"Do you realize how stupid you just sounded?" He said to a kid half his age. Reminded me of Matthew 7:2 "...in the same way you judge others, you will be judged.". That kid deserved more grace, and Wilcox needs grace more than he realized at the time. He may be learning the hard way.
I've met with and talked to Brad while I was at BYU, and also when I was a kid because he came to our stake for a youth conference. My impression of him at the time as a TBM was mixed. Because here was this guy who seemed great and was talked about like a mormon celebrity, yet also to me at least didn't come off as genuine. Now, seeing this talk by him but with me having left mormonism for half a decade, I dont know how I didn't see through his and mormonisms act quicker.
I feel that. I took a religion class from him when I was at BYU and all I can say is that he’s a lecturer but definitely not a genuine teacher :/ I never recommended his classes
But that’s not what Joseph Smith said the first time that he told people about this event which actually happened to be many years after the event occurred. He kept changing the narrative and making the story more fanciful as time went on
The way Brad Wilcox mocks those who don't believe is appalling. "Do you know how stupid you sound?" (Referring to a kid who said he didn't believe in Joseph Smith as a prophet). How does inspiration work, calling a guy like this to the General YM presidency who talks to young people like that? I would not want my son or daughter sitting literally at the feet of a man who mocks what the spirit tells them- even if it's that Joseph Smith was not a prophet.
You know who taught the Trinity? - Abinadi. Mosiah 15:1-5. Joseph Smiths view switch over his life time from trinity to godhead. You can see it in the BOM and in the different accounts of his first vision.
John Christopher Thomas, in his book, "A Pentecostal Reads the Book of Mormon: A Literary and Theological Introduction", suggests the Book of Mormon can be read as being Modalistic rather than Trinitarian. Abinadi doesn't need to be Trinitarian.
2:06 Well Elder Wilcox, which one of the first vision accounts are you going by? There are at least four very different ones in the Gospel Topics Essays, in case you didn't know. The one from 1832 doesn't speak of multiple personages, but rather states: "in the sixteenth year of my age,a pillar of light above the brightness of the sun at noonday came down from above and rested upon me. I was filled with the spirit of God, and the Lord opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord." It was a singe personage. (He says he was sixteen) The one from 1835 speaks of two persons and many angels and states: "A pillar of fire appeared above my head. It presently rested down upon me and filled me with joy unspeakable. A personage appeared in the midst of this pillar of flame, which was spread all around and yet nothing consumed. Another personage soon appeared, like unto the first. He said unto me, “Thy sins are forgiven thee.” He testified unto me that Jesus Christ is the son of God. And I saw many angels in this vision. I was about fourteen years old when I received this first communication." (He says he was about fourteen) The one in "Joseph Smith History" says he was fifteen, and gives a much different account of what was said to him by the two personages. It is a bit lengthy so if you're curious you can look it up (and the other accounts for that matter) in the Gospel Topics Essays on the official church website (if you can find them). The one from 1842 says he was about fourteen and states: "I retired to a secret place in a grove and began to call upon the Lord. While fervently engaged in supplication, my mind was taken away from the objects with which I was surrounded, and I was enwrapped in a heavenly vision and saw two glorious personages who exactly resembled each other in features and likeness, surrounded with a brilliant light which eclipsed the sun at noonday. They told me that all religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines and that none of them was acknowledged of God as his church and kingdom. And I was expressly commanded to “go not after them,” at the same time receiving a promise that the fulness of the gospel should at some future time be made known unto me." The point is that the church has only recently made these much differing accounts available to the public, but they are not very easy to find on the church's website.
1. We know from history and by the churchs own admission that there were lots of religious ideas floating around in upstate new York during the early 1800s. Non Trinitarianism already existed before Smith said a word about it. But... 2. Smith DIDN'T say a word about it! At least not at first. His earliest first hand account of the first vision doesn't mention two separate beings: god and Jesus. that idea came about as Smith's theology evolved and later accounts of the first vision reflected these new ideas by including them as part of the vision where they haven't previously existed. Brad is not only banking on the ignorance of his audience, he is flipping the script and accusing anyone with a well reasoned rebuttal, of being blind and stupid.
Bro Joseph smith wasn’t the first one to be nontrinitarian. You forget, the Mormon church was formed during the Second Great Reawakening. New churches and ideas were popping up everywhere and being circled about. And even your definition of the trinity doesn’t account for the many iterations speckled across Christianity. Know your history.
Yeah, that was weird... "Little children signing the honor code"... What? A "little child" is like 2, 3 or 4! He was so incredibly condescending and rude throughout the entirety of his set... Ummm, "talk"🙄.
Let’s see, how many at the founding of the church in 1830 we’re even aware of the first vision??? The event that is now called the greatest event in history none of them knew. The first vision wasn’t even in the missionary lessons until over 100 years after the church was founded. How does that work? Then we have variations of the story that were ripped out and hidden once they were discovered until they got caught. Then it was buried! It was the church’s response to the multiple stories that told me they were lying. It depended on who Joseph’s audience was?? Well hell then why don’t we teach the missionaries today the different variations and depending on the audience we pick which one would best fit!
I feel sorry for him, but honestly people have free will to believe and perceive life however they want. By doing meditation and by going through my own spiritual awakening, my heart has told me that we are all one. Separation is an illusion. We are all parts of god having an experience. Everything around us including ourselves is god’s mind. God experiences himself through us. Why look externally to men or institutions for answers about life when answers can be found within you? No, I don’t think Jesus and god are separate beings. Jeremiah 23:23-24.
Christianity has been in Japan for hundreds of years, about 280 years before the Latter-day Saint church was founded. And the "People believe in Jesus because they believe in Joseph Smith" thing sounds like a strange win from a certain point of view.
There it is, in my opinion the world's greatest heresy of modern times: "The only reason I believe in Jesus is because of Joseph Smith." As for me, I will forever praise God for the testimony of the Holy Spirit who witnessed truth to my heart, mind and soul, the true nature of Our Mighty Triune God.
Already can discount his son’s story in Japan. They definitely celebrate Christmas in Japan. Maybe not the same way, but they celebrate Christmas! Totally fabricated that section of the talk.Not to mention all of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, other Christians in the country.
Old Joe told his neighbor one time there is gold money buried money on his property, but it could not be secured until a black sheep was taken to the spot and led around a circle bleeding with it's throat cut This was necessary to appease the evil sprint guarding the treasure. Joseph money-digging then began! Hahahaha!
Brad, Give me the scriptural references in the bible that tell us specifically that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones. It's interesting that you can even twist our Lord's being to justify a mere man, Joseph Smith. You cannot because the bible specifically tells us that God the Father is a spirit. We also have specific references that tell us that Jesus and God the Father are one. And yes, Joseph Smith did lie. Our wonderful God humbled himself and came down in the form of the man, Jesus to live among us. Peace!
A being is much like a species. A cat is a different being than a dog. Christianity states that Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit are three persons in one being. The LDS church is polytheist. It states that they there many Gods. There is only one being - God. Just like a cat cannot become a dog. Man cannot become god.
How can you speak about experiences you’ve never had yourself? You are projecting your opinion on something you’ve never even experienced. You are also mocking your fellow human beings for believing differently then you. You say the church is for everyone and in the same breath mock so many groups of people. And in front of youth. Do you understand or even comprehend what you Brad are doing? I imagine my child in that audience, one who doesn’t fit your box, and the harm you are causing. It’s despicable. But alas, you are speaking what the church believes; you just did it more blatantly and grossly. Which may be in the people’s favor to see the “doctrine” in plain sight. Brad is the new Karen.
sigh......really? Again another example of a person with no understanding of history. Perhaps he should read about the council of Nicaea in 300AD, were the "nature" of Jesus Christ was debated. Was he mortal? Or Divine? Was he separate from God or part of him? The notion of the separate nature of Jesus from God has literally been around since the beginning of Christianity.
Let me see if I understand here. WE CAN'T SEPARATE JOSEPH SMITH TO GOD AND JESUS? And if you do, hi is gonna make funny of you making funny voices like you are stupid. Really Brad? Joseph is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar away from what Jesus represents to this world! Stop mocking people like you have all the truth and we now don't just because we don't believe anymore. This is so ridiculous!!
Wow! Takes the deity and separates God from Jesus. Okay. And why? Because of Joseph Smith? Profoundly disturbing. The man was a con artist, grifter, disordered personality with a God / Messiah complex preying on women by threatening them, their families and even saying he would die (by the sword of an angel of God?) if they didn't hook up with him? Sick.
@@bradensorensen966 If we take Wilcox's arguments as sound, then what I've put forward here is an equally sound argument. The standard for truth is equally arbitrary. The falsifiability criteria for both claims are pretty much the same. Of course, a critical analysis of Wilcox's claims will show that his arguments are just as unfounded as the claims of the Watchtower Society. Both have many implied premises that need to be substantiated before their arguments can be considered sound.
Keep calling your students stupid, Brad. Winning strategy.
"Do you realize how stupid you just sounded?" He said to a kid half his age. Reminded me of Matthew 7:2 "...in the same way you judge others, you will be judged.". That kid deserved more grace, and Wilcox needs grace more than he realized at the time. He may be learning the hard way.
I've met with and talked to Brad while I was at BYU, and also when I was a kid because he came to our stake for a youth conference. My impression of him at the time as a TBM was mixed.
Because here was this guy who seemed great and was talked about like a mormon celebrity, yet also to me at least didn't come off as genuine.
Now, seeing this talk by him but with me having left mormonism for half a decade, I dont know how I didn't see through his and mormonisms act quicker.
I feel that. I took a religion class from him when I was at BYU and all I can say is that he’s a lecturer but definitely not a genuine teacher :/
I never recommended his classes
Anyone who claims to feel the spirit during any point of this talk has a problem.
This is bad for my blood pressure...
But that’s not what Joseph Smith said the first time that he told people about this event which actually happened to be many years after the event occurred. He kept changing the narrative and making the story more fanciful as time went on
The way Brad Wilcox mocks those who don't believe is appalling. "Do you know how stupid you sound?" (Referring to a kid who said he didn't believe in Joseph Smith as a prophet). How does inspiration work, calling a guy like this to the General YM presidency who talks to young people like that? I would not want my son or daughter sitting literally at the feet of a man who mocks what the spirit tells them- even if it's that Joseph Smith was not a prophet.
So awful
Because Joseph Smith never said that God and Jesus were one. Oh wait he did say that!
What a great loving man to tell someone they were stupid 🙄🙄🙄🙄
I care about god 3 in 1 or 3 separate beings as much as I care about the length of unicorn horns.
Definitely gonna use that haha
You know who taught the Trinity? - Abinadi. Mosiah 15:1-5. Joseph Smiths view switch over his life time from trinity to godhead. You can see it in the BOM and in the different accounts of his first vision.
John Christopher Thomas, in his book, "A Pentecostal Reads the Book of Mormon: A Literary and Theological Introduction", suggests the Book of Mormon can be read as being Modalistic rather than Trinitarian. Abinadi doesn't need to be Trinitarian.
2:06 Well Elder Wilcox, which one of the first vision accounts are you going by? There are at least four very different ones in the Gospel Topics Essays, in case you didn't know.
The one from 1832 doesn't speak of multiple personages, but rather states:
"in the sixteenth year of my age,a pillar of light above the brightness of the sun at noonday came down from above and rested upon me. I was filled with the spirit of God, and the Lord opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord." It was a singe personage.
(He says he was sixteen)
The one from 1835 speaks of two persons and many angels and states:
"A pillar of fire appeared above my head. It presently rested down upon me and filled me with joy unspeakable. A personage appeared in the midst of this pillar of flame, which was spread all around and yet nothing consumed. Another personage soon appeared, like unto the first. He said unto me, “Thy sins are forgiven thee.” He testified unto me that Jesus Christ is the son of God. And I saw many angels in this vision. I was about fourteen years old when I received this first communication."
(He says he was about fourteen)
The one in "Joseph Smith History" says he was fifteen, and gives a much different account of what was said to him by the two personages. It is a bit lengthy so if you're curious you can look it up (and the other accounts for that matter) in the Gospel Topics Essays on the official church website (if you can find them).
The one from 1842 says he was about fourteen and states:
"I retired to a secret place in a grove and began to call upon the Lord. While fervently engaged in supplication, my mind was taken away from the objects with which I was surrounded, and I was enwrapped in a heavenly vision and saw two glorious personages who exactly resembled each other in features and likeness, surrounded with a brilliant light which eclipsed the sun at noonday. They told me that all religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines and that none of them was acknowledged of God as his church and kingdom. And I was expressly commanded to “go not after them,” at the same time receiving a promise that the fulness of the gospel should at some future time be made known unto me."
The point is that the church has only recently made these much differing accounts available to the public, but they are not very easy to find on the church's website.
1. We know from history and by the churchs own admission that there were lots of religious ideas floating around in upstate new York during the early 1800s. Non Trinitarianism already existed before Smith said a word about it. But...
2. Smith DIDN'T say a word about it! At least not at first. His earliest first hand account of the first vision doesn't mention two separate beings: god and Jesus. that idea came about as Smith's theology evolved and later accounts of the first vision reflected these new ideas by including them as part of the vision where they haven't previously existed.
Brad is not only banking on the ignorance of his audience, he is flipping the script and accusing anyone with a well reasoned rebuttal, of being blind and stupid.
Bro Joseph smith wasn’t the first one to be nontrinitarian. You forget, the Mormon church was formed during the Second Great Reawakening. New churches and ideas were popping up everywhere and being circled about. And even your definition of the trinity doesn’t account for the many iterations speckled across Christianity. Know your history.
facts.
The way he refered to university students as "little children" is gross
So true! I thought the very same thing!
Yeah, that was weird... "Little children signing the honor code"... What? A "little child" is like 2, 3 or 4! He was so incredibly condescending and rude throughout the entirety of his set... Ummm, "talk"🙄.
I feel too many members are asking questions and he’s angry about it 🤔😬
Let’s see, how many at the founding of the church in 1830 we’re even aware of the first vision??? The event that is now called the greatest event in history none of them knew. The first vision wasn’t even in the missionary lessons until over 100 years after the church was founded. How does that work? Then we have variations of the story that were ripped out and hidden once they were discovered until they got caught. Then it was buried!
It was the church’s response to the multiple stories that told me they were lying. It depended on who Joseph’s audience was?? Well hell then why don’t we teach the missionaries today the different variations and depending on the audience we pick which one would best fit!
I feel sorry for him, but honestly people have free will to believe and perceive life however they want. By doing meditation and by going through my own spiritual awakening, my heart has told me that we are all one. Separation is an illusion. We are all parts of god having an experience. Everything around us including ourselves is god’s mind. God experiences himself through us. Why look externally to men or institutions for answers about life when answers can be found within you? No, I don’t think Jesus and god are separate beings. Jeremiah 23:23-24.
“Little children at byu “ huh ?
Right, Why is he being so damn condescending to his own students?
Joseph Smith, Jr. was indeed a liar.
Christianity has been in Japan for hundreds of years, about 280 years before the Latter-day Saint church was founded. And the "People believe in Jesus because they believe in Joseph Smith" thing sounds like a strange win from a certain point of view.
This argument is hilarious 🤣 he has no clue how many ridiculous hoaxes are out there
As a Christian, there are almost ne religions further from mine than the LDS one.
So which one of the first vision accounts should we believe then????
There it is, in my opinion the world's greatest heresy of modern times: "The only reason I believe in Jesus is because of Joseph Smith."
As for me, I will forever praise God for the testimony of the Holy Spirit who witnessed truth to my heart, mind and soul, the true nature of Our Mighty Triune God.
Already can discount his son’s story in Japan. They definitely celebrate Christmas in Japan. Maybe not the same way, but they celebrate Christmas! Totally fabricated that section of the talk.Not to mention all of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, other Christians in the country.
I wonder if his son was part of that Japan mission that took people back to their apartment to baptize them on like their first meeting 🤣
Maybe Brad Wilcox' kid needs a big thank you from KFC.
Just letting you know, this video is missing from the playlist.
This makes me so sad.
Old Joe told his neighbor one time there is gold money buried money on his property, but it could not be secured until a black sheep was taken to the spot and led around a circle bleeding with it's throat cut This was necessary to appease the evil sprint guarding the treasure. Joseph money-digging then began! Hahahaha!
Hopefully Brad comes out of the closet soon 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🦄🦄🦄
Right?
@@monongahelacats His wife is digging through the closet, and she's all "Come out, come out, wherever you are!"
@@mylesmarkson1686 I’m wheezing!
i did detect it in his voice
Brad, Give me the scriptural references in the bible that tell us specifically that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.
It's interesting that you can even twist our Lord's being to justify a mere man, Joseph Smith.
You cannot because the bible specifically tells us that God the Father is a spirit. We also have specific references that tell us that Jesus and God the Father are one.
And yes, Joseph Smith did lie. Our wonderful God humbled himself and came down in the form of the man, Jesus to live among us.
Peace!
The baptism story of Jesus in the Bible literally shows Jesus being baptized and the voice of god as separate.
Joseph was a terrible liar. Thank you, Brad.
A being is much like a species. A cat is a different being than a dog. Christianity states that Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit are three persons in one being. The LDS church is polytheist. It states that they there many Gods. There is only one being - God. Just like a cat cannot become a dog. Man cannot become god.
Is Wilcox talking about the pages Joseph F. Smith tore out of old Joe's journal.... He went full cult here, he was bad...
😮
Brad,
I feel sorry for your students because you are teaching them lies!
This guy is crazy! And indoctrinated.
How can you speak about experiences you’ve never had yourself? You are projecting your opinion on something you’ve never even experienced. You are also mocking your fellow human beings for believing differently then you. You say the church is for everyone and in the same breath mock so many groups of people. And in front of youth. Do you understand or even comprehend what you Brad are doing? I imagine my child in that audience, one who doesn’t fit your box, and the harm you are causing. It’s despicable. But alas, you are speaking what the church believes; you just did it more blatantly and grossly. Which may be in the people’s favor to see the “doctrine” in plain sight. Brad is the new Karen.
He loves to do his schtick. It's not funny and I'm guessing half the kids were rolling their eyes the entire time
Great name btw😉😂
sigh......really? Again another example of a person with no understanding of history. Perhaps he should read about the council of Nicaea in 300AD, were the "nature" of Jesus Christ was debated. Was he mortal? Or Divine? Was he separate from God or part of him? The notion of the separate nature of Jesus from God has literally been around since the beginning of Christianity.
i don't think these people are christian
Let me see if I understand here. WE CAN'T SEPARATE JOSEPH SMITH TO GOD AND JESUS? And if you do, hi is gonna make funny of you making funny voices like you are stupid. Really Brad? Joseph is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar away from what Jesus represents to this world! Stop mocking people like you have all the truth and we now don't just because we don't believe anymore. This is so ridiculous!!
Time to flee false Religion.
Wow! Takes the deity and separates God from Jesus. Okay. And why? Because of Joseph Smith? Profoundly disturbing. The man was a con artist, grifter, disordered personality with a God / Messiah complex preying on women by threatening them, their families and even saying he would die (by the sword of an angel of God?) if they didn't hook up with him? Sick.
Joseph Smith said what? God and Jesus were what? Well I guess that depends on which first vision account you read 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
3:38
We "could" go to scripture but..........
He is so awful
The Watchtower Society is God's only true organization because it is the only organization that uses God's true name, Jehovah.
Seriously?
@@bradensorensen966 If we take Wilcox's arguments as sound, then what I've put forward here is an equally sound argument. The standard for truth is equally arbitrary. The falsifiability criteria for both claims are pretty much the same.
Of course, a critical analysis of Wilcox's claims will show that his arguments are just as unfounded as the claims of the Watchtower Society. Both have many implied premises that need to be substantiated before their arguments can be considered sound.
Cringe.
He is a horrible person!
Well stated