What is NSBM and how has NSBM label changed through the years? [OPINION]
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- What the heck is 'NSBM'? What does it even mean? And how has NSBM changed through the years? This is the first part of NSBM-related videos talking about the basics. More will follow.
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![Let's talk about NSBM - part 2 [OPINION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/O_4QFIUPB5Q/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm happy to say that among these many comments most are civil and not waging war, not going ad hominem and whatnot. Thank you for being people with brains. Those who can't make comments in a civil way can just piss off right away. Outright name-calling etc. will be deleted. Thanks for not being a dick. :)
Ad Hominem is generally considered NSBM tho (even if he denies it ;-)
southpole76 Yep. But Such a bad band name :p
If I would start an NSBM band, I'd name it Pecunia Non Olet.
It is very normal to find symbols of the third reich in Black Metal records of the nineties, and hints to nxzi esoteric occultism etc
@@RautaMetal given that NSBM is often designed to directly piss off people, i think ad hominem is a very fitting and self-reflective NSBM band name
@@southpole76 In that respect, sure, but still kinda lame name.
I find it amusing when people are fans of black metal, a genre that 9 in 10 songs is about hating Christianity but then get all sensitive when those bands give the same treatment to other religious groups.
Exactly!
Ik for real..they get all pissy..fukin snowflakes
Grand Belial’s Key 👌🏻
Yeah agreed.I don't agree with the political views of NSBM, but being triggered/offended by it, or trying to cancel people is lame and gay. If you don't like it simply don't listen to it, don't cry about it. I have been listening to extreme metal since the mid 90s as a teenager, never in my life did I think that the metal scene would be filled with so many pussies.
Because it's not about "religious
groups" but immutable race, which people take a lot more personally, especially now.
Jews are an ethnoreligious group.
while i disagree with nazism, i do relate with some of the nationalist and heritage related lyrics
as well as some of the best riffs ive heard are from nsbm
Same here.
I guess. None of the nsbm bands I’ve heard actually click with me that much.
@@RautaMetal have you heard of peste noire? theyre the examples i first think of when it comes to unique black metal
I have some. And seen them live but didn't lile it.
@@sunburnedshirts3724 You like Grand Belial's Key? They have really the best riffs and melodies in all nsbm, i listen to only them and Goatmoon and Peste Noire who are totally unique, i wouldn't even call Peste Noire nsbm, Famine is a provocateur primarily i think, he describes himself as right wing anarchist. And other bands i like - Graveland, Forest, Walknut, Nokturnal Mortum, Drudkh aren't nsbm at all, just few of these guys have ns views, but their music isn't political . Rob Darken said recently that he isn't anymore into NS ideology. But i would find extremely idiotic to hear guys from Poland praise Hitler and Nazi Germany considering they were killed in millions as sub-humans , racially inferior , Hitler wrote in his book how he hates Slavs and he wanted to exterminate majority of them and germanize tiny minority of them
I’m not much of a lyrics-guy I’m just into BM with evil riffs and compositions, so a few nsbm bands may slip through sometimes. But when the ideology takes over the music I lose interest.
Same here, an example for me Havok, they’re not black metal but once they started shoving personal/political beliefs at fans I think a lot of people lost interest
I like NSBM, for the lyrics. Usually, at least in my country, they focus on what they love, and not on whom they hate. They spread pagan values, identity, pride and heritage. But what is noteworthy, most of them reject this NSBM labelling. They are just nationalist and neopagan. If they had lyrics about wonders of NS economy, or they mentally masturbated to genocide, I would not even listen to them. I mean Polish bands like Saltus, Stworz, Gontyna Kry.
same
Especially when it's militaristic. I just find the "third Reich and glory of the Nazi troops" stuff lame as hell. When it's closer to DSBM like Ohtar I'm in.
Yeah
If I like the music, I don't care if it is NSBM or not.
also I listen to many RAC, even though I don't necessarily agree with them. Mostly Polish or Hungarian.
@Patrick Bertlein are you okay with even more directly supporting huge megacorps with the money you spent on whatever device you typed this on?
Are you a supporter of exploiting workers via sweatshops used to manufacture your device, and all the other ways said company might directly harm people, the environment, etc?
@Tread Knought Civilization began in Middle East-Sumer and Mesopotamia. Agriculture was created in Anatolia by Neolitic farmers. Minoans and Mycenaeans introduced what we call Mediteranean civilization and their DNA was not indigenous to Europe. Their art and their autosomal DNA express swarthy phenotype trait. (they were genetically Less European than the modern Greeks). The cultural center in pre historic times was BMAC culture and the subject tested also didn't carry the "indigenous"
European haplogroups, but haplogroups that are predominant amongst Arabs, Egyptians and Phoenicians. Origins of Pre-Greek philosophy are found in China, India and Middle east-Ancient Greeks were aware of that.
The University of Al Quaraouiyine, founded in Morocco by Fatima al-Fihri in 859-was the first university that granted degrees and was the model for the future universities in Europe. Universities that predate it were found in Africa and Asia.
First science is traced to Egypt and Babylon, but the first scientist who applied what we recognize today as scientific method was Ibn al-Haytham in early medieval times.
Concerning the self identification as "white" is pretty new concept and its origins can ironically be found in Arabian texts where they refered to themselves as "white" as opposed to "black" people in Africa (everything before that was more in descriptive contect). They on the other hand had a concept of being "too white" or "too pale" similar to Ancient Greeks who (by Plato) viewed themselves as not too pale nor too dark but in the middle ("honey colored skin tone..." as Plato stated) as an "ideal" (Platos philosophy was that the "ideal" is always in the middle).
As far as Metal goes-it is derivative genre from rock and rock was created by the black people in America.
So you are wrong on all accounts. Or maybe if you believe in some sort of conspiracy than you are right about everything according to yourself-but then you will need to explain all the evidence that contradict your claims and you will need to present your own evidence.
@Tread Knought lol Is that so? That edge-lord schtick may impress your friends, but out here, it just looks fucking embarassing.
@@theman3923 Dude, just look at the type of person you're replying to. He's clearly an oxygen-thief. Do you honestly think he has any rational basis for what he thinks? Rationality is kinda a prerequisite for presenting evidence, and this guy's doing nothing but having an online temper tantrum. There's many descriptors I could use to describe his little UberMensch schtick, but "rational" is not one of them. You're essentially replying to the definition of a skin-head. I dunno if you've known many skin-heads, but I have, and they're typically not intelligent, thoughtful people. An "adult" skin-head is just an edge-lord teenager in an adult's body.
This got me super pumped for the goatmoon interview.
Let’s hope it will be a good one.
Seen them live when they were active, amazing stuff. They did look very hipster so no surprise they were commie. Leftists are cancer though
He landed an interview with Goatmoon?
@Patrick Bertlein Haven't listened to altar of plagues yet. Wasn't aware that wolves were a communist/socialist supporting band though. I thought they were more promoting a rural lifestyle or something along those lines?
Nate Kankelfitz Not yet, but Goatmoon has agreeded to do an intie with me and it’s supposed to take place this May.
NSBM is just a sub genre to me their political agenda has no real if any bearing on me the listener and consumer. I’m a Burzum fan but I always found Varg comedic and baffoonish and I’m black. Life’s too short and too shitty to let political views interfere with your listening pleasure like that
Agreed!
facts
I’d consider myself liberal but I love burzum and satanic warmaster lol
Same here
Burzum sucks. Beherit is much better
I have always seen black metal being more or less as an reactive movement. It started when common culture was still way more christian than nowadays, and as times gradually started to change towards secular and the christian influence started to fade away (to some degree, definitely not that much really), so did black metal reactively grab onto symbols and themes that are considered 'evil' and a taboo in the secular moral code's context. So basically nothing new under the sun, just the same old battle between the so called good guys vs the so called bad guys.
True!
So one day, when Christianity becomes demonized by the masses, Black Metal will start singing gospel. Lol.
@@kassokilleri2ff Pretty much lol.
@@kassokilleri2ff I'm already halfway there. I have more respect for legit christians than d-class "satanic" black metal edgelords. Pagan stuff is better becouse it's not as reactionary
True, they love their role as the black sheep.
Black metal is about following your own path and carving your own fate, not believing some ideology like a weakling. Being weak is the opposite of BM.
Be it religion or any kind of "ism" or judging someone by the color of their skin. Believe in yourself and develop yourself.
Absolutely takeda780. I totally agree with you.
If the individual decides they don’t like different colours of skin then that’s surely their individual right too.Blackmetal isn’t about caving in to moral bullying about race or colour from any side.
Black Metal is not about masturbation, at its core it about rejection of the norm. Right now there's nothing more normal than diversity and inclusion. It's the new Christianity.
NSBM seems like the perfect response.
@@muisicstuffs1164Actually, the complete opposite is true. Diversity and inclusion isn't normal, hence the pushback against LGBT people and immigrants etc. If it were normal, there wouldn't be divided opinions based on bigoted ideology which ironically fits perfectly with evangelical/right-wing Christians - the very thing, as you say, is at odds with the core of black metal.
Let's be honest, there's hate and misanthropy, and then there's actual subliminal or otherwise obvious nazi views or even people in these bands. Listen all you want, that's fine, but at the very least we shouldn't give them money.
@@paid14 So hate and misanthropy is ok, but national socialism is not? Why? Because it prefers its own in group over others?
that's a great video , one of the first time that this topic has been handeled pretty well with no bias
Thanks!
MartinMisanthrope Thanks!
For me, it's about the music first and foremost as well. I enjoy the music of Burzum, Nokturnal Mortum, Grand Belial's Key, regardless of whatever political beliefs these musicians have. I really don't care if it's offensive to others because black metal, at its core, is and should remain an offensive art form. However, I also understand why a venue might refrain from hosting a band if they're alleged Nazis - even if these allegations are completely false (as in the cases of Mgla or Marduk). In a way, this preserves the extremity and controversy of the music. I think a lot of bands labeled as "NSBM" are using those symbols more to promote fear, shock, derision and hate as a way of indirectly preserving black metal the way they want it to be. What better way to keep mainstream audiences away than to slap a swastika or the word "aryan" on the back cover of your album?
Yep. Well said. I have talked about the subject too.
Nice, if you play any of those bands in my neck of the woods we will send your mortal remians to Azazel. Die goy.
If the lyrics are nazi stuff I'm not listening. Burzum is not about that stuff so I listen to it even though Varg is a piece of shit.
Nokturnal Mortum has created some of the best black metal ever
For me, the Line is crossed when the music itself is used as a vessel for right wing ideology. MGLA for example have always been accused of being nazis because of their close ties to Mikko Aspa, but the music and imagery of the band itself has never been political afaik.
Now Bands like Goatmoon are a different story. Not only are they all horrible musicians that make really crude, badly played black metal, but they're literal Nazis who use their music as a means to spread their ideology.
Curious thing is that most of the bands labeled as NS, don't have nothing to do with nazism or political propaganda at all. The vast majority of these "tags" are consequence of personal opinions / behavior of the people behind the music living their private life. If we start to research the lives and ideologies of each member of each band we listen to, and keep only with the ones who we agree 100%, there'll be nothing left to listen to.
Yes
I've seen idiots label bands like _Alcest_ as NSBM all beige Neige was in Peste Noire.
That's what you get for listening to any leftist idiot,they are always uneducated and live on assumptions and feelings.
Why you think not a single leftwing goverment raised society throughout history ?
it is always the right that build things the right created societies technology everything we got is because of hard working man since the dawn of mankind.
@@AtrocityEquine01 Then is their Cambodian bassist nazi too because he was in Peste Noire too. Famine is nationalist, troll and provocateur but isn't a nazi
If you have nazi opinions, and openly associate with out and proud nazis, you are one
What NSBM is? NSBM is one of the greatest subgenres of black metal.
"Black Metal is about hatred and intolerance. No fucking compromises!"
Absolutely right man!! And it shouldn't matter if the hate is directed towards race or religion or whatever because its all hate and it all has a rightful place in black metal!!
Most metal bands say they want their listeners to kill themselves, if that's the case how is that national socialism, its kinda the opposite
@@devilinthedarkness4830 lol fucking what
@@wintergilman5331 so black people can make black metal anti white? since it's an anti-race style, this can be ambiguous don't you think?
@@Jorgeh3nriq96I think it's more about hating mainstream society, and general misanthropy than hating specific groups of people,but everyone has their own views, so in theory yeah they could do just that.
NSBM isn't going anywhere. If anything, the rise of far left viewpoints(muslim migration and little border concerns) combines both religious and nationalist concerns, so it'll likely only continue to get more common. As someone who listens to music for music and not ideology, what concerns me is the justified violence from thoughts/opinions regardless of action. The argument that NSBM causes racism or is the reason for perpetuated racism in capitalist countries is...for lack of a better pun, absurd. And I do not think any trajectory we're on currently is one that will result in less extreme viewpoints. Anecdotal, but I was called a racist yesterday on FB for criticizing sharia law. Not muslims, but specifically sharia law, under the argument that it is a "sacred and misunderstood justice system with falsehoods put forth by racists". If that's the current attitude from the left, then NS will become significantly larger.
That sharia law critique and being called "racist" because of that is absurd indeed.
@@jva4120 Not nowadays though.
I was called a Nazi and a Commie in the same thread haha
I like music from far left and far right bands. Good music is good music
So you think NSBM exists as a reactionary phenomenon, sustained by the opposite viewpoint. Interesting, considering that’s what black metal was to begin with.
@@jva4120 Google, Facebook, Twitter, Macy's, Starbucks, Gillette, and so many others prove otherwise.
I'm starting to lose my hair....guess I'm a Nazi in progress.
Yep. All bald older folk are nazis according to the latest biology report!
@Simon Being a wannabe-nazi you mean?
Involuntary Skinhead!
ruclips.net/video/Wbmh5pvFWRo/видео.html
Real Skinheads hate Nazi Boneheads
Same mate i heard burzum for 5 nanoseconds and i noticed hair loss
I like NSBM as in Graveland, Nokturnal Mortum, Hate Forest, Kataxu, Fanisk and those mighty finish bands. It has become a really "black metal thing" to not be part of the massive virtue signalling morons. Also Mexico and South America has a huge NSBM scene. Because NS is for any nation in his own.
🤘🏻🍻well put! Sláinte 🇮🇪
Totally agreed!!! 🥃🥃
Satanic Warmaster and Storm
How about Marduk and Goatmoon ? i like these two allot.
@@KimchiYeo Marduk isn't nsbm , they just sing about ww2 , Goatmoon is nsbm but not to extreme , mentioned bands like Satanic Warmaster , Nokturnal Mortum, Graveland, Hate Forest, Drudkh are nationalist, not nsbm , nsbm are shitty musicians like Absurd and Der Sturmer
If people are actually living their lives according to the bands or music they listen to, then that shows one more thing wrong with society. Most times, I don't even really listen to the lyrics of black metal music. I like the mood it creates, I like the instrumentation, I like the vocals. I don't use it as a reference for how to live my life.
Nirmal Varma well said. If anything I like the feeling of getting ready for war it gives.
there is "one more thing wrong with society" because people don't want to listen to or support nazis?
@@spellman007 I was not talking about people that don't and don't want to listen. I was talking about the ones that do listen. Digression is a wonderful tactic.
@@spellman007 It's called free speech. If you hate free speech then move to China.
I view NSBM as a very self-contained thing. It is a rather small scene with no relevance to the general (black-)metal scene. While crossover points exist, there is no real danger of widespread contagion to the metal scene.
I also separate the person(s) behind the music with the actual artistic expression. Varg Vikernes is the prominent example. But even mainstream figures like Michael Jackson come to mind. If the artist doesn't use his music for specific on the nose political messaging, I don't care. To stay with Varg/Burzum: I don't think about the person Varg Vikernes when listening to the Filosofem album. I just listen to the Filosofem album and I have my own, personal reaction to it.
Exactly.
Well put
it wouldnt be a 'danger' anyways. it would be something positive.
It might not be relevant to the genre, and I don't think anyone who is actually interested in BM thinks that it's really important. For me, the issue is completely disconnected from music, and is much more simple:
I won't give money, or support, or visibility to people who want me (or people I love) dead. I won't give money to people who will draw attention and give importance to ideologies who want me dead. I won't give my money to people who will use it to support those ideologies.
Maybe to you it's just a non issue, but to a lot of people it can be a matter of life and death if these ideologies gain visibility and support.
@@xisotopex what wouldn't be a danger?
the best 17 minutes and 46 seconds of my life. this was beyond helpful for someone like me who is trying to understand it
Wow, that's a big compliment! Thanks.
The first black metal bands I ever listened to were NSBM when I was a teenager in the late 90s. I was into Oi/RAC before that. Being a 'minority' it seemed edgy at the time...
That's a nice video, I like it, there is a very important point to be made here with what you said. While I totally understand the appeal of having NS related content in your lyrics when it comes to BM, given it was such a dark time in history filled with death, war and despair, there needs to be a clear cut to enjoying such things as a theme in music and actually celebrating and believing in it. In reality there is just no way BM and the NS ideology would ever fit together. You would instantly have secret police showing up to those concerts, I'm pretty sure Hitler was not to fond of satan, freedom, worshipping the occult or paganism. Don't even mention long black hair and pale skin or tattoos, these are not particularly arian looking if you ask me.
Fully agreed with you.
Exactly!
Good comment. Bit of a difference between documenting a dark period in history which can and does sit well with BM and extolling the very ideologies that brought about the darkness. I'm also all for taking positive pride in one's culture and heritage but not when it disparages and demonizes other's culture and heritage and why I can't get on with NSBM, NSHC or White Power punk/Oi!. That is not to say that there are no decent bands on a musical level in those sub-genres and some I do listen to for their not so political compositions. I give the real hate filled bands a very wide berth even if the music is appealing and apply the same criteria to the far left. Some Red and Anarchist BM bands are o.k. but most I've heard are Johnny come lately crust punks jumping on the bandwagon for primary counter political reasons and whose playing abilities are sorely lacking.
Hitler was definitely into the occult. Everything else is spot on.
Yea i agree, nowdays even if you mention anything patriotic, nationalist or even if you obviously just want to provoke with your songs, you will be labeled as NSBM. For example calling Burzum NSBM is totally nonsense. Burzum has nothing to do with NSBM, lyrically or musically. Varg has some views that are about european culture and heritage and paganism and pride about it, but it is not NS. Its actually very far from it. Peste Noire is also not NSBM band. Famine just like to provoke people. And so on, so many bands like Graveland, Nokturnal Mortum, etc... are all labeled wrongly as NSBM. Absurd is NSBM band. M8l8th is another one. Musically and lyrically. My personal opinion is that politics, no matter what side, has no place in black metal. Black metal is anti-political in its core. Also i am not judging anyone, i like all black metal if its quality one. Does that make me NS too? Of course not.
NSBM fits more as a title for provoking and anti-PC bands than followers of National Socialism indeed.
Agreed with you, Adi.
Ah yes, Varg and his ideas. Anyone calling him a nazi has no idea what they are talking about. Varg seems to be a pagan revival survivalist homesteading type of dude that seems to love isolation. There is no indication he is into the idea of government at all. Nazism and other forms of socialism relies on a massive overblown centralized government that controls all industry and infrastructure. Hm.... seems like what many modern day politicians these days yearn for
anyone trying to argue that varg is not at nazi is a nazi sympathizers.
@My heart is a fedpost respect, that must have been hard to type with varg's boot down your throat!
I'm really glad you covered the subject. I have very specific lines that I draw with NSBM, but it is a bit difficult and involved to explain very easily or in a few words. It isn't black and white. Very cool you pointed that out! I personally respect your opinion and position even though we may be slightly different. Ironically I think I heard Hoest of Taake say it best in an interview, that black metal is a genre in which the taboo is open for expression. So much could be avoided if people just did a little research too. Great video!
Thanks!
Absolutely, Taake and Mgla were accused of being ns, then played gigs in Israel)
Believe it or not one can listen to NSBM without following/believing in their ideals. Most fans can separate the art from the artist.
Exactly
Though as well nazis may seek out nsbm just like i am seeking out rabm because it is cool to find a style of music you like wich corelates to your political opinion especially if you are very political
This is the most ive heard a Finnish man speak haha
Yep. I’m not the typical Finnish guy.
Reilu meininki;)
Very well put, I've been accused of being "nazi" because I have a few nordic rune tattoos and listen to black metal from people in the past and I wish they would watch this to educate them.
Thank you. That's what I hope to do: teach people that world isn't black and white.
Comparing Jewish people from ghettos forced to wearing the star to black metal musicians who have to "suffer" the criticism for their politics is just not serious at all...
It's good and important video but I missed the reasons why some people and groups are fighting nsbm.
Nazis do not respect humans rights and that's why I don't cry when some bands are cancelled because of having a nazi member.
Yeah, if they wage war, of course they have it coming for them. Then again, that's why many non-political band pose as NSBM - to get more attention and to seem more "evil".
waaaaaaaaah those poor innocent jews
This is my first time seeing your channel. Great content. It is nice to hear about BM without hearing, "but you shouldn't listen to this band."
Thank you. Welcome on board. I hope you like my interviews, too.
As I've been saying, the new satanic panic is the fascist panic- people are jumping to extreme conclusions for symbols or associations used, bands getting cancelled for being accused of being something they're not.
And I don't see the issue with a band being full of card carrying nazis if they don't actually express those views as a band, and honestly, even if they were I don't really care; political extremism is cringe and gay, but extreme music is going to (and should) atteact those who wish to express extreme ideas. Most of the time it's just to be edgy and shock people anyway, much like the satanic panic of the 80s, most of these people just do it because the culture has swung so far to the left, it's one of the only ways to be really subversive of expectations and shocking.
There is a strong sense of malaise in people who don't care about politics getting sick of the far left crap getting pushed everywhere, and just actively want to upset and anger these people.
Yes, kinda like that. I remember how early 2000’s quite a few bands pushed the shock button with various symbols without actually giving a damn about those ideologies or political views.
I am not NS, just an ethnic nationalist. I have no problem with Jews as long as they live in Israel (Palestinians should have a state as well). I am a big fan of Roman Saenkos music and he is put in the NS category.
I like the drums in most death black nsbm rock punk country . Really. I couldn't care less about lyrics or imagery.
In a time where hating on Christians has become the norm it's only natural for bands who still want to provoke to pick up NS aesthetics. People outraged about that never understood Black Metal in the first place.
Hm. I would still say that Christians represent the majority of population in the western world and including Russia, too.
If the the only reason to go for NS is to "be something else than mainstream", then BM could as well be about veganism or teetotaling.
@@RautaMetal He’s got a point though; sing about burning churches all day long and nobody will care (OK, maybe in a few countries like Poland or Russia but certainly not within the black metal community). Make one song about burning mosques or synagogues and you will be instantly labeled as an extremist.
Hitler and National Socialism or Fascism are some of the very few topics that still have a potential to shock and offend. It’s not 1995 anymore when people protested against Marilyn Manson for being a “Satanist”.
@@vegard3940 Sure.
But black metal is supposed to be more than just shock rock.
@@RautaMetal Let’s put it this way; the percentage of people within NSBM whom I would consider serious National Socialists is about the same as the percentage of people within black metal whom I would consider serious Satanists.
Not everyone who puts a pentagram or an inverted cross on the CD worships Satan (even though there are bands that do) just like not everyone who puts a Totenkopf or a photo of Auschwitz on the CD worships Hitler (even though there are bands that do).
The only difference is that nobody will care about your pentagram while the Totenkopf will instantly get you banned from 90% of distros, shops and streaming services.
@@vegard3940 well said! Agreed.
I never met a Finn that wasn't introverted. Great people you all are. I'm Norwegian heritage/Irish.
Well, you have once you have met me!
@@RautaMetal that I did 🤘🏻
NSBM is just black metal for me. As long the music is good, I’ll support the band. It’s all art to me 🔥
Till this day, “Finnish Steel Metal” is one of my favorite albums. Hopefully you can get an interview with Blackgoat.
Recyclops Finnish Steel Storm*
Recyclops agreed. I don't even use the label NSBM...as it is Black Metal for me.
Do you support it if the lyrics are racist, antisemetic or anything like that?
Here in Germany, that topic of course is very sensitive and specific signs are illegal. I like nsbm for the music and couldn't care less about the lyrics. I don't have to agree with what the band is saying. The same with very left bands. It's quite sad that bands like Taake or basically every band nowdays gets accused to be a nazi band.
Exactly. Like said I can enjoy Napalm Death and some "righty" band the same day. Though I don't really find nsbm bands very good musically.
Sucks for Germany being far more authoritarian than my shitty country Canada
He ich finde Deine Aussage schon echt heikel!!!
Man kann doch die Bands nicht unterstützen nur weil man die Melodie geil findet und dann noch sagen ja im Grunde ineressieren mich eure politischen Texte nicht! Das gilt und da stimme ich Dir zu für rechte und linke Bands! Black Metal hat nichts mit politik zu tun und genau durch Bands wie Absurd ist die Scheiße passiert das sämtliche Symbole verboten sind (z.B Runen) Und ja auch diese Band hat der deutschen Szene nicht gut getan! Ja es kann nicht jede Band in eine Ecke geschoben werden richtig aber wenn sie politisch motivierte Propaganda macht, dann ist es eine riesen Scheiße . Meine Meinung...Grüße...
Hey I think your statement is really sensitive !!!
You can't support the bands just because you think the melody is cool and then basically say I'm not interested in your political lyrics! That applies and I agree with you for right and left bands! Black Metal has nothing to do with politics and it was exactly through bands like Absurd that the shit happened that all symbols are prohibited (e.g. runes) And yes, this band didn't do the German scene well either! Yes, not every band can be pushed into a corner properly, but if they do politically motivated propaganda, it's a shit. My opinion ... greetings ...
Tacitus NCK Ich kann deine Meinung schon nachvollziehen allerdings finde ich, dass man die Freiheit hat über das zu schreiben was man will. Wenn man bestimmte Themen verbieten würde, wäre das Zensur. Jeder sollte für sich selbst entscheiden, ob er das moralisch vertreten kann oder nicht. Ich habe auch nichts gegen Leute, die die Cds und so kaufen. Wenn man die Musik gut findet, dann möchte man ja, dass die Band die finanziellen Mittel hat mehr von der Musik zu produzieren. Ich persönlich habe keine Cds von Nazi Bands oder ganz linken Bands.
This reminds me about an interview with Marduk, which I reed in the Metal Hammer magacine when their album “Panzer Division Marduk“ was released. Marduk clearly denied to be NSBM. Last year some shows in Germany were cancelled because some “heroes“ of the ANTIFA announced attacks on the clubs. They reasoned those attacks with connections between a member of Marduk and a member of a NSBM-band. Insane imo. I heared a lot of Marduks' music. Still I haven't found any lyrics that sound right winged for me. Actually I think, black metal is far too chaotic to be a serious part of the NS-movement. You can't march when a 240~250 bpm drumblast blows straight into your mind. You have to headbang! No matter how long your hair is ;)
wasn't the controversy with marduk about 1 or 2 members of the band ordering litterature from a national socialist website? nordfront.se in this case.
@@filiplofgren8023 No, that's another one. I can't remember exactly but I think it was about a tight connection to Mgla or Deus Mortem.
@@kenk9130 Heil Nordfront!
They denied it because they still gotta make money,but anyone who matters doesn't give a fuck and would still support the band.
Marduk is fucking sick and i love that album allot.
@@filiplofgren8023 Yes that was the case with Marduk, A hacker claimed that the IP adress matched their home in Sweden. But the date it was bought was when they were on tour. If i remember correctly. So i have no idea. In the end it's just a claim by a hacker.
No direct offence, but we shouldn't apologise for anyone spreading racist messages because the music is fun - that needs calling out and condemning
There are no rules in Black Metal. In the early days there was no need for the label NSBM because Black Metal WAS that extreme and underground. With the commercial bands (Dimmu Borgir, Cradle of Filth etc.) Black Metal became "just another sub-category of Metal" for a lot of people. NSBM was born. I dont care for personal opinions on politics but I understand the martial aspect and faustian character that is lying in NSBM. In the end, the feeling in music and lyrics is important.
no rules in black metal! ( but we get really bitchy and turn into piss babies any time someone brings up deafheaven )
I've heard worse bands related to BM than Deafheaven.
@@RautaMetal try every NSBM band for starters!
@@spellman007 :D
Ahhh good ol NSBM. How can one not love a Nice, Sunny, Beautiful Morning!
Ha!
Well stated, but let’s be honest. The real problem is those “journalist”. People still have misconceptions of DSO, MGLA, Taake. We have to debunk the false narrative and support our artist as well when they get attacked with click bait titles.
I’m with you to the bitter end, Rauta. The worlds need to learn to agree to disagree.
Aye. Those wannabe rumor journalists are problematic. Metalsucks is a good example: no real journalists go by fake names.
And we'll put: people need to lean to "agree to disagree".
Thanks!
@@RautaMetal no "REAL" black metal musician goes by fake names... oh wait, that's not true they all call themselves something terribly cringe like Werewolf88. lmao.
Wehrwolf Spirit I never said apologizing was an option.
@@spellman007 Right because pop musicians don't name themselves cringe worthy names
@@deathevokation1017 nothing will ever be as cringe inducing as full ass grown men putting on "corpse paint" & calling themselves wehrwolfgöat666.
Nationalism got nothing to do wit "hating" some Hebrews, Nationalism means loving the Purity of nature loving your traditions and mostly loving your Homeland, the place of ypur birth.
I know. A lot of ppl don't know this.
Great video, it’s good to hear a nuanced opinion without just virtue signaling or hating people you disagree with.
I’m way too individualistic and stubborn to do virtue signaling :D
Politics don’t belong in black metal, period. I like your take on this subject.
Thanks!
Megadeth is not metal then :000
@@user-hj7pj6qj5o ?
There are openly communist bands out there like like Goodspeed! You Black Emperor (different genre, but it’s an example) and nobody bats an eye. I enjoy their music, but I also enjoy acts like Burzum. Unsurprisingly, only one of them gets censored and ridiculed. It’s pure hypocrisy. The very people who claim to be against bigotry are literally extremists, just on the opposite end of the political spectrum. I’m sick of the moronic SJW’s in the art/music world dictating what the rest of us can enjoy.
Burzum is not NSBM. You can not find politics in Burzum's lyrics. You should differentiate Burzum from Varg's political ideas. They are two different things.
Agreed
If an artist has an extremist ideological outlook that I can't countenance but it's not overtly promoted in the lyrical content and I actually like the music, I will listen to it. Also, a member in a band with dodgy views or at one time held such does not necessarily make the band dodgy. Personally, I choose to eschew bands who are pushing an outright political message at variance with my general libertarian outlook but I've got no time whatsoever for cancel culture and modern day witch hunting. Yes, I hate racism and Nazism but I loathe the woke cultural Marxist regressive left too.
Pretty much the same here for me, too. And like I keep saying: I don't hear political nuances in the actual riffs or drum beats: there are no Hitler fillls or Putin guitar leads. It's "just" music.
NSBM is something that I like..it resonate with my inner self so much..sorry if I offended someone..I dont care:)
Being honest is enough for me!
It’s the kind of music we need.
Bruh it's just music lol. So many people look sideways about any kind of Christian Hate Ideology or War Themed black metal. "It's racist, it's hateful," blah blah blah. I in fact love the people who whine about someone liking bands like Burzum or Deathspell Omega. It's music I find inspiration in as well and i value the power of the sound.
Yes, I'm aware of that, but many people (not saying most) don't think it's "just music". That's why we are even having this kind of discussion.
I have just started listening to metal again and I can only listen to NSBM, for spiritual and political reasons. I will sub your channel and watch your videos. thank you
Thanks!
Isn’t it odd how musical projects based on national socialism are so forbidden whereas movies based on national socialism are acceptable to be shown in movie theaters?
Yes. It is odd. But then again we're talking about metal subculture which is an easy target to fight. You can have these topics in books, movies and video games - which are by far bigger then music. Now, it makes me wonder, could it just be that it's way too big for the naysayers to fight? So maybe that's why they target the bands instead of directors and producers?
Movies vilifying "Nazis" - a term not used till the 1970s - are acceptable. Anything made in Hollywood automatically goes through Hasbara censorship.
Mate, come on! There's a HUGE difference between movies which depict the horrors of Nazism and neo-nazim in a historical or social sense, and music which actively promotes and celebrates the hateful aspects of being a nazi.
@@Syklonus Hollywood movies depict horrors of Nazism, NSBM depicts horrors of Nazism, both are artistic homo sapien expressions. Just because you express something doesn't always mean you promote it or live it. Are bands or movies that are based on serial killers promoting murder in a substantial way?
At the same time, one could say that Hollywood seems to promote violence against anyone who is similar to a German from the 1940's. How is that not just as bad as the way you view NSBM? It sounds like your just picking sides.
@Jxn Jxn they were the bad guys. Why the hell do you think we were the good guys?
Only because the other side was so fucking evil 😃
Burzums first couple albums were the bee's knees.
Expression meaning the best
Also check out the book "Wolves Among Sheep" for an in depth look at the history of NSBM
Yes and the book naked among wolves!
It tells a lot!
greetings
Why do NSBM losers keep comparing themselves to wolves? They are more like a ratty silverfish bug that hides in the closet.
@My heart is a fedpost thank for proving my point that nsbm fans are about as mature & intelligent as teenage boys who just watched fight club for the first time.
@My heart is a fedpost "YoU'rE gAy" LMAO. OK NAZI!
@My heart is a fedpost You do get that "gay" isn't an ansult among people who aren't homophobic, right? It only triggers your kind.
As a Jewish person from Israel I listen to NSBM a lot, don't get offended and even find some of its lyrics interesting, although most times I only enjoy the music itself.
Many people here in Israel get offended by people like me who do listen as if it's some sort of sin or self discrimination / hate - but I prefer putting this aside and just enjoy music, doesn't matter if it's NSBM or not 🖤
Thanks for the input, mate. Appreciated to hear these.
Bro they literally glorified the nazis who murdered 6 milion of your race, how can you listen to them? And im also a jew from Israel and my great grandmother was a holocaust survivor, it's really sad that you support this music.
if the music is good i can careless what the ideology is. Anyway, Rauta you're the man.
Cheers, mate!
I love this channel man,so insightful.
Thanks! Glad to hear.
Whoever dislikes NSBM because it sounds too offensive, or extreme, is obviously listening to the wrong musical genre. You'd be better listening to some Rap music, or Pop, some crap like that...
Sure. Though there's a lot of rap that is more openly offensive than nsbm.
Rap comes from Flyting.
Yes and you are of the wrong planet! I hope for you the NS people life on the dark side of the moon. Get a rocket and leave the earth! Thank you ...
@@MrDarkThorn Ok, have you listened to your Maroon 5 today already?
@@Ein_krieger Okay its quite better than Absurd!
One of the issues we have here in the US is that there are quite a few metal scenes are miserable with open Neo Nazis and many more that don't oppose them and these fools are totally welcome to attend shows with no hassle. A lot of pagans here also are either white nationalists or provide cover and make excuses for them instead of distancing themselves. I've talked to quite a few people in different parts of Europe who've also said the same. So for some people from this context it's kinda difficult to separate the Nazis and Nazi apologists from the apolitical BM bands, especially if they aren't very familiar with BM and know everything about each band (something that can be hard given how obscure a lot of bands are intentionally). It becomes almost an inevitability that wherever Nazis exist free of resistance, people will associate that space with Nazis and unfortunately many metal scenes and venues have been labeled just that for that reason. If BM gets entirely linked with NS nerds it'll be the death of the genre in my opinion. RABM was a response to NSBM so I don't think it's fair to even compare the two even though I don't care for many RABM bands if I'm honest. But the good RABM bands I've found have found ways to integrate old school BM vibes and lyrical subject matter into their music instead of just being punk lyrics with BM music lol
Maybe it's easy for you because if they had their way you'd be fine, but for those of us who are the targets of their hate, we don't have that luxury even if we can overlook their goofy, LARPy lyrics. Most everyone I know, left, right, center or apolitical, opposes fascism. And given that the world is literally on fire, becoming less free by the day, tyrants are popping up everywhere and nothing can change simply by screaming into a computer to make music almost no one listen to (like all the music I listen to 😂), it makes no since to not be political. It's kinda pathetic to see so many people whine about the world then do nothing to change it. We know how fascism turns out, we know how Leninism turns out, we know how social democracy turns out, we know how liberal "democracy" turns out, they've all been miserable failures and the cause of the misery. Crying in corpse paint alone won't change anything, therapeutic yes, change...never once. But my connection to BM was always from my hip hop roots that quickly went to punk/hardcore when I met some squatters who schooled me and then put me in tune with crust, powerviolence and grindcore which inevitably led to crossover bands like Iskra which lead to straight BM. So I'm definitely biased 😂 Down with fascism, I will not be a victim!
Thanks for the comment. This clearly proves how different things can be in different parts of the world.
In Finland most metal bands are not political at all and despite having a strong extreme metal scene here, most bands have nothing to do with NSBM - even if some people claim to be that. In the end NSBM is very marginal over here. It might be loud, but it's still only "a handful of people".
@Tiger Style totally agree with you. I appreciate you sharing your opinion. I'm from Brazil and maintaining apolitical positions here sounds absurd to me because of all the concerns with the aftermath of our current political climate and its consequences especially for the minorities and for the poor. Anyways, I found very interesting how you mentioned your hip hop and punk music roots and I'm very interested in hearing about the RABM bands you enjoy, if you wouldn't mind taking the time to share the band names so I can look into them. I'm not that familiar with this subgenre and it would be nice to look into some bands I might like because of their approach/references. It's easier to get to know things we like or are interested about. Thanks in advance :)
Great video and cheers to you for having the balls to confront this issue without bias. Full disclosure I’m not a National socialist nor is my band, but the things you bring up in terms of folks being ‘cancelled’ simply because they may use Runes as part of their logo or artwork or perhaps they worship the Norse pantheon of God’s is completely idiotic. It’s laziness on the part of the people who want to label bands as such. In my opinion, the whole problem with this is that people cannot seem to have a nuanced conversation any more. Too many black and white thinkers out there. So, anyway keep up the great videos! 🤘🤘
Thanks for the comment and glad to hear you understood my point. I know I had to be a bit ballsy to make this video, but it is what it is - can’t always choose the safe and nice path.
I’m really relieved to notice most of the comments under this video are actually really civil in nature. I was expecting a lot worse.
Alba gu bràth Very well said. I've started to feel most Americans don't deserve bm in the first place.
Obviously, because Runes in first place doesn't belong and never belonged to Nazis. You can perfectly support paganism and asatru and those kind of thoughts without being a fucking Nazi.
You made a ton of great points here.. I agree with you across the board! Wish people would understand that black metal is, and always has been a fundamentally oppositional, and anti-everything genre. And I too don't really feel it's a good genre to express extreme political opinions. Nazism is, as many black metal musicians have expressed, not compatible with an entirely misanthropic ideology often found in black metal. It (NS) fundamentally concerns hierarchy within human society and when a band is expressing a highly Satanist, anti-human point of view, expressing political viewpoints doesn't really make sense since their views of Satanism often transcend and transgress human society. It makes zero sense for them to be boxed into the NSBM tag which in the mainstream media is completely meaningless.
Furthermore it does make sense for a guy like Hoest to paint a swastika on his chest for shock value, considering part of walking a left-hand path of misanthropy is a disrespect and a disregard for societal expectations and taboos. It was basically a big "fuck you" to the country he was playing in, but was in no way an expression of being a neo-Nazi. And then the PC crowd will point out "but he also made hateful statements about Muslims therefore he's an Islamophobe!" Well he's known to be extremely anti-religious....that includes the Muslim religion, just like everyone else in black metal and almost the entire fandom. So to those I ask what's your point? Islam, like Christianity, is an oppressive ideology which deserves harsh criticism and dismissal.
Bottom line, black metal is not and never should be a place for safe spaces and coddling.
Thank you - and also very well said there.
Indeed: being pro-society (NS) doesn't fit well with BM (anti-society) even if we could see that hate (including racism, bigotry etc.) would fit with misanthropy. But NS is much more than "just" racism, or misanthropy. Also, NS is way less than misanthropy or being "beyond human".
Secondly, Hoest point you make makes total sense indeed: shock value in one place, but that's it. Also, islam is a religion not people. And people often confused this like saying "if you're anti-Islam then you're anti Arab/Persian" which is like saying "if you're anti-Christitian, you're anti-white" - like seriously what the actual fuck?
Well, we seem to agree :)
@@RautaMetal yeah!! And yeah I really get annoyed how if you criticize any religion other than Christianity you're being a racist or "intolerant." Yet you can sing songs all day about destroying Christianity, killing the Christian God and tormenting him in hell. But say one cross word about Islam or Judaism and you're a racist piece of shit. I think some groups get labeled "Nazi" simply because they use the "Jewish" word in their lyrics, even if they are simply blaspheming their religion and not advocating Nazism in any way. It's a maddening double standard honestly.
great topic, cant wait to watch this now
Hyvä video. NS, fascist and pro-white ideologies fit well in black metal context. Black metal has always been about dark side of moral values and RESISTANCE. In nowadays highly explosive political climate, NSBM is more relevant than it ever was.
Also, I see it only does good that BM goes more into underground once again.
Glad you talked about this subject very objectively Jerry. Most people are too scared to even talk about it and those who do talk, are mostly moralists without anything interesting to say.
Thanks for your comment & understanding. Kiitti.
Well... I think most of Black Metal bands of the 90´s or late 90´s that showed some swastikas, 88 , HH, or something like that was more like a reaction against Metal morals and values which never crossed that line so far... bands such as Holocausto (Brazil) , which in the 80s their album cover showes an SS soldier with a dog in a concentration camp was an act of insolence... and shocking that´s all... and I think, Dark Throne was into this vein... inf act Fenriz is nowadays more punk that metal haha...
Anyway, I do think that the dangerous thing is that many bands have really Nazi political views and in fact they are involved seriously into spreading those values which is nothing to do with Black Metal ... Honestly when I was told that Kaiadas of Naer Mataron was an active member of Golden Dawn party which is clearly a Nazi party, I never listened again to Naer Mataron, sorry... Black Metal should not be linked to Antifa or Nazi.... Black Metal is darkness, negativity, aggression and hate.. values that don´t are left or right... .
Well said
I can understand why NSBM bands can be offputting, especially the over-the-top-siege-pill shit like Einsatzgruppen. But the 'Melodic & Triumphant' riffs of bands like Seigneour Voland or Tlateoclani are just so incredibly gorgeous.
But I also find that the 'NSBM' label gets misued towards bands that are even remotely patriotic or nationalistic. It's sad really.
Yep, people simplify these things too much. Not all ”love for the country” means ”hatred for outsiders”. Two different things.
Too many SJW's in metal
I just recently learned, much to my dismay and disappointment, that Kreator actually lobbied to have a band thrown off a festival bill because they were *supposed* "Nazis."
A metal band-- an old school one, at that-- engaging in censorship.
@@garrgravarr Not when liberal/communists stomp on free speech it isn't.
Anti-SJW are the new SJW.
@@bigyikes3733 yes, defending freedom of expression is EXACTLY the same thing as going into hysterical fits, attacking innocent bystanders, and trying to destroy people's lives-- up to and including making their families homeless when they lose their jobs-- because they said a word you don't like!
How did I not see it before?
Did your parents have any children that lived?
Satanic, anti-Christian is ok, but the perception of being free or anti-left, then you're a nazi and must be silenced. LOL, that bullshit doesn't work with real metal.
To start great video and keep it up. I am like you I like good metal I don't care about the lyrics if the music is kickass. There are a lot of really talented musicians on both sides that make music I like. Basically what I'm saying is Good metal is good metal if you don't like it don't listen to it.
Hails from the USA
This exactly. Cheers! Have a great weekend.
Thank you for this video Jerry - very interesting and I totally agree - Black Metal is Anti-social, Anti-human, Anti-relligious and basically ANTI. I also think it would be better to keep politics out of the music, since, well, I don't give a fuck about other people political opinions, I am totaly for individualism.
As a Jewish person, although completely secular, I often find myself with needs to explain the difference between relligion beliefes and heritage. Some people don't seem to understand the difference.
I totally agree that there is no point into labeling people, this goes both ways.
A band with clear antisemitic content, can totally compromise my will to give it a listen. Although I am secular, this would be automatically considered as garbage, from my personal perspective (why should I spend my time on bands that put a label on Jewish people?). For me, Black Metal is more of being leading, and not led by ideals which I find rediculos. People like to be perceived as cool, tough, elite or just different - I get that, but I beleive that they should seek it in other forms.
If they do truly believe this crap - by all means :) they are totally entitiled to express it in their art.
For those few - just a small reminder - the Natzis lost the war, and even in Germany are considered as a shameful chapter in History.
Similar to you, I am not strongly involved, nor moved, by political views, most are shitty (being Right or Left), and from history we can learn that usually, people with extreme political views and belives, don't contribute much and just bring self-inflicting degeneration to their followers.
However, what are your thoughts about bands who identify as natzis (e.g. worhip the Natzi idiology / members of political movements) - coming from countries that were invaded and enslaved by the Natzi regime? for example NSBM bands, with anti-semitic views, coming from Poland or Eastern Europe or people from countries who confroted that regime (e.g. from the USA or the UK)?
Moe looked like Hitler. Who really knows what would have happened if they won. Could have been very similar to the Soviet Union.
Thanks for your comment. We seem to agree here.
I think it's kinda ironic for those bands to be in support of ns if they were invaded by nazis. Maybe they have Stockholm syndrome? Or maybe they don't know the past?
Great perspective loved the show. Very articulate
Thx
I thought Black Metal and Death Metal were supposed to be dangerous. It seems as if it is just becoming a new high school clique.
Well, yes. It has been getting into mainstream for quite a few many years, as you know so of course it's sort of a "high school clique" in a way. I mean, Cannibal Corpse is selling millions of albums despite "dangerous lyrics". Bands like Dimmu Borgir are mainstreamish, too.
And if you think back in the 80's when bands like Cannibal Corpse and Rotting Christ were outright banned. Or when members of Dimmu Borgir said racist things. So yeah, things have changed. But I'm sure you're aware of this.
@@RautaMetal Yes I agree with you. It just seems everyone is offended by everything these days. So Politically Correct. What happened to if you don't like it don't listen, or just fuck off? People need to grow "thicker skin". It's fucking metal! It supposed to be dangerous... We should all be wolves among the sheep! Yet it seems the sheep have slipped into wolves clothing.
It might have something to do with the fact that spreading fascims is a real problem in society and a real problem for those who live in underground music scene and are not privileged as fuck. Music can be dangerous without spreading oppressive ideologies.
And metal shows are conformist as fuck least nowdays anyway with mosty middle aged guys having beer and away time from their partners they can't handle. Try going to a hardcore mosh pit once, even better, try going to antifascist hardcore pit in Moscow as openly nazi and you get some real danger.
Dark Horizon Records oh yes. Supporting and defending the ruling classes as fascists seek to do. That’s so dangerous !
@@animalsarecomradestoo.8995 I do not condone, support or defend any "ruling class" or so called "fascists". I am supporting the peoples right to say what is on their mind. If you squash opinions you disagree with other than your own, then are you not too not a fascist? And yes expressing a view point that is that extreme can be dangerous and somewhat risky. Just ask some of the promoters, bands and labels that have suffered from groups like "antifa" or "religious fanatics" threatening violence from the idea of the lyrical content of an artist. Acting in a fascist way for "the greater good". This is very dangerous territory we are walking. Listen, you may disagree but everyone should have the right to say what t is on their mind. Even if they are spouting off stupid ideology you disagree with. Be aware of the "Thought Police"! Is it really the artist we should blame? Or the leaders of society? Also it was not too long ago fascism almost took over the world. It pays to not forget or history will repeat itself. Remember this was an opinion based discussion. So it is wise to remember the old saying... "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they typically smell of shit".
I don't like how today there are so many people quick to point fingers and call a band or artist a racist or nazi etc. Too many people on their high horse and certain organisations sticking their heads where they don't belong. NSBM has been around for a while now and it's part of the scene whether we like it or not. I don't personally listen to it but who am I to say you shouldn't. Isn't black metal or just music in general supposed to be the artistic expression of the band and people who like it buy and listen to it. But it seems to be a cultural problem today not only in metal but in society if someone does or says something remotely offensive there is someone else gonna DEMAND that person lose their job or be publicly shamed for it. I think that behavior is VERY dangerous and rather hypocritical! If you had to answer for everything you've ever done that offended someone or if you made a mistake in your past should someone else have the right to label you or punish you? I think not! We'd have a world full of people who are afraid to step out of line and do something different and that would be one sad place to live! Also if someone makes music which offends me(impossible lol) I probably just wouldn't listen to it, not try to shut down their show and take money from their pockets! People need to worry less about others actions and more about their own. Enjoy what music you like and let me or others enjoy theirs. I've said too much and I'm done now. Good video man thanks for having balls to talk open about it. Hails
Thanks for your comment! Yeah, you're right: it's quite ironic that even many criminals get better treatment than some artists with a controversial message.
Great comment and i totally agree, the recrimination culture has gotten totally out of hand ie. go after the easy targets, anyone who doesn't subscribe to leftist ideology, we can just bracket them all together as fascists and then they wonder why there's a reaction against this.
I avoid NSBM and bands that are in the grey zone. It is easy for bands to take a stand. There are a lot of other bands that I can enjoy intead. I do not want to support Nazi/right ideology and absolutely not be in a crowd/concert where such ideologies are breed or normalized.
I totally understand you! I don't care so much, but I can respect your choice.
The first thing I do when I discover a band, is to search their name and add the word "NSBM" in google. Unfortunately there are often ties between these bands and NSBM (Not always of course)
I never got this thing about any political message in black metal in general... In my mind the very essence of this genre must be "everyone is worthless equally!"
"Equally worthless" - I can agree with that.
Finally, political topics I can get behind. Love your stuff Rauta, keep rockin!
Cheers!
i can't affor support this kind of music but i don't Wanna be a 'social warrior' there are not laws in black metal music
I totally understand.
Very good video! It is true that people that are not on the right nor the left side often are labeled even because of some shirt of some band. For example also Marduk with all their war imaginary are seen as right wing BM.
Being that said, and being said that I don't follow any political side, I think we should agree that BM has never been a left wing movement as can other genres be, as raggae and all that stuff... People that know BM know what I am talking about and love the genre as it is, and I am not talking about NSBM.
Aye!
Like these days it seems like to me that there w are alot of bands who hold ideals that line up with NS but they reject the NS label. Like Graveland who has those views but he hates them and rightfully points out that NS were oppressive to his country of Poland during WWII and with their anti-slavic stances. And also someone like Burzum where his attitude is "so what if I am racist and anit-s-metic, I have no interested in participating in anything to oppress or kill you, just leave me alone up in my cabin away from society"
I'm not sure that's Graveland's stance. It's not really about countries, it's about splitting the white race.
Good impartial video. I separate the art from the artist. In any case, there are no doubt members of bands who hold NS or whatever views who do not disclose them or write lyrics about.
Cheers!
@Rauta -- Forgive what is sure to be a lengthy rant here, but concision is often the enemy of precision. Your open-mindedness concerning this subject, and your capacity for dispassionate, nuanced, critical analysis, is what I've come to expect from this channel (and from any mature person who studies the world in more than stark monochrome).
As you correctly remarked: there are bands accused of N.S. affiliation, either due to perceived proximity or perhaps creative collaboration with others clumsily labeled as such (any degree will suffice for the witch hunters of "the current year"); and there are bands, by contrast, with open, avowed N.S. affiliation. (I will refrain from using the term "Nazi" here, by the way, unless it is in quotations, as this was an Allied pejorative -- a slur, essentially -- which was never common among actual National-Socialists, past or present, with any seriousness). Notice how the former actually take more flak than the latter. Is it, perhaps, because those advancing "cancellation culture" prefer soft targets who will, instead of fighting back, plead with their accusers, thereby bolstering their illusion of authority and the privilege to interrogate anyone on the basis of perceived ideological transgressions? This answers itself.
Whatever we choose to call it, something NO thinking person should be able to ignore is the question of *why* this is even presented as such an urgent topic of discussion. It is as if it is becoming *more* urgent, despite a stagnant or decreasing number of bands with affiliation to N.S. worldview in any explicit sense. And I don't mean that it is strange that YOU would cover the topic, given it has become too commonplace to ignore (due to forces beyond your influence), but rather: *why* is it deemed so important today, and perhaps most tellingly, to *whom*? One almost gets the feeling a panic is being generated. I can't help envision that photo of failed comedian, Netanyahu, holding up the cartoon bomb before the UN assembly, as if a certain line will be crossed in this accusative group's estimation from which there is no return. They really want to ratchet up the sense of impending doom so that those previously indifferent will imagine something must be done to avert some vague yet constantly-hinted catastrophe.
I don't know about you, but whenever I detect sudden fixations, trends, or mental/behavioral fads, be it in popular culture or even in the underground (however saturated and thoroughly infiltrated it has become), I step back and examine the situation much more carefully. In the specific case of all this feigned concern (this fake, cartoonish panic) over "Nazis" in Metal, again, I have to ask: Who is even expressing the concern? What are their fears? What is their proposed alternative or preferable outcome, instead?
I think it is abundantly clear where this entire obsession is coming from, if we throw the gloves off and get real (and when should we not?). It is wholly inorganic. Hollow. Too abrupt and pronounced for authenticity or credibility. That is to say, it is pure establishment, and hardly burgeoning from any grassroots level as they would prefer us to think. It's coming from a vocal minority of Jewish journalists and their lamestream Leftist affiliates -- the Umanovs and the Goldbergs, etc. -- posturing as arbiters of taste in Metal [MetalSucks arrogantly branded itself "the most trusted source for metal opinion, analysis and up-to-date breaking news on artists ranging from the biggest in the world to the underground"], and from millennial Antifa Punks (that strange wedding of complete derelict dropouts and trust-fund snobs who wish to emulate the former) who rapidly wormed their way into the vital organs of Black Metal via Thrash and Crust -- ahem, Kim Kelly. Now it's MetalSucks and BangerTV and Vice and Noisey and Vox and Buzzfeed, etc., acting as unelected mouthpieces for OUR reality and OUR world, telling us what is and is not welcome, and what must and must not be done about it.
You know why N.S.B.M. was even born? Again, let's be real. It's not as contradictory as the critics suggest, and it has nothing to do with party politics. It was both a progression of certain themes as well as a backlash against certain elements particular to this age. It is hardly surprising that the more inquisitive and iconoclastic personalities in Black Metal, as anti-establishment and counter-culture in spirit, would delve deeper than the surface of things and look at who, precisely, is in control of this modern culture/establishment. Who is on top? Who holds the power? Who cannot be criticized? Who holds a monopoly on the narrative (any conceivable narrative, practically)? This entire world age is a manifestation of "Allied victory". Whether our grandfathers would have desired this outcome or not (I can assure you, mine would not, despite serving in the U.S. Navy), this world, as it stands, is a product or result of the last great planetary conflict, and may be judged accordingly. If this is where sham Democracy (mob rule) under ethno-nepotistic Plutocrats led us, we don't want it. It's fashionable to complain about the "1%", but not if you get too specific -- then you are persona non grata. This entire situation prompts a re-examination of what came before, and ought make us wonder why they, the powers-that-be, were so threatened by any true alternative to their own proposed system (then and now).
Furthermore, why would any serious critic of Christendom fail to consider its Abrahamic roots? And if one begins to really delve deeply into those branches, studying their own literature, how could they fail to oppose it more explicitly, rather than couching it in vague terminology? We are not choirboys, after all, so who are we sparing if we avoid injurious counterpoint? If Christianity is not for us, what is it that makes it so alien and incompatible? From which soil did it spring? The same soil as the other two weeds that plague us. Why is it deemed commonplace to be anti-Christian, yet controversial be anti-Abrahamic/anti-Judaic? Why is that a bridge too far? I had this argument with Dayal Patterson recently, which he could not but fail to censor from his feed, given it illumined his double standards with regards the subject of Fullmoon (a band he referenced as "thematically problematic -- again, to WHOM?!)
The Satanic aspect in Black Metal is rooted in all adversarial archetypes and, as such, exalts contest, conflict, challenge. It is a metaphysics of strife. If we look at what is deemed most detestable from any standard, mainstream, establishment perspective, the polar opposite of that entrenched establishment emerges in crystal clarity. We see something, then, of a true alternative to everything in power today. We reject the egalitarian model. We reject this perverse obsession with humanity as something unique in any way. We reject Political Correctness, which is a frail euphemism for Cultural Marxism. For us, Black Metal is elite and hostile, by design. It isn't for everyone, and ought be viciously defended from the kinds of incursions which would render it a soft, lukewarm, all-inclusive, commodified safespace by parasites who never truly understood it or truly cared for it in the first place. Their fixation is an indication that they KNOW its power, and as such, seek to neutralize it, not maximize it.
Lastly, I will say that, in my estimation, N.S.B.M. was never in truth any sort of significant departure from Black Metal, nor really even a pronounced sub-genre which in any substantive way strayed from the original formula. If anything, it's been an intensification of its roots via varied and divisive means. One of the reasons we hear less about it from *within* the underground (in spite of all the incessant whining from *without*) is NOT because it ceased to exist, but rather, because it developed to the point that hyphenations from B.M. were neither necessary nor useful. Our enemies will predictably assail ANYTHING that is authentic, nativistic, strength-oriented, and ungovernable on their terms. Despite their claims, it is not N.S.B.M. they have a problem with, but rather, TRUE B.M. as it stands. Abundant proof of this is what they find permissible versus who they target, blacklist, doxx, etc. I suspect on some level, you see this clearly, yourself, even if we may vary on some of the aforementioned particulars.
First of all, thanks for the post and secondly, no need to apologize to anything as long as the stuf is kept civil here. And those who are not civil, well, they never apologize anyway.
I get your point and agree that medias like Metal Sucks, Vice etc. are very much on the wrong turf. It's as if I was telling the Afro-American community how it feels and should be being a black person in American culture. To me these medias are barely visitors. Uninvited guests.
Musically NSBM isn't a subgenre as such, even though certain patterns are there - sometimes more towards Oi! or RAC or just beyond the scope of black metal, being more in the vein of more mainstreamish melodic metal. Sometimes it feels very forcefed to see a band called "NSBM" when they don't have anything "BM" in their music in the first place. It might be "NS, still, but not "BM".
Anyway, I see NS-style more as a vent for people who want to have the best of both worlds - according to their view anyway. That is, this "NS" world view (if there's one in the first place) but also part of extreme metal. Much like "folk black metal": pieces of folklore tied to extreme metal. Might sound funny but it's there to stay. "Santa Claus goes black", eh.
This is one of the more intelligent responses on this comments section. Very interesting read.
I'd like to add that NSBM is the logical conclusion to what BM's original goal was; a revolt against the modern world and a means to criticize the ones we're never allowed to criticize under any circumstances whatsoever
SLAVA NSBM!! SLAVA RAUTA!!!!! ⚔⚔
I wish more Metalheads had your common sense. Liked and Subscribed 🤘🏾
Thank you, sir.
again, nice work, Rauta! Very well thought out. I am glad to see somebody taking a look at this issue without getting all worked up.
Thanks!
Haven't had a chance to watch yet (looking forward to it) but I will say:
1. Humans are not exempt from evolution
2. Human evolution did not stop at the shoulders
3. Different groups of humans evolved in vastly disparate conditions across the planet, leading to vastly different, and often incompatible, survival strategies. Said strategies are the bases of the different cultures.
Denying the above is to deny more than science; it is to deny common sense. And for nothing more than shallow and fleeting social approbation from the capricious mobs of humanity.
While I can understand your comment, I fail to see what this has to do with MUSICAL style known as NSBM.
@@RautaMetal just a setup for talking about the philosophies and feelings behind NSBM and right-wing lyrics, and talking about the foolishness (as I perceive it) of black metal fans wanting the most extreme antipathy towards humanity at large, but going into "hysterical soccer mom" mode when antipathy towards subsets of humanity is the subject at hand.
Just now getting to watch; 5:30 a.m. here and no coffee yet. Hope to make it more clear asap.
@@aleisterbroley900 Alrght. That makes sense. Thanks.
I am a NSBM fan, politically far right and started writing my own NSBM music. I only do not have how to cover it.
Socialism and Fascism are primarily left wing ideologies.
@@themeadowlarkminutewithpau8184 Fascism doesn’t have an inherent economic system and is culturally on the extreme right.
Great video, very interesting and informative.
Thanks
Well said!
If band is doing NSBM, they are gonna tell you about it. People who don't do NSBM, don't call themselves such. It is so fu%&ing simple.
Agree with you,...hysteria!
I really enjoy your content. Great video!
I feel like most 90's - 00's NSBM was actually about the NS WW2 ideologies.
2010's - 2020's - NSBM is anything that doesn't dick ride the left aka politically incorrect black metal.
NSBM is the new shock value for this reason, seen so many bands from different nationalities, ethnicities (Mexicans, Indonesians, Brazilians, Japanese, etc..) that use NSBM imagery. It's the imagery that will instantly get you black listed by the mainstream. Its the last form of actual DIY underground black metal.
Very true. This is something I wanted to talk about in part two of Nsbm.
@@RautaMetal ever heard of the ONSP / Odio Bronce scene. Uses NSBM style imagery with Prehispanic - Aztec, Mayan native themes.
Then you have the Asian scene from Indonesia, Japan , Malaysia (Heritage Nusantara) - bands like Jugra.
From my understanding their philosophy is to use Nationalism to protect their own pagan heritage, customs and culture. All are against immigration in their respective countries, their people come first. No forms of degeneracy wanted for their culture so they can flourish and procreate. No traces of juedo - religion which is blamed for the destruction of pagan cultures and the current oppression/downfall of modern society. The idea is that WWII NS was very multicultural in it's alliances, the master race ideology was meant to be applied to each ethnicity in alliance with the SS.
Can't say I have heard is those but it kinda makes sense. Religions have indeed hurt cultures more than other races as such.
@@RautaMetal Look into those scenes, it's worth a mention of how deep the NSBM rabbit hole is. Like I said there is meztizo themed NSBM such as the ONSP collective, Sacrificial Massacre part of Odio Bronce is another band that is Mexica, Aztec, Native Americans against Z O G elite. there is an interesting statement on the album Chief of the savage which is a Native American standpoint on NSBM. Odio Bronce members are any where of Hopi Native American to Mexican Ancestry. Another example are bands like Nokturne who some deem as race traitors because they have Mexicans in their NSBM band. Most of the taciturn, Songs over ruin for example which is Chinese NSBM/martial industrial. There is actually a label called F*ck the ONSP / ANTI-ONSP that is against all forms of non white NSBM. haha these are just leads if they interest you.
Thanks for the tips. If I just had the time to spend with these, but alas, that’s not really possible at the moment. Too much stuff going on.
Is it bad if I'm hispanic and like some NSBM?
Obviously not, but I will ask however.
No, it's not bad.
Your not the only one
Musicians who advocate values like racism, xenophobia or anti-semitism should not be supported. Your mindset determines your actions and people who become violent against other people because of ideology are ALL anti-democratic and therefore should not be tolerated. This is also true for the left-wing aggressors by the way.
The mantra is "If you tolerate them and if you you do not boycott them, you are supporting them!" If you do not agree with them you should not support them.
While I understand where you are coming from, my world is not that black and white. I can suppor the art even if I don’t agree with the musiciians. This being said: a lot of good bands and their artists might have opinions I don’t agree with. A lot of good people I agree with don’t do good music.
And thee are a lot of products I couldn’t buy if I started to boycott. Actually there are very few countries I agree with but I can’t boycott all the countries. See what I mean?
I just have to accept some shitty things and that’s it. I don’t even like all the things related to Google yet I use their video platform known as RUclips.
So, since I assume you tolerate Islam and Christianity, for example, you also support their violence like beheading people and all that? Is taht correct?
@@RautaMetal All generalizations are false. You can't expand the acts of misguided lunatics on the whole belief system. While I do tolerate Christianity and I do tolerate Islam I do not tolerate violence. Therefore I do not tolerate violent Christians and I do not tolerate violent Muslims. This is not a contradiction.
@@RautaMetal Thank you for your answer. I appreciate your willingless to exchange thoughts in a civilized way. I admit that it is impossible to boycott everything you don't agree with. For example it is hard to buy clothes and avoid products that don't come from sweat shops. I understand what you mean and you are right.
However, I believe that there are different degrees of unethical behavior. When it comes to bands that support or even propagate an ideology of megalomaniac racists who committed crimes against people who, according to them, did not have the right to live because of their blood heritage, this is another level of madness and is far more problematic than Google or Amazon. As I said, it is anti-democratic and dangerous for a peaceful coexistence in an ordered society. This is the point, where I draw a line.
I agree on that. But I also don't think Mayhem is a pet of the problem you mentioned.
And yes I also believe in civilized discussion. You made fair points. I am just saying the world isn't black and white.
Great video brother! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it!
Thanks!
I listened to nsbm in the 2000s and sometimes even now.
I'm not even anti or pro nsbm.
I am personally not into Satanism nor any organized religion. So I feel adhering to satan is just like an anti response to organised abrahamic religions so I don't care.
Actually I'd say I like the music and maybe a little more about cultures, Europe or its countries and their cultures than hating a person or color or nazi stuff or white power.
But being from India, I always wonder how it'd be for me to attend a nsbm show in Europe or even a black metal or pagan metal show. I wonder if I'd get abused or harmed physically or laughed at. 😁
Thanks for the comment! Cool to hear someone from India is watching my vids :)
@@RautaMetal I'm also indian and listen to a ton of metal. Recently I discovered sielunvihollinen and found it really catchy. TBH I don't really care about what anyone's personal views are. Just thought the music was cool.
Great Rauta! Very wide and open minded!
Thanks!
@@RautaMetal keep it up brother!
I enjoy listening to some nsbm, but frankly there're simply not so many great bands out there openly affiliated with this movement, imo. The leftists have the greater share of talent, haha. On the other hand, I like a little right-wing ideology in my metal, bands like Sigrblot, Absurd, Capricornus, Graveland are just awesome at times.
I think the best bands - musically anyway - are not tied to either of these wings politically.
I do not understand why peopel are so concerned what strangers think of them,especially leftwing extremist babies whoms opinion does not matter and won't change anythign in the world at all.
i am a proud German/Korean Nationalist i love Nature,Traditions,Culture and everything both my countries have to offer and i would die for both.
My favourite black metal genre is Funeral black metal and Ritualistic,also like Drone and Bestial.
Black metal in general is pretty awesome and NSBM in particulair for having the messages i fully agree with.
Live your own life don't fall for peerpressure especially not from strangers.
Du bist also stolzer Deutscher/Koreaner? Was hast du denn so dafür getan ein Deutscher zu sein? Genau, nichts. Solche Menschen wie dich verabscheue ich komplett, du kannst nichts dafür dass du in irgendein Land geboren wurdest. Außerdem würdest du für dein Land sterben? Das ist ja auch komplett peinlich weil ich kann dir mit 100% Wahrscheinlichkeit sagen dass die Regierung von ganz oben keinen einzelnen Fick auf deine Existenz gibt. Du bist nur eine weitere Zahl in einem riesigen System. Aber hey ist ja nur meine persönliche Meinung nicht anfangen zu weinen okay? Bin weder ein Links-Extremist noch Rechts-Extremist, finde deine denkweise auf diese Menschheit einfach nur komplett verblödet.
English please.
Simple answer to clickbait question? ...any European metal group who dares to honour their forefathers.
It isn’t that black and white IMO. Besides some forefathers were dickheads.
@@RautaMetal agreed. However, the prism of modern politics, any caucasian artist who dares to go against the modern scapegoating of ANY white who dares to not disrespect thier family, heritage.....this was the intent of my statement. This is now radical, and EXTREME METAL SHOULD!!!! BE RADICAL!!! 😘
Somedude Sure
If they make Good music, i don't care. the fact tho is that NSBM usually make more hateful and aggressive music, which tends to be better..
First of all I’m a member of the Black Metal scene since basically the first hour!
In meantime I’m a music journalist as well and damn old school...So, when hendrik möbus and his filthy boys started to make something like...just very bad music in 1992, I played myself in bands already too and experienced all the miserable stuff which was happening back then, as a real witness of that time....Anyway, Black Metal was never meant to be political or anything like that! Black Metal had to be pure with no rules and no boundaries! We were against society in general...There were back then only a handful of people, who were actually pulling the attention of the media and people on themselves, not with their music because it was simply not worth it, but with their stupid actions such as killing people or burning shit...It destroyed the scene and the music...
So all those kiddos here, like this Rodrigo, writing about history they actually didn’t experience or don’t know...should really, as Tacitus NCK is saying, get lost and not even think about to call themselves Black Metal! I also think, that such brain dead people, such as a Möbus shouldn’t get any support! Killing a friend is not a gentleman’s act....
Right! ....
Thanks for an insightful comment from the decades past!
kiitos kaveri!
Interesting video, Love the honesty here