@yorhaserene8604 Eli Lake works for the right-wing outlets, Daily Beast and Newsweek. I'm sure he is getting some of his paycheck from orgs representing the Israel gov't.
It's easy to refute liars, bro. Everything Norm is repeating is factual. It is immutable and these comics(?) have their collective heads up their arse.
This comment made me realize what’s really happening here. I thought Finklestein was finally in front of a non pandering audience and actually got obliterated. I was glad to see him on the back heel. There are 2 completely different situations going on in Israelistine and you either see one or the other. What a trick the devil is playing on us all.
I am from jewish living in tel aviv. i respect mr finkelstein more then any of politics in knesset. i was told entourage, neighbors and any of my relatives to hate gaza and hamas. these past months i opened up to other voices and point of views after visiting new york met this men. told that to my parents they were furious,outraged, like this men is the boogeymen of the jewish community in new york,don't approch him,he's a kapo. after more self reflexion, i supported the palestinian cause and their right to live in israel with same right equal. my parents havnt speak to me since then. i couldnt live with the position i was holding. i can't say nothing at work with workmate, i can't have this conversation with my rabbi. but i know deep inside i made the right decision
Professor Norman debating these idiots is like Einstein debating an infant on quantum physics. It’s disproportional, they never stood a chance. Professor Norman is a treasure to our species.
What a dignified gentleman..the truth and nothing but the truth .backed up by evidence..these two bumblers harp relentlessly using tactics befitting a child throwing a tantrum.. let's NEVER forget the Palestinian prisoners being held in Israeli prisons in detention without a trial some as young as 12yrs old. Genocide is happening right this second in Gaza and that's a fact!!! Netanyahu wants to occupy the Gaza and that's a fact..this has nothing to do with the hostages or Hamas... bombing so indiscreetly, who says they haven't bombed the hostages???
Yea not so much. You clearly hold one position. How about you restate Finkelstein best point in the comments? Just want to see if you can actually restate his argument.
Eli Lake reminds me of a pampered undergraduate who was the star pupil in his high school and doesn't like being challenged by smarter people at college. We live in a culture, fuelled by the media, which encourages people to be hysterical and emotive. We need more people like Finkelstein to teach us to argue calmly.
Honestly, props to the moderator. Despite getting absolutely exposed as a biased, uneducated propagandist for 2.5 hours, he still posted the video. If i ever got publically embarassed like that, there's no way I'd post it.
Lmao these dudes had to have a humiliation kink to go through with this. There was not a single moment in the entire lecture Norm gave them where they weren't being utterly outclassed and embarrassed. Like watching a highschooler try to guard Shaquille O'Neal in the paint.
I thought the moderator was fair and asked fair questions. If I wanted to hear Finkelstein monologue without being challenged, I'd listen to a monologue, this however was a discussion, and the clarifying questions were mostly good ones. The "opponent" I wasn't too impressed with, but I thought the guy in the moderator chair did a fairly good job, regardless of his own personal position (which he didn't conceal, but didn't press either). And Norm had ample time to make his case, and, let's be frank, he does often answer in very roundabout and indirect ways. I'd watch another video with them where they get into details for sure
Eli made a complete mockery of himself. This podcast does nothing but prove the importance of education and articulating your thoughts with care. Norman once again showed out and did so with grace and empathy for his co-hosts who were clearly nowhere near his level intellectually. He's a real man of virtue and a positive force in this world. Protect Dr. Finkelstein at all costs!
Norman is a sophist and a liar! He is the reason why there is a huge increase in Anti-semitism on American campuses and the streets of America. Finkelrat is not is a Intellectual. He regularly engages in intellectual masturbation.
This Eli thing that could be referred to as a human on a cellular level is as disgusting in his rhetoric as in his appearance. He was inarticulate in his poorly understood knowledge of the entire situation and clearly biased due to his lack of evidence when bleating his IDF and Zionist propaganda in comparison to the calm, quick-witted fact-based (destructive - let's be honest, he completely destroyed these insignificant excuses for humans) responses from the great Dr. Finkelstein. Another win for the fair and the just.
@@mardeni958not sure how presenting RUclips videos and making emotional talking points constitutes a victory in a debate setting but yea sure I'll let you have that one buddy 🫡
@@mardeni958 You're joking that you actually thought he won right? lol Have you read EVERY other comment on this video? Eli wasn't even IN the debate. It was a one-sided, landslide, fact-based, history lesson and schooling in an aggressive 3-on-1 from Dr. Finklestein. He barely broke a sweat and answered every question factually and calmly, unlike the child-like Eli and whoever the other two unknowns are. Please tell me you were joking?
Eli started the debate by calling Finklestein "utterly demented". That is a cringeworthy instant loss. Instant fail. This is what people do when they have nothing left in the factual tank, no juice. If it hadn't been Finkelstien, Eli would have also called him "anti-semitic". It speaks volumes...and its laughable. Instant checkmate...wow.
@@knowledgebelaraby Because Palestinians didn't commit October 7 until a few weeks ago, and there was no reason to excuse unnecessary slaughter of innocent people until now. Enter Norm Finkelstein.
@@sandyunderpants4376 ever heard of intifada??? the Palestinians fight back whatever they can. today we have social media, not one side argument from israel hasbara
Finklestein is like many others. He appears impressive when you first discover him, but keep listening, and you'll soon discover he's a biased hack. He can only see things from one perspective and its not the perspective I share.
Hence, it's not 2 v 1. The Eli character was more like a clown, hence maybe why the host had to step in a few times to bring some rationalism to that side of the debate (as he certainly seems to lean towards Israel). It's 1v1. Just 1 equals one person, the other by an idiotic, partisan parrot and a barely informed guy (with all the power as the host).
Finkelstein doesn't give a damn about a Free Palestine, hence his grotesque dishonesty and false equivocation. He wants the destruction of Israel, and he'd sacrifice every last Palestinian to achieve that goal. If Israel disappeared tomorrow, he'd no longer pretend to care about Palestinians.
I’m an Arabic language scholar. The speech that Eli and the host said proved that the speaker (minut 46:30) was admitting the usage of human shield is a big Distortion and lie. The speaker said EXACTLY what Dr. Finkelstein suggested: that the Gazan population are ready to give up their lives for the cause, that they won’t be pushed out of Gaza, they don’t fear death and therefore would surrender. That they welcome death as the Israelis love life. This kind of usage/language is a rhetorical method in the Arabic language especially in war situations where the speaker either wants to uplift the moral and patience of his people and/or being used as a verbal attack to the enemy. That’s obvious to anyone who knows just a little Arabic. No where in that speach (which is probably a sermon after Israeli atrocities) does he admit to Hamas using human shields, he even includes the word “mujahidin” (ie. Hamas) SEVERAL times when he speaks about those who sacrifice their body and blood for the cause. So does that mean that Hamas uses it’s soldiers as human shields as well? What he is clearly saying is that Gazans do not fear death, because they believe that if they die they’ll enter paradise, and that dying defending their land is more noble to them than fleeing. You can agree or disagree with this way of thinking but one thing you can not do is to distort the meaning of what he is saying to mean that he admits that Hamas are using civilians as human shields. That’s just a lie. If they are honest - which I doubt- then they misunderstood because they are ignorant of Arabic language, rhetorical and war-context language used in sermons
Even in the translation, it lists "mujahideen" in the list alongside, and not outside of, women, children and elderly. Even in English, a list of four things in sequence results in all four having the same intended designation or attribution. If he had said, "this is why they have formed..." and didn't list the "mujahideen", then one could try to make the case that the three groups were the shields in front of the "mujahideen", with the "mujahideen" as the sole beneficiaries. In any case, the rest of the shown clip, though out of context, still contextualizes the statement further, even if we didn't see the 4 groups listed together. And even the sentences before that statement highlight that all groups are part of this resistance effort against the occupation.
That man-child with Herzl T-shirt better not go into a debate again. I can read the Hasbara guidebook myself, don't need such an unsophisticated intellectual lightweight throwing them around.
The host said Israel only killed a few thousand people. As of today November 22nd. The figure is approximately 13 thousand dead with thousands more still trapped under tons of concrete. 75% of all dead are women and their children.
I wouldn't call the podcast host an idiot, even though he's a Zionist. He's able to criticize several aspects of Israel's actions and he is also probably the best moderator of debates on this topic that I've seen, and I've watched over a dozen.
@@yrrahyrrahbarely, he was hardly a moderator. It was a 2 v 1 debate and Norman wiped the table with them. They have no facts or any credible evidence other than saying ‘you’re wrong’
Well done... NF is truly the crème de la crème in this realm. Thank you for giving him a platform to help educate those like yourselves. He's a treasure ❤
“Eli, it is very unwise and imprudent to use cheap tactics with me.” Eli got a whooping in the most eloquent way this whole time. Called his whole bluff.
LOL! That's when he said he doesn't use Hamas' statistics, and then when asked what he is citing claims it was the Gaza Health Ministry which is literally run by Hamas. Norm did not acquit his position at all. Everything Eli accused him of was 100% true, and just because Norm filibustered the entire time by bringing up random anecdotes (Biden-style) doesn't mean his arguments were any good. The man is a clown.
@@maelstrom52So only Israel has legitimate statistics? Do you realize how cheap it is to completely discount numbers from one side, and then take the other sides numbers as truth just because you’re on their side?
@@maelstrom52he went on to site like 3 other sources with numbers and then explained the numbers of the sources, or did you stop right after he said "Gaza Health ministry"?
I rewatched this ridiculous video immediately after Dr. Finklestein's appearance on George Galloway's show. It is obvious to me now that this was a setup, that the corpulent, receding hipster and the Zionist podcast host set up a few of the segments to somehow confound Dr. Finklestein and impugn his veracity on all the (indisputable) facts he brought to the show. It's clear to see these guys are Zionist and seem superior to Dr. Finklestein and his empathy for the people of Gaza. It's gross but they lost. I hope people don't tune into this show. It's neither informative or useful. It's definitely not funny. Sad, really.
This man, learnt well his answers, and he tries to convince others that he is the only one who speaks the truth. He talks about restrictions in Gaza, but restrictions we have in every country. We cannot leave the country where we reside to another one without our government‘s permission, and the permission of the country where we pretend to go/settle. Things are not that easy, and believe me, before being granted a visa/permit, the applicant is thoroughly investigated. He talks about the many children killed in Gaza, but why if the IDF used all means of warnings so they could move to a safer place, when they pretended to attack. Why those mothers didn’t move with their children? This is difficult to understand, because it was never heard of in any other war, and they didn’t move to save their children?
@@SaletePires-c9v They didn't "move to save their children" because they're being held hostage in their own country! Yes you can get a visa and come and go with restrictions that you have to get permission for from your own government, the difference here is that Palestinians have to apply to Israel for permission to leave, not their own country. Imagine if you as an American had to apply to Canada for permission to leave your own country. They haven't had an airport since 2001.
@@ccahill2322 I couldn't careless how he looks. As much as I couldn't stand Blake's opinions Finkelstein didn't resort to cheap insults. Class act from a dignified scholar.
Indeed he does. I love that he does not attack the person, but the ideas. His demeanor is of a nobleman. In the face of remarks meant to disparage he stays focused and addresses the substance. Bravo professor Finkelstein.
@Ccahill2322 Good to see you are focusing on the right things. If you watch a debate and you comment on the appearance of one debater, you are a loser.
Sure, he's a liar. I'll give you some testimony from God since Momo of Mecca couldn't describe God's voice. God spoke fifty sentences to me from above over nine years' time span. His first nine sentences to me were 8.4.2015 in the morning. Since then I have told people and timestamped many prescient visions that came true. Go look up the word empiracal. I'll tell you what, I'm not going to tell you God's fifty sentences nor describe His voice. Tell you about all the signs God showed thru me, nah. You know why, I'm sick and tired of Muslims disgracing themselves and people. Muslims love mocking the fifty sentences God spoke to me. Stop mocking God and prostrating to a 7th century warlord who had a heart of evil.
2.20.56. Israel is not attempting to starve the Gazans. Didn't age well. Oh and did the moderator now apologise to Finklestien, now we see Gazan children starving ?
I'm 1hr 5min into this. I've seen Mr. Finkelstein in a number of heated debates and yet this one has honestly left me beyond depressed. Hearing the main host just fully digging in as hard as possible to every source Norman is getting (the last straw for me was the poisoned water) and just literally ignoring the fact that - at this stage of the interview - there's not a single decent source on the Israeli side is just infuriating beyond belief. Its sheer tribalism. They don't WANT the other narrative of Palestinian oppression to enter their heads (espeically the host) so they're literally performing the most insane mental gymanstiscs to avoid it. Imagine asking "who sais the Wells are poisoness?" Jesus christ why the fuck would every human rights organisation lie about this? What's the point? Do we all want to break down Israel that badly and smear it that we'll just lie about every single source and every human rights report? It's just insanity they honestly can't see just how much blood is on israel hands because they go insane if they did. God help us all we'll look back on this one day with such utter contempt and disgust that we'll be ashamed to call ourselves Moral in any way whatsoever
Yeah I do think Israeli's are so brainwashed that if they ever get to know how much destruction their ideology has caused they might not be able to bear it. That's if they are humans because all look like monsters rn.
Your take is right. What you're referring to is burden of proof. When the consensus agrees on a particular notion, idea, or statistic, as most probably true, then the burden of proof lies not in proving the consensus true. It lies in the conflicting arguments discrediting the consensus and proving the contrary. And that's why there is an information war. The more sway you have on the consensus, the more you capitalise on the nationalism and parroting nature of those that subscribe to you. Since its inception, the Israeli regime has gathered the tools and devices necessary to challenge the consensus when it aligns with the truth of its barbaric nature. Hence, history is written by the victors.
Prof. Norman Finkelstein has proven that humanity still exists, it was an honour listening to all the facts that he provided us. I can understand how difficult it must have been for Prof. Norman to educate these fools who see everything but pretend to see not and to hear everything but pretend to hear not.
Well, I don’t understand and I agree with him on a lot, but he’s idea that well Hamas or freedom fighters when they jump the fence and rape and killed civilians and so that’s fair game by that standard anybody that claims their oppressed can rape and kill in murder civilians, so there goes the law of armed conflict. That’s what I don’t understand why people like support Finkelstein. I understand what he’s coming from, I agree with him about Palestine but I don’t agree that it is fair game to kill and bomb and rape, women, children, and civilians
@@StrongbyLee Because they were bullshit questions; a fair judge would have sustained objections to them in a courtroom on the basis of being argumentative, prejudicial, not probative of anything relevant to the present Lidician operation by the IDF.
Lake: You're being selective in your sources Finkelstein: Here's a list of reputable human rights groups I'm using as sources. Tell me which reputable human rights groups I must be omitting if I'm being "selective" Lake: [Starts talking about something else]
"Hamas is a military dictatorship " COMPLETELY UNDENIABLE FACT. frankenstien response "the people were never given a chance" Yeah you psycopath hamas killed everyone else. Where's his " source" for that utter deranged BS.
@@nightbroker At this point, you just straight up turned psychotic. This is the same bumblefucked mentality of a flat-eather who similarly labels all space agencies "delusional" for saying the Earth is a globe. But in all fairness though, you are correct in your assessment of your answer as "easy," because the truth is too _inconvenient_ for you to handle.
This debate wasn’t to change the mind of the moderator or the guest; it was to show us, the audience, the difference between narratives that are woven from supremacy and emotional arguments vs a narrative that comes from facts, information and unemotional morality.
Man, I wish that was the case. It was evident that both the host and Eli believed the arguments they put forth. The host made his beliefs known both in the questions he posed and the way he posed them. However, although that may not have been their motive, the real message is just as you claim: that the overwhelming majority of citizens make determinations based on emotion, racism, and propanda-based belief systems rather than facts or logic.
Yes, Norman made clear, he was speaking to the listening audience. I liked that he maintained the highst of goals throughout. They couldn't drag him down. The chick: I never heard of mowing the lawn in Gaza, and bc of that I don't believe it was said. Does she think Norman made it up?
This is a good take - that there’s a silver lining: Despite the gaping hole of disagreement between the pro Israel supporters and Norman, a chasm not shrinking probably ever, the conversation is valuable to the reasonable folks of all walks of life who exist in that middle ground. And for that we should be thankful to the not-norm participants/host. It would be better if they respectfully disagreed and found the value & sacrifice in Finkelstein’s dedication to a suffering group of fellow humans. (Not that I didn’t cry for the Israeli victims of the massacre. I did cry. Devastating. But the response has been beyond comprehension.)
Ugh.... People taking middle ground is a coward, IMO. Why it's so hard to see that one is the occupied and another is the occupier. I am totally on the side of the occupied because my country have centuries of history being occupied and it's just terrible, the occupier always take they never give something back, they do feed us but only enough to keep us alive, nobody have full belly it's a luxury.
Can anyone who opposes Hamas explain to me? What do you find strange when you say we should destroy HAMAS for killing 1400 ppl . ok, fine, but we also should destroy Israeli governors for their uncountable crimes and massacres . why does it sound like something crazy to say ???,?????¿ I want to know the logic
@@hb98678 not only that he has one schtick which is to go on TV and cheerlead for war with Iran and watching him clumsily try and shoehorn that in was as or more painful to watch than his ad hominems and well poisoning
He just jumped to a bunch of videos him and the host had set up in advance! He literally never answered it, but kept using it to accuse finkelstein on every point he made from then on, it became his only counter argument! The worst was when finkelstein questioned Israel statistics and the host (the supposed neutral arbiter of the debate) said ‘because it’s an open society’ like that is even remotely true or would prove anything even if it was!!
Eli’s intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking. Resorting to cheap and morally impoverished tactics only elevates Finkelstein to even higher levels and exposes himself as a liar with zero integrity.
Can’t respect Dr. Finklestein more. People like him make the world livable. What an exemplary humanitarian, who has had to suffer so much to tell the truth.
How hard is to debate uneducated person with preconceived notions like these two, they don't know that they don't know, May God reward you Norman Finkelstein for your hard work to do this
Well done Norman, outnumbered, interrupted and mocked but you still managed to cut through. I hope this guy is better at comedy than he is at hosting...
I am very much on the side Norman resides on, but I thought the host did genuinely try to be fair. He clearly was on Israel's side to begin with, as were the others in the room, so in light of the factors against fairness, he did alright. I was thinking kudos to him for having this convo. Eli was the one who seemed the odd one out - totally unhinged.
@@jeffjackson5277 Agreed, it was a good talk with respect presented on all sides, Eli the least but again it's an emotionally charged conversation to have.
It was painful at times to listen to this, but Norman was so patient with these two guys that are clearly completely out of their league in terms of research and intellect. The difference between internet personalities and a true scholar couldn't have been more evident. Thank you Norman.
Bullseye. Internet personalities vs true scholar. Eli actually calls Finkelstein historically ignorant and a false friend to the Palestinians. He is not a serious fellow. He is not operating in good faith. That's as charitable as I can.
the two irrational "make it quick..." tards act like many Israelis, immature and derp like it's not even comical. It's unreal.... I almost want to feel sorry for them. Unfortunately, my country the US and the UK did this. We all helped created these gullible goons.
I agree with you it was so painful to watch when one side was trying to base off of facts and one was combative and used cheap tactics like discrediting the other side's sources without any reasonable grounds. Eli's arguments were basically, let people watch, I don't have to say, it is so obvious what I stand is the truth. So obnoxious and uneducated.
As an Arabic person, I would like to express my appreciation for Professor Norman Finkelstein. You did what the other people are afraid to do, basically going after historical facts, statistical information, and just being honest with what is really around. This indicates the maturity of the research methodology followed by the professor in searching for the truth. With all respect for you.
The term "mowing the grass" has been used by Bibi Netanyahu and dozens of other right wing politicians including Benny Gantz . I am surprised that the youg lady who is Jewish has not heard of it. Selective reading perhaps.
@johnnysoccer1983 I'm from New Zealand and feel the same way. Norman and other Jewish voices have been some of the best perspectives to listen to in this whole thing
May god bless him with full heath and long life, he is a symbol of bravery and truth... As an Arab and Muslim, may we see more people who follow the same principals...
Norman Finklestein is an amazingly courageous academic and humanist. He deals with facts. He has been studying and researching the situation in the apartheid state of Israel. Amnesty International has joined other leading human rights groups in stating that Israel’s “system of oppression and domination” over the Palestinians amounts to the international definition of apartheid.
Nah as another victim of genocide, Israel has hone too far. I know what kind of father's you have. They taught you not to feel remorse for the death of Palestinian children. You wouldn't dare disregard the value of human life for Jewish oppressors so out of four fear when the rage of your humiliation of your oppression you kick the man shorter than you as your oppressor calls you a good boy. Tragic honestly
@@mardeni958Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism. This is about Colonization, ethnic cleansing, and genocide. @ikkuwalo1225 is on the righteous side of history.
Norman Finklestein - a man of conscience, honor, and truth. It’s always a pleasure watching him educate (even in vain) the brainwashed bigots and the willfully blind.
Great talk and hats of to Norman Finkelstein, a brilliant speaker who conveys his arguments calm, factual and with a great deal of reflection. His ability to feel, understand and acknowledge the oppression of the Palestinians shows a high ethical and moral compass
Okay so 2 months later.. Seems like Finkelstein was right about everything, including Sinai. Shocker. We all await Mr Lakes redaction and course correction with bated breath 🙄
Finkelstein is a literal legend, we must protect this man at all costs. Such class even when being insulted, even apologized for raising his voice by like 2%
Who else got shivers when Norman Finkelstein said "Hamas took 290 hostages, guess what Israel has taken 2 million 3 hundred Palestinian hostages". What a brave, moral man Norman is!
It's just like anti-zionists to take things that happened to Jews and use them for themselves. Disgusting, "Actually there is a holocaust happening to Palestinians right now blah blah blah." Except their population keeps growing whereas Jews just got back to their pre-holocaust numbers. How is that the same thing?
They could leave whenever they wanted if Hamas let them before the war. There are influnecers who were at the world cup in qatar and on vacation. This dude has a pathological problem.
@@jayjacob6855Palestinians with dual citizenship you goober. If you think Palestinians without foreign passports can leave you are an idiot. I mean the propagandized shill you enjoyed listening to didn't even dispute the point because it is that obviously true that Palestinians aren't allowed to leave. When your basic little mind starts adding its own justifications on top of the propaganda you deepth0at you are in trouble.
why tf would they want to leave a home that's been there for 10 generations just for some born again Jew that's gonna get skin cancer pretending he is "native"@@jayjacob6855
@@HM-rz8nvhahaha they got so destroyed it wasn’t even a competition xD It’s so funny that they were so speechless that they started to attack him as a person rather then rebuttal his argument which is a cheap tactic and it still failed xD
Normal Finkelstein is an elderly man, and I am full of admire how he was able to debate those trolls for more than 2 hours. Mr Finkelstein I admire your composure, calmness and wisdom.
Idk if they’re trolls, they seem like they’re approaching the discussion in good faith; they’re just struggling with the emotional reality of what Finkelstein is saying.
Absolutely a real honest and good man. Those lot are the usual privileges ignorant supporters of Israel, they likely have Isralie passports themselves. Does anyone know their citizenship status?
I am highly disgusted to realize that we have people in the west such as this show's host (Noam?) and Eli who support the genocide that Israel is committing in Gaza. I am beyond embarrassed to say that I once represented the same group as these disgusting human beings. How can you ever justify civilian casualties? What kind of insane moral compass do you have to support such criminal acts? Do these people not realize that their support of Israel enables the state of Israel to further murder women and children in Gaza? I am extremely disappointed with the state of west as of today where we are breathing in the same air space as these murder supporting lunatics. Ah words can't describe my disgust with these crime enablers.
@@ruffryder13 When you can see someone clearly projecting it looks like they're aware of a problem they have and are deliberately accusing others as a diatraction tactic. This ignores that its a subconscious process. Projecting doesn't subjectively feel like making something up. It feels like noticing something. Please reflect on that.
Two groups in Europe professed to be the "super race" or "the chosen people " two groups herded their victims in to large ghettos , and two groups reacted savagely to the other for having the temerity to rise up against its jailers. Warshaw and Gaza are the clues.
@@EverGreenElephant Stepping back from the conversation at hand, believing this is a good way to get yourself swindled by fools. Sharing information, thorough information, takes time.
He's incredible. Thank God there is someone as educated as him speaking with so much passion. I've been horrified to learn about what's been going on in Gaza for so many years. I have been ignorant. Thank god there are people like Norman Finklestein who have devoted so much to help these poor people.
This was so frustrating to watch. The host was mostly fine and even asked good questions. Without a doubt he had his own bias. But Eli came not to discuss but to debate and prove Dr. Finkelstein wrong. Having watched Dr. Finkelstein’s lectures and other interviews, he’s a very slow methodical speaker and that’s how he crafts his arguments. But it seemed at every corner they would interrupt him and say “Aha! See you’re a hypocrite!” and he was clearly still express his thoughts. There was no serious intent to learn, but only to disavow. Dr. Finkelstein has spent over 40 years studying the Palestinian situation and has arrived at his points after decades of research. It’s fine to disagree with him but it’s insulting to question every factual point he brings up and discredit it. It blows my mind that he would discredit Amnesty International without any reason other than the fact that it runs counter to how he “feels” about Gaza and Palestine. In fact, starting at 55:40, Eli basically admits that he distrusts the death toll simply because he feels like it’s not trustworthy. There’s nothing scholarly about what Eli is saying, he’s parroting the Western talking points that we, including myself, have grown up with. And sorry, I have to mention this, but like him or not, he is a PhD and has earned the title “Doctor”. I don’t think Dr. Finkelstein doesn’t care much but it bothered me that he was not given the proper distinction any time Eli referred to him. It’s just bad manners disguised as righteousness.
Norman is a beacon of light that illuminates the darkness of this world His sheer determination, integrity and struggle to remain objective, factual and morally upright is nothing short of a spectacle to watch Norman, I adore your steadfastness, your years of commitment to extreme hard work, your meticulousness in analysing the facts and presenting them in a lucid (I’m using your vocabulary now) and articulate fashion You dismantled a group of people with opposing views with clear cut facts and objective data. You dealt with a hostile speaker who couldn’t contain his emotion and resorted to cheap attacks and ridiculous conclusions, by remaining upright and avoiding stooping to his level Like you said, you didnt engage or give credence to his cheap tactics because it is beneath you You are honestly one of my favourite personalities to ever walk this earth I wish to meet you one day I’m in awe of you Please keep up the good work and thank you from The bottom of my heart for revealing the truth Your parents would be proud of you, they raised you so well With love, Chams
Mr. Finkelstein, you don't only teach scholar thinking and historical fact checking and how to stay deeply connected to one's humanity and empathy even when that means you stand against the majority of your own , but you also teach how to keep prudent and composed when you are arguing with people who can't bother but to read their own headlines and know nothing else on the ground. I applaud you for making points only with scholar work and not attacking anyone's person . You are an absolute hero.
This Finkelstein guy is a light from Heaven. I think God creates such phenomenal individuals for the guidance of mankind. And his brilliance is something to behold. In the video, he is like a mighty lion surrounded by little barking dogs, and he is just pacing up and down, giving them occasional smackdown, but mostly giving them lessons in the knowledge of hunting.
Eli Lake put himself in an absolutely awful and hopeless position of debating the Israel-Gaza issue with an actual professor and expert on the subject in Norman Finkelstein while also defending genocide by the Israeli military.
I feel sorry for anyone tasked with going up against the righteous Norman Finkelstein. The moral compass of a whole being cannot be swayed with any earthly delights. That scheming snake-tongued Dershowitz was frazzled during his debate with Finkelstein on Democracy Now. He was so embarrassed by his absolute failure to prove his side he got Norman fired although he was a tenured professor. Norman has paid for his moral compass but will always be remembered as true north. ✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼🇵🇸
Except that he does throughout this debate, just any intellectual ought to do, because facts can say whatever you want them to say without the appropriate context and associated facts. let alone whether the fact is even true. Facts evolve as we learn more and gain better understanding.
norman is a gem. throughout he is SO patient, calm and sticks to facts. Eli just makes ridiculous personal attacks and offers nothing of substance. major props to norman and so much respect for him.
The guy saying "are palestinians trying to get attention by getting killed by IDF bullets?" was one of the most cruel arguments ever made. I was speechless
If someone sees this in years when I will be no more .. I’m nearing 50… pls don’t let the general media make Norman like they did to me with Malcom x.. I love this man and his heart and I adore his brain and integrity .. may God bless him for being a voice for the oppressed.. aameeen
Thank you. . Interesting discussion, i found Norman Finklesteins argument by far the most compelling of all . Rational, intelligent, moral, and factual, i applaud Mr Finklestein for standing up for humanity and for truth 👏
The way they are speaking to him and he refuses their childish prompts to say hamas are human animals. The children's video is pretty nuts. It reminds me of people in my childhood in ireland shouting nastiness towards each other. They have no interest in knowing anything new. I dont find them to have a genuine interest in the subject at all. They're flipping from video to quote to baiting him to say they are animals. Like stick to the bloody facts children. I am amazed by his patience.
He knows how many hours it would take to impart the information needed to be thorough and detailed in his answers. He could deliver the truth. We can't handle the truth.@@wg3951
The presenter started trying to look impartial, but ended up realising that Eli Lake was on the ropes and looked panicky as he repeatedly waded in on his side😂
It's really rare to see people as intelligent, courageous, non apologetic and truthful as Norman Finkelstein ! It's really surreal ! May Allah increase him in his wisdom! And give him long life.
I couldn't agree more. Very well said. You know, they pay people like this spacejunk troll to pollute social media. A lot of work goes into casting doubt in the minds of truth seekers.
"Hamas is a military dictatorship " COMPLETELY UNDENIABLE FACT. frankenstien response "the people were never given a chance" Yeah you psycopath hamas killed everyone else.
Norman Finkelstein you are a shining example of the decay and rot festering in the academic mind of America. Your fight FOR a totalitarian theocratic government that celebrates the killing of Innocents has made the world worse off.
Hey Noam, I think it’s time you call Dr Finkelstein and apologize to him and admit that he was right. Israel has now without a shadow is now starving Gaza to death.
I hope Eli Lake, when he reviews this podcast, gets to read in the thousands of comments the unanimous and unrelieved derision and contempt that his performance in the debate so richly warrented. It is clear that Eli Lake will now live in opprobrium as the know-nothing apologist for the endless crimes of the State of Israel who was fool enough to think going into the debate that he was somehow a match for the towering intellect and meticulous scholarship of Professor Norman Finkelstein. Lake is likely to become the internet's new Norm Coleman after the hapless senator and his Senate committee were schooled on the Iraq war by George Galloway.
you are wrong, I am sad to say. He is well received in many places and on many shows because sadly, there is a market for his b-llshit and his nonsense
One thing you forget. Zionists think anyone no matter with facts or not are beneath them and their supremacy. This is what people seem to not understand. You cant debate with these people. Zionist think they are chosen people. There for its like u sitting there debating with a dog. I know its harsh what im saying but its absolutely true.
As an Arabic speaker, what professor Finkelstein said that it means "we are willing to defend our cause with our lives" is 100% accurate Talking about human shield to protect Hamas here is utter nonsense
Moreover, it is provably false. Amensty International investigated allegations of the use of human shields in it's 2009 report following Israel's 'Operation' Cast Lead - titled "22 Days of Death and Destruction". From page 4 of the introduction: "However, contrary to repeated allegations by Israeli officials of the use of “human shields”, Amnesty International found no evidence that Hamas or other Palestinian fighters directed the movement of civilians to shield military objectives from attacks. It found no evidence that Hamas or other armed groups forced residents to stay in or around buildings used by fighters, nor that fighters prevented residents from leaving buildings or areas which had been commandeered by militants. " However, that is not the full story - there are two 'sides' in this conflict.... The host interupted Norman before he could explain that there is EXTENSIVE evidence of Israeli forces used human shields in 'operations'. This is an excerpt from Page 48. "During Operation “Cast Lead” Israeli forces repeatedly took over Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they used the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position - effectively using the families, both adults and children, as “human shields” and putting them at risk. While soldiers wore protective body armour and helmets and shielded themselves behind sandbags as they fired from the houses, the Palestinian inhabitants of the houses had no such protection." And another from Page 49 "According to testimonies, in several cases Israeli forces also forced unarmed Palestinian civilian males (mostly adults but in two cases also children) to serve as “human shields”, including making them walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives. These practices are not new. Numerous such cases have been documented in recent years and the Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that such practices contradict international law and prohibited them in October 2005"
@@lestersmiley1781 Because not every idea can be easily translated into every langauge... Have you never heard of the phrase... 'Lost In Translation'???
@@lestersmiley1781 It's like when an English speaker says "I'll sleep on it" meaning he will think about it, but then someone learning English tells you, oh he said he needs to write what you said on a paper and then put it under his pillow and sleep on it, it's a superstition English men believe in
The general facts are pretty cut and dried, and pro-Israel can only quarrel infinitely about points of detail. 1. A land doesn't belong to you because you're ancestors were there 3000 years ago. 2. Palestine was occupied by Ottoman then British colonizers. 3. The British colonizers decided to accept the request of Zionists and offer part of that Land for a Jewish homeland. As a colonizer that offer is not legitimate as it steals the lands of the local population. 4. The Palestinians are not responsible for the acts of Egypts and others nations who decided to attack Israel. 5. Since then, Israel's disregard for international law, UN resolution, and human rights is well documented, to the point of leftist israeli NGOs and activists fighting against its own government and for justice for the Palestinians. 6. It is not the fault of the Palestinians that some of their leaders were bad actors. You cannot use that as an argument to justify the indefinite oppression and dehumanization of a people. 7. Prolonged oppression, humiliations and dehumanization produces terrorism. 80% of the children in Gaza suffer from depression. Imagine that, not as a cold dehumanized statistic, but as a daily reality for millions of people, just suffering, humiliations by settlers and soldiers in the west bank, day after day with no end in sight. The prospect of never being able to leave The city-prison of Gaza in all your life. The oppressor is responsible for the terrorism it produced. You cannot oppress people and then complain about how they are fighting back in an unjust manner. 8. Even when using peaceful manners of resistance, palestinians are demonized. Whether it was in the Great March of return or the strategy of boycott which is then denounced as antisemitic, no strategy of resistance is tolerated, as if these people who are oppressed for 75 years should just accept the boot on their neck forever. Which people in the western world would accept that? 9. People point to the antisemitism of palestinians and there is no doubt it is prevalent. What about the racism and islamophobia of israelis? Their current government is totally right wing. Incredibly racist statements from politicians are easy to find. Settlers mocking the palestinians in the most disgusting ways are easy to find. What is their excuse, when they don't live under in an impoverished state under oppression and propaganda from their leaders, but in an open democratic society that has access to all the beauty of civilized culture, what is their excuse? 10. How do you make peace with a country that continues to accept immigration from all parts of the world and builds settlements in Palestinian territory? What kind of "peace process" is that? It is a charade, a strategy to induce pacification from palestiniens fighting for their liberation, while prolonging indefinitely discussions where one side has no leverage to negotiate fair terms, while gaining more and more territory. Ultimately the goal is not 2 States, but one failed State that serves as a reserve stock for cheap labor in the only State that has a functional economy and military. 11. If you think that the Jewish people deserve have the right to a Jewish State where they can live in security, fine by me. Why install it in the middle of hostile nations? The US is so engaged in the right of Israel, why not offer some of its Land then? After all, its only one of the largest countries in the world. Surely the people of Texas would allow to be displaced for some part of the State to become an independent nation. Obviously I'm being facetious but you see here that the support for Israel is a geopolitical issue more than out of care for the Israeli people. Anyway, considering the extreme radicalization of people on that issue, and the deep seated nationalism and religious beliefs of people, we are not solving this issue soon. All nation states and borders should be abolished, for nationalism is an absurd destructive ideology, and borders are arbitrary human constructs that divide us for the interests of the ruling class of each Land.
@@hamzaartofwar3 if Finkelstein had indicated that he was attempting to translate the clip, that analogy would apply. that you would say that means you have no specialized insight into this as an arabic speaker, because if you did, you would have shared it. Instead, you say that a man who clearly declares he is not translating and does NOT know the language is making a common mistake of language learners in general.
lol what arguments! The defense mechanism of any idiot with no susbtance is trying to offend the person they arguing with which is exactly what Eli was trying to do, but Norman is a legend, he never once gave him the time of the day. It was amazing to watch. I wish I can argue this way with idiots and never stoop to their level, but I would have lost my cool.
Eli is a gay, anti-muzzy/Arab atheist who happens to have J heritage, but advocates for j supremacy. I wouldn’t waste my hearing senses on what that overweight slob says. FYI notice the abbreviations I had to make because of the false notion of free speech on this platform. Very one sided.
Its not easy to go against your own people..but being just means going against anyone..be it yourself, your family, the rich or the poor. Prof. Norman Finkelstein is truly one of a kind...amazing and just human being.
Most hasidic jews are anti zionist and view i quote ; the present state of Israel as a blasphemous human attempt to usurp God’s role, and many actively work to dismantle the secular State of Israel.. I think we need to hear more from the ultra orthodox community.
It would be hard. There are a decent amount of Jewish people in America who agree with him and even some in Israel, so he has common ground with part of his community.
Dr. Finklestein is not a Zionist. The Israeli's are Zionists. Zionists are fascists. Many Jews are not fascists or zionists. A lot of those folk are in the streets now to try and stop the bloodletting in Gaza. Any decent human being would do the same thing. The hairless wonder and his near receding sidekick are experiencing cognitive dissonance because they are protecting Zionists because (incorrectly), they think Jews are cool with it. They are obviously cool with Zionism and thought they could pummel Dr. Finklestein on their insignificant little podcat.
Keep in mind Finkelstein is a life long communist in America so he's used to people not agreeing with him and hating his views. Personally I respect him all the more for it
Deep respect to Mr Finkelstein. His wealth of study and focus on this issue for decades is so vital now. He also has enough wisdom and integrity to allow this level of childlike ignorance and verbal attack to roll right over him and justly so. I salute you Norman, for being present through this in the way you did. Most switched on and awake folk would have walked out.
really shocked me when they tried to argue that 4000 children dead was somehow not that big of an amount because of the population density. That it somehow proves that the IDF isn't indiscriminately bombing. I would have lost my cool at that horrific statement.
LMAO it’s also like, why is it so densely populated?!?! Hmmmmmm it’s almost like someone forced all these people into a tiny speck of land and put a fence around the place 😂
For the record from the river to the see is about a multiracial ethnic and religious country. The idea there is one population that has a monopoly on genocide is annoying- .Cambodia, Sudan, Darfur, Bosnia, Rwanda, East Timor, Armenians, Native American populations- so many more. Israel is in power in this situation, that needs to be an underlying fundamental everyone can accept.
Prof Finkelestejn wiped the floor with Eli & Co. His intellect is unparalleled, he has devoted his life to this topic. I could listen to him all day, calm , concise & informative
The general facts are pretty cut and dried, and pro-Israel can only quarrel infinitely about points of detail. 1. A land doesn't belong to you because you're ancestors were there 3000 years ago. 2. Palestine was occupied by Ottoman then British colonizers. 3. The British colonizers decided to accept the request of Zionists and offer part of that Land for a Jewish homeland. As a colonizer that offer is not legitimate as it steals the lands of the local population. 4. The Palestinians are not responsible for the acts of Egypts and others nations who decided to attack Israel. 5. Since then, Israel's disregard for international law, UN resolution, and human rights is well documented, to the point of leftist israeli NGOs and activists fighting against its own government and for justice for the Palestinians. 6. It is not the fault of the Palestinians that some of their leaders were bad actors. You cannot use that as an argument to justify the indefinite oppression and dehumanization of a people. 7. Prolonged oppression, humiliations and dehumanization produces terrorism. 80% of the children in Gaza suffer from depression. Imagine that, not as a cold dehumanized statistic, but as a daily reality for millions of people, just suffering, humiliations by settlers and soldiers in the west bank, day after day with no end in sight. The prospect of never being able to leave The city-prison of Gaza in all your life. The oppressor is responsible for the terrorism it produced. You cannot oppress people and then complain about how they are fighting back in an unjust manner. 8. Even when using peaceful manners of resistance, palestinians are demonized. Whether it was in the Great March of return or the strategy of boycott which is then denounced as antisemitic, no strategy of resistance is tolerated, as if these people who are oppressed for 75 years should just accept the boot on their neck forever. Which people in the western world would accept that? 9. People point to the antisemitism of palestinians and there is no doubt it is prevalent. What about the racism and islamophobia of israelis? Their current government is totally right wing. Incredibly racist statements from politicians are easy to find. Settlers mocking the palestinians in the most disgusting ways are easy to find. What is their excuse, when they don't live under in an impoverished state under oppression and propaganda from their leaders, but in an open democratic society that has access to all the beauty of civilized culture, what is their excuse? 10. How do you make peace with a country that continues to accept immigration from all parts of the world and builds settlements in Palestinian territory? What kind of "peace process" is that? It is a charade, a strategy to induce pacification from palestiniens fighting for their liberation, while prolonging indefinitely discussions where one side has no leverage to negotiate fair terms, while gaining more and more territory. Ultimately the goal is not 2 States, but one failed State that serves as a reserve stock for cheap labor in the only State that has a functional economy and military. 11. If you think that the Jewish people deserve have the right to a Jewish State where they can live in security, fine by me. Why install it in the middle of hostile nations? The US is so engaged in the right of Israel, why not offer some of its Land then? After all, its only one of the largest countries in the world. Surely the people of Texas would allow to be displaced for some part of the State to become an independent nation. Obviously I'm being facetious but you see here that the support for Israel is a geopolitical issue more than out of care for the Israeli people. Anyway, considering the extreme radicalization of people on that issue, and the deep seated nationalism and religious beliefs of people, we are not solving this issue soon. All nation states and borders should be abolished, for nationalism is an absurd destructive ideology, and borders are arbitrary human constructs that divide us for the interests of the ruling class of each Land.
My absolute favorite thing about free speech, is we now know where the lines are drawn. Both are emotionally invested, One side is stoic, informed and calculated as as the other side is trying to understand. Kudos to everyone that has respect for the other ones across the table. And for those who have ad hominem in them attacks, I'll just say thank God for free speech.
@TucoRope2Tight Nice speech but indigenous rights have no expiration date. Jews have been living in Eretz Yisrael for the past 3,000 years uninterrupted. According to international law, it is illegal to acquire land as a result of a war. According to your logic, Russia’s annexation of Crimea is acceptable. China’s expansionist activity in the China Sea is acceptable. Can a Texas rancher take land from Mexico at the point of a gun? No, wrong. That's an inaccurate and incomplete statement of that point of law. Actually, there is nothing illegal about retaining territory captured in a defensive war pending a final peace treaty in which final borders can be negotiated. Tell me even ONE instance where the victor in any war anywhere simply handed back territory to a losing aggressor, WITHOUT a peace treaty, to enable the aggressor to attempt a "do-over" of their failed attack, with no permanent losses (other than all those killed and wounded in the war, of course) so the aggressor could simply try to do it again? That would only ENCOURAGE MORE AGGRESSION, not deter it. According to international law, it is illegal to acquire land as a result of an AGGRESSIVE war. The aggressor is not allowed to keep the fruits of his illegal aggression. That is not a stand-alone fact, but a corollary and consequence of the fact that aggressive war, itself, is illegal No, because that was naked aggression against an independent country that was minding its own business. Ukraine did not attack Russia; it was the other way around. Russia’s pretext, that they were only “defending” the self-determination rights of ethnic Russians who lived there and who invited them in, was a transparent pretext. Now you're comparing apples and oranges. I'm not in favor of such expansion, but, acquiring new land territory (and its associated territorial waters) that DID NOT EXIST before, by building artificial islands in what had previously been international waters, is a completely different issue than the question of making an aggressive war of conquest against another sovereign nation. The grounds for opposing China's expansion there rest upon completely different principles of international law that would be a mere distraction, a red herring, to throw into this discussion. So, let's not go there. No, of course not. That would be connquest by naked aggression. Illegal. But, when the Yankee "Texicans" moved into the Texas territory of Mexico back in the early 19th century, with the permission and encouragement of the Mexican government, and then, chafing under the authoritarian dictatorship of Santa Ana, sought independence for themselves, THAT was not a war of aggression; they were defending their right to live in the place where they were legally present, and to govern themselves. Let me add that it was NOT ILLEGAL for Santa Ana and the Mexican army to OPPOSE that independence move, either -- BOTH sides had a legal right to defend their conflicting rights. The Palestinians do not have to make war, though, to do the same thing, govern themselves; Israel is EAGER to make peace and let the Palestinians do that. The Palestinians are the ones who have rejected land-for-peace offers time and again, since their actual goal is the COMPLETE destruction of Israel, and its replacement with an Arab Palestinian state. THAT is illegal aggression. Just as it would have been illegal aggression for the Texicans under Sam Houston to try to conquer ALL of Mexico, not just fight to preserve their independence in the portion of the land where they actually lived. As an aside, one could argue it was also an illegal act of aggressive war (by modern standards, but not back then, since no such law yet existed on the books) for the U.S. to aggressively invade Mexico a few years after that, and capture most of what became the Southwest U.S. even though the U.S. did so on a pretext of defending against Mexican raids into U.S. territory. The Nazis disingenuously claimed the Poles were violating German sovereignty, too, in 1939, before launching the blitzkrieg that conquered Poland. We look to the realities, and the intent of the parties, not to the flimsy rationale an aggressor presents to the world to save face. As noted above regarding Russian conquest of the Crimea, that is just a fig leaf. No. That's naked aggression. And that’s why the Arabs’ failure to AGREE to the UN-suggedsgted partition plan in 1947, and their decision to refrain from declaring an independent Palestinian Arab State at the same time Israel declared its independence after the British withdrawal, but to “roll the dice” and gamble on the success of an aggressive war of conquest where they sought to kill all the Jews and TAKE all of Cis-Jordanian Palestine (the Mandate territory) by naked conquest, was the FATAL original sin of the Palestinian national movement. The Palestinian national movement has no RIGHT to anything whatsoever, after that point. But, in the interest of peace, Israel is still willing to give up land to allow creation of a Palestinian Arab state, alongside the Palestinian Jewish state - which changed its name to Israel, when it declared independence in 1948 . First, what do you mean by "the" land? The West Bank? All of it? Most of it? Is there no room, in your mind, for adjustments to create "secure and defensible boundaries" as UNSCR 242 requires? Do you expect Israel to simply hand it over, without a peace agreement being negotiated, as UNSCR 242 requires? Or by "the land" do you mean ALL of the geographic region known as "Palestine," the former Mandate territory -- ALL the land "from the river to the sea"? In other words, are you denying Israel's legitimacy, its very right to exist in ANY boundaries? Of course you know Israel cannot agree to THAT, and has a right, under international law, to defend itself against aggressive war by parties seeking its destruction. And, "RETURNED?" Sorry, one cannot "return" something to somebody who never had legal sovereign title to it in the first place. That territory (assuming you are talking about the "West Bank") was previously held by Jordan, after Jordan had illegally and aggressively conquered it from Israel in 1948, and then maintained its illegal occupation for 19 years. Jordan disclaimed any rights to that land in 1989, before it made peace with Israel in 1994. So we are not talking about giving anything "back," we are talking about a NEW entity that wants to come into existence -- a Palestinian State -- for which Israel is willing to GIVE UP land over which Israel, too, has a rightful claim, IF it will be done as part of a full, negotiated final peace agreement. Sure, one can talk about "natural" rights -- that people who ACTUALLY LIVE someplace have the right to live in peace and to govern themselves -- I can agree to that. But that right does not allow the Palestinian Arab national movements to take by conquest any land that the party holding custody of the land at present would gladly cede to them, through negotiation. War is a legitimate option for self-defense only when an actual act of war has already been taken against a country by an aggressor, or when an attack is so imminent that waiting for the first blow to fall would be suicidal.
This man has paid a heavy price personally and professionally in his life. He is intelligent. He is thorough in his work. You have to respect him. He commands it.
@@noors.7048 his family was killed in the holocaust and he has spoken out about human rights abuses for his whole career Palestine/Israel being one of many
@@noors.7048 denied tenure at and was a trailblazer since he was a PhD student at Princeton. Chomsky praised his work as " I warned him, if you follow this, you’re going to get in trouble-because you're going to expose the American intellectual community as a gang of frauds, and they are not going to like it, and they're going to destroy you." just mad respect.
Sucks when people have to face the atrocities they support. Norman is a genuine humanitarian, and I feel for all the suffering he has gone through in reporting the truth.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Watching Norm debate 3 zionists and completely destroy them is almost like watching Michael Jordan
If you think he "destroyed them", you are as delusional as he is.
deadass these guys might as well be paid by the IDF
@yorhaserene8604 Eli Lake works for the right-wing outlets, Daily Beast and Newsweek. I'm sure he is getting some of his paycheck from orgs representing the Israel gov't.
It's easy to refute liars, bro. Everything Norm is repeating is factual. It is immutable and these comics(?) have their collective heads up their arse.
@@wolfblitzerianyeah ok 👍 😂
Norman was calm and polite the entire time, Eli behaved like a petulant child.
Is he the fat bald guy?
He’s a Zionists! I find that they are not only delusional but aggressive
An UGLY petulant child. Don't forget to include this important fact!
He's probably a Buzzcocks fan...
@@J3unG😂😂👌
Never bring a knife to a gun fight. Prof Finklestein is a national treasure.
More like a cannon if you hope to get a draw.
Too kind. More like
Never bring a mushroom dick to a gun fight.
He absolutely demolished them ... [and displayed enormous patience in to the bargain]
This comment made me realize what’s really happening here. I thought Finklestein was finally in front of a non pandering audience and actually got obliterated. I was glad to see him on the back heel. There are 2 completely different situations going on in Israelistine and you either see one or the other. What a trick the devil is playing on us all.
They brought RUclips videos to a gun fight.
I am from jewish living in tel aviv. i respect mr finkelstein more then any of politics in knesset. i was told entourage, neighbors and any of my relatives to hate gaza and hamas. these past months i opened up to other voices and point of views after visiting new york met this men. told that to my parents they were furious,outraged, like this men is the boogeymen of the jewish community in new york,don't approch him,he's a kapo. after more self reflexion, i supported the palestinian cause and their right to live in israel with same right equal. my parents havnt speak to me since then. i couldnt live with the position i was holding. i can't say nothing at work with workmate, i can't have this conversation with my rabbi. but i know deep inside i made the right decision
God bless you ❤ You’re doing the right thing
Well done for overcoming the indoctrination and brainwashing ❤️
The world wishes there were more of you. ❤
❤ very courageous. Stay staunch.
I kiss your heart brother♥ Truth takes an enormous amount of strength
Professor Norman debating these idiots is like Einstein debating an infant on quantum physics. It’s disproportional, they never stood a chance. Professor Norman is a treasure to our species.
They don’t even know the history of Israel and Palestine. They don’t even know that Palestinians are indigenous to the area (proven with DNA).
👏👏👏👌👌👌
What a dignified gentleman..the truth and nothing but the truth .backed up by evidence..these two bumblers harp relentlessly using tactics befitting a child throwing a tantrum.. let's NEVER forget the Palestinian prisoners being held in Israeli prisons in detention without a trial some as young as 12yrs old. Genocide is happening right this second in Gaza and that's a fact!!! Netanyahu wants to occupy the Gaza and that's a fact..this has nothing to do with the hostages or Hamas... bombing so indiscreetly, who says they haven't bombed the hostages???
Who are the terrorists..l only see one group and that's Netanyahu and his IDF..
Yea not so much. You clearly hold one position. How about you restate Finkelstein best point in the comments? Just want to see if you can actually restate his argument.
Eli Lake reminds me of a pampered undergraduate who was the star pupil in his high school and doesn't like being challenged by smarter people at college. We live in a culture, fuelled by the media, which encourages people to be hysterical and emotive. We need more people like Finkelstein to teach us to argue calmly.
And wearing a t-shirt of Hertzel, I can’t help but think that he wanted to antagonise Dr Finkelstein.
It was in poor taste in my opinion.
@@masterfull6702bruh I deadass thought that was Serj Tankian ☠️😭
I'm pretty sure he's gay.
@@User0resU-1im pretty sure you’re gay
@naushad5139he isn't world famous.
He is communist and terrorist famous
Ask any normie non political tuned in person...they would say who?
Honestly, props to the moderator. Despite getting absolutely exposed as a biased, uneducated propagandist for 2.5 hours, he still posted the video. If i ever got publically embarassed like that, there's no way I'd post it.
Lmao these dudes had to have a humiliation kink to go through with this. There was not a single moment in the entire lecture Norm gave them where they weren't being utterly outclassed and embarrassed. Like watching a highschooler try to guard Shaquille O'Neal in the paint.
Some 'comedians' would rather be publicly embarrassed than not talked about at all... 😉
@@okokokokokokokokkook😂😂😂
Under rated comment
I thought the moderator was fair and asked fair questions. If I wanted to hear Finkelstein monologue without being challenged, I'd listen to a monologue, this however was a discussion, and the clarifying questions were mostly good ones. The "opponent" I wasn't too impressed with, but I thought the guy in the moderator chair did a fairly good job, regardless of his own personal position (which he didn't conceal, but didn't press either). And Norm had ample time to make his case, and, let's be frank, he does often answer in very roundabout and indirect ways.
I'd watch another video with them where they get into details for sure
One month later, Professor Finklestine was 100 Per cent correct.
I was about to write the samee thing
💯🎯🙏🤲 . Free Palestine!!
No he wasnt
@@SaintSkanderbegusYea he was. You should join us in reality.
Nope
Eli made a complete mockery of himself. This podcast does nothing but prove the importance of education and articulating your thoughts with care. Norman once again showed out and did so with grace and empathy for his co-hosts who were clearly nowhere near his level intellectually. He's a real man of virtue and a positive force in this world. Protect Dr. Finkelstein at all costs!
Norman is a sophist and a liar! He is the reason why there is a huge increase in Anti-semitism on American campuses and the streets of America. Finkelrat is not is a Intellectual. He regularly engages in intellectual masturbation.
This Eli thing that could be referred to as a human on a cellular level is as disgusting in his rhetoric as in his appearance.
He was inarticulate in his poorly understood knowledge of the entire situation and clearly biased due to his lack of evidence when bleating his IDF and Zionist propaganda in comparison to the calm, quick-witted fact-based (destructive - let's be honest, he completely destroyed these insignificant excuses for humans) responses from the great Dr. Finkelstein. Another win for the fair and the just.
@@mardeni958not sure how presenting RUclips videos and making emotional talking points constitutes a victory in a debate setting but yea sure I'll let you have that one buddy 🫡
@@mardeni958
You're joking that you actually thought he won right? lol
Have you read EVERY other comment on this video?
Eli wasn't even IN the debate.
It was a one-sided, landslide, fact-based, history lesson and schooling in an aggressive 3-on-1 from Dr. Finklestein. He barely broke a sweat and answered every question factually and calmly, unlike the child-like Eli and whoever the other two unknowns are.
Please tell me you were joking?
@@sha1169yea he's just taking the piss man. Just trying to get a reaction lol.
Eli started the debate by calling Finklestein "utterly demented". That is a cringeworthy instant loss. Instant fail. This is what people do when they have nothing left in the factual tank, no juice. If it hadn't been Finkelstien, Eli would have also called him "anti-semitic". It speaks volumes...and its laughable. Instant checkmate...wow.
I would agree, but then I watched the rest of the episode and found he wasn't wrong.
Eli was very biased and quite ignorant of the historical facts. Finkelstein showed remarkable patience dealing with him.
Comparing people in Gaza to slaves in America is demented. Shows you know nothing about Gaza or American slavery.
Norman is a monumental liar.I have corresponded with him over the years, and the guy is brilliant but an incredible liar.@@honestabe6841
@spfcasual3786 Ya at least the slaves had to work to do...
Dr. Norman is a man with integrity, he is a national treasure that we don't deserve. He is on right side of history.
The guy is a liar and scumbag who thinks what happened on October 7 was justified.
Since I discovered this man a couple of days ago and I can't stop watching his videos. How on earth did I not hear about him before?
@@knowledgebelaraby Because Palestinians didn't commit October 7 until a few weeks ago, and there was no reason to excuse unnecessary slaughter of innocent people until now. Enter Norm Finkelstein.
@@sandyunderpants4376 ever heard of intifada??? the Palestinians fight back whatever they can. today we have social media, not one side argument from israel hasbara
Finklestein is like many others. He appears impressive when you first discover him, but keep listening, and you'll soon discover he's a biased hack. He can only see things from one perspective and its not the perspective I share.
This felt like 2 vs. 1 and the one, Professor Finkelstein was far superior. Bravo.
Hence, it's not 2 v 1. The Eli character was more like a clown, hence maybe why the host had to step in a few times to bring some rationalism to that side of the debate (as he certainly seems to lean towards Israel).
It's 1v1. Just 1 equals one person, the other by an idiotic, partisan parrot and a barely informed guy (with all the power as the host).
I sincerely hope, Dr. Finkelstein in his lifetime see's a Free Palestine.
May Allah bless him with a long life to see that
He will be rewarded. May the truth prevails
Inshallah
I really hope so as well.
Have the utmost respect to him.
He's the epitome of a true jew.
Real jews are antizionists.
Finkelstein doesn't give a damn about a Free Palestine, hence his grotesque dishonesty and false equivocation. He wants the destruction of Israel, and he'd sacrifice every last Palestinian to achieve that goal.
If Israel disappeared tomorrow, he'd no longer pretend to care about Palestinians.
I’m an Arabic language scholar.
The speech that Eli and the host said proved that the speaker (minut 46:30) was admitting the usage of human shield is a big Distortion and lie. The speaker said EXACTLY what Dr. Finkelstein suggested: that the Gazan population are ready to give up their lives for the cause, that they won’t be pushed out of Gaza, they don’t fear death and therefore would surrender. That they welcome death as the Israelis love life.
This kind of usage/language is a rhetorical method in the Arabic language especially in war situations where the speaker either wants to uplift the moral and patience of his people and/or being used as a verbal attack to the enemy. That’s obvious to anyone who knows just a little Arabic. No where in that speach (which is probably a sermon after Israeli atrocities) does he admit to Hamas using human shields, he even includes the word “mujahidin” (ie. Hamas) SEVERAL times when he speaks about those who sacrifice their body and blood for the cause. So does that mean that Hamas uses it’s soldiers as human shields as well?
What he is clearly saying is that Gazans do not fear death, because they believe that if they die they’ll enter paradise, and that dying defending their land is more noble to them than fleeing.
You can agree or disagree with this way of thinking but one thing you can not do is to distort the meaning of what he is saying to mean that he admits that Hamas are using civilians as human shields. That’s just a lie.
If they are honest - which I doubt- then they misunderstood because they are ignorant of Arabic language, rhetorical and war-context language used in sermons
Eyes are not blind, but hearts and minds.
This should have more likes.
I have been studying arabic for more than 10 years. You are absolutely correct, and I even think it is perfectly understandable in english as well
Yup lol
Even in the translation, it lists "mujahideen" in the list alongside, and not outside of, women, children and elderly. Even in English, a list of four things in sequence results in all four having the same intended designation or attribution. If he had said, "this is why they have formed..." and didn't list the "mujahideen", then one could try to make the case that the three groups were the shields in front of the "mujahideen", with the "mujahideen" as the sole beneficiaries.
In any case, the rest of the shown clip, though out of context, still contextualizes the statement further, even if we didn't see the 4 groups listed together.
And even the sentences before that statement highlight that all groups are part of this resistance effort against the occupation.
This was better than a Comedy Central roast. Norman is a national treasure. He absolutely destroyed these two idiots.
That man-child with Herzl T-shirt better not go into a debate again. I can read the Hasbara guidebook myself, don't need such an unsophisticated intellectual lightweight throwing them around.
That he did.
The host said Israel only killed a few thousand people. As of today November 22nd. The figure is approximately 13 thousand dead with thousands more still trapped under tons of concrete. 75% of all dead are women and their children.
I wouldn't call the podcast host an idiot, even though he's a Zionist. He's able to criticize several aspects of Israel's actions and he is also probably the best moderator of debates on this topic that I've seen, and I've watched over a dozen.
@@yrrahyrrahbarely, he was hardly a moderator. It was a 2 v 1 debate and Norman wiped the table with them. They have no facts or any credible evidence other than saying ‘you’re wrong’
Well done... NF is truly the crème de la crème in this realm. Thank you for giving him a platform to help educate those like yourselves. He's a treasure ❤
“Eli, it is very unwise and imprudent to use cheap tactics with me.” Eli got a whooping in the most eloquent way this whole time. Called his whole bluff.
Eli is fighting his own demons and insecurities and externalizing it toward Dr. Finklestein or whoever else he can.
LOL! That's when he said he doesn't use Hamas' statistics, and then when asked what he is citing claims it was the Gaza Health Ministry which is literally run by Hamas. Norm did not acquit his position at all. Everything Eli accused him of was 100% true, and just because Norm filibustered the entire time by bringing up random anecdotes (Biden-style) doesn't mean his arguments were any good. The man is a clown.
@@maelstrom52So only Israel has legitimate statistics? Do you realize how cheap it is to completely discount numbers from one side, and then take the other sides numbers as truth just because you’re on their side?
@@maelstrom52he went on to site like 3 other sources with numbers and then explained the numbers of the sources, or did you stop right after he said "Gaza Health ministry"?
Time stamp please
"ELI you don't have a clue what you're talking about!" 100% accurate
If only he had the same appetite for facts as he clearly does for food.
Neither a clue or for that matter any hair!
@@menacetohighsocietypropaganda tool for the JudeoNazl death cult
@@Watcher6868 I agree. It's tragic in a funny way.
@@menacetohighsociety He's probably a vegan...
I have immense respect for Norman Finkelstein.
His pain for the Palestinian victims is sincere unlike many people who just do lip service.
His empathy gives me hope for humanity
Indeed he's sincere in speaking the truth and for that I have nothing but respect for him.
@@beebee242 We need more like him to spread the truth.
Yeh, I think we’re all do separated from it. If people just listened to people like him, we’d have a better world
I rewatched this ridiculous video immediately after Dr. Finklestein's appearance on George Galloway's show.
It is obvious to me now that this was a setup, that the corpulent, receding hipster and the Zionist podcast host set up a few of the segments to somehow confound Dr. Finklestein and impugn his veracity on all the (indisputable) facts he brought to the show. It's clear to see these guys are Zionist and seem superior to Dr. Finklestein and his empathy for the people of Gaza. It's gross but they lost. I hope people don't tune into this show. It's neither informative or useful. It's definitely not funny. Sad, really.
Eli Lake is so incredibly condescending…it’s all he has because Norman Finkelstein mopped the floor with him using facts.
Pot calling the kettle black?
This man, learnt well his answers, and he tries to convince others that he is the only one who speaks the truth. He talks about restrictions in Gaza, but restrictions we have in every country. We cannot leave the country where we reside to another one without our government‘s permission, and the permission of the country where we pretend to go/settle. Things are not that easy, and believe me, before being granted a visa/permit, the applicant is thoroughly investigated. He talks about the many children killed in Gaza, but why if the IDF used all means of warnings so they could move to a safer place, when they pretended to attack. Why those mothers didn’t move with their children? This is difficult to understand, because it was never heard of in any other war, and they didn’t move to save their children?
@@SaletePires-c9v They didn't "move to save their children" because they're being held hostage in their own country! Yes you can get a visa and come and go with restrictions that you have to get permission for from your own government, the difference here is that Palestinians have to apply to Israel for permission to leave, not their own country.
Imagine if you as an American had to apply to Canada for permission to leave your own country. They haven't had an airport since 2001.
I have nothing but respect for you Professor Finkelstein. You carry yourself with humility and dignity.
@ashamed1980, Have you noticed the Eli character when you see his teeth how it reminds one of the Clown in the movie "IT?"
@@ccahill2322 I couldn't careless how he looks. As much as I couldn't stand Blake's opinions Finkelstein didn't resort to cheap insults. Class act from a dignified scholar.
Indeed he does. I love that he does not attack the person, but the ideas. His demeanor is of a nobleman. In the face of remarks meant to disparage he stays focused and addresses the substance. Bravo professor Finkelstein.
@Ccahill2322 Good to see you are focusing on the right things. If you watch a debate and you comment on the appearance of one debater, you are a loser.
@@asahmed1980isn't he not a dignified scholar in actuality
Like he was denied tenure.
He is a Hamas schill
"Excuse me for raising my voice" said Mr. Finkelstein. Respect to Mr Finkelstein to his poise to deliver knowledge.
Dr. Finkelstein, what a man... what an honor to listen to him over and over again.
Sure, he's a liar. I'll give you some testimony from God since Momo of Mecca couldn't describe God's voice. God spoke fifty sentences to me from above over nine years' time span. His first nine sentences to me were 8.4.2015 in the morning. Since then I have told people and timestamped many prescient visions that came true. Go look up the word empiracal. I'll tell you what, I'm not going to tell you God's fifty sentences nor describe His voice. Tell you about all the signs God showed thru me, nah. You know why, I'm sick and tired of Muslims disgracing themselves and people. Muslims love mocking the fifty sentences God spoke to me. Stop mocking God and prostrating to a 7th century warlord who had a heart of evil.
2.20.56. Israel is not attempting to starve the Gazans.
Didn't age well.
Oh and did the moderator now apologise to Finklestien, now we see Gazan children starving ?
I'm 1hr 5min into this.
I've seen Mr. Finkelstein in a number of heated debates and yet this one has honestly left me beyond depressed. Hearing the main host just fully digging in as hard as possible to every source Norman is getting (the last straw for me was the poisoned water) and just literally ignoring the fact that - at this stage of the interview - there's not a single decent source on the Israeli side is just infuriating beyond belief. Its sheer tribalism. They don't WANT the other narrative of Palestinian oppression to enter their heads (espeically the host) so they're literally performing the most insane mental gymanstiscs to avoid it. Imagine asking "who sais the Wells are poisoness?" Jesus christ why the fuck would every human rights organisation lie about this? What's the point? Do we all want to break down Israel that badly and smear it that we'll just lie about every single source and every human rights report? It's just insanity they honestly can't see just how much blood is on israel hands because they go insane if they did. God help us all we'll look back on this one day with such utter contempt and disgust that we'll be ashamed to call ourselves Moral in any way whatsoever
Your take is spot on.
100%
excellently well put
Yeah I do think Israeli's are so brainwashed that if they ever get to know how much destruction their ideology has caused they might not be able to bear it. That's if they are humans because all look like monsters rn.
Your take is right. What you're referring to is burden of proof. When the consensus agrees on a particular notion, idea, or statistic, as most probably true, then the burden of proof lies not in proving the consensus true. It lies in the conflicting arguments discrediting the consensus and proving the contrary.
And that's why there is an information war. The more sway you have on the consensus, the more you capitalise on the nationalism and parroting nature of those that subscribe to you. Since its inception, the Israeli regime has gathered the tools and devices necessary to challenge the consensus when it aligns with the truth of its barbaric nature.
Hence, history is written by the victors.
This guy Eli mamages to be offensive to the eye, the ears and the intellect at once. A real achievement.
😂😂😂
Beautifully put.
It was painfull to watch the whole thing .
His attire was as sloppy as his thinking
😂😂😂
Prof. Norman Finkelstein has proven that humanity still exists, it was an honour listening to all the facts that he provided us. I can understand how difficult it must have been for Prof. Norman to educate these fools who see everything but pretend to see not and to hear everything but pretend to hear not.
Well said. Plus Eli looks like a self-hating egg.
Normank Finkelstein is a grifting tool, no one who has an ounce of respectability is able to listen to his annoying voice for more than 5 seconds
Absolutely 👍🏾
Well, I don’t understand and I agree with him on a lot, but he’s idea that well Hamas or freedom fighters when they jump the fence and rape and killed civilians and so that’s fair game by that standard anybody that claims their oppressed can rape and kill in murder civilians, so there goes the law of armed conflict. That’s what I don’t understand why people like support Finkelstein. I understand what he’s coming from, I agree with him about Palestine but I don’t agree that it is fair game to kill and bomb and rape, women, children, and civilians
Comedy maybe your forte..😂
I vote for Norman Finkelstine as the most thoughtful, intellectually honest and moral person on the planet.
Along with Francesca Albanese UN Rapporteur
Norman Finkelstein brilliantly debunked propaganda talking points in a 1 to 3 debate. Courageous and talented
A lion doesn’t care how many sheep’s are in the room. He knows he is speaking the truth
Hardly.
@@jalemairlihabrilliant rebuttal Einstein
And when Norman was asked a question he didn't like, his response was: "I'm not going to quarrel."
@@StrongbyLee Because they were bullshit questions; a fair judge would have sustained objections to them in a courtroom on the basis of being argumentative, prejudicial, not probative of anything relevant to the present Lidician operation by the IDF.
Lake: You're being selective in your sources
Finkelstein: Here's a list of reputable human rights groups I'm using as sources. Tell me which reputable human rights groups I must be omitting if I'm being "selective"
Lake: [Starts talking about something else]
exactoly
Lake: "I just thought that I would punch the line into and I thought he is not listening. Makes me feel like being a academic gangster."
Not to mention he had ZERO sources. He never mentioned a source except for Hamas.
"Hamas is a military dictatorship " COMPLETELY UNDENIABLE FACT.
frankenstien response "the people were never given a chance"
Yeah you psycopath hamas killed everyone else.
Where's his " source" for that utter deranged BS.
@@nightbroker At this point, you just straight up turned psychotic.
This is the same bumblefucked mentality of a flat-eather who similarly labels all space agencies "delusional" for saying the Earth is a globe.
But in all fairness though, you are correct in your assessment of your answer as "easy," because the truth is too _inconvenient_ for you to handle.
This debate wasn’t to change the mind of the moderator or the guest; it was to show us, the audience, the difference between narratives that are woven from supremacy and emotional arguments vs a narrative that comes from facts, information and unemotional morality.
Man, I wish that was the case. It was evident that both the host and Eli believed the arguments they put forth. The host made his beliefs known both in the questions he posed and the way he posed them. However, although that may not have been their motive, the real message is just as you claim: that the overwhelming majority of citizens make determinations based on emotion, racism, and propanda-based belief systems rather than facts or logic.
Yes, Norman made clear, he was speaking to the listening audience. I liked that he maintained the highst of goals throughout. They couldn't drag him down.
The chick: I never heard of mowing the lawn in Gaza, and bc of that I don't believe it was said.
Does she think Norman made it up?
This is a good take - that there’s a silver lining:
Despite the gaping hole of disagreement between the pro Israel supporters and Norman, a chasm not shrinking probably ever, the conversation is valuable to the reasonable folks of all walks of life who exist in that middle ground. And for that we should be thankful to the not-norm participants/host.
It would be better if they respectfully disagreed and found the value & sacrifice in Finkelstein’s dedication to a suffering group of fellow humans.
(Not that I didn’t cry for the Israeli victims of the massacre. I did cry. Devastating. But the response has been beyond comprehension.)
Ugh.... People taking middle ground is a coward, IMO.
Why it's so hard to see that one is the occupied and another is the occupier.
I am totally on the side of the occupied because my country have centuries of history being occupied and it's just terrible, the occupier always take they never give something back, they do feed us but only enough to keep us alive, nobody have full belly it's a luxury.
It was a crucifixion, not a debate.
Professor Finkelstein- we love you, man.
This is sixth time watching this lecture, not a debate, but you keeping your cool is just unparalleled, sir.
I had tears listening to you, Dr.
No one ever talked about the suffering of the Palestinian like you do. All my respect
Can anyone who opposes Hamas explain to me? What do you find strange when you say we should destroy HAMAS for killing 1400 ppl . ok, fine, but we also should destroy Israeli governors for their uncountable crimes and massacres . why does it sound like something crazy to say ???,?????¿
I want to know the logic
I loved seeing how Eli Lake completely dodged Dr. Finkelstein's question about what respected human rights source he was leaving out.
100%, and he said 'im happy to answer your question' and then went on to not answer the question
@tablesalt2628the Eggman Quarterly
@@mrh3894Says a lot about our society that he's deemed as a respected intellectual, then to watch him have a fit for 2+ hours.
@@hb98678 not only that he has one schtick which is to go on TV and cheerlead for war with Iran and watching him clumsily try and shoehorn that in was as or more painful to watch than his ad hominems and well poisoning
He just jumped to a bunch of videos him and the host had set up in advance! He literally never answered it, but kept using it to accuse finkelstein on every point he made from then on, it became his only counter argument!
The worst was when finkelstein questioned Israel statistics and the host (the supposed neutral arbiter of the debate) said ‘because it’s an open society’ like that is even remotely true or would prove anything even if it was!!
Thank you Dr Norm Finkelstein for your work. You are a national treasure.
Eli’s intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking. Resorting to cheap and morally impoverished tactics only elevates Finkelstein to even higher levels and exposes himself as a liar with zero integrity.
Can’t respect Dr. Finklestein more. People like him make the world livable. What an exemplary humanitarian, who has had to suffer so much to tell the truth.
I agree. 🤔 The man is a truth teller under very harsh circumstances. He is a very brave scholar.
Insane that the idiot host kept interrupting him. Talk like behaving like a chimp in a glass store.
Amen brother. Peace.
you need help you anti semite.
How hard is to debate uneducated person with preconceived notions like these two, they don't know that they don't know, May God reward you Norman Finkelstein for your hard work to do this
Well done Norman, outnumbered, interrupted and mocked but you still managed to cut through. I hope this guy is better at comedy than he is at hosting...
Am sorry to inform you he is worst😂😂😂
@@Redpill555you are spiralling and the world is turning on Israel and for good reason and deep down you know it
I am very much on the side Norman resides on, but I thought the host did genuinely try to be fair. He clearly was on Israel's side to begin with, as were the others in the room, so in light of the factors against fairness, he did alright. I was thinking kudos to him for having this convo. Eli was the one who seemed the odd one out - totally unhinged.
@@Redpill555lmao
@@jeffjackson5277 Agreed, it was a good talk with respect presented on all sides, Eli the least but again it's an emotionally charged conversation to have.
It was painful at times to listen to this, but Norman was so patient with these two guys that are clearly completely out of their league in terms of research and intellect. The difference between internet personalities and a true scholar couldn't have been more evident. Thank you Norman.
One man relies on his intelligence, intellect, and memory, whist the other two just present ridiculous foreign language cartoons.
Bullseye. Internet personalities vs true scholar. Eli actually calls Finkelstein historically ignorant and a false friend to the Palestinians. He is not a serious fellow. He is not operating in good faith. That's as charitable as I can.
the two irrational "make it quick..." tards act like many Israelis, immature and derp like it's not even comical. It's unreal.... I almost want to feel sorry for them. Unfortunately, my country the US and the UK did this. We all helped created these gullible goons.
I feel like they also don't stand a chance because there is exponentially more research into the occupation
I agree with you it was so painful to watch when one side was trying to base off of facts and one was combative and used cheap tactics like discrediting the other side's sources without any reasonable grounds. Eli's arguments were basically, let people watch, I don't have to say, it is so obvious what I stand is the truth. So obnoxious and uneducated.
To be honest, They even don’t know how to deal with an academic.
As an Arabic person, I would like to express my appreciation for Professor Norman Finkelstein. You did what the other people are afraid to do, basically going after historical facts, statistical information, and just being honest with what is really around. This indicates the maturity of the research methodology followed by the professor in searching for the truth. With all respect for you.
The term "mowing the grass" has been used by Bibi Netanyahu and dozens of other right wing politicians including Benny Gantz . I am surprised that the youg lady who is Jewish has not heard of it. Selective reading perhaps.
As a Caucasian Australian who has no bone in this fight, I'd also like to show my appreciation for Norman for not fearing speaking truth to power.
💯
@johnnysoccer1983 I'm from New Zealand and feel the same way. Norman and other Jewish voices have been some of the best perspectives to listen to in this whole thing
May god bless him with full heath and long life, he is a symbol of bravery and truth... As an Arab and Muslim, may we see more people who follow the same principals...
Norman Finklestein is an amazingly courageous academic and humanist. He deals with facts. He has been studying and researching the situation in the apartheid state of Israel. Amnesty International has joined other leading human rights groups in stating that Israel’s “system of oppression and domination” over the Palestinians amounts to the international definition of apartheid.
Norm changed my perspective massively, and now more than ever I know myself to be on the righteous side of history. Thank you professor.
Righteous..? Wow, that's scary talk. But I guess it's appropriate if you're fighting a religious war..which is what this is.
Nah as another victim of genocide, Israel has hone too far. I know what kind of father's you have. They taught you not to feel remorse for the death of Palestinian children. You wouldn't dare disregard the value of human life for Jewish oppressors so out of four fear when the rage of your humiliation of your oppression you kick the man shorter than you as your oppressor calls you a good boy. Tragic honestly
@@mardeni958Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism. This is about Colonization, ethnic cleansing, and genocide. @ikkuwalo1225 is on the righteous side of history.
@mardeni958 it's a war of colonial resistance, not religion. Hamas would resist Israel even if Israel was completely atheist.
@@tylerspear5046 What about the huge parcel of Palestine that Jordanian Arabs got? Are the Palestinians complaining about them?
I'm an Israeli Jew.
And I applaud Norman Finkelstein's moral clarity.
The genocide in Gaza is indefensible.
Be careful about where and what you post brother.
@@promark5317 Why? Are you threatening him?
@@sombra1111 no. Israeli police have been visiting people posting stuff they don't like.
@@promark5317
Absurd, truly!
@@beverlystraus9300 Do you think what I said was absurd? If so I can show Israel doing exactly that.
Norman Finklestein - a man of conscience, honor, and truth. It’s always a pleasure watching him educate (even in vain) the brainwashed bigots and the willfully blind.
@@griffinhess3390did you actually listen to what they were saying or just disassociating with anything that you don’t want to hear?
@@griffinhess3390 write a well-constructed criticism to counter his points.
@@noble_experimentgot’em 😂
@@griffinhess3390yeah, and they had no good points.
Norman Finklestein is a true intellect. He knows and understands this issue better than anyone i've heard.
And no one even dares to debate him or bring him to his show if they pro Israelis
ummm he is literally the leading scholar on the topic. what youve heard is irrelevant.
Hmm. ... The host 'to me seems pro Israel'; this leads me to wonder what truly pro Israel people are like ????
@@r.b6170probably sponsored by them…
@@r.b6170 he definitely is.
Great talk and hats of to Norman Finkelstein, a brilliant speaker who conveys his arguments calm, factual and with a great deal of reflection. His ability to feel, understand and acknowledge the oppression of the Palestinians shows a high ethical and moral compass
lmfao the terrorists showed up
@@alexraymond5572"da terrorists showed up"
What a mook.
Ad hominem isn't an argument. It's just you being emotionally unhinged. @@alexraymond5572
In order for people to understand what Norman said. You should watch up some videos of "Breaking the silence" organization.
@@logitech7989 or mein kampf
Okay so 2 months later..
Seems like Finkelstein was right about everything, including Sinai. Shocker.
We all await Mr Lakes redaction and course correction with bated breath 🙄
Finkelstein is a literal legend, we must protect this man at all costs. Such class even when being insulted, even apologized for raising his voice by like 2%
Dear Dr Norman . You are the voice of truth in these horrendous times. May you be blessed with more years in this service.
Who else got shivers when Norman Finkelstein said "Hamas took 290 hostages, guess what Israel has taken 2 million 3 hundred Palestinian hostages". What a brave, moral man Norman is!
It's just like anti-zionists to take things that happened to Jews and use them for themselves. Disgusting, "Actually there is a holocaust happening to Palestinians right now blah blah blah." Except their population keeps growing whereas Jews just got back to their pre-holocaust numbers. How is that the same thing?
They could leave whenever they wanted if Hamas let them before the war. There are influnecers who were at the world cup in qatar and on vacation. This dude has a pathological problem.
@@jayjacob6855Palestinians with dual citizenship you goober. If you think Palestinians without foreign passports can leave you are an idiot.
I mean the propagandized shill you enjoyed listening to didn't even dispute the point because it is that obviously true that Palestinians aren't allowed to leave.
When your basic little mind starts adding its own justifications on top of the propaganda you deepth0at you are in trouble.
why tf would they want to leave a home that's been there for 10 generations just for some born again Jew that's gonna get skin cancer pretending he is "native"@@jayjacob6855
@@jayjacob6855huh? What are you saying?
Time is the best judge. Mr. Eli, please verify if Norman Finkelstein was mistaken about Israel.
Norman is far and away the most educated man on this subject that has ever lived
Studying for 40 years and living the experience leaves him the undisputed authority on the facts about Israel/Palestine.
Read more broadly, not even Finkelstein would make this claim.
@@InshushaGroupie I’m pretty sure Norm has said exactly what I said just in different words
I would be absolutely amazed to hear him say something so preposterously arrogant, but feel free to show where.@@noname772fp2
That must be the strangest massacre ever known in history where the oppressors far outnumber the victims.
This is like watching Albert Einstein debate a couple of third graders on theoretical physics
and the third graders act absolutely certain they know more than Albert Einstein at that!
I dunno about that analogy bc at least kids would try to get to the truth of the matter. These bozos are just trying to push Israeli propaganda.
Einstein was a plagiarist and a moron who couldn't tie his own shoe
@@HM-rz8nvhahaha they got so destroyed it wasn’t even a competition xD
It’s so funny that they were so speechless that they started to attack him as a person rather then rebuttal his argument which is a cheap tactic and it still failed xD
Normal Finkelstein is an elderly man, and I am full of admire how he was able to debate those trolls for more than 2 hours. Mr Finkelstein I admire your composure, calmness and wisdom.
Well he’s 69 - not that elderly
Idk if they’re trolls, they seem like they’re approaching the discussion in good faith; they’re just struggling with the emotional reality of what Finkelstein is saying.
@@DanEMO592 I think you’re right
Absolutely a real honest and good man. Those lot are the usual privileges ignorant supporters of Israel, they likely have Isralie passports themselves. Does anyone know their citizenship status?
"elderly"
what?
Amazed at the patience of the professor in the midst of arrogant stupidity. That's a great teacher.
“Eli, Eli you can laugh, but laughter can also be a sign of ignorance” 😂
Eli I'm not going to resort to the juvenile insults u hurl at me frankly it's beneath me 😅
He is a gem
The host's reply to that was genuinely amusing though: 'I own a comedy club, I certainly hope that's not always true' 🤣
Fried him
Brilliant takedown🤣 Norm proves how simple it is to dismantle zionist nonsense with simple logic, critical thinking and a modicum of human decency.😃
Never seen someone so respectfully and intellectually destroy people like Norman. Truly a once in a lifetime scholar
Wait are you saying those people destroyed Norman or am I mistaken?
@@hyperdog67 you are mistaken
I’m thankful for people like Norman to speak for those who cannot.
I respect a man who recalls examples from history to make a point.
I love how Eli casually omits the fact that Israel bombed the people who fled south on their way south.
Cognitive dissonance
I am highly disgusted to realize that we have people in the west such as this show's host (Noam?) and Eli who support the genocide that Israel is committing in Gaza. I am beyond embarrassed to say that I once represented the same group as these disgusting human beings. How can you ever justify civilian casualties? What kind of insane moral compass do you have to support such criminal acts? Do these people not realize that their support of Israel enables the state of Israel to further murder women and children in Gaza? I am extremely disappointed with the state of west as of today where we are breathing in the same air space as these murder supporting lunatics. Ah words can't describe my disgust with these crime enablers.
That part made me angry too. This feels like an intentional omission because those facts don’t fit his argument
They can’t openly admit the truth even to themselves how telling
The Israeli helicopters were shooting everything that moved after the fact, most civilians were killed in the crossfire.
I don’t know how Dr Norman Finklestein can be so patient… bravo
His patience is an adaptation that allows him to survive his superhuman stubbornness. He has the soul of a mule. God bless him. Free Palestine
@@RobertDranemost underrated comment😄
He doesn't have the capacity to consider the justification of his own opinions. That leads to certainty.
@@ruffryder13 When you can see someone clearly projecting it looks like they're aware of a problem they have and are deliberately accusing others as a diatraction tactic. This ignores that its a subconscious process. Projecting doesn't subjectively feel like making something up. It feels like noticing something. Please reflect on that.
@@RobertDrane Will do, Mr Jung. I hope you reflect on the fact that what you said is nonsense.
Prof Finkelstein cures heart breaks with his honesty and commitment ...Thank you for enduring all this for all of us.
Two groups in Europe professed to be the "super race" or "the chosen people " two groups herded their victims in to large ghettos , and two groups reacted savagely to the other for having the temerity to rise up against its jailers. Warshaw and Gaza are the clues.
FUNNY THEY SAY HAMMAS IS UNDER GROUND OR OUT OF THE AREA SO WHY DROP EGGS ON THE PPL IF THATS THE CASE
Norman wiped the floor with these guys lol
Norman was constantly interrupted and stayed calm. What a man
He was interrupted because it is his rhetoric strategy to speak all the time in order to dominate the talk.
@@EverGreenElephant Or to state the facts, which take time, rather using talking points by the three partisan hacks.
@@EverGreenElephant Stepping back from the conversation at hand, believing this is a good way to get yourself swindled by fools. Sharing information, thorough information, takes time.
@@EverGreenElephantright.. the interrupted caused the interruption.. not the interrupter.. right cause that makes logical and perfect sense..
Seriously? He talked more than both of the other guys
He's incredible. Thank God there is someone as educated as him speaking with so much passion. I've been horrified to learn about what's been going on in Gaza for so many years. I have been ignorant. Thank god there are people like Norman Finklestein who have devoted so much to help these poor people.
Poor Norm, always having to debate people far below his pay grade. Bless his patience and commitment to truth. We treasure you
Noam and Eli are physically incapble of letting proffesor finklestein finish a sentence.
This was so frustrating to watch. The host was mostly fine and even asked good questions. Without a doubt he had his own bias. But Eli came not to discuss but to debate and prove Dr. Finkelstein wrong. Having watched Dr. Finkelstein’s lectures and other interviews, he’s a very slow methodical speaker and that’s how he crafts his arguments. But it seemed at every corner they would interrupt him and say “Aha! See you’re a hypocrite!” and he was clearly still express his thoughts. There was no serious intent to learn, but only to disavow. Dr. Finkelstein has spent over 40 years studying the Palestinian situation and has arrived at his points after decades of research. It’s fine to disagree with him but it’s insulting to question every factual point he brings up and discredit it. It blows my mind that he would discredit Amnesty International without any reason other than the fact that it runs counter to how he “feels” about Gaza and Palestine. In fact, starting at 55:40, Eli basically admits that he distrusts the death toll simply because he feels like it’s not trustworthy. There’s nothing scholarly about what Eli is saying, he’s parroting the Western talking points that we, including myself, have grown up with. And sorry, I have to mention this, but like him or not, he is a PhD and has earned the title “Doctor”. I don’t think Dr. Finkelstein doesn’t care much but it bothered me that he was not given the proper distinction any time Eli referred to him. It’s just bad manners disguised as righteousness.
Norman is a beacon of light that illuminates the darkness of this world
His sheer determination, integrity and struggle to remain objective, factual and morally upright is nothing short of a spectacle to watch
Norman, I adore your steadfastness, your years of commitment to extreme hard work, your meticulousness in analysing the facts and presenting them in a lucid (I’m using your vocabulary now) and articulate fashion
You dismantled a group of people with opposing views with clear cut facts and objective data. You dealt with a hostile speaker who couldn’t contain his emotion and resorted to cheap attacks and ridiculous conclusions, by remaining upright and avoiding stooping to his level
Like you said, you didnt engage or give credence to his cheap tactics because it is beneath you
You are honestly one of my favourite personalities to ever walk this earth
I wish to meet you one day
I’m in awe of you
Please keep up the good work and thank you from
The bottom of my heart for revealing the truth
Your parents would be proud of you, they raised you so well
With love,
Chams
Sincerity and integrity >> charlatanism and rhetoric
Mr. Finkelstein, you don't only teach scholar thinking and historical fact checking and how to stay deeply connected to one's humanity and empathy even when that means you stand against the majority of your own , but you also teach how to keep prudent and composed when you are arguing with people who can't bother but to read their own headlines and know nothing else on the ground. I applaud you for making points only with scholar work and not attacking anyone's person . You are an absolute hero.
Big respect for Dr. Finkelstein. I applaud that he never passed moral judgement to his opponent. I love the quote “juvenile insults.”
This Finkelstein guy is a light
from Heaven. I think God creates such phenomenal individuals for the guidance of mankind. And his brilliance is something to behold. In the video, he is like a mighty lion surrounded by little barking dogs, and he is just pacing up and down, giving them occasional smackdown, but mostly giving them lessons in the knowledge of hunting.
Eli Lake put himself in an absolutely awful and hopeless position of debating the Israel-Gaza issue with an actual professor and expert on the subject in Norman Finkelstein while also defending genocide by the Israeli military.
Yeah. Definitely an impossible task. He's so brave to even show up lol
wrong.
@@mattconstantine9884right 👍🏽
He got his ass kicked.
I feel sorry for anyone tasked with going up against the righteous Norman Finkelstein. The moral compass of a whole being cannot be swayed with any earthly delights. That scheming snake-tongued Dershowitz was frazzled during his debate with Finkelstein on Democracy Now. He was so embarrassed by his absolute failure to prove his side he got Norman fired although he was a tenured professor. Norman has paid for his moral compass but will always be remembered as true north.
✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼🇵🇸
Never quarrel with facts.. Thank you Dr Norman Finkelstein.
Except that he does throughout this debate, just any intellectual ought to do, because facts can say whatever you want them to say without the appropriate context and associated facts. let alone whether the fact is even true. Facts evolve as we learn more and gain better understanding.
norman is a gem. throughout he is SO patient, calm and sticks to facts. Eli just makes ridiculous personal
attacks and offers nothing of substance. major props to norman and so much respect for him.
I would feel embarassed for Eli if he wasnt so absolutely detestable that I wanted to punch my tv
Sorry but Eli id right Norman is a Fake friend that made a carrer hating being jewish. HE is a candance owen
The guy saying "are palestinians trying to get attention by getting killed by IDF bullets?" was one of the most cruel arguments ever made. I was speechless
who said that ??@@iand4374
If someone sees this in years when I will be no more .. I’m nearing 50… pls don’t let the general media make Norman like they did to me with Malcom x.. I love this man and his heart and I adore his brain and integrity .. may God bless him for being a voice for the oppressed.. aameeen
Thank you. . Interesting discussion, i found Norman Finklesteins argument by far the most compelling of all . Rational, intelligent, moral, and factual, i applaud Mr Finklestein for standing up for humanity and for truth 👏
The way they are speaking to him and he refuses their childish prompts to say hamas are human animals. The children's video is pretty nuts. It reminds me of people in my childhood in ireland shouting nastiness towards each other. They have no interest in knowing anything new. I dont find them to have a genuine interest in the subject at all. They're flipping from video to quote to baiting him to say they are animals. Like stick to the bloody facts children. I am amazed by his patience.
If you're going to debate Norman, you have to come prepared because he is a facts machine.
not really he dances around everything in complete vagueness
@@PorchMusicknot at all. He addresses every issue and question with detailed paragraphs, backed by sources
It’s hard for him to accept the absolute beast he is when it comes to his knowledge on this subject.
His aspy Special Interest is injustice and it's presence in the State of Israel.
He knows how many hours it would take to impart the information needed to be thorough and detailed in his answers. He could deliver the truth. We can't handle the truth.@@wg3951
I felt genuinely embarrassed for those two, but props to them for allowing the video to go out and their whooping to be our entertainment
‘Whooping’ ?!? How stupid are you 😂😂 Finkelstein is a self hating charlatan.
😂😂😂
So true
Ya. All those videos were supposed to help their argument. Lol
They don’t care whether they are ones who are wrong, what important is the ratings/traffic.
I felt embarrassed for Norman
The presenter started trying to look impartial, but ended up realising that Eli Lake was on the ropes and looked panicky as he repeatedly waded in on his side😂
It's really rare to see people as intelligent, courageous, non apologetic and truthful as Norman Finkelstein !
It's really surreal !
May Allah increase him in his wisdom! And give him long life.
... as well as guide him into Islam. The man has a truly Muslim mind.
@@suhaibmohammed6122ameen
Norman Finkelstein, you are a shining example of what it means to be a good person. Your fight against racism is making the world a better place.
lol
I couldn't agree more. Very well said. You know, they pay people like this spacejunk troll to pollute social media. A lot of work goes into casting doubt in the minds of truth seekers.
"Hamas is a military dictatorship " COMPLETELY UNDENIABLE FACT.
frankenstien response "the people were never given a chance"
Yeah you psycopath hamas killed everyone else.
Norman Finkelstein you are a shining example of the decay and rot festering in the academic mind of America. Your fight FOR a totalitarian theocratic government that celebrates the killing of Innocents has made the world worse off.
@@AlbertvsMagnvs how so?
Hey Noam, I think it’s time you call Dr Finkelstein and apologize to him and admit that he was right. Israel has now without a shadow is now starving Gaza to death.
I hope Eli Lake, when he reviews this podcast, gets to read in the thousands of comments the unanimous and unrelieved derision and contempt that his performance in the debate so richly warrented. It is clear that Eli Lake will now live in opprobrium as the know-nothing apologist for the endless crimes of the State of Israel who was fool enough to think going into the debate that he was somehow a match for the towering intellect and meticulous scholarship of Professor Norman Finkelstein. Lake is likely to become the internet's new Norm Coleman after the hapless senator and his Senate committee were schooled on the Iraq war by George Galloway.
you are wrong, I am sad to say. He is well received in many places and on many shows because sadly, there is a market for his b-llshit and his nonsense
Sadly I very much doubt he will. From body language alone he looks down or smirks at palestinian murder. That is a lack of humanity.
yeah, hes a little nazi worm wearing the costume of a jew @@danahm6663
One thing you forget. Zionists think anyone no matter with facts or not are beneath them and their supremacy. This is what people seem to not understand. You cant debate with these people. Zionist think they are chosen people. There for its like u sitting there debating with a dog. I know its harsh what im saying but its absolutely true.
Nah, he's probably getting paid to be a hack.
As an Arabic speaker, what professor Finkelstein said that it means "we are willing to defend our cause with our lives" is 100% accurate
Talking about human shield to protect Hamas here is utter nonsense
Moreover, it is provably false. Amensty International investigated allegations of the use of human shields in it's 2009 report following Israel's 'Operation' Cast Lead - titled "22 Days of Death and Destruction". From page 4 of the introduction:
"However, contrary to repeated allegations by Israeli officials of the use of “human shields”,
Amnesty International found no evidence that Hamas or other Palestinian fighters directed
the movement of civilians to shield military objectives from attacks. It found no evidence that
Hamas or other armed groups forced residents to stay in or around buildings used by fighters,
nor that fighters prevented residents from leaving buildings or areas which had been
commandeered by militants. "
However, that is not the full story - there are two 'sides' in this conflict.... The host interupted Norman before he could explain that there is EXTENSIVE evidence of Israeli forces used human shields in 'operations'. This is an excerpt from Page 48.
"During Operation “Cast Lead” Israeli forces repeatedly took over Palestinian homes in the
Gaza Strip forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they used the rest of their
house as a military base and sniper position - effectively using the families, both adults and
children, as “human shields” and putting them at risk. While soldiers wore protective body
armour and helmets and shielded themselves behind sandbags as they fired from the houses,
the Palestinian inhabitants of the houses had no such protection."
And another from Page 49
"According to testimonies, in several cases Israeli forces also forced unarmed Palestinian
civilian males (mostly adults but in two cases also children) to serve as “human shields”,
including making them walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby
traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives. These practices are not new.
Numerous such cases have been documented in recent years and the Israeli Supreme Court
has ruled that such practices contradict international law and prohibited them in October
2005"
@@lestersmiley1781 Because not every idea can be easily translated into every langauge... Have you never heard of the phrase... 'Lost In Translation'???
@@lestersmiley1781
It's like when an English speaker says "I'll sleep on it" meaning he will think about it, but then someone learning English tells you, oh he said he needs to write what you said on a paper and then put it under his pillow and sleep on it, it's a superstition English men believe in
The general facts are pretty cut and dried, and pro-Israel can only quarrel infinitely about points of detail. 1. A land doesn't belong to you because you're ancestors were there 3000 years ago. 2. Palestine was occupied by Ottoman then British colonizers. 3. The British colonizers decided to accept the request of Zionists and offer part of that Land for a Jewish homeland. As a colonizer that offer is not legitimate as it steals the lands of the local population. 4. The Palestinians are not responsible for the acts of Egypts and others nations who decided to attack Israel. 5. Since then, Israel's disregard for international law, UN resolution, and human rights is well documented, to the point of leftist israeli NGOs and activists fighting against its own government and for justice for the Palestinians. 6. It is not the fault of the Palestinians that some of their leaders were bad actors. You cannot use that as an argument to justify the indefinite oppression and dehumanization of a people. 7. Prolonged oppression, humiliations and dehumanization produces terrorism. 80% of the children in Gaza suffer from depression. Imagine that, not as a cold dehumanized statistic, but as a daily reality for millions of people, just suffering, humiliations by settlers and soldiers in the west bank, day after day with no end in sight. The prospect of never being able to leave The city-prison of Gaza in all your life. The oppressor is responsible for the terrorism it produced. You cannot oppress people and then complain about how they are fighting back in an unjust manner. 8. Even when using peaceful manners of resistance, palestinians are demonized. Whether it was in the Great March of return or the strategy of boycott which is then denounced as antisemitic, no strategy of resistance is tolerated, as if these people who are oppressed for 75 years should just accept the boot on their neck forever. Which people in the western world would accept that? 9. People point to the antisemitism of palestinians and there is no doubt it is prevalent. What about the racism and islamophobia of israelis? Their current government is totally right wing. Incredibly racist statements from politicians are easy to find. Settlers mocking the palestinians in the most disgusting ways are easy to find. What is their excuse, when they don't live under in an impoverished state under oppression and propaganda from their leaders, but in an open democratic society that has access to all the beauty of civilized culture, what is their excuse? 10. How do you make peace with a country that continues to accept immigration from all parts of the world and builds settlements in Palestinian territory? What kind of "peace process" is that? It is a charade, a strategy to induce pacification from palestiniens fighting for their liberation, while prolonging indefinitely discussions where one side has no leverage to negotiate fair terms, while gaining more and more territory. Ultimately the goal is not 2 States, but one failed State that serves as a reserve stock for cheap labor in the only State that has a functional economy and military. 11. If you think that the Jewish people deserve have the right to a Jewish State where they can live in security, fine by me. Why install it in the middle of hostile nations? The US is so engaged in the right of Israel, why not offer some of its Land then? After all, its only one of the largest countries in the world. Surely the people of Texas would allow to be displaced for some part of the State to become an independent nation. Obviously I'm being facetious but you see here that the support for Israel is a geopolitical issue more than out of care for the Israeli people. Anyway, considering the extreme radicalization of people on that issue, and the deep seated nationalism and religious beliefs of people, we are not solving this issue soon. All nation states and borders should be abolished, for nationalism is an absurd destructive ideology, and borders are arbitrary human constructs that divide us for the interests of the ruling class of each Land.
@@hamzaartofwar3 if Finkelstein had indicated that he was attempting to translate the clip, that analogy would apply. that you would say that means you have no specialized insight into this as an arabic speaker, because if you did, you would have shared it. Instead, you say that a man who clearly declares he is not translating and does NOT know the language is making a common mistake of language learners in general.
It was awesome to watch Professor Finkelstein destroy every argument they can come up with. Still waiting to hear Eli’s resources by the way.
Haha. So true
lol what arguments! The defense mechanism of any idiot with no susbtance is trying to offend the person they arguing with which is exactly what Eli was trying to do, but Norman is a legend, he never once gave him the time of the day. It was amazing to watch. I wish I can argue this way with idiots and never stoop to their level, but I would have lost my cool.
His source is "God told us 2000 years ago"😂
Eli is a gay, anti-muzzy/Arab atheist who happens to have J heritage, but advocates for j supremacy. I wouldn’t waste my hearing senses on what that overweight slob says.
FYI notice the abbreviations I had to make because of the false notion of free speech on this platform. Very one sided.
His sources are US and Israeli govts, or RUclips videos with questionable translations. 🎉
Norman Finkelstein... a gem, precious!
Its not easy to go against your own people..but being just means going against anyone..be it yourself, your family, the rich or the poor. Prof. Norman Finkelstein is truly one of a kind...amazing and just human being.
Most hasidic jews are anti zionist and view i quote ; the present state of Israel as a blasphemous human attempt to usurp God’s role, and many actively work to dismantle the secular State of Israel.. I think we need to hear more from the ultra orthodox community.
It would be hard. There are a decent amount of Jewish people in America who agree with him and even some in Israel, so he has common ground with part of his community.
Dr. Finklestein is not a Zionist. The Israeli's are Zionists. Zionists are fascists. Many Jews are not fascists or zionists. A lot of those folk are in the streets now to try and stop the bloodletting in Gaza. Any decent human being would do the same thing. The hairless wonder and his near receding sidekick are experiencing cognitive dissonance because they are protecting Zionists because (incorrectly), they think Jews are cool with it. They are obviously cool with Zionism and thought they could pummel Dr. Finklestein on their insignificant little podcat.
Keep in mind Finkelstein is a life long communist in America so he's used to people not agreeing with him and hating his views. Personally I respect him all the more for it
I like your comment but I think the bigger point is we are all people, going against your people is going against humanity but I still like your point
I don’t know how dear Norman keeps so rational and clear. He’s amazing. The others here should be ashamed.
Deep respect to Mr Finkelstein. His wealth of study and focus on this issue for decades is so vital now. He also has enough wisdom and integrity to allow this level of childlike ignorance and verbal attack to roll right over him and justly so. I salute you Norman, for being present through this in the way you did. Most switched on and awake folk would have walked out.
So, have you retracted your statement and admit Prof Norm was right?
really shocked me when they tried to argue that 4000 children dead was somehow not that big of an amount because of the population density. That it somehow proves that the IDF isn't indiscriminately bombing. I would have lost my cool at that horrific statement.
I know right. Insight into their insanity
Truly demented reasoning from the host there.
LMAO it’s also like, why is it so densely populated?!?! Hmmmmmm it’s almost like someone forced all these people into a tiny speck of land and put a fence around the place 😂
For the record from the river to the see is about a multiracial ethnic and religious country. The idea there is one population that has a monopoly on genocide is annoying- .Cambodia, Sudan, Darfur, Bosnia, Rwanda, East Timor, Armenians, Native American populations- so many more.
Israel is in power in this situation, that needs to be an underlying fundamental everyone can accept.
That’s not what indiscriminate means, indiscriminate bombing with no targets would result in all of Gaza being destroyed
Dr Norman Finkelstein displays patience and compassion as he schools Eli and Noam on history, morality, and humanity. A tour de force.
LOL, that was funny as hell, thank you
Prof Finkelestejn wiped the floor with Eli & Co. His intellect is unparalleled, he has devoted his life to this topic. I could listen to him all day, calm , concise & informative
Wrong
@@thankuweremopped the floor with him.
The amount of times Finkelstein gets interrupted is infuriating
Norman is a powerful voice! No ability to call him anti semitic, thank you for speaking out for Palestine
He's guilty by association and omission.
The general facts are pretty cut and dried, and pro-Israel can only quarrel infinitely about points of detail. 1. A land doesn't belong to you because you're ancestors were there 3000 years ago. 2. Palestine was occupied by Ottoman then British colonizers. 3. The British colonizers decided to accept the request of Zionists and offer part of that Land for a Jewish homeland. As a colonizer that offer is not legitimate as it steals the lands of the local population. 4. The Palestinians are not responsible for the acts of Egypts and others nations who decided to attack Israel. 5. Since then, Israel's disregard for international law, UN resolution, and human rights is well documented, to the point of leftist israeli NGOs and activists fighting against its own government and for justice for the Palestinians. 6. It is not the fault of the Palestinians that some of their leaders were bad actors. You cannot use that as an argument to justify the indefinite oppression and dehumanization of a people. 7. Prolonged oppression, humiliations and dehumanization produces terrorism. 80% of the children in Gaza suffer from depression. Imagine that, not as a cold dehumanized statistic, but as a daily reality for millions of people, just suffering, humiliations by settlers and soldiers in the west bank, day after day with no end in sight. The prospect of never being able to leave The city-prison of Gaza in all your life. The oppressor is responsible for the terrorism it produced. You cannot oppress people and then complain about how they are fighting back in an unjust manner. 8. Even when using peaceful manners of resistance, palestinians are demonized. Whether it was in the Great March of return or the strategy of boycott which is then denounced as antisemitic, no strategy of resistance is tolerated, as if these people who are oppressed for 75 years should just accept the boot on their neck forever. Which people in the western world would accept that? 9. People point to the antisemitism of palestinians and there is no doubt it is prevalent. What about the racism and islamophobia of israelis? Their current government is totally right wing. Incredibly racist statements from politicians are easy to find. Settlers mocking the palestinians in the most disgusting ways are easy to find. What is their excuse, when they don't live under in an impoverished state under oppression and propaganda from their leaders, but in an open democratic society that has access to all the beauty of civilized culture, what is their excuse? 10. How do you make peace with a country that continues to accept immigration from all parts of the world and builds settlements in Palestinian territory? What kind of "peace process" is that? It is a charade, a strategy to induce pacification from palestiniens fighting for their liberation, while prolonging indefinitely discussions where one side has no leverage to negotiate fair terms, while gaining more and more territory. Ultimately the goal is not 2 States, but one failed State that serves as a reserve stock for cheap labor in the only State that has a functional economy and military. 11. If you think that the Jewish people deserve have the right to a Jewish State where they can live in security, fine by me. Why install it in the middle of hostile nations? The US is so engaged in the right of Israel, why not offer some of its Land then? After all, its only one of the largest countries in the world. Surely the people of Texas would allow to be displaced for some part of the State to become an independent nation. Obviously I'm being facetious but you see here that the support for Israel is a geopolitical issue more than out of care for the Israeli people. Anyway, considering the extreme radicalization of people on that issue, and the deep seated nationalism and religious beliefs of people, we are not solving this issue soon. All nation states and borders should be abolished, for nationalism is an absurd destructive ideology, and borders are arbitrary human constructs that divide us for the interests of the ruling class of each Land.
My absolute favorite thing about free speech, is we now know where the lines are drawn.
Both are emotionally invested, One side is stoic, informed and calculated as as the other side is trying to understand.
Kudos to everyone that has respect for the other ones across the table.
And for those who have ad hominem in them attacks, I'll just say thank God for free speech.
Oh you underestimate the Zionists they have "self hating Jew", nomenclature in their back pocket.
@TucoRope2Tight
Nice speech but indigenous rights have no expiration date. Jews have been living in Eretz Yisrael for the past 3,000 years uninterrupted.
According to international law, it is illegal to acquire land as a result of a war. According to your logic, Russia’s annexation of Crimea is acceptable. China’s expansionist activity in the China Sea is acceptable. Can a Texas rancher take land from Mexico at the point of a gun?
No, wrong. That's an inaccurate and incomplete statement of that point of law. Actually, there is nothing illegal about retaining territory captured in a defensive war pending a final peace treaty in which final borders can be negotiated. Tell me even ONE instance where the victor in any war anywhere simply handed back territory to a losing aggressor, WITHOUT a peace treaty, to enable the aggressor to attempt a "do-over" of their failed attack, with no permanent losses (other than all those killed and wounded in the war, of course) so the aggressor could simply try to do it again? That would only ENCOURAGE MORE AGGRESSION, not deter it.
According to international law, it is illegal to acquire land as a result of an AGGRESSIVE war. The aggressor is not allowed to keep the fruits of his illegal aggression. That is not a stand-alone fact, but a corollary and consequence of the fact that aggressive war, itself, is illegal
No, because that was naked aggression against an independent country that was minding its own business. Ukraine did not attack Russia; it was the other way around. Russia’s pretext, that they were only “defending” the self-determination rights of ethnic Russians who lived there and who invited them in, was a transparent pretext.
Now you're comparing apples and oranges. I'm not in favor of such expansion, but, acquiring new land territory (and its associated territorial waters) that DID NOT EXIST before, by building artificial islands in what had previously been international waters, is a completely different issue than the question of making an aggressive war of conquest against another sovereign nation. The grounds for opposing China's expansion there rest upon completely different principles of international law that would be a mere distraction, a red herring, to throw into this discussion. So, let's not go there.
No, of course not. That would be connquest by naked aggression. Illegal. But, when the Yankee "Texicans" moved into the Texas territory of Mexico back in the early 19th century, with the permission and encouragement of the Mexican government, and then, chafing under the authoritarian dictatorship of Santa Ana, sought independence for themselves, THAT was not a war of aggression; they were defending their right to live in the place where they were legally present, and to govern themselves. Let me add that it was NOT ILLEGAL for Santa Ana and the Mexican army to OPPOSE that independence move, either -- BOTH sides had a legal right to defend their conflicting rights.
The Palestinians do not have to make war, though, to do the same thing, govern themselves; Israel is EAGER to make peace and let the Palestinians do that. The Palestinians are the ones who have rejected land-for-peace offers time and again, since their actual goal is the COMPLETE destruction of Israel, and its replacement with an Arab Palestinian state. THAT is illegal aggression.
Just as it would have been illegal aggression for the Texicans under Sam Houston to try to conquer ALL of Mexico, not just fight to preserve their independence in the portion of the land where they actually lived. As an aside, one could argue it was also an illegal act of aggressive war (by modern standards, but not back then, since no such law yet existed on the books) for the U.S. to aggressively invade Mexico a few years after that, and capture most of what became the Southwest U.S. even though the U.S. did so on a pretext of defending against Mexican raids into U.S. territory. The Nazis disingenuously claimed the Poles were violating German sovereignty, too, in 1939, before launching the blitzkrieg that conquered Poland. We look to the realities, and the intent of the parties, not to the flimsy rationale an aggressor presents to the world to save face. As noted above regarding Russian conquest of the Crimea, that is just a fig leaf.
No. That's naked aggression. And that’s why the Arabs’ failure to AGREE to the UN-suggedsgted partition plan in 1947, and their decision to refrain from declaring an independent Palestinian Arab State at the same time Israel declared its independence after the British withdrawal, but to “roll the dice” and gamble on the success of an aggressive war of conquest where they sought to kill all the Jews and TAKE all of Cis-Jordanian Palestine (the Mandate territory) by naked conquest, was the FATAL original sin of the Palestinian national movement. The Palestinian national movement has no RIGHT to anything whatsoever, after that point. But, in the interest of peace, Israel is still willing to give up land to allow creation of a Palestinian Arab state, alongside the Palestinian Jewish state - which changed its name to Israel, when it declared independence in 1948 .
First, what do you mean by "the" land? The West Bank? All of it? Most of it? Is there no room, in your mind, for adjustments to create "secure and defensible boundaries" as UNSCR 242 requires? Do you expect Israel to simply hand it over, without a peace agreement being negotiated, as UNSCR 242 requires? Or by "the land" do you mean ALL of the geographic region known as "Palestine," the former Mandate territory -- ALL the land "from the river to the sea"? In other words, are you denying Israel's legitimacy, its very right to exist in ANY boundaries? Of course you know Israel cannot agree to THAT, and has a right, under international law, to defend itself against aggressive war by parties seeking its destruction.
And, "RETURNED?" Sorry, one cannot "return" something to somebody who never had legal sovereign title to it in the first place. That territory (assuming you are talking about the "West Bank") was previously held by Jordan, after Jordan had illegally and aggressively conquered it from Israel in 1948, and then maintained its illegal occupation for 19 years. Jordan disclaimed any rights to that land in 1989, before it made peace with Israel in 1994. So we are not talking about giving anything "back," we are talking about a NEW entity that wants to come into existence -- a Palestinian State -- for which Israel is willing to GIVE UP land over which Israel, too, has a rightful claim, IF it will be done as part of a full, negotiated final peace agreement.
Sure, one can talk about "natural" rights -- that people who ACTUALLY LIVE someplace have the right to live in peace and to govern themselves -- I can agree to that. But that right does not allow the Palestinian Arab national movements to take by conquest any land that the party holding custody of the land at present would gladly cede to them, through negotiation. War is a legitimate option for self-defense only when an actual act of war has already been taken against a country by an aggressor, or when an attack is so imminent that waiting for the first blow to fall would be suicidal.
This man has paid a heavy price personally and professionally in his life. He is intelligent. He is thorough in his work. You have to respect him. He commands it.
Really like what happened ??
@@noors.7048 his family was killed in the holocaust and he has spoken out about human rights abuses for his whole career Palestine/Israel being one of many
@@noors.7048 denied tenure at and was a trailblazer since he was a PhD student at Princeton. Chomsky praised his work as " I warned him, if you follow this, you’re going to get in trouble-because you're going to expose the American intellectual community as a gang of frauds, and they are not going to like it, and they're going to destroy you." just mad respect.
@@noors.7048He was denied tenure at DePaul university after a smear campaign and his work was badly affected by Israeli lobbyists.
Sucks when people have to face the atrocities they support. Norman is a genuine humanitarian, and I feel for all the suffering he has gone through in reporting the truth.
is this a joke?
@@thewkovacs316No, but you are Zionazi
@@thewkovacs316no u are
@@thewkovacs316you’ve commented over and over again and have provided nothing of substance.
@@Dickson421 what substance would you like that you would accept. because im not going to waste my time if you wont accept it
They said he wold apologize if Israel starves gaza.... I wonder if he did it yet
Norman answers all his questions calmly, without getting personal and with FACTS!!!!
Eli is regurgitating tv news headlines. Not one ounce of critical thinking skills.