Top 3 Weirdest Non-Conventional Ammunition Ever Developed
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- Опубликовано: 7 июл 2024
- In this video I'm exploring the technology and science of non-conventional ammunition, including caseless rounds and telescoped ammunition, together with a little bit of history. I also made some didactic models to easily show what each technology looks like, and to highlight the advantages and disadvantages of each solution.
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Forgotten Weapons' video on the G11 program:
• Kraut Space Magic: the... 
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“We don’t fire the round, we fire the whole bullet! That’s 67% more bullet!”
-someone from Portal 2
Cave Johnson i assume
@@ihatethatyoutubedisplaysyo8106 That sounds like something Cave Johnson would say lol.
@@nice8D no, he literally said that
@@ihatethatyoutubedisplaysyo8106 :)
... per bullet!
Please do get the license! I hope it isn't too expensive
Sadly it is quite expensive, especially for certain levels of license.
@@EvelynH-tj1qt Come to Texas, bro, you can have all the weapons you want and fire and modify them in your backyard
@@jeffr3773 I live in the U.S. and while you can't fire them in your backyard I can shoot them anywhere not in a city pretty much.
Well if you have enough land that is
@@EvelynH-tj1qt Depends on how big your yard is. Suburban backyard on a cul-de-sac? Nah probably not a good idea. Bat-fuck nowhere where your closest neighbor is a mile away? Fuck it bring out the 50 bmg.
"We've got to be careful"
*hits it with a hammer*
I subconsciously flinched
Its a bullet extractor. The primer is not impacted
Lol, imagine if there was a Powder Actuated Hammer. Of that design.
@@jatpack3 yeah but it was just funny timing
That takes apart the round and just leaves the primer you have to press out
“Reduces weight of rifle and ammunition” *LOOKS AT FOLDED ROUNDS* This accomplishes neither of these things!
but we folded it in half , so its smaller, therefore it weighs less :D
@@hellsonion514 It still carries the same weight, its folded, not cut.
@@yeahoklol7848 BUT. WE. FOLDED. IT. IN. HALF. SO. IT'S. SMALLER. :|
Is...is this 'Katana' logic? Jesus.
the barrel easily weight more than ammo, itll weight as much as a few mags. if you could shorten it by a few inches without losing accuracy that will allow you to hold even one more mag it will be worth it.
Well it seems there are very good reasons why caseless ammo isn´t more common. Thanks for explaining Carlo.
Kraut space magic was the closest that it ever came to being
It’s actually been addressed in G11’s development and what we commonly hear repeated now are just outdated info. There was a rather recent development too in the form of the caseless variant of the LSAT LMG. It was fairly competent but was not pursued further as CT showed more promise.
Because there is no case for it, once the pros and cons are weighed up.
@@rickoshea8138 solid pun
Once we can figure out more powerful batteries, I think electric weapons like railguns or coilguns will solve the ammo weight issue. I know we are nowhere near that yet, but I look forward to advancing tech.
I hope you get that license! How easy is it build/design firearms legally in Italy? Do the laws vary across regions?
Gun laws are all the same across Italy. I dunno about that license but I'm pretty sure it's shall-issue, it's probably a burocratic mess tho
I think in Italy you need to have a gun license and or a gunsmith license (for producing receivers and such) but I'm no Italian so take my word with a grain of salt
@@notme1998 Dovrà aspettare qualche anno che il questore firmi un documento e nel mentre pagare qualche tassa a caso
It's not much harder than starting up a restaurant or a driving school really, but like any new "company" it requires quite a few expenses and time, so I would only do it if my viewers are interested enough. But apparently they are😉
We are noth a Federal country dude XD laws are the same for all the country u silly
"If this gets enough like ill go get a license to produce my own weapons for your entertainment and criticizm" what a god
Textron has actually already addressed both issues you’ve brought up with CT. It’s actually one of the three entries of the US NGSW program that’s set to conclude around 2021, though likely extended due to current events.
Firstly, because the CT case is polymer, it expands and forms a seal over the chamber and over the chamber to barrel gap, allowing all gas to be funneled down the barrel. This, coupled with the effective heat insulation of the case material, has lead to an increase in bullet performance down range.
Second, Textron’s rifle entry into the NGSW program does feature a linear moving chamber that gets pushed down by a pair of tracks connected to the “bolt” carrier. As the carrier recoils, it pulls the tracks back which are curved downwards after the initial straight lines, forcing the chamber downwards and aligned with the next round in the magazine. As the bolt comes forward, it pushes the next round into the chamber and the first out, ejecting it through the ejection chute and the chamber is allowed to rise up under spring tension after the reload is fully completed and the tracks become straight again.
Andywuhu basically it’s the same as the styer acr action
Zocker 94 yeah kinda
Lassi Kinnunen I’m fairly certain both have been evaluated during LSAT and this is just further reiterations based on the military’s needs. There are quite a few articles done by TFB if you search the LSAT tag that talk about it quite extensively
Personally haven't looked in to or heard about these tests, and while it sounds good, I suspect that in the real world they will become jam-o-matics. Not only would I suspect that it is vulnerable to any problems in large production polymer processes, but ejecting long straight wall cases tends to create problems, and pushing them totally through seems like a recipe for mechanical failures. I look forward to reading the results.
I've seen models of them. They are far more complex than your average military rifle, which is usually a bad thing.
Also we don't know if these issues have been addressed or they just claim to have been. That's why they are being tested c:
Don't forget the "Trounds" of the Dardick open chamber system..
Rounds that are so old the damn plastic made to Hold the bullets and powder Is unstable now.
@@gagejohnathan9641 If only the technology existed to reproduce shapes and powder...
@@MichaelCorryFilms and I probably should've added this. But the 3d printed trounds aren't exactly Perfect either, they're just adaptors to Normal rounds.
@@gagejohnathan9641 Yeah, I've seen the issues you are talking about with the plastics cracking, etc. and an adapter really isn't the point. I do think it would interesting to experiment with. There were apparently aluminum casings made and I wonder if some of the infused 3d plastics may work.
Tank shells have a casing that burns up when the shell is shot, so you are left with only the metal cap. This is important since there's not enough space inside the turret to hold a whole bunch of spent casings. Maybe some rifle ammo will go that route
Imagine reloading your magazine under fire in a fox hole and everyone is yelling at you to hurry up meanwhile every 3rd round of careless ammo you insert breaks.......
That is why the G11's ammo came in plastic cases not unlike Candy Pez dispensers.
You stuck them on the end of a G11 mag and it fed them in when you pushed on the back of the case of ammo.
By far one of the most interesting and informative gun channels. Criminally underrated.
I'm wondering how the pressure curve in that last round would look like, since the powder ignition pattern and gas flow in the chamber would be so different than in conventional ammunition. Great quality content from you, as always. I already subscribed to your channel a long time ago, but I really hope you get way more subscribers. Your really deserve it. Have you considered doing a collaboration video with bigger channels like Forgotten Weapons or C&Rsenal? I would believe your highly detailed and technical approach would go in line with their type of content, and their higher subscriptor numbers would mean good publicity for your channel. Greetings from Argentina!
hey there, thanks for the kind words. I'd love to collaborate with such channels, but I'm afraid they're too big to be bothered doing a collaboration with me. I would really love to though
@@Backyard.Ballistics I would suggest contacting them. Worst case scenario, they don't reply. Keep up the good work, regardless!
@@Backyard.Ballistics contact Bloke on the range or Armorer's Bench, they are much smaller and I believe they are both European channels.
@@oliverpasztor788 another Brit has a video about a "belt-fed lever-action bull-pup" chambered in .44mag modified from a Ruger rifle if I remember correctly.
Oh it worked well with a 3 round burst before the recoil hit the shooter with the g11 and it was more accurate then the standard g3 also you would have 3 single staked magazines with 50 rounds each on the gun the other 2 where spare mags so instead of carrying them have them on the gun already
And it’s just fun to think about that if all the plastic parts from the g11 are gone you just have a giant peace of gears one barrel with a recoil spring on one side of the barrel and on the other the gas piston and the chamber is a rotating wheel with square holes in it and a plunger that pushes the round out of the chamber if there is a potential misfire also the cleaning kit is just in the grip and it’s just a brass brush to clean the chamber from the hold where a round would leave the chamber if it nisfired
You didn't called him Gun Jesus : (
I must do penance now...
@@Backyard.Ballistics for penance you must fire 250 rounds from a zip 22
@@thomastruant8837 eternal damnation
@@thomastruant8837 now thats crual!!!
@@SouseMouse I'd say it's about a half damnation
Idea - Casings that burn, melt, or vaporize from the heat of the propellant, and are vented out of the barrel or an actuating vent instead of a traditional extractor. I assume the casing would be significantly lighter than the normal metal kind, and would still be able to prevent heat transfer like a normal casing does.
This idea was experimented by The Steyr ACR (telescopic plastic cased ammo) and the HK G11 (Completely caseless ammo) . The big problem is that both had Major problems of Propellant Cook-off on both and a problem unique of the Steyr ACR which was fragmented cases that endangered bystanders and the user.
Battleship cannons loaded their propellant in silk bags which burnt up in the explosion. Probably doesn't scale down well though.
@@nerd1000ify British tanks use charge bags as well.
I for one would love to see you get a gunsmithing license to try out these weird designs. Maybe consider taking an inspiration from Halo's SMG since iirc it uses square caseless ammo
Many sci-fi weapons say they use "caseless ammo", but given the fact an art director/3D designer doesn't necessarily have to be a mechanical engineer or a gunsmith I doubt most actually work.
"We have a serious plastic problem in the world!"
- makes plastic bullet casings -
@Ra Mo lol I'm pretty sure we do stuff like lead free ammo because we're a part of NATO. I sincerely doubt that plastic casings would be allowed. But who knows maybe I'm wrong.
@Ra Mo there are a lot of us who are bad people but there are a lot of us who aren't.
Nothing like ending our existence 30 rounds at a time.
@Ra Mo China dumps more plastic and causes more pollution than all of the other leading countries combined
@@anonymuos1592 India too
I was thinking about longer bullet which is the case: it's hollow, filled with powder and sealed by the primer.
The high capacity Volcanic pistol of the late 19th century used the hollow bullet as the powder case. It was underpowered - there isn't enough room inside the bullet if you're using black powder. I think the idea could be tried again with smokeless - since smokeless powder has about three times the energy density of black powder. A fast powder like Bullseye would make the most sense. Even so, a modern version would not be a magnum. Primerless, electric ignition has been successfully done, there used to be an electrically ignited muzzle loader on the market.
A modern, electrically primed version of Volcanic pistol could work, the ammo could save a lot of weight.
@@deandeann1541 Calling the volcanic underpowered is a bit like calling the universe big. It's true, but not a powerful enough descriptor. Modern .22 LR has about twice the power of the original Volcanic repeater. Smokeless powder can reach maximum chamber pressures about three times as high as black powder but that doesn't mean the bullet has three times as much energy on target. Furthermore, the limitations of the design on the Volcanic pistol and ammunition mean much lower chamber pressures are safe to use. At best you're probably looking at a 30% increase in muzzle energy but that's pretty optimistic and it's still not even close to .22 LR.
And to compete with modern pistols it has to be semi-automatic or at least double action like a revolver. It sounds possible to make one that is reliable but it would be more expensive to produce. Especially if it's electronically fired (Which I've seen done before but it still required a primer to reliably ignite the gunpowder and it was a dismal failure commercially.)
It sounds like a cool novelty project but I don't think it's in any way practical to have a really expensive pistol that's less powerful than .22 LR, with ammunition that is actually heavier than .22 LR, and is potentially unreliable. The advantage for such a handgun is that you wouldn't be leaving a little brass case I guess.
Russians did that with the VAG-72/73.
Basically is was like the Gyrojet but the primer was made to disintegrate releasing all the gasses quickly rather than over time.
If the weight to propellant ratio of the rocket ball was fixed. Perhaps by using soild copper or aluminum bullets that can still engauge the rifling, the velocity jump should bring it on par with say a 9mm.
A blow forward design could be used to rechamber the rifle, but then you run into the problem of making the rifle heavier than the ammo weight saved
Did you get your license yet?
Another great video ! I hope this channel gets the recognition it deserves as I don't know of many more firearms channels that present the topic in such interesting and intelligent ways !
7:24 "Kraut Space Magic" :D
Chillout Yankee. WWII is long gone no need for slurs
@@almerindaromeira8352 What. Who cares?
@@almerindaromeira8352 it's a direct quote of Ians title for the G11 video
Ahhhh. My first Italian RUclipsr. I always get Dutch ones.
With a caseless design, one wonders about the feasibility of electrically fired ammo, doing away with primers as well...
It's impossible to find primers in usa right now🤷♂️
your explanation about CT ammo makes textron's bid in the NGSW program make much more sense, I didn't know how much more fitting that design was to plastic cased cartridges. thank you!
i would love to see you build a gun with non conventional ammo mate!
If you actually end up getting a manufacture license, go with the up-down as in your model and make it a gas-action Toggel lock.........
Yes you can all hit me, but hey, rule of cool
For the longest time I was searching for videos on caseless ammo. Thanks for finally featuring them.
So happy to see your channel continue to grow, keep it up. Your content holds my attention every time
Your channel is criminally underrated.
Can't wait for warzones to be filled with plastic instead of metals
I still feel this channel is incredibly underrated. Get that license. I look forward to seeing what comes next! Till then I will continue recommending this channel to people.
I always learn a lot from your channel. You present the information concisely and in a straightforward manner. I really appreciate what you do, thanks!!
And reducing cost, that would be nice. Interesting as always.
I love this channel
I just found this channel and it’s exactly what I’ve been looking for. I don’t want to watch people shoot huge guns at wacky things over and over again. I just want to learn about the guns and such. Very interesting channel. And I hope you get your license!
I'm so happy RUclips brought me to you. This is my third video in a row and I definitely subscribed. Loooove the accent. All the best
Another weird one would be the Daisy caseless ammo from the 60s (I think). It was made and sold commercially, with no military attempts that I am aware of.
They had to stop selling it because it reclassified as a firearm, right?
@@flightlesschicken7769 yup, that is my understanding as well. Daisy wasnt licensed as a firearms manufacturer. The "VL" ammunition looks like a green feed pellet stuck on the back of a 22 bullet. There is some for sale locally right now.... wonder it it works still :p
Here's an idea for a cartridge for a "muzzle loader" that could fire at speeds comparable to a breech loader.
The cartridge and the barrel are one and the same. The cartridge is extended and the bullet is seated deeply in it so the cartridge can act as the barrel. It would lock into some base with a trigger in it to fire the round. After that you simply pull the whole cartridge out, discard it, and insert a new one.
Let's say the base that the cartridge is attached to has a steel tube to support the cartridge where the pressures are the highest. Perhaps it also has some locking lugs on it so you could twist it into place.
The cartridges would be fairly heavy and expensive but it fills all the criteria. It is a self contained cartridge that is inserted into the "muzzle" of a tube that is permanently sealed on one end (except for maybe a small hole for the ignition source to go through if the cartridge lacks a primer) but can be reloaded at the speed of a single shot breach loader.
This idea would probably work best for pistols where the pressures are lower and the barrel lengths are shorter. That would save on weight through both a thinner cartridge and a shorter cartridge.
Edit: fixed quotation marks
Metal Storm Limited's MAUL project has a very similar intent to this. The rounds are stacked in the barrel, with each layer of propellant being electronically activated by the pull of the trigger. They're projects are worth a read.
@@suprtroopr1028 I heard about it. It is not unlike a modern version of the Chamber's Flintlock Machine Gun. It was invented in the 1780s and used in the war of 1812 on the USS Constitute. It could fire 120 rounds a minute for about 2 minutes. So really when anyone says "they never could have predicted automatic weapons" they are wrong, they were well aware of the possibility. Especially the Founding Fathers of America as it was shown to them by the inventor.
No surviving documents of its efficacy on the USS Constitution are known to exist.
@@flightlesschicken7769 it's a shame when hardware like that vanishes to time
@@suprtroopr1028 I believe there are exactly two surviving examples of it. There is a Forgotten Weapons episode on them. I would recommend it
One of my absolute favourite channels on yt! Keep it up!
Ah yes, G11, the Kraut Space Magic.
I wanna know what the magazine’s for folded cartridges would look like
4:33 mn look at the the empty cases flying, imagine there were conventional metal case, i'm sure it would looks like this if you are firing on the moon or an other planet with less gravity :)
If there was less gravity recoil would be greater
@@abyssstrider2547 sure maybe in off to quickly raise him , with a burst i think
@@abyssstrider2547 Yes im pretty sure with the moon gravity with only one burst the shooter would be raised up
What a great video.
So much information. You are very knowledgeable, and you conveyed that information in an eloquent, easy-to-understand way.
Good presentation ... well presented ... much to consider here.
Please, study the history of the Daisy VL system.
I think you gave us a big clue to a potential solution of the challenge with the segment on cookoff. Use a ramrod to strip off a caseless round from a magazine ahead of the open end of the barrel and push it to the closed end. Remove the ramrod. Use a method of rapidly heating the closed end of the barrel above cookoff temperature. Magnetic induction could be used, or just conduct heat into the barrel by contacting it with an already heated block of metal. After firing, remove the heat source and rapidly cool the barrel some way (contact with a heatsink block) to prevent immediate cookoff of the next round inserted with the ramrod. If the barrel remained strong enough to withstand ignition pressures while also being made from a material that is less susceptible to magnetic induction of heat, a small heatable "primer" element could be inserted into the rear of each caseless round instead. That means you don't have to heat the barrel directly and could sustain fire for longer. Maybe the whole propellant mixture could be made to allow for induction heating.
p.s. before something explodes make sure the magazine has a cover to prevent cookoff of all the ammo at once, since it has to be close to the open end of the barrel.
edit: or steal metal storm's idea and use electrical ignition.
The cookoff issue was actually already addressed in the development of the G11, the outdated info has just stuck around similar to outdated info that the railgun is fragile. Textron who developed the CT ammunition seen at the first part of the video also designed a caseless variant during early stages of the LSAT program, it was not pursued but they had no issue with what people typically consider to be the common design problems of caseless ammo.
@@andywuhu6720 The above comment was supposed to be a reply to the challenge at the end of the video.
D W oops, sorry. Thought you were talking about caseless
@@andywuhu6720 yeah, first thought i had too... Ram rods, just push forward, then rearwards, pick catridge from tube mag, retractable ram rod seems a good debug tool
Wow. Incredible. Exactly what I was looking for, thank you.
Wonderful video. As a firearms enthusiast I love this type of research.
This makes me think of the the Nagant revolver.
I just sold one a few weeks ago........I could never find ammo for it.
me, an american: "what do you mean, you need a license to make a gun!?"
Lol Americans still need a license to make a firearm
@@kaleberg1528 Nope. (as long as it is never traded/sold and only for yourself individually)
@@etherealceleste You can sell it provided you didn't build with the intent to sell. You just need to mark the firearm in accordance with 27 CFR 472.92
@E-Tron Yeah I'm aware. BATFE opinion letters change on a whim, and the "safe" advice it to just serialize it. This is the what 80% receiver companies will tell you to do.
Found your channel after falling into a RUclips rabbit hole of discussion over the catastrophic failure incident jnvolving Kentucky Ballistics. I really liked your approach in examining/deconstructing what happened when the rifle exploded so I'm checking out your other vids. Keep up the great content. SUBSCRIBED
Informative! Well done.
where can i send design ideas for unorthodox cartridges? i call my the 'fat reverse rim fire'. i have made a simple drawing i would like to send
You can of course send it to backyardballisticsco@gmail.com
Are you italian?
He is
Homie I really appreciate your video :D and the ammunition box next to you as a decorative piece is also cool :))
Intresting video, didn't know about the caseless and polymer ammo thanks.
Very nice presentation! Thank you for sharing :)
Ahhh the 'G11- Kraut Spacemagic Video' ^^ good crossreference. that alone was worth a like
Thanks for this very technical presentation.
So glad I stumbled spin this channel. Pretty awesome!
The up-and-down action has been successfully implemented before too on Madsen weapons. The 1888/1896 self loading rifle and the Madsen MG. Forgotten Weapons had some great videos covering them. It doesn't work exactly the same and still requires an ejector, but it could be inspiration for how something like that might work mechanically.
I have absolutely no idea why I wasn't subscribed to You before.
Super interesting content man, thanks :)
good shit man, great analysis. best of luck to you.
This was great. Good to see someone actually look into how caseless worked instead of just repeating fuddlore.
I would point out that the heat taken out by the cases is pretty small though.
One of the more interesting ideas I saw for a case-less round can be compared to a naval gun. It used a compressed pellet of powder and an interesting action to first feed and chamber the bullet, then seat the pellet and close the breech. Electronically fired and single shot, but it worked.
Just found your channel and I love it.... Subbed right after watching your "Italian gun freedoms" video.
Always nice to see this kkind of thinking half way around the world.
Hello from the US
PLEASE MORE CONTENT. I LOVE THIS CHANNEL
Nice job man
We're rooting for you man! Get that license!!!
Fantastic video my man!
For your proposed closed breach weapon you could stack caseless ammunition similar to the multiprojectile civil war era weapons. Theoretically you could stack as many shots in the barrel as you have room and touch off each charge in sequence. Alternatively there was one design where the center of each projectile had a small passage which allowed each round to be automatically lit by the one ahead of it. You could have a 50 shot automatic with no way to stop it :p
I actually found your channel by searching for ideas on dieseled air rifles. I was planning to reload a huge pile of brass i have. Ammo shortages here have made primers impossible to buy. So I've been searching for other solutions
great info bro. keep it up.
I liked and sub'd as soon as you mentioned the licensing. I would enjoy watching this a lot.
Great job! Congrats!
That Challenge sounds Great!
Thank you for explaining this funky tec
I really appreciate your approach and deep analysis. You make terrific videos. Would you consider doing a video on electronically configured/initiated firearms?. The Metal Storm is one example I know of.
Dont blink when you shoot, trust me it will help and its better to fix it before it becomes a bad habit. I look forward to seeing the future of these new types of ammo, awesome vid.
well made vid thank you
I hope you get the license dude! Look forward to seeing more from you.
Great channel dude
Love these videos.
I had designed a SPW(Special Purpose Weapon) almost like the gyrojet, but in fact, it would work as a regular gun, but the "case" would be projected with the projectile.
It's like a long 9x19mm with propellant and the primer as a single part, and the gun was meant to be an open bolt SMG
I just found your channel and am really impressed with the detail and quality of information. I'm watching many videos you've done so far. I wonder if you could cover the Metal Storm concept as originally developed in Australia. How it functions and fires as well as design of barrels, electronic firing system, pressures and velocities. This seems like what you are looking at with caseless ammunition fired from a barrel only open on one end. It also has a high rate of fire when rounds are stacked within the barrel.
thanks for giving me something new to think about
Regardless of how unsuccesful it was, the caseless ammo G11 is a sexy machine and the concept is awsome.
You are one clever-minded, inventive little dude. You know that? I do appreciate the engineering style of your presentation.
great video. Folded ammunition!
Weird munition & ballistic stuff
Suscribed !
nice video, thank you !
greetins from vienna!
Really cool video you even touched on the gyrojet but you forgot about the tround it was originally used in the dardick but also up scaled to .50 and tested by the navy. It was a cool electric fed open chamber weapon. The rounds simply rolled into the “chamber” fired and were pushed out by the next round. The advantage was no horizontal cycling so a higher fire rate. it was a interesting idea but ultimately didn’t really go anywhere either.
I'd love to see you do a video on the 3 different firearms that are currently part of the US Next Generation Squad Weapon Program. Those being the Sig Sauer, General Dynamics and Textron. Especially since two of the offerings have somewhat non-traditional ammo choices. I know you covered a bit about the Textron firearm but I would definitely want to see more.
Thanks for the info. I learned something here today.
Glad to hear it!
Pump-action slamfire with a telescoping barrel. Inner section of barrel strips the cartridge from the magazine, pushes it down inside outer barrel until it hits a fixed firing pin at the bottom. Cartridge is loaded and ejected at the muzzle of the outer barrel and fired at its breech, whilst the breech of the inner barrel moves up and down as the gun cycles. Sort of like some improvised slamfire pipe guns, but turned into a repeating action.
Your channel is super interesting; I love learning the scientific side of the hobby. Just became your newest subscriber.
chEErs
An actual entertaining video
Very good
PLEASE BUILD THESE it would be such an interesting video
Nice school supplies! 👌
Great channel! You are thinking!