The Culture Show "Girls Will Be Girls" BBC 2 Women in Punk
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Documentary about women in Punk Rock with awesome unseen footage. Directed by Martina Hall, presented by Miranda Sawyer (2014)
I do not own any copyrights on this film.
At the height of the punk explosion almost 40 years ago, a handful of women completely redefined what a woman in music could do. Through sheer talent and fearlessness they pushed themselves on to a male dominated music scene and became part of a movement that radically changed the cultural landscape.
Along with Siouxsie Sioux, Poly Styrene and Chrissie Hynde, the Slits were among punk's most important figures and Viv Albertine, their guitarist, has just brought out her memoir 'Clothes, Clothes, Clothes, Music, Music, Music, Boys, Boys, Boys' which chronicles her life as part of this revolutionary vanguard.
Miranda Sawyer meets up with Viv Albertine and some of the other key female figures of the era including Chrissie Hynde, The Raincoats, and punk anti-heroine Jordan to look at how they inspired a generation of young women with the notion that anyone could do anything if they wanted to. Plus she explores whether the punk spirit still survives today.
i always thought siouxsie sioux was THE coolest name
Chrissie and Poly as well.
YESS 😭😭😭
The fucking irony of Sid telling anyone they couldn't play well enough to be in a band.
Well the better you play the better it’ll cover my shitty playing 😉
Another all-girl punk band were Kleenex (later renamed Liliput) from Switzerland, who toured with the Raincoats and Lora Logic. The British press gave them nicknames like the 'New Slits' and the 'Swiss Slits.'
Kleenex? Forgot all about them.
Didn't they do Heidi's Head? The video's on here.
Women need a new, way more outrageous and in your face punk scene. I'd start it if i wasnt lonely and tired.
Yeah,always loved punk but being at the vanguard of something takes so much energy.Probably even more so if you're a woman.
listen to the band called Fuck you pay us (f.u.p.u) very in your face watch the live video that is like 43 or 47 minutes or so for best audio quality. lyrics are out there.
Im 15 and im into punk
I’m in my mid 20’s and at 15 the riot girl movement inspired me much..hope to be in a band!
@@mlovell643 They are a racist band that spew white hate. I love punk, not racism.
We were truly blessed to have these women around in our youth.
As far as I'm concerned.. there has never been & will never be.. anything sexier than a skinhead girl!!!
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So funny that Sid told Liv she couldn't play well enough!! Laughing out loud!! Haha
"It's perhaps the time of the older woman, you know, and why not?" - Gina Birch, The Raincoats 26:45
Jean Smith
Loved that statement!🤘
@Eric Decuir Death weren't a punk band. The term punk for this form of music was coined by the journalist Caroline Coon at a much later date. Punk was totally inclusive and bands in the UK played a lot of benefit gigs for the Rock Against Racism organisation. Don't suddenly be divisive, celebrate all of these brave and inspirational people regardless of race or gender, that is the spirit of punk.
@Eric Decuir I saw the documentary about them and it was fascinating. They certainly had all the DIY elements of early punk and great tunes. They reminded me of the Chambers Brothers for standing out from the crowd and not being held down to any particular genre for their time.
Love the old lady smell that women start getting in their 40s
@@luismangiaterra1031 Can you describe it...???🤔
No one calls this 'borrowing' of punk aesthetic appropriation. At the very least it's utter bullshit. Being tormented in school because of how I dressed was not fun but I never toned it down . Probably those same people are wearing spiked bracelets and colored hair now with no idea where it came from, just that a pop star did it, so they would too.
Yes, but at least it’s getting exposure and might save some one else all the headaches which is great imho 😊
What about the women from Crass? What about Poison Girls? RIP Poly Styreine
It's the BBC. Did you ever hear Crass or Poison Girls on the BBC?
Great Documentary but missed out one seminal Artist, Eve Libertine of Crass and her version of the feminist manifesto the incredible LP that is "Penis Envy" not an easy listen at all but definitely an album that cant be ignored
Have you tried listening to ‘Yes sir,I will’?.That is hard to listen to.
Saw the Slits in Derby supporting the Clash. Memorable night in 1978.
I went to that.
Poly Styrene was a brilliant intelligent songwriter,thanks for uploading.
23:55 "My policy is if Lemmy wouldn't do it, don't ask me to do it." That is why I will always love Chrissie Hynde.
Lemmy wouldn't have appeared in ''Friends''
Reply
Fucking great statement, that !
She's so powerful
*Luv Chrissie, she's a great character, singer and musician. And I love The Pretenders &her Telecaster's chrystalline sound, I just saw this 'Live In L.A.' dvd, what an amazing live band!* PS: Lemmmyyy! (restinpowermate...)
SHES ABOUT AS HOT AS LEMMY...FRIENDS SUCK
Raincoats and Siouxsie are so great
"No women had ever done this before"? Ummm Wrong. Patti Smith. Hello!
She is not a full band. Goodbye.
@@heraldeventsandfilms5970 Neither was Poly Styrene. Goodbye.
Fanny were an all girl rock band from the early 1970s also. If you want to go way back you can look at influential maverick females like Big Mama Thornton or Bessie Smith. The list goes on.....
@@aaarrrggghhhh Ignorant see you NT.
@@heraldeventsandfilms5970 You are. Neither was Siouxsie, Debbie Harry, Nina Hagen, Suzi Quatro etc.......
What about gee vaucher ,Eve libertine , joy de vivre from CRASS??
The BBC wouldn't play them then, they won't play them now. The most popular band in the UK late 70's/early 80's, yet NEVER heard on the radio.
How weird that they make this big deal about Poly Sterene being ‘not typically beautiful’ etc when she was clearly absolutely gorgeous…!
Like utterly gorgeous, no?
A babe for sure
@@mr.onethirtyeight5088 she had the old lady smell even when she was young, that's real punk.
Before punk, especially in the north and the Midlands as it took punk longer to take off in those places, there was a look people had to have especially teenage girls and young women if you don't want to be labelled as slutty on the one hand or square and uptight on the other hand. Hemlines had to be at a certain length and eye shadow a certain colour. Kipper ties, thick moustaches, platform shoes and bell bottoms for men. The fast lads in their platform shoes, v-necks and Oxford bags. Looking back they looked so ridiculous in the way Noddy Holder did. They intimidated me so much that when I was 15 I would hide in friend's house near the school for half an hour or more rather than walk home alone as I didn't have any friends who lived near me. My parents' house was on their route home.
Creativity was thwarted and you couldn't do anything differently or stand out in the crowd and punk did away with all that. You couldn't dance on the dance floor except in certain set dances. It was a nothing time between skinheads, rockers and hippies and the start of punk and they didn't have a tribal name so they would have been the chavs of their time. Girls in the 70's were often photographed looking down as that is often how they sat, stood walked and danced. They had regressed from the way the mod girls and the hippy chicks of the 60's behaved. Punk girls were the first to look directly at people, out in front of them and at the camera again.
Thanks for elaborating on this. The added context makes these artists even more amazing to me.
the X Ray Specs kicked ass. My favorite girl punk band.
They were not a girl punk band though.
Loved the lyrics but not so much the music.
@@lemsip207 One of the best original punk albums .. Germfree Adolescents ... pure punk rock.
Spex - how did you get the spelling wrong if they were your favourite?
X_ ray SPEX...girl band??? WHEN THE FUCK WAS THEY A GIRL BAND ???? LORA LOGIC. POLYSTYRENE AND THE REST WERE YOUNG MEN!!!!!!!!!!
Penelope Houston and her band Penetration were overlooked.
Great doc. The punk women who pioneered so much and took huge risks should never be forgotten. In the early to mid 80s in furthest Northern Britain there was a great Punk Goth scene and as a big collective we had great times together true equality.
"We're all anti establishment these days" yet we constantly vote the establishment in to power, in reality we've learned nothing...
And how can a Docu about women in Punk give Poly Styrene such a small mention....
I do like Miranda Sawyer - the presenter of this programme - but I do feel as if she's not really spent that much time working on her commentary. There's no real insight or analysis here and it very much feels like 'Women in punk - a beginner's guide'.
thank you for uploading this video !
I really would have liked to live in this time……!!
Tottally wrong😮
WHY YOU'VE TO COMPLAIN,FIGHT ALL THE TIME...
Slits one" said
AFTER 7 YEARS YOU'LL BE TIRED OF IT😂
YOU DONT HAVE TO...❤
Chrissie is something else. A real legend.
Nice one. Thanks for uploading Sarah Bee! Nice to see a documentary that digs a little deeper than usual in the subject :)
Total respect to them all..... better than anything in the pop world today imo
The Slits are .ucking Brilliant!!!!
By the way we must never forget the crazy and utterly talented Faye Fife of the Rezzillos pure magic
Not enough SIOUXSIE!
Totally agree. Siouxsie was the true female star of punk.
No Pauline Murray? Shame
'70's britian wasn't the land of opportunity' - guess what, it wasn't for the majority of men either.
We can have another revolution that embodies danger, defiance, controversy, etc, but no anger towards the mainstream? No one wants to stick it to commercial pop and rap? Not only is this sad, but really pathetic
*Yep!*
where can I see Here to be heard? It is no longer on amazon Prime
Thx a lot! Really inspired a lot and deeply touched by female punk. A kinda symbolic freedom for me, a little girl feels desperate and so much limited in CHN! 🤟🏼🤟
The birth of feminism was more around 1900-1920.
Thank you sooooo much for posting this! Will def post this on the BUST magazine blog.
You're welcome! Thanks, that would be nice if more people could see this inspirational documentary!
Can’t see any reference, to my favourite female punk artist, Pauline Murray of Penetration, why?
Otherwise great video
They are beautiful, true punk rock divas
What’s the track playing just after the Culture Show intro credits roll….slow start then speedy?
Siouxsie Sioux is a God!
Viv is so articulate, she's still a catalyst.
Dude that record cover for “cut” was put up as a billboard!? Now that’s good and punk rock right there!! Amazing documentary.
thanks a loooot for that. FUCK YESSSSSS
Many thanks for this!!!!
You're welcome!
I read Viv Albertine's book and she only had one child and not until later. After leaving the Slits she took up fitness and became an aerobics teacher at Pineapple and then took a film making course before she met her husband. She found it difficult to get pregnant at first.
and your point is....
@@sirensongsindia - probably regarding the presenters comment about retreating into motherhood...Viv Albertine didn't become a mother until a long while after The Slits. In fact, Ari Up being pregnant with her twin sons was a leading factor in the group disbanding. Point being that domesticity was not a factor in V.A's retreat from the punk scene :-)
Thanks for uploading this.
I enjoyed this. I have grown to appreciate punk. Despite the supposed connection to a downturn in the fortunes of rock.
Thanks!
Love it! :) Very inspirational. I dont think Miley Cyrus is a true Feminist though. In fact I think she is the furtherest thing from a Feminist you can possibly get and only reinforces the idea to men that women are just sexual objects there to please and to be used and objectified. Her behavior also promotes promiscuity but unfortunately women think its okay just because men do it. The thing is its wrong for anyone to be doing, man or woman and that should be the Feminist message.
Mary Rose Roche
You seriously misunderstand feminism if you think 'discouraging promiscuity' should be a priority. Newsflash, its 2015. Sex is not the enemy.
+Mary Rose Roche I think Miley Cyrus can't be considered particularly feminist for her racism.
+Siren 👍👍
+Arianrhod Hyde Two things : What makes you think all feminists aren't racist ? Cos yr one thing you must be another ? Walk round the block maybe. Whether MC is racist or not is hard to define , since Miley is not herself. She's a monarch kitty or some such other nasty Nazi head fuck. Anyway... she shouldn't be labelled as anything other than a mind control victem.
Look, are there racist feminists? Yeah. But the idea behind feminism is equality for all women, including women of colour. Therefore, racist people (like Miley Cyrus) aren't really feminist because they're only active in support for some women, not all women. I'm not sure how feminist she is other than that.
+Siren No u seriously misunderstand feminism. There is many enemies to women AND men, not just rape. I pity u that u seem to think sex and promiscuity are one. They are not. There is nothing wrong with enjoying sex. I never said that. I totally support women having healthy sexual relationships but in the confines of a loving relationship where they are treated with respect, not a sexual object. Its a fact promiscuity increases the spread of STDs and unwanted pregnancy. Its HARMFUL to women.
+Mary Rose Roche there's this thing called a condom. A healthy sexual relationship doesn't need to be monogomous. In fact sex workers actually have a lower rate of STIs than the general population due to frequent testing and condom usage.
+Siren Maybe you should read what you said Oxymoron !
20: 40 they do protest too much but its suits the narrative . With the Slits are this talk of typical macho men who attacked them is over egged. They were deliberately provocative in dress and language and took some flak at concerts as anyone, male punks, or effeminate men, or anyone " different" did at that time. Ari Up was" in your face mad" as so she would have courted some trouble without any help. Its all part of their " backpack" to beat on about how badly there were treated. I lived through the time and knew Delta 5 and other groups in Leeds. Attacks on students and musicians were VERY rare and most " typical men" and people of the era had never heard of them and couldnt give a shit besides.
Great documentary...but do we need that chancer presenting it....can't remember her name....rent-a-gob.....
I have never heard of such tripe in my life. This posh middle-class woman ( Sarah Bee ) probably has no lived experience of the time but dogmatically speaks about it as though she has firsthand knowledge. Growing up in the 70s as a school kid and a teenager, punk was a scream from a population that was being repressed and that had had enough of being told you are worthless and conform to what we say, and nearly always from the same middle class, She herself comes from. The Women of that time had the same thought process as the men but needed to express their own disillusioned experiences of that society in their own way to express their anger at how they were being marginalised. The trope that it only happened in London in these years is just another method to limit the history of what happened. There are bands and artists such as Vice Squad and Toyah who are simply cut out from this history; this seems yet again another attempt by another middle-class person to make a tidy package of that time to make money from it. Punk Rock is now another commercial package.
The Dishrags (all female punk band from Vancouver Canada)
(( DISCOGRAPHY ))
Past Is Past (1979) 7"ep
Death In The Family (1980) 7"ep
Love/Hate (1996) complete discography cd lp
(( VIDEOS ))
Past Is Past
I Don't Love You (live)
Love Is Shit (live)
they were innovators in that they expanded the technical deficiency of punk.
Not women a whole women and men equal punks by this time pc feminism was old together 1 unit punk respect
Viv Albertine,Polly,Gaye advert and sousie got better as they got older.♥️
The old lady smell is what really does it.
@@luismangiaterra1031 be kinder to yourself
@@hjillumi880 something smells fishy
would be nice if there was Kleenex doc.
21:13 Quote: "Few female artists, if any, had posed topless on their album covers." - Prior to punk, the female member of the band Elephant's Memory appeared topless (and body-painted) alongside the male group members on their 1969 debut LP. Elephant's Memory were a rock group who was sometimes associated with John & Yoko, who of course were also famously nude (& non-sexual) on the cover of their Two Virgins LP in 1968. Then, back within the punk scene, in 1976 Deborah Harry wore a see-thru blouse for a promotional poster advertising Blondie's debut album, and of course, there was Wendy O. Williams of The Plasmatics who'd been topless on 1979's Dream Lover EP and worn a see thru-top on the 1979 EP "Meet The Plasmatics" and was topless on the 1980 LP New Hope For The Wretched, and was already going topless in live performances for at least three years prior. Wendy also sometimes wrote anti-establishment messages on her body and notoriously chainsawed things in half which probably inspired the feminist activist group FEMEN to do the same in their protests.
No mention of Toyah and the classic Jubilee film?!
Actress and pop star.
Not a punk.
The Raincoats debut is truly genius record
Chrissie Hynde has never not been cool as fuck
When you see the person you hate coming at you 19:44
Great documentary. Thanks for posting 😎
When I saw the Slits they were mirockulous drunk and couldn't play.
The other band was the Rich Kids who were a bit crap.
Glasgow but I can't remember what year.
the narrator seems as punk as my neighbors aunt.
She doesn't have to be punk to present a journalistic piece about punk.
The BBC, fair enough.
In the late 70's punk sold a few million and Disco sold a few hundred Million around the world.The message was really the same that of survival in the big city.
I didnt care then and I dont care now.
Why even have men commentating on this? What, you couldn't find enough women with opinions? You've totally missed the point of women in punk.
- Vanessa
The men commenting were there and wanted women in punk. They weren't being divisive then or now, you are.
Now Viv Albertine looks like a corporate ambassador, how sad.
How's that sad? It's not like she has changed her views.
you cant look the same at 60 as you are at 20..however I know a lot who do and look great :)
Shallow.
Debbie Harry and Blondie
Viv now lives in Hampstead, polishing her middle class accent and goes to the gym
She's also old enough to justify it though, surely?
Well I can say for one that I've avoided strenuous exercise as much as possible for as long as possible and I'm still here but yeah, there's nowt wrong with it. Horses for courses, as they say...
Nick Adams there’s no doubt about the much needed impact on the music scene but as for nowadays , on a quick glance of the musicians from that era or scene , the ones famous ones whom are still famous in music or art that haven’t become the sort of folk they’d hated are - Lemmy , Sid Vicious , Boy George , The Captain ? And Jordan ( this one ) , seems ‘ normal ‘ . I’m probably about to be put right ! Love from the new forest pixies 👀
so what? johnny rotten has lived in Malibu CA for 35 years
So what? When she left the Slits she became an aerobics teacher at Pineapple Studios and was always health conscious. Siouxsie, Malcolm McClaren and Vivienne Westwood also had middle class accents. Joe Strummer famously faked a working class accent because he was middle class. As John Lydon said, 'being a punk didn't mean wearing a dirty leather jacket because that was what the Daily Mirror said punks had to do'. Punk broke down all kinds of barriers not only gender but class too.
I wanted this to be so great but even this is cliché in that they focus first and primarily on how the girls looked rather than how amazingly radical, unique and quality their music was, even compared to their male scene counterparts. It is better than nothing but could be so much better. The Slits, Raincoats and X-Ray Spex created new forms of music entirely in my opinion. That is a feat that their perhaps more famous contemporaries at that time anyway can not really say. I enjoyed it nonetheless though. Thanks for sharing!!!
elvistheripper
Well said.
How they looked was a political statement- thus the importance. How the men looked was also a huge part of punk.
Only love for this.so much love for this.
Crass ? Poison girls ? BBC !!!
Jon Jones Yeah I've just watched three of these doco's and not one mention of Crass who were fronted by women as well as men. Crass will always be my favourite.
+BunyipDemi Mine too , they've even got there own crop circle. Joint favs I'd have to say , but top firstsies for female punks. BBC n that will always skirt the true substance of true (anarcho) punk. I mean these programs can only remind me I've at least done OK at deciding my programming , and you too R kid ! I like Ari tho , corporate ness just don't come into it with Ari , just reeks of a free'd mind , and when she said how Bob Marley wasn't quite 'All that' any doubt of mine was put to rest. RIP Ari , Big Up Eve , Fuck BBC , calm down Jon.
+abbik whatever
very unlikely that the bbc would show bands like crass, fatal microbes or poision girls.. crass would be deemed as too extreme. i remember a crass album entering the uk top 40 and the radio dj didnt quite know what to make of it. the early crass record feeding of the 5000 i have on the small wonder label before crass were forced through censorship to form their own label. i thought the first album was a fantastic album
And Laura Kidd on bass.
Viv still looks very young
Polystyrene and X-ray spex just brilliant 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Viv xo
BLOODY BRILLIANT!!..
(/-\)..UP THE REBELS!!..✊😊/'...
Much respect to all. Fucking hate the today world. Never have never will. A
damn, the lyrics to that last song is my life.
No "it's" bloody not ... find real ways in which to express yourself ... get a vocabulary.
Great film
Thanks for this its one of my favourite documentaries .If you hacent already seen it check out the doc about L7 ..lol.its ace 👍
Love, love, love, ALL RESPECT!!! ( OOH Shit on it!!)
No Crass? No deal
Topically though Crass came a little later than the 'window' this doc rotates around...
Wendy o Williams
I saw all the women and the only ones I had any respect for were Poly Styrene and the Slits. After one of these shows you knew you'd been in the presence of greatness. I think transcendent is the word I'm looking for. I've always wondered if they themselves realized how great they were. I'll always appreciate how much they gave. They flashed brightly and suddenly were gone. RIP Poly and Ari.
patti smith and chrissie hynde were also great.... not british though
@@sirensongsindia Chrissie Hynde was a hanger on. An absolute nobody in the history of punk.
Could have left off that Viv performance.
OK I GET IT THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN TRUMP SUPPORTERS
Great to see and go back in time 👩🏻🌾
Omg what is the name of the last song!! It's calls to me!
Beautifully made documentary!
thanks for sharing! a must tell story
All you need is a barre chord and youre away.
That's Milly on violin at 27:27. Great musician.
Side note: I lost my VHS copy of, 'The Punk Rock Movie', that I had bought in the Castro District's, Music Factory in San Francisco sometime in 1994 and all of my Story Of The Clash cassette tapes. Damn. : (
buen documental pero la única que llegó lejos fue Hynde con su banda Pretenders
Karen O, Dum Dum Girls, Death Valley Girls, Deep Valley, La Luz, L.A. Witch, Arrow De Wilde (Starcrawler) are carring it on.