused in these current times. We are making life more complicated than it needs to be. Ellen debated her point of view with intelligence and understanding.
@@thetruthhurts599 🤣🤣 "ethical, unhealthy, and bad" are the most blatantly stupid words you could use to describe polyamory. It's okay if you don't want that, but we are all unique and should have the right to live the way it works for us as long as we are not hurting others. There is a reason it is called "ethical nonmonogamy"... because everyone is consenting and happy with it. And polyamory is 100% natural. "Poly" means many, and "Amor" means love... we are social and emotional creatures that can have many loves... a person will have many friends, many interests and hobbies, many foods that they like to eat.. Why is it completely different only when it comes to romance and is considered "wrong" to have many loves? We are the only mammals that practice monogamy...it goes against our biology. It is a religious and social construct. but if it works for you/if you want to commit to the path of marriage and one partner I believe that that is beautiful and I do not judge someone for living their happiness... monogamous or not :)
@@sophiyashakti hi ashakti. I bet you're in one of those relationships where "poly" means many women and "amor" means one man to 100 women. Great luck on your choice of lifestyle. It is unhealthy, immoral and humiliating in my opinion and above all, selfish. Please live that way amongst yourselves and leave reproduction out of it. All you'll do is create a group of confused children. Go back and read my comment. I used unethical and bad to describe eating habits such as consuming animal flesh. Maybe in your mind when you read those words it spoke to you of your sexual choices. Those 2 laugh emojiis you used at the beginning of your comment is how I react when polyamorians try to justify their choices.
@@sophiyashakti Actually, history shows the one of the biggest factor in developing human biology and diverging our evolutionary paths from chimpanzees was actually female sexual selection. When we traded intestinal length for a bigger brain due to the discovery of fire and cooking, babies had to be delivered younger and bigger, making both the baby and the woman incredibly vulnerable during child care. So the theory is that women couldn't risk having sex with just any ol' guy, they had to either pick a guy who was actually competent, protective, and caring, or shame the men into being so. So, it actually goes with our biology to pair bond. And besides, who cares if most mammals don't do pair bonding like us anyway? We're the only animal in the world to have sophisticated consciousness, it shouldn't be surreal to take one more step and say we're also unique in the way we bond and have intimacy. Yes, we've invented birth control, but that was less than a century ago. We're still not used to doing it any other way except for the monogamy that we've been practicing for millions of years, biologically and physiologically speaking.
Also, it isn't so obvious that everyone is 'happy' with polyamory. Very few monogamous couples are intelligent and diligent enough to practice honesty and love and competence in order to make it work and truly be happy, and even fewer for polyagamous couples.
Judging by your comment, I might assume you have a clear distaste for oppressive religious beliefs and traditional social/cultural values and are a woman, perhaps with some daddy issues. And also judging by how passive aggressive this comment is and how generously you apologize and default to 'we all win' opinions yet secretly undercut it with brutal remarks, I'm just gonna assume your partner(s) isn't (aren't) very happy with you despite what they say. But these are just assumptions, made in strawman form for you to easily debunk if you're honest.
So much respect to Andrew as a man, and Ellen as a woman, their family and strength of their deep bond nurturing them all. ❤️
I hope everyone here finds their deserving of a deep commited love, and not compromise for anyone
Technically, Matt compromised for his children, which is why he had to essentially start from scratch and rebuild his life.
@@joshklaver47you brought your children into this world, you don't compromise for them, you sacrifice for them. Matt is just selfish.
@@saltandsriracha He made a mistake by having children, and he most likely won't repeat that mistake. Children just aren't worth the sacrifice.
My husband and I met when we were 15 years old. We were married at 20 years old. 33 years later we have been married for 33 years and have 5 kids and 7 grandchildren. I truly believe having God in our lives has been the anchor
This podcast made me want to take care of my man. I love him and my kids so much.
Why? They are replaceable. Just like you.
@@firefly9838 someone said that to me once and used it as an excuse to abuse me. What an awful thing to say
I'm glad porn was mentioned. I feel porn has damaged relationships and people's view of commitment and sex. It creates a lot of betrayal trauma when one person in a marriage uses it due to the resulting toxic behaviors that ensue.
Absolutely. It is a huge issue in today's society as far as finding a committed partner.
That's why my partner and I don't watch porn.
Yes porn topics be great. Is even playboy healthy? And the extremes 😢
We, like a human species are very traumatized and we used porn all this called "adult things" to cover up the pain we carry inside our body, where ultimately we need just to be loved
How does a wife help a spouse who is addicted to it but won't stop?
This was an episode that was hard for me to listen to, because such an opposing view is hard to be open minded about and to listen to…but I’m glad I listened. And oddly enough, I am even more convinced that a monogamous relationship with my husband is the only thing I want. We have been through extremely difficult situations and incredibly wonderful experiences and I would choose him and this relationship all over again. Thanks for this episode 👏
As I've been listening to more of these kinds of debates and discussions the more I start to see just how desperately these people need to be shown what the love of Christ truly looks like. There is so much hurt and heartache that has led these people to these destructive or negative lifestyles. From promiscuity, to abortion, and even the whole gender identity crisis.
You are so right! Marriage is a gift from God. And the world needs Jesus Christ. Amen to everything you said 💯👏
@@PicardoFamily11They aren't interested in your religious crap. So many of these problems were started by religious indoctrination and the hate and bigotry it brings in the first place. We've had enough.
It’s hard for me to listen to the opposite side of things, too. But I really appreciate what Ellen and Andrew did here by offering a platform for the opposite perspective.
Especially cuz, so far, this video is making me more content and secure in how excited I am to explore the world with my partners and meet new loves that we get to share! And glad we have this little moment where like,
People with different relationships can all be proud of how we live and love.
I’m of the camp that doesn’t like to share my husband lol.
What an interesting conversation, thanks for sharing
I think if Matt approached Amelia and said ‘I want to fully commit to you and only you’, Amelia would prefer that. Maybe not at this age since the sexual exploration can feel fun and exhilarating especially when you’re young. But with children, time and age, stability and commitment are incredible and I cannot imagine a better thing to pursue. I’m not religious and wouldn’t call what they are doing a sin by any means. I’ve been open minded to polyamory but this conversation really inspired me and made me realize that commitment in all ways is my ultimate desire. I think the broken families that Amelia and Matt come from have hardened their hearts to the beauty of monogamy. They’re right that it is harder. But I for one do not want to take the easy path.
Very well said. I agree.
It's not harder to be monogamous. If anything it's easier to just close your eyes and tell yourself that your relationship is perfect and you'll be together forever. Monogamy isn't beautiful; it's just one of many ways to build a relationship, and in many cases it fails, as it did here. It's actually much more difficult to manage the needs and emotions of multiple different people, while dealing with your own life and potentially feelings of jealousy or insecurity. That takes real dedication and commitment.
Maybe but then the human psyche seems to covet what we cannot have and disregard what we do have. We are an odd species!
@@surfreadjumpsleep You can have more than one partner, but if you disregard them, they won't be your partners for very long.
I feel like if u replace "non monogomous" with " i didnt want to commit to her, because i wanted to sleep with other people for my own benefit(spiritual, physical, etc)". It changes the conversation.... fluffy words dont negate what is actually being said.
Started dating my hubby when we were 15 and we got married at 18 and 19. He’s my only! We are celebrating 20 years of marriage this August and I’m more in love with him now than ever! And yes there were a few very hard years.
Ellen your questions were so great and you and Andrew were so gracious and kind!
I have no religious conviction for or against monogamy- but in a world where every option is available at your finger tips, isn’t someone choosing you, and only you, time and time again the most beautiful experience of living out unconditional love? Not in a self serving way,( like an unconscious desire to be picked) - but more in a shared energetic experience between two, where y’all cultivate this third entity that is based on mutual understanding, growth, and passion. I understand everyone has free will, and as a generation Z woman I will continue to exercise that free will to only reproduce with men who have qualities of bravery, loyalty, and discipline as that is what the current gene pool is calling for…
Since you said you're gonna "reproduce with mEn", does it mean you're planning on building your own harem of wonderful dudes? xD
Joking aside, this is one of the reasons why I also ultimately prefer monogamy - in spite of not being traditionally religious and having nothing against people prefering poly lifestyle. Happily married to a wonderful dude, I have zero temptation to pour my energy into anyone else sexually and/or romantically. Regardless of what you ultimately choose in your love life, I wish you all the best, from a younger millenial woman.
exactly!
I had a chuckle at how many times the poly couple said “unconditional love” like if they say it enough times it makes it true
Exactly my thoughts. It so much more special when someone says "I choose you out of everyone else in the world". Compared to the mindset, "you don't satisfy me completely so I'm going to get that from another person", like the poly couple does.
No, not really. Monogamy and polyamory are just different ways to build a relationship. There's no right or wrong way. There's just what works for you and what doesn't. Simple as that.
Andrew and Ellen nailed it. The gospel is where truth shines and Jesus dying for his bride is what makes marriage such a beautiful picture of redemption and love.
What ?
💯🙏🏼
this is just dumb ....
Amen 🕊️
Opening a relationship with children up to outsiders puts the kids at risk. The same goes for dating as a single parent. You have to protect them.
What Amelia says doesn't match her heart. She doesn't know it yet, but she can truly be happy one day, not with that guy.
YES exactly what I was thinking!!
I feel like they're talking in circles and skirting the questions using a lot of new age jargon.
This was very difficult to watch.
Thank you for setting such a solid example for your children, each other, and those watching. Ellen and Andrew.
My heart goes out for those focused only on the self (the flesh) and not on the full spectrum of life. I wish only the best for Amelia and Matt.
I'm just curious why did you think it was difficult to watch?
@@Florinaissance I honestly believe it is Matt’s desire to seek sexual gratification outside his relationship and I believe Amelia goes along as a means to hold on to that relationship.
It’s obvious how much Amelia has invested in the relationship and what she sacrifices. I did not witness Matt sharing equal love or sacrifices to Amelia only to himself.
In my humble opinion, Amelia is dealing with a narcissist. Sadly I don’t give their marriage much hope of surviving. I predict it’s just a matter of time before Matt moves on to another more beautiful, desirable, and physical to properly feed his unchecked narcissistic ego. AND! He will probably become monogamous in this new relationship which will add even more heartache to Amelia.
It takes effort and confidence not to settle. We can seek and find our close-to perfect mate; a person that adores us as much as we adore them. Amelia certainly deserves that kind of love, devotion and admiration. We all do.
Then I thought about what nasty bacteria and viruses are possibly being introduce to each other? Well, you asked.
So yes, it was extremely difficult for me to watch and I doubt very much I am the only one.
I felt the same way. She’s brainwashed. And when she mentioned they will raise their kids to know about this kind of relationship is abuse.
She is very naiive when it comes to raising children. She spoke on “I’ll support them and let them know they can have ANY relationship they want”. Children don’t need that. Children need stability. Young children need to see their loving parents together. And most importantly, they need parents that don’t think the ultimate goal in life is to serve yourself.
@@yellowsubmarine615 I came to write this exact thing. Children thrive on stability and routine especially when they're little. They don't need hippie parents indoctrinating them with open relationship nonesense.
INTERESTING conversation! So respectful, yet honest and courageous! Thanks for asking all those hard questions, both sides!
Andrew should really start his own podcast or start a book, as a man in his twenties I resonate with a lot of what he shared in this podcast. 90% of male media I feel is just constantly pushing the “playboy”, and “men should be allowed to cheat” narrative and it is getting pretty tiring and gross. It feels increasingly rare that men truly share those natural, genuine biological feelings towards their partner, much less actually practice them every day. The more men that speak out for the true nuclear family and sacred values, the better our society will be from it in all aspects.
I don't know, it just seems to me that everytime somebody speaks about polygamy it boils down to two reasons.
"I want to be with you but:
1) I don't want to control my sexual instincs in any way whatsoever
2) Whenever new butterflies pop in my stomach, I want to act on them because they feel good, even if that means I'm risking our relationship"
Exactly, it's like Ellen said, going after and seeking the next thrill.
So… did you miss the parts Amelia talked about discovery, and self improvement, learning about yourself and learning about other people, or how it facilitates deeper communication and understanding because they have to be conscious of one another’s needs?
Cuz that feels a lot deeper than “the next thrill”.
@@JyujinPlus Feels like trying to justify "the next thrill" to me. Just my opinion.
I agree it feels like alot of philosophizing to justify the lifestyle. You can twist anything to make it seem good, but that doesn’t mean that it *IS* good.
Andrew should definitely be on more often!
Oh my goodness I’m sooo excited for this episode! My friends and I have also been discussing this at length. Thanks so much for having this convo!!!!
“So much focus on raising the children and not enough on myself” - real quote from Matt. How can this be seen as a viable lifestyle?!
He clearly is selfish and didn’t want to be a father and blamed his selfishness on monogamy
The quality of these two relationships are incomparable.
Looking at Matt's body language, it looks like he's very nervous and feels exposed 😂😅. Amelia was like "oh we would never do that to each other when dealing with post partum it's us first" he was rubbing his fingers together more frequently and strumming his fingers on the table. Like you know he was thinking and feeling differently. Amelia sounds like she's trying to sell herself this lifestyle bc she's greatly attached to Matt and wants him with her ultimately, in some way
The series of events he talks about at 12 minutes makes no sense. The problem was that he and his wife "lost themselves" while raising children... So the solution is to leave her and the children and have sex with a bunch of strangers? That's where he "finds himself"? How is that the antidote? This guy thinks about himself way too much. He's talking about how he needs to find himself, diversify himself, and evolve himself... What if "evolving" and "diversifying" as an adult meant being less self-centered (like children are) and more compassionate toward children and the example one sets for them...? He should just keep it simple and say he didn't like the responsibility of having children, that it took up too much of his "me time". What a dork. She almost sounds like she's going to cry at 14:30. She is a sweetheart who deserves a man who is actually in love with her. The amount of times she repeats her dream of a stable family life in order to compare it to how much "better communication" she has in her current relationship is very sad. The amount of times she has to reference "research coming out now" to justify her current situation...
I can read her eyes she doesn't want this for herself deep down. That Indonesian guy is selfish most times when he speaks he uses the word "self" a lot .
I really tried to listen to this with an open mind. Near the beginning, he blamed losing himself on his kids. It's really hard for me to be open to someone who won't take responsibility for his own short comings. He thinks he needs to rely on sex with lots of people to "find himself." Sorry bro, you're never going to find what you are looking for that way.
to feed his ego sounds more like it.
As per my belief system, Polyamory is such a toxicity, disrespect to all involved, extremely selfish, traumatizing and disastrous. People who are extremely insecure, not able to love themselves, not able to value them want attention from multiple people. They want to hv multiple sex partners, threesome, foursome n the greed goes on and on in the name of being cool. It is so important to love oneself and be loyal n committed to ourselves and, just one person to develop a healthy mindset and a stable home 💗
Ellen, you said it beautifully at the end! What if the world didn’t have a victim mindset. You’re such a wonderful inspiration to others. Thank you!
Very interesting conversation. I feel sorry for Amelia! She is with a man who’s lived life, been married, has kids…something that she obviously desires but may never have in this type of relationship. This man has been hurt and is trying to find his way through failure, and she is unfortunately going along for the ride. He’s afraid of commitment and this type of relationship allows him to come and go as he pleases. I pray she wakes up and finds the man that can lead her, commit to her, and love her the way she truly desires and start that life and family she obviously wants to have ❤🙏🏾
In my personal experience, I was in an open relationship when I was 21, instigated by me, which essentially meant we were open about our attraction to other people with each other, and if we wanted to pursue a romantic or sexual connection that could be a possibility. Looking back, I honestly believe it was motivated by my lack of self-worth, and need for validation beyond what my partner could offer.
I cringe in hindsight at how little empathy I had, because I was so self-focused, that I didn't consider how it would affect my partner, and didn't recognize at the time it was to fill a void. Needless to say, it didn't work out and now I am in a committed and healthy monogamous partnership for the last 4 years (29 now). Ellen is right, that moving through challenging times and celebrating joyous times with your partner only strengthens the love and attraction you can experience. I'm not against polyamory, but I do wish someone had encouraged me to check where that desire came from. ❤❤❤
I feel this 100%! I was in the same boat with my first serious relationship. Now monogamous and happier because we put in so much work to be each others anchors
Jealousy is a NATURAL feeling obviously if your partner is going on a date with someone else. It’s not something that you have to “look within” to work on if you’re triggered.
I disagree, it absolutely can be worked on within yourself.
@@kbanghart what's the point, it's not natural
@@epicfreakshow jealously is entirely natural.
@@kbanghart I mean it’s not natural to try and remove that feeling
Please offer your definition of jealousy. @@kbanghart
I’m so proud of my husband and our relationship. 10 years together so far 3 children with our 4th on the way. I love him more today than I did yesterday. It just grows everyday. I love him my children and our life so much there is no time or space for anyone else. I can’t even imagine.
Polyamory is such a mediaval practice, and widely discouraged by medics and psychologists, but hey: internet to the rescue
I feel so sad for Amelia. I was her 10 years ago, mid-twenties, long distance dating a guy with kids who just got divorced, same exact reasoning for the open relationship. She has convinced herself that this relationship with him is more important than all of her instinctive feelings and desires. I would be interested to see where they are in 5 more years.
Leavings one's wife and kids to awaken one's kundalini is crazy dawg!
Wow!! So excited to listen. Props to you ellen for tackling tricky subjects like this
I had tears in my eyes as i watched it to the End Ellen! So a respectfull and thoughtfull discussion and the way you spoke together! Thank you for showing up this way!
"There is a connection when someone else comes in the picture". It's called lust.
She is obviously more in love with him than he is with her. The whole relationship is based on what he wants and how he wants it. In order to be with him, she submitted to his way of thinking. She isn't being her authentic self because she fears not being with him. She looked for his approval the whole time. He did a good jet eye mind trick on this woman...smh
It’s so sad….
I don’t think she was looking to him for approval but more so to include him in the conversation. Matt probably has a fear of public speaking (I think it’s come across in some of their RUclips videos together). Even though I don’t resonate with their lifestyle, I appreciate their bravery in coming on!
Totally
@forevermia622 Yeah, I guess you are right. She was probably just trying to include him. I agree, they are definitely brave to come on in public and speak about that type of relationship. I still do believe that she definitely loves him a lot more than he loves her. For a woman to share her man with another woman cause otherwise he won't be with her blows my mind. But to each their own.
💯 agree
If you’re losing yourself after you have children, you need to go on more dates with your spouse and find time to get into hobbies and deepen your relationship with your spouse and children. I don’t agree with this. Interesting conversation, but seems very “me focused”. As a believer in Christ, I don’t think this is healthy overall. Raising children and having multiple partners will be very dicey. Kid need stability. Seems like it could be dangerous too all living together.
You’re absolutely right! Well said 💯❤️
Completely agree. I see many people believe that having multiple people in a relationship, will help raising the children, but that can also happen with family and friends, not necessarily with other people you sleep with.
He tried that. It failed. They don't care about your religious beliefs.
Woooow! Amazing topic conversation, and it is really beautiful to see such a two different opinions being able to talk, listen actively without wanting to change the others opinion. I can totally resonate with ideas and opinions from both sides and I really appreciate the way both relationships look like. Very very interesting topic and very well talked from everyone. Thanks for it and for your gentle courage and passion when tackling difficult topics and guiding the conversation thorough it. Very inspiring ✨🌸
This was such an amazing episode. It was so insightful to hear from such opposite experiences. Amelia spoke so well, so informative and grounded in her experience. I loved hearing Andrews perspective as well. I feel so inspired by both types of relationships. Amelia and Matt expressed a beautiful example of conscious non monogamy and Ellen and Andrew’s lifelong commitment to each other is truly inspiring. Wow Ellen such a great episode! Really respectful informative sharing. Looking forward to the next opposing views episode!
I love the respect for differences that guided this entire conversation. It feels like both sides spoke to the values of authenticity and intentionality and both clearly live those values in their relationships. Thanks for hosting this Ellen!
If these 2 have kids later and are still together I'd like to see another podcast to see how things have changed..also curious on their vows if not overstepping..since she said they were not so traditional. Inspired by a very healthy debate and understanding. Great video!
I doubt he wants kids. They'd get in the way of him having fun. Maybe one day she will have children.
I was really hoping they would get more into that part of it. Having kids is full on.
Really fascinating episode, and equally fascinating reading the comments and reactions that others have had..
I’ve followed you for about 6 years and this is my favorite video yet 🙌🏼 You and Andrew are an inspiration! ❤
My open relationship felt fun for the thrill of the ups&downs, but ultimately - I realized it was feeding that toxicity I had yearned for at the time. I’m now in a monogamous relationship with a man who cherishes me like I never could have imagined. He spent an entire year being patient with me as I worked through this insecurity I had with commitment, and I am now on the other side feeling like this is what the younger me had always wanted. I grew up with an abusive father who left when I was about 7 years old. It took a huge toll on my idea of love, and now that I have an honest man with values like Andrew, I recognize how much of a blessing and treasure it is to have someone that is TRULY and UNCONDITIONALLY in love with me. Monogamy is a feeling like no other, and I think is the healthiest vow someone can make.
Polyamory is such a mediaval practice, and widely discouraged by psychologists, but hey: internet to the rescue
I recommend disregarding this no-research-video here and instead watch 'Welcome to the internet'
This is a wonderful comment. ❤️
As a woman listening to Andrew he sounds like a real Godly masculine man! Young ladies please look out for this a man who can use reason and avoiding risk to make gis decisions vs just trying to have fun and not planning ahead.
ellen yes!!!!! im so glad you posted this, didn't even watch yet but I love this topic. beautiful how you and Andrew have been together!!
this answered so many questions for me, thank you to both couples for your vulnerability.
Very diplomatic and well-conducted conversation 💕
Shan Boodram would be an AMAZING person to bring on to further this discussion for the non-monogomus/ poly/ open sexually side. Educated, well articulated, experienced, the list goes on. I understand its difficult to get opposing sides to come on publically, I've just felt the "opposing" side sometimes could have a stronger representation. Thank you for bringing this conversations to the table!!
Yaaass bring shan into this pleaseee!
I was thinking the same thing!
Just hearing these two talk is so bizarre. "Unconditional love".... "integrity"...... "we put each other first"..... these are all things that only a monogamous couple can actually hold to.
Wow, I am so impressed with this point of view for you to have on your podcast! Excited to listen ❤
I feel so bad for women in this situation it just sounds so heartbreaking… do they not understand how much one person can and should love you
Thank you for this Ellen and Andrew ❤ you two are a gem in two bodies. Thank God for the way you were raised in life and for your own individual choices ❤
I absolutely loved this conversation. So interesting to hear both perspectives. And Amelia’s smile is the most contagious thing ever!
Intresting forsure, from Matt & Amelia I hear alot of "me, me, me self, self, self" & Andrew & Ellen very much selfLESSness toward eachother & their children! Ellen & Andrew please bless us with a marriage course ❤
LOVED this episode! ✨ I think the main thing I gathered from the non-monogamous side is that self-actualization and fulfilling one’s desires/curiosities is seen as the highest value in a relationship. But I can attest that if you are in a relationship with the right person, they will never be an impediment to your growth.
I love that at the end of the day my husband is committed to me, aside from the versions of me that I have been or have yet to become. And it brings me great comfort that he made a choice to be with me and not to future whims he may experience. This episode made me hug my guy a little tighter and express my gratitude to him for his dedication to me. Monogamy is SEXY ❤️🔥
love that for u sis!
I’m in a committed monogamous relationship with my husband and I would never be open to an open relationship but it’s definitely interesting to see their side of things! I found this conversation very informative! Thanks Ellen
Same here. To each is own but I won't judge.
What an interesting episode. I enjoy learning about others perspectives and experiences that contrast greatly from my own. We truly are all incredibly unique, and the way this presents itself with each individual is fascinating
I’m curious to what anyone else thinks about the body language. I personally don’t like when a guy places their elbow on the girlfriends shoulder like an armrest. It always gave me a icky body language vibe. Around the body feels more warm.
Not every feeling should be explored. Not every thought needs to be actualized.
Thank you Ellen and Andrew and the whole fisher family for inviting us into this conversation and hosting us in your beautiful home! This podcast was a HUGE leap out of our comfort zones, knowing that so many will watch it or listen to it and form their own opinions, but overall I feel so proud of the conversation the four of us co-created and am very grateful for our friendship, Ellen. Thank you for the respect, kindness and consideration you and Andrew have shown Matt and me (and so many others in our lives!) 💗 It was so nice getting to spend more time with both of you and your gorgeous family. Congratulations on another spectacular episode ellen fisher podcast team! Much love always x x Amelia & Matt
Thank you for sharing your experience and vulnerability. You have so much wisdom to offer people in any type of relationship, specifically your efforts to continuously show up from a place of respect and love for everyone in your life.
I appreciated the listening and courtesy that was offered on both sides of the table but it frustrated me when some of the statistics about divorce, children, unplanned pregnancies, etc. were continuously being posed to you when clearly the two of you are approaching your relationship from a very conscious place. Most people, monogamous or not, do not live their lives consciously, so I felt these stats were erroneous, as evident by your relationship with your partner's children. Especially, when they were so quick to say how THEIR relationship, as monogamous Christians, is so unique that stats you bought up didn't apply to them.
Furthermore, bringing up scripture as evidence to support anything is so boring and weak. Of course, discussing ones spirituality is important in the context of relationships, but using it as proof is about as valid as saying "This is right because an alien told me so". Still, you remained poised and gracious.
With that said, thank you to everyone involved for this fascinating conversation.
Loved this video Ellen!!! Keep up the good work in showing how we can have positive conversations about controversial topics! Do you think it would be possible to do a recommended books video on your other channel?! I would love to know some the resources you’ve read in various areas of life!
Brilliant podcast and conversation and sharing of views. Thank you! Most appreciated ♥
Thank you for making this! I actually agree with parts of both sides. I am in a loving monogamist partnership, but ever since the beginning we have discussed the possibility of being open. I value monogamy a lot, but it is so refreshing to be able to discuss "taboo" topics that most couples would never discuss. We may never open our relationship, but even just discussing the possibility of dating or flirting with others is a bit exciting even if it is never acted on (this is called "monogomish"). I do truly believe people can be happy doing both lifestyles, so I appreciate you showcasing this!
Here in Denmark/ Scandinavia the schools offer therapy and grief groups for children, who lose their family to divorce. People can do what they want if theirs no children involved. But partnership is a total next level when including children💕
I love this conversation, both sides are full of love, consideration and kindness! Such similar foundational values just different presentations ❤
Love this conversation. I’ve been married 20 years and my husband and I are only 41 yo. Raised two great kids and now we are focusing more on our bond and relationship in this new season. We are together to the end. I’m so happy to have a committed partner in this life.
This is why I have loved Ellen's channels. I haven't watched the video yet but the trailer... I really appreciate Ellen' and Andrew's testimony and Christian family values.
Her sure don’t dress like no Christian, she gonna show her Fanny in them thong swimsuits in every video!
The ”Kundalini” guy has more walls and guarded presence than the conservative christian family man… isn’t that ’funny’ huh? Being guarded means you have ulterior motives, thoughts best kept in secret, because we all clearly know he didn’t agree with his partner even, and what he has worded with his mouth is that sex for him is a necessary way to express ’something’ in him that is different and can only exist in that sexual lustful meeting.
I hope when he is 73 and lonely he feels proud of a long career of lust expressing. While Andrew can feel proud of providing, protecting, loving, growing, a home, a healthy wife, 5 beautiful principled useful kind homeschooled young ones that will carry on the best of their traditions and way of harmony in the world. ❤
Matt already had kids, and that turned out to be a bad idea. There's no reason why Andrew won't feel the same way some day. Stop projecting your own insecurities, and keep your opinions to yourself.
@@joshklaver47 Preach
Spot on lol. Matt is such a selfish, sickening person, everything about him is just sleazy. Meanwhile Andrew has principal. Rare but golden quality in men nowadays
@@joshklaver47cope
@@joshklaver47 no argumenting against my points, just calling it "insecurities/opinions". Great contribution mate
I feel like this is a really beautiful conversation between the four of you! It kind of also seems like the statistics in research you both looked into were very different lol I feel like when we have a set opinion we can definitely find proof of it. I feel like this episode really helped open my mind in a lot of ways, and I just want to come forth with gratitude and thank you.
Love this. Both sides are compelling and it makes me think! Thanks for sharing!
Ellen you killed this interview. You are so smart . I got very vague answers from the other couple.
Thank you for this amazing episode ❤
feelings come and go,commitment to eachother is godly
I also was so happy both couples were able to share their diverging views Respectfully, and listen to one another. In our simplistic age, this is rare. It is the art of dialectic...