Is Ant-Man and The Wasp Quantumania the best or worst Ant-Man film? (SPOILERS) | Marvel
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2023
- Ant-Man and the Wasp has hit the theaters and what a major conversation starter it is! Scott Lang and Kang battle it out in the Quantum realm. Is this movie the best or worst Ant-man or something in between. has the MCU got off to a good start for Phase 5 or does it need to turn around? Kristian Harloff, Winston Marsll and coy Jandreau discuss on this special episode of The Big Thing!
#mcu #marvel #antmanandthewaspquantumania
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Time doesn’t matter in the quantum realm we did not see kang at nearly his power level. It is exactly why he was sent there.
The idea of this Kang not having access to time travel and being weakened by not having his technology at full power was far more evident to me than it seems to be for you guys? This Kang being the almighty of them all really is something we as fans came to expect I think. The minute they set up this Kang being trapped with out his time travel powers the power scaling did not bother me. For all Kangs intimidation at the end of the day he’s still just a man with access to technology.
Yea I really don't understand how this is overlooked. He was obviously meant to be a nerfed Kang that the Ant-Man crew had to take out and introduce us to him and some of his future potential. It would also be cool if the Kang stuck in the core ends up coming back later after.
@@kazinstrife2048 Exactly! I actually think him getting sent through the time core wasn’t his death but maybe leading to him getting dispersed through out time which will make him MORE powerful. If Loki season 2 wasn’t a thing I expected to see this Kang wipe out all of the Kangs in the Council at the end. I imagine them saving that for later?
@@langleymneely Oh that's a great idea. I was actually thinking he was going to work with his alternate versions in the core, similar to what Scott does
RUclipsrs/critics are trying to undermine this movie at all costs…why? I dont know. Theyve built up a version of this movie in their heads and when the actual movie comes out, and its different, they freak out.
This movie sets up Kangs revenge in future movies Very Well. I look forward to watching whats next!
@@MinusGreen1 I dont know about undermining anything but I do think many people don’t pick up on or infer things the film is telling the audience through storytelling, especially visually sometimes. I give the MCU a lot of credit for not always holding the audiences hand on some things. Granted its all subjective though.
Loved Quantumania. Looking forward to see if this version of Kang will be face the Avengers down the road or a different version.
Saw Antman last night and I have to say I really enjoyed it. I could have done without Modok and the Freedom Fighters, but I thought the story was solid. Jonathan Majors was definitely the standout star and I look forward to seeing him shine even more in Kang Dynasty
I completely agree with you
Solid? Scott Lang starts as a succesful/famous hero, and he ends up as a successful/famous hero... Theres no arc at all, no lesson learned, no change... Cmon, this is a movie, its not supposed to be a filler episode.
@@LouieR.4682 💗
@@zegsi364 how much character development do you want when their stuck in the quantum realm?
@@foamytomato9342 Ur kidding right? U got so used to trash writing that u think its normal for a character to not have an arc in a movie?
Each movie has a main character with an arc that lasts the whole movie. Thats the point of the story. U cant have a story where the MC doesnt change at all, thats a failure of a story. Its a failure for a writer. He wants to spend more time with his daughter at the beginning, was that resolved? No, nothing changed besides that theres a birthday at the end. Wat exactly changed? Nothing... Each potential problem that couldve made a great ending to Scott's arc was resolved in a second. Scott saves Cassie to fight Kang, he might die... Nope, saved by Wasp... Wasp and Scott stuck in the quantum realm now? Nope, portal created by a teenager very easily cuz shes as smart as Tony Stark, cuz thats believable. Wake up... Ur standards are very low, ur accepting below mediocrity.
MODOKs turn works for me because his brain is scrambled by being pushed into the Quantum Realm all deformed and messed up. I interpret him going back and forth with his loyalty being tied to how easily swayed and distracted he can be which is a traditional MODOK trait.
I really really enjoyed the movie I watched it twice . It’s a funny ,hilarious ,action packed, and felt like a ant man movie every actor had a good amount of time. Modok was awesome.
Kang and Janet were my favorite segment in the film, I would've loved to see more of that.
I think without the core he didn't have the control over time
For the Kate Bishop thing I would say it isn't just that she trained but she specifically trained to become a super hero. It wasn't like she just took some fencing and archery classes. She took classes and trained on everything from martial arts to survival training (and parkour) just to make her self the next Hawkeye. I had a bunch of problems with the show but that wasn't even close to one of them. Enjoy the commentary and love the show Kristian.
It didnt bother u that Kate runs like a penguin? lol... Cmon bruh...
I agree, and yet, she still made mistakes, and got hurt. That’s what I like about her.
I did love Kangs little smirk when he sees all the ants coming
And the sinister giggle type snickering he does.
I think Kang was nerfed in this movie due to being trapped in the Quantum Realm and being disconnected from his chair. Time works in different ways down, like they’ve said in previous films, so that’s why he wasn’t able to be the master of time he is in the comics and be at full strength. We will see this Kang again because there’s no way being sucked into the machine killed him. I think he has been transported outside of the multiverse into the Beyond Realm where he will come across The Beyonder and try to steal its powers. The end of the movie said Kang will return, which I think refers to this specific version rather than the other variants, and he’ll show up at the end of Avengers: Kang Dynasty. He’ll come in as Kang The Beyonder, wipe out all of his variants that the Avengers are fighting, and create his Battleworld leading directly into Secret Wars
Right, he didn't have access to the full power of his future technology
Right. The quantum realm is a universe outside of time and space. So why would he be able to use his time powers down there?
Thanks for sharing that Jamie Costa short. That was hilarious!
I love how Coy is the Deadpool or the America Chavez of this space. 😄 He's on with you, he's on with Reel Rejects, he's on with New Rockstars, etc etc.
Awesome show today guys! Love it whenever you talk movies, Marvel, DC, or anything!
Like I have said in previous comments, I am a little curious to see where Marvel is going from here. I am wondering if they are listening to the complaints that some individuals are having about their recent filmography and adjusting their films. On the one hand, I do think it could be bad if they were completely reactionary like DC was early on. At the same time, something does need to change moving forward. Also, I just noticed that The Marvels moved from July to November. Do you think that is because it is trying to get out of a super crowded summer, or do you think it means something else in regards to the film?
It seems like a lot of the criticism of this movie is the 3rd act. I feel like everyone is expecting too much from Kang right off the bat. You have to remember this is just his introduction into the MCU and that Marvel always has a plan. It might not make a whole lot of sense right now, but I think we should be patient and see what happens down the road. Kang can't be the borderline invincible villain right away. How would that even work and how do you expect Scott to be a match for him when he doesn't have superpowers himself? And why should Scott have to die? That's completely unnecessary, not to mention depressing. Also, I don't understand the problem with the rebellion. What were those people supposed to do, just keep letting Kang and his army oppress them? I still enjoyed the conversation and I'm glad you guys liked the movie overall, but I have to say I think you're grasping at straws a little bit.
I really liked this movie. It was just a cool sci fi action movie to me. I don’t expect to much from an Ant Man movie.
I assume Scott's suit is made to deal with energy from the quantum realm. And that is where Kang is drawing from. I thought this movie was fantastic.
Yeah like during the fight when Cassie first use suit and get's saved by Dad shes like it's okay I got a suit, he's like year I noticed. Kinda of set it up there the suit can take energy blast.
My pushback on Janet being trapped in the realm again at the end is that to me, it would have felt like it undermined the first two movies. Hope's anger towards her father, Hank's guilt, and the entire second movie is because she's trapped in there. So for her to be trapped at the end of this again would have really annoyed me personally.
I'm bummed this movie isn't hitting for a lot of people. I thought it was great and feel like the expectation of Kang coming in and being a giant threat off the bat is something fans expected, but I think the movie did a good job if introducing him and I feel the threat coming.
I would also add it would make Hope look very dumb if she couldn’t figure out how to get her parents out.
@@lexis4490 she probably could in a another movie had it happened, but I don't think there's going to be a 4th Ant-Man
Time doesn’t exist in the Quantum realm. Kang can’t use time there which is why he was exiled there by the others. The criticisms you guys made were for the most part ok but that one is explicitly explained.
Kang doesn’t have his time powers until he gets his core. How did you all miss that.
I couldn't agree more with all of your points, I always leave the theater loving a movie, (minus Thor 4) and being able to digest it more with great reviews and commentary that you guys always bring, 💯
Just seen the movie Ant-man and the Wasp and I was overall very happy and enjoyed the movie from beginning all the way to the 2nd End credit. This movie was really about the Ants and the power of mind over size and maybe family and science. Still I will have to see the movie again to see what else I missed and who is Kang.
Commenting to support the video, watching on Spotify to get those numbers up 👍.
Did I watch a different movie it’s a solid 8/10 and the wasp gets to shine as much as Antman!
Kang doesn't have powers, His suit just has such advanced technology that it looks like magic to us. That's why when his suit was broken at the end Ant Man was able to fistfight him.
I really liked AntMan Quantamania! Positives first - loved the relationship between Scott & his daughter and loved Michelle Pfeifer’s character! Kang was also great and engaging! I love Science fiction so I loved this crazy world! Negatives - big one was Hank Pim didn’t seem to have enough of a character arc for me. Liked Act 1 & 2 of the story but the end seemed to be rushed and the Ant’s beating Kang seemed to easy! But overall I liked it and would watch it again! I can see why some people would not like this as much because the story is out there in the science fiction area! I can say my husband is not a movie buff and just goes to be with me! But he did enjoy the movie, he just had a fun time and didn’t care about how it fits or what has happened. Thanks guys for all the content!
The audio setup looks simple, what equipment does he use if anyone knows?
Loved this discussion
I LOVE Darren as Modok. Loved his sense of humor.
Also, not sure who segways better into the sponsors...you or Korey 😄
Why do ppl keep saying he got taking out by ants when he didn’t? Kang was ultimately defeated by Antman and wasp
Yes! Thank you! Someone finally said it! The ants had him in a bind for a bit but he escaped them (not to mention it wasn’t a few giant ants, it was thousands and thousands). And even then, it was Ant Man and the Wasp who defeated him, but only because they used his own device against him, the core. If they didn’t have that to blow up. he would have wasted them.
I think the ant man and wasp was basically in reference to Hank n Janet. She calls him ant man in the movie. And u see her wear her wasp outfit vs Kang
Kristian how do you feel about Glen Powell for the flash
I was saying before phase 4 started that I wanted Doom to start appearing in the movies the way Kristian was saying he wanted Kang to appear. I wanted them to cut to a scene in Wakanda forever of Shuri talking to someone walking through one of the labs and as they come into the scene you see a time platform finishing it's teleportation. You hear Hank talking about some missing tech in their labs. Someone in the Marvels talking about how there was a massive spike in Cosmic Rays in a sector and then it quickly seemed to get sucked out of space. And then later on it is revealed that Doom has been in the background of every movie gathering power getting ready to reveal himself as the big bad threat of this Saga.
Dan mural said he would have loved it if when Kang was beating up Scott, if he would have had the line “I could do this all day” it would have been way more poetic than when Peggy said it in DS MOM, and I cant stop thinking about it
_I could to this all day_
Me… [cringe]
Rick and Morty writers get your own ideas please.
No thank you.
Enjoyed the movie, cannot for the life of me get where all the negativity is coming from. Thought it was bizarre Coy, Greg etc mentioning the post credit was cringe and unearned seeing it was taken directly from the comic itself!
Sooiler. Think Exiled Kang gets sent to the future where he rebuilds his ship and powersource and suit and comes back truely Thanos level taking all the other powerful Kangs out!
What if in the post credit scene they’re talking about he who remains instead of the Kang we just saw? Would that save it a bit?
The possibility of Marvel shrinking the runtimes on the phase 5 films does concern me. Nia Dacosta stated that she was only given a 2-hour runtime for The Marvels. And given that she'll have to discuss the family dynamic between Monica and Carol, plus the power-switching plot, plus whatever she was mandated to set up for future installments leaves me a little worried that we won't have enough properly established.
Shorter runtime is the best way to do. People are tired of "representation" in Marvel
I believe though that was a Chapel mandate.
Everybody was crying about the run times of phase 4 and the ending coming down to a cgi mess, both of which Ant-Man corrected and people still cry.
I have no idea how i remember this, but Kristian talking about the Avengers trailer spoiling the movie made me think of that one Movie Fights episode where he defended the same thing, that's a nice memory... #NightFalls
A good way to make space for all the things you talked about is changing the place and grouping of the people in the movie. Have Scott and Cassie directly end up in Kang's and Modok's hand, giving more time for the Scott-Cassie-Kang dynamic. Have Hope and Janet end up with the rebels, cause the rebels would have more connection with Janet and give more to Hope to do by maybe getting her to rally everyone. And have Hank, as you all suggested, show up with the ants with some sets.
Maybe expanding the heist element and the personal 'time lost with Cassie' element of recovering the multiverse core storyline and then that clashing with the objectives of Janet and Hope who with the rebels are trying to get into the citadel to get out of the quantum realm. That probably would make a better 3rd act, with Scott realizing what the multiverse core really is and he is unveiling.
I liked the movie still... but it could be so much better.
That’s a great idea.
Does the Avenger line from Modok not work? Didn’t Darren get beaten by Scott before civil war when Scott met the other avengers? How does Darren know he is an avenger?
I think what might have solved the no X-Con guys and caring about the Rebels in the Quantum Realm: cast the Rebels with all the side characters from the previous films, Luis and X-Con guys, Cassies mom & step dad, the Baskin Robbins guy, etc. By using familiar faces and actually commenting on the similarities it would instantly make us care about the Rebels fight and when they got killed.
I love all the small changes you guys suggested
Jeremy Jahns made some good points as well about Ant-Man and the Wasp QuantMania as well, you guys definitely need to get him on the show at some point in time.
Here's my pitch. Cory Stoll is in the movie as actual Darren Cross (human being). He works for Kang kinda because he has too. Puts on a façade when the Langs get to the quantum realm. At some point him and Michael Douglas both make up since he was his mentor before. He still sacrifices himself at the end to get them home but it's not played for a joke, a genuine moment of heart. Then you could have Michael Pena as Modok but its not our Luis it's a variant.
Not sure if it's because I haven't read comics related to Kang but I def found him intimidating.
I do get some of the criticism of chaotic 3rd act but I still really enjoyed this movie and look forward to seeing Majors different Kangs in the upcoming projects
One thing I'll say is that I was ok with the amount of the Wasp in this movie. I feel like she had the same amount of things to do as Cassie. She just wasn't the focus, and I was totally fine with that. Also, Coy, I feel like Kang aging Cassie is more torture to her than Scott since he'd literally be taking years off of her life. Which is almost the same as killing her. Threatening the time loop is definitely a way better torture tactic
kristian trying to point out positive stuff and winston and coy start ragingimmediatly after was fuckin hilarious
It was an interesting discussion. To me, a lot of stuff you guys pointed out about Ant-Man Quantumania are the problems I've been having with the MCU(movies and tv shows) for many years now so I guess it's no longer shocking for me personally :
- The overreliance on the same tired humor, regardless of the situation (there's no room for real drama anymore). Everyone is snarky and sarcastic. Everyone's a Tony Stark basically.
- Every teenager now is now suddenly a genius. Where Tony had to be creative and use his brains to get out of the cave in IM1, we have now Cassie and Iron Heart who can create impossible stuff in their garage without breaking a sweat and we have to believe that without asking any questions.
- Every single project has the world/universe at stakes now and needs to basically also promote the next product in line, regardless of the quality or if it makes sense. I think the movies were way better when they were smaller in scale (because they felt more personal) and you could watch any movie without having the obligation to watch the previous ones to understand what's going on.
- Every project needs to have the big CGI fight at the end, even if doesn't need to. For example I liked the first two acts of Shang-Chi but when the 3rd became a big CGI fest (bad CGI also like Black Panther 1) and wasn't focused on martial arts and just a personal fight between Shang-Chi and Wenwu anymore...I almost fell asleep on my couch(no joke) because I was so bored.
I could go on with other few points, but that's the meat of it. I know people will disagree(which is fine of course) but I don't expect anything anymore really from the MCU, except from the same formulaic McDonalds recipe since they've been on automatic piloting for long while now. Oddly enough, regardless of all my criticisms, I cross my fingers that phase 5 is better but I just don't think it will change soon. The only thing that gives me hope is the fact that they will scale down the number of projects and they postponed others. We'll see!
Hear me out… Ant-Man and the now Captain America should be the main leads of the MCU after Iron Man and the previous Captain America. It just makes sense.
Did you forget about Spiderman?
@@Sticks017 Spider-Man won't ever be risked to be a lead of the MCU because of the Sony rights. What I'm talking about is how Ant-Man is a technology hero like Iron Man was and there is a new Captain America. There's the two new leads!
@@brucecrawford17 well one of the best leakers, My Time to Shine Hello said yesterday that Spiderman is the lead of Kang Dynasty
@@Sticks017 Not according to IMDB. haha
Just curious but what are y’all’s thoughts on modoks Krispy Kreme glazed butt taking center stage during center stage.. something you can’t I see haha
Enjoyed it Kristian, standout sequence with all the versions of Scott working together like ants. It’s nowhere near as bad as a lot of people are making out. Certainly better than Black Panther and MoM imo.
Like I said on Kristian's solo spoiler review:
I really liked the movie, there were just two things that I would've done different.
1: I would've put the opening scene of Janet meeting Kang later in the movie with the other flashback scene and just open on Scott walking down the street.
2: The epilog scene got way too dower for my taste, and it didn't really fit with the "Home sounds nice" line Scott says after the defeat of Kang. So I would change this to them celebrating Cassie's "birthday" at their home instead of a restaurant, and cut the lead-up with Scott's thoughts. The mid- and post-credits scenes set up a return for Kang well enough, we don't need Scott to spell it out for us, so let him have his happy ending, and then remember Kang's words when he shows back up.
Other than that:
I enjoyed the jokes. M.O.D.O.K. worked for me, I've already accepted that not everything from the comics works in a movie, so changes are bound to be made, they've been doing that since the first movie. The visuals were stunning, I watched it in 3D, and it just looked gorgeous. And for people complaining that Hope didn't do much in this movie, remember that Hank and Janet are the original Ant-Man and Wasp, and they have tons to do, so the title still fits really well. The POV character (Scott in this movie) isn't always the title character. I also think that the trailer was intentionally misleading when it comes to 'giving more time with a daughter', Marvel is known to do this. Because even if this isn't brought up when it comes to Scott and Cassie, it is brought up when it comes to Janet and Hope. And Janet has lost even more time with Hope than Scott has lost with Cassie. And I liked that misdirect, Janet earned that longing to be with her daughter, she was gone for 30 years. And giving that up because of who Kang was, was a really powerful moment i.m.o.
So overall 8/10 for me.
I very much agree with Kristian. I Get that it is not a perfect movie,it has issues and things that could have been better. But for me the visualis Are so great,the jokes landed, and I enjoyed the story. Yes Kang could have been scarier but I was scared by him.
Btw. Have you heard the book in the movie is coming out? This fall. Defently reading that.
I think it made more sense to call it Ant-Man: Quantumania but I got a feeling like they were afraid people would think it sexist to drop the female character name off the title. Though just the Ant-Man moniker is much more accurate for this movie.
The Council of Kangs scene was them trying to recreate a page in the comics on screen but it didn't work in film the way it does on the page. The page they were trying to recreate all the Kangs are amped up and yelling and the only way that works (at least in the context of what we were given) was for them to just all be yelling and screaming for no reason. They probably should have had someone do something in the center of the arena to incite everyone to go nuts, like say "Now is the time to unite the timelines" orsomething.
Kang to me was scary AF what in this movie. And a completely nerfed Kang at that, with only a tiny fraction of his power. He got his suit back, nothing else. And with it he subjugated an entire realm.
And his defeat was not easy. He wasn’t just beaten by ants. This highly nerfed Kang, with access to only a fraction of his power needed the combined forces, of get this:
1. And entire rebellion army
2. Antman
3. Wasp
4. Stature
5. The army of a Class II ( I interpret as Karadashev Type II) civilization.
6. PLUS the betrayal of MODOK
All that and his hubris and he barely lost. THAT is formidable.
Calling him the weakest would make zero sense. Why would the council exile their weakest? They had to have seen him as a threat and have been unwilling or ,more likely, unable to kill him to have had to exile him.
Exactly. His point about this made no sense
Coy's evaluation of this film is some of the best reviewing I've heard. It was very constructive feedback and superlative. Great analysis!
"I have holes!" I loved that weird dude. I like the movie overall. Good sci-fi elements. I like the relationship between Scott and Cassie. Jonathan Majors was great. I will say this - I saw it for $5 Tuesdays at my local theatre. I'm glad I didn't have to pay $20. I can understand the mixed reviews.
Did Winston spoil Creed 3 at ~31:45?
I agree with Coy's thoughts on Kang, but to me that's how it played out. To me that's just 1 Kang, and when he was de-powered he easily whooped Ant-Man and would have killed him if not for the portal. He was barely beaten, and then with the post credit scene you get the Council of Kangs and realize that he wasn't the top Kang. So moving forward I expect that each Kang we get will be more powerful. I would have liked someone to have died to add some gravity to the encounter.
Biggest issue with Phase 4 has been the forced comedy for me. Because the first 3 phases had a great blend of action and comedy in movies like Antman, GoTG, Thor 3 and some of their other movies it appears they want all their movies to have comedy even when it doesn’t call for it.
One or 2 jokes is fine but when every other scene has a joke it feels wrong. Antman 3 would’ve been sooooo much better if ALL the jokes were removed as opposed to every scene being a joke like it was. I would’ve surprised everyone by taking an ultra serious tone with this movie despite having the character Antman and actor Paul Rudd.
I feel like Phase 5 will be asking a lot (if not too much) out of Jonathan Majors. I can only imagine have taxing it will be on him if the writing continues to undermine his character(s).
So I don’t think theres a Young Avengers film but a D+ miniseries. Most of them started there and it’s a better testing ground than throwing them into a giant feature. Thunderbolts already seems to involve dealing with an unprecedented existential (multiversal?) threat to the governments power under President Thunderbolt Ross, I don’t see the Young Avengers in that. Just because they are setting up a new generation of heroes doesn’t mean they are ready to displace the OG Avengers immediately like some people think, especially the ones that are still left and game to continue working with Marvel.
Loved the film. Only seen it once. Don't have near the issues y'all do as time works differently in the quantum realm & he doesn't have the component, which seems to be the hard control of time. His suit only does so much without the mechanism. In my rewatch, I'll keep an eye for the one thing I agree on: he stays the same age without the component while Janet aged...so that does seem to not connect properly. The Darren issues seem odd considering the Pym particles drive him crazy & being in the quantum realm with his body transforming could've exacerbated his mania, thus being the emotional wreck he was through the film.
After seeing the movie twice I do agree with most of the criticisms of the movie. For me I really enjoyed the movie which is not without it problems the Freedom Fighters were not being developed being the biggest one and I also agree that I wish their would have more consequences in this movie to show the threat of Kang. I am looking forward to seeing more of Jonathan Majors as Kang and seeing him build up more to be another formidable villain for the Avengers to face.
Here's my thing with Kang losing. 1. He was so cocky & thought that no one stood a chance against him 2. Yes, he had his suit but he wasn't at full power. I don't think he had time powers without the time chair. I could be wrong, just how I saw it.
I really liked the movie. The whole thing was fun for me. Now, maybe tying some of the time elements into the story more would have made it better, but what we got was the laugh I needed at the time. So I'm good with that.
The jokes didn't land for me. Modok didn't work for me. And I agree that Kang losing to Antman and the Wasp is not great for setting him up as a threat. Now if Scott had to sacrifice himself. I feel like that would have worked for me. Or at least leave them trapped in the Q realm.
Or maybe...he didn't die
@@tendaiamos I hope he didn't. But he still lost without it costing much. At least as it's currently presented.
Why isn't hank pym and Janet able to wear the suits too I woulda loved to see 2 wasps and 2 antmen on screen that woulda been epic. We need more classic antman scene with hank as antman too even if they are flash backs
I honestly think Kang is a big deal, but i still think Feige wants to throw Dr. Doom in to pair with Kang before secret Wars! Bc I feel like Kang being involved this early was not like Thanos. like u mentioned they built 3 phases to Thanos into two movies but here we get main version of Kang in one movie and it just feels like Doom and Kang together would Make a proper threat level for these next avengers movies
It’s objectively at least the second best antman and I subjectively think it’s the best. Had the most laughs, craziest visuals, most MCU connection, most antfam.
hey Kristian is it just me or was Johnathan mayors doing a forest whitiker in rogue one on the post credit scene lol and the movie was fine but modak was so awful his face look so bad it just looked like someone composited his face on a green screen at the last second
The problem with the MCU is that they became afraid to kill off anyone important.
The problem is they killed off the two most important characters IronMan and Cap
Other than OG avengers and GoG\Spiderman who do really care about
Definitely not scar thunderbolts Agatha Iron heart Echo no black panther come on MCU is dead woke politics and bad writing is the culprit
Agreed, I don't want to spoiler anything in this (although we are on a spoiler video) but there was a moment in this when a firing squad could have taken a character out but they even tried to turn that into a humorous moment.
Tchalla
@@christophermarabella5683 They messed it up by giving the absolutely unlikable Shuri the keys to black panther, should have made M’Baku the new Black Panther
I actually had a better time with this movie than the 2nd Ant-Man movie.
My theory: The Avengers vanish in Kang Dynasty (idk where) and the movie before Secret Wars is Scarlet Witch and the Children’s Crusade (with Wanda and the Young Avengers)
I couldn’t tell if the kang in the film was killed or just disappeared? Like will we not see him again?
He's not dead, they've already established He's the big bad, and that he's suit was very powerful. Looks like he was sucked into a Vortex
Kristian's ad segues kill me lmao
Hahah
I enjoyed this movie, but for better or worse the movie it most makes me think of is the early 90s movie Mom and Dad Save the World. I used to watch it all the time as a kid and the goofy sci-fi in this really reminded me of it.
Great movie definitely similar in the style.
I just watched the movie yesterday and I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I do think the movie kinda suffered from the promotions leading up to it. The way it was talked up and the trailers made the stakes seem a lot higher than what I thought it was after seeing the movie.
So for both Coy and Winston, im only like 8 minutes in so this cant respond to everything, but Coy i keep hearing you talk about how weak this Kang was, and like i just dont think you are appreciating the fight, which be because i do think the writing isnt the strongest, but Kang cant use time powers, the thing that makes him the most formidable because he was exiled to a realm outside time and space, the council sent him there specifically because when you are outside time you cant have time powers. So his suit is is lacking that function similarly to how the infinity stones dont work outside their universe. As for Ant-Man surviving the Kang blast, its very clear his suit his hella fucked up Winston, like if you look at the arm panel it has a huge chunk missing from it and after that blast you can clearly see Kang wince in pain, so the suit is malfunction, one could assume diverting a percentage of the blast as feedback into the suit, therefore weaking the beam, causing Kang pain and explaining why he doesnt continue to use them further. As for being beaten by Ants, idk man, Hank felt the most Ant-Man in that moment, and again remember, its not just ants, its an army, again so thousands of ants, giant sized with tech equivalent to Kang's, hes from 3000, and they had 2000s tech to start through a 1000 year time loop or w/e, and even so he still beats both armies, the known resistance army which he absolutely destroys, and then a surprise army that takes away his technical advantage with level playing field weaponry, and he still wins, and as we said before thats with his lack of time powers, so again this one depowered Kang manages to single handledly defeat two armies, one of which negates his only advantage at the time, and then still proceeds to give the business to Scott's face and only loses because no one expects someone to jump back through a portal to mini-Hell. He has yet to experience love with Revonna, so that could be an unknown factor to him. I guess my point, is i think youre both being a little harsh on stuff but like they explain it, just supwr poorly. Ill have more after i watch more, but like Coy its like the 5th time ive seen you do the "why Kang no time" argument. And like they say so many times its outside time.
Also for unearned moments, you guys didnt touch on what i felt was the biggest unearned moment of the movie, Cassie rallying the freedom fighters. Like nothing against Kathryn Newton, and nothing agaisnt Cassie, but like who the fuck is she? She's been in the quantum realm for ostensibly a few days, even though theres not really time down there, but like in that moment, theres Cassie brand new, nobody in the quantum realm knows her, and then you have the Barbarian lady whos the legit leader of the resistance, and they have the unknown rally everyone. No, if they wanted to do that, they should have committed harder on the freedom fighter angle, committed to having the Quantum Realm be Narnia, they spend two "years" down there fighting, but when they come back its been no time at all, but have the movie take place over a long, long period to have Cassie build the rapport and clout with the resistance, or just swap it and while the barbarian lady rallies the fighters we see Cassie maybe do some fighting on her own.
Another thing you guys touched on, maybe Coy said it, but how the first two acts introduce so many good characters. And to that i say "thor talking to bruce 'but is it though' meme" they do introduce a lot of characters, but its super surface level, as another channel said, the depth of character is as shallow as a Targaryen gene pool. William Harper Jackson was wasted, like we lost the X-Con crew, we should have had them replaced with quantum people. Almost every role you could argue is really more of like an extended cameo, no one is really fleshed out besides Kang, and a little for all our mains. I honestly wish they had taken some of the budget spent on 6000 alien costumes, maybe reduced the number of species down there, and then used that extra to actually make some of the new people characters we have a stake in, but i didnt connect with a single quantum person because our interactions were like a skipping stone, one second of contact and on to the next thing, and like yeah he comes back in another scene but still, they should have been a Mantis esque character, in comics Hank had the micro prison place, and i did think Scott and Hope would be stuck down there but they could have had a crew of people we'd really learned about.
Also unrelated but people say the end of Ant-Man & the Wasp is a plot hole with Janet alerting Kang, but like A) we dont know how deep Scott went into the Quantum Realm, B) its a whole universe so theres plenty of space where Kang isnt, and C) the quantum tunnel was just opening a door to the quantum realm, hard to notice an open door, while Cassie's quantum antenna was like opening a door, and then yelling through the door while shining lights, like one is hard to notice and the other is literally purposefully attracted attention, so i dont necessarily think Kang would notice that.
There was definitely a lot of stuff that had missed potential or on the other hand felt very clearly a writers insertion instead of feeling natural.
Wouldn’t kang be unable to manipulate time in a place that is outside time/space like Loki couldn’t use the space stone in the TVA, he wouldn’t of mastered that like the TVA did until he becomes He Who Remains
Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seemed fairly obvious this Kang isn't dead. The similarities between him and He Who Remains are intriguing (same motivation and powerpoint presentation), but also the after credits literally say "Kang will return", no reason to say that if its referring to the other variants because they are literally shown in the post credits scene. I think the three (Ramu-Tut, Immortus, and Scarlet Centurion (?) saying Kang died was just establishing that they think he's dead. Just my two cents : )
You're not wrong, it was obvious to me too.
Walking out of the movie. I liked it enough. But it's one of those movies where the more you think about it. The more it kinda starts to have issues.
The big one for me is looking back on the trailer. The story that they advertised is not the story we got. I was advertised a story of Scott Lang wanting time back with his daughter that he's missed over the years. And somewhat of a strained relationship.
But that was a complete non factor. They were lines taken out of context for the purpose of misleading the audience.
I don't mind the movie. But it has a lot of issues if you think about it too hard
You guys mentioned Ant-Man didn't get disintegrated when Kang blasted him.
What if it bad something to do with the fact that Ant-Man isn't from the Quantum realm?
Yall need to watch this shit on mushrooms. I loved the whole damn thing.
I still think this version of Kang that has been broken, and what I am interested in seeing are these other variants seem to be crazier and even more dangerous. I enjoyed the movie being stand alone, but the actions of Ant-Man lead to something big.
For me the first and third acts were the strongest and the middle was where there were some iffy choices in writing and editing.
Imagine if everything set up over voice over or that pizza lunch scene was shown to us. We'd be way more connected to the characters.
Was I the only one who saw the Loki post credit and thought “OH Victor Timely persona is actually the Kang from this film, he didn’t die, he took got displaced back further in time with pieces of the core thats why in the post credit “Victor Timely” is giving a presentation of it?” Idk a possibility that my brain went to but i know its not necessarily “comic accurate”
Coy’s powerscaling complaints about Kang might be wrong. In the post credits scene one of the Kang’s never said that the one Ant-Man beat was the strongest, they just called him the “exiled one”. Which pretty much implies that he was the crazy one out of the council of Kangs. Not necessarily the strongest
I’ll say I think Marvel should scale back its reliance on CG spectacle a bit.
If the same get included some practical sets and three 60% practical effects crafted characters (I.e. facial latex or animatronics / puppetry )
Then this film would have been 20% better possibly. But that’s going from a solid 7.5 of ten from me so - for Ant Man film - this was Astonishing
We could talk about the MCU all day . But at the end of the day.The corporate bankers who was calling the shots under bob chepek .They had the last say so on how things are going to be .We must remember KF lost alot of his power under bob chepek as CEO .So we really don't know what kind of things that was going on behind the curtains at Disney MCU.
again with this? kang was NOT taken out by ants. he was distracted by the ants which allowed M.O.D.O.K to take him out who is made from the same technology as kangs suit. kang built him as an ultimate weapon and he was taken out by his own ultimate weapon.
The best way to introduce Kang in this movie would have been to let him win and get out of the quantum realm . Just like infinity war… it would have made it more impactful and him feel like a Big Bad .
Kang didn't necessarily know about the time Scott had lost with his daughter? But it was also the same thing he offered Janet, which would have been repetitive.
Darren Cross "died" before the events of Civil War & Endgame, so how would he know about Scott being an Avenger?
I think theovie has more pluses than minuses. The 3 big things i didnt like was
1 bill muray could have been scrapped unless he is some one big in future.
2 cassie didnt like her in the real world once she got in the realm it was solid i even liked her.
3 kang was awsome but kevin cant expect no one to know why scarlett is a bad guy in multiverse. But expect we know who kang is from the loki series.
My issue is that Janet could have prevented everything by just telling everybody what she experienced in the Quantum Realm.
Went in expecting to hate it but actually was pleasantly surprised how entertaining it was.
However, some of the writing choices were bizarre. Kang seemed ridiculously powerful until he fought Scott? It was so off putting.
I just realize you think Kang is dead. I thought they just shrunk him and the core even smaller.
I’m kinda with Coy that the movie could’ve been better if you don’t undermine the threat of Kang. That’s why I think I would’ve enjoyed the movie a lot more if Bill Murray’s character was the villain and he’s a former associate of Kang. This then becomes a more fun movie and the lack of stakes is a little more forgiven for me because the sagas villain doesn’t look weak
I think you guys aren’t taking in the Antman and the Wasp title the right way. I think the title was more or less about Hank and Janet being as Hank saves the day and so does Janett, but more so Janet being the Wasp of the movie. She’s ingrained into the plot. I do agree she should have been the one to come back through the portal it woulda been more of a full circle story arc for her be it if the old rumored ending stood or the one we got. But also of the 3, Hope is the official Avenger and A.) not on the run from Quantum Realm rebels & B.) Not one of the two geniuses who built the thing. So logically speaking... or we can just theorize they Rock Paper Scissored for who goes back😂🤷🏾♂️