The Poles bought the rights and machinery from Belgium, not the Soviets. Kris Gasior has the information. The Soviets in 1929 were not about to sell anything to the Poles, who had kicked their beasts of burden in the 1920's.
Polish Nagant is very similar to the Russian. The differences stem from the accuracy of workmanship and materials used. I have a 100 times greater confidence in weapons manufactiring Polish. They count parameters hardening steel, steel processing, steel composition. In this respect, weapon Poland is one of the best in the world.
Well, back in the 20th century at least. The new weapons have really been getting crappy, apart from the licensed P99's and the new VIS 35. I once shot the WZ.98 beryl and it was awesome. No malfunctions, much fun. But the MSBS Grot has several major problems.
@@perfectlynormalhuman5473 what kind of problems regarding msbs are you referring to? I'm curious. I've shot it and was pretty impressed but of course that doesn't give the big picture. I would assume that the issues come from he fact that these rifles are still a very early production. Beryls in the 90s also left much to be desired, but improved with time. I mean msbs is a completely different beast to a beryl, in terms of materials and production technique. They need to aquire the know-how to improve the quality of the product and that only comes with time and practise. I mean Łucznik had built ak's for close to half a century and MSBS's for like 5 years
You know Ian, I just want to say that I really enjoy your videos and have learned a lot from them. Wishing you well, you've definitely had an impact on many people.
If cocking the hammer on the Nagant seals the cylinder to the barrel, would that feature mean that this revolver could use a suppressor? If so, this weapon would be one of the few revolver types to do so, wouldn't it?
+Jesse Sisolack Russian arms production has mostly tended to follow the same cycle: 1.) "Oh shit, XYZ are the Next Big Thing in weapons, we don't have enough XYZ to equip our massive army, we need more, and we need them yesterday." 2.) "Our production facilities for XYZ aren't sufficient to produce that many so quickly. We need bigger factories." 3.) "The immediate need has passed but we've got those massively oversized factories now mass-producing XYZ." 4.) "Well, might as well sell 'em off somewhere. Somebody's going to find a use for them..."
I just recently found a picture of sovet soldiers in Afghanistan equipped with type 3 milled ak47 and aks47. Keep in mind that at the time the ak74 should have replaced the akm which should have replaced the type 3 milled ak
@@simone.Lmo.639-2 47 haven't been completely phased out by then and it was used expecially by specnaz and some reconaisance units, due to balistic characteristics of 7.62x39 and its ability to shoot heavier, sub-sonic round. When replaced by AK-74, old AK's haven't been scraped, but went into storage. There's no reason why one of the operators woulnd't use old milled receiver AK, dug out by quatrermaster somewhere from the botom shelf, when issuing this type of weapon was necessary, just because this specyfic AK was available at the moment.
I enjoy the quirkiness of the Russian Nagant i picked up. It certainly is an interesting way to build a pistol. I couldn't hit a barn with it, however, if I were locked inside. I checked barrel alignment and the barrel itself is spotless. I've tried a couple diferent ammunition sources. Are these typically inaccurate handguns?
I've seen TFBTVs video/review of their Nagant revolver and they had lots of malfunctions... Do you think that the higher quality of production would make the Polish version more reliable or is it just a flawed design? I really like your videos Ian because I am a huge history fan and since I'm from Germany I will never have a chance to even see mod to those guns with my own eyes so your content is a cool inside to firearms also love inrange tv
They probably made a bajillion of them because they could be relied upon, the Polish quality probably helped that along as opposed to Russian "if it fires get it out the door" policy.
Seems like the gas seal was wasted on such an anemic cartridge. Would it be practical to build a revolver in something like .327 or .357 (except with extended cases) using the forward-camming cylinder, or is the cam system fundamentally too weak to operate reliably with high pressure loadings?
Such an unique revolver. Since there is no ban on Poland, can't we import whatever is leftover, along with all those special ammo to the States? I am sure the gun collectors here will gobble them up in no time.
That factory has a name: Łucznik, pronounce: Wootchnic or Woochnic. Would be nice to hear You say it in an another polish gun video :) have a nice Day.
+Endryo7 Well it is more complicated. First it was Fabryka Broni Radom(Arms/Weapons Factory Radom), then after war comunist governement decided to rebuilt this factory and it was called Zakłady Metalowe im. ren. "Waltera" (Gen. "Walter" Metal Works - Walter was call signt of Karol Swierczewski he fought on communist side in Polish-Soviet War in 1920, also in Spanish civil war, then he led Polish 2nd army on Berlin. He was Moscow puppet who worked for NKVD...), later they changed name to Zakłady Metalowe Łucznik (Bowman Metal Works) and in 2000 they defaulted on ruins new Fabryka Broni Łucznik - Radom was created. Name Łucznik was used for bikes produced in 30ties by FB, then for typewriters and sweing machines produced there.
+nielubieplackow184 yup,most european countries/peoples had their own alphabets to go with their languages.the german double s and the polish w are vestiges of those language.
+Silvia Smith Ł is not L Polish L is read like English L in Loud Polish Ł is read like English W in Whisky Polish W is read like English V in Victor Polish is one of the hardest languages to learn so we Poles know You will butcher our language and its kinda cute when You break Your tongues on it :)
my Russian made one must have sat in a crate is whole life. the barrel is still shiny as a mirror and the finish looks like it just came off the line. guess I lucked out and got a perfect example of one. it's a great conversation piece at my local range.
"... and the Russians made somewhere like approximately a gazillion of them" Damnit Ian, your videos are really nice, but when you're being so technical and stuff... that's when you *nail* it
Ian where can you buy a Russian Nagant pistol for $99??? If you can find one they are over $250 now. Thanks for your videos I look forward to more shooting videos.
Gorgeous little gun, that one. Even with the wear that comes naturally with use and age, it still looks really nice. Unrelated, Ian: have you ever bid on a gun you made a video on? If yes, did you win it?
+Orlando Medeiros Yes, I have bid on a couple guns I did videos about, and I did win one of the too. Usually I am selfish, and don't do videos on stuff I am planning to try to buy myself. :)
Yes, you can supresor the Ng30 but it require the gunsmithing tools to fit the supresor. Due to their use as police/security guard history it wasnt done on mass but they were at least few isntances of polish inter-war mobster doing that and it was also done in more modern history for movie's ( They used real nagants as prop guns with blanks).
Hi Ian, i love your videos more than my life, but why firearms you observe are more and more common and usual? Somedays you've had really cool guns like Roper shotgun or Chinese mystery pistols, or some early LMG's. They had both great history and interesting insides. What happened to cool firearms? :c
+Peter Chairing This series of videos is from one of Rock Island's "regional" auctions, which has lower-value items than their "premiere" auctions. Immediately following this series will be one form James D. Julia, which is loaded with really high-end rare items (I'm filming there this week).
+FPS Poland Germany was actually still a rather peaceful republic in the 1920's. Lots of revolutionaries and all, but the foreign policies were... peaceful. The term 'Third Reich' is really only used to indicate the completely remodeled nation Adolf Hitler created as the... Well... Third big German empire - the first and second being the Holy Roman Empire and the German Empire 1871-1918 respectively. What I am saying is that their western neighbours were technically the last iteration of the Second Reich.
FPS Poland However, saying that the Weimar Republic would have acted against Poland or not is theorycrafting by this point. Recognizing Poland's need for defense against both those countries is correct. In that sense, your statement is sane. Saying (with the knowledge we have now) that they had to bolster their defenses against the Weimar Republic specifically is not so sane.
There's actually a Yiddish antifascist song from the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising called "Zog Nit Keynmol" or "Never Say This Is The End" that contains the line "Dos lid gezugen mit naganes in di hent!" Almost every translation I've seen online translates this as "this song was sung with pistols in our hands" but i don't think this is quite accurate considering the yiddish word for Pistol is "Piztole" not "Naganes". My theory is the line actually references the Nagant revolver specifically and the use of "pistols" in translations is just to simplify things for people who don't know anything about guns. Just a cool bit of history i wanted to mention.
+Forgotten Weapons Is it possible to make a video of wz. 35 anti-tank rifle? Could you get your hands on one? I guess it will be first good depiction of that design, same thing You did with Pancor!
I trained on that sht, unfortunately on the russian version. A lot of keyholing on 10m range. Ain't worth sht if put next to e. g. Colt Walker, Peacemaker or S&W model 28.
Some comments about how unreliable the design is... I highly doubt the gun would've seen use for such a long time if the design was inherently unreliable.
I owned a 30's dated Tula Nagant and aside from it not shooting point of aim, it was an awesome little revolver for $90. Traded it and a Walther P1 on a correct grade Garand, so I can't really complain it's gone
The Poles bought the rights and machinery from Belgium, not the Soviets. Kris Gasior has the information. The Soviets in 1929 were not about to sell anything to the Poles, who had kicked their beasts of burden in the 1920's.
+vonmazur1 Whoops - thanks for the correction!
+Forgotten Weapons No biggie, Kris Gasior told me the whole story on this handgun.
Talking of 30's Polish weapons. Can you get your hands on an UR AT riffle ? It would be lovely to see a video on that.
1:29 the concept of Elbonia is born.
A very factual and substantive description of the Polish Nagant and historical facts 👍
Greetings from Poland 🇵🇱
Polish appreciation month? :)
+Rollo Red Only 40 more days to go!
Are You gonna be able to find/get Polish occupation sub-machine gun called: "Błyskawica"?
It would be amazing if so :D
Polish Nagant is very similar to the Russian. The differences stem from the accuracy of workmanship and materials used. I have a 100 times greater confidence in weapons manufactiring Polish. They count parameters hardening steel, steel processing, steel composition. In this respect, weapon Poland is one of the best in the world.
Well, back in the 20th century at least. The new weapons have really been getting crappy, apart from the licensed P99's and the new VIS 35. I once shot the WZ.98 beryl and it was awesome. No malfunctions, much fun. But the MSBS Grot has several major problems.
@@perfectlynormalhuman5473 what kind of problems regarding msbs are you referring to? I'm curious. I've shot it and was pretty impressed but of course that doesn't give the big picture. I would assume that the issues come from he fact that these rifles are still a very early production. Beryls in the 90s also left much to be desired, but improved with time. I mean msbs is a completely different beast to a beryl, in terms of materials and production technique. They need to aquire the know-how to improve the quality of the product and that only comes with time and practise. I mean Łucznik had built ak's for close to half a century and MSBS's for like 5 years
You know Ian, I just want to say that I really enjoy your videos and have learned a lot from them. Wishing you well, you've definitely had an impact on many people.
If cocking the hammer on the Nagant seals the cylinder to the barrel, would that feature mean that this revolver could use a suppressor? If so, this weapon would be one of the few revolver types to do so, wouldn't it?
+Ross Collicutt That is the main emphasis when talking about this revolver's advantages, yes.
I wonder how many other revolver types there are that can use a suppressor?
The answer may very well be zero.
Though we wouldn't know about destroyed prototypes or really unsuccessful ventures into silenced revolvers.
+Ross Collicutt The Nagant revolver was actually used in combat, in a few cases, with a silencer.
toomanyaccounts The sound of the firing pin? Sounds like the American "Hush Puppy", although it wasn't a revolver, it was still a handgun.
I wonder if Ian will show us a PM-63 Rak SMG
Would not be surprised if one of the Russian versions is riding around in a T70 series tank in Syria right now.
Made a gazillion of them and many may still be in use. Sounds like just about every major weapon from Russia, ha.
+Jesse Sisolack
I think, you may have a point.
+Jesse Sisolack Russian arms production has mostly tended to follow the same cycle:
1.) "Oh shit, XYZ are the Next Big Thing in weapons, we don't have enough XYZ to equip our massive army, we need more, and we need them yesterday."
2.) "Our production facilities for XYZ aren't sufficient to produce that many so quickly. We need bigger factories."
3.) "The immediate need has passed but we've got those massively oversized factories now mass-producing XYZ."
4.) "Well, might as well sell 'em off somewhere. Somebody's going to find a use for them..."
+GaldirEonai Ha, sounds about right. Seems to have worked out well for them as they are one of the biggest arms dealers by country around.
I just recently found a picture of sovet soldiers in Afghanistan equipped with type 3 milled ak47 and aks47. Keep in mind that at the time the ak74 should have replaced the akm which should have replaced the type 3 milled ak
@@simone.Lmo.639-2 47 haven't been completely phased out by then and it was used expecially by specnaz and some reconaisance units, due to balistic characteristics of 7.62x39 and its ability to shoot heavier, sub-sonic round. When replaced by AK-74, old AK's haven't been scraped, but went into storage. There's no reason why one of the operators woulnd't use old milled receiver AK, dug out by quatrermaster somewhere from the botom shelf, when issuing this type of weapon was necessary, just because this specyfic AK was available at the moment.
"Somewhere like approximately a gazillion of them" Ian, 2016.
That finish is fantastic.
I enjoy the quirkiness of the Russian Nagant i picked up. It certainly is an interesting way to build a pistol. I couldn't hit a barn with it, however, if I were locked inside. I checked barrel alignment and the barrel itself is spotless. I've tried a couple diferent ammunition sources. Are these typically inaccurate handguns?
Great to see a true forgotten forgotten weapon! I had no idea they produced these at Radom! Will we see a video on a Polish Mosin Nagant anytime soon?
That is, a Polish 91/30 or M-1891?
+Blackpowder Burner It's full name is the kbk wz. 91/98/27, I believe.
I've seen TFBTVs video/review of their Nagant revolver and they had lots of malfunctions... Do you think that the higher quality of production would make the Polish version more reliable or is it just a flawed design?
I really like your videos Ian because I am a huge history fan and since I'm from Germany I will never have a chance to even see mod to those guns with my own eyes so your content is a cool inside to firearms also love inrange tv
They probably made a bajillion of them because they could be relied upon, the Polish quality probably helped that along as opposed to Russian "if it fires get it out the door" policy.
+Schütze Königstiger hey you're commenting a lot on Sherman's videos
+heinzxzxzxzxzx yep that's me
Has the moving cylinder gas seal ever been used on a Revolving Rifle?
It seems like this would fix the main problem with Revolving Rifles.
Mexican Pieper revolver based on the Nagant. The FW website has it, but not the YT channel.
Knights armament made a silenced revolving rifle with a gas seal. Very quiet, effectively semiauto, and no ejected cases to worry about.
It's not a mexican gun, it's a Belgian Pieper M1893. Although it was used by Mexico!
'the Russians made roughly......a Gazillion of them' can I cite this?
I've seen in person a Polish Mosin converted to 8mm Mauser.
Hi Ian, would would you do a video on the Polish M44 by any chance?
Nagants are still in service with russians, in some limited police use: cash-in-transit guards, marshall deputies, bailiffs, postal services, etc.
Were any of the Ng30 revolver ever marked with the Polish Eagle?
+Robert Benson I don't think so, because they were not military arms (but I could be mistaken).
Ian, Be nice to see some WWII Italian firearms. By all accounts the Handguns and SMG's where highly prized by British troops.
Seems like the gas seal was wasted on such an anemic cartridge. Would it be practical to build a revolver in something like .327 or .357 (except with extended cases) using the forward-camming cylinder, or is the cam system fundamentally too weak to operate reliably with high pressure loadings?
+elektro3000 I'd imagine if it was viewed as useful, modern metallurgy and the like would make it quite feasible.
Such an unique revolver. Since there is no ban on Poland, can't we import whatever is leftover, along with all those special ammo to the States? I am sure the gun collectors here will gobble them up in no time.
I want to see the knife listed in the capture papers!
Ian, could you take a note please, when the opportunity arises, to make a video on the predecessor of this Nagant, the 44 cal. top-break revolver?
Cool! Thanks, I am enjoying this.
That factory has a name: Łucznik, pronounce: Wootchnic or Woochnic. Would be nice to hear You say it in an another polish gun video :) have a nice Day.
+Endryo7 Well it is more complicated. First it was Fabryka Broni Radom(Arms/Weapons Factory Radom), then after war comunist governement decided to rebuilt this factory and it was called Zakłady Metalowe im. ren. "Waltera" (Gen. "Walter" Metal Works - Walter was call signt of Karol Swierczewski he fought on communist side in Polish-Soviet War in 1920, also in Spanish civil war, then he led Polish 2nd army on Berlin. He was Moscow puppet who worked for NKVD...), later they changed name to Zakłady Metalowe Łucznik (Bowman Metal Works) and in 2000 they defaulted on ruins new Fabryka Broni Łucznik - Radom was created. Name Łucznik was used for bikes produced in 30ties by FB, then for typewriters and sweing machines produced there.
+Endryo7 Since when L is W? Łucznik is pronounced Loochnik. Or one can just call it Archer.
+nielubieplackow184 yup,most european countries/peoples had their own alphabets to go with their languages.the german double s and the polish w are vestiges of those language.
+Silvia Smith
Łucznik = bowman
+Silvia Smith Ł is not L
Polish L is read like English L in Loud
Polish Ł is read like English W in Whisky
Polish W is read like English V in Victor
Polish is one of the hardest languages to learn so we Poles know You will butcher our language and its kinda cute when You break Your tongues on it :)
my Russian made one must have sat in a crate is whole life. the barrel is still shiny as a mirror and the finish looks like it just came off the line. guess I lucked out and got a perfect example of one. it's a great conversation piece at my local range.
+toomanyaccounts 1948
"... and the Russians made somewhere like approximately a gazillion of them"
Damnit Ian, your videos are really nice, but when you're being so technical and stuff... that's when you *nail* it
Is it single or double action? I can't find this info anywhere.
Double action. Hence the reason Ian said the trigger pull is horrible. In single action the Nagant revolvers trigger is not bad for the time period.
Ian where can you buy a Russian Nagant pistol for $99??? If you can find one they are over $250 now. Thanks for your videos I look forward to more shooting videos.
I don't want to sound annoying, but shouldn't these items be handled with gloves to avoid further corrosion?
Gorgeous little gun, that one. Even with the wear that comes naturally with use and age, it still looks really nice.
Unrelated, Ian: have you ever bid on a gun you made a video on? If yes, did you win it?
+Orlando Medeiros Yes, I have bid on a couple guns I did videos about, and I did win one of the too. Usually I am selfish, and don't do videos on stuff I am planning to try to buy myself. :)
+Forgotten Weapons -- Well I hope you do the videos on them after you've bought them. Selfish can only be forgiven to a certain extent...
+Forgotten Weapons
Yeah, but you can make the video and not publish it until after the auction.
+phileas007 -- Excellent point, even I didn't think of that, and I think of everything!
+Thomas Mobley
Cool, can you think about which guns should be next?
Has that gun ever been silenced-suppersed?
There ARE revolvers with integral siliencers, though.
Yes, you can supresor the Ng30 but it require the gunsmithing tools to fit the supresor. Due to their use as police/security guard history it wasnt done on mass but they were at least few isntances of polish inter-war mobster doing that and it was also done in more modern history for movie's ( They used real nagants as prop guns with blanks).
More polish wepons. Im from poulish and I happy to see we wepons
I realize there's not much point, but I really want someone to make a modernized version of the Nagant
+TheGoldenCaulk
If you don't mind spending the 5 mil. for development and setting up production. No problem man, I'll do it.....
They exist in Russia but lol import ban. I want one of the .22LR carbines.
Cannot be used in space, though.
I'm like 90% sure that I heard about nagant revolvers still being used by rural police departments
In russia propably, the polish police switched to weapons better than than... also better than the weapons issued to the military
Hi Ian, i love your videos more than my life, but why firearms you observe are more and more common and usual? Somedays you've had really cool guns like Roper shotgun or Chinese mystery pistols, or some early LMG's. They had both great history and interesting insides. What happened to cool firearms? :c
+Peter Chairing whiner
mtwtf4207 i'm getting older
lol
+Peter Chairing This series of videos is from one of Rock Island's "regional" auctions, which has lower-value items than their "premiere" auctions. Immediately following this series will be one form James D. Julia, which is loaded with really high-end rare items (I'm filming there this week).
Forgotten Weapons thanks for the reply.
I have been in some ex-soviet countries and Yes they are Still being issued and used, mostly by Postal carers in the back country.
They most likely use the russian M1895. The polish NG30 is rarer but higher quality
It would be fun to see a video about the German 88mm AT gun... hint hint ;-)
did u know u could suppress
gazillion? Stop with the technical language....lol
love these videos
very interesting
Lot of polish guns. Didn't know Poland had such a prolific arms industry.
+Nukle0n Well, if your neighbours are the Third Reich in the west and the Soviet Union in the East...
+FPS Poland Germany was actually still a rather peaceful republic in the 1920's. Lots of revolutionaries and all, but the foreign policies were... peaceful. The term 'Third Reich' is really only used to indicate the completely remodeled nation Adolf Hitler created as the... Well... Third big German empire - the first and second being the Holy Roman Empire and the German Empire 1871-1918 respectively.
What I am saying is that their western neighbours were technically the last iteration of the Second Reich.
Aramiro Which still was an enemy of the Treaty of Versailles, that officialy created Poland on the international arena.
FPS Poland However, saying that the Weimar Republic would have acted against Poland or not is theorycrafting by this point.
Recognizing Poland's need for defense against both those countries is correct. In that sense, your statement is sane.
Saying (with the knowledge we have now) that they had to bolster their defenses against the Weimar Republic specifically is not so sane.
The Polish revolver, there has to be a good Polish joke with that set up.
There's actually a Yiddish antifascist song from the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising called "Zog Nit Keynmol" or "Never Say This Is The End" that contains the line "Dos lid gezugen mit naganes in di hent!"
Almost every translation I've seen online translates this as "this song was sung with pistols in our hands" but i don't think this is quite accurate considering the yiddish word for Pistol is "Piztole" not "Naganes". My theory is the line actually references the Nagant revolver specifically and the use of "pistols" in translations is just to simplify things for people who don't know anything about guns.
Just a cool bit of history i wanted to mention.
XD
From what I have seen, The Polish Mosins likewise seemed to be built a little bit nicer than the Russian models-
Same for the AK and AKM
I've shot a Russian Nagant revolver. Just in shooting, I was not impressed. I see no reason to expect much more from the Polish model.
Cool video.:D Very interesting.:D
But would you put a suppressor on it? (Yes i'm trying to be funny)
Nice Polish mister
I had a chance to buy a Nagant... aaaaaaaaand I didn't..... now I hate myself
Russian railway security use them.
ok now wz 35 VIS :v or "UR"
+dArtagnan Zax There is a video on VIS, previous one prior to this one.
sorry im sleep :v
+dArtagnan Zax How about the wz.28? I filmed that video yesterday... :)
+Forgotten Weapons Is it possible to make a video of wz. 35 anti-tank rifle? Could you get your hands on one? I guess it will be first good depiction of that design, same thing You did with Pancor!
+egdarious When I find one, I will definitely do video on it.
Well, I guess as long as you don´t need more than 6 shots at a time, I guess it is ok...
+Skyliner04s Seven, actually.
Forgotten Weapons
My bad!^^
+Skyliner04s I'm not so sure that anyone is relying on 81 year old pistols in situations where the number of bullets a gun holds actually matters..
*****
Yes, but the gun wasn´t always 81 years old. I wouldn´t want to defend myself with this against someone with a Luger for example..
I trained on that sht, unfortunately on the russian version. A lot of keyholing on 10m range. Ain't worth sht if put next to e. g. Colt Walker, Peacemaker or S&W model 28.
Nice gun. Those screws though... Awful.
Some comments about how unreliable the design is... I highly doubt the gun would've seen use for such a long time if the design was inherently unreliable.
Unreliable rather in form of quality of manufactured not as the design.
I owned a 30's dated Tula Nagant and aside from it not shooting point of aim, it was an awesome little revolver for $90.
Traded it and a Walther P1 on a correct grade Garand, so I can't really complain it's gone
not unreliable just slow and maybe mismatched so p.o.i may differ from p.o.a
Watch TFB's video on the Nagant revolver, it misfires like 4 out of 7 shots.
i want i want.then i could be a cool kid too.
'99-dollar Russian Nagants"... Check the current prices. You'll be amused
they are actually still in use in some places in Ukraine, they use a lot of outdated weapons
Русский наган более элегантен
Kaneshna
there are no vowels in Polish it's pronounced Raaa dom
What! Is an "a" not a vowel?
....most polish firearms shot backwards