Small YouTube Culture | Big Joel
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- Опубликовано: 10 май 2019
- This is a video about a small youtuber, Avrona, and about the culture that surrounds him.
Support me on Patreon: / bigjoel
Follow me on Twitter: / biggestjoel
Avrona's channel: / @avrona 
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Big RUclips culture | Small Joel
BIG ALPHA RUclipsR SMALL JOEL
Must be the next video. Please be the next video.
THIS IS THE FUNNIEST COMMENT I VE EVER READ ON YT
@@SithSpear xDDddd
Smole joel
Only at 3:47 that i realized this Avrona is actually a person, i was thinking he was just a metaphor
At the start, I was confused at his absurd choice of a name for an imaginary person.
*nuts*
maybe this video is a metaphor for life :_?
Same
Too many Innuendo Studios videos?
My dad had a lemon tree that he absolutely loved at our old house. Whenever there was a bug infestation, he did research into what would kill the bugs without harming the tree. It doesn't freeze that often for us, but during winter he kept an eye on the weather so he could take steps to make sure the tree survived. It didn't matter how late it was, if he thought it would freeze overnight, he would go out and wrap the tree in blankets to protect it. We had so many lemons from that tree that we had to give them to our neighbors.
But...
He also had a grapevine that he cared about and for just as much as the lemon tree. No matter how much he took care of it, the poor thing never flourished. He made sure it had the proper soil and sunlight and water and everything it needed. Sure, we got some grapes from it, but they were small and bitter. Just like the lemon tree, he protected it through winter and it never froze. I remember asking him why it was struggling and he told me sometimes crops just don't do as well as you want them to but you have to give your best effort or else you won't get anything from it.
Tl;dr my dad had a lemon tree and a grapevine that he loved and cared for. The lemon tree flourished and the grapevine struggled. Sometimes plants struggle regardless of what you do, but you have to keep trying.
Em Custard New sub here 👏🏼
The best laid plans of Avrona and this guy’s dad, often go astray …
Man this feels like a parable, thanks for sharing
lovely story, dear:3
Stories like this that I can tell about my mother and my partner made me think "Joel's not a gardener, is he?"
Why a tree might get ill (unrelated to caretaker)
1. Change in ground water level
2. Increase in soil acidity
3. Nutrient shortage due to overcrowding plants
4. Fungus
5. Other sick trees nearby
6. Temperature shift
7. Someone been hacking your tree up
Goodnight everybody
Tree is too old? Too young? Hail storm came in and fucked it up (Happened to me once boo hoo) Fucking asshole squirrels, birds, possums etc... Bad genetics of said plant? High winds? Humidity levels?
Good comment. The moral of the story... You never have complete control of stuff...
Global warming...
Stop... I dunno... shaking all of the leaves off of the tree maybe? Leaves are kind of important for tree health.
I hate when people hack my trees
I have a tree and if I drive it in my car and don't cover it with a garbage bag it gets really sick
When life doesn’t give you lemons, blame the algorithm.
it is called "God" or "Contingency", depending on your viewpoint.
The unpredictability in complex system, chaos theory. Etc.
Life didn't give us lemons, science did. Lemons are the product of selective cross breeding of other citrus fruits, and people just think it happened organically.
@@AlexMint That explanation is... wait for it... mint! It's funny how so many of our commonly social acceptable sayings are either only half the actual quote or just factually off-base. Like if we were to further deconstruct that "life gives you lemons"-engineering phrase, we can see, "oh look, this was derived from a system that was man-made"... and then apply that to so many maladies that afflict society.
Alex Mint actually there’s no evidence to suggest that lemons come from selective cross breeding
@@jacklent353 While lemons probably existed before, they surely weren't as big as today.
I translated the binary and it says "I love you"
that's at 14:55, for anybody in the future
What format did you use? 64 bit ASCII?
@@prashant97 There's no such thing as 64-bit ASCII. ASCII is, by definition, 7-bit, (although almost always now with a single extra padding bit.)
I love you is cursed
I have not verified this, but I think this is the best possible outcome and I'm going to go ahead and merrily believe it.
"Data ... it is possible to commit no mistakes -- and *still* lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."
--Captain Jean-Luc Picard (ST TNG, "Peak Performance")
Don't expect to do close to nothing and be successful tho
@@potmki6601 But I did all the things.
@@potmki6601 You kinda missed the point didn't you?
Thing is arguably Data made a fatal mistake by playing the way he did as opposed to playing the way he ended up playing, which was to his unique actual strengths over his opponent. Once he did that, he won - and don't say "it was a draw" because the opponent clearly conceded in a ragequit. And so, within the episode, Picard's wisdom there turned out to be just quitter talk and had he truly heeded it, he'd have remained a loser even though he had the potential to win (with victory guaranteed, without relying on chance or anything like that, just by playing right). So I don't know about that quote, really - the episode it comes from seems to have unintentionally undercut it.
@@abdulmasaiev9024 im really glad i chanced upon this comment
One of my favourite pieces of advice I got from a mentor of mine was this:
"In the recipe for success, there is always luck. You can do everything right, but if you don't get lucky, you'll fail. This isn't your fault, or anyone's. It's just how it is. Knowing when you failed because of luck, and when you failed because of you, is a skill."
It helps me remember that sometimes those who succeed and we think they shouldn't have just got the right amount of luck for a recipe that needed a hell of a lot of it, and sometimes those that only need a dash of it can never seem to get it.
Love this. It’s very true.
That sounds a bit like when you give an advice and go "but i dont know" at the end XD
Which is fair; some people may even quantify their advice as "asking people to subscribe increases subscribe rate by X%" but i think running a youtube channel by yourself is too hard.
And there must be 100 things you have to do to increase your impact; maybe even hiring a host could be one. So i can imagine doing what works is overwhelming.
I choose to believe this is a stealth critique of bootstrap capitalism as a whole.
"stealth"
I was just about to comment.. but thanks you get a thumbs up. :-)
Oh I don't know about stealth 😁
@@AnHeC It all makes sense to me. Early RUclips is like early capitalism where everyone has a chance. Then the big youtubers' videos are favored by the algorithm because they are already popular and new youtubers can't get their product seen like a small business with no marketing budget trying to sell a product similar to the one the big company is selling.
I've got a severe case of dumb bitch disease and completely missed that until your comment so thank you
This reminds me a little about how some people talk about mental health, and sometimes physical health. If you follow the rules, eat right, exercise, say the affirmations, then you shouldn't be sick. While these rules can be helpful, they're not the end-all.
I have some serious mental health issues. In my experience with therapy, often the therapist will suggest something that might be an issue or might suggest a solution. Often, they are things that I've already considered or tried or just don't agree with... and often therapists get frustrated with me that I'm dismissing many of the things they try to tell me. They assume I'm in denial or otherwise unwilling to accept an inconvenient fact about myself. One of them actually diagnosed me with "Oppositional Defiant Disorder."
Honestly though,it's really just because I need to be convinced of something before I will accept it. Why should I take for granted that someone I only speak with an hour a week knows myself better than I do? I couldn't do that even if I wanted to. Whenever I do disagree, I always have a reason for doing so and I try my best to articulate that.... I'm not denying it for the sake of denying it or something obtuse like that. And if they manage to articulate their argument and convince me, I have no problem accepting it.
don’t let a psychiatric authority take advantage of you. Psychiatry regularly abuses patients for profit
Ooh, damn. That hit close to home. I've been dealing with undiagnosed (recently diagnosed) autism and the depression and anxiety that comes with that my whole life. It's not until recently that I realized I wasn't doing anything right or wrong for my mental health, per se, I just didn't understand it.
@@jincyquones Reminded me of a mom who would consult therapists about what to do with her child who suddenly started to be unresponsive when outdoors. Two fruitless months later he became responsive again, then a couple of weeks later her luck reversed.
Turns out, the new warm hat she had bought him was covering the ears too well.
totally! People need an explanation for why people who are in a worse situation than them are there because it's their fault.
If people are in the positions they're in due (in part or in full) to circumstances beyond their control, we'd have to account for that. We'd have to be less proud of our own achievements and more compassionate towards others.
Avrona's refusal to take advice can be understood as a game in the context of transactional analysis in psychology. The game is called "why don't you/yes but", and was described by Eric Berne in Games People Play.
The idea is that Avrona gets some kind of psychological reward from people who try to help him, only to tell those people that their advice doesn't work. Especially because he plays the same game with regards to the lemon tree, it looks like he is a regular "player".
The end result of Why don't you/yes but is that the opening player, the child, is reaffirmed that his position is hopeless and that he is powerless to change it. He achieves this by making the other player give up after giving lots of advice.
That's actually quite a brilliant way of seeing it. I see it differently (to the same end) but I'm happy to see this too.
Sounds like Games People Play is worth a read!
Thank you. I just saw the same pattern in a friend’s posts and wondered what the point was to always complain and then have an answer about why non of our suggests would work. I read that book years ago. Must dig out my copy.
I'm both players in this scenario and I do not like it.
This reminds me of a channel called Rian Stone.
So much of this is in that it's not even funny.
I’m coming up on a DECADE of being a “RUclipsr” and I only have around 3,300 subscribers. That used to bother me a lot, but I just don’t have the mental or physical energy to post consistently enough to gain traction. (I know exactly what I’m doing “wrong,” lmao.) I decided to just embrace it and post things I’m proud of anyway, stuff I have fun making, and I feel a lot better. And I can clearly see my own personal growth as my craft improves. ☺️ A lot of the community’s hyperfocus on audience growth and analytics is just too toxic for me.
I'm glad you commented because I clicked on your channel and it's great! Subscribed right away, keep up the good work!
(also, while I obviously hope that the creators I like find all the success they wish for, there's something cool about small RUclips channels that's uniquely inspiring. It's genuinely uplifting to see someone making great stuff/doing their own thing despite not having massive subscriber counts. It feels more personal to engage in a smaller community, too. I think it's easy to go "fuck it, I'm not trying then" after we see hyper-successful people dominating their creative field, and that's led to so many people choosing not to even *try* creating. The constant emphasis on productivity and commodification in creative spaces these days feels draining. Can't we just make stuff and enjoy it, too? :) )
@@christinar379 Aww, thank you!! 💙 I genuinely didn't expect anyone to look at my channel after reading this, lol
@@christinar379 A million times agreed.
@@MorganGale I just watched your video about coming out, and it was great. Though I have not subscribed (because my understanding is that the algorithm punishes channels which are not watched by subscribers and the bulk of your videos did not interest me), I still want to show some support.
I just checked out your channel and I love it! Now I'm a new subscriber :) you're personality is so sweet and relatable and I'm also a biromantic asexual so it's awesomesauce to discover your channel. I hope you keep going and get more recognition bc you truly deserve it. Stay strong, lots of love xxx
I'm actually stunned at just how poetic and on-the-nose the lemon tree thing is. Like, that's the guy's whole attitude summed up right there.
I know! Hope his tree got better though.
Right? For a moment I thought Henry made it up.
It is even more ironic because people readily assume that it's all his fault regardless of whether we're talking about lemon trees, RUclips, or the capitalist economic system. Because the possibility that there are factors that are beyond an individual person's control are *deeply terrifying* to people on an existential level.
Big Joel was mistaken about the tree's mismanagement being a foregone conclusion. For all we know the tree could've had some anomalous factor involved. Something rare or unintuitive. We really can't know for certain whether or not he was caring for it properly.
@@JoeNoshow27 Exactly. If the lemon trees illness is a recent development, I assume it's nothing Avrona caused himself, as I would assume that if Avrona was mismanaging the tree, surely symptoms would have developed sooner. Of course, it still could be Avrona's fault, but I wouldn't assume that as the most likely cause.
the simple presentation and doodles were surprisingly effective. i support your artistic dreams joel
Oh hi sangled
@Spanish Moustache I know. It's.... Wack, I guess
Those things are the reasons I enjoyed this video, and kept watching it.
lol he doesn't draw it
Bored Again it’s stylistic
I actually really needed to see this. I'm not a jerkass like Avrona. But I do find myself lurking in the subreddits and wrecking my brain tryna figure out how to grow. I've taken the advice and my shit has gotten way better. But it's still super stressful. I'll hang in there. Thanks Big Ass Joel.
Glad you figured it out :)
Big ass Joel is an all star
I like how the algorithm is described as being metaphysical/mysterious/cursed. It makes it sound like some Orwellian thing.
*THE ALGORITHM HAS DECLARED YOU A THOUGHT CRIMINAL*
I think what you're looking for is lovecraftian
@@tompatterson1548 Try "Kafkaesque"
Because it is. We are doomed
Yes, you called?
When life gives you lemons, give them to Big Joel so he can make a video linking it to RUclips Culture
I always hated that saying, because it assumes you have water and sugar
@@robertm3951 or just vodka/gin/rum
Nice 👍
OMG, that is perfect
🌽 but brilliant! The lemon tree post analogy was excellent as such.
+1 on the sugar &/or booze
This was amazing. I remember going to those small youtuber subreddits myself, never really thought about the impact of them since I deemed them worthless early on... great job making sense of it, Joel.
There’s something a bit strange about seeing another RUclipsr I’m subscribed to comment on another person I’ve subscribed to when I had no idea they knew each other.
P.S. I really liked your last video!
@@sampines5494 Generally, they don't know each other. One of those recommendations on the small RUclips subreddits and the like is to comment on videos of a similar style to your own to make your 'brand' more well known.
Didn’t expect you here sup
daym daym hi KB
You deemed them worthless early on, but NOW - You Know Better ;)
I love how you try to bring something back to this site thats been missing for a long time: honest humanity. Not some comodified code that is understood as "the honest youtuber", but actualy, genuine und also partly, naturally awkward honesty.
Thanks for that, Joel :)
this is a painfully “blind leading the blind” situation
exactly the whole "small youtuber advice community" feels so incredibly self defeating it's almost comical. like, no one here can actually help you because if they knew, they wouldn't be here. markiplier isn't on these subreddits, telling these people legitimate ways to get dozens of millions of subscribers. advice is always good, but if these people really knew the answers, then they wouldn't ALSO have virtually no subscribers.
I'll tell you from personal experience that you can try everything you're supposed to and get no success. Likewise, you can try nothing you're supposed to and get massive success overnight. There's always luck involved.
Some subscribees of mine interacting with one another. Neat. :)
I made a subreddit one time as a joke, and when I came back it had over 1500 people subscribed in it lmao. Yeah you just gotta hope for the best, and don't be disappointed if it doesn't work out.
Hi! I love your videos! omg this is so weird!
Oh hey, James! I know you're probably not looking through other people's channels to get recognition, but I want to tell you personally (without being drowned out by the torrent you must receive on the daily) that I greatly enjoy your videos and that you are an influence on what I plan to do with a RUclips channel I plan to create.
Anyway, fanboying aside, I think you're totally right about the luck aspect of RUclips. Even without taking the algorithm into account, there are a multitude of factors that all interact with each other to create content that people either do or don't like, and sometimes it is completely unexpected and unexplainable just what those factors are. You can look to people that 'made' it and point out "oh, well they did this, this, this, and this right," but that kind of analysis only really works with rose-colored hindsight.
This parasocial relationship must be a little weird for you to deal with, but I'll see you around.
hi!
Big Joel pivots into being the wise older brother of RUclips
We should have seen it coming, considering his sweaters.
Big Brother.
here to deliver the lesbian wisdom we don't deserve
onii-san haha
@@decepticonne damn straight
I guess I should probably make some kind of comment on this video, though I am in the middle of uploading a full-on response. I would just like to thank Big Joel so much for the growth on my channel that has been generated. This whole Reddit drama hasn't been really kind to my channel, as some people even took to dislike botting my videos, and even attacking it with 1.4k+ fakes subs, so to see something genuinely good happen to my channel finally just can't be underestimated. As things were going so badly and so many people disliked me I had brave souls send me some screenshots of nasty conversations about me from Discords I'm no longer allowed in. I do go more in depth on everything in my own video on the matter, but again thank you so much to everyone who visited my channel as a result of this video.
I wish you luck in your endeavours. Don't try to blame others. I believe in you! It is your path, your journey, and you must take risks and all the help in the world to become the one you dream of.
This is a really interesting video, and it does have many points that are true...
It does give the whole thing a new perspective...
And I guess I have to thank you for that Avrona, because without you, this video wouldn't exist...
Me personally I take feedback a lot and try improve things, but it has always mostly been the way that I improved only on the things I agree with...
Yeah, idk where I'm really going with this, wanted to make some point, but got lost in it... so I guess ima just end the comment here, lol
Glad to hear it man.
You just need to learn to actually take advise and be willing to face where you may be making mistakes
@@ziggybluwaters5060 That's not really the issue though as I do actually do that unlike what so many people want you to believe.
I've been making RUclips videos for 11.5 years now. I know I can get there one day. I know the things I do wrong, just not how to fix them :(
Still can't find a niche or anything either
I’m glad your hard work paid off in the end
nice that you found it
damn this is crazy
Jeez man grew double the size of big Joel
this is cute lmao congrats
I see this as yet another facet of the survivor bias: people try to develop the rules of success based on content creators that made it without analyzing factors that sunk many others and may have been avoided by the winners either with sheer luck or without anyone realizing how close they were to derailing their career.
I am not saying anything is completely luck-based, I am more saying that "losers" are more important as case studies than most would think.
+
Yeah I mean YT succes is basically a just a lottery, right?
AliceDiableaux Partially, not basically.
If you're chasing a trend, you're already too late, as the saying goes.
And some losers just leave due to other matters. A two year part time sabbatical made me realize that YT changed in ways I couldn't keep pace with. Who was Zoie Burgher? Where did she come from? I had too little time to keep up with the changes.
Love the way you critique somewhat quirky and offbeat cultural topics like this. Always fascinating, insightful and amusing, your videos are a true delight.
Indeed.
Nice video man. For what it's worth, I find seeing what has worked for other successful channels is much more effective than following any advice from RUclips Creator's Academy
Which channels and videos specifically?
@@niknieblas In my opinion, that would all depend on the types of videos you make, the style of video content you’re going for, and your target audience.
For example, a content creator who owns a RUclips channel centered around cooking may want to do some research to find which cooking channels are regularly trending in that community, which ones consistently get lots of views, and from there, try to determine why that channel/video is so successful.
General questions that could be asked:
-Are they introducing themselves at the beginning of the video, while regularly injecting their personality into their videos?
-Do they make an effort to respond to comments and interact with the community?
-Are their thumbnails/titles eye catching?
-Do their videos have high production values, with music, editing, good camera work/angles, voiceovers, etc.?
-Does their channel have a particular theme within that category, or do they make videos across a wide variety of topics?
Anyways, that’s what I’d guess is partially what the original commenter meant.
@@TheNickJames Thanks. That makes sense. I'm having a hard time seeing where I might fit in and who I could look to as an example of the path forward. What do you think? Maybe you're familiar with some vloggers who might be around my style. Haha. ruclips.net/video/eaGXTREHI60/видео.html
@@niknieblas I’ll let you know after giving it some thought, as I haven’t followed too many vlog channels in the past, but it’s a style of content that I’m starting to get more into!
Wow, seeing those subreddit thread titles makes me wonder how many of those I've posted in.
when Big Joel makes video about small youtube but it's actually a metaphor for poverty
Or more generally, systems where we are told it's a meritocracy and there's 8 simple rules to success, when in reality, there's more at play including luck (chance).
on-point comments are on-point. ♡
👀
When the comments are this woke
I'm not poor
5 minutes into this video and I'm already hearing things I've said that sound like Avrana's response to criticism. Like, last week. I'm a goddamn adult.
Thing is, when I talk like Avrana, I *think* I'm just asking for clarification or more details. And sometimes I really am looking for clarification, but sometimes clarification is just cover.
I feel you, Avrana. Raise a glass for the unselfaware.
If you’re looking for clarification I find adding the question “could you please clarify?” Or even just tagging on a “thoughts?” At the end helps people seen that.
@@sourgreendolly7685 no you dont understand i have thought of everything and there is absolutely no way for me to improve any more and it is absolutely patronizing for you to suggest otherwise how dare you WHY WOULD YOU ATTACK ME LIKE THIS
I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to do this less, and a big thing I learned was that I needed to stop asking for feedback as a way of seeking validation. I'd feel like the world was being unfair to me, and want to vent about it, but I didn't know how to say as much, so I'd end up framing it as a question. All I wanted was for someone to say "Yeah dude, that sucks," but to everyone else it sounded like I was looking for a solution. When they offered solutions, I'd feel like they were denying my feelings, so I'd get frustrated with them, and then they'd get understandably frustrated with me, and it'd spiral from there. Nowadays, I try to recognize when I really just want to vent, get that out of the way, and then go looking for actual answers with a clearer head.
I think we've all done this a time or two. Maybe more than that. Avrana strikes me as the type of person who desperately wants validation. That is, he doesn't really want advice, he wants to be told that he's good and has done good and that he hasn't done anything wrong. His requests for "help" have, in his mind, a predetermined reply he wants but will never get.
My son is 12 and on the spectrum who also loves making RUclips videos. He also really reacts negatively to criticism, but he still takes it in eventually. This was great for me to share with him. Appreciate 🧩
"I'm doing something wrong here, help"
"It's not that"
"It's not that"
"It's not that either, it's none of the things I'm doing"
honestly it feels a lot like people who are mentally ill but refuse help. now I'm no ableist, I'm mentally ill myself and I know how difficult it can be and I can be understanding of others who have a much harder time understanding their situation, but there's just some people who refuse to get help and it's so upsetting. it's like, you want these people to get help but it's hard when it feels like you're being antagonized.
avrona reeks of someone who can't deal with their issues and just deflects that on everyone else.
Oh man. There's a famous /r/letsplay thread where a bunch of people tore into a not terribly famous Markiplier. This reminds me of that.
Dude, thanks for bringing that up. All those people telling Mark he was wrong was weirdly comforting. Maybe it's the reminder that most critics are just that. No one has the magic bullet.
@@sleepingdogpro But this is not comforting. There is nothing you can do within your power as a normal person to guarantee success. And someone could have money, power and connections but make it so obvious that their fame was engineered they get the opposite of acclaim. This truth should be comforting to nobody.
@@tomkrawec And another unsettling thing that I've seen expressed by RUclipsrs/streamers is there will come a day when their channel withers and their audience numbers start bleeding quickly, and they become forgotten. Popular interest and the Algorithm™ are extremely obscure, and they ultimately have no control over their livelihoods. They won't know what happened, they won't have seen what caused it to happen, whatever it is. It's like how I imagine trying to learn to ride a unicycle is, except no matter what you're off-balance, and any minor success at balancing yourself is ultimately going to be followed by become unsteady and something going irreparably wrong.
+
This was a fantastic watch.
I watch your content) Good job!
Jesus even Captain Midnight now knows who Avrona is. That said, I love your channel sir. Keep up the good works
The Virgin Big Channel:
-Abuses AdSense
-Milks trends
-Has to make Daily content
The Chadvrona
-youthful/spry
-enjoys a hobby
-doesn't care about criticism, just doing it for himself
-passionate about his hobby
The irony of youtube is that by the time the algorithm is pushing your stuff your quality control has probably gone right out the window. So many channels that have a nice chunk of good stuff from four years ago and then 20 times as much garbage-of-the-week content.
@@BCThunderthud I've noticed this too with my stuff. It took me two months to make my first video. It took me two days to make my newest video.
I hope Avrona is doing good.
He actually replied above
@@MuttFitness and he (including up to the last reply he left 3 days ago) is still just as terrible at life as ever, I thought Joel was exaggerating his personality when I started watching the video but then I saw Av's comment and his responses to people in the thread it started and he is 100 times worse than as Joel described
I really loved the drawings in this! They matched the tone very well and felt really REAL for some reason, a lot of really raw expression.
same. just came to the comments to say the art is kickin. it was probably took a decent amount of time and i think it was really worth it.
this one was a banger, bud
What's so soul crushing about any entertainment or creative field, is that no matter if you do everything right, you use every silver bullet in the industry, you can still fail.
When I did my channel for about a year, getting 30 subs, spending about 4-6 hours a day on the content then editing, and I realized I'd have to put in even more time min-maxing thumbnails, titles, personal energy, scripting, etc. just to have a slim chance of making any money at all, I had to put it down. Mad respect for anyone who can keep up the grind, and also for those who do it for themselves and aren't chasing the numbers and algorithm.
As a small youtuber myself, my philosophy is that you should make videos that you wanna watch... However, while I had success, it seriously declined. I don't know why. Sometimes I think that I missed out on my one chance to be successful. It haunts me.
Anyone else reminded of arguments incels make from this video?
"I don't know what I'm doing wrong! girls just don't like me!" as they proceed to ignore literally all dating advice and make no attempts whatsoever at self-betterment.
Precisely this. They provide absolutely nothing substantial for their partner and wonder why no one wants them and their anime body pillow.
It's blissful ignorance, or full out denial. My channel is suffering because of X or the girls only date chad because he's a douch this that and the third instead of just accepting they're mediocre and make mediocre content that no one wants to watch.
To be fair RUclipsrs like Markiplier make mediocre content but his fanbase( I'm guessing mainly children) eat that shit up. He knows his fanbase.
@@supermal112233 I got a decent circle of people all north of 20 that like him (granted a couple just think he's hot). If he was regular in his upload schedule, did more than 10 minutes of content a day, or actually DID SERIES AGAIN, i think more adults would get behind him.
I'm just a longtime fan from when he was still living in Ohio.
Like most things, success is a combination of earned and unearned attributes. An “incel” generally can solve their celibacy problem, they just don’t because (1) they haven’t optimized what they have and (2) they are too picky. Even so, there is an upper limit. Their fully optimized state might very well be much lower on the totem pole than other men and this will make it so they will probably never be able to date certain women, but that is asking for a level of “fairness” that truly cannot exist outside of game mechanics.
I'm sure that the majority of incels (at least, the "bad" incels) do that, but just like in the case of Avrona, there are many interesting, smart, hot and nice guys who just can't make it because... well, nobody knows. If accomplishments in life were just a matter of following the right steps, everyone could do everything, and I think the message of Big Joel's video is precisely the opposite: sometimes, no matter what you do, your lemon tree just won't grow, you'll never find a girlfriend, your channel will never take off.
Yes! One of the few conversations I’ve had with someone on 4chan was with an incel. I spent way too much time trying to help him figure it out before I realized he wasn’t actually looking to change himself, but was just looking for others to validate his beliefs on how awful women are.
I wonder whether Avrona will see a noticeable bump in subs now that Big Joel's subscriber base has been made aware of him.
Up about 60 subscribers so far 😅
Everyone, subscribe to Avrona (and PewDiePie)!
Tanner Clark don’t subscribe to pewdiepie
I am in favour of making "Subscribe to Avrona" the hot new meme.
@@18tclark I'm not sure if Avrona should have more subscribers...
This Avrona suffers from the Einsteinian definition of insanity, while being an unsettling reminder of how close any of us are to flirting with it at any given moment.
Infinite universe? Probably.
Infinite humanity stupidity? ... definitely.
I literally chose to watch this video because, when I read the title, I suffered one of those "I know what each word means separately but together this is incomprehensible" moments.
I was not disappointed. Great video!
As a small RUclipsr (someone who has been creating videos on and off for the last seven years now, someone who maybe talks a bit too fast and can be hard to understand, someone who doesn't really have a "thing", choosing instead to create content I enjoy rather than something that's consistent or chases current trends and, as a result, still has less than a thousand subscribers) I related hard to this video.
I don't want to be Avrona. I like to think of myself as better, more intelligent and capable of greater things. But this was a bit of a wake up call. Chasing this impossible dream is tiring. You can't just upload content and expect to become someone worthy of attention as a result. It's a strange, meandering journey, one that (for me, at least) has seemingly no end. Thanks for uploading this. It was interesting!
I used to be really into RUclips, uploading 2 videos a week for almost 2 years straight. However, even though I was only getting less than 20 views a video, I was still satisfied with myself. I think the reason for that is because I was making them for myself. I wasn't making videos that catered to popular trends because I thought they would get a lot of views. In my opinion the right mindset for youtube is make content that you enjoy making and that you are proud of, and have no expectations. Then you can be satisfied.
Damn, I can relate so hard. Thanks for the comment.
as another small youtuber i can say the same. Honestly, my take away from the video is just not to lose sight of the enjoyment of making content, regardless of your success.
I am so small that i wont say im even a small youtuber, but i will say that making videos of moments i enjoy is a feeling i really love. And having one person share their love of it is something that is magically for me. I wont say im better than Avrona. I dont really put alot of effort or love in to my videos. But I feel that making them has made my life better.
Congratulations on 1000 subscribers
I liked your content initially because you were talking about things I thought were interesting, then I subscribed after I found that your humor and commentary were consistent. I love the way you're not afraid to explain things in a lot of detail to us and the down to earth way you communicate to the audience. I always watch every new upload!
they had us in the first half
@@cameronrhanna what the heck
@@cameronrhanna shut the fuck up, worm brains
@@babahu15 Is nobody else annoyed by this? Why do Leftwing RUclipsrs need to talk like kids who didn't catch enough beatings yet. Thought Slime's voice is very similar. Lispy with psuedomodest affectations of naivete.
@@cameronrhanna shut the fuck up, worm brains
Nothing is harder than the reality of absolute obscurity. I live there. . Thank you for at the least throwing a little attention Avrona''s way. This is one of the most generous things you can give someone. A little attention.
I’ve been trying to “make it” on RUclips for like three years now and this video caused a lot of self reflection. Thank you for this video.
If you're feeling bad about your RUclips channel. Just think about ProJared for two seconds.
Guys I made a grammar mistake so I guess I'm cancelled.
Can you believe he was on a Nickelodeon show. Hindsight is a bitch
He fucked up so badly I still don't have a firm grasp on it.
What did he do?
Projared's socialblade is overplayed, now James Charles is the new hotness
"Movies are all the same." - Joel, Big [5/11/19]
Make what you're passionate about, not what's trendy.
Even if you don't break through, you'll have enjoyed the journey.
This is just my alt but still thanks :)
This is my conclusion on advice for people in such a position. Do it because you want to do it. If circumstances carry you to celebrity, or if they don't, so be it
lemon trees are governed by mysterious forces, sometimes they do just die, or get sick or w/e. and it is often hard to find out why it's happening. such a weird point to make.
SYC (Small RUclips Culture) needs more BTE (Big Troubadour Energy)
Read that as "Big Trogdor energy" at first and it still works.
@@sleepingdogpro "Big Toblerone Energy"
i dont know why but i burst into tears when you brought up his lemon tree comment
your videos are always super nice and sweet, keep it up as long as you enjoy it
LOVE this analysis. As an artist who's been posting art online since the early 2000s, this kind of struggle, the discourse surrounding it, and the personalities that tend to come out of it feel so familiar. (I made my share of "Why isn't my page getting more views when X artist is doing the same thing?" complaints back in the day.) Would love to see more videos analyzing people's behavior on social media.
“Lemon tree, very pretty, and the lemon flower is sweet,
But the fruit of the poor lemon is impossible to eat.” - The Seekers.
I’ve noticed that, when it comes to creatives (I used to be one), it’s not just _what_ you know, it’s _who_ you know - and all that _that_ entails. Your work can’t do the networking/marketing; that’s a whole other job.
You're not 100% right about lemon trees: it is possible to have an unhappy tree through sheer bad luck, through circumstances out of your control. That's a minor nitpick though. Thanks for another interesting video!
Indeed. Maybe the lemon tree was born disabled.
Btw. my apple tree is having troubles this year and I have absolutely no clue what the reason is. :( It's very sad. Hope it survives.
I mean, trees get diseases too, and all the leaves falling off sure sounds like a sick tree. It can be something as simple and unfair as the tree having good care but just... being sick. Really anything that complex; life or a art media platform, is governed by so many factors that it seems arbitrary because of how many of those are out of your control.
@@johannageisel5390 check the leaves & test the soil. it might have a fungal infection.
@@a-goblin It might very well have. I already tried to identify it, but none of the described symptoms I found for the various apple tree diseases matched.
I don't know how to test the soil. Test with what and for what?
I believe this is another good example to add onto the list of "We don't live in a meritocracy"
RUclips algorithms are always gonna be biased for what the owners think makes them the most money and will forget all the rest.
Thanks for your content Big Joel. much respect
We live in a meritocracy, merit is just handed over differently than we are told.
@@decepticonne There's no such thing as a luck based meritocracy my man
@@Shireke01 please direct me to where i said the opposite in this thread. quickly
@@decepticonne How can you still consider the society we live in a meritocracy if there's so much luck involved, your definition of meritocracy is necessarily wrong
@@Shireke01 who said there was luck involved ? besides you ? your analysis of systems is infinitely lacking if you think there is any luck involved at any level. drop that idea and you might start to get useful ideas out of your ramblings
This sounds like a discussion on capitalism/The American Dream in a nutshell.
Death Of A Salesman 2.0 .
Exactly, this also sounds like a discussion on dating culture specifically tinder and bumble as well, u could just replace the youtube channel with the dating profile, “what am I doing wrong?, do I need to have a better bio? Better pics?”
Alright, you've convinced me. I'm finally going to make that video on why the people who say cereal is a soup are the same people that killed God.
i feel like youtube is the best when its a hobby not when its a job thats why i upload randomly often just gameplay with no voice over not because i dont wanna talk but because its what i wanna make i dont care about my sub count because im not here for that im here for fun and to destress
I just tend to ramble whenever I make a gaming video. I liked listening to lets players talk about their lives, and tell stories, and just ramble. I don't make those that much anymore though.
That's why most of us liked RUclips in the first place.
Honestly I don't really like the new RUclips society. It all feels so forced, even when the channels are somewhat casual. I prefer irregular uploads, because let's face it, most people don't care about a schedule.
I want to watch content that creators want to make when they want to, not something they feel pressured into making for views or money.
I like Simplynailogical for this very reason - She uploads when she wants to, she's herself and does what she wants to in her videos, takes a break when she wants to etc.
She never makes me feel pressured to keep up with weekly uploads, and feels more grounded because she has an actual job as well.
I'm tired of hearing about other youtubers' weekly uploads in their videos, it makes their interest feel a little manufactured.
props to you for drawing interesting content out of the most obscure places on the internet
Watching small youtube channels feels just better and friendlier than bigger channel.
But even though I know that numbers are not something to fixate on, even though I know that intellectually, it feels like my brain just focuses on that when my brain isn't doing anything. Its really shitty. I'm trying to get a hold of that.
This reminds me of a Spongebob episode. In the episode, Krab's daughter gets hungry and Krab gives her all food he can possibly find, but she just keeps wanting more. At the end, Spongebob is able to feed her with just one Krabby Patty. When asked by Krusty, he replies that the secret ingredient was love.
Maybe that's what's happening here too. Avrona doesn't quite love what he's doing and thus can't satisfy the viewers and the algorithm, no matter how hard he tries. It just isn't the right type of effort.
I like to think that all the top creators love their craft, or at the very least, got famous because of the love of their craft (particularly with comedic creators), and people like watching passionate people. gus Johnson doesn't come across like someone who started making skits solely because it seemed like the best social decision, rlm doesn't come across like a bunch of hack frauds who started media criticism videos solely because it seemed like the best social decision, they seem passionate, and this passion leads to better content. avrona doesn't seem very passionate with the craft of making youtube Videos, he seems to be a "get famous by any means necessary" person, and unless you're a Kardashian who got insanely lucky, he will never take off.
I think that’s a very romanticised view. Plenty of people find success doing something they don’t love, and even more will put their heart into something but never get successful.
@@nickchambers3935 I can understand why "top creators" is misleading, but I wasn't referring to success. people cheat all the time, people constantly will degrade themselves and do things that do not make them happy because they think the fame and money is what they need. success is arbitrary and fleeting, great art can only be made by people who care. maybe they create with a mix of ego and attention seeking, sure, that's just human nature. but there's always a component that is driven by emotional fulfillment, making an art that satisfies their artistic needs, in order for great art to be made.
@@nickchambers3935 i can assure you people that do things they love will be longer remembered as "the loved top creator" (for example Markiplier and all those guys that also served as an example in the video) than the ones who don't.
This is a big thing in the art community, too. People going to forums "asking for advice" when really they just want a magic button to pop up that makes them internet famous. It's hard work doing your art AND marketing yourself, playing the algorithms, creating a brand. Wish more beginners understood that.
Honestly, artists can stand to do a better job of helping one another. When someone, for example, is asking "What's a good place to start?" usually all they need is something specific to work on and practice at.
When I was first learning photography, I started simple with just learning how to make my pictures less blurry. From there I was able to ask/learn about aperture, shutter speed, iso, exposure, and practice and improve upon doing different types of photographs. Not to say that I didn't learn a lot from "just practicing", but I was also asking questions and setting goals for myself in order to improve and do specific things.
It is hard work but, in both RUclips and the art world, it’s also an unfair and uncaring system by nature. There’s no guarantee of anything and coming in thinking there’s some sort of direct effort-success relationship is hurtful.
Hi, if i may ask -- what forums and stuff would one go to for advice an whatnot? I myself am wanting to improve but uh.
.oof i never been super active in any community lol
i am a seaman , thank u for making me realize my fate
HEY! 1 year later to remind you... you did it!! ✨
"Movies are all the same..." - Big Joel, 2019
Favourite quote from this video
What an interesting case, Avrona's case is.
I don't think it's possible to ever say what is the "right" way of doing RUclips, but I do know that focusing on results, be them views, subscribers or whatever, is gonna wreck you as a creator. Focus on what you're creating. Focus on improving what you're creating. And focus on making it good. Don't alienate yourself from your own work (where have I heard that before?)
That is the key to success, whatever medium you're using.
*marx* naww
I really think, given the amount of effort most people have put into their first yt videos has stayed the same, that the best, and most sobering piece of advice is,
"the best way to become RUclips famous is to start five years ago."
I challenge you to think of the last time a truly organic video has gone viral- like the Numa Numa kid, Leave Britney Alone, or even (relatively low effort) Nyan Cat.
Unfortunately, RUclips _has_ become oversaturated, and things which may have been instant hits a few years ago are now useless.
Especially with the cross-platform integration (RUclips's algorithm used to be restricted to just the site itself), you simply need a lot more to stand out. Not just views, but Facebook likes, retweets, and shares.
And while that does allow the 'cream of the crop' to rise up and succeed, it also changes what RUclips has become.
Instead of Broadcast Yourself, it's now "pander to VEVO or Jimmy Fallon" (at least until Trump came along- now every video is about him). It's a frightening change.
sometimes i feel like big joel's videos are existential poems in a form of a video essay. and it's beautiful.
Thank you for talking about small RUclips channels. I feel validated and inspired to keep making my videos. 😊❤️ Even tho the ending is pretty sad.
A new video from my favourite objectively hot troubadour? I know what I'm doing for the next 16 minutes and 40 seconds
That's quite a *sublime* way to compliment Joel
I’m always going to enjoy calling Big Joel a hot troubadour
ikr i missed the sweet face and the sweaters, but the animation was somehow better
I know you were nervous about these drawings but I think they’re awesome...the shapes are really good
They are fucking mesmerising. I am just sitting here wondering how he made me feel so much just through stick figures. That lemon tree.... why so cute..........
Joel is hilarious lol.
AVRONA: 300 subs
Joel: “his a small RUclipsd how wants to be big.
me: cry’s in 21 subs.
30 now!
@@janpeke1948 It's all relative! I've seen channels with 10k + subscribers called small. :D
Want advice on getting more viewers or should i go to hell?
@@MuttFitness Advice sounds great
@@RealGameTitan almost all your videos that did well were "how to" videos. The other stuff is too specific and just doesn't have that much of an audience. I suspect if you got rid of the underperforming videos and made more how to videos, then you could double your subscribers in less than 6 months.
It reminds me so much about how romantic relationships actually work vs how teenagers want them to work
honestly that's such a good point. a lot of teens need romance, they think it's what they need to be happy, but romance is more than just hard facts. having a meaningful connection with someone is beyond "top 10 ways to seduce women" "advice" rhetoric. you can't really give advice to someone who's trying to "make it click" with someone, it's more complicated than just a bullet list of tips.
Ok, I'm a teenager in a romantic relationship so now I'm deeply concerned about what this comment meant and whether I might be doing something wrong-
@@quadpad_music No, you're not doing anything wrong. I can't speak for OP but I think they were saying that romantic relationships aren't about an initial spark, a checklist of strategies, or any tips someone can give you. They're more about being your genuine self, pursuing what you want, and putting forth the effort of caring for a connection with someone. That's something you can't get advice about from reddit. The similarity to Avrona is the hope that there is some identifiable factor that will make it work, when there isn't one. I think all OP was trying to say is that you learn this naturally as you go through experiences and get older.
Movies are all the same, it doesn't matter.
-Big Joel, 2019
Yeah, that was funny/weird. Like, someone says, Did you see movie X? And you say, No need; I saw a movie once ;-)
@@KingoftheJuice18 Huh, to me nearly all of them are essentially the same.
This video helped me with something completely un RUclips related
Thank you
I think luck plays a huge part in it. I listen to stuff on r/synthesizers on reddit and post music there, and this guy posted a really cool video that got a lot of attention. The next week he posted a similar video of the same good quality, and it was practically ignored.
I want more viewers, but the harder I work to get views, the more it sucks when it doesn't pay off. I've started just posting my music as soon as I'm done recording without worrying about the perfect timing or perfect thumbnail, and it's way more relaxing.
Great video, Big Joel! Really interesting topic :D
Little Joel video on Big RUclips culture now.
Being an aspiring youtuber must be quite stressful. I'm glad you've amassed an audience here, as your content has quickly become among my favorite on this site. Keep doing you.
I was a little concerned that Joel didn’t show his face in the video because maybe something happened to him or he may have felt insecure for some reason but then he just started singing in the end
No offense to the J, but I actually prefer it when tubers don't show their faces all the time.
I find it disconcerting and offputting.
@@MCArt25 Yeah, I always think "We get it, you're attractive. Don't have to shove it in my face like that."
@@cutecommie I like both those things. Like, this was amazing and I would not want this video to be any other way. But his video essays are better when I get to see him emote while expressing his opinions. Has a conversational feel to it that I really enjoy.
Plus I like looking at attractive people.
Honestly small creator community is really a topic that I think people should talk more about it cuz there's a lot of toxicity, desperation, trying too much and ended up getting depressed or burned out.
I think a lot of bigger creator should talk more about it cuz even though I've been that phase, but now I'm proud what I have although I only got 630 subscribers.
I hope a lot of small creators out there don't give up on your dream and remember passion is your main reason for RUclips.
This is one of the best videos I have ever watched on RUclips. Thank you.
The lemon tree post cut me to my heart.
Wow.
Thank you, Big Joel. You do amazing videos and we appreciate you a lot.
The RUclips algorithm is a mathematical construct that is perfectly logical. It’s goals are knowable and rather simple but the mechanism that an AI has designed are far too complicated for any person to truly understand. This unknowability is what makes something mystical.
Anyone up for a cult of the RUclips algorithm?
Kelby Reid the Algorithm giveth, and the Algorithm taketh away
Praise be unto the Algorithm, great and unknowable
I'm reminded of pigeons in Skinner boxes - given a random schedule for food pellet delivery, they'll develop superstitions, frantically repeating whatever random behavior they were doing just before the pellets got delivered once. RUclipsrs have hazy ideas what will make for exposure, so they'll insist on whatever may be associated with their upticks and avoid whatever may be associated with the downticks.
Sure, quality and passionate work may help, and sure, there's _something_ else theoretically knowable that may help too, and you'd be silly to discount those. (Especially when one of them is all you _can do_ to make a difference.) But after that, there's going to be some stuff that may as well be sheer blind luck.
If it's far too complicated for any person to understand, then how do *you* know that it's perfectly logical, knowable, and simple?
@@KingoftheJuice18 idk about "perfectly logical", but as the OP said, the Algo's _goal_ (at the most abstract level, the thing it optimizes for) actually _is_ knowable and simple: maximize watch time. It just does unknowable things to accomplish that.
...Unless your question is actually, "yes that's the _claimed_ goal of the algorithm as stated by YT, but if nobody can actually tell how it's making its decisions, do we _really_ have any evidence that that's what its goal is?"
Aaaand yeah, no we don't.
It's called the cult of montizon
I like to come back to this video every so often, I love the insights and storytelling, and it feels so comfy to think about how strange people are without falling into hate or disgust. Definitely my favorite Big Joel video.
I love the simple yet expressive artwork in this! It made the video feel so unique and personal.
I always thought that your channel was basically identical to those hundreds of other 'video essay' channels which lie somewhere on the EveryFrameAPainting-immitation-spectrum. The distinguishing feature which causes me to subscribe and look forward to your videos while rolling my eyes at all those hundreds of others is simply that you make more interesting points than the rest.
It's true. Joel fills my brain with new thoughts.
Joel is set apart for me because he tends to make videos about weird topics and makes really unique points that you don’t see coming.
tbh I always thought that having your name in a video was kind of a weird award for being a patron but I felt an overwhelming sense of pride seeing my name in the credits smh (first time I've been a patron of a youtuber).
Congratulations!!!
Your video essays are some of the most compelling I've seen on RUclips. Keep up the great work! I eagerly await your next piece.
Joel, you really knocked this out of the park! What a fantastic video. I love how well it is structured and I how introspective and self-aware you are.
Love your work.
"Maybe take an improv class!"
Improv can help give you thick skin about having 4 people in an audience when the 50 people in the audience from the previous show are out in the theater's bar drinking and congratulating the performers from the well attended show. Meanwhile every is patting themselves on the back about "amazing supportive community" instead of watching your show. So it can really prepare you for RUclips!
(Improv can be a lot of fun, but don't let it ruin your life scrambling to get butts in seats. Probably the same for being a RUclips creator but with eyeballs on screens).
Love the art. The unique obsurd art style is great
Olivia Graber absurd* and I agree 😇
I find it distracting
Avrona's story are incredibly relatable to me. But, not w/r/t having a RUclips channel etc., but because I have autism. The sense of there being some invisible ability which you don't possess and which no one seems to recognise, instead chasing "window dressing" - this is all exactly how I feel trying to interact with the neurotypical and alienated world. This is a petty thing, but you could say the same of Avrona's issue: I've tried to understand things like "how to make friends" and what I get are either snakeoil salesmen selling self-help bullshit, or I find people who just blindly trust some imaginary system by which you can automatically succeed if you do the correct actions.
You described as Avrona as rude, albeit not too judgementally, but I can't even say that about him. When I saw his anger with the same dogmatic "advice" repeated over and over, I saw myself.
This is a really insightful video, and one that’s definitely applicable to other social media, and even just for people who strive for “success” in general. Ultimately fame is just a band-aid over a greater need for acceptance. Like how you explained your feelings of failure over 50k views feels the same as back when you’d get only a few hundred, the numbers really never fill that void. It’s definitely something I struggle with too, and I appreciate your frankness and honesty here. It’s a good reminder of how slippery the slope to unhealthy mindsets is while traversing the internet. (Also I appreciate your doodles. It makes what is otherwise a bit of a grim topic a little more light-hearted.)
Commenting so the algorithm looks upon you more kindly - this was a really interesting video and I'm glad you made it :)
Commenting so that the mysterious RUclips algorithm picks up my “engagement” and recommends these videos to other people.
It worked. His channel got huge.
Thanks for making this! It's always a pleasure to here rational takes that cover many options about subjects quite a bit of us can relate to. This is the first video of yours I've watched and won't be the last!
This is a phenomenal video, honestly exactly what I needed to hear at the moment even though I'm 4 years late. And it helps as well to see now that Avrona is doing fairly well on youtube, evidence that what you talk about is on some level correct. Really great video Big Joel.
only 15 views so far... OOOOoooOoOOOoOoOoOOOO you must have done something wrong OOOooOoOoo0000oOO0oooOOOO
how did you do this??
@@itamarsalhov Pure dedication
Lowell Luke OwO
@@itamarsalhov how did I do what?
Lowell Luke You commented 13 hours ago, but it seems that the video was published 8 hours ago