Hemi flame propagation is normally not very good so they need a LOT more timing lead than a wedge motor and such a huge motor might not play nice with a single spark plug. Aircraft motors are about the same size cylinder and they use dual spark plugs to lessen the timing lead needed to get the fire all the way across the piston. When I first saw the combustion chambers on the Big Black Hemi I was surprised it didn't have dual plugs and think it would run better lighting the fire in two places vs the one it's using now. O2 sensors don't read right if the fuel being injected doesn't burn...so you can be super fat yet the sensors will show lean. It's blowing black smoke which means it's not burning the fuel...and this shows on the plugs.
They use dual plugs, for a safety. They also have dual ignitions. BUT not used at same time. It’s in case 1st ignition failure. The second one can be used.
@@metalted6128 During run-up you always do a 'mag check' where you kill one mag and then the other and you're looking for an rpm drop if they're working right. Redundancy was a side benefit of the dual plugs and magneto's....the flame propagation is SO slow across the huge piston that at aircraft engine speeds you need to light it in two places to get it all burned in time for proper piston position.
Hi Steve, you said you read the comments. I hope my input is helpfull. I am probably not about to say anything you dont already know. But with good intentions. I see no downside to throw out some thoughts. Honestly so many things came to mind watching I wish I could have afforded to fly down and have a look in person. Looked like TPS was moving on the logs. If so was AE being excited on and off blasting fuel shots causing the A/F spikes your seeing? It would also explain the black plugs. AE roc blanking might have to be turned up to filter out tps scatter. But also on the dyno I would reccomend shutting all the AE modifiers off. You dont need tip in on the dyno anyway. Next. Did you try it in open loop? If the O2 sample rate is too high or any anomally is giving false O2 readings. You will be able to see the issue go away in open loop. What is the O2 speed setting at? Grounding is important. But all those grounds can cause ground loops further agrivating things. Especially if any AC ripple is present from things like example: electric water or fuel pumps or battery charging devices, secondary ignition leaks etc. Why would you throw the boost to it when it has a running issue that at the least is fuel foulling plugs. Something is unhappy and needs fixing before you crank boost into the poor thing. Throw a carb on it if need be to be sure it is not a valvetrain annomally? The shutting off thing was scary. If thats from fuel that needs to be looked at before adding boost imo. Point the timing light toward you and tape the trigger down. Watch it during the run and if the engine misses or shuts off again you will see the light flash interupt. The BSAC and The BSFC are going to give clues here if valve motion is interupted. If only bsfc is wooobly. And bsac stays smooth. Then its likely valve control has been maintained. Again. I am sure you already are all over this and more. But it never hurts to reach out and share some thoughts. Thanks for your videos. Very entertaining for a used old man like me. Cheers!
Actually the winner's guess was closer than you said. He guessed 1, 045 and the actual was 1,044.7; so he only missed by .3 HP, not 1 full HP. That's a pretty &%$# GOOD guess...!! Congrats!
Steve for grounding high frequency noise, you should use a flat braided cable, not regular wire like you used in the video. The "Z" which is impedance in Ohms is to high on regular wire to ground noise due to skin effect. Braided cable has more surface area and lower Z at high frequency. This is why the auto manufacturers use flat braided cable between the body and the engine on modern vehicles. It would be wise to do this in your wagon also. Another way of saying it, not all ground wires are created equal.
1000 HP naturally aspirated at low RPM with a Cam designed for boosted applications and Pump gas and he's disappointed. Steve Morris problems' That things gonna be beastly.
I had a customer that had ground issues and it created an intermittent misfire and a cam signal loss and it did all sorts of crazy things. He was on a motec ECU turned out. Somebody installed an oil cooler in the fender well and there was a junction harness it had about six grounds for the ECU, and they put it on a rubber Gromit. Chasing electrical problems can be a nightmare
As a harness designer and builder mainly Motec systems your example is the type of stuff that gives me nightmares. Pretty hard to fly to a site and troubleshoot an issue that was "self induced" by the tech who made an install error and charge customer for such accordingly. That said the amount of mental effort SM puts into his creations is mind boggling. We tend to relate to such as "science projects". Differences in grounding potentials can cause disasters and lord knows how that boat is wired.
Just love it, the things you learn from watching a Steve Morris video. Nobody else does the detail of problems and solutions as much as the SM channel.
I like the fact that he doesn't try to hide stuff either. He shows the full struggle, including the rare occasion when he makes a mistake. Regardless, this is not a mechanic or a technician. The stuff he does is nothing short of engineering IMHO
Are the water cooled headers somehow effecting the air fuel reading? There are three things out of the normal for this dyno run. Big cubic inch, anodizing, and water cooled headers. Tthe cubic inch with the small cam can be some of the problem. I think you fiixed the grounding problem. Maybe it's the headers.
I’ve been in manufacturing maintenance for 30 years. Trouble shooting, finding the simplest failure, is so frustrating at times. I always start with the simplest thing first. Even more so with a one off motor. Great job SME!! Many times my brain hurts thinking about why!! I feel your pain, Steve!!
Steve, I don’t even attempt to claim one tenth of your engine building/tuning knowledge. However, I will say this… Welcome to the world of Hemi tuning. I was always a big block Chevy guy turned Hemi guy and what we learned is that the cross flow is so much greater in a Hemi that you throw out most of what you know about tuning wedge engines. Generally if a Hemi doesn’t look like a coal furnace it is either down on power or nibbling on parts. Just what we have seen in our experience. Good luck
What I mean is that it really needs to be A LOT richer than you think. If the plugs don’t look sooty on gas or way over fueled on alky they are typically not happy
@@k20edef1 That’s a very loaded question as every combination will want something different to be happy, but what I would tell you is that I would absolutely start very fat and slowly work towards leaning it out with very small steps. When it stops making large gains definitely stop. But we have a gear jammers car with a 13.5:1 528 Hemi and it’s perfectly happy in the low 11’s on afr or where you would typically run a boosted wedge. It is however on Q16 an oxigenated fuel so that probably affects it a little bit as well.
You could tell in Steve’s voice how happy and passionate he is about his wagon. It’s fantastic. The BBH is a humongous beast and a unique critter. Let’s see what happens now when the Biggest charger goes on it Support from 🇦🇺🇦🇺
a "dark mode" on the software onscreen would be so so pretty imo 2288hp ;) my guesstimate for why it stalls out because of the amount of air is too little, since she soots like a diesel when letting go at high rpm she must be rich. meaning too little air. sometimes one has so much knowledge about a thing that one forgets the simplest things. like when you make a perfect solderjoint the gorram shrink is on the table when you triumphantly smile:)
I wish government ran and change like an engine Turner.Cause it's like we have a broken fuel pump.But they say the system's is fine,brain fart I'll go back to sheep
I wonder if because it’s only 9:1 and normal unleaded fuel it’s sooty on the plugs because it’s inefficient up there. Be cool to try a high oxygen fuel to see if it helps it along as the revs climb. Motorsport109 maybe??
Lots of random problems. Good to sort before boosting. Strikes me that higher rpm fuel not matching air very well because fuel system doesn't care about rpm but ofcouse diminishinging returns with respect to cylinder filling. Add in slower flame front and less charge compression and slower flame front as a result. Add in anomalies about swirl and mixing fuel. Plugs asked to cope with different combustion pressures etc. I kind of wonder why engines of this cost are not running variable valve timing. We change when the spark fires but are not letting the cam do same thing.
Is it possible that you're losing ignition strength at higher rpm because of eddy currents caused by anodizing? That would explain why spark deteriorated and starts to become less accurate. You can ground the coils better, but if the heads are not well grounded to the block, and the block has points of resistance to other grounded areas, then it can create weird Eddy currents that disrupt high discharge events. I thought I remember seeing that the block deck was anodized. Hope that helps.
There appears to be a Electronic ignition issue Steve Morris. Ignition Dwell coil saturation time. Controlled by FET Transistors. Its best checked by Vintage Auto Oscilloscopes. Or by an Electronic Technician Engineer Grade Storage Oscilloscope. No way to use a Magneto ignition with EFI Full control. I prefer Magneto ignitions myself simple and reliable. Magnetos have Double The Burn time in crank degrees measured Vs any Electronic ignition CD or Coil on plug. All Magnetos generate AC Current Vs DC Current with all battery ignitions. Also have Slew Rates changes with all electronic ignitions. Magnetos the Slew Rate remains dead on the money Zero aa Rpms increase.
Afr,"speed sensor, ground. Up down up down. then way up way down. You say turn water off. In video. Cavatation of air fule or ground? Id run that by your boy... cange dynoes. Only thing worse than no data is bad datta. Your going to figure it out.
Been looking forward to the paint reveal since this rebuild started. Wraps are nice, and definitely have their place, but for nice custom stuff like this the old custom painter's saying applies: "If it ain't paint, it ain't schitt"
please stop the tease of tune in next week 30s serial to see if our hero escapes. if not I will be leaving paided channel member, I am to old for that kid stuff
I think this is a ground problem, electrical system isn’t happy. I would make sure that everything is grounded. You might even need to run a large separate ground from the battery and run all of the grounds to it instead of relying on the block.
When they made don garlic run the hemi he hated it he cranked the timing to it to blow it up so he could go back to his old combo and it finally come alive
It was the 426 Hemi that Garlits tried to blow up because he couldn’t get it to run as fast as his tried and true 392 Hemi. The larger bore of the 426 needed more lead vs the 392 to get everything in the chamber to burn.
Those big motors should have a pre combustion chamber super rich to get the flame travel going. Would of course have to redesign the head. Definitely needs two plugs a hole.
On some runs 15 and 17 maybe more I noticed a flash near the back of the motor under the intake and above the valley cover, near the end of each run. What was that?
Wouldn’t the water in the headers mess with the O2 readings? Disclaimer - I am the furthest thing from a tuner or even a good mechanic. Question of genuine curiosity.
Time 2000 note how the shutters in the dyno wall such shut at high RPM. This is even worse with high HP motors. There isn't enough make up air going in to the dyno room, the end result is an engine operating at high altitude NA. .
Wild to see an engine making 1000hp reliably, and have it be not happy, but that’s cause Steve does wild stuff! Very cool to watch the stuff this shop accomplishes!
Nice troubleshooting ...... my guess for the boosted beast black hemi is 2,232HP @ 25psi. That was a dirty misdirection dirty trick of a tease and not showing us the wagon paint reveal .... just sayin'.
If you have EMI/EMF noise issues it’s probably best to run dual shielded cables with drains to all your sensors and ignition wires rather then just regular wire. You can also add ferrites to the wires to collect an other EMI / EMF. It can definitely give you cause readings. Proper grounding methods are important but just adding multiple random grounds won’t do much. You can actually create a ground loop.
It's hard to say what's going on watching a video. It's much better being there. I would think running the grounds back to battery or starter. If the starter is ok with the ground so will everything else. I would have liked to see the exhaust manifolds and where the O2 sensors are mounted. Not sure but at the end it looked like he put the system in "open loop" to take the O2 sensors out of it, old school. I think Steve knows what's going on at the end of the day. The cam wasn't right for NA. Steve doesn't say how much lift or duration of cam. Since the power is good at lower RPM it needs more air at higher RPM to make big HP. I missed how much boost they'll run. 12-15 should wake it up at high RPM. As a tech it's interesting to watch someone go through trouble shooting to find the problem. I'm sure there was a lot more off camera. Normal people have no idea how frustrating it can be and how wonderful it is when you find the problem.
Big girl just needs a bigger cam for power at 6500. More torque than hp suggests under cammed. Tighten the valve lash and if it improves it wants more cam.
that wavy AF is missfires, maybe small chance but could have valve bounce, been there done that. Need WAY MORE IGNITION, like a 44amp mag and 120 thou plug gap
The fact that you are having to work hard to get the best performance out of the engine makes for a great video. I am sorry you had to suffer through it to make us this video. One thing is certain, you can definitely hear when it's happier on a pull.
Even big tube double wall headers will kill a normal 598 boat engine, I cant imagine these being much more than 2 1/4 ID. And the sharp 90 degree bends as well. A 900 inch can move a lot of cfm, but only if it can get out. The blower will probably clean it up.
with boost 1640 hp and 1780 torque my guess with 25 pounds boost.....Love you're shows Steve can't wait to see Wagon I got excited for nothing on this Video lol. Take care god bless.
I never got a chance to post the other day when the other video came out, but my N/A guess was 1050hp, so pretty close. For boosted, my guess is going to be 2575hp.
Dohc, coil on plug. Is a beautiful thing. A lot more accurate. Push rod motors. Are awesome, and super cool, hot rod/ racing motors but Dohc is the way go. And can make ALOT of hp!! Check out snot rocket!!!
29 degrees at, let us say 110 LSA gives us 278 degrees at 0.50" lifter rise, yes? Fair for 9.0:1 compression ratio, but a bit low for a seriously undersquare 2V engine tryning to push max power to 6500 rpm. I would guess. :) Lb/ft/CID always tells a lot. What is the intake flow to engine volume ratio?
My crazy math I have no idea where I got the idea from says 2161hp on 15lbs. Since we have no idea how much boost you’re going to throw at it that’s my guess.
hi, sorry for your troubles. I know a guy who got f--- ed into the ground with bad grounds. It came down to the "capicity of the ground" I.E. the amount of amperage the ground was capable of carring to complete he circuit. good luck
Amusing to see... im just into retarding the cam a lot...... Start with 5degrees! should be above 1200hp to me! Torque under 4000rpm, who cares!!!! nice video and nice that you share the challenge that can be!
I haven't seen anyone comment that you made 2 #15 pulls, it is just mind boggling to me what all goes into turning these high end motor's but if I ever have one built it will be one of your's.
I will say this…Personally I will never use Holley EFI on any of My personal builds again. I want to smash it all with a sledgehammer. My Dominator box will do things that make no sense. When you ask for help from Holley this is what I get….🤷IDK..never heard of that, Must be something you did. Ohh, So you spent 5k dollar’s on it..…..Sorry its a potted box, can’t fix it.
It seems to me not enough spark for the airflow. Or not enough airflow for a proper mixture for a clean burn. You know Steve, put the boost to it and it will be normal. It will run like it should. That’s why it was designed this way, if NA you would have to add a spark plug or change the location of the spark plug and injector. I love what your doing and I can’t wait to see the next one!
Hey Stevie Buddy it looks like 903 or the 959 are not exactly the regular fare at your establishment ..So I get it...Yes that is Huge . But somewhere in my memory banks I recall you tell us something like Your NOT a Big Fan of BIG inch Boosted applications so unless you have had a change of heart it looks like your a Big fan of BIG inch boosted applications NOW what changed ? I think you mentioned an issue with unsupported rings ...
Can't believe a pro charger would be used in a boat application after seeing the number failures in 4 second drag race cars, considering the constant cavitation and loading the boat will see. You can tell a man with too much money, but you can't tell him how to waste it? run in at 6500 and turn off and on the dyno load every 20 seconds for a hour and that is what it will see in the boat. Dude better be one hell of throttle man.
I work a distribution warehouse that carry like car vinyl. And we move a lot of vinyl from 3M and a couple other huge vinyl companies and we have wood grain vinyl that would blow your mind we even carry real carbon fiber vinyl. I could get you a sample mailed out for couple different wood ones
You're ground-looping. Consolidate all of the grounds at one location. Big hemi like that, it would be nice if it had dual spark plugs. How much trouble would it be to remachine the heads for dual plugs? Less spark advance required, more positive ignition of the charge.
Damn I guessed 5 horsepower more than him hopefully it carries out a little better supercharged if so I'm going to be pretty damn close congratulations to the winner
STEVE, DO NOT GET BODY WORK DONE BY HIBACHI AUTO BODY! KEEP BUILDING MCFARLAND RACING GRADE MOTORS...... YOU'RE THE BEST AT WHAT YOU DO......H.A.B. SUCK!
I battled resistor spark plugs on a coyote with a msd pro 600 nobody made any at the time and nobody new that. finally fuel tech told me there high output cdi box u can’t run a resistor plug and we had to have a batch made pita. car would free rev great the second any load it would hit a ghost rev limiter.
How much does a big bore long block hemi cost?? I am not sure if I should purchase a gen 3 hemi or old style hemi ? Application will be for strip/street challenger 2010 to 2024. Maybe sportsman category for strip?
So I just bought a SM shirt, but I've got to say its pretty consistent across youtube that NONE of you guys have a Pocket Tee! I gonna take my money to the store that has one. Been diggin your videos Steve ,keep up the Good work!
Well one thing for sure this video series has shown the problems encountered with one off custom engines. Also the most surprising to me was the impact low compression has on overall power output. N/A I would have guessed another 180 hp more than it made.
Am I the only one who thinks thise exhaust headers don't look real, they look plastic (I know they are metal) it's just throwing me off!! That color is so bright and vibrant!!!
With the coil leads, I do recall a problem with a different engine where someone changed their spark-plug brand and started to have problems - turned out they were just that much shorter that there wasn't a direct connection but there was enough voltage to jump that gap and the gap at the tip, until the cylinder pressures built up and there was insufficient voltage for reliable ignition. You mentioned earlier that a mis-fire does look like a lean AFR/lambda, so later with the "20:1" it'd underline it being an ignition issue, especially if otherwise it seemed to be a "rich" mixture.
As recoilrob324 said, I think it might be an issue with the slow flame propagation of the hemi mixed with the timing. I think you are on to something with the whole electrical grounds because from my knowledge, anodizing is a poor conductor and it might be better to have an external ground instead of an engine ground because even slight temperature changes and vibration can affect conductivity. I would try adding a separate ground or grounds and doing a full check on all wiring and if you can, adding a second spark plug location. I'm also just overall concerned with the NA capabilities of an engine this size due to overall effectiveness and efficiency
I’d like to see a clip edited into your video of the boat running flat out on the water when done to see its mph.
That's what I want to see ❤
Hemi flame propagation is normally not very good so they need a LOT more timing lead than a wedge motor and such a huge motor might not play nice with a single spark plug. Aircraft motors are about the same size cylinder and they use dual spark plugs to lessen the timing lead needed to get the fire all the way across the piston. When I first saw the combustion chambers on the Big Black Hemi I was surprised it didn't have dual plugs and think it would run better lighting the fire in two places vs the one it's using now.
O2 sensors don't read right if the fuel being injected doesn't burn...so you can be super fat yet the sensors will show lean. It's blowing black smoke which means it's not burning the fuel...and this shows on the plugs.
They use dual plugs, for a safety.
They also have dual ignitions.
BUT not used at same time.
It’s in case 1st ignition failure.
The second one can be used.
@@metalted6128No, they absolutely run with both sparks for better power and efficiency.
It can run on one if needed.
@@metalted6128 Wrong.
@@metalted6128 During run-up you always do a 'mag check' where you kill one mag and then the other and you're looking for an rpm drop if they're working right.
Redundancy was a side benefit of the dual plugs and magneto's....the flame propagation is SO slow across the huge piston that at aircraft engine speeds you need to light it in two places to get it all burned in time for proper piston position.
Air plane engines have two plugs and two mags so that if one fails you have back up. Has zero to do with timing
Hi Steve, you said you read the comments. I hope my input is helpfull. I am probably not about to say anything you dont already know. But with good intentions. I see no downside to throw out some thoughts. Honestly so many things came to mind watching I wish I could have afforded to fly down and have a look in person.
Looked like TPS was moving on the logs. If so was AE being excited on and off blasting fuel shots causing the A/F spikes your seeing? It would also explain the black plugs.
AE roc blanking might have to be turned up to filter out tps scatter. But also on the dyno I would reccomend shutting all the AE modifiers off. You dont need tip in on the dyno anyway.
Next. Did you try it in open loop? If the O2 sample rate is too high or any anomally is giving false O2 readings. You will be able to see the issue go away in open loop. What is the O2 speed setting at?
Grounding is important. But all those grounds can cause ground loops further agrivating things. Especially if any AC ripple is present from things like example: electric water or fuel pumps or battery charging devices, secondary ignition leaks etc. Why would you throw the boost to it when it has a running issue that at the least is fuel foulling plugs. Something is unhappy and needs fixing before you crank boost into the poor thing. Throw a carb on it if need be to be sure it is not a valvetrain annomally? The shutting off thing was scary. If thats from fuel that needs to be looked at before adding boost imo. Point the timing light toward you and tape the trigger down. Watch it during the run and if the engine misses or shuts off again you will see the light flash interupt.
The BSAC and
The BSFC are going to give clues here if valve motion is interupted.
If only bsfc is wooobly. And bsac stays smooth. Then its likely valve control has been maintained.
Again. I am sure you already are all over this and more. But it never hurts to reach out and share some thoughts.
Thanks for your videos. Very entertaining for a used old man like me.
Cheers!
just had to drop a comment to say how amazing this video was.
Actually the winner's guess was closer than you said. He guessed 1, 045 and the actual was 1,044.7; so he only missed by .3 HP, not 1 full HP. That's a pretty &%$# GOOD guess...!! Congrats!
.29 horsepower :)
1044hp out of 14L! thats 74hp per liter.
Steve for grounding high frequency noise, you should use a flat braided cable, not regular wire like you used in the video. The "Z" which is impedance in Ohms is to high on regular wire to ground noise due to skin effect. Braided cable has more surface area and lower Z at high frequency. This is why the auto manufacturers use flat braided cable between the body and the engine on modern vehicles. It would be wise to do this in your wagon also. Another way of saying it, not all ground wires are created equal.
1000 HP naturally aspirated at low RPM with a Cam designed for boosted applications and Pump gas and he's disappointed. Steve Morris problems' That things gonna be beastly.
A 632 will push 1000hp so almost 300 cubes more should be much higher so yeah makes sense
@@thekid3999 The 632 is 12:1 compression from the crate
@@Datek99899 You watch his new videos? He had the wrong cam in it. and he was using an undersized cam shaft.
I had a customer that had ground issues and it created an intermittent misfire and a cam signal loss and it did all sorts of crazy things. He was on a motec ECU turned out. Somebody installed an oil cooler in the fender well and there was a junction harness it had about six grounds for the ECU, and they put it on a rubber Gromit.
Chasing electrical problems can be a nightmare
My guess is 1770 hp at 25 psi boost for this black monster!
As a harness designer and builder mainly Motec systems your example is the type of stuff that gives me nightmares. Pretty hard to fly to a site and troubleshoot an issue that was "self induced" by the tech who made an install error and charge customer for such accordingly. That said the amount of mental effort SM puts into his creations is mind boggling. We tend to relate to such as "science projects". Differences in grounding potentials can cause disasters and lord knows how that boat is wired.
Just love it, the things you learn from watching a Steve Morris video. Nobody else does the detail of problems and solutions as much as the SM channel.
You said it.
I like the fact that he doesn't try to hide stuff either. He shows the full struggle, including the rare occasion when he makes a mistake. Regardless, this is not a mechanic or a technician. The stuff he does is nothing short of engineering IMHO
Steve did us dirty on the paint reveal. 😁
😅😂 right....
Lol
Are the water cooled headers somehow effecting the air fuel reading? There are three things out of the normal for this dyno run. Big cubic inch, anodizing, and water cooled headers. Tthe cubic inch with the small cam can be some of the problem. I think you fiixed the grounding problem. Maybe it's the headers.
Where are the O2 sensors mounted? Water is affecting the O2 sensors.
Thats what i was thinking, grounding issue on the o2's from the powdercoated water jackets causing them to freak out.
This Monster needs more AIR, YOURE STARVING THE INTAKE!!!
Festinating dyno video. Something didn't seem right the whole time I was watching. Then I realized, Gretta is missing! HOW DARE YOU!
I’ve been in manufacturing maintenance for 30 years.
Trouble shooting, finding the simplest failure, is so frustrating at times. I always start with the simplest thing first.
Even more so with a one off motor.
Great job SME!!
Many times my brain hurts thinking about why!!
I feel your pain, Steve!!
Steve, I don’t even attempt to claim one tenth of your engine building/tuning knowledge. However, I will say this… Welcome to the world of Hemi tuning. I was always a big block Chevy guy turned Hemi guy and what we learned is that the cross flow is so much greater in a Hemi that you throw out most of what you know about tuning wedge engines. Generally if a Hemi doesn’t look like a coal furnace it is either down on power or nibbling on parts. Just what we have seen in our experience. Good luck
If this ain’t the dang truth!!!!! I went from a 540 conventional headed bbc to a hemi setup. Hurt the dam thing right off the trailer
what do you mean by it looking like a coal furnace. can you elaborate a little on what hemis like.
What I mean is that it really needs to be A LOT richer than you think. If the plugs don’t look sooty on gas or way over fueled on alky they are typically not happy
@@65vette396 where do you think the af should be on N/A hemi on gas but smaller CU and higher reving..12s 11s?
@@k20edef1 That’s a very loaded question as every combination will want something different to be happy, but what I would tell you is that I would absolutely start very fat and slowly work towards leaning it out with very small steps. When it stops making large gains definitely stop. But we have a gear jammers car with a 13.5:1 528 Hemi and it’s perfectly happy in the low 11’s on afr or where you would typically run a boosted wedge. It is however on Q16 an oxigenated fuel so that probably affects it a little bit as well.
You could tell in Steve’s voice how happy and passionate he is about his wagon. It’s fantastic. The BBH is a humongous beast and a unique critter. Let’s see what happens now when the Biggest charger goes on it Support from 🇦🇺🇦🇺
👍🏼🏁😎
Two tons of fun in unexpected ways makes for huge 💩-eating 😃.
(Your profile pic makes me assume that you're a solid member of this🥳club.)
a "dark mode" on the software onscreen would be so so pretty imo
2288hp ;)
my guesstimate for why it stalls out because of the amount of air is too little, since she soots like a diesel when letting go at high rpm she must be rich. meaning too little air. sometimes one has so much knowledge about a thing that one forgets the simplest things. like when you make a perfect solderjoint the gorram shrink is on the table when you triumphantly smile:)
Yeah the yourdyno software is a bit bright i agree. Its customizable but i cant be bothered adjusting every colour.
I've done the soldering thing so many times 😂
I wish government ran and change like an engine Turner.Cause it's like we have a broken fuel pump.But they say the system's is fine,brain fart I'll go back to sheep
you would think a 903ci engine.. would hit atleast 15-1800 HP before even tuning or power adders... crazy
I do that backing stuff all day, every day. I deliver fencing materials. I love you, Steve, get over it and drive your stuff!
I wonder if because it’s only 9:1 and normal unleaded fuel it’s sooty on the plugs because it’s inefficient up there. Be cool to try a high oxygen fuel to see if it helps it along as the revs climb. Motorsport109 maybe??
Lots of random problems. Good to sort before boosting. Strikes me that higher rpm fuel not matching air very well because fuel system doesn't care about rpm but ofcouse diminishinging returns with respect to cylinder filling. Add in slower flame front and less charge compression and slower flame front as a result. Add in anomalies about swirl and mixing fuel. Plugs asked to cope with different combustion pressures etc. I kind of wonder why engines of this cost are not running variable valve timing. We change when the spark fires but are not letting the cam do same thing.
Is it possible that you're losing ignition strength at higher rpm because of eddy currents caused by anodizing? That would explain why spark deteriorated and starts to become less accurate. You can ground the coils better, but if the heads are not well grounded to the block, and the block has points of resistance to other grounded areas, then it can create weird Eddy currents that disrupt high discharge events. I thought I remember seeing that the block deck was anodized. Hope that helps.
There appears to be a Electronic ignition issue Steve Morris. Ignition Dwell coil saturation time. Controlled by FET Transistors. Its best checked by Vintage Auto Oscilloscopes. Or by an Electronic Technician Engineer Grade Storage Oscilloscope.
No way to use a Magneto ignition with EFI Full control.
I prefer Magneto ignitions myself simple and reliable. Magnetos have Double The Burn time in crank degrees measured Vs any Electronic ignition CD or Coil on plug. All Magnetos generate AC Current Vs DC Current with all battery ignitions.
Also have Slew Rates changes with all electronic ignitions.
Magnetos the Slew Rate remains dead on the money Zero aa Rpms increase.
Put a 540 big block Chevrolet in the boat and use that hemi thing as the BOAT ANCHOR. Embarrassing.
Afr,"speed sensor, ground. Up down up down. then way up way down. You say turn water off. In video. Cavatation of air fule or ground? Id run that by your boy... cange dynoes. Only thing worse than no data is bad datta. Your going to figure it out.
Been looking forward to the paint reveal since this rebuild started. Wraps are nice, and definitely have their place, but for nice custom stuff like this the old custom painter's saying applies: "If it ain't paint, it ain't schitt"
Could the water in the exhaust be contaminating the EGT readings? Food for thought.
I do a lot of wiring stuff, grounds are a must on all these electrical sensors. Did you ground the exhaust too, if the O2 are mounted to them
please stop the tease of tune in next week 30s serial to see if our hero escapes. if not I will be leaving paided channel member, I am to old for that kid stuff
Have u thought about moister from the jacketed exhaust messing with the 02 sensor
I think this is a ground problem, electrical system isn’t happy. I would make sure that everything is grounded. You might even need to run a large separate ground from the battery and run all of the grounds to it instead of relying on the block.
When they made don garlic run the hemi he hated it he cranked the timing to it to blow it up so he could go back to his old combo and it finally come alive
Garlits, not garlic!!! LOL
And also remember that was on nitro not 93 pump gas lol.
It was the 426 Hemi that Garlits tried to blow up because he couldn’t get it to run as fast as his tried and true 392 Hemi. The larger bore of the 426 needed more lead vs the 392 to get everything in the chamber to burn.
@@leftyo9589- In Bakersfield he was Don Garbage!
Those big motors should have a pre combustion chamber super rich to get the flame travel going. Would of course have to redesign the head. Definitely needs two plugs a hole.
I mean I'd like to know what your air density and how much I want to know how much are you pushing through that beast every revolution.
Hate to say it but might be better off with a tunnel ram and a couple of big dominators and a promag
On some runs 15 and 17 maybe more I noticed a flash near the back of the motor under the intake and above the valley cover, near the end of each run. What was that?
Wouldn’t the water in the headers mess with the O2 readings?
Disclaimer - I am the furthest thing from a tuner or even a good mechanic. Question of genuine curiosity.
One of the guesses should be how many gallons of fuel were used to get through it!😂
Time 2000 note how the shutters in the dyno wall such shut at high RPM. This is even worse with high HP motors. There isn't enough make up air going in to the dyno room, the end result is an engine operating at high altitude NA. .
A 1000 n/a on a low compression engine sounds pretty good to me
Wild to see an engine making 1000hp reliably, and have it be not happy, but that’s cause Steve does wild stuff! Very cool to watch the stuff this shop accomplishes!
Zero confidence in diagnostics, and backing a trailer 😂
Steve kicks ass!
Nice troubleshooting ...... my guess for the boosted beast black hemi is 2,232HP @ 25psi.
That was a dirty misdirection dirty trick of a tease and not showing us the wagon paint reveal .... just sayin'.
2045 hp boost
that throttlebody seems restrictive for 900+ CID
Love the boost, clean out the old charge, force it to breathe!
If you have EMI/EMF noise issues it’s probably best to run dual shielded cables with drains to all your sensors and ignition wires rather then just regular wire. You can also add ferrites to the wires to collect an other EMI / EMF. It can definitely give you cause readings. Proper grounding methods are important but just adding multiple random grounds won’t do much. You can actually create a ground loop.
It's hard to say what's going on watching a video. It's much better being there. I would think running the grounds back to battery or starter. If the starter is ok with the ground so will everything else. I would have liked to see the exhaust manifolds and where the O2 sensors are mounted. Not sure but at the end it looked like he put the system in "open loop" to take the O2 sensors out of it, old school. I think Steve knows what's going on at the end of the day. The cam wasn't right for NA. Steve doesn't say how much lift or duration of cam. Since the power is good at lower RPM it needs more air at higher RPM to make big HP. I missed how much boost they'll run. 12-15 should wake it up at high RPM. As a tech it's interesting to watch someone go through trouble shooting to find the problem. I'm sure there was a lot more off camera. Normal people have no idea how frustrating it can be and how wonderful it is when you find the problem.
glad you show the struggles. that's where you learn
903 CID holy crap! 😯
Still making over 1,000 with an ignition related misfire lol
Big girl just needs a bigger cam for power at 6500. More torque than hp suggests under cammed. Tighten the valve lash and if it improves it wants more cam.
Im sure itll make about 1763hp on boost. Always great engine builds! Thanks for the information!
STILL A BIT "BUMPY" , STEVE! 1345HP AND TORQUE PRETTY EQUAL.......LEAVE IT THERE ONCE YOU GET THAT MONSTER TUNED IN..,....
that wavy AF is missfires, maybe small chance but could have valve bounce, been there done that. Need WAY MORE IGNITION, like a 44amp mag and 120 thou plug gap
The fact that you are having to work hard to get the best performance out of the engine makes for a great video. I am sorry you had to suffer through it to make us this video.
One thing is certain, you can definitely hear when it's happier on a pull.
Even big tube double wall headers will kill a normal 598 boat engine, I cant imagine these being much more than 2 1/4 ID. And the sharp 90 degree bends as well. A 900 inch can move a lot of cfm, but only if it can get out. The blower will probably clean it up.
with boost 1640 hp and 1780 torque my guess with 25 pounds boost.....Love you're shows Steve can't wait to see Wagon I got excited for nothing on this Video lol. Take care god bless.
My guess on power would be based somewhat on my 540 cu in mopar ... it makes 960 on pump 110.. so I would have guessed in the mid 1400's..
If I have my memory right. Steve checks NA first. If it did any of this unhappiness, it could damage stuff at boost.
I never got a chance to post the other day when the other video came out, but my N/A guess was 1050hp, so pretty close.
For boosted, my guess is going to be 2575hp.
Dohc, coil on plug.
Is a beautiful thing.
A lot more accurate.
Push rod motors. Are awesome, and super cool, hot rod/ racing motors but Dohc is the way go.
And can make ALOT of hp!!
Check out snot rocket!!!
36 👍's up Steve Morris thank you for sharing 🤗
29 degrees at, let us say 110 LSA gives us 278 degrees at 0.50" lifter rise, yes?
Fair for 9.0:1 compression ratio, but a bit low for a seriously undersquare 2V engine tryning to push max power to 6500 rpm. I would guess. :)
Lb/ft/CID always tells a lot.
What is the intake flow to engine volume ratio?
My crazy math I have no idea where I got the idea from says 2161hp on 15lbs. Since we have no idea how much boost you’re going to throw at it that’s my guess.
hi, sorry for your troubles. I know a guy who got f--- ed into the ground with bad grounds. It came down to the "capicity of the ground" I.E. the amount of amperage the ground was capable of carring to complete he circuit. good luck
2ga minimum battery cable with crimped lugs from the headers, valve covers and intake manifold to ground.
I miss the big stains on the dyno glass…😊
Okay…I posted on the last one thinking it was going to be boosted. I’m sticking with my 2433 boosted guess.
I would guess a huge duration cam with wide LSA required to pull past 6K rpm on that large of displacement.
Idk for probably 100k less wouldnt the Chevy 632ci crate engine work just fine 😂. Makes the same 1000hp on pump
Need a Leather Seat Now.... Woodgrain with the Leather Seats lol and tint the windows Master P Reference for those that Dont Know... The OG DRIP
Mutha!! I actually thought we were gonna see the wagon at the end. 😂
Amusing to see...
im just into retarding the cam a lot......
Start with 5degrees!
should be above 1200hp to me!
Torque under 4000rpm, who cares!!!!
nice video and nice that you share the challenge that can be!
On boost, it should make 2819.5hp with a 2.7 pressure ratio (24.99psig) but since it's blown, maybe 300hp less, 2519hp
Hey Steve, powder coatings area non conductive. They act like an insulator. They can cause misfires.
I haven't seen anyone comment that you made 2 #15 pulls, it is just mind boggling to me what all goes into turning these high end motor's but if I ever have one built it will be one of your's.
I will say this…Personally I will never use Holley EFI on any of My personal builds again. I want to smash it all with a sledgehammer. My Dominator box will do things that make no sense. When you ask for help from Holley this is what I get….🤷IDK..never heard of that, Must be something you did. Ohh, So you spent 5k dollar’s on it..…..Sorry its a potted box, can’t fix it.
It seems to me not enough spark for the airflow. Or not enough airflow for a proper mixture for a clean burn. You know Steve, put the boost to it and it will be normal. It will run like it should. That’s why it was designed this way, if NA you would have to add a spark plug or change the location of the spark plug and injector. I love what your doing and I can’t wait to see the next one!
Hey Stevie Buddy it looks like 903 or the 959 are not exactly the regular fare at your establishment ..So I get it...Yes that is Huge . But somewhere in my memory banks I recall you tell us something like Your NOT a Big Fan of BIG inch Boosted applications so unless you have had a change of heart it looks like your a Big fan of BIG inch boosted applications NOW what changed ? I think you mentioned an issue with unsupported rings ...
Can't believe a pro charger would be used in a boat application after seeing the number failures in 4 second drag race cars, considering the constant cavitation and loading the boat will see. You can tell a man with too much money, but you can't tell him how to waste it? run in at 6500 and turn off and on the dyno load every 20 seconds for a hour and that is what it will see in the boat. Dude better be one hell of throttle man.
I work a distribution warehouse that carry like car vinyl. And we move a lot of vinyl from 3M and a couple other huge vinyl companies and we have wood grain vinyl that would blow your mind we even carry real carbon fiber vinyl. I could get you a sample mailed out for couple different wood ones
Voltage drop testing from your 12V source/ battery terminals. Only way to truly see electrical resistance.
You're ground-looping. Consolidate all of the grounds at one location.
Big hemi like that, it would be nice if it had dual spark plugs. How much trouble would it be to remachine the heads for dual plugs? Less spark advance required, more positive ignition of the charge.
Damn I guessed 5 horsepower more than him hopefully it carries out a little better supercharged if so I'm going to be pretty damn close congratulations to the winner
STEVE, DO NOT GET BODY WORK DONE BY HIBACHI AUTO BODY! KEEP BUILDING MCFARLAND RACING GRADE MOTORS...... YOU'RE THE BEST AT WHAT YOU DO......H.A.B. SUCK!
I battled resistor spark plugs on a coyote with a msd pro 600 nobody made any at the time and nobody new that. finally fuel tech told me there high output cdi box u can’t run a resistor plug and we had to have a batch made pita. car would free rev great the second any load it would hit a ghost rev limiter.
How much does a big bore long block hemi cost??
I am not sure if I should purchase a gen 3 hemi or old style hemi ?
Application will be for strip/street challenger 2010 to 2024. Maybe sportsman category for strip?
My father was explaining that to me about his 392 hemi he built back when he was younger the timing has to be way advanced
"Rap looks like crap." Well yeah it sounds like crap too!........
Ohhh, *_WRRAAAP_* ! 😂😂👍
boost makes everything better .....until it doesn"t. I learn alot from your channel .[not like i'll ever use it on my car] I LOVE the tech !!
I’ve had the wideband jump on Holley systems before due to fuel boiling in the lines.
So I just bought a SM shirt, but I've got to say its pretty consistent across youtube that NONE of you guys have a Pocket Tee! I gonna take my money to the store that has one. Been diggin your videos Steve ,keep up the Good work!
Well one thing for sure this video series has shown the problems encountered with one off custom engines. Also the most surprising to me was the impact low compression has on overall power output. N/A I would have guessed another 180 hp more than it made.
i have backed a 42' goose trailer into Todds driveway - TRICKY!
Am I the only one who thinks thise exhaust headers don't look real, they look plastic (I know they are metal) it's just throwing me off!!
That color is so bright and vibrant!!!
With the coil leads, I do recall a problem with a different engine where someone changed their spark-plug brand and started to have problems - turned out they were just that much shorter that there wasn't a direct connection but there was enough voltage to jump that gap and the gap at the tip, until the cylinder pressures built up and there was insufficient voltage for reliable ignition.
You mentioned earlier that a mis-fire does look like a lean AFR/lambda, so later with the "20:1" it'd underline it being an ignition issue, especially if otherwise it seemed to be a "rich" mixture.
I've had to cut the spark plug boots, hate those style wires. I'll always pull the spring inside to lengthen the boot for a good snap connection.
As recoilrob324 said, I think it might be an issue with the slow flame propagation of the hemi mixed with the timing. I think you are on to something with the whole electrical grounds because from my knowledge, anodizing is a poor conductor and it might be better to have an external ground instead of an engine ground because even slight temperature changes and vibration can affect conductivity. I would try adding a separate ground or grounds and doing a full check on all wiring and if you can, adding a second spark plug location. I'm also just overall concerned with the NA capabilities of an engine this size due to overall effectiveness and efficiency