Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
@@wisevirgin3405 I think it goes deeper then that. It's a culture that's developed within many churches rather than simply individuals. We see the same thing with worship in many churches where its become worldly and resembles a music concert, whereas hymms are seen as archaic.
@@jag6138 ... No, this is the reality. When you say a "culture that has developed" you are really saying the unsaved "tares" are now the MAJORITY of the church. And that is EXACTLY what the Gospel predicted from the start. It was always a MAJOR PART of the Gospel that unsaved "tares" would infiltrate the church and the "leaven" of their false doctrines would corrupt the churches and eventually corrupt the entire Christian "Kingdom of Heaven". ----------- The "fruit" of unsaved tares is inappropriate behavior and false doctrines. So when we are talking about inappropriate behavior in the church we are only talking about the "fruit" of unsaved tares. Real saints do NOT act inappropriately in church... It is really as simple as that. We are KNOWN by our "fruit". ----------------
I worship the King and Creator of the universe at all times, even when I'm in the shower. I have a waterproof tuxedo that I wear in the shower. I also wear it when I'm swimming. I have another tux when I'm in bed. Unfortunately I have to stop worshipping God when I'm in the process of changing clothes. Those few minutes feel like pure hell. You have to dress nice when you're worshipping the Lord.
Great answer . I dress up for church because its like the only time I can look nice cause I work so much haha . .. but I think your right . I shouldn't dress up for attention or anything at church @.@ . It's not about me , it's about the Lord. I will be reconsidering my dress . But also my heart
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
Wise Virgin ....where in the Bible does it say you must wear a suit and tie? I agree a lot of people dress very inappropriately, but there is nothing wrong with going in khakis or a neat set of jeans with a nice neat shirt.....all this stuff is man made baloney
@@justanothergoy5900 Why do we go to a wedding or dinner in our best dress? Because it's a special occasion. Church is where we worship and fellowship with GOD. Why do we not wear our best then?
@@justanothergoy5900 It's not, God tells us to dress modestly, meaning that we shouldn't wear anything revealing/overtly sexual (Adam/Eve-Genesis). Also, when God tells Moses to take off his shoes because He is on Holy Ground, this tells us that our outer apparel DOES matter. When God talks about what to wear in the sanctuary in Leviticus.
I wear jeans and a button-down shirt to church... which may look casual to the older folks, but it's more upscale than I normally dress because I do feel that pull to recognize the importance of what I'm about to do. Also, I'm an usher and a deacon at my church... and when the weekly execution of those positions dictates, I wear a suit.... and I hate it. As a large 275lb man, that suit strangles and afflicts me the entire time... I'm constantly hot and sweating and strangled and uncomfortable to the point where it impedes my ability to worship without distraction. My formal dress is a burden to my ability to worship. So whatever my jeans and shirt mean to you, they mean freedom to fully engage in worship, unrestricted, for me.
John Piper should have given the REAL REMINDER that the church consists of BOTH saved "wheat/sheep" (sown by God) and unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan)... and we can tell the DIFFERENCE between them by their "fruit". Real saints do NOT act inappropriately in church. But often unsaved "tares" act inappropriately. -------------- Unfortunately, John Piper has a PROBLEM with addressing the Biblical FACT that churches consist of BOTH wheat and tares. I MIGHT be the result of him not wanting to lose church membership by "offending" the tares. That is sad. ----------------- I sincerely DOUBT that Piper has forgotten that there are both wheat and tares in the church... but I cannot remember him EVER preaching that reality. That is sad. -------------
Pastor John, I mentioned you in my latest video. You have been a tremendous blessing to me, and have taught me not WHAT to think, but HOW to think! God bless you, brother.
Very well explained. Thank you so much. I will listen it again n again to learn more about how to be dressed not only when I go to the church but wherever I go... God bless you Pastor... thanks n regards
In my experience, working class people dress up for church and upper / middle class people dress down for church. My grandad used to wear his wedding suit every Sunday as it was the only suit he owned. People who wear suits every day to work often dress down to church because they can.
God bless brother John God bless everybody amen bring that heart of yours along with the mind and soul and praise our Mighty GOD stay strong in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ and He will finish the course
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
I've thought about this too and I think that Piper's point about non-distracting is important. Tbh being on zoom gives greater flexibility. It's OK to wear what you did before at church for that's your choice then and any deviates from that is noticeable (esp to kids who are so observant). But at the same time, everyone is at home in comfortable clothes. And so if one wears something, such as a suit, then it it becomes quite distracting as everyone else be in normal wear. In general (from what I've seen), it seems a casual to semi casual wear is pretty standard and non-distracting. Finally, I really doubt this is an issue, especially among young men like us, for we never turn on our web cams during any meetings XD
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Truth. ------------
@@wisevirgin3405 Wow, someone's clothes determine their fruit? We NEVER judge according to appearance. Only by fruits laid out in Galatians 5. Appearance is not one of the fruits unless we are addressing, dressing modestly. A man can dress modestly in rags. What if its the first time someone came to church, seeking the Lord and all they have is their stripper outfits, they show up with someone looking down their nose. That person may never come back. Then what? Be humble friend, much love Jesus Christ is King
@@c.g.ryderii2405 ... Yes child the "fruit" is either behavior or false doctrine. When someone wears inappropriate clothes to church that is showing the "fruit" of disrespecting God. Do you think it's alright to disrespect God? Do you think the Elders of the church have a DUTY to ensure members do NOT disrespect God. Now... if rags is all they have, then it is NOT disrespectful... is it? ------------------ Are you aware that Jesus taught [Mat 13] the church consists of BOTH saved "wheat/sheep" (sown by God) and unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan)? Assuming you DID know that then are you aware the saints (wheat/sheep) are COMMANDED by God to (a) identify all the "tares" in the church (by their "fruit") and to (b) rebuke them of their bad behavior or their false doctrines and (c) to EXPEL them from the church if they refuse to repent? Are you aware of that Biblical commandment against "wolves in sheep's clothing"? ------------------------ When you say we never judge according to appearance... did you mean that women could go to church in outfits fit for a strip club? Do you see how foolish you are being? ---------------------
Appreciate Pastor John's comments from scripture. I dress to feel comfortable as dressing up could give the wrong impression or cause a distraction by making me stand out. As long as it's not distasteful then it shouldn't be an issue. That seems to be the feeling of most of our congregation too. It will probably depend on a number of factors, such as the location and age profile of the congregation.
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
@@HearGodsWord ... Again you are so wrong. Wheat show the "fruit" of having the Holy Spirit and do NOT act inappropriately in church. While unsaved "tares" do not have the Holy Spirit and show the "fruit" of that reality in church and home. ------------- Child... you are actually arguing that the "fruit" of saved wheat and unsaved tares is the same. But you have NO BIBLICAL reason for pretending that way. You just want to argue with what the Bible says. ------------- Your fight is with SCRIPTURE child (not with me) -------------------
@@HearGodsWord .... Child, why do you protest me copying and pasting MY OWN WORDS? You are just a petty little child looking for something to criticize because you can NEVER argue Scripture with me. How sad. -----------------
I'm not protesting about anything but making an observation so chill child. You say I'm looking for something to criticise, yet you only come on here to argue and put people down...sounds like hypocrisy to me. Now that is sad. 😂 (emoji especially for you!)
I work and get dirty all week. I wear suits to Church with a tie . I get them from Thrift Stores. Yes im Cheap but look good . Yes I have also worn my work uniform when having to work on Sundays and no time to change.
I think that if your aim in dressing casual is to be welcoming to others, you better be welcoming to others in action as well. If you're dressing up to honor God, your actions should too.
Wasnt this the issue of the Corinthian church? It is all about the heart and if the Holy Spirit fills it. If someone is filled with His Spirit or someone is truly seeking, they .. I believe...will have a broken and reverent spirit.
Thank you for addressing this. I believe there is a flippant, casual attitude toward God in the church that is reflected in the clothing people wear sometimes. Personally, I find it distracting and distressing to see people wearing some of the things they do. At the same time, i was convicted by your comments about dressing up in a way that does not distract or call attention to ourselves. This is something I need to keep in mind when I dress for church so I thank you for bringing that to our attention. It's a good standard, either way--dressing up so much that you create distraction or dressing down so much that you cause distraction. I also want to say that when unbelievers or unchurched people come into a church, they should be welcomed warmly no matter what they are wearing.
You are absolutely right that there is often a flippant, casual attitude to worship. And you are also absolutely right that when unbelievers come to church they should be welcomed. But the problem is that many of the poorest people in society only have very low quality clothes, and if everyone is dressed better than they are it will usually put them off coming to services. But we should want unbelievers to join us (1 Cor 14:23-25). I hate the thought of people deciding not to come to services because they haven't got good enough clothes to fit in.
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
@@maxaplin4204 AMEN when I was young, I didn't have " the proper clothes " , I felt awkward and not welcome and it kept me from attending church. That should NEVER happen to anyone.
@@silversurfer2703 Thanks for that. I think Piper is absolutely right that dressing casually can lead to a casual attitude in worship. This is a real and serious problem. But in my view, the way to deal with this problem is just to tell Christians that dressing down is appropriate so as not to put poor people off coming, but also tell them that it is wrong to have a casual attitude in worship, and to make it a habit for church leaders to tell their flocks this.
I remember this woman was dressed as what is called 'Sunday Best'. She had on an outfit with a beautiful hat. The problem was her skirt was extremely short. I mean way up to the highest part of her thighs. It might have been a stumbling block for men in church.
New Testament DOES tell us how to dress, or rather what not to do . Look at letter to Timothy, where Paul clearly tells us to dress modestly, specifically economic modesty. So no fine tailoring, Rolex watches, gold ,pearls and sparkling gems. Consider the poor in church and do not boast through dress.
We are indeed coming together to worship our Holy, Heavenly Father in the presence of our Heavenly, Holy Father himself so we should bear that in mind first and foremost. I don't think we need to attend church or worship 'suited and booted' and I think that our clothes are secondary if not tertiary to our hearts, but at the same time our clothing can reflect our attitude. I tend to wear a short sleeve shirt or t-shirt with smart jeans or casual trousers most weeks and then a sweater (Jumper in England) when the weather turns cold. While I don't feel I have to "put my glad rags on" I fully appreciate where I am and what I am there to do, so I always try to dress in an appropriate manner and make sure I look presentable. That being said, for all we know, the scruffiest person could be the one that is closer to God than all of us!
I won’t be a distraction in either direction. Not looking disheveled, but also not pristine. I’m of the opinion that you should always show respect for God. But what you’re wearing is ancillary to participation in the service at best.
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
John Piper made a lot of good comments in this video. At worship services we should be reverent to God, we should not dress to attract attention, and this is not the place to try to attract people sexually. He is absolutely right that worship services are often much too casual and don't reflect a good understanding of God. But I think he neglected one issue. We should want non-Christians to join us at our worship services (1 Cor 14:23-25), including the poorest of the poor, those who have ruined their lives with crack cocaine etc. etc. However, many of these people only have shabby clothes. If all the Christians turn up to services well dressed, it is very unlikely that the poorest non-Christians would want to join us. Not only would they have to venture into a strange environment, but they would have to humiliate themselves to do so by dressing differently from everyone else. For me, this is the single biggest factor in this issue, and it is the reason why I dress down at Sunday services. I just can't stand the thought of poor non-believers in the neighbourhood saying to themselves, 'My life is a mess, and I am interested in going along to that church on a Sunday, but I can't face it because everyone is dressed in a suit and I don't have a suit.'
@@blkadjuster First, 'accuse' is a strong word. I wouldn't say I was accusing John of anything. He made lots of great points in this video. Second, I have done what you requested and listened to the video again, but I still maintain that he did neglect to mention the point I made. Between about 8.15 and 9.45 in the video he talks about how people at a church service might relate to people who are not well dressed. But he never discusses how people might be put off coming to services in the first place because they don't own good clothes. That is the point I was making, and that is something he didn't talk about. Again, I am not accusing him or even criticising him. But it is an important issue that he doesn't discuss in this video. God bless you too.
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
If anyone is interested, I have written an article, 'What Should the Dress Code Be for Christian Worship Services?' which can be found here: maxaplin.blogspot.com/2016/11/what-should-dress-code-be-for-sunday.html
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
I think the posture of the heart is what is most important. Also I just want to mention that some people are so attractive that no matter what they wear they will be a distraction to some.
My church has a pastor that dresses formal: suit and tie with tie bar. Another pastor dresses business casual: polo and khaki pants. The congregation wears everything in-between. But, I’ve seen some other churches have members that wear wine/beer branded t-shirts and revealing sexual attire 😬
This is a Romans 14 issue, if you have a conviction that dressing a particular way honors God, then you should dress that way and honor God. And, if your brother or sister in Christ has a conviction that differs than yours, then let that person do so to the honor of God. Both of you encourage and support honoring God and unity with one another without quarreling.
If they had the Holy Spirit they would dress and act appropriately. Piper should have just said the church consists of both save wheat and unsaved tares and those acting inapporpriately are just showing the "fruit" of being "tares.
@@rsagape7300 ... child, you only embarrass yourself when you construct STRAWMEN arguments. ----------------- The Bible PROMISES that a "child of God" will be KNOWN by their "fruit"... what? do you think (real) saints act like unsaved men? Really? ----------------- The Bible COMMANDS all real saints (saved "wheat" sown by God) to (a) IDENTIFY those showing bad "fruit" in their behavior or doctrines and (b) REBUKE their bad behavior or doctrine because some of the could be "babes in Christ" who NEED much correction and (c) EXPEL all those who refuse to repent from the church - and to separate from them. -------------------- This is all part of Christian theology 101... why in the world is it "news" to you? --------------------- www.5thKingdomofGod.com ---------------
@@rsagape7300 ... silly child. What is this passage teaching? ----------------- Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. ----------------------- www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com ------------------------
I wear what's comfortable. In summer that may be shorts (UK type), T shirt, sandals, bush hat; something warmer in winter but same hat. Would I wear that to meet the queen, someone famous or my wife when courting? Yes. Would I wear that to meet God? Yes. I will say I make sure they are clean.
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
@@wisevirgin3405 And that can work both ways, to turn up in your smart, best clothes when the rest are casual is also unwise. I think it's more about what's in your heart and how you normally are and are comfortable in. Me, the last time I wore a ties was over 20 years ago, my job doesn't require it and neither do the events I attend. I'm also fairly active during (sung) worship and bouncing around is easier in a track suit or loose casual clothes, especially in kids work with nearly 300 kids around you.
@@RichardBragg ... in my comment (above) I was very specific. I said Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being an (unsaved) "tare" instead of a (saved) "wheat". ------------------ I agree with you that clean pants and a polo shirt or a button-down shirt are appropriate. Although a lot of older folks (not that I am not old) think a suit is more appropriate... but they (we) grew-up in a different culture. I don't know WHY you would ever be "bouncing around" and I think a track suit is disrespectful when we go to worship Almighty God. But clearly the most important thing is that we act like we are in the presence of God. --------------------
@@wisevirgin3405 Ps 150 and various other psalms mention dancing and David was criticised for being enthusiastic in his praise (enthusiastic - en Theos - in God). OK it's more bouncing than real dance but hey I love God and I love to express that love and joy physically. When the band hits the chorus in songs like Tim Hughes' "Happy Day" I don't want to keep still. Slower more meditative songs are also good, there isn't any form of music you can't use to praise God though maybe some are not quite so good for congregations. Zeph 3:17 Mentions the Lord rejoicing over His people and the words used bring to mind to spin around in delight as a result of great emotion. If God can be like that over us, surely we can be like that rejoicing over Him and what He has done. I think as long as it's from the heart and in context and not drawing attention to self there isn't a problem. Same is true for dress. But we must not be simply bound to tradition. We should have left temple worship behind with it's separated priesthood and formality but too often we have returned to it in some form or another. If you are going to be crawling around with kids, or playing games with them and it's not hot enough for shorts a tracksuit maybe a good choice. You can add/remove layers as you need. (Our kids work happens as part of the morning service, once CV19 restrictions pass, after the sung worship.)
Here's my take on it: if you are alone in your home, in your quiet place with the Lord and seek to have communion with Him, to gain the most out of that communion is there a certain dress code required of us there? For instance, if we wish to commune with Him in the early hours and rush to do so even before dressing for the day, will our time spent seeking Him be hindered because of it? Or what if it is late at night and we decide to have a bath, and while relaxing in the tub seek the Lord either through prayer or praise. Does our lack of any dress at all in some manner negate our communication? What if we are dressed in shorts and a t shirt for the day and at some point decide slip away and spend quiet time with God. Do you think He'll be upset that we didn't put on "nicer" clothes when approaching Him? The same exact conclusions you draw regarding the above scenarios can be applied to seeking God in church. Generally speaking, what we are wearing has absolutely no bearing on whether we can fully and effectively commune with Him, no matter where we are. God is not offended by shorts and a t shirt in our homes, neither is He offended by shorts and a t shirt during Sunday worship. God is the same in your home and in the church, and how we approach Him is the same in both places. We do so with our hearts, not with our clothes. BUT, because it is a public space we share with our brothers and sisters, it's important to consider the custom and vibe of your particular church and its members. If you are a regular member of a church, it would be best to dress in a way that doesn't offend or stand out in any particular way, whether that be extremely casual or even very formal. In a collective setting, do your best not to displease or distract others. If your church expects you to dress a certain way, do so. If it has no expectations whatsoever for how you dress, and is totally fine with your dressing either in shorts or a suit, then dress however you want without feeling unnecessary reservations or guilt concerning your appearance. In general, God does not have a particular dress code in mind for us when we approach Him, whether that be in a church building or our homes. He won't be offended by casual clothes, nor will He deny us His Spirit if we aren't dressed "nice" enough.
Very good point, i have a question though because this verse pops up to my head wile i was reading your coment, its in proverbs 3:7, could it be possible that we sometimes let our opinions guide us instead of God’s spirit?
I've never understood why its OK to wear regular clothes at Wednesday night Bible study, but if you go to Sunday worship not wearing fancy clothes people will look at you like you've sinned. As long as we look modest, should it even matter what style of clothing it is? Does God really care if we follow man-made traditions or not? Answer: No
I live in a very small town in the middle of Mexico and we don’t have a lot of money around here and it’s very dirty little town. It’s hard to wear clothes and not come home filthy after just one event. Most of us don’t have money to buy fancy clothes but we go to church. I really believe that as long as we are not attracting the wrong attention and dress modestly, and we go there with a heart for God., that’s all that should matter.
I completely agree with everything he says in this video but I do want to say this. It is said in the Bible that we should be coming to God and worshiping Him daily, and it does not say that dressing up should only be done on Sundays when we go to church. So if you dress up on Sunday for church, do you also dress up every other day you live when you should be coming before Him and worshiping Him, or are you a Christian only on Sundays? If you dress up on Sundays for church, you should be dressing up everyday and every moment that you come before God to pray, learn about Him, and worship Him.
No you missed the whole point. As Christians we gather together in God's house once a week to fellowship with other believers and receive encouragement from or leaders and each other. When we come into a HOLY PLACE ie. our church building. we dress up. In our everyday life we are not with our church friends and members. But we are still Christians. We still pray we still worship. We still trust. That's why we don't dress up every day. We don't literally go into a holy place every day.
I have visited small home gatherings for corporate worship and mega churches where many are wearing expensive suits ties and dresses. I have visited large churches where people dress the way they would in there normal manner of life. The question I always ask is would a person who has nothing but his faith be welcomed in that gathering. This is why I respected the Salvation Army movement. There was a place where the poor could hear the gospel and be saved.
I agree that the congregation should dress as if they are having an audience and worshiping the King of the universe. Preachers should dress not in business attire but in robes.
I tend to dress business causal manner which dress shirt and dress plants. when it get cold out side I put on my sports jacket. church is slightly more formal than going to the store but should not too formal to make new comer feel out place.
I’ve been mostly concerned about my dress in regards to guests. I dont want the church to out dress visitors who may be poor or coming in on a whim and feeling embarrassed
Adam and Eve met with God in the nude, God's original intent for man was never clothes. SO I find it amusing when people want to put some dress code on meeting with God in any form. Also, the Bible speaks out more against judging someone by their clothes. James 2:3 and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,". Just as Pastor John pointed out clothes shouldn't be superficial as God sees the heart and probably could care very less about the clothes as long as both men and women are modest.
I've noticed in our modern time many Churches tends to act all holier then though attitudes when it comes to how people dress and its sickening because when you judge people base on their clothes you are turning the church into a fashion contest and turning the church away from Gid rather to him I've seen many people get condemned and judge by modern churches by its congregation Base on the peoples clothes and i been One of those very people who has been judged and condemned by churches base on my clothes, i grew up in poverty and im still living in poverty with in the United States people like me can't afford nice clothes so we have to wear what we own and able to afford people today as in many people tends to forget that poverty is still a thing with in the country and expects everyone to dress according to the modern churches tradition rather than allowing people to dress in clothing that they only have.
This wouldn't be a conversation that Christ would have with ANYONE, because "the church is NOT a building" (Matthew 16:18). Our traditions make the word of God of none effect, and we gladly reject the commandment of God, that we may keep our traditions; teaching for doctrines the commandments of men (Matthew 15:7-9; Mark 7:9).
I don’t own nice clothes. I do the majority of my “best” praying in the shower. I do a lot of praying in my closet on a makeshift desk, in my pajamas or in dirty clothes after a long day. So the logic of dressing up to be in God’s presence doesn’t make sense to me.
@@tired_buthappy Here is roughly what I think Piper is saying: If partaking in an occasion of high significance, then one ought to dress according to the significance of that particular occasion. Church congregation is a highly significant occasion. Thus, one ought to dress accordingly. What he seems to be saying is that dressing up for church like its just another typical day in the life is treating church as though it really isn’t majorly important, which it is.
Rebecca Christopher romans 14, a note to myself after reading that again it makes me want to stay out of this. But this has become so huge in some churches. Now to be clear women dressing inappropriate isn’t what Me or 99% of people are talking about. I have seen women dress inappropriate for church and for life, but that’s a different topic. Sorry meant @johnnyD
uhh I usually wear sweats and a hoodie for church I don’t feel comfortable in dresses and the 2 dresses I own aren’t really church appropriate I hope that’s ok.
these are all good points, but he didn't really answer how to dress, more how attitudes are reflected in how you dress but to me there's more to how you dress than just your attitude the church that I go to, they want you to dress in your nicest clthing, maybe not a suite, but a button up or a polo all the time. It has become a standard. I do not like this standard because when it gets hot in the summer, or extremely cold in the winter I feel very uncomfortable in some way either they've got the heat on because "it's cold out" and I'm hot hand sweaty, or I'm having to rush into the church from the outside or back to the van because "hey the weather is too extreme and my cloths don't match the weather because of how they are made." my feeling is that if i want to dress in shorts of a decent length or jeans, and a nice t shirt, or sweater or sweat shirt that isn't super warn out or inapropriate, in order to feel more comfortable then I should be able to, why? because it's your family, the church is your family , and i'm sorry many people find the formal look intemadating and strict, and to me that's not who God is
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
@@wisevirgin3405 indeed you are correct. note i never said that i mind dressing nice either, sometimes it's fun, but for example, our pastor, he's new to the ministery and only a few years older than me, the man HATES, formal ware, and I mean HATES it, but he wares a tie and a button up shirt why? because the older people expect it of him, and have told him to ware it, even though he never wore what I would call casual ware it was always slacks, or a nice clean pare of dark jeans and a polo, I'm sorry but the pastor leads the church not the other way around
@@brycegeorge37 ... I do not see where a coat and tie is necessary. When I say "dressing and acting appropriately" I mean where clean clothes (if possible), show respect to God, not act as if it was a social club or a bar. And acting appropriately means not rubbing your boyfriends neck (as Piper mentioned) and not texting in church and not falling asleep or acting bored or any number of things that are just disrespectful to God. --------------- I feel sorry for your pastor because I see nothing wrong with wearing clear slacks or jeans and a polo or button down shirt - but I understand the older people (not that I am not old also) often EXPECT pastors to wear suits. To me it is MUCH more important that he teach the True Gospel because that is so rare in churches today.... or on "blogs" like this. People often HATE to hear what are basic and essential elements of the Gospel - like "tares" exist and you can tell them by their "fruit". ----------------- If you have a pastor that teaches the True Gospel you are lucky. Back in the 80's I was driving two hours (each way) to find a church that still REALLY believed in salvation by the Sovereign Grace of God. That is why I am so critical of people like John Piper who KNOWS the Truth and yet does not just come out and say... there are "tares" in the church and we can KNOW them by their "fruit"... we can know them by how they act and by what they preach. ------------------- It is hard for pastors to talk about "tares" in the church or the "fruit" of tares because they see their membership start to decline quickly and for a church (today) membership is everything. Often (very often) even more important than correct doctrine. ----------------
@@wisevirgin3405 i agree, but i will also say that No one knows everything about the bible I've learned things that some people think are crazy, that they don't teach in many mainstreme churches, and yet it's there and it greatly affecte my life in a positive way, and i'lll say also that I have learnd many great things from mr. piper it's just that every now and then he either goes too deep, or not as deep as he should
Wellsaid! I believe that clothing can be hypocritical. If you only dress up for church, but dress according to worldly trends the rest of the time, are you really bringing glory to God? Unless I am working on my car or painting or something that will get really messy, I always dress the same. I feel like anything else would be hypocritical for myself. I would never impose this on others as if it were a biblical mandate, but it is what I feel God would have me to do.
The church has lost its reverence for God. Should we really be sipping our lattes while we sing about the holiness of God? Should we show up in shorts and flip-flops to worship God Almighty, when we have better clothes to wear?
Rose, I think you know better. If a man is saved while living in a cardboard box, we want him in the flock with us on Sunday and we don’t expect him to be wearing a suit and tie. And, I would certainly make sure he knows he’s welcome for Sunday dinner, too!
@@rosehammer9482 Of course we should receive poor people into our fellowship. But I'm just saying that if you can afford nice clothes, you should wear them to church.
@@susanh1447 Of course we should receive poor people into our fellowship. But I'm just saying that if you can afford nice clothes, you should wear them to church.
I used to find myself being judgemental of worship leaders who have tattoos all over their arms, wear earrings and others who have funky hair-do's, they look more like a rock band (add the colorful lights that change in the dark) Do we really need to do more than what the Bible says in order to attract today's youth? If you're a worship leader please let me know what your thoughts are. I have no desire to argue, it's just my opinion from what I've seen. In the end, i don't know what's in people's hearts/intentions. God bless!
Not sure about the earrings and funky hairdos but with the tattoos, its most likely a choice they made before they were saved. A lot of people in my church incl myself have tattoos, but that was done in our past life. I'd wonder the same thing about the hairdos too. Now you got me wondering if it's not right to wear earrings.
There is nothing like a straight answer. You won’t get it from this guy. Reformed preachers always like to complicate things because they are so intellectual, and not necessarily biblical.
Revelation 3:5, white raiment, no you cant buy it at the store and their is no falsehood in it. Sackcloth and ashes were worn in sincerity in the past. It’s unfortunate this is a topic of debate in many churches. I don’t care what someone wears as long as it’s not arrogance and contention with a mind full of evil thoughts. I just read romans 14 again and I think that covers this topic.
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. ---------------------- For many are "called" by the Christian Gospel But few are "chosen" to become saved -------------------------
@@wisevirgin3405 Will you explain why you are quoting scripture in ye olde English? I just don't understand why fellow believers do this. I can understand for poetic reasons, but we do not talk like that anymore in conversations to eachother. I also see Christian's witnessing to the unsaved using old English. It better not to.
If we dress up for church shouldn’t we dress up for personal devotional times with God, which I believe is far more important than church. If you think about this, most wouldn’t dress up for devotions but only dress up for church because it’s a tradition passed down.
I really liked Piper's first point on dressing to not distract, but I totally agree his point on dressing up to be "fitting" doesn't seem logically consistent. Dressing up for a 25th anniversary with the wife is a one-time thing, whereas God is omnipresent; God isn't more manifest in church than in the house at 6am. Church isn't a "more important" event than praying alone... so if it's "fitting" to dress up for church then by that logic it's just as fitting to dress up every waking hour of the day.
@@ardentword508 ... the larger point is whether a person act appropriately in church (or out of church). Piper should have said that the church consists of BOTH saved wheat and unsaved tares and acting inappropriately is showing the "fruit" of being an unsaved tare. ----------- But Piper is AFRAID to talk about "tares" in the church. That is a problem. ----------
@@BronsonLivesHere209 ... Child, do you realize how foolish you appear? You can have personal devotions in your pajamas or underwear. It would be disrespectful (to God) to wear pajamas or underwear to church. If you want to be taken seriously you will need to THINK deeper than you are now. --------------------
Wise Virgin I would take you seriously if you didn’t call me child and foolish. I choose not to have my devotions in my underwear because it would be disrespectful to God. Wearing my underwear in public is not disrespectful to God but immodest and was not what I was saying. You obviously dress for man and not for the Lord. God bless you sister.
Please don’t brush your teeth before going to church either because God loves you the way you are. Besides they probably can’t afford a toothbrush after paying for that nice tattoo. People really have lost their minds including pastor John John. Good night.
I get the principles that pastor John is proposing from the Scriptures but this is a conscience issue. I dress a certain way based on the congregation I’m going to. Is the church I go to is very big on wearing suits I’ll do that for the sake of honoring the house Play if I go to a church that is lenient about dress clothes then I will dress casually. This is a secondary issue and it is also a wisdom issue. There is not a One size fits all answer to this question. We have to be careful not to be a Pharisee and put standards that Jesus never set. We never want to hinder someone from entering into the kingdom because of a secondary issue. More importantly than the outside God looks on the inner and of course it’s not acceptable to wear revealing clothes or draw attention to yourself with very expensive jewelry and etc. but dressing more casually does not make someone less God-fearing and careless.
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
Most of the churches nowadays dont preach sound doctrine.. it's most earthy things, human desire, prosperity and never once mention anything about our sins and people just want spiritual experiences and healings that's has nothing to do with god.
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat". That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
GOD see's your Heart when you praise or worship him not how you dress. You are still don"t know the Word of GOD. Wearing a normal attire is just fine as long as not seductive attire. May GOD give you wisdom.
Because God expects you to come as you are, some people only towns shorts or torn jeans, and some women might only own tight pants. I rather see people wearing tight pants then wearing baggy pants that falls down pass the butt line. And God expects us to come as we are. Would you judge a poor man who goes to church wearing all he has because he isn't dress the way you expect him to?
Their is nothing wrong with going to church wearing shorts and flip flops, and remember back in the biblical times all they had was sandals/flip flops shoes as we see to day didn't exist in that time and shorts as long they ain't to Short is find to wear in church God doesn't tell you you must wear long pants and wear fancy shoes in church he only expect you to dress nice, And I never once dressed up for interviews I was went to interviews in normal clothes.
Teri Vo Brother/sister, I implore you not to look at something like this as ‘more rules.’ Rather, as a pursuit of holiness, something that we are doing because we revere Christ as our greatest treasure. God certainly is more interested in your heart than what you’re wearing. But with that being said, we should glorify God with our bodies. This is simply one way that we might revere Jesus. It’s not a rule, it’s a way you can love the Lord. That should be exciting. Peace and blessings.
Nicholas Scott she's better off if she asks pastor Jesus. ie has the one true pastor and books' author "exegete" (explain) things for her. I only came on here to read comments: to see how many people would remark on the absurdity of such a question at such a time.
This is a complete eisegesis of the texts. They have nothing to do with clothing. The Bible is clear, it only commands modesty. Dressing up is nowhere required in the New Testament, anyone who wants to is free to do it, but never judge those who don't, and specially do not make the Bible say what it does not.
@@susanh1447 Your question is exactly how he should have answered this question. It’s a no brainer. You are much smarter than this Reformed preacher. A reformed preacher is one who teaches Calvinism, where logic is above the scriptures.
@@susanh1447 That’s great. Just remember the Bible trumps whatever man may say. I love Billy Graham’s early crusades. But he began to waver when he got into politics and he started to focus too much on social issues rather than on the gospel.
A short and to the point answer would have been more useful than this rambling in depth mainly irrelevant explanation. God is sovereign and so you dress accordingly. If your boss at work expects you to wear business attire because they entertain clients who might thow a bit of business their way, how much more important is it to wear something suitable to church befitting the Lord or Lords or King of Kings who's saved you from eternal damnation. What I find is anything but reverence and respect for the Lord. Most dress as though they've either dressed in the dark or slung on the last item they removed the night before that was crumpled after being sprawled on the bedroom floor. Scruffy, in other words. So no, you don't wear your dirty or scruffy unkempt clothes. You look presentable at worst and smart at best but always modest and unostentatious and you wear clothing that is designed for your gender. That means women wear modest non sensual women's clothing you find in the women's department - female cut loose trousers or dresses/skirts, and men dress from the men's department with an ironed shirt and jacket. No unisex clothing or couples arriving in his and hers matching tops. No one turns up like they're about to attend a rock concert, so no torn or tie dyed jeans or logo or slogan fronted T shirts. No one turns up like they're at a fashion parade, so no designer branded expensive or flashy wealth highlighting items. No one shows up like they're going to a wedding either with fancy flowery, chiffony, satiny, flowing cut or bright eye catching colours, and spangly this that and the other that draws attention to themselves and invites compliments and distracts from worship. In other words, clothing for both sexes should be appropriate to gender, understated and simple, non expensive and clean and well pressed to give an overal impression of having made an effort to look your simple best. It's not rocket science.
God doesn't expect you to dress up in nice he expects you to come as you are. I remember a pastor who tested his church on his first day as he dressed up like a poor man who had nothing but ragged old torn clothes and the whole church judged him and attacked him for not dressing up and when they found out he was the new pastor testing them they where brought the church to shame for judging people based on appearance.
@@mrnoedahl you do know nice clothes won't make you closer to God if you judge a man because how he is dressed then you have a bigger issue that you need to figure out, are you gonna look down on a person because they wear what they had just be a use it doesn't fit your dress code. God doesn't judge people for what they wear he judge people base on their heart.
@@SouthernRebels94 What do they tell you when you are summoned for jury duty? No shorts, or tank tops. They expect you to honor the court by wearing decent clothes. How much more should we honor God by wearing proper clothing. And that poor man story is just an excuse for the average person to wear whatever they want. The vast majority of people have at least one pair of descent clothes to wear. And I am talking about regular church goer’s not the first time guest. And it’s not a matter of judging people by what they wear; it’s a matter of respect for the Lord’s house. What would you wear to go visit the President? Or what would you wear to your best friends wedding? Still don’t get it?
@@mrnoedahl you can wear shirts on jury duty I seen it many times a court isn't gonna expect you to wear what you don't have. And man made courts and God are two different things what pleases man is not the same on what pleases God if you gonna base your own beliefs from man made traditions rather then what God says then you need to work on your own self righteous as being all self righteous isn't gonna get you in to Heaven. And you need to also learn what it truly means to be a Christian as of right know I can tell you have no idea on what a true Christian is as you follow the traditions of man rather then going by what God says.
I wear a suit and tie to church because I believe going to church be like a date. I dress up for dates with my wife for the same reason it should be special. Same reason we dress up for weddings and funerals respect to be respectful
Show RESPECT for God in church and out of church. However Piper should have mentioned the church consists of BOTH saved wheat and unsaved tares. And those acting inappropriately are only showing the "fruit" of being unsaved tares.
@@grantarmbruster6591 Show RESPECT for God in church and out of church. However Piper should have mentioned the church consists of BOTH saved wheat and unsaved tares. And those acting inappropriately are only showing the "fruit" of being unsaved tares.
@@wisevirgin3405 I agree but for the Christian it should be like going on a date you should offer your very best. It upsets me when I see men and women dressing down for church when I know full well they dress up for work or at least for job interviews
@@grantarmbruster6591 ... I agree. We should treat it as the most important event of our week. I only qualify that by the fact that some people do not own "good clothes"... so "clean clothes" must do for them - and they can be the most blessed in the church. My point is simply in our clothes and especially in our behavior we should be respectful of GOD while in church (and also out of church) --------------------
God does look on the heart, but that doesn't give you an excuse to dress like a slob. Your body is a temple of the holy Spirit. Quit wearing yoga pants and ripped jeans to church.
Their is nothing wrong with wearing yoga pants or rip jeans to church as long it fits you properly. Man shouldn't dress the way that pleases you God isn't gonna judge someone wearing what they have at the time. Would you judge a homeless man if he enters a church with holes all over his shirt and dirty shorts because that's all he has to wear? If not then why judge a man for wearing yoga pants and ripped jeans. What I can't stand are Christians who wanna act all holier then tho attitudes .
@@SouthernRebels94 I agree that a homeless man should be accepted to church for whatever he wears. I agree with that passage in James. What I am addressing is disciples of Christ who know better yet do not change how they live for Christ.
@@aisforamerica2185 yeah but yago pants and ripped jeans has nothing to do with people not changing how they live. It would be more helpful if you was much more clearer in your explanations. Sorry if I took what you said the wrong way.
Very good answer, keeping reverence is important. We must remember that we are assembling to worship the King and Creator of the Universe.
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
@@wisevirgin3405 I think it goes deeper then that. It's a culture that's developed within many churches rather than simply individuals. We see the same thing with worship in many churches where its become worldly and resembles a music concert, whereas hymms are seen as archaic.
@@jag6138 ... No, this is the reality. When you say a "culture that has developed" you are
really saying the unsaved "tares" are now the MAJORITY of the church. And that is
EXACTLY what the Gospel predicted from the start. It was always a MAJOR PART
of the Gospel that unsaved "tares" would infiltrate the church and the "leaven" of
their false doctrines would corrupt the churches and eventually corrupt the entire
Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".
-----------
The "fruit" of unsaved tares is inappropriate behavior and false doctrines.
So when we are talking about inappropriate behavior in the church we are only talking
about the "fruit" of unsaved tares. Real saints do NOT act inappropriately in church...
It is really as simple as that. We are KNOWN by our "fruit".
----------------
I worship the King and Creator of the universe at all times, even when I'm in the shower. I have a waterproof tuxedo that I wear in the shower. I also wear it when I'm swimming. I have another tux when I'm in bed. Unfortunately I have to stop worshipping God when I'm in the process of changing clothes. Those few minutes feel like pure hell. You have to dress nice when you're worshipping the Lord.
Great answer . I dress up for church because its like the only time I can look nice cause I work so much haha . .. but I think your right . I shouldn't dress up for attention or anything at church @.@ . It's not about me , it's about the Lord. I will be reconsidering my dress . But also my heart
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
Wise Virgin ....where in the Bible does it say you must wear a suit and tie? I agree a lot of people dress very inappropriately, but there is nothing wrong with going in khakis or a neat set of jeans with a nice neat shirt.....all this stuff is man made baloney
@@justanothergoy5900 Why do we go to a wedding or dinner in our best dress? Because it's a special occasion. Church is where we worship and fellowship with GOD. Why do we not wear our best then?
@@ti4833 not disagreeing with you but it is still a man made/religious concept not found anywhere in scripture
@@justanothergoy5900 It's not, God tells us to dress modestly, meaning that we shouldn't wear anything revealing/overtly sexual (Adam/Eve-Genesis). Also, when God tells Moses to take off his shoes because He is on Holy Ground, this tells us that our outer apparel DOES matter. When God talks about what to wear in the sanctuary in Leviticus.
I put on my nicer clothes, but they are still casual. I dress simple, clean, and basic.
So as respectful as you can. Not for attention, but because you consider church to be serious. I'm the same way.
When I wear nice clothes, I look like a frumpy unmade bed.
awesome explanation. Let us not be quick to judge others' appearances, but to judge our own hearts
I'm just thankful that Jesus is the one dressing me in his robes of righteousness. Cant be more dressed than that!
I like that. I should show up to church in a robe. I wonder what the priest would think. 😃
This is a bit of a Jesus Juke, tbh.
I wear jeans and a button-down shirt to church... which may look casual to the older folks, but it's more upscale than I normally dress because I do feel that pull to recognize the importance of what I'm about to do. Also, I'm an usher and a deacon at my church... and when the weekly execution of those positions dictates, I wear a suit.... and I hate it. As a large 275lb man, that suit strangles and afflicts me the entire time... I'm constantly hot and sweating and strangled and uncomfortable to the point where it impedes my ability to worship without distraction. My formal dress is a burden to my ability to worship.
So whatever my jeans and shirt mean to you, they mean freedom to fully engage in worship, unrestricted, for me.
AMEN brother!
Amen . Thank you for such a sharp biblical reminder. You are blessed Ps J. P.
John Piper should have given the REAL REMINDER that the church consists
of BOTH saved "wheat/sheep" (sown by God) and unsaved "tares/goats"
(sown by Satan)... and we can tell the DIFFERENCE between them by
their "fruit". Real saints do NOT act inappropriately in church.
But often unsaved "tares" act inappropriately.
--------------
Unfortunately, John Piper has a PROBLEM with addressing the Biblical FACT
that churches consist of BOTH wheat and tares. I MIGHT be the result of him
not wanting to lose church membership by "offending" the tares. That is sad.
-----------------
I sincerely DOUBT that Piper has forgotten that there are both wheat and tares
in the church... but I cannot remember him EVER preaching that reality.
That is sad.
-------------
Wow! Great explanation to a question for many! Thank you Pastor John!
Pastor John, I mentioned you in my latest video. You have been a tremendous blessing to me, and have taught me not WHAT to think, but HOW to think! God bless you, brother.
Thank you pastor john, i really appreciate the video, very informative.
Very well explained. Thank you so much. I will listen it again n again to learn more about how to be dressed not only when I go to the church but wherever I go... God bless you Pastor... thanks n regards
Great question and answers! Thank you
God bless these men
In my experience, working class people dress up for church and upper / middle class people dress down for church. My grandad used to wear his wedding suit every Sunday as it was the only suit he owned. People who wear suits every day to work often dress down to church because they can.
clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.
Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds us all together in perfect harmony.
Robes and sandals it is.
God bless brother John God bless everybody amen bring that heart of yours along with the mind and soul and praise our Mighty GOD stay strong in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ and He will finish the course
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
How about the ZOOM dress code?
joshuag94 😂😂😂
I've thought about this too and I think that Piper's point about non-distracting is important.
Tbh being on zoom gives greater flexibility. It's OK to wear what you did before at church for that's your choice then and any deviates from that is noticeable (esp to kids who are so observant). But at the same time, everyone is at home in comfortable clothes. And so if one wears something, such as a suit, then it it becomes quite distracting as everyone else be in normal wear.
In general (from what I've seen), it seems a casual to semi casual wear is pretty standard and non-distracting.
Finally, I really doubt this is an issue, especially among young men like us, for we never turn on our web cams during any meetings XD
The ball has left the park, folks. Pipes the home run kid!
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Truth.
------------
@@wisevirgin3405 Wow, someone's clothes determine their fruit? We NEVER judge according to appearance. Only by fruits laid out in Galatians 5. Appearance is not one of the fruits unless we are addressing, dressing modestly. A man can dress modestly in rags.
What if its the first time someone came to church, seeking the Lord and all they have is their stripper outfits, they show up with someone looking down their nose. That person may never come back. Then what?
Be humble friend, much love Jesus Christ is King
@@c.g.ryderii2405 ... Yes child the "fruit" is either behavior or false doctrine. When someone wears
inappropriate clothes to church that is showing the "fruit" of disrespecting God. Do you think it's
alright to disrespect God? Do you think the Elders of the church have a DUTY to ensure members
do NOT disrespect God. Now... if rags is all they have, then it is NOT disrespectful... is it?
------------------
Are you aware that Jesus taught [Mat 13] the church consists of BOTH saved "wheat/sheep"
(sown by God) and unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan)? Assuming you DID know that
then are you aware the saints (wheat/sheep) are COMMANDED by God to (a) identify all the
"tares" in the church (by their "fruit") and to (b) rebuke them of their bad behavior or their
false doctrines and (c) to EXPEL them from the church if they refuse to repent?
Are you aware of that Biblical commandment against "wolves in sheep's clothing"?
------------------------
When you say we never judge according to appearance... did you mean that women
could go to church in outfits fit for a strip club? Do you see how foolish you are being?
---------------------
Appreciate Pastor John's comments from scripture. I dress to feel comfortable as dressing up could give the wrong impression or cause a distraction by making me stand out. As long as it's not distasteful then it shouldn't be an issue. That seems to be the feeling of most of our congregation too. It will probably depend on a number of factors, such as the location and age profile of the congregation.
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
Must have taken a bit of time to copy and paste that comment so many times.
@@HearGodsWord ... Again you are so wrong. Wheat show the "fruit" of having
the Holy Spirit and do NOT act inappropriately in church. While unsaved "tares"
do not have the Holy Spirit and show the "fruit" of that reality in church and home.
-------------
Child... you are actually arguing that the "fruit" of saved wheat and unsaved tares
is the same. But you have NO BIBLICAL reason for pretending that way.
You just want to argue with what the Bible says.
-------------
Your fight is with SCRIPTURE child (not with me)
-------------------
@@HearGodsWord .... Child, why do you protest me copying and pasting
MY OWN WORDS? You are just a petty little child looking for something
to criticize because you can NEVER argue Scripture with me. How sad.
-----------------
I'm not protesting about anything but making an observation so chill child. You say I'm looking for something to criticise, yet you only come on here to argue and put people down...sounds like hypocrisy to me. Now that is sad. 😂 (emoji especially for you!)
I work and get dirty all week. I wear suits to Church with a tie . I get them from Thrift Stores. Yes im Cheap but look good . Yes I have also worn my work uniform when having to work on Sundays and no time to change.
I hope you have more amount of money to buy the new brand one someday! God bless you!
I think that if your aim in dressing casual is to be welcoming to others, you better be welcoming to others in action as well. If you're dressing up to honor God, your actions should too.
Wasnt this the issue of the Corinthian church? It is all about the heart and if the Holy Spirit fills it. If someone is filled with His Spirit or someone is truly seeking, they .. I believe...will have a broken and reverent spirit.
Great insight
Thank you for addressing this. I believe there is a flippant, casual attitude toward God in the church that is reflected in the clothing people wear sometimes. Personally, I find it distracting and distressing to see people wearing some of the things they do. At the same time, i was convicted by your comments about dressing up in a way that does not distract or call attention to ourselves. This is something I need to keep in mind when I dress for church so I thank you for bringing that to our attention. It's a good standard, either way--dressing up so much that you create distraction or dressing down so much that you cause distraction. I also want to say that when unbelievers or unchurched people come into a church, they should be welcomed warmly no matter what they are wearing.
You are absolutely right that there is often a flippant, casual attitude to worship. And you are also absolutely right that when unbelievers come to church they should be welcomed. But the problem is that many of the poorest people in society only have very low quality clothes, and if everyone is dressed better than they are it will usually put them off coming to services. But we should want unbelievers to join us (1 Cor 14:23-25). I hate the thought of people deciding not to come to services because they haven't got good enough clothes to fit in.
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
@@maxaplin4204 AMEN when I was young, I didn't have " the proper clothes " , I felt awkward and not welcome and it kept me from attending church. That should NEVER happen to anyone.
@@silversurfer2703 Thanks for that. I think Piper is absolutely right that dressing casually can lead to a casual attitude in worship. This is a real and serious problem.
But in my view, the way to deal with this problem is just to tell Christians that dressing down is appropriate so as not to put poor people off coming, but also tell them that it is wrong to have a casual attitude in worship, and to make it a habit for church leaders to tell their flocks this.
I remember this woman was dressed as what is called 'Sunday Best'. She had on an outfit with a beautiful hat. The problem was her skirt was extremely short. I mean way up to the highest part of her thighs. It might have been a stumbling block for men in church.
New Testament DOES tell us how to dress, or rather what not to do . Look at letter to Timothy, where Paul clearly tells us to dress modestly, specifically economic modesty. So no fine tailoring, Rolex watches, gold ,pearls and sparkling gems. Consider the poor in church and do not boast through dress.
Very insightful. Thank you.
Cre8tive Connexions yes, thank you.
We are indeed coming together to worship our Holy, Heavenly Father in the presence of our Heavenly, Holy Father himself so we should bear that in mind first and foremost.
I don't think we need to attend church or worship 'suited and booted' and I think that our clothes are secondary if not tertiary to our hearts, but at the same time our clothing can reflect our attitude.
I tend to wear a short sleeve shirt or t-shirt with smart jeans or casual trousers most weeks and then a sweater (Jumper in England) when the weather turns cold. While I don't feel I have to "put my glad rags on" I fully appreciate where I am and what I am there to do, so I always try to dress in an appropriate manner and make sure I look presentable.
That being said, for all we know, the scruffiest person could be the one that is closer to God than all of us!
I won’t be a distraction in either direction. Not looking disheveled, but also not pristine. I’m of the opinion that you should always show respect for God. But what you’re wearing is ancillary to participation in the service at best.
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
John Piper made a lot of good comments in this video. At worship services we should be reverent to God, we should not dress to attract attention, and this is not the place to try to attract people sexually. He is absolutely right that worship services are often much too casual and don't reflect a good understanding of God.
But I think he neglected one issue. We should want non-Christians to join us at our worship services (1 Cor 14:23-25), including the poorest of the poor, those who have ruined their lives with crack cocaine etc. etc.
However, many of these people only have shabby clothes. If all the Christians turn up to services well dressed, it is very unlikely that the poorest non-Christians would want to join us. Not only would they have to venture into a strange environment, but they would have to humiliate themselves to do so by dressing differently from everyone else.
For me, this is the single biggest factor in this issue, and it is the reason why I dress down at Sunday services. I just can't stand the thought of poor non-believers in the neighbourhood saying to themselves, 'My life is a mess, and I am interested in going along to that church on a Sunday, but I can't face it because everyone is dressed in a suit and I don't have a suit.'
He did not neglect to address what you accused him of. Please listen to his entire response. God bless you.
@@blkadjuster First, 'accuse' is a strong word. I wouldn't say I was accusing John of anything. He made lots of great points in this video.
Second, I have done what you requested and listened to the video again, but I still maintain that he did neglect to mention the point I made. Between about 8.15 and 9.45 in the video he talks about how people at a church service might relate to people who are not well dressed. But he never discusses how people might be put off coming to services in the first place because they don't own good clothes. That is the point I was making, and that is something he didn't talk about. Again, I am not accusing him or even criticising him. But it is an important issue that he doesn't discuss in this video.
God bless you too.
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
If anyone is interested, I have written an article, 'What Should the Dress Code Be for Christian Worship Services?' which can be found here:
maxaplin.blogspot.com/2016/11/what-should-dress-code-be-for-sunday.html
Max Aplin nicely done. Thank you.
Amen
Not even close... Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
I think the posture of the heart is what is most important. Also I just want to mention that some people are so attractive that no matter what they wear they will be a distraction to some.
Let’s don’t forget our words and deeds reveal what we treasure in our hear :)
It's still no excuse to be a slob.
Hahaha yeah I was thinking this. Some people are just very beautiful and may be distracting regardless.
I haven't listened yet but I'm going to go with intentionally.
basic suit and tie
My church has a pastor that dresses formal: suit and tie with tie bar. Another pastor dresses business casual: polo and khaki pants. The congregation wears everything in-between. But, I’ve seen some other churches have members that wear wine/beer branded t-shirts and revealing sexual attire 😬
This is a Romans 14 issue, if you have a conviction that dressing a particular way honors God, then you should dress that way and honor God. And, if your brother or sister in Christ has a conviction that differs than yours, then let that person do so to the honor of God. Both of you encourage and support honoring God and unity with one another without quarreling.
Not as important as WHO you’re wearing ! Better be the Holy Spirit !
If they had the Holy Spirit they would dress and act appropriately.
Piper should have just said the church consists of both save wheat
and unsaved tares and those acting inapporpriately are just showing
the "fruit" of being "tares.
@@wisevirgin3405 So you judge who's a child of God based on clothing preferences? You have stricter standards than God.
@@rsagape7300 ... child, you only embarrass yourself when you construct
STRAWMEN arguments.
-----------------
The Bible PROMISES that a "child of God" will be KNOWN by their "fruit"...
what? do you think (real) saints act like unsaved men? Really?
-----------------
The Bible COMMANDS all real saints (saved "wheat" sown by God) to
(a) IDENTIFY those showing bad "fruit" in their behavior or doctrines and
(b) REBUKE their bad behavior or doctrine because some of the could be
"babes in Christ" who NEED much correction and (c) EXPEL all those who
refuse to repent from the church - and to separate from them.
--------------------
This is all part of Christian theology 101...
why in the world is it "news" to you?
---------------------
www.5thKingdomofGod.com
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@@rsagape7300 ... silly child. What is this passage teaching?
-----------------
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there
a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend,
how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him
away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
-----------------------
www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com
------------------------
I wear what's comfortable. In summer that may be shorts (UK type), T shirt, sandals, bush hat; something warmer in winter but same hat. Would I wear that to meet the queen, someone famous or my wife when courting? Yes. Would I wear that to meet God? Yes. I will say I make sure they are clean.
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
@@wisevirgin3405 And that can work both ways, to turn up in your smart, best clothes when the rest are casual is also unwise. I think it's more about what's in your heart and how you normally are and are comfortable in. Me, the last time I wore a ties was over 20 years ago, my job doesn't require it and neither do the events I attend. I'm also fairly active during (sung) worship and bouncing around is easier in a track suit or loose casual clothes, especially in kids work with nearly 300 kids around you.
@@RichardBragg ... in my comment (above) I was very specific. I said Piper should have
said there are "wheat" and "tares" in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately
are simply showing the "fruit" of being an (unsaved) "tare" instead of a (saved) "wheat".
------------------
I agree with you that clean pants and a polo shirt or a button-down shirt are appropriate.
Although a lot of older folks (not that I am not old) think a suit is more appropriate... but
they (we) grew-up in a different culture. I don't know WHY you would ever be "bouncing
around" and I think a track suit is disrespectful when we go to worship Almighty God.
But clearly the most important thing is that we act like we are in the presence of God.
--------------------
@@wisevirgin3405 Ps 150 and various other psalms mention dancing and David was criticised for being enthusiastic in his praise (enthusiastic - en Theos - in God). OK it's more bouncing than real dance but hey I love God and I love to express that love and joy physically. When the band hits the chorus in songs like Tim Hughes' "Happy Day" I don't want to keep still. Slower more meditative songs are also good, there isn't any form of music you can't use to praise God though maybe some are not quite so good for congregations.
Zeph 3:17 Mentions the Lord rejoicing over His people and the words used bring to mind to spin around in delight as a result of great emotion. If God can be like that over us, surely we can be like that rejoicing over Him and what He has done.
I think as long as it's from the heart and in context and not drawing attention to self there isn't a problem. Same is true for dress. But we must not be simply bound to tradition. We should have left temple worship behind with it's separated priesthood and formality but too often we have returned to it in some form or another. If you are going to be crawling around with kids, or playing games with them and it's not hot enough for shorts a tracksuit maybe a good choice. You can add/remove layers as you need. (Our kids work happens as part of the morning service, once CV19 restrictions pass, after the sung worship.)
@@wisevirgin3405 Thinking over night, dressing to impress is just as bad as dressing to distress.
Here's my take on it: if you are alone in your home, in your quiet place with the Lord and seek to have communion with Him, to gain the most out of that communion is there a certain dress code required of us there? For instance, if we wish to commune with Him in the early hours and rush to do so even before dressing for the day, will our time spent seeking Him be hindered because of it? Or what if it is late at night and we decide to have a bath, and while relaxing in the tub seek the Lord either through prayer or praise. Does our lack of any dress at all in some manner negate our communication? What if we are dressed in shorts and a t shirt for the day and at some point decide slip away and spend quiet time with God. Do you think He'll be upset that we didn't put on "nicer" clothes when approaching Him?
The same exact conclusions you draw regarding the above scenarios can be applied to seeking God in church. Generally speaking, what we are wearing has absolutely no bearing on whether we can fully and effectively commune with Him, no matter where we are. God is not offended by shorts and a t shirt in our homes, neither is He offended by shorts and a t shirt during Sunday worship. God is the same in your home and in the church, and how we approach Him is the same in both places. We do so with our hearts, not with our clothes.
BUT, because it is a public space we share with our brothers and sisters, it's important to consider the custom and vibe of your particular church and its members. If you are a regular member of a church, it would be best to dress in a way that doesn't offend or stand out in any particular way, whether that be extremely casual or even very formal. In a collective setting, do your best not to displease or distract others. If your church expects you to dress a certain way, do so. If it has no expectations whatsoever for how you dress, and is totally fine with your dressing either in shorts or a suit, then dress however you want without feeling unnecessary reservations or guilt concerning your appearance.
In general, God does not have a particular dress code in mind for us when we approach Him, whether that be in a church building or our homes. He won't be offended by casual clothes, nor will He deny us His Spirit if we aren't dressed "nice" enough.
Very good point, i have a question though because this verse pops up to my head wile i was reading your coment, its in proverbs 3:7, could it be possible that we sometimes let our opinions guide us instead of God’s spirit?
If the shorts are modest it shouldn't be a problem.
As long your dress is not seductive to others because GOD see's the Heart not how you dress.
I've never understood why its OK to wear regular clothes at Wednesday night Bible study, but if you go to Sunday worship not wearing fancy clothes people will look at you like you've sinned. As long as we look modest, should it even matter what style of clothing it is? Does God really care if we follow man-made traditions or not? Answer: No
I live in a very small town in the middle of Mexico and we don’t have a lot of money around here and it’s very dirty little town. It’s hard to wear clothes and not come home filthy after just one event. Most of us don’t have money to buy fancy clothes but we go to church. I really believe that as long as we are not attracting the wrong attention and dress modestly, and we go there with a heart for God., that’s all that should matter.
W church
i ware the cleanest ones i got. the ones with the least amount of ware and tear. im just a regular factory worker type.
I'm also a regular factory worker. I'm in the bathroom at least once every half hour. 😃
Am in Papua New Guinea and always having questions on people dressed full in traditional atire for holly occassions and it is right or wrong?
I completely agree with everything he says in this video but I do want to say this. It is said in the Bible that we should be coming to God and worshiping Him daily, and it does not say that dressing up should only be done on Sundays when we go to church. So if you dress up on Sunday for church, do you also dress up every other day you live when you should be coming before Him and worshiping Him, or are you a Christian only on Sundays? If you dress up on Sundays for church, you should be dressing up everyday and every moment that you come before God to pray, learn about Him, and worship Him.
No you missed the whole point. As Christians we gather together in God's house once a week to fellowship with other believers and receive encouragement from or leaders and each other. When we come into a HOLY PLACE ie. our church building. we dress up. In our everyday life we are not with our church friends and members. But we are still Christians. We still pray we still worship. We still trust. That's why we don't dress up every day. We don't literally go into a holy place every day.
I have visited small home gatherings for corporate worship and mega churches where many are wearing expensive suits ties and dresses. I have visited large churches where people dress the way they would in there normal manner of life. The question I always ask is would a person who has nothing but his faith be welcomed in that gathering. This is why I respected the Salvation Army movement. There was a place where the poor could hear the gospel and be saved.
I agree that the congregation should dress as if they are having an audience and worshiping the King of the universe. Preachers should dress not in business attire but in robes.
Comfortable but toooo comfortable, nice but not toooo nice
I tend to dress business causal manner which dress shirt and dress plants. when it get cold out side I put on my sports jacket. church is slightly more formal than going to the store but should not too formal to make new comer feel out place.
What if the newcomer is dressed to the nines?
I’ve been mostly concerned about my dress in regards to guests. I dont want the church to out dress visitors who may be poor or coming in on a whim and feeling embarrassed
Pyjamas now seem like the most appropriate attire for now 😂
Adam and Eve met with God in the nude, God's original intent for man was never clothes. SO I find it amusing when people want to put some dress code on meeting with God in any form. Also, the Bible speaks out more against judging someone by their clothes. James 2:3 and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,". Just as Pastor John pointed out clothes shouldn't be superficial as God sees the heart and probably could care very less about the clothes as long as both men and women are modest.
They weren't in sin then, after God clothed them.
@@ti4833 amen
I've noticed in our modern time many Churches tends to act all holier then though attitudes when it comes to how people dress and its sickening because when you judge people base on their clothes you are turning the church into a fashion contest and turning the church away from Gid rather to him I've seen many people get condemned and judge by modern churches by its congregation Base on the peoples clothes and i been One of those very people who has been judged and condemned by churches base on my clothes, i grew up in poverty and im still living in poverty with in the United States people like me can't afford nice clothes so we have to wear what we own and able to afford people today as in many people tends to forget that poverty is still a thing with in the country and expects everyone to dress according to the modern churches tradition rather than allowing people to dress in clothing that they only have.
Those daisy dukes and moma dukes are out of the question.
This wouldn't be a conversation that Christ would have with ANYONE, because "the church is NOT a building" (Matthew 16:18). Our traditions make the word of God of none effect, and we gladly reject the commandment of God, that we may keep our traditions; teaching for doctrines the commandments of men (Matthew 15:7-9; Mark 7:9).
I don’t own nice clothes. I do the majority of my “best” praying in the shower. I do a lot of praying in my closet on a makeshift desk, in my pajamas or in dirty clothes after a long day. So the logic of dressing up to be in God’s presence doesn’t make sense to me.
The question was: “how should we dress for church?” Not “how should we dress for prayer in our closet”.
Johnny D But the concept remains the same... the concept of being in the presence of God, whether alone or in a group.
@@tired_buthappy Here is roughly what I think Piper is saying:
If partaking in an occasion of high significance, then one ought to dress according to the significance of that particular occasion.
Church congregation is a highly significant occasion.
Thus, one ought to dress accordingly.
What he seems to be saying is that dressing up for church like its just another typical day in the life is treating church as though it really isn’t majorly important, which it is.
Johnny D I just don’t see that argument in Scripture. I’m going to continue plucking heads of wheat until and unless the Spirit convicts me otherwise.
Rebecca Christopher romans 14, a note to myself after reading that again it makes me want to stay out of this. But this has become so huge in some churches. Now to be clear women dressing inappropriate isn’t what Me or 99% of people are talking about. I have seen women dress inappropriate for church and for life, but that’s a different topic. Sorry meant @johnnyD
This guy is more of a psychiatrist than a preacher. How does it make you feel? I feel so loved.
LOL 1:28 IS THIS A PUN FOR THE MOVIE "DRESSED TO KILL" ?!?! unexpected xD
Matthew 6:28
uhh I usually wear sweats and a hoodie for church I don’t feel comfortable in dresses and the 2 dresses I own aren’t really church appropriate I hope that’s ok.
these are all good points, but he didn't really answer how to dress, more how attitudes are reflected in how you dress but to me there's more to how you dress than just your attitude the church that I go to, they want you to dress in your nicest clthing, maybe not a suite, but a button up or a polo all the time. It has become a standard. I do not like this standard because when it gets hot in the summer, or extremely cold in the winter I feel very uncomfortable in some way either they've got the heat on because "it's cold out" and I'm hot hand sweaty, or I'm having to rush into the church from the outside or back to the van because "hey the weather is too extreme and my cloths don't match the weather because of how they are made." my feeling is that if i want to dress in shorts of a decent length or jeans, and a nice t shirt, or sweater or sweat shirt that isn't super warn out or inapropriate, in order to feel more comfortable then I should be able to, why? because it's your family, the church is your family , and i'm sorry many people find the formal look intemadating and strict, and to me that's not who God is
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
@@wisevirgin3405 indeed you are correct. note i never said that i mind dressing nice either, sometimes it's fun, but for example, our pastor, he's new to the ministery and only a few years older than me, the man HATES, formal ware, and I mean HATES it, but he wares a tie and a button up shirt why? because the older people expect it of him, and have told him to ware it, even though he never wore what I would call casual ware it was always slacks, or a nice clean pare of dark jeans and a polo, I'm sorry but the pastor leads the church not the other way around
@@brycegeorge37 ... I do not see where a coat and tie is necessary. When I say "dressing and
acting appropriately" I mean where clean clothes (if possible), show respect to God, not act
as if it was a social club or a bar. And acting appropriately means not rubbing your boyfriends
neck (as Piper mentioned) and not texting in church and not falling asleep or acting bored or
any number of things that are just disrespectful to God.
---------------
I feel sorry for your pastor because I see nothing wrong with wearing clear slacks or jeans and
a polo or button down shirt - but I understand the older people (not that I am not old also) often
EXPECT pastors to wear suits. To me it is MUCH more important that he teach the True Gospel
because that is so rare in churches today.... or on "blogs" like this. People often HATE to hear
what are basic and essential elements of the Gospel - like "tares" exist and you can tell them
by their "fruit".
-----------------
If you have a pastor that teaches the True Gospel you are lucky. Back in the 80's I was driving
two hours (each way) to find a church that still REALLY believed in salvation by the Sovereign
Grace of God. That is why I am so critical of people like John Piper who KNOWS the Truth
and yet does not just come out and say... there are "tares" in the church and we can KNOW
them by their "fruit"... we can know them by how they act and by what they preach.
-------------------
It is hard for pastors to talk about "tares" in the church or the "fruit" of tares because they
see their membership start to decline quickly and for a church (today) membership is
everything. Often (very often) even more important than correct doctrine.
----------------
@@wisevirgin3405 i agree, but i will also say that No one knows everything about the bible I've learned things that some people think are crazy, that they don't teach in many mainstreme churches, and yet it's there and it greatly affecte my life in a positive way, and i'lll say also that I have learnd many great things from mr. piper it's just that every now and then he either goes too deep, or not as deep as he should
If it's hot outside, try lightweight baggy clothes. That's what desert people wear. How about a nice pair of linen pants?
Wellsaid! I believe that clothing can be hypocritical. If you only dress up for church, but dress according to worldly trends the rest of the time, are you really bringing glory to God? Unless I am working on my car or painting or something that will get really messy, I always dress the same. I feel like anything else would be hypocritical for myself. I would never impose this on others as if it were a biblical mandate, but it is what I feel God would have me to do.
The church has lost its reverence for God. Should we really be sipping our lattes while we sing about the holiness of God? Should we show up in shorts and flip-flops to worship God Almighty, when we have better clothes to wear?
I would hope I would be received in your fellowship if all I owned was shorts and flip flops.
During the last 40 years in churches around the world, people dress from formally to casually to sloppily.
Rose, I think you know better. If a man is saved while living in a cardboard box, we want him in the flock with us on Sunday and we don’t expect him to be wearing a suit and tie. And, I would certainly make sure he knows he’s welcome for Sunday dinner, too!
@@rosehammer9482 Of course we should receive poor people into our fellowship. But I'm just saying that if you can afford nice clothes, you should wear them to church.
@@susanh1447 Of course we should receive poor people into our fellowship. But I'm just saying that if you can afford nice clothes, you should wear them to church.
I used to find myself being judgemental of worship leaders who have tattoos all over their arms, wear earrings and others who have funky hair-do's, they look more like a rock band (add the colorful lights that change in the dark) Do we really need to do more than what the Bible says in order to attract today's youth? If you're a worship leader please let me know what your thoughts are. I have no desire to argue, it's just my opinion from what I've seen. In the end, i don't know what's in people's hearts/intentions. God bless!
Not sure about the earrings and funky hairdos but with the tattoos, its most likely a choice they made before they were saved. A lot of people in my church incl myself have tattoos, but that was done in our past life.
I'd wonder the same thing about the hairdos too.
Now you got me wondering if it's not right to wear earrings.
@@ReeDw. Your past life? That sounds like a Hindu belief.
@@Kelle0284
He/she is most likely referring to the way they lived before they were born again.
Dress your best to please God no one eles
I've seen my Pastor preach a sermon with Shorts on.
What is her name? Jezebel maybe.
Was he wearing the shorts under his vestures?
There is nothing like a straight answer. You won’t get it from this guy. Reformed preachers always like to complicate things because they are so intellectual, and not necessarily biblical.
Maybe he hasn't really reformed.
Pajamas duh. I’m on that quarantine dress code life, go to church via live RUclips showings.
Revelation 3:5, white raiment, no you cant buy it at the store and their is no falsehood in it. Sackcloth and ashes were worn in sincerity in the past. It’s unfortunate this is a topic of debate in many churches. I don’t care what someone wears as long as it’s not arrogance and contention with a mind full of evil thoughts. I just read romans 14 again and I think that covers this topic.
Hahaha 😂😂😂, imagine Jesus turning up to the great wedding in heaven wearing PJs
This makes it more critical for us to revere him while we meet every Sunday
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had
not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither
not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the
servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness;
there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
----------------------
For many are "called" by the Christian Gospel
But few are "chosen" to become saved
-------------------------
Iono, that’s kinda distracting lol
@@wisevirgin3405 Will you explain why you are quoting scripture in ye olde English? I just don't understand why fellow believers do this. I can understand for poetic reasons, but we do not talk like that anymore in conversations to eachother. I also see Christian's witnessing to the unsaved using old English. It better not to.
@@SacredFire777 Not a big fan of the King James Version?
If we dress up for church shouldn’t we dress up for personal devotional times with God, which I believe is far more important than church. If you think about this, most wouldn’t dress up for devotions but only dress up for church because it’s a tradition passed down.
I really liked Piper's first point on dressing to not distract, but I totally agree his point on dressing up to be "fitting" doesn't seem logically consistent. Dressing up for a 25th anniversary with the wife is a one-time thing, whereas God is omnipresent; God isn't more manifest in church than in the house at 6am. Church isn't a "more important" event than praying alone... so if it's "fitting" to dress up for church then by that logic it's just as fitting to dress up every waking hour of the day.
@@ardentword508 ... the larger point is whether a person act appropriately in church (or out of church).
Piper should have said that the church consists of BOTH saved wheat and unsaved tares and
acting inappropriately is showing the "fruit" of being an unsaved tare.
-----------
But Piper is AFRAID to talk about "tares" in the church.
That is a problem.
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Desire Of All Nations why not dress up for personal devotions. You are dressing up for God. In public you are dressing up for people.
@@BronsonLivesHere209 ... Child, do you realize how foolish you appear?
You can have personal devotions in your pajamas or underwear.
It would be disrespectful (to God) to wear pajamas or underwear to church.
If you want to be taken seriously you will need to THINK deeper than you are now.
--------------------
Wise Virgin I would take you seriously if you didn’t call me child and foolish. I choose not to have my devotions in my underwear because it would be disrespectful to God. Wearing my underwear in public is not disrespectful to God but immodest and was not what I was saying. You obviously dress for man and not for the Lord. God bless you sister.
Please don’t brush your teeth before going to church either because God loves you the way you are. Besides they probably can’t afford a toothbrush after paying for that nice tattoo. People really have lost their minds including pastor John John. Good night.
I get the principles that pastor John is proposing from the Scriptures but this is a conscience issue. I dress a certain way based on the congregation I’m going to. Is the church I go to is very big on wearing suits I’ll do that for the sake of honoring the house Play if I go to a church that is lenient about dress clothes then I will dress casually. This is a secondary issue and it is also a wisdom issue. There is not a One size fits all answer to this question. We have to be careful not to be a Pharisee and put standards that Jesus never set. We never want to hinder someone from entering into the kingdom because of a secondary issue. More importantly than the outside God looks on the inner and of course it’s not acceptable to wear revealing clothes or draw attention to yourself with very expensive jewelry and etc. but dressing more casually does not make someone less God-fearing and careless.
Once what you wear doesn't cause anyone else to sin it is ok.
N M M people should be able to also exercise self control. People could be caused to sin by the most minor things. Responsibility is important.
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
Most of the churches nowadays dont preach sound doctrine.. it's most earthy things, human desire, prosperity and never once mention anything about our sins and people just want spiritual experiences and healings that's has nothing to do with god.
Piper should have said there are "wheat" and "tares"
in the church and those dressing or acting inappropriately are simply
showing the "fruit" of being a "tare" instead of a "wheat".
That took about 30 seconds to get to Biblical Truth.
According to scripture it refers to
Women
GOD see's your Heart when you praise or worship him not how you dress. You are still don"t know the Word of GOD. Wearing a normal attire is just fine as long as not seductive attire. May GOD give you wisdom.
I will never understand why church doesn't wear formal attire. They always come with torn jeans, women with tight pants. Men with shorts. Why?
Because God expects you to come as you are, some people only towns shorts or torn jeans, and some women might only own tight pants. I rather see people wearing tight pants then wearing baggy pants that falls down pass the butt line. And God expects us to come as we are. Would you judge a poor man who goes to church wearing all he has because he isn't dress the way you expect him to?
How would you dress for a job interview? I see people in church with shorts and flip-flops like they are going to the beach.
Their is nothing wrong with going to church wearing shorts and flip flops, and remember back in the biblical times all they had was sandals/flip flops shoes as we see to day didn't exist in that time and shorts as long they ain't to Short is find to wear in church God doesn't tell you you must wear long pants and wear fancy shoes in church he only expect you to dress nice, And I never once dressed up for interviews I was went to interviews in normal clothes.
To be honest I think The Apostle Paul dressed what is equivalent to casual today
Yes sir. I’m sure he had a nose piercing and several tattoos so he could be a better evangelist.
@@mrnoedahl You think so, huh?
More RULEs! I am signing off. Thank you.
Teri Vo Brother/sister, I implore you not to look at something like this as ‘more rules.’ Rather, as a pursuit of holiness, something that we are doing because we revere Christ as our greatest treasure. God certainly is more interested in your heart than what you’re wearing. But with that being said, we should glorify God with our bodies. This is simply one way that we might revere Jesus. It’s not a rule, it’s a way you can love the Lord. That should be exciting. Peace and blessings.
Nicholas Scott she's better off if she asks pastor Jesus. ie has the one true pastor and books' author "exegete" (explain) things for her.
I only came on here to read comments: to see how many people would remark on the absurdity of such a question at such a time.
Teri, what "more rules" are you talking about?
Don’t worry, I’ll keep it simple - wear whatever you want.
Interesting topic when no one in America is physically going to church...
😁 excellent point!
This is a complete eisegesis of the texts. They have nothing to do with clothing. The Bible is clear, it only commands modesty. Dressing up is nowhere required in the New Testament, anyone who wants to is free to do it, but never judge those who don't, and specially do not make the Bible say what it does not.
I see elders and pastor s praying with hand in pocket
What would you wear if you were invited to the White House?
Your question is too simple for a reformed preacher to answer. You have to word it more intellectually.
@@mrnoedahl Intellectual enough for a reformed preacher? Now THAT I don’t understand.
@@susanh1447 Your question is exactly how he should have answered this question. It’s a no brainer. You are much smarter than this Reformed preacher. A reformed preacher is one who teaches Calvinism, where logic is above the scriptures.
@@mrnoedahl I have 9 years of higher education, but more importantly, I was raised on Billy Sunday and Billy Graham.
@@susanh1447 That’s great. Just remember the Bible trumps whatever man may say. I love Billy Graham’s early crusades. But he began to waver when he got into politics and he started to focus too much on social issues rather than on the gospel.
We won't be back in church unless we grow some balls
A short and to the point answer would have been more useful than this rambling in depth mainly irrelevant explanation. God is sovereign and so you dress accordingly. If your boss at work expects you to wear business attire because they entertain clients who might thow a bit of business their way, how much more important is it to wear something suitable to church befitting the Lord or Lords or King of Kings who's saved you from eternal damnation. What I find is anything but reverence and respect for the Lord. Most dress as though they've either dressed in the dark or slung on the last item they removed the night before that was crumpled after being sprawled on the bedroom floor. Scruffy, in other words.
So no, you don't wear your dirty or scruffy unkempt clothes. You look presentable at worst and smart at best but always modest and unostentatious and you wear clothing that is designed for your gender. That means women wear modest non sensual women's clothing you find in the women's department - female cut loose trousers or dresses/skirts, and men dress from the men's department with an ironed shirt and jacket. No unisex clothing or couples arriving in his and hers matching tops.
No one turns up like they're about to attend a rock concert, so no torn or tie dyed jeans or logo or slogan fronted T shirts. No one turns up like they're at a fashion parade, so no designer branded expensive or flashy wealth highlighting items. No one shows up like they're going to a wedding either with fancy flowery, chiffony, satiny, flowing cut or bright eye catching colours, and spangly this that and the other that draws attention to themselves and invites compliments and distracts from worship.
In other words, clothing for both sexes should be appropriate to gender, understated and simple, non expensive and clean and well pressed to give an overal impression of having made an effort to look your simple best.
It's not rocket science.
What about the people who have no nice clothes? Does JESUS Love you less!! What about the poor people?
There are plenty of nice clothes at goodwill, because so many people like you are trashing them.
God doesn't expect you to dress up in nice he expects you to come as you are. I remember a pastor who tested his church on his first day as he dressed up like a poor man who had nothing but ragged old torn clothes and the whole church judged him and attacked him for not dressing up and when they found out he was the new pastor testing them they where brought the church to shame for judging people based on appearance.
@@mrnoedahl you do know nice clothes won't make you closer to God if you judge a man because how he is dressed then you have a bigger issue that you need to figure out, are you gonna look down on a person because they wear what they had just be a use it doesn't fit your dress code. God doesn't judge people for what they wear he judge people base on their heart.
@@SouthernRebels94 What do they tell you when you are summoned for jury duty? No shorts, or tank tops. They expect you to honor the court by wearing decent clothes. How much more should we honor God by wearing proper clothing.
And that poor man story is just an excuse for the average person to wear whatever they want. The vast majority of people have at least one pair of descent clothes to wear.
And I am talking about regular church goer’s not the first time guest.
And it’s not a matter of judging people by what they wear; it’s a matter of respect for the Lord’s house.
What would you wear to go visit the President? Or what would you wear to your best friends wedding?
Still don’t get it?
@@mrnoedahl you can wear shirts on jury duty I seen it many times a court isn't gonna expect you to wear what you don't have. And man made courts and God are two different things what pleases man is not the same on what pleases God if you gonna base your own beliefs from man made traditions rather then what God says then you need to work on your own self righteous as being all self righteous isn't gonna get you in to Heaven. And you need to also learn what it truly means to be a Christian as of right know I can tell you have no idea on what a true Christian is as you follow the traditions of man rather then going by what God says.
Use more energy to dress for church than you used to go bar hopping.
I wear a suit and tie to church because I believe going to church be like a date. I dress up for dates with my wife for the same reason it should be special. Same reason we dress up for weddings and funerals respect to be respectful
Show RESPECT for God in church and out of church.
However Piper should have mentioned the church consists of BOTH
saved wheat and unsaved tares. And those acting inappropriately are only
showing the "fruit" of being unsaved tares.
@@grantarmbruster6591
Show RESPECT for God in church and out of church.
However Piper should have mentioned the church consists of BOTH
saved wheat and unsaved tares. And those acting inappropriately are only
showing the "fruit" of being unsaved tares.
@@wisevirgin3405 I agree but for the Christian it should be like going on a date you should offer your very best. It upsets me when I see men and women dressing down for church when I know full well they dress up for work or at least for job interviews
@@grantarmbruster6591 ... I agree. We should treat it as the most important event of our week.
I only qualify that by the fact that some people do not own "good clothes"... so "clean clothes"
must do for them - and they can be the most blessed in the church. My point is simply in our
clothes and especially in our behavior we should be respectful of GOD while in church
(and also out of church)
--------------------
God does look on the heart, but that doesn't give you an excuse to dress like a slob. Your body is a temple of the holy Spirit. Quit wearing yoga pants and ripped jeans to church.
@Leland Brown the pictures not me. It's a family member of mine. But nonetheless, I'm glad. I want to be identified with principled living.
Yeah. Yoga is evil.
Their is nothing wrong with wearing yoga pants or rip jeans to church as long it fits you properly. Man shouldn't dress the way that pleases you God isn't gonna judge someone wearing what they have at the time. Would you judge a homeless man if he enters a church with holes all over his shirt and dirty shorts because that's all he has to wear? If not then why judge a man for wearing yoga pants and ripped jeans. What I can't stand are Christians who wanna act all holier then tho attitudes .
@@SouthernRebels94 I agree that a homeless man should be accepted to church for whatever he wears. I agree with that passage in James. What I am addressing is disciples of Christ who know better yet do not change how they live for Christ.
@@aisforamerica2185 yeah but yago pants and ripped jeans has nothing to do with people not changing how they live. It would be more helpful if you was much more clearer in your explanations. Sorry if I took what you said the wrong way.
All nonsense. Home church forever.